Moonshots with Peter Diamandis - The Trillion Dollar AI Reset: Advertising & Gaming is Next w/ Salim Ismail & Dave Blundin | EP #170

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

In this episode, Salim, Peter, and Dave dive into another segment of “WTF is Happening in Tech This Week,” discussing the new era of AI advertising, how AI is underhyped, bitcoin updates, and more.  Recorded on May 6th, 2025 Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. ​Dave Blundin is a distinguished serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and AI innovator with a career spanning over three decades. As the Founder and General Partner at Exponential Ventures (XPV) and Managing Partner at Link Ventures, he has co-founded 23 companies, with at least five achieving valuations exceeding $100 million, and has served on 21 private and public boards. Notably, he pioneered the quantization of neural networks in 1992, significantly enhancing their efficiency and scalability. ​ Salim Ismail is a serial entrepreneur and technology strategist well known for his expertise in Exponential organizations. He is the Founding Executive Director of Singularity University and the founder and chairman of ExO Works and OpenExO.  Learn about Dave’s fund: https://www.linkventures.com/xpv-fund  Join Salim's ExO Community: https://openexo.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/salimismail  Learn more about Exponential Mastery: https://bit.ly/exponentialmastery  ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/ Get 15% off OneSkin with the code PETER at  https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Newsletter _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's the world going to look like in 50 years? There's no way. There's just absolutely no way to make that prediction. I think AI is going to be listening to my conversations when I say, Salim, I really love that shirt and it knows I need a shirt, so just asks your AI where you got that shirt and then it just delivers to me magically the next day. Advertising will get crushed. You're exactly right. The future belongs to chatting with your trusted agent and your trusted agent making good suggestions for you and then saying yeah just go out and buy that or just go ahead and sign up for that. You'll be able to use AI to not just do legal, lawmaking, legislation but actually

formulate policy. There's a new innovation coming from AI every single week and you need some kind of a regulatory framework. The only way those laws are going to be written is with AI because nothing can keep up with AI other than AI. Now that's the moonshot, ladies and gentlemen. Everybody welcome to WTF Just Happening Tech this week, a special episode of Moonshots with two extraordinary friends, brilliant thinkers in the field of exponential tech and AI. Salim Ismail, the CEO of OpenEXO and Dave London, the CEO of Link exponential ventures. Both are my partners and both are definitely smarter than I am.

So welcome guys. Good to see you. Good to be here. Thank you, Peter. Yeah. Well, I want to jump in. This has been the speed at which we're seeing breakthroughs and activities across the board and all technologies is accelerating and it feels faster. Does it feel that way for you? Oh, my God. Does it ever. I was in California at Stanford pretty much all of last week came back and the amount of change in just one week

you know the New Gemini model came out their update the code it can generate is like, you know Noticeably better than it was two weeks ago that I can tell you some stories when we get into it I want to hear them. How about you Salim? Salim you're you're a probability function. You're like orbiting the planet without a rocket ship Where'd you come back from? I just came I was like a few days in India and then a day and a half in Sao Paulo and I just landed back And I'm trying to figure out where my time zone is somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic You truly are orbiting the planet And so thanks for for joining this conversation, you know, I hate wisdom

I hate missing a week of this conversation because stuff it's so many Yeah the way I frame it is the is the We've hit a singularity in AI development like the pace of change is faster than our ability to process it Yeah, I mean when we talk about a singularity There are multiple singularities on the way to what Ray about a singularity, there are multiple singularities on the way to what Ray calls a singularity. So a singularity is like, if you can't predict what's going to happen next week, that's a

singularity in this area. I want to jump into one of my favorite stories in AI because I've been beating this drum for a while now and and here it is it's Not the Trump drum, but the AI in classroom drum So, you know we heard earlier we talked about this couple weeks ago that Beijing has basically made a ruling that all Secondary schools, I think primary and secondary schools are gonna require AI training throughout China We've seen that as well as in Estonia. And I've been just tweeting this out. Finally, we see an executive order here

that is requiring schools to incorporate AI in the classroom. About time. What are your thoughts, gentlemen? Dave? Well, Peter, you've been saying disruption is coming to education. You've been saying it, like you said, beating the drum for a long time. The schools have underreacted. I think, you know, we're all associated with either MIT or other schools.

We don't want to get in the middle of a political battle for sure. But there is a lot of good stuff coming out of the government now in the Doge wake and in this and then a bunch of other things that are absolutely urgent and necessary. But I tell you more of what you've been teachers, I had some really good high school teachers, but AI is going to bypass them as a way to learn. It probably already has. Then the professors are next. But remember when the internet came along and there was a lot of concern in the schools that if they put all the courseware out there online,

is anyone going to keep coming to school? It's all out there and freely available. People did keep coming either for the social aspects or for the credentials. But now it's another level with the interactive AI being able to explain things to you better than you can learn them in a lecture. Yeah.

And so we'll see. We'll see what that does. I mean, Salim, you and I both have boys the same age in middle school. Is your school teaching them AI? What's the philosophy there? They're using AI. They're not supposed to use it for writing essays, but they do it anyway. And the good news is at that age, it's pretty easy to spot when a sophisticated AI has written the things way better than the kids do it. So that for now, it's kind of workable. But I think the

key point in referencing what Dave said was it's pretty clear that when you're using an AI to learn, you learn at least twice as fast. The estimates I'm hearing are between 2X and 4X faster. Yeah. Right? That just is like, you've immediately made the need for school, formal schooling redundant.

And so there's a huge gap now between the regulatory, we wanna put kids through schools, go through grade 12 and what's possible with AI. And that's gonna stretch very quickly. Yeah, MIT and Northeastern went the complete opposite direction of your kids' school where they said, use AI anywhere and everywhere that it helps you. And if that messes up the professor, they gotta fix it.

They better figure it out in a hurry. And I've got one kid left in high school and he's rip shit mad that their school went the other direction saying don't use it, we'll catch you if you try. Which, you know, it's just crazy. It's incredibly short-sighted to take that position. You know, I can get the idea that middle schoolers

shouldn't be using AI to do middle school homework, but middle schoolers should be using AI to do extraordinary projects that they could not normally do otherwise. Yeah. Yeah. There's a second article related to this here, which is over 250 CEOs urge states to make AI and computer science graduation requirements. So here's their stats.

Just one computer science class can increase wages by 8% for students. The US is lagging across, again, China, South Korea, and Open Letter advocates for computer science and AI as core to K-12. I could not agree more. This genie is out of the bottle and kids are going to hit smack into a brick wall if they're not prepared. The good news is those kids that don't take computer science will be much more ready for all the manufacturing jobs that are coming back. Love it. Let's screw those iPhone screws back in. I think most of you know that the news media is delivering negative news to us all the

time because we pay 10 times more attention to negative news than positive news. For me, the only news worthwhile that's true and impacting humanity is the news of science and technology. And that's what I pay attention to. And every week I put out two blogs, one on AI and exponential tech and one on longevity. If this is of interest to you and it's available totally for free, please join me. Subscribe at diamandis.com slash subscribe. That's diamandis.com slash subscribe.

All right, let's go back to the episode. All right. Here's another one. You know, UAE, let's give them credit for so many different ways. They were the first country to have a minister of AI, who I've known now for the better part of 15 years before he became minister. But UAE is the first nation to use AI to write their laws. here's the here's the stats. Official project will reduce government costs by 50% and speed up lawmaking by 70%. Salim, you're you're meeting with heads of nations on all of your trips.

What are you seeing here? So they are very far ahead. Most other countries are nowhere near even looking at this. They're still trying to spell AI. This is a huge opportunity and I think they've actually underestimated it. I think it'll speed up lawmaking by like 5x, forget 70 percent. And I think the drop in cost is pretty, is much bigger than they think. Because you'll be able to use AI to not just do legal lawmaking legislation, but actually formulate policy. Right? I've said this before that if you want to drop inflation by 1%, asking a human being to gauge what knobs and levers to pull is a stupid

idea. Let it to go to an AI and the AI can go well if you want to do that looking at all the financial transactions and the access to all that data in real time let's go here's what you need to do and then human being go yep that looks good go for it and so there's all sorts of things that could happen here there's a crazy story I have but we don't need to get into this right now a few years ago I was asked to give a talk at the Republican National Leadership Convention on this, on some of this. And the title of my talk was going to be, How would you drop the cost of government 10x within 10 years? Which you could do. But you'd have to embrace technology. And that's where we got a new bit of a mess there. But I think these predictions are kind of nice, but they're conservative. I think

you'll end up doing a lot more. And I think that's incredibly powerful because you could use AI at the policy formulation, legislation writing, and then also on the enforcement side. So this really changes the game on how government operates going forward. And you could save a lot of money with government employees. Dave, what are you thinking here?

So as I mentioned, I was in Stanford all last week with Eric Brynjolfsson, our good friend, and also Sandy Pentland, who moved out there recently. And then Mark Ornberg, the chairman of MIT, was also there the whole week. But Eric, very forward thinking on these topics. But his point in his lectures on bullet two is that these cost saving areas are the tip of the iceberg.

It's a great way to get started. But the real gain here is Greenfield. It's what can you do that's incremental and beyond just reducing the cost of something that already exists. And this area, we desperately need the pace of lawmaking to keep up with the pace of AI innovation. And so that's I think, you know, there's a great way to get started and UAE is very forward thinking on it, but you're going to need this same capability when there's a new innovation coming from AI every single week and you need some kind of a regulatory framework, otherwise it will run wild. The only way those laws are going to be written is with AI because nothing can keep up with

AI other than AI. You know, if you're, whatever industry you're in and you're being regulated, like if you're a hairdressing salon or you're a health care facility, if you do an analysis of all the laws that regulate you, you're going to find conflicting laws on the books. And I think what would be fascinating is actually running all the laws and say, I'd like you to disentangle these, de-conflict these, and actually find the set of laws which are the minimum laws that allow us, like the tax code, for example. Oh my God, could you imagine running a reinvented tax code? It's like simplify it and maintain the

US revenues from taxes. I mean, Celine, you've been off on this in a while. Yeah, I think this is something that we're pretty clear as to what the sequence is. Sequence step one will be use AI to navigate the existing complexity in the tax code or legal structures, etc. You know, in Europe, no matter what you do, you're always violating a few laws, right? It's just so much. That's how they keep you in check. That's one way. But then they don't have the people to really enforce anything. So everybody just goes ahead and does what they want. And because they generally follow common sense, it works out. So they're lucky over there. But the step

one will be using AI to help navigate this. There's already a company that's helping nuclear projects try and navigate what's the fastest path to getting the regulatory approval and what forms do you have to fill out etc etc. That's already happening there. Step two will be how would you optimize the regulatory and stop the conflicts and rewrite it. And I think step three would be is there a way of making this much more elegant and I've never been excited about rewriting laws, but I do think there needs to be some way and some requirement that every time you put a law in the books, you should take one of the old ones off or at least simplify. All right, let's move on here. This is a big one. This is a bit of

a surprise. OpenAI scraps plans to convert to a for-profit structure. So OpenAI abandons plans to shift after facing opposition from Elon and state authorities. And they're going to maintain what they call their nonprofit controlled capped profit structure. So what does that mean? There's a nonprofit board that oversees OpenAI. All of the nonprofit board members have no equity incentives, meaning they're there to help maintain OpenAI's mission in the world and not to maximize profits.

The capped structure means that if you put a dollar in, your return on your investment is capped at $100. So I find that fascinating. We reported last time that OpenAI raised capital at a $300 billion valuation. So thoughts on this one? Well, there are a lot of reports that, hey, this is no big deal for Sam. It's going to actually, if anything, reinforce his control. I didn't kind of read it that way.

I was like, no, this is a win for Elon in trying to slow down the rate of investment, you know, and give him a better chance to catch up with, you know, his kind of unconstrained version of this. I also think that, you know, the number one use case for AI is companionship. The voices and the sympathetic AIs got really good in the last couple of weeks.

And I think they'll be out in the world in the next couple months, where you have a very, very intelligent AI model, like a $2 trillion, $5 trillion parameter model, married to these super engaging sympathetic voices. And that's going to create all kinds of tough decisions for social media companies on, like, am I just selling as many ad impressions as possible and trying to reel everybody into, like, being on this platform 24 by 7? Or am I actually worried about the psychological effect

of that? I think that having a nonprofit board on top of OpenAI, they're obligated to think in terms of the, you know, being the social good version of this, which may not be the biggest revenue driver. Salim, what are your thoughts here? It seems pretty clear that there was going to be legal, huge legal exposure if they pushed through with the full for-profit. And so this made it more elegant. He's going to control the non-profit board so that kind of minimizes any risk. And then you can always find other ways you do other spin outs, etc, etc, to harvest some of the upside that may come from this. So I think it's a force them to change a route. I don't think it'll change the game that much as Dave said. You know one of the things Dave you mentioned in passing was the sort of

emotional engagement of the AI. So OpenAI's chat GPT, they actually rolled back that level of emotional engagement. They were saying that it was just way too complimentary to the user and I don't know if the term obsequious is the right term for that, but they rolled it back to an earlier state. You don't want your Open AI saying, oh, you're so amazing all the time. There's this whole definition of diplomacy which says you say nice doggie until you can find a rock. So this is the AI has been really nice to us until they figure out what to do with it. Ouch.

All right. Not a surprise here. Microsoft CEO says up to 30% of companies AI code was written by AI and predicts that 95% of code will be AI generated by 2030. Dave, you're overseeing how many companies right now inside of the Link portfolio and the Link studios? 20, 24 right now? 2024. And so what's it like there?

I mean, so take a second and give people a little bit of overview. So Link Studios is incubating companies mostly out of MIT, some out of Harvard. Average age of those teams? Well, median age is probably 24, 25 year olds, and the companies are about one to two years old. And so what's going on in terms of Vibe coding for them, in terms of AI based coding? Well, they're all AI native. They generate almost all their code

with some degree of AI assistance. Blitzi in particular, when I left town last week, they had a two or three million revenue run rate. I came back, they've signed eight million of new deals. And so they're basically signing up customers as quickly as they can meet them. Now, Blitzi, as a reminder, as a company can write three million lines of code in a single night, uses massive amounts

of inference time compute under the covers. And now the trick is, okay, how do you debug 3 million lines of code that you've written in a single night? But the algorithms are getting so good at writing good code now that that problem is going away in a hurry. But there's no way any company in this building wouldn't be using AI-generated code for almost everything that they do.

Also, it makes a lot of sense to write your business plan around areas where it works well. And then, this is coming up a lot, don't fight any battles, wait a few weeks. Because the things that'll be able to do in a few weeks will be expanding at this ridiculous rate. So while you were fighting some silly battle, it got ahead of you. So just do what comes naturally and easily this week

and then wait, you know, for the next week's innovations. David, I have a question for you. It used to be that if you're starting a company, especially in the AI space, you need to find a great technical co-founder if you're someone in the business or finance world, how important is that now versus being able to use AI as your technical co-founder? Well, it's, in a sense, more important than ever, but it's a different skill set. It's very much the visionary that

can decide what should we be doing has become incredibly important. And then the technical co-founder who would just grind out, Steve Wozniak would be the quintessential example. Steve Jobs is like, we need to build the Apple II. This is what it needs to be like for the user. That skillset's more important than ever.

Hey Woz, can you get the chip countdown? Can you wire this all together? Grind it out all night. That skillset becomes much less relevant because AI will do all the chip routing for you. But that first skillset has really grown in value and it's very similar. You know, it's a very technical, you got to choose components, you got to decide this will work, this won't work. It's a very technical skill set, but it's more of a visionary skill set. I think there's one other skill set

that's coming to the fore here which is find hidden gems of data sets and figure out how to monetize them. And I think that's going to become a very big deal over the next few years because we'll have a horizontal platform that's able to do all sorts of things. The question is where is the revenue? Where can you mine for little nuggets of revenue and go grab them and leverage on to do it? I think that's going to add to the business focus and the application focus. So two more things on this on this topic that I think are really important. First, Mark Zuckerberg last week did a couple interviews where he made it clear that the backlog of AI research projects is only compute bound. It's not idea

bound. So between the researchers and the AI generated ideas, they have a huge backlog of things that will just work. And there isn't enough compute, even in Microsoft's hundreds of thousands of GPUs, there isn't enough compute to try the ideas. So we've tipped from idea-bound to compute-bound, and that'll be true forever hereafter. And then on the second bullet,

95% of code AI-generated by 2030, I think that timeline to 2030, he would have said, Satya would have said 2040, 2050, just a few months ago. And so that's consistent with Dennis Asavis also, he was more conservative about the timeline to AGI and he's pulled in his forecast now too. So what you're seeing is even the conservative,

let's be cautious people are really pulling in their date. And that, you know, that's telling. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love. The company is called Fountain Life and it's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians.

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onto our healthy lifespans. Go to fountainlife.com backslash Peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. It's the AI singularity as Salim and I spoke about earlier. So speaking of which, our AIs are for the US, David Sachs has come forward with a statement that AI will be a million fold more capable in the next four years. Let's play a video and then talk about it

because this was the same point that Elon made when he was on stage at the Abundance Summit. Let's hear the numbers that David puts forward. I would say the rate of progress is exponential right now on at least three key dimensions. So number one is the algorithms themselves. The models are improving at a rate of, I don't know, three to four times a year.

Then you've got the chips, depending on how you measure it. Each generation of chips is probably three or four times better than the last in a level. And that would be the third area where you're seeing basically exponential progress. Just look at the number of GPUs that are being deployed in data centers. AIs data centers, Stargate,

and within a couple of years, they'll be at, I don't know, 5 million GPUs, 10 million GPUs. The algorithms, the chips, and the data centers are all improving or scaling at a rate of, I don't know, three to four X a year. That's 10 X every two years.

If you're getting better at 10 X every two years, that doesn't mean you'll be at 20 X in four years. It means you'll be at 100x. So you multiply those things together, the algorithms, the chips, and then the raw compute that's available. You're talking about a million x increase. So, Saleem, how does that feel? It sounds about right. I mean, look, this is the fastest moving technology we've ever seen. And you'd expect to see it. I think he framed it very kind of wonderfully clearly in that. But we've seen the same thing where in, say, solar energy where it's not just the efficiency of the solar panel, it's the actuators and it's the system controls.

They're all accelerating at their own rate, not quite at this level of madness. But we've seen this before where the convergence of multiple exponentials gives you crazy outcomes. You know one of the things that we've talked about in the past is skating to where the puck's going to be right if I remember meeting the founders of siri before they were bought by apple and they were predicting what was going to be possible in like two to four years and they were building Siri to intercept those capabilities. Because if you build for what's possible today, then by the time your

product gets to market, it's out of date. So Dave, I mean, you're seeing a multitude of, you know, hundreds of startups that are coming across your desk. How do you think about this? Well, first of all, the million X is just raw parameter count in the biggest neural nets. It's really hard to predict the capabilities that are and aren't possible with the million X. And so, yeah, you're a great, all-time great visionary looking five years into the future.

It used to be very possible for you. I don't know, what do you think your view into the future is now? Yeah. I mean, it literally has to be a discontinuous vision. Okay. All...I have a heart...I remember I was brought on stage at the first World Government Summit in Dubai. Yeah, and my request was, what's the world going to look like in 50 years?

And I was like, there's no way. There's just absolutely no way to make that prediction. 10 years, you know, back then it was 10, 15 years at the outmost. Today, I would say five years is difficult, three years is possible. And there's so many parameters, including policy, human reaction to this, the capital markets. All of these things are intertwined. What's going on in China and Taiwan?

So it's a little bit. For me, the hard part is when something's a million times, you know, assume it's 100x, 100,000x, right? I mean, you end up with a failure of imagination where you can't conceive of the types of things you might be able to do, right? And our immediate thing is to automate what we're doing now, and that's not the right answer because you end up with the problem of when they first put TV out, you took radio announcers and put them on TV reading the same scripts and you're not

leveraging the capability in a real way. It takes time to kind of get to grips with the imagination that's possible. So you kind of have to wait till we get there and then go now what do we do? I know one thing, you know Peter, when you were out here two weeks ago I guess, you know, spending time with Alex Wisner-Groves, there's just a handful of people that you can find that have got their head wrapped around this. You know, if you talk to people at random, 99.9% of them are underreacting. More than that, 9.999% are underreacting. And you find a few people like Alex that are thinking it through. And if you can surround yourself with as many of those as you can find, it really, really

helps a lot. Just to pick on the framework here that David Sachs put together, it's exact same three dimensions that I used to think about scale. I think a million X in four years, four to five years is the right answer. But I also think that the algorithm dimension, nobody really knows. And if anything, it's understated. But we're all surprised in the last few months

about inference time, computer test time, chain of thought reasoning, being far more powerful as a scaling factor and trying to build new scaling laws around how do we even think about inference time? Because when David talks about the chips getting faster, he's thinking about the GPUs, just the standard 3 to 4 X year over year.

But the inference time chips are actually improving far, far faster. It's a much easier problem. But that's turning out to be a key factor in the intelligence of the overall system. So I think that the chips will outperform what he just said and the algorithms will way outperform what he just said Because those innovations when I when I look at the factors driving this it is compute

It's total its data sets and we haven't talked about synthetic data hitting this algorithms money coming in and then you know the number of actual human Meat bodies getting into the game here is increasing. More and more people are getting into the AI game. Something funny that happened, I was having a conversation, I think it was with ChatGPT, it might have been Gemini 2.5, and I would say, okay, let's look into the future. I was trying to use it as a conversational partner to predict where things are going. And I said, make some predictions and I said listen if

we're gonna see a centuries worth of progress in the next 10 years what you just predicted is extraordinarily linear and he goes you're right let me go a little bit bolder so you've got actually pushed the so I think this is where the answer will lie when we see these type of predictions we'll use an AI to, you write out that curve and tell me what it's going to look like. Yeah. Because it'll do probably a better job than us because we're limited in some other ways. We have all our cognitive biases that limit our ability to imagine. Where an AI in theory should suffer from much less of that.

Yeah, I think that's a really important topic because I think right now, AI as a brainstorming partner is hobbled because the models that you love brainstorming with, the 4.0s and the Gemini 2.5s, they have about a 30-second lag and that kind of takes the buzz out of it. And then the models that are really fun to interact with, like the Sesame demo and all of that, are super engaging, but they're only like a 7B or 30B kind of caliber model. And so they're not a really good brainstorming partner. All of that will be stitched together within the next three months.

So when you have an idea in the morning, Peter, you're gonna immediately go to that super engaging two trillion to 10 trillion parameter caliber model. And there's no going back from there. Once you start down that path, you're gonna love it. I mean, three months. Did you say three months? Three months, yeah.

Well, ChatGPT, the sort of the on the phone app does a pretty damn good job. And I have conversations with it. So I do like 20 minutes of red light in the morning. And my conversations during that red light time with my ChatGPT bot is extraordinary. All right, let's go to Eric Schmidt here who was giving a presentation and said,

AI is underhyped. Please take a listen. I'm here to tell you that I honestly believe that the AI revolution is underhyped. And here's why. The arrival of this new intelligence will profoundly change our country and the world in ways we cannot fully understand.

Many people think that the demand of energy part that our industry takes will go from 3% to 99% of total generation. One of the estimates that I think is most likely is that data centers will require an additional 29 gigawatts of power by 2027 and 67 more gigawatts by 2030. Gives you a sense of the scale that we're talking. These things are industrial at a scale I have never seen in my life. So first off, underhyped versus spot on. How do you guys feel about that?

And then we should talk about the whole energy of it all. Dave? You know, one of my most cherished lifetime memories actually, Peter, is you sitting down with Eric Schmidt. I think it was at A360, you know, just a few years ago. You guys must have riffed for maybe two hours straight just with armchairs side by side. One night, yeah. Oh my God. You know, Eric is, not only is he absolutely brilliant, but he has access to all this information. So, you know, when is he ever going to be wrong? When has he ever been wrong before? You Yeah, of course he's absolutely right. What's amazing to me about what Eric is saying there, he's on

some kind of, you know, congressional testimony or whatever, he's always pointing to the energy because he knows that's the one thing that'll get through everybody's thick head. But there's so many other more important and urgent, like what about the fabs, you know? Like, Like we gotta get these fabs up and running on shore like yesterday. That's the more urgent, bigger topic than just the raw energy. But he knows that they won't understand that.

So he has to say, hey, we need 29 gigawatts of new power because at least everyone will be able to grok it and it'll make progress. Yeah, Salim. I don't have anything to add to this. I think those are two great insights. I think this will be a really great push for renewables

and low cost energy in all sorts of ways. And I think it will force us to expand our energy footprint. I mean, at the same time, you've got the White House basically taking all the constraints off of coal and oil and natural gas and drilling because when I look I mean I kind of understand why in terms of AI because when I look at How long it's gonna take to get gen 4 nuclear and fusion online? We're talking decades. It's like Amazon signed a contract with X energy We're talking decades. It's like Amazon signed a contract with X energy

for a gen for I think was a gen for plant sufficient plant and I'm like, oh is it gonna be on you know in the next two or three years like 2040? Yeah, so but I think the you have to remember the cost of fossil fuels is way high these days compared to Solar right we like So all this extra usage will be coming from renewables in some way. I go back to my example of the guy building a gigawatt wind farm in the outskirts of Kazakhstan because the wind howls down a particular valley

in a ridiculously consistent basis. And they just plunk an AI data center there. So you can do that kind of leveraging of low cost, far away capability that you'd never get in normal. Or to Iceland, right? You can put the data center anywhere you want. Yeah. I think when I remember talking to Ramiz about the energy stuff,

he said, we will never go back to oil and gas as fondly as people want, because the cost curve is just remember talking to Ramiz about the fossil, a solar generation facility than fossil fuels. And since then almost all energy generation has been solar. In 2019 a more important inflection point was hit, which is it became cheaper to build and run a solar facility than to just run the oil gas. Yeah. Right? So the so the capex and capex of solar is now less than the apex of fossil fuels. So we don't need government policy, we don't need any of this stuff. The pure market will now drive it to just going fully down a renewables route. The problem is that the amount that we need is just so huge that we need to get much more quickly to the SMRs and other mechanisms. Yeah, it's also regular. We need to get rid of the delays due to regulations

and permitting. I mean, this is what's going to slay us. Like, if we can make permitting super, super fast, and this is where AI can support it. But if I go back to my earlier point, if we put SMR in in far-off distant remote areas of the US or Alaska or God knows where you'll end up with a Capability to generate energy because then you can just plug in AI data center next to it. Yeah, and you're in great shape So I think we'll see a ton of that. I don't think the regulatory is that much of a big deal right now

I think it's just the sheer Sheer amount that we need that we have to figure out. Everybody, I hope you're enjoying this episode. You know, earlier this year, I was joined on stage at the 2025 Abundance Summit by a rock star group of entrepreneurs, CEOs, investors, focused on the vision and future for AGI, humanoid robotics, longevity, blockchain, basically the next trillion dollar opportunities. If you weren't at the Abundance Summit, it's not too late. You can watch the entire Abundance Summit online by going to exponentialmastery.com.

That's exponentialmastery.com. All right, so MasterCard unveils AgentPay, agentic payment technology to power commerce in the age of AI. So it's not just MasterCard, it's going to be all the credit cards. I think there's a very near future where I speak and stuff shows up on my doorstep. I don't think about it. It just magically happens. In fact, I'll take it a step further. I think AI is going to be listening to my conversations when I say, you know, Salim,

I really love that shirt and it knows I need a shirt. So just, you know, asks your AI where you got that shirt and then it just delivers to me magically the next day. I'm trying to see how you got there from this. Well, I think we crush advertising and I think we crush the ability to select payment methods. I think your AI is just doing all this stuff automatically for you. Yeah. Bill Gross and I were talking earlier today, Peretta AI, your good friend, about this exact topic of advertising will get crushed.

What do you mean exactly there? Because Google has $300 billion of advertising revenue. You're saying that that's going to get crushed. But that's exactly actually Richard Socher, our mutual friend, was saying that in their tests, the revenue per session of an AI dialogue versus a Google search is about one tenth to one hundredth. And so where does that put Google if they start, you know, when you do a Google search

now at the top thing is the AI answer and then the ads start below that. So that's already got to be cannibalizing the revenue. So it puts Google in a really tough spot trying to figure out do we cannibalize our own ad revenue. But you're exactly right. The future belongs to chatting with your trusted agent and your trusted agent making good suggestions for you and then saying yeah just go out and buy that or just go ahead and sign up for that. Yeah well we've mentioned this before but I think the holy grail here is your your Jarvis

equivalent right where your agent will kind of act on your behalf and is bound to you with your preferences habits, etc Then you can put a lot of trust in and just let it go to town and see what happens and have a feedback loop So it just tweaks it that seems a no-brainer to me I just spent the most unbelievable amount of time dealing with flight tickets and logistics and see changes I mean, it was just it was just bullshit Eric I was on this panel of the Future of AI Working thing with Eric Brynjolfsson and a few others,

and they called it white collar drudgery. There's a ton of that that's going on, and I think this is where we'll be able to have huge impact with AI. Yeah, we should keep tracking this thread, because trust, you know, when do you trust AI, when do you not trust it? This is just a subset, but it's a good, it's an important one.

Hey, my credit card is a pretty important thing. Do I trust it? Self- just a subset, but it's a good, it's important one. Hey, my credit card is a pretty important thing. Do I trust it? Self-driving obviously is even more trust. Then you've got life decisions. What do I leave to my kids? Do I buy that house? Do I get a new roof? Like those decisions are also definitely trust decisions.

So we should track, a lot changes week to week. We should track what people trust, what people don't trust. Because God knows the AI is going to be incredibly convincing. I think one of the superpowers AI will have is its ability and command over language. So like an amazing politician who's able to take you from wherever you were and sway your point of view. So MasterCard wants to use AgentPay to become my default payment system. Saleem, you were talking about Bitcoin in this earlier today. You want to share some thoughts? Well, I think here where we've been talking about cryptos, payment mechanisms,

right? And you've got this spectrum of stuff that's really hard to mine, and Bitcoin is not that easy to do payments on. And then you get gold, say, if you want to use the old analogy. Then you have bank vaults and jewelry. That's not that easy to transact. And then you get to bank accounts, and then you get to credit card. And you have this spectrum of the smaller the transaction, the less security you need, and therefore you can get the credit card and you have the spectrum of the smaller the transaction the less security you need and therefore you can make the usability much easier etc. What's happened with crypto is along with things like the lightning network on the Bitcoin protocols now the payments are really really easy and I think we're gonna see crypto type type payments scale very, very fast, especially with the digital, the fiat currencies moving

over to the crypto world. We're going to see incredible things happen there. And I think that'll be the biggest trigger for usage of blockchains and so on for handling all of that stuff. There's a startup, and I'm on the advisory board of that is trying to figure this out because one of the biggest problems with trade globally, separate from all the tariff stuff, is that big countries don't like big chunks of foreign reserves leaving their shores. So they make it really difficult to put capital controls in place and make it really hard. Yeah.

There's this famous story of GE selling a hundred million worth of jet engines to China and they took in receipt 150 million worth of frozen chickens as payment. And the 50 million does not have to do with all these chickens. That's so, so hence the margin. But it turns out that type of transaction is rampant in big companies because China's like, we don't want $100 million leaving our shores. Right. And so this is going to a combination of crypto plus the some of these payment rails is going to change the game with some of these big transactions. And on the smaller side, AI plus some of these will make things really radically much easier. I love it.

Digital chickens. So here's another one. Dave, I think you added this one. NVIDIA acquires Gretel to power Next Gen AI. Tell us about this story. Yeah, I think this is important because we talked last time about the CoreWeave IPO, which is holding up just fine. Is that the bellwether to the markets opening?

M&A has been very quiet. Now you're starting to see some deal flow and that all ties back to the IPO markets opening up. The last three years have been the most dead in the history of the country in terms of IPOs. So if that comes roaring back, that'll unlock a lot. So this is a good one to track here. But what you're seeing here is NVIDIA recognizing that synthetic data is incredibly strategic. And we talked about Richard Sochers, got these 10 areas of AI, some of which run unbounded and others are throttled or hobbled by some constraint. But math is unbounded, coding is unbounded, why?

Because you can generate a near infinite amount of synthetic data, which means the AI can continue to learn, and then you can build really easy evals, like did the AI do something useful or is it buggy, does it not work? So the math is provable, the code is debuggable automatically, and those areas require synthetic data. But you look across the other areas like biotech and everything else, the synthetic data is the constraint, you know, because the AI can run wild to the extent that it can generate synthetic data. So I think NVIDIA being in the middle of the hot

seat realizes, oh my God, what a great opportunity to create some kind of a moat. Let's pick up Gretel and let's build out a synthetic data competency as part of our overall, like while we're top of the world, we need to think about how to defend our position on top of the world. So that's why they picked up Gretel. Nice. Yeah, I think this is a really great strategic thing. You saw Zoom doing the same thing

when its market cap went soaring high, they started buying up a whole bunch of stuff, leveraging the currency while it was high. Yeah, as an investment theme, synthetic data is very different in each domain. Obviously, the full cell simulator synthetic data there in biotech is going to be very different than in math. So it's a great repeatable investment theme if you can find really, really smart teams.

Because I think Nvidia could easily acquire 10 more companies doing different types of things. Are you investing at LinkXPV in synthetic data? Yeah, we have DataSebo, which is a co-invest with Mark Gorenberg, the chairman at MIT. They do numerical, columnized synthetic data, so things like actuarial or whatever. But again, if you had physical world synthetic data, like simulators for physical objects, driving data,

those are all investable. We'll do any synthetic data company we can find if it has a great team. Fantastic. All right, here's one I added. Kleiner Perkin leads a 130 million dollar round in Coinbase Founders anti-aging startup Ulim you limit let me break this down so. Brian Armstrong and Blake Byers both our friends can have Brian on this moon shots podcast sometime next month. They're both passionate about about longevity and what we've seen is a number of billionaires investing in something called epigenetic Reprogramming. So what is that? So as I like to remind people you get 3.2 billion letters from your mom 3.2 billion letters from your dad That's your genome about 22,000 genes and you have that same software when you're born

When you're 20 when you're 50 when you're 100 and so the is, if you're running the same software, why do you look different? Why don't you have a six-pack at age 100 that you had when you were 18? And it turns out it's not the genes you have, it's your epigenome, epi from the Greek word for above, it's your control system, it's which genes are on and which genes are off. And as you get older, the genes that should be on get silenced, get turned off. The genes that should be off get turned on. And there's a whole bunch of issues. Folks like George Church, David Sinclair have been pioneering this. And epigenetic reprogramming is can we turn back the clock and set your

epigenome to an earlier state and the data appears to be not only yes but hell yes and it's probably one of the hottest areas of age reversal work and longevity. So I just find it fascinating that Brian is investing here. We've seen Jeff Bezos and Yuri Milner invest in Altos Labs. Sam Altman invested in retro with Joe Betts-Lecroi. Same areas, epigenetic reprogramming. So very exciting. And it should be noted that a lot of this is now made possible because of AI. Oh, how so?

Because the ability to actually process all the data from the experiments and decide what transcription factors to use. We are 40 trillion human cells running about 2 to 5 billion chemical reactions per second. And just trying to understand the amount of data is really hard. And so when I visited both Brian and Blake at New Limit, and they're very proud, the majority of their team are all AI first

technologists You know, they're not they're not lab geeks. So leave many thoughts here I I think just you know as these as our AI metals get more sophisticated the ability to apply them That number blows I never stop shaking my head when you say that number of two and a half billion Things per chemical processes per second. Yeah, not maybe like that's across the body, but there's some incredible Per cell that's per cell, right? million cells, right Yeah, it's just it's just mind-boggling

Yeah, how how the complexity of what goes on in there? So it's going to be amazing to see what's possible going forward. Well, definitely not my area of expertise, but I remember clearly I took AP Bio in high school and then I got to MIT. I said, yeah, not doing that anymore because all we're doing is memorizing random, you know, Krebs cycles. There's no way this is actually going to work. There must be billions of times more things going on than what we're memorizing here.

So true, so true. All right, here's one. I have two 13, soon to be 14 year old boys. Saleem, you have one and Roblox is part of their, if not daily diet, weekly diet. And I found this amazing. So Roblox averaging up to 43% of Netflix users with 97.8 million average daily active users, 7.2 billion hours.

It's just exploded onto, you know, we can see this rapid, rapid growth of the gaming world. Dave, did your boys all sort of go deep into the gaming world? Well, it's interesting. I wouldn't say they were big-time gamers, but if you look at the amount of time they spent on interactive media, including Fortnite and some video games, much, much higher than passive media like movies and, you know, Star Trek or whatever. And so, you know, that's just the trend line.

But yet AI on top of video games, and it's so incredibly engaging, there's no way people are going to go back and watch passive media again. And I think it's about, I mean, it still really hasn't hit, right? So if you're in if you're in Minecraft or in Roblox, the amount of AI generated reality and the amount of AI interaction with you, we're going to see a lot of advancement in the gaming world in the next few years. Yeah, you know, the other thing is gaming is dominated by young boys and largely misses the girls for whatever reason, but it definitely misses older people

The new super engaging AI voices actually tend to cover everybody and so it's going to be a lot broader appeal So any numbers you see in this world are are going to go up, you know tremendously just by covering the rest of of humanity also, you know a lot of You know, mr. Beast now, I think, is the most recognized person on the planet, which is, you know, shocking. That might be among stars or some other qualifier there, but it's an incredible stat. But one of the secrets to Mr. Beast's incredible success is internationalization of all content. You know, when you see Mr. Beast in any jurisdiction, any country, any language, his voice is that language

and his lips move perfectly or well for that language. So you wouldn't even know that it wasn't shot for you in the Congo. And so he mastered that using AI and that got him a lot of the footprint. Same thing applies here to internationalizing the language but also the content and the media making it a cultural fit for every jurisdiction. What struck me about this was the almost all of that increment is mobile stuff. So they're

doing it everywhere. That's crazy. Yeah, amazing. All right, let's move on here. Let's talk about what's going on in the space world. The first news is that Amazon, this is Jeff Bezos, launches the first launch of Project Coopier, its first batch of internet satellites. So we've seen head to head Elon and Bezos sort of like marching up the curve in space. So Amazon launched 27 satellites of their global internet. This ultimately will be thousands of satellites in orbit. I find it interesting. They used an Atlas 5. So, of course, Jeff has something called Blue Origin, which is building rockets.

Today, it's launching suborbital flights, but it did get one of its first new Glenn vehicles to orbit. But I think he's feeling pressure to get Coupier up and running at the same time that Starlink is now probably close to 8,000, 9,000 satellites. So they're buying launches from ULA instead of using his own launch vehicle. It's going to be interesting to have these two internet constellations in orbit operating. Here's a question I have. Have you seen, Peter, any kind of estimate as to once you've got high functioning internet over space, which we kind of have just what are there now, how much will move to that versus terrestrial internet? Yeah, it's a good question. You still

have time delays, but one of our next articles coming up, which we'll talk about, which is quantum teleportation, would get rid of time delays. And so if you add quantum teleportation on satellite constellations, yeah, it's instantaneous and global. I mean, it starts to get pretty freaky. We're going to start, we'll have, I think, probably 30,000, 40,000 com satellites in orbit. We'll have a constellation around the orbit. We'll have a constellation around

the moon, we'll have a constellation around Mars, all of those will be cross-linked by laser and so you'll have an interplanetary internet up and operating very shortly. Vint Cerf has been talking about that for a while. In fact, he's designed the communication protocols for that. Yeah, he has indeed and it's all playing out. Here's the second space article that SpaceX has asked increase their rate of Starship launches. So Starship of course is the fully reusable version. It will replace Falcon 9, the most successful launch vehicle in

all of human history. And Elon has said as soon as Starship is operational he will shut down the Falcon 9 Want the factory and We've seen, you know permission for five launches a year they're asking for 25 launches per year out of Boca Chica, which is Starbase and you know You know, he's gotten a lot of criticism for the failures of Starship You know, it still has not had a fully successful mission But oh my god what he's been able to pull off is nothing short of extraordinary and I hate it when he has this amazing

Launch, you know the mechzilla captures the booster Which is like the engineering feat of the of the decade, if not the century century. Yeah. And then and Starship doesn't make it to a landing. And of course, the front page articles are SpaceX fails again. Yeah. Crazy. We focus on bad news. But the one thing bugged me really bugged me about this particular article, Peter, was that if the FAA had them allowing five and now they're allowing 25, why do they care?

Why do you have to get approval for the number of launches? This makes no sense to me. It's environmental impact. They're incrementally trying to make sure that, and I hate to say this, you know, that they're not killing the number of turtles or that the impact of... What are you kidding? But once you've done a few, which he has, you know the environmental impact, there should be no... they should have nothing to say about you do 10 more 20 more 50. They don't want unbridled unrestricted operations That's hilarious

You know, you know the math as well as I do it's hilarious Yeah, you did your 11-year penance there Peter on with zero G I did my 11-year penance on you know, it's like the FAA is not happy until you're not happy. I But it's like the FAA is not happy until you're not happy. I do wonder a lot whenever you see a Starship blows up or whatever that a lot of the backlash is actually political. You know, people are, are pissed off and, you know, and actually a lot of Elon's support base was, you know, very green energy, Tesla oriented. And so now they're all pissed off.

But I think, I think he's doing, he's doing what he thinks is absolutely best for the world regardless of the cost. I mean, this Starship will get us back to the moon. It's the only vehicle to get us there. The NASA government projects I don't think will end up getting to the moon. I think they're just too expensive and too risky. Starship will get us to the moon. Starship will set orbital fuel depots. Starship will get us to Mars. It's an incredibly well-designed vehicle. And he just needs to continually iterate it. People don't realize that when airplanes begin test flights, every test flight is a small iteration. And airplanes may have hundreds of test flights

in their test flight program before they get certified as safe for use. So we need to expect that Starship will have hundreds of test flights, each one of them getting more data and demonstrating increasing margins and safety until it's like, yep, this is going to be great to operate, just like autonomous cars. But unfortunately, these incremental test flights are very visible. And when they go wrong, you know, New York

Times is here to talk about it. I mean, it's explicit that they run dozens and dozens of experiments per flight because that gives them the maximum rate of learning, right? Yeah, of course. And exactly, they're changing the margins on the material type. They're changing how they stage. They're changing their reentry characteristics.

Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night, religiously, called One Skin. It was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a synolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. This literally reverses the age of your skin And I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes. I've asked my team to link to it below. All right, let's get back to the episode. All right, let's get to this fun article

here. I'll read it from the BBC. Quantum teleportation is here. Quantum teleportation is the instant transfer of quantum information, not matter, between two points. It uses quantum entanglement where two particles stay connected even miles apart. So the first real-world test worked over 30 kilometers of standard fiber optic cable carrying internet traffic. So this is the idea that if you know I remember years ago all of the quant traders moved their fiber optic nodes very close to the financial centers right because of course you know nanoseconds matter to them. So I think they're gonna be using quantum teleportation here for instant communication capability.

If we end up using it for stock prices, I'll be very disappointed. But your point is right. Look, the amazing thing is that this is happening. I think the reality check is this will take quite a while to commercialize and get reliable and for kind of real world applications. But the fact that they're able to do is mind boggling. Yeah, it's fun to think about. Well, why do we think it'll take a while

to become real at scale, other than everything takes a while to be? I spent some time at the Perimeter Institute at Waterloo, where the BlackBerry founders have given a huge chunk of money and they'd broken up quantum kind of research into three chunks. One was the pure computation, the second was communication, and third was networking. And you have to rebuild the entire stack of how you do it for each of those. So there's a whole bunch of innovation that has to happen and engineering

that has to happen for all of those three segments to have reliable communications and teleportations, certainly at scale. So it'll take a while to get there. They've been going at this for, I think, close to 30 years. And they're now getting to this point. So I think it'll be a little while longer but when it happens, holy moly. The nice thing is it's over standard fiber optics, right?

It's not new equipment. We're not needing to build out a new network. Right. Here's another fun article in the realm of sort of future forward space. Electron Dance Breakthrough. Scientists uncover clues to practical superconductors. Researchers discovered superconductivity varies at the atomic scale

within individual unit cells of iron-based materials. I won't read the rest, but we've been talking about one of the major benefits that AI will give us is major breakthroughs in material sciences. And superconductivity would be a huge deal because we can generate, I mean, at the extreme, you can put, you know, solar cells around the planet and if it's nighttime here in the US, you could have solar being generated in Europe and having a superconductive cable back to the US and you basically get no loss. No transmission loss, right?

Which is about 30% or something. It depends on the distance, of course. But it's a huge amount. And so this would be very huge. I remember Shy Mackinay is one of our GSP Singularity students in 2010 or 2011 saying he figures we're about a decade away from understanding superconductivity and getting to room temperature superconductivity at the lab level. And so this sounds like we're coming close to that. Well if it's's a decade out, you know, we're going to have Gen 3 fission and fusion.

You know, and those are very small reactors so they can be sprinkled around. Yeah. So that may not matter on that. There's a big race between this and distributed energy systems that makes it less relevant. Yeah, that's right. All right. Let's talk one of our favorite subjects. At least it's a favorite subject for Salim and I. Actually Dave, I don't know, are you like a big Bitcoin believer? I know our third

fraternity brother is. Well you know I was on the board of MicroStrategy back in the day so I've been a shareholder for many many years so I wouldn't say I was ever you know a Bitcoin direct you, early adopter, but Mike Saylor has dragged me along. Well, let me ask the question. You know, do you own Bitcoin? Yeah, MechaStrategy, yeah. You own MechaStrategy, but not Bitcoin directly?

No, not directly. Okay. Mostly because I'd lose the keys and, you know. Well, fair enough. I can make some introductions. So here is Brian Armstrong, CEO Coinbase, speaking about the US holding Bitcoin. Let's take a listen. But I think it's clear at this point that Bitcoin is a better form of money than gold. It is presumably scarce just like gold, but it's more portable and divisible.

So you can actually use it. It has higher utility, I would say. And it was the best performing asset of the last 10 years. And so for store of value, I think it's going to be important for governments to hold this over time. It may not, it might start with being 1% of their reserves, but I think over time it'll come to be equal to or greater than gold reserves. So Selene, I want you way in here.

I think this is mind-boggling to me. I spoke at a conference of 100 of the top partners of one of the biggest accounting firms in the world. And when I asked them how many of you understand the Byzantine generals problem, one put up their hand. Right. And you're like, this thing is going to eat your lunch in terms of trust and reliability, which is essentially what you sell.

And you don't understand the core innovation that's taken place in it, which really is unbelievable to me. When micro strategies put Bitcoin on the balance sheet, every CFO in the goddamn world should be looking at that and saying, I need to put something in there. It's unbelievably responsible if you're the Treasury Secretary of some country, not to put Bitcoin as a reserve thing. This should be happening in every country in the world. And one of the things we've noticed before, where I've commented before, it's fascinating seeing the amount of my investment portfolio growing because of Bitcoin, not because I'm getting more Bitcoin, because it's just getting more valuable. And so this is like irresponsible, financially irresponsible to the extreme level. I'll just

give one other piece of this, which is I was talking to a major money management firm in one of the G7 countries, and they're like, yeah, we don't allow our wealth manager wealth advisors to transact in Bitcoin at all they're not allowed to advise it to their clients because it's they deem it too uncertain and too risky and you're like look at the goddamn value over time you're I've got I've got a better they're scared of the legal liability if they anything and I'm like look saying that I'm do you realize the liability if you don't recommend it? During the course of our conversation here, Bitcoin is now at 96,450. It's gone up

1500 bucks during the course of our podcast conversation. Well, let's try and drive it up by talking about it more. I'll give you another case study. I'm the chairman and majority or controlling shareholder of two companies, about a thousand employees. One of them has about 50 million in cash, just sitting there in cash. The other has 125 million in cash, ever quote, public company, 125 million in cash and making, you know, a lot of cash every quarter. I gave both CEOs green light, put any amount of that you want into Bitcoin and borrow and do what Mike Saylor did. Neither reacted or acted on it. And I don't want to interfere, otherwise I'll be, you know, I'll be involved.

But it's amazing. Like, well, I mean, you know, believe that you're obligated. They're they're both great, great leadership teams. I don't want to get. Yeah. I mean, we did the same thing. Salim at XPRIZE, we were holding a large amount of capital And it was like yes, you know teeth

Both on my board. I need you to help convince the other old tier Bogey board members Excuse me if you're listening guys, you're brilliant. I love love you but can we please put our treasury to Bitcoin? An easy thing to do there would be to take a small fraction of it you know and and this one and this letter do of one cycle around. Yes, small fraction like 80%. Yeah well it makes Mike Saylor all the more impressive that he you know without any role you know now you have a role model without any role model. But's just the amount of inertia.

But this is the part that drives me nuts. Now that we have a role model, right? If you're a CFO of a public company, what the hell are you doing? Yeah. Sorry. You're really driving me nuts. You're doing what you've always done because that's the least risky and you can't get blamed for doing that.

So listen, this is the same thing in all technology companies. It is the founder-led exponential tech, AI-first companies that are going to slay everybody else. And so when Michael Saylor, again by way of background, Michael was a fraternity brother with Dave Blunden and myself at MIT at Theta Delta Chi, our fraternity. And when you're sailor, you can say, we are doing this. And he has a very small board. And he basically sat them down, gave them homework, and got them to back him. And he's just been at it. So the first week of May, he actually sells equity and buys another 180 million of Bitcoin.

So today, very impressive, MicroStrategy owns basically a half a million Bitcoin, which is about 2.8% of all the Bitcoin in circulation worth $52.8 billion. Michael owns about 17,000 more Bitcoin than I do. Oh, you're doing well. You know, Mike, not only did he have to do exactly what you said, but he had to go over more Bitcoin than I do. Oh, you're doing well. You know, Mike, not only did he have to do exactly what you said, but he had to go over to Mike Willans at Fidelity, you know,

another MIT alum and say, hey, I need to custody this somewhere. Can Fidelity build out an entire business unit to custody Bitcoin? And Mike, you know, to his credit, Mike Willans built it out at Fidelity. That's a lot of difficult work that's now been done for you.

Yes. But pioneering, it was very hard for a lot of reasons, including that one. You can't just keep the keys in your shoe box at the office headquarters. You gotta have some kind of custody insurance. Multi-sig protocols and all sorts of stuff. Yeah.

So I just checked the market cap of MicroStrategy that closed today was 105.4 billion while holding 52.8 billion of coins. And you know, the value it's being given for his mindset and what he does is extraordinary. It is. Funny, I was sitting down with my mom who's in her 80s going through her estate and she had this spreadsheet she put together and there's this line item with this huge number in it.

I was like, what the hell is that? She said, oh, you know, remember when you worked at MicroStrategy when you were like in your 20s? I was like, yeah. She said, I bought some MicroStrategy back then. Wait, you're still holding that? And she said, yeah, well, I don't know how to sell it. So I didn't. Go mom.

That is so great. That is fantastic. Well, I think that's our last story for today. But, you know, it's it's so much fun. You guys have been as much of a blast as I am. Oh god, I look forward to this all week. It's really a great checkpoint where we can kind of go, okay, what happened? Bring some slides into play and just take a checkpoint. I find it's a really great cadence to, plus all the viewers. I hear that, by the way, from a few of the folks watching. They were like, it's really great because we can kind of every week or two stop in

and see what's going on. We feel like we're caught up. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the goal here. And so, you know, in the if you're on YouTube in the comments below, tell us what else you'd like us to cover. You know, you can happily tell me how much more brilliant Dave is and Salim is than I am. That's fine. So it's fun. So when we say WTF just happened in tech,

well, there you get a slice of it. We'll see you guys in a week or two when enough stuff starts mounting, when we say, okay, we gotta get the bad back together again. Awesome. All right, Salim, got to get the bad back together again. Uh, awesome. All right. So lean, where are you? Great conversation.

Guys. Where are you now? Are you back in New York? I'm back in New York for like three days and then I go to Italy for three days. Yeah. What is going on? It's just, it's just, uh, it's just a busy time right now. You're insane.

I love you for it. And Dave, you're back in Cambridge at headquarters. I'm in Cambridge. And I'll tell you one thing, Peter. I love every time I talk to Daniela Ruse over at CSAIL or Alex Wisner-Groves or Alexander Romini over at Liquid AI, I can say, hey, we've got this WTF podcast coming up. What's on your mind? And they're like, yes.

It's such a good way to keep the dialogue. I love it. So I want you guys piling in in your best stories those secret stories. You've got you've got Alex weasel gross is a super weapon there and Salim you've got an entire EXO community. So yeah bring him in and See you guys very soon. Thanks for your time Everybody thanks for listening to Moonshots. This is the content I love sharing with the world. Every week I put out two blogs, a lot of it from the content here, but these are my personal

journals of things that I'm learning, the conversations I'm having about AI, about longevity, about the important technology transforming all of our worlds. If you're interested, again, please join me and subscribe at diamandis.com slash subscribe. That's diamandis.com slash subscribe. See you next week on Moonshots.