Moore Style - A Deeper Understanding of Male Sexuality with Cam Fraser

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

When it comes to masculinity, we’ve all heard the surface-level locker room talk centered around gratification and penis size. After experiencing this himself in his early 20s, Cam Fraser knew that there needed to be deeper conversations around male sexuality. Now as a professional sex coach and certified sexologist, Cam helps men go beyond surface-level sex into full-bodied sexual experiences. If you’re curious about the deeper side of men's sexuality, this episode will open your eyes to the discussions we need to be having and how it’s not as straightforward as we’ve been led to believe. We explore the lack of education around non-concordance, the importance of ethical porn, and how to shift into pleasure-oriented masculinity.  Both men and women can benefit from this week’s episode so make sure to listen in! In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:40] About Cam Fraser [02:32] How Cam’s college experience impacted his decision to become a sex coach and sexologist [19:39] Performance-oriented vs. pleasure-oriented masculinity  [26:02] How to communicate your emotions by connecting with your body [29:19] Where does the obsession with penis size come from? [41:10] The importance of representation in porn [45:00] Sexual dysfunction and anxiety [49:02] Exploring men's sexuality on a deeper level [57:39] Cam’s favorite date   Connect with Cam Fraser: Website   Instagram   Outperform A Porn Star   Man Myths: Understanding Male Sexuality

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty Podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena. So let's get into today's episode.

Welcome everybody today to another episode of the Down and Dirty podcast. As always, I'm your host Celeste Moore. Today I'm so excited and honored to be able to speak to my guest, Cam Frazier. But before I dive into today's episode, I just wanted to say thank you for all the continued support you give me listening and downloading these episodes. I love that I get to do what I do and interview amazing experts here with their respective fields, whom not only you learn from, but I do as well. So I would love to introduce my guest today. So Cam is a certified professional sex coach and a certified sexologist. Being a former tantric yoga teacher, his work integrates scientifically validated, medically accurate information about sexual health with

sacred sexuality teachings from the mystery traditions. As a coach, he helps men go beyond surface-level sex and into full-bodied, self-expressed, pleasure-oriented sexual experiences free of anxiety and or shame. Well, thank you, Cam, for being on today's show to educate the audience here. Welcome. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me and thanks for using your platform to have these types of conversations as well. It's super valuable, at least in my opinion. I'm a bit biased. I agree. But I'm excited. I'm excited to dive in. Awesome. Okay. So I would basically just love to start off kind of how your journey began to become a sex coach and sexologist for men.

yeah yeah so um i'll be concise or as concise as i can be with regards to this story but it kind of started when i left home when i was 17 to go and study in america i went over on so i'm from australia and i went over to america on a sporting scholarship i was a soccer player and this well the university that i went to was in georgia so like the deep south it was in yeah it was in and it was in rural georgia as well it wasn't in like atlanta or savannah it was like right in the middle of the state and you know i spent two years there and the the university was well the tagline of the university was unapologetically baptist so it was very yeah it was very what's the term like bible something excuse me i've got a bit of a frog in my throat

this morning and so the the atmosphere of this little community that i was a part of and that I went to school in for two years was like very sexually repressive and very like shame oriented you know so to give you an example one of the classes that I went to was because I studied psychology at the time the class that I took was Christian approaches to human sexuality and the the messages that we received from that class was you know I mean you could probably hazard a guess but premarital sex is a sin contraceptives are not useful or shouldn't be used homosexuality is a sin you know any type of sexual expression beyond that kind of heteronormative man and wife sex is for making babies type of rhetoric was considered sinful right essentially and so that message

was really strong not only in that class but in that community and so i started to see how that was negatively impacting the young people around me you know i was 17 18 19 years old at the time and the rhetoric of shame around your sexuality was like compounded by a lot of these young people's desire to actually want to express themselves just what young people do essentially right they started to explore their identity they're starting to go out and you know drink on the weekends and have fun with other young people and so there was this you know this desire for these young people including myself right i was one of these young people to to like explore their sexuality and to like express themselves but do that was to like go against all this

religious coding right in this purity culture shaming and so i saw a lot of i saw a lot of people being in like really unhealthy situations unhealthy relationships with there was a lot of verbal abuse a lot of like physical abuse if i'm brutally honest as well in these young people's relationships there was a lot of like repenting on sunday morning you know of all the stuff that he did that week and and it just didn't seem very healthy to me and that was like kind of the first light bulb the reason i share that story is because that was the first light bulb for me of like oh sex education and human sexuality is like important and it's something that i think needs to be talked about and so you know whilst i was observing that as kind of like this third

party in this community I also was going through my own personal stuff so I was you know I don't want to give this impression that I was some sort of enlightened young teenager because I certainly wasn't I was drinking quite heavily as well I was really insecure about who I was as a young man I fit the collegiate athlete kind of trope and I also coming from Australia like really played up my Australian-ness that was my way of like forming an identity was just being more Australian than I was back home here in australia my friends used to say when i came back home from the u.s they were like how are you sounding more australian having lived in america for the last couple of years and it was because that was how i formed my identity right i felt very insecure about being

a young man in a foreign kind of country in a you know different community and so i relied on some really you know stereotypical masculine tropes right i was the athlete you know and then i was a drinker and then you know beyond that as well i like really in my approach to like young women and dating and sexuality was just quantity over quality i was just having a lot of like really shitty casual sex essentially as a young man and that was so i could brag to my mates right so i could like fit the masculine ideal or that macho bravado kind of like locker room culture ideal or whatever it means to be a young man and that was like you know that i did it but it was there i was very insecure and very anxious about all of that i had a lot of performance anxiety you know

sexually speaking the way that i navigated that at that age was by drinking you know by essentially drinking so much to the point where either i wasn't able to get an erection or i just passed out if you know i was supposed to be going home with a young woman or was supposed to like you the intonation was we were going to be sexual with one another i drink to the point where i could blame alcohol for anything that went wrong i could be like oh i don't have an erection oh it's just the booze like it's just whiskey dick or brewer's droop and and then it became a funny story for me to tell my mates the next day so the booze was a scapegoat for all of my anxiety and insecurity about being not only a man but being a sexual man at that age as well right because i

was very concerned about like performing well enough sexually then also performing my masculinity to be well enough for my mates like if I let that mask slip and ever expressed my vulnerability or ever expressed like my insecurities or anxieties then I was fearful that I would be you know seen as lesser than as as weak or as effeminate or as like not manly enough and so it was a lot of anxiety for me to like keep up this facade essentially and so that was like what was happening for me at that time and I spent two years there in that community kind of doing that two years and I transferred to another university this time in Iowa actually in the cornfields and that was it was still it's still a you know a Christian denomination so it was Catholic so I

did you know Catholic ethics classes and things like that and contraception was still seen as like a sin and you shouldn't be using and so again really like a real lack of sex education and saw how that detrimentally impacted the young people and myself in those communities as well like I was taking on board those messages. And very serendipitously, I suppose, I seriously injured my back. I fractured my lower spine and my road to rehabilitation, I suppose, introduced me to Pilates and to yoga and to massage, to breath work, to meditation, to all these like really beautiful healing modalities. And so I had to start going to these classes. And what I started noticing was you know i'd be doing a pilates class i'd be like doing a particular exercise

on the reformer and there'd be an older woman next to me who was just nailing this exercise she'd been doing it for years and i i couldn't do it as a you know 19 20 year old man and it would make me so angry i'd get so frustrated that i couldn't do this particular exercise like disproportionately angry at this reformer right and and all this rage would just kind of bubble the surface and then I noticed when I was doing yoga classes or getting a massage that I'd be doing a really gentle pose or holding a certain posture or I'd be getting massaged in a certain part of my back and all of a sudden just tears would start welling up and I just want to cry I just want to burst down to tears and you know looking back now I realized what was happening

was all this stuff that I'd been holding on to all the emotions that I felt that I wasn't allowed to express as a man especially as a young man in that kind of community i was storing in my body right and and by working somatically by working on the body i was starting to release those that hadn't out there but at the time as a young dude i was like you can't be having these emotions i can't be you know my mates can't know that i'm crying in bloody yoga class my mates can't know that i'm getting angry at you know this pilates machine so i was like i need to get rid of these emotions i shouldn't be having these experiences i need to go and do something about this so I felt like I had a problem to solve with regards to like my emotionality and so I went and saw a

therapist and I pretty much went in with the idea of like I need to go to therapy so I can get rid of these emotions I don't want to have them and very quickly of course my therapist was like well no emotions are actually healthy and you're supposed to have them and we just need to find healthy ways for you to express them and I ended up doing narrative therapy which is like in a nutshell essentially looking at all the stories that you tell yourself about what it means to be a human being in my case what it means to be a young man and discerning do those stories come from external sources like society religion media your parents whoever or do they come from internal sources are they stories that you think are beneficial about you know being this type of

way in the world and passing through what is helpful what is not and then if need be rewriting your own stories being like this is what it means for me to be a young man this is what it means for me to be masculine this is what it means for me to show up with integrity and honesty and you know that was really helpful for me personally because i had taken on all these stories about what it means to be a young white australian man living in america right i said before i hammed up my australianness and that was not helping me at all because it felt really fake and my mates would call it out when I went back home I approached sex with this idea that like excuse the the language but like every hole is a goal was my approach to sex it was really like I didn't treat people with

humanity essentially myself included and so these stories about you know who I was were not beneficial for me they were causing me a lot of anxiety mental health issues I was drinking quite a lot like I said and they weren't beneficial for the people around me they weren't respectful to the women they weren't you know respectful to the other men around me as well like I was still adhering to that kind of hierarchical way of like oh if you're not man enough then you're lesser than and you're weak or you're you're a pussy or whatever other language it is and so I kind of shared those stories and I started rewriting what it meant for me to be a young man and in the most compassionate way possible you know I stopped giving a fuck what my mates thought about me you

know I stopped really caring that much about what they thought about me and whether they thought I was man enough or whatever and started being much more secure in my masculinity and who i was and and you know to speak specifically to the sex side of things which is where i am today i noticed that the talk therapy through narrative therapy and also the somatic work the body work through bloodies and massage and things like that transformed the way that i had sex because it transformed in two ways but both on the physical level i was able to breathe i was able to relax i was able to experience pleasure essentially i was much more i was looser when i was being sexual with a partner i wasn't so tense and tight and struggling to get an erection i was

able to like you know essentially just breathe through the experience and have a really pleasurable time in my body then also i felt much more secure about who i was so i was asking a lot more questions right i didn't just adhere to this script of oh the man's got to be the pursuer the initiator the assertive partner the person who does this the person who does that i stopped what i like to say is i stopped shooting myself right i should do this as a man and i started just going what is my partner like what does my partner enjoy what do i actually enjoy do i actually enjoy doing sex this way or is there much more other things to explore so i i became a lot more open and communicative with my sexual partners as well and like those two things

drastically changed the way that i started having sex and i also stopped drinking as well for a little while. So that was really helpful for just like connecting back in with my body and my partners. And so long story short, I suppose those like the really formative experiences for me when I was a young man and sparked the light bulb of like, oh, sexuality, psychology, masculinity are things that are like really interesting to me and have had a profound transformative impact on my life. And so I wanted to pursue that for me, right? Personally to be like, oh, there's more here that I want to unpack. There's more here that I want to learn about. And, you know, the stuff that I talk about today is stuff that I wish people had talked to me about 15 years ago when I was going

through this part of my life. And then the reason why I do it as a job is because I didn't really have any role models. I mean, like I didn't really have anyone who was an older man who was knowledgeable, who was passionate and compassionate about like sexuality to guide me. And I didn't really see that a lot when I was going through this kind of 10, 15 year journey. So I want to be someone like that for other men. I want to kind of offer an alternative narrative, right? An alternative story about what it means to be a man, about how to show up in the world as a man. I think there's like so much boxing in of men, right? And they do that to themselves. We do it to ourselves, right? It's like we have to fit into this particular box in order to be considered

masculine or manly. And I think that's detrimental. It was for me and I do see it being detrimental to a lot of other men so i want to kind of be a guy who can offer education and guidance and inspiration about what it's like to to blaze a different trail right to like go in a different direction you don't have to follow that particular script and that looked a few different ways i was doing counseling i was doing yoga therapy and then i kind of eventually settled on sex coaching because it offers me a lot more flexibility with regards to the modalities and the trainings that i've done which includes you know higher education as well as other healing modalities like massage but i'll sum it up there by saying like you know the stuff that i put out today i think really

resonates with other men in particular because you know i share that story right share that personal story that that there's a lot of different things in there but most guys can go oh that kind of makes sense to me that resonates with me i've kind of had a similar experience and that's something that i've heard from so many guys is like you know oh wow there is something in there that that did you know resonate with my own lived experience and I hadn't really thought about it like that so yeah so that's that's why I'm here today and that's why I'm passionate about this because it's you know transformed my life yeah that's that's really amazing and I I do really feel that when you go through an experience like that there's nothing like life experience to

resonate with another person and I didn't know much of this particular industry especially directed towards men. Women have done coaching and done all sorts of things for quite some time and a little bit more comfortable. I would just say in general, generally speaking, you know, the society's put on this whole story for so long that this is the way it has to be. And this is what it's like. And that's something you experience. Wow. To come into the South, first of all the united states of all places like rural georgia and then yeah i haven't been to iowa so but i imagine it's quite the same and yeah who's teaching these young kids like something other than this crazy bible belt thing that's not everybody's religion not everybody's take on sex

so that's huge the fact that you're able to educate and and tell your story yeah thank you the only role models that i had at the time were and this sounds so cringy looking back in it were pickup artists you know like i was either getting religious messaging about what it means to be you know a young biblical man or i was getting messaging from pickup artists about what it means to be like the lothario ladies man type of character right and so both had very strong messages about sex might consider them polar opposite messages about sex but I didn't really know anyone in between I didn't really know anyone that was offering you know more grounded down to earth healthy advice around sexuality so I gravitated towards pickup artists at the time

you know I read the books and you know did the things and because I was yearning I was yearning for some guidance and for some some men to like offer some mentoring around like a big part of my insecurities which was sexuality and masculinity and that's what these pickup artist dudes did and it's what they still continue to do and it's why i still think they have like such a stranglehold on like the dating kind of community is because guys are looking for you know guidance and support and they want initiations into sexuality and dating and unfortunately that you know those kind of pickup artist characters had a really strong influence especially during that time like 10 15 years ago that like it's a little bit different today the scene's kind of changed but

there's still you know some big organizations out there that do have that pickup artist mentality which i don't think is very helpful either so what are you providing this middle ground just to tell the audience here what is what's the opposite or what's in the middle of those two yes my philosophy boils down to like a shift of psychology or a shift of approach right so a lot of like masculinity at least in my observation is what we might call performance oriented right it's you know if we take sex as a specific you know element of this for a lot of men sex is you know performance driven it's i've got to last this long i've got to be this big my dick's got to be this big i've got to give my partner this many orgasms hell i even get guys that are worried

about like their ejaculation not being big enough right so there's this this within that performance approach there's like a competition embedded in that so i've got to be more than other men i've got to be better than other men i've got to be doing you know i've got to achieve more i've got to give my partner more orgasms right and and so within that framework sex then becomes a win-lose scenario right you either have successful sex if you last a certain amount of time if you don't lose your erection after a certain amount of time if you give your partner an orgasm like there's there's criteria then for you to win and have successful sex and then if you don't meet those then sex becomes a failure right and like you lose essentially right within that competition model

and if you do you're lesser than your failure like at sex for a lot of guys is tied into their self-worth is tied into their self-esteem and so that extension of failure that goes like them i'm a failure as a man i'm a failure as a partner i'm a failure as a lover because i didn't provide the things that are you know necessary for successful sex right like you might recognize that word provide like is a is a pretty pervasive word and like masculinity men have to provide right they've got to do the things that are for women women are kind of like these passive you know things with no agency in this scenario right the sex gets done to them by the man and like that that for me isn't conducive for like pleasurable sex and and this is my shift of approach my change

of philosophy is like going from performance oriented to pleasure oriented right so very simply instead of thinking about what sex looks like focus on what sex feels like is it fun was it enjoyable for the two of you did you laugh right where did you feel the pleasure in your body like different questions right not how long did i last but how enjoyable was it right or you know rather than how big my dick is it's you know how much pleasure did i get from this particular sexual experience right like the questions and the framework is different and that goes for like if we extrapolate that outwards right rather than limiting yourself to like you know what i hear a lot of other men's influences talk about is you know to be a man or to be masculine or

masculinity what it does is it protects and it provides and it presides like over the family and Those aren't bad things. I don't want to throw the baby out of the bathwater here. I don't think that like decking, providing, presiding, whatever other language you use is bad. What I think it does is it limits you as a man, right? And so again, the shift in framework here is like, let me like expand on that. So if you protect, provide, preside, I don't know what the other P's are.

There's a whole bunch of them. Like what those things center around is not masculinity itself, but femininity, right? of things outside of masculinity right like who are you protecting are you protecting women and children right who are you providing for you're providing for women children family community whatever and who are you presiding over you're presiding over the family or presiding over the country i don't know what they talk about but like those things are centered around other or the other right the the feminine or children or the community or whatever it might be and so if those things aren't there then you know according to that kind of logic or that internal framework

like men are nothing right like masculinity that doesn't really exist and if they're not protecting anyone then he's a failure if he's not providing anything then he's a failure if he's not presiding over anything then he's a failure right like there isn't anything that is central to him there's this kind of lacking right he needs those things in order to be a man he needs these external things in order to be a man whereas you know if we kind of turn that around a bit and we focus on like pleasure like what feels good in your body what feels good for you to show up with honesty and integrity and compassion in the world like how do you fill your cup up how do you have like your cup full so that you can then show up for other people right like being i've had criticism

that's like selfish or that's like you know putting or it's like narcissistic or it's like putting yourself first and i don't think that that's the case because if we like look at the history of like what men have been doing which is like trying to put you know the women and children first right mentality like they're protecting and providing presiding like how many men are we seeing burnout how many men are we seeing like not talking about their emotions how many men are seeing like thinking that vulnerability is a weakness and so they're suffering in silence and you know we talk about like things like the male suicide rate being like sky high you know compared to women we can talk about you know men committing more violent crimes and things like that and like

one of the reasons why is because there's this like at least in my opinion this like fundamental lacking when it comes to like their definition of masculinity and so like there's this inherent and surge to like try and prove yourself and if you don't then you're a failure right and so if we can change that philosophy or change that approach to be like okay what can i do that makes me feel full what can i do that makes me feel like and the reason why i focus on pleasure is because like what can i do that makes me enjoy my life that makes me like feel filled up that's like a piece that i think is missing from a lot of men's lives i think there's a lot of gratification i think a lot of men are really good at gratifying themselves i don't think they're really good at

experiencing deep nuanced experiences of pleasure right and so i try to make a distinction between gratification and pleasure yeah i'll stop there but because i know i i love that yeah no i love that you really explain pleasure because if i'm hearing you right this is what us women have been wanting that's been the missing piece of a man as well you know it's this this new term of high value man or high value woman this high value man has these things right he's able to tap into his emotions he's able to speak his emotions right that's another huge one like not only are they're not knowing even how to communicate because they've never been taught that like no it's okay like you said when you were crying going into yoga you're like what is going on and then your

therapist was like no no no you are really supposed to feel these you're supposed to experience this that's normal and just to yeah oh you know go ahead sorry to cut you off no just to re-educate on that is huge yeah yeah yeah and part of that i feel like has to be like connecting with your body as well right like i like a practical piece of advice that i give to men who struggle to communicate their emotions is describe what you feel in your body if you don't have the vocabulary to say i feel disgruntled or agitated or i feel like i feel hurt because when you did this it made me feel like i was less of a man and that's really important to me like if that language is quite foreign to you and it's difficult to say that like describe what you feel in your

body so if you feel tension in your chest say that like you know when this happened i felt a lot of tension in my chest or i felt really heavy in my shoulders or you know i had these butterflies in my gut or it made my feet cold you know like describe what it is that you feel physically and this is a really good strategy in general because it helps you start to notice where you feel emotions in your body right because sometimes not all the time but sometimes trying to verbalize emotions can be a bit of an intellectual exercise we're trying to think of the right words and how do I get my point across and say that I don't want to hurt my partner so what word can I say that like still kind of speaks to my emotions doesn't upset them which is you know not super

helpful so if you're able to drop it into like oh I felt this like strong tension in the center of my chest and it felt like there was this weight being pressed down upon me like okay wow that's you know there's something we can do about that I suppose like let's do let me open your shoulders do a bit of breathing maybe slow down a little bit place a hand on your chest right there's some really practical things that you can do in that moment to maybe help alleviate some of that tension to help alleviate that sensation and yeah i'll stop there again but that's a very practical piece of advice that i usually give to men is like if you want to start communicating your emotions a little bit more like start with just describing like really practically describing

what you're feeling in your body and then building from there no that's a great tool for them to be able to verbalize the feeling. And like you said, we all do keep it in our bodies in some shape or form. I think as I'm getting older, I'm definitely noticing parts of my body. I'm like, oh, that was five days of stress or this was my daughter. You know, I mean, just somewhere within the body and getting in tune with it is really it's got to be really helpful to these guys out there. So I love that. Thank you for that piece of advice. But you did talk about something. We've talked about a lot of things that I kind of wanted to talk about. As a woman, I really want to understand the whole thing about penis size, right? I'm sure we've played a part on this whole big dick energy,

which I think is terrible to say, but I think, and I don't know where that came from, but it's like, if you're not like this macho, this guy, like you said, then you're not, you're not a guy, you're not masculine, you're feminine or whatever. But where does this come from? Is this like a locker room kind of competition thing the guy is like yo mine's bigger than yours like i'm gonna be better at sex i don't know it's it's quite interesting you know like because i did a bit of like looking into because i was interested in this is like where does this come from there's a bit of a universal trope of bigger is better right like we see that across most media right across most uh people whose like perceptions of the human body right for the most part like having

bigger muscles is better right especially when it comes to to men right i should be should be clear like the the bigger is better trope is like very having a bigger house is better right having a bigger bigger food bigger meal right is better right not to like shame people in the united states but like that's a pretty like common you know thing that i saw when i was in there oh yeah it was like you know the the bigger the better right and so there's like that is there right that's a piece of it there's also been like you know i hear a lot of people be like oh we're just playing porn for it right we're just playing like porn's the reason why people have penis size anxiety and like yes that's an element of it as well you know the average porn star's penis is

about three inches longer than the average civilian's penis right the people who don't form and porn there's a very practical reason why that is the case it's because you need to stick a camera in between people's genitals and if you've only got you know five inches to work with then doesn't really give you a lot of room for a camera but if you've got maybe you know eight inches to work with then it gives you a bit of extra room to like stick a camera in between people's thrusting hips it's like there's a reason why it also you know gives you more to work with on camera as well so yes that's an element of it as well is like the lack of representations of just average sized penises also a lot of men don't see and i should say a lot of straight men don't see a lot

of penises out in the wild right they're only like they're only to see penises is like you know it's maybe through porn or it's through mainstream media where full frontal male nudity is still like very stigmatized and very taboo in a lot of media you won't see it a lot and there's actually laws about it in the uk and things like that so it's like there's not a lot of opportunity to see a lot of different penises um so their their representation is skewed so that's definitely a piece of it but also like anxiety around like virility and masculinity has existed for a long long time possibly you know for all of human history i was looking at like this from southeast asia from malaysia in particular there's like this penis anxiety phenomenon which has shown up in

different pockets of the world but in the end the word for it is poro which means turtle head so like a head retracting into its shell and the anxiety right is this delusion that your penis is shrinking that you are losing your virility and your masculinity and your like male prowess and that like shows up as mass hysteria right it's kind of like turns into this collective panic and people think they're having these you know penis shrinking attacks and that's shown up in like africa and parts of europe and and the you know it kind of well they've traced it back to like one of the earliest stages was in in southeast asia but it probably didn't originate there there's been and that's been around for for hundreds of thousands of years right like this

this anxiety around like penis size so i think that's an element of as well like there's a collective like human element of like you know especially for men of like not being virile or masculine or whatever it might be so okay so like this so there's a few elements there and then it's also important to acknowledge some people some women do like bigger penises right there are size queens out there. And there are women that prefer feeling, you know, full, right. Compared to a penis that might be a bit shorter or a bit, you know, like less girthy or whatever it might be. So like, that is important to acknowledge. I just don't want to just be like, yes, it doesn't matter because it does matter to some people. Similarly for men, right. I can say to men,

oh, size doesn't matter. And they might go, well, it really does matter to me. I have a lot of anxiety about it. It's like, okay, so it does matter, right. Let's talk about ways of alleviating some of that anxiety but still making sure that you're feeling like what you're doing is important i don't want to just be like hey you shouldn't care about these things and so be it and that's all i have to say about the matter because some men do care a lot about it and so i try to like incorporate strategies for that as well but we see like 70 plus percent of men are unhappy with the size of their penis and 90 of them want their penis to be bigger so there is this like overwhelming majority of men that do think that their penis is too small or would like to

have a larger penis and i think like education around women's anatomy if you're having sex with women is really important talking about like where the clitoris is the fact that a lot of nerve endings are in the first third of the vulva right or the vaginal canal that yeah cervical stimulation and stimulation of the fornix is pleasurable there are other ways to do that if your penis isn't that long they're just talking about like different sex positions they can use if you've got a shorter penis or if you're well even if you do you have a longer penis as well right like because oftentimes a lot of this education gets skewed towards guys who you know average or shorter but also guys that have long penises or you know larger penises are also have

difficulties having sex sometimes right because they might feel like they're going to hurt their partner or they might feel like they're being objectified for their larger penis right especially if there's a racial element to it as well so there's education needs to be done on both fronts but to like yeah speak to that question of like where it comes from i think there's a few different elements and you know i'm a big fan of representation i've got i've got books on my bookshelf that i use with clients that just have like hundreds of different types of penises in there from you know and and of older men as well men of different ethnicities and races bigger smaller circumcised uncircumcised i think it's just important for guys to be like oh that's what

a regular average person's penis looks like i do a workshop with guys and i get them to do a crafting activity with play-doh i bring play-doh in and i say to them like make a normal penis that's the only instruction that i give them and so i typically get one of the guys go oh i'm gonna need some more play-doh you know like you know joking about you know making it bigger but it prompts some really interesting discussions like do the guys make an erect penis or do they make a flaccid penis right like do they add the testicles or do they not add the testicles right do they make a penis that looks circumcised they make a penis that doesn't you know look circumcised they make a piece of the penis that's intact and so it has this like really playful way

of starting to kind of open up that conversation around penis size anxiety and we go well what is a normal penis and the answer is there is no real kind of answer to that question but we start to think well you know who of the guys made erect penises and typically it's about 50 50 in terms of the workshop of who makes who but there's a question in there which is if we're looking at percentage of time a penis is erect it's only maybe like two percent of your life that your penis is erect right compared to like 98% of the time your penis is flaccid so is a quote-unquote normal penis a flaccid penis right and similarly with like testicles and things like that like we you know we talk about whether we should include that in drawings and stuff like that so it's just

at least I found a really playful way of starting to get guys talking about that anxiety around penis size and starting to realize oh shit like I do have been carrying this anxiety a lot of guys like don't necessarily talk about especially with other guys so there's an opportunity there to like just unpack it and you know air some of those those insecurities they have and talking about it more often than not is like one of the best strategies for navigating that anxiety just like having the education piece around anatomy and then having the opportunity to be like oh wow i'm not the only guy that's like concerned about my size can be a big weight off their shoulders and then representation with all the penises is also really helpful so hopefully that answered your question

No, thank you. It just kind of, I feel like that normalizes that for them, right? Like you said, talking about it more, educating about it, all of that, not just, like you said, 98% of the time it's flaccid, right? I'm sure they didn't think of that. It's like, you know, oh, it's like, how big is it when it's hard? And yeah, you make so many good points because like nobody growing up, sex education in school was, I don't even remember. I mean, it was probably like five minutes and it was like, we had to sign a parent's permission slip so we could watch this, a penis and a vagina. And I think, I don't even know what it was after that. So yeah, just probably a slideshow of STIs or something like that. That's what I got anyway in my sex ed, it was like fear mongering and saying that very stereotypical scene from Mean Girls, right? With Coach K saying, don't have sex because you'll get pregnant and die.

like that was supposed to be a you know satirical skit on like american sex education but it ended up being like a very you know accurate summary of a lot of people's sex education unfortunately you're 100 right and something you mentioned before which i think is also relevant here is like the jokes and the shaming of like you know there's been a lot of really great initiatives around body positivity for women but i see that really lacking for men right and one of the major areas that it could definitely be improved is like around penis shaming and cock shaming right like yeah i know people don't like necessarily mean it when they say small dick energy or big dick energy but like that language and that rhetoric a lot of guys internalize it right and and you'll see small

penis jokes all throughout the media as well like once you start to pay attention to it you'll see it everywhere like that smaller is worse or bigger is better that small penises are a joke it's pretty pervasive once you start to like really tune into it i've got a whole edited highlight reel i suppose of like all different small penis jokes that i use in my workshops to really like make that point but so you know you trust me when i say that there are like i could make that real however many minutes long like it's long already and i can keep adding to it because there's so much out there and so i definitely think that's a part of it as well as like this this barrage of like small is is bad you know you're a joke if you've got a small penis like especially like

when that's tied into the larger you know approach to like the masculine aesthetics of like you need to be muscly and you need to be strong you need to be big right the same thing like goes for height as well as a lot of like short men jokes as well and so yeah so i think all of that combined definitely adds to like men's shame around like their their bodies especially their penises well again you make another relative point where yes we've had for women a lot of trying to normalize with bigger plus size models you know coming on the runway trying to make what's her name Whitney I think she's a model and she's got that white and black oh my god I'm totally ruining this but alopecia yes and so you know trying to make everything as beautiful

oh vitiligo vitiligo that's it that's it oh my gosh i couldn't think of it but you know we're trying to embrace everything is beautiful and i do love the fact that you you offer that to them because yeah where are they going to get that i mean yes they could google something or porn is like the worst thing right because everything and i think a lot of young men too this is their only experience with seeing a sexual act let alone another man's penis and so there's this hue and it's been happening since you know i was young and porn's like the first thing where do they learn about sex playboy magazine was also a thing but yeah so yeah i mean like playboy wasn't wasn't great but at least there were some educational articles in there

yes there was mainstream mainstream porn is like not like it's not education right it's entertainment and so something that i you know what i want to offer here is something that i do with my clients like say for example i've got a client who's overweight and when was the last time you saw an overweight man in mainstream porn never because they don't exist right like they're not cast in mainstream pornography so what i'll do is i'll go out of my way to try and find representations of men who are his size in you know independent porn or in you know typically it's called ethical or feminist porn right and it's much more diverse it's much more inclusive it's got a different array of bodies and shapes and sizes and sexualities and ethnicities and things like that

so i'll find porn of people that look like him so that he can watch it and be like holy shit this is the first time i've seen a person my size in their pleasure having great sex like being in this this sexual actor experience like i wow that's like that's a thing for me right like i often get especially guys who are overweight or who don't measure up to like that masculine ideal that they see in porn or they see perpetuated by the media they think that they're not worthy of sexual experiences or they're not worthy of like having a you know sex with a beautiful woman or just whatever it is that they're not worthy of pleasure they're not worthy of like having those those experiences it's because they've never seen it and so one of the things that i try and do is like

offer some representation for them same thing with like you know one of the reasons why i quite enjoy you know ethical porn or feminist porn or whatever you want to call it is because there's not a emphasis on larger penises right like the camera shots are slightly different so that they're like i said before there's a practical reason why mainstream porn there there are larger penises but like there's ways of filming great sex and people having consensual pleasurable sex that just doesn't involve sticking camera in the genitals right and so i'm not personally anti-porn i think there's like a really great role that porn can play in people's like education and you know fantasy life but the porn that a lot of people are accessing isn't that

right and so like that's my yeah like my my gray area i suppose is i don't think porn is good because i've seen some of the porn out there and it is not good but i also don't think all porn is bad because i've seen some porn out there that's really incredible that can be really educational and it's there's a lot of value in it for people you know wanting to explore their sexuality and wanting to explore their fantasies and wanting to find new inspiration and desires so that's why i try and use porn as a tool rather than like as a crap right right that's the important piece right there it's like i can easily be a crutch and then and then guys wonder why they're not performing or they can't get hard and then i'm sure that's got to be shaming them in some particular form

right it's interesting because i have a segment of the show that is just questions and answers and the guy it's interesting that he just commented he said he gets very anxious around oral sex and i said well you know he didn't say giving or receiving but meaning like it's not even uncomfortable and he doesn't even want to go there and I'm not sure how that came about like he didn't say anything but he was like well what do I do how do I get around this I'm sure it's got to be a much more in-depth conversation but it's interesting how society has taught women even how it's so messed up too that men should be like on point they should be ready to go like because all they do is have to look at us and and they're hard right but that's not always the case

yeah yeah i have spoken about this a few times on social media and every time i say that some men don't enjoy oral sex or they find it really anxious or anxiety inducing i get women going don't be don't lie all men like oral sex all men would like receiving blow jobs and and so just like that complete dismissing of you know particularly this man as well right who's who's sent in that that question to you yeah now that is a common phenomenon that i see for like men's sexual experiences is like either don't like don't make this a problem where it's not right like kind of like don't it's not like it's not serious and then the other side of the coin is like who fucking cares like i've been on like i've been on several podcasts where i've been the

first male guest to talk about like male sexual dysfunction and like men's experiences of anxiety and things like that and when i've seen that podcast be released and i've checked in with the comment section of the relevant social media platform there is some comments that are like why are you talking about male sexuality who fucking cares about men like they stop prioritizing men or stop put like stop putting them back in the limelight which i get you know i recognize that i'm you know male sexuality and discussions around men don't need to be welcome in every single space i say the same thing for you know i have men's groups where we don't talk about female sexuality right or we don't talk about you know women's issues let's say and so i i

recognize that the importance of that but like guys read those comments right and and like we'll see that type of rhetoric and and do internalize that and be like oh fuck there's not like maybe there is something wrong with me that i'm you know feeling anxious about this particular thing or maybe i am broken right maybe there is something that needs to be fixed in me and that is like a really strong narrative around like male sexuality and sexual dysfunction right is that like if you're not you know on point all the time if you don't have an erection straight away if you're not lasting this long if you're like well that performative approach that i spoke about earlier in the podcast like if you're not adhering to that then you're broken and you need to be fixed

and it's in our language as well right around dysfunction you're like a machine that's broken your dysfunction or you're malfunctioning right and the approach is very medicalized it's take this pill, right? Use this product. Here's the quick fix solution to this. And through no fault of their own, like urologists and GPs and stuff will prescribe medication. They're prescribing PDE5 inhibitors, which is Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, shit like that for guys that are struggling with erections. I think that's overdone. That's my bias here. I think they're over-medicalized and over-pathologized. But also we're starting to see urologists prescribe SSRIs, antidepressants for guys that are ejaculating quite quickly they prescribe low dose antidepressants because one

of the side effects of antidepressants is a decrease in libido a decrease in sensation of pleasure and so like they're decreasing sensitivity essentially for these guys and again that's like their first strategy is to like provide a quick fix solution to this problem i've seen guys that have like had success with these and i don't want to you know knock you know that if that's your journey but I've also worked with a lot of guys who I've coached to help them come off Viagra or Levitra or Cialis they've been using it every day for the last however many years and they're still not getting erections right they still don't have reliable erections and so what that tells me is like it's not a physical thing right if you're taking Cialis every day for 15 years and you're

still not getting erections or reliable erections then it tells me that like it's a psychological thing not a physical thing so yeah i don't know why i went on this big tangent no it's good it's all good but to kind of like land the plane i'll bring it home like you know the the rhetoric that we have around like male sexuality you know another message we have is like oh men talk about masturbation all the time men are so open about masturbation we need to talk more about women's masturbation we need to talk about women's pleasure and what i've said before right is i think there's a difference between gratification and pleasure yeah men talk about gratification a lot they talk about jerking off they talk about busting a nut but the conversations that men are

having around masturbation in my opinion are like very surface level and they're very self-deprecating as well right like a lot of guys aren't taking these conversations very seriously and yeah we talk about wanking and jerking off a lot but i don't hear men talking about like how much pleasure they experience or where they felt it in their body or how you know how much enjoyment they got from doing this particular thing with this particular person right there's no real conversations around that that's something i really try and encourage in my men's groups is to like talk more into the pleasure of your experiences and so i i hear like some women go oh we need to be talking more about women's sexuality the way men are talking about male sexuality and i'm like maybe

in terms of like the air time it's given but not in terms of the quality of the conversation right The way that guys are talking about their sex and their masturbation is not something to aspire to, right? So we need to be shifting the way that everyone talks about sex and pleasure, not trying to get women to talk about sex in the same way that men are talking about sex. Because I don't agree with the way men are talking about sex. We need to be shifting that to begin with. So that's like something else I've noticed.

And so there is this like weird, this weird kind of, I guess it's like phenomenon around male sexuality, which is that it's like, we shouldn't take it seriously. It's simple. it's straightforward we don't need to really care about it too much like the you know guys can just use their hands right that's another thing i talk a lot about sex toys for men and i get a lot of pushback from people in general but like the message is like why do guys need to use toys can't they just jerk off using their hands so like what men aren't allowed to explore their bodies or find pleasure in different ways they have to use their head like it's a weird thing

of like male sexuality isn't that important it's not like it's simple it's straightforward it's just focus on ejaculation it's just surface level like that is the messaging that a lot of guys are internalizing it's also the same messaging that a lot of women have about male sexuality right so like if anything starts to deviate from that women can either think to and i speak about women here because i work with heterosexual men like a lot of women from my experience go one of two ways they either go what's wrong with him he's broken like something's wrong that he's not getting an erection straight away um or he's not ejaculating right so some guys maybe struggle to ejaculate struggle to orgasm something's wrong with him or they go the other way of like something's wrong

with me i'm not attractive enough i'm not hot enough he doesn't find me sexy enough anymore i'm not doing it for him and so instead of having a conversation about it a lot of couples don't feel comfortable having those conversations there's this kind of blaming and shaming going on right and a lot of guys will be doing the same thing they'll be going i'm broken something's wrong with me i i don't know what's wrong i don't know why i can't you know get an erection or like Like I'm in my head, I'm anxious about it, whatever. Then he might also have a story of like, God, maybe I'm not attracted to my partner.

Maybe it is her. And then they might start to blame porn because that's what they hear from people is like, if you're watching so much porn, you're not going to find your partner attractive anymore, which I mean, I don't want to get off on a big tangent here, but that's not causation. That's not 100% true, but I digress.

So like there is this like, oh, something's wrong with me, something's wrong with my partner, rather than being like, let's approach it at the root cause. which is this performative lack of education that we have around sexuality in general, particularly around what men could be doing sexually. If you don't have an erection straight away, it doesn't mean that you're not turned on. There needs to be an education piece around non-concordance, which is this idea that you can be subjectively, mentally, emotionally turned on,

but not be physically aroused. Same thing, you can be physically aroused, you can have an erection, but not be turned on mentally, not be desiring to have sex. Morning Wood is a perfect example of this. a lot of guys wake up with an erection doesn't mean they're ready to have sex doesn't mean they're horny and similarly i'm sure there's been a lot of guys in a situation where they're like oh i really want to have sex with this beautiful person in front of me i really desire to have sex why the fuck don't i have an erection what's going on where's my erection both of those experiences

are examples of what we know as arousal and non-conformance which is this idea that you know physical and mental arousal are different and you just need to give yourself an opportunity to sync those two up usually it just takes a bit of time a couple of minutes of like focusing on touch focusing on pleasure right again pleasure is coming up like enjoyment's coming out like being in the moment being present having fun that's the solution to that not god i need to get in my head god i need to get an erection quickly god if i don't get an erection my partner's going to think that i don't find her attractive fuck if i don't get an erection then sex is not going to happen like it's going to be a failure like all that performative stuff yeah which like i said is

ruining kind of a lot of sexual experiences is it's easier said than done to get rid of those stories right like it's taken me 15 years i suppose to like really not be too concerned if i don't get an erection straight away and just like focus on the pleasure of the experience that i'm in so that you know eventually an erection does happen i can have you know penetrative sex in the way that i want but like yeah it took a while to get there right and then so that's the invitation i'm giving to to people that are listening to this i suppose is like those beliefs that you have about male sexuality like they're most often not they're probably wrong like i don't want to like you know paint a bad picture of people but i have a whole like workshop called man myths which

is like understanding male sexuality and i just talk about all these misconceptions we have of like male sexuality like men are always wanting to have sex or men will always say yes to sex or that if he's got an erection it means he's turned on or ejaculation and orgasm being the same thing all this other stuff like prostate stimulation makes you gay all of this stuff we cover on like male sexuality is like all these messages that we get and yeah they always need to be debunked that's that's kind of like what i try and do i think you need to go in the space of like high school or like college or something because i mean i did some bad shit so to like feed into that whole you know men should be on top of stuff and it I think back I'm like oh that wasn't that funny

and then I'm like oh that's probably not so funny now you know what thinking that because someone we were we had good sexual chemistry and we go to have sex and he's not hard and I'm young and I'm like okay bye like you know I mean but like I was in my early 20s and thinking that that's normal so I guess he's just not into me you know I mean that's terrible like I think back now I'm like oh my god I hope I score this guy but you know I'm laughing I'm not laughing at the experience itself because I feel terrible but I'm laughing because it's almost like when do you start educating when can you start educating I mean that needs to be younger it's like just because kids are having sex when they're teens because they've got these crazy hormones happening but they

understand nothing about anything pleasure sex anything so yeah yeah sex education is a whole another topic yeah i know i have a lot of opinions about i think it's woefully lacking at the moment i think the rhetoric around like sex education sexualizing our kids is completely wrong and i think that the i'm going to go on a big tangent i'll sum it up by saying that i think the rhetoric that is being used against sex educators, telling them they are groomers or pedophiles is fucked and completely at odds with what comprehensive sex education actually does. And I think that those labels have been weaponized against progressive sex educators. And I don't think it's going to be helpful in the future. I think we're going to see some real issues, but that's my

bias and opinion. I agree. It needs to, I mean, you know, it's one thing for you and I, or people like you to change the the stories right and educate and be able to communicate it's okay to communicate your feelings it's okay to have these pleasures it doesn't make you less of a man I mean I love your whole message because it's so needed and I appreciate it and I just want to say thank you and I'm sure everybody here listening is learning so much because I know I did today so and I appreciate you letting me rant so much thank you for yeah letting me go off on a few tangents there i i do tend to waffle so thank you for it's it's amazing i've learned so much one last question before i can tell everybody where to find your programs and you know if they

want to i know you have one called outperformer porn star but i'll let you talk about that what was one of your favorite dates and what was it oh maybe i'm biased because one of my favorite dates it was with the woman that i'm now married to but we had this really beautiful i love going to the I love walking, walking. I love markets. I love coffee. And I had this really lovely date with my now wife. One of our first dates was going to this really beautiful antique market. And there was like, it was like a craft coffee van there as well. And I remember it was down by the river in Western Australia. And yeah, it was just really, it was really like, what's the word I want to describe? Like the word that comes to mind is like, it was really subtle, you know, like it

wasn't an intense like let's go to the bar and like the agenda is like you know go home with each other it was just like a beautiful morning and i was like really curious just like getting to know this woman who i just met like a couple of days before it was just like an enjoyable walk and good conversation and i think i bought like a little cactus to take home to my apartment and you know we still have that which reminds me of that day and so it was just like this lovely gentle, get to know you, like pleasant day. I don't know how else to describe it. And I think that was like really enjoyable for me because I had come from, like I shared before, an approach to dating and sex and women, which was just like, how can I escalate this to sex as quickly as

possible? Right. And it was really very alcohol oriented for a long time. And so it felt much more grounded. It felt much more enjoyable for me, less anxious. And I, you know, have spoken with my partner about and I know that she really appreciated it because she didn't feel very anxious she felt really comfortable and I could kind of vibe that during the day as well because she was open and laughing and talking and we were like really having a really good time so that was something that I would credit as being one of my if not my favorite dates and like I said I think I'm a bit biased because I ended up marrying that woman that's amazing well thank you for sharing that I love to hear everybody's little

story about their date and it's usually about connection and usually about like you're just feeling the other person and just having a great time so thank you for that sharing that so where can everybody find you look you up take some courses maybe if there's anything you want to share please do yeah yeah so i've got a website which is cam-fraser.com that's f-r-a-s-e-r is how you spell my last name a lot of people in america tend to spell my last name wrong my my social media handle is also the cam fraser and i've got a course as you mentioned called outperform a porn star which is a bit of a tongue-in-cheek reference to like the way that i was speaking about porn before right a lot of men think that good sex is what they see on screen

and i kind of turn that around and say well if you were having you know really deeply intimate pleasurable multi-orgasmic mutually satisfying sex then you'd be outperforming any porn star that you see on screen and so it's a tongue-in-cheek reference to like that performative approach right performing and we really subvert that and focus more on pleasure right if you were having really pleasurable sex with yourself and with your partner, then you'd be having way better sex than any porn star is having on screen. So that's the six week course that I'm really proud of, like the content that's in there. And I think there's a lot of really valuable mindset shifting material in there for men. So everything that I've spoken about with regards to like that

philosophy of performance oriented, shifting to pleasure oriented, that's what that course is all about. So if you're interested in that, then yeah, check it out. Very cool. Well, thank you, Cam so much for taking the time and being here. And thanks for putting up with me. I love it. I can sit here all day. So yeah, I appreciate it. I hope you have a really wonderful day. And thanks again. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Come and hang out with me on Instagram at Celeste Moore image. Let me know your thoughts on today's episode because I always love hearing from you all. You can find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website, CelesteMoore.com. Okay, that's all for now. I'll see you in the next episode.

See you next time, friends.