Morbid - Alvin and Judith Ann Neelley Part 2

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

On September 11, 1982, Ken Dooley, a Youth Development Center employee in Rome, Georgia, was shot at in his home by an unseen attacker. The following day, Dooley’s coworker, Linda Adair, was also attacked when someone threw a Molotov cocktail at her house in an attempt to kill her. Although neither Dooley nor Adair knew it at the time, these were the first attacks in the violent crime spree of Alvin and Judith Ann Neelley, a married couple whose brutality would shock in and around Georgia in the fall of 1982.Thank you the the incredible Dave White of Bring Me The Axe Podcast for Research Assistance.ReferencesAnniston Star. 1982. "Woman seeks juvenile status in slaying." Anniston Star , December 2: 28.Associated Press. 1982. "Probe covers two states in death, disappearance." Anniston Star, October 6: 10.Birmingham Post-Herald. 1982. "Jury indicts Mrs. Neelley on capital murder." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 29: 2.—. 1982. "Neelley's wife sits while he talks." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 22: 2.—. 1982. "Suspect in canyon deaths gives details of 7 more slayings." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 22: 1.—. 1982. "Woman killed 2, authorities charge." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 16: 1.Columbus Enquirer. 1982. "13-year-old found dead." Columbus Enquirer, October 1: 7.—. 1983. "Neelley jury suggests life without parole." Columbus Enquirer, March 23: 1.Cook, Thomas H. 1990. Early Graves: The Shocking True-Crime Story of the Yongest Woman Ever Sentenced to Death Row. Boston, MA: E.P. Dutton.Dunnavant, Bob. 1983. "Jury hears 'robot' defense." Birmingham Post-Herald, March 10: 1.Judith Ann Neelley v. State of Alabama. 1985. 494 So. 2d 669 (Court of Criminal Appeals of Alabama, March 12).Morning Press. 1983. "Neelley to get death penalty." Morning Press, April 19: 1.Neelley vs. Alabama. 1989. 88-5806 (United States Supreme Court, January 9).Thompson, Tracy. 1982. "Luck, guesswork led to suspects." Atlanta Constitution, October 16: 23. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. It is morbid. Whenever you get to say like, and this is morbid, do you immediately hear the intro song in your head? Yes. Me too. Do do do do.

Yeah, immediately. So I always take a beat. Yeah. To let it. I'm like, let me let it kick in. Let me introduce my beat. What's up, guys? Hello, everybody.

We're here. It's cold. It's slushy out. I haven't seen the sun in days. Yeah, we haven't had sun for a while. Mercury is in retrograde. I'm fine without sun, but I know it affects you. Yeah, I don't like, I mean, I like the sun.

I don't like being hot, but I need the happiness that the sun provides. See, I could live in, like, a place where it was just, like, cloudy all the time. It's funny, because I have said that about myself in the past. And then the more and more I think about it. And for some reason, the older I get, I'm like, no, I need it. like I need a little happy day. I need the vitamin D. But I don't like when there's too many sunny days in a row either. Yeah. You need that gloomy day in there. Yeah. I'm pretty specific about my weather choices. Not going to lie. Cloudy with a chance of meatballs. I think there was one thing

that Ash wanted to get out of the way right away because let me tell you. All right. I didn't know if I was going to do my thing first or if you were going to do yours. You got it. You got to get this out of there because I need I need closure on this. Well, so here's. So here's. the thing. I either fucked up or I am fucked up because so here's the two options. I don't know if I had a fever dream about this email and it does not exist at all or if I, if the email does exist and I read it and just lost it because somebody sent us an email and they basically said like whenever I listen to your paranormal episodes like my my technology will like glitch out and like it never works for me and it leaves me feeling like super like spooked and like I don't like it.

And then they went on to say that in our, I don't know if they're like a medium or something, they said in your pod lab or wherever you record on the right side of the room, is there like a drawer or a cabinet because there's something in there that wants to get out. And I need to know what the fuck that means? Because I'm looking next to me and there's a big old cabinet with several drawers. Yeah. And this place is old as fuck. And I'm like, huh? Yeah. So who wants to get out? We were, we came up to record yesterday. And I was like, oh my God, did you see that email? That blah, blah, blah. And she was like, Elena was like, no. I was like, bring that up immediately. And I was like, oh, hang on. Like, let me find it. And I swear I took a screenshot of it. But it was not in my screenshoted folder or anywhere in my phone. And it's nowhere. And I can't find the email anywhere. So if you sent the email, would you mind

resending it, like forwarding it, and then if you don't exist? Could you elaborate a little on the identity of the, of the person or thing that would like to get out of my cabinet that's next to me? Because I'm here to help. Yeah. I'm here to, I want to liberate whoever it is from these cabinets, because that sounds like it's stuck, unless they should stay in there. I don't know about that. Like if they're like trapped in there and they're like a good thing, like, sure. Yeah. But like, I just need to know more. I just want some more information. I need some more context is what I need. I just need some more. Hopefully that was a real, a real email because otherwise, I'm a little concerned about my psyche. Yeah. Otherwise, we're going to have a chat. Otherwise,

I may have hallucinated. I was like, you better get that person to send that again. I need to read this. I need to know. I would say I spent at least like 25 to 30 minutes. Oh, easy. We were like 40 minutes deep in that. I was like typing in different things to Gmail to like highlight the email. No. Right side. Demon and drawer. I don't look at me. Spooky. But yeah, so reset that if you did send that. Thank you. Hello. And then I think the only other thing that was like really just wearing on my mind for this and that I have to talk about was the fucking Marilyn Manson thing. Yeah. Okay. I was a big Marilyn Manson fan. You always.

I always liked his music. I always liked that he was weird. I always liked the like shock rocker thing. Obviously, he said a lot of problematic things in the past. But, you know, a lot of them I just didn't know about either. Because I don't follow like interviews from him or anything. I didn't know about that. So I didn't know any of those. But the shit that's coming out now and these women who are coming forward with their stories, like horrifying. Absolutely. And it's like when you were like a fan of his, it's so you feel so betrayed. Because you're like, how dare you be this evil son of a bitch and victimize women? And then, like, portray yourself as this like solidarity with like weirdos. You know what I mean?

Like, you're not a fucking, you're just evil. You're giving weirdos a bad name. And what bums me out the most is that everything is focusing now on like, well, he's weird. And he has a weird aesthetic. And so, of course he's a fucked up person. And it's like, no, he's just a fucked up person. Can we all just focus on the fact that he's an evil son of a bitch? Well, because here's the thing.

Ryan Warner is an evil son of a bitch. Yes. And he, and Marilyn Manson is an evil son of a bitch. But it's like, don't focus on his aesthetic. The aesthetic has nothing to do with him being an evil son of a bitch. Because the thing is he could be wearing a suit and like going to work as a doctor every day and still be going home and doing the same exact thing. Because that happens. It has nothing to do with like him wearing makeup and.

saying like creepy shit. I feel like focusing on that in a lot of these articles I'm reading is taking away from the reality of him just being at his core a fucked up individual. And it's like just let's focus on the demon that is him. Right. Not what he, you know, what paintings he had in his house. Like let's not talk about that. I don't give a shit what he had in his house.

I care that he abused, assaulted. Right. And manipulated and fucked with countless innocent women. young women, very young women. Yeah, I just, and it's really shitty too because it's like, there's plenty of weirdos in the world, like all of you guys listening right now. Yeah. And that like probably have some of like the weird shit that Marilyn Manson has in his house, like quote unquote weird shit. And they're like, oh, like I walked by this thing in his house, like should have known then. And it's like, okay. No, that's not it. Don't focus on that.

We should have known when he like said some of the things that he did. And it's like he's evil. Like talk about what he did and what he said and what the things he, you know, like the, the, horrible pain he inflicted on people. Let's not just, I just wish it would just, they would take that part out. Talk about the crimes he committed and not the, his interests. And it happens because like, we'll read crime stories on here where it's like, and he had a satanic Bible in his room. You know what I mean? And like, you have to mention it. So I understand why it's being in these articles, but I feel like it's being focused too hard on. Right. You know, as instead of being like, and of course he has this like aesthetic that is pretty dark. Right. It's not like, it should be a secondary thing.

to the crimes he has committed, but I feel like it's the first thing they're putting in these things. And I'm like, no, no, make it the background. I agree. Like, add that into it. Don't make it the first thing. I know. But it's just sucks. It sucks when you find out people that, you know, that you liked their music or you liked their art or whatever.

It's like, it sucks when you find out that they're just a shitty person. When you find out they're a legitimate evil, evil person, like that's. I find out that you could cover them on the podcast where we cover criminals. That's when it gets to be a real bummer. So I just wanted to put it out because I'm sure a lot, I mean, I'm sure a lot of you were fans at one point or another because he, you know, we're all on this together. And even if you weren't, it's like, it's shocking. So it's just like, and then I love Dita Von T's.

I just want to put that out there. I mean, she said luckily nothing happened to her, right? She did. She said that was not her experience, that they ended their relationship because of infidelity and his drug abuse. But I figured I'd end that on high note where, can we all agree that Deidvontees is like a knockout and like a wonderful human? Yeah.

Yeah, I think we can. Let's do that. Let's do that. You know what's weird too, not weird, but like just kind of strange timing is that this whole case that I'm doing today is like somewhat reminiscent of people coming forward like years later. It kind of worked out. It does kind of like go on the same wavelength.

It does. So guys, this month, we're. We are doing, the patrons know all about this. We're doing Patreon picks. So for the month of February, we put up a poll on the Patreon and everybody got to pick my cases and Elena's cases for the entire month of February. Yeah, these are fully Patreon picked. Like, we literally were like, say your cases that you want for February.

And then we narrowed them down. And it took a long time. It did take a very long time. Because you guys gave great suggestions. We're going to cover everything. Well, because that's the thing. Because people are like, oh, my God, no, like it wasn't the one I wanted. And I'm like, don't worry.

we're going to end up covering that too. I trust me, trust me, trust me. Because I had pro, like, when one would be picked, I'm like, I do want to cover that, but I also want to cover that other one. I know it's hard. We will. We will definitely cover them. You guys gave us great, great suggestions.

It must have been hard for you to hand over that control as a Capricorn. I hated it. I hated every second of it, but you guys did great. So you made it easier for me. I love it. I know. I want to be honest with you and tell you it was really hard not to just like sneak in a case that you didn't say that I just wanted to cover.

And like, I hoped that you would vote. for, but I didn't do that. No, and in the end, it was like there was so many to choose from. Yeah, and it worked out great. So today we are going to talk about a girl named Emily Morris. So thanks to the patrons for picking this. Yes. And before we start, I just want to give a little bit of a trigger warning. This involves sexual abuse. This involves like abuse between a teacher and a student and a coach and a student. grooming behavior. Grooming. So if that's not for you, if that's not something you want to listen to, then this is not the episode for you. Yeah. So Emily Allison Morris was born on September 22nd, 1979 in St. Louis, Missouri, which is funny,

because I think I had like a St. Louis accent like a minute ago when we were talking. Yeah. Now she was born to her parents, Richard and Joan Morris, and she was their first daughter. She's the older sister to Andrea. Which I love saying it like that. When I was researching, I thought it was Andrea and I was like, still love that. Still love that. But Andrea.

A documentary, and they were like, Andrea. Love that. And I was like, oh, fancy. Now, growing up, Emily's parents said that she was, quote, funny, fast, smart, and accomplished. Now, Joan told Lonnie Coombs, who was a formal criminal prosecutor, that Emily walked at just 10 months old. And she said, quote, children are supposed to crawl first. She had no interest in that.

That reminded me of all of your children. I was just going to say. It's literally the only reason I put that in there. It's both wonderful and terrifying all at the same time. But I also think it says a lot about, like, who your kid is going to be. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, they're just like, yeah, I'm just going to go straight for this.

They're very, like, steadfast. Emily's parents also went on to say that she was a super athletic girl, a bit of a tomboy. And she didn't always feel like she fit in. I think probably because she was like a little bit of a tomboy, but that she had this, like, can-do attitude. And she was never afraid to fail. Like, she always wanted to go for it. And if she was not the best at it, she was like, I'm going to go get him next time.

I'll dust myself off and try again. And I just have to say that her parents look like the sweetest couple I've ever seen. I know they do. They're also just like very like normal people. Yeah. Just like you love them. Yeah. So before she started high school, Emily told her mom that she was going to go out for the cross country team. Now she was already like a really good diver. Like there's videos of her doing different dives that I could never do. Oh, no. But so the fact that she wanted to try a new sport like with high school starting wasn't out of character. So her mom was like, cool. That's great. Now, Emily's math teacher from middle school, Jim Wilder, was allegedly the one to suggest that she should go out for the track team, which was kind of weird because he wasn't even the track coach yet. But okay. Just a math teacher. Just a math teacher. Emily was a super talented runner, like right off the bat. And she quickly became the number one runner on the girls team. Wow, get it. Yeah, she was really getting it. Now, there was a woman coach at first named Nancy. And she was Emily's coach for the first two years that she was on the team. But then, Nancy left to take a different job. And Jim Wilder, Emily's old teacher, took over both teams, the girls' team and the boys' team. Okay. So it kind of seemed like it just merged to like a co-ed team. Yeah, for sure.

Which, why the fuck isn't it? I know. Why aren't, like, I feel like all teams should just be men and women. Like, I don't get it. It would make sense to me. But why can't we all just be together? So many thoughts on that. They do.

But that's for a different time. Exactly. Now, Emily's mom said that she remembered Emily talking. quite a bit about Jim Wilder. And she kind of was like, oh, you know, I think she has a crush on him and whatever. Yeah. And he was 29, so he's like this young teacher. Oh, so he's a young teacher. We all had a crush on a teacher at some point. Oh, hell yeah. I had a crush on like all the teachers. So I had a crush on my English teacher. Didn't everybody have a crush on your English teacher? I did. This is actually funny because I had a crush on my math teacher. There you go. I remember one time he like came to a softball game and I was

like, oh, I'm going to like really rip one into the field. He'll really care about it. And he definitely didn't because he was a good teacher. Because he was a good man. That's weird to think about now. Yeah. So Jim, like I said, 29, he was a married man. And I believe he had his first child at this point. So Joan made sure to tell Emily, like, you act accordingly around that married older teacher man.

Because she was like, I don't want anybody making up rumors. Like, we don't need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yikes. So when he took over both track teams, Emily would go for advice, like, go to him for advice about, you know, different high school. things like, boy, she was dating and probably running tips, obviously. And, you know, he would offer his advice and it was all well and fine. But then one day, things went past the point of advice and crossed

every single line that is put in the sand for teachers and students' relationships. I hate that a lot. I was talking with my hands. I slammed them. So, apparently, she was, Emily was telling her coach about a guy that she liked and how they were going to play, they were either going to play the game, or they had played the game chicken. Now, there's a lot of different chicken games because my first thought was the one in the pool. That's literally what I was thinking. So I never heard this specific game be called chicken, but I guess it is. They were talking about the chicken where like a guy will put his hand on your knee and like move his hand up. Oh, X-rated chicken. I didn't know that was a thing. Adult chicken. Spicy chicken. I had no idea. A spicy chicken rap supreme. Whoa. So like

he keeps putting his hand up and up until you, I think you say chicken when you're like, don't touch. I hate me. This a lot. Yeah. Yep. Me too. I hate that.

That exists. Don't do that. I mean, don't do that. And yeah, no. So, Emily was telling her coach about this during a practice in the woods because, like, it's not super weird to have track practice in the woods for anybody that's not a runner. Because at first I was like, wait, what? Yeah, because they run through like paths and stuff.

Yeah, because then I thought about it. I had a lot of friends on the track team and they were. always in the woods. Yeah. So they were in the woods and he was probably like standing at a certain point and she ran by and was like, oh, like, let's chat. And then they got into this. So she's telling him about this. Wow. And he suggests that they play. Oh. Nope. Nope. Now, Emily later told the police that Jim put his hand on her knee and kept going until his hand was over her groin area and over her jeans, just to be specific. Now, right as his hand landed there, another teammate ran by. So he like moved his hand super quickly. But that same day, he was supposed to drive Emily home from school.

And her mom had arranged this. I don't know if it was just like, just, I don't know, it was the 90s. Yeah. So she arranged that the coach gave her a ride home. I feel like that happened a lot. I'm sure. And when they got home, her parents and her sister weren't home. So he went inside with her. Uh-oh. And when they got inside, she was sitting on the ottoman in the living room. And Jim basically just took off her pants and started performing oral sex on her, and she said that she told him to stop, and he did stop, and then he left. How old is she? 16. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Now, that was the first time. I really hate this. Yeah, this is a rough one. Now, that was the first time, but this abuse would go on for years. And it's funny that you just asked that, because I was like, I say abuse because he is 29, married with children, and this girl is 16 years old. 16 year old.

So it's like even, because I want to clarify something, even if people were like, well, she like, she was a willing participant, no, at 16, you're not a willing participant with a 29 year old man. You're just not. Yeah. So he spent time grooming her, obviously, because in her mind, I'm sure she knew it was wrong. And she said she was like, I knew that this was wrong. But he made me feel special.

And he made me feel like this was a valid consenting relationship. Now, experts on sexual abuse point out that sexual grooming will create a compliant victim. But at the end of the day, they are just that. They're a victim. Now, to further groom Emily and make her feel like she was super special to him, Jim would tell Emily about how, like, sexually frustrated he was. This is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard. Yeah, it's really fucked up and it's about to get more fucked up.

Because the reason he was so sexually frustrated is because his wife was pregnant. Yeah, I knew. I was literally just going to say she's pregnant or she just had a baby. That's one of the other. Well, both because they had two kids. So he has a young kid and now his wife is pregnant. Oh my God. Fuck this guy.

Poor him, he's so sexually frustrated. Oh, my God. Like, what? I hate him. How are you frustrated when you're about to have a baby? I don't get it. I hate him so much. Yeah.

So it's so, like, makes me angry. So he would have her meet him in the wrestling room to perform oral sex on each other. And if they heard someone. coming, he would have Emily hide in this box of uniforms until he was sure that the person had passed. Now, sometimes they would meet in the middle of like practices of track meets and stuff like that. Like one time they were found in the middle of a sexual act in a men's bathroom in a park where like this track meet was going on. Somebody just walked in on them. Another time, this one is crazy and weird. The movie, the team was going to see the movie seven, which I feel like

we've been talking a lot about. Yeah, weird, and weird movie to go see as a team. That's the other thing. I was like, like, team bonding. Motivation? I don't know. Like, what's in the box? Run, run, run, okay. So while they were out of town for a meet, so it was like a team building exercise while watching a serial killer murder. Yeah, I can't even. Not documentary movie. A documentary, Jesus. Imagine. Now, Emily told the police later that while they were at the movie theater, this is really gross. They were sitting next to each other and she was masturbating Jim while he was sitting next to another coach. So I'm like, the other, there's no way the other coach didn't notice that. No,

there's absolutely no way. Which is terrible. Yeah. And it's like obviously people knew that this was going on. Yeah. And we're going to get into that in like a second because my next note is the more and more that this like, I mean, I don't really know another word to use other than like relationship because. Yeah, because it was some form of a relationship with her. Yeah, I mean, relationships can be fucked up. Yeah. So the more and more this relationship progressed, the more people were catching on to things. Now, parents in the town knew because their kids are coming home telling them about it. Other coaches and faculty allegedly knew.

And Emily's friends knew what was going on. Oh, my God, and her parents. Now, can you imagine? So this is crazy because the rumors were flying around everywhere and eventually they made their way back to the principal of the school. So it's funny that you said her parents. Uh-oh. Now, when the principal heard, he called. Emily in and she obviously denied everything. So then he calls Jim in. Obviously Jim denies

everything because he doesn't want to lose his entire job. Yeah. So then they call Emily's parents. Now they call her, the principal calls the parents and says like Emily has been accused of having a relationship with a teacher. Not the other way around. Oh, okay. Like Emily has been confused of this. Right. The 16 year olds has been accused of this, not the 30 year old. Like, cool. Not this, Not the coach has had, is accused of having a relationship with your underage child. And not even like the coach has been accused of sexually assaulting or becoming inappropriate with your daughter. They're like saying like accused of an affair, basically. Wow. So it's like, okay. Okay, school. So they, so yeah, they go in and they're like, uh, what? So Emily wouldn't open up to them because.

Yeah. Obviously. She's being accused now. She's the bad guy. Right. So the principal and the parents just kind of chalked it up to the. rumors, like to rumors of jealous teammates. Because like I said, she's one of the most talented runners on the team. It's like she has all this stuff going for her. Like she was, one time, she was like the only girl to qualify for a really big race that they were going to do. The only girl on the team with like all these other guy runners. So they were like, maybe there's a girl on the team that also has a crush on this guy and she's like making shit up. Oh yeah. You know teenagers. Like she's getting like preferential treatment. Right. Right. So the school, even

though, like, this was all unfounded, they're supposed to report any kind of incident like this to CPS. Yeah, of course. CPS is supposed to have, like, the right tools and everything to investigate. Even, yeah, like, it's not up to a principle to decide if this is, if this is rumor or fact. Like, it's up to, like, actual investigators. And it's like, I know this is shocking, but when you bring two people in and say, like, hey, 16 year old and 30 year old, are you guys having an affair? They're probably going to say no. Nine times out of 10. I feel like they're going to be like, no. Yeah. And they might be lying. Right. So like, you might want to call in reinforcements to check.

And like, not to mention, when you're a teacher or a principal or any kind of faculty member in a school, you're a mandated reporter. Exactly. So like you're breaking the law either way. There's that. That's a big deal. There's always that. Yeah.

Now, the older Emily got, the more abusive things became. Emily's mood started to change completely. Like her friends were like she got super distant. Her family was like, she was just moody and upset all the time. her little sister, Andrea, said, she was like, I remember her crying, like, every day before school and being like, holy shit, like, I don't want to go to high school if that's what it is. She literally, like... She just thought that was school.

She thought that was high school. Now, she also, Emily became super self-conscious about herself. And she was like a pretty, like, she was like an athletically built girl. Like, there was nothing for her to be self-conscious about. Oh, of course not. But the reason why she was so self-conscious is because of the things that her coach and this man who's abusing her was saying to her because there's a picture of her sitting in her track uniform and her legs are like tucked underneath her to the side. So like her leg is kind of pressed into the

concrete or the pavement a little bit. And he looked at the picture and looked at her and was like, you should get liposection. And she wrote on the back of a picture. Like there's like all these scrapbook memories and stuff that her mom was showing. She wrote on the back of the picture like Coach Wilder told me to get liposection after seeing this. What the fuck? With like a sad face, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So soon after that, she developed an eating disorder, bulimia. So now he's like negging her. Mm-hmm. Wow. He's an evil monster. And I have to wonder if it's because like the older she was getting, she was like,

this is fucked up and she kind of maybe tried to distance herself. So he's like, oh, like, fuck you. So he starts doing what he knows best. Right. Now her friend from high school, so I said she, she developed the eating disorder of bulimia. And her friend from high school remembered that at one point, she was only eating the whites of oranges. So the pulp. What? Yeah. The whites of, that's a thing that people do?

I've never heard of that before, but I don't. Wow. I don't know. That's shocking. Yeah, I can't imagine there's any nutritional value in that whatsoever. Wow. Also, I hate pulp so much. I do too.

I hate pulp. Makes me want a guy. It freaks me out in a big way. Yeah. Now, Joan is catching on to this. Joan is her mom. And she's trying to talk to Emily. they had like a close relationship and she's like, why aren't you? Like obviously something is going on.

It must be so hard. You won't open up to me. So can we try therapy? So she, I don't know if Emily like agreed or not, but she ended up at the therapist. And the therapist was like, yeah, I cannot crack her. Like she won't open up. Wow. So she just completely shut down. Yeah. And Joan's like, I don't know what to do. Yeah. What do you do? That's the thing. And so she also remembered how Emily was the only girl to qualify for that race that I mentioned before. And Emily was so excited when this happened, because obviously that's a big achievement in your track career. Now, when the day came to run the race, Emily got out of bed and was like, oh, I don't feel good. Like, I'm not going to go. And her mom was like, you're so excited.

Isn't this like a lifetime movie? It really is. And her mom was like, you're so excited to go. Like, you know, I think let's cheer you up. Let's bring you and see how you feel when we get there. Red flags. Trying to be a supportive mom, trying to just like, be like, you know, like you, this is a big deal. So she takes her to the race.

And Emily, the whole way there was like arguing being like, like, I don't feel like it. I don't want to. No, she ends up running in the race. But she didn't qualify to go on to the next bigger race. I don't know how track works. And later on, she told her mom that she lost the race on purpose because she didn't, the next race that they were going to have, she'd have to go out of town. And she didn't want to go out of town with her coach.

Because that's when a lot of the abuse would happen. Heartbreaking. So she literally, like, threw away the race because she was like, I don't want to be with, like, alone with him. Holy shit. Yeah. So it's really unclear when the sexual abuse ended with Jim, but it affected her for the rest of her life. I think that's why it's so unclear. But she and Jim also stayed in contact over the years. Like he would like check in on her. And again, experts on sexual abuse pointed out that this was just his way of keeping tabs on her, making her feel like they're still friends after everything that happened. And that's an important tactic because it's like if your friends with me. You're not going to report me. Well, that's, it's a total control thing. It's like, I'm still in control of this situation. And I have to maintain control or if they could go somewhere. You could turn on me. Yeah. Now, she graduated in 1997. And I believe in one article I read, the reason I didn't say like definitively is because it was only in one article. It said the

abuse lasted through that summer. Oh, okay. But again, it was only in one. So she graduated and then she went off to college. And she eventually did earn her bachelors of arts in English. but college was like really hard for her to get through. Her mom was like, it was a nightmare trying to get her through college. Wow. Yeah. So obviously she's trying to cope with what happened in high school. Yeah. So her friend Christine pointed out later, quote, when you're robbed of your innocence at a young age, it definitely plays a part in your bad behavior as an adult. Oh yeah. And that's pretty much exactly what happened over time with Emily. She started turning to alcohol more and more. Obviously, like, it's a coping mechanism. Then she eventually eventually got married. married, and she did end up marrying an older man. And her mom pointed out that, like, a lot of her relationships going forward were with people who were older than her, like a lot older. She was kind of stuck in that place. It's definitely a cycle. Now, when she married this guy, she had two children, but her past was always, like, around the corner affecting her. So it basically ruined her marriage. She lost custody of her kids. And she just, I mean, like, really

fell into being, like having, I just fixed. She fell into the trauma. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's a sad case. It is. It's like overwhelming. It is. Now, Andrea said of the abuse, quote, the problem is it sort of never stopped. That person was always an influence on her. It just seemed like it gnawed away at her, her entire life, until she decided to finally do something about it. Well, never being able to, like, rid yourself of him, like he's keeping tabs, so he's still maintaining. He's, keeping tabs. She's in the same area. She's around people that know him. It's like the scab. It's scabs over and then he is picking off the scab every time. It's like it just never has a chance to heal. Right. And I think whenever you're a victim of like sexual assault, like you blame yourself. Like that's a whole huge part of it.

Oh yeah. Which it's never your fault. It's like shame. Right. And that's how she was feeling. And embarrassment and all kinds of emotions. Right. Exactly. But in 2013, something happened that made Emily want to do something about it and come forward. So she was with her friend Christine Lieber, the woman I mentioned earlier, and another woman. And they were just like hanging outside together. Now, one of the woman's, the other woman's daughter, got home from school and, like, was clearly upset and wanted to talk to her mom about something. And so she said that she was upset about something that happened at soccer practice. And she told her mom, she felt uncomfortable with the way that Coach Wilder had been massaging her

leg. Oh, fuck this guy. Yep. Now, I can't even imagine, like, the alarm bells that sounds. sounded off in Emily's head. She must have wanted to scream. This is the same coach doing the exact same thing in the exact same school to these like young girls who were exactly like her.

Wow. How many years later? Wow. So, right then and there, Emily was like, fuck this. I'm going to the police with my story because I think, and like I think everybody else that knows this case saw that when she, like, she couldn't do anything about it because she was so stuck in her grief. But then when she saw that this could, like, was affecting her friend's children,

And like she has a daughter, they pointed out. It's like, this could happen to her kid too. Absolutely. So it's, that's when she was like, oh, fuck that. I'm doing something. Good. So she went to the police with her story and she was like, listen, this has been happening. I'm pretty sure it's still happening. Like, we need to do something about this. So she goes to the police and they, she still talks to Jim Wilder from time to time. So they're like, would you be willing to get him on the phone? Obviously try to start talking about what happened and get him to say. something while we're like wiring the phone conversation. And she's like, wiretapping. Wiretubbing. The wire. She's like, uh, hell yeah, I will. Like, let's do this. So she, I know. So she calls Jim and he's like, oh, yeah, like, I don't want, like, why don't we meet up and talk? Because he's, like, fully on to it. Oh, of course. And he's like, you know, I don't really, he at one point says, like, when he does meet up with her, like, you know, all these government people are like listening to

us, basically. Oh, yeah. All these government people. Oh, you know the government. So he's like, okay, let's meet up, which is like, you know that she could be also wearing a wire too, right? He's, he's dumb. Yeah. So she's like, yep, sure. So she goes to meet him in the parking lot of the St. Louis Galleria Mall. And she has the recorder hidden in her bra. And as she pulls into the parking lot, they have like the tape, obviously. And she says out loud, like, let's hope this goes well. So boy does it in the regards of him talking because they got so much stuff. And the way that she was able to get him there in the first place is that she was like, she was like, I'm having a hard time and I'm going to therapy. And my therapist suggested that I kind of revisit my past a little bit.

That was smart. It was. Yeah. And he's like, you know, I'm this great guy. So, I'm such a good guy. Let me help you revisit your past. I'm a real gentleman. I feel like somewhere he like does it. I mean, he obviously doesn't think what he's doing is wrong because he's like continuing to do it. And the way he talks about it, you're like, what? Like, we're going to get into some quotes. It's totally him convincing himself that he's valid. A hundred percent. Now the first thing that he asks when he gets in the car, he literally goes, are you wired? Like, joking?

But, like, obviously he's not joking. How do you keep your face from just being like, ugh? I would literally shit my pants, shit, shit my pants. Like, my face would drain of any color that I had. I am the worst liar on the face of the planet. I, like, have a different voice when I lie. You are a terrible liar. Like, I'd just, I'd be like, I should, no.

You'd be like, eh. Oh, yeah, no. Like, what? So she was super badass about it. And she, like, laughed it off and was like, oh, yeah, like, you know me. I'm wired. Always wired. Chilling in my wires.

Now, obviously, they just laugh it off. And by the end of the conversation, there was 87 minutes of everything recorded. So they have a shit ton. Because throughout the exchange, Jim makes multiple incriminating statements talking openly about their relationship. and how Emily was the persuasive one. Oh, yeah. Of course, the 16 year old.

He's like, you just turned me into this shy guy when I... You turned me into one. He's like, when I was around you, you were the persuasive one. And I was like, this shy guy. And he literally says it like that. And you're like, I want to punch you so hard in the Adams apple that you get knocked into next Thursday. And he said, this, I was watching the TV because this part is part of the documentary. I was literally about to like take my TV.

throw it out the window. He goes, you know, maybe none of this would have happened if your mom hadn't asked me to drive you home that day. I, like, that is unbelievably evil. Like, now you're putting in her head, like you think you're going to be able to put in her head. It's your mom's fault. Put you in the situation. And it never would have happened if she didn't put you in that situation. Like, fuck you, dude. And also, it would have, because before you drove her home that day, you were already inappropriately touching her. Of course. He was the evil monster. Why are you blaming her mom? Because it's just another way to torture her. Now it only gets, unfortunately, it only gets worse. He goes, this is ridiculous. He goes, this kind of stuff if we were the same age would be no problem.

Yes. Yeah, that's kind of the crux of the issue, buddy. That's actually the entire point of why she's sitting in a car wired with you right now. Yeah. And why she's telling you that she's in therapy. Like, No. What? And also, maybe it would have been an issue, too, because you were married with a child, and she's obviously feeling extreme shame for multiple layers of this whole thing. Yeah, this, this one. Like, you're an asshole no matter what age she was. You're just a dick. And he also goes on to say, we did something that wasn't right according to our laws these days. I also like that he's like these days. I'm like, it's been a while that we aren't allowed to like do things like that. He's one of those guys it's like we should stone women when they laugh too loud.

We should go back to the good old days. Burn them at the stake if they make a potion. He's one of those good old days, guys. And then he goes and says, but you know I'm not a creeper. Oh, no. I'd be like, actually, that's all I know about you. I'd be like the fact that you just said creeper makes you a creeper. I know, I know, right?

A like grown-ass man. It's like, no, I actually know the exact opposite of that. I know that that's exactly what you are. I know not of what you speak. So the police, they find. felt like they got what they needed. And James, Jim Wilder, was arrested and charged with six counts of statutory. Is I how you say it? Statutory. It's hard to say. Sodomy. And I know it's really yucky. And for a second, I was like, oh, no, like that also happened. But Lonnie Coombs pointed out that under Missouri law, sodomy is an oral sex. Exactly. Or more, more, more. Yeah. So each charge would carry seven years in prison if he were convicted. And it was looking pretty promising. So Emily, Emily,

coming out with her story was met with obviously two very different reactions. Always. A lot of people in the area didn't believe her and just painted her as like this promiscuous girl looking for attention. Of course. Which is bullshit. On the other hand, though, she was not the only one who came forward. And when they looked a little deeper into a gym's past there, a very similar account came

to light. Yeah, because he's a fucking monster. And he's a monster who had actually been arrested for basically the exact same thing in 2008. Are you fucking kidding me? Because a 15-year-old girl named him as the man who had been abusing her since eighth grade, which eighth grade is when Emily met him. So it's like, now she said everything started with him massaging her leg and then I don't even want to get into it again, basically just doing the same thing that he did to Emily. And she was able to give investigators specific details about his marriage, about his relationship with his wife, and also what his

groin area looked like. Wow. So clearly she knew what was up. Yeah. And there's actually, I say there's a good oxygen article that I'm going to link. And also there's a good BuzzFeed article that I'm going to link that talks more about that girl's account. Account, exactly. But basically the things that she said were just eerily similar to what happened to Emily, including specific places in the high school where things happened. Basically, like he took her into the wrestling office and things went down, but like the same thing.

but like the same place. Yeah. He has a pattern. He does. And I'm just going to skip over a little bit of the abuse because this is like really abuse heavy. Yeah. If you want to look more into it yourself, I'll link those articles so you can. Yeah.

And it's all like repetitive at that point. Exactly. And it's, you know. But she also mentioned that the two of them exchanged phone numbers and that they would call each other pretty often. And when he was asked about this, he was like, no, like that's not true. What he didn't realize is that phone records are a thing. Oh, those.

Yeah. Yeah. And you can get a warrant for those. and they did. Yep. And it was determined to be a lie. Survey says that's a lie because he had called her multiple times on multiple days. I love that he just thinks he's going to get away with all this.

Nah, I didn't do it. I never called her. No, I didn't do that. Have you watched a crime show ever? Yeah, it's like, you know they can check up on that. Like, you're thinking that the government is watching you, but you don't think the police and- investigating you aren't going to, okay.

Cool, cool. Awesome. Now, this girl's grandparents, who she lived with, had actually written an email to all of her teachers asking if anything was going on at school because of the way that she had been acting at home, basically similar to the way that Emily was acting when she was being abused, irritable, sad, acting out. Now, this girl had spoken to a teacher about what she should do if something like this were happening to her. The teacher never reported the incident. She emailed another teacher and was like, oh, what should I do about this? And this is all the

same school, right? What the fuck is wrong with this school? Oh, yeah. It's, oh, wait until we get to the end. You're going to like rip your microphone off of everything and throw it out the window. Lord. Because this teacher as this girl is walking away because she came with a friend to talk to the teacher about it because like you know how that goes. Yeah. And she's walking away with her friend. And she looks, she's like kind of talking to her friend and the teacher can't hear everything. But then she hears her say to her friend, I told him to get off of me and he told me this is the way it's done. What the fuck? And you still didn't report. That? How? That is shameful. You're a band-dated reporter. These teachers and this principle, that's shameful.

There's a lot of shameful things in this entire story because the other thing is, like, obviously, he was arrested for this, so they're doing an investigation. And teachers and students are pointing out that this girl was known to be very dramatic. And she was, she lied pretty often. And she was a young troubled girl, which like, hi, that's exactly why he went after her. most likely because he knew no one was going to believe her. Like, have you ever heard of victim profiling? Oh, they. And because of that, because everybody was like, I don't know, she's kind of a liar, the case was dropped due to a, quote, lack of credible evidence that any sexual contact had taken place. Wow. Yeah. So that's a fail on the system. Cool. Oh, and he's arrested for this. I've said that 84 times for a reason. He got arrested for like sexual assault against a student. He got arrested for like, sexual assault against a student. And when the case was dropped, the man went back to teaching at the same exact school. Okay. So, uh, he went again, again for the people in the back. What's the thought process here,

school? He went back to teaching at the same school. No. What? No. What? That doesn't register. What? So many brains had to go into that decision. And that's really, really concerning. So many Lack of, what do you always say? Lack of firing neurons in there. That's a neuron graveyard. To say the least. Holy shit. Now, Emily obviously hoped that this time would be different because she literally had

the guy confessing to this shit on tape. And everybody, once she went to the police and they started working on things, everyone around her saw a change in her. She was seeing her kids a lot more. She had gotten a new job. She was drinking a lot less. And I actually mentioned earlier, there's a really good BuzzFeed article. It's a BuzzFeed Investigates article written by Jessica Testa and the title being the same as the oxygen documentary.

It's the case died with her. Again, I'll link it in the show notes. But Jessica spoke with the family and Emily's mother. And Emily's mother, Joan, told her that while Emily was struggling with her drinking, Joan decided that she would keep a monthly calendar. And like, she would mark Emily's good days with green ink and Emily's bad days with red ink. And she said throughout 2014, like after she went to the police, all of her, like most of the days in 2014 were marked with good green days. Oh my goodness. That hurts my soul. Yeah, like really, it really fucked me up. Now, I always mention, like, those little sentimental things that the family does, because I feel like it helps tell the story better, but I always

feel bad because, like, those sentimental things usually lead into the really bad thing that's coming. And here we are. Because in the beginning of November 2014, nobody could get in touch with Emily. Her family, especially her dad, kept calling her, but getting no answer. Now, her dad knew that obviously she had struggled with her alcoholism. But for some reason, he was like, I just felt differently about this. Like, I had a different feeling. It's everybody, everybody feels that way. And when something's going on with their family like this. So after leaving her a couple messages, he stopped by our house on November 4th just to like drop some things off for her, which I was like, oh my God. But as soon as he walked in the door, he was like, something just felt off about this

entire scene. So he walked to Emily's bedroom. And unfortunately, he found her face down on the floor. her head was stuck in a large trash can that was all the way down to her shoulders. Her bottom was, like bottom half was tucked into a big white blanket. And he, he didn't think she was dead right away. He was like, Emily, like, why are you laying on the floor? Like what? Yeah. And so he moved the trash can off of her. And when he did, he realized that there was like vomit all inside the lining and all around her face and in her hair. And when he touched her, she was cold. So he called Joan, her mom, who came right away and the police were called immediately too and this is going to break your heart. When Joan got there, she said, quote, I sat down next to her crying and playing with her hair

because Emily loved having you play with her hair. That was her favorite thing of all. Oh, okay. Yeah, like just ruin me. Literally shatter my insides. Yeah. Now, Richard started cleaning up the apartment and Joan was like, it was because he didn't want anyone to think that she was a slob because when he walked in, the place was like a mess. And I feel like that's such like a parent thing. I literally, I was like these, these are two. Those are parents. Very parent things, like touching her and playing with her hair and cleaning the apartment.

But the police arrived and they weren't super stoked that like the body and the scene had been fucked with. It's very bad. But it comes from a place of love. Of not wanting to embarrass your, like, her lose more of her dignity than she already has. Exactly. So the police gave the family a little bit of grief for doing what they did.

Which I can understand. I could see both sides of that. That's exactly what I wrote down. I said, I think a lot of parents would do the same thing. And I think a lot of investigators would feel the same way about it. For sure. But it's like, I mean, I don't speak from experience, but I don't think the first thing that you think when you find your daughter dead is to preserve the crime scene. No, of course not.

So I get it. Yeah. Now, in Emily's bedroom, there were some snacks laying near where she was found, like on the floor around her. And her phone was also on the floor, like, next to her. And her parents said that that was her usual position when she was detoxing because, like, she would lay on the floor with her phone and some snacks next to her because she was nauseous. So laying on the floor, like, made her feel better. And the snacks would, like, sometimes snacks help nausea.

Like settle her stomach. Yeah. So it was just like her kind of routine when she was going through this. Woof. So the problem that they, like, immediately saw, they were like, okay, there's an empty bottle of vodka in the room. So they kind of immediately jumped to the conclusion and they wondered, like, was she, did she just accidentally drink herself to death?

Yeah. Which is sad. Yeah. But not crazy to assume based on her history. For sure. But there's some weird shit when you look further into it. Because the weird shit is, after her autopsy was done, her blood alcohol content came out to be just under 0.05.

I think the exact number was 0.048. Okay. And like we know, 0.08 is the legal drinking. limit. So she's like less than half of that. Yeah. Now, and it would be the equivalent of like two drinks. Or she's like a little more over half than that. Yeah, that's what, yeah, I'm not going to fractions. So it's like, did somebody do this to her? Was she murdered? Like, yeah, it's just, it's strange. It's a really weird. And immediately people are like, I don't know, like, with everything going on and then this happens. But you just, you think about like the position. It's like, was she just, you know, not like totally

with it? Right. tripped, fell. Yeah, or like even... Or while she was vomiting into a waistbasket. Well, that's what I thought of. I was like, maybe what happened was that she was in bed, like, wrapped... Because when I'm in bed, I'm, like, wrapped up in the blanket. And then if you get sick, you kind of lean over.

Maybe she was so, like, feeling so sick that she fell. Yeah. And that it's not crazy that her phone, like, my phone is always on the floor in the morning. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or that she was, like, on the floor already in that detox position that they said they knew so well from her.

Uh-huh. And that she was wrapped in that blanket on the floor. went to get sick into that basket. She fell over and maybe wedged herself a little bit because she panicked perhaps. Yeah. And then she's stuck in there. Yeah. I mean, there's a plastic lining.

You're vomiting. An aspiration can happen. I feel like any number of bad things could happen. Absolutely. The only, because were her arms, like, wrapped in the blanket? Is that what? No, I'm not totally positive. They said that her bottom half was wrapped in the blanket.

And I'm pretty sure her arms were just by her side. Oh, okay. But the weird thing is that it was like, you know those white kitchen bins that are like, that's what I was picturing. It's like your recycling bin actually. Yeah, like a tall one. Tall. Yeah.

So it's like she was way in the bottom. Like even if it would be hard to wedge yourself in there. Yeah. Especially with your hands by your side. Because you would stop yourself, you feel. Right. Unless she passed out. Well, yeah.

And the other thing was she. There's a lot of variables here. Her mom had said that she had had her, she had seen her have seizures before. So maybe she had a seizure and do you pass out after a seizure? Like is that something? I'm sure you can. I think so many different things can happen. Right.

During and after a seizure. So that's entirely possible. Right. So maybe she had a seizure and passed out like and threw up maybe while she was having a seizure and then passed out and because there wasn't enough air. And she could have aspirated on the, right. Because she's laying down. Right.

Exactly. She's in a weird position. Yeah. I mean, any number of things could have happened. No matter what, that's a nightmare situation. Oh, it's a gnarly, gnarly death. So it's weird. And it's weird because she just came forward about this huge thing that happened after like 15 years of silence. And it looked like it was going forward. It looked like she was supposed to give a deposition the next week. That's odd timing. That's odd timing. The other strange things were that the back door to her apartment, which was basic, it's like my apartment, like with the sliding door. I'm glad that I just told you all that I have that. It's always locked and there's like a little thing wedged. But hers was not locked. It was unlocked, which, yes.

And it was slightly open. Oh. Yeah, which that's weird. That is strange. Now, her cell, oh, this is the other weird thing. I was like giving Elena a little bit of information about this before we started and I didn't tell you this part. This part's weird.

Her cell phone always had the same password and like her sister knew it. But her cell phone wasn't unlocking with that password. with that password. And her sister was like, she always had the same password. She was never secretive about her phone. Yeah, and there's really no reason to change that phone password. No. Unless it was compromised or someone else did it. Exactly. So her sister was like, that just has always sat with me and I've always thought that was weird. Yeah, that's strange. And the last thing that they pointed out was that she was super, super claustrophobic and she would have never like stuck her head that far into a trash can. Like to be sick. on purpose. Yeah. It was just super weird. Now, they did investigate her death, but the death investigation

was closed after less than two months. And the official report states that the manner of death cannot be determined, which that's weird. The manner of death cannot be determined. But the cause of death was due to, quote, asphyxiation due to a trash can lined with a plastic bag over her head. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, the plastic lining, I think, played a huge deal in that. She was definitely like she probably like literally inhaled that. Yeah. So. But then the manner is how she got in there.

Right. The first place. Because it almost reminds me of, um, the Phoebe handstruck case. How did she get in the trash, in the trash chute? Or like Kendrick Johnson. Yes. Like how did he? Yeah.

These are all very like, what? How did you end up there? And sure it's possible when you look into. For sure. But it's also possible. You can see many angles of all of these cases and it's like, but it's not cut and dry. No. It's like this one, this one, it's like, accident seems most likely in my opinion, but I wasn't at the crime scene.

So I can't tell you that like, and there are things that are pointing in other ways, weird that the deposition was happening the next week and that she had just come forward and wired for this whole thing, which can make things scary. Absolutely. But then it's like, then you flip that around. Was she much more stressed out because she knew she had a deposition coming up? Was she self-medicating because of that stress and anxiety and terror that she was probably feeling? The officer, the detective that was like dealing with this case, when she initially came forward, he was like, I could tell that she had been drinking. And he was like, but I still believed her account 100%. I think that like you said, she was just self-medicating. Yeah, she was really, really stressed and

anxious. And probably that's the only way she had taught herself to soothe her nerves. And seems to me if you were going to be deposed the next week that that would trigger a lot of emotions and stress and nerves. And you're, I mean, when you come forward about trauma, you start to relive that part of your life. So I don't, it doesn't, it wouldn't shock me that she had like a relapse of, no, of having like a binge moment. And on the same, on the same thing, it wouldn't shock me if that happened. And also, I really wouldn't be shocked if maybe she was murdered. If it came out that somebody else did this, I wouldn't be like, oh my goodness. I'd be like, all right. Yeah, we got a answer. a lot of sense. Right. It's accident and somebody else doing it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, you can see it both ways. Yes. Well, Emily's family and friends do think that there is a very strong possibility that she was murdered. And this is a little crazy because they were like, it didn't necessarily have to be Jim. Like, we're not saying that he did it. No. Because she had told her friends and family that Jim was surrounded by people that she was afraid of. And there were a lot of people in town who knew about the situation.

and did not stand on her side. There was a lot of people that were very loyal to Jim. And think, you're ruining a good man. Oh, and that's exactly what they were saying. Like, this is, every article, like, described him as a golden boy. Oh, yeah. They always do. Always.

And I'm like, that's nice. It's like, Brock Turner or whatever the fuck his name is when they're like, he had such a promising future. And now it's ruined because he's a rapist. And it's like, oh. Can we reword that and say, this fucking idiot, like, took away his own future? he robbed himself of his future. Can we say that he took away someone else's future? Yeah, how about we don't even think about his future at all because he didn't? We just talk about his present, which is he's a dick. Yeah. Like, that's how that should go. And now this young girl has to figure out the rest of her life. Why don't we think about her future? Exactly. So, so they, yeah, so Jim is surrounded by like people who are sketchy. Obviously, he's a sketchball. But there's more sketchy people involved. Because around July, Emily was involved with a police officer. Now,

her sister was describing the relationship and she was like it wasn't necessarily like always a romantic relationship. Like it seemed like like a flirtatious relationship that may have crossed the line at one point. Yeah. Like an on and off kind of casual thing. Yeah. Like cross the line of just friends. But maybe Emily wasn't into it anymore. Like that's what it seemed like. And she was telling people that she wasn't. She was like, I don't really want to be with him. And when she told him, he was not happy and like wasn't having it. So there was an incident. confirmed one night where this, and he was a police officer, he showed up to her apartment unannounced and just like walked into her apartment and he found her there with another guy. Oh. Now, the other guy that she was with was a coach at a nearby school and also a married man that she had been having an affair with. Okay. Now, her mom pointed out like, this is like kind of Emily's pattern. After what happened to her, she did date very older men. She made back. She did. And like it was like her friend Christine said, like you make bad choices sometimes because you're so affected by your past. You just don't know how to get out of it. I'm not excusing it. But no,

but it's just the reason why the choices are probably made. Exactly. So she had been having an affair with this man allegedly. And apparently his wife found out and had been threatening her. So, I mean, like why, I mean, it seemed like nobody was too keen to keep the investigation going on into her death. But it's like when all all that stuff starts to come out. That should be interesting. Why not look into it a little bit? Yeah. So the fact that they didn't seem to like care too much was really upsetting to the family and her friends.

The more upsetting thing though is that the charges against James Wilder were dropped when Emily died. What? Now she died before she was able to give her deposition. So they, and they wouldn't have enough to go to trial without her testimony. Because her testimony along with the recording would have been pretty good to have. in court together, but still even that, like, wasn't going to be, like, they were like, we can go with this and, like, it has a possibility of going really well, but we also don't have any DNA or forensic evidence. So there is a chance that we'll lose this case. That's so bad. But now that they

didn't even have her testimony, they were like, we basically have nothing. Yeah, like, what, we're really going to go with just audio here? We can't go forward. Oh, no. Yeah. And Kat Lee cited in a medium article that, quote, due to the confrontation clause of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution, prosecutors were forced to drop the charges against James. According to this clause, a defendant has the right to confront the accuser. Because James's confession had been made outside of court, it was not sufficient evidence to indict the victim with his crimes. Wow. So there is a clause in the Constitution where basically he has the right to like, to face her.

Yeah. And because that wasn't going to happen, that was like, it wasn't the only factor. Because the confession wasn't made in a law, like in an interrogation or in a court of law. Right. Oh. Right. What a fucking loophole. Uh-huh. God. And I said, I was like, I don't know what kind of like good luck charm that he carries around, but he really seems to avoid trouble. He's got a shamrock shoved up his ass. I love that. I like, I love how you just said that. Because so after. after Emily came forward and he was arrested in 2013, this is where you're going to get real pissed at the school system. So again, so he was arrested in 2008 just to remind everybody and went back to teaching at the same exact school. Then he's arrested in 2013. And when this happens, the school puts him on administrative leave and terminates his contract. So that's awesome. Right? No, because he was still being paid his salary for the next year and eight months and also got a severance package. Are you fucking kidding me? So this

motherfucker who's being investigated of like horrific abusing the children he's supposed to be teaching. Abusing the children he's supposed to be teaching and you're supposed to be taking care of and protecting. And admitting it. And it's on tape. And like that's awesome that you guys terminated his contract. But if you terminated

his contract, you don't owe him shit. He shouldn't have a severance package. Why are you paying him? Also, because he was never convicted, he never had to register as a sex offender. And he's still, to this day, currently right now as I speak, has a teaching license. So he's unable to teach in the Lindberg district, because this all happened at Lindbergh High School. He's unable to teach in that district, but he could go anywhere else and teach.

Like, he could come here to Massachusetts and teach. He could go literally, he could still be in Missouri, but be in a different district and teach. Wow. And be able to prey upon young girls because clearly he admitted it, that's what he does. He had a relationship with a 16 year old while he was a 29 year old teacher and coach. Can we, I feel like at the very least, what we can expect from our teachers is to not abuse the children that they are. I feel like at the very least we should. We could make that a bar, I feel. I feel like that's a good bar. Just that we're like, oh, if you like don't abuse the children that you're teaching. No. And you can keep your job. Well, and they do. And like, why?

Why? Why is this so hard to just be like, you know what? Teaching's not for you. Yeah. Don't do it. It's fine. Let's just end that dream for him. Let's just go right ahead. Bye. Don't do that. Why ruin his future? Yeah, we don't want to ruin his future. Let's like, what about Emily's future? Like, my God. What? So Emily's sister Andrea said about this, quote, he's been arrested twice for statutory statutory sodomy by two different women. And if you look up his criminal record today, it's completely clear. This is someone who still has their teaching license, and that seems wrong. Yeah, he has all the opportunities in the world. Now, does he though? Because I wanted to end this on a high note. Thank goodness, man. Because this whole thing was a real bummer. But you Patreon's picked it, and I said, yeah. I said yeah. So the light at the end of the tunnel is a little bit of a catch-22.

Now, Christine Lieber, I've mentioned her a couple times. She's Emily's best friend. She started a Facebook page in memory of Emily. And after the Oxygen documentary came out in December. Like it literally just came out. And obviously so many people saw it and it shed new light on the case. And that, in turn, with this Facebook group, more students from Lindbergh High have come forward on the page sharing their stories of abuse at the hands of Jim Wilder. Amazing. Yep. Horrible, but amazing that they're sharing their stories. Right. And that's why I said Catch 22 because it's like awesome that he's finally going to get hopefully some kind of like some justice will served, I fucking hope. But horrific knowing that this was so widespread.

Exactly. Now, the amount of people coming forward made Christine reach out to Wesley Bell, the prosecuting attorney. And he said about it, quote, we place a high priority on seeing that their allegations are investigated and reviewed for potential criminal charges. So let's go. Let's fucking go. Because it's like, I hope that justice will be served and that Emily is like somewhere and like can see that she started this all. Man. And I'm going to end this on a, these poor girls. This is a quote that like she, I think she'd either texted or said this to somebody else. It said, she said, at first I doubted myself and I was scared to death. But I now realize I'm not only freeing myself, but saving other girls. It's a blessing and I know, I know I've done

the right thing. That's, that just gave me chilly willies everywhere. And that was, that was one of the last things she ever said. Oh. And now it's true than ever. Oh, and I want. And I want. I want for her parents, I want her parents to see some justice out of that and her sister. I know. And it seems like her parents are like trying to work with like these people and let us help you. Like what could we do for you and her sister? Man. Yeah. That's outrageous. It was wild. It was really sad to research. There's so many articles for you to read that I'm going to link that I just like cried through reading. Yeah. And there's oh. Wow, Patrions. I know. I have to say the BuzzFeed are.

article was really awesome. That was a great one because I had read that a long time ago. Yeah. You and I were just talking about that. And also like you obviously, you know, there's audio clips from the conversation in the car. The wiretapping. I think there's some like five maybe. So you can hear his dumb ass talk. Oh my God. And his voice. Yeah. It just, it makes sense. And it's so jokey and like jovial. Yeah. He just thinks it's all whatever. He just seems like a little boy who's a little little bit, little bitch boy. You're a little butt. So yeah, I will link those in the show notes, and you can also follow us on Instagram. At morbid podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. At a morbid podcast.

Send us a Gmail. Morbidpodcast at gmail.com. We hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you suck. Don't suck. Bye. Bye.