Moore Style - How to Elevate Your Sex Life with Dr. Kate Balestrieri

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

Have you ever wondered how truly to elevate your sex life and navigate the tricky dynamics of desire in today's world? In today’s episode, we are joined by certified sex therapist Dr. Kate Balestrieri for an episode around sexual communication, consent, and sex education! Join us as Kate shares practical tips to improve your sex life including ways to give constructive feedback after a sexual experience, the opt-in or opt-out approach, and ways to communicate your sexual needs and desires – because a healthier sex life starts with communication! This conversation is a reminder that expanding your pleasure potential improves not only your sex life but your life in general. Tune in and then tag us with your biggest takeaway on Instagram @celetemooreimage. In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:32] About Dr. Kate Balestrieri [02:21] What inspired Kate to specialize in sex therapy [05:08] Effective communication techniques for couples to express their sexual needs and desires [07:57] Using the “sandwich method” for giving constructive feedback [11:08] Scheduling in time for the “possibility” of sex  [12:52] Women are more depleted than men [17:28] The most common psychological & emotional barriers that prevent people from their pleasure potential [21:01] Why men often get stuck in isolation  [24:27] The importance of consent and setting boundaries [28:02] Taking an opt-in or opt-out approach [33:39] What is the relationship between physical, mental, emotional, and sexual health? [35:45] Using sex as a coping strategy for stress [39:52] How can better education impact sexual satisfaction and safety? [42:10] Teaching children about consent and boundaries  [45:01] The positive and negative impact of technology on sexual intimacy    Connect with Kate: Website Instagram TikTok YouTube

Welcome to the down and dirty podcast, the ultimate guide to modern midlife dating. I'm your host Celeste Moore and I'm here to help you navigate the challenges of today's dating world. Think of me as your female version of hitch but better with over 16 years of experience as a certified image consultant and dating coach. I've got the inside scoop on what women want. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the world of healthy masculinity and modern dating. It's a fast changing industry. And here you'll find personal stories, expert insights

and candid conversations that will empower you to take control of your dating life. There's never been a better time to achieve your desired outcome, whether it's marriage, finding a significant other, securing a life partner or simply regaining your dating confidence. We're here with you twice a week to explore the viewpoints and challenges in today's dating arena that resonate with every man seeking dating success and love. So let's dive into today's episode. We've got an exciting discussion lined up for you. Get ready for the double D's of dating where dating dilemmas turn into dating triumph. welcome everybody to another episode of the down and dirty podcast as always i'm your host celeste

moore have you ever wondered how truly elevate your sex life and navigate tricky dynamics of desire in today's world well dr kate balistreri is here to unveil the answers on today's episode I'm super excited to bring on my guest today. She is the top expert in her field. Her name is Dr. Kate Balistrieri. She is a licensed psychologist, certified sex therapist, the founder of Therapy Practice Modern Intimacy, and the host of Get Naked with Dr. Kate podcast. Welcome, Dr. Kate. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk with you. yes and i know everybody here their favorite topic is anything sex related and i know you know this is a you breathe eat and you know eat this all day long yes i'd love to kind of know just a little bit about you more could you share us what inspired you to specialize in sex therapy and what has been the most rewarding part of your journey so far?

Yeah, of course. Well, I think when I first got into this field, my focus was really more in forensic psychology. So what that means is that my clinical practice happened along the intersection of where field of psychology meets the legal system in some way. So I did a lot of work working with folks who were incarcerated. And specifically, I worked with sexually violent persons.

So people who had been convicted of some sort of sexually based offense. That sounds like an SVU intro. But many years during evaluations and treatment and expert witness testimony, helping the courts and helping the folks incarcerated figure out just how much of a risk it was to reincorporate them back into society. So when I got really burnt out working in prisons, because when you work in a prison, you are in a prison all day, it can really take a toll on you. And I started really recognizing just how little support and how little appropriate funding there was for a lot of the rehabilitation that needed to happen. So I started to feel that burnout and I moved more into private practice and decided over time to really specialize in sex therapy because working with sexually violent persons, I realized just how wonky people's relationship with sex can be and how difficult it can be to move from a place of pain or disconnection with sex to a place of neutrality and or and hopefully thriving. and pleasure. So a lot of my work now really helps, really focuses on helping people identify their pain points or their disappointment points in their sex lives and figure out how they can

move to a place where sex is something really meaningful or as meaningful as they want it to be and is something that helps them connect with their vitality and their pleasure and their creativity and gives people a right-sized relationship with sex. And that's for each person I love your journey that's very like you've got you were able to see so many different sides of the spectrum and kind of fill in the holes of like okay maybe I need to focus more on this side of it and yeah I can imagine getting burnt out in a prison I've never been I know that my best friend did a lot of her training in law that way but yeah that's got to be definitely an easy burnout after a while. Yeah. Yeah. So in your experience, what are some effective communication

techniques that just say, like, let's focus on maybe couples for a couple questions, just because I know a lot of couples come to me, which I clearly am not educated in this field. So I guess communication techniques that some couples can use to express their sexual needs or desires more clearly? Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that maybe are fairly, I hesitate to use the word universal, but I'll say fairly safe strategies to employ. One is set yourselves up for success. And what I mean by that is have a conversation when you're both in the right headspace for this conversation. So maybe not when you're rushing around taking the kids to school, or if you're trying to plan a vacation and you've got limited time to get your tickets or you're going to work

or you're in between meetings, like really be thoughtful about when do we have not only the time, but the capacity for this conversation? Because the capacity issue, I think, is what gets folks in trouble a lot because you can squeeze in 10 minutes or five minutes here and there. But if you're not in that headspace, you're probably going to catch one another off guard. and that's when you're more likely to get defensive and sort of lose the point with one another. So, you know, I might say to my partner something like, hey, I'd really love for us to have a chat about different ways we can be creative in the bedroom. Is that a conversation that you're interested in having? And if so, what's good for you this week? And then I would

figure out like what's good for me too. We could find a time. I don't recommend having the conversation when you're having sex because then you're really in it. One, it can take you out of the moment, but two, like, oh, you know, talk about vulnerability. It's better to have it after you've had sex or at a different time. Another thing I would say is to practice debriefing with each other regularly. And the kink community is great at this, right? Debriefing is a huge part of the cycle of BDSM and kink and really intentional. You know, debriefing gives us the opportunity to reflect on what was good

and what maybe could be different next time or what didn't land. And when you get in the habit of debriefing with each other, it's a lot easier to hear that constructive feedback because it's not such an isolated piece of feedback, right? You get used to like, this is just us talking about what worked and what didn't work. and it becomes less about you're not satisfying or this didn't work for me and therefore I feel

a certain way about it. It just sort of normalizes the practice of evaluating how to have the best sex you can have. Yeah, you made such a great point. I like that idea of debriefing. Can you explain maybe or just give an example of a statement that you would say to your partner after without feeling shame? I don't want to say shameful, but like you, they didn't perform well, or just say if something was off, how would you say that to your partner without feeling defensive? Well, every partner has different vulnerabilities and different sensitivities. So I would say be mindful of those potential tender spots in your partner. But I'm a big fan of the sandwich method, meaning I like to sandwich a piece of constructive feedback with two things that I really

appreciated or liked or went well for me. So I could sound like, I am so excited that you tried a new position. I love when you do that. Please more. Thank you. Like, let's keep with the new positions. The position that we tried today, though, I noticed that I felt this way when we were in it. And it kind of took me out of the mood a little bit. So maybe next time we could try this or this or put a pillow under my hips or do this instead. Let's see if we can tweak it and go for the sensation that we're both looking for. And I'm so grateful that you did this thing or like that felt really good and just kind of like weave it into the conversation about what was awesome and and maybe what could be more pleasurable in the future. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah,

because if you're starting off, you know, raising your partner for the things that felt good or the things that worked well for you. And then it's not as like, oh, well, could we try something like this instead of going right at it and someone feeling upset? Yeah. Yeah. And also ask for feedback, right? If you're vulnerable, hey, what did you like? What did you think about when I did that thing with my tongue or when I did this thing with my hand? How did that work for you? I like saying to a partner, you're not going to hurt my feelings. Like give it to me straight. I want to know what works for you because every body is different and every body in different mood states is different. So what felt good today might not feel good tomorrow and

that's okay. And you suggest this after. Yes, after. Maybe if you're in sort of the ooey-gooey post-coital phase and maybe at another point in time after you've calmed down and you're back in your routine. Okay. I like that. Would you just on that little note, could you say if your partner is giving you oral pleasure, could you kind of guide them or only if they ask? Oh no, I think it's, it's really important for you to give feedback to your partner. So if they are doing something that's close, but no cigar, lead them to the cigar, right? Help them get to what feels good for you. And you can do that really diplomatically, really kindly. And sometimes partners may receive it really well. Some partners want you to be more direct. It's part of what

turns them on. So, you know, talk with each other about how can we give each other feedback in the moment that feels collaborative and like we're working toward the same goal here. Yeah. And you even mentioned like if you're both not in the same headspace or you're both in different you know one's turned on more than the other what would your advice for couples to lie in their sex lives or their sex drives and increase their frequency of sexual activity i mean if their goal is to increase the frequency then then that's that's right but i think sometimes it's more important to talk about the quality of the sex that they're having instead of the quantity. I think a lot of people get really stuck in this quandary of, are we having enough

sex to mean that we are a healthy couple or to mean that we both like sex together? But life gets busy. And especially when you have kids or if you have kids or if you have parents that you take care of or a company that you're running or work that's really busy, whatever, it's hard to align your schedules all the time. So if frequency is the goal, then certainly you can look at your calendars together and try to find more opportunities to, I would say, create the opportunity for sexual intimacy, but I would not schedule it as a definitive thing that needs to happen. Then when you make it an obligation, it's probably going to lose desire potential for one or both partners. But you can schedule things. I'm a big fan of like scheduling in time for the

possibility of sex and then really in that moment together cultivating that energy to help you create the tension and the desire and the erotic excitement that will bring you together but it can take some time if you're running running running to sort of commute yourself into a headspace where you can be receptive to desire yeah i just see in a heteronorm relationship there's such a feel that there are such a spirit you know disparage of like sex drive from a man and a woman and especially as you know i'm a mother and i run a business like all of those things that we're handling it takes a lot more for us to get out of our head and get into that space of you know feeling sexual feeling that desire versus i feel that a lot of men that i speak to

at least are like, you know, that's enough. I don't get it enough. Or, you know, it's this constant like misalignment, if you will. Yeah. Oh, to be a man and to have that be your biggest worry. I think there's a couple of things that I just want to highlight about that. One, you're totally right in the sense that this is a really common dynamic in heterosexual partnerships, but it's not biological truth that women or people in female bodies have lower sexual desire than people in male bodies. It is, however, the result of a tremendous amount of conditioning around gender. So a lot of men have different access to their desire because they are unburdened by a lot of the things that women are burdened by in our society. And what I mean by that specifically are

inequities in emotional labor, domestic labor, hermeneutic labor. All of that's very draining and consuming from a mental energy perspective and a physiological energy perspective with women. So, you know, they're getting depleted more than men because of the way society has structured gender roles and all of the inequities in this different labor. So when I hear men saying things like, I don't get enough sex from my partner. First of all, sex is not something you get or give, right? So let's maybe move away from thinking about sex as this commodity that your partner is withholding from you. I'm immediately curious about what are you doing to help your partner have enough bandwidth for sex? And also what are you doing to create a climate of erotic energy

between the two of you. Because I find that partners who struggle in this way, they sort of take this learned helplessness approach where it's like, well, I'm not getting what I want and I don't know what to do and this sucks and I don't like it and so I'll just wait for my partner to have time for me or I'll wait for my partner to have desire. And that passivity, that helplessness just increases the chasm between the two of them. Because time and time again, the lower desire partner would benefit from some support, things being taken off their plate, different kind of flirtation or initiation style, you know, feeling more of a priority and a presence from their partner. And when partners can sort of realign their relationship in that way, you'd be surprised

how great their sex lives can be. Oh, yeah. I definitely know so many women that have high sex drives but it's like you said it's the you know them having too much responsibility or their partner not taking on some of those responsibilities yeah that traditional rules if you will that's not helping not and it may not even be what's happening in your relationship right a lot of guys will get really defensive when they hear me talk about this in the world women are are demanded to sort of step in with more emotional responsibility and relational responsibility. So even outside your relationship, she's sort of getting bombarded with that too. So it's not just about the two of you, but often what happens between the two partners can sort of amplify that bigger picture.

Yeah, that's a great insight. And I think people listening here can, if you're in a relationship or know in your future relationship, that it's really important to help your partner so that you both are equal because that just makes everything better equal and sexual relationships and home relationships and you know all of the things that can really add pressure to that you know not feeling sexual at the moment because you're full of life and too many things going on so would love to know what are some most common psychological or emotional barriers that you encounter in your practice that prevent people from achieving fulfilling sex lives? And how can they address these barriers? Yeah. One of the biggest things that keeps people at a distance

from their pleasure potential is shame. Shame about what they like, shame about who they are, shame about who they love, and also the fear that comes with that shame. If this is true about me, or if I am found out about this or if I really like this thing and I'm not just sort of confused, then what does it mean about my safety in this world or my relationships or how I'll be treated? So I think shame and fear are really big barriers for a lot of folks. And how do you address it? Well, one, I think really maintaining a culture of sex positivity as you think about your own sex life and other people's. So that doesn't mean you have to like every kind of sex, and it doesn't mean you have to do things you don't want to do. In fact, I would encourage you not to. It doesn't

mean that you have to try everything, right? But sex positivity really means maintaining a judgment and a shame-free position about what you like and what other people like, and really maintaining that humans are diverse, and so diverse interests and sexuality are to be expected, right? Diversity is the norm in what we like. And I think that's a really important to pay attention to. But also, you know, look at your groups. What are the groups that you belong to and what are the codes of conduct in those groups? Do you fit in that group or might you want to consider finding some other communities with people who have some similar interests to you if you're worried about being ostracized from one community or another? Now, that sounds really simple, right? But a lot of

folks don't have the option of just walking away from their family of origin, for example, where they fear they might be judged if they are truthful about something sexually or romantically that's important to them. So I think it's about reorganizing your boundaries and really thinking about how do you practice discernment in terms of who gets to know what parts of you, and then really finding other community or partners that you are willing to be vulnerable with and who are like-minded so that they will be more accepting. And that's pretty healing, pretty healing when you find those folks. Yeah. I think there's so many resources now today that I want to say even 15 years ago did not exist. And you make so many great points. It's just, you know, first of all,

being comfortable with who you are, owning it, and then surrounding yourself with those like-minded individuals because that's truly is going to you'll be able to open up more explore that more even if it's in conversation you know maybe it's different ideas going back and forth it's just yeah that's important to really surround yourself with those said like like-minded individual yeah i do think also that surprisingly i found this is such a we talk about women feeling shame for so many reasons. And I know that's much more common with us. And it's actually really sad. But I've also found that there's so much shame with men. And I think that surprised me more than anything. And I don't know why. I know stuff happens. I know there's

insecurities. There's people that do bad things to men as well. But I felt that it just wasn't talked about as much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think socially there is a lot for the system of patriarchy to gain by denying men's vulnerability and the hard things that have happened to them and really emphasizing women's vulnerability and amplifying and talking a lot about the hard things that have happened to them, right? This is one of the ways that patriarchy really messes with men and deprives them of their full humanity because of course men get victimized or of course men feel insecure about their bodies from time to time. Of course men feel hurt and rejected in relationship and those feelings ought to be considered valid and they should be able to

have people hold space for that, right? But I think part of what happens for a lot of men is exactly what you said like they're sort of quieted away from being vocal about what their pain is because to to be someone who experiences pain is to be someone who is perceived to be weak you know in this sort of hierarchical mind so i think a lot of men get really stuck there and they have to isolate and just sort of stay with their experience or shut it down internally and and that means they don't get the help that they need often they don't feel as connected with their partner with other men as they would like. And it's a lonely life. Yeah. I'm not sure how, but men seem to want to tell me things. And I love that. I really feel honored to have a space

where they're just, they open up in any way that they feel is comfortable. And I had a client of mine who obviously it's just, this is just a story. There's no name. He explained to me that he had told his wife about when he was young that he was sexually abused by his mother's boyfriend and she had such a reaction to his story that he never opened up again to anybody because he felt so deep so rejected so hurt so shameful even more so he was a young boy and somehow some way we were having lunch and he tells me this story and I'm just like, oh my gosh, my heart just hurt for him because one time one person will ostracize him and then he completely shuts down. Yeah. Yeah. My heart breaks for him. And that's such a clear example of one of the ways that

sexism hurts men, right? By denying the right to be protected and to be cared for when they've and hurt. It really sucks. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, I just, you know, it just goes to show you that you don't know what any individual man or woman has gone through. And the communication is so important when, you know, engaging in sexual activities to make sure that this, this something is okay with the other person. And I, I really love the way that you spoke about the communications. I mean, it's not everything, but it's a lot of it. A lot. Yeah, it's a lot.

I guess on that note, could you just discuss the importance of consent and setting boundaries and sexual relationships and maybe offer a tip or a conversation on these topics? Yeah, it's funny you should mention that. I'm reading this really interesting book right now. It's called The Joy of Consent, A Philosophy of Good Sex by Manon Garcia, who is a French philosopher. And in it, she talks a lot about sort of the philosophy of consent and how and where the concepts of consent originated.

One of the things that she highlights in the book is that a lot of folks take sort of a legalistic approach to consent in which they compare the consent that we offer between two people in an intimate space with what consent law sends should be the permission so in other words consent law basically says if we consent to this now there's an obligation to perform to this contract right and and sexually between two people that's not the case right consent is a permission to engage so our bodies and our will and our emotions are dynamic and always changing and therefore the permission needs to be continuous and ongoing and repeatedly sourced right but i think a lot of people do unconsciously sort of think of it as like you've consented now we're

going to do the thing and that's it right but it would beckove us to move away from this like legalistic definition to a place of thinking about consent as a permission for good sex. Good sex in the sense that like when I'm checking in with my partner and they're checking in with me every step of the way, do you like this? Is it hot? Is this working for you? Can I do this? Can I try that? This is amazing, right? It creates this intimacy for one another. So it's, you know, less about, I would say, setting these rigid boundaries that can sometimes feel really like definitive and harsh and they can really kill the vibe, but are necessary, right? It's necessary to know each other's limits, but it's more about how can I reconceptualize what this idea of consent

means to me so that it's something that adds to our pleasure, it adds to our joy together, it adds to the erotic energy. And like just having that paradigm shift mentally is, I think, an important task for people. Like what's exciting here and what are we saying yes to affirmatively versus what's off limits and what am i holding back on maybe that's a really good look at and then i've never i don't it's always like okay this is a definite no or we're not doing this it's like this very you know these lines are crossing the sand but yeah like what are we doing that feels good and I mean I love that I love that spin on it if you will and I think it all leads back to again you know being very comfortable knowing that this hopefully this person is going

to just accept what you're saying and say okay yes like we're in a good space I can be vulnerable with you. I trust you. And so let's explore. Yeah. And there are different, there's so many different models of consent, but I think one thing to consider is, is do the two of you together take an opt in or an opt out approach? And what that basically means is if you're opting in, you're sort of getting consent at every juncture before you try something new, right? Can I try this yes okay then you go for it that's an opting in opting out is for some people sexier and more accessible than opting in but for other people it's the reverse opting out is basically saying let's decide what's off the table right sort of big picture and then everything else goes until

i say no i don't want that thing right so it gives you the permission to opt out of everything so couples that have been together for a long time might know each other's rhythm. They might have an understanding of what their partner's like. And it may be that they're sort of implicitly doing a bit of an opt out, like, no, not tonight. I'm not feeling anal. OK, fine. That's great. But any other point in time, maybe anal is on the board. And other people, especially folks who have had a history of sexual trauma or who may be exploring something new that their body is needing some time to adjust to, they may want to move more into an active opting in and a slower, more gradual incremental adjustment to whatever they're saying yes to. So I think it's important

to kind of talk with each other, with any partners that you have around like what feels better, what feels sexier. And I think you'll get to the same point, right? If you respect each other's boundaries. Yeah, that's another great point. I've never heard that before, the difference in the two and knowing that you can have both and you can try both and see what works for you. Yeah, that's really important. You know, I don't deal with a lot of couples. I deal with mostly guys that are looking to really jump into the dating world after a long-term relationship or maybe they just still haven't found the person for them.

So how do you bring a topic as such into a newer relationship? where you both are just you haven't started having sex or having sexual intimacy but you plan on it and is it more important to talk about this right up front what do you do with you don't scare someone away as well you know yeah there's so much subjectivity around people's comfort levels and also what turns people on but I think if you are a new partner or if someone's a new partner up for you, my recommendation would be to start with an opt-in approach, right? Ask before you do, check in before you just start on something, a new sexual activity, because even if they say to you, oh gosh, I'm fine with that, at least you've checked in. And if you aren't doing that first,

you run the risk of something feeling overwhelming or maybe them going into a freeze state and now there's been you know something that one or both of you regrets or even is injurious right psychologically physically but yeah i'm a huge fan of like talking about sex as early as both partners feel it's okay and that's different for everyone so if you're someone who for whom sex is really important and sexual compatibility is a higher priority in your relationship you might want to talk about those things earlier on to make sure that you do in fact have somebody in front of you who is either open to the same things or really likes the same things. If sex is not as big of a priority for you, you might not be so motivated to know what is super interesting to

someone or what's off limits. And you might be more open to organicity in your exploration with one another. So everyone's going to have a different rhythm. And I think when you're ready, you can bring it up and gauge your partner's pacing and their speed and their comfort. and then you work together to have the conversation when you're both ready or when you're all ready. Yeah. It's so tricky. That whole art, it's like, even if you, there's so many things in play and positive and this is great and this is great. And then it can be just say someone looks great on paper or everything matches up and you're like, okay, I'm attracted. Everything looks great and then the whole sex conversation can be completely off balance i've seen this

quite a few times too and i guess at least you know up front right yeah but maybe it it might be off balance but i might say there are a lot of couples with mismatched sexual interests that can find common ground and they can find play together that create enough satisfaction for them both to really help enhance what looks great and what feels great otherwise in the relationship yeah that's a great point too yeah i was speaking to a woman and who does the blueprint sexuality blueprint i think i said it 100 but she was talking how her and her husband were completely on different spectrums and they sound ways to come in and use where they could both try something and they ended up finding commonality so that they were able to have a

healthy sex life. So I think that's so cool. Yes. Yeah. I'd love to ask a little bit more on what is the relationship between overall health, physical, mental and emotional and sexual health? Like how can improving one benefit the other? Oh, I love this question. Well, there are so many benefits to sex that help enhance our capacity for emotional regulation or a sense of connectedness. But, you know, sex elicits all kinds of neurochemicals in the body, including oxytocin, dopamine, vasopressin, norepinephrine, serotonin. These are all of our feel-good chemicals, right? Endorphins. So it can be a great analgesic, analgesic, analgesic, I think, and good pain reliever. It can be great for reducing stress and helping with downregulating

an anxious nervous system. It can be great for all kinds of things because in the body, when we have a lot of stress, we start to build up cortisol and oxytocin in particular, which which we experience during things like pregnancy birth and also during breastfeeding or chest feeding we also experience during other kinds of skin-to-skin contact right so people of all biological sex and genders can experience this oxytocin in the body obliterates cortisol which is a huge unconscious motivator for a lot of folks who use sex as a way to regulate their stress or feel better or clear their mind for example it's usually what they're looking for so there's tremendous benefit. Being in touch with your sexuality and giving yourself permission to

really be sexual is a great way to stay connected to your own vitality, your own creativity, your own curiosity, offensive play, which as adults, we don't have a lot of space for. I love that. I mean, everything that you've said too is like mental, physical, emotional, and like sexual just encompasses it all and i love that so you just spoke about how some people use sexual or let's say orgasm to regulate stress do you think that that is and i've heard from other individuals in this field that this is like a bad thing or i don't want to say a bad thing i I'm really not being political here, but that it is something that can become an autopilot because of the way that you're using sex or stress level to bring down stress levels.

Yeah, I think if people have limited ways of coping with stress, then any of those limited coping strategies can become overused and we can become unhealthily dependent on them. But it doesn't really matter if we're talking about sex or playing Candy Crush or cooking or over-exercise, right? Like all of these things are good for us. And if it's the only thing we know how to do when we're stressed, then that unhealthy dependence on that substance or on that behavior can become problematic. But there are a lot of people, I would say most of us, in fact, have engaged in some sort of sex and have felt better. the afterward right so i would say it's not bad to use sex as a method of coping um but i wouldn't let it be your only method of coping because you just can't have sex all the time everywhere so

you might want to have a more expansive toolbox for coping yeah i do like that because when someone said that in this in the doctor sex space and i was like really because that's quite often my you know usage of or of masturbation you know it's like de-stress and for sleep I guess it's masturbation it's not with someone else so I think what they were referring to was you know if you just want to get to the orgasm for a quick you know release that that can really hinder relationships sexual relationships yeah look it's it's not for me or for anyone else to judge what happens between partners. If it's okay with both partners and they're both getting what they want and need from it, I would say more power to them. But what can happen a lot is that

one person is using sex as a form of external regulation or dyadic regulation. Basically what that means is they're using another person to regulate their nervous system. This often feels really objectifying and really uncomfortable because even though you're having sex with a partner, it might as well be like that partner is not even there, right? And like their body is being used for the purpose of pleasure. And if you've been on the receiving end of that, you know how uncomfortable that feels, right? And it can feel really intimacy impeding. So if that is the strategy, yeah, you might want to look at how is this affecting the connection that my partner and I have together, but it doesn't necessarily make it bad or wrong, right? Some people might

enjoy being objectified. People do. They might enjoy feeling like they're nothing. For a lot of folks, that kinky play is really meaningful to them. So I would say if it's conscious and there's consent around it and, you know, everyone knows what's happening and they're saying yes to it, it can be okay. But still, maybe, you know, develop some other coping strategies so that you don't need your partner's body to relax. Yeah. None of us are entitled to sex with another person and it can create a dependency and an entitlement that again can compete intimacy and that's where it can get dicey yeah that's definitely interesting there so yeah there's so many intricacies you know and i'm asking all different broad questions because i feel that

maybe just and you could probably talk for days so many different like areas of you know we didn't even touch BDSM or anything like that, but do you see that there's a gap in the current sexual health education and how can a better education impact sexual satisfaction and safety? I love this question so much. There are huge gaps in our sex education system in this country and probably worldwide, but definitely in America. And in my opinion, that's very intentional. The more agency people feel in their bodies and the more awareness they have of conversations about agency and boundaries and an egalitarian approach to pleasure, the more agentic they are in their lives in general. So we have a lot of silencing around sex education, which again, in my opinion,

is intentional to keep us in a place where we don't know our bodies well, we don't have as much autonomy and agency, we don't feel as much right, like we have as much right to pleasure. And when we keep people disconnected from pleasure and disconnected from agency, they make better worker bees out in the world. If you feel like you have to earn pleasure to be good enough, I'm going to keeping more dedicated to being in service of a cause outside of yourself, which can be great sometimes. But when we're talking about sex and talking about pleasure, politically, sex has been a weapon of control for a really long time, for centuries and centuries. So it's no different now. And the more we educate ourselves about sex and pleasure equity, the better our sex lives will be,

but also the better our lives will be. Yeah. I had brought this up to another sex therapist and he said, don't even get me started on this subject. This is, I can't like, so it was, it's okay to also say no to some of these questions, but I appreciate that viewpoint because it really does. The health education system has always kept us in this little box that works. So yeah, I like that we can voice what we want and who we are and have hopefully sexual healthy lives. Yeah. Well, the research is pretty clear that when you start providing sex education that is age appropriate with young children, which usually looks like just helping them recognize their anatomy and learning about basic touch consent. So an example I like to give

a lot is when young kids are around older relatives. They're often told to go give uncle so-and-so a hug or go give aunt so-and-so a kiss. And a lot of young people in their bodies really don't want to do that. It's scary. They don't know that person. They don't understand why they should have to hug them. And a lot of adults are trying to sort of save face and respect their elders and and so they encourage their kids like go and give uncle so-and-so or and so-and-so a hug or a kiss and and it's little ways like that that we teach people to ignore their own bodily boundaries and when we start with kids early and help them recognize that they can say no even to their parents right um parents often sort of unconsciously exhibit a lot of entitlement to

their children's bodies and i know it comes from a good place but it really messes with young people's bodies. So early, early education with children around sex and boundaries and physical space sets the stage for healthier communication and healthier boundaries as adults, not only sexually, but non-sexually too. And the research shows that early sex education and then consistently age-appropriate as people get older helps them reduce their STIs, reduce unwanted pregnancies, it helps them have more pleasure unshockingly unshockingly yeah you make such great points again thank you but yes it's I when my daughter was really young and three brothers and they adored my daughter but she was always really shy she'd like go around my leg and she just didn't

want to she knew her uncle she just didn't want to embrace them and I remember my sister being the you know, just do it, go do it, go do it. And I was like, you know what? It's okay. Just let her be. Like, I just felt like it was such a force and you're right. They learn from such a young age from us as parents and other individuals in this family. And that takes away their right to consent. Yeah. Yeah. And I really feel for a lot of parents. Like I remember the first time I heard that I was like, oh gosh, I know I've done that to young kids. Yikes. Right. So if you're identifying with that right now, it's okay to just do something different, right? Don't beat yourself up about it. Most of us have been conditioned in this way. So have the insights

we can do differently. Yeah. Yes, definitely. Yeah. What with the rise of technology and digital platforms, how has the landscape of sexual relationship changed and what should people be aware of to protect their sexual health? Oh, such a good question. I think there have been a lot of changes when people relate to each other from an emotional intimacy perspective as well as a sexual intimacy perspective since technology's really boomed with social media. A couple of positive things. People can meet people from all around the world now, so there are a lot of opportunities for connection, a lot of opportunities even just to make friendships If it doesn't turn into a love relationship or a sexual relationship, people are able

to have contact with more people at a faster clip. So if they're paying attention to themselves, they get to learn more and more about what they do like and what they don't like about different kinds of interactions so they can be more intentional in how they seek people out. I think it also gives us a lot of opportunity to get feedback and how people experience us. So the more we engage with people, the more we will learn. How do they read the answers to the prompts that we've left? What kind of rejection or compliment do we experience from that? Not that you need to change your prompts, but I think it just gives you a lot of feedback about yourself

useful but i think a big negative part of all the dating apps and social media is the way that our experience of intimacy is i'm so gamified and two-dimensional and we often forget that there's a human being on the other side of the avatar or on the other side of the profile and so we treat them in sort of this two-dimensional way that really makes them a stimulus for our own experience as opposed to a person with whom I can be relational right I think that's probably the biggest way that it's messed with us and we see that in a lot more people having FOMO meaning they are less likely to commit because what if I swipe again and somebody even better is there right so it's sort of perpetuated a lot of objectification because it

has like depersonalized us with each other in this in this gamification yeah it truly does it almost feels like you know i always relate this to a kid in a candy store it's like oh my gosh it's like oh i'll try this one i'll try this one and i'll try this one and you said it really does objectify the other person in 2d that's really so well said because when you get in front of that person if you ever do if you get past the the digital platform it it's almost like lost its luster no no same more yeah right same more what do you mean by that so I feel that if you actually get out of the digital platform and you go meet in person and you know there's kind of this hype right you made it past the 10 other candies so you must be really shiny and pretty or just using

for example or it looks really yummy then then the person meets and it's almost like oh well yeah i'm not sure or it kind of just it's almost like a bubble gets you know popped totally yeah it's really easy to idealize or devalue people right sort of split like they're either really amazing we have all these fantasies that can get projected on them or we sort of are like look no way jose right and quick to swipe left yeah there's just a couple people clients that experience lately they have this great even face time like dating that's been going on and and then finally meeting three four months later and then uh yes wasn't all that it was correct up to be and i'm like because you have a more of this fantasy and not the reality do you find that this

is something that you've at least had you know like something that's been addressed about this absolutely yeah you're so spot on i mean the longer that you go also interacting with someone in sort of this two-dimensional way the easier it is to project a fantasy onto them because you don't have a lot of real life data to compare to you don't know who they are in reality you just know who they are in this exchange so it's way easier to make up a story about how great they are and they're the answer to all your problems in life but inevitably right humans are wildly imperfect all of us so being in reality with someone can be a real buzzkill if you've built them up in your mind as someone different yes so please like if you have everything you know this

someone that you would like to meet, meet within a week? Well, I mean, figure out what feels realistic for you, but depending on if you're long distance, right, it might not be so easy to meet in person way. But if it is, yeah, I would definitely recommend meeting them sooner rather than later so that you can get a sense of who is this human in reality and who am I when I'm with them. And how do I feel about all of that? I love that. Well, I appreciate this conversation. Is there anything that is pressing in your life that you would love to talk about or anything happening? Or is there something that you would really love to talk about that I didn't ask you? I mean, no, your questions are so incredible. I really appreciate the artfulness

and how you host. Thank you. Yeah, I don't think that there's anything super pressing that we haven't already talked about. I think the only thing just going on for me is that, as you mentioned earlier, I own a practice called Modern Intimacy and I feel really grateful for my team and we just keep expanding. So now we're offering therapy in nine states and we offer it virtually. And then we have some pretty great coaches that work internationally with folks. So we are constantly evolving as a group practice and taking in a lot of the concerns and the questions that you've brought up today and helping folks. So I would say if anyone's interested in that, they can find us at modernintimacy.com. And otherwise, yeah, I think that's sort of it. Yeah. Well, go check

the website out if you're interested. And again, thank you for coming on the show today. And thanks everybody for tuning in. Keep exploring, keep loving and remember a healthier sex life starts with a conversation. Until next time. Bye for now. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to support podcasts like ours, then please hit that subscribe button, leave a five star rating and or invite others to listen. Your support is what helps us grow and continue to bring you valuable content. Thanks for hanging out with us on today's episode. Let's stay connected. You can find me on Instagram at Celeste Moore image, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on today's discussion. For all the links, resources and

additional information mentioned in this episode, check out the show notes on my website, celestmore.com. That's all for now, but stay tuned for our next episode where we'll dive into more exciting topics. Until then, see you next time, friends.