Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - The ROI on Caitlin Clark, Sports Betting During the NBA Playoffs and Investing in Sports Memorabilia with Darren Rovell

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

From the epic NCAA tournament national title game to the NBA Playoffs right around the corner, there's a lot going on at the intersection of money and basketball. To talk about the opportunity for investors, Nicole calls up Darren Rovell, sports business analyst, collector extraordinaire, and founder of cllct. Nicole and Darren talk about the rise of sports betting, what the new rookies mean for the profitability of the WNBA and the value of basketball memorabilia. $ If you're ready to find your dream team, use LinkedIn Jobs. Post a job for free at: linkedin.com/mnn   $ Want to level up your money moves? Check out Facet. Facet is the next generation of personalized financial planning that is making professional financial advice accessible to the masses, not just the rich. Facet will help you understand and expand your financial opportunities by providing you with a team of financial planners (with the CFP® certification you want) and a team of professionals across all the major food groups of your financial wellness: retirement planning, tax strategy, estate planning and more. To claim Facet’s offer for Money Rehabbers, go to: https://facet.com/moneyrehab 

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated, if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full-time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you.

I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no

maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits

apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. So I'm definitely not a sports girly, but I feel like I could be one with all of the exciting financial buzz going around in that world. From the epic NCAA Tournament National Title game that was the most watched basketball game including NBA and WNBA since 2019 to the NBA playoffs right around the corner. There is so much good stuff going on. So to talk about all things at the intersection of basketball and money, I am calling up my

longtime homie Darren Revell. He is a sports business analyst, a collector extraordinaire, and also my friend for 100,000 years since we met at CNBC. Today, we talk about the rise of sports betting, what the new rookies mean for profitability of the WNBA, and the value of baseball memorabilia, if you have any lying around. Here's Darren. D-Ro. Darren Revell. Welcome back to Money Rehab. It's so good to be here on MR. On MN. Say that 10 times fast. We have so many things to talk about, but NBA playoffs is a biggie. So talk to me about it. Can we start with sports betting? How much do you think will be exchanged on sports betting platforms over the course of the playoffs?

Well, listen, I think sports betting is going, although I got out of it after five years in it, I think that sports betting is going to continue. I am a little bit concerned about the youth of America here, as one of my 10-year-olds downloaded a betting platform. Oh, damn. Yeah. I think the key here for people who listen to your show is that gambling is just part of the life on tilt we now live. Between Bitcoin, MAME stocks, doesn't matter how we feel every day, we wake up to gamble. And we wake up to that's how our blood boils. That's how our kids are growing to grow up. And so to me, it's just interesting that we have to feel that need for that dopamine.

And I just, I hope that people do it in a smart manner. Yeah, it's a dopamine cage match. Is that why you left? No, I left because I like to be a pioneer. to be a pioneer. And I thought that my next stage was kind of bringing a more sophisticated approach to sports collectible and collectible journalism. And it wasn't there. That's why I left. And you're so freaking good at that. And we'll get to that in a second. But just to quickly double click on sports betting and why it's gone through all these major changes in the last year. I mean, it's happening on the state's level, right? Ohio, correct me if I'm wrong, Massachusetts, Florida,

Kentucky, Maine, Vermont, they've all launched mobile sports betting in the past year-ish, but then there were some other states like Georgia, they've shut down attempts to legalize sports betting. So what do you think are the pros and cons that these states are weighing to come up with a decision on sports betting? Well, I think there are some states that haven't generated the money. In order to have an open system, which is allow all these sports books to operate instead of a more restricted system, you need to be able to figure out what type of money you're actually going to bring in. So I think there's been some disappointments. They've kept it quiet, but some states aren't making as much as they thought they would make. And then you have states like New York that have a 51% tax on gross gaming revenue,

which means only the big boys can come in, which means there's only five or six licenses. And so it really is state by state. I think the ones that have not dipped their toe in, there are obviously some states like Wisconsin and Utah that'll be hard forever. But there are other states that think that the juice is not worth the squeeze. Or they thought maybe it was, but then they started squeezing. Looked around. Damn it. Yes. No juice in this orange. Yes. Yes. All right. I know we're talking mostly about the NBA, but NFL really quickly. Roger Goodell came under some fire for historically just being against sports betting. But now they have three official sports.

Yeah. Right. Drafts, Kings, Fans, Duels, Caesars. They allow sportsbooks to operate at league stadiums. Do you think he's doing the right thing? All these commissioners, all the leagues in 2017 wrote to the Supreme Court to say, we don't want this. And then a year and a half later, completely flipped around when the revenue came in. It's almost like the greatest collection of receipts you'll ever have in your life. I remember when I went to Vegas and Gary Bettman of the NHL basically said, hey, we're

introducing the Vegas Golden Knights, but you won't be able to gamble on them within this radius, blah, blah, blah. And of course, then when the Golden Knights came, of course you could gamble on them. So, yes, I mean, these guys look like hypocrites. The thing that I think that all teams and all leagues are missing is the security. They have not made the security better. And when you think about a guy who misses a shot and that costs someone on their parlay $30,000 and that person is in person and that person is 500 yards from the person who missed the shot, I worry that they haven't done enough on that front. But it's all about money. Do you think it's a conflict of interest?

It's not a conflict of interest. I think in basketball, it's gotten to be tough because it's all about the stat. So there's a lot of stat parlays in basketball, right, where you're saying the guy's going to have more than 10 rebounds. He's going to have more than seven assists. He's going to have more than four points. And the rebounds has been a major cause of contention because the stat person will say, some guy comes down with a rebound and then it gets tipped out of his hand. And the stat person will say, that's not a rebound. It was a controlled tip. And then it doesn't go as a rebound. And then I'm getting calls when I was covering this from people, you know, texts from people I've spoken to before, big bettors saying,

people, you know, texts from people I've spoken to before, big bettors saying, that was a rebound. That was a rebound. The league, that was a rebound. And it's like, you know, all of a sudden, these stats where no one really particularly cared, because all it was was the player's stats or the team's stats. Now they care so much because one call that they perceive wrong is costing them tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah, I mean, it brings a whole new meaning to couch refs, right? When you don't have any money on the line, it's just silly. But when you do, yeah, the rebound or the tip, like the semantics makes all the difference. What do you say to exposed to gambling young kids or young kids at heart who are now being exposed to gambling? OK, you drink it in moderation. And if you want to drink, drink here to start. And so you don't go totally crazy at Lara Charno's house. Right. So that's, you know, you real person, by the way, you just wanted to drop a Lara Charno. What's up? I haven't spoken to you since 1996. So that's that's what I'm saying. Like, you have to do the same thing with gambling. I will tell you that I had a friend who did that with his son, $10,

$25, whatever. And his son won $3,000. And then he made, then he said, okay, I'm going to give you half. And the son said,

okay, I'll take 1500. He goes, Nope, you'll take seven 50. Cause that's with taxes. Well, that's cool.

He's teaching literacy. So, that's cool. He's teaching financial literacy. So cool. Yes, cool. I think it comes down in the same way. And one of the things that I did to show my kids, and I didn't do the gambling thing, but they saw it through me betting, was to look at my file on my computer that says every bet I made for five years, every bet I made, whether I won or lost, what was my total? I wrote down every bet. And I also, I encourage that for anyone, you can keep track in the Action Network, my former employer, because the worst part about getting out of control with betting is the losses you forget about. And if you have it written down, you can't forget about it. So that then changes your behavior on what I should bet the next time. Or you can see,

well, I love the NBA, but I'm not good at it. It allows you to understand your own truth. Yeah, because you can have selective memories about that like correct correct i haven't crushed it correct correct consult remember that one time yeah that was awesome i was so good but it's not just kids like it's everyone who's susceptible to the dopamine cage match yep and it's and it and it carries over from phones to youtube the focus on money because of the youtubers the focus of my 10 year old boys on counting their money making money spending money because phase rug you know is is you know he my sons don't know of a honda they never give away a honda they only give away teslas so it's like the focus on money because all these games that these influencers are

are doing that my boys watch uh it translates into real life and to me yeah i mean maybe then there's an also an opportunity like your friend did with his son who were like yeah these are earnings these are what taxes are this is how you know debt works yep no absolutely let's get back to basketball for a second caitlin clark whoo uh she's the one to watch during march madness number one draft pick of the wmba expected to make 77 grand in her first year as the number one pick compared to 10 million bucks for the guys. The WNBA, as you know, has been fighting this uphill battle trying to get the very same audience and benefits as the NBA. With these rising stars, it's not just Caitlyn, it's Angel Reese. Do you

think that they're going to move the needle to make the changes that need to happen with the WNBA finally? She'll move the needle. Cait Caitlin Clark. So last year, the Indiana Fever averaged forty seven hundred fans per game, and now they're going to average sixteen thousand. Unfortunately, the collective bargaining agreement doesn't allow a person like Caitlin to make off attendance or or or be what, you know, she really is economically to the WNBA. or be what she really is economically to the WNBA. And so that creates a problem, which is why I said she should have gone back to Iowa because Iowa, their name, image, and likeness collective

probably would have paid her about a million dollars versus 76,000. And she still would have been able to get her endorsements. So maybe, maybe Caitlin Clark and everyone else in this class, people are talking about women's basketball more than ever before, get the WNBA to a certain point. But what is undeniable is that Caitlin Clark is going to sell three times the amount of tickets that the Fever sold last year. And she's going to at least sell all these road venues, it would be nice if the collective bargaining agreement

provided an avenue for her to be able to make the money that she's making these teams. So even if she doesn't work out, the hype that she's generating, right? Like she's still going to sell out all these arenas. And so it's not fair. I mean, but she is getting money from somewhere, right? Didn't you wear a $17,000 Prada outfit to the draft? That's 22% of her expected first year salary. The median income in Indiana is $55,550.

And she's at $76,000. And she's like the star in Indiana. It's kind of, kind of insane that she's making like 21,000 away. Where's the product money coming from? She has money where she's getting it from somewhere. Yeah. Uh, I know her family's not rich, but I know that she, she had six jerseys she used throughout the year and two were record breaking jerseys. And I think those jerseys as of now are probably worth a half a million dollars each. So is she getting in on that as the collector extraordinaire that you are? Do you think that? Yeah, she has them. Iowa gave them, Iowa gave, gave her the jerseys. She has the jerseys. My question is, is she going to strike when the iron's hot? Cause it might not, she might not be more hot than now. That's the issue with the athletes, right? They have to like monetize.

Go out on top. As someone who copy edited the WNBA game programs in their first season as a sophomore at Northwestern, it's been a long road. Go Cats. Would you invest in some Caitlin Clark memorabilia? I do not have Caitlin stuff. I have not found anything, you know, really, really interesting or high-end.

Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated, if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts

like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash

while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it.

If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. Spotme eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in Spotme and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. And now for some more money rehab. So you just launched Collect. I really want to talk about that because it's genius. The first of its kind media company for collectors can you share some of your most prized basketball specific related memorabilia and how

they're valued right now um i'm gonna make me get up hold on let's uh i mean this is a specific one This is kind of cool. So in the in the 2000, maybe eight or nine season, the NBA used a synthetic basketball and it wound up cutting players hands. And so the NBA discontinued it. And David Stern, the NBA commissioner, the then NBA commissioner, was kind of pseudo angry at me for going all in on how bad the basketball was. So he wrote, Darren, didn't know what to do with this discontinued model, so I autographed it and sent it to you, David J. Stern. So that's one of my that's one of my favorite that's one of my favorites. That's so passive aggressive. We just, it is so passive

it is ridiculous. We just had the, what was it? The 8th anniversary of Kobe's last game. So this is his last game ticket signed by him. Wow. Which I was at that game. I was there. You were there? I was there. was at that game i was there you were there i was there oh my god i was there too he i remember he wore like the body armor or something body armor towel

yeah like he was so so smart you know getting into this and he said mom out yes and then he dropped the mic like a boss. Yeah, like a boss. And then the 11th anniversary of him tearing his Achilles and then going to the foul line and, you know. But he also crushed it in that last game. Hitting the shot. Yeah, 60 points. It was amazing. I mean, I think an issue that people run into when they're investing in alternatives. When I was at CNBC at a desk just a few feet away from yours,

I did a whole series on alternative investing. So I did a spiel on horses and wine and whatever, memorabilia and stuff. And the issue around investing in these alternative investments that are so risky is that just like people don't know when the right time to sell a stock is, it's really hard to do the same thing with collectibles. Like when you just, but you just said, but you just said, I listen, I think it's not like approved as much. Like when I'm loading stuff from eBay and auctions and in my house, my wife is like WTF. Does she ever ask about our stocks? Never. So it's like, it's like, and I have more money in stocks than this collectively. So, so, but, but that's what it is. It's like, it's like when I walked in on the one evening with a brown bag full of ties from the streets of New York.

And my wife says, we got to stop doing this. This is not classy. And I go, let's do something. I'm going to take five ties from my closet that are like zanias. And then I'm going to take five street ties. And if you guess five out of 10, I will stop buying on the street. Three out of 10, three out of 10. So a lot of it is about what is the norms in society, right? And like, yes, if you're up some, some, the financial times wrote the dumbest column, which is like collectibles is a great way to lose your money. If you want to lose your money, no bad business, people are bad at business. You still have to have a take. You still have to make moves. You still have to watch it. You have to have a strategy.

So like, I don't, alt assets are just more risky because a lot of people go into alt and they're not sound at business. They don't have a strategy. Like the stock market has 150 years of this is what's happened. So I think collectibles are a great way to make money. If you have a strategy, know what you're doing. We are going to be the hobby watchdog. So when something's going down that's not happening, that shouldn't happen, we will

cover it. We are going to be the hobby cheerleader. We will cheer when there's amazing things happening. And we will be the educator. We want to do tons of FAQs. Tomorrow I have a story. Should you get it graded? You have a card.

You found it in a shoebox. You think it's in great condition. In 1985, this was a great card. It's the Roger Clemens 1985 Topps card. And you think it's great. And you send it to PSA to get graded. Well, let me tell you something. Roger Clemens tops rookie in a PSA nine out of 10 is worth $34.

Right. And it costs 40 to get graded. So you got to, you got to be careful. I mean, you could literally lose money by not knowing what you're doing. And there's a lot of people asking, and we've had a great first week. And I'm really excited to do this full time because, you know, instead of champagne dream about eBay. Oh, thank you. My next book is coming out. It actually has a whole section on alternatives and sports memorabilia. What is it? What is it called? Money?

Three. There's no business in it. But you know who the real MVP is? Who? Mrs. Revell. Oh, she's the real MVP is? Who? Mrs. Ravel. Oh, she's the real MVP. D-Lo, I'm being married to you and all your shenanigans. Who the hell could put up with me?

Who the hell could put up with me? I am the worst. I am the absolute worst. You are the best. You always- Oh, let's have dinner at Sugarfish soon. D-Ro, we end our episodes by asking our guests for a money tip listeners can take straight to the bank. I know you have all of them, but is there something

specific that listeners can think about when it comes to investing in sports memorabilia? Yeah, when investing in memorabilia, just always know that an anniversary is a great time to flip and always keep that anniversary in mind. So I usually have 30 or 40 anniversaries that I have kind of in my head two or two to four years down the road. So when I bought my Ferris Bueller vest in December 2022, I knew that I had June 5th, 2025 as the 40th anniversary of Ferris' day off. When I'm buying some of our founding fathers and things that are signed by them, I have the 250th anniversary of America in our minds in 2026. So, you know, trade into news cycles. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, trade into news cycles. moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at moneynews and TikTok

at moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.