Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Mara S. Campo's Epic Money Makeover

Episode Date: November 24, 2023

Mara S. Campo drops in to fill Nicole in on the amazing Money Rehab she's been up to. Listen up to learn how you can make her money moves! For more on Mara, find her on IG @marascampo

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your

reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Today, I'm talking to four-time Emmy award-winning journalist and anchor extraordinaire,

Mara S. Campo. And this episode really just started with a text she sent me. But before I give too much away, let's just get into it. Mara S. Campo. Thank you. Welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you. It's good to be here. So last time I was in New York, I reached out to Hang. You were traveling at the time, but you sent me the best text ever about your quote financial makeover. You said, I didn't even know the interest rates for my cards. Now I have a spreadsheet detailing every penny. Mara, tell me everything. Okay. So I have you to thank for this in large part. So backstory, very quick summary. COVID like was really hard on my husband and I financially because we've really invested heavily in real estate. We have four rental properties and we're in New York City. And so we intentionally didn't have people on really long-term restrictive leases because like if

people want to go, they should be able to go. And you can always find another tenant in New York. So that was kind of our thing for like 15 years. COVID hits. We lose three out of four tenants. We were looking to rent apartments at the height of COVID. I'm talking about spring of 2020 in New York City. So we had to accept these like super low rents. Then, you know, turning an apartment over is a ton of money because you have to, you know, get it ready for the next tenant, especially if the previous tenant's been there a long time. And then tenants were really smart. So they asked to be locked into these low rents for a period of time. And we basically had to there a long time. And then tenants were really smart. So they asked to be locked into these low rents

for a period of time. And we basically had to say yes to everything. And then our one remaining tenant asked for a price match because he saw the other units on the market. Oh, okay. And so we're like, okay. He was listening to Money Rehab. Yeah, exactly.

So all that to say that was incredibly difficult for us. And then we had an arm, which we were prepared for, but we weren't prepared for it in the age of COVID, where now we're getting 30% lower rents. We're locked into these long term low rent leases, we had to spend all this money returning security deposits and turning apartments around. And then interest rates start going up and up and up and up. It's just this perfect storm of us getting screwed financially. So I remember going through our household expenses and getting rid of like, okay, I'm going to get rid of the discovery app. Cause you know, it's $7 a month. Okay. Let's get rid of that. Okay. I'm going to get rid of, Oh, Jim. Okay. We can do blink. That's $10 a month. We'll just do that. And then it was like, I heard your voice. I remember you saying something about coffee. Like, you know, all these financial analysts tell you, oh, don't drink your coffee. That's $3 a day. And you could always be like, no, have your coffee because like there's other things you can do financially that will set you up better.

And it was like, I heard your voice and I was like, Mara, this is not a $5 a month problem. Many thousands of dollars a month problem. So keep your discovery subscription and figure out how to fix this. And that's when I just got serious about it, about knowing every single detail of our finances. And once it's in black and white, it's actually pretty obvious. I'm so proud. My heart is bursting. Okay, so you put it down on paper, because I think oftentimes, we suffer more in imagination than in reality. And so we think it's going to be this big, scary monster. And maybe you thought that. You tell me. It was. It was a terrifying monster. And it took about a year to dig out of it. It was bad. I mean, we were losing money every month. So you put it all down. You tried to see what the rates were. An arm, just for anyone who might not know, is adjustable rate mortgage. And so, you know, they go up as interest rates go up, which was happening as inflation was kicking in. So you put down what on this spreadsheet?

So it was everything, all of our debt. And it was organized by the amount we owed and the interest rates on it. So that I could at least see where it made sense to direct money and where I could transfer debt to something with a lower interest rate. So close those higher interest rate things and where I might need to negotiate. And the one that was clear needed to be renegotiated was the mortgage on the income property. It was just too big of a problem to manage long term. I hate asking for financial help.

Like I've been independent on my own since I was 24 years old. My parents did. I hate asking for financial help. Like I've been independent on my own since I was 24 years old. My parents did give us a deposit for a house. I want to be frank about that because that's a huge advantage to start life with. But other than that, I have not taken money from anyone since I was 21 years old. So it never even occurred to me to ask for help. But we didn't ask for help during COVID when we weren't getting rent. And they had all these relief programs like we didn't take advantage of any of it. So I reached out to the bank, you know, they have these loan mitigation programs. And I was very specific about what I wanted. I wanted the lower interest rate that we had had previously. I wanted it locked in for a period of time so that we could recover

from all of these hits. And they agreed. Yes. I'm at a 3.5 interest rate for a period of time, which like is unreal right now. Like now rates are 7%. Well, you texted me and you said that this money stuff just finally clicked. So I talked to a lot of people, of course, who are trying so hard to have that aha moment. You know, what made this click for you? What stars had to align before it felt like you could pick up that phone and ask for a lower rate or even know that that was possible? I didn't realize how much of my financial decisions were based on emotion and preconceived notions that were not supported by

the numbers. When I started looking at it strictly as a numbers game, like you have to take your like, I'm talking to myself now, like Mara, you have to take your emotion out of this. You have to put these numbers on paper, you have to face the reality. And then you have to put a plan in place to address it. Because even my husband was so stressed, he couldn't look at the numbers. I mean, you're talking about your family's livelihood, like that's how stressful it was. And I just knew that wasn't going to solve the problem. Like you can't put your head in the sand because we were, we were using our retirement money to stem the, you know, the bleak. And so once I put everything on paper and I started

really looking at it as like a numbers game, like it just made so much sense. Like, you know, in the matrix, when everything came together for me. So it felt. And then I had this moment and I said this to my husband who works in financial, he's worked in financial industry for almost 20 years. And I said to him, like, wait, so basically this is all like gambling. And he's like, yeah, people are making guesses about what they hope will perform well. And sometimes you make money and sometimes you lose money. And so you can gamble with less risk or you can put something somewhere really, really safe.

You know, so I just started learning all of this stuff strictly from a numbers perspective. Like, how's my money going to make me the most money? Where am I bleeding that I can stop the bleed? Where can I transfer? And that solved the problem. I mean, we transferred a lot. We did a lot of consolidation and transfer. So we took out a home equity line of credit on our house with an introductory rate of 2.5%. We put all of our credit card debt on that credit card debt that was at 20, 25%. Now it's 2.5%. So we're actually paying down the principal as opposed to just, you know, throwing money away on interest fees. My credit is through the roof. It's 808.

Like I'm on top of the world. Like I told you lunch on me when we see each other. I am so, so proud. So let's double click on that part where you said before this, there was a lot of emotion. What were some of those previous emotions? So the big one was the idea that real estate is the smartest investment. I never challenged that idea and I never thought it through. And I remember, again, you saying you may want to chase people for rent as an investment, but I would rather not have to work so hard for my money. And when I thought about it, I realized, A, being a landlord is a job. It's not like you park your money in something and it's getting like compound interest. Like this

is work all the time. So then I put those numbers down. How much has it appreciated? What's the rent roll? What are our expenses? And then I realized that I could make the same return on something with far less work. So we are now looking to get out of a lot of the real estate that we're in, especially in a home, you know, we own a brownstone. So a lot of our money is going into maintaining the building. So I was like, Hmm, if we invested in condos, we wouldn't have that expense, we would be getting rent, and we would just be paying the mortgage. So that's an example of something that I just always believed was true. Real estate's just going to go up, up, up. You'll get this huge return on your investment and you'll get dividends essentially in the form of passive income

in the process. And that just wasn't the case for us. It's costing us too much money. Maintenance is too high. And stress, I'm sure. Stress, yes. People are calling you and they have like plumbing problems and whatever else. You know, it drives they have like plumbing problems and all hours, whatever else. Yes. You know, it drives me crazy, honestly, when people say, well, you know, it's just throwing money away when you're renting like you never get it back. It's like, oh, hold on. Do you get interest payments back? Right. Because last time I checked, you don't. And people are like, well, why would you just go and give the money to a landlord to pay their own mortgage? It's like, well, if you go to a restaurant, you don't complain that you're just paying the landlord's rent for that restaurant. You just had a nice meal.

Like you just lived in a place. That was the thing that is a cost of living. And you don't have to necessarily get that back. And it's not as easy as like passive mailbox money just magically showing up. We're literally doing nothing. I think that there's this huge misconception. So what part of that started resonating with you when you crunched the numbers? What did you see? Were you making any money at all? Yeah. So we are making money, but we could be making the same money in other investment vehicles with none of the work

and none of the stress and none of the, you know, heating oil wasn't delivered in the middle of February and the tenants are freezing and we have to address it right now, which is stressful for me personally, like that's somebody's home, you know, like I don't want anybody suffering. So I just realized that the things that I always assumed weren't necessarily true and that I could challenge them and learn more and just try to make the smartest decisions. Like I did an exercise where I like put in a hypothetical sales number for our house and then, you know, capital gains, everything like what we would get when we sold everything and put it in a compound interest calculator, like a very modest rate that far outpaced the appreciation

on the home. So it was just so obvious, like this is not a long term investment that makes sense for us as much as I thought it did. There are other ways. What are those other ways? And approximately, if you don't mind sharing, like how much were you finding you would actually be getting? What did you think you would be getting? What did you find when you crunched the numbers that you would be getting? And where else could you be getting that? For most of my life, I was very retro in the sense that like I let my dad and my husband manage the money. And I was just kind of like, you know, it embarrasses me to say that because I'm a professional.

I think of myself as like a smart woman. But when it came to money, it was just like, oh, let the boys take care of it. And so I have this idea in my mind that whenever we decided to sell the house, it was just going to be like, you know, Daddy Warbucks came and dumped a pile of money on us because we bought it, you know, in 2004 and you hold on to something long enough, it's going to make you a ton of money. But when I actually looked at the numbers, it just wasn't what I always assumed it would be. I had this idea that it was a pot of gold. And then it's like, no, there's capital gains taxes that you have to pay. If you did

renovations, those depreciate over time. They're like a lot of money that comes out. It just wasn't what I thought it was. And so that was really helpful because I like the idea of real estate, especially the black person. Homeownership historically is something there's been a barrier of entry for black people. And so I like that the idea of real estate still. But the way we're doing it doesn't financially make sense. Like we have a building with heating oil. Heating oil is $10,000 a year. Yeah. You know, we're tied to like energy prices. Like, I don't want to do that anymore. I'm so, so glad that we're having this conversation for a thousand reasons, but also because there is this idea and I hear it all the time from folks that they're just going to get these income properties and that that's going to be their ticket to wealth. And that's going to be their ticket to wealth. Where did you first learn that? When did you just assume that that was going to be your ticket to daddy, mama warbucks, like later on in life?

Where do you think that came from? It came from my parents because my parents did that. My parents always had an income property and they would be different over time. But I remember many times them buying something new and we'd go like, look at it in different stages. Like, you know, most things had to be fixed up or something needed to get reno in DC in the eighties. And so they made like three apartments out of it. So it just seemed like this, not only an investment, but a really cool investment because like, if you're a creative person, you really like designing spaces, designing homes is really rewarding. Like just thinking about how people are going to use the space. And so there's something warm and fuzzy about that. And, you know, that paired with the idea that it was just going to

be rent, you know, raining down on me every month. And then whenever we sold it, it was going to be all this accumulated home value. And I wanted to buy more. Like if you would have asked me five years ago, I'd be like, Oh, you know, we want to own six brownstones. I just had this idea that I never challenged. Okay. I mean, what was your relationship like growing up in your home with money? I mean, speaking for myself, I can just say I had a lot of bad habits around money from the crap I saw when I was growing up. And there was a moment for me to where I was like, okay, just because it was done a certain way doesn't mean it's the way it needs to be done. Like when I became vegetarian, I was like, yes, my family ate meat, or my family, we grew up Jewish. And then I asked myself, self,

do I want to eat meat or self? Do I want to be Jewish? And like, you know, there's a moment where, by the way, I could say yes, like I did want to be Jewish or, you know, whatever. I could have said, yes, I like meat. But you, you have to question like the way it's always been done. At some point, I think everybody does. Yeah. You know, I had this thing and I would almost like brag about it. We're like, I didn't care about money. It's not that I didn't value it. Like I understood the value of a dollar, but it wasn't going to like make me it wasn't going to bring me joy, material things were not my focus. I saw that as a virtue, right? And so because I perceived to be a virtue that I don't really care about money, then worrying about it and working to grow it was kind of in conflict with that. And it's not that my family was wealthy, but I mean, they, we didn't have to

worry about things. You know, we went on vacation, food on the table, you know, back to school shopping. It was like those things were always there. I just didn't ever worry about money or think about it. It was almost like this idea of like, oh, the universe will provide, you know, which is great. Faith is amazing. But I think faith and works is really like, you know, the magic ticket. But when I lost my parents, I learned something really interesting that I did not know.

I always viewed them as a safety net. I never used that safety net. I had borrowed money from them over the years, but paid it back in full within a year with interest every time. It was so important to me to be financially independent. But in the back of my mind, I always knew if something happened, I could go home. That me and my kids and my husband, we could go there and we would be taken care of. So when I lost them, I realized that because all

of a sudden I was like, no, no, it's all on you now forever. And for your kids too. Maybe you don't value material things, but you better get your shit together because your family is counting on you, whatever you have to make sure it lasts until the day you die and you have something to leave them. And that just gave it a lot more weight. Yeah. And when did you realize that focusing on the small things wasn't going to ultimately help? You know, you said you refinance for better rates, closed accounts, you know, raise rents to align with market value and all of that stuff. So of all those changes, what do you think had the biggest impact?

I mean, I'm sure it wasn't the discovery app. Right. It was not. The gym. Right. Allow yourself small indulgences. Yeah. My take around that has always been like give yourself small indulgences. What you're paying in interest is what you should care about the most because that is the biggest chance of change. Yes. The biggest difference by far was opening a HELOC on our primary residence.

Got a really incredible rate, 2.5% for a year. After that, it's prime for the life of the HELOC, taking all of our credit card debt, consolidating it, and putting it on that HELOC. So we went from things that were 20%, 25% interest rate to now paying 2.5% and we're paying it down. We have a plan to be at zero, hopefully soon. So that was a huge one. And then the arm was huge because the interest rates, they were just destroying us, you know? And it's like every time the Fed would want to cry, like I would lay awake at night, like so stressed because that's like real money. Like I would know that like our next payment now is going to be maybe $500 more on

certain things because the Fed is meeting tomorrow. It's just so incredibly stressful. So I just wanted to remove myself as much as possible from anything tied to interest rates. Yes. I love that because the interest rates is what's going to get you and also your credit score, where I say, stop focusing on the latte, get your credit score up, because the higher your credit score is, for anyone who doesn't realize the connection, the lower your interest rates are going to be. Not everybody has the same interest rates. Like if we look at our credit cards, which often we don't sit around and say, Hey, Mara, what's the APR on your credit card? Right. But it's not the same for everybody. It's all connected to your credit score. It's like

your financial report card. Okay. And then when did you find that confidence to call the bank up? I'm a problem solver and I'm a mama bear. So like, for me, it really was about my kids. It's like, I got to protect what we have because I got to leave them something. I'm kind So like, for me, it really was about my kids. It's like, I got to protect what we have, because I got to leave them something. I'm kind of like, I won't take no for an answer. So I actually had not heard back from them. And I kept following up and kept following up and kept following up, didn't hear anything for months. So then I hit them up on Twitter. And I was like, hey, guys, do you have a contact that I can reach out to? And then somebody emailed me, like a day later and

said, oh, we're so sorry. And I believe that they're probably overwhelmed with these kinds of requests because look at interest rates. And they were fantastic once we were actually in contact. You know, they really wanted to help us work through this. And again, like to your point, I think having good credit helps a lot because it's like, OK, well, these people pay their bills on time. They've never missed a payment with us. Like clearly there's something going on. And they ask for everything. Like my gynecologist knows less about me than this bank. Like they wanted like spreadsheets on our household expenses and all of our bank statements for months going back. And we had to say like any deposit more than $500, like what's the source of that? And like, it was intense, but it's like, okay,

we'll do what we got to do to try to make this work. Financial colonoscopy. Yeah, exactly. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no

maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes

at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that.

If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash

host. And now for some more money rehab. So switching gears a little bit bit you do a lot of reporting on the racial wealth gap and supporting black businesses you are my hero so as an award-winning journalist and someone who went through a money makeover yourself where can we make real progress on closing the racial wealth gap yeah that's a great question and that's something we're actually at Revolt, we're looking at doing a lot around that for Juneteenth, because, you know, the wealth gap is a really big thing. And the wealth gap, I don't know that a lot of people are aware that it's comprised of so many different things, right? It's comprised of income. So there's the wage gap, which is greater for Black women and men and, you know, women of color in general, compared to white men. So first there's wages.

Then there's homeownership. So there's a gap in homeownership. There's a gap in assets that are like investable assets and cash on hand, like liquid assets. There's a gap in every single indicator of wealth. So there's a lot to tackle. I think financial literacy is huge. Like I was never taught about money and my father's white. So this is not a race thing. And he's also an economist, but like, I don't know that a lot of families talk about money in general, but I know black families specifically, I think we can do better with financial literacy. I think culturally,

again, we talk about ideas that are never challenged. You know, a lot of people think that the way to wealth is by becoming an athlete or a rapper. But first of all, your odds of making it there are so, so small. And then even if you make it like to the NFL, the average career is like four years. Like what are you going to do after that? So I don't think there are enough conversations in the community about these things. There are many other paths to financial stability. And then leaving something to your kids.

I think that's a huge part of the wealth gap is inheritance. You know, I remember my daughter asking me once, cause she's very interested in money. I'm gonna send her your way one of these days. She is like obsessed. Rich bitch in the making. Yeah, absolutely. She is going to send her your way one of these days. Yes. She's like obsessed. Rich bitch in the making. Absolutely. She is going to be an entrepreneur.

And she asked me, how do the richest people make their money? And I didn't know the answer. So we Googled it. And I was surprised to learn that the single biggest source of wealth for the richest people in the country is inheritance. Like the idea of the self-made millionaire, of course, millionaires, billionaires, they exist. like the idea of the self-made millionaire of course millionaires billionaires they exist but the richest people in the country most of them got their money through an inheritance because

that's how wealth is accumulated over generations and generations what did she say to that she was like well mom well you know she was a little disappointed because i think she wanted to know how you make money how do you get rich but it was was eyeopening that like, we're not starting from the same playing fields, you know, like there are people who were starting like way ahead of the game because of their parents and their grandparents and their great grandparents. But then we looked at self-made people. And that was interesting. Cause like Oprah, of course, is on the list. I'm like, you know, she's, you know, she's a journalist and a Black woman. I was very happy about that. Like Kim Kardashian was on the list. So we were able to,

most of them were entertainers, then there were some business people. So that just gave her a sense of what types of industries make money. Yeah. And, you know, part of the racial wealth gap includes the investing gap, right? So you broke that down into several buckets because each one you can zoom in and say, well, why is there this investing gap? I mean, there's a general investing gap for women, too. Now that the pay gap has narrowed slightly, there's this investing gap where just all of women's money is like sitting in our checking accounts. But they're also connected, you know, so if you have a wage gap and as a black woman, I think we make 58 cents on the dollar to white men, then how much money do you have left over to invest? If you're making so much less, now I got to save and invest too,

and I'm just trying to get by on 58 cents on the dollar. So it's all tied. If homeownership was restricted for our grandparents and great-grandparents, which we know it was, the federal government was not backing loans for black neighborhoods. This was federal policy. You could not get a loan in certain neighborhoods, whereas people in white communities could get a loan. How are you going to buy a house with all cash? So if you haven't had a home appreciate or pass down to your family for generations and you can't pull equity out of that, like where's the money for investing coming from?

So it's all connected. Yeah. And when you guys did the math for how much you were getting from these investment properties, did you find that investing in the stock market or other kinds of investments would yield you more? Yes. But like I'm now I'm kind of risk averse, whereas in the past I've just been kind of like takes money, make money, you know, like a little more reckless. But now, like I said, you know, I'm really concerned about my kids and their future. So when I did the compound interest calculator, it was like five or 6%, which, I mean, you tell me, I think that's pretty

modest of a return, but that's based on if we just sold it, took everything that, you know, after taxes, after everything took that money and put it in something low risk, I found it was going to outpace the appreciation on the home. And again, it's all projections because who knows how fast or slow the home is going to appreciate or, you know, we don't know what's going to happen. We couldn't have predicted COVID. But that was another thing that really inspired me and like encouraged me is that like everybody's guessing all these analysts, their projections will be way, way off. And I'll be like, oh, Analysts, their projections will be way, way off. And I'll be like, oh, they went to Wharton and they were still wrong.

Like, they're guessing. There's so many that are wrong. By the way, it's really hard to beat the market. You know, a lot of people have great publicists and say that they do. But it's really hard to beat the market. And by the way, the most important days in any investment are the days you buy and the day you sell. Right. And that's with real estate, too. So like your house is only going to be as valuable as somebody is going to pay for that ultimately. And so you can make all those projections, too. But yes, the stock market

over time, inflation adjusted will yield seven percent and then you don't have to deal with folks heating oil. Yes. Yes. So, you know, I still have a lot to learn, but I feel like now at least I have kind of a knowledge base to be able to absorb more because before, like, I didn't even know what a reasonable return was. Like, I don't know what I would have guessed you would get in the stock market, like 20% year over year. Like I probably thought that. So I just have a lot more information to then make smart decisions. And by the way, that's the best way to, you know, teach your kids financial literacy. They watch you. Yes. Yes. And I try to build those lessons into everything. Like we were

at the store and my daughter wanted something, she wanted to buy it. And I said, okay, but if I buy it for you, it's going to be considered a loan and you'll have to repay me with interest. So you can wait until we come back next time and you can bring your own money or I can buy it for you now. And she was like, well, how much is the interest going to be? I was like, oh, it'd be like a dollar over the next week. And she decided to wait. She was like, no, I'll just bring my money when we come back. So I'm trying to like, I'm not being stingy. I'm just trying to like build these lessons. So she understands the idea of interest. If you borrow money, it's going to cost you something. And then she did it with her brother. He wanted something and she was like, well, I can give it to you, but you're going to have to pay me interest. I love this. I love that

so much. Does she get allowance? So we are now starting to get to the point where we're contemplating paying her for certain things. I don't love the idea of paying kids for things I should do anyway, but I do really want to teach her about money. So wages seems like a good way to start. Do you let her negotiate it? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, she, I had a tweet that went viral. She was about seven years old. She said, I want the tooth fairy to pay me a hundred dollars for this tooth because I really liked this tooth. So she negotiated with the tooth fairy because she was had this like bond with this particular so we did negotiate we i hope she's wow this the tooth fairy negotiated with her for a couple nights back and forth and she got more than she would have if she had negotiated she got like 650

for that too but going right for teeth is like two dollars oh my god i didn't see that that's amazing i did see something else on your socials that I wanted to ask you about a little while ago, your hesitation around taking opportunities in the beauty space. You said that you were afraid about doing a beauty deal because it might affect your journalistic credibility. You said, quote, never mind that I had spent 10 plus years in the field covering everything from riots to wars to elections. I feel like the world only gives you space for one box. But regardless, you didn't let the world put you in that one box. And you've been taking these amazing opportunities in the beauty space. I love your videos. I love your content. I watched till the end. You are

stunning. You do stunning work. Can you please tell me a little bit more, though, about that moment that you gave yourself permission to be more than one thing. You know, it really has been against like stubbornness, because I know that my career has suffered to some degree, because of my insistence on always having this, like my hand in the beauty space in some way, whether it's a podcast, or because it does affect your credibility. That's a commentary on society. It shouldn't be that way, but people think that pretty girls can't be smart, smart girls can't be pretty.

If you're interested in makeup, you're shallow. There are a lot of these ideas around that space. So I've had to hold onto that for purely self-preservation. Like this is my joy. This is the thing that lights me up this is what I would be doing if I could do whatever I wanted to do on a day if I had an empty day a free day I would go shopping for makeup and then I would come home and play with it like it's the thing in the world that makes me happiest so I have just been insistent on holding on to my joy And that's really all it's been about me. I wish I had some like grander answer, but I wasn't going to let it go.

I love that. Hold on to that joy. It's priceless. Joy is so key to just being a whole human. All right, money superstar. So we end each episode with a money tip listeners can take straight to the bank. Now that you are a pro. Hardly. I'm still a beginner level, but you are my financial godmother. So I thank you for the lessons you've given me. Anytime.

And now if you could please pay it forward, what piece of money advice would you give some of our listeners today that they could take straight to the bank if maybe there are a few steps behind you? I would say put everything on paper, every detail of every account, and don't be afraid, even as awful as it may look. I promise you it was awful for me. It was so stressful. I would get like anxious about it before I knew I was about to do our finances, but there's no other way. The only way out is through. So dig deep, find some courage, put it on paper and get to work. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And thank you

for ringing the alarm, for sounding the bell, especially as it pertains to women, for repeating the same thing a million times, because we need to hear it a million times before we actually hear it. So just thank you for what you're doing. You're keeping it real. You're spreading the kind of knowledge that really matters to people. Money really matters. I love you. Thank you. Love you too. Thank you. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Levoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even

have a one-on-one intervention with me and follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make. Thank you.