Moore Style - Aligning with Your Unique Desires and Needs with Dr. Stephanie Sigler

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

On this week’s episode, we have the knowledgeable and award-winning sex therapist Dr. Stephanie Sigler of Evolve Your Intimacy! In this insightful conversation, we dive deep into a wide range of topics such as: exploring alternative style relationships, religious guilt and its limitations on sexuality, and when to teach children about consent and boundaries. Keep an open mind throughout this episode and I can guarantee you will walk away with some golden nuggets of wisdom that you can bring into your life and relationships. Tune in and then let me know what you think of this episode over on Instagram. In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:12] About Dr. Stephanie Sigler [03:27] Dr. Sigler's journey of becoming a sex therapist [08:45] Alternative style relationships [12:23] Religious guilt and sexuality  [15:33] What is a successful relationship? [17:38] Mental health and therapy  [23:37] About Dr. Sigler’s book “Anti-Fight Journal: Fighting Fair in Relationships” [32:12] Dr. Sigler’s approach as a therapist [33:58] Sex education in the United States [35:58] Teaching children about consent and boundaries [44:17] Defining what sex means to you in an alternative relationship [49:59] Talking about sex and exploring what you like [54:38] Dr. Sigler's favorite date   Connect with Dr. Stephanie Sigler: Website Instagram Twitter Facebook

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena. So let's get into today's episode.

I want to welcome everybody to another episode of the Down and Dirty podcast. And as always, I'm your host, Celeste Moore. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking to Dr. Stephanie Sigler. Is that how you say it right? I want to make sure. Okay, wonderful. Her business is called Evolve Your Intimacy. And Dr. Stephanie has a deep passion for assisting individuals and uncovering the true potential of their relationships. So imagine the freedom of redesigning or designing your relationship in a way that aligns with your unique desires and needs, free from the constraints of societal norms or childhood teachings. So she offers transformative tools and expert guidance

necessary to build and nurture your ideal partner. And I really wanted to, before I get you on, also, she is the winner of 2022 and 2023 ASN Magazine Awards for the Best Educator and the Best Educator website. That's so cool. Yeah, that was pretty cool. I was shocked. I saw you with three awards. Was that this? That was this. So this year, I won Educator of the Year, Educator Website of the Year, and then Social Media Influencer of the Year. That's so cool. That was a shock to me. I was like, oh, wow. Because I put all of this stuff out there, but sometimes you don't know. You don't know if people are watching or listening or taking notes or even liking it. And so to win that, that was pretty awesome. I know you were so happy. I was

like I love that photo of you you were just like loved your red dress and you're just like oh my god it's like it was like the Grammys or the Emmys and I just it was for me biggest thing I've ever done and I loved every second of it I mean that just has got to keep you or like you know why I'm reaching people out there and it probably feels so good it does I am a firm believer that everybody needs to have better relationships, better sex, all of that. And even if my message comes across just in the littlest ways, if you get some nugget of knowledge in everything that I do, that makes me happy. Yeah. I mean, I feel the same way. I mean, this is kind of why I started this, but it was, I didn't realize how fast it actually would grow in the sense that people

were really, yeah, I want to learn more. I want to hear what other people have to say. So again, thank you for being on the show. So let me just ask you, could you tell me a little bit about yourself a little bit more and how you decided to get into this field of being a sex therapist? Yeah, definitely. So sex therapy was not on my radar until recently, or I shouldn't say recently, until about four years ago. I have always, I've been a therapist. I was a public education teacher. I've taught K through 12. And I was connecting with those kids and they were always coming to me and talking to me, everybody would always come and talk to me and ask me for advice. And one day someone said, why don't you just go to school and get paid for this? And I was like,

that's a great idea. So I went back to school and I got my master's in clinical mental health counseling and opened up my private practice. I have a private practice in Texas and then I have the Evolve Your Intimacy private practice where I can see clients everywhere. That's my coaching platform. Okay. So it kind of opens up for me to be able to see people all over. I am licensed in texas arizona and florida if you're outside of those states then that's where the coaching platform comes in because i can coach i just can't counsel or therapeutize in those the sex therapy i've always been different i've always been very open i've always been being from the south i knew that i wasn't like what i was supposed to be i was i was bisexual i loved everything

i loved what i love people and so being from the south we're told that you know you're a woman You're supposed to only be with a man, that type of mentality. And I was taught that. Well, I didn't like that. So when I got the opportunity to expand myself and realize to explore what I really liked, I started designing my relationships the way I wanted to. And that's where the sex therapy came in because I started seeing clients. I'm a couples therapist and I love couples.

And I started seeing clients who were in alternative style relationships. And they told me that, you know, we're so thankful that you're open to what we do in our lifestyle because other counselors have said, oh, you know, it's the lifestyle that you're leading that's causing all of these problems. And that's not the root of the problem. The problem was they couldn't communicate or they're having, you know, financial communication issues. And the therapist wouldn't see them because they didn't want to work with anybody in an alternative relationship, meaning swingers, poly, all of that fun stuff. And so all of these clients were getting turned away. And that broke my heart because everybody deserves counseling. and that's where the sex therapy came in.

I was like, well, you know what? I think I'm going to go get licensed in this. I'm going to go get certified in alternative relationships, and I started that track, and I got going, and then I decided, well, why don't I just get a doctorate in clinical sexology? And so, lo and behold, four years later, here we are with a doctorate in clinical sexology,

and now I get to travel all over the world, and I teach great seminars to people who want to learn more about their own sexuality, how to please their partners, how to work better with their partners, meaning like the group of people that they live with, play with, associate with, because the relationships can look any way and it doesn't have to be any one way. And that was my big message is you can have a relationship look any way that fits your needs. It doesn't have to be what society tells you it has to be.

Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I love that you took something that you saw was missing. right like who turns down somebody because they're not hetero or or just gay I mean there's so many facets like you said of relationships and the type of relationships and I think I've heard this old adage too multiple times oh it's because you're in a throuple it's because the dynamic is messing the whole thing up or or whatever and so I'm glad you're able to to educate people and, and kind of show them that's not the issue. It's probably lack of communication like any other relationship, right? Yeah, absolutely. And we're not taught how to be in relationships growing up. There's no handbook. We weren't taught that in school. We were taught

to, we were taught by example. And so think about who your examples are. Was your example something that you want to be. If it's not, then why are you following that? I try to normalize alternative relationship as much as possible, but I also give people the permission to live life their way. Sometimes all you need is someone to say, you have permission to do whatever you want to do. Who pays your bills? Who takes care of your children? Okay, well, if that's not directly inputting or influencing your life, they don't have any say. And so having that permission to look at yourself and say, you know what, I can do this. It's really, I feel like it's liberating to many people.

Yeah. I mean, you make a really good point that just having someone acknowledge that it's okay, you can have the type of life that you want and you desire. I think that's huge. Just having that statement, that acknowledgement. So what age, I'm just curious as far as what age were you when you realized you said you were different, right? Quotations different of that, what society wanted for you.

I realized that in middle school, I realized that I really liked girls and boys in middle school, but I couldn't tell anybody. I was raised in a very small Southern town and that was just not accepted. So as I got a little older and I would hide it, I did have a girlfriend at one point, that my family found out about. And it was just a big debacle. And it wasn't, it wasn't worth, unfortunately, the hassle of me getting kicked out of my house and just all of this stuff that was going to happen. It was pretty bad. And so she and I ended up breaking up, which she's still a dear friend of mine to this day. But I knew that I didn't want just men. And it didn't matter

how hard I tried. I've been married previously, unfortunately, several times. Well, you know, you live and learn I live and you learn right and throughout those marriages I was never really satisfied and so when my last relationship I was in I was allowed to be bisexual I was allowed to have alternative relationships if I wanted them and we got to define what we really wanted and so that was that was liberating for me yeah I can imagine that's how do you enter any type of new relationships right for all these people out there who are trying to figure out their life and date people like i don't think it's very cookie cutter you know like say the dating apps have okay are you i think they offer a straight bi or gay but there's such a plethora of like

like you said different styles of of what's what you're looking for so do you solely have to go on alternative lifestyle like if you are in that it just it I don't know it just seems like it's a really difficult way to date online with just putting bi or straight or hetero you know yeah it really is but there are some really good websites out there or some apps I should say that that have that are designed for this type of dating and so you know if you're interested in that look for those apps they're out there and if you're on that app everybody on that app is looking for the same thing. They're looking for an alternative style relationship. They not might not be looking for you, but they're looking for the same style. And so there's something in this

world for everybody. The lifestyle is for everybody, but it's not for everybody. So if you are not comfortable with sharing or not comfortable with that open mindset of, you know, we can have multiple partners, that's okay too. That is fine. Just don't knock the people who are. Yes, agreed. Please, no judgments, people like let people live their life and be happy. Like, I don't understand. And I know that I understand because I've lived in Texas for two years. Right. And for the majority of my life, I've lived in Democratic states, very liberal type of thinking. And I've always had a liberal mindset when I was really young. and I just didn't like the very narrow-minded individual no matter what it was I didn't I still to this day that's one of my biggest biggest issues or pet peeves if you will is looking through one lens because that is not life and I feel like the more open we are to at least listening or experiencing other ideals. And I just, I don't know, I just have a really big

issue with that. When your clients come to you, I know there's all reasons and sorts of why they would want to come see you. But do you feel that some of that is really ingrained into their issues is like, okay, I grew up religious, or this is how society should see me. That religious guilt is debilitating. I have struggled with my own religious guilt because I was taught, you know, this is not what the Lord wants. The Bible says this, and it's so ingrained, especially in the Southern states. And I'm sure it's everywhere because that Catholic guilt, let me tell you, that Catholic guilt will get you in a heartbeat, and you don't have to be Southern to have that. I work with a lot of people who have that Catholic guilt, and that one, I think Catholic

guilt is even worse and more debilitating than Southern religion guilt. And that's just my personal opinion based off of the people that I work with and my personal experiences. But man, that Catholic guilt, it's hard. And it's so ingrained in us from the beginning, from the very second we're born. Our genders are assigned, of course, but they're also established through pink blue you know and you start girls play with dolls boys play with cars and you know we're so defined and that's how we're seen in the world well I understand that you know what I I play I play with cars I had a lot of brothers so I really didn't play much with dolls if my dolls they had the hair cut off or the head pulled off because I've my brothers were mean but you know there's

always that definition of what we're supposed to be says who and why you know everybody has their own their own yums never yuck anybody's yum as long as it is consensual and it's safe if it's consensual and safe then what does it matter if no one else is being hurt if no one else is affected except the people the players in that in that scene or the players in that group why else would it matter. And it's, I get it. I get it. You know, we're supposed to be looking out for the greater good of the world. But you know what? It's 2023. It's shocking when no one bats an eye anymore. When like, oh yeah, we have aliens. Great. Can we talk to them? Maybe they can take over this world and it'd be a little bit of a better place. You know, no one bats an eye at the extreme anymore

because we've all lived through it. We've lived through some crap. So why not be happy and make ourselves happy. It's mind-boggling to me, the people who will put themselves in a bubble and not live their life the way they want to live it because someone says they can't. Man, that was so powerful because it hits home to so many people that I have known throughout the years and people that I've coached and even friends and some family members. I'm like, you live this one life, like explore that, live that, be happy. It's it just because of someone one day told them that it wasn't OK. Yeah. And think about it from this perspective as well. What's a successful relationship? A successful relationship by

societal standards is when one person dies. So a widow, if you know, if if you've had a successful relationship, you've been married 15, 20 years and one person dies that you're a widower or, you know, that's the acceptance of a successful relationship. So when we get divorced or we separate or we break up, oh, your relationship wasn't successful. Well, it was very successful. We just aren't compatible anymore. And that's okay. That stigma over breaking up and divorcing is debilitating in itself, but also realizing that a relationship can run its course. You can learn and you can grow from the person, but you don't have to be there forever. And so when I got divorced this last time, people were like, oh, you're a marriage therapist. You're supposed to

be able to, to work this out. And I get that all the time. And I'm like, well, you know, just because I'm a marriage counselor, I can use all the techniques, but it takes two. And I'm not responsible for them. I'm responsible for me and my feelings and my behavior. And so just because we're divorced, it doesn't mean that our relationship wasn't successful. It means we had a rough patch. It means we had stuff we couldn't work through and it means that we decided to go other ways. So breaking that mold of what a successful relationship is, I feel like is liberating and powerful within itself too. Yes. Well, I mean, you said some really important things in there as well as like, you know, you grow and learn, right? It's never a failure. It's

never unsuccessful because you're taking those things that you realize that do not work for this relationship that you want maybe in this other relationship. And so that was very successful because you realize that you no longer want this toxicity or whatever it looked like for you in your life. So yeah, I don't, there's just, it's so twisted in that. So I'm so happy that you're able to yeah nobody's perfect right I mean we all need coaching we all need counseling we all need some help in our lives and just because we're in that field doesn't make exactly be like we're the perfect people in this world so yeah people ask me they're like well do you see a counselor actually I do I see two I have a professional and a personal one so I get lots of counseling and then most of

my friends I shouldn't say most a lot of my friends are counselors as well so we do what's called a wine and wine we get on zoom drink wine and wine about things and talk to each other and that's our it's our wine and wine so we have those about once a month to where we're all just kind of saying can you believe and we dump on each other and then just leave it in the zoom meeting and go about our business that's healthy yeah to be able to have that safe space too no judgment space just let it loose yeah yeah and and everybody expects and that's another thing I find with with couples, with humans, with everybody in general, is the expectations placed upon us that we're all expected to be okay at all times. You know, oh, if you're having a down day, oh my

gosh, you know, did you take your medicine or did you do this or did you do that? Just because I take medicine and medication doesn't mean that I'm going to be happy all the time. I can have a down day. I can have a day where I just don't feel good or I'm just not in it. And that's okay too. but there's that stigma around oh if you're not perfect at all times you know there's something wrong you're not living up to your truest potential that just is mind-boggling to me as well yeah we can have an off day we can all have a day to wear or a week or a month and that's okay yeah I think I'm hopefully coming out of one of those spells you know it's like these growing phases that we experience right whether it's through parenting a loss of a relationship a

beginning of a relationship there's these moments of growth and so I feel like it come it can come in months period it can come in a year but I feel that once you get through that there's a little bit of like hope at the end there's a little light and so you can feel a little lighter and it's okay to be in the thick of it like you said and I think the most important is like being able to continue to, to walk through those issues. And however that is for you, like you said, having therapy, having groups, having your friends and, and be able to, um, it's, you know, release some of that. So we're going to, it's the world we live in. It's comical at times. I don't even watch the news anymore because I just get, I'm an empath and it just, it brings me down.

I have a hard time even watching the stories on Facebook because I'm just like, man, why can't we, where's the good stuff in the world? There has to be good stuff out here. But, you know, we're all about the, we're ambulance chasers. We like, when we drop past a wreck, we like to watch because it's interesting. We want to know what happened. But we don't really care to know how people are doing when they're doing well. We only want to know when they're doing bad.

So tell me the good stuff. You know, we don't ever talk about, oh, what's going good in your life? We want to know the juicy dirt because we're kind of messy people. Yeah. I really enjoy those moments of beautiful stories, the really good stuff, the juicy stuff, you know, because that helps me get through those tough times. OK, you know what? Life is really beautiful.

Life can be so amazing. It's just your perspective sometimes, right? It's the just looking at things differently, turning away from this negativity that is constantly, like you said, in our messy, ugly world. So taking those like juicy bits or those moments of human connection is the most beautiful thing that that I think we can as you know, as humans experience. So one thing I am so thankful and this is going to sound weird, but hear me out. I'm thankful for the pandemic for is the pandemic helped normalize mental health counseling. It helped normalize. We're all everybody needs it. Everybody deserves it.

but because of all of us being stuck in one place, going crazy, because I was going crazy too, realizing that, man, I just want someone to talk to. And so the insurance companies started, you know, paying for, paying counselors for telehealth. That was, you know, really impactful. We were able to get out to different people all over the world or all over our state

that couldn't really come to therapy before. Now they have access to us in their home, on their phone. And that opening up of the mindset of, And therapy's not bad. You're not crazy. I mean, if I was having heart palpitations, I would go to a heart doctor, right? I mean, just because thoughts aren't concrete, people think that that's, you know, there's nothing that can be fixed or healed. Our thoughts are our person. It's all about us. So, yeah, the pandemic did help normalize mental health counseling and get it, help bring it to the areas that probably didn't have it before. I totally agree. And I do feel like everybody felt that they absolutely also needed it, where it was hard to find therapists as well. So that was a challenge, especially for my daughter's age going through this. these children I think it was more prominent because they're like oh my god I'm home I I can't so I can't hang out with my friends it's just this these ages that experienced that even I think a little bit more double fold was it was great for that that you could actually just you know dial

in on the computer and meet up with someone where normally therapy is like one-on-one in person So yeah, I can see how that was a blessing. I feel like there's always a silver lining for something. We didn't always see it at the moment, but. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. So tell me about your book that you just published. So this one is called The Anti-Fight Journal, Learning How to Fight Fair.

So I have lots of couples who come to me and they usually it's no one fights fair. That's not something we were taught in school. that's not something we were ever, oh, sorry, we were ever skilled in doing. So what I did is I had this technique where I would have the couples, they would have what was called a fight night, a designated fight night. Most arguments happen because something little irritates you, right? And it builds up and builds up. And then the most crazy thing, you leave some socks on the floor or something happens and then there's this explosion. And it's not about the socks, it's everything else, but the socks caused the explosion.

And then we have breakdown in communication and we have just everything the whole day is ruined, if not the week. And so what I was having my couples do and what this book is, it's a journal. And so all throughout the week, if you have little things that irritate you or things that you need to talk to your partner about,

but it's not worth ruining the day over, you write it in the book. And this is a living document. It's where both of you can have access to it and you just write it down. But there's also another part of the journal that where you can write the good things that's happening to them as well.

Like what you did today that I really enjoyed. Thank you for doing this. So we're saying, you know what? This wasn't the best, but this was really good. Thank you. And it's that, yeah, we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about that fight. But also when we're writing negative things,

we can see the positive that our partners have enjoyed about us as well. So on your designated fight night, you sit down and you're going to pick a topic. What one of the topics out of the book that you feel like really needs to be discussed. sidebar, what I have found is when we put our topics, our irritants, I'm going to call them irritants, down in the book and we forget about them until fight night. Usually when fight night

comes around, you're going to see that and you'll be like, oh, that wasn't even, oh, forget that one. I didn't mean, you know, that irritated, that's just nothing. I was having a bad day. So even though previously it would have caused this huge fight, now we're looking at it when we have a more rational level head and we're like, oh, well, that's not even nothing. So just forget about that one. And it reduces the amount of outbursts. It reduces the amount of fights. And the fight night, quote unquote, is where you sit down and you have a conversation and you take whatever discussion point that you decide to talk about with your partner and you write it in an iMessage and the book teaches you how to do that. When you do this, it makes me feel this way because

I would prefer this. And then we have a conversation about it. We ask some clarifying questions. The best part of the book is after you have your fight night, there is a place in here. It's the reflection questions. And it asks, you know, did we accomplish the goal? Before you sit down, you and your partner are going to establish a goal. We're going to give each other. This is what we're trying to trying to figure out. This is what we're going to talk about. Now, if we get on subtopics, there's also a place to write topics that we need to talk about later, because how many times have you started talking about one thing and then ended up on a whole other subject and you're like, what are we even talking about this for?

We're sitting down for this goal and now we're talking about the weather. Like what? Get on task. And so there's a place to put that. We have to get it out of our head because if we don't get it out of our head, it's gonna build and it's gonna grow

and it's gonna get worse. And then all of a sudden it's catastrophized and it wasn't supposed to be catastrophized in the beginning. So that element there as well. The reflection piece provides you an opportunity to reflect when you go back. So let's say that you and I are together and we have an argument over something that we've

argued about in the past. And you're like, no, remember, we decided that we were going to follow these steps. We decided this is how we were going to handle it. Have that change. Do we need to renegotiate that? We can always reflect back in the book. I have ADHD. I forget.

So if I have this book to reflect back on, I can say, oh, yeah, we said we were going to do that. And that, again, reduces our arguments and reduces the ability or our, I shouldn't say ability, but it reduces our... tendency to fight about things we've already talked about. And so it's just a really good journal that can live anywhere in the house, preferably, you know, somewhere where your kids aren't going to pick it up and read it, but it's, it's going to teach you how to fight fair. And it teaches you to listen. We're going to do active listening. We're going to do a lot of reflective

questionings, clarifying questions. All of that is worked into your fight night. that's amazing I love that that is like the communication tool that is that's so cool and did you think of this as you were just having the same kind of issues arise over and over again I did I did and I I started and it's been refined and refined and refined and then so finally someone was like why don't you just write a book about it and I was like that's a great idea because before I would have couples get like a spiral notebook and then they would have it written down and we'd have, have them draw out little sections, but then they wouldn't stick to it because they get busy and they forget. So what I found is when I printed out the worksheets

and I gave them the worksheets, they were able to keep up with it a lot better, but it's, it's expensive to print out 30 worksheets for people, right? And they're not going to print them out themselves. So what happens is in the book, you have 30 fights, fights, quote unquote, scheduled fight nights which I call them fight nights because after every good fight you have to have makeup sex and that's just the best so even if you're really not fighting you know scheduled that night you probably are going to have some really great sex and so the whole goal is after you've practiced this for about 30 times that you don't need this anymore it just becomes natural and so when something happens you can say you ask yourself first is this worth is this big

enough for me to bring it up now? Can it wait later? And if it is big enough, you say it in an iMessage. Hey, honey, when you just put that fork in the sink after I did the dishes, it made me feel really disrespected because I worked hard on cleaning that kitchen. Moving forward, can you just at least put it in the dishwasher for me? That would help. What did I do? I told them what their behavior did, how it made me feel, why it made me feel that way, and what I want to see differently. Nine times out of 10, the partner's going to be like, oh, I didn't even, I'm so sorry. I didn't even realize I did that and just put it back in the dishwasher and you're gone about your day. Where before it would have caused probably a meltdown because now it's not about that fork.

It's about what you did three weeks ago or three years ago. And it's just a big blow up. So it's just kind of reducing and giving people the outlets to fight fair. Right. Versus something that I've experienced or even done, like, why can't you do that? Like, instead of just saying it's almost like diminishing the person, right. Or making them feel little when you say something like that the way that you broke it down was perfectly understandable and they should feel like okay I understand now how why she did that what how that made her feel and what can I do different right I'm sure I missed the stuff in there but perfect yeah right okay great but that's even helpful like you said for any relationship that's amazing I am going to be writing a parent's

version for kids and that one's going to be coming out pretty quickly. And then there was, there's just other, I'm just going to do different variations that I think that because I have a teenager and we use the iMessages when we talk, it's just something we've always done. And we have feeling chart, you know, I make her tell me what she's feeling and it's not just, oh, I'm mad or I'm sad. Okay. Well, let's look at the feeling chart and tell me exactly, because if you're mad, being disappointed and mad or mad and like frustrated are two different things so what are you disappointed about or what are you frustrated about and getting to the heart of what that emotion really is and it teaches emotional regulation for people as well

oh that's amazing well when it launches or you release let me know yeah it's for the teens yeah oh not the teens no no sorry okay or i mean for the parents but for the same yeah okay well everybody the adult relationship one is out so yes and where can you get this on your website or you can get it on my website you can get it on amazon if you order through the website they're autographed copies if you you can order through amazon um which either i mean and it's well who doesn't want to autograph i know right it'll come straight to you i love that so i wanted to ask just a couple more questions that has to do with a little bit about what you do a little bit more about, you know, I wanted to know what your philosophy is when it comes to educating

your clients about like sex and their desires. I mean, do you have a philosophy or multiple philosophies? I, oh, I have a lot of them. I'm what you call an eclectic therapist. I use a little bit of everything. I guess it would be more of the Carl Rogers, like meet the client where they're at type thing. Okay. When we meet them where they're at, they're going to have different things, different elements that they're going to need that I can pull from. And so I always tell my clients, I want you to imagine, you know, those huge big Mac red toolboxes that you see sometimes your dad might've had one, or, you know, if you have a husband who works and they have those huge big red toolboxes. I tell my clients, imagine I have that. It's right

behind me. And so as we're talking, I might pull something out. And of course it's just my brain, but something will come. It's my ADHD brain. It is amazing. It's a superpower. I can pull something out and be like, oh, well, let's try this activity. And if I feel like if I prescribed to one theory, I wouldn't be able to pull from all the other ones because then people would see me like, oh, well, I thought you were this type of, you know, therapist. Well, I'm every type of therapist. I'm what the client needs. If you need to be some cognitive behavioral therapy, we got that. And, you know, there's so many different things that we can pull from and activities that we can do, but it's what you need and how you need it. And you may need something different

every session and you have to be able to adapt and overcome whatever the client needs. I like that because, yeah, you're right. Everybody needs something different and a different style. So I know that you don't probably talk about this much, but being the fact that you were in early education or K through 12, when do you think it's appropriate or there's just this lack of sex education. And I'm going back because you said something earlier to how we're not taught how to be in a relationship, right? But we're also not taught properly about sex education, about what does that mean? I don't know what today they're doing, but I still feel like it's probably what I learned in grade school, fifth grade. Probably using the same textbook. Yeah,

exactly. This is a penis, this is a vagina, and don't get pregnant. You know, I mean, It was probably 20 minutes, too. Have you thought about addressing that issue or working with the education system? Or is that a whole nother complete beast? That is a complete beast. Every state is different. And I'm probably going to get this wrong because I have a really good friend who is she's the expert in this. But I'm pretty sure there's only 13 states in the United States that have to teach accurate sexual data health. So anybody else, like Texas teaches abstinence. You have to teach abstinence. Yeah. You can't teach them anything other than don't have sex.

You can scare them with some things, but it's an abstinence-based state. And so with only about 13 states having to teach accurate data. what else is everybody else teaching? I mean, they just teach what they want to teach. It's up to the instructor. It's up to the school district. So they're not getting, they're getting told gay is bad. Heterosexual is good. You know, this is bad. This is good. Like in Texas, you save yourself for marriage, save yourself for marriage. So as soon as I get married and I say, I do, I'm just supposed to know what to do. Like it just comes to you like, bam, supposed to know how to have sex. It's not logical. And I have some really great friends

who are sex educators as well, who are tackling the school systems. So they are, they're, they're putting some things into place to help with that sex education. But back to what you were about to ask, I'm hoping you were about to ask this, like, what's the good age to start talking to your kids about sex? And my answer to that is all the time from the very beginning. And I'm not talking about, oh, we should tell them what a penis and a vagina does and how it, you know, it works when they're too. No, but you should be using age appropriate terms and you should be using age appropriate statements that show them that, okay, so this is a vagina, right? This is your vagina. You know, if anybody touches that, we need to tell mommy. These people can touch it. You know, the doctors,

you know, whoever, but if anybody else does, that's your personal space. No one gets to touch that. And, you know, teaching them that it's okay to talk about it. You know, so many times people are like, oh, that's my private. I can't. It's private. Well, no. I mean, yes, it's your private area for you to touch and for your parents, you know, if you're younger, to clean or whatnot. But it's not so private that we don't talk about it. And I think that, you know, as they grow, we have to give them more and more knowledge. Anecdotally, kids today are having sex later in life. I guess just from my generation, I'm an Xenial, stuck right in the middle of Gen X and millennials, just right there. And, you know, my age group, we were having sex pretty early,

but we didn't have the education. We were lucky if we can even find a condom. I mean, it was just so sporadic. Now these kids are having sex later because they are educated. They are learning more about it and they're learning the safety of it, where to get condoms, even just how to use lube. You know, there are a lot of kids who are learning how to masturbate. I cannot tell you. I can't. Well, I have. Tell me. Oh, I know. I know. It's so sad. I've had parents tell me that they walked in on their kids masturbating or touching themselves and they just flipped out and shamed them. You don't ever do that. That's bad. And I'm appalled. I'm like, what? Like, that's a natural thing. Think about a baby. What do they do? They touch everything, put their hand

their mouth, their foot in their mouth. They discover their body parts. They're going to touch it. When they touch it, it feels good. That's not a bad thing. Now, do we want them touching it in public? Do we want them touching it at school? No. That's where we teach boundaries. We're going to do that. We're going to do that in our own privacy of our room. We're not going to do that in public at the grocery store. And we start teaching those boundaries, but we don't shame them. Because shaming them is what really brings that negative stigma and that negative ideation towards sex and makes it bad. So proper education should start from the very beginning, but it should be age appropriate. And there are lots of resources that you can get on age appropriate

talks with your children for sex. What is age appropriate? What works best for them? But also, you know your kid. And if they have questions, answer them. But answer them appropriately and you know right right yeah yeah I know I went off I was on the education part of of what you do and I just kind of wanted your thoughts on that because it really I talked to somebody else just really and he just he was like oh I can't I can't like get into that because it's just a sore you know because I feel that if we were properly educated in you know I guess proper is like relative like you said Texas talks about abstinence which is just mind-boggling but you know not the shame not the guilt right so that people that they go into hiding or they're sneaky or this is bad

and it's like no having these talks with your children or whatever whenever it is I mean that that's going to solve a lot of the problems that we have as adults so I just kind of think like okay, if we started earlier and talked about these things. And teaching consent. Teach consent from the very beginning. Forcing children to hug people, you know, like, oh, well, you need to hug Uncle Jerry. Well, Uncle Jerry makes me feel creepy, so I don't want to hug him. Oh, but you have to hug him anyway because he's your uncle. Yeah. Giving children that ability to say no. And they're not being rude. They just don't feel comfortable. But when we force our kids to do things, we're teaching them that their consent doesn't matter. And we're teaching them that

their voice doesn't matter because the authority says you have to hug uncle jerry who makes you feel weird right and it could just be that his breast stinks we don't know but you know something or it could be that he's a pedophile we don't know but something that that child doesn't want to they shouldn't have to and being able to teach that we don't touch others unless we are given permission even if it's you know a handshake a hug asking can i give you a hug you know that type of thing and not just taking it. Teaching the children, and we start that, or you can start that in preschool because they're going to start being around other children. And we have to ask permission to do this. We have to ask permission to, you know, touch our friend on the arm or

whatnot. And also removing the narrative of, oh, if a boy likes you, he's flirting with you. If a boy walks by and smacks your butt, he's flirting with you. Acting like that's okay. That's not okay. that's that's teaching our young males that they can just take control and do what they want to young females or other people in just general it doesn't have to be a gender-based thing it's just anything I can just walk up to you and take what I want from you because I'm just flirting no that's not okay you know you have to ask for consent and learning what that consent looks like and I feel like teaching that from the very young age are very from the beginning when they're old enough to talk and old enough to say you know yes no I don't want this or I don't want that

and not forcing them into something and teaching them that because the authority says so you have to do it right that's valuable that's huge yeah that's really important wow i didn't think you know we don't think of those things because we're like oh yeah just like you said uncle jerry yeah it's and they could be and i mean i'm guilty of it too at first when my daughter was you know a little bit younger i'd say oh you know go give them a hug and she didn't want to now go give them a hug. He's your uncle. And then one day I just started thinking, but why? Why does she have to? She doesn't have to if she doesn't want to. And still to this day, we carry that over. She'll give you, she doesn't, my daughter doesn't like, she's not a big touchy person, but she'll give

you a knuckle, like knucks, we call them knuckles, or, you know, she'll give you, she'll shake your hand, but every now and then she'll give you a hug, but it's very rare and far between because she's, she's got ownership of her body and she knows that she doesn't have to if she doesn't want to yeah that's wonderful I'm glad that you are were able to teach her that because that's huge so yeah it sucks for me because sometimes I want to hug and she's like no I'm not feeling it and I'm like come on please come snuggle she's like I don't want to snuggle so I know it's the baby years versus the teen years oh yeah I miss the baby years no one tells you about that no one tells you that they're gonna grow up and you have to grieve the baby years but oh man I've gone

through a few grieving processes for sure yeah that's a whole nother thing wow learning how to love your child get older and well grow up and yeah you lose the child it's just it's just a weird like you said it's a grieving process it's that's not yeah nobody says that they're like that was not in my in my how to be a good mom handbook no same here I just love that you teach alternative lifestyle or sorry you don't teach that you embrace it you therapize you like counsel on that and I don't know how many do that and I think it's just so important like you said because everybody deserves to be treated fairly everybody deserves therapy there's such a wide variety for me I'm like I still am learning and I love that I always want to learn but I you know originally

when I thought alternative this was years back and I was like oh that's only like BDSM or it's kink or something or maybe someone that's interested in the threesome but it's so much bigger it is it is it's anything that's not heterosexual monogamous so and even I and even now that we're normalizing gay and lesbian relationships I'm gonna say a monogamous because it can be two people together, regardless of their gender, and with no one else, right? Previously, I would say that, you know, gay and lesbian were alternative, but let's normalize that. They're humans. We're not going to put them in a box. And so if they're monogamous, they're monogamous. However, if they're non-monogamous, and I mean ethically non-monogamous,

and there's a difference, you can be non-monogamous, but you're not doing it ethically. and meaning you can be cheating and you can be having affairs behind your partner's back and it's not ethical but you are not non-monogamous or excuse me you are not monogamous you are non-monogamous so ethically non-monogamous means that everybody's on board everybody knows what's going on everybody's consenting and it's being done in a way where everybody's being feelings are protected everybody's emotionally safe and we're not intentionally hurting anybody if you're non-monogamous and not ethical you are hurting people so just to kind of clarify that but yeah it is that lifestyle can be it can be kink it can be bdsm it can be swingers it can be

polyamorous it can be asexual whatever anything it can look any way you want to look and also defining sex like how do you define sex is sex to you just penetration so if you are a lot you know we just messed around, quote unquote, we didn't have sex, but it was sex. It was a sexual experience. So you have to really define what sex means to you. Sex is not just penis and vagina penetration or penis and anus. That's not sex. Sex is all of it. It's the foreplay. It's the touching. It's, it's everything. And so defining what that means to you also helps define what you're into when it comes to finding, you know, your kink or your fetish or what you like sexually just in general with your partner. Monogamous couples, I highly encourage you guys to explore

not with other couples, but with each other. Get some toys out. Learn how to please your partner. I have so many monogamous couples that come to the workshops in non-monogamous settings, like on cruises that I do, swinger cruises. And there's so many monogamous couples there Because they want to learn how to add things to their relationship, but they don't want to have other people. And that's perfect, too. Interesting. That's really cool. So maybe they're into watching, like, you know, the voyeurism or being watched.

Yeah. Maybe they like to be an expeditionist and they want people to watch them, but they don't want anybody else to join. Perfect. There's something in that for everybody. You just have to find what you like and know yourself. do some really deep diving into what turns you on. Sex is about the pleasure. Sex is not about the orgasm. So if we're so orgasm focused, we're removing all of the emphasis on what led up to that. So if you're having a relationship, some intimate time with your partner and you're like,

oh, did you come? Do you have an orgasm? Well, you've just removed everything that we did before that. What about all the fun that I had before that one orgasm? No, I may not have had an orgasm, but everything else was pleasurable. We're such an orgasm-focused society that when people tell you, no, I didn't have an orgasm, we feel bad. We feel like we weren't good enough. We didn't do it good enough. We weren't good enough for you. That has nothing to do with it. There was so much pleasure. It could have been that this person had something going on in their head. It could be that maybe they're hungry. It could be maybe they are in an uncomfortable position or just not into it, but they're still having fun. They just didn't orgasm. That's okay. It's not

about the orgasm. It's about the pleasure. And so focusing on what we're going to do to lead up to whatever we're leading up to, it's that lead up, that excitement that is sex as well. It's not just penis and vagina or penis and anus. Thank you for that. I think so many people need to hear that because it is all based on an orgasm. Or if it's just like the quick orgasm, the whole thing is like a letdown right for the other partner it's like uh what about me or what about taking the time to explore each other and and do and what you're saying what about me is because i'm assuming and you can correct me if i'm wrong that your partners are usually have they usually have penis they're penis owners and penis owners usually have the mentality when they come

and they finish everything's finished and there's this orgasm gap and like you just said you know it could come quick and you're like, well, what about me? It doesn't just stop when the man has or the penis owner has an orgasm. It stops when both of you says it stops. Because even if you can't get hard or you're having some issues, there are toys, there are fingers, there are mouths, there are other alternatives to pleasure your partner. Don't just stop because, oh, I had an orgasm. It's a two-way street here. Exactly. And this was years and years ago, but it's very common with you said a penis owner right it's been like yeah but I thank you for clarifying that because yeah there's so much pleasure to be had and it can be in everything like you said you know the

foreplay but that means that can mean sexting that can mean like watching a porn I mean like dressing up for each other I mean there's so many things that you can explore with your partner yeah I love that so it's amazing so I give my couples a quiz and it's their sexual preference quiz and so I have three levels to it level one is just kind of you know it's it's sexy but it's not it's not too much level two is a little bit more level three is hardcore like let's try some some key some BDSM things let's try some different elements that we've not tried before and I give that to my partners and I give each one of them a copy and they fill it out and then they trade and I usually have two different color pens

and then I trade and they're so shocked by what their partners have put. They're like, really, you want to try this? Like, I never even thought of that. But we don't talk about it because sex is so taboo. We're not allowed to talk about it. We're not encouraged to talk about it. We're just supposed to have it and know what to do.

And so getting the couples and I mean, everybody, just explore what is interesting to you and what feels good to you. And you start that by pleasuring yourself. Yeah. No, that's really good to know because what if you guys are complete opposite, right? And you've just been kind of like, oh, this is the norm.

This is just yada, yada. Let's just keep it kind of consistent. What happens when it's like literally black and white? That is an issue that results in probably it's like marital deathbed, which means they usually don't have sex anymore. And then we become it becomes unhappy. we become frustrated, everything irritates you. Now, unless you're going into that, unless you're going into that relationship knowing, yeah, we're not sexually compatible,

we get sexual satisfaction through other means. That's, you know, maybe we have partners that we play with, or maybe we, you know, go to these lifestyle events and we, you know, have adventures there, whatever that means. But if you go into it and you don't know, and you find out you are, the lifestyle, meaning not necessarily having to have sex with other people, but the lifestyle comes into play because you can find different avenues and different things that really excite both of you. You just have to experiment and you have to be open to experimenting. The second level to that is you have to know what to do. So that's why it's great to go see a sex therapist, to work with somebody. Just because you think you have excellent sex, you could have

even better sex I can't tell you the amount of times of workshops that I've hosted and I teach a workshop called pleasuring the pearl and then another one called pleasuring the penis and so like husbands will say oh my I don't I do that fine I don't need to know how to pleasure the pearl and you know the wives are sitting there like giving me the eye going uh can you get them in this class please they take the class and every time every time they those same gentlemen that have come up to me and said oh I don't need this come up to me afterwards and they're like wow I didn't even know that. I didn't know that my partner liked this. And I was like, see, it's great to go to these workshops or to have a sex therapist or something to get your mind outside

of what you think is everything. You think, oh, well, we're having good sex. But are you really? Could you have better? Probably. And it's exciting. And it's a journey to learn. And you learn so much about yourself and your partner and the communication opens. Oh, it's a beautiful thing when you start exploring with your partners. I love that you're so passionate about it. I can just hear it when you're talking. I love it. And I think it's so great that this is, you know,

in your space and your realm of education and expertise because, yeah, everybody, like you said, you could be having great sex or just the same sex for so long and you want to change that shit up, okay? But again, you weren't given a handbook when you got married or entered into this relationship. There wasn't someone there that said, oh, here's the handbook on how to operate this human.

We don't come with operation manuals. So if we're not trying and we're not practicing and we're not exploring, then we don't know what we like and what we don't like. Questions, asking questions. I love would you rather. You know, if you're starting out with a partner or your new partner or you're wanting to explore with your old partner, try. Hey, would you rather do, would you rather have sex in the bed or would you rather have sex on the balcony? Okay. Balcony.

oh, that's interesting. Okay. I didn't think that, you know, would you rather have sex in a public place or have sex in a private place? These little questions can start opening up the conversation and exploration between partners. And all you're doing is just asking, would you rather? A great, great tool. I hope everybody's listening because these are amazing nuggets. Like you said, great, great nuggets. So I have one question, last question to ask you. and it's something I ask all of my guests and it is what was one of your favorite dates and what was it one of my favorite dates I've had a lot of really great dates I am all about the adventure dates so I love when I get to do something outside of the everyday norm like going to meet for drinks

or coffee or whatnot. So I think the best date for me was a skydiving date and it was with my ex. And so we're both skydivers now. He's skydiving somewhere else and I haven't skydived in a while because of work schedules, but it was our third date. We went skydiving together and did tandems and that was so much fun for me because it was, it got my adrenaline going. It produced all of these great hormones and chemicals that made me feel wonderful. There was a bonding between us because we had done something dangerous together. Now, granted, we were doing tandems attached to other people,

but we were together, you know, doing it together. And it really made us bond a lot quicker than I think most I would have bond through, you know, coffee and drinks or whatnot. So I think the adventure dates have always been my favorite. Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing.

Yeah, that's like, I love those two. And I think they're so important when you are starting to get to know somebody. So it doesn't have to be as, you know, adventurous as that, but like something outside of the norm, which is amazing. Okay, so where can everybody find more about you or the services you offer?

Everything is on my website, evolvesyourintimacy.com. I'm on all social media platforms. I say all. I'm on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. There's new ones that pop up every day. The three main ones that I know of, I'm on those. I do private sessions. I do group sessions.

I'm at a lot of events. So there's probably, it's on the website, But if you can't, if you need me, I'm there more than likely I will be at an event. So yeah, definitely check it out. I'm like I said, I work with individuals. I work with couples, throuples, polycules. I just, I work with everybody and don't sit there and think, well, maybe I should. If you're questioning, maybe I should reach out for help or maybe I should talk to somebody.

Do it. It's definitely worth your time. And remember, you're investing in yourself. If you invest in going and getting a haircut, you invest in your makeup or you invest in your clothes and this is just another investment you're investing in yourself to better yourself yes exactly and there's no stigma like everyone needs help and coaching and guidance and it's totally normal and it's okay it's like why wouldn't we give ourselves that like you said so thank you so much for being here dr stephanie you're amazing i always enjoy our time together

and i look forward to talking to you soon yes definitely thank you for having me and again if you ever need anything, guys, evolveyourintimacy.com. Check her out. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Come and hang out with me on Instagram at Celeste Moore Image. Let me know your thoughts on today's episode because I always love hearing from you all. You can find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website, celestmore.com. Okay, that's all for now. I'll see you in the next episode. See you next time, friends.