Moore Style - Navigating Life After Divorce with T.H. Irwin and Jessica Klingbaum

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

The entire process of divorce sucks, but that doesn’t have to be your journey forever. In this week’s episode, I am sitting down with two very special guests to talk about their experience of getting divorced at the same time and how that led them to create an online community helping others through all stages of divorce.  T.H. Irwin and Jessica Klingbaum tell us all about life after divorce, the negative stigma around it, and what jumping back into dating looked like for them. We even have a juicy conversation about their first sexual experience after coming out of their long-term marriages. If you’re curious about how to navigate life after divorce positively, make sure to tune into this episode! In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:44] About T.H. Irwin and Jessica Klingbaum [03:00] How getting divorced at the same time led them to help other women [07:46] The stigma around divorce [09:09] The importance of positive community & resources  [13:04] Dating after divorce [19:57] Why life is too short to settle  [25:14] Attracting people who are a match for where you are at in life [30:22] The most difficult part of jumping back into dating [36:06] Their first sexual experience after divorce [39:38] T.H. Irwin and Jessica Klingbaum’s favorite dates   Connect with T.H. Irwin and Jessica Klingbaum: Website Instagram Facebook LinkedIn TikTok Podcast

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena. So let's get into today's episode.

I want to welcome you to another episode of the Down and Dirty Podcast. As always, I am your host, Celeste Moore, and I just want to say thank you to everyone for listening to continue to learn and educate yourself so that you can be a better human. remember please leave a five-star rating and a great review it's always appreciated and it just always helps this podcast to be able to get seen more also don't forget to visit my website sign up for some freebies and I will be releasing some type of freebie every few months anyways let's leave it at that but before we dive into today's episode I want to introduce our guest today we have two guests. We have T.H. Irwin and Jessica Klingbaum. Is that correct? That's right. Okay,

perfect. I just want to make sure I'm saying that right. So they are two best friends who got divorced at the exact same time, and although they had completely different experiences, they were lucky enough to have each other through it all. Rising from the lack of resources, support, and information during their separate journeys, along with desire to help others maneuver through the process, they created Ex-Experts Online Community and Divorce Etc. Podcast. They're your reality check. They are an honest, encouraging, and positive space for everyone in any stage of divorce. There isn't a right way to divorce, but the Ex-Experts can help you find your way. They have lived, so they get it. So welcome, TH and Jessica. Thank you for

coming on today's show. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. I'm so excited to get into a little bit about your stories because obviously your biography just already wants me to ask so many questions. I'm like, we have so many stories. Just go for it. I know, right? So what decided you guys to take this path? I mean, it kind of already explains a little bit that the lack of resources, but when you both got together comparing notes where you're like, oh my God, this is something that we need to do. We need to share.

Go ahead. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we literally got divorced at the exact same time. We had known each other for many years. I've actually been married and divorced twice. My first husband and teach were best friends from high school. So we met when I was in college. Teach and I met.

We had a fun encounter. We actually don't become friends until after you've left. No, after college. Okay. And then after college, like, you know, the guys met. They were best friends. She and I were best friends. We got engaged within a month of each other, married within a month of each other, traveled around together.

Our sons were born a week apart. Like, living life together. and then 13 years into our marriages, within one week of each other, we found out that both of our husbands were cheating and covering for each other. So they were telling us that they were going away on guys trips

and we were home working and taking care of the kids and they were going away with their girlfriends as couples. Yes. So we started the divorce process. That's just the tip of the iceberg. It's just the beginning. They don't get off that easy. that wasn't just one trip but I said trips plural yes many many trips so we started the process at

the exact same time and our divorces were very different I actually had a very amicable divorce TH's was a little bit more not a lot yeah but every day we were in the weeds with each other what did your lawyer tell you today did you know about this you know did you know think about this don't forget to put this into your settlement whatever it was we were young we were younger than we weren't really at the age yet where people were starting to get divorced our kids were super young and so we would say to each other back then like oh my god can you imagine if we had to do this alone and we were like one day we need to figure out a way to pay it forward to anyone going through this because this sucks and if we didn't have each other every step of the way

what the hell would we have done right that was kind of how we felt so you both were married for I was just curious like 13 years you said right I was with my ex for 18 years in total I don't remember how long wow okay that's a long time more than 13 years it's not long enough not long enough I mean they were long till we got married very young yeah it just was you know a lot of people's marriages end from infidelity and for us it was really about like okay well how do we handle it moving forward and being able to be there for each other throughout it all, because you can totally get caught up in all of the resentment and the anger and, you know, yeah, everything. And it was like, how do we navigate this process where we can still enjoy our lives?

We're not the bad guys. You know, we deserve the opportunity to move forward in a positive way. And that's really, like, the basis and mission of ex-experts is, like, how to help people move through the muck and see that there actually is a light at the end of the tunnel. The whole process of divorce sucks. It doesn't matter if you're cheated on. It doesn't matter if you're the one that initiates the divorce, if you're the one that's told you're getting divorced. It doesn't matter. This is someone that you at one point presumably loved enough that you walked down the aisle with them, you know, and betrothed yourself to them. And now you're getting divorced.

And it's all kinds of awful. But it doesn't have to be forever. And we know there are a lot of people that are forever more stuck in the bitterness of whatever happened to them during their divorce. And we were like, not going to be those people. and and that was like a subconscious decision I mean we just that's just not our personalities like we just continue to go we just that's just kind of what we do we just move forward all the time and really having each other emotionally is what enabled us to do it so much better and easier without even realizing it and then once we realized it we're like holy shit we need to make this happen because this is not easy even the two of us doing it like we had each other's back mother's day first new year's eve who are you calling your first date who's not going to

criticize who's not going to judge who's going to listen like we were like in our own little pod right and we were very fortunate there's just so much stigma still around divorce and and we feel like part of our messaging in general is like we need to break down the stigmas of divorce Look, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. And it doesn't make you a bad person. And it's, you know, we need people to move on and be able to accept the fact that it doesn't mean that, you know, you're looking for like disposable marriages. It's just you had, you know, good intentions and it's okay. But, like, trying to find people that can empathize with you or listen and not be judgy and not be gossipy about it, it's not always easy. And so that's what we're here for. It's kind of crazy when you think of all the things that we're all talking about now, right? You can never talk about LGBTQA+, which wasn't even all of those letters to begin with.

Couldn't talk about mental illness. You couldn't talk about a sick child. I mean, those are all like, hush, hush. Now we are coming out and we are talking about it. We are happy to be the voices in front of those messages. Divorce sucks. It's an opportunity. It's something that happens.

Let's move forward through it and live your best life. That's it. I love that. I love your guys' mission because I think that if I were to have your resources, when I was divorced. I mean, so I was very, I was married very young too with a very short marriage and I didn't have my daughter at the time. So this was later in life, but I feel like I've had these two very significant relationships, that being the first one and then not being married to my daughter's father. But it was like, it's kind of like what you guys combined. I've almost

had in two different stages of my life, you know, and it's, it's hard. I think the biggest thing I would have really loved is some sense of community, some sense of like, oh my God, just not even looking for all the answers, but just having some camaraderie, you know? And it's like, I, you know, where do you find that? Unless it's like your children's, you know, possibly like someone else is going through a divorce in their school. I mean, when you have kids, your community is so much smaller, I feel than when you're younger. And a lot of people feel like it's contagious. And some people don't want their little kids to have playdates with your little kids because of who's supervising at home or what's that going to look like. And there are

a lot of Facebook groups out there that are supposedly community oriented, but there's a lot of toxicity in those groups. I mean, we've been in those groups. All people are doing is bitching and moaning about their exes the whole time. It's not helping people get to a better place. So people literally DM us and email us. We do private sessions. We talk to people. We have events like we do offer people the opportunity to connect with others and find the resources that they need because when we were getting divorced you could not find everything that you can find now on the internet but the problem is now there's so much out there you don't know who to trust everyone has an ulterior motive you can find an article about how to find the right lawyer

written by a lawyer who wants you to hire them you can find an article about why you need a forensic accountant written by a forensic accountant that wants you to hire them we're putting all the stuff out there and like these are all people that we vetted this is all information that's trusted and reliable and honest use it don't use it connect with these people don't connect with these people we're not getting a kickback if you hire that lawyer but these are people that we would be happy to work with and that we trust implicitly and are happy to have them as part of our community for everybody who needs the resources yeah yeah that's amazing that really is because like you said there's you're putting all of these experts together and it's

your decision who you want to work with you're giving little I think there's like little bios and information and yep you know that's it's amazing I you know that makes life like you said divorce is messy and it's ugly and no matter how it came about. And so here, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You can't get through this. Here are the resources. Yep. Yeah. And the stage after divorce, you know, we always talk about it. That's as difficult or even in some ways scarier than when you're getting divorced, because now you're like, holy shit, now what do I do? Where's my team? That's right. Right. You don't have all the people anymore around you that you We are there. We're there. You're not alone. So if you were going through your divorce right now, Celeste, or your breakup or, you know, single parenting, we would be your girls. Like, we're your girlfriends. We get it. It sucks. No bullshit. We'll guide you. We'll give you tools. We'll give you ideas of things to think about and new perspectives and, you know, just give you a place to be heard. And no, you're not alone. And you're not crazy.

you give the dirty on divorce that's right dirty on divorce i love it yeah so because you were both in long relationships what was it like when you first put your toes into the dating world or how long did i guess for you jessica and then i'll ask you th about how long was it for you when you decided like okay I'm ready like I've kind of gone through what I needed to I don't think it was very long necessarily I remember we had broken up in May and I and like that summer I had like a fling with someone that I had worked with previously that was like just a fun young like no strings attached kind of a thing and I think that that kind of like helped me like because when you get out of a relationship and it is because your spouse

cheated on you I've always had a very healthy self-esteem but like you're crushed in a way that I don't know happens from other things like you definitely are in a situation where you want to be able to still feel attractive and feel like someone thinks you're pretty and whatever so I think that that was good for my own personal morale. And then I wasn't really dating all that much. But that following December, so about nine months out, I met someone randomly through some friends that turned into a five-year relationship. I was not intentional about that. After that ended and then after my second marriage ended like I've been very intentional about dating and like making the effort and doing the things that you know that you need to do to get out there

but I feel like that sort of just happened really organically and it it was great for you know for what it needed to be but I I don't know that I ever really got to a point where I'm like I'm ready to start dating but I was kind of happened yeah I think people I maybe I had been set up a couple of times that fall it just I was working crazy hours and like getting home super late at night at a job that I loathe during that time and I and like my kids were really little and I just move like I just think I had kind of a lot going on like okay if there's an opportunity to go out with someone I will but it wasn't I wasn't after like I wasn't on the apps yet it wasn't like but I was in it that was more after like a breakup after a relationship that happened

after your separation that we like we were on a tear to date it wasn't right after the marriage ended it was more like after that first relationship ended and then you're like on a tear on the apps it's a job organize go like it you know um for me it was I wasn't I wasn't so interested in dating I also had to relocate back to our original town I was thrilled to be out of my marriage but I also had a lot of self-esteem issues I'm like looking at her and I'm like well my legs aren't as skinny as hers and I may have actually bought her boobs but my boobs don't look like that and I I just I was like so into comparing myself to her that I didn't feel confident no no no to the my husband was cheating on me uh well that's that's why not to right so

I think I was like really consumed by that and then he moved her here like three weeks after we separated so she was like all in my face all the time so I just had a little trouble with that but my first kind of date was this guy who I had a total crush on in high in college and he knows this and he just happened to have found me on Facebook by the way everybody this was in 2008 so you know don't judge no and I was there too I was like look I found you can you believe I found you we totally flirted in college and we were great flirty friends after college and then whatever so we went out and I like spent hours what's my outfit what am I gonna wear my hair I dressed in all white it would have been simpler white tank top white pants like clean and easy and we talked

for like hours, hours. It was such like, that was getting my toe, you know, stepping, dipping in a little bit because it just brought back my confidence. I had been a shell of a woman for many, many years. There was zero intimacy. There was no love. If anything, it was loathing. So there was like, I was, I was starved and didn't even know I was starved, but it started with the basics like being nice yes and and you know making you smile making you feel confident he was the perfect person to like shoot the shit with and and talk about all he's like all right tell me what the fuck happened like you're not gonna believe this so we were like in the story together and then after that I was set up with somebody and it was a hot mess oh shit and I

knew that I shouldn't have been set up I said to the guy do not I don't want to be in somebody else's shithole and that's exactly where I landed because the guy he set me up with this guy let's say his name is John set me up with Peter John was cheating John was sleeping with Peter's wife so that's why John sent me up with Peter oh my god and Peter and his wife had separated until she realized that peter and i were hooking up and then she blew a casket and it still ended and i was almost more pissed after that breakup in my in my marriage because i was thrilled but this one i was like you know the shit i've been through and you fucking did this to me i hope we can curse on the show yes you can just pouring out of my mouth right now it's all good that's

that was that was like pivotal for me in terms of relationships sex but I definitely got my myself back and I unleashed let's just say in that relationship and I was like all right he's a jerk say the least and I'm good for a little while more so it depends on like what the breakup was like kind of determined what happened next now that we're like really talking about it. Yeah. Because, you know, your needs are very different when you end a marriage of 13 years, especially with someone who you've not had any intimacy, comfort, happiness with for so long. You just want someone to tell you you're pretty. Yeah. And hold the door, maybe. And then that would be a great date. The bar is really low at this point, right? I was just going to say,

and you know, for everyone listening, like we've all been there. If you've like been through a bad break up and, and, and the bar is really low, but you, you really have to know inside and tell yourself, like, you deserve the things that you want. You deserve the things that you're looking for. Like, you know, well, he's great because he does this, even though he's, he never does this. And it would be really nice if he always does this. Like there, I have a male friend and he's like, but you know, isn't everyone always settling in a way? Like, do you really think that we can have it all and I feel sad when he and I talk about that because I think he's so settling with where he is right now and I feel like you just have to not be in a rush and I I know what it

feels like to feel lonely but like the bar is so low when you get out of a relationship that someone gives you like an inch and you're like oh my god this is the greatest guy on earth or whatever. And you have to recognize like what you really deserve. You I mean, you said it was it's so profound, too, because, yes, you deserve all of these things that and more. But I think it's building that confidence up, too, because like you've just been, oh, my God, like cheated on and you know what the girl looks like. And she's like, I mean, just slapped in the face. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I think that rebuilding that up takes time, you know, and it's it's I think it's a it's a couple of things. Right. It's finding out what it is you don't want in your relationship, your next one, getting crystal clear what you do want and what you do expect and what you are going to say. this is a for sure not a oh well maybe and valuing yourself to know that like you know what

if I don't get all of these 10 then I'm not going to settle but also to realize like the longer amount of time you spend with someone when you know that in your gut and deep down in your heart they're not the right person you're preventing yourself the opportunity from actually meeting the right person. I had a woman friend who had gotten divorced and was whatever, dated a bunch of people. And there was like this one guy that she was sort of in a relationship with for a few years and she really wanted more and he clearly did not. And I would say to her, like, you think she would say, like, I'm open to meeting other people. And I'm like, but you're not open to meeting other people because you don't understand that there's you have an emotional

block because you're kind of comparing everybody to him because you're wishing that he would come around and all of the time that you continue pining after him you're closing yourself off to the opportunity when you're out your head is not open you're not like expansive enough to let in the opportunity so I think it's important for people to know like stay with someone who you know isn't isn't the person you're potentially missing out on other opportunities to meet the person you totally do not want to just exist and you want if you want to live then you need someone who's a partner you need someone who you're growing with and look relationship work don't work out because you're not growing in the same direction and that's okay it doesn't have to

be like he cheated or an addict doesn't have to be like a whole bunch of drama you could just be two adults and who are like, you know what, this just isn't working out and move on from it. Life is too short to just settle. I settled for many years. I compromised myself, my dignity, everything. And I did it a few times in some relationships afterwards because I really believe that as difficult as Peter was and the other guy after that, the other guy after that, they all served as lessons for me. So literally I needed that experience to get another slap in the face and be like, TH, wake the F up. Right. You're doing it again. This is not enough. And it, and it's hard to know what your worth is when you're coming out of a marriage. And from us, you know, we're

speaking from a place of being cheated on. It's hard to know what your worth is. What am I worth if he's with her? What am I, am I worth like nothing? You know, like this is all part of your growth process. This is part of the opportunity that divorce gives you to wake up, open your eyes, open your ears, and really see and hear what's going around you instead of floating through it all and pushing it down and pushing it away. Be fully in the moment. So you're like, huh, I didn't even know this was happening. I wasn't paying attention, which is fine, but then pay attention right or the fact that you're in denial right that's a big one right we get because you don't have the strength yet to face it we are all about therapy therapy

with the right person will help with so many of these things but also people like being so worried like i'm never gonna find someone i mean listen right everybody goes through it we've all had that feeling we've all gone through that stage where you have all of these unsuccessful dates or you can't muster up the energy to even really start dealing and the idea of going on the apps is so overwhelming and the idea of having to like do your hair and pick an outfit and go out and you're like for what like we we all understand it but you you just have to like recognize that the effort is worth it but if you it really is true look I think every self-help guru is all about you know you have to be comfortable with being alone you have to be comfortable with who you

are you have to like who you are and and you can hear the words and like I always felt like well I do like myself I like who I am but there was you know a certain stage in in all of these years where I was like I really had to be comfortable and I got to that point like and it took a little while where I was really comfortable to be like I would rather not that I was not interested in dating but I was okay with a night in and I was okay being alone because I felt like okay I would rather look for a higher quality person than spend my time with a lower quality person just for the hell of being out. I thought you were going to say, I'd rather look for a show to watch on TV and do my hair and go out on TV. Oh, no, you know me. I was, I really, I'm probably one

of the few people who like always. You rally. Yeah. I always enjoyed the dating process. I'm super social. I love going out. I live in New York city. I love taking advantage of it. I'm all about all of that but I don't need to like go on the third date or the fourth date with someone that I'm like there is no chemistry here yeah this is never gonna go anywhere in my head then I'd rather say thanks but no thanks and and stay home you know and try to look for someone who's a better fit yeah that's I mean that's super smart right because I mean it's like you're wasting your time And I think a lot of people do. They're like, oh, well, there's like this one quality.

OK, I'll go on the next one. I don't like hate him yet. Right. I mean, listen, first dates can be awkward. I think if there's anything like, you know, redeeming where you're like, I don't know, like it wasn't an awful date. He's cute. He seems really nice. He's interesting.

He's super smart. Like, I don't know, even if, you know, I would go on the second or third. And then but I feel like if you know right away. Nah, you ended a few. You're like, it's not going anywhere. It's done. We're out. Yeah, because I learned, you know, A, either my own personal things that are red flags, but also you just kind of know who you are. It's a waste of your time. Yeah. I have learned I was in two longer term relationships between my marriage and my forever relationship that I'm in now that you meet people where you are. So I met Peter, who gave me a shred of nothing, because that's where I was in my growth. I was like literally fresh off the bus I mean I knew nothing and then when I met the other guy

who I was with he was it was great because I got out of town and I wasn't telling my kids I was dating and so that was like super exciting and that was about like being sexy and like exploring sex again like in a different way than I'd ever with my husband that's for damn sure and then that was my lesson, but he still met me where I was. He was never growing beyond that point. And I was ready to grow more. I learned and I wanted more and he was good at in that space. And so I think that you attract people who match where you are right now. And that's what you're attracted to. And, and that's fine, but grow from it. Don't get stuck there unless it's, unless you have like really maxed out you know I I'm always growing but in terms of my own personal growth and stuff

I am I am where I need to be I'm 100% where I need to be and if I had met him two months earlier I wouldn't have met him I would have gone yeah you wouldn't have gone out again well all relationships are life lessons right we learn something from them and I hate that when someone's like, it's a failure. It's a failure. I'm like, well, you needed to go through this for a certain reason. And so, like you said, if you met him two months earlier, it wouldn't have worked out. And I mean, I think with both of you, I think I have this question because you both went through something very traumatic. What was trust like for you guys going into the next relationship? Was that the most difficult or was it something else that you found was, I would say like the

predominant, um, a thing that was blocking, blocking you or, or bringing from another relationship? I think this guy, Peter, I trusted implicitly. I'm like, oh my God, this is great. I'll never have to date. I'm going to get married again. It's going to be awesome. I fully trusted what was happening and him to get completely dumped on my face. and I needed that to wake up and be like you're being naive okay you know you're not really seeing what's happening here you're not even going out with him in the next state like he's keeping you in the house hidden away with your car in the back of the house oh my so I trusted though because I was coming from a place where okay you know he's making he's filling all of my not they're

not even basic needs anymore, but whatever I trusted. And I always believed in the best in people. I always, I am, I've always been a little naive in that way. I've never really felt like, how could you, you know, how could you possibly hurt me? Like I'm great, you know? And so I think that trust is something that grew, but those, I trusted this person and that was my wake up call. And then I wasn't really in a relationship with someone else who I trusted to that extent until a year or so later. But it's not, it's trusting yourself. It's listening to your gut because I can trust him.

But if my gut's like back off, then you have to trust what's inside, not what they're telling you. It's, it's the way that it feels when you process it. That's kind of how I look at it. All right. 100% I was gonna say I think for me like I too like TH believe in the best in people I feel like people are good unless they show me that they're not and I definitely walk around with rose-colored glasses and a lot of people that know me like tease me about it like I'm in my own world of

like no everything's gonna be fine why would anyone ever act like that who does that right No, I don't in a weird way. Trust wasn't really a problem for me. I guess I've been fortunate for the most part with the people that I've dated. I haven't been turned on my ass the way that I was when my marriage ended. But I do believe that people are inherently good, even though I know a lot of people aren't. I am an eternal optimist and I believe what people tell me at face value to my own detriment possibly, but that's how I need to live my life. And it's gotten me this far and I'm okay with it. So, and, or maybe I have a good, you know, I don't know, bullshit detector. So maybe part of the reason why I haven't liked certain people or, you know, pursued things with certain people is because there was something a little off or a little shady and and

maybe that was you know my way of telling myself but you know not to trust them but I just don't feel like trust in and of itself oddly given my circumstances was really a problem for me but I will say that I still don't 100% trust my ex I really don't I I trust that at the beginning I didn't trust anything the kids weren't safe with him. You know, nothing good was going to happen, all those things. I believe that the kids are going to be safe with him now, but I still don't trust 99% of what he says. I really look into everything because he's a bullshitter. And so just make sure you don't turn a blind eye and all of a sudden, you know, go back and start trusting things that, that aren't trustworthy.

Right. Well, he proved to you not to be trustworthy. Multiple times. Also, right. So that's also right but don't turn a blind eye like you may have in your marriage like i did now that you're growing make sure you look at what happened i don't let that you know weigh on me but there are red flags all around his face when his name shows up that's for sure yeah well he kind of proved himself already so yeah yeah but you know it's something that th said and jessica you just said it it's about really listening to your intuition right you you said it's a bullshit detector for you but that is really having the ability to know what's best for you and what's not best for you so that's huge because that is such a profound issue in a lot of

relationships especially with infidelity is trust so the fact that you both have been able to navigate other relationships and feel completely open and honest is wonderful that's that's amazing so we still use each other for like check down you know I mean hey you're not like out there free-flowing it's like Jessica what do you think I don't know what do you think about this one he said this he said that we still have our check-ins oh for sure and you should like forever you should use as many tools as possible so I love that so okay another quick little juicy detail and then I'm going to ask one more question because I know that you guys have another show. But so what was it like your first experience being sexual with somebody? How was that? Was it exciting?

Was it nerve wracking? Was it like I haven't shown someone else myself for 18, 13 years? You know, what was your experience like? I thought it was great because mine was, like I said, like this fling with someone that I had worked with years before. And so it was super exciting. It made me realize like, I want more of this. Yeah. But I, but I also, again, I was coming from a different relationship. Like it is true that my husband had an affair, but we, we had not stopped having sex. I mean, we were having sex up until the end when I found out that he'd been cheating on me. So it was rote, but we had not completely lost the intimacy. So it was super exciting for me. My second marriage, through different circumstances, having nothing to do

with infidelity at all, we had stopped having sex for quite some time. So in that relationship, I was like that out of hell when we you know when when we started dating again because I was like I was yearning for that and I knew what I'd been missing and so I couldn't wait to get back out so I would say for me it's always been a positive experience okay awesome what about you I mean it was great it was like fireworks I mean it was like I was starving and and it was still awesome It wasn't like just shreds. It was actually like, again, I met him where I was. So he was also starving for that kind of intimacy and passion and excitement and all of it, which is probably the only thing that we had going on there. But it was great. It was great. And you know what?

A lot of people have very low self-esteem coming out of a marriage or whatever it was, whether it's infidelity or not you're starting again you're going to be judged the only person who's judging you is you the only person who's telling you you look like shit is you inside of your head like I was floored when I was being complimented I was like are you talking to me damn straight you're talking to me and then you know you just feed off of it it's it's very exciting and look if you're in a fling and you know Jessica and I talk about it like are you in your whoring stage or you're not in your whoring stage or like women are whores and men's men are studs when they're all sleeping around and doing whatever it's fun be safe be smart

but it can be it can be fun oh for sure but it's such a profound and and uh um it's it's something that's like so important to a healthy relationship and it's like like you said when you don't have that, you don't realize how hungry you are for it. Right. And yes, we all have had our fun whoring stages. Some have had it in their twenties and thirties and some have had it later in life. And I think it's okay. Like you said, enjoy it. Like figure out what works for you, what you like, what works in every, in every aspect. So that's amazing. I love it. good healthy sex life more important hallelujah for sure okay so one other question what was one of your guys's favorite dates and what was it I would say my favorite date so when I separated

with my second husband it was like peak COVID and so it was COVID dating I live in New York City and you couldn't go anywhere and everything closed at nine o'clock and it was like fall and winter. And so it was a lot of like, you know, meeting someone at their apartment. I didn't have anyone over to my apartment, but my, the best date was a guy that I had come over to my apartment and he had said something like, you know, we should have a real date, like where we dress up and like he would wear a suit and I would get dressed up and he came over in a suit and I was wearing like dress and heels and we had like music playing and we were like slow dancing in my living room and it was super romantic and like I would say probably hands down best date of my life

that's awesome it was just like a fantasy dream kind of a thing like and we we still joke about it I think that was my favorite date too of mine yeah well just in general I love that like I talk about it all the time I'm like oh my god he told her to dress up and he's wearing a suit like it was just I love that this thing yeah and it's funny because I mean like I had bought you know alcohol that he likes or whatever I don't even think we had a drink you know what I mean it was just like totally like into each other and super romantic I love that yeah it was a great date what about you I have a favorite date I mean I just the thing with me now in this relationship is that laying on the couch and watching tv is like a favorite date or being in Vermont and

walking the dogs is another favorite date or we do make date nights which we're pretty strict with we live together but you know like who's taking out the garbage and did you walk the dogs and anybody feed this and what's for dinner doesn't make it very sexy so all of our date nights when we make time for that we like meet at a bar we order our drinks we flirt and so I've had many favorite dates in this relationship not just like there's not just one we have we have our date nights or try to extend it to a weekend if we can but I love that well it's really about the connection, right? It's like finding those moments within your life, you know, because we all have children and crazy lives and it's finding those moments when you can

just really connect with them. So yeah, that's beautiful. Also, I would love to find out where more people can find anybody who's listening, wants to learn more about your expertise and your community and about your podcast. Will you share a little bit about that? Sure. I mean, we're kind of, we like to say we're sort of everywhere someone would need to be or where someone wants to look for us. Our website is xexperts.com. It's all spelled out, E-X-E-X-P-E-R-T-S dot com. And that's our handle on all social media, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok. We now have a YouTube channel where we have new content. Our Divorce Etc. podcast is on every podcast platform. Our newsletter is probably one of our main touch points, and you can find that through any of our social media accounts or through our website.

So, I mean, we have the podcast for everyone who's podcast listeners, but on the website, we also have articles that go along with the podcast. We have the full transcript of every podcast. The website is all divided into sections depending on what kind of resources you're looking for. If you're looking for stuff about, you know, the legal side of it, if you're looking for stuff about the money side of divorce or about custody, you know, or even, you know, moving on with yourself. What happens after divorce section? So we're online everywhere. And you can find us on any of those platforms.

You could always DM us or email us. We answer the messages. We connect with our community and we're growing every day. So welcome in whoever has been divorced or is thinking about divorce or is going through divorce. We, like we say, we've lived it, so we get it. And so we're here to help other people through it. Amazing.

I love it. Thank you guys so much for coming on today's show. I'm sure people have learned quite a bit and I'm excited to, you know, jump on yours and see what we can talk about too. Oh, yeah. We're getting down and dirty. Down and dirty. That's right. I love it. Those were very lightweight questions. Well, you know, they were because, you know, having two is, I really wanted to get your message out there. And I do at some point, Maybe we'll just get in, you know, in some dirty ones and do that later. Happy to come back.

Awesome. I love it. Well, thanks again. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Come and hang out with me on Instagram at Celeste Moore Image. Let me know your thoughts on today's episode because I always love hearing from you all. You can find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website, celestmore.com.

Okay, that's all for now. I'll see you in the next episode. See you next time, friends.