Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Listener Intervention: "How do I recover from financial and marital infidelity?"

Episode Date: July 22, 2021

Today’s episode is a classic story of girl meets boy, girl marries boy, boy takes girl’s name off of bank account and steals girl’s money. Today, listener Faith calls Nicole to ask how to recover after getting “swindled” by Prince Charming.

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Well, it doesn't. Charge for wasting our time. I will take a check. Like an old school check. You recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin. We've had a few episodes on Money Rehab about money talk in relationships.

Earlier this week, we heard from Morgan, who's planning a wedding. And we've also talked to Changemakers Ali Webb and Adrienne Kaler. And Changemakers Cameron and Lauren Hamilton about how to have the money talk with your partner. Today, we have a listener intervention that shows just how important it is to have these money talks. Faith, a fellow woman in the finance space, recently popped into my clubhouse chat, and we got talking about her divorce. She sent me a follow-up email, and one of the lines I couldn't get out of my head was, I was still swindled by the most likable man you may ever meet. I don't know how to frame this question, but I guess it comes down to, can you protect yourself financially and still say,

in it together, babe? If I find love, I want to do things right, especially now that I have four children. So I'm bringing her on the show today to talk about exactly that. Faith, welcome to Money Rehab. It's so nice to reconnect with you. Yes, you too. Thanks for having me. Tell me about what's going on. So basically, I have a financial background, so you would think that I would know all the things that I need to know, but then I go into this divorce and, um, there are just a lot of things that with the way that we are taught, even culturally, I feel like I was not prepared for what I was going to be facing.

I just, you go into a love relationship and you're in it together. And you really don't think that this person who's so, you know, your soulmate is going to rake you over the coals. What? Okay. What does that mean? What happened? So not just after I found out about the most recent affair where, and he, I've noticed that he started siphoning money to his trading account,

which supposedly the market was down. So I was like, well, it kind of makes sense. But then I started seeing our joint accounts getting drained, thousands of dollars taken from our safe, all these things. And you just, I would not have expected that. And I looking back, you know, there's some things that, that I could have seen, but you know, you just don't believe that in people. You don't want to make the connection that they would do that to you. Well, you guys have four kids together. We have four kids all under the age of eight. Oh mama. So did you have a prenup? We did not have a prenup. And, you know, in going through this whole process, I even wonder how much that would have really helped

anyways. Somebody who's very clever, and my husband is a very brilliant person, they find ways. And unfortunately, even though the people in the justice system, you know, they want morality, the system itself protects the corrupt, unfortunately. I mean, I had pictures of him and his paramour, and that was enough. I didn't have enough proof because I didn't call within a couple of hours of it happening. There's a lot of these moving parts that you have to have everything perfectly buttoned up to really get what everybody says you can get. Oh, assets will be split down the middle. That's really not how it ends up happening. My heart is breaking for you, first off. Second of all, I don't think anyone would know that. So please don't beat yourself up about that. What do you make of the behavior that you saw financially?

Do you feel like he was preparing and trying to hide things in anticipation of a divorce? Or had he always done that? I think there were a lot of excuses I have certainly gave him. that? I think there were a lot of excuses I have certainly gave him that along the way, if I had known what I know now about his personality, I would have seen the progression. I think part of it, maybe in the back of his mind, he knew that a divorce was going to end up happening. So it's possible. I'm sure he's a very strategic person, started lining things up. I'm sure he's a very strategic person started lining things up. I'm in the financial world. I'm great at asking questions. And we used to have regular financial meetings together. We would periodically do them over cocktails. And I thought we had, we were financially aligned. There were things that he did. Like when we were about to have our first child,

he was going to go look for a car. He ends up coming back with an Aston Martin. You can't fit a car seat in an Aston Martin. We had an amazing real estate property on campus. So we never had but maybe two hours of no tenancy in this condo and he sold it. So there's a lot of little things like that, that I could have noticed. They're probably big to outsiders, but these are poor money decisions that I could have been starting to connect the dots along the way. Let's rewind for a second. When you were dating before you got married, did you talk about money? Did you talk about how you would divvy up the money or handle the money once you

were engaged and planning to get married? Oh, yeah. So we both were seemingly great with our money. Both of us had no debt. And he had told me the story of how he'd worked really hard to get his credit score because at the very beginning in high school, I guess he got himself into a bunch of credit card debt. In high school? There should have been a red flag. And so when he was in the military, he didn't have any expenses. So he used that time to get himself out of debt. So I'm thinking, okay, this guy and I were really aligned financially. We had goals of what we wanted to achieve. And it seemed like anytime I brought a new idea to the table, he was all supportive of it. I think we should start investing in real estate. Great. How can

I help you make that happen? And did you guys smush all your money together? Did you have your own account? We did put all of our money together. We did joint accounts, not right away, but once we were married. As soon as we were married, everything became joint. And was that what you wanted? I thought that's what you're supposed to do. It's like, you know, once you're married, you're like one person, you know, and you do everything together. I thought that this is how it was supposed to be I totally think differently now um I would not advise that I've

been thinking a lot about how I might want to split it or how I wish that I had done it in the past but still if you know I'm just thinking about even splitting the cost of expenses um i always made more than him always it's like each time he got a raise i ended up getting a raise too you know things like that would happen uh so how would we split expenses i wouldn't want to do it weighted in that case well hold on so you made more money than he did you put it all together and then he swindled it like how did that happen okay so i i noticed that money was slowly being siphoned to a trading account which i my name is on that trading account, which at the time I thought, okay, well, that's fine. I trust you. You're growing our money. Um, but then 85,000 just disappeared. And he would tell me things like it's gone. He got paid $120,000 commission. And I asked him

where it was and he said, it's gone. And when I filed for divorce, he magically lost his job. So then I start digging because my attorney tells me I should probably get a forensic accountant. So I said, OK, well, let me save some money. I can do at least preliminary digging. And so I dig through and in just one year, look, I realize how much has been going on, how much money has been siphoned out to, it doesn't say where, because it was a linked account and I'm not on that account. There were masked services, one's called H&H Hardware, and it's actually a masking service that you pay a subscription to that and it hides your expenses.

And so I look specifically at that one. It's gone back years. So thousands of dollars that have just been going out without me even realizing it. And I realize now some of the downfall when we had our meetings, he would always run the reports. I never was the one who did the extracts for us to look at um he was always the one to do it but you knew how to do it i know yeah and so why didn't you i was delegating to get some bandwidth back so i'm looking at the numbers and agreeing or disagreeing or helping with strategic planning of how we should do this, you know, for the next quarter or for the next six

months. And but I let him provide all the data, you know. I'm so sorry. I want to give you such a hug. Where are you with the divorce? So it looks like we are coming to an agreement. We have a settlement that's been on the table. Their side has signed it, but they're waiting on a quadro. So the document that dictates just the fine details about my 401k. So I'm actually, not only is he not paying child support and not showcasing his assets or any of his accounts, which apparently he has hidden ones somewhere else in the country, but I also am giving him a quarter of a million from my 401k. And this is what our justice system did. Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money rehab will be right back. Now for some more money rehab.

So you're at a place right now where you're wondering, how can you protect yourself financially moving forward in your next relationship? Right. I mean, part of this inquiry, because will I ever find love? You know, I'm in a dark place right now. But part of my inquiry is I'm curious for the rest of us out there. I'm like, I'm thinking about my friends, you know, what things should they really be doing so that they don't get stuck in the same situation? I think it's beautiful. Love is beautiful. And I love seeing happy couples. I think it's beautiful. Love is beautiful. And I love seeing happy couples. And I think it's great that you guys think that you're going to team up together and you're going to do amazing things together. I think that should do moving forward and what your girlfriends should do and my girlfriends should do and anyone else listening. But what would you tell your former self to do now that you know all the things you know now? I would say on any accounts, especially like my kids accounts, I would have everything as me listed as primary. Not because it really changes any control or because it may give me a leverage

when assets are split, not because of that, but because I would have control to remove the assets without permission. So he was on a primary on everything. And so he was able to do wires, even though I tried to initiate a wire, he's able to cancel it. So, um, he had, I left him with all of the power financially. Do you feel, cause I can sense it in how you're explaining it. Um, do you feel more shame because you know so much about finance that you didn't do more to protect yourself?

Oh, yeah. And it's embarrassing on one hand. But then on the other hand, I just feel mortified for other people that might not have enough financial savvy. I at least had enough and I know I had enough knowledge and I know enough right now to say, okay, we're living on $35 a week for groceries, but we're going to make it. I feel good about that. But it's, it makes me terrified for the rest of my community thinking they might not have had, they don't have the same, you know, education or experience in finances. But yeah, I fight tears all the time thinking, how did I let this happen to me? Baby, well, listen, you led with your heart. And that means you have a big, beautiful heart. But moving forward, we're going to do things differently.

So my financial advice is typically a combination of forgiveness for your former self and then tough love moving forward. I think that combination is the way to get results. So I would say for future faith, of course, you are going to find love if that's what you want. And when you do, my suggestion is to, as you know already, have your own back. suggestion is to, as you know already, have your own back. But logistically, I would have really, really honest conversations and a prenup. And if for some reason somebody is listening to this and is like, oh, shit, don't have a prenup, you can do a postnup. And so having that conversation and

coming to this from a place of strength is the only way to have a successful relationship where one plus one equals three in a relationship, I believe. You have to be whole people. You know, I think what you were mentioning about smushing it all together, like we're in this together, babe, you know, we're one unit. No, no, no, no, no, no. Especially as people are getting married older, you've accrued a lot of assets, you've lived your own life, you have made your own money and potentially, like in your case, have made more money than your significant other. And there is no shame in trying to protect that. There should be no embarrassment around trying to protect that. And I think that this could be a cautionary tale, and I'm so grateful for you sharing it to so many

others who, you know, go in like leap of faith, heart on your sleeve, I guess a wallet on your sleeve too, and get screwed. And that's not the thing you want to think about. But my suggestion is take back the power when it comes to these discussions about money. Suggest the prenup yourself. I hate when women are like, oh my God, he's going to make me sign a prenup. I'm like, bitch, I have a prenup already ready. I have not been married. If I do get married, here is my prenup ready to go. I am going to suggest it. I am taking back the power. I am taking back this discussion. And I think that that is the much better way to frame it. For whatever reason, we've been told that this is somehow a bad thing, that he's going to take

my money and he's going to, you know, he's going to a bad thing, that he's going to take my money and he's going to, you know, he's going to make all the money and he's going to manage all the money. The only way to change that is to take back the conversation, is to have your own financial acumen. And by the way, please don't feel bad. A lot of women in particular in financial services often get into these situations around the adage like the shoemaker walks barefoot, right? Doctors always get sick. It's hard to do it for yourself what you tell other people. So don't, I know that you feel shame, try not to feel as much because it's so, so, so common in all industries where you have this expertise that you tell other people how to do, but it's really hard to do for yourself. And so if you don't even have that knowledge, I think this is the time to figure that out before getting into a relationship because, yes, you don't want to think about the mean monster that this Prince Charming could become. But there is no better way to get out of

it sounds like yours was an abusive, unfaithful marriage than having your own resources. So many women, unfortunately, cannot get out of abusive relationships, of bad jobs. I mean, we're only focusing on relationships right now. But the way to do that is having your own money. So you should always have a yours, mine, and ours account. Hey, if you don't want to have an ours account, that's also cool. If you do want to have an ours account, that's not the only account you should have. You should always have a my account. They should have their account. There should be some transparency around it. I'm the

ultimate feminist, and being an ultimate feminist is not telling other women what to do, but saying you do you. But here are some other options. And so once the relationship commences, because you don't want the state to decide what happens, right? Because so much of this is dependent on the state you live in, especially if you're going into a marriage with kids, with your own money. You want to protect it. You want to create the rules, right? And it's not an aggressive conversation. It's an adult grown-up conversation to say, hey, babe, you know, our state, Texas, California, whatever, has this in place. We don't want to think about this. We're going to be together forever and, like, die together notebook style.

But, you know, who wants the state to decide our stuff? So let's just come up with the rules, throw the prenup in the fire. I have a lot of friends who have done that and then carry on. But you know what? We are grownups and we're going to have this grownup conversation. This is going to be the foundation. And then once that's done, and by the way, if they are really reluctant to do it, you'll find out so many things before it's too late. I love that. The one plus one equals three is great because I didn't ever think about it where coming together could be an opportunity

to magnify us as individuals. I wish that I thought about that. And what's funny is we had a prenup conversation and I'm sure there were tons of red flags that I should have been able to pick out. I don't know, when you're in your twenties, maybe you just need to get one marriage under your belt and then you've learned all your life lessons. Yeah. And I think that it's so

important. I mean, we women these days, we're all pretty much, there's a majority of us that are working rather than staying at home with the children or some doing some combination of it. So I don't know why it's still ingrained in our minds to still want to allow the man out of respect the control or power with all of our financial situations. You know, I should have been the one to take over knowing more, um, or at least, you know, owning the situations instead of just always he's put, he's pushing to not divulge something to me or saying that I need to trust him. Why did I not just push? I should have just pushed. And where does your ex-husband live now? Just for a friend wants to know.

Actually in fair proximity. Well, I don't encourage violence on this program, but I'm so, so sorry, truly, that you're dealing with so much of this. And you have so much internal strength and so much faith that I think that even talking about this can help so many others. That would be my hope, for sure. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. I know when you're madly in love, the last thing you want to do is feel like you need to protect yourself. It's hard to have your eyes and your heart open at the same time. Even though Faith had the money conversations with her husband, what her husband promised in these conversations was very different from how he acted. But trust me when I say seeing how someone handles their money can tell you a lot about who they are. If they're skittish or evasive when talking about their finances,

that is a ginormous red flag. If this person doesn't think twice about breaking the bank, what's going to stop them from breaking your heart? I mean, think of it this way. Choosing the right person is hard enough. Let this conversation help point you in the right direction. I've learned this the hard way myself, and I want to spare you the heartache. But as much as I'm a cautionary tale, my story has a happy ending. I'm in love, I'm happy with a partner that I trust financially and in every other way. So if you're like Faith and you are wondering now, can I ever love again after infidelity? I'm here to tell you, yes, you can. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartMedia. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin.

Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Catherine Law. Money Rehab is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert with help from Josh Fisher. Executive producers are Mangesh Hatikader and Will Pearson. Huge thanks to the OG Money Rehab supervising producer, Michelle Lanz, for her pre-production and development work. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together

and get it all. You spend my money, money You spend my money, money, money You spend my money, money, money