Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Science-Backed Hacks for Networking

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Originally aired 03.10.23 In Nicole's experience, networking and building relationships has been the single most valuable resource for her career. But let's be honest: networking is hard, and not always fun. That's where Jon Levy comes in. Jon is a behavioral scientist specializing in connection, and today he tells Nicole science-backed hacks for successful relationship-building. Want the kiddos in your life to become money masters? Check out Greenlight, the best money app and debit card for families (and get one month free!): http://greenlight.com/moneyrehab Investors: want to get a 1% bonus on your investments? Check out our sweet deal with Robinhood at http://robinhood.com/mnn  Is mental health a resolution for 2024? Get 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp at: http://betterhelp.com/moneyrehab  Want one-on-one money coaching from Nicole? Book a meeting with her here: intro.co/moneynewsnetwork 

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your

reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. I do a lot of hard things in my job. I mean, we all do. At the beginning of my career,

one of the hardest things for me to master was networking. And sometimes I still find it really hard. I would be thrilled to spend my days at home on my couch with my dog, Penny. But networking, in my experience, is the single most effective tool for professional development. I mean, I wish when I was green in my career and finding my networking voice, I had John Levy in my corner. John is a behavioral scientist who is an expert on connection. I met him through an event series that he developed, which you'll hear more about in this episode. And his research is so useful for anyone working on their networking skills. So I sat down with him so that you could hear the insights from his research on how to make the most out of introductions to someone who could be valuable to your career.

John Levy, welcome to Money Rehab. I'm so excited to be here. Are you really? Yeah. Well, you know, I'm a huge fan of yours. And there are few people that are better at banter and fun conversation than you. So the moment you invited me, I was like, I'm clearing my schedule. I'm coming.

You're the best. Wow. The pressure is on. Yes. What does your tattoo remind me? 2 a.m. Because my first book was called The 2 a.m. Principle, which is nothing good happens after 2 a.m. except the most epic things in your life. True story.

So it's either you're at a pizza place being like, why isn't there anybody cute around? Or at 3 o'clock in the morning, right? Or you're in a dance off with Usher, but there's like really nothing. No in between. Yes. No gray area. Yes. The most important thing to live an exciting life is really the people you surround yourself with, right? And we know this, that you could go to like the greatest party in the world, but if you're with somebody who's really annoying, it's miserable. And if you're with the greatest people, but you're like even just sitting on a couch

having a conversation you're having a blast it's not what's on the table it's who's at the table yeah and i guess that would actually be perfect considering i've spent most of my life convincing people to cook me dinner which is i believe how we met that is how we met yeah that's what they call a tf in podcasting oh nice i'm i'm i'm happy i I didn't screw that up. You did great. Just to give some context to somebody who hears this, it's been 13 years, close to 300 dinners, over 2,600 guests, I'm guessing. And they come, you know this, we all cook dinner together with a catch. You can't talk about what you do or give your last name. And then you find out that you, I mean, who are some of the people that you've gone to dinners with?

Astronauts. Yeah, Nobel laureates. So many astronauts. Nobel laureates. CEOs. Artists. Like a whole eclectic bunch. I missed Bill Nye.

He's shown up. He misses you though. Always. Dr. Ruth. Yes. That was a good one. You have a whole smorgasbord. So like I got, I don't know how i got

the email originally um but it shows up in the inbox that's like influencers dinner and worst name ever it is the worst i named it oh my god it's so bad it's i named it 13 years ago where as a behavioral scientist i was studying what influences our decisions. And then Instagram comes out and ruins everything for me. I'm actively searching for a new name. Kevin Systrom. Yes. Stand down, sir.

You should get a new name. Yes. And I should have Kevin Systrom pay for the consulting firm to cover it. He owes me punitive damages. It was like, I don't want to go to this was my first thought. This sounds cheesy. Like this is an Instagram type party or like Instagrammable moments. You're expecting a lot of people in bikinis with avocado toast and like a pinkish wall. It feels transactional. It feels cheesy. But I was pleasantly surprised. You go into the influencer's dinner. Can I explain how it works? Oh, please. It feels cheesy. But I was pleasantly surprised. You go into the

Influencers Dinner. Can I explain how it works? Oh, please. Go for it. Okay. So it's not like a secret. Your experience is very different than mine, right? I've never attended one. Certainly. That's right. So you go, if you're in New York, probably to John's house or some other sponsored. I think you've had like different ones at different locations. We have friends who sometimes host it. My pregnant wife doesn't necessarily want like 100 people in the house all the time. Super fair. Take off your shoes at John's house is what I remember.

And you learn that the house rules are don't talk about what you do for a living. And I've attended a few of your dinners. And I actually and I talked about them in my third book. Oh, wow. Did you not know this? I have to give it to you. I tracked the progression of the dinners I went to by how well I could talk about things I wasn't doing with regards to work. And I could almost it almost served as a barometer for my balance,

my life balance. And so I found that when I was struggling to have a conversation, because so the house rules don't talk about what you do for a living. You make Mexican food at different stations. You go around like guacamole, whatever. You talk to different people, just not about what you do for work. And then you sit down and everybody guesses what you do. That's my least favorite part of the dinner, by the way. It feels judgy and like judging kind of I got club promoter, Instagram person. It was weird. It definitely felt like to me a little judgy in that sense, which was fine. I will point out, though, when I let the guests when the guests come in and I introduced what the activities I say as we're cooking, each of you has a job. Do you know what that is? And everybody says to cook or something like that.

And I say, no, it's to judge each other silently because you want to come up with like guesses for people. Now, here's what's what I'll say is kind of interesting for most people. Maybe it wasn't enjoyable for you, is to have people give a perspective of you independent of the way the world already sees you. And so I think it's one of those things that's useful. It may not always be flattering. After running all these dinners, the biggest and most unexpected thing I learned is that no matter how successful people are, they generally don't feel like they fit in. Olympian knows that it was like one thousandth of a second or whatever it was. And next time they might not even make the

team or the CEO knows that that quarter they did great. And the next quarter earnings might be terrible and they'll lose their job. And what's really clear to me is that no matter where I am in the world, if it's, you know, battling a bull in Pamblona or something like that, or getting a bunch of executives to cook a meal, all of us really just want to feel like we should do it. Like we have friends in that we really belong. And so I think if I kind of have a superpower, it's to give people a space where they can kind of feel connected to each other and make real friends. And I'm really proud of that connected to each other and make real friends. And I'm really proud of that. You should be really proud of it.

So if somebody isn't invited to your dinner, what should they know? How can they use those principles in their own networking, network building, if you find there is a difference, I do, between building a network and networking in their own lives? So the first thing I'd say is nobody network and networking in their own lives. So the first thing I'd say is nobody actually likes networking, right? In fact, when you look at the research, people's emotional response, like their implicit response is feeling dirty and wanting to wash. We don't have that experience when it's about making friends. And that's because it doesn't feel transactional. So the first thing I'd say is instead of networking, go make friends. And people make friends over common ground. So it could be that you have friends in common, so ask for lots of introductions. It could be activities like you like soccer or something

like that. Let's go do that. You like axe throwing. That's popular these days, I guess. There's a whole lot of these places. Yeah. Pickleball. Yeah. Pickleball is like having a resurgence right now. It's amazing. So all these things, that's like the way that you can actually find common ground or if you're religious, stuff like that, yoga, whatever, right? The reason I also emphasize asking for introductions is that there's this really weird characteristic of human behavior. And we think that if I take you out for an expensive dinner, you will like me more and trust me more. Or, hey, can I take you out for coffee in exchange for picking your brain? That's not really going to help when the person you're asking could just buy a coffee chain, right? Like they don't really.

I dislike the picking your brain phrase so much. Why? Why do I hate it? It feels invasive, probably. It's like surgical almost. I don't like it. Can we have an alternate? Yes. To get your insights. Okay. Your perspectives, your wisdom. Okay.

Better. Your guidance, your mentorship. Sure. If you want, I could continue to Thoris size. I don't know what the proper conjugation of that is. Now, here's what's funny. That stuff doesn't work. You cannot buy the relationship with food

or coffee. What you can do, though, is the exact opposite. And it's called the IKEA effect. And it says that we care more about our IKEA furniture because it's a pain in the butt to assemble. So anything we invest effort into, we care about disproportionately. So my first recommendation is find ways to get people to put in small amounts of effort into your relationship. is find ways to get people to put in small amounts of effort into your relationship. So instead of asking to take you to like coffee, I'd say, hey, I loved your books. I read them. They're fantastic. Is there another author that you really recommend I check out? Then once you invest the effort into me by answering that question, then the next thing I do, you'll be more likely to actually fulfill on. It's called stacking.

But if you're asking, if you want to get to know me and then you're asking me to do something for you and I don't even know you, why would I want to do that? If it's a small enough lift. Okay. Which is like, oh yeah, my favorite author is X. Done, right? That's like a quick email to clear. The classic example is asking for directions. If I ask you for complex directions on the street, you're probably not giving them to

me. If I ask you for the time, you are. Then if I ask you for the directions, you almost always give them. Because once I'm viewed as worthy of effort, I'm viewed as worthy of more effort. And that's why at the dinners we cook together, because it's the invested effort into one another that causes the bonding to happen quickly. And so I recommend people go on hikes or do fitness classes together or volunteer work or build something, whatever it is, do some art class or write a song, whatever, right? That shared effort is what actually will create a bonded experience, make you feel like you

know each other disproportionately well. I dislike small talk. How do I navigate that? talk. How do I navigate that? What is the best way to break the ice, the proverbial ice, or to start a quick conversation to get to know somebody, especially if you're feeling extremely awkward asking for a friend? As somebody who spent his entirety of his 20s and 30s feeling awkward, I've put a lot of things to the test. The first thing is to look at what you want from the conversation. The human brain really responds to novelty when something stands out as unique or different. And we're all kind of sick and tired. I wrote a post about this,

that if anybody asks me for who are the three people you'd most want to have a dinner with of all time, like, come on, everybody's asked that question. Let's move on. Ask something like wildly more unique. Which speaking of, I dislike weather or small talk so much. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, it's raining. Yeah, duh. Why do people do that? Because they don't have anything else to talk about.

I realized this one day when I was at a soccer match. I was watching it and a woman walks up and she's like, oh, I'm looking for so-and-so. I was like, oh, I don't know who that is. Oh, he's my agent. I'm a model. And I realized that she wasn't saying that to be pretentious or anything. She just didn't know what else to talk about. And I get it. We as human beings are awkward. Our social skills have gotten worse and worse generation by generation. We kind of peaked in the 1950s where we were involved in social activities all the time. And then the TV entered the house and our social skills decreased along with post-war sentiment. So there's this whole

process. We have less friends than ever. In 1985, we had about three besides family. By 2004, 19 years later, we were down to two. Now it's even less. Like our social skills have gotten worse, right? And so just to get back to the whole thing on like, what do you, can you ask? I ask crazy questions. I, you sure do. So I'd say, let me actually ask you a question.

I want you to think for a second, all right? Imagine there's a fire in your home after saving your family, your pets, right? You sure do. And an ex-boyfriend found it on a used book website and it was actually signed by him, which is crazy. Holy cow. He passed away when I was 11. So I probably grabbed those. So I think I have a similar answer. Like my dad passed away last year and there's just one painting of his that's like the pinnacle piece. And I would go back for that. Like it's too big to carry, but like if I had

in the magic of this scenario, it would be that because it like he put all four of us through school on his art and like, it's just magnificent and it means the world to me. And so I think like questions that kind of get to the heart of these things that pose interesting scenarios are really effective because now I know a whole lot more about you than, and if you don't feel comfortable, you could be like, oh, my photo albums, right? Like it's an easy out for people. Or here's like another kind of silly one. If we were to one day become like really, really close friends, what's like something I should know about you now? Like what will annoy me later? Yeah. Give me a preview.

Or maybe like, hey, I really love this sports team. I get crazy. Don't sit next to me during those. But it's stuff that gives you an insight into people's lives. Oh, was I supposed to answer that? You could if you want. I was going to say that I have this very odd like OCD about food genres. And so buffets make me very nervous because I don't believe like tiki masala and like chow mein and like should be anywhere. They don't belong together. It's disorganized. Like I have a whole organizational thing with food and it needs to be the same, which is why I actually appreciate your dinners because it's like one consistent theme. Except the cake at the end. I don't know. I don't love that. I've never eaten it. Maybe we'll switch to churros.

It's flan. Flan seems right. Flan. Flan and churros. Churros are also right. But in that, like in margarita vibes, like I just feel like it needs to be a through line. Now I have to figure out. For the meal.

Yeah. Anyway, next one I'm at, I'll bring my own. Oh, sure. B-Y-O-F. Bring your own flan. You can probably just have like three or four of these questions in the back of your head that you. Give us a couple more if we're having and I won't answer all of them. Okay, good. When's the last time you sang in public

you can't say something like that if you're just meeting somebody that which is why people say like the weather stuff oh it's so hot you know you can't go in you can't go in hot to a conversation like what would you hey john nice to meet you what would you have played at your funeral i i disagree completely i think it has to do with just the sentence and a half that you say right before that. If I say, hey, so you might know I'm a behavioral scientist. I was just examining a collection of kind of wild questions. Mind if I ask you one? Or you could just say I read this article. Sure. Or I was listening to this amazing podcast called Money Rehab. And have you ever heard, oh my God,

she's so good and blah, blah, blah. I love this. I love where you're going with this. Of course you do. But why do you leave the occupation part out? Because people have- Because it's such a New York thing to like... So here's the issue. When you reach that level of status in general, right? Broad strokes, people are after five things constantly. I say it's steam. They want your social cloud because knowing you or being around you gives them status. They want your time, your expertise, your access, and your money, especially as a money expert. And so if everybody's always after something, and it's associated with your status, most commonly your

job title or whatever it is, then by eliminating that, they can't be after it. And so then what's happening is you're forming these bonds, cooking, independent of the status that you have. And so you actually form friendships. In fact, I used to know what people did when they walked in, and I knew that there was this Nobel laure laureate coming and I'm terrible with names. So as a general rule, the Nobel laureate's always the oldest person in the room because it takes time to prove your theories, right? And so I buddied up with the oldest guy in the room and like, I'm spending all this time with him and I am just not enjoying it. He's like this curmudgeony old dude. And then we go around and I find out that he wasn't the Nobel laureate. He was a Pulitzer Prize in history writing or whatever it is,

and was just an old curmudgeon-y man that I'd never want to talk to again. I hope he's not listening to this. Well, I don't actually care because I'm not going to hang out with you anyway. Anyway, point being, at that point, I realized that I don't want to be that person. I want to make friends. And then if they I realized that I don't want to be that person. Like, I want to make friends. And then if they do something that I really love, fantastic. If not, that's OK. Hold on to your wallets.

Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still

very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated, if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to

change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look

guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. And now for some more money rehab. And how can you develop some of that connection in this post-pandemic pandemic, like more URL than IRL life. URL versus I've never heard anybody say it like that. Is that an original like you? I've said it for a while. I'm going to take credit for it. I love it. That's so clever. Let's say what we're really talking about is how do we connect and build trust at distance, right? And to understand that, I think it's important that we understand what the base unit of trust is. It's called a vulnerability loop. And it works like this. Person one signals vulnerability, right?

So I might say, I am so stressed. I'm about to have, this is all true. I'm about to have my first child. I've never changed a diaper. I have no clue what I'm doing. Oh my God, I'm freaking out, right? So in that moment, I've signaled vulnerability. If you make fun of me or ignore me, trust will be reduced. Oh, it's like improv. You have to say yes and. Exactly. No, that's absolutely it. But if you said, John, that sounds really tough, that's the yes. And I know how you feel. I'm launching this company. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done. I might not be able to associate with the child, but I'm definitely learning a ton and feel a little bit out of my element. Doing my own birth. Yes. Bringing to

life a company. Baby. Business baby. The moment that I've seen that you've shown vulnerability the same degree as me, trust has increased to that higher level. And now it gives an opportunity for another vulnerability loop. So the way we naturally build vulnerability loops is I'll pass you my book and you'll take it, right? That's a loop. I put myself out there to pass you something and you accept it. Or you say, hey, John, can you pass me a pencil, right? Or if you drop some papers, I help you pick them up. That stuff is super natural in person. Those are all vulnerability loops. At distance, when we're doing things on URL versus IRL, the issue is that we have to be super intentional about it. So if I'm on Zoom with your teams or whatever, right? And I see your background, I'd be like, oh, that's awesome. You have a money rehab sign. Where'd you get that?

So I'm using the environment around us to begin to open those vulnerability loops. Or if you say, you know what the first thing that we say when we get on those calls, it's either like, where are you? Or I guess it's, can you hear me? But like- I was just going to say, you're on mute, John. Yeah, you're on mute. So it's either, how are you doing? Yeah. Or it's, where are you? So if you actually answer those questions the real way, then you actually open and close vulnerability loops. So if you ask John, how are you doing?

And I say, oh man, I'm super excited. I have this kid on the way. I'm a little nervous. I've never changed a diaper. Do you have any kids? I mean, do you have any advice? So suddenly you've opened the loop by asking the question. Most people are expecting, oh, great, great. But I actually use it to show you some of my humanity,

right? In a way that, and here's what's really important, it doesn't damage my credibility or my status, right? Like me not knowing how to change a diaper, literally everybody's been there at some point. Whereas if I was saying like, oh my God, I just got booked for this thing. I don't know if I can do it. And they're like, we're hiring you for the same thing. Not a good vulnerability loop to be sharing in that environment. Yeah, I think the pandemic made the question of how are you something that people more readily answered, honestly. I think you're right. I think especially at that peak of being stuck at home, They're like, I'm just burnt out. Like, I'm anxious. You'd hear that a lot more.

Yeah, because it was a throwaway. Like, how are you? Fine. How's the weather? Yeah, don't even joke about that. I will not be answering that. Check a weather app. We can talk about other things. I'm so annoyed with it.

Like, if anyone listening now, please don't ever ask me about other, feels like nails to knock board. How do you maintain relationships after you've created them? You're very good at it. So there's a few things that I do. One is I constantly invite people to be introduced. And so it causes me to be in touch with others, regardless of if I'm going

to meet up with them or something like that. You introduce other people to others in your network. When I meet somebody, I say, I want you to know that my superpower, I'm not the person with piles of money, but I am. Don't get me wrong. I make great money, like all of them, right? But I'm not a billionaire. What I am, though, incredibly wealthy in is relationships. And so if there's anything you're ever dealing with, I want you to know you have an open invitation to ask for an introduction. If there's medicine, entertainment, whatever it is. And so I spend probably like 20 minutes a day just typing out introductions to people. And that does a couple of things. One is it does that very selfish thing that it gets you closer

to me. And two, I love the idea that it creates a new future for people where I don't have to do any more work, right? Like if I have a kid, I have to spend the next 18 plus years caring for it. If I make an introduction, suddenly your life is potentially changed without me having to do any more work. I love that. Do you ask people before you make the intro? I normally double opt-in. Is that what make the intro? I normally double opt in. Is that what you mean? Like I check with both people. Normally, yes, except for very specific people that I have an open invitation because it's always like they've come out so far ahead from the intros that they're like, you could

literally introduce me to a serial killer. I'll still be happy. The other thing I do is I keep a list of people in different cities. My team handles it for me. So I say, oh, next time I'm in LA. And then a few weeks before, my team passes me the list and then I reach out to all of them to see who wants to grab coffee or something. The third is I host these salons, which are these large gatherings, I'd say pretty large, on the very low end, 60, on the high end end over 120. And we invite mostly former dinner guests to come, but also their family, friends, whatever it is. And we have kind of three famous speakers come

and surprise people. So it'll be Bill Nye or when the Roots will perform or whatever it is, right? And we explore ideas and have conversations and it's super fun. And most recently, one of the ones we did was not a New Year's. So it was on the 30th rather than the 31st. And it started at eight and had to end before midnight. So the introverts didn't feel obligated to stay out late. Smart. Yeah. You got to build for introverts. Otherwise they don't show. Optimize for us. Yeah. Extroverted introverts, as my shrink tells me. Yes. But you never pay people to do those speeches. Never.

So how do you ask for favors? You specifically, but then how can you broaden that out, zoom out, and give this advice to any listener who might be nervous to ask for a favor that they feel it's transactional or awkward? First and foremost, I'd say ask for more favors regardless. The reason is even if you don't need it, I'm going to take it slightly sideways to explain this. When I was in my 20s and early 30s, I thought that people would like me more if it seemed like I had all my shit together. Like if I looked like I was so polished that I didn't need anybody then you feel like oh there's you know hero and shining armor that I could always rely on and people would offer to help

me and I'd be like no no it's okay I've got this hold my beer you know like and what I didn't realize was that they would constantly open vulnerability loops signaling hey can I offer you some support and I'd literally be smacking their hand away. And it did so much damage to my relationships. Like a bid in a relationship. A what? A bid. Tell me about this. Oh, this is like a relationship theory. You offer bids to somebody else. It's like this little

opening to vulnerability. Or like a break in a fight where you say, oh, like, I love you, my king or something like that. That's what I learned in one relationship therapy session. I hope my wife never refers to me as her king, but continue. Or like you fall on your sword or you do something to like extend a break in the chaos or the fight or something. That's fantastic. And then either somebody takes it or they don't. Yes. It's the same kind of thing. It's an opening or a vulnerability loop. I was really doing damage to my relationships. And that's because as a species, we survived not because we're like

fast or strong or any of that. Like we're kind of weak and awkward as far as animals go. Like look at just about any other animal and they're like graceful and fast and they have sharp teeth and claws and like they're made to survive. And we're kind of like these things that are born awkward or useless until our teens and then barely survive, right? But the reason that we've taken over the planet is that we are better at working together than almost any other species out there. And that's because we can't survive without each other. And so it's in the investment of effort, that IKEA effect, that actually causes us to care about other people. If you are not asking for favors, advice, and support, you are missing out

on the basic ability of human beings to connect. And if you think you are going to survive, you are going to make it, you are going to be happy without other people, you are going to make piles of money without other people, might be possible. It's very rare, but you'll completely miss out on the experience of being human. And so my biggest recommendation is ask for favors, ask for support so that people care about you. And reciprocity is critical. Nobody likes a taker.

Darwinism depends on you. Yes. We end our episodes with a tip you can take straight to the bank. Do you have one piece of money advice that you could give our listeners today? So there's this funny thing called the sunk cost fallacy, which is if you've already spent the money on something like Beyonce tickets, and it's a terrible storm out, and it's going to be a miserable experience, but you've already spent the money people are like oh no i have to make it worth it now don't get me wrong it's beyond of course you

want to go obviously but if you know the experience is going to be absolutely miserable who cares if you spent the money or not this is like a big problem for people is not realizing that just because you made a decision and an investment doesn't mean that you have to stick with it and the classic example of this was somebody asked Dan Ariely, a behavioral economist, should I divorce my spouse? And he said, I have no clue if you should divorce your spouse. But I'll ask you, pose the question in another way. Imagine you wake up next to your spouse tomorrow morning, but you're not married. You know everything that you currently know about them. You have the choice of either proposing to them or not. Do you propose? And if the answer is no, then either you need to do some work on your relationship or you need to get a divorce.

And that's similar to if you've made an investment and I ask you, okay, imagine you didn't own this stock today. Would you pay the current price for it? And based on the future outlook, do you think it's going to go up or down? And if the answer is no, then get rid of it and move on and do something else. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at moneynews and TikTok

at moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.