Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - On Birkins and Knowing When to Walk Away with Sofia Franklyn

Episode Date: August 6, 2023

Originally aired 8.12.22 Sofia Franklyn (the host of Sofia with an F podcast, co-founder of Call Her Daddy, overall GOAT) is on the show to talk about why she walked away from Call Her Daddy; famously, before her former co-host cut a $60 million deal at Spotify. In this era of the Great Resignation, we are more empowered than ever to understand— and ask for— our worth. Sofia tells you how. Plus, how to get the best ROI on your bae (Birkin anyone?!).

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

Hey guys, are you ready for some money rehab? Wall Street has been completely upended by an unlikely player game stop and should i have a 401k because you don't do it no i know you think the whole world revolves around you and your money well it doesn't charge for wasting our time i will take a check. I got a whole school check. You recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin. Today, Sophia Franklin, the host of Sophia with an F podcast and co-founder of the Call Her Daddy podcast, is in the house.

As we talk about today, she famously left Call Her Daddy after money-related contract disputes. And then shortly after, the Call Her Daddy co-host Alex Cooper cut a massive $60 million deal at Spotify. In this era of the great resignation, we are more empowered than ever before to understand and ask for our worth. Today, Sophia is going to tell us how. Sophia, welcome to Money Rehab. Hi, thank you so much for having me on. Do you need money rehab? I need a certain kind of rehab. I don't know if it's the money one, but I think we could all use a little money rehab here and there, you know? I totally agree. Your podcast is so addicting and

hilarious. I found myself just not being able to turn it off, which I think is cool. Sophia with an F, if you don't know, is all about removing taboos around sex and mental health. Yay. That is awesome. You've done some major, amazing work around normalizing conversations around these topics brought up by your own life. And I have to say, I feel like you're a sister from another mister because we're all about normalizing taboo money subjects. So I think there is a shaded part of our Venn diagram. I'd love to ask you about OnlyFans and sugaring because I think is the shaded part of the Venn diagram between money and sexy time. I love that. I'm here for it. Let's go.

Okay. So OnlyFans, we've talked to some women on the show who have made some serious money on OnlyFans. We even had a congressional candidate who did a bunch of campaigning on OnlyFans. It's a split platform as far as public opinion. But what do you think? as far as public opinion, but what do you think? I find any kind of sex work extremely empowering. I mean, I think that using your sexuality, I mean, I actually do it in a way, right? To get ahead. I don't have an only fans account, but I talk about this on my podcast all the time. this on my podcast all the time. If I need to be flirty or use my sexuality to get ahead in my career in any way, shape or form, I think it's totally valid. And I think it's completely okay. Obviously, OnlyFans is like the next level of that. But I think that it's really empowering at the end of the day. I mean, women are already

at a disadvantage when it comes to the workplace, right? Yes. The gender wage gap, the gender pay gap, the gender wealth gap is absolutely real. Do you have an OnlyFans? I do not have an OnlyFans. Just out of all of the things that I want to do and the next steps I want to take in my career. OnlyFans isn't that at this time. But ask me in a couple of years and maybe I'll be on there. Yeah. It's not out of the question. No, no. So how about sugar babies? With respect to empowering versus degrading,

what would you say? Same answer to sugaring as OnlyFans? Yeah. So this is such an interesting question. And I actually talked about this. Short answer, no. I think sugaring is great and empowering too. Where there's an issue is... It's called the hierarchy of hoeing. I did not come up with that. My friend did, which is hilarious. Wheezy from horrible decisions. It's another great podcast, but it's basically where we're kind of judgmental about the kind of sex work happening, right? Like, Oh, it's not okay to overtly transaction. Someone pays you monthly on OnlyFans and maybe you show your vagina. Can I say vagina on here? Yeah, of course. Right. So that someone might say that's not okay. And then that same person might say, well, if you're just dating a really wealthy dude and

like, you know, he pays for your rent. That's completely different. And I kind of think that's like such bullshit, right? At the end of the day, you're doing something sexual and getting paid for it, getting compensated. So I'm all for sugaring. I'm all for OnlyFans. Well, I wanted to ask you your opinion around these subjects because you're so opinionated. You say what everybody is thinking. And I love hearing your thoughts on it. Because your show deals a lot with sex and sexuality, do you get some of this criticism? Would you put yourself on the hierarchy? Yeah.

I've thought about this before. And I think, yes, I would say I do a version of sex work. Absolutely. I talk about sex very graphically. Nothing is off limits. I'm sure someone has gotten sexually aroused at some point listening to the show. So, yeah, I would say I do a version of it. Do you feel like you get criticism for it? Right. Nicole, I had to shut that question out because it's like, so yes, I get criticism

all day, every single day I will get a DM or a comment or something. Um, and that's just the public. I mean, to this day, even my mom and some of my family members, even they will, my mom, I've been doing a podcast for four to five years and my mom will still sometimes call me and say, did you need to be that explicit when you were talking about a blow job or did you need to say this and did it at a, so yeah, I'm getting criticism on all fronts constantly. What do you say to your mom? Nicole, this is a thing. The amount of times that I have begged my mom, please do not listen and only listen. If you can have effect, then when she comes at me for anything, I'm like, where have you been for the past four to five years? Like this isn't a new

thing I'm doing. I would think she'd be used to it by now, but. It's hard to get used to your daughter talking about anal or bullet jobs or whatever. And so I hear her on that, but you've also grown a lot as a podcaster over those four to five years. And, you know, as you've grown, of course, you've evolved and you talk about anxiety. you talk about other things beyond BJs. So do you think there's some progress that's been made over the time that you've been podcasting around, you know, talking about sex or more explicit topics? Or do you think it's the same kind of shock and awe? I've definitely evolved. And so when I listen to episodes or like

I hear clips from episodes I did when I first started, sometimes I'll be like, please rip my ears off. I'm going to stab my eyes out, take me out of my misery. But you know what? It's all about progress and not perfection. And I think 100%. And I think I used to do a little bit of the shock value thing, right? Because not a lot of people talk about sex. So it was like, how graphic can I make this blowjob explanation? Now that I'm older, I'll still talk about a blowjob. But like you were saying, Nicole, same episode, I'll go off about anxiety, mental health, even sometimes finance, things like that. So definitely I've evolved. Thank you for pointing that out. It's not like every episode is just audio porn. So I don't want anyone to

think that. You absolutely have. I am relatively new to the podcasting land. You are like a veteran in the podcasting world. Before Sophia with an F, you co-founded and co-hosted Call Her Daddy. I missed all this drama, truthfully. Like, I had to catch up on it. Question I asked Morgan, one of our amazing producers was, is it call her daddy? Like we're calling her daddy or are we calling her actual daddy? Like, no, we got that question a lot. It was so it's this empowering thing because in the bedroom, there's this whole thing with calling the guy daddy. And we're like, no, we're calling her daddy because she can dominate in the bedroom and the boardroom and everything else. Love it. Love it. Okay, taking it back, but also maybe call her daddy. Yeah. Okay, got it. Okay, I don't want to get

into the nitty gritty of all this stuff because it was drama and chaos and like you can Google it if you want. So I want to focus on the lessons that you've taken out of it and how you, like a boss, have moved on. For any listeners, though, who might not know, can you tell us the departure from that show and your story from it and what you've learned? Uh-huh. 100%. So I was working in finance and this opportunity presented itself. Wait, you were? Hold on. I was. I did. As was.

Yes. See, that's the thing. When I say finance, people are like, oh, and she knows this and she's amazing with numbers and da, da, da. I'm not. It was a very low level job, but it wasn't like one of the top finance firms. That's how I got from Utah to New York. Right. So it was like an investor relations or... Yeah. I worked on a team of financial advisors and I was studying for my series seven. That never ended up happening, but it was a low level position.

But again, it's hard sometimes to get hired at those places. And it was a hard job to places and it was a hard job to keep. It was a hard job to keep. Also, let me just put that out there. That's a big deal. Thank you. So, um, I was doing that and then I started a podcast just on a whim with my roommate and best friend at the time. And it was really after four or five episodes, we blew up on the internet. We were just posting clips. A company called Barstool asked us to review. They asked and have us do our podcast under their umbrella and their company to which we said, yes. Um, at the time I was getting paid double what I was getting paid at the finance firm to talk shit for an hour a week on a, on a microphone. Okay. Not to diminish podcasting

because it is really hard, but I mean, cubicle nine to five just wasn't really me. So I jumped at that and the podcast, I think within six months to a year blew up even more than it did before. It was the top female comedy podcast in the world. And then there was some drama that happened and I won't get into too much detail, but basically I felt, and my co-host at the time felt we were getting underpaid at that time. We were also as business partners, just not aligned at that moment in time. And so I decided to step away and start my own podcast under my own media company, Sloot Media. The podcast is called Sophia the Neff. And yeah, that's kind of how it happened. And again, the only reason I bring this up,

because to me, it's a story, an amazing case study of knowing your worth, as you said. And I think there are so many listeners who write into the show asking for tips on negotiating, a job offer, getting a raise. So I know that your story is going to be really valuable and likely resonate with them on another level. So what advice would you give to somebody who feels like they're being underpaid or undervalued at their company? I would say I have two pieces of advice. One is no one is going to fight harder for you than you are. I think a lot of times people are either scared or they're passive and they don't want to go up to their boss and ask for a raise or ask for their worth. And I get it. It can be scary. And especially as a woman, it's even scarier in some ways. But no one, your boss very likely is not going to go to you

and beg to give you a raise or beg know, or beg to give you a higher position or whatever than the company. So that's, that's my first piece of advice is you are going to get yourself farther than anyone else is going to do for you. You know, no one's going to care more about your career than you. No, they're not. They're not. And then my second piece of advice I would say is I knew how much we were worth, how much I was worth. And if I would have just rolled over at the first negotiation, it would have been a completely

different scenario for me. And I'm so happy that I ended up fighting, fighting, fighting, and not just giving in to my boss or whoever it was telling me, no, you're going to have to fight hard. Sometimes it's not just as easy as asking for a raise. People will tell you no. Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like

no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride

Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. Now for some more money rehab. And how did you know your worth? And what did you think that was? Or was there a period that you were just grateful for having a funner job than you did making more money? You know, I came from Utah. No one in Utah is working in entertainment. They're probably not talking about sex the way I was. And so I didn't really understand the entertainment industry when I, you know, signed on to the company and signed the contract, whatever. It wasn't until later on where I started to ask people around me, mentors, people who just understood the industry, people who had been working in the industry, which I then had access to because I was living in New York.

And I just started asking people and it was made very apparent that we were not getting paid what we should have. And would you have said your worth came from your audience, from your talent, from the timing, from a combination? How did you figure out how to price yourself, I suppose? Yeah. So I think that once we were top of the charts every single week, if I'm going to be completely honest, I think that was a huge indicator. Ding, ding, ding, ding. What's, you know, how much money is coming in? Obviously, I think the direct correlation

between our listenership and our worth, that would have been the biggest indicator, which you can sometimes tell by the top charts. There's a whole algorithm that I'm not going to get into because I don't understand it. But that was kind of when, you know, light bulb moment. Okay, let's see what's happening behind the scenes. Yeah. Do you feel like when you started your own company and then did you approach your deal for Sophia with an F differently after this experience? Very differently. So now I own my intellectual property. That was fucking huge. And so I think, you know think in understanding your value, this podcast, and Nicole, I'm sure you understand this very well, is it's a lot of work, but the type of podcast I was doing was very personal. I'm

talking about my sex life, my personal life. I'm giving it my all every single week. And it's just the numbers weren't adding up, you know? Yeah. I mean, trial, error, learn, grow, rinse, repeat. And by the way, like having, wishing you had a lawyer, a look at it, you did the best you could with the information you had. Like I've signed crazy shit when I was younger and I was just grateful to have it. So, you know, it, it happens. Right. I at least knew, okay, getting paid double for talking on a microphone for an hour a week is a way better deal for you than this nine to five, you know, we're getting paid half. I knew that. So that maybe that's where finance helped me. But as far as this new company and my new show, I went into all of the negotiations in a way better headspace, way more knowledgeable.

And I think that's... A lot of times, that's just how it goes. You learn as you go. Rarely do you know all the information right off the bat. It's just like you said, a lot of trial and error. And if you ever do, that's probably a miracle or likely not true because you're all still learning. I mean, you kind of got your MBA at the school of hard knocks, really. Yeah, exactly. And I think you can only learn so much in school, right? A lot of it is being out there. And yeah. And it's not really like a ladder, like a career ladder. I think of it more of like rock climbing, not that I've ever rock climbed, but like, or rope swinging or something like that. I mean, you've had, it's been all over the place, but inevitably it's going to go farther.

It's just been a little bit of a zigzag. 100%. I always say success is not linear. And I love that. Yes. I mean, I found in my career that so often the issues that make me feel like the world is ending and my work is totally falling apart were actually the catalyst for some of the most amazing outcomes I could have ever

imagined or foreseen. What do you think some of the most positive outcomes from that zigzagging have been? Yeah, I mean, there was definitely a silver lining to the whole thing. Again, without getting too into it, it was a really, really hard time in my life when that happened. And it took me a while to get 100% back just even mentally. But I think the silver lining is at a very basic level, you went through some shit girlfriend. So the next shit storm that's coming your way, you are going to be way more equipped, just, you know, my mental tenacity way stronger. And I think that is a huge silver lining there. But I also think it forced me to learn and to step out of my comfort zone and to speak up in the most public fucking way.

But that in itself is a huge silver lining. I think I'm going to be way more of a badass in every business deal negotiation moving forward. Yeah, because you've weathered that storm. I mean, I want to give you a major shout out because these types of deals are difficult and these sort of things are hard to get through and can turn somebody off to an industry altogether. But instead, you push forward. You created something new from scratch, which I imagine took so much strength and courage. And you turned it into a smash show. So I hope you've taken that time to

pat yourself on the back, sister. Thank you so much, Nicole. Okay, you just made my day. Yes, I definitely have given myself props. And I think the silver lining is just going to keep getting bigger and bigger and more apparent as time goes on. Sometimes it takes a minute to see the full silver lining when something like that happens. Of course, you can be hard on yourself when you're in the eye of the storm. And you had perspective very quickly, all things considered. So not only do you know some of the crap that will come, you're like, I've seen you before because it will inevitably come back up again. But also you've had so much success that that I think, especially when I'm hiring people,

I see you've had a track record of success. You've done it once before. So not only can you do it again, but you could do it better with all those lessons. Yes, I can do it better. Yes, you can. Can we talk about your book? Yes, we can talk about her. Oh, what's her name? Miss B. I'm trying to figure out how obnoxious I can possibly sound right now. Not at all. We've talked a lot about how Birkins are actually great investments. They appreciate over time. Thank you so much for saying that, Nicole,

which is how I got the Birkin in the first place. I had a very good pitch to the guy that got me the Birkin. And I said, listen, better investment than stocks. Okay. That's, that's what I think. I've done my research. Nicole, you can tell me yes or no. I think the next president you should ask for, you know, some index funds or maybe I bonds. Okay. Honey, I'd like some serious I bonds. Okay. Those are inflation bonds. That's fucking hot. So sexy. Right? I'm asking for that for Valentine's Day. Fuck the lingerie. You know what to get me, babe. But yeah. And so I turned 30 and he got me the bag and it's been great. And maybe when she

appreciates and value, I'll sell it, which is another really cute thing. I'm sure you would love that. But yeah, she she yes, Missy. Absolutely. I don't know about appreciate depends on how you use it. But she's like a bond. She Yeah, she definitely holds her value. It defies like all the rules of appreciation and depreciation, especially, you know, with material items, which normally go down in value. Speaking of material items, your merch is adorable. And so I don't know if it was unintended for the finance double entendre, but it works for this show too. So cross promo time. Tell me about how you came up with it. Yes. So I did think I was, first of all, it's called, I have options. I'm wearing the tank right now. Um, and this whole, I have options set stemmed from a tick talk that I released that went viral. And basically the TikTok in a nutshell was how to let a guy know you have options, send yourself a shot at the bar or when you're on your first date with this guy. So he knows there's other admirers, whatever. I did not realize that all of these news outlets were going to pick this up and write articles

about it and lose their shit over it. It was a very, it was a very not calculated move on my end, but I don't know, the daily mail, New York post, uh, released all these articles kind of, I wouldn't say they were like the, the nicest, the nicest reporting done on me, but you know, girl sends herself shot at bar to show she has options. And I was like, I've done, this is another silver lining. I've done this once in the media. I'm going to do it again and I'm going to own my shit and I'm going to slap that slogan on some clothes. And there we go. Yes. Yes. I think it's such a boss move. Right? Yeah. Sometimes when people are saying negative things about you, sometimes you just fucking you slap it on a t shirt, you own it. And you're like, absolutely. Yes. Total boss moves. Yes. I think that that's the ultimate sign of empowerment when you can take something

that hurt you and just own it i remember going to a bookstore i think in union square in new york when my second book came out boss bitch actually and i was signing them like as you'll write your many best-selling books i'm sure in the future, you go into the bookstore and you sign stock and then they put a sticker on it. So they give a good placement for free, which you normally have to pay for. And then people can't return it because it's signed. So lots of good things come out of it. So I was signing a bunch of books and one book I came across had my face crossed out. And I like my heart sank. I like oh my god this is terrible somebody hates me so much they hate my face they don't like all of these things all these mind fuck went in in my head and then i was like oh my gosh i have to buy the book and i have to hide it and i hope

nobody ever sees it and then i was just like you know what i've gone through enough shit at this point i'm gonna take a photo and put it on Instagram instead. I love that. I'm going to say to whoever did this, thank you. You motivate me. I fucking love that you did that. And it's why would someone hate your face on your own book is what I don't get. They have so many issues. They need their own problem and I can give them one of mine if they're lacking options for problems. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. If you're feeling inspired by Sophia, check out Money Rehab episode 56,

how to get a raise you deserve without costing you your job. I've linked it in the show notes. I've linked it in the show notes. money rehab team michelle lands for her development work katherine law for her production and writing magic and brandon dicker for his editing engineering and sound design and as always thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all