Moore Style - Key Components of Successful Dating with Garin Flowers

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

We all know that dating has its challenges but our guest today reminds us of how fun and successful it can be when you have the right tools! Garin Flowers, entertainment reporter and stand-up comedian, joins us today for a conversation around romantic date ideas, the pros and cons of dating checklists, and why men need to leave a little bit of mystery to build a stronger connection. Garin also reminds us to be careful about the ways we talk about dating because our words manifest into our reality.  Whether you are struggling with dating, want to spice up your long-term relationship, or want tips to make your dating life more successful, this is a conversation that everyone can benefit from! In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:33] About Garin Flowers [03:06] How to get cast on The Bachelorette [08:19] Romantic date ideas [13:09] Leveling yourself up in life [17:12] What are some key components of successful dating? [20:41] The pros and cons of dating lists  [26:05] Getting to know someone before sleeping with them [28:43] Leaving a little bit of mystery [32:56] Women pursuing men is a turn-on [35:28] Why are people still ghosting? [39:15] Being a “master first dater” and building genuine connections [43:13] Great first-date ideas [47:33] What to talk about on a date [50:13] Tricks for men who aren’t good at first dates [52:30] Using “this or that” or “would you rather questions” on a second date [54:39] Garin’s favorite date [56:23] More great date ideas   Connect with Garin: Instagram  YouTube

Welcome to the down and dirty podcast, the ultimate guide to modern midlife dating. I'm your host Celeste Moore and I'm here to help you navigate the challenges of today's dating world. Think of me as your female version of hitch but better with over 16 years of experience as a certified image consultant and dating coach. I've got the inside scoop on what women want. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the world of healthy masculinity and modern dating. It's a fast changing industry. And here you'll find personal stories, expert insights

and candid conversations that will empower you to take control of your dating life. There's never been a better time to achieve your desired outcome, whether it's marriage, finding a significant other, securing a life partner or simply regaining your dating confidence. We're here with you twice a week to explore the viewpoints and challenges in today's dating arena that resonate with every man seeking dating success and love. So let's dive into today's episode. We've got an exciting discussion lined up for you. Get ready for the double D's of dating where dating dilemmas turn into dating triumph. welcome everybody to another episode of the down and nerdy podcast as always i'm your host

celeste moore i'm super excited to introduce to you everybody listening here today my guest on the show today but before we dive into the episode let me introduce you to him his name is garen flowers and he is a yahoo entertainment reporter and on-camera host for smart beaters whom conduct celebrity interviews in advance of movie premieres he is a usc professor he's a stand-up comedian and has lead in a netflix movie thank you so much for being on the show today garen i really appreciate you taking the time and talking about all this juicy bits of your life your experiences in dating absolutely thank you for having me ready to get down and dirty yeah yeah so wait okay let's clarify something you say you've played in a netflix movie

i thought it was or maybe this is in addition you were in the bachelorette correct yes okay yeah yeah that's right that's separate okay that is separate why isn't it in here i mean it's it's not like a like a work credential so that's why i didn't you know add it on there but i knew we would talk about it so okay and what's the name of the movie you were in the movie is called they clone tyrone it's a sci-fi thriller it came out last july on netflix and i play a tv reporter so it's very fitting i might as well have played myself i love it i love But so that's, yeah, I thought like he's either leaving it out because I know it's not a movie. Yeah.

And so was this in 2020, right? The Bachelorette was 2020. Yes. Okay. So how does one get into become eligible person on the Bachelorette, eligible bachelor on the Bachelorette? How does a guy get cast on the show? Pretty much. Yeah.

Like how, how did that happen for you? Okay. i'll explain how it happened for me and you know give advice on any guys that might be interested in doing so so for me i basically kept it real and poured my heart out to production and they felt my story and wanted to you know cast me on the show so basically i had this crazy situation during the pandemic where i got into this relationship with a woman i met online on on TikTok. And the crazy thing about it was that every other woman I've dated, relationship I've had was someone I've met in person and dated for like six months and was always like at the edge

of a woman saying like, are we going to do this or not? You know, and I was like, yes, let's be in a relationship. So for me to jump into this relationship with someone in like two weeks for someone I met online, it was crazy. It just was unlike me, but she was just like, she was just like hitting all the buttons and you know we were just connecting so well and we had so much time to talk because it was the pandemic and she wanted to you know she was like we talked so much why don't we just you know make it official and I said why not you know and then the next thing you know she was like I love you and I was like throwing off and then I was like wait I love you too so it was great and then out of nowhere she was like yeah well actually this is what I do I kind

of just like rushing the things of men and i don't really feel it and it was very hurtful very painful because i didn't know how someone could do like that how could you like treat someone in this way as if you're falling for them but then have the nerve to say like oh i this is what i do you know that was my first experience with dealing with someone with trauma and someone who had been you know abused by a parent and then by her ex-husband who was still dealing with that trauma and didn't know how to have healthy relationships. And so after that ended, I was looking at an ABC show and during the commercials, they kept advertising The Bachelorette and I decided to apply. And I told them that whole story and I thought they were going to think I was crazy, but instead they loved

it, you know, which made sense because the show was about falling in love and six weeks and proposing. So it makes sense that like they liked me as opposed to thinking I was crazy. So that's how I got on. You know, any advice I have for a guy that would want to go on now is just to be genuine, be authentic, like tell your story. Who are you? What are the relationships you've had? Why are you applying or why is someone nominating you? You know what I mean? And just be authentic to who you are. Yeah, I love that you talk about authenticity because it's such an important part in the dating world, the dating scene, whether you're trying to get on The Bachelorette or not or become a bachelor. I think that a lot of people try to mold into what they feel that that person

might want from them. And then at some point it just blows up, right? Because obviously you're not being true to who you are. What was that journey like for you on the show? It was, it was intense because I went from being pretty private about my dating life to now dating on a national stage, people looking at my dates, looking at me date someone on TV. So it was a bit unreal for me. And it was a great experience though, because it opened me up and allowed me to become a better person, right? Like I'm now sharing my story on a big platform. So I need to be open. I need to be vulnerable. And so it helped me become a more vulnerable person. And then it also helped me become more romantic, right? Like, you know, they're, they're doing the most romantic things

and planning the most romantic dates while you're on the show so it really leveled up my personality as a man and how to treat a woman I'm like you know I'm doing all these things for this woman I just met why am I not doing nice things for a woman and outside of this show that I've been on two three four five six dates with you know so it really helped me level up big time I love that that showed you that because I mean it doesn't have to take a show clearly to level up your dating game right to really show the person that you love or you care about and treat them well and like really treat them special but I think that it's something that we can all learn from because you know in a relationship everybody kind of goes through the motions of life and you

forget about how important it is to date each other newly started in the middle and forget about the people that have been married forever that's also it's so important to not let that go and you can take an example here watch their bachelorette and see all these amazing dates that these men like yourself who just met a stranger and are what going on helicopters and you know i don't know what the dates were for you but i've seen some of the shows before but they've had to be like quite extravagant like you said can you give an example of one of the dates of that on the show or that i've that how i think yeah yeah maybe the show yes yes yeah so let me think so i'll give a couple examples of things i did that i was really proud of where i

was like wow that was unique you know and and actually i started to get to the point where i was so romantic i was like i needed to scale it back a little bit because i was like i i want there to be that mindset of like a woman working for it a little bit too don't just give give give like there needs to be a little bit of give and take from the other side as well but there was a woman I started dating long distance after I was on the show and I visited her twice actually before she visited me but when she visited me I turned my apartment this one right here into like a spa almost like i had like you know a towel and it was like full i learned how to fold it on youtube like like a spa would and i had like her favorite candy and i had like a note that said welcome to

you know your your trip you know we we've set up the place to make you as comfortable as possible you know let management know if you need anything and it was like i was like dang that was a really cool idea i just randomly just thought about it i was like how can i make her feel as comfortable as possible and she loved it as soon as she walked in she was like oh my god so that was a really cool thing where I was like that was like romantic and nice and like a small thing it took me you know 20 minutes to pick up the candy and to learn how to fold the towels you know yeah that's such a cool idea yeah thank you I appreciate it I appreciate it and then there was another girl I dated more recently last year actually where we had met in person I approached her in person

and we ended up hanging out all night which was really cool we just hit it off right away and we made this joke like I was applying to be like her cuddle buddy since it was like December and it's starting to get cold and so on our first date I brought her like a cover letter like you know why I was applying for the job of being her cuddle buddy and like she was just like completely thrown off and surprised by that and the date was I planned something in her area so we went to like a sushi restaurant because she said she liked sushi and so I listened to her what she said she liked and then I planned to go to a sushi restaurant that was near a live music venue so then we walked from the sushi restaurant to a live music venue it was walking distance so we

didn't have to get back in my car and the second part of the date was amazing so I did all these like simple small things that you know she really appreciated yeah thank you for sharing that I think that says so much about you you even said to yourself that you listen you're actively listening and that's so important i mean on both sides but like guys when you can do this this is invaluable to your dates to the people that you're interested in because it shows like you said you did a few little things that were probably huge for her right the return was like massive and i think a lot of people just kind of go through the motions sometimes but you're like attentively listening And that's such an important masculine energy, guys, okay?

Let the women step into their feminine and just let it be. This is such a beautiful... You've got to have the masculine and feminine to dance in a successful relationship. And this was such a beautiful way of telling everybody here how that's possible. Just a few easy things, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I hear a lot of stories. I have a lot of friends that are women.

And they tell me these stories about guys not planning dates or guys planning dates that are convenient for the guy. Right. Like you live 20 minutes apart and the guy plans a date that's in their neighborhood or, you know, different things like that. And, you know, I get it. If you're a guy, you can do whatever it is you want to do. but it just makes such a big difference. If you plan the date, if you do something at least halfway at the bare minimum halfway or in the woman's neighborhood and you know, every now and then I'll, I'll meet a woman that's like, Oh, we'll do something in your neighborhood. I don't care. But for the most part, I usually plan something in their neighborhood or halfway at the very least. God, you sound like one of my podcasts that I put on just to tell men like

how to successfully date this is what you do guys listen to garen you know i've learned a lot the past few years being on the bachelorette and just having guy friends that helped level me up so as much as i'd love to take credit for it i've just paid attention i just pay attention and i listen and i learn well i think that's kind of goes back to probably what you do for a living right you have to pay attention you have to really focus and i'm sure that that helps but um when you talk about leveling up like from your guy friends like what does that mean when you're talking about you've leveled up is it leveled up as a man leveled up in the dating arena or both yeah a little bit of both a little bit a little bit of both I think as a man and it could be the same

for women but I think you level up by by leveling yourself up as a person you know as a man like if I'm working out in the gym if I'm getting money you know working on ways to make more money working on my body in the gym learning new skills that's helping with dating for instance you know I feel better when I'm working out and when I'm more fit I recently started taking salsa lessons started last year like around February I feel so good going to salsa clubs or you know I'll be at a wedding like I went to a wedding in October 2022 a wedding in Mexico and it was embarrassing because i didn't know how to salsa dance i was like damn like if i knew how to i'd be like mingling with all these attractive women you know what i mean and so i was like never again

so then that next february which was last year i started taking lessons and now i can go places and dance and women are like oh you know and it's good enough to where even a a woman of latin descent who uh who who has been dancing her whole life even them are surprised they're like there's So here's this guy who's not Latin and knows how to how to get on the dance floor. So so I think leveling up yourself as a man is leveling yourself up in the day to day world. Thousand percent. I mean, you're just an example of what a high value man is, right? It's constantly in self-growth mindset. It's, you know, how can you do more in life? How can you feel better? How can you be better? How can you show up better?

And that starts with yourself, first and foremost. And I love that you picked up a hobby that you felt would like, you know, you'd be more attractive to at a wedding or just, it's a, it's a great icebreaker too. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. Any man that moves their hips well, you know what a woman's thinking, right? Well, you tell me.

That he's good in bed, baby. Oh, nice. Okay. That's good to know. That's good to know. Yeah. Yeah. He can move his hips.

He can do other things. Exactly. Exactly. I forgot to mention the aspect of my friends. So I do have some like very manly friends who guys who are confident in planning dates, guys who are confident in leading the charge with women, guys who if a woman doesn't fit their frame, they're OK to walk away and in a nice way, not be rude about it, walk away and not just do whatever because this woman is attractive or, you know, is their type. they're willing to walk away if she doesn't fit you know what he's looking for so it's nice to have those guys to turn to yeah that's really powerful no matter if you're a man or a woman in the dating scene you've got to get clear and strategic before you start dating if you want to date successfully if you're looking for a partner or partners i mean whatever your shtick is like

whatever you want to do but like just imagine going into the world with you know no goals or no plan. I mean, you see what sticks. It's not really going to be a successful outcome for you. You're just going to be like, okay, we'll figure this out. If it happens, it happens. But if you really want to get serious about having someone in your life that works for you, then these are the steps you take. And one of those is having clear boundaries, right? This is going to work for me. This is not. And even though she's really hot and like, okay, like this is typically my type, I can step away and know that I'm just making room for the person that's really supposed to be with me. Yeah. It's powerful. It's powerful. As a guy, you're saying like, you know, to an

attractive woman or woman that's your type, that's the next level. Yeah. Because I imagine like everybody wants to have, you know, some hotness in their life, right? Exactly. Exactly. So how have you taking these key components to successfully date like what what have you learned or implemented recently or in the last since let's just use the best or frame of reference um what do you feel that you can talk about what are some key components to successful dating yeah that's a good question for myself or speaking from a vantage point of we can always we can talk about for you first. And then if you feel like you want to be like, yo guys, you've got to do this because this is what it takes, you know? Yeah. So for me, you know, I'm still single,

so I'm not where I want to be dating wise as far as a relationship. And so some of the things that I've learned that I'm now utilizing are one, removing sex and things below the belt for the first month i i hired a dating coach in october of 22 and october of 2022 and she was great because you know at that point i felt like i'm a good good guy for the most part like that's the most important thing to me is being a good person but then also i do feel like i'm a quality person and i have a lot to bring to the table so i was like you know why isn't it working out for me so i hired this dating coach and she taught me a lot you know she taught me a lot about building genuine in authentic relationships and she she says two months of no no below the belt action when getting

to know someone which is which is kind of a lot so I at least I at least go a month and then after that I try to go as long as I can after a month you know you re-evaluate but after a month is already so much more powerful for me I just know that I that I am not just going to have a superficial fling with this person because that can happen with us guys. And the same can happen with women. If you have a fling a little too early, it can be a turnoff with proceeding long term. And so that's one thing I've instituted. I also have created this love list, things I've written down that embody the type of person I want to be with, embody the type of relationship I want to have. And I referenced that list when I'm dating someone who I could see myself being

in a relationship with, I'll kind of look at the box that this person checks off these boxes or whatever. It kind of gives me a reference like, okay, I feel good with this person. Let me double check and make sure that these things are being checked if I'm a little cautious or trying to figure out what the next move is with us. So that's another thing is the love list, nothing below the belt before a month and and just being romantic being smooth listening you know I feel like you know it's it's in LA it's easy to I live in LA I don't ever mention that it's easy to date so I'm trying to when I meet someone who I'm really into to kind of scale back the amount of dating I'm doing with other women and try to focus on listening and hearing her out to

give that a chance like okay let me this opportunity a chance to see if it's going to work Yeah, so curious. I love that, that you share those tools, because I think all of those really play a part in this, you know, your strategic dating plan of finding your perfect person, or your ideal person, I should say, none of us are perfect, but exactly so the list thing i'm a little bit curious because lists can be really damaging or they can play a powerful in the dating arena so on your list i'm just gonna ask a couple things are do you have very specific like what she looks like or is that not so much on your list so that is on my list which my dating coach told me to do because i felt a little shallow putting that on there because yeah i wanted to more so focus on just the internal but my dating coach was like no put on there which you know traits you like what she looks like you know which i

ended up being fine with because i've dated being from south florida i grew up around all kinds of women and i'm attracted to all kinds of women so you know there's a lot of traits that i like in moment physically i only ask that because i do feel sometimes that limits you or as a person in the dating you know i like i'm also like do i put that i want in this top i mean that's that's silly right he could what if he's two inches shorter and then i'm like well you're not six foot so bye you know i mean i feel like i mean obviously you have to be attracted to the person physically i get that 100%. But I feel like sometimes when the lists are so detailed, then you miss out on a lot. And I guess what I'm telling all the guys and women here today is your life values, your beliefs,

your life goals. These are all like really big components of a successful relationship. Also, the attraction. But, you know, if she doesn't have blue eyes and she's got green eyes, like give her a minute. All I'm saying is don't like tunnel vision your list to the point that you're missing out on opportunities. So I just asked that because I think it's really important because I had another show earlier and it was a female and she was talking about her list. I was like, wow, all these lists, right? But she didn't have one item on there that was a physical trait. And that was kind of surprising to me if she goes, it's never been an issue for me. And I was like, oh wow you know there's sapiosexuals there's all sorts of different type of categories that were

what we're attracted to but i do like those tools and i thank you for sharing them i feel like the clearer you are and even the places that you meet your person right like setting yourself up to meet her in the places that are going to bring you i'm sure you want a high value woman you want someone that's got similar goals and ambitions am i correct absolutely absolutely and you know what you just said is powerful. I think that we all need to be open. We all need to be just clear on the fact that what's inside is what's most important. And the reason I ended up being okay with writing down the physical looks is because one, I know that I'm a very open person. I could date a woman of different ethnicity, different colors, different shapes, sizes, all those

things. I think what bothers men a lot with women's lists is like, it's like a hard stop, right it's like a height like you literally have no control over that right but if a woman was like she wants a guy more fit or a guy who dresses nice then it's like i can control you know but i think that's what at least the men around me is like we'll mention things that a woman can't control right for the most part um for the guys the height thing is super frustrating but the reason i was okay with writing down the the looks is because i think we all sort of have a type or something that really does it for us and I think right here on paper sort of released it for me like okay I put it down there that doesn't mean the person needs to look like that but it's like

I'm not gonna lie to myself about what really does it for me but there's been so many times Celeste where I met a woman and the more she talked the more I was just like oh my god I'm attracted to this woman you know what I mean and really let her words and her mannerisms and her personality draw me in them and what she looked like on the surface yeah i love that i when that happens that's usually a good sign like okay i mean yeah yeah you can already think someone's cute but then they just start talking and you're just like oh wow like i'm really into this person yeah when you're with you're feeling their energy right i think that that's i mean that's huge yeah for sure or it can be the opposite right you think someone's really hot across the room and then

they open their mouth and you're like whoa okay uh whoa what what was that right and sometimes it's right away like nope nope yep can we just not open your mouth that's bad too yeah i know this is terrible but you know i'll watch the bachelor now i watch every episode of any bachelor nation show and i haven't been on it but you see the photos of the contestants before the show airs and then i'll have my favorite women and then they'll they'll see them i'll see them on screen and they'll talk i'm like ah now scratch up not to be me we all do it don't worry i mean you know married single whatever we all do it exactly exactly yeah i think it's really important to that's that's really cool too I have to really touch the point that you know for a month below

the belt like nothing's happening and like you know getting to know someone you can be intimate in so many ways without physical I mean have a good makeout session make sure they can kiss okay but anything else is like yeah get to know them on different intimate level emotionally spiritually I mean there's so many different ways where you can connect intellectually and see if that's something you want to further pursue but i love that i love that little rule for yourself or a tool that you use to really understand if you like you want to get to know this person is she doing it for me like beyond just you know his brain below so yeah yeah his reaction so ever since i've instituted that rule i'd love to get your thoughts on this

i've heard from some women that if a guy isn't trying to get in your pants for women sometimes it's confusing because they're like does he really like me is he attracted to me you know and so what what are your thoughts on that when a guy is not trying so unfortunately it's been normalize for guys to really like attack you on the first date second date third date if they're going to you exactly right then very normalized and it shouldn't be but if you're like there's other ways to show that you're physically attracted there's the friend zone and then there's the attraction zone if you become her therapist if you become her everything that's not a good idea. You're going to get friend zone right away. So I think it's important to still

show some physical attraction. You know, you can touch, you can kiss if there's passion. If you are really looking into each other's eyes and digging deep into conversations, clearly there's an attraction. And I think that you can just tell her, look, at some point, I mean, please not in the first date but you know a couple dates in you're like I just want to get to know you more without the cloud of sexuality and and I want to see if I want to pursue this more and usually if I take a month to to decide then I mean I think if you sharing that to her she'll really respect you. Yeah, I think, and I think it's important to be natural with whoever you're dating, but I do think there's little small things you can do that help build, build stronger

connection, build a little bit of mystery. And so my example of that is when you're dating a woman, if you do want to take your time with it, first of all, like you said, you don't have that conversation might one for sure on the first date or the second date but i think you wait till you get to a point to where y'all can get physical and go and you let there be a little confusion and mystery you let there be a little bit what's going on like huh like you know i like that because it's like you kind of build a little bit of internal chase between each other but it's like a healthy one it's like a safe one you know like we're still fighting for each other even though we're spending time with each other getting to know each other and then i think once you have

that moment then you can have that conversation like hey by the way you know i typically might be physical with someone at this point but i really want to get to know you on a deeper level because i know how i can be if i'm physical too early just be honest well why not she's going to respect you more you're going to respect yourself more and i'll never forget like obviously on my website i say i'm the female version of hitch but better because this is my all-time favorite movie okay one of them anyway and i love the scene i'll never forget it when he's in the bar with eva longoria ever excuse me i'm not sure how to say it properly and you know um chip is is uh trying to hit on eva longoria i forget her name i believe it's uh leave us mend i believe

it's mendez yes yes yeah oh it's mendez oh my god i don't know what's going on today and i'm envisioning this moment and you know will smith he goes over and he saves her he's like he brings here the right jury because he's paying attention and basically he's like you know gets in a way to get in it but he she's expecting him to give her the line like the pickup line that every woman like oh can i you know some cheesy line how to get her number and he doesn't And he just says, you know, he has this banter back and forth, like, you're expecting me to do this, but I'm not going to do this. And he's leaving this air mystery. And when he's like, you know what? Enjoy your drink. Have a wonderful night. You know, that's the basis of it. And she

like her mouth basically drops open. And she's like, what? He didn't ask me out. He didn't give me his number. He's like, what the hell? And I think in that moment. As women, we're expected to just the same thing happen yeah right so we don't really take it seriously but if there's a little bit of mystery then we want to get to know you we want there's this excitement like what he just flipped the script on me you know and i'll never forget that i think that we obviously don't have to do it in that sense but there's ways and something that you're implementing is giving a little bit of mystery like oh he likes me he's attracted to me but he doesn't want to have sex with me right like okay what's up with that let me let me like marinate that for a second like

figure out what is going on yeah the mystery leave a little bit of mystery you know i'm a firm believer that as a guy you have to you have to build a little bit of mystery so that the woman feels like she's trying to get you to because like as men we're the hunters right are supposed to be women. And I'm a huge advocate of women shooting their shot, a huge advocate of it. And it's not a turnoff ladies. It's not a turnoff to me. It's not. And to my guy friends, it's not, but you know, you're pursuing the woman. You don't want to have that positioning where you're always trying to pursue her. You're always trying to get her attention or whatever. You've got to let her know that you have value in yourself, that you believe in yourself. And so,

you know creating that mystery is a way of letting her do a little bit of pursuing as well where you're like she's like why didn't he try to sleep huh let's figure this out you know and then you can lay it on her like i do want to take my time with it yeah well you did say something that i'm really curious about you and your friend both want to be pursued in what would you say like if i saw you across the room and i approached you versus you approaching me yes you think that's a turn on to you so yeah so i was saying i'm an advocate of women shooting their shot as well because there's a few reasons why i think a woman should be open to shooting her shot or at least give very clear signals i'm open at the very least but one a lot of times a guy might

just be focused on what's going on in front of him and with his friends like not all guys are are their eyes are wandering not all guys are eye wanderers some guys are just like i'm here my boys, whatever. That's number one. Number two, he might be nervous to talk to you. A lot of men are nervous to approach a woman. It's not easy. It's tough. Even as a guy like myself who does approach women, every situation is different. Every situation is tough. That's number two. Number three, he might not have noticed you, literally might physically not have noticed you. And so I think a woman pursuing or, or letting a guy know, Hey, I'm, I'm interested in you, or I think, you know, I want to talk to you.

I think it's completely fine. And then as the woman, once you do that, you can put it to the ball in his court after that. Okay. And so, and so to answer your question about, dude, we want to be pursued. Not necessarily. I like doing the pursuing, but it's not a deal breaker. If a woman pursues me, I'm not going to say, Oh, you're a great catch.

i'm not gonna i'm not gonna date because you walked up to me yeah i think there's just like he said i think the initial letting him know that you're attracted to him is is okay but i think a man should be the majority of the pursuer only due to the fact that you can really switch the roles really fast and then she feels like the pressure of carrying that weight so i feel like it's okay in the beginning like oh yeah hi you know what's up um or or however that um happens but yeah i think you just want to make sure that the roles flip and then she's in her masculine and then he's like but i'm trying to be my masculine and then that's not gonna work yeah yeah yeah eventually as the guy you have to kind of take control and take over if you're interested

yeah exactly i mean clearly if you're want to take the lead a little bit so so I want to talk a little bit about ghosting and now what the fuck man okay I have to say it like we are all grown-ass adults and why are people still ghosting it's trash to be honest with you it's trash like I think ghosting is is one of the worst forms of just like what what does someone call it that I heard something called the other day it's just like it's just such like emotional immaturity and it's like the worst form of like not not trauma i'm looking for a word that's not as deep as that but like it hurts trauma on someone because they're confused they're sad they're angry they're they're like wondering what did i do wrong like like goes

and causes so many issues and you know look like as someone who has been on a bunch of first dates like you know not following up with someone who you went on one date with the united states like Like, you don't have to break up with every single person you've gone on a date with. But if you build a flow with someone, like you're texting or y'all are hanging out or whatever it may be, I think you should have a conversation with them and not just ghost them. You know what I'm saying? It's terrible. Like, it's just a horrible thing. And it's not a great feeling.

I've been on both ends of it, you know, to be honest. And, like, the times where I have done it, I felt crappy about it. And I have followed up with women before, like, hey, look, you know, I apologize. I had this going on, this going on, blah, blah, blah. And I've made it a mission to have conversations with women as hard as it is when I'm not feeling it because I think it's a terrible thing. I felt it, and I think it's horrible. Yeah, it really is. It's human decency to let someone know where you stand.

All it is, they are going to appreciate it much more than you just completely leaving the situation. And like you said, if you're in a flow with someone, you're texting them back and forth, you plan to meet, and then crick it. And it's like, yo, you can just talk to me. You can just tell me like, I'm not feeling it. I met someone else. I don't care. But the fact that you just leave people and it's so common, it's terrible. It really is a shitty feeling.

So just follow through. And they can be hard conversations. But at the end of the day, that other person is going to be okay. If they want to be pissed, they want to be pissed. You can't control other people's feelings and other people's reactions. But at least you know you're like a good human. And you're like, okay, this is not working for me because whatever. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And, you know, I do, I do think there's things that someone can do to turn someone off. Like if you're blowing their phone up, if you're going hard too soon and someone falls off, there's a reason why they fell off. Right. There's like, there's like a clear reason if you were just like blowing someone up with a million text messages and sending them unsolicited photos and all kinds of stuff. But for the most part, if you have a good flow with someone, and this is more so after

you've gone out if you've gone out you have a good flow with them y'all are still talking even after you've gone out just to not just to not talk to that person I think is just terrible I think it's terrible yeah great totally great so everybody listen do not and not to and you know look at look at yourself and look at how you would feel if you were on the other end yeah that's how I try to do it when when I when I'm like in a situation where I don't want to date someone anymore I'm like how would I want someone to treat me because I've been treated like dog shit And it's like, you know, I would not want someone to feel the way someone else would make me feel. Yeah, yeah, that is, it's powerful.

So one, one recognition and literally stopping for a minute and saying that this isn't working. You don't even have to like go into a whole thing, right? You can just say, look, it's great to meet you. Good luck. It's not for me anymore. It doesn't have to be crazy. you talk about a lot of first dates and you're like a master first dater that's good but my friends call me serial dater to be honest okay i am what is going on no

is it the la scene i i do think so i do think so before moving here i was always dating someone long term it was always like more connection you know yeah and this is being in la it's been like a lot of dates a lot of fun times not as much genuine connection so you know i've been working on it you know that's why i hired a dating coach a while back that's why i'm always like checking myself and trying to figure out like doing like a referendum on my dating life okay how have things been going the past six months or the past year so i'm always looking inwards and seeing how i can get better and do better you know what i mean and but yeah i you know i tell myself that i'm trying And I try and I put myself out there and I've had some great first dates, you know, and so I'm just going to keep doing me and keep going until the right thing hits.

On a real side note, when I used to live in L.A., it was really hard connecting at a deeper level. I found I also lived in Las Vegas. So you know where I'm coming from. L.A. and Vegas to me were very similar in the fact that people, in my opinion. I do have some great friends there were really one layer me it was like very superficial layer and to get any deeper was like they didn't even know what that means they didn't even know how to connect into who they are and so it was a struggle too for me for sure so I understand it's a very different arena and it's because it's very popular and obviously it's an entertainment

make capital right so everything is about how do i look on the outside how am i coming across and that's like it's ingrained in them so much that it's so hard sometimes to actually have deep connections there so i'm not throwing out all people in la or vegas but it's a lot it's challenging that's what i like to say because a lot of people say oh la dating is trash and it's garbage and this, that, and the other. And I think when you put those words out there, it really manifests it for you. You have to be careful what you say, unless you want it to be true, right? If you want it to be true, it's always going to be that way. You're going to go into first dates thinking, this is trash. This is going to be trash. You know, this person's

going to treat me like X, Y, and Z. So I've tried my best to train my mind to think it's more of a challenge and you know i've had you know great dates with women that that i wanted to you know didn't see it moving forward so i just see it as a challenge and you know i know friends here who have got into relationships with women they've met in la so i'm definitely i'm definitely optimistic and it is super challenging though you know i lived in other cities where it was not as difficult to build connection but it's challenging and i think it's good in a way where it's like you're gonna when you're in a relationship you're gonna find like the ultimate match because you've been through it you've been through it you put the work in right right so it's gonna be good

it is it is mentality too and yes like i said i'm not throwing everybody over there bus but knowing that like uh you know it's okay to get deep it's okay to get vulnerable how you're going to connect with people so like i've learned so much just from this show right here and having guests on it's like it's like my phd i've been able to learn so much about myself and so much healing has come and it's just like it's truly amazing this platform has been huge for me so far and continues to so yeah i'm super grateful yeah it's just been great thank you yeah absolutely the first date what are some really great first date okay great ideas okay great first date ideas yes i'm learning more to plan a date based on conversations i have so

i try to have a conversation enough with a woman to where the first date can be unique to us but also don't stress yourself out because there have been times where i stressed myself out so much where i was like i didn't want to go out with this person anymore because i was stressing out so much on what to plan you know just press them and so i've stressed myself out to the point where i'm like i don't even want to be i don't even want to go out with this person because they're just giving me anxiety you know but it was more so on me put that pressure on myself so you can keep it very simple and plan a coffee date or a lunch date or a dinner date or drinks but the best first dates is one where you can have some kind of experience so going on a beach walk if you're

near the beach right you could really lepers that a beach walk is always nice and most women enjoy the beach most women do enjoy the beach so you can go on a beach walk and that can turn into tea, ice cream, drinks that can turn into a number of things because you're walking by restaurants or whatever it may be, or you can, if you're far from restaurants, you can go to one afterwards. So a good first date is a walk on the beach. If you don't live near a beach or a lake, you can do a park, a nice walk in the park. You know, those are good first dates. Yeah. Definitely like sit down happy hours. You know, you don't want to spend too much money on a first date. I've spent tons of money on first dates before. So now I try to, I try to just do like

drinks instead of like dinner and drinks. So try to just scale it back and see if we'd like each other. Then we can do more if we, if we like, what are some other good first dates? I went on a hike one time, you know, me and the woman, another woman I had approached in person, not from a dating app. We went on a hike. That was super fun. And from that hike, we went to get brunch. And then from brunch, we went to a cat shelter to look at cats. Cause we were talking about fostering cats so it was just like it went from one place to the other it was just it was just so so much fun i had such a great time on that date and what are some other good ideas just set a keyword there yeah you know you can do facetime dates facetime dates are great if you want to meet

someone on facetime first if it's from a dating app then you can do like a play you know if you want to go watch a play that could be a good first date if you guys talked about a play you wanted to see together it's really about the conversation you're having right that can really set it up nice like oh yeah let's go do that like we're we're talking about painting you know let's let's go paint on the first date why not let's go painting you know what i mean yeah i'm trying to think of some of the first dates i've had yeah yeah i've had first dates that were super unique and different but then also a lot of good first dates that were just drinks or just a walk yeah I think you said a really key component and it's fun because I'm really an advocate of just having

a good time stop putting so much pressure on whether or not you guys are really going to connect and just go experience something with a new person and focus on the experience right take the one thing I would say play probably maybe not the first date just because you're not really going to be able to talk to that person and get to know them a little bit maybe like third fourth date. But like anything that's like get your energy and your endorphins up to write, maybe go cards or pinball museum. I don't know. There's some other there just go experience, go have fun time. And you don't have to put like crazy limits. Like you said, don't make doesn't have to be so stressful. Right. Take a walk in the park and grab some ice cream. Love it. Right. You're around

people. You're side by side, sometimes with dinner and with drinks. Sometimes I'm just putting this out there it can feel like an interview or it can feel like really really personal too fast so I think anything where you can walk side by side or do something side by side is really a great idea but I love those ideas that's yeah so here's my thing on like movie first date or play first dates I feel you like it's kind of become taboo to do those our first date the reason I think they can be good is that you have an actual conversation about it because Celeste a lot of people struggle with connecting. So if you're able to do something right away that you connect on, you're going to have a lot to talk about. You can meet up beforehand and talk about it,

then you have it, and then you can hang out a little bit afterwards. So I think the cool thing about a play or a movie or something else, but once again, only if it's like it came up in conversation naturally when you were getting to know each other, it can really give you a lot to talk about on the very first date, which a lot of people struggle with. A lot of people struggle with what questions to ask. A lot of people struggle with how do I have a conversation with her when we're sitting across from each other

or whatever it may be. So it's a hat for guys not to feel like they're carrying the date. There was a first date I went on one time where a woman invited me to a Brian McKnight concert. It was so much fun. So much fun.

You know, I had a great time. And I was like, yeah, I'll go on that date with you. And he was like, sure. And that was a good thought. So for all you guys out there that don't know what to talk about, okay, you can hire me

Or you can ask open-ended questions. Anything that's a yes or no answer shouldn't be asked, really. Don't talk about drama. Don't talk about children, even if you have them. Don't talk about all the crazy things. You want to get to know that person to see if you want to go on a second date, ultimately, right? But you want to do it in a way that doesn't feel like an interview and it doesn't feel

like you're like, uh, I have no words. so one great question I'm just gonna throw out one is like and think about something that you so with these questions you kind of want to do an interview in a way that's not an interview so traveling very important to me I've been to a lot of places in the world and I want to continue so something I would ask is what's some of the best places or most interesting places you've traveled to and what were they and why were they interesting to you so already she's like okay so oh my god I've been to Italy and and I did this and I did this and I want to do this and so you just go from there and I think maybe that's not one of your questions but think of questions

that does that say that she's adventurous does that say she wants to travel does that say um you know what are her views on that and all of that that one question or I think that was three questions you can get so much information about that person to see if that's going to be a good fit for you exactly exactly and i've got some tricks for men who aren't good at first dates or asking good questions so and they're super easy they're super easy the first thing is you a lot of people to less don't take the time to think about a date before a date and to me i see dates as like a celebration like us two people have agreed to take time out of what we could be doing otherwise to see each other and so i like to think about what conversations did we have

leading up to this date what do i like about her what do i want to share about myself and so yeah you sit down and think about things that you can also look up online what are some good first date questions so you can have a pot of 10 questions in your head five i would say like five questions in your head already because sometimes there's that that downtime where like you just have like a great 10 minute banter and then you kind of have that oh and then you're just kind of looking at each other so if you have one of those questions in your head you'd be like so you know what what is uh what what is uh one of your favorite artists you've seen in concert you know just kind of have that ready in your head another another thing that i do so that those are

too another thing that i do is using your surroundings to bring up questions especially deeper topics if i see a kid that walks in front of us oh my god they're so cute you know is kids something that you want but it's such a right it's i love it though yeah i love it i love being a journalist because you just learn so many communication skills that have been so useful on dates but like it's so easy like a dog walks in front of you she's like going over going crazy over a dog like do you have any pets or do you want any pets or whatever and that's going to create a whole 10-15 minute conversation if you open up the kids conversation that's a tough one to bring up but if you see a kid and you guys just had a conversation about a kid it's an easy one

to smooth into so that's another yeah there's so many great hacks men can use on a first date so to let the conversation flow yeah i love those thank you for sharing and you get to learn a lot as a journalist and i have a great trick for date two i don't think it's a good date one trick this is a great date two or day three trick and it has always landed for me 10 out of 10 times this has landed for me print out a list of this or that questions or would you rather questions and bring it on the date i guarantee you that the woman is going to have a great time yeah that's a great idea there's there's card games you can just pick buy the cards and just bring the cards on the date with you just and do five of them boom that's it yeah that's it

yeah make it real short make it 30 minutes whatever whatever yeah i love that and it's okay too i know first and date like first and second date excuse me you're really trying to get to know somebody but it's okay to have a minute of silence too right it is okay to just pause and see how you feel in each other's cause too. So just keep that in mind too. You don't have to like, you know, and it's just like, yo, this dude won't shut up. Oh, right. They're a little, yeah, one.

That's a great point. If, if you're always trying to fill in the awkward side, I just posted a video about this on TikTok yesterday, literally yesterday, Celeste, if you don't allow awkward silences, sometimes you're not challenging the other person to ask you a question or the other person to challenge you know just to keep the conversation going now if they've been asking questions the whole time speak up you know like you need to butt in if someone's badgering you the questions you need to butt in but if the conversation is flowing and you're done asking questions for a little while just let there be that awkward silence like you said and see how

you feel and let them bring up something yeah completely i mean those were all like so beautiful those nuggets i think everyone here can listen and learn so much from you um and i love that you've had so many i mean i'm still practicing right i'm like still dating and like learning to put myself in and i'm a dating coach so like we can all learn and listen and like if we just continue to like to be better people right hopefully exactly it's all gonna work out okay Okay. So one last question. What was one of your favorite dates and what was it? What was one of my favorite dates and what was it? Recently, recently. And when I mean recently, this past weekend, actually,

there's this woman I've been recently saying, and it was my birthday last week. and so as a birthday present she bought us a pottery class and it was so much fun it was so much fun i made a joke about you know that movie ghost with patrick swayze uh behind him demi more i believe it was and he's like you know doing the pottery with her and i made a joke that i was going to do that with her but uh yeah we were side by side and we were learning to do pottery and both made bowls it was so much fun I had a great time so you know I really appreciated her thinking about that you know choosing that idea and something that was different for both of us so it was a learning experience was both and I had a fantastic time we were making jokes

there was a lot of like sexual innuendo so we were making a lot of sexual jokes yeah it was just a great time and then we went to get dinner afterwards and yeah it's easily one of the best dates i've ever been on so awesome well thank you for sharing that one yeah i just love to hear kind of what makes this special date and i know i know my audience has asked me for date ideas so when they hear other people's experiences i think that helps them as well so um thank you for sharing that is there anything else you would like to share with the audience here anything that i have not covered or you're just wanting to have the space to talk yeah well since since you said your audience love date ideas you know that that's one is pottery another another date i went on was

paint and sip that was one that i had planned so you know we were painting and sipping wine so that was really nice a wine tasting is always a great day to try different types of wines we were talking about like a question like this or that question like you said a card game you know there's there's different cards that help you open up to ask each other questions that you typically wouldn't so i think that's like a good like fourth fifth sixth date type thing there's a card game we're not really strangers that game is great for really getting to know someone on a deeper level because it asks good questions that you might not think about yourself take turns so that's a good personal date you know going on like a boat ride you know like a romantic boat ride is a good date idea

yeah going to like a day festival when you're like walking around and doing different things when there's an environment where things are changing those are always fun dates so like you're walking down the street like a busy street of like shops and districts like you can like find out so much about someone the way they like to shop the things they like to do what what what what excites them you know so like uh like walking down like a busy street where there's shops and stuff or um you know like a like a little fest food festival or a little concert there's so many different things so those are just some good ideas there yeah well thank you so much for sharing and Yeah, go. I'll leave all the information in the show notes so people can find you and check you out on all your socials. I'll put everything in there. So if you want to find out more information about Garen, you know, go check them out. But as we wrap up this fascinating conversation with Garen Flowers, I want to express my heartfelt thanks for sharing his insight and experiences and advice. And to you, our listeners, your support and engagement make this journey truly rewarding.

So remember to follow and subscribe to the Down and Dirty Podcast for more inspiring conversations. Until next time, keep exploring, stay curious, and thank you for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to support podcasts like ours, then please hit that subscribe button, leave a five-star rating, and or invite others to listen. Your support is what helps us grow and continue to bring you valuable content. Thanks for hanging out with us on today's episode. let's stay connected you can find me on instagram at celeste more image and i'd love to hear your

thoughts on today's discussion for all the links resources and additional information mentioned in this episode check out the show notes on my website celeste more.com that's all for now but stay tuned for our next episode where we'll dive into more exciting topics until then see you next time friends Thanks for watching!