Moonshots with Peter Diamandis - Elon’s Departure, Bitcoin’s Takeover & How America Wins in the AI Era w/ Anthony Scaramucci, Salim Ismail & Dave Blundin | EP #180

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Get access to metatrends 10+ years before anyone else - https://qr.diamandis.com/metatrends   Anthony Scaramucci is an American financier, entrepreneur, and political figure, and the founder of SkyBridge Capital. Salim Ismail is the founder of OpenExO Dave Blundin is the founder of Link Ventures – Offers for my audience:  You can access my conversation with Cathie Wood and Mo Gawdat for free at https://qr.diamandis.com/SummitEM  Test what’s going on inside your body at https://qr.diamandis.com/fountainlifepodcast   Reverse the age of my skin using the same cream at https://qr.diamandis.com/oneskinpod     –- Learn more about Anthony’s podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@therealanthonyscaramucci/videos  Connect with Anthony on X: https://x.com/Scaramucci  Learn about Dave’s fund: https://www.linkventures.com/xpv-fund  Join Salim's Workshop to build your ExO https://openexo.com/10x-shift?video=PeterD062625 Connect with Peter: X Instagram Listen to MOONSHOTS: Apple YouTube – *Recorded on June 30, 2025 *Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So Elon got nailed because these Elon Musk. Is the current administration still tech forward, even with Elon leaving? You're asking me the question. I want to be as objective as possible. Somebody minor in the administration can pick your eyeball out with an ice pick, drop it in a dirty martini glass. You're bleeding at the table. They're still talking to you like nothing happened.

That's Washington. China,US tension makes very little sense. I'm a believer that we have two different systems, but we have to be compatible. And if anything, I want to get deeper into the economic dependency, the interdependency with China. It looks like the entire banking and finance industry is about to get transformed. I have 70% of my money in Bitcoin. Could you imagine if I can put my Bitcoin at JP Morgan and get yield off it, and there's a structure around it that protects it? Forget it, it's over.

Now that's the moonshot, ladies and gentlemen. Everybody welcome to Moonshots. I'm here with the emperor of exponentials Salim Ismail, the extraordinary alchemist of AI Dave Blunden and our special guest for today the mooch Anthony Scaramucci. So you know last time we're together Scaramucci made some extraordinary predictions. If you know Anthony, he's amazing. He's a financier extraordinaire through SkyBridge Capital. He's the father of one of my best StrikeForce members ever,

A.J. Scaramucci. He's the creator and host of Salt. The host of The Rest Is Politics U.S. podcast voted the podcaster with the best hair and the spiciest attitude. Anthony, welcome buddy. There's a lot of PRP. Stop combing your hair for God's sake. There's a lot of PRP. Let's just talk about the hair for a second, Diamon, because I take

one excuse from you. No, no, let's not for God's sake. There's a lot of PRP that's gone on up here. Okay. Just wanted to let you know. Okay. And there's a lot of ball ancestry in that family. So, you know, this whole thing is costing a lot of money to keep it together. You got to keep it up. You know, for viewers and listeners, okay, this is Latin American dictator Brown. I was using Cuban leader black, but it looked like shit on podcasts. So I've got it. I got the right color now and I got the right colors you're making you're making Salim very

jealous I do save it sure I do save it heads perfect like Salim's and the rest of us how to get here you know why Peter the modest has hair day why his horns okay you? Because you know it. You know. Come on. You know, we both have a little bit of that mischievous streak in our personalities. Peter's the Pope of Hope now, actually. He's got the Pope hat under there. Let's jump into this episode here. We haven't even started.

For those of you who haven't started yet, on a previous podcast starring the mooch Anthony you made a prophetic prediction and I think your prediction was something around the notion that Elon would last about 10 Scaramoochies we can go back we can figure out what it was exactly those you don't wait wait I'm gonna define this stuff for those of you who don't know this obviously Anthony made a stint in the last Trump White House. He lasted 11 days. Anthony's defined that as a Scaramucci unit length, like a plank length in physics.

Yeah, you can use it in a sentence. You know, like Kevin McCarthy lasted 24.5 Scaramucci's as speaker. Prime Minister Liz Truss, 4.1 Scaramoochies. Well, do you know how many Scaramoochies Elon lasted? So it was 11.8, but I'm the official scorer of Scaramoochies, and I put out on X, we round up, we're generous here, okay? Big balls, big balls, he lasted 14 Scaramoochies.

So you gotta give the kid credit, you know? But Elon, Elon, by the kid credit. You know, but Elon, Elon, by the way, I'm a, as you know, and I said this last time, I'm a huge fan of the guy as an investor in XI. I'm an investor in SpaceX and only wish I had more money in those two things and I, and I, my heart goes out to him because you know, Trump is seductive and he got, he got seduced by Trump and I get why but then you know the disillusionment process happens when you realize what Trump really is and so there you go you know twelve Scaramucci's later Trump's on the Epstein files and away we go. So before we

move off the unit because that's gonna last hundreds of years you know the massive bridge here in Cambridge is measured in smootes and they repaint it every year, the number of smootes in a couple of years to measure the length of the bridge. Do you remember how many smootes it is? Oh, that's good. That's good. I should know. It was like 300 smootes and an ear. And an ear, yeah.

Okay, the Tuscanini, is the ice cream place still over there? Tuscanini, is that still there? Oh, God, I used to pick up basketball with Tuscanini. Yeah, it's still there. I think there are two of them actually now. Yeah, I think that's the best ice cream in Cambridge, by the way. That's good home turf stuff.

Actually, our good buddy Brian Mox used to work there and he would dump this big bag of lard into the mixing machine. We're like, well, that's why the ice cream is so good. All right, well, that's why. My favorite flavor from Tususcany was Vienna fingers. Just to show my junk food holism. Something that Peter wouldn't let me eat today in my 90s.

Sugar is a poison, guys. I think I look good for 91, though. Sugar is a poison. OK, OK. So wait, back to the unit. So it's exactly 11 days is one Scaramucci? Is that what we're defining? Some people say I was there for 10 days.

That does hurt my feelings. I really feel like I got fired on the 11th day. Since you're a math expert, Dave, if you start on the 21st and you work a full day on the 31st and you leave at 2.30, I think you get a full 11 days there. Even the president, when the president shits on me and puts out on Truth Social that I'm a major loser, he says I lasted 11 days. I sort of feel like the president deserves some official scoring as well. It's defined for all time.

Let's move on. All right. So, listen, I have a question for you. I mean, one of the things that made the beginning of the Trump administration potentially super exciting was the fact that Elon was there. And we had a very pro-technology veneer, if you would, or pro-technology thrust of using AI in the government, using knowledge and information to make decisions. And the overall question I want to have a conversation with you about, and my moonshot mates here, is, is the current administration still tech forward, even with Elon leaving? We're going to talk about things like gov.ai and all that's coming there. But what's your opinion in general there, Anthony?

that's coming there, but what's your opinion in general there? So I always try to be objective. I don't like Trump and I can explain why and I think I've done that in prior. Listen, I don't want to go into politics. I'm not doing that. I'm just trying to point out like I'm gonna say a lot of objective things, but I also want to be with self honesty that that's my personal feeling. I think they will be tech forward. I think they do have a lot of very smart guys working in the administration that are tech forward. I think David Sachs has done a great job. I'm not gonna pronounce his name well, but he's a great guy, Shri Ram Krishnan. Am I saying it right? Yeah. Okay, I think he is a phenomenal guy. He's doing a great job. I think that there's a guy

that was at Stanford that AJ, my son, knows that I believe is involved in the personnel area that's helping to staff people that are tech forward. I think he's doing a great job. And to give the president credit, the president knows that this has to be a broad scale initiative. And let me give him credit even for Trump one, where he broad scale initiative and let me give him credit even for Trump one where he was recognizing the AI race. If we had a space race in the sixties, we're having sort of an AI race, perhaps with China and a few other competitive economic adversaries. But no, but I mean, Joe Biden didn't do this. Joe Biden was not on this. You have to be honest about this stuff. So so Trump is on it I like Elon closer to the situation than not in the situation, but I also understand Washington

I have a PhD. I have an 11-day PhD In Washington scumbaggery so I can tell you exactly what they did to him. I can tell you how it got handled I can tell you who leaked what on the poor son of a bitch and how he got blown out of his seat. Okay, and I can also tell you that the hot and cold streak of Donald Trump where he gets hot on you and then he drops you like a hot potato, right? And so that's what happened.

So, but you're asking me the question. I wanna be as objective as possible. Trump is better on AI. He's better on crypto He's better generally on Dreg He's not great on batteries again if we're just being open and on our energy policy in general Or energy policy in general if we're just being honest and objective Okay, he's taking too hard

of a, sometimes Trump gets in his mind the culture war. So the culture war to him is drill baby drill. Don't tell me I need to be in an electric car, right? So his base likes the meat eating aspects of drill baby drill. There's a group in, they were in the UK last week, I think they made an anti-Semitic remark, it's like a rock band, and now they're banning them from getting their visa to come into the United States. I disagree with it, I think it's a bad policy to initialize, but that's the culture war stuff. So when Trump has got the culture war

going, he can tip himself to make a bad policy decision in areas where he's generally making good policy decisions. Every week I study the 10 major tech meta-trends that will transform industries over the decade ahead. I cover trends ranging from humanoid robots, AGI, quantum computing, transport, energy, longevity, and more. No fluff. Only the important stuff that matters, that impacts our lives and our careers. If you want me to share these with you, I write a newsletter twice a week, sending it out as a short two-minute read via email. And if you want to discover the most important meta trends ten years before anyone else, these reports are for you. Readers include founders and CEOs from the world's most disruptive companies and entrepreneurs building the world's most

disruptive companies. It's not for you if you don't want to be informed of what's coming, why it matters, and how you can benefit from it. To subscribe for free go to dmagnus.com slash meta trends. That's dmagnus.com slash meta trends to gain access to trends 10 plus years before anyone else. Let me hit you on a tweet from David Sachs, who I think is brilliant. And I feel extraordinarily positive that he's in that position. And I hope he remains there. So

yesterday, David Sachs tweets out, what is the most realistic way for the US to lower debt and increase GDP. Growth. What's the best driver for growth? Productivity. What is the expected to drive productivity most? AI. Yet over a thousand bills have been introduced into state legislators to hobble AI. We need preemption in OBBB, in one big beautiful bill. So thoughts on this? And I welcome you, Dave and Selena as well. We have to apply historical context. So let's thoughts on this. There were people that were running stagecoaches that did not want the railroads. There were people that had a horse

and buggy, they did not want the horseless carriage. There were people that did not want the commercialization of the airline industry. And on and on and on it goes. The most contemporary example I can give you is there was not one mayor, not one regulator in any urban area that wanted Uber. Not one. They fought it tooth and nail. They fought Bitcoin. The American Banking Association liquidated aspects of the Genius Act. The whole nonsense that you can't get yield on the stablecoin is an example of that. And so what ends up happening in a society, the society like in Goveler's Travels, the Lilliputians want to tie down the society. They want to tie down the innovation. And so it's incumbent upon smart leaders

to step over those people and to go directly to the American public. Now, smart leader, FDR, we need the bomb. Can't tell anybody about it. We're going to put $2 and 1 half billion, which is like almost $100 billion of today's dollars into the Manhattan Project, we're building the bomb. And so so but what's happening now is we have too much money in the political system. And just hear me out for a second.

January 2010, Justice Scalia, Citizens United, you can light up the political system, spend as much money as you want. It's your First Amendment right. That's very, very bad for the country. It's created a separate but equal democracy. Moreover, I can show you legislative agenda at the state and local level, legislative agenda in the US Congress, all skewed now to big money and special interests.

I've got a lot of money and I don't want the AI screwing up my staffing company. Let me go to my state senator, hello state senator, AI could make all these people redundant, pass a bill to slow down the AI, here's the money, right? Yep. You know, I'm Italian, right? So I always got money on me, right? So let's take the money out. Let's show people the money. These are Italian singles. See those? Everybody see them? What the hell is that?

You never know. You could get invited to Reos one night, Dave. They don't take credit cards at Reos. So quick question. You gotta be ready, okay? How long... This is ruining the system. Does everybody see that? That's depreciating as we watch. How is depreciating? How long before those pieces of green paper are no

longer part of our economy? That's very, I want to take a bet on that one Dave and Salim. You know, how long before? But you're asking the question is the dollar going away or is the piece of paper going away? The piece of paper is going away. That's another conversation whether the dollar is going away. Okay, but let, whether the dollar is going away. Okay, but let's go back to David Satterson. The same way the typewriter went away. There'll always be dollars like there are typewriters, but the dollar is going away. It's going to be on your phone.

You're going to trade with people on the phone. All right, Salim and Dave, comments. Well, let's talk about backtracking in general here because that's the political thing. I think what we all voted for was, hey, balance the budget. Doge is real. We're going to bankrupt the entire country if we don't do something. Which we will. That's what people wanted, right? And we don't want to see a big bloated bill. We want to see a big, beautiful bill. So we wanted Elon to be in there changing everything.

We didn't want him to get booted out and you know backtracking is sort of the political way right? You promise the world and then you get elected and then you you go back to bureaucracy as usual. Is that what's happening here? Well, it's too academic Dave so let me tell you what's happening okay. They call it a swamp. It is not a swamp. It is a gold-plated hot tub okay and what they do is gold-plated hot tub. Okay, and what they do is they sit in a hot tub, they pass Cubano's, they pass Krug to each other, and then they have like a zero one, you know, like your computer goes zero one. Look at you, look at my hand, they look at you, they say,

Salim, bought or can't be bought? Okay, can't be bought. Okay, fuck Saleem. Let's get opposition research on him. Let's say he's got platter problems related to his ketamine. Let's say he's this. Let's say he's that. Okay, fuck Saleem. He's not coming into the hot tub and letting us play in the hot tub. If you can be bought, here are the Cabanos, here's the crew, come into the hot tub and let's take the money from the taxpayer and put it in our pockets We're gonna insider trade We're gonna we're gonna bloat eight these bills a lot of bloat ation in the bills because it's gonna go to our constituents We're gonna feed our kids and our grandkids and we're all gonna get rich Salim. You don't want to do that

You're a scumbag. You're a bad guy. Let's go set fire to Salim's factory or his electronic vehicles You know, that's what they do. So that's the game. Don't be academic about it. You have to understand what they're doing. So prediction then, if that's the game, is David Sacks going to be there at the end of the administration or not? He's clearly not in that camp, right?

No, no, no. He can't be bought. Well, see, David's different. See, David's different. OK. Because David is a duck, okay? And so, Elon's not a duck. What do you mean?

He's got to wait in the hot tub, he's like a rubber duck. Elon is an eagle. David's a duck. Okay, so the duck is in the fucking tub there, look at me. He's moving, and he's just gliding across, no one sees how hard he's working. And he's under the radar, and he's done a couple of really smart things. Let's talk about three of them quickly. Number one, the executive order on the sovereign wealth or you want to call it the Bitcoin treasury, whatever you want to call it, the reserve. Beautiful job on that.

For sure. Let's not make it partisan. Let's convince these people it's like oil. There's no partisan debate on oil. Beautiful job on that. Number two, I can't get everything. I can't get everything I want. The American Banking Association has brought the loop. They brought the Vaseline and the microwave oven to the table, and they're going to jam me. And so I can't get everything. So what I got to do is I got gotta go for 80% of it. Okay?

That's David Sacks. And then David Sacks, I don't need any credit. Look at me. I don't need any credit. He has hardly any face time with the president publicly. Really? Okay? Well, no, no, no.

I'm not saying he's not interfacing with the president, but they're not infinite pictures. Elon hurt himself when he jumped on Air Force One every weekend with the president. Elon hurt himself when he's standing in the cabinet room with the president. Elon hurt himself when he's in the Oval Office with the president. Because these people suck, okay? And they're envious, jealous people. And you know why Washington sucks?

Because the stakes are so small. Let's take out the money again. See the money? Okay. The Washingtonian people are not on the green team. You guys are on the green team. I'm on the green team. If you hated my ass, but there was $500 million on the table, we could split it, but we got

to fake liking each other, we're going to do that. But not in Washington. There's blue teams red teams purple teams And if you're too close to the president, I'm envious The stakes are small. I'm gonna try to pick your eyeball out with an ice pick You know Trump said something to me and Peter he said this to me on a Wednesday when I was in the White House You know, I know I was only there for one Wednesday So I know it was a fucking Wednesday.

And what he said to me on that Wednesday is he said, you know, this is a tough place, man. I thought I was a killer. I thought I was a billionaire real estate guy from New York. But these people are nuts down here. I mean, the secretaries will pick your eyeball out. You know, Trump said to me that somebody minor in the administration could pick your eyeball out with an ice pick, drop it in a dirty martini glass like it's an olive, you're bleeding at the table, they're

still talking to you like nothing happened. That's Washington. Does everybody understand that? So Elon got nailed because he's Elon Musk. David Sacks, he's moving like a duck. So he'll last in the administration as long as he wants to. So I think the duck analogy though, I really feel like Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk are about to become the most powerful people on the planet because of AI. There's never been anything like this before. David Sacks is a duck with AI inside. I don't know how that makes your analogy. But no, but he's a brilliant duck I'm just making a point about a duck is that he's moving quietly through the water He looks like he's effortless, but he's working away. Yeah, and he's really smart. He's good on policy He's good on

Commerciality he understands the significance and the importance of AI being the tip of the spear for the future of American productivity the importance of AI being the tip of the spear for the future of American productivity. All right. I want to hear, I want to hear Celine. He's not pissing people off. Celine, Celine, what are your thoughts on all this, buddy? So Moot, you mentioned earlier that the wealthy guy goes to the state senator and tries to get a bill to, how do you at the federal level, if you're David Sacks, counteract that and get AI navigated properly the way it should be.

Yeah. Well, he's smarter at it than me, but the way you would do that is cautiously. The way you would do that is you get a little bit of help from your friends like Elon and Zuckerberg that understand the issue. And the way you do that is you catch the president and you explain to the president that he's going to get a lot of accolades and he's going to get a lot of attention as a visionary if he helps you push that agenda. And Trump is very smart that way. Again, he's got great political instincts. And so, so I think David is doing all those things and more. And so back to the first question, is this administration tech forward,

tech positive? It is because you have people like David in the room that actually understand the stakes being so large and they're willing to take the nicks and gnats to get the thing done. And so I applaud the guy. I think the guy is, I don't know him. I mean, I think you guys probably know him personally. I mean, I've met him a few times. I will say this to David Sachs, if he listens to your podcast, he did bring up the Scaramucci as a unit of time on All In. I was very happy about that. Of course, I retweeted that. I think it's very important that we have, you know, you have like E equals MC2, measurement of like time and relativity.

I think you have to have a scientific truth. For all time, buddy, for all time. Yes, I think you have to have a unit of time named after you in your lifetime. So we're recording this on June 30, July 4th coming up. There's supposed to be the release of AI.gov. And so this idea that the government, which has been sub-linear, the most inefficient,

you know, part of humanity at any point, maybe we're the most efficient of the most inefficient part of governments, but could be using this for every agency, for the FDA, for the FAA, for the DOT, for the DOE to move things rapidly through and to optimize things. Do you think that's going to happen? An extent of that thing is going to happen. So there's a great book behind you, Dr. Sperling, that talks about the importance of the use of the FDA. move things rapidly through and to optimize things. Do you think that's going to happen? An extent of that thing is going to happen. So there's a great book behind you called Bold. You also wrote a book called Abundance. And in

those books, if it was going to happen the way you wrote about them, it would be revolutionary and transformative. It would unleash a wild amount of productivity and it would probably solve things like our imbalances, our credit imbalances, debt, et cetera. But it can't happen like that because we live in a world with lots of different people and we live in what Churchill said, the worst form of government until you consider all the other forms of government. And so it's not going to happen like that. Can you get 30% of it this year, 50% or 60% of it in years coming?

Yes, you can. The big problem right now for that movement is the complacency. And you say, well, what do you mean by the complacency? We're not facing a kinetic or ideological threat. We're not in the Cold War. It is not World War II. Now you may think we are, and I may think we are, and I may read a presidential daily brief

that says that we are, but I'm talking about the hoi polloi of the American people. Remember the American people on the evening of the election, the most searchable term on Google was, did Joe Biden drop out? That, the most searchable term on Google was, did Joe Biden drop out? That was the most searchable term. People are like, well, wait, wait, who's the, that's my little sister running against Donald Trump. Who's that person? And Joe Biden dropped out? Okay, what are you talking about? Okay, so that's the American people. So you have to understand where the American people are. One of the biggest mistakes you can make

in politics is that you hang out with really smart people like, one of the biggest mistakes you can make in politics is that you hang out with really smart people like the three of you and you get the confirmed biases of the people you're hanging out with. You got to go to the man or woman on the street and you got to talk to them, you got to go, hey, excuse me, here's the microphone, are we facing an ideological or existential threat? They say no. And that slows down everything. When Sputnik went off in October of 1957, the man on the street said, holy shit, we got to get our shit together.

And then Eisenhower said, holy shit, we got to get our shit together. And then they bring in the German scientists, and then they hand the ball to Kennedy, and we get our asses on the moon, the moonshot, right? But that's because the people feel the threat. Okay, so you have to get- Because the media made them feel threatened, right? It all comes down to sort of the dystopian muse that our media spreads and what are they going to be teaching you about tomorrow? But this is why you need in this country at this moment,

you need a transcendental, you need a transformative leader. See, Lincoln understood that the slavery issue was an original stain in the Constitution. And so therefore, he had to make sacrifices to re-knit and refashion the country to align the idealism of that document with the reality of what was going on on the ground. We are now at another moment like that in our history where we have to clean things up.

The establishment very, very selfishly has taken advantage of the treasure of the American people. And so they need reform. They need constitutional reform. I submit to you guys rhetorically that there are 27 amendments to that Constitution. The document's 235 years old. There's 27 amendments. Do the math. You're picking up an amendment every eight or nine years, and yet we have not had a significant amendment since 1993. That was a procedural one. And the big amendment was 59 years ago, the 65 Voting Rights Act. But that's a living document, guys. That document is supposed to be refitted for every generation, but these sons of bitches won't move on the document. You got to reform and gerrymandering.

You have to end Citizens United. You have to put a budget process back in place where we're not running this stuff on continuing resolutions or big, beautiful spending bills. Yes, I would vote for you. We're not doing that. Yeah. So, but we have to do that because we have to re-engineer, renew the promise that America is for the rest of the people.

I always think of the constitution of software. You have to update software occasionally to keep up with all the- 100%. The founders need that. They knew that. They framed it up. This is my issue with the originalist. Quick question back to the Tech Forward question. If the administration is so tech forward, why the reticence on solar? On solar? Culture war. Culture war. Straight off culture war. Drill baby drill. Amen. We're meat eaters. We watch Fox News. You like F-150s. By the way, I don't want an electric stove. Give me the propane. Let's fire up the shrimp on the barbecue. So it's a culture war issue. You see, if you said it the way Elon Musk could say it, he'd be like, guys, our future

is in the sun. It's not in what died before us that's in the ground. Our future is what's right in front of us every day and night. And we can channel that now. We have the capability, we have the resources, and we have the efficiency of software. We can move the UPS truck around the neighborhood more efficiently. We can move the plane in the sky more efficiently.

We have so many different things at our disposal now to make this energy renewable and to clean up. You see, I think you're going to be sitting here someday, people that are related to us, 100 years from now, say, these assholes, 1850 to 2150, they're gonna call that the dirty period of civilization. Say, these assholes were burning fossil fuel and they were ruining the earth, these idiots.

It was like they had an open garbage pit with the atmosphere. What the hell were these people doing okay and the same way that we hate slavery they're gonna take down statues of us they're gonna say these assholes try to destroy the earth and the good news is we moved to carbon-free we moved to solar we moved to the future and so what Musk is trying to say and he said it beautifully on Twitter the other day this is where we got to go this. This is where the future is. By the way, the Chinese are there, guys. Everyone, as you know, earlier this year, I was on stage at the Abundance Summit with some incredible individuals, Cathie Wood, Mo Gadat, Vinod Khosla, Brett Adcock, and many other amazing tech CEOs.

I'm always asked, hey, Peter, where can I see the summit? Well, I'm finally releasing all the talks. You can access my conversation with Kathy Wood and Mogadot for free at dmandus.com slash summit. That's the talk with Kathy Wood and Mogadot for free at dmandus.com slash summit. Enjoy. I'll ask my team to put the links in the show notes below. On June 5th, Elon tweets out, is it time to create a new political party in America

that actually represents the 80% in the middle? He puts it out as a poll, and he gets an 80% positive response. Then on June 6th, he says, the people have spoken, a new political party is needed in America to represent 80 80 in the middle And exactly 80 of people agree. This is fate

Again, elon's tweet. Um or his post again. I I wish I wish x would come up with a verb Instead or keep tweeting. Um, and I remember I texted you right away anthony because I was like, oh my god this is the you know, this is the injection point where hopefully a third party can come into existence. They name it the American Party. Do you think this has a hope? Well, you got to tell me who's going to find it. If you tell say we're gonna have a 50 billion dollar endowment to start a new party, and then we have to have a convention. We have to put the platforms and planks together of what that party's actually going to represent. But you gotta have 50 billion dollars.

Let me tell you what these guys did. And they did it right after the Ross Perot election. They got the shit scared out of them. Ross got 19.9% of the vote 33 years ago. They went to each other and said shit this sucks. Can't have a third party guys. So I hate you, you hate me. Let's get in bed together in the hot tub and let's conjoin and let's strengthen our duopoly. So we'll make it impossible through voter registration, signatures, petitions, lawsuits.

I'm gonna let you gerrymander your district, you're gonna let me gerrymander my district. We're gonna strain out all the people. And so we're gonna make it as impossible as we can to start a third party. Ask Bobby Kennedy. Ask Donald Trump in the year 2000 when he tried to become a reform party candidate for president. He looked at it and said

okay there's no way they've locked this thing down we have a duopoly. So you would need a duopoly busting strategy, 50 billion dollars, five zero billion dollars, the right people operationally, the right tech people dollars the right people operationally the right tech people the right people on software And you could do this But then you still have to appeal to one of the other two parties because they have the machinery they have the architecture And Trump did this Trump took over the Republican Party. He decapitated the party Hostile takeover his third party is MAGA and he inserted it on top of the Republican Party. He decapitated the party, hostile takeover, his third party is MAGA, and he inserted it on top of the Republican Party. He took operating software to use Saleem's

analogy, and he overlaid it on the old tech, okay? And he created a new party. Now, that party, unfortunately, is too populist, and that party's policy decisions are driven by the culture war, and they're driven by one other important thing and that's Donald Trump Donald Trump was asked during the Iraq. I'm sorry the Iran bombing Donald Trump was asked during the Iran bombing What are the policies and principles of MAGA and Trump said whatever I want them to be Okay, and that's a personality cult. That's not a party. That means that party is going to be up for play in 2028 because there's no other person on his team that can say that and get away from that. So if I was Elon Musk's political strategist, I would say, Mr. Musk, what is the platform? Who are we getting the $50 billion

from? We got to have a convention, so it's a principle-based party, which means we're going to have a little bit of a love and tug in the party and some consensus building. Then we elicitate what the platform is to the American people, and we go out and we explain to the American people the rigged system of the duopoly. And we got to get to them on Instagram and Facebook and Snapchat and all these other places. And X. And X. And guess what happens?

Because you guys are entrepreneurs. We're all zero to one people. You can go zero to one and you will liquidate those two parties and you'll force them back into the middle And so we should get things right and that party should be this isn't left or right But this is right or wrong for America isn't Andrew Yang solar policy. We need good space policy We need good crypto policy. We're not gonna make it partisan I know by the way that guy's trying to lobby me to stop something from happening

We got to figure out a way to stop that from happening. See that? Isn't Andrew Yang trying to do some of this with the forward party? Okay. I love Andrew Yang. He should be part of that party that Elon Musk is putting together. Andrew is correct about a lot of the things that he's saying, but he doesn't have the financial muscle to pull that off.

You know, those bills you had pretty much added up to what you were talking about. No, no, no, no. Maybe you could back them up. Look man, these bills man, we've lost in 30 years, we've lost 50% of the purchasing power. Look at this shit. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, I mean look at this, right? Yeah, throw that one away, because that's worthless now. You know, but look, you know, Ben Franklin, who was to me, my favorite founding father, because he was so cheeky, right? But Ben Franklin, if he were alive today, he'd be like, okay, we got to start a new party, wake people up.

Okay, Ben Franklin wrote a lot of different things, but my favorite thing that Ben Franklin wrote, he wrote a small book called Fart Proudly. Did you ever hear the book? No, no, no. No, no. Is that on Amazon? He talked about the joy of flatulence. And of course you may remember this from the Isaacson biography. We had no money, the Continental government had no money. They were over in France together

sleeping in the same room, him and John Adams, and he was ripping farts on Adams to the point where Adams had to open the window and he was freezing his ass off. He called himself a colt. And they argued about it for 30 years after that thing happened. Well, they didn't know about Putin back then. Franklin was my guy because Franklin was about fart proudly and tell Elon, let's start the fart proudly party. Okay, fart for freedom as Franklin would say, fart for liberty. Because what you got to do is you got to get these young people involved, okay? And they don't like what's going on any more than you and I. Okay, so get them involved. And I'm just, for viewers and listeners at

home, I'm just showing the book here. Right there, Writings of Ben Franklin, you never read in school. You see it says, Fart Proudly proudly you can buy that book on Amazon and it's great essays on the power of flatulence and what is Franklin's point don't take yourself that seriously fellas okay let's get in there let's win together let's help each other let's share the credit we don't have you know Trump's big issue he's got to be the one guy in the spotlight you know no other people big issue, he's gotta be the one guy in the spotlight, you know? No other people could be on stage with him. What did Reagan say?

You can get anywhere you want in life as long as you don't care who gets the credit. A quick aside, you've probably heard me speaking about fountain life before, and you're probably wishing, Peter, would you please stop talking about fountain life? And the answer is no, I won't, because genuinely we're living through a healthcare crisis. You may not know this, but 70% of heart attacks have no pre-seed no pain

No shortness of breath and half of those people with a heart attack never wake up You don't feel cancer until stage 3 or stage 4 until it's too late But we have all the technology required to detect and prevent these diseases early at scale That's why a group of us including Tony Robbins, Bill Kapp, and Bob Haruri founded Fountain Life, a one-stop center to help people understand what's going on inside their bodies before it's too late and to gain access to the therapeutics to give them decades of extra health span. Learn more about what's going on inside your body from Fountain Life. Go to fountainlife.com slash Peter and tell them Peter sent you. Okay back to the episode

Anthony let's jump into us versus China in particular, you know, one of the things we've been Discussing on our WTF episodes with my moonshot mates here is in fact, you know The chip race and the chip wars going on the notion that by 2030 China's gonna be building the entire equivalent of US electric energy production, the entire for the US country every year in China, that they are running away with energy production and could potentially be running away with chip production and AI. What are your thoughts about that?

Is the current administration taking the right tack? Are they too slow? Should we be unifying on these fronts? Well, again, again, this is stuff that we're fighting over that we shouldn't be fighting over. Like the people on this call, we know we should not be fighting over Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a nonpartisan issue the way oil is. If I said to you we have rare earth minerals in our reserve, if you're a Democrat are you going to fight that or you're Republican? Hey, I don't want rare earth minerals. So we got to get certain things into a nonpartisan category of policy. I hate you Peter, you're a Democrat. I'm a Republican. I hate you. But we're both

going to agree on this. We need to compete with China on the issues that you're a Democrat. I'm a Republican. I hate you. But we're both going to agree on this. We need to compete with China on the issues that you're describing. For the record, I used to be a Democrat and I would... No. Yeah. No, no, no. I love you, Peter. You're like one of my brothers.

I mean, you're like my brother from another mother. I love you too, buddy. You've been a great dad to my son, better than me actually, because he actually listens to you. Kids don't listen to me. I brought more props. Can I show another prop? Look, here we go. Yeah. This is the Eurasian Century. It was written by Hal Brands and this is a great book about Eurasia. And of course, if you know your MacKinder, the

Oxford historian, what did MacKinder say in the 1850s? He said, who's ever controlling Eurasia is going to control the world because it's the largest landmass Slightly larger than Africa, but you've got tremendous resources there and the Chinese Understand this Henry Kissinger understood it Zibniew Brzezinski understood it Jimmy Carter understood it Reagan had it explained to him and then he understood it But we're not doing that anymore. Okay? And we got to understand this and we got to make sure that we're part of this. So when you're building the Silk Road, when you're building that whole thing out, the belts and suspenders of it, okay, the Chinese are not thinking in two-year election cycles, four-year

election cycles. They're thinking in 100-year periods of time. That's why people say, oh, the Chinese are going to go after Taiwan. Why would they? I have to do it right now. The Chinese are expecting in the next 20 to 50 years that Taiwan falls in their lap the way Hong Kong did. They don't have to fight over Taiwan. By the way, just for news flash, that's an 80-mile straight. It's a very difficult straight, and there's a lot of mountainous terrain on that island of Formosa. It's not an easy thing to do. And it was a 20-mile straight in D-Day.

Think about all the logistical problems we had there. That's four times. And you've got to get ground troops in there Okay, and so they're not gonna do that. What they're gonna do is do what you just said. They're gonna out produce They're gonna be way more productive than us and they're gonna get the power through the soft power This is something I disagreed with with Elon about that. Okay, the Doge thing going after USAID, I understand there's some graft and I understand there's some fraud in there. I know that people are not perfect, but we need our soft power to preserve our currency advantage. We need our soft power

to preserve our brand. The Chinese have a shitty brand. Okay? You know, I was at the Chalk History Festival last week, some old lady. My demo, at the chalk history festival last week some old lady my demo by the way guys is like 70 to 90 okay, that's my demo if the women are 70 to 90 they love me My wife is like that's fucking great. You know no one no one below 70 likes you so I'm no problem, right? So the ladies raising her hand and she says the question about China and how should we think about China? They're pumping money into Africa. They're pumping money into Eurasia How should we think about it? And the answer is they're getting a Demultiplication from their money because their culture sucks. They're not a free country

So when they put a dollar in on a multiplication level, it's like 0.3 when the Americans put in a dollar, because we got Madonna and Bruce Springsteen and Peter Diamandis, that sexy Greek, when we get those guys in the mix, okay, we get an exponent, okay, because people love America. Now, Trump's hurting our brand because he's trying to be too aggressive with adversaries and with allies. But you gotta go back to USAID, use the soft power flex on people. And by the way, just think about this,

we have the international stars. Europe creates international stars, China creates no international stars. Because anytime they create a star, they arrest them, they put them in a jail, and they say you gotta submit to the Communist Party. Okay? So we have a material advantage over them, and we have to be smart about the exercise

of that advantage around the world. Salim, what do you got there? Can I give a counterpoint here? In a world of abundance, a China-US tension makes very little sense. If it was a zero-sum game, yes, but in an abundance world, once you have abundant energy, so how does that play into your thinking? Because you're one of the few that can see that tension clearly and also see where the technology is going.

No counterpoint needed. I am in agreement on that. If you've heard my other interviews, I'm a China rationalist. I have taken Kissinger's view of China. I would recommend that book on China from Henry Kissinger. I'm a believer that we have two different systems, but we have to be compatible. And if anything, I want to get deeper into the economic dependency, the interdependency with China. Because what we find through 5,000 years of recorded history, the more economically interdependent we are, the harder it is. See, when Trump is tariffing them, we're going to tariff us, that's going to make us go apart.

No bueno. You're way better getting deeper with China, which will stall China from making decisions to hurt you, and vice versa. And I'm not saying they're not adversaries. I'm not saying they're not stealing our intellectual property. I'm not saying I'm a China realist, but I think it is very, very important that we figure out a way to get closer to China and not have these separate silos. These separate stovet tops would be very dangerous and very bad long-term for the world.

I hate to do that. Have you heard my one-line summary of China? Go ahead. Yeah, I think China, the native capitalism of the Chinese people is so ridiculously high that they need socialism to keep a lid on it. Otherwise, they'd sell their grandmother for a profit. Well, it's probably true. You know China better than misalignment. socialism to keep a lid on it, otherwise they'd sell their grandmother for a profit.

It's probably true. You know China better than the Muslim. I would say this to you, that the forces in China are different on the ground than people expect. There are seven Balkanized provinces that are being glued together by 90 to 100 million people in the Chinese Communist Party. There's a lot going on in there. The Uyghurs, the situation with Tibet, everybody's got a VPN, 10% of the Bitcoin mining still getting done in China, 15% of the transactions still getting done in China. There's a lot going on in China. And you know, the Chinese may take Taiwan, or the Chinese may morph into something totally different than is existing in China right now. We don't know. But if you were sitting with a Sovietologist in 1987, they would have said to you, well, the Berlin

Wall is going to be there for 2,000 years, and it's going to be like the wall in Jerusalem. And then the other thing that's going to happen is the Soviets are going to be there forever. And then two years later, bada bing, bada boom, the thing's down, and the flag's coming down and the Russian flag's going up, Christmas Day of 1991. Okay, and so you don't know what's going to happen. But what you need to do is focus on us, fix the inside of us,

this way the people on the outside will love us more, fix the inside of us, and let's give the Chinese a break because they got their own problems. Okay, we don't need to be overly fighting with them while we're trying to fix the inside of us. So recent news, Trump says he's gotten a group of wealthy individuals together to buy TikTok.

Yeah, not going to happen. Not going to happen. It's going to stay in Chinese hands and it's going to stay as something that people play with every day. It's just going to stay status quo? I think so, yes. Unless Trump wants to pull the plug on that. First of all, that is weapons grade.

That is weapons grade surveillance software. That is about as good a spyware as you can get. Or influenceware. I was just going to say that. It's influenceware. And so it is moving a nation. They've got people thinking that the moon landing is fake. They've got people thinking Osama Bin Laden did some good things. I mean, they they got 31% of the boys in this country below the age of 30 that think that we faked the moon landing. Okay, so TikTok is a powerful source in China,

but Trump's bought and paid for by the guys that own TikTok with the Chinese. And so he's not gonna bust them, okay? And that's the big problem in the country. Okay, because Trump cares about two fucking things. He cares about money. And he cares about attention. He wants to be on the top fold of your newspaper. And he wants the four of us talking about him. So he will do he's like a he's a reality television producer, he'll come up with the project and the script every day to get you And that's what you do. I don't watch the news. It couldn't pay me enough to watch what these producers are feeding us, all those dystopian news. I do watch our podcast. And for those of you who are on our podcast, I do watch the podcast.

And I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. It couldn't pay me enough to watch what these producers are feeding us, all those dystopian yous. I do watch our podcast, and for those of you who are on our podcast today, this is the real news, the technology that's going to transform every aspect of our lives. It's not edited. You're not getting a homogenized version.

You're getting people on the ground telling you what they really think. Talking about farts all the time. Fart proudly. Okay, that's what I want. I want it to be the Franklin party and I want the symbol to be fart proudly, fart for freedom and fart for liberty. You're upset with the status quo, fart proudly.

Okay, all right. Dave, what's your thoughts on all of this? Oh God, so many thoughts. So on China, well first on this interest party idea, one of the things Donald Trump figured out is that voter turnout turns out to be more important than voter appeal and the way you get voter turnout is to whip people up, get them super super angry or super excited or super motivated to show up. So if you grab the middle 80% of America, which would be the perfect outcome, I'm not

denying that, that would be phenomenal, But what tends to happen is if it rains a little or it's cold that day, they don't show up to vote. Where that really hits you is in the primary. I mean, everybody was shocked when Donald Trump got elected the first time that he got through the primaries. But when you get a big support base, it can only be a couple percent, but they show up. That's what dominates the primaries. So the primary system has fundamentally got some really weird behavior early on but then you get this centrist party that has sort of lukewarm passion and so that's why you see it merge with one party or the other at the finish line all the time is because it can't stand alone in the middle it gets

co-opted by by someone who's really passionate about immigration or really passionate about human rights really passionate about human rights, really passionate about abortion, whatever it is, they show up to vote. And the centrists kind of sit at home watching TV. So it's something that- I agree with you, but let me give you a counter narrative. I'd like Dave to react to it. So everything you just said is true.

But now you've got Elon Musk on the team and he's a great engineer. And you just told us what the problem is. So now how do we engineer out of that problem? Can we create entertainment content? Can we create policy content? Can we create educational content where we ignite a fire under the most powerful voting block in the country? Let me tell you about that voting block.

There's 140 million people in this country. They vote exactly the same way every election. Most powerful voting block. You know who that is, Dave? The non-voter. Right. They've given up on the system. But you're telling me that we don't have smart programming, we don't have smart entertainment

people. that we don't have smart programming, we don't have smart entertainment people, we don't have ideas through TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, where we can draw people in. You're saying that they're just too lukewarm, they don't wanna fix the country. You don't think bankruptcy could be a sell to a very large group of people like immigration and abortion. You don't think debt super cycle. You don't think a, hey I can get you more per capita income if we're

moving in the AI based world. You may have a four-hour workweek and you may be richer than you were with a five-hour workweek. If you're telling me none of those ideas will sell Dave, then I'm with you. We are fucked. Let's take the canoe and ride it over the Niagara Falls. Well, we don't have to be fucked. I don't think that national bankruptcy motivates people to vote, which is pathetic because it's the biggest crisis. I mean, it is. You made me write about that. Yeah, no, but it's obvious that we'll run the debt up to any level.

The way to win elections is to run up the debt even more, buy a bunch of votes, and then get reelected. It's a perpetual cycle that's going to lead to disaster, and people just don't react to it. But I think there is a fix, which is make it easier to vote. And if Elon Musk was really playing the cards right, he would just stay ducky in the hot tub and say, hey, why don't we use gov.ai to make it much easier for people to vote, especially in primaries early on, and get that centrist, you know, rational, middle-of-the-road, broad-thinking American to actually show up and vote in a primary, then you get

better candidates. Everybody agrees. Like, you survey everybody. Ninety-plus percent agree that we're not getting great candidates. Why is that? And you dig in the cause. One of them, the job is too loaded with baggage, risk, you know, like actual getting shot risk, but also social media risk. Like try to de-risk the job so great people want the job, but then the bigger thing, make it much easier. You know my policy here, Dave, anyone who wants to run for president should automatically be disallowed. It should be like a drafted position. Alan Greenspan said that, you know, but again, the incentives are wrong. Dave is right about everything he's saying, but then again, the question is, can you get, like, they'll vote down the voting. Let's just be very clear about that. They don't want the people to

vote. They've got themselves in these perpetual silos. Well, gerrymandering, like you said. Gerrymandering. Politicians are picking the voters in this country. The voters don't pick the politicians. So they've got a system in place. Let me say an Andrew Yang thing here because you guys brought him up. Andrew said to me once, and I checked the statistics, they're true, the politicians in Washington have a 14% approval rating. The Congress has a 14% approval rating. Yet, the incumbent, when he runs for reelection, he has a 95% reelection rate.

It's like being a chef at a really bad fucking restaurant and you're getting a one-star Yelp rating, but you never get fired. And this is because of the voting, David. So you're telling me with the 50 billion, we couldn't get Musk's help, and we couldn't say to people, listen, we gotta get more people voting.

If more people vote, we'll liquidate the extremists in the society, we'll make it better for all of us. You don't think, listen. No, I think that can work. Australia has mandatory voting. You know, and you get fined if you don't vote. Now that's interesting.

You need that. You need mandatory voting like Australia. But again, that requires a big change. I've got a bigger structural question to ask you, Anthony, which is that in 2015, Yale did a survey and they found that the US is not a functioning democracy in any way, shape or form, meaning that no amount of voter willpower can result in legislation. Gun control is an example where 84% of the people want gun control yet we can never get the legislation passed for all of the factors you have. So there's headwinds here that go

much much deeper than even the political party system and how do you defeat and counteract that is the question I've got because I think you need a whole new system. Revolution baby. Well you know listen I want to go back to Dave. I think you need a whole new system. Revolution baby. Well you know listen I want to go back to Dave. I think Dave's on to something. He's saying something that we all I believe is very true. You can't get the attention, you can't get the passion going on the stuff that we would need them to get going on right? But the question is could you publicize and explain to people the necessary steps of reform? See, I don't want a revolution. I would like reform. Okay, see, what's happening right now

is fat cats have taken control. They lit up the government through Citizens United. They got this great corporate welfare system going, and they're all shooting for 50 million dollar weddings and a trillion dollar net worth Okay, that's great But every time you do that in a system you break the system and you get the revolution And you get a guy like the kid here in New York that wants a socialism takeover production and all this stuff That's happened throughout American history Who stopped it Teddy Roosevelt stopped it. The name progressive came from Roosevelt. He was a Republican. He went to the Robert Barons and Fat Caste

and said, knock it off. You're taking too much economic rent from the society. You're worth a lot of money. You're not going to get an extra yacht. Calm down. We got to help the lower middle income people feel like the system is fairer for them and that they have an aspirational arc of a potential career. Knock it off. He busted Rockefeller. He busted the banking trust. He busted somebody other trust and he did it. Reagan did it. Reagan went to AT&T with Judge Harold Green and said, knock it off. Okay. Okay, sitting on all this technology that we need, knock it off. And in 1984, we busted AT&T. Okay, the irony is these seven big tech companies, they don't exist if we don't bust AT&T.

So guys, knock it off. So let me take a chill. Let's cut the funding. What's that? We're all techno-optimists on this podcast right now. I do believe that technology is what's going to drive GDP. It's going to drive, it's going to ultimately be the mechanism by which we solve our debt crisis. But we have a lot of people who watch this podcast that

are asking about the implications of AI for the lower and middle class. How can you make AI for everyone? How can you get this technology for everyone? What are your thoughts there? Because I think a lot of us are just like super excited about what's coming on the AI front, but it's skating over the majority of the public thoughts.

So I am a big believer in equal opportunity. And I am a big believer that we need a package of services in this country that provide people with a platform of equal opportunity. So what's in that is health care, education, and AI. And just like we did with social Security and we did with other things, we have to deliver to the kid when he's born the promise that he's going to get fairly educated. And you know this because you've worked with Cahan Academy and others. We can use AI, we can

use visuals, we can use, we can take the smartest teachers in the world and bring them into every fifth grade classroom in the country. And we can have an hour a day with the smartest teacher in the world for a fifth grader, the Steven Spielberg, the George Lucas of teaching. Peter Diamandis, and we can talk to the kid. And we can almost have a hologram at this point

where the person's actually there with them. And it's free and it's fully democratized. Okay, so that, now the teachers' unions are going to be upset with that and they're going to stop that. Okay, so that's why you need the third party. Because Democrats say, I can't do that because I'm tired of the teachers' union. And the Democrats, I mean, they're funny people, you know, we're going to block Elon. Last time I checked, does Elon make electric vehicles? I don't know. Give me a news flash if he doesn't. They kick him out of the electric vehicle summit?

Well, the UAW got on a phone with the Biden administration. We know it wasn't Biden because he's brain dead. So they got on with somebody and they said, oh, hey, he can't come to the electric vehicle summit. So you kick him out of the electric vehicle summit? One of the stupidest decisions they could have ever made. And they kicked him out of the electric vehicle summit. And they said, well, you know, I he can't come to the electric vehicle summit. So you kick him out of the electric vehicle summit.

One of the stupidest decisions they could have ever made. I mean, come on, what are you guys? So you bunch of imbeciles, you want the people in the tent. So when they piss, they piss outside the tent. That's what Johnson would say. You don't want the people outside the tent, like Bobby Kennedy and Elon pissing back into the tent. What are you guys doing?

What are you doing? Yeah. Okay. So very simply, you need a bill. You want to talk about big, beautiful spending? Let's spend where there's a multiplier effect. We know bridges, roads, tunnels, and airports, they create a multiplier effect. We know in the city of Boston, where Dave is sitting at MIT, we know that the Big Dig had a 5x overrunning cost. Insane. But it totally gentrified and created a new ecosystem in Boston. It created better exurbs, better suburbs,

better living standards, higher disposable income, easier access to the airports. And even though it was five times the cost, it generated six to eight times whatever the cost was in terms of positive externalities for the area. So we need a form factor like that. We need critical capital the human capital infrastructure of the K through 12 person. And part of that is this package of AI where they get issued an AI tutor, they get issued

somebody to help them get through their lives. That's too much though where they lose their cognitive edge. They want to put your thoughts out there. They want to build a new computer. They want to build a new computer. They want to build a new computer. get issued an AI tutor, they get issued somebody to help them get through their lives. That's too much though, where they lose their cognitive edge. Well the timeline is really interesting if you if you think about the next

election cycle is right when we're gonna be running out of electrical power. Like you mentioned the big dig and in hindsight it did pay off but if we'd taken all that money, you know 14 billion dollars and rerouted it to power generation, of course we didn't know we would need it at the time but if we had taken all that money, $14 billion, and rerouted it to power generation, of course, we didn't know we would need it at the time, but then we'd be in a much, much better spot. As Peter was saying, we're going to be miles behind in power generation versus China, but right when the next election cycle is coming on, there's going to be massive job displacement and a massive threat of an arms race with China in AI.

And the creation of all the data centers that we need to keep up is gonna be a huge job opportunity. And so we'll actually be rational to invest like crazy in that one specific area. And what's beautiful about data center creation too is it's everything from physical infrastructure, real estate, foundations, plumbing, all that, plus operating system design, plus racks, you know, foundations, plumbing, all that, plus operating system design, plus

racks, plus yeah, it hits every legal, everybody can participate in it. So if you think about, you know, the run up to World War II, and the beginning of World War II, it should be very similar to that, if anything more acute, but all encompassing, everyone can contribute. So someone can rally everyone around that cause because the job displacement is going to come long before the next election at the rate things are changing right now. So that would be the galvanizing moment. And I think the China thing is not going to go away. I agree. You guys agree that we shouldn't be picking a fight with China, but we started it. We started it under the Biden administration, perpetuated it. It's both parties, you know,

with the Chips and Jobs Act. Before, yeah, before Anthony jumps in, I would like to hear a saline response to that, but finish up Dave, please. Well, so there was absolutely no hostility at all prior to the U.S. unilaterally saying, hey, you can't have our best chips. And that alone isn't the big deal. It's the reason you can't have our best chips is because there's no way that we're going to tolerate you catching up to us in AI. If that doesn't do the job, then we're going to do the next thing, then we're going to do the next thing,

then the next thing. The Chinese reaction to that is, okay, you have told us what your position is. There's no going back from that. Any amount of reconciliation at this point isn't going to change the fact that next election cycle will be in a full bore AI arms race with China, whether it was rational or not, it's going to exist on that day. And that's going to be a big motivating galvanizing force. I got some other outcomes and side effects that will come from that that we can talk about. But Peter, I know you want to keep this on track. Yeah, I know. In 2028, the timing is like spot on. Salim, what are your thoughts on that? Well, it's clear we need radical energy expansion,

which is the root cause of a lot of this. And this is the big structural tension, I think. We don't see a clear path to getting there. It takes too long to build fossil fuel. We have to get around this cultural problem with solar very quickly. Every day, I get the strangest compliment. Someone will stop me and say,

Peter, you have such nice skin. Honestly, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone. And honestly, I can't take the full credit. All I do is use something called One Skin OS1 twice a day, every day. The company is built by four brilliant PhD women who identified a peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin.

I love it, and again, I use this twice a day every day. You can go to Oneskin.co and write Peter at checkout for a discount on the same product I use. That's Oneskin.co and use the code Peter at checkout. All right, back to the episode. Anthony, was the move where the administration took the entire sort of royal family of AI on a shopping spree to Saudi and the Emirates a brilliant move?

Do you congratulate the Trump administration on that? Well, I like the concept, but I like the tactic of it. You have to tell me what the outcome is. I don't know what the outcome of it was. I know the UAE is pushing a lot of money into AI. And yes, I mean, generally I would like our allies to be partners with us on these projects and I would like their capital because that's what makes a better... Look, you know what Churchill said, right? Let me phrase it exactly. It's terrible to work with your allies in a war

except when you don't work with your allies in a war. You know what I mean? And you gotta get the allies involved even though they're pains in the asses, right? He said it better than me, I'm paraphrasing, but you get my point. So I think it's smart. Again, that's an example to me of what we said earlier in this podcast about that the administration

Has some very good ideas on this stuff There's a lot of people out there a lot of little oputions out there They're gonna want to block them and slow this thing down that are very short-sighted if I said to you Here is an AI it pops up like a hologram It's one part deamandis. It's one part Diamandus, it's one part David, one part Salim, and it can teach the kid about exponential organizations and longevity and AI, and it actually interfaces with the kid where the kid can talk to it, and it's helping the kid with its grammar and its spelling and it's forcing the kid to think.

So remember, you don't want the AI to make the kid cognitively atrophied. You want to have the AI give the kid a lot of intellectual crossword puzzles so the kid is ginned up. And you're telling me the teacher's union is like, you know, that is the best thing we can do for our children. I'm going to take a step back and let that happen. Is that our country? Is that our society?

Well, by the way, that is what's happening in the Emirates. I'm going to take a step back and let that happen. Is that our country? Is that our society? Well, by the way, that is what's happening in the Emirates. Emirates is going with AI first across the board, making CHAT GPT available for free to all of its citizens. I think the outcome, by the way, of those delegations to the Middle East were to block China from coming into the Middle East and making investments there. Because I guarantee you, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Emirates want to be just behind the US in AI as infrastructure.

And they're buying capacity. They're buying chips. They're buying investments and partnerships with the magnificent seven, eight, or nine, whatever they're going to be. So that's pretty extraordinary. Yeah, I think the Churchill analogy that Anthony just made is perfect too, because the other thing the Emirates can do and Saudi can do is they can act fast and unilaterally. And a lot of these areas, we can't move quickly and they can. And they have a trillion dollars

of capital, they can throw at anything we might need. So I don't think they wanna see China run away with AI either, so we have that common bond. Let me tell you about something that I think we should all be humbled by, and this is mistakes that we make. When we're thinking about our lives, and we think linearly, and the world's moving the way Saleem thinks exponentially,

and we make these mistakes, I wanna take you back to 1999. And we were at the World Trade Organization protests. And the blue collar people were up there in Seattle, and they're saying, you're going to kill us. You're going to knock out all of our jobs. And all the smug Wall Street types said, oh, that's not true, and lower cost of capital.

I got that wrong. We hurt every one of those people. And what the thinking was in 1999, let's shine into the WTO. They're a friendly neighbor now. They want our help. They're moving people from the farmland into the urban centers, and they're creating this massive amount of wealth and a burgeoning middle class, which means they're eventually going to embrace, are you ready? The end of history and democratic capitalism. That's what we thought, guys. And so now it's 25 years later and they did not do any of that. Everybody got that? And

do none of that. Who gots? Okay. And the Amandas live close enough to me in Queens, Nassau County to know that we got who gots Okay, and so that's what happened. And so now we're sitting here right now thinking about the next 25 years And we're gonna get a lot wrong guys We have to be humbled by life we have to be humbled by the fallibility of our decision making and the fallibility of our expectations because We're biotech. We'll talk about software. Celine brought up a good idea. He said Constitution software. You want something

that hasn't gotten a software upgrade? You, me, no software upgrade 100,000 years. The phone went from iPhone 1 to 16 on its way to 17, but not you. You're walking around with a cave stick in your hand and you're. And our mindset is the software upgrade that we need. I want to turn the conversation. That's my point. We have to talk to people like this to say we're going to make some mistakes. We got China wrong in 2000 in 1999.

We're going to get things wrong. We're going to be sitting here. I mean, I won't be here unless he gives me the right stem cells. He saves all the stem cells for himself, fellas. That's why he looks so good, Diamandus, okay? Eventually, I don't want to lose Mooch. You're going to say, I'm 150. I don't want to lose Mooch.

Let's send Mooch some exosomes so he stays alive. By the way, kudos to the state of Florida that just passed legislation. Let me give you this one. Kudos to the state of Florida that just passed legislation allowing for stem cell treatments finally. Right. I'm going to fly down there and that just passed legislation allowing for stem cell treatments. Right. Finally. We've been sending them. I'm going to lie down there and get some. But Diamandis hoards these things. You know what he's like. Okay. But I'm just saying 50 years from now when he's here and I'm long gone, we're going to look back and say, well, we made some mistakes.

Come down to Fountain Life, buddy. I will guarantee we've got, I don't know if I can say this, we have the president and first lady of a country coming to visit us tomorrow that's really I'm yeah I love it I love it they're amazing very thing guy if you can shrink my middle-aged man boobs I'll go anywhere that you want to send me okay all right at this point it's just about vanity we're going to one more subject here that I need to get your input on. And that is the whole crypto Bitcoin world. Let's talk about that.

How do you see the importance of Bitcoin in America, in our strategic reserves? It looks like, I talk about the digitization, dematerialization, demonetization, democratization of industries because of this. It looks like the entire banking and finance industry is about to get transformed. Do they know what has hit them? You're in this game and you're playing at it across the board. Talk to me. Yeah.

Well, they know what's hit them. They're absolutely scared shit about it and they've gone to the American Banking Association, very strong lobbyists, and they're trying to liquidate progress so that they can catch up. Okay, that's what's going on. So like, holy shit, the circle is going to control. Could you imagine if I can put my Bitcoin at JP Morgan and get yield off it and there's a structure around it that protects it, forget it, it's over. And so they know that that's coming. They know Brian's ahead of them.

They're going to try to buy Brian, probably buy Circle alongside of Brian. They have to move. But here's the thing I would say to them, like when they invite me in to talk, I say guys, the phone company, when I was in Europe and I had to make a call say I was in Italy in 1985 I had to go to the post office. I had to get a card They gave me 15 minutes for I don't know. It's like three dollars a minute forty five dollars Yeah, talk to my mom now I can go to any cafe in Rome plug into the Wi-Fi talk to my mom for no dollars

Okay, probably even do a George Jackson FaceTime call, right? And so, but the phone companies didn't go to zero. They're still here. And what they do is they morph. And so what the banks have to do is provide different services. The banks, see American Express, okay, Scootery's a very smart guy. He's teamed up with Brian.

You get 4% back in Bitcoin. I love that, by the way. I just ordered mine. You use it% back in Bitcoin. I love that by the way I just ordered mine. So they're even gonna lose some little bit of money on it, but they want your business Yeah, okay, and they have figured out we got to be in the customer capture And we've got to offer service You know you're getting your Wi-Fi from the phone company or the cable company some fiber optic company They didn't go to zero. Or you got to tell the banks, calm down. There's other services that you can put on the chain and you can do everything that you

want, but you got to move. We got to get out of – you can be a carriage maker and make body by Fisher. You can make the inside of the carriage of the horseless carriage. Okay? And you got to think like that and you got to adapt. inside of the carriage, of the horseless carriage. Yeah. Okay? And you got to think like that and you got to adapt. We hate adaptation, guys. Okay, I was in the typewriter business.

I was in a fund-to-funds business. I had to make a decision. Am I going to stay in the fund-to-funds business? The reason why Skybridge got to the 20th birthday is we did 20 iterations at Skybridge. I got out of the typewriter business and Moved into the digital asset space to save my business and to save my customers Well, you're you're you're brilliant. You're you want to stick in mud stick in the mud We don't want to stick in the mud. We did a study of fortune 100 in 2015, scored them against the EXO model, which essentially measures adaptability and agility. And seven years later, the top 10 that followed the

attributes and the model of adaptability and agility the most delivered 40 times the shareholder returns of the bottom 10. It's just like crazy numbers. Well, I want to see that. You can send it to me because I want to send it to my staff. But this is why I like Zuckerberg. Because Zuckerberg's like, we're gonna call it Meta. He thinks we're going into the metaverse, but he gets it wrong, but he changes the name of the company to Meta.

But guess what he gets right? We're going AI. All in. And look at him, he's not sitting there. 70 billion dollars of purchasing power. He's got a 70 billion dollar wallet in his his pocket and he's buying as much as he can He's not he's not he's not stuck in the mud that guy. Yeah, are you in suck buddies? Are you are you connected to Zuckerberg? Yeah. No, I don't know. No, I'm just impressed with him

Yeah, he wants I was in Sun Valley with him at the Allen and Company conference And I remember feeling so insecure He was like 24 at the time worth like 10 billion and I remember feeling so insecure. He was like 24 at the time, worth like 10 billion, and I was like 44, worth no billion, and now he's only worth like 200 billion. You know what I mean? God bless him. You know what?

I love that though. Here's the thing. Equal opportunity, Sergey Brin can come in from Eastern Europe, let him make 200 billion. Equal opportunity, not equal outcomes, not equal outcomes. We've got to help. We're rich enough country to help these people feel like there's

some fairness in the society. And you want to get socialism. Have the people think the society is unfair to question to come at you with a howitzer. Two questions. What percentage of your assets, if you're willing to say, are in Bitcoin and what's your end of the year prediction? Well, I mean, listen, I just got done with AJ telling him this, I have 70% of my money in Bitcoin. Now that's either I own Bitcoin on my balance sheet,

I own Bitcoin on the corporate balance sheet, I own Bitcoin in the funds. So if you look at all the pass-throughs, and you look at my net worth, 70% of it is in Bitcoin. Now, it wasn't that, but it did this. Bitcoin is a pizza eater. Let me explain that. It starts out as a small slice of the pizza and then look at me. It's like a fucking Pac-Man. It goes like this. That's what's happening to me, okay? So it's not because I'm even buying more of it, right? But it's

70%. And I think if you look at the power law, and by the way, I want you to do this. Go to Chad GBT or Grok and say, I need a sensitivity analysis. If a trillion dollars comes into Bitcoin and here is the volume and supply over the last five years, and there's some elasticity. It'll trigger some whales to sell, figure out how many whales are going to get triggered, and figure out what a trillion dollars of buying power does to the asset. And I think the asset goes, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this, it goes to 500,000. That's a 5X number number which would be consistent with happen to Amazon and video happen to Tesla when you have purchasing power

moving in so 500 in five years 200 at the end of this year and a million dollars at the end of ten years yeah by the way but you're gonna have some height you're gonna have some hyperinflation if we don't fix this goddamn thing. And so it could go higher than what I'm saying. I'm talking about 2% inflation with a smart Federal Reserve chairman trying to manage this debacle we're in. If Trump decapitates the current Fed chair and he puts in Mickey Mouse or Johnny Bozo, okay, he's going to want to apologize to the bag of rocks.

I didn't mean to insult the bag of rocks. Because, look at me, Navarro and Trump are like this. So that was a way through derivatives. That was a way to get Trump to apologize to the bag of rocks. And then he said, I want to apologize to the bag of rocks. And then he said, I want to apologize to the bag of rocks. And then he said, I want to apologize to the bag of rocks. And then he said, I want to apologize to the bag of rocks I didn't mean to insult the bag of rocks because Navarro and Trump are like this so that was a way through derivatives that was a way through differential calculus to

tell people before he exploded on Trump that Trump was a jackass and I love that about Elon because he's a 19 level 19 dimensional thinker right but on this topic I think it's very very simple simple. Okay, you don't want Johnny Bozo running the Fed. But if you got Johnny Bozo running the Fed, it's going to go to $15 million a coin. And that's not going to be good for the society though. A million dollars is the next gold, and it's a digital asset, and we got things under control. We didn't get into it because I know we're running out of time, but you could fix the deficit, by the way. It's a totally fixable thing,

but it would require about two decades of fiscal discipline. And again, I'm talking about fiscal discipline as just slowing down a little bit of the governmental growth and getting the economic growth through all the innovation you talk about in your podcast to exceed the governmental growth. Yeah, I think the other way you can fix it. And you could do it. In 25 years, you'll have the whole thing arrested. People will be looking

around and saying, wow, how did we do that? That was great. But you got to have some more people in the room that are patient. Hey folks, Salim here. Hope you're enjoying these podcasts. And this one in particular was amazing. If you want to hear more from me or get involved in our EXO ecosystem, on the 23rd of July, we're doing a once a month workshop. Tickets are $100. We limit it to a few people to make sure it's intimate and proper, and we go through the EXO model. What we do there is we basically show you how to take your organization

and turn it into one of these hyper-growth AI type companies. And we've done this now for 10 years with thousands of companies. Many of these use the model that we have called the exponential organizations model. Peter and I co-authored the second edition a couple of years ago. So it's a hundred bucks, July 23rd. Come along, it's the best hundred dollar you'll spend.

Link is below, see you there. There's another way to fix the entire financial debacle in the United States, which is increases people's health span You enable people to be healthier an extra decade where they're productive Serving them to process food because that would serve you. Oh my god, I would save a trillion dollars off of Medicare for sure for sure Salim and Dave any last, you know digs at and make sure I mean he's I just want Dave to recognize this, I asked for help with my man boobs, he totally disregarded it. He's not helping his friends, okay? I need

man boob reduction and he can help me with some, you know he's got some cocktail there that helps him with man boob reduction, he's not sharing. Go ahead, go ahead. I have a question, did you see this thing with the bonds that have 10% basis of Bitcoin in it? And it looked to me like a pretty brilliant idea. I wanted your reaction on that. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a very smart, very clever idea. And that's the stuff that the people in the banking association, people in the investment banks are very worried about, because that's the stuff that's going to get adopted. And remember, and now kidding now, in 10 years, the 38 year old that likes Bitcoin is going to be more advanced in his career.

He's going to be 48 and that is going to be a massive proliferation and that provides more evidence of what I'm saying because Bitcoin is immutable. It's a finite supply of it. People trust it and they're gonna use it. Yeah amazing. Here's my parting shot. So you know we have Moore's law, we have Musk's law now. You know Musk's law? You know the most dramatic outcome is the one that's gonna happen. Yeah I like that one. So we need Mucha's law to match that pattern. I'll give you a give you a chance to think about it, unless you have it at top of your head. Well, yeah.

I mean, I probably have to need more time to think about it. Here's what I would say, though. Here's what I would say. This is my observation about this country. Okay, my 61-year observation about this country is that the people in this country want to get it right. And what did Lincoln say? Lincoln said the people in this country are way smarter it right. And what did Lincoln say? Lincoln said the people in this country are way smarter

than the average politician thinks. And the exact quote said, you know, Lincoln said that the people in this country have a good nose. They can smell a rotting cadaver in their basement. And it's at a time in American history where we have to change the plot lines of these political

parties. And I mean, just to remind people, Lincoln was in a third party. It was in a third party that was established in 1856. And the name of the party was the Republican Party. You know, really, really appreciate what you've done in terms of being a totally straight-shooting, candid, say it like it is person, which is really rare, but also not tied to either party. Like, you know, hanging out on, getting a nuisance podcast, getting no Elon. We got no choice, Dave. We got no choice.

Let me tell you something. I'm named after somebody that assaulted Normandy Beach. Okay, my uncle assaulted Normandy Beach at the age of 19 and took the cliff and burned out some of those cement pill boxes. So, you know, people say to me, aren't you afraid they're gonna come after you? I don't give a shit. Okay, if I got an uncle that I'm named after that was willing to do that, I can use my mouth and my brain to explain to people what's going on, even if it puts me at risk. Okay, but I just want to finish this one point,

it's very important about Lincoln. The Whigs, he went after them. He said, the abolitionist Whigs joined my new party. And then he went after the Democrats. He said, the abolitionist Democrats joined my new party. And he became the first Republican president of the United States. And he ended the slavery. It took us to civil war to do it, And he ended the slavery, took us to civil war to do it, but he ended the slavery. And by the way, you know, Buchanan was a jackass. We

probably didn't even have the war, okay? And he was sandwiched between two big jackasses, Buchanan and Johnson. But Lincoln, okay, changed it. He switched the narrative and he tried to clean out out he was the stain remover for the stain that was in the Constitution so don't tell me our history that we can't do this this is totally doable. Mooch you are brilliant everybody this is Anthony Scaramucci extraordinary individual. Anthony where do we find you on social? Talk to us about your podcast. I'm at Scaramucci my younger son took at mooch. So I'm at scaramucci on Instagram and Twitter and

I have a podcast called the rest is politics us It's me and Katty K We talk about political situation economics and I have a pet project that I love Which is a podcast called open book where I interview people like Peter Diamandis and Hal Brands and different authors, because I'm a big bibliophile and I like reading and I like talking to authors. I just, I'm extraordinarily impressed by your brilliance

every time I chat with you. Thank you for the work that you do. You're being very kind, you know, I just love my country like you, and I love the future. Okay, you can smell the future. The future is so bright. You can inhale the future. You can smell the future. All we got to do is get to the future and we got to get people to calm down. Stop hating on each other with the rancor of social media. Let's get to the future together. Dave Salim, brilliant as always. Thank you.

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