Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - The Financial and Emotional Cost of Choosing the Wrong Partner: Pattie Ehsaei’s Story of Survival and Power

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Pattie Ehsaei’s life may look picture-perfect now—she’s a financial exec, lawyer, and author—but it’s been shaped by unimaginable tragedy. Pattie grew up watching her mom depend entirely on her dad financially, a dynamic that turned toxic and ended in unimaginable tragedy. Later, Pattie found herself in a financially abusive relationship of her own, repeating painful patterns until she broke the cycle.  Today, she shares the lessons she’s learned about love, money, and power—wisdom she’s also laid out in her book, Never Date a Broke Dude. Nicole and Pattie talk about why who you choose as a partner is the biggest financial decision you’ll ever make, how stay-at-home parents can protect their financial autonomy, and how to spot the money red flags that don’t always look like red flags. And yes—they also get into why Pattie says you should never date a broke dude. Today’s episode contains descriptions of intimate partner violence and suicide. Please take care while listening. If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, or is struggling with their mental health, here are some resources: Relationship Abuse Hotline: 800.799.SAFE National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 800-273-TALK (8255)

I live in L.A. now, but lately I have been craving the seasons. Snow, hot cocoa, the whole thing. I don't even ski, but I have been daydreaming about working remotely from somewhere really cozy on the East Coast, like a cute little ski town for a little bit. And whenever I know I'm going to be gone for a while, I always remind myself that my home can actually be working for me while I'm away because I host my space on Airbnb. It is one of the easiest ways to earn passive income from something you already have and that extra income feels particularly helpful this time of year as we approach the holiday. A lot of my friends say that sounds amazing, but where do you find the time to manage guests and bookings? And that's when I tell them about Airbnb's co-host network. Through Airbnb, you can find a local co-host who can help you set up your listing, handle reservations, communicate with guests, provide on-site support, even help with design and styling. I like to give a personal touch when I'm hosting on Airbnb. So I make a list of my favorite restaurants in the area and I handwrite a note welcoming my guests to the property. My guests love it. But I also know that some of those little personal touches can take a lot of extra time. So this is the

exact kind of thing that you would want your co-host to help you with. Whether you're traveling for work or chasing the snow or escaping it, or you've got a second place that just sits there empty more often than you'd like, your home doesn't have to just sit there. You can make extra money from it without taking on extra work. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Here's one piece of advice that I've given for years. Build an emergency fund. Aim to stash away enough to cover at least three months of expenses in case your income suddenly drops. Sounds simple, right? But let's be honest, it's not. Saving even one month's worth of living costs can feel impossible. Just when you're making progress, that check engine light blinks on and derails

your plans. Life already throws enough curveballs. You don't need your bank adding to the chaos. That's why it's so important to choose one that makes savings easy and doesn't nibble away at your hard-earned money with ridiculous fees. Chime understands that every dollar counts. That's why when you set up direct deposit through Chime, you get access to fee-free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit, and more. With qualifying direct deposits, you're eligible for free overdraft up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals. To date, Chime has spotted members over $30 billion. Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in just two months.

minutes at chime.com slash MNN. That's chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank, banking services and debit card provided by the Bank or Stryd Bank NA, members FDIC, spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out-of-network ATMs, bank ranking and number of ATMs, according to U.S. News and World Report 2023. Chim, checking account required. If you take only one thing away from today's episode, money rehabbers, let it be this. In my not so humble opinion, public is the best brokerage for investing in bonds, stocks, ETFs, options, and even crypto. You can try it out for yourself and see why I love it so much at

public.com slash money rehab. Public is legit the only platform I used to buy bonds. Before public, I used to buy government bonds the hard way. Slow websites, confusing interfaces, website designs straight out of the early 2000s, just picture where fun goes to die. That was it. And then I found public. About five years ago, and I have not looked back. I can now finally buy bonds without wanting to rip my hair out. Public makes it so easy to buy bonds, whether you're into treasuries or corporate bonds, you can browse thousands of options right from your phone. But like I said, public isn't just all about bonds. You can also find stocks and ETFs. And they offer a high yield cash account with a 4.1% APY, which is higher than the national average.

They even have retirement accounts. You can now open a traditional or Roth IRA or both right on public. So your future self covered. And for a limited a time, you can earn a 1% match on all your IRA deposits, IRA transfers, and 401k rollovers. If you want an investing experience that's both smart and simple, head to public.com slash money rehab. One more time, public.com slash money rehab. This is a paid endorsement for public investing, full disclosures, and conditions can be found in the podcast description. I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab.

Before we got started, I just want to let you know that today's episode includes descriptions of violence, emotional abuse, and suicide. Please take care while listening. Today I'm talking to Patty Asai, a certified boss. She is a financial executive, a lawyer, an author, and on the surface, her life looks pretty perfect, but it hasn't always been that way. Today, Patty pulls back the curtain on her own life and shares her experience growing up in a household where her mom was financially dependent on her dad and how that relationship turned toxic and the devastating consequences that followed. Patty's mother took her husband's life and then her own. In her 20s, Patty found herself repeating some of the same patterns she saw in her parents' relationship and found herself

in a financially abusive relationship. But those painful moments and that trauma became the foundation for the badass financial life she eventually built. With so much darkness in her story, you might not guess it, but Patty is a total beam of light. And even though her story might make you want to cry at times, she spends most of this conversation trying to make you smile. Today, she tells me all the lessons she extracted from relationships, which she also compiled in a book with a cheeky title, Never Date a Broke Dude. In our conversation, Patty and I talk about why who you choose to partner with romantically

is the biggest financial decision you will ever make and what to do if you're a stay-at-home parent who wants to maintain financial autonomy, how to spot financial red flags in a relationship that aren't so obvious. And of course, why she says you should never, ever date a broke crusty scrub. Patty, S.I. Welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to have you. And I cannot wait to get into your book. But I got to get into your story. Take me back to the beginning, you and your family immigrated here from Iran. Yes. And I grew up in Los Angeles, dubbed Tarangeloist, but I want to hear the story straight from you. I was born in Iran. I lived there until I was seven. My mother worked for the Shah of Iran, and she actually was the head nurse at

his hospital. So she had a very prestigious job. And my dad had a great job. He was doing import and export business in Iran. And they were both very successful. They were the power couple. Everyone wanted to be like them. When the revolution occurred, my dad was really afraid for our lives. And the reason is one day he walked into his office and he just happened to be late that day. And a lot of his partners were of the Baha'i faith and they were slaughtered. So he walks in and he sees that and he freaks out. So you weren't Baha'i. No. And so he was like, we've got to get out of here. And my mom, it's interesting, my mom really resisted that. But slowly we started to see that it was getting really dangerous because we lived in an area.

it was a compound for the people that worked for the Shah. And I remember like night after night when the revolution was there, thousands of people outside waiting to break in to come and kill anybody that live there, helicopters above, machine guns. So we actually escaped and we were on the last plane that was allowed out of Tehran. After that, they closed all of the airways and no one could come in or come out. People might not know the whole history there. Everybody was trying to get out at the time. Anybody that had any affiliations with the Shah was trying to get out. And both of your parents were super highly educated. Father had an amazing job there, but it didn't really translate. We didn't start out in Los Angeles. We went to Beaumont, Texas, where my cousin

lived, because as an immigrant, you go to where your family is, right? So Beaumont, Texas is where footloose was filmed. It was like such a backward place. We were in Texas for a while, but my mother was educated. My dad was not as educated as my mother, although he was very successful. So he was very street smart, and he had great hustle. So he was super successful in Iran. When we moved here due to the language barrier, my mother couldn't pass the nursing exam, so she couldn't work. And my father, again, couldn't find work in his respective field, which was importing and exporting, and we brought a small nest egg, which she lost in bad business dealings. So we ended up going from being pretty well off in Iran to being lower middle class in the United States.

What was that nest egg? I think that nest egg was probably around $100,000, something like that, that he completely lost. And you said that he also went into hard manual labor. Yes. Just to make ends meet. What did he do? He started to build homes. So my cousin that lived in Beaumont knew somebody that was in construction.

And they were like, we need somebody. Do you want to come? So my dad went and started to learn how to build homes. And that's what he did for a little while. Just anything he could. Anything he could, yes. And your mom was also trying to find work, but couldn't. Yes.

Pass the exam. Correct. My mother was trying to find work. She couldn't pass the nursing exam. And wherever she went, her English wasn't that great. So it was just really hard for her to get work. And it's not like it is now the digital error, right? It's not like she could have done something online.

She just couldn't do anything. So she was relegated to the home. Yeah, I mean, both my parents immigrated to the states too. So I'm first generation. And I remember just hearing stories about going to ESL classes back in the day. There was no other way. Right. And I didn't know any English. I didn't know any English when I moved to the United States. I literally had to learn on the fly. And it was really difficult because being 70 years old, being thrown into a school in Beaumont, Texas, nobody looked like me. Everyone had blonde hair, blue eyes. I didn't speak the language. It was terrifying. I can only imagine. Yeah. And your mom, it sounds like, became financially dependent on your dad. Absolutely.

Which wasn't the case back home. Exactly. And that's where I saw the power dynamic shift. So I saw when we were in Iran, my parents really were equal in the relationship. They were making, both of them were making great money. I actually think my mother may have been making more money than my father. But they were equals in the relationship. But once we moved to the United States, I saw the power dynamic.

shift. And when I saw the power dynamic shift, I slowly started to realize what this was about and my mother would always remind me. Then what happened? My father started to dictate what we could spend money on and what we couldn't. And in his defense, we really didn't have a lot of money, but he really controlled everything. And when my parents would get into an argument about money, my mother would always take me into a room and say, do you see how my life has changed because I don't make my own money. And she said, it doesn't matter how much money your husband makes. You always make and control your own money because whoever controls your money controls you.

And I've never forgotten that. And that's exactly what happened to my mom. My dad started to have infidelity toward my mother. That started around when I was 16 years old around then. There was one incident that I know that my mother found out about. they broke up for a short period of time. My dad begged her to get back together. They did. And then it started again when I was about 24 years old. And more brazenly. Absolutely. A lot more brazenly. At that point, my mother was so broken down mentally and emotionally. And she couldn't really function.

She was so depressed because he had been so unfaithful to her. right to her face. And it got to a point where he was just like, oh, well, so what? What are you going to do? And that really put her over the edge. Because she didn't have money to go do anything else. No, absolutely. She didn't have choices. She didn't have money. She didn't have anything of her own. And it's not just money. It's having your own life, having your own hobbies. Everything was centered around me and my brother. Everything was centered around my dad. And then my brother and I, we left to go to school. I went to law school. My brother went to college. and it was just she and my dad, and she brought everything she had into him.

And when he wasn't there for her any longer, she felt like she was a nobody and she had nothing. And when she was telling you, you know, Patty, make sure you always have your own money. You were seven and then you were probably preteen, teenager. Like you heard this throughout growing up. I'm sure she was emotional. Did it register when she would say that to you? Yes, it totally registered because I saw.

saw it. I really saw that how that impacted her life because I always say money is power and it gives you power to choose. And she didn't have the power to choose because she didn't have money. But what's also really interesting is that my father was all about me getting an education. We didn't even have conversations around marriage ever in my household, except when it was around when I couldn't get married my parents were like until you graduate law school you have your own career you can't even discuss marriage and then there was more it sounds like infidelity more control as you were going to college yes and there was a day that you were so worried about your mom you did a wellness check yes so what happened was that i received a call from my mother that morning and she was beside herself

And at this point, she was under a lot of psychiatric treatment. She was taking probably six or seven psychotropic medications that I didn't even know about. I found out later. And all of them were just making her insane, literally insane. And I remember one morning, I received a call from her. And she said that she had a huge fight with my dad. And my dad was very brazen. That's the time when he was the most brazen.

And he had said that, yes, I am having an affair. And in fact, I did this and this and this in this house with her. And yeah, I just totally put her over the edge. So she had called me and I was at work and I was a district attorney at that point. And I was in court. I was working. And she called me that morning. I spoke with her and I said, okay, I understand.

Don't worry. I'm going to get you a plane ticket. And I'm going to fly you out tonight. I said, I have to get back to work, but when I come back for lunch, I will call you and let you know when you're going to fly out tonight. So I got back to my desk and I called her and nobody answered. And I thought that was really weird. And I kept calling and nobody answered. And then my dad's work called me and said that he had left for lunch, but it had never come back. So I was like, okay, something weird happened. And they drove by the house. Both cars were there. So I,

was very worried, obviously, throughout the day. And at 6 p.m. my time, which was 7 p.m. their time, I was in Chicago. They were living in Colorado. I finally called the police and I said, hey, can you go do a wellness check? So I remember that night, it was me and one of my best friends, Leanna. We were in the office late. And the police called back. And they told me, they were like, is anybody there with you and I said yes and they said put her on the phone so then I knew there was something wrong so they put her on the phone she got off the phone and she said the police went in and they found your parents had passed away and that your mother unalived your father and then unaligned herself how long has it taken you to even recount this story a very long time because

I was ashamed of it for many years. Only a handful of people knew the truth. Everybody else who asked about it, I would always say that my parents passed in a car accident. And part of it was shame. The other part was that I didn't want to see the look on people's faces when they heard the truth because it's very jarring, right? and people don't know how to react, people don't know what to say, it took me a long time to get here.

And right after they passed, my brother was 19, and he was still in college. So for me, I went into survival mode, and that's what I've really learned how to do since I was an immigrant. And I was the older daughter. And I had to take the reins. So I went to survival mode and just making sure that, and my parents, you know, I wasn't left an inheritance, right? So I had to make sure that my brother was okay. So I went into the survival mode where making sure that he's studying. He's going to school. He's going to go to law school. He's going to do all those things. And I remember he had graduated law school. He took the bar. He had passed. And I remember the phone call. I was in a doctor's office when he called me and he said, I passed the bar and I have a job. And as soon as he said that to me, at that moment, I realized that, I had been living in these seven years from the time my parents passed in making sure that he was

okay. And now that he's okay, now I have to really deal with my issues. And I think that's when the healing started. That's when it really, like you could exhale. He was taking care of. Yeah. And I would say healing. That's when the pain really started. Because obviously in the beginning, you're in shock, right? There were months and months and months. And months, I cried every single night, every single night. I would cry myself to sleep. But it was different kind of pain than to where when my brother finally said that to me, I was like, oh my God, then I really am screwed because I haven't dealt with the pain.

You're just pushing it down. Yes, I was in survival mode. I was in auto mode. And I wanted to make sure that my brother got to where he needed to be and where my parents needed him to be. And in doing that, I have a lot of regret because I forgot that he was a human. I never asked my brother, how are you doing emotionally? How are you doing with all of this? It was all a focus about him progressing. How are your grades? Are you doing well? Did you apply to law school? What law school are you going to go to? When are you going to take the bar? What was your LSAT score?

It was just that because I wanted to see him progress. And I left a lot behind. and trying to help him emotionally. Well, you probably took the role of your parents. I did. I could have done a better job. I was only 24. If I could go back, I would do it differently, obviously.

I would focus also on his emotional well-being, which was something that I... And I think I wasn't dealing with his emotional well-being because I wasn't dealing with my emotional well-being. Right. Yeah. So that wasn't a thing. Like letting your emotions,

and to this day, I'm like that. Letting your emotions and mental health get in the way of success. is not a thing. So I think that's why all of that happened. You said you felt shame. You didn't do anything. So why did you feel shame?

I felt shame because my family wasn't perfect. That they would think that my mother was a nut job, for lack of better words, that my mom was crazy when she really wasn't. I mean, that was just toward the end of her life. That doesn't define who she is. The Iranian community is very judgmental when it comes to these things. So I felt ashamed that I didn't have, not only did I not have the money that most of the Iranians did that lived in the United States. That was a source of shame for me. But also now, I didn't have the family that I should have.

I didn't have the perfect family. And that's what caused a lot of the shame. And you said that people didn't know how to respond. So you just made up a story. Yes. I'm sure you encounter this a lot. People don't really know what to say. What would you suggest to somebody?

What's the right response? I don't know if there's the right response, but I think the best response that I could think of is for someone just to say, you know what? I'm really sorry. you went through that. I'm really sorry. You went through that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's it. Because there's nothing else people can say

nothing's going to change it. It's not going to make it better. But just people say, I'm really sorry for that. And now that I'm more open about it, I do videos about it, because I think it's really important to share the story. I get a lot of that. So it's nice. And I appreciate you doing that. And it's so remarkable what you've gone through since then and the healing process where you've come to the conclusion. conclusion that financial independence is so, so critical. Absolutely. I was born of this trauma and terror. I'm sure there was a lot of healing that took place.

When did you get to the point where you could actually link it to financial independence? I didn't link it to financial independence until I broke up with the guy whose arms I ran into four months after my parents passed. Oh, yeah. Tell me about that. Yes. So I felt so alone. I felt so empty. I felt like I didn't have anybody in my life. My family, the people that I was closest to, my cousins, they lived in Texas. My other cousins lived in Kuwait. So I didn't have anybody around me. And I felt very lonely in Chicago. And I met this Iranian man who I thought was perfect. And he was really just my dad in a different version. version, extremely controlling, extremely possessive. And I ended up giving up my job to move to California with him and not having any money. And that's when I realized I'm doing the same exact thing as my mother. Now, luckily, I had a career I could fall back on. I was studying for

the bar in California because you have to pass the bar in California in order to be able to practice. I was studying for the bar and I had a career so I had a backup. But then I started thinking, what if I didn't have this backup? Then I would be stuck with this guy for the rest of my life and I would die a slow death. And that's when it hit me that financial independence is the key, the absolute key of having control over your own destiny. Amen. Yeah. Amen. sister. It sounds like there's other sort of verbal abuse, maybe some financial abuse going on in that relationship to a toxic cycle of negativity and then grand gestures. Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. There was a lot of verbal abuse. First of all, he controlled what I wore. You're going to laugh when I tell you this.

We'd go to the beach and he would require me to wear a maternity swimsuit. Just think about out for a second. I couldn't wear a regular swimsuit. I had to wear, you know, the maternity swimsuits were like, it's like, yeah, right? I had to wear that. I couldn't wear anything that showed my shoulders or any, because that was too revealing. So he controlled what I wore. I couldn't have any male friends, even though I grew up a tomboy and I was around men all the time. And so my closest friends were men. I had to give up all my male friends for him. Yeah. And he would give himself permission to call me a whore or call me a slod. Yes, yes. Over the stupidest things, for example, we were at the grocery store. There was a 14-year-old kid bagging our groceries. And I remember saying,

oh, thank you so much. You're so cute. Thank you. Just very in passing, you'd be like, why do you always have to flirt with people? Why do you always have to act like a whore? Yeah, that is the type of stuff that I put up with for five years. of my life. And I put up with it because I didn't believe I deserved better and I was scared of being alone. But sounds like you emulated some of what you saw in your parents. No, absolutely. Yes, for sure. I always had a job. I always worked. I was an attorney. But the time when I moved to California, I didn't, I couldn't work because I had left my job in Chicago. I had to study for the bar. You pass the bar in Illinois. Yes, I'd pass the bar in Illinois. But in California

requires you to take the bar again. You don't get grandfathered in like most other states. So I had to sit for the bar again. So I was waiting for my bar results. So in the meantime, I wasn't working. And I was just relying on him for the money. I watched a TikTok series that you did on this. Thank you for all this content that you do. I love it. It sounds like not only did he say you couldn't have any male friends, but he was also living with his ex who was pregnant with his kid. It's like a movie. Yes. So when I first, met him, I thought he was single. And I recalled that I only had his work phone number. I didn't have his home phone number. And I always called him at work because we were always at work. And then I would

see him. He'd come pick me up after work. We'd go to dinner. And then I would go to my house. And it was just whatever. And I asked him for his home phone number. And he gave it to me. And he's like, but please don't call it. And I'm like, what do you mean? Why shouldn't I call your home? So then to this day. I don't know if this is true or not, to be honest, but this is what he told me is that he was living with a girl that followed him from New York, that he wasn't in love with her. This is what he's telling me. He could have been in love with her. I don't know. And that she tricked him into having a baby, that she got pregnant. He didn't want her to have the child, but she insisted on having the child that they're broken up and he is looking for.

for a place for her to live, but until they find a place for her to live, he's not going to kick out a pregnant woman on the street. So that was the story that I was told. And what did you think? Again, back then, I was so desperate that I believed it. And I think some of it was true, to be honest. I think that he was in a relationship that he necessarily didn't want to be in. I think he loved her as a person. I don't believe that he was in love with her. and she got pregnant and he didn't know what to do at that point, but he shouldn't have been pursuing anybody else, right? If you have your pregnant, even ex-girlfriend living with you, that's, okay, chill out for a second, right? You don't need to be going out, but I was so young

and I was so desperate that I didn't see that red flag. I started to feel sorry for him and poor him and that's the way he made it sound to me and it sounds like you guys were just in this gnarly cycle of highs and lows too so you see this in a lot of abusive relationships of all varieties physical financial emotional and oftentimes there's two of the three or all of the three but then he would buy you things what kind of things would you buy yes a car literally a car. That was the most expensive thing that he bought me. Any time that I would be at my breaking point, he would buy me something. And that would just reel me back in because I was like, see, he does love me. He got me a car, like the car that I really wanted. And back then, I'm really

dating myself. But it was the BMW 5 series. It was a stick shift. And that's what I really wanted. It was the color I wanted, everything. He would reel me back in. with that type of behavior. When did you leave? It was two weeks before the California bar. We were living in San Diego. And I will never forget this. I was so sick of him.

And his mother, his mother was living with us. And she was a cruel, cruel human being. She really was. She would say just the meanest things to me. And here I am trying to study for the bar. And she was just on me. and one day I looked at myself in the mirror and I had no idea who I was. I had just become this thing, this piece of meat, flesh that he wanted me to be.

I had no idea who I was. And then his mother was on me. So that night, I said to him, I said, can we find a place for your mother to live right down the street? And it's not like she was an old woman who couldn't, she was very active. She was very healthy. it's not like you needed to live with somebody, right? I said, just right down the street, I'm like, this is way too hard on me.

I'm trying to study for the bar. This is way too much stress. Can we just find her a place to live? And he said to me, my mother isn't going anywhere, but you do whatever the F you want. And Nicole, I don't know what happened. I don't know what it was about that one statement that he made. but I remember just a switch flipped in my head and I was like, are you kidding? What am I doing? So right away, I called one of my best friends from law school, Eileen. She is still in L.A. and she had this

amazing home in Beverly Hills back then. Her husband was very successful. I called her and I told her what was going on. She's like, come live with us. She goes, I'm in this big house by myself and my husband works. So come live with us. And, And that's when I was like, I'm leaving. I made the decision right at that moment that I was leaving. But he didn't know I was leaving because he would try to stop me. I knew that. So what I did is I packed up as much as I could in two suitcases and a duffel bag.

And I stuck it in the closet. And the next morning, I remember him waking up and going downstairs. And I was hoping to wake up before him, but that didn't happen. He woke up really early. He went downstairs. And I got myself together. and I slowly took the suitcases and the duffel back all hanging on me, slowly tried to go down the stairs without him hearing me because the door was right by the

bottom of the stairs. I got to the bottom of the stairs and I heard him coming from around the corner. So I swung the door open. I'm basically running to my car. He's like, where are you going? What are you doing? Like you started screaming, you know, what is going on? and I put the suitcases, I put everything in my car, and I said, you told me I could do whatever

the F I want, and that's what I'm doing. And I literally screeched out. It was like a movie. I screeched out of the driveway, and I left. And I went to Los Angeles. Has anyone reached out to you for a movie? Not yet, but they should. Who do we want to direct this thing?

Yeah, I know. It would be amazing. We're saying, Spielberg, let's go. Yes. or material. It really is. But I got back together with him after that. Oh, Patty. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Again, because I was lonely in Los Angeles. I eventually got an apartment myself. I got a job. And I was just so lonely and he kept begging me to come back. Begging me, begging me, begging me, begging and pleading with me to come back. And I did. And very quickly, I realized again, he is not the one for me. And the final,

final straw was when he had read my emails. He'd read my emails and how did he get in there? Great question. I had an issue with my computer and he told me I'll fix it, but he needed my password. So I gave him the password to my computer and he got into my emails and he read it. And there was nothing in my emails that were bad. He went crazy over and this is how stupid he was. An email that I sent to a friend of mine talking about how I couldn't wait for he and his wife and his kids to come to L.A. so we could hook up. And he took hooking up, meaning, I mean, how stupid. And he brought this to my attention. And then that was the final straw. That is when I asked him to leave. He wasn't living with me. I was living in L.A. who's living in San Diego. And I told him, get the F out. I never,

ever want to see you again. This is truly it. Do you need a restraining order? he no but he would keep coming back I would just find him like by my house I remember there was one day that I went home and this is months after we broke up like he kept showing up at my work events there was a work event in San Diego and you're going to find this really interesting there was a work event in San Diego and I had left a box in his house that had my parents belongings which meant something to me so I called him and I said hey I'm coming to San Diego for this work event. Can I stop by after on Sunday? It's Friday through Sunday. Can I stop by after to pick up the box? He's like, yeah, sure, no problem. And we're just talking. And I'm thinking, okay, we're cool.

We're friends. He's like, where is it? I told him at the Hotel Coronado. And I go, but Sunday, I'll call you and I'll come pick it up. And I remember that Friday, I was sitting in the conference room watching the person presenting and the conference room had all glass. And I turned to my right and he was outside staring at me. This is a total movie. It turns into a horror. Yes, staring at me through the glass. Yes. And I'm like, oh my God.

So I go in the bathroom and I call him. I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you here? He's like, I need to talk to you. I'm like, I am at a work event for the weekend. Like, I can't talk. I was like, leave. We're going to be in this room until five.

So he's like, okay, I'll leave. So I go, I'll call you on Sunday. We can talk on Sunday. that I was trying to just get him to leave. So I come out to go to dinner because, you know, these events, you go to the conference thing and then you go to dinner. He's standing outside waiting for me. Yeah.

Trying to force me to get into his car. I didn't do it. I was like, I have to go following the car that I am in with my colleagues. When we're laughing about something and him calling me, he's like, I hear you laughing. I'm like, at who? Where are you? You're laughing at me. like, where are you? And he's right next to me. It was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah, he wouldn't leave me

alone. And yeah, I didn't think about getting a restraining order because he finally did leave me alone. But at the, he showed up at my house after that. I was pulling it to my garage and I saw him sitting in a car. I was like, oh my God. So I opened my garage door. It opened so slowly. I'm like, so I went in and it closed before he could come in. And I was like, go away. I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to see you. Were you physically scared of him? Oh, absolutely. Did he ever? No. He was never physical with me, ever. But I was physically afraid. Did you ever get that box back? Yes. So that Sunday, finally he came back with the box because I said, bring it and I'll talk to you. So he brought it. And he was hoping he was begging and pleading. And I actually, to be honest, felt sorry for him. He was just

begging and pleading so much for me to come and get back together. And I was just like, I just, I knew I couldn't do it. Do you think part of the draw to him, I'm assuming he knew what happened with your parents? Absolutely. And loved you or said he loved you just the same. Were you worried that another man wouldn't feel that way? I don't know if it was more about my parents,

but I was, I was afraid that another man wouldn't love me like he did. I do believe he loved me in a very sick way, but I was just very afraid of, being alone. I think that's what it was. You're such a badass. Our were.

Present tense, past tense, future tense. Lawyer ran commercial banking teams. Tell me if I'm missing anything. M&A teams. Yeah. The most literate from book smart to street smart, my God. And so when you come out talking about how financial abuse or financial control can happen to even the most financially illiterate women. It's truly incredible that you're doing that

because I can imagine that you also felt shame around that. Like you got these degrees. You ran these teams, but how are you dealing with this? I was a very successful lawyer when I was with him. Yeah, and this just shows that it happens to the best of us because we've been brainwashed to believe that we need a man and that our entire self-worth is dependent on a man choosing us. And unless a man chooses us, we are not good enough. And that is the lie that we've been told that we believe. And this is why we stay in these relationships. It's the number one thing that I see from women that money allows you to have the choice within work, but also within relationships to leave an abusive situation. Because otherwise, there are many women that I see all the time who don't know

where the money is, who don't have their own money and are too scared to leave or too scared. Even if they worked in financial services, we've had women on the show who worked at banks and are like, how does this happen to me? I know this stuff. I do this stuff for other people, but I can't do it for myself. Why is there this disconnect? I think there's a disconnect because we've been told that we're not good with money, even though we work with money.

it doesn't matter, that we're not good with money. We need to hand over the reins to the man and make him feel like a man because men feel like they need control to feel like a man and they need control over our finances, our lives. They're the ones that need to be the leaders in the home. And we really succumb to that because we don't want them to feel less than. And you say, understandably, that your partner is the biggest financial decision. You will ever make. You've seen a wide spectrum of that.

When did you finally get to that conclusion? Was it after this relationship? After this relationship, yes. I really understood that relationships and marriage has very little to do with love, but it is a financial decision. And it's the biggest financial decision you make. And I know that for a fact because the biggest reasons marriage is break up is because of finances.

That's the number one reason. so love has nothing to do with it love can't keep you together being on the same financial page is what keeps you together and until you understand that marriage is a financial decision rather than a love decision you're going to be in trouble well marriage is contract absolutely and you it's a financial contract yes you're now engaged yes i want to say congratulations but you're never getting married. No, I'm not. So this was just a commitment and a beautiful ring.

Thank you. Yes, it was an extra level of commitment for us. We are life partners. I've been with him for over eight years. We're very, very happy. But I don't see a need for marriage. And to be honest, marriage is based out of patriarchy. That's where marriage originates from is out of the patriarchal system.

so for me it's rebelling against that a little bit and I understand that's not the case any longer but for me anything that comes from patriarchy is something that I don't want to engage in. So you're going to stay with him as long as you want? As long as I want, as long as he wants. Anyone is free to leave whenever they want and I think that's the beauty of it. That we're not there because we have a contract telling us that we have to be there or oh my gosh, it's going to be so difficult to unwind this thing. We're there because we truly want to be,

not because we have to be. I assume he is not a broke dude. No, he's not. Definitely not. Of course, your book, never date a broke dude. How did you get to that conclusion? You're also a woman with provocative names for books.

Yeah, yeah. So I got to that conclusion. by dating a few broke dudes. And it was horrible. That was actually the biggest financial mistake I'd ever made in my life. I dated a broke dude for two years. I supported him fully. He didn't pay for anything. And I ended up with my heartbroken, him breaking up with me and $30,000 in debt. You were in debt. I was in debt. Because of him. Because of him. Because I had to support two people. I was doing well, I was in my early 30s, but I wasn't making enough to support two people. And I would just put things on my credit card.

And I was so afraid to ask him to contribute to anything because I didn't want him to leave. It's like anything to have a warm body next to me, as long as you don't leave. And I was afraid to say, hey, can you pitch in for something? Can you pitch in for the groceries? Can you maybe pitch in for the light bill or anything like that? I was afraid to do that. And I wanted to be the ride-and-die chick. And that was the biggest financial mistake I've ever made.

But this wasn't the five-year abusive guy because he bought you at BMW. No, no, no. No, no. He was, yes, he was financially secured. This guy wasn't controlling at all because you can't be broke and controlling. You know, like those two things just don't go together. He wasn't controlling. He allowed me to be me.

He allowed me to be free, which was very liberating from me. And that's one of the reasons that I liked him so much is because he was like that. But did you have them the control? Because when your mom would tell you whoever has the money has the control. No, I did not have the control. And the reason I didn't have the control is because of the brainwashing that we are under, that regardless of whatever the financial situation is, he's still the man in the relationship. You can't be the man and not do anything that the man is supposed to do.

and I didn't know that distinction back then. So what's the distinction now that you believe is the right one? That there is no such thing as being the man in the relationship, that both parties have to be equal in the relationship. They have to have equal, say so, in the relationship. Both parties need to contribute financially in the relationship and have decision-making power in the relationship the same and contribute to the household duties,

contribute to the child-rearing responsibilities and to the emotional well-being of the relationship. And until both people are doing that, that relationship is doomed. Do you think that men should avoid broke women? Absolutely. So just broke people should not be in a relationship. But broke people, but here's the difference, Nicole. This is why I don't really talk about dating broke women as an issue. issue. The reason I don't talk about that is because men lead with their money. The guy who's a 5-3

balding, looking like George Costanza, but is a millionaire, he understands that the hot 5-10 model doesn't want him for his looks, doesn't want him for his personality. His personality cannot be that great. He leads with his money saying, I know I don't have these other things, but I can provide you a lifestyle that you would never have without me. And he is okay with that. He's perfectly okay with that. And that's the difference. Women are not okay with somebody wanting them for their money. In fact, women that have a lot of money, we go out of our way to make sure that he wants us for us and that he's not using us versus men don't care. So there's no woman you think that wants to be a sugar mama. I think they may fall into that, but I think that they really have to feel like the

man loves them. Whether it's true or not, I don't think a woman says, I don't care if you truly love me for me and you love me for my money. And that's okay. What are some financial red flags? Because when you're starting to date somebody, you don't know if they're potentially rich or not unless you're that 5'3, George Stans, a guy who flons it, you know, most normal people, you know. don't lead with that in a dating conversation. So what's a red flag that somebody should watch out for? One of the biggest red flags is if they don't want to talk about money.

That is huge. Because if they don't want to talk about money, there's a reason that they don't want to talk about money. And it tells you either they have money issues or they're secretive about how they spend their money or they don't want you to know that they don't have any. so if someone is not willing to talk about money or their finances that's a huge red flag well we say this on the show all the time the only financial problem you can't fix is the one you don't talk about

or don't admit you up absolutely absolutely and you have to have financial discussions before you decide to spend the rest of your life with someone because if you're not on the same page financially like i said that marriage is not going to last and we're talking about straight couples here There's a culture in straight relationships that a man pays on the first date. Do you think a man should pay on the first date to show that he can provide for a woman? Or do you, you're also a big proponent of female empowerment and equality? Do you think that women should pay on a first date to show independence? I think whoever asks should pay on the first date.

That's just etiquette. That's rules of etiquette. If I ask somebody to lunch, I pay, regardless of who it is. but I think we're really caught in this provider and protector mentality even today. And what we don't understand is that men should be the providers and women are the nurturers comes from this fallacy that men were hunters and women were gatherers. That's where it comes from. We're saying, okay, we're not hunting and gather anymore.

So the men are the providers and protectors and women are nurturers. But that is absolutely false. That has been disproven. Women hunted right along with the men, 50% of women hunted. right along with the men. We're warriors right along with the men. We're leaders right along with the men. So this whole provider and protector fallacy is only something that was created by the patriarchy to keep women in check and to keep women under a man's thumb. Because if it came out that we actually hunted and we were actually warriors and we were actually leaders, we wouldn't

accept the natural role that they try to force us in. That's right. You tell him, Patty. paid on the first date in your current relationship? He paid because he asked me out first. However, I'm an equal contributor to the relationship. How do you guys work that out? He pays ones. I pay once. We just go back and forth. Do you have a joint account? No, absolutely not. Everything is separate. Everything is separate. Yes. We don't own any property together. We don't have a joint bank account. We don't have any of that. But do you know what's in his bank account and vice versa? Absolutely.

Do you have logins? We don't, but if he wanted it, I would give it to him and vice versa. There's no need for that. I don't think I should have control over his personal account, and he shouldn't have control over my personal account. But visibility? Yeah, visibility, absolutely. So do you think it's a red flag if somebody doesn't share their financial?

information, login information too. Like if you're in a marriage and you have kids, you know, I have my husband's brokerage login and vice versa and we have all the logins. You should have all the financial information about assets, bank accounts, 401Ks, retirement accounts, whose name is on the deed, who owns the house, insurance, everybody, the trust information, everyone should have access to all of that information. And not just because your significant other may swindle you. That could be the case. And there's countless stories that would just blow your mind, Nicole, if I told you about how men have swindled women who didn't know anything. But in case something happens to him, I can't tell you how many

women have no idea what to do when their husband passes away. They don't know how much money they have. They don't know what assets they have. They know nothing. It's the time that I see women start to take control of their financial life because they have no other choice when they get divorced or when their spouse dies. And I always say you need to inspect what you expect. Yeah, because it's too late. Right. At that point. Absolutely. What would you say to stay at home moms who might not have their own source of income, but you suggest that they should be financially independent? Should they have a secret account? I don't think they should have a secret account because you should never have secrets, but I do think that they should have their own account. Now, I do think that

labor in the home should be compensated monetarily. So I do think that a husband whose wife stays at home to scare the kids, she should receive some sort of compensation for that. How does that go? It depends on the couple and what they agree on. But labor in the home costs money. If you were to have somebody else do it, you would be paying that person to do it. Totally. Housekeeper. Exactly. Nanny. Exactly. So if you're not paying somebody else to do it, then you should be compensating your wife.

But that's something that the husband and wife can come to a conclusion. But I seriously think that is something that everybody should consider if they're staying at home. Because they're also giving up their career and there's opportunity costs in the things that you're giving up, right? Now, if you don't want to do it that way, you can have a side hustle. And right now, we're in the digital age where you could literally. make money just doing data entry. If you have zero skills, you can still make some money on the side. And it doesn't have to be a lot. But start with a little, make some money every single week on the side, put that in account where you only have access to, where you only have control

over. So in case something happens, you have options to leave. So not secret, but sole control. Absolutely. And he should have. an account where he has sole control over that money as well. So do you advocate the yours mine hours approach for accounts? Yes. Well, if you want a joint account for family expenses or for things like that's okay, you can have that account, but the money that goes into your account should come from your personal account that you only have access to. So your paycheck shouldn't be going into the joint account. So if a stay-at-home mom wants to have a conversation like that,

but is too nervous, that might just be a red flag in and of itself. But how can a system like that be set up? There's just a certain percentage of a paycheck that goes into another account. Do you give your significant other who's not stay-at-home an invoice? How have you seen it best work? I've seen it best work, especially if both people are working. I think the best way is that each person, person contributes the same percentage of their salary into the joint account for household

expenses. I think that's a really great way of doing it. Okay. Yeah, because it's weighted. It's weighted, right? Even though the ultimate numbers are different, it's still fair. And I think that's the fairest way to do it if both people are working. If both people are not working, then what I suggest is you really have to be business-minded around this. Write down all of the things that you do around the house and how much the average per hour is for those duties and you tally that up and you go in with numbers i always say going with facts not feelings that i do x amount of hours of work around the house this is how it's broken down if you were to hire somebody to do all of these things this is what it would come to i think it's only fair that i get whatever you think is

fair. X percentage of this amount. And I would like to get that money and put in an account where I can feel safe, where I can feel secure and have money that I can do whatever I want with. And you just have to do it because if you don't, you will put yourself in a very dangerous situation and it could be literally a matter of life or death like my mother. It's not just about being able to buy a bag. It's not just about being able to buy shoes. it's your life. Because fast forward what that looks like after years and years of resentment and years of financial abuse potentially. Correct. Where it could lead to the unthinkable. Yes. Absolutely. I know Dr. Jen Mann, her great aunt Tony, she had a great saying and she, Dr. Jamman was saying that she was the type of woman

that got buried in a Chanel suit. And she said, every woman should have F-U money. Every woman. And she said that years ago. And I believe every woman should have F-U money. To not have to tolerate. To not have to tolerate situations that you don't want to tolerate, whatever that may be.

It's different for everybody. But if you want to be able to leave a situation, you have to have enough money to get a place to live, to get a car, to be able to support your bills and your children, for a period of time until you can get on your feet fully. That's what you need. So FU money to you is not millions and millions of dollars.

It's like the basics. It's your financial go bag. Yes, at least six months of living expenses. That's what that is. The freedom that it gives you makes it FU money, not the amount. I love that. Yeah. Patty,

You're an incredible woman. Thank you so much for your insights. We end all of our episodes by asking for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. You've already talked about so many when it comes to a relationship. I know you also had some ayahuasca induced revelation. So if you want to leave us with something you learned from an ayahuasca journey, that would be great, too. I can tell you my ayahuasca journey. Where was it? Peru? It was in Peru. I went to Peru because if you really want to do it, you have to do it right. So I went to Peru and I went in the middle of the Amazon jungle and I was there for seven days. I did ayahuasca for five nights.

It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life because you feel like you're going to die. It's a horrific, very scary experience. But once you come out of it, things come to light that you didn't know before. and what came to light to me is that these men that I had been dating and making excuses for that I was enabling and that I was complicit in allowing them to treat me the way that they treated me. I always used to blame them, but after I did ayahuasca, I came to realize that it's not just them. You're a player in this. And it's actually more you because you're the one that's allowing that behavior. It's true. Yeah. When I used to

go on dates and you would hear somebody just rail on their ex. You haven't done the work, sir. Exactly. It's two. You were in that. You would pick that person. Yes. And how I knew that the man that I'm with now, Joel was the man, is when I asked him

about his ex or his exes, he would start talking about his role first. Oh, Joel. He would, he's never called any of them crazy or anything like that. he would start to talk about what he did and how he allowed certain things to happen. So I was like, okay, this is a healed person. Healed, healed people, seek healed people. Yes, exactly. I'm sure you wouldn't have been ready for him.

I wasn't. I wouldn't have even looked at him had I met him five years earlier, even 10 years earlier. I wouldn't have even looked at him. It's always like that. How did you guys meet? we met on bumble and i thought that he was a broke dude because he told me that he was a musician so i was like i'm not going to date a broke musician working in a dive bar what am i going to do with a musician and i spoke to one of my best friends who's a very successful music producer

and i said hey do you know this guy is yeah he's one of the most sought-after guitar players in the country i was like oh he's that kind of musician so i gave him a shot and what did he think when he saw the title of your book? He loved it because he's not a broke dude. It's only the broke men, the men that don't have money that get offended by that title. Every man that has his own money says,

absolutely, you should never did a broke dude. Every single guy. So tell me about some of the criticism that you received around the title of your book. That I am encouraging women to be gold diggers, which is the antithesis of what this book is about. It's called the Financial Freedom Playbook. And part of it is not dating a broke dude.

But if you read the book, it's really teaching women how to be financially, emotionally, and mentally independent. That's what the book is about. It's not about goldieging. Listen, I wrote Rich Bitch. Right. Exactly. I heard the same exact thing.

I think that you need to write a provider. title or something grabbing. You can't write five rules to financial freedom and expect it to just sell out, right? Absolutely. For this type of topic, you have to draw somebody. No, absolutely. The title has to be provocative, just like Richmond. Just so great. Thank you. Yeah, it's wonderful. But yeah, you have to have that type of title to just get people's attention, but it's not about that. It's about the substance. Yes. The broke due chapters. are really funny, but yeah, that's just one aspect of being financially independent and successful in finances. And I saw that in one of the articles you wrote, it was sort of like a nebulous

title that you had. I'm assuming the company that you were working with didn't want to be associated in your bio or didn't want to? No, the companies that I work with, I tried to really separate my professional career from my work. But no, we were going back and forth with the publisher about the title. Oh, interesting. Yeah. We were going back and forth about the title and the publisher, like wanting to change it to maybe never date a broken dude or something that's not as jarring. And I said, no, we have to keep it. I'm on your team for that one. The thing I want to leave with women is that you don't need a prince. Your prince is not coming. And if he does, he may not stay. So you better figure out a way to give yourself the life that you want,

make your own money, make your own dreams come true because that gives you power, that gives you safety and choices. Because that prince can come and go and that prince is typically a fallacy. So stop waiting for a prince. own prince that's in my book i have a chapter it says be your own prince charming absolutely are you yes i am my own prince charming for sure money rehab is a production of money news network i'm your host nicolellan money rehab's executive producer is morgan lavoy our researcher is emily holmes do you need some money rehab and let's be honest we all do so email us your money questions money rehab at at MoneyNewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one

intervention with me and follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make. You know,