Monster: BTK - Payne Lindsey presents High Strange Season 2!

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

High Strange Season 2, Episode 1 - Friendly Universe What if the universe is not hostile, just misunderstood. We open the season by asking whether being alone ever really made sense, and why the idea of something else out there feels oddly familiar now.   Want more? Our High Strange music playlist is now available exclusively on Apple Music. Visit the link in our show notes or go to apple.co/highstrangeplaylist  To access our book list, go to apple.co/highstrangebooks  To find us in Apple Maps, go to apple.co/highstrangeguide For ad-free listening and bonus content, subscribe to Tenderfoot+ now! Members get all episodes ad-free plus bonus content throughout the season. Sign up at apple.co/highstrange. For Spotify, Google, and other Android users, visit tenderfootplus.com.   Follow along on social and the web: @highstrange on Instagram @highstrange on TikTok highstrange.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi Strange is released every Friday and brought to you absolutely free. But for ad-free listening, exclusive bonuses, and early access to episodes, subscribe to Tinderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those of IHeartRadio, Tinderfoot TV, or their employees. This episode contains references to sexual assault and sexual violence. Listener discretion is advised.

Nice to me, here. Right over here. I know you're short on time. I'll just get right to it. Can you paint a picture for me starting with that first night? I will do it. December the 26th, 1985. I had a nice day with my family.

went to bed, and in the middle of the night, became aware of the fact that there were noises around me. It felt like I was in a room full of people, and I was supposed to be in my bedroom alone with my wife. It was just something wrong. I couldn't get up, couldn't rise off the bed, and then I realized I'm not on my bed.

I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about. two feet away. I remembered those faces and they weren't human. This morning I woke up, grabbed my phone before my eyes were even open, notifications, text, alerts. I should just go back to sleep, but I don't. Weather app says we're fine.

The news app says we're doomed. Calendar app is already mad at me. Internal reminder, stand up. Drink some water. Inhale for five seconds. Exhale for seven. I need some coffee. $23 to get it delivered?

Sure, why not? Time to shower. Business on top, sweatpants on the bottom. I went to my office, which is also my house. Which is also just my laptop now. Zoom calls. One with cameras on. One with cameras off.

A few emails. A few written by me. A few written by machines. Autor reply. Instagram. TikTok. Nah, back to Instagram. Hey, chat.

Does this sound insane? Someone's launching a podcast. Someone's quitting social media. Me too. I'll be back in an hour. Did she see my story? My iPhone tells me my screen time is concerning. Do not disturb stays on 24-7.

I'm in control of my own destiny. Lunch time. Nothing in the fridge. Mmm, I'll just eat a big dinner. Pause to reply to a message I'll forget the second I send it. Scroll again. LOL, so funny. My algorithm is getting weird.

Is anyone checking this stuff? Back to work. I have more tabs open than my brain can handle. I should really clean my desktop. This meeting should have been an email. This email should have been the thought you kept to yourself. Left the office, which was my couch. Picked up some dinner.

Time for a phone call. That bartender does make a good Manhattan, though. I'll have one. Time to go to sleep. Or should I browse Netflix for an hour first? Started a movie. Stopped at 12 minutes in. Now I'm annoyed and fully awake.

How is it only Tuesday? I really need to go to sleep. For real this time. Good night. We all have a version of this. A routine. A pattern. a loop if you're not careful

a hamster wheel with better Wi-Fi work relationships, money, health, politics, algorithms deciding what we should care about today but I do my own research no you don't there's always something

filling the space always noise always motion always something new and always the same old thing we're being told something insane that the universe is math maybe even infinite,

that there's planets like ours everywhere. That intelligent life elsewhere is statistically a fact. That pilots are seeing things they can't explain. That the government studies UFOs. It calls them UAPs now. I like the first one better. That they don't know what they are, but they know they're not aliens.

Wait, what? Disclosure didn't happen. It got pushed notifications. instead. And somehow we're just bored now. One more headline, just another scroll. It's not that the question

isn't big enough. It's that our brains are exhausted. Even if aliens exist. Even if we're not alone. Even if the universe is crawling with something we can't see. Either way, my alarm's set for tomorrow morning.

And either way, I still have shit to do. This season isn't about asking if we're alone. That question's tired. And the answers are boring at this point. This season is about something bigger and stranger. It's about why one of the biggest revelations in human history lands like an item on a grocery list. A shrug, a big whoopty-do. Because maybe the strangest thing now isn't what's out there. It's us. Okay. Let's do this.

Welcome to season two of High Strange. The U.S. Navy has finally acknowledged that video is appearing to show UFOs flying through the air are real. Videos they're talking about were recorded years ago by fighter pilots. Then in 2017, they were made public by the New York Times. While refreshing our feeds, something loud happened. Actually, a lot of loud things happened. Images of that rotating thing captured by U.S. Navy aircraft. Censors locking in on the target, like a 40-foot-long,

Tick-Tac, maneuvering rapidly and changing direction. I never thought I'd get to the place where in now. I never thought 2017 would ever happen. Then I'd be part of it? Are you kidding me? This is Leslie Keane. She helped break the big New York Times story in 20, That was nine years ago.

This interview is from 2022. At the time, it almost sounded like she was getting ahead of herself, like she was talking things up. Listening back now, it's clear she wasn't predicting things. She was tracking it. Nothing really shifting, and then all of a sudden, major shift happens. I'm waiting for the moment where they would be willing to say, it's not from planet Earth.

It's not made by human hand. They have not been willing to shut that door. Tell the world that this is something not made by humans, which they know. There's not saying it like that. I mean, that might sound pretty weird to people, but I've been studying it for 22 years, and I've watched the whole evolution.

What people are saying, but they're not saying, I've gotten access to a lot of insiders. legislation that's about to pass, giving protection by the Congress to whistleblowers to be able to go before Congress and tell them what they know. Protection is coming for people. If there is going to be something released regarding materials that they may have, parts of a crashed saucer or who knows what, these people now can reveal things that they've had to keep secret in the past.

In the years that followed, everything she hinted at all started happening. Legal protections were passed. Whistleblowers were cleared to testify. I don't have any evidence or proof. The government has some UFO materials in their custody, but enough people from that world, the Pentagon intelligence agencies, say they've heard about this stuff. This is Brian Bender, who also helped break the massive 2017 UFO story.

I even asked the question in a Pentagon briefing. Some of us reporters were brought in. My question was, are you also looking to see whether there might have been secret programs in the past? Multiple layers of secrecy that might reveal things about UFOs, crash materials, that even people in the Pentagon today might not have any idea about. I'm just really interested in seeing what happens. I just want to watch it all happen. These are questions worth asking.

And then something crazy happened. A public congressional hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena. The subcommittee hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena or UAPs will come to order. Welcome, everyone. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. I flew to the Capitol and was there in person. Security was tight. Phones were checked,

badges everywhere. The whole vibe of the room felt heavier than it should have. Do I answer where the UFOs are? Good morning and welcome to the most exciting subcommittee in Congress this week, the Subcommittee on National Security of the Border and Foreign Affairs for discussion of unidentified anomalous phenomenon. I'd like to thank the witnesses on the panel today for sharing their stories on how they've engaged UAPs, which has brought attention to this matter.

Mr. Chairman, ranking members and congressmen, thank you. I'm happy to be here. This is an important issue, and I'm grateful for your time. My name is David Charles Grush. Enter David Grush. This is when the tone took a sharp turn. This wasn't a podcaster. This wasn't some guy chasing attention. I was an intelligence officer for 14 years. I was my agency's co-leet and unidentified anomalous phenomena and transmedium object analysis. as well as reporting to the UAP Task Force. Through a PPD-19 urging concern filing, I became a whistleblower following concerning reports

from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence community individuals that the U.S. government is operating with secrecy above congressional oversight with regards to UAPs. My testimony is based on information I've been given by individuals with a long-standing track record of legitimacy and service to this country. A whistleblower who formerly worked on the Defense Department's UAP task force, David Grush, claims he was denied access to information on a government UFO crash retrieval program. I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program.

Mr. Gresh, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years. Did you have any personal knowledge of people who have been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology? Yes, personally. It was very brutal and very unfortunate some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally to be quite frank. Have anyone been murdered that you know of or have heard of? I have to be careful asking that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.

In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues? Yes, personally. I just want everyone to note that he's coming forward in fear of his life to put in perspective if they were really not scared about this information. coming out, why would someone be intimidated like that? Have the U.S. government become aware of actual evidence of extra dress or otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence? And if so, when do you think this first occurred? I like to use the term non-human. I like to denote origin. Certainly, previously 1930s. I'm pretty skeptical. I don't trust anything in this town. And I think that's because

I'm from Missouri, you've got to show me. With that being said, there's been a lot of things that have been said, and so I want to get down to some specifics. At one point, you said that there has been harmful activity or aggressive activity. Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile? I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured. By UAPs or by people within the Federal Guard of Cove? Okay. So there has been activity by.

alien or non-human technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans. I can't get into the specifics in an open environment. At least the activity that I personally witnessed not to be very careful here, what I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing. My view has been that we are billions of light years away from any other. system. And the concept that an alien species that's technologically advanced enough to travel billions of light years gets here and somehow is incompetent enough to not survive Earth or crashes is something that I find a little bit far-fetched. You have mentioned that there's interdimensional

potential. Could you expound on that? I answer your first question and I'm here as a fact witness an expert, but I will give you a theoretical framework, at least to work off. Regardless of your level of sentience, right, planes crash, cars crash, and number of sorties, however high, a small percentage you're going to end in mission failure fuel, as we say, in the Air Force. And then in terms of multi-dimensionality, that kind of thing, the framework that I'm familiar with, for example, is something called the holographic principle. It derives itself from general relativity and so on mechanics. If you want to imagine 3D objects such as yourself,

casting a shadow onto a 2D surface, that's the holographic principle. So you can be projected, quasi-projected from higher dimensional space. Things showing up at certain areas and disabling our capabilities, which is disheartening. And for us, I mean, like I said, it completely disabled the radar on the aircraft when it tried to do it.

the only way we could see it is passively, which is how he got that image. So I think that's a concern on what are these doing, not only how they operate, but their capabilities inside to do things like this. You've stated that the government is a possession of potentially non-human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrash trails? It's something I can't discuss in a public setting. If you believe we have crashed craft

Do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? As I've stated publicly already in my news station interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries, yeah. Were they, I guess, human or non-human biologics? Not human, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still in the program. This was a former intelligence officer. Speaking under penalty of law, information was being hidden above congressional oversight.

When he said the words, crash retrieval program, the room went quiet. And the questions shifted. Not just about what these things are, but whether people have been hurt. Congress's job is going to be to see what it can do with the information and what it can verify. A lot of these race-sensitive programs, there's no paper trail over the next year or two. how is that going to play out? How many people will come forward? And will there be repercussions against them for coming forward?

Under the law, they're protected. You know, you just don't know what might happen to them. Because certainly there are some people within the defense world who don't want people to talk about this. One of the witnesses hate trying to keep this secret, right? To have to sit on this for years and years and years and it's changed your life, and it's caused tension and problems for you,

and some people have nightmares or PTSD. I just hope it works out. The government is notorious for reinventing the wheel. I've been a reporter long enough to come across a lot of stories where I'm like, why does this sound familiar? Where there might have been a program, there might have been a report,

there might have been something, but it was 20, 30 years ago. It's because they tried the same damn thing 20, 30 years ago. You know, you can't discount some of that in this topic, too. The guy who was in charge of that retired and didn't pass it along to the next guy or gal. It doesn't exist anymore.

It's going to be really hard for anyone in the government to hide this stuff anymore. In Washington, ghost-like objects dart across the radar screen at the CAA Traffic Control Center at National Airport for several hours. General Sanford, Air Force Intelligence Director, confirms that the objects are not secret American weapons and reiterates the Air Force's obligation to investigate.

Credible observers of relatively incredible thing. Even if you remove aliens altogether and just look at this objectively, if even a fraction of this is true, then something, unknown, is interacting with humans and causing actual harm. Under oath, David Grush claimed people were physically injured, intimidated, feared for their lives. This, for me, is when the whole thing stops being a belief debate. That's not a conspiracy question.

That's a science problem. And science is exactly where I went next. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly. what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off.

You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage. But it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.

person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor, Michael Leavengood. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Minilick Lamouba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.

Have both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Mark, Marlon, and Marston. Martin's Almermata, Morehouse College. The students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King, Senior, and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson.

To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. In 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yen.

And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bob, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be

sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples. and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild.

Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Flying saucers have invaded our planet. The whole world is under attack. Can it survive? I knew from the moment I was thinking anything that I wanted to be a scientist before I guess I even knew what a scientist was. This is Gary Nolan. He's not a UFO guy. He's a data guy, a real scientist, who lives in results, measurements, and what can and cannot be explained.

Being able to take things and put them together in ways that people hadn't thought of before and make something new. I look for a need. I say, okay, well, that's what we can't do today. And that's what we want to do. You see this and you see that, and you put it together and go, oh, I can make this. Tinkering. Today, retrospect, I generally call it the inevitable. If I were to take your blood, there's neutrophils, macrophages, NK cells, T cells, B cells. You could only look at a few cell types at a time.

So the field was crying out for an ability to do more data. This guy at the University of Toronto had invented this instrument called Saitoff. His name was Scott Tanner. He was a developer of an instrument but didn't know exactly how to apply it. He came to me and said, look, I know that you're good at turning ideas into reality. Can you help me turn this into a tool for immunologists? That instrument still sits at the top of the food chain, reading multiple events per cell. But even then, I was already thinking,

maybe there's another way I can do something. Get more data. So what I had done was found a way to scale up the numbers of things you can measure and tag at the same time, hundreds of proteins and thousands of genes at a time. It was literally a patent idea. I remember just freezing and going, where the fuck did that idea just come from?

Boom, like the whole idea, it felt like was just like downloaded into my head. I mean, honest to God, who and what you think you are is a very thin sheen of consciousness across your brain, you know, the so-called executive function of what you are. Meanwhile, there's all these things going on inside of your brain that are actually running the show. As a scientist, the argument is never about the conclusion. The argument is about is the data real and was it collected correctly. When he talks about the brain, he's not speculating.

One day, many years ago, Gary's life and career would take a very bizarre turn. I'm sitting in my office to knock on the door, and I opened the door in these two guys. They were men, guys in suits and ties, military personnel. One of them presented its credentials and said, hey, we're the CIA, and we have a whole bunch of patients that are, having some problems in my office. They laid out all of these MRIs. And they wanted to know whether or not I could detect in the blood any evidence of the

inflammatory events. He's describing damage. The MRIs didn't lie. And the timelines didn't make sense. These injuries, whatever they were, should not exist the way they do. They had white matter disease in the brain. Inarguable. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later they did.

Something like multiple sclerosis develops over years to get to the level of what I was seeing. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later they did. What had happened was across the military, these medical events. The Army's pretty organized, and the services are pretty well organized, despite what some people often think. there is a channel for unexplained events that go up the chain for review. There are analysts who said, okay, well, this is weird, we don't know what it is, and it went over into what was they called, the guys who came into my office, the weird bucket. When enough things in the weird bucket started adding up actually showing similarities,

that's where I got involved. They laid out all of these MRIs. they said some of these people said that they'd gotten close to UFOs that they got close to a UFO So when they told you this Did they literally say like they came in contact with a UFO? They said some of these people said That they got close to a UFO

And that something about the energy generated by the object Had harmed them I literally looked around I thought this is candid camera What's going on? For him it wasn't the fact fantastical stories. It was the actual data.

That's what hooked them. And once you accept that the injuries are real, even if you don't know the cause, you're forced to widen the lens. If something like this is happening now, whatever it is, how long has it been happening? Some of the stories were pretty spectacular.

I said, before I get involved, you're going to have to fly me out to meet these people face-to-face. I need to see their body language. I need to read what they're saying. Here's how they explained it. The harm that had come to the vast majority of them, the ones who said that they'd been close to UFOs or beings or things. The UFO events, energy generated by the object, had harmed them.

They hooked me with the data of all of now the probably hundreds of people that I've spoken to, including so-called experiencers and even weirder things. there's a story here that all seems to make sense but the other thing that is pretty clear is that it's probably not one thing there's something here that needs to be explained and that there's a level of reality we don't appreciate

people use the word paranormal but then immediately you think of ghosts immediately yes and I think of paranormal all science is paranormal explained there's something here that is interacting with us. That's my belief. Albert Einstein once said,

the most important decision we make is whether we believe the universe is hostile or friendly. If you believe the universe is hostile, you move through it bracing for impact. You assume friction means danger. You read uncertainty as a warning. You protect yourself first and explain it later. If you believe the universe is friendly,

you don't become naive. You become grounded. You assume that challenges are part of the terrain. Not proof that you're off course. You stay open longer. You recover faster. It's not about optimism. It's about posture.

A hostile universe requires constant defense. A friendly one requires responsibility. If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters. How you show up matters. the way you treat people matters. Not because you'll be rewarded, because you're participating in something that responds. I'd like to choose the friendly universe,

not because it's comforting, but because it demands more from me. It means that when something breaks, I don't immediately assume I'm being punished. I assume there's something to learn. When things don't go my way, I don't default to blame. I look for leverage.

This belief does not guarantee good outcomes. but it keeps me in the game. In a future that's getting faster, louder, and more automated by the day, staying in the game might be the most powerful choice we have left. After making season one of High Strange, I've heard some weird stories. Some people have been telling their story for decades, never changed, never backed down, stuck with the same script for nearly 50 years. Whitley Streber has been telling this story.

since the 1980s. Not once, not twice, for the rest of his life. Whatever you end up thinking about his experience, the consistency is impossible to ignore. And what makes his story different isn't what he claims

happened. It's how physically real it actually was. Next to me, yeah, right over here. I know you're short on time. I'll just get right to it. Can you paint a picture for me starting with that? first night?

I will do it. December the 26th, 1985, I had a nice day with my family. It was me, my wife, and our son, who was then six. Beautiful afternoon,

right after Christmas, we'd have a wonderful Christmas. Little country house we'd bought a year before, went to bed, and in the middle of the night, became aware of the fact that there were noises around me.

movement. It felt like I was in a room full of people. And I was supposed to be in my bedroom alone with my wife. It was just something wrong. Finally, I woke up, opened my eyes. I couldn't get up. Couldn't rise off the bed. And then I realized I'm not on my bed. I'm in somewhere else. This room with a arched door and a little black window in it. It was really weird. What the hair is that? There's no somebody there? Is that somebody there? I don't think I like that.

I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about two feet away. Something's a... It looks blue. It's got eyes out. Big eyes. It's 70 of eyes. I found myself

in a room full of what looked like gigantic insights. It was horrifying. I saw something that looked like it had a hood on it, near the corner and I'm a bedroom. I don't want it to be there. The head of the New York State Department of Psychiatry, Dr. Donald Klein, he had solved many criminal cases with hypnosis. The world's best forensic hypnotist

he was the real deal. The memory began to come back under hypnosis. It'd be comfortable, the last day. So pay attention to my voice, but he remained asleep. It would move very slowly and then very quickly. They were not of this world at all. That was when I thought I'm having a nightmare. They didn't go away.

Thinking, God, this is real. I became crazed. I was on a little hot, and I couldn't get off of it. I couldn't move, and I kept trying to imagine my bed. I couldn't do that either. It was so vivid. It was like real life. I remembered those faces, and they weren't human. It was sticking into my mind.

It would make a noise, like a voice. I don't know where it came from, but it was a mechanical voice. clearly. And it would repeat, what can we do to help you stop screaming? Why don't you like me? I'm hearing this voice. Jesus. What can we do to help you stop screaming? I can't help me. Oh shit. I'm sorry. Gigantic insects. Very scary. They were not silly looking at all. ever when you were a kid maybe watch a praying manis

how it creeps so gracefully and smoothly along and then wang that gets the little fly that's after that's how they moved one of them was about five feet tall the others were all very small they showed me a needle they're going to put it in the side of my head

he touches my head this thing realized then This was physical. I don't remember it ending. I don't remember when it ended. I remember waking up in the morning. I thought I'd been assaulted criminally.

I was sure I had been assaulted. As this became more clear in my mind, I was thinking, you're crazy. You've had some kind of psychotic break. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.

I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. To keep this secret for so many years, He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage,

but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people. Your predator might go up and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. Our menelick Lamuba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale.

In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's Almemata, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King's senior and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought, was a revolution. I mean, people would die. In 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.

This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yin. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-26 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boone, hi, Matt, hi, Matt.

Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Kirkie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted.

The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the Iheart radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I woke up. I felt awful. I wake up and I felt like I'd been beaten up. Tired.

I was unbelievably tired. I felt dirty. I took a shower. Went downstairs. My wife told me that I was acting strangely. Over the course of the next week, I really struggled with it. The memory began to come back. the more I remembered the weirder it got.

Went to my doctor. I described what I remembered. He says, Whitley, you're telling me you think you were taking aboard a flying saucer by little men. And I thought, holy fuck, that is what I'm saying. I've gone crazy. He said, well, why don't we do an MRI on your brain? Then we're going to do a battery of psychological tests and see where we are.

By the time another week or so had passed, the pain was very significant. I want to figure out what's going on. I went back to him. That was when he said, I had a rectal tear. Someone did this. I was scared to death. It was really painful. It was a very bad terror.

Something has physically happened to me. Stuck this thing inside me. And I fought so much. It tore my internals. Who would be creeping into my house in the middle of the night, grabbing me and doing that? The MRI scan showed that I was under a lot of stress, but I was a normal person.

It was not a head trip at all. It was very physical. The physical injuries were real. I didn't tell anyone about this. I don't know what he thought. What do you think he thought? Well, I think he might have thought had done some kind of hallucinogens.

Something has physically happened to me. I'd like to believe we live in a friendly universe, not a safe one, not a gentle one, just friendly. Because darkness, hostility, and fear are all very real. In some encounters, don't leave when the night ends. They follow you.

They change you, and they stay forever. About a year later, one of my neighbors came over to the house. He was a retired state trooper. He shows up, and he says, Whitley, I saw that happen, and I nearly dropped my teeth. He said to me, I'm just so embarrassed. I shamed the fact that I ran. And I said to him, if you try,

to help me. God knows what would have happened to you. Hi Strange is a production by Tenderfoot TV in association with IHeart Podcasts. Created, hosted, and edited by myself, Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are myself and Donald Albright. Editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner, and myself. Original score by makeup and vanity set. Sound design, mixing, and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,

Eric Quintana, Sean Nernie, and Meredith Stedman. Our cover art is by Polygon. Special thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum and the whole team at UTA. The Nord Group, Station 16, and Beck Media and Marketing. Check out the show's website at highstrange.com. And if you're enjoying the show, please help us out by rating and reviewing the podcast and share it with your friends.

Thanks for listening. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home.

That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yin. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings Podcasts, In the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

Hi, Boone. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.

Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What if mind control is real? If you can control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle? A shady hypnosis scam?

or both. Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Tenderfoot listeners. We want to hear from you. We just launched a survey and want to know about your favorite shows, your merch requests, and what you'd like to listen to in 2026. Give us the gift of your feedback, and you might be one of our winners to get free merch and a $100 Amazon gift card. Head over to tenderfoot.tv slash survey for more. Thanks again. Now here's the show. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.