Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Inside An Amazon Warehouse and One Worker’s Fight to Strike

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

Chris Smalls worked at an Amazon warehouse during the lockdown… until he staged a protest against his working conditions. He was fired that same day. Chris shares with Nicole how Amazon treated its workers during the pandemic, and takes us inside the fight to unionize. If an Amazon truck delivered a package to you while you were in quarantine, it’s time to listen to who was behind the wheel. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Well, it doesn't. Charge for wasting our time. I will take a check. Like an old school check. You recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin. Where would we be without Amazon through the pandemic?

I don't know a single person who didn't turn to Amazon Prime during the lockdown. I know when I was panicked about grocery stores shutting down, next day delivery felt like a godsend. But when the dust of the panic settled, I started to think about how that package got to me, or rather, who got that package to me. Who folded the cardboard? Who put the label on the box? Who drove the truck? Who were these frontline workers who helped me get what I needed when the world was telling us to stay inside? There's been a well deserved spotlight directed on all the essential workers,

from the healthcare professionals to Uber drivers to warehouse workers. Amazon workers were brought to the forefront of this conversation, because not only did they, like all frontline workers, face the risk of high exposure to the virus, but Amazon workers were also making allegations that proper care wasn't taken to keep them protected. Hearing these stories felt like weight on my shoulders because I know that I benefit from the people who work at Amazon. And if I've been complicit in this system in some way, I want to understand it so I can help change it. So I called Chris Smalls, a former Amazon employee who had been based in a warehouse

in Staten Island. Chris has gained national attention after staging a walkout and was fired days later. Since then, he's been leading efforts to unionize in New York. I'm going to play portions of our conversation for you now. Well, welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you so much. So where are you right now? Currently, I am outside of my former facility, JK, in Staten Island. So I've been outside for the last two weeks organizing workers on the ground myself. Well, let's start at the beginning. Up until this March, you had been working at an Amazon warehouse in Staten Island for five years. Yes, supervisor, assistant manager.

And before the pandemic, can you tell me a little bit about what a day in the life was like for you at work? Sure. Every day come in, I would set up my staffing board. The rest of the day, I would walk to everybody's station, engagements, do audits, make sure there's no barriers for anybody at their stations, mechanical-wise, technical-wise. And I just oversee the operation, making sure that it's a smooth operation, making sure that we hit all our numbers. And yeah, I was a part of the machine, so I definitely had to labor track a lot of, well, all the associates in my department as well.

Now, can you describe a typical day at work during the pandemic? Yeah, it was a lot different. When I came into work beginning of, I want to say March, I noticed some of my employees, an abdominal effect, began to become sick one by one, different flu-like symptoms every day, dizziness, fatigue. They finished their 10-hour shift.

A lot of them were being sent to the AmCare office within the facility, not even showing up to work at all. And I just noticed that, you know, it's just an airy feeling and very alarming. We weren't protected. I know that we didn't have any masks and we didn't have any cleaning supplies. So in March, you staged a public demonstration over the conditions at Staten Island warehouses. Why did you decide you needed to take action? Well, I knew that, especially being in a position of leadership, you know, what I was doing was risky altogether. And I knew that if I didn't do it, nobody else on my level would have did it.

So taking the action for me was just natural. There's no way I could have went home, laid my head on my pillow, and just forgot about the people who I spend 40, 50, 60 hours a week with. I consider them my extended family. So fighting for them was fighting for myself as well and my family. And what did you hope would happen? Honestly, originally, all we wanted was the building to be closed for a 14-day incubation period of the virus for two weeks at the time from the CDC guidelines and professionally sanitized, and then we'd come back to work. That's all we wanted. And then we wanted some transparency on, you know, if somebody has a case, you know, at least tell us as a building, tell us how we can protect ourselves. Give us the option to stay home. Give us some PPE so that we don't have to worry about contracting this virus at the time.

And Amazon just refused to listen to any of us. It was just business as usual. And that just wasn't sitting well with anybody. So they didn't take action. They actually fired you instead. Right. How were you notified of that? Two hours after the walkout on March 30th, that's when they called me over the phone. It was actually somebody I've known for quite a while, for four years, actually.

You know, aside from the horrific COVID conditions, there have also been headlines about how drivers have been treated, not given proper bathroom breaks, not being treated with basic human dignity or respect. If somebody hasn't seen those headlines, what would you want them to know about that? Well, I won't sugarcoat it. You know, even as drivers or Amazon warehouse workers, we go through the same thing. And I definitely experienced it myself personally. So it's true, you know, and I won't say I have, you know, had to decimate bottles or anything like that. But as far as me walking around doing my job, I had to skip a couple bathroom breaks and realize that I had to put my assignment before relieving myself.

And I know workers in this facility definitely do that every single day to make their rate, the amount of pressure they have on them to not accumulate time off tasks which can get them terminated. every single day to make their rate um the amount of pressure they have on them to to not accumulate time off tasks which can get them terminated um you shouldn't be working like that and um that's that's another issue that definitely needs to be addressed when it comes to workers you know and having some type of rights that allow us to relieve ourselves whenever need be without being penalized, or once again, have longer lunch breaks.

You know, we only have 30 minutes to eat a lunch, and we work in buildings that are a million square feet. So the time it takes for you to get to one side to another, it cuts into your lunchtime. And then you're sharing microwaves, you're sharing the cafeteria. You know, good luck trying to find a seat or use a microwave in time. So these issues very much exist. And, you know, that also plays a part into, you know, boycotting the company as well.

Until they treat us better, you know, you shouldn't support this company. So the stuff about going to the bathroom in bottles, that's real? Oh, it's absolutely real. You know, unfortunately, it is real. I can tell you, I wasn't a driver at Amazon, but I had plenty of jobs where I was a driver's helper or, you know, working in these straight trucks, taking long trips, you know, two or three hour trips a day. And, you know, coming back on these rides, you don't have the luxury to pull over to the restroom sometimes.

You have to go where you have to go. And it sucks, but it's the truth. What were the wages like at Amazon? Can you tell us a little bit more about the money trail there? Sure. They do pay above minimum wage. a little bit more about the money trail there? Sure. They do pay above minimum wage. They pay roughly about $15, $50 or something to start, depending on what part of the country you're in. New York is the highest paid region. Actually, Staten Island, this facility, is the highest paid building in the network, or at least one of them. So workers here get paid about roughly $19,

$50 to start. There is a cap, you know, after a couple of years of the same hourly position, you're capped out, which I disagree with as well. I was capped out at $25 an hour. And obviously living in a New York area, that definitely, the cost of living is not sustainable when you're making $25 an hour. So they can do a lot better. How do you get capped out? Like you can't make more than $25 for what reason? Right. Yeah.

I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah. You don't get any more raises. They usually give, I believe, about 50 cent every maybe six months to a year or something like that. I believe it's a year. Every year they give 50 cent or a quarter depending on your position. But you get capped out.

Working for the richest company that continues to grow their revenue, they cap the hourly associates out. So if you're a tier one entry-level worker that started at 15, you're probably capped out at around 18 or 19. If you're in New York, you're capped out at, you know, 21, 22. If you're a supervisor like I was, you're capped out at, you know, 25, 26. You're capped out, meaning you will not get any more raises. You know, if you're a worker, you know, basically that's like three and a half years or four years of working in the same position. You're stuck. You're on your feet all day delivering packages, you know, walking sometimes miles, it sounds like, within a warehouse.

That is something that should be capped. Oh, I can tell you, 60 miles per day. So these buildings are, for example, a million square feet. for example, a million square feet. And if you walk the way we were walking, we're talking the state of Rhode Island every day, 30 to 60 miles a day. That's not real. You can't.

What? Oh, it's definitely real. We used to compare our Fitbits. Stop it. We walked the state of Rhode Island every day, 30 to 60 miles. Easy. Very easy. So y'all had Fitbits?

Like, what would they say at the end of the day? Oh, man. 30,000 steps, 60,000. Who knows? We used to have a competition. Who had the most steps? And if your Fitbit was low low that means you ain't doing enough work you know that's how supervisors would you know pretty much have their little friendly

competitions with each other you know who had the most steps who walked the most miles um and i it's astonishing but i i can honestly say it's the truth you know it's you're walking non-stop you're on nonstop. You're on your feet. There is no sit down. You know, you do get your 15 minute break, which is paid. But at the same time, you know, 15 minutes, they want you to be at your station within the 15 minutes. Meaning that if you're one minute over, one second over, that time is counted against you. What?

And that's how they operate. Amazon is ran completely off of numbers and metrics. What? And that's how they operate. Amazon is ran completely off of numbers and metrics. They track you down to the exact second. We are the richest nation in the world. We cannot be treating workers like this. It's just inhumane, frankly. I'm fired up, Chris.

Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money Rehab will be right back. Now for some more Money Rehab. So for listeners who don't know or might not be familiar, can you talk a little bit about the Amazon unionization efforts? So, yeah, after Bessemer, obviously that was disheartening for everybody in the labor movement that was tuning in. So we're picking up from where they left off, why the iron's hot. And the momentum is with the workers. We decided to create our independent union here in Staten Island, New York.

And that's what we've been doing, organizing the workers, letting them know that this is a new independent union with no blemishes, no record, just workers organizing each other, especially Amazon workers. And we're hoping that this will resonate more with the workers. The fact that we are actual, either current or former Amazon workers that know the machine, know the business, know the company, and know the issues the most. We're hoping that we'll be successful this time around when we get to the filing and the election here in New York. So can you help educate us a little bit more on what you're asking for and what the process of unionization is? Sure. So first you have to get 30% of the building to sign unionization cards.

So that's where the stage that we're at now, where we're getting cards signed to get to the 30%. That and Island is just like Bessemer has nearly 6,000 employees. So we need 30% of that. Once we get to the 30%, we file with the NLRB, the national relations labor board, and they will hold an election. Obviously, Amazon will push back. They'll try to dispute the cards.

It may take a couple of months, but eventually we'll have an election just like Alabama, and then at that point, we will need 51% of the building to vote yes to become an established union. And from that point, then we'll have another

pretty much debacle with the company is trying to form a contract, and that'll be a whole other fight. How long have you been fighting for this? Well, I mean, I've been fighting ever since I've been fired. You know, I wasn't an organizer. I wasn't an activist. I wasn't a union guy. I was just a concerned supervisor and a father. And when I got fired, it pretty much catapulted me into the labor movement fight and struggle as well. And I'm walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time. I'm learning a lot.

But I've definitely been fighting since I've been terminated. Were you worried about being able to provide for yourself, for your family by striking? Well, absolutely. I mean, I knew that I was going to be the sacrificial lamb, but I don't regret it because if it wasn't for me, unfortunately, people have died in the same facility and many people have tested positive. But if it wasn't for me fighting and raising awareness, who knows how much longer they would have went without the PPE that they now provide. And I take credit when Amazon mentions that they spent $4 billion on PPE and protecting their workers. So, you know, I think I cost them that. And that's a great thing to say when you're a worker at the bottom of the totem pole.

Are you scared of Amazon and Bezos now? What they might do to you? I never was. No, I never was scared. I never was no I never was scared I'm not scared of you know anybody on God's green planet you know

only Lord and Christ himself and you know that's another motivation for me just that this fight is bigger than me it's bigger than myself and I know it's David versus Goliath but you know we all gotta be David and I have a's David versus Goliath, but, you know, we all got to be David.

And I have a very strong team and foundation here in New York, and the support has been worldwide. So I know that I'm not alone, and it's a great fight to be a part of. What would you want people who get a ton of Amazon packages, like all day, every day, and especially during the pandemic to know about what Amazon is really like? Well, yeah, I understand.

You know, people still shop at Amazon and it's like a drug. You got to wean yourself off of, you know, and that's what the issue is with Amazon. It's not that it's a bad place. Well, you know, it does provide a job, but at the same time, having a job, you just can't be complacent about anymore. And when you're ordering from a place like Amazon, you know, just think about what you was doing just 10 years ago. It

wasn't that long ago. You were still, you were getting up and going to the malls. You were going to Main Street in your local community. If you go to communities now and you go to Main Street, they're all they're all just not what it used to be anymore. The mom and pop stores are closed. The bookstores are closed. The toy stores that you grew up they're closed because of amazon and that's what people don't think about it's like yes it's a luxury to have one click buy but think about what it did to your community think about how this package is getting to your doorstep it's not a blink of eye it's not what these propaganda commercials see show you. There's actual people that are physically putting themselves at harm's way.

And there's multiple people, multiple buildings, before this package hits your doorstep. So if you think about that aspect of it, it'll make it easier for you to wean yourself off the company. And there's other alternatives besides Amazon. You just got to look a little bit more and you'll find it. Where can people go to learn more and to help? Absolutely. Follow us on social media. My Twitter handle at shut underscore down Amazon. No surprise there. My organization at TCOEW. Also our Amazon Labor Union at Amazon Labor on Twitter and Instagram, Facebook as well.

And the Congress of Essential Workers on Instagram as well, TCOEW. So that was most of my conversation with Chris. And overall, because Chris is leveraging such big accusations against Amazon, we wanted to dig a little deeper and take a little extra care to investigate his claims. First, Amazon denies that Chris was fired because he staged a walkout. Lisa Lewandowski, an Amazon spokeswoman, said in a statement, quote, We terminated Mr. Smalls for putting the health and safety of others at risk and violations of his terms of his employment. Mr. Smalls received multiple warnings for violating social distancing guidelines. He was also found to have close contact with a diagnosed associate with a confirmed case of COVID-19 and was asked to

remain home with pay for 14 days. Despite that instruction to stay home with pay, he came on site further putting teams at risk, end quote. And we know that Amazon did invest millions of dollars to create a safer workplace for employees, and that does imply an interest in keeping employees safe. I wasn't in that Amazon warehouse. I didn't see with my own eyes the work environment that Chris is describing. But here's what has been reported beyond Chris's first-person accounts. According to New York City Health Reports, the warehouse Chris was working at had at least 700 confirmed COVID cases between March 2020 and March 2021. And New York Attorney General Letitia James said publicly that Amazon's safety measures were

inadequate and might have violated provisions of the Occupational Safety and Health Act. And on the allegations of Amazon being a difficult company to work for, I will leave you with this. According to the New York Times, in 2019, Amazon hired more than 770,000 hourly workers, even though the company, including corporate staff, grew by just 150,000 that year. That meant the equivalent of Amazon's entire workforce, roughly 650,000 people at the start of the year, left and were replaced that year. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. Ask yourself, how well do you know companies you're spending money with? Remember that every dollar you spend is a vote, a vote that tells the company

you condone how they're operating. I know that there are two sides to every story, but personally, I'm on Chris's side and on the side of hardworking people like Chris, like you, who don't have a PR team, but do have a story to tell. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartMedia. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Catherine Law. Money Rehab is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert with help from Josh Fisher. Executive producers are Mangesh Hatikader and

Will Pearson. Huge thanks to the OG Money Rehab supervising producer, Michelle Lanz, for her pre-production and development work. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all.