Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - When Talking Politics on Social Media Is a Terrible Idea— and When It's Not

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

In her ongoing coverage of the events in Israel, Nicole brings you a special episode of Help Wanted, the podcast she cohosts with Jason Feifer— editor in chief of Entrepreneur Magazine. In this episode, Jason and Nicole tackle a question the whole internet is asking: should we be talking about politics on social media? Some argue we have a responsibility to share our beliefs, while others believe social media is not the best forum to affect change. Jason and Nicole, alongside marketing expert Aliza Licht, give you the framework to decide when and how to engage with political topics on social media— and if engaging is right for you at all. Never miss an episode and subscribe to Help Wanted here: https://link.chtbl.com/85RcT5bT

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apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you i'm jason pfeiffer editor in chief of entrepreneur magazine and i'm money expert nicole lappen on tuesdays jason and i answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems and on thursdays i give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love and And it starts now. Nicole, usually someone calls the helpline or one of us calls the helpline and advice is given. But today, I think let's just call the helpline

on behalf of the whole internet. That doesn't seem unreasonable, right? Not at all. Yeah, because the internet has a question and we are going to appoint ourselves plus one, which we'll explain in a second, with giving the answer because the question on everybody's mind, well, pretty much all the time, but I think particularly poignant for many people right now, is do you engage with, do you have something to say about, do you make a statement about

something happening in the news, political or otherwise, on social media? Do you say something to everyone? That's a hard question to answer. It's a really hard question to answer depending on who's asking the question, right? Because we have brands who now have opinions on things, personalities, and then people who don't have a following, but potentially employers or other people could see what they say. And so I'd love to, yeah, dig into the pros and cons with a friend of the show, Aliza Licht, brand expert, extraordinaire author, and really outspoken about what's going on in Israel, loving your content. Thank you for doing it on a personal

level. But on a professional level, what was the thought process behind like really jumping into this? And Elisa, before you just jump in, I'm just going to set up here that there are many ways to do this. And Nicole and I disagree on what you should do with social media. So I'm very interested to hear what you are doing. And then we can talk about the wisdom of it. I will just say, Elisa Licht, welcome to Help Wanted. Oh, yes. Also, hi, welcome to Help Wanted. Thank you both. And I love also that I don't know how you guys feel. So this is, it's going to be interesting. So you're not leading the witness, right? We're all going

to have our own opinions. So this is a great topic, obviously very, very poignant right now. And I think this goes back to having clear personal brand guardrails from the beginning. And in my book on brand, one of the first exercises is that Venn diagram, right? Which is a classic way in marketing to really understand the full picture and the different buckets that you can play in or you give yourself permission to play in. So whether it's work, personal life, your passions, your causes, your activism, all of that sort of has to be visualized in the form of a Venn diagram or something like that for you to truly understand how you're showing up in totality. So if you do an exercise like that and you say, you know what, I am really passionate about this specific cause and I'm educated on this, I'm educated on the subject, I feel not consider myself an activist type person. I have never been someone to really speak out on causes. I have supported friends along the way when there's been different, you know, acts of hate, like I have stood up for my friends, but it's not something where, you know, a lot of people go to, you know, go to protests, go to rallies.

Like I'm not that person. I am a Jewish person who has been deeply affected by what has happened, the atrocities that have happened in Israel. I think that if this is something that personally moves you and you feel educated enough to speak on it, then you should do so. I also think every single person should read The Room. So when I see posts about giveaways happening on the same day that the entire world is talking about a horrific massacre terrorist attack, I say to myself, I really hope you scheduled that post and you didn't pay attention to the schedule because if you're actually posting that in real time, you are tone deaf. So when we think about do we participate, do we not? I think the first

factor is, are you educated enough on the subject to participate? And then we can dive into the different types of people. Well, okay. Let me lay out the disagreement as I propose it. It's not a disagreement about what other people should do. I have no opinion on what other people should do. Everyone should do what is right for them. And on this show, we can help people decide what's right for them. But I'll tell you what I think is right for me, and that's not to engage at all, to say zero. I have a social presence that is entirely oriented around my professional brand.

And my professional brand has literally zero to do with politics or world events. And so I say nothing about anything. Instead, what I do is I go dark. So if something happens, like the war broke out in Israel, I am off social media for days. You just won't hear from me. I don't post anything. Nicole takes a different approach, not for most things, right? Nicole, you are not engaging with everything that's happening in the world or in politics, but there are certain things, and particularly Israel, for good reason that you can explain yourself, that you feel compelled to engage. And I know that we've talked in the past about how to do that and when to do that. And I'm curious to hear your

journey on it, because you are out there speaking on this subject. And as a result, your comments are full of disagreement. There are people who really like what you're saying, and there are people who really hate what you're saying. And that by itself gives me anxiety. I don't want to create an environment where people are disagreeing with me at all. It just doesn't feel like my place. But you're willing to go there. So talk with me at all. It just doesn't feel like my place. But you're willing to go there. So talk to me about that. Because I think it baffles me that there is disagreement on this in the first place. But I'll put a pin in that and just step back and say, we're all Jewish on this call.

Yeah. I know that people don't come to my page for hopefully anything but financial advice. And I have said early in Money Rehab, I don't lead with the fact that I'm Israeli or Jewish. It just, it doesn't come up. It's not relevant until it is, until like the potential destruction of my people is at risk.

Like I feel viscerally that we're like a hop, skip and a jump away from another Holocaust. And it terrifies me to the core. And I feel likecerally that we're like a hop, skip, and a jump away from another Holocaust. And it terrifies me to the core. And I feel like before anything else, before I'm a podcaster, before I'm an entrepreneur, before I'm a friend, I'm Jewish. And I think that that has just become more important than anything I've thought about my brand. And as you both know, I've thought about it very seriously.

But this feels more serious to me. So I have to say, I've thought about it very seriously, but this feels more serious to me. So I have to say, I agree with both of you in the sense that consistency is the key here. So Jason, if you never engage, you are consistent no matter what happens, you do you. That's a choice. As someone who has never done this before, this is my first time actually going out, stopping my entire content strategy, not talking about anything I normally talk about, and focusing fully on what is happening right now. And Jason, to your point, going dark for days, great idea. Disappear.

Like, that is fine. You can't go super into the issue and then be like, and here's a giveaway in your next breath. Like a lot of people are also messing that up. Nicole, I'm with you. I feel viscerally compelled and distraught. And I feel that I have a responsibility as someone with, I'm not saying I have millions of followers, but as someone who has built a small following of people who trust me and trust my opinion and trust the fact that I'm speaking about something that I know about, that I have a responsibility to actually, the reason why I'm doing it is to give other people the voice. Because what I'm feeling and hearing from friends is they don't know what

to say. They're not content creators. They don't know what to say. They're not content creators. They don't know what to say. They don't have the words. So it's much easier for me to say, hey, here's a piece of content. If you watch this for 90 seconds and you share it, you will be educating others. And that is why my couple of posts that I've done so far have really taken off because people need the support to actually support from a content perspective. Lisa, I'd love to hear you expand upon this a little bit because you just said, and I didn't realize this, this is the first time that you have ever engaged in this way on social. So what were you doing before you hit send? Like how long did you rewrite and reread whatever you wrote?

How did you decide what to put out? Did you think about what might happen as a result? What did you do? So I come from a place of, you know, being real and authentic to this subject. I am the granddaughter of four Holocaust survivors. So I'm sitting around watching all this unfold, watching the rhetoric, having people question, well, you know, maybe it was deserved. Maybe, you know, this is retribution. No, these are crimes against humanity. So when I was getting angry amongst myself, myself at like what I was seeing.

I felt like I could add my voice in a positive way to sort of educate or try to educate and explain why this is different, right? Why this to Nicole's words, hitting different and why this is so incredibly important to stand up for. I don't write scripts. I do it off the cuff. And I usually, sometimes it's a one take thing. And sometimes like my post from yesterday, if I showed you my camera roll, it's like 30 videos of the same thing of me messing up every time. And so the backlash, I mean, I feel that if you put yourself out there, but you are doing it authentically, like it

is deep in your soul. You're not doing it because everybody else is doing it. You're not doing it because you feel pressure. If you're doing it because you truly believe what you're saying, and like I said before, you are knowledgeable on the subject, then bring the backlash. Then you can be comfortable with the backlash because you stand by your words. So when I post anything that could be a little controversial, even if it's not related to this subject, anything that's a little bit edgy, I always say to myself before I post,

do I stand by this post? If people freak out about these words, do I stand by what I've said? And if the answer is yes, I hit send and I let it go. Now, the other thing I will say is thought leadership in the comments is another really important way for people to contribute. Not everything has to be from your own feed. So if you guys have seen Keith McNally's post, which is now gone, as far as what he said yesterday, which was a horrible post that he posted, which is now gone, as far as what he said yesterday, which was a horrible post that he posted, which is deleted now, and it's in page six today. I have no idea what that is a reference to. For me and everyone else who doesn't, what is that?

So he posted this picture of rockets, and he was basically like, when things are repugnant, this is when you really need to listen to both sides. And people lost their minds, like lost their minds. And I could have taken his post and made my own video on it. But I said, you know what? I'm going to show up in his comments and I'm going to write a really thoughtful comment. And I said, Keith, I've always had respect for you. I always have enjoyed your post, even when they have nothing to do with things I'm attached to. But I just want to let you know you're really uninformed. And then I listed facts, facts about the situation right now in Israel. And that comment got over 500 likes. And that's just a comment. So you don't have,

you can show up in the comments and really add something valuable. It doesn't always have to be your own thing. So let me throw something at you guys. I want to see what you make of it. Stick around. Help Wanted will be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you.

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so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see

that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it.

This goes to the question of, well, what's the point, right? Like, what is the objective for somebody posting? When I think about it, for me, I think, look, if I could speak and make change from my words, if I could see a wrong in the world and say something, and others would rise up and say, Jason Pfeiffer, you are correct. The world must change. Then I would do something. But I look around the world at people who have considerably larger voices than me, right? And I have some very moderate social following and some very moderate presence in public presentation, particularly in comparison to Taylor Swift or LeBron James or Oprah, people who truly can muster millions of people just by walking out the door, those people regularly engage in political voice and so on.

My assumption, my view on it is that they are not accomplishing anything, that they're reaching an audience of people who either already agree with them or who are really annoyed that they're saying something that they disagree with. Because otherwise, those people would affect insane political and social change, and they don't. So when I think about doing it for myself, I think the downside for me is large. I will piss off a whole bunch of people. The upside for me is zero, because I don't affect change. So I'm curious what you make of what I just said, and also what you feel you are genuinely accomplishing. I mean, Elisa, I love the intention behind what you're saying. You want to inform people. But I think practically speaking, most people who are receiving what you're writing either already have an opinion or that opinion is not going to be shaped by a social post from you. As well-intentioned as you're being in what you're

writing, I don't believe in the power of shaping people's perception by posting something on social media. So to me, it just seems about whether you're upsetting people or not. That's how I see it. Respond. I will respond. So you're putting into question the idea of an influencer. And you have a very powerful newsletter, and you have a very powerful LinkedIn following. People are following you for your point of view. And by the way, Jason, sometimes your point of view is a little edgy. Sometimes you are provocative. People who have 200 people following them are influencing those 200 people. And I'll give you a very specific example of how I know that when you have built a platform of trust, you make change. There was a very big

influencer who posted this week when this whole thing happened. I'm not going to mention her name, who posted well-intentioned post that was extremely incorrect and riding the middle, right? This is not about riding the middle. This is not about peace in the Middle East. This is about crimes of humanity against the civilians of Israel and the soldiers. Basically, that is clear as day. That is black and white. I saw this post. Someone actually, someone else, another influencer, Jewish influencer flagged it to me. She said, did you see this? And she said to me, point blank, Aliza, you need to set her straight. So I texted her and I said to her, listen, I know you mean well. I want, and I know that this, this issue, like you're not Jewish. This issue is not close to you.

You don't, I don't blame you for not knowing. This is not about shame, but let me please take a moment to explain to you why your post is really harmful. She didn't respond on text. I DM'd her and I said, hey, I just want to let you know I sent you a really important text message. Didn't hear back. Then I said, you know what? I'm going to post this video on my feed for everyone to understand why this particular rhetoric is incorrect and harmful, even when people mean well, and they're trying to join in in supporting overall, you know, the overall humanitarian crisis in this situation. And she showed up in my comments on that video, and she said, thank you so much for explaining this

to me. And then her subsequent posts on her stories were correct. And she posted something from Maya Angelou that basically said something to the extent of like, we don't know what we don't know. And it's great when we learn. So like she is a very big following. So I do believe that that is a direct impact in actually educating someone in a really kind way as to why what they're doing is actually more harm than good. And also, you know, using a platform to fundraise, I think is also like a direct link to change. Just on Instagram. I mean, not that this is like crazy millions of dollars, but, you know, I put a fundraiser for Israel's National Emergency Services Fund and I put in a modest goal of eighteen hundred dollars. It's well over thirty five hundred dollars now.

And like not that that's going to change the world. I agree. But like it is people showing support and putting their money where their mouth is. It's a game changer. Yeah. I mean, Jason, I think that you saying that you're not going to influence people is crazy because that's why you post everything you do. Of course you influence people. Of course you know you influence people. that people think into two buckets. Bucket number one is what I'm willing to change about what I think. And bucket number two is what I'm not willing to change about what I think. And I professionally exist inside of bucket one. When I reach people, it's about things that they're very actively looking to change. I'm very actively trying to understand how to do work better. I'm very actively looking to think about how I'm

approaching my career differently. Yeah, of course, the things that I say may impact people because they are literally coming to me with a malleable understanding of that subject, and they're looking for someone to help shape it. But there's another bucket, and that bucket, I think, is politics and its world events. And it's my belief that most people have a pretty firm grasp on what they feel in that area. And maybe, maybe individual conversations with people that they really trust who are authorities on that subject might shift them. If you sat down with a world expert on whatever, I'm not even going to take a stab at an example, but maybe you would say, oh, you know what? That's a good point. I didn't know as much as I thought I did about that. But I think by and large, I am by no means an authority on

pretty much anything in politics or world events. It's not my area of expertise. I'm not educated on it. I've never worked in it. What do I know? And this is another part of it because people who aren't influencers or brands are jumping in the comments we were talking about last night as if they're running for fucking Secretary of State. Who cares if at hotgirl29 wants to chime in about her opinions on this? I'm so floored by the need for people to like become professorial. It's worth talking about, is there value to escapism for people? My guess is that if I surveyed a lot of my audience, I'm not going to on this subject. But if I did, that a lot of them would be very grateful to me that I am a place that

they can go to where they're not going to be confronted by things that are very emotionally difficult. And there's a place for that too. And I think that people like that they know what they signed up for when they signed up for me, and they're going to keep getting it pretty much regardless of what happens in the world. And the times in which I need to step away and just not be saying anything is fine. That's fine. I've done it many, many times, and I'll continue to. But I don't know. I think that there's a world of people who go onto social media and it's a hellscape to them, a hellscape of people arguing about the literal hardest fucking things in their lives and in the world. And it gives them anxiety and it makes them

furious and it tears apart relationships because they saw that a friend of theirs feels differently about something that they're very passionate about and now they don't like that person they're going to follow or whatever and i think that there's a place in the world to create that's not that that's like a complete escape from that and that's not to say that me personally that like in my own personal life i tune all this stuff out or that i refuse to talk about it with my wife or my friends or whatever. No, like outside of social media, I am a full person, a whole person. But on social media, I think that I'm basically running a small media company.

And that small media company is a company that you tune into for little shows about work. And I don't think that suddenly you want a politics show. Is that okay? Yeah. So Jason, I'll tell you. So when I first started my first video on this subject, I was like, I'm not going to post this on LinkedIn. I'm going to let LinkedIn be LinkedIn. And this is, you know what? I've got plenty of other platforms. I got Instagram, TikTok, X, whatever. I have plenty of places to put this information. I didn't post on LinkedIn. One of my tweets was screenshot and shared in a beautiful post by someone who happens to be a

LinkedIn top voice. She wrote a beautiful post on why she's speaking up. She said, I normally try to put really positive content into the world. This is definitely not my normal content mix, but I feel compelled. And I also want to share Adelie's elix tweet, who I think said it really well. And I was like, okay, now we're on LinkedIn. So you have to also think about the cross-platform mix, the cross-pollination of platforms. So I think it really comes down to having your own personal brand filter, right? And that's exactly what I talk about in On Brand because it's different for everyone. And Jason, you're not wrong. You have to do what feels good to you. And you're right, by the way. Your newsletter doesn't need to talk about this. Fun fact, I have a Leave Your Mark newsletter on LinkedIn.

I didn't send out a newsletter on this. That is for career advice. That is not being, quote unquote, polluted with other topics because it's not on brand for Leave Your Mark. So I think the idea of being on brand goes for brands themselves, businesses, but people, which is, you know, why I wrote the book. So it sounds like we have a few buckets here. We have like big company brands. Then we have influencers who've created some sort of influence. And I'm going to say like, from, you know, the Taylor Swift, Jason, like down to the micro influencer

for like basket weaving with cats or whatever with a thousand people. Yeah. I follow a few of them. They're great. And then we have regular folks who's like their family and their friends, follow them. I would say, whatever. They might have a job. They might work somewhere. People from work might follow them or not. So how do you think about that differently? So this is really coming from my background in public relations, right? So I spent my career in public relations thinking through public statements, right? So we're thinking now in terms of like, you're the CEO of a company.

You have a brand that people follow. I think every single, you have to separate one. Does the CEO speak? Question one. Does the brand speak? Question two. Does the brand speak? Question two. Now, CEO speaking is a PR question. It's not a social media question. It is a public relations consideration. What is that statement? Is it fair and balanced? Should it be fair and balanced? What are the implications? For certain heads of company. There are direct financial ramifications for them

speaking out. And some of these CEOs have the ability to move economies in what they align or don't align with. Right. So that's the consideration for a CEO. For a brand, I think it's very important to think about the fact that you have all sorts of customers, right? You have people, you're not, when you take someone's credit card, you're not saying like, I'm sorry, what is your race and religion? Okay. Yeah. You can buy my brand. No, you have tons and tons of customers. So it goes back to, again, your own brand filter of what your core values are as a company and what you choose to align with. When I was coming up in brand, companies did not talk about their political views. That was not a thing. Today,

especially Gen Z, expects brands to stand for something, expects CEOs, employees expect CEOs to stand for something. But we see the brands, you know, American Eagle Outfitters putting a Jewish star on their billboard in Times Square, epically brave, epically brave. You know what? I'm sure people hated that. But you know what? As a Jewish person, I was like, good for you. And what would you say is the difference between that idea and like for a regular person who might be worried that their boss or like their colleagues are going to find that. Yes. So I speak about this in On Brand. You need to understand there is no difference between personal and professional if you are online. I don't care

if you have a private account. Anything can be screenshot. Anything can be shared. We've seen it happen. People screenshot things and send it to bosses all the time. And so what you say online can be used against you. If your boss doesn't agree, that can present a problem. So that's where it comes into play. How passionate are you? Are you joining in the conversation because you feel like everybody else is? Are you being bullied into the conversation?

because you feel like everybody else is? Are you being bullied into the conversation? Are you comfortable if your boss, if your investors, if your parents, if anyone, your spouse doesn't agree with you, is it that important for you to speak out? The answer is yes, then you're fine with the ramifications. If the answer is like, not sure, don't risk it. I'm just going to double click on that to note the opposite of it, which is that if you do not set the expectation that you're going to speak either as a brand or as an individual, then people don't expect you to. Nobody DMs me and says, why haven't you spoken out about X? Again, not just on Israel, like over the years, I've been doing this for many years, over every horrible convulsion in political and global,

you know, news, nobody is ever like, why are you not speaking out about this? Because I've set the expectation. Nobody saw me do one thing over there and now don't see it here and are wondering, well, why aren't I speaking to that? Like if you are, Aliza, to your point about consistency, if you are really consistent and if you're going to make the choice that I'm making, which honestly, I'm not sure if it's the popular or unpopular choice. I mean, you see people on social media speaking very passionately about things, but there are probably a lot more people who are not speaking.

It's kind of hard to figure out which is the more popular way to go. But if you're making the decision that I'm making, I want you to know that as long as you're consistent on it, people don't wonder where you are when you're not speaking. Yeah. I mean, I think that this conversation is important because it's a jumping off point to start thinking about this because this is not the last big thing that's going to happen in the world, in the zeitgeist, in politics. So I think, you know, if you want to be more thoughtful about your brand moving forward or how you show up in the online world, then this is a good time to kind of flesh through some of these bigger questions and say, like, how do I want to show up? Like, because it's not going to be

another, it's not if something else big happens, it's like when something else big happens. One of the things that I say in the book is thinking about who you are currently, who you want to be, and how do you make sure other people see you that way, right? So it is really about not just thinking about future posting, but doing a quarterly spring cleaning of all your timelines. Maybe there's stuff on there right now that you posted a year ago that you're like, wow, I am not aligned with that anymore. Let me get rid of that. So it really is just about understanding how your personal brand is showing up in any medium. When I became editor-in-chief and I

thought people might start looking at the things that I post on social media more, I went back and I deleted years worth of stuff that I posted. Years. All gone. Because back then I wasn't thinking about it. And I think that ultimately the big takeaway for people from this, I hope, is to think about it, right? Like, you know, you're going to make a decision and that decision is whatever. It's going to be right for you. But whatever it is, I think as long as it's done with thought and with intention, then I was going to say you can't go wrong. But at least you know what you're getting yourself into. Yes. At least you know what you're getting yourself into. Yes. At least you know what you're getting yourself into.

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and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance? Oh, I didn't sign up for that. All right. Well, talk to you soon. Thank you.