Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - The Business of Botox with Nicci Levy

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

Today, Nicole nerds out on the fascinating biz of Botox with Nicci Levy, the CEO and founder of aesthetics brand Alchemy 43. Yes, Nicole and Nicci get into everything you wanted to know about cosmetic procedures, but beyond that, Nicole and Nicci use the cosmetics industry as a case study to talk about crucial elements of any business— like, unit economics, marketing, patents, entering in a crowded market, and naming your business. Want the kiddos in your life to become money masters? Check out Greenlight, the best money app and debit card for families (and get one month free!): http://greenlight.com/moneyrehab Investors: want to get a 1% bonus on your investments? Check out our sweet deal with Robinhood at http://robinhood.com/mnn  Is mental health a resolution for 2024? Get 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp at: http://betterhelp.com/moneyrehab 

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I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no

maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits

apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Okay, I'll admit it. I have a fascination with the cosmetical industry. Show me a plastic surgery transformation video on TikTok and I'm going to watch it twice. But I'm not just in it for the before and after pics. I think it is such a fascinating business. Today, I nerd out on the business of Botox with Nikki Levy, the CEO and founder of Alchemy 43, an aesthetics brand specializing in cosmetic micro-treatments.

And yeah, we go down a rabbit hole of trendy procedures and Botox pricing, so for anyone else who has a guilty pleasure fascination with the world of cosmetic procedures, I got you. But if you don't share this niche interest, don't worry, Nikki and I cover so much more. In our chat, we use the cosmetics industry as a case study to talk about more important parts of any business like unit economics, marketing, patents, entering a crowded market and naming your business. Here's our conversation. Nikki Levy, I am so excited to say welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you so much. Happy to be here with you.

I'm happy to see you. When did we meet? I mean, pre-COVID. Yeah. So what is time? Yes. I mean, I think it's been like about four or five years, right? Yes. We met in New York. In the early days of Flatiron, our Flatiron store. Yes. And we actually did some book events at some of your stores, which was awesome. Yes, we did. So when you say store, you think of a clothing store or other things. Your store does not sell clothing.

It sells Botox. Yes, it does. Amongst other things. But yes, a lot of Botox. This concept is something that you innovated on. But I guess let's start at the way, way beginning. What is Botox? Botox is the brand name, as a lot of people refer to it, kind of like the tissue Kleenex analogy that's given. So Botox is actually the brand name for a medication called botulinum toxin type A. And botulinum toxin type A is a medication that there's a number of sources you can get it from. It's now farmed from plants in a certain part of Ireland, I believe, a certain type of plant, I should say. It's been used for over 45 years in human beings for a

number of different non-cosmetic conditions. So things like strabismus, which is a form of a lazy eye, blepharospasm, which is excessive blinking, cerebral palsy, anytime there's spastic muscle, Botox temporarily relaxes muscle. And so it will give relief to anything that is kind of spasming. And so historically it was used medically and clinically for a number of different conditions. And like so many cosmetic medications on the market, what starts to happen is they start to realize, oh, it's also smoothing the skin around the eyes when we're injecting it into the eyes, or it has this other benefit, right? It's kind of like with all these ozempic medications, it's like they were using it for diabetes and they were noticing an important side effect was that people were losing significant

amounts of weight from it. So I think that's how so many of these things come to market. And that's exactly what happened with Botox cosmetics. So it's been used in human beings as far back as 1978. And there's evidence to support before that as well. For cosmetic purposes? No, for medication purposes. FDA approved for cosmetic use in the US in around the year 2000, it was 2000 or 2001. So over 23 years now being FDA approved for cosmetic use, it was being used off label long before that as well. So it's been around for a long time. There's a ton of great data. It honestly is one of the most prolific medications of our generation for a number of different reasons and

a number of different resources besides the fact that it gives you a smooth forehead and makes you look young. Yes, sign me up for that. I've used Botox since I was in my early 20s. First for hyper hydrosis under my armpits because they're extra specially juicy, but also on my what are these thingies called? Elevens, your glabella. Yeah. In between my eyes so they didn't squint. But I have lived in 10 cities in the last 20 years and every city I've been to, like I went to go find the dermatologist plus plus, I guess. And it would always range like Botox sometimes was thousands of dollars. I almost had a heart attack the first time I got it in New York when I first moved there. But then when I lived in Atlanta, it was not $5, but it was really cheap. So how is it determined? What's the average cost of somebody getting Botox?

I would say it's evolved over time. And I think honestly, one of the most detrimental things, and Allergan will tell you this today. In fact, we just had a very senior member of their leadership team talking to our group about some of this historical stuff. But one of the things that the industry I think has done itself a disservice with is charging by the unit. So when you go in and you say, hey, I've got these 11s between my eyes I want to solve, that's your goal, right? That's your intention. Then your provider, presumably an expert at dosing you and giving you the right amount of medication, will then decide how much medicine you need in order to solve that problem. The problem with charging by the unit

is it sort of opens it up to a debate and a conversation that doesn't really exist in other types of medicine. It's not like you go to your doctor for antibiotics for an infection and you're like, I only want half of the amount, right? You just take whatever you need to take in order to solve the problem.

And so with this medication, which is obviously non-insurance based, so we're only using it for cosmetic use in our clinics is just the idea that, you know, we're going to take a look at your face. We're going to take a look at your musculature and anatomy and determine how much medication you need. And you might say, well, I don't want to spend that much. I want to get less. Right. I think we're really good at what we do. We're not magicians. We can't make the medication do something it's not able to do. So it's just a hard thing because I think at the end of the day, it should be about outcomes. It should be like, hey, just give me a smooth forehead. Tell me what that looks like for me. But the consumers have it in their head. And I understand why a certain amount of dose medication equals a certain cost.

And so it just becomes this debate and it becomes less about results and outcomes and more about the commoditizing of it. Like you're not buying a coffee, you're buying a treatment, an outcome. It's crazy. When you said that, I was thinking if I had a gash in my arm and God forbid, I went to the emergency room, I'd be like, you know what? I want 11 sutures, right? Can you only give me half of the dose or give me double? Yeah. Or you're going under and you're like, hey, anesthesiologist, I need like 50 CC. I have no fucking clue. Like what? Exactly. No, 100%. So to answer your question about pricing, usually about 90% of providers in the US do charge by the unit. So Nicole, you need 25 units that cost blank because we charge $15 a unit, right? There are some providers that charge per area. So they might say the forehead costs this much and it's kind of a flat fee for that area. And then there's some people that just

charge for the whole, the face, the treatment. You're coming in, you're getting your face Botoxed and whatever that means, that's the price, but that's largely not the industry. And the other thing is there are a few competitors on the market. Like I mentioned earlier, Botox is the brand name. So Botox is made by Allergan Aesthetics, which is a division of AbbVie and manufactured and distributed by them. That's the only place that you can legally buy Botox in the US as a provider. And then as you probably know, the market has recently become more competitive with other products on the market that are botulinum toxin type A from different companies.

So you may have heard of a product called Dysport. There's a product called Juvo. There's a product called Daxify by Revance. And then there's a product called Xeomin on the market. So there are other versions of Botox, if you will, that do have different price points, but more or less, you know, they're pretty close in price. And so, you know, we as providers of these products also have to raise our prices accordingly. Like when Allergan raises their prices for us, we have to make up the difference somewhere. And so that's why you kind of see this varying cost. And then as providers and distributors of these medications, the markets that we're in have a big determining factor. So to your point, like my rent in New York City for one location is three

times the cost of my rent in my Texas location, right? And so I have to cover my costs there. And as you know, things are just more expensive in New York because the overhead is higher on everything. So that's why you kind of see varying prices, I think, throughout the country. It's a weird way to get any medical procedure done by the unit, but I'm assuming it also helps you as a business owner to do unit economics. It's very clear. You're not just allowing the nurses who work for you to be like, cool, you want your forehead. Maybe sometimes it's I'm guessing. I don't know. A thousand units were probably based on what you're saying. Probably be too much. If there is that range, it's harder to run a business that way.

It's definitely cleaner on both sides, but it does make our jobs more difficult because we do get into very regular debates. The other thing that happens, this is such a weird thing. And again, maybe nuanced our industry. If you need more medicine, let's say you're there with your friend or your friend came in recently and got her Botox and then you're quoted your dosing and you're like, oh, I need more. There's this association in your mind where you're like, I'm worse off. I need more medicine to solve this. So I somehow look worse. And it has nothing to do with that.

But it does become this debate between the provider and the patient, which I think at the end of the day, everyone should be on the same side, which is give that patient best results. But then it becomes, I think you need this amount of medication. And you're like, no, I don't think I need that much.

My friend came last week and she only got this much. You know, it becomes this debate. So it does add complexity in that division where I think everyone's goal should just always be on best results, best outcomes. And sometimes it gets a little sticky with that dosing conversation. But ultimately, when you build trust with your clients, and I think when you have a reputation for being honest and doing a good job, hopefully you persevere in the end. But it sometimes can get tricky.

If you reframe it when I'm told I need more, I think of it as a positive because like I have such strong muscles, Nikki. Exactly. My face is just so strong. You're just super strong, yeah. When you think Botox, you mentioned Xeomin and Dysport

and these others that are basically the same thing, which by the way, when you say botulism, I'm like, what? Why did we decide to put botulism toxin or whatever it is in our face? That's a whole other conversation. But damn, have they done such great marketing. All of them are Botox. Botox. They really have.

Yeah. They also had a decent head start from the other companies. Don't quote me on this. I think the patent for Botox cosmetic use ran out like in 2017. So all these new products have just come since then. So there was about 17 years where Botox was the only player in the game. So I think that did give them a significant headstart. But I will take my hat off to Allergan and AbbVie.

They do an incredible job with marketing. They absolutely have cornered the market to your point. Like it's become part of regular everyday vernacular for people. I mean, I went to a play recently and in the play they were talking about Botox. Well, I guess when you go in for treatment, like I guess it's now on the provider to educate patients about other options. I remember I recently went in and I was like, oh, I need Botox on my forehead or crow's feet. You know, mama's getting older and all the things. And he was like, here's the Juvo and here's the coupon for it. And I was like, I like coupons. And he was like, no, no, it's literally the same thing. It's just in a different package.

So what do you think about the other competitors coming up taking market share? And what do you think about coupons for stuff like this? That word coupon does kind of hit in a way, right? Because I think in general, you don't want to discount injections in your face. You don't want to be on a budget with things that are sort of in this way so medical. But like any other industry, I mean, I think, first of all, I think we all as distributors and you all as clientele benefit from having other options on the market. You know, whenever there's a monopoly, then we are all at the whim of the boardroom at AbbVie when they decide, oh, we're going to double the price, right? And then we would have no choice then to double the price and then everybody kind of loses. So I do think that the fact that there

are competitors on the market is good for pricing and stability overall, because it does give options to people. I think they are all great products. I mean, the FDA has a very rigorous process that they put these companies through in order to get approved. So you can rest assured that when these products are finally FDA approved and come to market and available, they're safe and they're good. We offer other toxins. We offer Dysport at our clinics. We are still about 90% Botox.

And it really just comes back to, I think what we talked about earlier, just that brand strength. People want the tried and true. They want Botox. They want the brand name. It's like Coke and other generic products. People just know Coca-Cola and that's usually their soda of choice,

right? They just feel safe and comfortable unless there's a reason to switch. And so to your point, could that be financial? Like, oh, you got a coupon for it or you are not happy with your results for Botox for one reason or another, you're looking for another alternative. I think there's lots of reasons to try other products. It's kind of like hair shampoo for me. Occasionally, I'll be like, let's switch it up and do Dysport this time. It's just something to do. I'm still very, very happy 20 plus years later of using this product. I'm still happy with my results. And I don't feel the need to use something different. But certainly I recognize and can appreciate that other people want options. And I'm glad they exist. How did you then create this option for clientele patients, people who are in the market to get Botox or

whatever other cosmetic enhancement from you as somebody who's done it for many, many years? I have to where did you see the white space in this market to create Alchemy 43? You know, I started my career in beauty. So I worked always in cosmetics and skincare. I was a makeup artist in my early 20s. And I really grew up in the beauty industry and then made the jump into medical aesthetics. I actually was a Botox rep. So how I got into all of this is I worked for Allergan. From 2009 to 2012, I was the Beverly Hills 90210 Botox rep. And that was sort of my entree into this medical aesthetics world coming from the beauty, cosmetics and skincare world. And I felt like the thread throughout all of that for me was consumer intent.

It is a different thing to get Botox in your face versus get your makeup done or buying lipstick or getting a facial, but the intent is much the same. You wanna look in the mirror and like what you see. You're doing this to look and feel your best, right? There's sort of that feeling of confidence you get when you look in the mirror and like what you see. And I think if I really look back to my entire career, since I started working at a makeup

counter in college, I have been chasing that feeling that I give people when I can turn them around in the chair or hand them a mirror or show them their face after two weeks and say, look how great you look. Because I've seen throughout my career, there's this internal light that lights up from within when people look in the mirror and like what they see. And I feel what I've always felt like, and this is what gets me out of bed every day is when you look in the mirror and like what you see, you feel empowered. You feel empowered to go ask that person on a date you've been eyeballing, jump on that dating website, ask for that job promotion or that raise you've been wanting. The world opens up to you when you like what you see when you look in the mirror. And I think there's so little in life

that happens to us that we can control. I mean, just look at what's going on in the world today. This is something we each have power over for ourselves. For some people that might mean plastic surgery, for others that might mean contact lenses instead of glasses. For some people it might mean taking a yoga class. Like it can mean something different for everybody, but at the end of the day, there is just a feeling of empowerment and enlightenment that happens when you like what you see. And I think that's what it's about. And I found, and this isn't to say all other practices are like this, but when I was a

Botox rep, a lot of what I heard going on in these offices was people being told everything that was wrong with them. So you'd go in and you'd sit down in the chair, whether it was a dermatologist's office, a plastic surgeon's office, a med spa, or anything else, and you would sit and be told all the things that needed to be fixed or improved. And you kind of left feeling worse than when you arrived. It doesn't make you feel good. You may sign up, they may get your money because you're going to listen to them because they just told you all the things you need to fix. But it's not a great experience. And I just thought, what if we actually did this, but we actually didn't make people feel bad about themselves? What if we

came from a place of confidence and we came from a place of there's nothing wrong with you? Like you are not broken. You do not need to be fixed. You look great. You're already beautiful. There's something beautiful about every single person. Let's just take what you have and level it up.

Let's just elevate. Let's augment. Let's enhance. I hate words like improve or fix or transform. I just don't think that's the business we're in. And so that was really what drove me to start Alchemy43. I was like, there's a misalignment here of what we're trying to do and what people are feeling like when they're getting it done. And I just felt like there was a real opportunity to kind of think about it differently and reframe it. And that's really what I've been set out to do for the last eight years is just

reframe that way of thinking. Yeah, girl. And I will say just knowing you, you do put your money where your mouth is. I know you have asked guys out. I know you have that healthy dose of confidence, sister. It's true. I agree. And I think it does come from being able to do what it takes to look good and then kind of go and take life by the horns. Yes, I am not afraid to do what needs to be done. That's right. And I am not good at many things in business. I do think that I'm a pretty good namer, but Alchemy 43 is an excellent name. How did you come up with that? Thank you. I actually had a different name for the company. Initially, I was going to call it Spruce, like get spruced up. I was thinking of a word that

would sort of like, you know how Google became, oh, Google it. So I thought like spruce could become like go spruce or something. I don't know. I had this whole idea of what it was going to become. And I was very fixated on the name. I filed the trademark three months before I was going to open my first location and it got declined because there was another concept, a dermatology concept called spruce health. It was spelled totally differently that caused it to get declined. So I, at the very last minute, was trying to think of new names. I was so already married to this one name that I couldn't imagine of anything else because I'd been calling it that for so long in my head. And I was on a 10 o'clock. I had signed a lease. We're

starting to create signage for the location. We're starting to create a website. And it's like, hey, what's the name? But I had a list of 200 plus names. There was nothing that was resonating. And I came home from dinner with friends one night and I logged into Facebook and someone had quoted the book, The Alchemist. And I was like, alchemist, alchemy. And I just remember repeating that word in my mind. And then I typed into my Google browser, what is the definition of alchemy? There were two definitions that came up. It was a seemingly magical process of combination, creation and transformation. And then the second one was the study of chemistry that predates the periodic table that concerns itself with changing base metals into gold. And that just really hit. I got goosebumps head to toe. And I was like, that's it. That's the name.

And so I was very excited. And then I called my main investor and I was like, okay, I've got the name. This is it. And she said, that's great. And then I called my main investor and I was like, okay, I've got the name, like, this is it. And she said, that's great. And are there any numbers that are meaningful to you? Because, you know, there's a lot of numbers in brand names today that are, it's a big trend right now. And I was like, huh, not really. Like 17 is my lucky number.

Like, I don't know. And so she typed into her phone, how many muscles are in the face? And it was 43. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's it. Alchemy 43. I love it even more now. Thank you. I mean, it was a journey to get there. But then once that was it, I was like, oh my gosh, yes. It's just funny how things kind of take shape when you don't know how they're going to go. But yeah, that's how we got the name. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, We'll be right back. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high-quality local co-hosts

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One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then,

that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. And now for some more money rehab. When you opened the first location, you said you already

had an investor. What was that like going from being a rep and being more on the aesthetic side to now being a boss bitch? I literally went from being an employee to one of their biggest customers, which is kind of a fun story that not a lot of people get to tell. And I would be lying if I said there wasn't some sort of fun satisfaction from that. It's just a fun place to be. And yeah, I mean, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I literally knew that I had this business idea. I was very passionate about it. I believed wholeheartedly in what I wanted to do. I did not have any money. So I knew I was going to need capital. I had no formal business school training. You know, I have a communications degree from UC Davis.

I don't have a business degree. I'd never owned a company before. And I knew I need money to fuel this machine. I've got to sign a lease. I have to open a location. I've got to do a build out. And so I really didn't know where to start. I was not sure.

I was casually dating this guy who told me to go on mybusinessplanbuilder.com and write a business plan. I mean, I don't know if that website still exists. I'm sure if I saw the business plan today, I'd be mortified, but it got me there. I remember I was typing in sort of my ideas and my business plans and it was generating these charts. And I was like, oh, this looks pretty professional. So then I spent about a year on the legal side because I definitely understood having now worked for Allergan that there was like a big regulatory piece to this. And I needed to understand if I start this business in California, can I operate it in all the states in the US? Am I legally allowed to do that?

Can I do it in other countries? So I really had to do some legwork at the beginning to really just make sure that it was even scalable, that I could even kind of do that. And so that's really where I spent all my own money and really a good portion of a year getting everything set up to make sure that I could actually scale this business. And during that time, my healthcare attorney that I was working with pitched me for a story in the LA Business Journal. They were looking for innovative healthcare ideas or something. And he was like, oh, I'm working with this woman who's starting this business. I didn't have a

name for it or anything. It was just like me and my idea. And this article got published. And a friend took me to this woman's entrepreneur event in Santa Monica one night, I was just like tagged along with her. And the speaker was Tony Coe, the founder of NYX Cosmetics. And I was just really taken with her story. I mean, I was just sitting in the audience, I didn't know her or anything. And she was being interviewed. And I just really loved her story of how she started her company and how she eventually sold it to L'Oreal for $500 million. And she had talked about during her interview that she had signed a non-compete with L'Oreal and that she was doing some private investing. And so I thought, huh, I wonder if she could be my investor. I mean, I literally had no idea. And my brother who was in business school

at INSEAD at the time, we were talking on Skype and he was like, you know, you can email her on LinkedIn. I mean, I didn't even know you could email strangers on LinkedIn. I thought you could only reach out to people you knew on LinkedIn. So then I emailed her and I sent her that story from the LA Business Journal. And I was like, here's the story. You know, I saw you speak at this event. I was really taken with your story. Would you be open to meeting with me? And she met me for breakfast at the SLS Hotel. By the end of breakfast, she was like, I'm in. How much do we need to get this started? And so she was really the person who lit the way for me. I mean, I'm to this day, extremely grateful to her for her early belief in me and still kind of pinch myself that that all happened because really I was not qualified.

You know what I mean? Like I didn't have the resume or the pedigree. I just was passionate about my idea. And I think she probably sensed that I would work my ass off, which I have. And that's the kind of person you want to invest in, I think. You absolutely do. And I don't think anyone's qualified or ready to do anything as a new mom yourself. Who's ready for stuff like this? You just go ahead and do it. But damn, you picked such a crazy, complicated business.

It was brick and mortar. I can't even imagine all the medical stuff you have to deal with and the legal and the guardrails and what you can say and can't say. You stepped into a whole bunch of challenges. No, I agree. And I think ultimately, I mean, people say this all the time. Had I known everything that it was going to take, I mean, I don't know. Would I have done it? I don't know. I mean, who's to say, right? It's like, there just were so many things that I could not have even predicted were going to come up. And when you're in it, you just figure it out. I mean, what's the option? Stick your head in the sand, like you have to figure it out. So educate yourself as much as you can understand that there's no way you're going to think of

everything like there just isn't. And so you have to go into it with this feeling of like, whatever comes up, I'm going to figure it out. What was the craziest part that you couldn't have predicted of running an aesthetics bar for so many years? I mean, that first couple of years, I would say that really is the kind of learning moment. And I would say for most businesses in the first year, first of all, any one thing could have happened

that would have like ended me. I think after you get beyond a year or two, maybe into your business, usually there's not one thing that ends you overnight. But in the early stages, like everything is a huge deal because you don't pay your rent for one month, you might be over. There's things like that where everything has more meaning. And when I opened the first location, it was in Beverly Hills on Cannon Drive next to La Scala. It was a sublease. So I was lucky to not have to have like signed

a 10-year retail lease. I was able to get into a space for two years basically and figure out if this had legs. I mean, we spent about six months doing the build-out right after we opened our store and said, hi, we're here. We got a notice from the city of Beverly Hills to say, you have to shut down and cease and desist

offering services. And I was like, what? It was the most mind blowing thing because I had worked with the city to get all of my permits approved and all of my build out stuff. So I was like, where is this coming from? They were like, oh, we didn't know that you were going to be offering medical services. We don't allow medical services and retail spaces in Beverly Hills, FYI. And I was like, okay, well, I got all my permits and everything approved by you. Why didn't you guys tell me that? You could have mentioned it. It ended up being like a two year battle with the city of Beverly Hills to say, hey, I'm here. Like you have to let me stay here because they didn't want medical businesses in their retail spaces. Cause I was front and center

on Cannon Drive next to La Scala. Part of it stems from, they don't want Beverly Hills to have the reputation of being the plastic surgery capital of the world. Why not? I know. I'm like, well, guess what, people? I didn't create that story. It has a reputation for a reason. Yeah, it kind of is. Especially that area. What is it called? The Golden Triangle? Literally the Golden Triangle. Yes. I ended up persevering in the end, which was kind of crazy. But then I ended up not resigning that lease. So I went through this whole lengthy battle. I was at their city council meetings. I was getting petitions signed from local citizens.

And it became this whole campaign, which we ultimately won. And then I was like, OK, I don't think we're going to resign the lease anyway. You know, we opened three other locations in L.A. and we noticed that most of our clients actually didn't live in Beverly Hills. And so we sort of made the tough decision to not resign. But now I know if I ever want to go back, I'm good. So how did ultimately you get that done? Was it just going through

these boring city council meetings? Yeah, we had to hire this attorney who specialized in zoning and we had to make a number of proposals to them on how they need to clean up the language in their code because it was unclear. And so we were just able to ultimately get them to say, okay, you can stay. But we also found, and it was kind of interesting, some competitive concepts

that offer some of the same services actually came to these meetings in support of us because they were like, we also want to operate in this town. So we got support from interesting places. But ultimately, I would have never predicted getting that letter like two months or a month after I opened my doors. I don't think I slept for a week. I was like, my gosh, this is over. I'm done. I'm sure.

And it always feels that way in the beginning. Yeah. And having strange bedfellows is also unexpected. Marketing, I'm assuming there was also a lot of hell that you went through with legal guardrails around what can and can't be said for all this medical stuff. And it continues to be a challenge. I mean, first of all, the rules change all the time. And I think there's just more and more happening with the sort of regulation around this stuff. But yeah, I mean, with medical stuff, you have to

be really careful about what you say in your marketing. You can't make claims. So you can't say things like when you get semaglutide injections, you will lose five pounds a week. That's Ozempic, right? Ozempic, exactly. So you can't say things that sound like a medical claim unless you're FDA approved to say so. And so you have to be really careful with your language because you literally get flagged in their system and then it takes a while for you to be able to be unflagged. Are there crazy fees or fines too?

I don't think there's been any major fines, but they stop you from placing ads. So you're kind of fined in that way. I don't know another industry where every time you put an ad together, you have to basically get legal approval. So yeah, it is delicate for sure. And how are you planning on growing and scaling? You've offered since the inception, a bunch of other products, offerings. Where has it gone? Where is it going?

What have you seen? What are some of the growing pains as you've tried to expand that could be lessons to others? We opened the first locations in my hometown of LA. That is our heritage. So with that first location in Beverly Hills in 2016 to now three locations in the greater Los Angeles area. And that was really in my backyard. This is the place I've lived since after college. I know this area. I know the people here. I have a network. I have connections. And I will say it's really humbling when you try to take that to another market, because guess what? They don't know you in this other market. You're no one. You don't have the

connections. You don't have the network. It was pretty humbling to me to know. I mean, the first store I opened in New York was Flatiron in April of 2019. One of the things that was actually positive that happened there was I didn't realize how much reciprocity there'd be between LA and New York, how many people travel back and forth between the two and have friends in one place or the other. So when we opened in Flatiron, I was surprised at how many people knew of us already. So that was a positive. But I will say when we opened the four locations in Texas over the last 12 months, we didn't have that. People were like, you're who? We don't know who you are here. And it was humbling, especially over the last year and a

half, because we literally went from four to 10 stores in 12 months. So we literally more than doubled in size in a year after being around for four years before that or five years before that. So it was a lot at once. And I just underestimated the amount of in-person development of friendships, networking, community building. It's a community business. I mean, I've always known that this was a trust-based business, different than getting your nails done or your hair done or your eyebrows done. This is a needle in your face.

And there's a degree of trust that not only you need to have with your provider who's ever performing your service, but also the place you're going to for that. And I think in order to build that trust, it cannot be built quickly over a digital media. People want to see you. They want to meet you. They want to know who you are. They want to understand your values.

It's so funny because I think we're moving in such a technology-driven direction. I had breakfast last week and a robot delivered me my breakfast. This is the world we're in now. But in a business like ours, it is so important to humanly connect with people. As you become bigger and you have more locations, it only becomes more important. What, you know, what I've been doing is getting my butt on a plane at least once a month and going to Texas and meeting people and taking people out to coffee and hanging out in my store, meeting our customers, you know, spending time with our teams there because that's what it takes. We're getting involved in charities there. We're doing different events local to these

markets. And I think it's more impactful than any ad you could post, any billboards you could buy. The in-person connection is everything. And so that's really been kind of the nature of all this. I don't even know if I answered the question you asked. No, but I liked it. I went down a complete other path. Sorry. No, but the IRL stuff is so important, especially when you have brick and mortar locations, because we've long seen gone are the days of the big malls with, you know, the GameStops literally of the world. But in your space, it is this sort of hand selling type trust vibe that cannot be replicated URL. It's so true. It just can't. And I think

if you're lucky, people will associate quality with your name and hope that that means something. But I think it takes a long time to get there. I don't kid myself that we're there yet. We definitely have a lot to prove to the world still. And if it has to be me doing that, like myself, or bringing my providers along with me or whoever they know, whoever they need to kind of hear from. But it's about trust, you know, and going back to sort of the money piece of it. It's like we're asking people to pull out their checkbook or their credit card, right, and pay $800 to $2,000 with us. It's a big ask per visit. And, you know, when you're spending that kind of money, you expect quality.

You expect great results. And you should. you expect quality, you expect great results, and you should. I've recently gotten down this TikTok rabbit hole of cosmetic tourism and people going abroad to get cheap medical procedures. What's your take on that? So I get it. It has become exorbitantly expensive in the US to get cosmetic surgery. I remember back in the day that an average facial cosmetic procedure was $10,000. Now it's like 40, $50,000. So I understand how someone might go, gosh, that's literally unaffordable for me. And, you know, if I go to the top doctor in Turkey for this procedure, I can spend a fraction of that and fly myself there and back, you know, listen, it's nothing against these places that are

offering it at a lower price point. What I would say to people is do your homework. these places that are offering it at a lower price point, what I would say to people is do your homework. Luckily, we live in a world where reviews are plentiful. And unfortunately, people tend to share negative stories more readily than they share positive ones. But that allows you as a consumer to go in with your eyes wide open. And I think the biggest mistake you could make is sign up for surgery anywhere and not do your homework and not really hear from patients that have had surgery there at that facility with that physician and really understand if the majority of those patients are happy with their results and had a good experience versus didn't. I'm not here to judge how you pursue these measures. I just think, gosh, safety has to be at the forefront of it all.

Like saving a buck is saving a buck and this could be your life. It's so tricky because we're money rehab. We want to help people save money and be smart with their money. And also like I didn't want a coupon for my tattoos. Right. Like I'm good paying full price. I'll pay for the quality there. Yeah. We end our episodes, Nikki, by asking our guests for a tip listeners can take straight to the bank. What's one thing that people can do for the health of their skin so that they don't have to spend money on Botox? If you're on a great skincare regimen, and when I say great skincare, I know you mentioned that earlier, you don't need to buy the premium products for every single aspect of your skincare,

like clothing, like fashion nowadays. Pick a couple of things you want to invest in a great moisturizer, like a really high end, beautiful, super supple moisturizer. That's great for your skin or an active retinol or a product like that. You can use cleansers, you know, you can use affordable products for most of the rest of the things, choose a couple of things you want to invest in and really invest in those kind of like your Chanel scarf with like your H&M outfit, right? Like choose the one thing you're going to invest in. I think the absolute same truth applies with skincare. And then with Botox, I would say start preventative Botox early. You shouldn't need a lot of units. It should be a relatively inexpensive endeavor and it really will prevent you from having to do more invasive stuff later on in life and spend more money.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make. Thank you.