Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Recovering from Financial Abuse

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Money is power; while not having money can bring feelings powerless. This shows up in toxic or abusive relationships when one person— maybe a romantic partner, or even a friend or family member— uses that power as a force of control.  This episode is all about how to recognize, and overcome, financial abuse. To help us understand this topic, Nicole talks to two experts Gail Tiburzi Buck and Rebecca Oppenheim of NextOPP Search— an executive search firm that donates career coaching to a survivor of domestic violence for every candidate hired: Hire One Help One. To read more about Gail and Rebecca's work, click here: https://www.nextoppsearch.com  If you or a loved one is in an abusive relationship and needs help, click here: https://www.thehotline.org 

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

Hey guys, are you ready for some money rehab? Wall Street has been completely upended by an unlikely player game stop and should i have a 401k because you don't do it no i know you think the whole world revolves around you and your money well it doesn't charge for wasting our time i will take a check you recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin.

Money is power. We know this. Having money gives you the power of choice, while not having money often takes choices away. This shows up in toxic or abusive relationships when one person, maybe a romantic partner or even a friend or family member, uses that power as a force of control. It's sadly more common than you might think. So in honor of Domestic Violence Awareness Month in October, today's episode is all about how to recognize and overcome financial abuse. To help us understand this topic, I'm talking to two experts, Gail Taberzi-Buck and Rebecca Oppenheim at Next Stop Search. And just a note before we go any further, because this episode

does cover the topic of domestic violence, please do take care while listening. Let's get into the conversation. Well, Rebecca and Gail, welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you. It's great to be here. Thanks for having us. Let's start with you introducing yourselves. Can you tell our listeners about the work you do at Next Stop Search? So Gail and I are the two co-founders of Next Stop Search. We are a national recruiting agency. We're women founded and we're actually B Corp certified. We became certified in 2019. And we are built on a one-for-one model. So inspired by companies like Tom's and Bombas, who have done it in the CPG space, we're actually the first company to do it in the service space. And what that means is for every candidate that is hired through our for-profit recruiting services, we donate career

coaching services to a survivor of domestic violence that's working towards financial independence. And so that program is called Hire One, Help One. I know part of your story was the discovery that financial abuse and domestic abuse are intertwined. Can you first define financial abuse and then describe how you've seen financial abuse exist alongside domestic violence and abuse? Yeah, so financial financial abuse can take on many forms. It's really another measure of control. And that's what abusers tend to use to to really isolate and keep control over their victims. And that would include many different things. It could

be damaging someone's credit without them knowing, taking out loans and leases in their name so that if they ever wanted to leave and go out on their own and rent an apartment or lease a car or get a job and have a background check, their credit's destroyed. And that's a way of them not being able to do that. It can be controlling the bank accounts, not having their names on anything. So they have no idea what is in the account, no access to cash or funds. In fact, the majority of survivors that leave a relationship have less than $10 in their pocket. Another measure of financial abuse is not having your names on any assets. So if you're going through a divorce, you have absolutely no way of regaining any of the things that you helped build in that relationship or acquire. So there's lots of different elements to it, but it is a very, very powerful tool for abusers and the way that they control their victims all the time.

Ninety nine percent of the time, in fact, that is the statistic. Yeah. According to the National Network to End Domestic Violence, financial abuse occurs in ninety nine percent of domestic violence cases. Can you give us a sense of what those demographics look like? I mean, in general, domestic violence sees no boundaries, right? So women are more likely to be victims of domestic violence, but it happens to every gender, every race, every socioeconomic, every educational background. You know, we work with nonprofits in New York City and Manhattan and Fairfield County is a very wealthy area of the country in Connecticut. Down in Charleston has very different demographics. And we see the same thing across everyone that we work with. So

it really it sees no boundaries. Who do you think is most affected, though, by financial abuse? I think women are more likely to be impacted by it. And women that don't have jobs or? You know, it's interesting that you mentioned jobs. The research that has shown that women's jobs are at jeopardy if they're in an abusive relationship. So whether they have a steady career to begin with, a lot of times that can slip away and you might not notice things happening. It happens very slowly. It can be as simple as your partner suggesting that you don't work a full-time career. Maybe you stay home with the kids he is providing or he or she, whoever might be that your partner is providing a very financial stable life. And so all of a sudden, then you have

left the workforce. It might be harder to get back in. Or perhaps you're not finishing the degree that's necessary to have the career that you want. Or perhaps because you are in an abusive relationship. I think there was a recent study that 64% of victims felt that they could not concentrate and perform at their best at their job because of said abusive relationship that they were in. Many times you're sabotaged at work. You're not interviewing at your best. It's a whole multitude of reasons that can kind of impact your career. And as we know, having a steady income and having a career is one of the best ways to reach financial independence. So it can be a slippery slope. Not to mention the emotional abuse that usually goes along with this financial abuse.

So confidence in what you bring to the table, what kind of your value, what you have to add to the workplace or to a job is usually destroyed. I mean, so much of what we do with the one-on-ones is really just helping the survivors look at their resume and identify the skills and the value that they bring to the table because they just don't believe it, even though it's there. I mean, we have worked with survivors that have two master's degrees and were ahead of marketing before they got into this situation. And they just, their confidence is so damaged,

they can't imagine that they could ever possibly do that again, or that any organization would want to hire them. Are there any other research insights that illustrate whether domestic abuse is more common in married couples or unmarried couples? Of course, you know, I ask this because once a couple is married, unless there's a prenup, the finances become much more difficult to parse. You know, I think in this day and age where marriage isn't necessarily the requisite for a partnership or relationship or a family, it would be really hard to define that. The term is actually IPV, interpartner violence, because like we said earlier, it really knows no socioeconomic bounds, no gender boundaries. It can be any partnership

or relationship that two people are in where one is controlling the other. And the number one thing to do is make sure your name is on everything, right? If you buy a car together, if you have a house together, your bank accounts, you want to make sure that your name is on everything, right? If you buy a car together, if you have a house together, your bank accounts, you want to make sure that your name is on everything, that you have access to everything that you're sharing. And the second thing that's so great is pulling your credit reports at least annually. It's free. It's easy to do now, especially after the pandemic and how much things have been impacted. You know, keep an eye on accounts that might be opened up in your name and fraud that might be occurring. You know, it's the smart thing to do at this point so that you don't find yourself on the other end of trying to reverse all of these actions, but really being proactive.

It's always a good idea, if I could just add to it, to keep a credit card in your name, something separate. If you can keep a bank account in your name or at the very least, keep your name on the family bank account or the partnership bank account so that you have full authority and access to funds if you need that. I'd love to double click on the first point, though, having things in your name. I've seen some issues after divorces and cases of financial abuse and financial infidelity where the bills were under the woman's name. And again, this women are more commonly affected by this in a romantic relationship, but those bills were not paid. So then their credit was screwed in another way. So either they didn't have credit because nothing was under their name or their credit was

screwed because the bills weren't paid. So what would you suggest for that? Yeah, it's not enough to your point to just have your name on the assets. You also have to be plugged in. You know, I think particularly with women, because they're usually working and have children, if the partner says, well, let me take that off their plate? Like, oh, I don't have to monitor QuickBooks anymore. That's one less thing I have to do. But we have to force ourselves as women to stay plugged in and to be aware of all of the financials, particularly the ones that are attached to assets with our names on them. Yeah, absolutely. I hear anecdotally that unfortunately, the women who are in abusive relationships, the biggest thing standing in their way of leaving is money

and the fear of whether or not they can support themselves, which was a big basis for my last book, Miss Independent, to help women do just that. So if they are seeing some of these red flags, what's the first thing somebody can do? I would say reach out for help. I mean, there's advocate organizations in the communities. There's online organizations. I mean, it is just with anything in life, it's so hard to have an objective point of view

when it's happening to you. And so if you can reach out to someone in an organization that has training and they can, you know, give you that feedback, look at it from an outside lens, I think that that would be really validating to whoever is experiencing this. Some organizations like the National Network to End Domestic Violence, Some organizations like the National Network to End Domestic Violence. There's the hotline.org is great. The Allstate Foundation actually fully focuses on the financial a shelter or an advocacy group where they have legal help. They can point you to budgeting classes. They can help you finish your degree. They're just wonderful people who are at these organizations looking to, like Gail said, you know, maybe switch things around and look at it in a different perspective and really advocate for you. Because, you know, as we mentioned before, the biggest thing that gets impacted in these relationships is your

confidence and your self-worth. And so to get these people on your team is really the best move. Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit.

Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft

limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Now for some more money rehab. Yeah, and we'll link, of course, with you guys to get all of these links and put them in our show notes. Let's talk about people who are leaving these types of relationships. abusive partner, what should they do if they have access to protect their finances? Should they do like a credit freeze or any of those sort of practical measures? Yeah. So the shelters and the domestic violence organizations that we mentioned earlier, particularly at the local level where you can pair up with a counselor, they have a step-by-step process that you can go through that's safe and organized and is

associated with a timeline that makes sense. Because remember, there's physical abuse involved as well. So you want to make sure you are doing these things in a timely manner where you're not subjecting yourself to more abuse. I would say contact these organizations. They are amazing and they have all of this spelled out and can handhold you through the process and help you make all the necessary preparation to actually leave the relationship. There's really no one size fits all in this because everyone's at very different safety levels. There might be kids involved and every single case is so different. Sometimes visa status and green cards

are at jeopardy within this. So it can get really messy. And that's why so many of these organizations have legal advocates on hand as well, because there's just a lot you need to know to make sure you're taking the steps in the right order and also that you're not creating any red flags that might make your situation more dangerous than it already is. It's a great point. I'm assuming the justice system steps in in some cases. I'm sure there are elements of financial abuse that cross into criminal territory that

you guys have seen. Absolutely. I mean, if you think about identity fraud, if you're racking up bills and loans and ruining someone's credit in their name, I mean, there's definitely a line that you cross at some point. Leaving an abusive partner, as you guys know, is undoubtedly stressful, difficult, traumatic. I'm sure that there are instances where it's impossible to really make this financial plan before leaving so say somebody leaves their partner and then tries to figure out the financial piece afterward in addition to calling these organizations is there something that you would suggest for them to do first i think the first thing that i suggest to do because they've seen it all and they've worked through so many different options of these cases. And if you can get out and don't have a dollar to your name, whether you have children with you that you need to bring with you, whatever it might be, they will hopefully

have transitional housing available for you that is private, that no one will be able to know where you are. So, I mean, these really are your advocates in your community that can help you with step one. Then they can put a plan in order where there might be other things involved. But that's really the best place to go are the people who are the experts at this within your community. Absolutely. And it might take a couple tries, unfortunately, because it is daunting to even approach some of those organizations. Is there something they shouldn't do, though, like get a payday loan? Or is there something that is tempting, but is something that you've seen make it even worse?

I would suggest that you don't do anything that your abuser might be able to see, right? Because if they're alerted at any point that you might be trying to get out, I just don't know what type of a situation you would be in and if your safety would be at risk. So it's really important to think through it, I think at that level as well. All of these websites that we mentioned and advocacy groups and shelters and things like that,

you'll actually notice as soon as you go to their website, there are escape buttons just and they remind you that this can be in your browsing history. So it's important to have that kind of view on all of your actions in order to keep yourself as safe as possible. If someone is listening and either recognizes some of these warning signs in their relationship or a friend's relationship, let's say, or has even seen the financial abuse happen outright, what can they do to help their friend? What are some of those conversation starters to have? Yeah. So, you know, this is something that Rebecca and I talk about quite a bit. We are actually trying to put together a program that we can go to human resources departments with to help hopefully convince organizations to educate their employees on domestic violence, the signs to look for,

and then also let them know that this is, you know, that they can go to a human resources representative and that they will not be discriminated against and that they could trust that this would be a safe haven for them to have this discussion. And then certainly, especially now post COVID, where we have these remote work environments, you're not necessarily coming into the office every day. So that also is just another layer of isolation. every day. So that also is just another layer of isolation. So I would say that the personal relationships that you have sometimes could be the only lifeline. And if you recognize that you have a friend or a colleague who may be in this situation, just letting them know that you're, you're there for them, if they need to talk to you about something, or if, you know,

for them, if they need to talk to you about something, or if, you know, they would like access to some resources, you would be happy to help them with that. Or, you know, that just, just letting them, reminding them that you're a safe space for them. Isolation is one of the first thing that happens to anyone that's in an abusive relationship, whether it's being away from your family, your friends, seeing them less. So if you see this happening to one of your friends, like Gail said, being there for them, you know, anything that makes them feel less isolated can be such a lifeline. And I'm sure you guys have seen it all and heard all the stories. Can you share one or two of them with us to maybe color inside the lines of some of these boundaries and parameters that we've set? So perhaps somebody could see themselves or a friend in that story? I mean, one of the women that I

remember very clearly that we worked with, she was working full time, she made six figures. She was pregnant with twins at the time, and all the finances were kept out of reach of her. So it was almost as if she was kind of blindfolded within her own family. She didn't have access to bank accounts. She really didn't have a clear picture of how their money was being used. And so it was time she finally got the courage. Actually, the statistics is that women often leave seven times an abusive relationship before the one that sticks. So she had tried to multiple times when she finally got out on her own and it was time to find a job on her own to support herself and her children as a single

parent. She really had no idea what she needed to get, where she could start, how to budget, you know, what kind of income, what kind of bills. And she was actually one of the women that we worked with as far as putting together a resume. She had amazing strengths. She was an incredible individual. We saw her actually land a job and she's out on her own now. It's been, I think, three years since we worked with her and we still keep in touch. So that was a very concrete example of someone who was a high earner in a very, honestly, somewhat privileged life, it seems, from the outside and yet was completely blindfolded as to what was happening in her own house and it made it very difficult for her to go out on her own

abuse is such a loaded heavy term of course is there a point at which you would call some of these actions abuse or uh would you say that some of them are just incompatibility? Where is the line? I always like to think of the word control, right? I mean, is someone controlling your finances? Like if you needed to get away tomorrow, would you have enough freedom to do so? And you can look at different areas of your life and think about who has control over who I go out with, what friends I socialize with, what text messages I send, what TV shows I watch, whatever it might be. I think it starts to cross the line when control starts to be vocabulary that you're using to describe things as opposed to, like you said, I think, I think it can get blurry with abuse, especially when like emotional abuse comes into play, but that seems to be a more

black and white line that can at least be used with financial abuse is control. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. An important part of protecting yourself is protecting your finances. Even if you share a bank account with your partner, have a second one for you and only you. I hope you'll never have to worry about financial abuse, but if God forbid you do, having your own money will give you your power back. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers are Nikki Etor and Will Pearson. Our mascots are Penny and Mimsy.

Huge thanks to OG Money Rehab team Michelle Lanz for her development work, Catherine Law for her production and writing magic, and Brandon Dickert for his editing, engineering, and sound design. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all.