Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Lucy Guo’s Billionaire Playbook: Startup Secrets, Hidden Money Rules, and the Power of FOMO

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Lucy Guo built one of the most talked-about AI companies in the world before most people finish college. Then, she made headlines when she dethroned Taylor Swift as the youngest self-made female billionaire. Today, she joins Nicole to talk about how she grew wealth, and how you can borrow the money lessons that only show up after you’ve already “made it.”  Lucy tells Nicole about growing up bullied for not being able to afford the cool brands, scrappy strategies she used to save money when she was building her first company, and navigating the strange attention of being labeled a billionaire while most of that wealth still isn’t liquid. She explains the routines that kept her disciplined, the hard boundaries she set around lending money after getting burned, and stories of her wild money hacks like booking refundable flights to eat free meals in the airport lounges.  Nicole and Lucy also dive into the hidden playbook of startup money and the creator economy: how Lucy’s fundraising secret is to manufacture FOMO, why the wealthy borrow instead of sell, and the monetization strategy all creators should adopt.  Check out Nicole’s financial literacy course The Money School  Find a Financial Advisor or Financial Coach from Nicole’s company Private Wealth Collective Watch video clips from the pod on Money Rehab’s Instagram and Nicole Lapin’s Instagram Keep up with Lucy on Instagram and learn more about Passes Here’s what Nicole covers with Lucy:00:00 Are You Ready for Some Money Rehab? 01:17 Lucy’s Routine and the Impact of Success on Hustle 03:39 Childhood Bullying05:08 Lucy’s Confidence Reset 08:20 Unpacking “Paper Wealth” and Liquidity 13:40 Should You Lend Money to Friends? 14:35 Lucy’s Investing Thesis 18:34 FOMO Strategy in Fundraising 22:22 Billionaire Money Tips 25:03 The Robbery Attempt 27:38 Money Saving Hacks 33:43 Stigma Around “Work Hard, Play Hard” 37:24 Passes and the Creator Economy 53:45 Lucy Guo’s Tip You Can Take Straight to the Bank

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You've heard the Wall Street lore. The college dropout made it big in tech, the founder who left a tech unicorn and built their own. But Lucy Guo has lived the lore. She's a college dropout who co-founded the unicorn at scale AI. Now she's running passes. Today she tells me about the wildest, scrappiest money stories you will ever hear. He took my lap up. I sprinted out the door.

Damn girl! Yeah, and I caught him, like I would say like a mile, mile and a half in. And then what happened? I just like lunged myself at his backpack and tackled it. God, Lucy. Money tips she learned after becoming a billionaire. So what a lot of people do, I could then take out a loan against my shares. And then I would be able to take out a loan at a very,

cheap price and then be able to make money off of that and never pay taxes and then as those assets grow continue to take out loans and what it's really like to work hard and play hard i have an ex who closed a lot of deals at strip clubs and i always wondered like if there was an equivalent for women closing deals i have like done diligence on companies at constant stin raves you are going to love this episode with lucie quo i'm nicoe i'm nicoe the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Lucy Guo, welcome to money rehab. Thank you for having me. Oh my God. You look incredible. This is my DJ outfit. I think that hanging out with you now is going to give me some cool points.

I don't know. I mean, you seem very cool to me. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's nerd cool, but I'll take it for sure. And you said that right after this, you're going to Berries, which you're at. Oh, no, no. I do Barry's at 6 and 7 a.m. I just and seven. Yeah, so I do six and seven a.m. every day. But I was just like, you know, I woke up at 55. I was a little groggy. I was like, I'm just going to pull the first thing. I see DJ outfit.

So here we are. I love it. We haven't had this much sparkles on the show, but you never forget your first. I did Barry's yesterday morning in your honor, by the way. I love that. I'm not like the number one Barry's champion of the world. But, you know, when I show up, like, I do feel better. Yeah.

I think it's all about the effort you put in. Right. Like as long as you put an effort, you're going to get that serotonin release and you're going to feel good because you tackle the challenge that day. I mean, I had a baby last year. So like thinking about vulnerability that Brayne Brown talks about, it's not like live streaming your bikini wax. It's like showing up postpartum to berries is like, it was a very vulnerable. Like most badass people at berries are always a pregnant woman. Like I start at them and I'm like, oh my God, you're like pregnant and you're literally kicking ass. I love it. Okay. So you are all over the place from double hitters at berries to all. the podcasts to all the conferences, to all the things. Do you feel like you still work as hard as you did hustled as hard as you did from before you were successful? I would say so. My routine hasn't changed at all. I think I've always believed in the power of routine and like, you know, waking up early in

a morning to work out to get your day started. And I think that like there was at some point in time where I let go of that routine and I felt like I wasn't working as hard because I wasn't getting as many hours in a day. But I'm back on that routine, right? And that was. And that was. was how I lived when I was first trying to build companies, and that's how I live right now, where every single day I'll wake up between like 530 and 550 and then I'll get up, go to Barry's, do double workouts, and then just go straight to the office and work. I mean, even take me back to childhood, right? You grew up in an immigrant family like I did. I feel like there's a different mentality around needing to make money or the strive to make

money. So you've always talked about the idea that making money was a goal for you, even back to like neo-pets days. Where did that come? from your parents? I had Chinese immigrant parents, so they always emphasized the importance of education and money, but education was to make money, which is why in Asian culture, everyone jokes that, like, oh, like my parents want me be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or else I'm a failure at life, because those are three well-known jobs to make money. I think where I, like, wanted to make money really young, though, was the fact that, like, I was bullied in school. I never had, like, the coolest clothes or, like, the cool toys, et cetera. And these are things that I wanted to get

that my parents wouldn't get for me. So I figured out how to make money on the internet so I could get these things myself. It's crazy because I have a very, very similar story. I've actually never heard anyone else talk about it. But when I was growing up, I was also bullied for like wearing fake Doc Martins. And they're called like nurse martens because, you know, like I couldn't afford it. I remember like on the playground, someone told me like, hey, like if you wore Abercrombie and Fitch, you'd be considered cool.

But like, and like maybe we'd be friends with you. but you're wearing like aeropostle and my head air apostle was this like expensive brand right so i was just like wow i splurged on this and you don't like this that hurts i mean and look at you now well i mean this is actually really cheap this i got in um mexico yeah also true so how do you feel like that has stuck with you because even like today i've done you know a lot of things that people would find impressive you have done all the things that people find impressive but like somehow the bullies from high school, like, still get to me. Like, I can talk to anybody,

except sometimes when I hear, like, these girls' names from middle school come up. I'm, like, viscerally upset by it in a way that I'm not. That actually surprises me because I think I'm the exact opposite, where now I'm just, like, so happy and so confident and so grateful, right? Like, every single day, I just, like, I'm thankful that my life is how it is. And I also think, like, my mentality has shifted a lot to where one, like, like bad things happen to me. I just think it's a lesson that I need to learn. I'm like, okay, like this sucks, but I am just going to take this as a lesson, look at the warning signs.

And I almost like post-mortem everything in my life, I guess. So I'm like, okay, and then like this isn't going to happen to next time because these are going to be the preventative measures. I need to adopt that. How did you get this really healthy mentality? I think like at some point, I just became really happy. And I was like, okay, like I have this like support system around me. Like I have the best friends in the world who I would do anything for and would do anything for me. And I think that hatefulness really does stem from jealousy at the end of the day. Like there's no other real reason to think about someone and just be like so angry at them. It could be someone with like a nasty personality, but like you might still be jealous about like

what they have, right? So yeah, I'm just like, whatever. Like haters are always going to be haters. And like you're doing something right if you have haters. Yeah. I mean, comparison is the thief of joy. And it's also the idea of like taking poison and hoping the other person will die. Because really it's like poisoning. yourself. Some of this changed, obviously, youngest, female, self-made billionaire headlines everywhere. I would actually say no. I think it really changed when I learned to become very confident in myself. And this actually happened back in when I've, during COVID. I moved to Miami. And I guess I was always like a little bit bullied within friend groups before Miami. And Miami was the first place where I received like this extreme like selfless love. I can't really explain it. I think it like started

a new era for me. And I think also like as my, yeah, as like my confidence grew and like the energy around me was more positive, I was able to just start blocking out all like negative energy. Why Miami? Oh, I got bored during COVID. No, so not a tax situation. Not a tax situation. I actually, I am paying like I obviously had my liquidation event like last year, right? And I'm paying like all my California taxes. Yeah, I had the opportunity to escape. But at the end day, I'm like, I think it's worth paying the taxes to be. somewhere that like you need to be whether it's because it makes you happiest or like whether it's professionally right the sunshine tax yeah yeah it's a sunshine tax when you surpassed the certain

net worth did you feel like that added confidence or had nothing to do with it no it didn't have anything to do with it i was not really liquid until like quite literally last year like a few months ago but i felt this like i i would say like i turned much happier literally in miami which was 20. Love that for you. You guys, like, you'll trip to Miami. Let's go. Was it weird? Like, when that headline became public? I wouldn't say it was weird. I would say I expected it, but didn't mean anything to me because for me, I'm like, okay, like, this title is going to be taken over. Like, it's whatever. It's not liquid. At least it wasn't at the moment. I believe that, like, with anything ill liquid, things can go to zero, right? So I was like, it's all paper money.

But I would say, like, it opened a door's, like, new opportunities. I suddenly had a lot. lot of DMs from famous people. Like who? I can't say. But like in a sexy way or like in a business way? Because I get, I don't get any sexy DMs. I'm sure you're not shocked. But like I get businessy type DMs.

You want to invest or that stuff. I would say obviously mix up both. The ones I was obviously excited about were probably just like old celebrity crushes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. My imagination is running wild. And with these superlatives that we hear around like youngest,

billionaire on all of this. How do you feel about the youngest component of it? Because I had that early in my career was like the youngest anchor on CNN or CNBC. And then I wasn't. It felt like a weird shift for me, like that, that moniker. How do you think about that? I think about it is just it gives people hope maybe that they will achieve it one day. But like in reality, like you're going to have the title for like a few months and then someone else going to stake it. I think someone else already to take it. The Kalshi co-founder. She's like so cool. Won't let me invest in her round because it's close, but so cool. So you tried. Oh, I totally DMed her.

And I was like, hey, like, is the round closed? The answer was yes. But in the moment, right? Because I think every single person is different. So when they see someone that, like, looks like them grew up in the same, like, lifestyle as them, et cetera, they get hope. Like, the Kalshue co-founder is very different than me. Like, she was, I think, in immigrant.

Yeah. And like, that's just so different. But like, other people will, like, relate more to her than they relate to me and get that hope. And I think that, like, as new people get this title. every few months. It just gives more of the world hope. And then like hope drives a lot of like people, right? Like they work harder because if you don't have hope, like, why are you on this planet doing anything? It's really interesting that you say that because I know that you've talked about

not being a role model or not considering yourself a role model. But it sounds like you do know that you give other people hope. I know I give other people hope. Like I'm not sure if I'm a role model, but like I give other people hope and I always try to like give my advice in the bluntest way possible. And like I like giving me back that way. Yeah. I think. I think that. I think think when people, you know, see those types of headlines, they assume that you have like a billion dollars in your bank account. So for people that don't understand like the liquid, not liquid thing, can you explain? Because, you know, we talk about the idea don't mourn paper losses or don't rejoice paper gains, but you really live by that, which is incredible.

Yeah. So I guess the best way to explain it for people is if you start a company, right, and it becomes worth, let's K, like, $2 billion and you own 50% of it, that $2 billion is dictated by like whoever invested in it, but it's not really actually like $2 billion. Like one person could decide, oh, it's $2 billion, so I'm going to give you this valuation. When it could really, in reality, be worth zero. And there's actually a lot of investors are just, you know, stupid and they'll invest, let's call it $200,000 at like multi-billion dollar valuation. The founder could literally say like, oh, now my company's worth a billion dollars,

even though there's like $200,000 in the bank. I think another like maybe easier to understand an example is, let's say your family gifted you a bunch of Picasso's and suddenly you have like billions of dollars in art but like you still have zero dollars in your bank account and like are you going to be able to sell those Picasso's like you don't know how much you're going to sell it when you're going to be sell it etc so there's a very different like it's very different when you have like money and things versus actual cash were people hitting you up for money after that because they didn't realize I mean I would say people have been hitting me up for money even before I had like a dollar really but yes a lot

of people hit me up more money constantly and do you do you lend people money i don't lend people money no that's like a big no no for me oh interesting yeah or like friends or sometimes when friends ask me for money i give it to them and i just think of it as a gift like i write it off yeah i would say like if a friend was like homeless right like what i prefer to do um which actually just recently happened is i'm like oh here's like a room my house you can stay here however long you want right but if someone asks for I guess a money. I usually ask for something in return just because I think it's principal,

whether it's like, oh, will you like be my PA for a week then exchange for, let's call this $5,000. I've actually done that too with a friend. I gave her sort of like a token job. And I think that gives people a sense of worth too around it versus just charity. Because you never really want people expecting free things

from you. And I do think that like you for the most part can expect the money is never paid off. I've only loaned one friend. money ever and it's because I mean he comes from a very wealthy family and he makes a lot of money just like in his line of business it's you know you you need to reinvest it all right so he's always pay me back early and it gives me a large percentage on top of the money that I loan him okay so you're like a bank yeah he just needed like cash flow it sounds like yeah exactly it was more of like a business transaction but yeah people say decide what you want more the friend or the money if you loan

friend's money. So did you have a bad experience? You're just really cautious. I would say I have gotten scammed by a friend. It was more of an acquaintance friend, but it was like almost structured like an investment, but the investment was in a document as a loan. But he pretended to run this like meme coin crypto fund and showed returns. He showed me a cold wallet with like millions of dollars saying that like if you lost the money, meme points, he would back it with that. Turns out he stole someone's cold wallet. So yeah. What? Yeah. And so did you give him money? Yeah, no, it's a whole FBI case now. Oh, damn. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Oh, it's all good. It makes total sense. Yeah. I feel lucky because I didn't give him my net worth, right? But there were a lot of people like childhood friends. I've known him

since they were like three years old, five years old. They gave him like their net worth. And like that's much worse. Like they gave him all their money. Yes. Do you think you have a lot more people hitting you up for investments? I do have a lot of people hitting me up for investments. I think I need to say disciplined, obviously, to make good investments. And my thesis with investing has always been investing in the best engineers when I go early stage. So like my hypothesis is just like they can live off of ramen until they give up essentially because otherwise like engineers don't need to hire the people. You can continue pivoting different ideas. I'm like I actually just had an investment exit where he tried ideas for a decade. It failed after failed after failed, never gave up.

but just like, you know, lived inside an apartment in Oakland on a couch, like eating junk food and he just sold his company to Anthropic. So decent return for me. I'm pretty happy. Yeah. And I'm very happy for him. And I think that's just like I've had so many investments go that way where it looks like a dead company. And then the founder never gives up strikes gold.

But you see that because you know what that's like. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Do you have an idea of an amount like a fund or you're just sort of. of ad hoc. So I have been doing it with personal money. That being said, it happened like a week ago, but I had an LP interested slash it is just moving along. So it's probably going to be closed by

next week. So I'm starting a new fund. Knowing you. $250 million fund. Yeah. Let's go. Hell yeah, Lucy. Let's go. And proven founders to get a lot more credit and get a lot more money. Like it sounds like you were raising for your next company and just sent a bunch of texts, which you probably couldn't have done before you had that successful. Yes. So that was just, I mean, that was just a blessing. I was like, okay, great. Because I was a little bit nervous.

I was ready to fund. And I was like, oh, my God, are like my LPs going to be mad that I'm starting a new company? So the first thing I did was allow my LPs to invest before letting other investors in. And I think it was a whole mess. It was way over subscribed. I think I was raising like $2 million. It ended up being $9 million. Very high-class problems.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If someone's watching. and they have an idea that fits this thesis, how can they pitch you? They could just email me at like lucy atpasses.com. Actually, I'm a new one, Lucy at critical mass. Is that what it's called?

Yeah, we're calling a VC as of now. I mean, we came up with that name like, when I say literally this all happened within the span of a week. I was like, well, I mean, what can she not do? One or two LPs and gentlemen. Can they slip into your DMs? Yeah, they slip into my DMs. I actually read them and like just send me like a doc send.

I like reading about the founder too. so like a LinkedIn and then a docksend is nice. Good to know. And AI doesn't have to be AI. It doesn't have to be AI, but I like seeing how a founder like uses AI in their daily lives to make like running their company more efficient. And what do you think is the thing that's going to gain most traction within AI? Because like five years ago, if you had AI anything, I mean, you were doing AI before it was cool. But people would invest more because it was like the busy thing.

I think now potentially prediction markets is like, you know, the buzzword for investors. But where do you think there's like specific residents, agentic AI or what? Yeah. So I think at the moment, boring industries that are implementing AI to be more efficient are going to be the like big killers. AI is extremely good at like repeatable tasks and like analyzing like long form documents, for example. So I think that like Harvey AI legal, it's a huge, huge market. I think that AI is better at like doctors. or radiologists that like, you know, looking at images and detecting cancer, etc.

These tasks that, like, require, like, extreme memory, extreme computer vision, like, just analysis, the more data, like, if you enter an industry where there's tons of data, you can just pour into the software or into a model to learn from, you can 10x efficiency, right? I think that where it's going to improve is probably industry. So I'm not even thinking up because I'm unaware of, like, how the industry works, but, like, very old industry. Yeah. The boring.

Yeah. The boring. Yeah. Yeah. when you worked on the other side by taking money from investors, did you ever have like a weird experience that you want to do differently now that you are an investor? Honestly, my fundraising strategy has always been the same as like, you know, a founder, which is cause FOMO. And then through that FOMO, like, jack up the price of the valuation. I see. So cause from like, make them want,

like, be like, this is a rocket ship. Like, if you're not on this. rocket ship, you're missing out. Kind of. But like also just plant seeds without telling who you're talking to. So say like, oh yeah, like I would rather be like, oh yeah, I'm going to Sandhill Road. I have a few meetings. So like this day at this time works because then they're like, oh crap, like who is she talking to? Sandhill Road has all the best VCs. Like this is going to be a killer deal. I need to move fast, right? Like that causes FOMO. Even if you're not going. So I try to time like all my meetings around the same time. So then I get multiple term sheets at the same time and then make those term she'd spit against each other. How did you learn that? Because it's an art. Like,

there are some people that are really good at fundraising. And then there are people that are really good at the start of this 3D chess of like playing people off each other. I think it's a lot of it's psychology. So, you know, there's like the Kickstarter method where when like 80% of like the Kickstarter is filled, like it's going to get oversubscribed. People have like a fear of missing out. So I like the best advice I always give founders is start at a lower valuation. Say you're raising less than you want to raise. So if you're trying to raise two million, say you're raising one to one point five, right? Because then you could say, oh, like there's barely any left. It's oversubscribed. And then for the like the next like, call it 500K to like, let's say you bump

it to three million. So 1.5 million that you try to raise, you can jack up the valuation, which a lot of people do. Like it's better to be low expectations. Yep. Because like if you like, if I tell like, hey, I'm raising 1.5 million, like a whole million is taken already. You're like, oh shit like I don't have much allocation left but if I'm telling you I'm raising two million I have one million raise it's like oh you're I'm not even at like 50 I'm at 50% right it's not that great totally this is like what happened in real estate a few years ago especially in LA people would put their homes on the market for like one lower exactly something and a bit more yeah exactly yeah but I think that's why you want to give like a facade of like I don't need

the money right because that makes people more confident that you will make them a lot of money yeah it's so hard though it's Kickstarter method because you don't need the money when you, but you do need the money. Yeah. I mean, are there any other psychology tricks that you would give founders? I'm just a psychology group. So like, I always try to pitch VCs that I'm not interested in first before I move on to VCs I am interested in just to like get all the questions out of the way. So like I can give like a much more complete like data room for example towards that. And then they're impressed because they're like, oh, wow, like you've really been diligent about creating this and like you have all the data I need. I don't have to ask you for.

for more data. So you just want to polish up your presentation for, I would say, like, tier one vCs. So do that. And then another thing, I guess if I were a founder raising like a seed round or even maybe a series A, the Kickstarter works especially well when you're going after microfunds or angel investors because angel investors and microfunds do a lot less diligence. Like a lot of times like a microfund. So I would call this like a fund size of any thing below, let's call like $50 million. They don't really do diligence. Like they'll make a decision right to check in one day. versus these like more institutional vCs like it's their job to do a bunch of diligence right so they are like they may take two weeks before they worry the money because they're making sure

everything is like criss-cost yeah so it sounds like get your wiggles out kind of like comedians do at smaller clubs and they sort of test out their material before hitting like yep the comedy store yeah whatever now that you're in i don't know is it like billionaires club or like successful people love or I don't know how you would call it. But like now that you're you're there, are there any financial truths that have been gate kept by the rich? I mean, I would call it gate kept. I feel like this is just like something people like no, right? But like obviously if you take loans out against your assets, you never really have to pay taxes. So what a lot of people do, and I would just like me clarify, I was not able to do this because my like my company got bought,

right? So then I got a cash payout. And with that. cash payout, I actually have to pay taxes on. But let's say it never got bought and it just entered the stock market, right? Like it went public. I could then take out a loan against my shares. And then I would be able to take out a loan at a very cheap price, probably just like Sofer, which on average. Overnight lending. Yeah, overnight lending. Super cheap price. Probably like on average, like I don't know, like three to five percent. And then be able to make money off of that and never pay taxes. And then as those assets grow, continue to take out loans. So that That's what a lot of people do.

I mean, like, it's kind of brilliant. But yeah. We've done a lot of videos and shows about this idea. I found out about it, you know, the more successful I became because I used to think, you know, when I had credit card debt when I was growing up and like being immigrant's daughter, like I didn't understand sort of this space. It was like, if you don't have cash to buy the house, you don't buy the house. You don't buy the car.

You don't buy the thing. And I always thought debt was a bad word. but then the more successful I became, I realized that rich people use debt as leverage. So let's explain this. So you have a portfolio, let's say a million dollars, instead of pulling out, you know, 200K to put a down payment on a house, you know, rich people will like borrow against that portfolio so they don't sell, they don't realize capital gains. And then they use that debt and they pay the... I could do it that way. I would say with real estate, almost everyone does it with like an actual mortgage.

But yeah, like if you like had, this is actually a really good example. So like let's say you had a bunch in a stock market right now. And then you were able to take out against all your assets. Like that's called your home assets, your art assets, etc. Like take out, let's call like 50 million safely because like you won't get margin called on 50 million with like how much you own. You can put that 50 million into a private stock company like Anthropic where you know within like a five year time span is probably going to like 3x.

And then you're paying very, very, very. very little interest on a speed email. And then when it three X is, you not only get to like write off the interest, but you get, yay, the profits. Yeah. And then you can pay back the loan and call today. I heard that somebody tried to rob you, right, or break into your house. What happened? Oh, yeah. I feel like the target on your back. Yeah. So now I have a lot of armed security. But back then, I didn't. And what had happened was I was in Vegas. I just posted real time like, oh, I'm on my way to Vegas. So someone knew I was. Someone knew I was. home and then they came to my house and they broke the glass window and then tried to rob me but

my friend was home and yeah he scared him off oh my god yeah and i mean you you have an amazing person here with you today but like you're not rolling super deep with like armed guards right now do you do you have like bodyguards yeah so actually had an a list actress asked me this the other day and i was just like i think the difference like me and you is that like you get paparazzied and followed and like recognized right no one cares about tech billionaires like i don't think mark zuckabird's getting paparazzied and if he is i'm sorry mark like brian chesky i'm pretty sure he lives in la no one's following him around you never see him on a news and these people are like much much wealthier than me and i do think it's just like uh oh like we're tech

people or tech nerds like no one cares about us which is great because i don't feel the need to like walk around with the bodyguard i actually think that makes you more noticeable the best bodyguards are ones that are like more incognito, like they look like a friend or like short, tiny, they dress and like normal clothes. That situation scare you? Like, are you worried about safety? And, and you haven't been worried about safety because like at that day if I get robbed, like, what's going to happen? I don't really have that many nice things. You could rob me and like you're going to be sorely disappointed. I don't have expensive art. Like all my really nice stuff is like locked up in like a bank fault.

Like you just, I have nothing. I mean your computer. I do have my computer. Yes. I have had my computer stolen once at Starbucks. That's right. But now I'm assuming, I mean, you're, forget more than I will ever know, but sharing it's all backed up and everything. Yeah. Well, I mean, I got my laptop back. I chased a guy. Stop. Yeah. Like, you ran after them. Yeah. It was a really stupid decision, like, thinking, like, looking back, I was like, oh, he could have had a second guy and, like, they could have punched me or whatever. But, like, I just had, like, it wasn't the laptop itself. It was just like everything on my laptop that I needed, like all my work. So I'd actually just done two Barry's classes that day and I was at Starbucks just working.

And then, like, I, he took my lap up. I sprinted out the door. Damn, girl. Yeah. And I caught him, like, I would say like a mile, mile and a half in. So he was sprinting and you were sprinting after him. Yeah. And then what happened?

I just, like, lunged myself at his backpack and tackled him. God, losing. That's insane. I mean, let's go back to some of those days, the scrappy wild days of Vegas. You've done some pretty unhinged things to get by. Tell me about eating for free. Well, there's a few things I did to eat for free. So I would say, like, yes, I lived in Vegas and I would just go to the lounge.

You know, I would book a Southwest ticket and then, you know, check in, get in, cancel a ticket because it's fully refundable. And then go eat. But like, I've also done other things. Like, you know, like, it was a running joke that tech company, like, you could get free food through, like, VC funded tech apps. So I'd find, like, all the, like, you know, food apps that VCs were funding. And I would just post my referral code on different, like, who. on websites and then people would use it because everyone's looking for a discount, right? And then I would just rack up like literally thousands of dollars in free referral coupon,

like free credits and then just eat for free. I mean, you've talked about being a really big believer of the fire movement. Do you still want to retire early? Oh, no, not at all. I try retiring. It's so boring. You're never retiring. I don't think I'm ever retiring.

Like I can see myself doing different things. Like maybe I like stop building startups and like I think VC is actually a more relaxing life. So like maybe I end up doing full-time VC. I do a family office. I go into like foundation work, right? But I think I always need a work because I get happiness off of like my brain running and solving problems. Like that excites me and gives me like this serotonin adrenaline rush. And I remember I was like traveling around a world. I was so happy because I love meeting new people, making new friends, learning about new cultures, like seeing how beautiful the world is. Like I like still have like great memories of just like being on top of a mountain by myself and just be like, wow, this is really pretty.

but I just like I was lacking that like serotonin like high I would get from solving problems and I think I need that for the rest of my life so here we are here we are I mean that's priceless that's something you can't buy yeah and so you tried to take a little break after a big liquidity event and you just thought it's not well this is actually not after liquidity event I was like okay I think I have enough to like do I was like a mix maybe fat fire lean fire like I was like I could be comfortable right only the difference fat fire or lean fire is like retiring off of like very little money and fat fire is retiring off of like more money I guess and like living a more grand lifestyle but I also like little hacks to live grand lifestyles right so I was like okay

like let me just I don't care about where I live so I bought this like 70,000 dollar apartment in the airport yeah it's actually the airport it's two bedrooms two baths yeah I don't know like 2500 square feet it was next a bunch of homeless people and like there is a hole on the roof now because I think someone broken and like was living there because they started getting utility bills again. Wait, this is your hack to live a luxury lifestyle. No, no, no. But that was how I was able to reduce my rent costs. Like your main.

So everything else on my luxurious lifestyle. I see. So live in a shit hole. Yes. And then like, yeah, you could do like reddit churn, but then also. Charter your job. Yeah. Like, I mean, like, let's say like you wanted to like fly for free first class everywhere, right?

Just go to the area. port lounge and like start being really friendly to every airline employee and someone could list you as a buddy and then you get to fly for free everywhere has that happened to you every time i talk to a flight attendant i always make a joke like oh yeah do you want to list me as like your buddy i'm still trying to get jet blue right now but yes i have been airline buddies so they can just list you and you'll get upgraded oh so then they can list you and then you could basically fly first class for free yeah because you fly on standby but then you get upgraded to like you book like business right so and then you go buy business for free.

How many buddies can they have? Usually a few. Yeah, you can list like your parents, buddies, siblings. Jill are into getting deals. Oh, I love for things. No matter what's in your bank account or what you have in the major. It's a running joke in the office that like I love buy one, get one free. Bogo is the best.

Yeah. And like I was telling my friend was asking me like, oh, how do you discover good restaurants? I'm like, oh, so I literally go on Uber Eats. I click on like the deals. I find a Bogo. and then I go on Yelp and match the restaurant and dish to see if it looks good and it has good reviews and if so, then I try it. And if it's good, then I go to the restaurant and try other items.

But I find all my new food through like Bogo deals. And do you think that's always going to be the case? I think so. And the reason I think so is I think that like people that make their money really understand a value of every dollar. And then from that they really value when they can save money. I agree. I had like a small negotiating win with like a vendor that I was so, so excited about.

it was like 20 or 30 dollars but like for me it just felt like a win or or something that you know like I was getting for less. That's the best. Even when I had like a few million, I was still riding Uber pools and I was using a McDonald's app to save like a dollar or whatever. And my friends thought I was bat shit crazy. They're like, dude, your time is more valuable. I can't let you're still running Uber Pools.

And I'm like, well, I don't feel like I'm really wasting time. Like I work on my laptop. I'm a great conversation with drivers and the riders. So, yeah, I think I've always just been someone where I'm like, okay, like, I still, like, ride what, well, I try to optimize for what I was fastest, but also look at, like, the price difference on Uber. I'm like, okay, cool. If it's, like, $30 versus $60, I'm going to take the $30 ride even to wait longer.

But if it's, like, 30 versus, like, 40 and wait time is same, like, I'm going to take the Uber X over the comfort. Yeah, I mean, look, there's, like, the saying that rich people stay rich by acting like they're poor and poor people stay poor by acting like they're rich. And I think that like if you want sustainability, you know, you can't ball out on everything. Exactly. Like maybe you can get anything. You can't get everything.

Yeah. Like when I spend money, it's like usually for comfortability or like if I like don't want to like do a bunch of layovers and sit, you know, not a lie flat. I will like consider getting a jet. But otherwise like I prefer just or like if I don't want to be around like because like I'm a girl and I know like you know I'm in a scene. So I can always get free tables. But I'm like, oh, if I've got a promoter table where I have to talk to a bunch of dudes, I don't want to talk to. I'd rather just get my own table.

You go out a lot, as you mentioned. Have you ever closed a deal at a concert or a rave? I have, like, done diligence on companies at concerts and raves, not to my knowledge that I can remember in my head having closed a deal. Because I have an ex who closed a lot of deals at strip clubs. And I always wondered, like, if there was an equivalent for women closing deals. No. That actually like fascinates me too because I hear this too like where like business men specifically will go to like strip clubs or just like clubs in general and closed deals and it's just like so

like soicky to me. Like what? Yeah. I mean there's also sweat working which I'm sure is up your alley too. Yep. Or people are taking like runs or walks while they're having a meeting. So they're getting their that being said I will say I think that people there are people that do close deals at music festivals slash raves. And I think it's usually like the DJ themselves. So like let's say you're a DJ and you have a venture fund. It's just crazy that that's not uncommon. Yeah, it's not. It's so common. But there are DJs with venture funds where like, you know, they'll be like, oh, like let us into the deal and like we'll let you backstage like on stage and show you a good time. Is that work? Oh, fully works. Yeah. Because I think like you have these founders who, you know, they love EDM music. I think a lot of

founders like EDM music. My hypothesis is that like we were really nerdy growing up. We probably went through a depressed phase. And the BPM of EEM literally opens up to heart chakra and makes you all happy and like joyful, right? And in your throat chakra too, because you're screaming like all the anger and all the whatever pent up stuff that you have. I don't know you're screaming, but you're definitely singing. But yeah, I think that like then he gets struck.

That's how I say. Yeah. It's by screaming. But it's true. And also sports too, which is why, you know, a lot of deals get done for like courtside tickets or like getting into, you know, minority stakes of. Yes. Yeah.

Because I do think, yeah, it's like, yeah, I actually think sports is probably where, like, a lot of people do deals too. I can see that at games. Like, we take people out to games when we're, like, trying to, like, not close deals, but build relationships, like stronger relationships. Do you think there's a stigma around people who work hard, play hard? So I think the world is very sexist and I think the stigma only exists with women. And I say this because I'm biased.

Like, am I salty that I have this stigma? Like, yes. I think that people are like, oh, she's a party girl. whatever, she doesn't work. And I'm like, I'm just awake more hours in the day than you. And I actually am in the office longer than you. And on my laptop longer than you, I wake up earlier than you. I sleep later than you. I'm sorry that you did not get born with a gene where you can't, like you need your full eight hours of sleep. Like that's not my fault. Do you have that? Like the gene that you don't require sleep. Because that's a thing. I would say according to my eight sleep, like I have

pretty high recovery even when I sleep like five hours. I would say I was a lot stronger, younger. Like younger, I could do three hours and be fine. Now, I was like five hours, I feel great. But if I'm on four, I'm like, I'm not happy. I'm really not happy on four. But all the, like, guys in tech I know, like, they're party animals. Like, I, they're crazy. I think they're, like, a bunch of public examples out there.

You know that, like, you know, their tea has been spilled. But also privately, like, ones that you don't hear about as much. Like, they are doing everything possible, imaginable. They're out at 4 a.m. on Tuesday nights slash mornings, I guess. And nothing. Nobody says a thing. I was so surprised by this. When I lived in New York, I saw it more. You know, like guys would be out. Guys more. Four o'clock, whatever. Yeah. Then going running in the morning and then like to work. I mean, I feel like there are some people that are just superhuman. Oh, yeah. In that way. Now that you're so deep with passes in the creator space, what have you learned about the fees or like where to

creators get tripped up by not earning what they what other creators are potentially earning. I know you've talked about this idea that you know people shouldn't sign these 360 deals with managers yeah so 360 deals are terrible I think I'm learning that like some people have extremely predatory contracts and I can just go through red flags where like let's say a manager takes 20% of a deal but then if the like brand doesn't pay the creator they still owe the manager the money and a manager can collect from them. That's some of the more predatory things I've seen. I've seen like managers quite literally steal money from creators where the creator might be getting offered like $20,000, but the manager only gives like $5,000 out of that $20,000 or like they keep all the upside

in a deal. I think like my main problem with the industry though is that they think very short term and I think Hollywood is very like cash hungry. So they're not thinking about like the long term of a creator and it might even be like how agencies are structured, right? Like you have to get Let's call it a million dollars a quarter in like brand deals for creators. So it's not, yeah, yeah, the quota.

So they're not thinking about the equity upside for creators, which I think really matters just for like both long term generational wealth, but also like when companies are giving creator, like when companies are using creators, right? Like they're betting that the creator is going to be cheaper than like any other marketing spend they can do. And that's because creators don't have the typical customer acquisition cost

when they promote a brand because they have follow. that convert better than ads. So I really do wish that like this equity component were included. So creators can like certain creators might actually just, you know, bet on themselves and then like take equity in a company like Alex girl with like sip marks, right? Like she like bet on herself with equity. And I think you're seeing a lot of creators do this both with like, you know, incubating brands with other companies or like taking profits from like an entire line. I don't know why managers wouldn't just utilize the same percentage for the equity. Like if you got, you know, a point or whatever, like couldn't they take 20 basis?

Yeah. So they could. I think that it's not valued in Hollywood. The ones that really do value it got burned from it before. So I've met a few, you know, like influencers, celebrities whose agents like turned down the equity deal for them and then they lost like hundreds of millions. And then they're like, oh, fuck, like we need exchanges. Now those are actually the people that I've met that and they're creating their own

companies and then they're now worth hundreds of millions. But I think once you like realize the power of equity, you really value it. But because most people never really understand it because they didn't like, you never really understand things like you lose it. Right. And then you're like, crap, like that fomo hits. And to be clear, the 360 deals are basically where they're commissioning off stuff that they didn't book for you. Oh yeah. So like so many people are in these 360. deals where even if like you started your own brand and you were making money from it and your agent had nothing to do with it or your manager had nothing to do with it, they still take that 20% yeah. And I have friends that like have music managers and all that manager does for them is music

and they take 20% from everything else they do, which is super unfair. And like their manager's argument is like, well, we're making you bigger through music. So we deserve 20% of everything you do. But I just like, I don't think that's fair. It's not right. There's this old South Park skit that's like, I'm sure the writers were pissed at their agents. They were like, if you have all the talent, do all the deals, make all the connections, we'll be the best agents in the world if you just handle everything. Yeah, I mean, I've gotten myself into bad situations with agents and managers. It's hard.

And I think that I didn't realize early on, but I did later when I had some weird stuff happened with agents that tried to commission stuff that they didn't do. Like, I fought back with them. And so I think sometimes creators think that just because they get a bill, like they have to pay it. Or just because they got like a scary email or a better ones will like negotiate. But there are some that like immediately jump into lawsuits, which is not great. Not today. Yeah.

I had a friend that their agent was collecting their money for it on their behalf and like sending it to them but also handling their like rent, their bills, et cetera. And then he found out his agent was stealing money when the landlord called. It was like you haven't paid rent in three months. Yeah. I hate that. Yeah, it's crazy. With passes, I know. you have said that there will be a unicorn creator.

Will that happen in 2026? I don't think it'll happen in 2026. I'm going to be completely honest. I think that if I can make a unicorn creator in the lifespan in this company, I'd be very happy. So like, let's call it like the next 10 years before it goes public or like it gets acquired. But we are starting to like incubate some brands. So I'm excited. If somebody wants to be a creator or join passes, what's the process like?

And if somebody is like now just waking up to the idea that. maybe a creator, lifestyle or career is for them, do you think it's ever too late? I never think it's too late, especially now with TikTok and Instagram Reels. Discovery has become a lot easier. So you can gain followers pretty quickly. And I think there's just like certain scripts you can do to gain followers. I always tell people like the best way to gain followers would probably just do like a part 10 series and, you know, write a script or copy one of the scripts on TikTok. The difference between followers and fans, though, like there is a pretty key difference. and that's like are they interested in you as a person right like do they want to stock you talk about you

outside of like your tic-tok and instagram comments and that's actually what we evaluate when we see if someone will do well on passes or not like are you being talked about on reddit discord channels telegram groups forums etc because that means that you have like real fans or like are like fan pages making videos and like collages of you versus like just interaction on your page because it's so easy to comment like so hot so pretty ha ha that was funny but like real fans go one step above right so i would do like a 10 part series and then like start doing live streams to showcase your personality like throw in a random videos also that showcase your personality to like become an influencer and then to join passes really simple process you just apply and we review

your application check you're a real human and then we accept you and then depending on like how many followers you have like what your earning potential is we'll have someone in company reach out and like really hold your hand while setting up your profile and like setting up launch day etc So if you join, you then get a lot of monetization tools. Yeah. Where did you see the system was broken around monetization for creators? Yeah. So I would say it was probably around COVID.

I was at the same time I got really frustrated about like brand deals and equity because I had a lot of creator friends. And I was like, why are you guys not taking equity in these companies, guys? And over COVID, I had a lot of friends where they're like brand deals kind of dried up. And then around the same time, Patreon raised that like $4 billion valuation. And I was like, holy shit. Like there's probably something here. And I looked at the monetization tools they had.

And it was pretty bare bones at that time. Sorry, Patreon. You guys have done a really good job improving. So I was like, okay, great. Like I genuinely, when I look at like what tech companies to build, I think that the best tech companies are when there's a stagnant product that's lacking innovation, right? Like startups do better than these like large companies like Google, Facebook, etc.

Like they're able to come in because they're able to move faster. So I saw an opportunity to like move faster and build more tools for creators to monetize. And I think we're also thinking of it very differently than Patreon, where Patreon's entire model is like brand deals aren't paying you enough. So monetize with your fans and like have consistent income. And ours is like have that but dead bill generational wealth. That's the approach of like how we've taken it and how we're thinking about the 360 of the company. What do you think the future of the creator economy is? I think the future of the creator economy is that it's going to grow for sure.

When you talk to kids these days, like they all want to become creators. I think that's a good sign that it is growing. I think that people are going to care a lot less about just like how many followers you have, what engagement you even have. And it's going to be more based off of like how can you convert, right? So people are going to like start measuring like super fan communities because I think it is like a direct correlation to like, will this person be able to actually influence product sales? And then I think AI is actually going to have a much larger influence than people think.

I don't believe in AI creators because how like fans are emotionally attached to creators. Right. And like there is no like emotional attachment. when it comes to like an AI creator. Like you can't really relate to their life. You don't get excited to see like who they're dating, et cetera, because it's just not real.

That being said, I can see for like certain brand deals. It might make more sense to license out your likeness to a brand versus having to like fly out for a week, set up a production studio and have to have makeup artists, like video editors, etc. Like AI is going to be much cheaper at doing that.

And as long as you don't dilute your brand, so you don't work with like a hundred, different brands. Like you're going to be able to get paid relatively the same. I think that like, yes, you'll make less be able to work with more brands and expand your time, scale your time, but like you'll have more time to now reinvest into your content and like interacting with your fans and growing an even larger fan base. What would you just say to somebody asking for a friend who's nervous about showing more of their personal life? Like, do you think that that's a necessary ingredient to becoming successful now? I think.

Thank you. I have to share a lot of knowledge and people will like latch on to knowledge, right, which is why all these like finance podcasts and like TikTok, et cetera, do so well because they're like, oh, I learn something. Let me follow and continue to learn things. I think you can be successful off of creating like storylines and scripts. So like, you know, those like mini TV series on TikTok. Those do well because that's entertainment. And then you can be successful off of like being very personable. But I think being personable is one of the most important things. if you want to build a brand because if you like do these like for example like there's a lot of like actors and actresses out there right but like not all of them are going to be a little to build a

killer brand because you might be a star in a movie but like if you're not personable like no one really cares about you and I think like I'm like trying to think of examples I don't really want to like you know throw anyone down but like there's creators with like tens of millions or hundreds of millions of followers that like can't convert at all because like they might have them And they might have great engagement because they're hot or whatever. But like no one really cares about what they're saying versus like Taylor Swift. Right. Like people are obsessed with her because her songs are so relatable.

She's like made it a point to interact with their fans, etc. Like people love her. Myself included. Yes. I think that's like probably the North Star of. She's a North Star of like fan obsession. What do you think the big trends are for this year? I know like Gary V talks a lot about live shopping being the next.

live streaming. Where do you see it going? Live shopping, yes, that's going to be a trend. I think these other things, like I want to say like creators using more AI tools to create content or like selling their likeness or licensing not their likeness, etc. But at the end of the day, I actually think AI tool adoption is going to be a lot slower than we expect amongst the creator community because everyone, like we had that like new AI actress pop up right and everyone's freaking out. I think it's going to explode once creators realize and like everyone in the creative industry realizes like AI is not going to replace them but at the moment yeah I'm curious I guess like one like consumer trend I think is going

to happen is um and I don't know it's going to be 2026 or 2027 but I think it will happen relatively soon is vertical movies and TV shows explain so off streamers yeah so right now everything is horizontal right like when you watch a movie it's horizontal etc etc I think we're going to get like full length films. And I think Netflix will adopt this too. Like broken up. Of like, yeah. I think it'll be like part base.

I think that we're going to see like maybe interactive movies and TV shows and videos. But I fully think that it's going to go from like a horizontal format to a vertical format. You've been on a lot of shows. What do you wish somebody asked you that didn't? I don't know. It'd probably have to be like more of like my crazy like lifestyle, like things I do for fun, I guess.

Like, I think that I'm like interesting in the sense like I have no sense of fear at all. So like, you know, my skydiving license. I ride electric long boards. I have my scuba diving license. I like went nighttime diving without ever being trained. Apparently very dangerous. My motor's like a license. Yeah.

I guess like I just, uh, I think I have a lot of outside interest outside of like business. I think I have like very multi-hyphenate like very different personality types. because of that. Yeah. I mean, when we assess, like, in the finance world, risk, like, you look at those factors, too. So it's not just, like, risk tolerance within what you feel like the stock market is going to do. It's like, would you go to guy diving? I mean, you exude risk tolerance. Yeah. So, like, 360 in all aspects of your life. And for, because, of course, we're at money rehab, have you felt like you needed money rehab or made financial miscarriage? that you can help advise others not to make?

I would say my main financial mistakes I have personally made are buying apartments because you don't own the land. So like it almost never goes up, right? And then you have to pay a fucking HOA fee. So I would say this because like this is probably like does relate to the audience. Like you always want to buy a single family home so you own the land. Very rarely are you going to make money on an apartment after you like, you know, have property taxes.

And then when you resell it, you like, you know, have to pay a real estate agent fees. etc., etc. Almost always like a house is going to be a better investment. I can't even think of an apartment. I looked at where it would have made me money. I should maybe there's one in New York. But at the end of the day, like HOA fees are also uncontrollable. They can always rise. Like my HOA fees literally over doubled after being promised they wouldn't. And then there's just so many rules. Like you don't want that. So single family homes only. But also when you buy a single family home, like you really have to hold it for a while. Otherwise you're probably going to lose money on it. And I think that like above a certain price point, it's just not worth it.

Like I think that like my LA house I'm actually going to lose money on. Why? Maybe look at like the historicals of like LA mansions over the last like decade. They don't really go up in price. It's like pretty flatline I'd say. Not to mention that like the larger the house, the more problems it has like it breaks every single day. And so do my friends houses that are large. Like that's just a problem with large houses. And then like then like then you need to be. You need to be. You to get a house manager that you didn't like you know factor into the cost it's just a mess i think that like anything like five million and under if the historicals look good you can make money off of it amazing but like when you start going higher and higher like it the map you kind of buy the house

knowing that you're going to lose money not to mention that like now you're locking up money because even if you do get a mortgage you're still having to put a down payment on right that like that money could be reinvested elsewhere like renting from what i found is actually almost always cheaper. I always see all the other clothes going like, home ownership, like key to freedom, et cetera. And then like, I think you really need to do more research on like what kind of apartment in your house

are you looking at? Like what's the area? What the historical is like the last 10 years? And then factor in other costs, like maintenance, cost, property taxes, et cetera, insurance. Because I would actually argue most of the time you're saving money renting. I argue that all the time.

We argue that on this show a lot. Because, you know, if you look at actually just the numbers, it's not a good investment. Maybe you're getting the home because it's like an emotional thing or stability. Like I saw my house foreclosed on when I was a kid. So like maybe I want a home or, you know, something like that, which is just as valuable and just as important. But it's a different conversation than a strictly financial investment conversation. Because it's growing 4.5% year over year, which is less than putting your money in VO. Exactly.

Okay. So we talked about a mistake. or a misconception in finance. We end our episodes by asking for a final tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. Is there something that you would suggest financially? I just have such like different risk tolerance where I like prefer going all in versus playing it slow and easy.

So like, for example, like if I had only $100,000, I probably just be like, okay, let's just put it in like Amazon and call it a day and like close my eyes flying like. Like you're really like if you're going to just go with the S&P like yeah it grows like you're never going to make a lot of money versus if you go all in on something you have the opportunity to make a lot of money. I mean higher risk, higher reward. Yeah, exactly.

Like it goes in parallel. So I guess for me, my financial advice, it would be really different between on someone's risk tolerance. So I'm the type of person that really does go all in, which is, you know, wide. It's startups, right? Like I left the multi-million dollar job to be able to like to have the like one percent chance, like less than one percent chance. building a unicorn and like it worked. That being said, I think that like the smarter piece of

advice would probably be like put maybe 70% of your money into S&P because it's always going to grow in return. It does beat like every hedge fund when you look at like it long term. And then maybe put the other 30% in risk your investments, whether it's Bitcoin, whether it's like your friend's company that you really believe in. I think if you are very specifically, if you are deciding to go all in on a startup hoping that you'll succeed. I would personally do is like, I hate to say it, but like there's a reason why in VCs, like people do follow, like, it's like, we're considered cheap and like we follow tier one VCs because they do make the best judgments and have like the best calls at the end of the day.

So if you like see a company that like, let's call it, went through Ycom Nader and Sequoia invested in them and like it's in the AI space and the founders like, you know, went to MIT. Chances are like, worst case scenario, they'll get aqua hired and you're still going to make a return and a pretty good return. So just put the $100,000 in there, like put your other $30,000 in there and call it a day. Close your eyes. If you have your risk tolerance. If your risk tolerance is there. And you mentioned, you know, like being in corporate, if somebody works at a SNAP type company or if they're offered, you know, some equity package, where do you see mistakes made around that or like knowing what that should be, like options? What are the questions that you should be asking?

So what I've seen is a lot of people just get a dollar amount of like this is how many RSUs you're getting, but you're not understanding like, okay, at what valuation, how many shares is this actually, which isn't great. Other times you'll get like an offer saying, okay, you have like 2,000 shares, but you don't really know what the value of those shares are. And you should always ask these things to clarify. So you know like an exact amount of like how much you're actually getting. And then outside of that, I think a big mistake I see is that like if you're at a startup that's not

public yet, just take the lower salary. Like, I'm going to assume if you're at a startup, and you probably are younger and you don't need the, like, safety net of a larger salary, like you don't have kids to feed. And if you do have kids to feed and you're joining a startup, chances are you are already successful and have a savings and you decided to finally take some risk in your life. So I always say, like, as long as you're, like, below a series, like, like series C and below, take the larger equity package. Well, Well, one of our most popular episodes actually was understanding private company equity and like asking those questions about how many shares are outstanding or like liquidation preferences or stuff like that because they think, you know, to clarify, yes, equity can be better, but it's not always. And it's also never like always going to, you know, hit the moon or whatever because I think they see. And you'll see your strike price if you're getting shares, etc. You mentioned putting it 30% potentially in riskier assets like Bitcoin. What's your latest take on crypto? Like how much crypto do you? have? I actually have no crypto. No crypto. Yeah. So I mean, I had some crypto and I forgot,

I don't know where wallets pass codes are. So I now have no crypto and like for the one. But didn't you get Bitcoin at like 100 or something? Yeah. So I got Bitcoin at 100 when I was in high school. Crazy. Wasn't I've had wallets. I don't even know where my wallets are anymore. It's funny because I always see people trying to hack my coin base and I'm like, I have nothing in there. You don't have to go with my coin base. Yeah. And then I do you can't get it back. No, no, no. I just I made a bunch of different Metamask wallets and I'm like whatever but I never really had that much like and I did recently I was really stupid here but like I downloaded this app called Moonshot and I was like oh like meme coin investing let's try this and I was making so much money on meme

coins and then I got a text going like I was literally running on a treadmill and it's like okay put all your money in Rismas right now and I was like whatever right like it was gambling for me and like I said I was like I was willing to go all in so I put all my crypto in Rismasman anyways a tank went to zero so now you're out yeah i'm out but who knows maybe a rismus will pop up this christmas