Moore Style - Moving Beyond Approach Anxiety with Eric Disco

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

There is an under-discussed epidemic of men who find approaching women extremely difficult. According to this week’s guest, Eric Disco, this is extremely common and normal for some men to evolve past this fear in their life. As a result of our lack of social connection in the past years, that problem has only gotten worse and we are starting to see how online dating doesn’t always serve us. Eric shares with us his six steps to getting past approaching anxiety, his personal experience with moving through this and why it's so important for men to learn this. I hope this week’s episode will serve you in finding even more joy and happiness in your dating life today!   In this week’s episode we discuss:  [02:01] Who is Eric Disco? [02:36] How Eric became a dating coach  [03:28] Eric’s experience of dating anxiety  [08:46] Eric’s first three steps for approaching women  [22:20] The best and worst places and ways to practice approaching women  [28:32] Eric’s final three steps for approaching women  [45:43] Impact of COVID on dating  [49:52] Why it’s so important for men to learn how to approach women  [54:27] By following these steps you might meet more attractive women than online dating  [01:00:08] How Eric coaches his clients about sex [1:04:48] How to know if she wants a kiss [1:15:57] Eric’s favorite date    Connect with Eric   Website   Book 

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena. So let's get into today's episode.

I wanted to welcome everyone today. We are on episode 30 and today's guest, we have Eric Disco. Eric is a dating coach for men, personal one-on-one coach. Approaching anxiety is the debilitating inhibition that prevents men from starting conversations with women. Something that should seem easy and simple is the hardest thing for most men to do. It was for him. It took years of research, practice, coaching, and experimenting to find a way for him to get past his own debilitating anxiety. And so he developed a method that has helped hundreds of men achieve their goals with women. Now as a professional dating coach, he has coached clients all across the United States and internationally. Uh, and he's has an award-winning book called she's six steps

away, detailing his method and helping men meet and date those attractive women they see in their every real life. So this is such a huge and wonderfully important thing to teach men in general, but somebody that has debilitating anxiety, that's quite another level of, of coaching, if you will. But let's get into a little bit about what got you into wanting to become a dating coach. Sure. Well, thank you for having me on this podcast, Celeste. I'm glad to be here. What got me into being a dating coach? Well, a long time ago, I moved to New York City. And I was, as a young single guy, I was pretty excited to be in New York City, to move from New York City, to move from the suburbs to New York City, right? Where there's

all these women, all these dating opportunities. Everywhere I would go on the street, I would see these beautiful women. You go into coffee shops, bars, they're everywhere, right? Just all these opportunities for you to meet these amazing women. But whenever I would try to talk to them, I found this overwhelming paralysis, this icy fear surging through my veins, keeping me from doing this thing that seems like it should be so simple to do, to just say, hey, how are you, to a woman in just the most basic context, even if I was just sitting next to her in a coffee shop and interested in her. And that bothered me.

I didn't like that feeling of being disempowered. Sure, you could do it through dating apps. You could do it through, there's all these ways around it. But to me, that seemed like a big problem. And I decided to make it my mission in life, or at least for a part of my life, at least for a certain time, to see if I could get past that fear. okay yeah that's um i have dealt with small portions of anxiety but uh i have a daughter and she's dealt with debilitating anxiety and there's such a difference i think we all have look you know we get anxious before a job interview or a date or you know just we're not 100 sure how it will go and uh maybe that's a control thing or maybe it's just a comfort thing I'm not sure there's probably different layers, but when you have something, so I don't know if it's, it's probably traumatic every time, right? It's probably, like you said, you had like ice going through your veins or that's what you felt like. Yeah. Um, well,

the traumatic part is what happens if you do have this debilitating anxiety and you do talk to her, you say hey how are you and she ignores you and then and then you feel horrible for the next day or two you keep rethinking it you ruminate over it you say did i that you think did i say something wrong did i right that's the traumatic part of it and why guys don't do that in the first place because guys who have the anxiety also have that you know that rumination they think about it they it just really bothers them. And so they're like, you know what, I'm not even going to get into that situation in the first place. Yeah. And that makes you really question and probably over time, right? You stop approaching women because you don't want that feeling. And so

that kind of amplifies the situation if you, if you're not in the habit of talking to someone on a regular basis. So it probably can make it worse, but for you, um, just was there a particular trigger or is it something that grew over time for you? There was no particular trigger. I think, you know, I had my share of failures when I was younger, but I don't think there was a particular trigger that, that brought on this disposition uh and more so i would say i would say the majority of men have this the majority of men if if you ask them to walk across the bar and talk to a woman probably couldn't i mean a lot could but there's a lot of guys that under no circumstances would they ever

do this and I I don't tend to think it's as much of a trigger like something happened to you yeah as much as something you're not used to doing and this kind of evolutionary programming to just protect yourself to protect your reputation because our social bonds are so important right now in this day and age yeah you can do everything by yourself in your home but you know evolving like that that group that you grew up in was was so important or early humans that you had to protect your reputation at all costs against doing something that could jeopardize that so i think this is a very inbuilt innate way that that men uh have learned to interact with the world i mean it can be changed and we can talk about that but i think it's more of an innate way that men do this

Yeah. So if, like you said, if it's something that has been an evolution over time and, but there, you've created a process to teach men how to overcome these anxieties and meeting the women and starting the conversations. so I think this is so fascinating because from what I teach obviously you know how to flirt how to just speak to from a woman's point of view but I really want to hear from a guy's point of view because you've experienced this yourself what is um some of that look like how do you teach these guys what is the process I'm sure there's like you probably have steps if I'm not wrong right I do I I do. And that's, and that's part of why my book is called she's six steps away. I do have steps. Okay. Uh, so, so this process I developed, uh, then through the simplest, smallest steps that they can do to practice over and over again, it's similar to exposure therapy, right? Like

if you're afraid of heights, they might take you up one flight of stairs first, and then the next day, maybe take you up two flights of stairs, or if you've gotten a lot of fear of heights, maybe they only take you up one or two steps first. Right. So this is kind of what I do with men is that I break down the process, this huge, overwhelming process of walking across that room, you know, stopping her and saying, Hey, I just saw you here and I wanted to come and meet you. my name's Eric, right? And going into this conversation, knowing what to say, there's all this huge pressure to do this. And it seems simple, but there's a lot of steps involved there. So I break it down into much, much smaller steps that you can practice over again,

over and over again. So for example, one of the steps, the first step is to simply go out over and over again where these women are, go out into the world. Maybe they're in coffee shops, they're in bars you might see them in stores you might see them in the park and you're going to start going to these places regularly and get comfortable in these places right it may seem when you first hear it may seem like wow that's sort of a silly step that's easy i always go out i always go shopping but you don't necessarily put yourself in these places with the intention of practicing meeting women to practice the next steps that are going to come right you want to get into the habit of doing this regularly every day going to places you know are going to be

attractive women and once you go back to these places regularly you start to get comfortable yeah does that make sense as a first step a complete makes sense yeah it's just getting comfortable with an environment that you're not comfortable with right that's that makes complete sense exactly i mean you know go to yoga so if you want to meet women at bars but you never to go to bars and you're like, you know what, I'm going to meet women at bars. The first time you step into a bar, you might be kind of like overwhelmed with the sound, the noise, all the people. And if you are, here's what you do. You go, you sit at the bar, maybe for a half hour, 45 minutes, have a drink, go home, come back and do the same thing the next day and do the same

thing the next day. Don't talk to anybody. Just get comfortable, get comfortable in that bar. and then once you start to get a little comfortable there then we'll move on to the next step almost like uh exercising a muscle you haven't used in maybe ever or a long long time so yeah absolutely yeah i love that um so okay so i don't know james is gone to this bar you know five or six times it's very comfortable he is ready for that step too what does that look like so the next step is you're in this bar and you see this amazing woman on the other side of the bar and what do guys do typically in that situation when they see that amazing woman right sit back and they'll think okay she looks interesting she's with her friend what do i do

what do I say what's you know what would be an interesting thing to say to this girl how would I flirt with her let's see uh she's wearing that cute outfit I could compliment her but I don't want to come out too strong right they start thanking all this stuff but here's what you're going to do instead of doing all that stuff thinking about what you're going to say to her how you're going to interact with her you're going to do one thing you're going to put yourself close enough to her so that you could have a conversation with her you're going to position yourself near her. That's all you're going to do. You're going to think up an excuse to walk across that bar or that bookstore or that coffee shop or that store and get close enough so that

you could have a conversation with her. You're not going to talk to her. You're just going to practice getting over there, right? So if you're in a store and she's looking at, she's in the bread aisle, looking at some loaves of bread, how are you going to get over there? Celeste, how are you going to get over near her? You're going to walk over next to her. You're going to buy some bread too. Exactly. Exactly. You're going to buy some bread too, right? You're not going to talk to her. She's looking at some bread. You're going to walk over, stand next to her close enough. Maybe that you could reach out and touch on the arm or say something to her. You're just going to look at the bread, right? Not going to say anything. You'll stay there for

five seconds or so then turn around and walk away okay and you're going to start to practice this over and over again whenever you see an attractive woman you're going to think hmm how can i get next to her i'm not going to talk to her right and so every time you see her you're going to put your feet in motion right away you're going to disconnect your brain you don't need your brain for any of this in fact your brain your thinking just gets in the way right all that thinking what do i say what do i do how do i be clever forget about it just put your feet in motion and get next to her do this over and over again whenever you see an attractive woman and so after a while what happens is your body every time you see an attractive woman instead of sitting back and being

like i don't know what to say your body is going to start taking action and walking over to her finding some excuse to get next to her does that make sense complete sense and i think yeah it's just being in her aura her circle for her to you know she takes a side glance and sees you and it's not it's not overbearing at all but i have a question on based on that so earlier when you're talking about that you said she's at the bar with her friends i feel like this is a completely different situation when a man is wanting to approach a girl within a group or a couple friends. I feel like it's so much more daunting, right? Because it's almost like this pack against an individual. And so do you still teach him the same approach to step two if she is with other

people absolutely okay because there's no way to talk to her unless you're next to her right you got to get next to her somehow anyway you got to get within her vicinity right so I if you have a lot of apprehension about you know that death march across the bar like okay here I go. I'm walking over. She sees me coming. OK, this better be good. What you might want to do is just take a walk around the bar casually, look at some paintings on a wall and see if you can find some excuse to end up next to her. Right. Maybe she's there with some friends. You see something interesting on the wall behind her or you can stop at the bar next to her and grab a drink and then you could casually turn to her and say something to her and her friends,

right? It's more casual once you're already there in her vicinity, rather than having to walk across the room to talk to her. Does that make sense? Oh yeah. Makes it much more comfortable, non-threatening, non-direct. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you can be direct and there's something to be said for being direct and i work with guys on that too um but that that can be a little bit more of that a wall to climb right right to get over to do that yes and just from a woman's point of view too okay it's just devil's advocate on that right if he's like lurking and he's and you like if you're a woman who kind of knows and is paying attention because she's kind of aware and seeing what's going on in the room is this is there a good looking guy or you know she's on

the hunt or the prowl for if you will um if it keeps going on too she could be like oh this guy's a little creepy right he's coming off as a little like he keeps looking but then he's looking away and then i mean what do you what do you say about that good so that's that's a great point and so the way you're going to be the way you're going to do this this is very casual right So once you see this woman and it takes you a millisecond to realize that you're attracted to her, right, you get your body in motion. You don't you don't keep looking at her. You don't keep staring at her. Right. You don't hover in her vicinity. You walk directly over to somewhere near her and you don't face her. you don't turn your back to her i like to have my shoulder kind of facing at a 90 degree angle to her

right so let's say she were leaning against the wall um let's say she were leaning against the wall looking at her phone right and i i kind of walk past her and i want to position extra i might just pull out my phone and stand against the wall and look at my phone too right so i'm we're both facing the exact same direction i'm not facing her i'm not hovering i'm not looking at her we're just facing the same direction right does that make sense or if we're we're looking at bread in the bread aisle i'm looking at bread too i'm not facing her i'm not i'm just looking at bread in front of me right yeah the next step i may say something to her and i might look over to her but i'm actually still gonna keep facing toward the bread when i talk to her okay i'm gonna pick

up a loaf of bread and say, Hey, have you tried this or something? Right. Yeah. So is that step three? Yeah. You got us onto step three. Congratulations. You graduated, you graduated Celeste. So it's making conversation with her and you just say, hello, is it just a hello? or is it actual a sentence you know like yeah so go ahead yeah so I like to have a very simple mundane question to start off don't be clever I mean sometimes you know I'll be flirty with the girl I'll say something fun and clever if she's you know trying on dresses I'm gonna grab another dress off the rack and say hey what do you think is this me you know she'll she'll laugh or something, and then you can talk to her. All that stuff is great. I love that stuff. It's

great. But for the purpose of getting your body comfortable with this process, and if this whole thing is new to you and you're trying to get past your fear, you're not going to be clever. You're not going to do any of that stuff. To start off with, you're going to ask a very, very mundane question like, hey, have you tried this bread? Or if you're in a bar, you may say, hey, what time does this place close? Or what drinks here are good? Something very, very simple that's really any normal person would have no problem answering the question. And you're going to, again, start this process of practicing over and over again until you feel comfortable with this. You're going to ask her that one question, wait till she responds. She might say, oh,

this bar closes at 2 a.m. Then you say, thank you. And then you walk off, right? That's it. That's, that's your whole job, right? You want to make these steps as small and manageable as possible and practice them over and over again. So your body gets comfortable with this and you can start moving on to more advanced conversation, flirting, or, you know, getting into deeper conversation with her does that make sense yeah definitely uh it's just like teaching him how to be comfortable in a situation that's very uncomfortable absolutely i think we we all you know i know this is you coach men but this is also something that you can use everyday life i mean any situation that's not comfortable it's really just putting yourself in that uncomfortable

position over and over and over. It's sort of like, if you want to get good at job interviews, go to a lot of job interviews. You'll feel a lot more comfortable on that 10th job interview than you doing that first job interview. Yeah. So do you give recommendations on where to put your, to put these guys in a situation like, Oh, maybe you should take a yoga class. Maybe you should take a i don't know i'm just like throwing it out there like uh where more women would be versus like i don't know i'm just saying a bar or a grocery store grocery stores are great by the way that's a great one um but do you kind of give them like based on their personality or do you just like here just try a bunch of stuff and see what sticks

so that that's a great question uh and there are certainly places with a lot more women like a yoga class uh and uh i was just listening to one of your uh other recent podcasts talking about holiday parties great place to meet women uh if your friends have parties that's another great place to meet women however to practice this stuff you want to do this in a place where uh, messing up won't have any adverse consequences. Okay. Okay. So, um, a holiday party, um, you can meet women there, but what happens if you creep out a woman at a work holiday party problems, right? What happens if you creep out a woman at, what if, what if you go to yoga and you creep out a girl at a yoga studio? Now, again, you know, ideally you're not going to

creep women out you're not going to turn women off but realistically it's going to happen sometimes you you say something you know you're practicing this stuff you say something a little weird she takes it weird some women are just very skittery and would get creeped out by almost anything a guy says right yes this it's a very um it's one of those situations where you want to have room to make mistakes where it's not gonna come back and you know but you on the butt right you wanna um and it's gonna you're gonna have enough for a guy that has this fear you're gonna you're gonna be processing these these interactions especially once you start talking to her you're gonna have some great interactions where she's super friendly and she's like oh yeah i try this bread it's

amazing i cook with it all the time right you feel like you could have a conversation with her some of them are just going to be neutral where she's like yeah i heard that's good bread and some of them are going to be negative she's going to be like i don't know i don't work here right and you might feel a little weird you might be like what you know when you walk away and but as you as you process all these different types of interactions you're going to realize hey okay i can handle this i didn't like it when she was kind of mean to me but i can handle it and it's what i'm willing to go through to meet women. But if you do that in some place like a yoga studio or a holiday party or a friend's party, you've got a lot less room to play around. Now, practicing this stuff,

getting confident with women outside of those situations, the best place you can do it is with strange women that you can practice on where it doesn't matter. But once you go back into those situations, that yoga studio, that work holiday party, that, that party that your friend is throwing, you're going to feel way more confident because you've already been talking to women. You don't know now this is a woman, you know, it's just going to feel that much easier. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Practice on the strange women, men, you know I, it kind of brings me back to, I was shopping at Whole Foods randomly and I don't know. I go all different times a day, men, listen, go all different times of days

and different days, even as different grocery store, change it up. Don't get comfortable with that because I feel like a lot of people meet like here at Whole Foods. It's crazy. But a guy was like, we were both getting milk. I don't remember. And he was like, I was, I had sandals. This must be in the summer. And he said, wow, you have really pretty feet. Did you, have you ever gotten asked or have you ever been told that before and i said well thank you yes i have like you know thank you yes i have and then it was like maybe he was practicing you know it was like nothing further and it was just a nice compliment and it was a smile and a thank you um so it could have been a practice or it could have been like that's all he had you know so maybe he really did

think you had pretty feats yeah i mean it could have been simple and innocent right yeah and that and that's a great way to go to uh instead of asking hey have you tried this bread you could give a simple compliment uh i i really like your jacket that's a great color on you or the uh that's amazing purse or love your shoes or your hair is fantastic whatever cute dog those that's those are all a great, really easy way to start. And I would advise guys to give themselves the leeway to not take it any further, right? If they're not used to giving a woman a compliment and continuing the conversation, make that your goal. Just go out and compliment one woman every day. Don't put pressure on yourself to continue the conversation because if you ease up on that

pressure to continue the conversation, it'll allow you to take that first step and get comfortable with that first step. And then once you've been doing that for a week, then continue the continuing conversation, maybe say, Hey, that's a great jacket. Um, I'm looking for a Christmas gift for my sister. You know, where could I get something like that? Right. Or something like that. Right. But, but give yourself that, you know, the option to not continue the conversation. yeah that's really good that's really good advice because if he would have said oh by like if he would have maybe gone further with it i feel like it wouldn't have come off as genuine really like yeah i felt like it may have been like oh you have great feet oh can i get your number or something

i'm just using that as an example like yeah it would have been like oh that's kind of you just ruined everything yeah gotcha yeah no and i think i think it depends how you do it too right how transition from that compliment to, to, to more conversation. Yes, of course. And I know that that's, I don't know if that's step four, but we got you on to step four. Wow. You're progressing fast. I'm going too fast for you today. You're a very good student. And that is exactly step four is, is how do you continue the conversation transition, right? How do you, right. And again, once you've gotten comfortable with saying one thing and walking away, then you're going to start to push it a little more, right? You might say, hey, have you tried this bread? She says yes

or no, it's not good. And then you say, well, I'm trying to, you know, I'm going to a dinner party and I'm trying to figure out what to bring, but what do you recommend, right? You're continuing this a little further. You're pushing the conversation. You're getting comfortable with staying in a little longer right that's going to be there's there's there's inhibitions at every level of this which is why you're just pushing a little further a little further a little further pushing that envelope expanding your comfort zone yeah so another grocery store example um a guy came up to me one day like i had i didn't even see him i was pushing the cart like we'd never made eye contact. It wasn't, you know, a little innocent flirting. Oh, he looked at me.

Oh, he's kind of cute. None of that was, uh, was happening. And he literally just tapped me on the shoulder and said, Oh, uh, you're good looking. Would you go on a date with me? And I was like, I mean, complete, uh, disconnect on my end because it wasn't even, we didn't even have a conversation. It was just very, almost to the point where it was like, okay, let me just see who I can, who will say yes to a complete stranger. Yes. So if he had talked to you a little bit first, if you'd said, Hey, I saw you here and I thought you were really cute and I want to come say hi, maybe introduced himself, said, hi, my name's Eric. And then said, you know, what brings you out today or you know where you're coming from where you're going something a little more

conversational you think you would have felt more comfortable a hundred percent yeah i mean eye contact is probably the first thing that we pay attention to because if somebody is not making eye contact with me they're they're in their zone they're doing their thing which is totally like respectable you're doing your thing um or they're it says to me from a woman's point of view they're taken they're just or whatever they're not they're not here to to actually meet or anything so that's that's a huge uh anyways i'm sure you talk about contact yeah and i and i would say eye contact at the right time and that's something guys can do too when they practice this is if they talk to her they can practice looking her in the eyes and they can try and

make it a goal to remember what color her eyes were right yeah so what okay i'm gonna ask her you know uh about this bread and talk to her about this dinner party let me see if i can remember what color her eyes were and that'll help him maintain eye contact and active listening too right absolutely yeah even if it's for a minute or 30 seconds or whatever well and it's funny you say that because when when you're very inhibited and your body is you have all these feelings running through your body, right? Because, uh, it's difficult to actively listen. It's even difficult to pick up on signals from her, right? I'll have guys who go in and start talking to a girl. I'll watch him. She'll be smiling. And, you know, after a minute, he'll be like, all right,

see you later. And it comes back over to me and he'll think she didn't like him, but she was smiling. She was like receptive to him, but he's so locked up that he can't read those signals. And that comes with practice. The more you get comfortable doing this, the more you are able to read her signals, listen to what she said. If she says, what kind of dinner party are you going to? You're not just going to say, oh, maybe I should bring pickles instead. You're going to say, oh, it's some of my friends from the philosophy club I'm in. And you're going to be able to go deeper. mm-hmm yeah no that works uh i'm sure you teach on body language as well right it's important it's huge yeah well i and i give this example even as an image consultant this is something that we were taught uh she could be saying yes because she's uncomfortable or like just to kind of brush somebody off just uh yeah yeah yeah but you know she's closed up her arms are closed or feet are pointed in the direction of the exit or something. So I know that this is

like beginning stages of getting comfortable with speaking with women. Right. Um, I'm sure there's a point, right. Where they're like, okay, I'm comfortable with talking to them. Now I can kind of, like you just said, active listen and to what they're saying. And so I'm sure at that point, they're trying to kind of pay attention to her body language as well or is that later but um i would advise guys more to think about their own body language first right okay it's important because when practicing these steps guys as i mentioned before with the woman who was smiling and he didn't see it guys tend to overread signals of rejection like this type of guy that has this approach anxiety tends to over uh you know she does something little oh

she turned away from me slightly she must hate me this is you know I gotta leave right now you know when maybe she was just you know she was crossing her arms maybe because she was kind of interested instead of crossing her arms because she hated you now of course you know if she's like I gotta go you're gonna let her go yeah but for for practicing these steps at the beginning i would say don't over analyze her body language in fact if you can try and interpret as much as you can as positive yeah right um and just kind of keep going if you can keep going in the conversation until you're sure she's like okay she's not interested she's she was like she's kind of walking away right she's like she's got one step out and she's stepping away from me okay she's

not interested i got it i got no problem right i mean the the the guys that i coach tend to be pretty good at reading the signals of rejection okay does that make sense yeah so you don't want to over interpret right right that makes sense okay so where are we are we at step five yeah what is that so uh step five is transitioning from uh this conversation about uh the bread or you know your jackets or what time the bar closes into personal conversation about her right you know we're talking about this dinner party i may say i'm you know i go to these philosophy dinner parties i'm into philosophy right i may say something to her like uh you look like a girl that reads a lot or you look like you spend a lot of time in the library i'm being a

little more flurry right and then you might respond what what would you say celeste if i said that to you that's that one stumps me okay thank you i mean i really don't know what to say to that one yeah let's say you're really into me you're really attracted to me okay you know i've been telling you about all these cool things about myself and i say okay i say you you look like you look like you read a lot what might you say to me oh well thank you like if i'm really into you and like oh well maybe we could go to this dinner party together yeah or or you might say if you read you might say do you

read a lot do i yeah quite a bit but you know relationships okay okay so so you might say that to me you might say yeah i actually do read a lot and i'd say what what do you read about what's your favorite you said relationships and dating wow interesting okay uh what what's your uh what's what's the most interesting thing you read lately about relationship and dating? Right. I might ask you that. Right. Right. And now you're, you're ready to answer Celeste. You're like, yeah, there's like this conversation. Yeah, exactly. Right. So now, now we're talking about, about you, right. We're not talking about this loaf of bread. I just picked up. We're not talking about what time the bar closes. We're not talking about, uh, you know, that whatever

you're wearing, right? This is something that's actually interesting to you. And I'm getting to know you as a person, right? Yep. I think that's probably a little easier if you're like, I'm just going to stay at a bar. I mean, you can go so far in the grocery store, right? I mean, I guess if you're really into someone you make, but like normally people are kind of in, they have a list they're you know maybe running errands like it's a little bit more um she may come off a little bit more aloof and it's not because maybe she's not into you but maybe because she's just like she's got stuff to do so i could see the conversation building if she's like okay i'm sitting down i'm having a drink and i'm here to kind of like relax a little bit right yeah so so bars are a double

edge sword bars can be great for exactly the reason that that you said that they that people are there to have conversations they're there to socialize they tend to be in one place right she's you know at a grocery store she she might be moving around really quick it might be difficult to stop anywhere near her uh but at the same time uh a lot of guys may not like hanging out in bars right i mean it could be more chilled if you go during like a happy hour where there's not that many people but bars tend to be loud you know people are there with their friends right it's sometimes harder to talk to a girl when she's with her friends it can be easier of course if you know how to do it but uh if you're if you're new to talking to people you don't know it can be more

difficult uh there there are other aspects of a bar that can can be challenging to guys yeah so you can go the bar route absolutely but um and i i suggest guys try both ways but most guys i i coached for these first steps tend to do it not in bars yeah no it makes sense because especially if you deal with anxiety and honest any kind of level being around crowds and loud noises and that's just like not your thing i mean you know uh i have like really great dates for people that are more introverted and not as like boisterous and so yeah like what kind of dates so i recommend like going you know well if you live somewhere and it's you've got some great nature go on a hike go do something where you are together but not necessarily

like one-on-one too you're going to do an activity uh maybe um i don't know you find something that's a little bit more quiet like you're not going to go to a loud restaurant or a are going to find maybe a cozier spot if you want to have some conversation that time like you said where it's not super busy um yeah i've got a list of of stuff but yeah on that note someplace someplace you could play pool or do exactly that type of activity which there's not all this pressure you know sitting face to face at a bar so tell me about yourself it's like this yeah it can be a lot overwhelming yeah go go do something that you've always wanted to try like stand-up paddleboarding and kayaking i don't know it doesn't have to be an outside sport but

some type of activity maybe you want to go ice skating i mean you know there's other people around but yet you're having a great time so yeah yeah but uh on that note um so he is super comfortable he's having this banter with this woman in the in the grocery store there she's talking about her interests and he's ready to go to step six what is that step six are you sure you're ready for this celeste this is a big step oh yeah i'm ready all right let's do it so uh step six is to find something about her that's really interesting and meaningful to you that you can appreciate okay you want to be able to say you know what that i really like this about you that's your goal is to find something about her that you can say

okay i really like this about you so so that you're not so that when you do try to ask her out on a date try to move things to the next level with her she has this feeling of like he okay he likes something about me as a person it wasn't just my looks that he saw that that was interesting it was something so so you told me that uh you you know you like to read books about dating and i asked you what what's the most interesting thing you learned lately um and you told me and now i could say uh you know what that's that's really interesting i you know i learned something new today i didn't expect that tell you what let's let's meet for a drink next week i i have more questions about you right so it's a very different kind of feel than

than just stopping conversation and being like hey give me your phone number let's go out on a date right right does that make sense yeah yeah well she's comfortable and I think any chance of getting a date would be to make her comfortable right I mean yes he's struggling to go through the steps and he's learning and strengthening his uncomfortability if you will but at the end he has made her feel non-threatened welcome interested so that she is saying yeah that sounds great yeah and not just comfortable i mean you can be comfortable with a friend right so it's not just about comfort that's part of it um well it's yeah interested it's more it's a little there's this like kind of emotional connection she has with you right that out of everybody she

knows you found this thing about her that you appreciate that maybe nobody else knows about right she has all these people at work she has all these friends and in that in those few minutes that you met her this guy found something about you to appreciate that men she's gotten out on dates with, you know, on two hour long dates with having found to appreciate her. Right. So she feels like, wow, this guy is interesting. He's intelligent. He can read me. I want to spend more time. Yeah, I love it. This is like the point at which some men are comfortable, very comfortable with getting to five and six, but like you said, there's a lot of guys that aren't. And do you, other than evolution, do you think a lot of it, I think that it comes with social media

being behind the screen COVID, um, less and less human interaction has almost made this particular, uh, and good for you for coaching, but you're like, you know, it's made human interaction a lot less comfortable absolutely yeah yeah i mean there's you can you can sit in front of your screen all day at work and then go home and sit in front of more screens your tv screen your your dating app screens all of these screens and uh your your body is is withering in a sense that's that social muscle, that comfort, sorry, uh, that comfort with interacting with people in real time. Yeah. Uh, being present in the moment, right. Instead of, uh, thinking about what you're going to say, what you, what you've said and worrying about all that we can be present here in the

moment. And you can't do that when you're behind the screen, when you're texting, when you're right and so and without enough of that your body you what you said in the beginning celeste was absolutely right like this is a muscle right that muscle just withers if you don't work out that muscle uh and and what i'm prescribing to men these steps is is a workout something that you can do with your body you can go every day you can build that muscle you can strengthen it uh you can put yourself out in the world instead of sitting home. Like sometimes I still practice this stuff. And sometimes when I, you know, I live in the suburbs now. And so there's, there's, I have to go out to a lot of places if I'm going to meet women. And sometimes I'll find myself

walking around target being like, you know, I'm looking for women to meet. I'm like, is this weird? Like, why am I here? Why I should just go home. And then I'm like, what am I going to do at home? just sit in front of a screen and watch tv and no like at least i'm out in the world i'm i'm doing something i'm doing something physical with my body i'm getting stronger yeah um and this is this is a way that you can build that muscle i love it and i also think like it's also a great idea if you would like have them and maybe you do this like write a list of all these things that maybe you've never tried or maybe you want to try because maybe you don't know if you like it and just kind of like go and do right and even something as much as that will have create more

confidence in approaching somebody because absolutely it's just like like I mean it's such a Goggins like everybody says it get comfortable with being uncomfortable you know and it's just like the more and more you do this I feel like you're just going to be more successful right Yeah. And those extracurricular activities, if you go kayaking or if you go to, you know, art gallery opening, even if you don't talk to a woman there or even if there's no women there, you still have an interesting experience that you could talk to women about, right? um yeah i just went kayaking the other day i almost died i was like okay that's an exaggeration i didn't almost die but i felt like it right there's there's something you know instead of saying like yeah what did i do this week well i just watched a lot of movies and tv and and surf the internet it's like you're not interested that's not gonna be you're not gonna be able to

connect right you gotta be interesting you have to have a little bit of mystery too that's also very attractive to women not spilling too much guys please don't on your first date don't tell me everything I don't want to know it it's like it's such a turn off but this is so great and I mean why do you think this is so important for men to learn this skill or how how would you say why is it important for men to learn how to do so so this to me is the the base one of the basic building blocks for their confidence um if you you may end up and a lot of a lot of men have and i i did in the past you may end up in some relationship just by random coincidence maybe a woman talks to you meet some woman at

work or through a friend and that's great those relationships are fine but you may not have the confidence in that relationship that you need like let's say she you know starts pulling away from you and you might get uh insecure and start pulling her more towards you instead of backing up and saying wait a second she's pulling away from me she's uh losing interest in me you know what, that's fine. Like I can go meet new women. I've done it before and I'll do it again. But if you don't have that confidence in yourself to go out and meet new women, you're not going to be able to be that confident guy in that relationship that, you know, just brushes off. Yeah, she's doing that. You know what? Let her do her thing. I'm not going to chase after her. I'm going to

be the confident guy. Let her come back to me. Right. Because I can go out and meet new women anytime. Right. And of course, you're not going to just run out and meet a new woman every time she acts up, but you, you have that inner confidence where you can say, okay, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to walk away for a day or, or an hour or whatever it is. And because, you know, what, what you did was unacceptable in the relationship. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And I think, uh, women can see it just, just like guys can see it, right. When someone is not secure with themselves and i don't know about you but for me it's a huge turnoff um i don't know why that is such a trigger for me but it's not for everybody it's just for me

i see that and it's if i if i see any kind of neediness or like she's gonna pull away and i'm just like gonna fall apart that's just like yeah so i don't know what that is but anyways turn off, right? It is. I mean, vice versa, right? I mean, nobody wants a clinger. But so, yeah, no, go ahead. Go ahead. No. And there, I would say there is no other way to build up your confidence, like then walk like this much than, than walking up to women you don't know and talking to them and starting conversation. You know, you can go on a lot of dates and get better of dates, but even on a date, you're, you know, you're there for an hour with her. You're worried about messing up, saying the wrong thing. You're going to play it safe. Right. Like you really need

this field to play around in, to, to build up your confidence as a man. And, and, you know, you can build up your confidence in other ways. You can become, you know, an expert at hunting or just something cool, but that doesn't always translate to women, right. To, to being confident with women you could be an olympic gold medalist and still not be able to talk to women right it'll make it easier to meet women but you might still be stammering and locked up yeah this right here is is the way to do it if you need to build your confidence with them no you made a really good point right um i think men have something that they usually are really great at whether it's their career maybe they're an athlete something in their life maybe it's more than one thing but

they're super confident in that area, but you're right. Approaching a woman that's beautiful is so scary. I was absolutely like, yeah, it's, it's so this, this is great. All of these tips are so great. Um, you, and, and I like the fact that you don't say, well, you need to pay attention to her body language first. Like, is she flirting? Is she like smiling and engaging? Because they might not have that ability to get to that point yet and so absolutely these steps are just yeah this is great i don't think i've had anybody start off the way that you that you've created this book so kudos to you um and why do you say that these men will be more attract like they'll meet more attractive women in person than online dating that's a good one so

online dating is very efficient at this point it's a very efficient market so if you're you know kind of an okay looking guy you can meet an okay looking girl right it'll match you up pretty well and you can get, and you can get that right. But what everyone's looking for is that kind of that angle, like, you know what, I want to meet somebody more attractive, more interesting than I have before. Right. Cause I'm not really happy where I'm at. I could, I've gone out on internet dates and the kind of women that, that I meet that are attracted to my photos. It's just not getting me what I want, right? When you go out and talk to these women, you are cutting to the front of the line. They can see your confidence. They can't see the

confidence of these people in these apps, right? They think they're confident. They might say something in their profile that sounds confident. They may say something that's witty. But this guy didn't do anything that risky he sent a message over an app right you took a risk by walking up to her and talking to her you took a risk in real time you put yourself out there you walked across those hot poles you were able to demonstrate your confidence to her that none of those other men in that in her phone in her pocket were able to do right she could swipe all day none of those men could do that in real time you came up to her you talked to her you engaged her right you may or may not get her but the women that you'll meet first of all you know you're attracted to her a lot of

these women you meet from these online dating apps like you get on a date you're like she doesn't look like her picture exactly you know you're attracted to her she knows she's attracted to you because you're so confident like confidence is like cleavage for women right they they can't resist it right and and so you know it may you're not going to get every woman you walk up to right you may get one in 10 right but that's still like if you can approach 10 women a week and get one woman that you're really attracted to out on a date right that's way better than all this like swiping and trying to, you know, and there's like way more, there tends to be more guys than women on these apps. And so you're competing with all these men and it's, it's just

not a good, it's, it's the odds are kind of against you. Yeah. That makes sense. The only thing I would say that, that online dating does is kind of filter out like, oh, I want, you know, paper wise but not physically you're right because oh my god i don't know about you but i i redo profile dating pics and profile bios and i want to say like 90 of the pictures are horrendous you know they don't capture they're terrible they're you know in a wife theater they're like in the you know or in the bathroom like you know it's just or it's like a mugshot or they look like a serial killer so i don't know it's just bad so yeah you and you get to a 2d picture versus somebody's personality and the way they come across and and who they are yeah that makes sense

but that filtering is a double-edged sword also because uh women will filter you out like say you're not talking right she might say i don't want a guy under this height which which may be that height, but guess what? You can still walk up to her at shock, right. And, uh, ask her if she's tried the avocados, right. And, and pull her in that way. Right. And she'll be like, okay, I don't normally date guys that are shorter than me, but he was so confident. He was so cool. Right. It's not a risk for me to go out on a date with a guy that's shorter than me. If I know I'm attracted to him. Yeah. That's so funny because I'm addicted to these dating shows, right because it's like research yeah uh anyways and it's exactly what one of the

hottest women on the shows was like he's like he was taller than her but like I guess she likes guys you know ginormously taller so she's like he's shorter than I like but she totally dug him and it was like his personality and you know it was a good looking guy too it was just like this height thing. I'm like, he's still taller than you. Like, I don't know. It just, yeah, it's so true though. Yeah. So those are some great examples of why people should meet in person. Why do you feel that being able to meet women is the most important foundation for any relationship? and why do you feel like this is so that that goes back to to what i said before about yeah about how if you don't feel like you have the confidence to go out and meet new women

you're going to be more insecure in your relationship okay okay so i have this really interesting question. I saw something about sex that you talked to your clients about. What do you, okay. You're talking about the very simple, basic approach, how to approach a woman. So then you jump to like, I coach these guys on sex or you talk to them. And what is the where are they at? Are they in this relationship already or is this something that is early conversations with them? So. Yeah, it might be women that they've met through approaching or they've met through online or through their social circles, women they've met anywhere. uh i would say i talked to them more about sexual escalation in other words okay you meet this woman for a date uh and you want to uh progress things to the bedroom

either on the first day the second day the third day however quickly you're both interested in doing that uh and as a man you want to get her comfortable with that how do you get her into your bedroom right how do you get her comfortable with sex right this this involves physical contact in certain ways with her right you can't have sex with her until you touch her first right so you you're going to have to on the date like early on in the day you're going to want to implement touching maybe she says something interesting and you say wow that's so interesting and you touch her on the floor right now we've touched right now we're touching um you may bring in some sexual conversation in some way right you may ask her a question like uh you know what what

what do you find is the sexiest part of a man right what's is it his shoulders his what what's what's the sexiest part of managing just something like that you know you could play around with questions like that that start to get more and more sexual yeah uh you could play little games like physical games like hey let's thumb wrestle things like that um you're amping up the sexual energy getting her excited as well as yourself right if if all we've been talking about is uh model trains for the last hour and then i say hey you know what let's go let's go back to my place let's get out of here um chances are she's not going to say yes unless she's really into model trains um but but not only that i'm i'm not going to feel interested and sexual and turned on

and she's going to see that and it's just not going to be you know a very interactive uh an interactive thing at that point does that make sense well yeah you have to start flirting and you have to start you know creating if you will foreplay right exactly and you want to make sure they're not friend zone so if you the sexual escalation if it's going nowhere it's flat or she's turning you down or something's like well then maybe that's not where it's going for her and you can do that over text too you can amp up the foreplay over text too yeah it's tricky yeah is there any is there anything you recommend to guys uh to introduce foreplay yeah um well definitely i would say really how the first date is going um i feel like if it's

brought in too soon like if it turns sexual really fast it's just kind of like okay he just wants to hookup and maybe that's not what I really, really want to find somebody that I'm interested or long-term relationship or whatever that is. So, but I honestly feel like if there is, you should have some type of flirty conversation by the end of the date. Um, even if it's like, wow, that dress, your legs look so sexy or your, you know, your ass looks great in those jeans, you know it's just yeah and then feeling the chemistry i and i get this question a lot um how do i know if she wants a kiss how do i know how am i reading like guys are like okay i want to kiss her like i want to see if there's chemistry and she probably does too

but if you're like you said guys overanalyze and they're like you know i always say it's okay to ask like just interesting can i have like i'd love to give you a kiss can i give you a kiss like you know and it's not in an awkward like you're this far away yeah you know you maybe you have your hand on the small of her back and if she's kind of leaning into you a little bit right there's there's little signs where she's either receptive or she's like yo i mean if she's pushing away then clearly maybe not right and maybe she's just uncomfortable maybe it's the second date for her right it's not always the first date so i i always tell them like give it a chance but really be perceptive of her body language how is she responding to you so yeah and and what if she

says no okay she's probably gonna say no i'm not interested or i don't kiss on the first date so first date means, okay, maybe the second or maybe the third, I'm respecting her enough because at the end of the date, I think the only way to know she's truly interested is making plans for the next date. Yeah. Um, absolutely. A hundred percent true. I mean, so, so, so if I, if I said something, something like, you know, can I kiss you? And she said, no um i i'm i would probably banter and have fun with it and say something like um yeah it's probably a good idea that we don't kiss i typically don't put out until the 14th date girl has to buy me dinner presents and take me on vacation yeah right just to kind of ease the

you know that tension and that sort of weirdness so it sort of comes back and she feels comfortable and I feel comfortable too right yeah that's okay yeah but I would let her explain she'll she'll say why she won't just say no she says no like that then she's like yeah if she's just like no it's like yeah she's like no you're like okay this is probably not going anywhere but I feel yeah yeah yeah what's the or sometimes no means not yet yes so depending on i mean for sure if she's not willing to go out on a date with you then yeah there's nothing you can do then then but if she's there with you like for example if she comes back to your apartment and you're having a few drinks

and you go for a kiss and she pushes you away again you could joke you could say something like yeah that you know whatever joke it off um keep hanging you might want to just keep hanging out with her yeah and try again in you know a half hour or so right you have more conversation because if she's there she's still interested right oh if she's in your apartment yeah she's but even if even if you're out on a date too I think like if you're out right she could always be like okay I want to go home I think it's good to kind of keep escalating and keep right and to me yeah if she's not attracted to me and I keep escalating and she's like all right no more I'm going home that that's good for me I want that I don't want to hang out with her for five hours

and her go home and say oh we're just friends i'd rather you know escalate at a certain pace you know i'll pull back i won't like just keep escalating you don't want to keep trying you know you pull back try again in a little bit but you want to make sure it's kind of going somewhere right very true yeah yeah i highly recommend that yeah and i and i feel like as you get more comfortable with it uh you'll be able to look you can read body language but you still i think you still need to ask sometimes like it's it's okay it's okay really because maybe the signs are a little mixed right because it can be or like you maybe like you said maybe i think she is not into me but she's like oh no i want him to kiss me you know so we don't always can't always 100%

read our body language so it's okay to ask i don't know yeah i so if i were gonna ask i was trying to think what i would ask i i mean i i would probably ask i would probably say something like you you look like like you want to kiss me but i can't tell or something that you know something a little more less direct maybe yeah yeah i guess whatever works for you yeah yeah i'm sure she'll appreciate that yeah but you know your lips like really kissable yeah that's great do you mind if i like go in and see what kind of lip gloss you're wearing i mean i don't know you know it's like no i like that i like that a lot let's see what that lip gloss tastes like i think that's great yeah you know especially if she puts on her lip lip gloss then

that's kind of a sign there too right uh if it's lipstick no she doesn't want to mess up her lipstick now oh yeah you don't want that lip gloss yeah lip gloss is this possibility so um i love that i think that's super super important um yeah i love that that's and every woman loves to be like she and i say this because some guys are just so direct meaning they just want to get like let's just go have sex like i want to be teased a little i want to be like i want to flirt i want that it's so much better too when you're having sex it's like i it's a build-up right and i think so many guys today are just like not hook up i i agree a thousand percent uh i i think i mean i enjoy that too i enjoy the build-up i like when a woman makes me wait a little bit

um or i do go in for the kiss and she says no um you know i i err on the side of being just a little more aggressive rather than being too unaggressive right i prefer to push it a little further yeah um but yeah i mean i i think i think for guys you want to you want to just keep kind of pushing that right like keep pushing that envelope like have conversation like women love conversation i love conversation to get the conversation more and more sexual talk about more sexual things see if you can inject that in um and then uh once your minds are racing and you're there is some physical contact it's just really easy to take it into the bedroom at that point i mean sometimes it requires a more direct move like the guy being like okay i'm gonna come

over and try and you know kiss you or i'm gonna make the move see if she goes with it or if she doesn't right back off and start talking more and more sexual conversation right if she's still there with you um if there's no sexual conversation and she's just like sitting there cross-legged like i'm not talking about this like then yeah you might want to end the night right yeah and i i would say too just from people that uh women that i know who are on dating apps and uh guys go right into the sex part and that's a really big turn off for women like it's just like you know can you give me an example yeah so like uh hey sexy what are you wearing like i you know that's hot when you've like kind of gotten to know someone a little bit right uh like i've gone on a few

dates with you and that's appropriate if i know that i'm into you but if you assume or like oh I want to go to the gym and watch you like being a hot outfit, you know, like it's just this first time. It's like, Ooh, don't do that. Like, yeah. The way that you escalate what women want. Yeah. It's, it's so important. It's it's yeah. There's a definite way to do it. That's going to make her feel comfortable. That's more flirty rather than

than uh straightforward right like um you know instead of saying like yeah what are you what are you wearing right now um you know you could say something like uh you know wear wear something cute when we meet up for or i hope you wear something cute when we meet up for our date or wear something cute so we match you know something like that is kind of more interesting and more fun for her it's a little bit flirty it's not like in her face that she has to respond to or would even keep it on like oh so what are you wearing to the date like what are you wearing I thought I'd wear this versus like if if someone was like well you better wear something cute I'd be like I guess I'm wearing a garbage bag then I don't know sometimes or sometimes I'll say let

let me know if you have trouble deciding what to wear yeah yeah okay yeah I like that but you're on the same page is what i'm saying you know you're you're going at the same pace and like like you said you're a little bit on the a little bit more aggressive side which is good because i think women also are from so many single amazing women out there that i've talked to or i know is that men don't put the effort they are the ones that are either like oh well what happened there's no chase women want to be chased a little they want to be like oh you know he thinks i'm cute or oh you know it's very um how we know we're desirable and so chase a little bit like that flirt a little bit like put the effort in so that's just from my grandmother used to say

he chased and chased and chased and then she caught him yes seriously my last two relationships both were he chased and chased and I was like and then we deeply fell in love so not to say that it can't happen without that but you know it's it's it's a fun game um okay so what on a personal level and then I'm going to um have you tell everybody where to find you where to buy your books, wait, the name of your book is. So what was your favorite date and what was it? Wow. My favorite date. That's a good question. Let me think about that for a second. um let's see um what was my favorite date yeah any time in your life yeah okay um so first of all to kind of

like I do tend to have a chill first date with a girl where I don't plan like kind of a crazy date you know like something super exciting like take her out to a club or a comedy show particularly on the first date right it's usually it tends to be a lot more chill like i like to go to a bar that's couches have a few drinks talk get to know her right so um it's hard for me to say it doesn't have to be a first date and it could be any time crazy thing and it doesn't have to be crazy i i guarantee you like most of the people that talk to me are something that just like something that made it just special to them yeah um i i remember i did one time go out with a woman who was into the same type of music as me like

electronic music and uh we went to this show and stayed out pretty late till like 2 a.m and then came home and uh yeah that was a pretty fun day okay yeah you shared something you had like some type yeah we shared kind of this experience on the dance floor and it was very like both musically artistically interesting as well as very erotic to be with her on the dance floor that's awesome and we had all this energy building us up over the evening that was nice to yeah to to release when we came home nice well thank you for sharing um okay so uh where can everybody listening today find you if they want to learn how to talk to women they just don't know how or to be coached by you or read your fantastic book. Sure. Well, my name is Eric Disco and my

website is approachanxiety.com. My book is called She's Six Steps Away. And you can find that on Amazon. There's also an audible version if you prefer to listen. I like to listen to a lot of audio books. Uh, and I also do one-on-one coaching. So if you're looking to do say like weekly coaching to hold you accountable as you go through this process, I'm available for that too. All right. Well, you have a wonderful day. Happy holidays. All right. Happy holidays, Celeste. All right. Take care. Bye. thanks for tuning in to today's episode come and hang out with me on instagram at celeste more image let me know your thoughts on today's episode because i always love hearing from you all you can

find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website celestemore.com okay that's all for now i'll see you in the next episode see you next time friends Thank you.