Moore Style - Finding Growth in Grief with Krista St. Germain

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Grief is something that every human will experience on this planet and through that grief we can learn many things about life and ourselves. Krista St. Germain is a grief specialist and master life coach who lost her husband in 2016. Through her healing she transformed that experience into a way to help other widowed women find themselves and thrive in life.  This episode is jam-packed with quotes that will change your life and stories that will open your heart. You will love this week’s episode with Krista St. Germain if you are grieving, have grieved or know someone currently moving through a loss!   In this week’s episode we discuss:  [1:09] Who is Krista St. Germain? [2:17] What is post-traumatic growth? [5:05] When you know it’s time to stop grieving and move on [8:55] How to get back into dating after losing a spouse  [11:37] When in the grief process does someone usually work with you? [16:21] About Krista’s program, “Mom, Goes On”  [22:35] Does Krista coach differently based on if someone has children or not? [24:07] Krista’s deeper explanation of her six-month program  [25:41] What is the Emotional Freedom Technique?  [28:17] What Krista tells clients who believe they will never love again  [31:28] How Krista made this life changing career change  [36:22] Top three biggest challenges a client goes through when they start dating  [42:18] Krista’s opinion on two widows dating  [43:27] Krista’s favorite date  [45:37] Ways to find more about Krista Connect with Krista Website  Instagram 

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena.

So let's get into today's episode. I'd like to welcome everyone today to today's podcast. Today is number 32 with guest Krista St. Germain. Is that correct? Did I say it right? Okay. Okay. Krista, thanks so much for being here. Krista is a master certified life coach. She's a grief expert, a widow, mom, and host of the widowed mom podcast. When her husband was killed by a drunk driver in 2016, Krista's life was completely flipped upside down. And while it would have been easy to believe her best days were behind her. thankfully Krista discovered life coaching and post-traumatic growth and was able to move forward and create a future she could get excited about now she coaches and teaches other widows so they

can love life again too wow that's um that's that's a lot uh to take in I I can't even um imagine what it's like to be in that situation. Um, but for all of our listeners, just before we kind of get into your story a little bit, or some questions I have, what is post-traumatic growth? Oh, I love that you asked that question because I remember the first time I heard that term and it was like a record scratched, you know, that where you're like, what post-traumatic what, but I don't think enough people know about it. So post-traumatic growth is a term that was coined in the mid-90s by a couple of researchers, last names Tedeschi and Calhoun, if anyone wants to look them up. And before their work, it was thought that after something happened that was

traumatic, and at that time, we didn't understand trauma in the way that we do now. We kind of thought traumatic events were like this list of objective things that could happen to people that were deemed traumatic, but it was thought at that time that there was this baseline of wellness that someone would experience before something quote unquote traumatic. And then after the traumatic event, that wellness level or life satisfaction level would dip. And the best we could hope for was a return to the baseline. But they started noticing that there were actually some people who were going on to report greater life satisfaction, greater levels of wellness following a trauma. And so that's the work that they, they started to study is why does this

happen? Why for some people, do they not even get back to the baseline? Other people return to the baseline. And then there's this other subset of people who go on to actually live deeper and more satisfying lives. And so now we know that that's just, that's what's possible. And basically what I take from that is it doesn't matter what happens to us in life. It's, it's what we choose afterwards, right? What do we want to create after whatever has happened to us in life? And we don't have to just bounce back. We can actually bounce forward. Yeah. That's such a great point because, you know, as we go through life, I think that, yeah. Oh, okay. That was, that was the best we're ever going to live. Right. That's, that's like the,

the climax of my life when in essence, it doesn't have to be. And there's also, like you said, there's, it could be better or you could be stronger. You could be, you know, live this more amazing life that you had no idea. Right. That's literally what I thought after my husband died. It's like, my best days are probably behind me. I should probably just be grateful for what I had. It's never going to be that good again. You know, won't want. And until somebody told me that that's you don't have to settle for that yeah but I didn't know coming to that realization I mean there's got to be a point in the grief because I don't think uh there's such ebbs and flows and I'm sure you've seen like it doesn't ever fully end but maybe it I don't know that's just

something that I've experienced but when do you okay I've grieved enough or I've I've gotten to the point where now I can actually move on? Is it all very personal? I think it's definitely all very personal and it's not a binary, right? So it's not as though grief ends, therefore I can move forward. This has happened and I'm going to move forward with my grief. I'm going to fold it into the fabric of who I am and who I'm becoming. And it doesn't mean that we have to be happy that whatever the loss was happened, right? It just means that we decide, okay, this is something that has happened. I can't change it, but I do get to decide who I want to be and what I want to create going forward. And it is very personal. There was definitely a certain point for me,

I see this with the widows that I work with where early on, if someone said, you know, you can use your loss to love your life, I'd have been like, yeah, go jump in a lake, right? Like that would not have, have resonated with me at all. And I would have seen it as an insult, uh, to him and to his life and his legacy. I would have seen it as a sign that I wasn't a good wife. Like I would have had a lot of judgments about it that would have held me back. And so, yes, it's highly personal and it's, and it's not a morally superior option either. Right.

It's not like something that makes us better. If we decide we, we want to create a life we love more. Like I think about it, like I live in Kansas, so we have tornadoes here and I think about it like a tornado. So if, if I'm living in a house and a tornado comes and it knocks my house down, I could absolutely try to rebuild a house that most closely resembles the one that I lived in forever. Right. Fine. There'd be nothing wrong with that. But also it's highly likely that because I lived in that house for a while, I learned some things about that house that I wanted to change, right? Maybe I want a different kitchen layout, or maybe I want more windows in

my living room, or I want a larger closet, right? I could take the opportunity to redesign the house. And by doing so, that is not an insult to the other house, right? That doesn't mean anything about the other house if I design a new one. It just means that I've learned some things, and it's my right to apply them going forward in my life. And that's how I think about it. It's a great analogy. It's not morally superior. It's not required. It doesn't make you a better person. You shouldn't do it. It's just an option. So I personally have never had clients that have been widowed. Although recently, it's interesting enough, I've had a few clients,

or excuse me, a few people that follow me on social media that have really have asked me questions on how to date after being widowed. And so there, there are those questions coming and that's very vague, of course, but they're asking questions and I'm like, you know what? I'm sure this, this pool of people is much bigger than I have ever anticipated because it's not just, you know, someone getting sick. It's a tragic accident. It's not just old age. You know, there's just all of these different avenues where I don't, maybe a lot of people aren't comfortable with talking about it. Right. So I wouldn't know unless someone said specifically, well, how do I get back into the dating world after I've lost somebody that's

been in my life for just say 30 years? Yeah. Yeah. It's a big question, isn't it? It's a big question. I get it a lot too. And I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to do it. I think there are some things that we, if we take them into consideration can make it an easier or more enjoyable experience. A lot of times I will see women who want to jump into dating and they're doing it for reasons that when they step back and look at, they don't particularly like. So they might be wanting to date because they believe that their happiness isn't available to them unless they're in a partnered relationship. And when they pull back from that and look at it and realize, oh no, actually, that isn't what I really want to believe. But maybe they spent most of their

lives in a partnered relationship and they are unfamiliar with what it's like to move through the world single, solo. And so from my perspective, it's always more enjoyable if we stop and ask ourselves, you know, can I get to a place where I love my life and I believe that happiness is available to me and I'm experiencing joy just in my own skin and in my own life without needing a partner so that I don't feel, you know, that Shel Silverstein book, The Missing Piece. Yes. Yeah. It's like that, right? It's like where when you think you've got something missing and so you're trying to fill it with something outside of you and then you realize it doesn't, it doesn't work. So can we see ourselves as whole and full and then consider, okay, you know,

am I at a place where I want that experience for myself? But it's not because I, there's something missing. And sometimes we do it to, you know, distract ourselves from, from grief. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's just good to be aware that we're doing it. But the how I don't think needs to be, yeah. And honest about it. And I don't think the how needs to be so elusive. I think usually we get lost in the how, when we're feeling a little afraid. It's a good point. And so then that's kind of, yeah, that's kind of what our brain throws at us. And maybe it's been a number of years since we were in the dating game. So maybe it is in some ways true that we don't know what it's like to get on Bumble and we don't, you know, we don't know

the technology of dating now. Like, so there could be a learning curve to that, but, but really how to date again is to find someone that you're interested in and ask them. Yeah. You know, which requires vulnerability and courage. Definitely. So when your clients come to you, I'm just curious, um, are they usually, is it after they've had some therapy? Is it conjunction with it? Is, is there a point usually when there's okay, like I'm ready to like the, the really acute grief is been worked on a little bit and then I come to you or how does that usually work? Yeah. I am best in service of those who are stuck in what I call a grief plateau, which is a term that I made up for what I was

experiencing and didn't have a word for it at the time. So it's, it's past the early acute grief and listen, it's never linear and it's, it's not neat and tight. Right. And it's not like we were in acute grief and then we're in a grief plateau and you know, it's, it's a lot of back and forth and it feels like a hot mess most of the time, but you're at least back to functioning. You're at least, you know, in early acute grief for a lot of us, we're celebrating like getting a shower. We're celebrating, you know, some of those basic wellness activities because they're so hard to do sometimes. So a grief plateau is more like if you wanted to go back to work, you could, or you did. You're getting through the day and the things on your to-do list are getting done. People are

telling you, you're so strong. But on the inside, you kind of know why they're saying that because you see that the appearance that you're giving them is that you have it together. But on the inside, you don't feel strong. You feel a little hollow or empty or you don't feel as good as you want to feel. And you want to do something about it, but you don't quite know how. And you're kind of in that place where you have accepted that the loss happened. You've talked about it enough and whatever tools that you had access to are just no longer getting you the kind of progress that you want to see. That's where I, I come in. That makes sense. You're almost taking that. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say if grief fog is super intense, you know, if

depression is unmanaged, if we can't, you know, really function through the day, if we can't watch a 15 minute video and complete a worksheet. It's too soon for the type of coaching that I offer. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. It's almost like you're, you're going through life like a robot, just kind of going through the motions and you're not really feeling like you could. So then that's when someone would come. Yeah. You want more, you want more and you're ready for more, but you don't know how to get it. That's definitely where I was. And it's like this kind of choice point where you could just kind of continue. And this is what a lot of widows do. And people in grief too, I don't want to just say it's widows, right? We get to this

point and we hear the term new normal and we go, well, maybe this is it. Maybe this is what they're talking about. And we misconstrue what that term was intended to mean, which is just that you'll find a new way. And we make it mean we'll tolerate a life that is less than what we really want. And we kind of resign ourselves to something other than what we want instead of starting to see and believe that we are the powerful creator of whatever we create next and figuring that. Yeah. I feel that, and maybe this is why you work with mothers, but I feel that as a mom, I do this all like already, you know, it's like, it's almost like we're ingrained to take life just, okay, well, this is how things are supposed to be or all right. Well, you know, I'm busy on

this and that that's, I just don't get to have that life of who Celeste is, you know? So yeah, I don't know why society does that, but it's probably even more exaggerated, right? When you are going through an experience like this. Yeah. And I see we, we put so much pressure on ourselves too. Not only are we conditioned as women to put everyone else first and put ourselves last, right. And we're conditioned to believe that our value comes from productivity, right but but then then let's okay now you know we're used to having a partner to parent with and now we've taken that away so then we start putting all this pressure on ourselves that it's all on us right now we have all of this to do and we have no help and we can really you know end up

with no self-care yeah which that's such a terrible example for our children it is not a legacy building move, right. To put ourselves last. Yeah, man. That's, that's a, the balancing act too, is such a, I mean, I'm a single mother. I haven't experienced being a widow, but her father's never been in our life. And so it's almost like he is, you know, non-existent. So yeah, there's a lot of similarities. And of course I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm going through the same thing as a, as a widow. So there are so many similar, there are some, you're right. And I just was like, wow. Yeah, totally. So this group or this program, excuse me, that you created moms goes on. Um, could you, yeah. Could you, um, describe a little

bit about what that is and how these mothers are taking this program of service favorite place to be. So it's a six month program. And again, most everyone's starting it. It doesn't really matter how old their children are. Some have grown children, some have little children, some have grandchildren. It doesn't matter how long it was since their spouse passed. For some, they're ready really early on. For some, it's been years. So none of that really matters, but it's widows from mostly the US and Canada, some other countries coming together to support one another and learning how to change whatever it is that they want to change in their lives. And most widows that I know don't know other widows, their age especially. They usually are feeling pretty

isolated and don't really believe that anyone understands them. And also, we're so misinformed about grief as a culture because we're buying into a lot of the grief nonsense or the outdated ideas about grief, then we tend to think that the problems that we're experiencing, we tend to internalize them and make them problems about us. And so one of the things I love about the group is that when you come together and you see other women and we normalize the common struggles, we can stop making them mean that there's something wrong with us and we can start making progress faster, right? We can start seeing, oh, that's not just, that's not like a personality flaw or that's

not a me thing. That's a grief thing. yeah and i see my story in her and and and then then we go from there but it's a lovely program it's and i do it in a cohort model which i also love which is that instead of starting a new group and then everybody goes through it in exactly the same way i start a new small group at the top of every month and then at the end of the month one group is completing and i love that because there's always this nice balance in the group of women who are just starting right so they get a lot of attention and love, but then women who have been there for a while, which is really

nice because you can look to them for inspiration and they're also very encouraging. And then I started this program in November of 2019. I still have original members who never left. They just loved it so much. We created a master's program. It really is. You can kind of fall in love with the community and the coaching. And so it's also really nice to have those women still on the calls and still in the online space and, you know, being really supportive and being examples of what is possible for everyone else. I mean, some of them came in not really imagining how they could possibly be okay again. And now they're doing things that they never even imagined that they would be, you know, starting businesses and starting nonprofits and like total career

changes and, you know, new relationships and just all sorts of things that are really inspiring to watch well that's the growth there I love it I can't believe I get paid for this sometimes Celeste like you know what but you this was such a tragedy but it's almost like I mean you're just you're giving you're this example of all of these things so it's beautiful you know someone could come and look at your story and look at your life first of all forget about everybody else and just like, wow, look what she's doing with her life. Look who she's inspiring. Look who she is supporting. And I think that that's amazing. And I think our personal stories can really, you know, bring such value to other people. And that's what you're doing. You're bringing

a community together. That's what I hope is that, you know, people will see just like, just like me and not that my life is perfect. It's definitely not. I'm still a human and I still have lots of challenges and trials and all the things. But just to know that we don't have to buy into that resignation story. We actually can keep creating no matter what happens to us in life. And I think that's an important thing. And I love that by doing that for ourselves as moms, we can also set that example for our children. And the ripple effect that that has in the world. Every time a client tells me a story about something they've learned that they then taught their child. And then sometimes they'll tell me stories about how then their

child goes on to teach it to a friend. And it's just my brain breaks, right. Of like the ripple that, that we can make in the world. It's like, it's so awesome. Well, and I think it's important to that. I, I believe when women come together, we're unstoppable and it doesn't have to be just and grief, right? I was talking to a girlfriend the other day and I'm like, why is that? Why do women break each other down? Why? And when we come together, like, forget about it. Anything can, we can move water. I mean, it's really that powerful. And I love that you're taking this type of community. I mean, I think there should be others and more, but women coming together, I mean, it, it takes a tribe anyway to raise a child, children, you know? And I think that

if you're giving tools in this program to help them just go through life, navigate life, but in such a way that they could never see that's phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's what I think we all want too, is it's not just that we want to do a program and then, you know, experience the changes that are in the finite bounds of that program. But it's like, we want to know that we can go forward after that is over. That's what I try to do too, is let me position someone so that she's ready for whatever challenges come to her next. Right. And it doesn't create a dependency on the coach or the community, but she is in a position where she understands how her mind works. She understands how to relate to her thoughts and her feelings, and she understands how

to support herself, right. And solve her own problems. And she feels confident and capable in doing that. And there's value for, for, for women in any coaching container, if that's the end goal. Yeah, that's for sure. Um, so with, I mean, do you coach differently based on if somebody does have children versus not like, um, I shouldn't say the grief process, but just for example, just for the show, um, Mary is ready to start dating again. Uh, she does not have children. I mean, is there a difference in when you're raising someone, like you said, a new experience, right? You're used to having a co-parent and then that they're no longer there. I mean, is there a different process that you would, that you would, um, go through with Mary if

she did not have children or do you, I mean, in my group, everyone does have children because that's just part of my group. But, but when I'm talking to, you know, when I'm doing public calls or, you know, larger workshops or things like that, I just, I just coach whatever is brought to me. Okay. Right. So what I find is that, you know, some, someone who does have children and they are young and live at home typically will, will bring me something different as it relates to dating compared to someone who doesn't have children. So it's not that I teach them different things. It's just that they bring me different things. And so by the nature of it, then the coaching matches. That makes sense. So your, your six month program, um, like you said,

you bring it, you bring in the newbies with people that have been in the program for some time. When you say six months, does that mean like it's a graduation kind of program? It's a step-by-step program. Can you just explain that? We do. I'm big on, yeah, I'm big on, on tools and the application of tools. So it's super simple. Every week we give them two or three short videos that I have created that teach the tool or concept that we're working on. They will watch those videos. We mail them a workbook every month. It has a worksheet every day. You watch the video, you fill out the worksheet. So a lot of that, that the progress can be made really just on your own schedule. And then I provide coaching calls and coaching in an online community to

address whatever questions they might have, struggles they might have, or just anything that happens that they want coaching on. It doesn't have to be limited to the workbooks. Um, and so, you know, the, the, the structure and foundation is there to work through the major challenges that most widows face and accomplish, you know, the kind of the promise of the program, but then also we're coaching on anything, right? I mean, yesterday I was coaching somebody, she yelled at her three-year-old and she was feeling very guilty about that. And another woman, you know, her teenage daughter had told her that she was cutting and, uh,

you know, she was kind of freaking out about that. And then somebody else had a crazy experience with their mother-in-law, you know? So it's just the coaching is whatever it needs to be. The tools, the tools are kind of in the background as the baseline of the program. And then I'm a big proponent of tapping. So I also bring in a tapping coach every two weeks, my personal tapping coach, and we use tapping as well. So we're, it's a combination of like top down cognitive work and bottom up emotional work. What's tapping? I've heard of it, but I'm not quite sure. I love tapping. It's also called emotional freedom technique EFT. And it's something I've

been using for, ah, my daughter's 19. And I know I was using it when she was at least two, because I remember bedtime meltdowns, um, where I would help her by tapping, but basically it is, some people call it emotional acupressure. Okay. It is using acupressure points in the body to calm the nervous system and turn off your stress response. You can use it for processing emotions. You can use it for shifting beliefs. But to me, I use it most for processing emotion. So when emotion is so intense that I can't think well enough to solve my own problems, I will tap. And it's very simple to do. There's nine pressure points that you tap on. You're literally just touching parts of your body as you're talking about whatever it is that's

bothering you. And you will notice that it just kind of melts away. It's been approved as a treatment for PTSD by the veterans administration. You'll see a lot of professional athletes and Olympians tapping before their sport. People use it to process past trauma and take the emotional charge out of things. It's, it's, you can go to the tapping solution is a brilliant app. Okay. I highly recommend it. I have no affiliation with it, but I love the people who created it, the Ortner's it's a two brothers and a sister, and they've written a lot of books and it's very accessible. Anybody can use it. Anybody can learn to do it. It doesn't require a coach. And oh my gosh, just to have that, it has helped me so many times. And I use it all the time.

Thank you for sharing that. I think that's a great, great with kids. It's so great. Like we used to just tap when, you know, my kids were literally melting down at bedtime or, or anxious about something, I would actually tap on them and we would just use, let it go, let it go. Right. Let it go. And we just tap, let it go, let it go. And it would calm them right down. That's amazing. Okay. I have to try that. I have my daughter's anxiety forever. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, I think this is something that might work well. Um, and you can do it inconspicuously too. You don't have to use all the nine points. Like you can just tap on like the collarbone point is very inconspicuous or side of hand. I call it the karate chop point that when you can

just kind of do under the desk, right. Nobody even knows that you're doing it and you're calming yourself. Right. It's almost like you're, you're focusing on another point of your, in your body or yeah. So I'll look it up. You don't have to go into it, but yeah, look it up, check it out. Um, what advice can you give to those people that come to you or what advice do you give when they say, I will never love again. So why even try? This is like, you know, I was so in love with my spouse and I'll never be that person. I'll never love that love again. So why even go down that road? Yeah. One of the things that I am always trying to do is to help a person separate themselves from their thinking. I'm trying to help them see that there are thoughts and there

are thinkers and they are not the same and they are the thinker of their thoughts. And so when we are really diffused with a thought like I'll never love again, it doesn't feel like a thought. It feels like truth. It feels like objective fact. And so it's not that we need to change that thought necessarily. It's always up to the person whether or not they want to believe new things. But I see one of my primary jobs as a coach is to help them diffuse from their thoughts so that they can start to see their thoughts as optional, right? They can see the impact of keeping a thought like I'll never love again and what that might create in their lives so that if they don't like what it would create and they see themselves as the creator as opposed

to the thought that they can change it. That's a huge part of what I'm doing all six months in my program, right? Is going through the various areas of life. And I'm looking for places where they think what they're telling me is fact. And I can show them that it's thought it's story so that they can decide not because what they're thinking is wrong or bad or right or good, but just because it's optional and it's important. Right. And if they don't see it as something they can change, then they are limited to what they can change. Wow. That's huge. That's amazing. That really gives them like, I'm sure once they have that aha going through that, they're like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's like what, you know, when I believe that my best days were

probably behind me, I didn't know that that was an optional belief. I didn't know that that was separate from me. I thought that was just the truth that I didn't want to articulate. that it was probably just likely that I would never be that happy again. And when, when, when I could see it's, it's not, it's just a story. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and your story matters, but the, the, the thing that you are showing your clients are that there are other options. Yeah. You get to be the creator of your story. Your brain's going to throw you some patterned stuff and who knows where it got picked up and, and it, and it's definitely there in your brain. And also if it's not a move toward what you want

to create, you don't have to just keep recycling it. You are the chooser. You are the creator. You are the thinker. You get to be the boss of what you put in your brain and how you respond to what exists in your brain so that you can create what you want. Right. Right. Yeah. So So when did you decide that this was going to be a life change in your career? I, well, after I started getting coaching. So it was funny. I went, I went immediately back to therapy after Hugo died. So Hugo was my second marriage. So my first marriage went down in flames and I had, thank goodness, a great therapist. And so immediately I went back to her, spent quite a while just processing it, coming to terms with it, getting back to functioning. And then as one

does when a significant life loss happens, you kind of look around and go, am I doing what I want to do in this life? Like, am I, am I really doing what I want to do? And the answer for me was no, not really. We had both worked at the same company. I was, you know, in management and in aviation, we Learjet, we built planes, beautiful planes, but it wasn't, wasn't my dream or passion. And my therapist kept saying, you should become a therapist. I'll help you get into marriage and family therapy program. You can, you can come work for me. And then when I'm ready to retire, she had my future all planned out. You can buy my practice. So, so I was going to do that. I enrolled in a marriage and family therapy program. And at the same time, I was

waiting for that therapy program to start. And I had to get another undergraduate credit that I didn't have. So I had to wait basically nine months for that program to start. And at the exact same time I enrolled in a coaching program, didn't, didn't know anything about coaching, But it was literally six months in. I was like, okay, I think maybe I should be a coach as I work myself through therapy school. And then I started getting coached some more. And then eventually I came to the conclusion that I don't really want to be a therapist. I want to be a coach. These tools are moving the needle. No offense to therapy, but what I was getting out of that was not the same as the transformation I was experiencing in coaching. And so then I decided, okay, this is, this is where I really want to go is with coaching. And, you know, I certified and I quit my job and I just never looked back. That's it. Wow.

I love the fact that you took, you looked at your life though, right? Oh yeah. As significant as this life change happened. And you said, okay, is this how I want to live? And that was huge. I recently went back and read a journal entry that I had made about that. I used to write to Hugo after he died. That was kind of one of my ways of processing it. And I read this journal entry that I almost

didn't realize. I was 40 then. It's like it didn't occur to me that I could choose. I was so busy doing what I thought you were supposed to do and working my job and raising my kids and just doing the things I thought I was supposed to be doing that it literally did not occur to me until that journal entry that I actually could do something else like did you know you don't have to stay in this job if you don't like this job yeah right and the and the really weird part about it is that I could hear Hugo's voice in the back because he was like this you know engineer very science very math very logical very grounded I could hear him going don't do it coaching is a scam like you you know, that's crazy talk. Stay in your safe job. Like this doesn't make any sense. And, and I

literally had to go, okay, it's okay that he would think that it's okay. Right. And because it wouldn't be for him, but it, but maybe it's for me, you know, and maybe I need, maybe this is my time to choose what's best for me next. Yeah. And that wasn't easy to do really, but I'm so glad I did it. Yeah. Do you mean it wasn't easy actually listening to yourself say, okay, maybe this is something I wanted to do? Yeah, because it was so scary, right? Nobody in my world knew what coaching was. I barely knew what coaching was, right? I mean, you go to school, you get a degree, you choose the path that seems safe. And so I was so worried about other people's judgment. I was so worried that I would fail and you know, what would they think? And then I had to, I had to

do a lot of leaning into letting myself choose new ways of seeing what was possible for me and possible for my future. And that was really scary. Really scary. Yeah. It is definitely scary. Yeah. You have a path, go to college, get your goals, going to do this, going to do this. And then you're like, oh, I don't really necessarily. I'm just going to blow that all up and start over with something new that may or may not work. And I don't really know. So, you know, nobody knows what it is and it's completely unregulated industry that's in its infancy. Right. And all the people in my world were like, what are you doing? Are you sure? We love you. This is your path. What? Yeah, it is my path. It is my path. I know that now.

Yeah. That's amazing. Um, okay. Well, what do you feel are some of the biggest challenges you have found when a client comes to you and says, okay, I am going to start dating again. Would you give them, what do you feel that maybe the top three biggest challenges for them would be? Such a good question. Top three biggest challenges. So if they aren't really firm in their kind of sense of self, I will notice that one of their challenges is kind of a tendency to be a chameleon. And instead of, you know, deciding that this is what I want and what I want is out there, they will kind of make and mold themselves into what they think they need to be to adapt to what is presented to them. In other words, they will settle. Interesting. Yeah. For something

that isn't what they want. So I definitely see that. I will definitely see avoidance of things that require bravery or courage. So difficult conversations. So when you know that the relationship isn't what you want, but you, you know, that it's going to be an uncomfortable conversation that you have to have. I will see people really, you know, get, get all angsty about that and, you know, not want to have that conversation and just make it so much harder than it needs to be to have that conversation. And I think too, that we can get lost in the, I don't know bit I see that a lot too which is you know I don't know how and I don't know where and I don't know and and getting ourselves out of the I don't know is is important right because it's just such

a it's such a dream killer whether it's dating or career or whatever yeah but I see that a lot too as well I don't know um okay well what if you did know you know what's one small thing you could do today that would help you yeah so you really dating challenges and there's yeah you know yeah yeah that's a whole nother thing too right is is um say you are date newly with someone and then when do you introduce the children how is that how do the children react to that yeah there's i see a lot of women also judging themselves for when their brain compares the person that they're dating to the person that they lost, they tend to judge themselves for that, right? And make it mean something like, well, I'm not going to be successful in dating or I'm not going to be able

to find another relationship because every time I'm with this new person, my brain brings me something about the other person as opposed to just letting that be a normal thing that the brain does. It's fine. It doesn't matter. It's not a problem. It's comparison. Just brains like to compare. It doesn't mean that this person isn't somebody you really want to be with. It doesn't mean that you're never going to move forward. You know, it doesn't mean anything unless we decide that it does. And so we get lost in a lot of that unnecessary judging of what is a very normal brain thing. Got it. Yeah. I mean, I do it even in another relationship I'm comparing. Oh, yeah, that's very normal. Yeah. Or how do I work in, like, especially if you had kids with,

with, you know, your person and then they died, you're not going to want to just never talk about your person anymore. You know, the, the person that you were married to that died, you want to still bring them into the daily life and you want to still tell stories and have their photos around because they are still your children's parent, other parent. Right. And how do you work that into a new relationship? And how do you, how do you make sure that if that's important to you, that the new person that you're with respects that and appreciates that and helps you make space for that and isn't threatened by it. Right. Because a lot of people are threatened by it. that's so crazy to me. That's a big part of your life and your experience. I mean,

it just shows their emotional intelligence is not where it needs to be. And you're just, yes. Yeah. So that would be a big red flag. I imagine. Right. Because you don't want to forget a huge red flag. Yeah. I mean, and that's another thing. Tell stories. Exactly. That was, that, that was your person, whether you had children or not, It's a, still something that you went through. Right. And that's totally normal. And why is not all of our life experience, you know, okay. It doesn't mean anything about whoever we're dating now. Right. Well, lots of challenges I imagine. So, I mean, we could go on and on and on about that, but I guess I'm sure we could, I guess what I'm really taking away from that is

really get getting them into a healthy place with the new person who they are without this finding out who they are getting them sense of you know sense of security and confidence and it's okay to be like this and then moving forward whatever that is for them yeah who do who do i want to be who do i choose to be and knowing that you know your brain if you've been with a person for a significant amount of time your brain has encoded the we-ness of that experience and we do some time for our brain to relearn that we're no longer a we right and make some space for you know the idea that we might not have had a vision of our future without that person and that might be harder to create that vision of what we want in life going forward when that

person isn't there because it's it's so different than what we thought we were going to get but it definitely can be done and it's work worth doing yeah for sure yeah well do you do you think that it would be easier if a widow were to date a widow do you think that that's very common i have seen a lot of success there but i also think it's highly dependent upon the individual person right i have seen it work well in that they at least usually understand the loss aspects and the co-parenting and the, you know, if they're young children, you kind of on the same page there, but just like anything, you know, just because someone lost their spouse doesn't mean they're the kind of person that's right for you. So, you know, buyer beware a little bit of those

widow sites. And there's a lot of people parading as widowers, sadly, because they, they believe widows will be more interested in them. And, you know, you got to be careful people. Definitely. there really are true story be careful be careful be careful right yeah yep um well on that on the dating side there's just one last question i have out of curiosity i ask every guest looking back what was your favorite date and what was it what was my favorite date okay so are we talking about with the person I'm with now or with Hugo any anything and and it's basically just to find out a little bit about what why that meant something to you oh wow I think one of the ones that stands out for me was an axe throwing date oh fun

and i think that's why as because it was just something i had never done before and it was interesting and different and you know an opportunity to to be silly and to to do a terrible job and laugh at each other um yeah my current partner who i've been with now for for a couple of years that was one of the early dates that we went on and that jumps out as as memorable and fun. It's so interesting. You say that because usually first dates, I always tell clients to go do something just fun, different. Maybe you've never done it before. I don't typically say dinner or drinks, go do an activity. So I think that really takes away, takes like pressure off. And it's like, you're doing something that just regardless,

you're going to have fun or just be silly. Like you said, you're going to have fun. And you can kind of see like, what is it, especially if it's new to the other person too, how do they deal with adversity and newness and can they be okay, you know, being in beginner's mind and like being playful and do they have that energy and spirit that, that, that you are looking for, you know, so much can be revealed by a person. Oh yeah. Great. I love it.

Such a good question. Thanks. um so how can the audience here look you up and find out more information or join the program or just find out who you are yeah so i also have a podcast it's called the widowed mom podcast and i like to think even though it's obviously very niched in title it's really useful for anyone who wants to learn about grief or who wants to support someone else in grief. So for sure they can go there. And then coachingwithkrista.com forward slash grief support will also take them to a podcast quiz that they can take, especially if they're going through

grief right now. And basically you just take the quiz because there's so many episodes of the podcast. Sometimes it's hard to know where to start. They take the quiz and we'll send them an email that gives them some ideas of what episodes might be most useful first. And then everything is that coaching with Krista pretty much. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you taking the time and I hope everyone learned something from you today and happy new year. Oh, likewise. Likewise. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast, Celeste. Thanks so much, Krista. You're welcome. If there's anything I can do, let me know. I appreciate it. Okay. Okay. Bye-bye. Take care.

Bye. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Come and hang out with me on Instagram at Celeste Moore image. Let me know your thoughts on today's episode because I always love hearing from you all. You can find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website, Celeste Moore.com. Okay. That's all for now.

I'll see you in the next episode. See you next time, friends. Thank you.