Moore Style - Dating as an Introvert with Jacqueline Shaulis

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Motivational speaker and author Jacqueline Shaulis joins us this week for a fun conversation around introversion! Whether you identify as an introvert or want to understand them better, this episode is for everyone. Jacqueline unpacks the four different types of introverts, practical tips for dating as an introvert, and why introversion and extroversion are more than just black-and-white definitions.  If you want a push to start getting comfortable with being uncomfortable, this is the episode to tune into. I learned so much about introversion and I know you will too. Make sure to share your takeaways with us over on Instagram! In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:52] About Jacqueline Shaulis [03:29] How extroverts and introverts process information [07:52] The four types of introverts [12:49] Why Jacqueline started talking about introversion [18:38] How to start dating as an introvert [27:46] Introversion and forward planning [31:33] Going on a date with an activity [39:08] A freeing practice for introverts  [43:03] Why it’s important to protect your energy [51:22] Jacqueline’s favorite date   Connect with Jacqueline: Website

Welcome to the down and dirty podcast, the ultimate guide to modern midlife dating. I'm your host Celeste Moore and I'm here to help you navigate the challenges of today's dating world. Think of me as your female version of hitch but better with over 16 years of experience as a certified image consultant and dating coach. I've got the inside scoop on what women want. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the world of healthy masculinity and modern dating. It's a fast changing industry. And here you'll find personal stories, expert insights

and candid conversations that will empower you to take control of your dating life. There's never been a better time to achieve your desired outcome, whether it's marriage, finding a significant other, securing a life partner or simply regaining your dating confidence. We're here with you twice a week to explore the viewpoints and challenges in today's dating arena that resonate with every man seeking dating success and love. So let's dive into today's episode. We've got an exciting discussion lined up for you. Get ready for the double D's of dating where dating dilemmas turn into dating triumph. welcome everybody to another episode of the down and dirty podcast as always i'm your host celeste

moore and thank you for everyone that's new here today and everyone that continues to show up i really appreciate you and i would also appreciate if you could leave a review hopefully you love this so much it's a five-star review but this really helps the show get shown more and and in we educate more and bring more beautifulness to the world. So I know that really is not a word, but you know, more beauty into this world. Before I dive into today's episode, I would love to introduce to you my guest today. I'm so excited to have her. She is known for her energy, enthusiasm, and flair. Jacqueline Chalas has wowed audiences on six continents with her messages to embrace your awesome by communicating with fullness and boldness at work, home, and beyond.

As an introverted woman of color, she's navigating an accomplished but challenging upbringing to become an international speaker, global best-selling author, and advisor to Fortune 500 execs, all while honoring her introversion. The excitable introvert gets audiences in over 20 countries thinking, talking, and taking action, and her expert shenanigans have been featured in Forbes, The Washington Post, Today, TEDx, and Yahoo. She's the founder of Awesome Enterprises LLC and the executive director of National Center for Intersectional Studies. Well, thank you so much for being on today's show, Jacqueline. I really appreciate you showing up and taking the time. I'm excited.

I can't wait to get into conversation, what all comes up. I know. I just want everybody to kind of know how I just met you just a couple weeks ago. And you were saying how you maneuvered everything to be in Dallas. And I'm so grateful because I was able to sit down with you at dinner and just kind of strike up a conversation like we all do. And I think what really surprised me is you were like, I'm an introvert. And I was completely shocked because you're so comfortable in your own skin.

And I honestly think that when people hear the word introvert, there is this assumption that arises. There's these all these words that pop up that don't relate to how I felt about you. Can you talk a little bit about that? Is that something that you discuss when you speak? Yeah. Yes. This comes up all the time.

It's like, oh, you can't be an introvert. You're like smiling. and talking to people, you seem happy. There's no way you could be an introvert. Like, you know, we are like happy people, but you're just quietly happy. We are happy in our solitude. And yes, this comes up so often. And I think a bit of the disconnection is that people tend to think of introversion or someone who is introverted as being someone who is antisocial or someone who was shy or someone who was quiet. And an introvert can have those qualities, but that is not what makes someone introverted. You can have an antisocial extrovert. You can have an extrovert

that has social anxiety. And this is all about how you process stimulation. That's all an introvert is. And same for extroverts. Introverts, we process stimulation internally. So we're thinking about it. We're feeling into it. We're picking up on all of the cues, what's said, what's not said, how you're reacting, how am I reacting to the way that you're reacting? How do I think you might react to how I might react to how you're reacting? Like we do all of this in our head. And so because we're juggling all of these plates, our energy depletes very quickly. Whereas extroverts, they are external processors. And so they need to talk through their thoughts. They need to walk through their thoughts. They need to maneuver around it. And so you'll find that extroverts are often

talking, talking, talking, but it's how they're processing. And it can be very interesting for the introvert because we're like, oh, if you're saying these things, this is what you actually mean. This is like final. And the extrovert doesn't even remember what they said because they were still processing like what they even thought or felt about a thing. So when we have that kind of juxtaposition where you have someone who is talking, who is forward facing, who is engaging I was like oh you're talking you must be extroverted like well no I just know how to be in certain circles I manage my energy to be here I'm going to run away and hide in like 30-ish minutes and I'll need a day or two to recover from this I'm so glad I'm so glad I got to meet you and

have this conversation and just a quick thing I was so glad that you started you initiated the conversation. We're sitting there and I was feeling so awkward. And the person sitting next to me, Nicole, we knew each other for three years and we had just met in person. We knew each other online. And so I'm like, okay, well I know Nicole, so I'll talk to her, but I don't know any of the rest of these people. So I'm just going to pretend that they don't exist. And I'm just going to eat my cauliflower and be happy but then you had such a warmth about you and and just it was such a joy to be next to you it's like oh okay you're a comfortable person you have good energy okay I'll talk to you like I'll totally talk to you you you feel good and we introverts can often do that

I love that I love that you broke it down even for me which is still confusing like when I hear like you said introverts are not always shy they don't always you know they're not always quiet and it's just like the way that you process and that's really interesting because when you were speaking about the introvert and the extrovert I do both like and I had and I'm you know I'm trying to define I'm like oh who am I and yeah there are some moments where my energy is zapped and I just need to like shut down and like wow that was a lot and even after the three days I felt, I came home, I felt jet lagged. And obviously I live in the same time zone. I only drove three hours to Austin from Dallas. So I was like, there's no way you could feel this way. But

I think there was so much information, amazing people and amazing information, but it hit me like a ton of bricks. So. Yeah. And I love that you pointed that out because often people think either you're an extrovert or you're an introvert, or maybe you're kind of like an extroverted introvert, an introvert, extrovert. And the truth is that we're all gradients of gray. Everyone has a drop of extrovert. They have a drop of introvert. And then lots of dimensions of how that plays out. And that can come out more during certain situations. It can come out with the kind of vibe that's going on. And so there's not a hard and fast rule on how you process, because again, there is a whole gradient of it.

And in fact, there are four types of introverts on which most people don't realize there are four categories. And so someone like me, who's more of a social introvert, I am perfectly fine with being in spaces where I'm having conversations, where I'm engaging with people if it's with purpose.

But I know that after this amount of time, I need to back it on up. I have a few extra drops of the extrovert, but not enough to be an extrovert. And so it's important for people to recognize that that can sometimes be a challenge too. It's like, oh, well, I like people and I'm an extrovert. Well, I'm sick of people though. So maybe I am an introvert. And we're just, we're all gradients of gray. I like that. I like that we're all like a little touch of something. I mean, that makes sense, right? In certain situations and like you said, certain vibes. So what are the four types

of introvert? So there's the social introvert, who is someone who they can willingly engage socially, and they enjoy that. But then for introverts, once they process that, they need a little bit of time away. There's the analytical introvert, who's all about that's the thinking, thinking, thinking. So we are the ones who probably are more quiet. There's another one that's the quietest of the four. But there was the analytical introvert is the one who is processing the most. And so this one tends to be more empathetic, someone who has more access to intuition. And so they're analyzing every scenario to like the fifth or sixth degree. They're like a chess player, but with reality. So that gets really interesting. And then there's the reserved

introvert and the reserved introvert I think is what many people tend to associate with introverts the reserved introvert is someone who prefers to be in that observer mode the they're not really going to engage they can love you you can be like the best but they're going to hold everything kind of close to their chest observe everything that's going on take it all in and just be cool with that so they're not going to hang out they don't want to socialize with you even if you're in that very special group maybe it's like a real hard maybe on a day-to-day basis and the last one just blanked out of my mind wait the last one just left me you said social analytical reserve it's The social, the reserve, the analytical.

Oh, God, what is... I cannot remember the fourth one. Okay, well, you'll remember it. I've got to look it up because the fourth one is closer to the social, but I just can't. My brain is fogging on the name. But for that fourth one, this is someone, when the name comes to me, this is the introvert who is social but only in very select scenarios so once they have that group that they feel free with they feel kinship with this select group is who they will engage

with all the time these are their people but you would see them in any other scenario like if you see them okay you see them all they will be kind of hanging out like the wallflower And so all introverts have these different aspects. It just depends on our situation. What I often talk about as being the running joke is how much introverts actually talk. Like we talk a lot, but we have to be around like certain people. We have to feel a level of comfort and a level of connection that whoever I'm engaging with is worth the energy that's being expended.

I'm not sure if you're going to be worth me using up all this energy. probably not going to start a conversation, probably not going to go to that event, probably not going to say yes to that opportunity. I don't know if this is going to be worth me having to recover for days. So that's very similar for all of the different categories. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I usually like jump into kind of what your backstory is. You just told me before that you started talking about speaking in general, like in single digits. But when did you really start talking about introversion? Is it something you felt that needed to be out there because there wasn't enough information when you were young?

Or is it just a passion of yours? Well, the introversion piece is fairly recent. I've always been someone who's done training and I teach, I advise. So I'm like the nine and 10 year old who's giving like life advice to the adults. I'm the one who like people are coming to me to like ask me, so what do you think about such and such? Now, I don't know where I came up with any of this stuff, but apparently that it was helpful and it was great.

And so a lot of doors got open for me around communication and leadership early on. But this piece around introversion, that was only since about 2020. I keep thinking 20s as 2000s. So around the time that I started leaning more into the introversion piece, and honestly, it was a fluke. I typically work with women, many of whom happen to be introverted, but also with men who tend to be on the introverted or ambivert side, which you kind of fought between the two, just depending on the situation. And so what I was seeing is that I kept having a number of these women who were making similar complaints about how their boss was making snide comments about them being quiet or they were feeling like really iced out because every time they try to get a word in edgewise, they never have the opportunity to. I was like, OK, well, this is really strange to have so many of these conversations kind of all around the same time. Like within some weeks, I had like maybe a dozen, which is unreal.

So I asked some friends, I asked some colleagues, have you noticed kind of an uptick with this? And they were agreeing that they had personally experienced this. I started researching it because I'm a social scientist by education and there's no research about introversion in this way. particularly for introverted women of color there's work around introversion there's work about women in the workplace there's work about race sometimes race and gender but the introversion piece just wasn't there like okay well that's weird like there's research on everything like we know about beer bubbles but not this like what's going on and so that's when I started leaning more into this and actually doing interviews and getting very academic about it.

And it was shocking, the experiences. Now, I am a Black woman who is very introverted, although I'm bubbly in my moments. And I was not aware of the level of interpretation of experience that was happening and how so many women across the country, across all of the different things that you could mark were having the same experience where they were being told that their introversion not only is a problem but it's threatening to other people and so they're being penalized by not getting promotions not getting raises not being let in on opportunities even though they have the qualifications for it they have the background they have the promises of it and so everything started from that this whole thing three years later started from just

Okay, well, that's weird. Like, what do you mean that your boss told you I can't give you this raise because you're too quiet? Like, that's not legal, is it? Technically, it is. Technically, you can do that. So my work has now transitioned less from the space of just communication and leadership and more at looking at introversion as its own intersectional identity. And what do you do with that? Like, what do you do when your retirement is on the line, when your career advancement is on the line, your ability to provide for yourself and your family is on the line because someone was not happy about you not having a conversation at the water cooler in the morning. They felt threatened and felt that you were being aggressive with your silence. These sorts of things, common stories, sadly common stories. So that's where all of this began. It's been a very interesting ride for the past few years. Yeah.

And I would say, too, you know, you said 2020, right? So, yeah, the whole world shut down and became more introverted as well. Like they came into their shells. They got really uncomfortable with speaking. And maybe that wasn't their normal self because of, you know, being scared. And I know that may just be temporary, but it brought a lot of things up to the surface. that I'm sure that you're still kind of dealing with. I mean, I know definitely in the workplace

and that completely has shifted as well. A lot of hybrid, but how do you... So interestingly enough, I'm kind of going off topic or different topic here, but most of, there's a few posts that I've done that have gotten huge amounts of traffic and huge amounts of commentary. And it's about introverts and how they date.

and I found it so fascinating that so many people were excited to hear about ways and different date ideas and how to kind of move past some of the struggles that they deal with only because I was researching it once I found out that this was well I didn't think that that was going to be such a hit you know right and I know you deal with mostly Black women or women of color in the workplace but how could you speak to somebody who's just starting to date and is just say they were out of a relationship because like you said if you're an introvert and if you're next to the right people and you're comfortable with those people then you've you figured stuff out right say you break up and now you're wanting to date again and like how do you maneuver how do you do

something that's very uncomfortable maybe or unfamiliar? Yeah, this is a very interesting topic for me because that's literally my life now. I am the introvert who is dating. I was married for 20 years together for 28. And this year we amicably separated. We're divorced now. And so the idea of having to like, oh, I've got to like purposefully meet someone. Like there's not just gonna be some guy like i'm just pushing my basket and target and he's like hey beautiful let me just whisk you away i think all your dreams come true i i can't just have that happen where i'm like doing nothing but just like wandering the aisles um no that's that's not gonna happen stance would be amazing fantastic i'm still hoping that that like somehow works itself out but in the meantime

I'm being in a space where where I'm having to apply my own teachings to my own very private life has been curious and so what I would typically advise is that for women first and foremost to kind of get comfortable with being uncomfortable like recognize it's going to feel awkward I mean it's going to feel more awkward than usual because it's not like just you're in a meeting and you might be feeling a little bit uncomfortable you're talking about someone and wanting to be in relationship and wanting to have these very private parts of you that have nothing to do with taking off things to have that exposure and so normalizing the fact that this will feel a little uncomfortable but you surely will not die if you die you have bigger problems so you

won't die it's okay and it's okay for you to just make that clear that's another thing that I find a lot of people are very especially for introverted women they're very hesitant to not come across the wrong way like not say the wrong thing and why there's certainly you don't don't be like super weird nobody loves side notes don't be super weird I love it a little bit weird because that's kind of our default like weird and being like the uncanny supernatural unorthodox that's who that are so but don't be like super weird but be okay with saying you know what this is really uncomfortable for me I need to just go I'm gonna go to the bathroom for like three minutes I'll be right back like I didn't ditch you I'm coming right back just being vulnerable enough

to acknowledge that now you might not use those words but the same principle applies it allows the other person to see the side of you and be open to that vulnerability you have to show like a lot of yourself to say I need like to take a five can I just like text you for the next week or so and then we finally have a conversation like having that vulnerability actually can be more attractive because you're not putting on airs you're just being yourself and so the last piece that along with that is when you know you're going to be going on dates especially if you're doing like speed dating or you're trying to like do all of this which that has been oh dear god that's been an experience but also make sure that you are managing your energy so make sure that

you are setting aside time to kind of get your mind to a place of comfort so whether that's having a cup of tea and that's having a certain mantra that you tell yourself doing breath work whatever helps you to get in that space where you feel recharged get into that space before your date or before your conversation before your hang I think get into that space and then also allow yourself some space afterward to kind of recalibrate because what can easily happen is because our emotions are high there's the expectation of okay I don't want to be super weird and also I don't know if this person is super weird but this will probably go great it may very well go off the rails our brains are looking at all of those scenarios and so our energy is already because

our emotions are high our natural ability to kind of imagine all scenarios get heightened so your energy can deplete like in an instant give yourself the grace to recharge and if you need to take a beat then while you're on the date it is okay for you to take a couple moments or just have that thing that allows you to kind of reconnect with your energy so that you can stay present so whether this is amazing whether it's awful you are still present and you are making sure you are managing you now having said all of that that's all like fine and good that is solid advice and I'm sure this is something very similar that you would tell anyone who is dating as someone who's like living this now that stuff is hard to do it is so simple it is so simple

But it's not necessarily easy because as introverts, we're wanting to create all of these scenarios and we have all of these expectations and our brains are processing all of the ways that not only the person is feeling how we're feeling about the person's feelings and the interpretations of that. So it can be a lot more difficult for us to stay present. And so for me personally, it has been really an exercise of, okay, I really don't want to do this. but you know what I'm going to do it because I know whether this date whether this activity whether this whatever if it goes really well then great it went really well if it goes really terrible I'll have a great story out of it either way I'm good like either way I'm good so let me just be present let me just be present for it let me just be willing to feel uncomfortable to be awkward if i need to be in order to maintain myself and to get myself back into that place like okay where's my rock you know i'll usually have like crystals in my pocket or i'll have a

picture of my kiddo on my phone and those are the things that i use to kind of get myself back into the present so if you are struggling with it like i'm right there with you I'm right there with you yeah I know and I think it's difficult for so many people it just there's just not everybody but especially there's this just there's an awkwardness that comes with when you start dating anybody and so heightened for you as well like you have that extra extra like your head's like you know just stories and so yes your energy is just like zapped do you think that you know no matter what when you're telling yourself okay I'm going to do this no matter if it's a good story or if this turns out well do you feel that the

more you practice like anything it gets a little bit easier yes yeah it's gotten it's gotten more tolerable okay tolerable that's a good word that's a good word my my hesitation because let me let me backtrack a little bit yeah I was with my partner since I was 17 wow so this is like I'm starting over like from scratch I used to I don't know who I was telling but I was telling them I'm basically like a virgin co-ed with an ex-husband and a kid you know it's so brand new like starting all of this over and so for me I personally feel a lot more of that pressure and kind of awkwardness that can come from it because like I feel like I should know what to do like I should know how to like wink I should know how to like

toss my hair flirtily like I should know this but I wasn't practicing that I was married married and raising a kid like when when was that happening and so there are these those sorts of experiences that I found I have to give myself a bit more grace and that awkwardness it's like you know what chill like it's okay so you can't wink so you're just not going to wink like just take the pressure off good lord or even one of the other things that and this is just for for me what I found very curious in this process is and it's related to introversion is how we tend to forward plan so we'll have an experience so we'll we'll go to a place we'll have a connection we'll do whatever and then our brains will want to process all of the steps forward that could happen so okay

we're going to meet for lunch simple easy okay so what if i get fish and i choke on a bone okay i'm not gonna choke on a bone i won't get fish i'll get a salad but then the salad's gonna get stuck in my teeth okay i can't do that but then maybe he thinks the salad in my teeth is like really cute and so then he can tell me about it and then it's this whole bonding thing and then like when our kids know about this later because surely there are kids after this one date then we'll be able to tell them this really cute story like oh your mother had lettuce in her teeth and she nearly choked on a bone of fish and I had to rescue her and that's how all of this all of this nonsense over just lunch and so this is something that we do often in many scenarios but it can be

really a hindrance when you're doing it as far as dating because again then comes the pressure and the expectation that this is supposed to be insert what your expectation is as opposed to I'm just getting to know this person I'm getting to decide if this is someone who is worth my energy this person is deciding if I'm worth their energy can we just have like a lunch and just enjoy a conversation like we don't need to think about okay so where is he going to put his stuff because i only have one spare room and it's small like where is his couch going to go like i don't even know if he likes leather couches because i hate them and that might be a deal but like that has nothing to do with lunch yeah can you just enjoy the lunch and we just stay where we

with this and so that I've personally had to struggle with that but it's again for us introverts our brain we are seeing all the universe of possibilities with everything it's important for us to recognize that to be aware when we're doing it and like okay let me let me loosen up the valve a little bit let me take a little bit of this pressure off where it's just coffee yeah just no one's moving furniture it's just calm down I'm so glad you shared that and brought that up because the essence of my first state language with every client is literally how can we take off the pressure how can it not be an interview how can it be these million questions that go through our head where we can just enjoy and have fun because really you want to feel

someone's energy you want to know if you vibe you want to know if like they might be perfect on paper right they might be like oh my god and meanwhile we're looking at the paper we're like oh yeah he's my baby daddy you know he's like you know like uh-huh he's definitely moving in tomorrow like you said i think women we naturally especially women we go you know right to it or if somebody really wants a relationship really bad so they're like okay this is it but take off take that all out that's why you're going out with a person to see if you like them and then just like I always say and I don't know if you've done this but I recommend doing an activity so versus the forget even the coffee dates even the like let's meet at a bar or restaurant I like that for like second

third fourth date maybe I really recommend and it doesn't have to be a crazy activity maybe you're not super adventurous maybe you are but like even going to the park or if you have a dog or just like a very almost like a buffer too right for people that need a little bit of extra something there with them or even a friend date right take your friends and no pressure for the other one just kind of get to know each other in an environment that's a little less intrusive if you will um and i think that's so important even if you're not an introvert to just like step back for a minute, do something that maybe you've wanted to do for a while. Maybe you go to a book signing, maybe you go to a museum, like do something that you can, there's an exit closer,

or there's just, you know, just whatever makes you feel comfortable. Right. And I think that's so important. And like you said, it's a lot of mindsets, a lot of tools and things in your head. And it sounds like you're doing a great job, you know, trying to talk yourself into like, okay, let's just let's just check let's just have a good time today yeah I've had to have so many spoonfuls of my own medicine yeah I thought of just having to check in with me and I love that suggestion actually there's a potential date that's coming on the horizon and that's one of the things that it's like okay well what's something that we can do and this was just I want to make sure the pressure is off of me and my own head let alone like him like you're

you're fine you're good you're great me on the other hand I need to rein me in and from the perspective if I take myself out of it and just look at the objective piece so supportive to have something that you're doing as an activity because then the focus is not so much on what am I feeling about what that person is feeling about me much more on okay this is something that we can do together I can focus on this for those who are competitive you can bring out more of that for those who are cooperative you can lean into that there's this place that allows for an ebb and flow of activity so whether it's something that's competitive or not like you mentioned a book signing that too can be something that the focus is on not all of the vibes that are happening

or the lack of vibes because that's a reality too yeah i mean rather than focusing on all of that now there is this other piece that the focus can be directed to and so rather than mulling over in ruminating and like oh my god I can't believe I did like in the moment let alone after now there's a place to direct some of that energy there's a place to put some of that energy and if it's something that you enjoy or that you discover that you enjoy that can really be recharging and having that burst of energy that recharge allows you to show more of your personality allows you to be more open allows you to be more vulnerable which makes for a better date so yeah I love that she said that and I'm I'm glad I'm on the right track

you are I mean I need something to try to like get myself together yes you are you really are and look I'm a dating coach and I'm single and by choice okay like I'm almost there I mean I'm on I'm on a dating app but like okay but still kind of not there and for so many reasons so like I have to give myself a dose of my own medicine as well like okay do what you preach celeste you know like there's not the best worst thing where it is fine i'm going to do what i say to do i know it works uh just get uncomfortable yes yeah and i'm comfortable with being uncomfortable Oh, my God. Goggins says that all the time. And I absolutely love that. I know I don't sure he's not the first person, but he's just a person and I just he's a beast. He's a whole nother level. But yeah, I love that so much. And I say that quite often because I think since that I make it a habit at least once a day, something to make to push myself to stretch myself. So when we talk about how you're like, I don't know anybody, we're sitting at the dinner, you know, we're like, Jen Gottlieb, Chris Winfield, like, this is amazing. You know, all these amazing people that were there who are, you know, successful. And it was just like a really beautiful space. I didn't know anybody. I came all by myself. That was like a huge stretch for me.

And then I made it a point that every day I would sit with someone new, every opportunity, not just every day, but because I was going to get the most out of it. And every single time it was uncomfortable. But at the end, it was so juicy and amazing because I met all these amazing connections like you. And yeah, so I know that it's more difficult, like you said, for introvert people because of the stories and the energy and the, you know, it's a lot more just really fast. my daughter growing up she was always that way and I was not and I was like go hug your uncle go kiss your uncle or you know and it was like she was so uncomfortable even though she knew her family loved her and finally she found a way to like you know work that out but and then I felt so bad as a parent because I didn't know I just thought my daughter was being difficult you know right and after I learned I'm like oh my god what an asshole I was so like you know push that on her when that didn't feel comfortable for her so you know I just I'm it's just grateful that you have

you're speaking about this and bringing awareness because yeah that woman that got scorned or didn't get the promotion because they felt uncomfortable with her silence I mean basically what it was yeah terrible yeah dozen dozens of women of the mad 120 some odd that i've interviewed nearly all have a story like that which is just mind-blowing yeah and in having conversations with some of the introverted men because they they have their own set of circumstances um and their own set of challenges because, again, there becomes this notion of, well, if you're a man, especially in the workplace and you have any measure of success, then you've got to be outspoken. You've got to be the one that's bold and brash and like what kind of dud are you if you're like sitting over there

mauling? And that becomes its own set of challenges for how they show up and ways that they need to navigate. But they've never experienced, at least the ones I've had conversations with, they've never experienced having their manager telling them I can't give you this promotion because you don't hang out after hours or so and so feels threatened because you're being quiet or I need you to not be like so focused on your work I need you to go and make the rounds and have conversations but that has nothing to do with their jobs they've never experienced that but nearly all of the women have. So those sorts of things like, wait, what? I never would have known, never would have had a clue about any of that without going down this road. There is one thing

I wanted to piggyback on that you mentioned to backtrack just a little about changing the places that you sit. This is something that I started doing and it is so freeing. I know for like that introverted piece, it is a fantastic way for you to be able to network and get to know people without having to network and get to know people because you are putting yourself into a new space you're sitting by this new person you can have like a hey how's it going what do you do for work each time you're in that different space and so now you have all of these different connections that you can make we love making connections for the most part we see how everything is connected and when we can be of help and of service we typically want to do that even if we're like

really quiet and in the back and we just send like an email about it. We're not going to call someone, but we'll totally send an email. I will text them for you. And so this is a great way for introverts to be able to connect and to be able to get some of that engagement. And that was what I did at this conference too. That's like, okay, I'm going to sit by a different person. I'm going to have a conversation with that person, even if it's just like, hey, how's it going. And then I'm not going to worry about any of the rest of this. Like, oh, we have a networking mixer. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. But what I will do is I will sit on this different side of the room. I'll sit in different rows. I'll connect someone that I did have a conversation

with earlier and say, oh, hey, I had a conversation with this new person. You two should meet. Let me connect you. I'll totally do that. But I'm not going to stand in a group of people and like doing math under the table so finding those ways that can be supported in you connecting in you networking and you engaging and that goes goes back to dating too like you don't have to necessarily be the person who's juggling like 15 dates like you don't have to do all of that because that's going to be totally overwhelming there is nothing wrong with having the one person that you're getting to know, and then maybe have another person that may be of interest, that's perfectly fine. You don't need 15 different dates and months. That is going to be so depleting,

so confusing, so frustrating. You're going to be all over the place emotionally, let alone mentally, but trying to keep track of how you're feeling and how you're engaging in all of these ways, then you're going to get so frustrated. It's like, you know what? Forget it. I'm just going to die with my cat it's going to be fine that's just that's my life now so be it you could just take a step back and find those ways that you can place yourself in situations where you get to have that difference you get to have that contrast of experience you get to have that variety of people but in a way that is still supportive of your introversion no that's so beautiful that you brought that up and thank you for sharing that because I think it's so important and I think

that goes like across the board I don't know if you've ever watched any of the matchmaker shows but there's the Indian matchmaker and she basically will find three suitors for a particular client and she'll actually make them choose one and then go for the dates she has the other two on the back burner but until it's like a hard no then she'll give you the next out of two and then you get to pick and it's like it makes so much sense too right and I know like you said 15 I mean that to me I'm just like oh hell no that just is too crazy my head is like bopping all over and how can you really get to know somebody anyway that's like a five full-time jobs there you know quick interjection a friend of mine I told him he gave me dating PTSD and this was

before i was still married we were still like trying to work things out like you don't have to say yes to every date like every person who is interested in you you don't have to say yes and go out to them like i totally get it you want a partner that's cool that's great that's wonderful but if you need a spreadsheet to keep track of people you're doing too much if you are getting confused and so rather than using names or just using like hun because you don't want to call susan tammy or whatever you're kind of doing too much and whether you meet that person or not how can you even know if that's someone that you want to spend time with when you are muddling the waters by going on like a morning date and then an evening date like you'll meet someone for lunch

and then someone like what are you doing oh my god yeah i just had to interject that because that was nuts that is that was great for me to sit on the side with like popcorns like you have lost your mind no train rat oh my god i love that yes uh i'm sure that's pretty common to especially with all the dating apps and that can just, you know, going through all of the likes and it's like, you know, so I mean, I prefer to like, you know, pick one or two, go for it. But I don't think you should put your eggs in all one basket. So get out there, like try new hobbies, like do things personally to stretch and like know with your values, your beliefs and your life goals and interject yourself

in those and hopefully you'll meet someone that way but if not it's like okay well I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this and the chances of me finding someone are going to be a lot greater yeah and I'm doing things that I like and I want to do I'm not doing stuff that I have no interest in I have no interest in golf I'm not learning golf and buying golf stuff like okay maybe if I find someone who's like into it and it's like okay I can see it's going along right like maybe i'm gonna do something just like oh there are lots of eligible bachelors on the links let me make myself ready like you could have a drink at the golf bar but maybe you're not gonna you know golf yeah so like that that focus and again going back for introversion

you know we not only do we have these deep connections that we want and that we can make But if you only have like an ounce of energy, why are you going to spend your ounce of energy on something that is totally depleting that you have no interest in? Because that's just going to deplete that little ounce even faster on top of the ruminating, on top of the emotions, on top of everything else. now you're doing something you could not give fewer Fs for, just for the hopes that maybe you'll stumble across someone. But when you're doing those activities that you actually do enjoy, that you do have interest in, one, that's going to give you that boost of energy. And that's going to help you to recharge and stay charged in the activity, which again, frees up some of that pressure your personality can come out even more for whomever happens to be around. So if you find

someone who's there and you're doing this activity, this is something you both can relate to. Whether that relationship continues on or not, you still have something that is improving you. You still have something that is bringing joy, delight, and happiness to you. That is essential for us introverts yeah i i love that i mean i think you're so spot on too with like you said when you do something that you really enjoy that's gonna give you more energy and who doesn't want more energy i know i do yeah where do i find that where's that cup of tea if i could bottle that up oh my gosh oh man i hear you it's powerful i have the secret recipe for getting a bottle with no crash. I could just hear people saying, it's water, it's exercise, it's laughter of a

baby. Like that's not in a bottle though. Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. I love that. I really appreciate you sharing all your knowledge and your own journey of what you're experiencing. And I applaud you for stretching yourself because 28 years in a relationship, man, I really applaud you. That is like a whole nother, you're not even like dating, like you said, you're a virgin. co-ed with a husband, a son or a child. Yeah. And so that's so great because I mean, it's been a really long time for my last relationship. I've dated, but I haven't been like, oh, I'm in love. What I define as like a real relationship, you know, and it's big stretch. it's a it's like and it's a whole nother ball game because you know it's forever changing right you've got this app and you've got this thing and you've got this thing and it's like it's not like

when we're I mean you were 17 in high school with like a thousand I don't know plus kids and like this is the dating pool for me you know there was no internet yeah there was no internet and well there was it was at the very beginnings of internet it's like oh god i'm so ancient i can hear my son god mom how old are you he thinks i'm somewhere between 20 and 80 which he's not wrong i just think really that's the spread son teenagers oh my god at any rate like just at the beginnings of that there wasn't like social media platforms or anything like that this is back when there were like we call like bulletin boards like forums and so you these were the things that were available like back then and I was not really

keen on the whole dating system period way back then when it's like okay well you kind of need to date some need to date someone wasn't too too thrilled about that process then I got lucky I happened to meet someone that was amazing I felt a connection with and I knew he would be my person and it's like okay you're my person I'm your person okay cool everything else we can like relax and chill and discover and let it unfold as it is you're my person very different ball game now very different ball game between the technology that's available and the expectations around that. I'm a fully grown adult. I have a teenage son. I have like a whole life. Like there are all of these other variables that are so new and different. And that's been equally exciting

and terrifying about this process. What a completely different landscape that it is from way back then when the internet was in its infancy. Oh gosh, yes. Well, I am proud of you. you got this girl I know it I have a lot of faith in you and you have such good energy and beautiful spirit and I know that like whoever you meet that's for you is just gonna appreciate that so I'm excited for you thank you I appreciate that I received that yay my the introvert in me it's like well I don't I know questioning it off let me be like a reflection of I received that my introvert mind receives this this feedback warmly receives the speed yay i love that i like that you're trying to like you know you know you like i know that this is what i want to do but i'm trying i

want to do this so um thank you one last question what was one of your favorite dates even with ex-husband and what was it my favorite dates that's a good question I'm not sure if it was my favorite but it was one of my most memorable okay and this was very early on with my former partner we had what you described as a friend date so my roommate came with me this was like okay, you're my person. I'm your person. Okay, let's go out. We went to this fancy restaurant. It was in Austin. It was called Mozart's. I didn't even know if Mozart's is still around. So fancy restaurant, Friday night, lights were there. Good conversation, good wine. Everything's beautiful and wonderful. It's like, okay, right choice. We're leaving the restaurant.

We're crossing the street. Cars are waiting as we go across the crosswalk. I had on a skirt and a slip it's like a little undergarment and my undergarments fell in the middle of the street as I was crossing the sidewalk on this beautiful on this beautiful date on Friday nights where it's all packed and I was mortified I was like well I can't just stand here I can't like just lay on the ground and play dead let me just step out of it and keep walking and so I did I thought nothing of it well i thought a lot about how mortified i was but this was one of those experiences that really solidified for me the bond and kinship that we had he was totally unflinched by this he was he was totally like unfazed by it he thought it was so adorable

like you can't possibly think me losing my undergarments in the streets that's adorable like what could have this this was like maybe our third date he was smitten that's what you know And that's definitely one of the more memorable. Well, I appreciate you sharing that because I can see how it can be horrifying. But the way he took it, you're like, you're my knight. Like, okay, yeah, I'll keep you around. Yeah, yeah. I'll keep you around.

Amazing. Well, I love that. And where can people find, I mean, this will obviously be, and I will share all of these with you in the show notes and for social media. but anybody that's listening here today that wants to learn more about your services or for you to speak or any other information, where can people find you? You can always find me at I embrace awesome.com. That is my online home for all things awesome.com and on social media platforms, you can find me at JK Chalice. When you go to I embrace awesome.com,

you'll see the buttons to click there. Amazing. I love that. Well, I hope everybody got to learn something today because I sure did and I absolutely love that you were able to share all these you know tools and and your stories and thank you again for coming on to today's show I appreciate that thank you so much and thank you for making me feel better about my journey of this dating process like oh god this is a hot mess but okay okay are you taking the pressure off. I'm not completely off the rails. No, we're all off a little. So you know what? It's, it's the moments that you get to create. So yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for that. Yes. Thank you. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to support podcasts like ours,

then please hit that subscribe button, leave a five-star rating and, or invite others to listen. Your support is what helps us grow and continue to bring you valuable content. Thanks for hanging out with us on today's episode. Let's stay connected. You can find me on Instagram at Celeste Moore Image, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on today's discussion. For all the links, resources, and additional information mentioned in this episode, check out the show notes on my website, CelesteMoore.com.

That's all for now, but stay tuned for our next episode where we'll dive into more exciting topics. Until then, see you next time, friends.