Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - The Cost of Surrogacy Pt 2: The Surrogate

Episode Date: July 1, 2022

This is personal for Nicole: after going through a miscarriage last year, her and her fiancé are considering surrogacy. In this two-part episode she follows the money trail of surrogacy with Teo Martinez, CEO of the surrogacy agency Growing Generations. In this episode, they discuss the financial implications for the surrogate. In Part 1 of their conversation, they discussed the financial implications for the intended parents. To learn more about Growing Generations, click here: https://www.growinggenerations.com/  Fertility Benefits Resources, Courtesy of Growing Generations:  Each organization can assist prospective clients to identify if their explorer has benefits currently and also help begin the conversation if their employer does not provide benefits.  Carrot Ex.) Netflix, Stich Fix Requesting fertility benefits at your company Making Donor Assisted Reproduction Safer - Mitera, Carrot & Growing Generations Progyny Ex.) AT&T, Facebook Talking with your HR Department WinFertility Ex.) Disney, HULU WinFertility Resources

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

Hey guys, are you ready for some money rehab? Wall Street has been completely upended by an unlikely player game stop and should i have a 401k because you don't do it no i know do you think the whole world revolves around you and your money well it doesn't charge for wasting our time i will take a check you recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin.

In yesterday's episode, you heard the first part of my conversation with Tio Martinez, CEO of the surrogacy agency Growing Generations. In that episode, we went through the breakdown of costs associated with working with a surrogate. In today's episode, we dig deeper into the financial implications for the surrogates and how to talk to your child about surrogacy. Here's the second part of our conversation. Let's talk about the surrogate. How do you refer to a surrogate? Let's talk about the surrogate part of the equation. At Growing Generations, we talked about how much generally you're paying in the $50,000

to $60,000 range for a first-time surrogate. Is that a typical amount across the industry? Yeah, I would say so. I mean, there's variances from one agency to the next. But in general, that's kind of the range for most surrogates. Do the fees change depending on the place the surrogate lives? Like would the surrogate get more money if she lived in a place like Los Angeles or New York? Sure. So currently, New York has recently been legalized for surrogacy, meaning women can be a surrogate in the state of New York and deliver there. But that's only recently changed. So there's not a lot of surrogates from New York, kind of as an aside.

But in California in general, that's probably one of the most sought after states for surrogacy. And so surrogates in California generally get between $5,000 and $10,000 additional compensation compared to a surrogate in, let's say, Ohio. I know this is a scenario that no one wants to think about, but if there is a complication with pregnancy, how is that handled financially? Does that affect the surrogate's compensation or how much the parents pay? Sure. Yeah. So when there is a loss of pregnancy or miscarriage, it can happen at various points in the process. The most common point would be in the first trimester. And usually if it happens in

the first trimester, they can start the process over again with the same surrogate. Cost really would be like what it would be for a second attempt, which is usually about $20,000 to $30,000. It's what we call a frozen embryo transfer FET. So essentially, that's what it would be. If it's later on, or there's more complication to it, then you could have costs for a DNC for the surrogate, where they basically have to do a kind of a surgery to go in and just make sure they clear all the pregnancy. Then you have where it may happen in the second or third trimester, which is very rare, but you're talking about a total loss of a pregnancy. So usually at that point, the surrogate will be disqualified. It's very difficult to know why the pregnancy happened that way, but it's just sort of one of

those mitigating factors where they're just sort of like, there's a risk here and we just don't want to have this risk happen again. In which case, if that were to happen or at any point where you need another surrogate, you have to go through the rematching process. So there's a cost associated with that, the new surrogate screening and various expenses related to that. So it's not as if you're starting from zero and you're having to repay everything. So our agency fees, for instance, are one-time fees. So until you take home a baby, you're not repaying our fees. Often, a lot of the other professionals like the legal team and that type of thing, they have similar packages. But you could be looking at new

costs anywhere from $20,000 to upwards of $60,000, $70,000, just depending on where that pregnancy ended. On paper, what is the employment relationship between the surrogate and the surrogacy company? Are surrogates considered employees? Do they get health insurance through the company? Are they 1099 employees? How does that work? Yeah. Surrogates are not considered employees of the agency. So they're not considered independent contractors either. What we're really doing is we're managing a relationship, a contractual relationship between the surrogate and the intended parents. So the surrogate is not an employee or contractor of anyone.

She's essentially someone who of her own free will is choosing to carry a pregnancy for somebody. So what we do is we just manage payment to her. So she gets her compensation, you know, correctly on time, that type of thing. And are there any rules around whether a surrogate can maintain another job while pregnant? Sure. Yeah. I mean, most do.

Most are working moms who will continue to work. They'll continue to work throughout the pregnancy. And they'll go off work when their doctor advises them to, whether it's prior to delivery or take time off after delivery to recover. Hold onto your wallets, boys and girls. Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt.

I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to

$200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply.

Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Now for some more money rehab. So what would the relationship between a surrogate and intended parents typically be like? I'm sure there's no typical scenario and everything is different, but can they stay in touch? Do they stay in touch? Does the child meet them? How would that work? Yeah, it's a great question. So most intended parents enter the process, not really knowing exactly what kind of relationship they want with their surrogate. So again, it goes to not quite knowing this person, you know, This is essentially strangers before we introduce them to each other. Most intended parents want to have some kind of relationship.

Obviously, they want to know how the pregnancy is going and things like that. And some intended parents will actually enter saying, I want to be super close. I want to go to all the doctor's appointments. I want to be in contact with her all the time. And we support those too. So what we do is we match intended parents and surrogates in a customized way so that each person's preferences are really met. So if a surrogate says, you know what, I want to have a close relationship, we're going to match her with intended parents who want that as well. What tends to happen when you take intended parents who aren't quite sure, they want some contact contact or they're not quite sure what it is um what often happens is they they develop a close relationship

and they keep in touch afterwards and it may be something as simple as sending um holiday cards or like sending photos of the child as he or she grows older or you know that type of thing to we've had some intended parents bring their, go on vacation with their surrogate every year. So the main thing though, is this, is that the surrogate isn't necessarily treated as a surrogate mom to the child, but as a celebrated person in the process of having this child be born. And that's how they're kind of honored in these families. And it's something we encourage intended parents to really create with their children, you know, to have this story that, you know, this creation story that like, hey, listen, we really wanted to have you, but we

couldn't. And so, you know, we've worked with a woman who's called a gestational surrogate, and she's already a mommy of her own children. And she carried the baby and gave you to us when we were born. And we love her and she helped you come to be. It's creating that kind of story that builds healthy emotional relationships, especially with the children, because kids are just matter of fact. You just kind of tell them the way it is and then they go, okay, great. That's the way it is. And it's when you withhold things from them that they begin to seek out things that they're seeking their own answers to things like that.

So a lot of people will keep that kind of conversation, that kind of story incorporated in the relationship with their surrogate, whether they have a super close relationship or one where they just kind of periodically keep in touch. Really good advice and really smart insights about, you know, how to talk to kids who will inevitably ask about that. Like, where do babies come from? Was that in your belly? You know, those types of kid questions.

It's interesting that you bring up, you know, the idea of them being a stranger until you're matched. I had been talking about the option of potentially using a woman who we already know. How does that work with your agency? What if I came to you and I was like, hey, Tio, I have this woman who is my guardian angel woman who, you know, wants to be a surrogate for us. Yeah, we've worked with intended parents who brought a friend or someone to they know to be their own surrogate. And our own personal criteria is that their surrogate also pass all of the other criteria that any other surrogate would have to pass, including the screenings and things like that. But it's one of those things that generally works out well.

Our job is really to give people as much information as we can so that they understand the advantages and disadvantages of choices, right? So what we're doing is we're really taking them from each point saying, here's what's next. Here's some choices that you have and educating them on that. So working with a friend can be great. It's really about establishing that relationship ahead of time and having real clear conversation with your friend, what it means, what their relationship is going to be and outlining that ahead of time, having good conversations, facilitating that conversation with somebody. For instance,

one of my business partners, Dr. Kim Bergman, she heads also the psychological department of our company. Having a conversation with her or one of her team with you, your fiance and your friend to really talk about it is also a helpful tool. Can you share a piece of advice that you would give someone who is considering whether surrogacy is right for them? I suppose two pieces of advice, intended parents looking at surrogacy and women who are looking to become surrogates. Sure. So for intended parents looking at surrogacy and women who are looking to become surrogates? Sure. So for intended parents looking to become parents through surrogacy, what I like to do is just sort of hear their story. What is it they're interested in accomplishing and what's their timeline? What's their budget? Things like that. I have friends

who will come to me who who want to do this and i kind of take them through the same process i would an intended parent coming to me who i didn't know and it's important to really get what people want to accomplish and you know i've had friends for instance who while they didn't have the money to do this in the united states went to um at the time they went to Ukraine when surrogacy was happening there. And they had a child there and it was very successful for them. But for them, it wasn't as much about the money as it was about getting the timeline. They were sort of nearing the age where they really wanted to have a child. So you kind of talk over some of these basic considerations that people don't really think about or take for granted. In terms of becoming a surrogate,

I like to hear from people, why would you want to do this? What caused you to even think of this? And it's always interesting to hear. I mean, the fact of the matter is, if someone's considering to be a surrogate, that's a real great first step because most women that you'll talk to about it will be like, oh, I could never be a surrogate, right? Like I would never do that. So there's like, they don't even have to think about it. It's just like, no, I would never, ever do that, right? So when someone's actually considering it, it's kind of exciting because you get to hear a side of them that's this altruistic side, you know, that they're like, you know, I had easy pregnancies.

I enjoy being pregnant. I saw friends or family struggle with getting pregnant. And I just saw, you know what, this could be a gift or a blessing to somebody. And I really wanted to do it. So hearing people's stories on either side, wherever they're coming from, is really important. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. If you're considering surrogacy, there are resources out there that offer financial help. I've linked those resources in the show notes. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin.

Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers are Nikki Etor and Will Pearson. Our mascots are Penny and Mimsy. Huge thanks to OG Money Rehab team Michelle Lanz for her development work, Catherine Law for her production and writing magic, and Brandon Dickert for his editing, engineering and sound design. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself

so that you can get it together and get it all.