Moore Style - Rewiring Your Brain to Change Your Life with Jason Ward

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Do you desire to step into your fullest potential but feel held back by past traumas? If so, you aren’t alone. Today we are joined by men’s coach Jason Ward for a conversation around the power of seeking support & rewiring your brain. Jason openly shares his vulnerable story and the struggles that he had overcome to become the man he is today. Join us as Celeste and Jason discuss the stigma around men’s mental health and practices they can use to help maintain their emotional health.  Even if you are battling your darkest days, this episode shows us that it is possible to emerge from this darkness and thrive. Jason reminds us that there are many other modalities, aside from therapy, that can help in this process. Please don’t hesitate to reach out for support if needed. In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:30] About Jason Ward [03:57] How Jason’s parent’s divorce impacted him [09:04] The turning point that led Jason to seek therapy [12:49] The different healing modalities that have helped Jason [16:25] The stigma around men seeking support [19:27] Dropping into your heart and being vulnerable [22:26] It is possible to get through dark times [26:51] Daily practices that men can do to maintain their emotional health [30:19] The impact of rewiring your brain  [34:42] Jason’s favorite date [39:10] Therapy can be slow – there may be more effective modalities for you   Connect with Jason: Instagram

Welcome to the down and dirty podcast, the ultimate guide to modern midlife dating. I'm your host Celeste Moore and I'm here to help you navigate the challenges of today's dating world. Think of me as your female version of hitch but better with over 16 years of experience as a certified image consultant and dating coach. I've got the inside scoop on what women want. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the world of healthy masculinity and modern dating. It's a fast changing industry. And here you'll find personal stories, expert insights

and candid conversations that will empower you to take control of your dating life. There's never been a better time to achieve your desired outcome, whether it's marriage, finding a significant other, securing a life partner or simply regaining your dating confidence. We're here with you twice a week to explore the viewpoints and challenges in today's dating arena that resonate with every man seeking dating success and love. So let's dive into today's episode. We've got an exciting discussion lined up for you. Get ready for the double D's of dating where dating dilemmas turn into dating triumph. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Down and Dirty Podcast, where we dive deep into

the stories that shape us and discover how these stories lead us to healing and strength. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and joining us today is an incredibly inspiring individual who has transformed deep personal pain into a powerful force for helping others. His name is Jason Ward, and at the age of six, he was deeply affected by his parents' divorce and father's subsequent abandonment, which left lasting scars of anger, resentment, jealousy, and unworthiness. These experiences had unknowingly cast shadows over his life until his own marriage ended, prompting him to seek healing through intensive therapy, hypnotherapy, understanding his own psychology, and learning about self-awareness. This journey of self-discovery helped him overcome past traumas, transforming

his pain into a source of strength. Now he is committed to guiding others through their struggles, empowering them to heal and thrive before they too hit rock bottom. His mission is to help individuals emerge from their darkest times into their fullest potential. Welcome, Jason. Thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you for having me, Celeste. I'm so honored to be here with you. I'm so excited to, and obviously I'm so excited to know what you do right now, but we all have a story and we all have a past and what helped us get through that journey. And sometimes that's hard to go back and talk about. So I appreciate you being vulnerable and opening up to the audience here so that they can, you know, maybe someone's going through

something that they don't understand about themselves and they can you know relate something back to your story so thank you yeah definitely no it's my pleasure it's my pleasure and I mean the more people that I could help to not have to go through the hard times that I have I think this world would definitely be a better place I agree and I really can't I really how do I say this. I'm really like, happy and proud of the men in this space who have really they're really trying to redefine masculinity and teach the younger generation or even teach the people that are around our age that it's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to seek help. And so we'll definitely jump into that here in a minute. But it's just I want to honor you for that. So that's a big thing.

And I want you to know as a woman, I appreciate that. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. So can you take us back to maybe your earliest memories of feeling the impact of your parents divorce and how those feelings kind of manifested as you grew up? Yeah. Well, you know, as a kid, you just kind of don't even know what's going on.

You just don't get it. You just know that things aren't what they were. you just know that mom and dad aren't together you know that kind of a thing so you're kind of left in the dark which is understandable because you're not going to get it not at six years old not even at 16 years old you know so my parents did what they could they kind of tried to hide things from me but you can only hide so much you know but then what actually happened was mom and dad split dad had some visitation rights and then all of a sudden I'm sitting there waiting for dad to pick me up never showed up and I never heard from him again for I think it was

approximately 12 years something like that wow when I was 19 years old yeah so like 12 13 years and I was 19 and he was going through his second divorce and he figured oh I'm gonna give him a call and he just went ahead and he actually blamed it on the second wife saying that oh it's either me or the kid because he doesn't like me I'm like what I was six seven years old what are you talking about? And it's not my mom. Why would I like all of a sudden just, you know, and this woman was a school teacher. So I knew deep in my heart that what he's telling me is just a line of BS. And later on, I actually contacted her and she was furious to know that he blamed all this stuff on her. And she was always wondering why it is that

I was never around ever again and so on and so on. So it was kind of interesting for me to find out all these things, but yeah, it was that moment just caused so much. It was just an abandonment. It was, I'm not worthy. Of course you don't know these things, but later on in life, I feel, you know like I'm an angry person as I'm growing up I'm just like this I don't know I could never really keep friends very well like I had friends but you know like they would come and go a lot I was just an angry person I would in when I was in a relationship I could easily get jealous I would fall for the person really easily really fast all kinds you know just just stuff that shouldn't be and I never understood I could never figure out why but I never really dug into it

either at that time but it wasn't you know until later on in life and I'm dealing with you know I'm not going to say it was a horrible marriage but we just weren't clicking we weren't in the right place and there were definitely a lot of issues that weren't good on both sides of us and I did get the divorce which is something that I never wanted to do I'm actually having guilt thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm going to turn into my dad, all this stuff. And I go and I do therapy. I'm doing hypnotherapy, which really did a big number on me. That was a huge thing for me to really get dig deep. I was learning psychology, but I learned all these things about, oh, now I get why I would feel this way. And I would do this because of something that happened

30 years ago, 20 years ago, whatever, because it triggered things. And it's all subconscious, you don't even actually know what's going on. You know, and, and once I was able to get these things figured out, and start working through these things, and start putting two and two together and then four and four together and then 18 and 62 together you know all this stuff everything started adding up everything started becoming so much more clear and then I could basically like start over and I've learned so many different techniques and so many different ways to get through stuff with actually rewiring the brain to not have those triggers happen like they used to and to have things be a much more clear way and a much more logical and informed

and better way. Yeah. And it's made a world of difference. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I can just see your story on paper but I can hear it in your voice and see where you're at now and it's truly amazing but could you tell me was there a turning point or was there a point in your life that you're like I have got to seek out some type of therapy some type of and I know you kind of briefed over it a little bit but what was that moment for you was it prior to your marriage or was it your marriage ending? Actually, it was actually after my marriage. Okay. And I was in a relationship with a very physically and emotionally and verbally abusive woman that just was just running my life. And that relationship, even though there were plenty of, when I look back,

there were a lot of red flags and signs and everything that should have been really clear to me, but it was that relationship that made me say, okay, man, what the F are you doing? You really need to figure stuff out. You can't be with anybody else. You need to figure out your brain you need to figure out your emotions you need to figure out everything that's going on inside of you because this is hell and you are putting yourself through hell and honestly I can't blame anybody but me how old were you 41 okay so that was I mean it was when I really got into everything because I kind of did after my marriage you know and stuff like that but no I'm sorry 42 so yeah so this was yeah it was eight years ago so I'm just about 50 nice and uh and

yeah it was I kind of would try to do some stuff and I've done you know therapy here and there And personally, therapy never just seemed to work. It was always like just so slow. It never seemed to get me anywhere. You know, that one hour thing, it just made me feel like this person is just waiting for the hour to be over to get my $150 and move on. And then they're just want to make sure that I'm going to be here next week and so on. I never seemed to get anything out of it. So for me, therapy was like hit or miss. I would try it for a little while, maybe do a month or two. And then I'm like, this is pointless. Maybe try it again because I'm dealing with stuff. But so once I dealt with that whole. Shit show.

Hope I can put that on here. You can be raw on here. Because I'm like, I'm trying to like censor myself a lot. Go be you. All right, good. I'm going to be raw. it was an absolute shit show I ended up in about eighty thousand dollars of credit card debt she ended up getting arrested she was facing federal charges on things that she was doing

yeah she was like it was getting bad and I was paying for like lawyers and stuff her kids got got taken away and given to the dad all kinds of things it was bad it got really bad and how long were you in that situation i'm gonna say it was just over a year okay long enough yeah it was long enough or too long i should say yeah it was just over a year so it was about a year and a week too long yeah yeah so you said that therapy really kind of wasn't the healing modality for you? What were the therapies or practices that you found to be useful? So when I found hypnotherapy, that definitely seemed to help. It dug into my subconscious and into just some of these things to just become more aware to much faster than typical therapy

ever did. And a lot of people think like, oh, they put you to sleep and you're not in control of yourself and all that other stuff. But none of that is true. It's just that if you get a good hypnotherapist and they work with you, you are able to dig into your own mind to bring up things that were buried. You're very aware of everything that's going on. You can stop any minute. You can get up and walk away if you wanted to. You know, nobody's going to make you cluck like a chicken when they snap their fingers. Nothing like that. It's not that at all. So there is a big misconception about that. But anyway, that made a huge difference. That helped me to become more aware. And then as I started working with other doctors, I started working with Dr. Alec Trivedi,

dr rewire and he really helped me to understand a lot that's been going on with me too and how to work through and work out all of these issues and stuff and i've been actually working with him and learning his stuff and i have just as of recently have become one of his i forget the particular word, but I'm able to do his work. The rewire work. Yes. Under his name. Like I can actually say, yes, I am going to do Dr. Rewire work on you. Amazing. I loved him at BYBL. He was phenomenal. Yes. Yes. So I have successfully passed his courses. Yay. I'm able to rewire my own self and I can help rewire others. So that's wonderful. Um, and I've also just recently, there's a technique called neuro-linguistic programming. I don't know if you're aware of

this, but it's basically, it's the language of the brain, neuro-linguistic, the language of the brain. And it's to help with the programming of the things that go on in that. And I have just now recently become a licensed practitioner NLP practitioner that's amazing techniques with people and all my clients so look at you sprouting up and self-growth and doing your thing I love that I'm so excited for you yeah they both go very well together yeah NLP and Dr. Rewire yeah Yeah, they have a similarity, the two of them, but they are also very different. So depending on the client and exactly what's going on and stuff, I can kind of pick and choose and go with what is going to come together better for person and and hopefully get better results all the way around. Yeah. I love that you, like I said, that you're so vulnerable and open about your own experiences and that truly has completely transformed you and directed you into the path that you are today. But there's still such a stigma around men seeking mental help or support. And to me, that is just like it's jaw dropping because I feel that still today.

And how how are you able to, you know, be the example for men trying to seek help? Yes, I absolutely agree. It's definitely an issue. a lot of people, they get raised with this masculinity of your feelings need to get covered up. Your feelings don't matter. You need to bury them. You know, whatever it is that happened, you need to just push it aside and just move on anyway. You know, and the truth is when you do that that is the thing that messes with your psychology it's even though it's buried you may not ever think about it again but what it's what's happening is your brain it'll see an event

and it'll see where this event is going and it'll remember things that happened in the past and it'll trigger these thoughts of oh this happened before so we know what's going to happen when as this is going so we have to go and do this and we have to go and do that and stuff like that so you don't know it but your brain is already saying oh we got to protect you and go and do this thing or run this way or get mad and fight and whatever and it's just not a good thing so by taking all of those emotions that were going on and you work through them and you get a better clarity about that and then that will now make you to be a better man and to be a much more clear-headed and calm and logical person to deal with all the issues that come along in your life

Yeah. And unfortunately, because men have been, you know, sent a message from society to, you know, be like a man, like, don't don't cry, don't do all this. And the rise of suicide levels are extremely up there. And the domestic abuse has risen. And it's all because men have not been able to find a space to allow them to deal and heal with pain and tragedy and, you know, trust issues and abandonment issues and everything else that they have to deal with, just like women. but they have been told for so long to like you said shove it down put it away lock it up in a box well let me tell you that box is not locked it's just bubbling and bubbling and bubbling until something happens and explodes yeah exactly you end up hanging on to resentment that you don't even realize you have fear that a lot of people especially men they're not going to admit that they have fear so they're gonna put on this fake mask where they're brave and you know the truth is is that's what gives them the anger that they have they try to blame other people for things

the abuse the you know for absolutely no good reason and when it comes to relationships too because of the fact that they've been taught to hold back all of their feelings they're never vulnerable to their spouse or their partner. You know, they're never being open. They're never talking to and being like that true authentic self of them. They have to come across with this, oh, I'm going to be this, this, this, and now you have to this, this, this, and if this doesn't all happen, then things are bad and so on, whatever.

It's not that way at all. The truth is you need to be vulnerable. You need to open up. And you need to have that person that you can trust to be open to that person needs to trust you. And if you're always putting on this facade, then they're never going to trust you. They always have to be feel guarded.

You know, you have to have that openness back and forth and in order to feel comfortable with being open, you need to get through all the past crap that you've gone through, you know, so it's, there's kind of a catch 22 all the way around, but You did make a really, yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, no, it's totally fine. You made a great point because I was going to bring this up. A man needs to feel safe and trusted and in a space with someone, just let's use a partner, for example, just like a woman needs to feel safe and protected and vulnerable in a little bit different ways. But you're right, it has to be on both sides.

and you know a lot of times men hear vulnerability as a word and they're i don't think i have to cry there's there's this education around it that's not true that means they have to cry or they have to be feminine or they have to you know show signs of not who they are but it's really about listening and dropping into your heart and talking about the feeling communicating the feeling to your partner your other person in your life that's what it means to be vulnerable in that moment and trust the person that they're going to hear you for what you're saying and still love and support you and not abandon you or judge you or yeah yeah it can be difficult to get through to me It definitely can. But once you get a man to understand and once you get a man to get through it, they understand and realize that, oh, being vulnerable doesn't make you less of a man. It actually makes you more of a man because you're able to take care of and deal with so much more.

you know with the suicides people are doing it because they can't handle it they can't deal with they can't whatever in their lives and by learning how to take care of all your emotions to learn how to work through them all to learn how to deal with them properly it definitely makes it so you can get through everything you can take things yeah anxiety depression you name it it's all workable it's all doable and you don't drugs to do it you know so it's such a strong message because it's so sad to know that they these men that are in this space thinking just to end their lives is the only option yeah because they can't or they haven't been exposed to people that could help them and feel trusted. It's such a sad place. And thank you for all the men in this

world that are doing what you're doing. And thank you for you for being able to share your experiences and know that there is a different outcome. You know, that's huge. And I think people need to really hear that, that there are people that want to truly from their heart and their own experiences help and you're one of them and I would love for you if you have a certain memorable like success story that how you've helped someone get through their dark times if you don't mind sharing you don't have to say names or anything like you know that but is there something you could share with the audience here well actually there is a guy that comes to mind he's a military veteran he did two tours in Iraq. So he has PTSD from that. He came home to dealing with a lot in his marriage.

He got very heavy into drinking. He ended up going through a divorce and basically getting raked over the coals. He ended up losing his license for getting a couple DUIs. He was in a really, really, really bad place. He pretty much had nowhere to live. His car was locked up. He couldn't do much of anything. I helped him to get sober. It wasn't me that got him sober. He has to do all the work. He really got serious with AA and I helped him with all of that stuff. I helped him with relationships. I helped him with a lot of the PTSD that he had going on. He now has his license back he's very happy about that he's been clean and sober now for I think it's a year and a half if I have it right could be close to two years but he's definitely made a huge change in his life

he even has his own place he's got his own apartment that he's living in now on his own but he's definitely working to put his life back together and he's now helping other veterans that have been dealing with a lot of ptsd and alcoholism and helping those as he's going through his journey so that's awesome that's probably one of my proudest clients that i have that i'm proud of just because of where he's come from and now what he's doing for others so that's amazing it's really like you can see the the full circle when that happens yeah yeah so I'm so happy for him and I love it and I stay in touch with him regularly and we talk quite a bit yeah so that's awesome that he had you because like you said that was a dark place and I know that a lot of veterans

struggle coming and assimilating back after a war I personally uh have never been to war but my family was in the service so yeah it can be very intense so I'm grateful that he had you so can you share some maybe daily practices for maybe mindset or things that men can do to maintain their emotional health or things that you would recommend something that maybe they could practice doing so that they can work through some of these things yeah absolutely meditation is a big thing and there's even a lot of misconceptions about meditation a lot of people think that things get really woo-woo and you got people playing the diggity-doo whatever stuff going on and it's not about that it's just being able to just be silent in your own cell

and to just clear your mind and to just and it's really more about mind control and it's learning how to control your mind and it's learning knowing that your mind can get crazy and being aware of it and how to catch it before it gets too far and bring it back you know um and that can that can be a huge thing just doing simple practices like that you can do even like a five minute a day thing you can do guided meditations you can find them on youtube all over the place get an app for it whatever also journaling can be a huge deal just to get those thoughts that you have and to just write them all out you can actually see them a little more clearly you can actually realize a lot of different things even if people don't have the time like that those are both good things to

do in the morning you can also do them at night and you can literally take five minutes like just before you're about to fall asleep jot down a few things do a real quick meditation just to help calm yourself down you know yeah put away home put away everything just you can even have Alexa do like play a meditation or something whatever but those simple things just on a daily basis can be very calming and clearing yeah those are great tools actionable steps i would say one thing that i've learned over the years is to at least write down three wins that you had for the day if you're going to do it at night yes yes in fact that's one of the things that popped into my head like you could have a horrible day and you could see absolutely no good that came

out of it but if you can just come up with three things like oh that's right i was able to do i got dressed that that was a plus i took the dogs for a walk and fed them that was good they're still alive so yeah you know simple things like that just something simple yeah right and it's just retraining the brain to you know have gratitude practices and have let's think about the wins not the you know especially when people are in such a mess like your friend or your client that went through all of these things yeah when you look at all of that that's a shit storm yeah but if he broke down let's just say even a couple hours like what happened in those three hours that were good or I achieved. And that's a really great way to put it. It can be simple

like getting dressed or taking the dogs out. And honestly, that is one of the great things about the process that I learned with Dr. Rewire is it's you could have one of the most horrific things going on. And so one of the practices you do is to take I'm just going to use me as a quick example my dad never showing up again right my dad abandoning him now i need to make a list of 50 or 100 benefits of that you know and it's one of the things when you learn this whole thing is you realize that everything that happens in life there's actually no good or bad it only reason it is either good or bad is because of the emotion that we put to it you know so when my dad left and my dad decided he didn't want to what the whole thing was is he didn't

want to be a dad anymore right to him that was a good thing he didn't have to worry about me anymore he didn't have to deal with me he didn't have to have that extra responsibility to him it was good to me it's bad so that situation it depends on the person to the average person it didn't affect them at all but then for me to look at many reasons why it was a good thing so number one I didn't have that asshole in my life mentoring me and getting his mindset and his ways I mean he's been divorced four times and he's single now you know yeah he didn't deal with his issues right exactly you know like there's i could come up with so many different things because it it brought me into the direction where i am right now to have all the stuff that i've learned to

be able to help the people in the way that i am i wouldn't be doing that if he was part of my life You know, so I have a list of all the benefits. And so it can also go the other way. If you won the lottery, okay, give me a list of 50 reasons why winning the lottery is bad. You know, what are the drawbacks to winning the lottery? Oh, well, now every person in your family is coming and being your best friend all of a sudden. You're going to end up spending a lot of money on stupid things that, you know, you'll never use. People can go party like crazy, get addicted to drugs, kill them, die, whatever.

I mean, the list can go on and on. But it's this whole thing of, okay, there's good, there's bad, but that all is happening because I am making it that way. So when you have a shit day, if you go and rewire your brain, you can find, okay, that horrible thing that happened, there's good that came out of it. that car accident that happened well the car insurance is buying me a new car and I could have used a new car anyway because it needed to get some service work and whatever done anyhow and you know what I'm gonna get that other car that I've been wanting so yeah that'll be a good thing you know like all these different things it's rewiring the brain yeah and it's really an amazing thing that I've learned and it can it's really changed my life it really truly has yeah

I'm so happy for you I really am and like you said you can probably say probably close to 200 things what went great in your life from your childhood and the longer you live the more things you see and the more you realize oh yeah all right i'm liking this yeah so you know it and it does it is realizing that everything that goes on in the universe is perfect i like that i know there's a lot of people who could come up with a lot of different things to throw at me but in all honesty everything that happens is perfect i like that thank you for the sharing that so last question before we close out and before i give you a space to talk about uh if there's anything i missed what was one of your favorite dates and what was it

one of my favorite dates was January 12 2019 that is our first date my me and my fiancee and it has been the most amazing relationship I have ever been in and I can honestly tell you that I've never, I never honestly felt worthy enough to have a relationship of what I'm in with her right now. Wow. Yeah. And why is that? The way that we get along, the way that we're able to connect, the way that we have been able to take all of the issues that we've had in the past all the traumas all the bullshit to make ourselves better people and to become more understanding of each other and to be more communicative with each other to be more open to be just more loving and receptive understanding

and we still have our issues we'll still argue but we're so much easier than any other time of ever we've been able to come back and to work and to talk and to work things out and to be wonderful and loving and end up actually being stronger yeah that's beautiful i know you both and you guys are just beautiful souls and i can tell you've met your person and just for those listening out there, it is very possible to meet your person when you are truly who you are, like when you are truly authentic and in knowing that you will attract your person. And I just think that's a beautiful, beautiful story.

And I'm so happy you guys found each other. Well, and I will tell you guys, cause nobody believes that it's ever possible, but we met on Tinder. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, it's not just a hookup site, guys. Okay, but you can find lasting love. Absolutely. I love that story. So is there anything that I did not ask you that you want

to share with the audience? Or is there anything coming up for you that you would like to share? There's nothing really specific that's coming up. I am just doing everything I can to better myself in every possible way so I can be better for others so by the time somebody hears this I'm sure more things have come along so all I can say is if there's anything that anybody hears or sees or whatever and is interested in by all means get a hold of me how can people get a hold of you okay so hopefully by the time somebody hears this my website will be up and running I don't know when it'll be. The guy has been, he's actually been in the hospital, so I'm not putting a rush on it. I just hope the guy's okay. It'll be up whenever it's up, but it's jdubcoaching.com. But I'm also on Instagram at jdubcoaching. I can be emailed jdubcoaching at gmail.com. but yes find me get a hold of me talk to me dm me jason ward is on uh facebook yeah and you and i

are both speaking on our first stage is it your first stage it is it's my first stage too and september 20 september 26 guys in las vegas if you're interested i'm gonna put this in the show notes too you can check it out come buy a ticket and see this there's i don't know maybe eight powerhouse speakers and we are two of them and you don't want to miss this because we were going to bring so much value to this uh group i'm so excited i'm very excited to be on that stage and hopefully many others soon yeah exactly we got to spread the message right yes absolutely i want to get the message out there and to just let people know that, Hey, help is available. Hey, people that understand and Hey, there are ways to get things done and to do it in

a timely manner. You know, like I just have to say again, like for me, and I know a lot of people feel this way, therapy can be slow and I'm not going to be against therapy necessarily because it has its place but there are just so many more better and more effective things unfortunately health insurance doesn't want to pay for that but whatever we're not even going to go there that's a whole nother hour or two oh gosh but whatever about that whole thing but yes therapy it has its own place and it can be good in some cases but I'm just telling you guys there are so many more options and there is just so many more ways and please contact me

let me know what i can do to help i will if i can't i can probably get you to somebody who can so yeah yeah thank you well this has truly been a profound and enlightening conversation and i hope this this discussion today has resonated with you guys out there and thank you Jason for sharing your story and being vulnerable and showing what that looks like to other men listening today. But until next time, keep striving, keep healing and keep growing and take care, everyone. Thank you. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to support podcasts like ours, then please hit that subscribe button, leave a five star rating and or invite others to listen. Your support is

what helps us grow and continue to bring you valuable content. Thanks for hanging out with us on today's episode. Let's stay connected. You can find me on Instagram at Celeste Moore image, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on today's discussion. For all the links, resources and additional information mentioned in this episode, check out the show notes on my website, Celeste Moore.com. That's all for now. But stay tuned for our next episode where we'll dive into more exciting topics. Until then, see you next time, friends.