Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - "The Wall Street Mentalist" Oz Pearlman on Making Your Side Hustle Fears Disappear
Episode Date: August 26, 2024Nicole is joined today by Oz Pearlman, "The Wall Street Mentalist," who left his comfortable finance job to take a big bet on himself. He shares what steps he would recommend anyone else take before m...aking the same leap themselves. Plus, Oz does a magic trick over Zoom that blew Nicole's mind... you have to hear this one to believe it!
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I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.
It's time for some money rehab.
Okay, money rehabbers, what do a magician and Sam Bingbenfried have in common?
They can both make your money disappear. Okay, so I'm not going to quit my day job,
but today I'm talking to a guy who did quit his day job to pursue magic.
Not only can Oz Perlman, aka the Wall Street Mentalist, make your money disappear, but
he can also do much cooler tricks like turning ones into one hundreds.
I would love to know that trick, please and thank you.
Today I talked to him about how he left his comfy finance job to take a bet on himself and what steps he would recommend anyone else take before making the same leap themselves.
And for the grand finale, Oz did a trick for me over Zoom that blew my mind. I was dying,
dead, deceased. It was fucking crazy. I'm also going to post this video on our Instagram at Money News. So
if you don't already, follow us to make sure you can see it first. Not overselling this, I promise.
Oz Perlman, welcome to Money Rehab. Thanks for having me on, Nicole.
So excited to talk with you. You are a mentalist, but you began your career at Merrill Lynch.
That's right. I did. They call me the Wall
Street mentalist now. So which path your life takes you in? I never would have predicted.
Fascinating. Two of my favorite things smushed together. Obviously, being a mentalist is so,
so fascinating. And I want to get there and even put you to the test. But we're on Money Rehab,
of course. And because I'm a nerd, I want to hear about your Merrill Lynch time first. So what were you doing there? What drew you to Wall Street?
So I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do. I think like a lot of people,
you know, late teens, 20s, I had no clue. I started in computer engineering,
which I didn't like at all. The first time I had to write a 3,000 line program, I go,
this is not for me. But I had a very good mathematical mind.
Even when I was a kid, I would tabulate when I was like eight years old, how much the pizza would
cost with the tax 8%. My parents were like, how do you know this before it would ring up? So I just
loved doing that stuff. I switched to electrical engineering. I got an internship with Merrill
Lynch. And then lo and behold, it turned into being an associate, kind of an analyst
there initially. I worked in technology. So I kind of was a project manager, if you will,
that helped the people doing finance, the investment bankers. So I was not really directly
in finance, but I was, call it lateral. I started learning more and more about the business
because I was helping them manage some of their projects and buying servers. And then you left Merrill, right? A big institution to take a big
bet on yourself. Being a mentalist was kind of your side hustle and then you turned it into your
main hustle. Can you explain or paint the picture of that time and how you made that decision to
go out on your own? I kind of got to that point where I was so busy.
Every weekend I was working after work, I would go work at restaurants and I was the magician
at the restaurant. So I had a real mind for sales and the fact that I knew who my target market was
and I marketed to them. I wasn't going to go do stuff at like a Chuck E. Cheese because I didn't
want to do shows for kids. I want to do shows for adults.
And I was doing this on the side.
And I think I came to a point where I didn't know that I could do this for a living, but
I just was so busy.
And I had an actual aha moment with the CFO of my company where he didn't know I was hired
internally.
I was at a party.
I did something for Merrill Lynch and I did a trick.
Speaking of money rehab, where I take five $1 bills,
I snap my fingers, they turn to five hundreds.
And this guy, his name is James Gorman.
He's the CEO of Morgan Stanley.
Yeah, says to me, he goes, and he's Australian.
He goes, well, he goes, we got to have you working here, mate.
And everyone's laughing.
And I go, I do work here.
And he thought it was a joke.
That's amazing.
And I go, no, man, I work in your global technology service department. And he goes, and he literally looks me in the eye.
And you know, you have those moments in life where I can see it. He looks me in the eye and goes,
what are you doing working here? And it's like, you know, the CEO of the company, my boss's boss's
boss's boss's boss's boss goes, what are you doing working here? And I think just in my mind,
a switch flipped and I go, what am I doing working
here? I guess your interest in magic, in misdirection, I suppose, predates your interest
in Wall Street, right? I was reading that you were performing at kids' birthday parties when
you were a teenager. Yeah. So I was doing this since I was a teenager. When I was 13, I got into
it. I saw a magician. I i was blown away and then i got every
book i read it cover to cover and i was like not even 100 150 into it and then how did the mentalist
stuff happen so mentalism is kind of like a specialty right it's a subset within magic so
magic is all about fooling your eyes mentalism while fooling is a part of it is kind of taking
on a journey through your mind because there's no props.
You don't need a deck of cards.
What you need is to know how people behave.
It's almost like behavioral economics.
When you see somebody who's really sharp,
they know the way the market moves
because they know that people,
individuals act rationally.
Groups act irrationally.
So I know how to predict people's behaviors
in certain instances.
I know how to influence them. And I can kind of take you on a journey of showing that I know how you think. And I can kind of predict what you'll do before you even do it in a lot of instances.
think about your experience in building your brand as you were leaving Merrill, or did you kind of make it up as you went along? Is there anything you would wish you known then when you
first took the leap? Oh my God, so many things. So at the time when I went for this and I said,
I'm going for it, there's no playbook to be a mentalist. Like there's no book that says,
here's how you become a star that I've ever found. You got to make it up as you go along, like you said.
So I think one of the key things in life is find the people who have done what you want
to do.
How did they get there?
And I think that unless you ask them, you'll never know.
I reached out to a lot of magicians I saw on TV.
I would do good old fashioned email or call someone on the phone or try to find somebody
who knows them and work your network.
The next thing I started doing early on is you don't want those pie in the sky goals
of, oh, well, I want to be on TV.
That's a ridiculous goal.
Say, I want to be on this show within the next nine to 12 months.
How do I do that?
How do I do that?
And start looking at patterns and say, well, who books the show?
A TV producer. How do I get in touch with them? do that how do i do that and start looking at patterns and say well who books the show a tv
producer how do i get in touch with them or even better how do i have them get vouched for by
somebody who knows them well if somebody knows you really well is blown away you find out oh my god i
know the producer of ellen put me in touch now you've got a qualified lead honestly most of my
job was not entertainment it was sales sales and marketing. And I realized that
very early on, my goal really wasn't to be the best entertainer. It was to be very successful.
And those are different. Obviously, if you have a great show, that's terrific. But there's a lot
of people with great shows you've never heard of because they didn't market it effectively.
They didn't promote their brand effectively. They did a lot of things, I don't want to say wrong,
but they didn't realize what the
laser focus was to achieve their goals.
And you have to write those goals down.
People don't do that, I find.
I did.
And how did you figure out the best way to sell yourself, so to speak?
So that's a great question in two regards, which is not how do you sell yourself, but
what is yourself?
So what was my product? And it took me years to figure that out honestly but now what i really sell to companies
is memorable experiences and a value that goes beyond entertainment like i'll give you a great
example i did a show recently a pharmaceutical company let's say you have an incoming ceo this
pharmaceutical company this ceo was there for three months. They had a merger. The culture is a little bit shaky.
Some people got let go.
This is a meeting where people are kind of on edge.
And this new CEO, people are more scared of than like this person.
So what I did was I brought them up.
I did a fun trick with them, made them look like a star, like I humanized them.
They showed all of a sudden that they took their armor off and everyone loved it.
And they loved it too, because at the end of that meeting, everyone came up to them and go,
oh my God, how did he do that with you? And did you know, were you in a, and suddenly people that
never would have spoken to this person, this new CEO went up and they had a conversation piece
and opened up. And I got an email from that person the next day being like, you have no idea what
that value was. I'm providing a value that goes beyond entertainment. That's what I strive to do. And learning my target market
was at a certain point, I'm relating to corporate audiences. I'm not really going to perform in
casinos as often or tour like a music act. I'm a corporate entertainer. That's my background.
That's my unique selling proposition. So how would you explain that to potential clients, brands?
Would you work with agencies?
Would you do all of the above?
So for me, my number one marketing tool, and I think you have to figure this out in whatever
your industry is, you got to know where are people discovering you?
And is that by word of mouth?
Is that on Instagram ads?
Is that just by finding your social?
Learning where people are discovering you is huge. For me, it's mostly word of mouth? Is that on Instagram ads? Is that just by finding your social, like learning where people are discovering you is huge.
For me, it's mostly word of mouth.
People see me, they love what I did.
They want me to do that at their XYZ event that's similar.
Some people see me on TV
and then my biggest tool is my promo video.
It's three minutes, which is kind of long.
I even have one that's one minute that if you watch it, even if it's muted, you get certain things that hit you. Like,
I want to get inside your brain the same way a really good advertising agency does
and realize what are you thinking while you're watching it? Am I creating credibility? Are you
seeing people you recognize? I'm always dressed in a suit and tie. That's what I perform in in
most instances. Now, a lot of entertainers are more rock and roll. A lot of people that do what I do are not going to fit that mold and kind
of be square. But I made that decision about eight years ago because I knew the people that are
booking me and what they're looking for. So it's funny. I'm creating the brand based on my target
market and knowing this from talking to bookers. Find these people that you work with and
then ask them for candid advice.
Be like, hey, what have you liked with people you've booked in the past?
What have you not liked?
And the people that are your target consumer, if they can give you that
knowledge or if you can take them out to lunch or buy them a gift basket, find
creative ways, people do well with flattery and bribery.
Totally. But there's nothing like sending
somebody a great gift basket and then feeling like, wow, you really went the extra mile
handwritten notes. I used to send people a photo as a postcard for 10 years at every
gig I would do. I would take a photo with the birthday boy, the birthday girl, I do
private parties and I would always send the parents a picture of me and their kid smiling
and laughing with me doing something magical.
They get that card thanking them, telling them how great the party was, pointing out
a few nice details about their child, which everyone loves to hear.
It's all about benefits to your clients.
It's not about me.
It's about showing you that like I'm going the extra mile for you to make this a unique,
memorable experience.
Totally.
I mean, I probably built my career on handwritten notes and really thoughtful, random gifts
that I would send people like not extravagant, but something that they had either spoken
about or we had spoken about.
I've sent Argyle socks.
I've sent cat poo coffee.
I've sent a lot of weird stuff, but it's paid dividends.
Right. I like how the listeners are like, Cat Pooh Coffee, Cat Pooh Coffee, Argyle Socks,
check. Nicole, we've got this. We're taking our business to the next level, baby.
It's all you need. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back.
It's Money Rehab. We'll be right back. need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home
and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations,
messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you.
I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work,
but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel
always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look
guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it.
But I'm matching with a co-host, so I can still make that extra cash
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One of the most stressful
periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I
had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all
hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of
your finances by using a time checking account with features like no maintenance fees,
fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit.
Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that
I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it.
If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little
greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes
at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress.
Banking services and debit card provided by the Bank Corp. Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A.
Members FDIC.
SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply.
Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits.
Terms and conditions apply.
Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.
And now for some more money rehab. So I'm curious, I know part of the strategy behind
mind reading tricks is actually planting somewhat subconscious, unconscious, you tell me,
idea into people's minds. So what can people listening do to utilize some of those strategies when they're at work, like asking their boss for a raise, getting people to do things for you?
It's kind of like breadcrumbs. It's creating that path of breadcrumbs that leads you to the prize.
So I think making a case for you to get a raise is over delivering, constantly exceeding expectations.
And I think you've got to be
your own best cheerleader. You want to do it in a way that's not grandiose, but showing where
you've delivered time and time again, and not just letting that go. And I think that's really
important. I don't want to say you build a case, but you show how time and again, you're willing
to take on responsibility. When I get calls for TV shows and somebody goes, can you do this?
I always say, yes. I might have no idea. I might hang up the phone, cold sweats, you know,
hyperventilating into a bag and it's like, oh, what am I going to do? But I'm going to say yes.
And then I'm going to figure out how to do it. People that rise to the challenge, we see the
cream rise to the top. Who makes that senior leadership position? It's usually the person
who's the first at the meeting to go, I got that boss. And then not only do they hit it, they hit it out of the park.
So you want to be that person who kind of shines in your field. What can I do that differentiates
me? And if I can't differentiate, what in my market makes me the best? And define those for
yourself. Don't hope other people define them for you. Yeah. But like, how do you leave
breadcrumbs for your boss? If you want to raise, you can't just be like, so Mr. Gorman, it'd be
awesome if I could add a zero to my paycheck. Well, I think first off, timing is everything
in life. So read the tea leaves as to when the good timing is. You can catch people at certain
moments. And I've had moments in life that are, you know, call it luck, call it timing or a healthy So read the tea leaves as to when the good timing is. You can catch people at certain moments,
and I've had moments in life that are,
call it luck, call it timing or a healthy mix of both,
but when someone's in a great mood,
that's the time to ask for something.
So try to start noticing people's patterns.
Is it right after a holiday or vacation,
they come back all loose and relaxed,
and suddenly you've got a captive audience,
versus if they're super stressed.
When I used to get gigs at restaurants, who wants this nerdy dude who's 14? I was like
four foot nothing walking up to the table. I knew it was a heavy lift. What I would do,
I learned early on, go when they're not busy. So between shifts, between 2.30 and 4,
there's nobody in the restaurant. Everyone's there hanging out. And now don't go in asking
for something.
If you're a salesman, people are on guard.
If you're a customer, they treat you well.
So when I go up, I go up to like the restaurant,
I get something like a lemonade,
and then I'd show a trick to my waiter or waitress,
cause they have to serve you.
And they're like blown away, they go, oh my God.
And they're gonna naturally go up and get somebody else.
Can I bring my friend?
I go, yeah, bring them over.
And I would get five or six waiters, waitresses, bartenders around me,
and I go, is the manager here? And they go, yeah, bring them over. Now you're giving them a value.
Now I don't leave without getting a job. And what I would do, again, this is not apropos
to you getting a raise in corporate, but I want to see the parallel. I now give them a no-lose
proposition. I go, hey, look at all the
people you get in here at night, right? Why don't I do this the same way you were impressed? Why
don't I come here on a slow night for you like a Tuesday? Don't pay me a penny. No money. It's
very hard to say no when someone's offering something for free. I go, when every single
person leaves that night, they're going to tell you they had the best time. They're going to come
back again next week with friends. And now instead getting tips i would tell every table don't give
me a tip when you leave tell the manager and the hostess that you had the best time ever and how
much you want to come back and go of course we will and i would land nine out of ten of those
jobs when i would do that so make a case that's undeniable. Show proof that you've delivered and over-delivered, right?
Take on some big swings and big responsibilities.
And like I said, know the right time to approach it
and always ask for more than you want
because you can always go down when you can negotiate.
You never go up.
So let's say you want a 5% raise, you start at a 15% raise.
And they go, what, 15%?
What about 10?
You go, all right, I didn't want to do it,
but I'll work with you and we'll do 12 and a half.
Bam.
You never start with what you want.
Number one thing to listen to from this whole podcast,
always start bigger and you can work your way down
and never take it personally.
Negotiations are about business.
They're not hating you or rejecting you.
It's business.
It's not personal.
Could not possibly agree more.
Sorry for the long rant.
I got motivated and excited.
We love it.
It's such, such good advice.
And it's such good sales methodology to not sell and to play this long game, right?
Because if you wanted a paycheck right then and there, you probably wouldn't have gotten it. In fact, you were already in a deficit by buying a lemonade and getting there.
I'm already in the hole. And then talk about money when you're in the power position. So again,
I would come back two weeks later and say, this is going great here, isn't it? And then we talk
about money. I provided value to you. So it's only fair that we'll talk about how you can provide
value back to me. Plus now you want me that we'll talk about how you can provide value
back to me. Plus now you want me because now you have customers coming back and they're expecting
me to be there. So in whatever business you're in, whether that's upwards to a boss or you run
the business is negotiate. Once you have the power position, realize who needs who more
and act accordingly. Smart. And I bet at that time,
you probably weren't rolling in it.
So like you really did need the money.
I don't know where you were going home to after,
like if you were struggling to pay bills or something,
like how do you keep that aside? How do you not show that you're really,
literally thirsty or hungry?
Fully.
So there's a real power to saying no.
You know, they always say there's a term like
it takes 10 years to become an overnight success. I quit my job 10 years before I was on America's
Got Talent. And that show was like what blew up my career. That was the first big thing.
Suddenly people knew who I was. And instead of me just doing restaurants in New York,
I was doing shows all over the country. At that point, I had to turn down a lot of work from
people that had hired me before. And suddenly you hit another rung, your rates go up, and a lot of these people can't afford to pay you and kind of take it personally.
So you need to know when in your career you can say no, but know that sometimes even if you're thirsty, you don't want to come off thirsty.
You do not want to say, I'll do this and devalue yourself, which is very easy when you're on the come up because
you want that paycheck.
And you don't realize that if you negotiate down, whatever you negotiated down to is your
rate for everything, because now you're going to be negotiable with everyone.
So if you decide you are going to negotiate down, take away something of value.
If your price is $100 and you say, I can't do it.
Will you do 80?
And you go, all right,
I'll do it. Then you have no integrity. So you need to take something away and say, well,
I'll do this, but I'm not going to be able to do this thing on stage and I'm going to have to stay
a half hour less. Now you've shown why you reduced your price. I think that's very important in any
type of negotiation is find a reason for why you're willing to, I'm not going to say
capitulate or give up, but why you're reducing your cost. But what if you need it? Like what
if you legit don't just want it, but need it? So then if you legit need it, you need to know
when the timing is right. That's kind of like the same thing. Don't go to your boss when they're
super stressed and be like, Hey man, can I have a raise? Or can I, what do you think?
when they're super stressed and be like,
hey man, can I have a raise?
Or can I, what do you think?
That's a terrible time to do it.
So set yourself up for success and get a little piggy bank going.
Get yourself comfortable enough
that when you decide to make those types of big moves,
whether it's leaving to go out on your own,
try to get a raise, trying a new position
where you might take like a haircut on price
on like what you make.
I know a lot of people that changed professions,
made less money, but they traded their happiness. And trust me, we only live once. If you're working
your butt off nonstop, making a lot of money, but it's not fulfilling you, you need to re-examine
your life too. I know people that it's the opposite. They have all the money in the world,
but no time to spend it. So like pick your poison. If you really need it, then take it.
Honestly, take it, build it up,
try to be smart, try to sock little bits away. I don't know anybody, no matter how little they make
that can't put a few bucks away and the power of compounded interest, give it time and it will grow.
Like don't try to get rich overnight. That's always a way to lose money.
We end our episodes by asking listeners for one tip they can take straight to the bank.
Can you give us, I know you have a lot, but just one piece of money advice or a skill from
mentalism that listeners can use today to get ahead in their finances or career?
Start saving now. The one thing that blew me away when I was about 12 years old that somebody
explained to me was time value of money, which as money compounds you look at these charts and you're
like it's not that much in five years or ten years but the more you wait the more small amount if you
keep adding little bits to it little bits to it becomes massive and so you're waiting for that
moment to win the lottery or i'm just gonna get a raise. No, find a way. All of us spend on crap that we don't need.
Just decide that that one little thing,
I'm gonna take 10 extra bucks, 20 bucks, 200 bucks,
whatever that number is for you, automatically sock it away.
Kind of like your diet, like eating a little bit healthier,
save healthier.
I started doing that when I was 13,
when I had my first job in magic, and that allowed me, when you just said to me, how do you avoid being thirsty? The fact that I started saving when I was 13, when I had my first job in magic. And that allowed me, when you just said to me, how do you avoid being thirsty?
The fact that I started saving when I was 13, putting it away and delaying gratification.
Instead of buying those Jordans or this other thing, I'm like, I'm going to put this money away and I'm going to slowly invest it.
And that allowed me, when I was 23, to quit my job on Wall Street 10 years later and now live the life that I would have dreamed of.
Instead of having a boss, I'm my own boss because of the things I did early in life.
Yeah, it's, you know, the idea of fuck you money, like you would associate with being a lot of
money, but it's not necessarily. It's just like a fuck you freedom fund, whatever that is for you.
Live within your means. Like there's people that I know that have nine figures and still feel like
they're broke. And there's people that have a hundred grand and feel like they're on top of the world because it's all about how much you spend.
Totally. It's not how much you make, but how much you keep that matters.
You can't keep it when you die. So you got to enjoy life. You know, like you save, but you got
to find those things that are going to give you value. So there's definitely things that either
buying stuff or for me, I like buying experiences. i think experiences are the best thing in life
so may i have an experience now let's do it show me what you got i'm assuming we have a financially
savvy crowd and while we're not going to get nuts and bolts like we're on cnbc this is money news
network baby i want you to imagine we have a dartboard okay and you know there's circles
and there's like little triples and and you just start in your mind filling in like
logos of all different companies on like the 15 and the 16 and the 12 and the 18
can you kind of like imagine and hold up your hand and I like to make kind of
like a texture when you think of stuff and you throw a dart and you hit like a
random square like 14 go for it and and just imagine what stock was on there can you picture that for me right
now just in your mind yes random you just made this up right now in this moment I need them to
know and you look at that one and you go I can do better right that's what you listen to money
rehab for you're taking a real investment in your future you throw another dart and you aim and you
like hit the 19 and you hit another logo. And think of that company.
Can you make up a company right now?
Yeah.
Do you want me to tell you?
No, never.
Mind reader.
And finally, third try is the charm.
You zeroed in on it.
And this one, you know what's there.
The bullseye.
You throw it and you nail it.
Show me that acting.
Throw it and nail it.
Bam.
Okay.
You can see that company logo. Am I right? You can see that one clear as day. I can see and nail it. Bam. Okay. You can see that company logo.
Am I right?
You can see that one clear as day.
I can see it.
You had focused.
Okay.
Try not to say anything, but here's what I do.
I watch people's reactions.
Don't say anything.
Tech, media, energy, healthcare, pharma.
I'm going through Dow Jones.
I'm going through stuff. I think I got,
okay. Think big company, small company, mid cap. I think it's go big or go home on money rehab.
Can you be honest and tell them there is like literally no way that I could have known what
stock you thought of first and hit. Cause you didn't even know. Then you threw another dart
and finally you land on this bullseye. there is no way anybody could know what just played out in your mind no okay so what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna write this down i'm
gonna have you cover your eyes close your eyes first close your eyes see i wrote down a word
really big and everyone that's listening turn around open your eyes open my eyes now open your
eyes open your eyes yep yep yep and tell us bam you threw it you, you nailed it. That bullseye, what was that stock?
What was that company you were thinking of?
Say it.
Disney.
Disney is what I wrote down, everybody.
How did you do that?
What the fuck?
How did you guess that?
How did you guess that?
What?
That's what I do right there.
That's your jam?
I'm done.
That's how we drop the mic. Am I right?
That's how we that's I don't know how to top this.
I need a moment.
Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network.
I'm your host, Nicole Lappin.
Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Levoy.
Our researcher is Emily Holmes.
Do you need some money rehab?
And let's be honest, we all do.
So email us your money questions money rehab
at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one
on one intervention with me and follow us on instagram at money news and tick tock at money
news network for exclusive video content and lastly thank you no seriously thank you thank
you for listening and for investing in yourself,
which is the most important investment you can make.