Moore Style - Unpacking Women’s Sexuality with Dr. Laurie Mintz

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Women’s sexuality is unfortunately still an understudied topic, but our guest today, Dr. Laurie Mintz, has 30 years of experience in this field and is here to share her knowledge. As an author of two books, a speaker, and a professor of human sexuality, Laurie knows a thing or two about female sexual desire and pleasure! In this insightful conversation, we dive deep into a wide range of topics such as: the misinformation around female sexuality, why mindfulness is important in sex, the impact that stress has on our sex drive, the importance of language in sexual education, and how communication is key in experiencing a satisfying sex life.   Although this episode is centered around female sexuality, men will also gain practical insights from this conversation! In this week’s episode, we discuss: [01:37] About Dr. Laurie Mintz [04:38] Why women’s sexuality is not widely talked about or accepted  [05:34] The misinformation around sexual education  [09:33] The importance of communication in a sexual relationship [11:02] It is not pushy to speak up for your needs and desires [11:45] Women are not often present during sex [14:06] Changing sexual needs, interests, and desires [17:42] When should you bring up sexual preferences with a new partner? [20:01] The importance of language in sexual education [23:50] The clitoris nerve endings [26:11] Self-pleasure and exploring your body [28:11] The common denominator for lower sex drive & sexual stages in relationships [30:07] Two types of sexual desire [32:40] The importance of mindfulness [34:22] Penis size anxiety [35:52] All experienced orgasms are equally great [37:42] Sexual education and empowerment for teenagers [46:57] Laurie’s favorite date   Connect with Laurie: Website  “Becoming Cliterate” Book Instagram Facebook

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena. So let's get into today's episode.

I want to welcome everybody to another episode of the Down and Dirty podcast. And as always, I'm your host Celeste Moore. And I want to say a big thank you to everyone here who continues to listen and tune in to these episodes. I truly hope that you're able to bring something here that you've learned back into your relationships. And please don't forget to leave a glowing review and give the show five stars. It always helps the show to get recognized and in turn helps other people. But before we jump into today's episode, I want to introduce my guest today. I'm so honored to have Dr. Lori Mintz. She's an author, a professor, a therapist, and speaker committed to helping people live more authentic, meaningful, joyful, and sexually satisfying lives.

As an emeritus professor at the University of Florida, she teaches the psychology of human sexuality to hundreds of undergraduates each year. She has published over 50 research articles and six chapters in academic books. She was also chosen as 2023 Forbes 50 over 50 women influencers. She is the author of two popular press books, both with published studies demonstrating their Effectiveness, Becoming Clitorate, Why Orgasm, Equality Matters, and How to Get It, and A Tired Women's Guide to Passionate Sex to Reclaim Your Desire and Reignite Your Relationship. With this same goal of providing scientifically accurate sex-positive information to enhance female pleasure, Dr. Mintz writes a popular Psychology Today blog and maintains an active

social media presence. She gives presentations and workshops to professionals and lay audiences, including a recent TEDx talk. So for over 30 years, Dr. Mintz has also maintained a private practice working with both individuals and couples on general and sexual issues. So welcome to today's show, Dr. Mintz, and thank you for coming on today's show. Thank you for having me. It's an honor. I appreciate it. Oh, yeah. I absolutely love how much research you put into this work you've done. But as you began your career, did you ever think that you would help people have more satisfying sex lives? No, I didn't. It wasn't even on my radar. I knew I wanted to be a therapist.

Okay. And for many, many years, I worked with eating disorders. That was my specialty. And then to be really honest, like when I was myself after I had my second child in my 30s, I was like, wait, where did my sex drive go? It's gone. And I started talking to my friends and they were like, yeah, mine too, mine too. And as a psychologist and a researcher, I had access to the scientific literature, did a dive and found out, wow, there's a lot out there in the scientific literature.

Why aren't women getting this information? And I was really motivated to translate that information after finding out it worked for me and my friends and my clients into a popular press book. And then everything changed from there. And now I pretty much live, breathe, eat, you know, sex positive education and sex therapy. And it's become my life work because I've increasingly realized, sadly, how taboo a topic it is and how little accurate information people get. Yeah, I would agree that it's so there's still a taboo around it. And I don't know why that is. I mean, can you tell me from your experience or from your research why it's still not widely talked about or accepted?

I think it's like our roots, you know, in the U.S. anyway, I think, or worldwide, a lot of it is like old, you know, moralistic, religious messages. And I think in terms of women's sexuality, I think there's still a lot of sexism and patriarchy. Like as just an example, someone just did a study where they looked at keywords in PubMed and there were 500 times more keywords on the penis than there were on the clitoris. Like we're still at our infancy in looking at women's most erotic organs and sexual pleasure. Terrible. It's so terrible.

And you said there's a misinformation around that. What kind of misinformation are you finding? Well, I think that media and porn images are just, they're entertainment, not education. But sadly, you know, kids are using them for education in the absence of good sex ed and they show you know erections that last all night they show lots of hard thrusting they show rough sex without consent if a woman's shown orgasming she's shown doing through so through penetration alone which only four to eighteen percent of women do so

i mean we're just but there's so many false images all around us and once you start seeing them like you can't unsee them they're there yeah yeah you said something so important because a lot of young men right their only education is pornography and so that is a huge misrepresentation of really what's women's pleasure and yeah and like you said a guy is not keeping his penis hard for an hour right unless he's on sometimes viagra or something which the porn stars take Oh, really? Oh, sure. Yes. Yes. So it's just chock full of misinformation and people are using it as a guide. And that's really sad. Yeah. So in turn, here you are, hopefully educating these, like you said, you're at University of Florida, and I'm sure people take your class and they're like, what? yeah yeah i mean i tell my class in the beginning that it's as much about unlearning as it is learning and they unlearn a lot of what they thought was reality right yeah because who who

else is teaching them on i had this conversation i can't remember i was on a podcast a little bit ago. And, you know, when do you start educating young people on really what, you know, nobody educates us on sex in the field of sex and, you know, oh, just don't get pregnant. Don't contact STDs. Here's where a condom. I mean, that's pretty much it. Yes. Yes. And sometimes it's like, you know, the messages are even worse than that, right? Like, don't have sex or you will get pregnant and get an STI and die. Like, they're scary. And no sex ed is mentioning pleasure or the clitoris. You know, in fact, you know, they still separate the boys and the girls a lot of times. And the boys are taught about ejaculations and the girls are taught about periods like those

are not the same thing yeah so you know we really really are lacking very much so yeah wow well I am happy that you are at least in that field and hopefully at that ripe young age of 18 to 22 or whatever that is that's making a huge impact and in these students and just sexuality and pleasure right like because women have even I think still to this day it's almost like oh you shouldn't enjoy you shouldn't have an orgasm you shouldn't enjoy make sure to get the man off right that's kind of still the underlying messages out there yes as Peggy Ornstein says we still have this if it's good for him it's good for me mentality oh that's a good one yeah yeah no it's okay for women to have pleasure, not just, you know, have sex to have a child. It's so,

I mean, I don't know. I just don't understand that whole concept. But what do you think is missing in relationships that is, I want to say, is there like a common denominator where you think that's missing in a healthy sexual relationship? I think communication is a big one. Like we know from the research that couples who talk about sex have better sex and they talk about it outside of the bedroom. They talk about it during sex. They talk about it after. And a lot of couples don't communicate at all. And then problems, you know, get bigger and bigger and bigger. The classic example is a woman who thinks she should orgasm during intercourse, again, only four to 18% do. And so

she feels abnormal or she wants to please her partner. So she fakes. I've talked to a new fake for years. And I talked to one woman once who faked 30 years. And by doing that, you're teaching your partner to do exactly what doesn't work for you. That's just one of many examples. It starts with communication about what you want, what your needs are, how you want to experience pleasure, how you want to, you know, conduct your sex life. Yeah, I think being more vocal, I think as women, just from some of my experiences, just keeping a smaller voice, you know, yeah, I think that that's like you said, just learning to be okay and comfortable of what it is pleases you and communicating that with your partner. I think there are some misconception, too, around if I

voice what I want, then he'll think I'm weird or he'll leave me or there's, I'm sure, a million stories that are going on in a woman's head. And it's easier just to like, OK, let's just get this over with. Right. Right. Yeah. There is a study that found that women think it's pushy to ask or young women anyway, in this study think it's pushy to ask for the clitoral stimulation they need. And it's like, no, it's not pushy to say what you need to say what your desires are. That's how you get them met. You can't get them met without speaking them. But yeah, there's a million stories. And then on top of that, it makes me think a lot of times women are also not even present during their sex. They're up in their head. Do I look okay? Do I smell okay? You know,

is he having fun? And you can't have an orgasm when you're sinking like that or holding your stomach in or focused on your body. Having an orgasm requires a complete immersion in the moment in your body sensations. Yeah. You said a lot of things that women probably like, oh my gosh, my thighs look? And you're right, the smell, do I taste okay? All of these things that possibly come up. And I'll tell you something interesting, and I'm sure you've heard this, but while I was pregnant with my daughter, I would have orgasms when I was sleeping. It was the only reprieve, I think, for my five months of nauseousness. But I would call my mom, she's a doctor, and I'd be like, mom, I think I just had an orgasm in my sleep. She goes, well, you probably did. And I

said, it's just the most bizarre thing, but I must've been in a state of complete, I mean, obviously I've got a bunch of hormones going through my body, but there's also the state of relaxation. I'm sleeping. Yeah. Yeah. That's been reported before, you know, it's so interesting, isn't it? What our bodies have the capacity to do. I mean, most of us need some type of genital touch to orgasm, but people orgasm like you in their sleep or while they're exercising or while they're fantasizing. Yeah. Our bodies are really quite remarkable in that way. Yeah, they are. Cause I was like, uh, this is amazing. Can I have this all the time? Yeah, but it is okay. You know, and I think the communication is so paramount in new relationships

and older relationships or longer relationships, I should say, because, I mean, I know you see clients as well, and I'm sure it's common for them to say, well, sex is boring or sex is the same, or how do I spice up my sex life? You know, that's got to be a common factor for a lot of individuals. I assume, you know, the most common complaint that women over 35 have is their desire has diminished. They're not horny anymore. And now some of that is biological. Some of it is stress. Some of it is just natural, you know, as a relationship goes on. But some of it is just what you just talked about. Like some people aren't tired, too tired for sex. They're tired of the sex they're having. We know that couples develop like a sexual routine. You know, I'll do this to

you. You do this to me. And even if both parties orgasm, it can still be a little mundane and boring. And it's important to spice it up, bring in sex toys, different lubricants, you know, kink, whatever. Talk about it and try new things. Yeah. So I have a client who is so I see mostly single guys, I coach them in the dating world and image part. But I do have some clients that are married and they're like, okay, they come to me and like, how do we make my husband sexy again, and then teach him how to date me? And then can you talk about the sex thing? Because I'm bored. So have you had this happen? I'm sure that someone's come to you and said, you know what, what I want now sexually and voicing and communicating is not what I wanted when we were married or in the beginning

of the relationship and the other person is totally against whatever whatever is going on like you know how is that something say that they don't want to to divorce or separate you know that's a that's got to be a huge component to happiness yes absolutely like we know couples who are more sexually satisfied or happier like there's such a high correlation and people's needs change over time. Just like, I don't know, you know, your amount of sleep you need, whether you like pizza or not, or if it agrees with your aging stomach, all of that. We change over time, requiring ongoing communication. Yeah, I completely agree. And I just hope that like it's so not off key or off kilter that it's like the end all be all of the relationship, because I know that can happen.

but I feel it well were you really honest in the beginning right part of me thinks like everything changes like you said if I like pizza anymore or if I'm getting bored of this but just for example like say someone wants to be polyamorous and now you know that's not okay with their partner so I don't think that yeah no those are like their things can change I think what I'm hearing you say. And I agree. There can be little changes like I want to do a little more this or a little more that. But there can be big changes to overtime, like someone who desires polyamory or to open up the relationship and their partner doesn't. And sometimes those things do become deal breakers and end a relationship because sexual incompatibility is is indeed something that

can end a relationship. But, you know, I've seen people work things out. They never thought they would. I'm sure you have, too. I've seen people end relationships and end up both happier with more compatible partners. Yeah. So I have a question for you. What do you think it's OK to talk about maybe sexual style or preferences when you're newly dating somebody? Before you have. But yes, thank you. Because if you're really incompatible, why waste your time? Yeah. Well, I mean, maybe, you know, it's different for everybody. But the earlier you can have conversations that are honest about sexuality, you're setting the tone for the whole relationship. And why waste your time if you're someone, for example, who really likes kink and

you tell your partner that they're like on a second date and they're like, oh, you know, don't go on a third date. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. I agree. But it's good to know from an expert, you know, kind of what you think and what it's best to everybody listening. Did you hear that? Have these conversations earlier than later. I do feel like there's this missing component on the dating apps and even matchmakers. Right. I wish there was like, OK, the sexual component okay all it has I'm gay I'm bi I'm straight that's about it but it has nothing and I know there is you know it shouldn't be too much in detail but there should be some type of test or some type of a little bit of a spectrum maybe if you will like oh I'm really into this or I'm

into that where it's not off-putting and it's not too much but it's a compatibility aspect like a woman. Like I like oral sex. Like let's hook her up. Let's the dating app hook her up with a man who likes giving oral sex and finds it immersive. Like, yes, I think there can be obviously there's no accounting for chemistry. Right. We yeah, we understood that. Wow. And could bottle that. There's so much to that. Right. But besides the chemistry, I think that's a brilliant idea. You should sell it to the dating apps you know some kind of sexual compatibility thing because I think it is a big component obviously of relationships yeah there is a woman a doctor that I had on and she created something like that and she really wants to sell it and I was like oh my god it's

the missing component of successful dating so I really hope she sells that but I just I brought it up again. And I was like, you know what? It makes so much sense. Oh, I wanted to ask you, but when you talk about in your book, what do you mean when you say let's get clitorate? So clitorate is a play on words, right? Litterate and the clitoris. And by clitorate, I mean, I mean, yeah, the most basic is let's talk about women's most reliable route to orgasm, which is clitoral stimulation, either alone or with penetration. But it's also more encompassing than that. It's just a valuing on female sexuality, a communicating about it, a considering it equally as important as male sexual pleasure. It goes from our attitude to the language we use,

like, let's stop using the word sex and intercourse as if they're one and the same. Let's stop using the word foreplay for everything that comes before, because by doing that, we're relegating women's most reliable route to orgasm to just to lead up to the main event. And language is important. It reflects and perpetuates things. You know, if we really overvalued female sexual pleasure the way we overvalue male sexual pleasure, we would call foreplay sex an intercourse postplay. And I'm not suggesting we do that. I'm not trying to flip the tables, but I am suggesting we consider, we think about how we talk about sex and we no more. It's better.

It's revolving around his pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I really do like that because growing up, me personally, you know, sex was intercourse. And sex is so much more than that. And it isn't just intercourse. It is every act of sexual intimacy. So what are some of the other vocabulary that you would talk about? Because I do use this and please tell me I would love to move forward. And, you know, I talk about how important foreplay is for females, for women, because what gets men off or what creates a sexual drive for men is like not always what it is for a woman. So what are some of the words

that you would use? Yeah, I would eliminate the word foreplay from your book, Larry, honestly. And I'd eliminate the word sex when you're using it as synonymous with intercourse, because you're still implying everything revolves around this act. Instead, I would just use basic word intercourse when you mean it, oral sex, manual stimulation, vibrator stimulation. And so it's less of this staircase model. First we do foreplay, then intercourse, male ejaculation, sex over. And it's a more fluid, we both pleasure each other, we share pleasure kind of word. And while we're on the subject of language, if I might suggest that you, if you don't already, and everyone else, we no longer use the word vagina to refer to an entirety of women's genitals.

The vagina is the place where penises and dildos can go in and babies can come out. The outside is called the vulva, and by not naming that, we are linguistically erasing the part of ourselves that gives us the most pleasure. We're calling our entire genitals by the part that's most sexually useful to men rather than ourselves. I love that. Thank you for clarifying for people that don't already say that. Because yeah, it's, wow. It's just, it keeps going and going until we actually change it, right?

So, yes. And I know that the vulva, that the clitoris is, okay, you're going to have to tell me now because I heard this before, but it's way more nerve endings than a penis. Is that correct? So it's a lot. I don't know if it's more, but I know it is the part of the human body, male or female, with the most touch-sensitive nerve endings in a small part. So it's over 10,000 touch-sensitive nerve endings on the glands of the clitoris. So a lot of times there's like a saying to, for a man to understand, imagine all the nerves on the head of your penis packed into

something the size of a pencil eraser. And that's why many women actually find direct clitoral stimulation, not arousing, but painful. And they like to stimulate around it or like through their panties or because it's, that's a lot of touch sensitive nerve ends. Yes, it is. I was going to talk about that too a little bit why it's so important to understand your partner because some women knowingly know how sensitive they can be so what's pleasurable like you said and what's painful obviously so yeah that's really interesting how you're like over the panties and like different ways where it's not a direct no it could be there's many in the clitoris is also a vast internal organ too. The glands in the hood are just what you see on the outside. So there's

so many different ways to touch a woman. But we know, here's a stat that really drives this all home. When women pleasure themselves, less than 2%, less than 2% do so exclusively by putting something in their vagina. And when women pleasure themselves, 95% reach orgasm easily and within minutes. So it's like a disconnect between the way we pleasure ourselves and the way we have sexual encounters with men. Yeah. Wow. I didn't even, that's, that's incredible. That's really crazy. Yeah. And I love that. I think it's so important and I don't know how much you, you educate or talk about this, and it probably is in your book that I have not read, talking about pleasuring yourself, really understanding what it is that you like,

because I'm going to be honest, there is one person in my life that very close friend of mine, we ended up just talking about masturbation. And she said she's never masturbated. And I don't know how common that is. But I was like, flabbergasted. I said, I don't know if it's like, you know, something and I didn't really go into details. I was just like, what? Never? Nope, never. So I don't know if it was based around a religious thing, or if it was bad or taboo in her mind. But it just I don't know how someone can't touch themselves and pleasure themselves. Yeah. So yes, I do have an entire chapter on masturbation in my book, Becoming Okay. So the book, you know, kind of exposes the orgasm gap and the problems, the cultural problems responsible. And then it has, you know, genital anatomy, then it has several self-help chapters. And in fact, I'm really proud to say that research shows that women who read it become more orgasmic, more aroused, less sexual pain, more assertive, more empowered.

But the reason I have an entire chapter on masturbation is it is the most scientifically or empirically supported technique for helping a woman reach orgasm. The first step that sex therapists will do is, you know, besides a medical workout to roll out any medication or medical issues is, you know, send the woman home with instructions to pleasure herself and find out what kind of touch she likes. So, yeah, absolutely. Self-pleasure is really important, really important to knowing yourself and telling a partner, teaching a partner. And how can you teach a partner what to do if you don't know by yourself? Right. Well, I don't want to spoil everything that's in your book. But when you said you were, you know, having these issues of like your sex drive going,

you know, getting lower as you said, you're 30. Yeah, that's 30s. My 30s. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's the topic of my first book. A Tired Woman's Guide to Passionate Sex. my second book is on orgasm issues. Yeah. And I guess my question was, and you said some of your friends were having, you know, the same issue and that's when you wrote the first book, but

was there a common denominator? Yes. Stress. Well, two common denominators. One is chronic stress. We know that women, especially women married to men are chronically stressed because they're doing more than their share of the household and child rearing, a lot of working outside the home at the same time. So chronic stress and chronic stress diminishes sex drive for biological and psychological reasons. And another common denominator is women not knowing that that is normative, that our relationships go through stages. And there's a stage called the limerence stage. It's early sexuality, right? We can't keep our hands off each other. And it's a very lovely stage, but it only lasts six months to two years. And most women stop feeling that drive,

but they don't know that's normal. They think something's wrong with me. And then sometimes they make the mistake of waiting to be horny to have sex and then never having sex. Or more commonly, they'll do it and then go, oh, that was good. We should do that more often. But then it falls to the wayside. And I think if more people know what I'm about to talk about, more people would not be having this issue. There's two types of sexual desire. Spontaneous, right? I'm horny, which is in the early stages. And I know you know this, but so for the audience, right? responsive desire or receptive desire. I like the idea of sex. I know I'm going to enjoy it once it gets going. I know I'm going to sleep better. I know we're going to feel closer.

And it's good when it gets going. And that's not duty sex. That's using your responsive desire. You don't have to do this. Desire leads to sex, to arousal. You can have sex itself lead to the desire. You can reverse the equation. And I think that's a very important fact that a lot of women don't know about. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. So you can use sex or the all the sexual intimacy to get there. OK, that's amazing. Yeah. I did not know that. So I. Yeah. You want something This is my grad school. I learned so much by all of these experts, you experts that come on my show. And I'm so fascinated. And I think, you know, you said stress was, you know, number one, that kills sex drive. And I know this is also true for men. I don't know the difference and all this, but I know when a man is severely stressed, he can't always get an erection. Right, right. Yes, that's true. That's often performance anxiety about stress that we're talking about there. Like, and men really suffer a lot from that because of this false belief that their penis is so important, so essential. And, you know, it's not. A woman can have an orgasm, even if the guy doesn't have an erect penis, right? If he's got his tongue, a vibrator, his hand. but poor men have been you know so they put so much pressure on themselves but the stress i was

talking about in terms of women's desire is chronic stress chronic stress okay yeah which you know women the research is super clear women have way more chronic stress than men do and i'm not trying to dismiss the stress men feel at all i'm just sharing the research on women's Right. It makes sense because, yeah, we do it all. We do 50 tasks at once. And sure, let's just get naked and have sex. I need to know it takes a lot for me to get out of my head. So yes, that's that getting out of your head is super important to the idea of mindfulness, like immersing completely in the moment. Right. That's mindfulness. And you can't have an orgasm or enjoy sex unless you're present mindfully. So a lot of times I recommend for clients to really learn and practice mindfulness in their daily life and then apply it to sexuality. Right. That makes a lot of sense. And find kind of what works for them within the mindfulness category, right? I mean, taking, I don't know, taking a bath or exercising or whatever that looks like for them to be able to focus into that. I don't hate to call it a task, this enjoyment of

sex with a partner. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to meditate to learn mindfulness. Like you're saying, you're going to be mindful in present-day activities. And I always tell people, practice it when you're brushing your teeth. Most of us do that really mindlessly. But instead, the next time you brush your teeth, really focus on the sensations in your mouth. Really focus on the taste of the toothpaste. And when your mind wanders, and it will, because that's what our minds do, go, there she goes again, and bring your mind back to the sensations. Put your mind and your body in the same place. So many times we're doing one thing and our mind is another. We might be receiving oral sex. Well, we're not feeling it because we're thinking about, do we smell okay?

So that's mindfulness is one of sex's best friends. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Just to go back just for a second. What do you think for all the men listening here is the reason behind penis size anxiety. I think it's just as old. I don't know what the reason is, but I think a lot of it, again, is old as time. Some of it is porn. You know, some of it is, and we perpetuate it, us women, when we make penis size jokes. And, you know, poor men, I feel terrible for them. They really associate the size of their penis with their ability to be a good lover, their self-esteem. And if they understood women's sexual pleasure, they could let go of that anxiety and they could enjoy sex more as well. There's a great book by Ian Kerner called

She Comes First. And it's really an oral sex how-to manual. But he talks in the beginning that he had severe premature ejaculation. And he found out, he thought, I can never please a woman. My penis isn't working and then he discovered the art of oral sex and found out he was making women very happy as he says in his book the tongue is mightier than the sword i love that that's a great one yeah and like i you said it's as old as time and i i think there's this like whole locker room bro mentality behind it and it's more so it was like okay the bigger i'm more manly and that's just like, oh. And I'm like, yeah, I'm glad you also mentioned here four to 18 percent of women can orgasm through their vagina, which is great. Great for them. Yeah. Well, can I gently say no?

OK, sure. Back a little. Yes. When I hear that narrative, good for them, they're the lucky ones. that fuels this idea that that is the right way right that fuels the idea that that's the ideal and instead i really encourage women if you orgasm from penetration great the orgasm from penetration combined with clitoral stimulation great if you orgasm from just clitoral simulation Great. They're all equal. They're all equally good ways of experiencing orgasm. Yes. And I guess what I meant by that is they clit and the vagina is two ways that can orgasm. I have great orgasms clitorally and I'm happy about that. But you're right. No, I understand. Like, I'm trying to confront you. I just hear that so much that in part of my messaging is

making sure we're thinking about it being okay, no matter what. Yeah, we do need to change the narrative. And I really applaud you for that because it's not going to, you know, this this patriarchal way of sex is not going to stop unless we start to change the narrative in the words. So that's why. Yeah. So thank you for accepting that so graciously, even though clearly I misunderstood what you were saying. So I apologize. No, please.

I want to learn and I want to help people out there just like you. And I want to not say things that are not going to make the changes. So I mean, I have a teenage daughter. I want her to to go into this world a little bit different than I did. So I love that. I love it for you. And I love that for her. She's lucky.

She's lucky. Thank you. You know, my parents, especially my mom, I don't think she really I was a product of a teen pregnancy. And so it was just like, don't get pregnant, don't have sex. But it wasn't anything about pleasure. It wasn't anything about normalcy. And yes, you're going to have hormones, but just don't have sex. So I wanted to have a different conversation with my daughter and not shaming that pleasure is wonderful. Yes, you should protect yourself and all of these things and be smart and have consent and make sure you are, I think being

consensual is so huge these days. Your daughter's very lucky. She's very lucky that she's got you as a mom to have these open, honest, educating conversations that aren't shaming. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. Well, I'm going to buy the book and give it to her. Awesome. I've heard a lot of moms buy it for their young adult or older teen daughters. Yeah. Because to empower them sexually, you know, and there's a whole chapter on communication to teach them how to talk to partners. So I hope your daughter benefits from it. Oh, I'm sure she will, because I we didn't have this, you know, available to us. So because you chose this path of research and writing books And there is no shame around it.

It's just about educating and communicating, like you said. So thank you for that, really. Well, thank you. Okay, I think I have one last question. And it's really a little bit more personal. And I ask all of my guests, what was one of your favorite dates? And what was it? Does it have to be a date?

Or can it be like an actual? I mean, I'm 63. Okay. I've been married for 37 years. Okay. So I can't really think of a date, but I can think of an immediate memory that comes to mind. I love it. Perfect. So my husband and I were on our honeymoon. So it's 37 years ago and he loves camping and I like nice hotels. Right. So right from the get-go we had to compromise and we did half and half and the funny thing is that side note like I liked the camping best he liked that nice hotel but we got to the campground and it was a really special campground and we were driving and I had wanted to stop for food because I was

hungry he was like no because there's this great you know restaurant at the campsite and I was like really hungry and crabby we get there and the restaurant's closed no food and it's pouring rain and I'm real crabby okay really crabby I was not my best self I sat in the car mad with my arms crossed while he pitched the tent in the rain and no food and then we crawl in the tent and he was like look I have some sardines and a bottle of wine like could this do for dinner and so we had some wine and sardines and the rain was pounding outside and it turned out to be one of the most romantic wonderful evenings ever and now we always laugh about wine and sardines is it that's amazing yeah so it's uh maybe it was the rain maybe it was the

wine. Maybe it was the sardines. Maybe it was the low expectations followed by wonderful connections, but it's a memory I will always cherish. Oh, thank you for sharing. Sounds lovely after you got fed, right? Yes, exactly. No more hangry. No more hangry. After I was not hangry, I could then be horny. Yes. I love that. Well, thank you so much for being on today's show and educating everybody and please go buy her books and read them because I think every woman, man should be educated on the female body and the pleasure zones and all of that good stuff. And just go ahead and I know this will be on the show notes, but do you want to go ahead and tell everybody where they can connect with you beyond here. My website is www.drlauriemintz.com. So D-R-L-A-U-R-I-E-M-I-N-T-Z.com.

From there, you'll find links to my books, my social media. I'm most active on Instagram and Facebook. And my handle there is the same. It's Dr. Laurie Mintz. So I'd love you to check out my website. Follow me on Instagram. Thank you. Sounds amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Well, thanks for having me and for all you do to spread. Oh, thank you. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Come and hang out with me on Instagram at Celeste Moore image. Let me know your thoughts on today's episode because I always love hearing from you all. You can find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website, CelesteMoore.com. Okay, that's all for now. I'll see you in the next episode.

See you next time, friends.