Moore Style - Using the Enneagram in Your Relationships with Barb Ranck

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Enneagram specialist Barb Ranck joins us this week for an insightful conversation about personality types.    If you’re like me, you’re always looking for ways to better understand yourself and others, which is where the Enneagram comes in.Barb gives us a breakdown of the motivation of each Enneagram type and how they respond under stress when triggered. Whether you’ve heard of it before or it’s your first time learning your type, everyone can benefit from this episode. Keep listening to help improve your relationships, communication, and life.   In this week’s episode, we discuss: [1:35] About Barb Ranck [2:53] Barb’s pathway to coaching  [5:40] What is the Enneagram? [9:02] Using the Enneagram in relationships  [14:11] Are men more willing to ask for help in the workplace? [17:59] Moving towards a “neutral” place [20:30] How the Enneagram helped Barb in her life and relationships [26:00] Trauma’s impact on our patterns [29:18] Are we more attracted to people similar or opposite to us? [32:37] How the 9 Enneagram types are at their best, under stress, and what their triggers are [58:08] Using your Enneagram type to improve your life [1:01:24] Barb's favorite date   Connect with Barb:    Website     Linkedin   Facebook   Email Barb to get a 15% discount on the Enneagram test at [e-mail]

Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Celeste Moore, and you are listening to the Down and Dirty podcast, aka the Double D's of dating. This is a podcast for navigating the ins and outs of modern midlife dating. Here, we will discuss the challenges that men and women face in today's dating world. Like many industries, this one is forever changing, and I believe this platform will help those who need or want it. Today, it is the best time to take control of your desired outcome, whether it is a marriage, significant other, life partner, or just to gain the confidence in dating once again. Every other week, we will dive in and talk about different viewpoints that seem to be challenges in today's dating arena. So let's get into today's episode.

Welcome to another episode of the Down and Dirty podcast. As always, I am your host, Celeste Moore. And I just wanted to thank everybody again for listening and jumping on these, you know, these amazing episodes, all these great guests I have. I hope everybody can learn something and relate to something or laugh a little bit here. And please, if you can, go ahead and rate the show, review the show. It's much needed and loved. And I appreciate you all. Now, before I jump into today's episode, I'd love to introduce my guest today. I'm so honored to have Barb Rank today. She is a coach and her passion is helping people learn and grow, which includes a 20 plus year career in corporate learning and development roles,

training employees and consulting with leaders in large companies, including a Fortune 500 financial service company. And she's helping those she served become more professional and productive. So Barb coaches and trains individuals and teams to become more productive, collaborative and self-aware. While Barb uses a variety of assessments in her work, she specializes in Enneagram Holding a Practitioner Certification through IEQ-9 Integrative Enneagram. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Barb, for being on today's show. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. I really am more relatable than that description. I just like words. Hey, you know, it's good to learn about you and that is a lot of through what you do and your,

all your certifications and what you do for people. So I love that. Before I kind of want to tell a little bit about and ask you some of these questions, if you don't mind, how did you come to the field of coaching? What was kind of your pathway there? Yeah. And by the way, thank you so much, Celeste, for having me and just helping me spread the word about this topic and these assessments and how they can help people not just learn about others with themselves and have better relationships and better outcomes. Yes. I love that. Yeah. I have an educator's heart. I have a background in high school English secondary education. So I was supposed to be a high school English teacher. That's why I love words so much. Ended up getting a job in corporate

America as a trainer, facilitator, teaching leadership classes and other classes like that throughout my whole career. That is where I learned some of the tools that I didn't have. And I didn't realize I didn't have those tools growing up. Things like how to really step into conflict, how to manage your own stress, how to communicate well. And I remember thinking, I want everyone to have these tools, whoever wants them, not just the people in my company. So with coaching, that is a relatively new thing I've been teaching for a very long time. Okay. And I became a certified coach about five years ago. That's when I learned even more models and tools. And then again, I was like, I want everyone to have these models if they want to

be better communicators and have better relationships. And so I left corporate voluntarily to go do this on my own in March of 2020. Did not see Google pandemic on my business plan. Nobody did, right? No, but because of the work I had done on myself and, you know, building up to that point, I'm here three years later. And I'm here today talking about this particular model, the Enneagram, because it's one of just the one that I think is one of the most effective to quickly kind of learn about yourself, develop empathy as well. Well, we all need help communicating. You know, I think we learn so much from our parents and some are great communicators, but most of them just kind of, you know, teach the way that they were taught and don't think

anything of it. Right. So as you have come along these effective ways of communicating and building relationships, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's amazing. I really can't wait to hear a little bit more about the Enneagrams because I actually did take that test like two years ago I was suggested by a woman I came in contact with and she says you know this is really like fascinating so I don't know much about it and I don't know who knows about it listening to today but I think we're going to learn and I'm really excited to to hear about it so could you explain what this Enneagram test is yep so it's a model a personality type model enneagram ennea is greek for nine and gram is greek for model so it's a nine type model

when i first saw it i almost completely rejected it outright because it's got a bunch of lines and circles and it looks like a pentagram i was like yeah i don't know if i need to i don't know about that however i'm a learner and so i took the test i scored high on three different types i started reading about them and then i almost felt like someone was following me around with a camera since my youth. I was like, how did they know this about me? They don't know me. But on one hand, it was nice to know that I'm one of many. Right. And I've got my own quirks and habits. We all do. The second part, though, was like it told me a little too much about me. And there's parts I really didn't like or want to know. But as I sat with it and I'm a learning and development person,

I'm like, yeah, but is it true? Is it true that that's what I look like under stress and other people see it that I don't want to. And then I, you know, once I got not totally comfortable, but once I said, you know, that is true, that is true. Then I empowered myself to say, what do I want to do? And this is where the lines come in. And I'm not going to go deep into that, but it's important to really spend time learning your starting point on this nine pointed model, because then you do connect personality wise to two other types with these lines. That's why it starts to look like a pentagram. So for example, if you type as a one and we can get you to validate that, yes, that is your starting point, then you can connect to seven or four. And I'll

explain what all those types mean here today. Yeah. Well, you can look at like a healthy seven, you know, at your best, or you can look like a stressed out seven. You can look like a healthy four or a stressed out. And so it's, it's as complex as we are as humans, but it also explains why we have just so much trouble relating to each other sometimes because we're all just going through our own stuff at the same time okay well you said something really interesting because I thought like oh you take it and that's what you are for life but you can you can change that in the sense that maybe you're the same number but you're like you said you're you're less stressed out seven versus a stress out seven yeah yeah you can there's that there's also the free tests

aren't as thorough, I guess, with their algorithms. So you're going to get confused if you take a bunch of free tests, but I say start somewhere, right? Go ahead and start. And then the IEQ-9, and I'm kind of promoting this, but this was the one that if you just want to get to your accurate type immediately, then you can pay to get this test. Okay. And then it's also going to give you 23 to 46 pages of stuff that you can. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I'm a learner and I was like, I want it off. And then of course I became certified. So, so yeah, you do pretty much maintain your number, but you can jump around and look like different numbers depending on, you know, if you're in a good place or if you're stressed out. Interesting. Yeah. So now if you know your number, okay,

let's say, do you do this in a corporate settings? Absolutely. Yep. Okay. This is phenomenal. So what is it really just understanding say bob and share and work together and you know they've had a difficult time kind of understanding the way that they work and so on and so forth but now they know kind of how they deal with things does this seem to help them you know just likely like you said relatively communicate within you know like saying office setting yep you know okay yeah So any model, any model you use, you can use StrengthsFinders, the DISC profile, any one of the colors, they're going to give you a language. And that's what's really important to me is words. Let's have words to define why I'm doing or behaving or why you might be.

And it's not to box people. It's not to stereotype. It's to say that these things are going to be what they are. and then if each of us manages our stress well or at least tries right then we can move forward productively because there's always going to be stuff but we're always going to be who we are right so how can we recognize and move forward in a positive way even when things get sticky including like yeah i like that because yeah yeah you do obviously you've got work in relationships you've got whole relationships and pretty much any any person you come in contact with is some

type of you know you're having some type of relationship yeah oh this has changed my parenting because I realized my son and I are both alphas and I'm like well I have power and control and he knows that so what do I want more control or connection if I want connection I'm gonna have dial it down okay so you know to effectively for him to listen to you let's just say i mean yeah i'll actually i'll give an example as i go through the tapes i have to give him i have to give him total control over his options i have to give him a timeline and it has to be something that he agrees to not just because i told him so so okay and i know it's not going to get started until 4 55 the deadline's five o'clock and i know it'll be done at five o'clock

that's great though at least it gets done yes oh my gosh okay i need to have my daughter do this because there is a there's definitely like the same conversation happening over and over so yeah it's a little exhausting it is and it's not going to change because they're not going to change right right well effectively like i'm not trying to change her it's just trying to understand and teach like you said like where's what the words that are coming out of my mouth she might not understand right or communicate the way I'm hoping they are so yes so she definitely needs to take this too okay and I think I love to try your the IEQ9 because I think that's I think it's better to have too much information that's just me personally

me too me too so it tells me that you're also growth and development minded and yes there are other types that just aren't and I'm like what what but it's true and that's okay too right we're here for different reasons and we're not you know not everyone's here for everybody so especially when it comes to relationships this is good to know because you look to your primary relationship to to either get validation or fill some of those needs and it won't fill all of them but at least you'll know well I do need this this is who I am no that's a really great point because obviously You know, I, I'm in the dating world and teaching men how to, how to date and yeah. So what do you think having this knowledge, I mean, first date, second date, is this going

to, is this going to matter? Is it going to be like more, okay, maybe a couple of dates down the road? Well, I think in general, everybody understanding themselves to this degree is going to be helpful on any day. Okay. If the date does not speak Enneagram, that's not a bad thing. But the way that they speak will give you insight as to what they really care about. And I'm to the point now where I can't not listen to people and go,

ooh, I've got them down to about three different types. And you should not type people without, you know, their permission or letting them go on their own journey. But I can pick up on the empathetic types really quickly. And then I'll start speaking in their language. And they're like, it's like, you know me. And I'm like, well, I know your motivations. that I know what makes you, you, and that's great, right?

So I can validate along the way. That's it. Yeah, no, that's huge, right? Because people want to be heard. People want to be validated, like you said. And it's not that you're, how do I put this? It's not like you're trying to just please them or not make yourself happy.

You're just trying to communicate effectively in a way that everyone's being heard. And I think that's such a huge and important tool in any kind of relationship. Wow. So how can we use this to get along with others? I mean, that's a prime example, right? Yeah. So first of all, I do training, but I also do individual coaching.

I either do leadership coaching or life coaching or a mix of both, depending on what you want. But I ultimately say, I help you lead yourself well so that you can lead others well, whatever that role will be for you. within that most of my clients right now are male which is fun and I've not done a study on this but here's what I'm seeing men are more willing to ask for help and resources sooner in a workplace setting I don't know if that's true or not but these gentlemen coming to me are like hey I think I need help with this can you help me and I'm like so you just found a resource and reached out yeah okay women are a little more hesitant to get vulnerable or get to that place or they're

going to try to fix it themselves. And I would put myself in that bucket. I was going to try to fix everything myself until all my jewels didn't work anymore. Um, and that was because now my Enneagram type I had take, okay, I get really excited. So I'm going to pull back. No, good to get excited. How I, how I train and how I coach people is it's good to know this information because all of these are dials, um, internal dials. They're kind of like your, your cockpits and you look at your instrument panel, okay? So once you understand these things about yourself, your dials are at the best setting

when they're actually in neutral. So picture your car thermostat. You want your car thermostat to be pointing up because it's not too cold or it's not too hot. You're going to be running most effectively when everything's kind of in a good place. So as we understand each other, ourselves and the other person,

we're going to need to pay attention to when is our dial at its best? When are we at neutral? What are the environments? What are the conversations? What hobby, whatever, whatever it is, like what keeps me in neutral, even if it's hard, even if it's challenging. And then watch yourself outside of that, you know, either too cold or too hot. It's going to be based on, yeah, but I'm this type and I have these needs. Well, that's great. That's never going to go away. But is this the environment, the conversation or the relationship that's going to get you that thing. And you can literally be asking yourself every single time, like with my son, do I really want his room to be clean? Because I just want to see

his room clean. And I'm sitting here getting all bent out of shape because I'm a goal oriented person. And why wouldn't you want to keep your room clean? And what does it say about me as a parent and on and on and on? Or do I really want you to remember that you were safe, right? I took care of you. And if you don't want to clean your room, I'm just going to assume that your wife's going to nag you and you'll listen then. Right. So in that moment, I have to really look at my own dials and I'm getting myself all jacked up, but it's, it's not going to get me the outcome I really want, which is connection. So I've got a dial. Oh, that's a, it's a great analogy too. It's interesting, you know, how you say that men are the first to come to you versus women

in the workplace, I think it makes total sense because men are such career-focused individuals. Well, it has been, right? It's been a societal norm. Usually that's been the case, whereas I find in the personal setting, it's much more difficult for men to say, you know, I think I need some assistance. I think I need help in this area. But it's interesting how you just kind of said that no in the work setting I think women are like yeah I can it's going to be the last thing I'm going to do is ask for help so and yet something you just brought up you know I don't want to stereotype again this is people in boxes so what I love about this model as I describe it today there are nine types of men there are nine types of women there are introverted

versions of these types. There are extroversion. So I love that people can see themselves and say, oh my gosh, I am a, this is the type of man I am. And I don't look like what is typically described. And I may not be ambitious in corporate, but I just want to show up and do the best job I can. That's not wrong. It's just a certain type and personality. And then do you also want that in relationship outside of it? And are you getting your needs met? Right. Do you think that the people that get along most do they get along with the same number or is that you know yeah the way that I teach it in a way that is most healthy is every type including whether your relationship or just co-workers every type can get along with every other type as long as both

types are moving toward neutral right they're they're wanting to stay as healthy as possible recognizing that their valid or their perspective is valid and they may have a preferred way of doing things but the other person does too and which one's wrong maybe they're both right so it's it's staying neutral without losing yourself which is hard you know easy to say hard to do so that's what we coach them but it's also recognizing that that feeling that you get when you're getting resentful or bitter or feeling hopeless or help whatever that is that's data got to tell you your dials may be off. Oh, yeah. And if you can manage your own dials, well, the rest of the stuff kind of takes care of itself. And I've learned this. I've taught it. I would

not be if I worked through all of it. I say I'm kind of like a chiropractor for your brain. I go in and make some adjustments. And then let's keep working together to keep those muscles strengthened. Okay. It's good to know that there's no like everybody can get along with any type as long as you're in neutral and that's probably somewhat of a challenge or maybe not a challenge maybe it's just new data for people to to kind of take in and practice like you said right constantly working on themselves or working to keep themselves in neutral so yeah I do wow this is just fascinating I've taken a few different type of personality tests but this was really I didn't do the 23 page you know enneagram yet but it's coming

um so how did learning your enneagram type help you have better outcomes in life and in relationships yeah so again i didn't learn this one until about six years ago and i had been through every other assessment known to corporate until then big companies pay you to learn these things and okay ultimately what i kept learning and validating was that i'm a self-starter i you don't have to turn me on to go to work. I love working. I love helping people learn and grow. So I was in those roles. I'm a functional citizen. So I'm always going to be like what's expected of me and I'll try to meet those expectations. Usually succeed them because I'm competitive as well. Yeah. But I noticed and I couldn't articulate this at the time, but I didn't have a lot of deep

connected friendships or relationships because I was working so much. And the people that I did connect with were around projects or tests or you know and it's like okay okay but they don't really know me and then I realized I don't even know who to talk to about getting to know me because that that would slow me down and that would be way too horrible and that feels gross and weak and so I'll just keep working okay I and I didn't know any of this because it's like asking a fish what does water feel like and they're like what are you talking about what is water. So normal. So normal. So I ended up taking this quiz as part of my certification to become a life coach. And all of a sudden I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Working too hard can

be an overcompensation for fear and trauma. Are you serious? Yes. Congratulations. And so this gift that I have inside of me, which is self-starting, it's why I knew I could manage my own business because I just I never not want to work but I also wasn't allowing or or creating space to be human and so I looked more like a male I mean the stereotypical you know let's just get her done and we don't need feelings to do the job and I don't need you don't know there's no crying and working all this stuff and and a huge part of me knew that wasn't true but I didn't know how to do anything else. I grew up as a farm girl. This is, you know, there's a lot of language that goes along in farming that there's no crying in farming. So my Enneagram type ended up being a

three, which we'll talk about, but I'm stereotypical. Threes are workhorses. They don't like vulnerability. They don't want to fail. They fear that behind the mask, no one will understand who they are. They might not be liked. They don't even know if they like themselves. There's all this stuff and this is deeper than I normally go in corporate but I know this is a relational podcast so then I realized okay so for me to get vulnerable I had to start small find a few friends talk about our feeling I mean I'm this is a long journey but it you have to start somewhere and and I'm having to do it because I'm in a coaching class and I'm like this is And yet it was a muscle I had not exercised for a long time.

And so, of course, you're not going to be able to pick up the 50 pound barbells. First, you got to pick up the five pounders and not work to make space for connected friendships. Then I realized the friendships that I mostly had were, you know, happy hour at the bar. And yeah, we could get into some deep conversations that I couldn't remember the next day. And we always had to get back to work. And so I did like one on one time. I just didn't need alcohol to do it. So I just as I started to really pay attention to my type, what it needs, what's really healthy for it. That's when I realized I see why people may not want to get this vulnerable because it's hard. But I'm healthier than I've ever been. I coach from a place of wisdom. I know how hard this is going to be. Let's go. yeah right but I give you a language to say this has always been true for you what's the healthiest version and how can I help you get there yeah I think as a coach or a consultant

or a therapist or any kind of place where you're you know educating to make them and give them tools to help them succeed it's always I'm not saying that everybody has to have their story but it's important for them to connect with you in the sense that, you know, yes, I've also struggled to get to this place or whether it's corporate or not or relationship. And I think that's really the connection, right? When people really trust you, they really say, okay, I believe you, Barb, because you've experienced something that you're teaching. I think I've really found that that's probably the people that reach out to me the most. And I love that you, you, I don't know how much you share. You probably don't, like you said, you probably don't share a whole lot in

corporate, but I think the more we share our story, I really feel that that's when someone is like, yes, that was me because they lived through you, right? They live through your experience. and i i want to be careful with language again it's not that i don't go there in corporate but i don't start there it's corporate okay yeah yeah that makes sense and i only bring that up because i've mentioned a t word earlier trauma and i have just totally understood the impact of a lot of us are going through a lot of stuff but there's big stuff that these types and their patterns if we don't realize that we've been impacted by big T stuff that has kind of, I don't know where it is, almost frozen us a little bit in certain spots. We might need extra work to get

beyond the repetitive patterns that have been lodged even deeper because of trauma. And so I do love this model to give you a language to say, you're not broken. You're just starting from this point. And here's your path forward by type, right? Like, this is also true for you at the healthiest level. Yes. And then when I saw it, I was like, how do I get there as fast as possible? You cannot bring that energy to this journey. And I'm like, I think, don't tell me what to do. And eventually they were correct. So did you find that your number stemmed from as long as you could remember back like until you were bitty bitty? Yeah, this model has actually been around for years and years, but it's had more of a spiritual slant to it. And that's why corporate,

I think was like, I don't want to touch that. I get it. This, the IEQ9 is the most corporate version that I have found and it does not contain any of the spiritual language. However, it also doesn't skimp on vulnerability and blind spots. So it gives you your 360 performance review is what I say, but from a person that doesn't even know you. And if you find that it is true, then how do you want to set the tone for how you show up at work yeah and I'm gonna imagine too how do you set yourself up for being successful in finding your partner or yes a long-term relationship you know I think how important it is to really understand ourselves the best we can possibly I mean we're always gonna be learning I really do feel that way in life because if we're not

learning, we're dying. We're not growing, we're dying. But I feel that when you go to say, I want to work for this company, or I want to, this is who I want to marry, right? Let's just use marriage as the end goal here. And so making sure that you know yourself as best as possible is so important. And if you have a tool like this, the Enneagram test, why wouldn't you learn more about yourself and the way that you handle things. So I consider it an investment. We're all making investments with our time, whether it's work, parenting, relationships, ourselves.

And again, when those things get out of balance, that's when we start to feel out of balance. But where would you want to choose to make an investment that gives you the biggest return? For sure. And again, you can get along with each of these types, but which type might you want to start investing more time with? I think we naturally do it today, but this helps us really be intentional.

Yeah. Have you found that, and I think I keep going back to this because I think it's fascinating. You'll go over the types here. I think that might be a great tool to let everybody know here. But you said everybody can get along, right? If you're in neutral. What if, but do you find that it's a little bit more people are attracted to the opposites or in the similarities?

Especially for whatever reason in romantic relationships. And I do some couples coaching. Okay. My EQ9 also has a couples report. Ooh. That's fascinating. It's your own 46 page report. It will give you a combined report to say, here's each of you together and how you react

and respond and some ideas for you guys. Do you find that, I know everybody can get along with everyone, but do you find that the opposite numbers are attracting each other or if it's the numbers that are very similar yes well a lot of times in romantic relationships opposites do attract because there's something about that other person that is natural to them but not natural to you and vice versa okay just natural and you're attracted to that because you don't naturally have that but they're just being themselves around you and then it's they're being natural and vice versa and then over time both of us are maybe trying to get back more comfort zones in relationship because relationships are kind of

messy and hard and then it becomes annoying right like why aren't you more like me we couldn't get this long so neither of you are ever going to change right but here's how I coach couples I say You know, the definition for me of a healthy, positive relationship is each person still being able to positively influence the other one to control them. But are they still willing to listen and be influenced and vice versa in a positive way? It's not manipulation. It's not coercion. It's, you know, even what are we going to eat tonight?

Mexican or pizza? Will we get pizza the last three times? OK, Max. I mean, it's small things. They add up to big things. yeah you made a really good point there because yeah i think you know i'm not a i'm not a therapist or a how should i say it i do coach men how to deal with you know bringing spice back to their relationships and and of that nature but it's interesting how as i'm learning all this

the the couples right they they kind of fascinate me because oh this is just what we've done for 30 years. So it's okay. And I'm like, but that's not healthy. And then I was like, but what if he did this? Well, it's just, I don't want to change because, because it's too much. And I'm thinking he'd rather live a little bit miserable because it just adds easier. And it's interesting how like, you're like, no, you can, you can actually, if you both growing together or if you're both making each other, like you said, pushing each other, right. In a good direction or, you know, giving something positive to the relationship. I guess it doesn't have to be everywhere,

but that's really interesting you made that point because I think it's so easy to get comfortable. It is, and there's certain types of this model that would prefer comfort over other things. So if that's their starting point, you can push them out a little bit, but they're always going to try to get back to status quo. At this point, yeah, it might be a good transition

just to start talking about each of the nine types, going through them pretty quickly at a high level. I thought maybe today, since we're talking about relationships and communication, I could talk about each of the types, where they're at their best, what will trigger them, and then what they will look like under stress.

Each type has a different trigger point. So you picture just a circle model and there's a type one that's at the one o'clock position and then all the way up to type nine is actually in the 12 o'clock position. Just picture me going around the circle Okay. I'm going to start with type one. Okay. So type ones, picture this person, they're called the improvers and their special gift that drives them, whether they know it or

not, is they want to improve themselves, their relationship, their situation, or the world all the time. Okay. Which is kind of a heavy burden, right? But once they're like, that's my job. That's what I'm here to do. I can't look at something and just not say something because it could be done better. This plan could be done better. This report could be done better. And so they're truly guided by this sense of inner rightness. It's just part of who they are. But you're going to hear a lot of language from a one. Well, if we're going to do this, we might as well do it right. We need to do this with excellence. They're extremely responsible and type ones are the most naturally self-disciplined of all nine types wow okay so

picture these poor ones not poor ones they don't think they're like they're fine with it but it is ones that are so self-disciplined and looking at some of the other types going why can't you just be self-disciplined and the other types is like because i'm not a one and so they're they're also detail oriented i had a relationship in my life with a type one and they would ask me questions about you know well how do you how do you part your son's hair and i was like i don't even brush his hairs don't worry but knowing that i was just like i need to provide more information for them to show okay i see what you're saying yep so the the thing about ones what's going to trigger them is if they sense that they're not going to get it right or we're not doing it right because

in their literal or internal compass there's a right way to do things um and so if they're not being right or we're not going to do it right that's going to trigger them how do you know that one has been triggered here's how they're going to show up they're going to go from giving information about what could be done right to now going into micromanaging mode remember the dials It's going to start turning critical, condescending, hit-picking, and just angry, right? But they're not going to think they're angry. They're going to be like, I am giving helpful input. But they don't sense or feel that their dial has been kicked up because they're afraid of getting it wrong or not being right.

Okay. All right. So that's just a really small snippet of a one. And I say, you know, with ones and how we coach, it's like, you know, who defines right? and and where is it really important to get it right and where other times you can let that go which one will always tell you i can't let that go that's why i'm here okay but that's what every type is going to say no this is my way of doing things but i'm like then where is it helpful and where is it harmful so it's a good point yeah so moving on to number two right next door this one

is called the helper remember you're going to get a very different energy from this type there are three of the nine types that are naturally empathetic. How I define that is there are three types of the nine types that naturally can access their emotions to the point where they can actually sense other people's emotions and they pick up on that type of energy in a room or relationship or even in themselves naturally. So picture six other types that can get there, but they don't start there okay and and then a type that's just like this is where i start this is who i am so in relationship this type wants relational connection and they want to do the heart talk you know if we can go there so they are very cooperative types by definition helpers

they want to serve others and they will actually do it sacrificially okay natural with them they will they will give more of themselves because it actually gives them kind of a dopamine hit they feel good when when could a helper type get stressed there's a couple situations their love language is appreciation and so if all they're ever hearing from a one is how they still didn't get it right that's that's going to trigger a two because they just need to hear you know good job or you know i couldn't do this without you that's that'll spill their cup automatically yeah so if they're not hearing that or they're in a situation where everyone is completely independent and no one needs help that actually triggers a two wow they're like but i've got this beautiful gift

why don't you want this and then it's they start to kind of stress themselves out what will happen then is a two is going to to take this beautiful gift and dial it way too high up if they're stressed and they don't know that this is happening they're going to over help they're going to find ways to insert themselves and and be of service to somebody because they need to get this thing out okay then other people are going to come and start to depend on that thinking wow this person can produce like crazy and then all of a sudden the two can't say no they're overburdened they're exhausted they're resentful and they're kind of getting mad at people for not appreciating them more what i hear when i talk to twos is that you've you've had your

dial up too high for a while right and it's time to take care of you and serve you and then how can we do that in ways that are practical a lot of times you know when you're in stress you it's all or nothing thinking well i have to just being who i am and start no no no you're just going to turn your dial down okay um but they they really truly fear that they're going to disappoint others and that's just part of that type story and it may not be true gotcha number three threes are the achievers the performers these are i call them the goal getters you don't have to turn on a three to work so this is mostly my type they are goal driven achievement driven they want to be successful however they're defining that it doesn't have to be material but they they like that they like to

have money to be able to get whatever they want. They're competitive. And so with this type, they're great in corporate, quite frankly, because they're just willing to work and they'll work harder than other people. And they'll look at what do you expect from me? And then they usually choose to go above it. They speak the language of results. And so that's great in corporate. It can be problematic in relationships. It sounds like those two don't go well together. Right. So so then I think about a three is they value efficiency. How can we get there as quickly as possible? You're hearing right. This is really problematic when you're trying to build connected, authentic relationships. Oh, yeah. Because they take time and they are kind of messy. And, you know, if they're authentic, they are. right? They're also not necessarily productive. So when I, I think about talking to my husband or my son, you know, for me to come at it with, well, when are we going to get to the outcome of

this situation and how quickly can we get there? And when are you going to have your room clean? And why isn't it clean? I hear that that's kind of a natural language for me, but I also hear where it's been keeping me from what I want most, which is connection with the people that I love the most. Yeah. Yeah. And so I, I know I get stressed out when I perceive that whatever conversation I'm in, it's not going officially and we're not being productive. I mean, that's literally built into my DNA. And then I have to sit there and just work through, okay, but is that what's needed in this situation, this conversation in this moment? And if the answer is no, I have to turn it down otherwise otherwise I'm going to try to get out of there as quickly as possible

and get back to work yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna do that thing I'm already good at and work work work turn into a workaholic push myself beyond my limits uh eat too much drink too much you name it you know work hard tardy hard but it's not in balance and then and then drace can get really angry they go they go straight to like let me tell you what I think about that but it's because they're not checking in and acknowledging and taking care of themselves. They've got it in them. They just need help kind of bringing it out of your stress. Okay. All right. Moving on to type fours. Type fours are the second most empathetic type. There's three totals. That's the second one. This type is called the creative and also the individualist.

they do tend to be those people not those people that it's a thing stereotypically these are the types that become artists the photographers or graphic designers or screenwriters or bloggers or whatever because they've got this way of bringing something to the world that you have to look at or experience and then go yeah that i can get that right but it's not always just through a conversation it's there's some sort of beauty or artwork so the thing about fours they're kind of misunderstood they themselves feel misunderstood because they have the the largest emotional language of all the types and then all the other types don't have that language and so they're trying to get deep and connect on this profound emotional level and if if they're working

with the type reading with the type that doesn't get that or they can't get there right away the floor just feels disconnected yeah and that's one of their biggest fears is disconnection or being misunderstood okay the other thing about floors is they have to have meaning and purpose they have to know how this connects to something more big and more beautiful and more meaningful than just please put the file folder in the whatever and have it right they hate that which doesn't work for them but it does that so imagine a four in corporate or in a very transactional relationship where they don't get to be their authentic genuine emotional selves or express that in any way they're going to become extra fours become extra moody extra intense

extra aggressive extra emotional just extra whatever and then what happens is it kind of pushes other types away because on the surface a lot of types aren't ready or don't know how to deal with that so then they tamp it down and pull people back in but it's got to go somewhere so it comes back out and it's called the push-pull stress relationship of a four ultimately to get the dial back in we've got to find another way for a four to release that creativity and not try to put it all in one or two buckets that makes sense because it's it's a beautiful thing to bring to the world it's just we have to miss it a little bit type fives are the exact opposite of what i just described they have got this beautifully deep profound four on an emotional level and then

right next door at five the analyst the investigator that just wants to stick with ax jacks and that's their love language their love language is learning knowledge information and the thing about fives is they're they can also be misunderstood because they just want to kind of be by themselves they they get the most joy by being in their brain and learning new things and connecting these dots and foul shoulders and they get really excited about it now at the same time they can be so smart because they spend so much time learning and you know just thinking and connecting that they can sound a little eccentric when they're just trying to have a natural conversation and we're like what you lost me a hypothesis of the what so if if they can find

people to match them at that intellectual level that makes them really happy but they don't often have a lot of energy to go out and just make new friendships or find those people the biggest thing for fives is they're trying to maintain self-sufficiency okay they don't want to depend on anyone naturally and so picture that coming into a relationship they know they need connection they know they need to commit and and to be with someone in that way right but that's taking away something that they value and so if they're willing to give that in a relationship you've really connected with a five oh wow yeah yeah so what could trigger them having too many people encroach on their territory you know having all these dependencies where you have to get this done

you know otherwise you know this is going to happen that's going to cause them to actually pull back and even isolate they're also going to sound like a one with the tone like condescending critical the five you'll know the five is really stressed when they and I'm just going to you know be very generic but they yeah they make you feel dumb because they're telling you how smart they are okay well if only you people had learned or read the entire manual from front to back like i did you adulted this piece of whatever and you're like well but what they're saying is i don't want to have to be the person that you all depend on so i just need to back out that's what they're saying yeah um so just just looking at these lenses of dress patterns and it probably

has nothing to do with the person they're talking to it's all coming from inside them they just don't know how to communicate in a different way communicate in a different way and now when i see my own self is getting into workaholism. I'm like, I don't know what other need is being unfulfilled that I need to get. Yeah, I know where this path goes. Sorry. All right. We have a couple left. Type six. They're called the anticipators. They're also called the loyalists. And here's the thing about a six. Their gift is their brainpower to constantly be assessing risks and trying to come up with a plan to keep us out of doom, basically. So sixes don't understand that other people's brains don't naturally work like this.

And there's not a problem with it. It's just this is how a six's brain works. They're constantly thinking things like, what have we done about this? And what if this happens? And do we have a backup plan? And then do we have a backup plan to the backup plan? I heard, I read this article that that thing could happen. And so do we have, let's make sure we fit that into.

I don't want anything to go wrong on my watch because I want to keep people safe that I care about, including myself. So sixes are very much about safety, security, support. And they are one type. I wouldn't say the type, but they're one type that needs an external authority figure of some sort because they're kind of naturally anxious and self-doubting anyway. Like what if this goes wrong? What if this goes wrong? They look outside themselves and they say, am I going to be okay? And that could be a spouse. That could be a leader. That could be an institution like a church or something. But the six is looking outside themselves saying, am I going to be okay? Someone please tell me I'm going to be safe and supported. Okay. So if you're working with a six,

if you love a six, you know, kind of now be observing and saying, who are they going to to check in and make sure they're okay, because that's the person they're going to be the most loyal to. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So what stresses out at six? You know, things that going according to plan, which is every day. All the time. Now they can handle it. They can handle a lot, but as they get more stressed, they start to really get anxious about, we cannot possibly move forward until I have answers to every single one of my questions. And we haven't figured this minuscule remote thing out yet so let's not move ahead parenting wise sixes i've coached a lot of sixes they're like but it could happen it could happen and i'm like but will it

and they're like but it could yeah it's just really a matter of working through some of these fears and they're going to need to be in a safe space with a person they trust okay you know it's recognizing that that's their style sevens a little different sevens of the optimists of the model. Twos are also highly optimistic and twos and sevens can get confused. But the two helper energy is just always going to be externally focused at the emotional connections and then who can I help that's hurting them. Sevens don't like to sit in any emotion generally other than optimism or adventure or excitement or what's new and what's next. And so they do have a lot of external energy but it's on what can we look forward to what's going to be

most interesting most exciting and it's not truly so bad for sevens during covid oh i know man right because everything was taken away they may be sitting down at home or at work with people they don't really like that much spending a lot of time with them i don't know i made that up yeah right you know but that is going to stress a seven out and what's interesting is a seven will try as hard as they can to reframe it to a positive guys this isn't going to be that long we're going to get through this you know this isn't the last thing and they're going to keep rephrasing it rephrasing it but just like covid things some things just take longer and they're hard and they need to be right but a seven's going to try to flip through that as quickly as possible and

then they're going to get really mad other people are being debbie downers and you're raining on my three and I can't believe this. And then they're just going to bolt, right? Because these are emotions that they aren't default naturally aware that they can sit in because they're just so darn optimistic. So it's okay for sevens to be exactly who they are and build the muscles to work through those times during life when stuff just gets harder. Yes, that makes sense. Wow. That was such a great one for that for seven so then man oh everybody but of course and then sixes sixes and fives are out there checking the cdc website like what's the source of truth and are we going to die okay i don't want to diminish any of this that was a right huge example of all of us had to

face some of our biggest fears for sure and our stress level up to a thousand and learn like you said use muscles we never knew that we actually had and they're in there we just we aren't trained how to use them we're trained how to be really productive so yeah yeah i get it okay we're gonna wrap up with the last two who are also kind of very opposite each other but i'll start with the eight so the eight is called the challenger and i would say this is probably one of the most obvious of all the types because aids aren't here for a popularity contest they know exactly who they are and they don't care if you like it or not. And they can be a little softer than that

if they're introverts, but eights just stand their ground. They really have that internal sense of this is what needs to be done and therefore let us move forward and let's get the job done. But you hear that energy is a little bit different from a one.

A one wants to do it with quality and excellence and a three just wants to do it as fast as possible. Ah, okay. Aids are saying, this is what I know is the right thing to do, but I'm called to do it. It's almost a mission for an aid. And typically where they get a bad rap is people just think they're being challenging for no reason or assertive for no reason. But if you look deep enough, if you can, if you can tolerate that kind of that presence, look for who they are trying to protect. because the eighth energy is trying to bring a voice to the voiceless or protect the innocent

somewhere in there the eight feels it's their obligation and duty to protect someone yeah so they're going to challenge people in a way that makes other people uncomfortable so that we can affect change that's kind of what they're trying to do now they don't realize that there are other ways to approach you know getting stuff done they just know that i can cut through the hard stuff and I don't care if you, you know, want to have a dialogue, right? This is the directive. And so they do get outcomes, but again, kind of like a three, they might also then miss relationship. Thing about AIDS is they do actually have a soft marshmallow inside. And so if you can get them around pets or small children, you'll see a very different side of an eight. Interesting.

They just, they mellow out. Oh yeah. And I have an eight son, so I can validate that. Yes. And animals? Yeah, we wanted a dog. We got a cat. He's just a mush pile around our cat. If you ever hear us, you'll be like, why are you talking about me?

Stop. We do that sometimes. I know. All right. So an eight that's under stress, it's a fine line because they go from assertive to aggressive. They go from commanding to controlling, almost intimidating.

and so you'll just see the dial up you'll see the dial you'll feel the dial go up higher they might not sense that because they just think they're being themselves but you'll just if you can again start you kind of look through the lens and say okay they're feeling like they're going to lose control they're feeling like the people they're defending are not going to be protected how can we pull back get the cortisol offline and have a conversation yeah so you know all right last up the very top now of this model is nine the peacemaker also called the mediator very different energy from what i just described the nine is at the top for a reason and that's because they listen to every description that i just gave of every other type and they're like yep i can see

it all i can see where the one can be right over here and i can see where the five just wants to be about themselves but they bring such value with their information and like six is protecting us risk giving doom and you know i just i love you guys nines naturally get other people because they see it that way so what's hard for a nine is to really understand well then what do i think and what's my perspective because i can see two where you could be right and three i can see where you want to be efficient and okay yeah so nine's greatest gift is their ability to find common ground they just do it naturally you don't even have to train them but their their biggest challenge is getting the time needed and having a safe space to bring their voice okay these are

also your comfort junkies nines like hurt okay because the world's kind of a crazy you know conflicting place that's not a word just made that up and so if they're having to expend a lot of energy managing all of this potential tension and potential escalation and just trying to keep things status quo then when they do check out to like a five they just want to go recharge and get internal harmony they're looking for peace and harmony um so they aren't necessarily going to want to go climb kilimanjaro right they'd probably be more content on a hammock right in between two and being outside yeah so a stressed out nine what's going to stress them out is people not hearing their voice but they're also stressing themselves out because they don't want to bring

their voice because then they feel that it could create conflict and separation interesting you know it's this it's an internal thing for a nine but and when they get stressed they're going to be what i call the two liter of anger so they're going to keep shaking themselves up and shaking themselves up and then all of a sudden you turn the caps and it's been building up for a while but it's going to come out over the treasure or something really not like that level of anger doesn't match that situation uh-huh okay so all you're seeing there is a nine saying i've been building up over time i didn't get time to think i don't know what i need or want everyone just keeps moving forward but i don't know how to stop this dream and so they just get mad later

so I love my nines I love coaching nines and again remember they go to different numbers right so for all of these types I just say okay you've been approaching it from your starting point what if we could tap into some of these other points that you're connected to and how would that get a better outcome yeah so you know how you've described and and wonderfully all of the numbers but I is it possible that somebody is mostly a seven but a four and a two you know like because there's some things that you said oh oh that could be me or that could be me you know so maybe people are like well I'm three numbers so I don't know what to do which is why I love this model but it can also be very confusing we have aspects of every single one of these types

in us okay so if i and even if you take the ieq9 i can tell you your highest score was this so that's your starting point but you have this much of these other perspectives in you and the free the free results will tell you that as well gotcha but then each type has a very predictable pattern where they go to stress or at their best okay yep so i i just let you know here's what's going to trigger you here's why you're going to go here and here watch yourself if that's true then dial yourself because that's going to be hard enough work versus trying to fix someone else right it's just learn your own dials but then watch you watch and experience better outcomes yes watch yourself experience better outcomes knowing these patterns and then again what I do is I just start to observe

other people and watch them get stressed out and my heart goes out to them my heart goes out to sixes right but I'm like I I if you don't want to disrupt that pattern I'm going to make you you're an adult right right then I can also choose how much time I invest in a relationship with someone that's continuously stressed and not because not because they want to be but because they don't know that they're in a pattern or an eight challenger that has power control and just want their own way. And I'm like, that's great. I get to choose how much time I invest in that relationship to keep me healthy. So yeah, I think, yeah, you made a really good point, right? It's like, if you know, this person's this way, and they choose just to kind of be that way, no matter

what, then yes, you have the decision to say, how much time do you want to put into that relationship? Yeah, I do like that. And I think that's really important. And I, I love everything that you've really touched on. I mean, obviously, there's so much more that people can learn here and places to find you so they can find some more information about you. But this has been super helpful because I think everybody needs help in communicating, you know, dating, home life, work life. We can all benefit from knowing where we're at, knowing what our triggers are, knowing how to dial it down as you say and you know moving forward how can how can I be better like if I'm a three and I want to date maybe I need to like slow down and and not just be like

okay let's get it done we're going hiking and then we'll run a marathon and then what do you want to do after that it's like we just talk over you know a picnic at a lake That's amazing. Well, I love your work. I will ask one question that's a little personal. That's just because I ask everybody. And then after that, I'm going to let you tell everybody where to find you. What was one of your favorite dates? And what was it? So my husband and I have been married 23 years. We've known each other 27 or 8. I'm really bad with numbers so he'll that's okay he listens to me close enough um we we are both adventurers season seven so he's always down for whatever and we went on a hot air balloon ride and so

it's something i was like let's just do it it felt fun and then we get all the way there we get him up there and he just turns white he's shaking and but he goes i'm afraid of heights oh my god and so what makes it kind of funny is it was a favorite date just because wow that experience you know just it's not for everybody but we have that no one can take it away but it it created a and a way to have another conversation just about you never told me that he's like maybe you never listened you know but it was how are we missing each other and he didn't want to disappoint me and I was so excited and so it opened up a door for a conversation we wouldn't have had otherwise but what an experience to get out of your comfort zone.

Yeah. Oh man. Right. That is, yeah. Let's go on a hot air balloon ride. That's amazing. I've always wanted to do that, but yeah, thank you for sharing. Cause yeah, that did open up something else for you guys and you'll always have that. Right. The terror and excitement. That's part of the fun. Well, Barb,

I really appreciate you coming on and explaining the Enneagram to everybody and how useful it can be in communicating. Where can everyone listening today find you, find more about you, your services, anything that you want to talk about? Yeah. Well, my company name is Courageously Imperfect Coaching and Development. So for short, I just call it CI. My website is www.cilifecoach.com. I'm also on LinkedIn in under either Barb Rank or Courageously Imperfect Facebook, same handle. And then I'm available for training, speaking, presentations. I love talking about this topic. And then I do organizational and individual coaching. So if this is something you'd like to bring into your

organization, I love working with mid-level leaders because they're beyond kind of the, how do I not be friends with my employee, but lead them and they need a different set of tools. yeah but also just relationships so if there are couples who they're both willing and wanting to learn more about each other have a process for that that's perfect yeah then i have a couple's report and a program where you can get three coaching sessions most ever i love that i am so excited oh my gosh yeah well i can't wait to take the ieq9 because i took some free virgin or no maybe i paid like a little bit of money but it wasn't you know crazy but i want to learn more. So well, it's advantage if you work so you can go out and take it retail at $60 or

$120. If you go through me specifically, you'll get a 15% discount. So even better. Yeah. If you just want to email me, it's barb at CILifeCoach.com. Let me know which version of the test you want to take standard or pro and I can give you a discount. I think everybody here should do that because like I said, you know, my goal here is to educate, make the best version of yourself before you get out there. And that's wonderful. Everybody could use a little bit of discount here and there, right? Exactly. Thank you again for being on today's show. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Come and hang out with me on Instagram at Celeste Moore image. Let me know your thoughts on today's episode, because I always love hearing

from you all. You can find all the links and resources in the show notes of the episode on my website, Celeste Moore.com. Okay. That's all for now. I'll see you in the next episode. See you next time, friends. Thank you.