Morbid - Carrie, Cult Classics & Chaos: A Sit Down with Matthew Lillard

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Weirdos! We’re continuing the most wonderful time of the year with a truly iconic guest that you have been asking for: Matthew Lillard!! He joins us to talk shop about his current projects as well as his incredible body of work, all the while proving that he is human charisma with a little bit of chaos sprinkled on top! We honestly haven’t laughed this much during an episode EVER!  In the episode, we chat about his upcoming Amazon Prime series Carrie where he rejoins the Flanaverse! It’s INCREDIBLY well acted, written, and directed! So  prepare yourself to stream your next Spooky Season hyperfixation and appreciate the countless brilliant performances in this incredible adaptation of the Stephen King classic! We also dive into his resume (Scream, Thir13en Ghosts, Life of Chuck, The Curve, Five Nights At Freddie’s, Serial Mom, Scooby Doo, The Descendants ) and talk about why he is loving this latest chapter in his life! Catch Carrie on Amazon Prime on October 7th! We promise you will be as obsessed with it as we are!Check out Find Familiar Spirits, featuring their Ghost Face Blood Orange Killer Collection Box Set as well the GORGEOUS Macabre Spirits boxes featuring the perfect pairing of spirits, art and current voices in horror! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. I'm Josh Hartnett. And this is morbid. It is. With Matthew Lillard, cosplaying as Josh Hartnett. How handsome am I?

So handsome. Pretty handsome. Yeah. As Josh. Of course. That's what I was talking about. That's who you are today. I loved you in that M. Night Chambon movie.

Which one was that? What was it called? The trap. The trap. You don't really love my work. If you really love my work, you would have said, Wicker Park. Wicker Park.

He also starts with I also start with Matthew Lillard. I have a problem with my I don't identify as a Hichy I identify as a Josh Hartnett.

I like that. I like that. Those are good. That's your bonus, period. I don't. Now we're set up. Now we're set up. Now we know.

Yeah. I love working with Matthew Lillard. He's so dreamy. He really is. He has an incredible chin. Everyone says that about him. That's what Josh Hartnaut would say about Matthew Lerlard.

I feel like you're right. Yeah. I will say this. I did that movie, I did that movie, Wicker Park. And it was Roseburn, him. And Diana Kruger. Oh, man. And we were in Montreal, which is a very sexy city.

And they all sat there and smoked cigarettes, and they talked about art. And I was like, I have never wanted to be a cigarette smoker in my life. And I watched all these beautiful people just like, just blackening their lungs. Yes, but death has never looked so handsome. It looks cool.

They were so, they were all beautiful. Oh, yeah. I could, I could see that. Smoking never has been sexier. But then you can just think about their lungs being like tar. When you cut open a body and somebody's a cigarette smoker, do you, can you see it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.

How do you know? She tells me stories. I used to smoke cigarettes. I'm asking the morticians. All right, I'll sit back. The autopsy test. It's how I got her to stop smoking cigarettes. You smoked?

I was like a teenager. It was so dangerous. I know. She was crazy. Was it, did you feel sexy? No, I felt stressed when I would smoke cigarettes. Because you were getting caught? No, I was smoking to relieve stress.

That's why you were. I knew you would catch me. Yeah. Yeah. It did? Yeah, you get like a little buzz. Huh. But you don't want to do it.

Your lungs will look like shit. That's not like a, that's not a PSA to do it. Your lungs will look like shit if you do it. They really will. But then they regenerate, right? Nasty. But it takes a little while. Our mind regenerated now.

Oh, yeah, yours is probably good. Love that. But yeah, they look like rotted. Ew. And they're shrively. Wait, why are you here? Don't you guys normally shoot somewhere else? Yeah.

You're at our house. Where's Massachusetts? It's in Massachusetts. It's really good. What have I come by later for dinner? Are you going to try. Would that be creepy? No, not at all.

How are you doing this? Why did you guys start this? She was an autopsy test. and she's creepy, and I needed a job. You get to the next to me. She hasn't cut up bodies in a few years. Are you still, you're not doing it? You're just doing this full time.

And I miss it. Well, there's people die every day. They do. They always have a job. There is an opportunity for you to dig right in. Yeah. Literally. I have a friend of mine in Pasadena who's a mortician.

Yeah. Morticians are even better. Well, that's like the whole preparation of the body in any connection. Take out the fluids. Yeah, but even if like you can, It's somebody who's taken their life or hurt, you're mortally wounded in a sword fight.

Of course. You prepare them for burial. Yeah. It's a pretty crazy. He has been picking up body since he was in high school. Like he'd have a beeper go off and be like, I gotta go get a body. Just like in the middle of math class?

Yeah, because he's like, it's his family business. Yeah, he said he loves to move for that. Yeah. Wow. You love that? Family business in high school, you just leave to pick up bodies. That's cool. in Kansas.

Yeah. And the guy that picked me up was like, I got picked up in a limo. And it was like a speaking event in Oklahoma. Sorry, it was Oklahoma. It was Oklahoma City.

And I'm like, oh, this is going to be kind of crazy to go see Oklahoma City. And he picked me up in a limo. And he's like, yeah, I have to go back to work. I'm like, oh, aren't you the driver? He's like, no, I'm a mortician. He was like, I got picked up. You're like, I'm alive.

They use for funerals. And he was a mortician with a side gig. What the hell? Yeah, picking up famous people. Maybe not that famous. That's a side hustle. That's pretty cool. Well, is it?

Yeah. That's pretty good. Two truths and a lie, you know? Yeah. That's good for that. That's good. Yeah. I like that.

Yeah. Except your goal of life. It's green. Ew. Yeah. Here on Morbred, you learn something every episode. You sure do. I think people think they're all different colors because in like an anatomy book, all the organs are like different colors.

But it's all one big splash of brown. Like if you had like what color, what what pantone is the inside of your guts? That's a good question. It's. Can you get a pantone chart? Yeah, I was going to say. It's like a putrid. Ew.

That's a terrible word, first of all. It's what it is. It's putrid, mavi. Mawvi. Muddy, mav. Oh, yeah, like an ugly eggplant? Yeah, like a really, like. Can you imagine walking to somebody's brand new kitchen?

I'm like, oh, I love the cult. Putrid egg plant. Let me ask you another question. Ask away. When you cut open a head, what's it smell like? What's it smell like? Here's the problem. I have a deviated septum.

So it was the best job for me because I can't smell very well. So it's not the same as everything else. It tastes. Actually, the smell, the smell tastes like something, though. The smell stays in your throat. So it feels like later you can taste it. What does it taste like? Well, a lot of times you'll get like a chemically taste

because of everything in the room. But it's also a sewery kind of taste. Hate that's the best way I can describe it. That's the best way I can describe it. You did this. We weren't going to talk about any of that. We were not going to do this. Well, I am not interested in talking about me at all.

That's a problem. I'd much rather talk about true crimes. Isn't that what you guys are known for? Yeah. It is what we're known for. That's why I'm here. That's a conflict of interest. Okay, let me ask you a couple questions.

Of course you can. By the way, I very much want to host a podcast someday. You can host with us. No, in general. I want to create and own a podcast. Hell yeah. Yeah. And you guys are super popular.

Thank you. Do you? I don't know what that is. I'm not that popular. I'm not a podcast. I'm not a podcast. Podcast guy. Yeah.

And if I do, it's usually politically based. But I'm just not that guy. Now you can listen to morbid. I'm really, I like, first of all, I've been here eight minutes. I love you both. Oh my God, thank you. We love you. I really liked the two of you.

We loved you when you walked it. You did? Yeah. It's true. You were immediately disarming. Well, you never know what to expect when you meet someone. Yeah. Sometimes it's awkward.

Immediately you were just like, hey, let's hang. Yeah. I do think that celebrity sometimes are, oh, intent, I don't know if it's intentional, but intentionally aloof. Yeah. Or they just sort of like, yeah, I have lots of thoughts about that. What do you guys want to talk about? We're going to talk about Carrie.

Oh, great. I love it. Speaking of kids. And everything else that you've done too. Yeah. We'll be here. A lot of stuff. Yeah, we would be here for days if we talk about everything.

There's a lot, right? When you like start really looking into the amount of stuff I've done, it's crazy. Yeah. It's bonkers. Yeah. Yeah, but we'll start with Carrie. Most of it's really shitty. You were in summer catch.

I rest my kiss. Billy Burbank. She's all that. There's lots of them. The dance scene. We actually don't have anything about the dance scene in here and I have to just address it. Yeah. I love that.

And that's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. People always ask me like, is, was that improv? I was going to ask you that. Yeah, nothing in Hollywood's improv. That makes sense.

Like that whole thing took, you know, we're, to practice. And then every one of those shots takes like, you know, 45 minutes is set up. So nothing is like... It looked like you were just flowing. Do you still know that dance? Watch this shit. Let's see it.

Move the tape off. Everybody clear space. Dude, you hit it, Bob! I'm like, we actually cued up the song. I mean, I'm sure I could watch it immediately fall right back into it. I love dancing. Yeah. Yeah.

You really love to dance. You are. Thanks. That's a great scene. You're welcome. You're welcome. All right. Let's talk about Carrie. Yeah, great. Okay, perfect. So we're going to start with talking about how I've heard that this version of Carrie is way closer to the Stephen King novel version. You guys haven't seen it, huh? We just started watching. I watched the first episode last night. Oh, good. And can I just say something right now?

So the Carrie, the girl who plays Carrie looks like, so I have 10-year-old twins and a seven-year-old. she looks like an older version of one of my twins. Oh. And she also, like, acts like her, like, has the same mannerisms. She has the same facial expressions. Watching her, that close up of her, when she's, like, agonized in the locker room, shattered me. Oh, I am done. I was like, I don't even know if I sawed.

Oh, you did? Oh, yeah. Like the bullying scenes with her, she killed me. I, though, this made me so happy. Yeah. I don't know. That made me. like emotional.

I mean, listen, I am so proud of the show. You should be. It's incredible. It's very little to do with me. But that, the woman that plays Carrie, her name Summer H. Howell, and she is, they auditioned 1,400 girls. Wow. Wow. Women.

And they found, the system worked. And it's like one of those things that the system works. She submitted a tape. A month later, like she submitted another tape. Two months later, she submitted another tape. And then she started to catch fire. And then she did her last audition with Mike. And then she's like, oh, and she told the story this morning.

She's like, I'm finally done. No, she had auditioned one last time. Like, this is going to Mike. And she's like, okay, good. I've got the weekend off. And may hear something on Monday. And 20 minutes later, she was pulling yourself a bath. And Mike Flanning called back.

Oh my God, stop. I want you to do it again right now. And I want you to find a motion in these scenes. She found it. And she did it. And like on April 1st she got the job. Oh my God. Imagine getting that job offer on April.

I was just going to say, I am so nervous. Are you sure? I'd be like, don't fuck with me. She is simply remarkable. Yeah. She is effortlessly brilliant the entire show. It comes across. Even just in the first.

Every facial expression she makes when she's just like, unsure and agonized, and like people aren't telling her what's going on. I was like, it was like destroying me. And the idea that you don't know you're having your period. Yes. And the idea that you immediately go to, I am done. And why would you not think you're dying? Right.

You know, here is this blood. I mean, it's really, it's, and the thing I just want to say, this idea that she makes faces. is not what she's doing. She is zero conception of what she's doing. It's just what's happening. It's so real. An actor in flow, an actor who's a really brilliant actor,

has zero consideration what's happening. It's just like organic. They're just responding. They're listening and responding and the energy is contagious. You can see that with her. And she's remarkable. And then at the same time, Sam Sloyan, who plays her mother, as you continue through this journey,

you're going to be like, this woman is a, is literally one of the best actors working today. And has been for a long time, just nobody sees it. And here comes her performance of a lifetime. And my hope is that if for no other reason, you should watch this show for their two performances. Because as the show grows, the story continues to evolve. The story's brilliant.

Mike Flanagan's an incredible filmmaker. But these two performances are remarkable. No, they're so, so good. Because she plays Beverly and Midnight Mass. Incredible, right? Midnight Mass is one of my favorites. Midnight Mass. Oh, my God.

That's how I found Mike. Mike and I had lunch, got along great. He's like, I'm like, I told him, I'm, to be honest with you, I don't know any of you're like, what do you think I should watch? He's like, try Midnight Mass. I love that because that's my favorite. I haven't seen it yet, but we're gonna watch it together. And she plays a character, as soon, in fact, because Ash watched Carrie for, like,

a first episode first, and she was like, waiting to see her mother. Her mother is the perfect, like, perfectly cast. And as soon as she said it, she was like, oh my God, she's like, embodies it. And I was like, I wonder if it's the woman who played Bev in Midnight Mass. Like, I just knew it. I was like, it sounds like it. And I looked it up and I was like, yep, that was her. I knew that's fantastic. We went to Comic-Con for the first time, San Diego Comic-Con. Have you never been to to Comic-Con? It's like this. Have you guys done Comic-Con? You have it. You should. I know. I kind of watch it. I would love to. Next year, check out weirdos. Come check out

the podcast at Comic-Con. It's going to be awesome. We'll be there. We're going to do a live show. It's going to be foul. Oh, yeah. Enjoying us. Her and Mike had never done Comic-Con. Really? And when we came out, we had Hall H. We had a massive hall. I don't think we did Hall-A-H. It was a huge hall.

And it was packed. And both Mike and Sam were met with this fervor. Oh, yeah. As they should. I mean, Mike understands it, but I don't think Sam's ever really heard that firsthand. Right. And they showed it was the first time they screened like a clip,

scenes. It was awesome. It was awesome. And I love them both. Yeah. And so it's been great to see her get her flowers. Yeah, definitely. And I love Mike Flanagan.

I know. I was so excited that he had this. Like, he was in control of this. I was like, oh, it's going to be good. I want you to know something. He is better than you think. I love Mike Flanagan. I love hearing that.

You're actually incredible. Oh, that makes me so happy. So I tell you something. I don't know if it's going to land, and I don't know if a land with the podcast world. But we show up, first of all, you never have rehearsal. First of all, does anyone care about this? I guess.

Carrie, for one more second? Yes. Oh, yeah. We have plenty more. Please go. If it gets boring, just cut it. Yeah. We'll just scream to you.

There's a good chance you're never going to see this because I'm a boring, boring man. No way. So, yeah, so you never, so many times you do a TV show, you'll get your script, you'll get the pilot, you'll read that as you go into the work, like, you know, two days before you're starting to shoot the next episode, along comes the next script. When we signed up, we had all eight scripts. Oh, wow. When we got there, we had three. We had three and a half week, a month of rehearsal, before the start of Kerry,

the first time we walked into rehearsal, Mike Flanagan, and said, right, we're going to do these scenes. The idea here is that you get to know each other, but we get these scenes on their feet. He's like, okay, in this scene, the first time we work, he's like, we're going to shoot it on this day.

The time that we're going to shoot it is between this time and this time. On these first five lines, I'm going to be on this take, and then I'm going to reverse here. You're going to be sitting there, And then these lines, I'm going to be on her. And then these lines are going to be on a wide.

So he already knows where it lives in the cut. At what time he's going to shoot it on what day, five months before we shoot a month before we shoot a single frame. That's crazy. Wow. I heard there was an app too that you could. Yeah. So he literally published an app so you could see every day where you were. That is incredible.

That's like next level. Yeah. I feel like more people need to do that, right? Well, nobody has, nobody has that capacity. I've never seen anything like that in my life. Why do you think he does? Because he starts, did I just hold your hands? You did.

It's not rumors. Moral support. Because he starts, how long do you think we're going to hold hands before this gets uncomfortable? Just the whole time. We'll just have to scroll together. Listen, this is he, I lost my train of thought. It's been a long time. have hold a stranger's hand.

You got down. This is the guy awkward. Stroker hair too, you know? You guys, we were sitting close. It was about to happen. It was going to bomb. But yeah, you never, you never have that kind of, I've

never seen. I'm sure maybe it happens somewhere else. I'm going to get all his hate mail. Like, Christopher Tullin. Exactly, we do that. He's done it for him for his sequel. He did it first. Yeah, yeah. But he's remarkable and kind.

And he lays down these rules. The rules are no phones on set. Don't be late. and no sides. A lot of times actors come to set and they'll have their sides. There's like this safety net. He's like, that's not what we do here.

Oh, I like that. Come and you're ready to work. He's like, this is not a middle school dance. You can't be on sides. We did this huge scene where there's like 400 extras and I have a speech in front of this community and no sides, which is like, you know, you're nervous, your body, your instruments responding,

and your adrenaline's, rushing and you're like, you know, sometimes things just slip out. Yeah. That happens to you? Yeah. I'm just kidding. What? What do you mean?

What? I'm very old. Things slip out all the time. I'm only 30 and that happens to me too. As soon as I hit 40, that really started happening. Yeah. You've never really had a filter. No.

It's a nice thing. From birth. Yeah. Well, staying on Carrie, because first of all, again, I love Mike Flanagan. So I'm so happy to hear that he's who I thought he was, like who I pictured him in my head. The best. So I was reading that you also have like a somewhat personal connection to some of the struggles that Carrie might go through with her peers.

Sure. I had my period. I didn't know what it was. Yeah. I want to talk about that. I want to know about that. Locker rooms are tough, right? But what resonated most for you?

Oh, my God. Are you talking about? I'm like, I was an obese teenager who has a severe learning disability. I had braces and glasses. I came from Detroit, Michigan to Orange County, California. Damn. That's a tough transition. Yes.

And I was this fat kid who was in drama. I mean, the amount of F bombs I thought. Oh, my God. Yes. How many F bombs do you catch in the mid-80s about being an actor? Yep. You know, and listen. I'll fight them for you.

That's true. I'll retroactively fight them. You know, it's funny. I had, it's not like I didn't have friends. I had a ton of friends, but all my friends were those little punk rock kids and drama kids and all these kids that were sort of outside of the popular bubble. And I've always seen myself, I think that once you're, you know, once you struggle with weight, especially as a kid, you always identify as that.

Yeah. And my mom and dad worked full time. My dad started his own business and they just worked. And so we were raised on a steady diet of fast food and crap that we ate because we were poor, working class poor. and no time and no energy. And my mom and dad were both obese from Detroit. And so, you know, it was a brutal experience.

But that allowed me to find my voice, to be funny, to find a charm because how do you pass a class? If you can't do it, you charm the shit out of everyone. How do you not get your ass kicked? You're funnier than the guy next few who's getting his ass kicked. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, it's sort of, Yeah.

That's all high school is survival. Yeah. I feel like junior high is like... Junior high is worse. I think especially for girls. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do think that...

I mean, you know, listen, I have two kids. I have three kids. I have a girl who's now 24. I have a non-binary kid who's 21 and then an 18-year-old boy. So I've seen like every iteration of the site story. Like... And it continues. It's hard for everyone.

I do... I think that boys have more bravival. have more bravado to cover the suffering. That makes sense. And they have sports to like sort of like, but, you know, it's there. It's a struggle for all of us. It's a struggle for everyone. Yeah. It really is.

Yeah. Well, going back to Mike Flanagan, he takes this. Do you think that that is why some of the reason that you found this podcast world? Like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think partially, because we always say you're the table or where the table that anybody can sit up. Yeah.

And that's why we call our listeners weirdos, you know? Like it's like a place where we can all. all fit in and talk about weird topics without shame. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, that's why. Oh, that's why I'm here. Yeah, that's why you like us.

Yeah, yeah, I immediately like you. Yeah, I'm not going to tell you which one. I think I know which one. I think I don't. Oh, no. I like you. I adore you both. Okay.

Yeah, I don't like that fucking guy. I don't know who that guy is. That's Mikey. Everybody loves violence in his heart. I see him. He's from. Canada. No, he doesn't. I don't think he's from Canada. He's from Canada. There's no violence in his heart. Yeah. What about that guy? Can't read him yet. He's a film guy. He knows. He's a film guy. You know what it is. He's very smart and I don't like those.

I can see. Look at his glasses. I see your glasses. You're off-camera ho-camera police. You can't see them, but you know them. Yeah, you know them. I like that. You're also very successful. Thank you. But I think that that's, and I think that's because you welcome everyone at the table. Yeah, we try. I think so, yeah. I think, and I think it's important to build other people up. Yeah.

You can't get up to the top if you're like kicking everyone else down on the way up. I think more people need to do that. Yeah. I think especially as women again. Exactly. We need to do that. Yeah. But I want to.

Why especially as women. In fact, I would say, I would argue, especially men should stop kicking people down. Yeah. Right? I'm not kicking people down. I think women- She's not kicking, period. Just stop it.

Just stop it. But I think as women, we put each other down a lot. You know what I mean? We need to be more like, hey, like, come be at the top with me. Yeah. There's no competition. We can all be here. Well, yeah, the world is bountiful.

Yeah. That was one of the things I always struggled with. I've been talking about this, like, in this last cycle of press with Kerry. I mean, I lived with Paul Rudd for two years. That's wild. That's so cool. That's a wild thing to be able to be at. No, I mean, we were both in the same acting school,

and we had three roommates, him and I and this guy named Dalton Grant. But I was, for the longest time, so jealous of his success. Yeah. That it really was hard. It really hindered my own appreciation or joy of my own success. And I always compared myself. And at the end of the day, it was so detrimental.

Oh, yeah. To my mental health, to my approach to the work. I mean, it was really brutal. He has no idea. Well, now he does. Right now. He's still better. He's listening.

He's listening. Yeah, he's listening right now. He's so lovely and so nice. But I was like, so jealous. I was so jealous and so insecure. We've all been there. But then once you realize that, you can move on from it. Yeah, you can break out of it.

And at least you realize it in the next one. That's why I'm talking about it, I think. Yeah, it feels good. The older I get, the more I can let go of like my own, you know, idiosyncratic. Like bullshit. Yeah. I turned 30 this year and I feel like I'm etching or stepping closer to like not really caring what other people think. Yeah, wait until you get to 50.

She says wait until you get to 40. 40 was awesome. I mean, 50 is like, I mean, what do I care? Yeah. I can't imagine how that must feel. But I also think that it's not like a FU to the world. No. It's really there you grow.

I do, and I like this word a lot and I say it a lot when I teach. and when I speak about acting and craft, I love the word wisdom. Like you have a sense of wisdom. You just don't have it 30. Yeah. And I'm not... You don't have it at, you know, maybe you do.

Who am I to say when people find wisdom? Or own their own wisdom. But for me, I was like around 50, I was like, it seems, it sounds arrogant. Like I'm, I have a wisdom about me. about me? I don't think so. But I've been acting

since I was 14. And I feel like, and you've been a lot of different people. Yeah, yeah. I've done a lot of different things. I've done a lot of classes and a lot of plays and a lot of everything. Yeah.

But at some point, you like, it really helped me to sort of acknowledge the fact like, oh, I'm a master of what I do. Yeah. Only because of the amount of time, you know, not the quality. Which we'll get into

as we discuss my filmography. But, you know, you learn over time, like, you have a sense of yourself and the craft and the business and the journey and the whole thing. And it always feels like arrogance, but I think more people need to give themselves a pat on the back when they're... It's confidence. When you, like, you know what, I am good at this or like, I do know more about this.

Yeah. Even you say that, I'm like, oh, no, it's not that thing. But it's okay to admit that. I know, but... It feels weird because we're taught, I think, not to do that. Humble. To be humble. Yeah, and I don't think you really need to be that humble.

But every once in a while admitting that you're good at this thing and being like, you know what, I know this stuff. And I will say this. I have such deep tendencies. And Mike Flanagan will see this. And Sam Sloane will someday see this. But I have such deep tendencies to slag myself off. Right?

This idea. Like, I am self-deprecating to a fault. Oh, yeah. I am the same exact way. Yeah. And I want to say to you and to me that so does not serve me. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't.

It doesn't serve you at all. Because the bullshit you say to yourself sticks. No, you're so right. It really does. I call myself that constantly. Yeah. It's like, or I'm an outsider. I mean, all this language is so stupid.

Because it trains your brain to believe it. I was just going to say that. You see that when you crack open a head? Yeah. You can see it written all over everything. It's etched in your brain. Well, I even think like the beginning of this podcast to now, I used to make fun of myself so much more often in the beginning.

I used to call myself trash in the beginning. Yeah. And I do. I'm still a little trash. Yeah. Because I'm, my name is Ash. Can't spell ash. Can't spell trash without.

And I like a Captain Crunch slurpy. So like... What don't you? What are? You keep your mouth shut. You just don't want to know about that. Don't you dare. I mean, you can get one.

You can. I have not had one, but she said, I see what that does. I said, no. What's that? Oh, I thought you said I looked like a slurpy. I thought you said, I'm almost deaf. I thought you'd talk. I thought you said, I looked like a Burger King slurpy or whatever you said.

I thought you said. were just excited. I said, I used to drink Captain Crunch Slurpee. Oh. I think he said I looked like a Captain Crunch Slurpee. And I was like, you never talked about you that way. I don't know what that means. I don't know either, but it doesn't sound good. No, it doesn't. You should never call yourself that. I've never compared myself to that. Gosh, come on. How do I recover from that? What am I? I was like, you do kind of look like a slurpy. I'd be like, well, Matthew Lillard. I guess I know which one you And C, why don't you leave?

Thank you. Excuse me, violence. Get this man out. Excuse me, violence. All right. I'm crying. Let's bring it back to me. All right.

Let's bring it back to you. I want your opinion on the bag. Is this the most chaotic? Absolutely. You've ever had. Yes. It's great. But I'm having a good time.

We just made you cry. The weird is you'd be like, I hate Matthew Lillard. No, cry and like laugh cry. That's good. Have you ever? Have you ever? Has anything on this podcast ever made you cry? Yes.

the Chris Watts case The what case? The Chris Watts case He was more recent I probably will if I think about it He's like a family annihilator He's a family annihilator And he had two very young daughters And I'm not a cryer

I don't know how you'll bring you down It's tough and I'm not a crier usually I say that like I should cry more I'm one of those people that's like I just stop myself from crying Well don't you think that that It's not good is that don't you all, I mean, when you're cutting people up,

like something, you've got to detach, there's got to be some kind of emotional detachment. Absolutely. And you're a hyper-corn. That does not serve. No, because then I take it into my life. I mean, I will say this, as an actor, for better or for worse, you remove the barriers for energy that is emotion.

And I have had to apologize to my children, my wife, multiple times for being, when I get angry, I get really fun. Because you just left. Really? Yeah. There's not, I'm like, I don't, it's, I just, the energy comes screaming out. You don't bury emotions. No, bear emotions.

You lean into them. But also, within that, I love with all of my heart. I laugh really hard. Yeah. I enjoy people deeply. Like, I mean, there's lots of good things. And in the work, the older I get, the closer I am to the energy, which makes me, you know, I think it's, it serves my work. It serves my work.

Yeah. But there have been times in my life where I just... Not so much. Not so much, man. Too much. Yeah. Too much energy. But I have wisdom.

And I'm the opposite side where I have to like apologize for not being emotional enough. Oh yeah. That's hard. I think that's way harder. But you're getting better. I'm trying. I think. When somebody cries in front of me, I literally don't know what to do.

And I cry a lot. That shuts me right down. Yeah. I have a friend of mine who called me up. He's a lovely man and I adore him. And he called me up. But it's like, I have a problem. Like what?

He's like, when people get emotional around me, I laugh. He's like, what acting tricks do you have? I also will do that sometimes? Because I get uncomfortable. What acting tricks do I have, do you have that help me do it? I'm like, first of all, you have to acknowledge you're doing it. Yeah. Right?

And just, and I think that in that acknowledgement, you have to say, I'm really sorry. And when I get uncomfortable, I laugh. And it's just energy. That's pretty much what I do. And all it is your body going, I want to cry, but instead I'm going to laugh. Because this is easier for me to. I can pick this out quicker. And all of the things that inhibit your crying are really deep things.

Yeah. Because it's about. Is your nervous system? Yeah. But it's also like, I don't want to cry because of weak. I don't want to be weak. I don't like all kinds of stigmas are translating that in your mind. Yeah.

Because you're always telling me if I like go to, I'll like stop myself and she's like, will you just let it out? Like let it cry. You're swallowing it. I'm like, no, not. And then you're getting it buried in there. You know what you're doing in that situation? Just make a sound. Just, yeah, that's true.

Oh, I like that. If you make a sound, all you're, uh, it's like sing a song. I don't think I've ever heard you sing. Yeah. She's not a singer. What are we? What the hell are we talking about? How did we get here?

I know. Let's bring us back to Carrie for a minute. All right. So we're going to talk about your guy, Mike Flynn again. He took this story. This is a seven-part episode here on. We can use it for a couple of episodes. Yeah, we could do two-parter, you know.

But Mike took this story that's almost 50 years old, and he kind of takes this modern approach to it, like modernized social media, the high school. You're walking in through metal detectors. What part of that modernization felt the most scary to you as the story goes on? Yeah, I mean, it's, I think that every parent out there or kid will be able to identify with the horrors

that is this specter of social media. Right? I mean, again, going back to this example that we use, which is in the first diploma version of Carrie, you know, having your first period and amongst girls in the shower, is a brutal experience. The fact that that would then be photographed and videoed

and then placed online for social media for people to see. Forever. Forever. And it never goes away. And that, the horror of that, the impact of that, the damage that would do to kids. Yeah. And listen, every, there's so many kids out there

that have this horrific experience that, you know, is really horrific. It's really horrible. And so to me, that's the thing that, and that is the, you know, sort of the fulcrum of the whole piece once this social media, anonymous social media post goes up, the whole story changes.

And it's actually, I mean, Mike Flan, again, there's a town in California. This actually happened. And the school, it was destroying the school, and it's an anonymous social media posting. The school's like, we can't do anything about it. They didn't know who the kids were. They were doing it.

They were outing people across. And the whole community, like, there was a riot broke out that's in California somewhere. Wow. And he was like, that is a horror story. Yeah, that's my word. And so he's built this whole, the whole, movie pivots on this anonymous social media account.

Right. And it fits perfectly into the story, I feel like. Oh, yeah. Plops right into it. Mike Flann, like, he went to Stephen King, who he's visiting Stephen King today, actually. I'm so jealous. Yeah, we need to get you to Stephen.

I'm so close to Stephen. We just sent Elena's books to Stephen. We have like one degree away. Oh, really? I'm getting there. Elaine is also an author. Yeah. Oh, amazing.

Yeah. That's cool. So he just got my books. And I was like, please read them. That's so cool. He's popping up in our life. Yeah. Oh, you and I should talk about something.

You should. I like that. Yeah, I'm gonna remind you. I have a spirit company called Find Familiar Spirits. We produce a product called Maccob Spirits. Yes. And we have a novella. We develop a novella with writers.

That's so cool. We get art from these beautiful artists that sort of, they read the story, and then they create the art. And then we create a spirit experience around the short story. I'm obsessed with that. Yeah, I'll send you a bottle. Oh, my God, I would love that. Oh, thank you.

I'll send you a bottle. Thank you. That's so cool. Yeah, you're welcome. So anyway, so Flanagan pulled social media out. To me, that's the true horror of the story. I think so, too. It's like its own character, you know?

Yeah. Well, you play Principal Grail, and he's one of the adults watching this all unfold. Do you think as the story progresses, he's somebody that genuinely sees Carrie and, like, understands her? Or do you think he's somebody who ultimately, who ultimately, ends up failing her or both. Yeah, I think he does here. I think he does everything he can in this moment to usher not only her through safely

through this event, but the entire community. He's really trying to get he doesn't want to lose a single kid. Right. And at the heart of this story, the same way it's in the King novel, and in all the iterations, is Chris Harginson, played by Ali Thornton, who's fantastic. She's a brilliant actor.

She is the one that every turn keeps ratcheting up all these all the drama in the story. And every single time I'm like, you have to stop. My character is the one, like, basically begging her,

I am going to reach my hand out again to try to pull you in, to take responsibility and to stop. And like, I think most administrators he's hog-tied. I mean, he's hands are tied behind us back. Yeah.

You have a parent on one side that's like losing his mind. A school board. Yeah. All of these elements is like he, you know, he just, he's, he's inert. He can't really affect any change. He's doing the best he can. That's gotta be wildly difficult. Really hard.

I mean, listen, I mean, it's, I think that the great thing about Flanagan is that there are no loose ends, there are no mistakes. There's nothing that you're like, where are that story, go, it is so tight that at the end of it, you're left with, you know, it's an allegory. I mean, it's, it's, the story is the question of like, do you choose kindness or cruelty? And at the end of it, our hope is that you're sitting around

a kitchen table with friends, your family, whatever, with weirdos, and you are in deep conversation about what it means to be kind. One episode in, we are already having those conversations. Oh, yeah. Isn't that funny? Yeah. I mean, I do think, here's the great news.

I think people constantly ask, and they should, Stephen King, that's what my point was before, that I didn't make because I got lost in Macomb spirits. Stephen King said to Mike, why? Why make it again? We've had five iterations of it. Which is valid question. I know, that's true.

And Mike was like, here's my pitch. Social media is the new... It's perfect. And when you wrote this back in the 70s, and De Palma shot it. in the 70s. Nobody can know what the scourge of social media would be. And here's a brand new way to tell a story.

It's not like kids are running around quoting the Palma's version. Yeah. There's a whole new audience for it, and I think it's relevant. And eight episodes allows you to dig in. Oh, yeah. You know, you really get to see all these characters. And Stephen, to his credit, said, let's do it. That's the only way I'll do it.

Really? And he, for the record, fucking loves it. Yes, that's what I heard. Yeah. watched it twice through. Which is such a huge compliment. I can't imagine receiving that compliment. I feel like Carrie is one of the babies.

Yeah. Well, I mean, look, Carrie, for sure, it's his first novel. Yeah. His wife pulled it out of the trash. Tadby. I love that story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And he also loved Life of Chuck. I mean, he loves Mike, I think. Yeah. I don't know, but I think it seems like it. I think he does. I think he trusts him. Yeah. And Mike Flanagan adores him.

Yeah. And I think Mike takes care of his stories. Yeah. Mike says there's two ways to do retelling of a story. You either guard each word that Stephen, specifically around King, you either guard each word with your life and do the most earnest representation of what every single page says.

Or you take each piece of the book apart and you put it together in a little different order with more behind it. Yeah. And he's done both. And he's the best. He's so good. He really is.

You follow the House of Usher is so good too. That's on my list to launch. That's a tough one. That's a tough one. So that one was really good. Yeah. Well, life of Chuck is incredible. Like if you haven't seen Life of Chalk, it's incredible.

I was literally, I was just about to talk about Life of Chalk. You were so amazing in that movie. Like it makes me cry. When you can see, like, even just the screenshots of you in that movie are like, they really are. I'm really proud of it. You should be. I'm glad to be in that movie.

You should be. And I love that. It's two takes. And people loved you in that. Like across the board, people were like, oh my God. You were talking about it on the way in here. Yeah. Yeah.

We literally were. And now with that, with Life of Chuck and Carrie, you're part of like the Stephen King universe now too. Oh yeah, yeah. So you're saying the Flanophone. And you're part of the Flanniverse, too. So that's actually crazy that you're part of both now. Those are massive universes.

You should see. Yeah. Those are big universes. But is there a Stephen King character that you would just, like, love to play? I mean... I have some ideas. Oh, you do? Yeah.

That I'll pitch to you. I'll take any of them. I'm very slutty. I'll do any of that. We were just saying we love that word. We were just talking about how much we love that word. It's a good word. You know, Puritans used to use that word to just mean you, like, were untidy.

Like your house was messy. Your house. You were like, oh, that's a slut. That's a good slut has a great word. Yeah, it is. It has like a, it rings in your body. It does. Yeah, you can feel it.

And it has it. At the end. That's very satisfactory. Yeah. It has all the good sounds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, Dark Tower is something that Mike Flanagan owns and is working towards

producing one dog. Hill. I would love to be honest world. Yeah. I think you would be a really good. I have three. Okay. That's out of for you.

You have options. So I think, yeah. you can decide. Or you can play all of them. I'll be the grown gauge. As the gauge gets older. There you go. There you go.

Grown gauge. That could work. I like that. I think you could be Father Callahan in Salem's lot. Oh, okay. You would be a good, like, scary priest. Like, goes through a good arc. I think Leland, from Leland Gant from Needful Things.

Okay. He's like a demonic. I don't know that one. So. Why is it? I don't know the one either. What is your problem? This one's fun, though.

I think you would, because he's all said. The nicest people. The other thing about him is he's very charming. Oh, he is. He has to charm an entire town. Okay. There you go. So he's like a demon who has to charm a whole town with his antique shop that gives them everything

they want. But then he sows discord among them all, like unbeknownst to them. Do you think it's a good movie? I think it would be in a fantastic movie. You do? Okay. The book is great. Yeah.

And I think the third one. Finally. I think... Gunslinger? No. No. But sure. Try it.

I wish. Go for it. Do whatever you need to do. I think you would be a good Jack Torrance. You do? But if they did it to the book, because I feel like Jack Torrance in the book has like an arc. Like he is so likable for most of the movie. Like you love him.

Like he's lovable. He's like he's like kind of tortured but he like wants to be good. So he's trying really hard and you kind of like root for him. And then he goes through the downfall and becomes really scary. And I think you could do that like. Oh, good. Yeah. So we should pitch that.

What do you think? Can we call Flanagan? Yeah. So if you're listening. Let's see if I got it. My phone. Grab the Shining next and redo it. I don't think he would ever touch the Shining.

Probably not. I don't think anybody's going to touch the Sharding. You're the second person today to say you should play Jack Twins. Really? Yeah. Somebody else. So maybe we're all manifesting. I think we're on to something.

Yeah, but I was like, you know, he's doing the movie ever again. I know. I mean, maybe. He didn't love it. You know, it was King. He didn't love it. He didn't love it. I think that my hope is that as Stephen King gets older, that he will want to see the

Dark Tower made, and he will put his powers to make it happen. The problem is that all these companies own all the IPs. And you really have to have an act of God to bring a multiple. I know that gets messy. That's true. All right. Well, we'll play you in. I didn't know we were on a Stephen King podcast.

This is pretty good. Yeah. We do love King. Yeah. I think you should be Leland gone then for needful things. I think we should do that. Final answer. Yeah, that's my pitch.

All right. We're going to do a GoFundMe for the Claymation version. The Claymation version. That's how much money we're going to make. It's crazy. I'll give you five bucks. All right. Let's go.

Let's go. So we've already talked about how. You were really excited to talk about it. I mean, you did. She was stoked. I was really excited. It was about Steve. There's like.

There's a D&D. No, pages of like. Just. You can also play. Just Steven. She has a lot of tabs. I did. I actually took it down to three because I was like really going for it.

I can't pitch you too. Revity. It's tough. You know? So decisions are hard. So we talked about being like the weird kid growing up or feeling like the weird kid. Like I know I felt that way. Most I still feel that way at 40.

It's cool now, though. But do you feel like it like kind of becomes a superpower a little bit? And if so, when did it for you? That's a good question. Because I feel like it's mine now. I think it absolutely is. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you've built a business around weirdos. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty great. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that allows, I think the great thing about sort of identifying as somebody on the outside looking in is that it releases the pressure to be cool. Mm-hmm. I feel very.

I don't feel like I have to be cool. I don't, you know, I'm not sort of like, sure, I was hung up on that. I'm sure at some point of my life. Everybody was going to say, yeah. And then it also allows you sort of like accept everyone. Like you sort of see people as equals a lot. And that sort of, it levels the playing field and it just makes your life much easier. Yeah, I agree.

And it makes you able to enjoy things like with your whole chest. Yeah, that is for sure. Because I think that's the best part of it is you get shamed for enjoying things. I feel unabashedly loving things. I unabashedly talk about my love of Dungeons and Dragons. Just let us into our next question. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's a huge part of my life.

And also, like, I mean, all kinds of things, like video games. Yeah. And like, you know, and I don't, you know, in this business, being in Hollywood, so much status. Status used to mean so much to me. And listen, and the whole, I've been on, you know, we talk about wisdom. You grow into wisdom. I used to walk past The first movie I ever did was called Serial Mom

I used to walk past the theater and try to be recognized by the people coming out I love that I see a movie Which one? Do I look familiar with it? Mom! I mean I literally You know was but I desperately

wanted to be famous And then I you know I ran around Hollywood And then you know I wanted to be I wanted to be number one on the call sheet On Bing movies Like I've gone through this whole cycle. Yeah, of course. You know, and to the point where I never thought it'd work again, like, I had lots of,

I've been on every iteration of the Hollywood journey known to man. I'm sure. And the one I enjoy the most is when I first started and where I'm at now. And I'm having this, like, crazy resurgence in my career as an actor and my popularity. I've never been more popular. Yeah. And I don't know if that's the most humble thing I've ever said. It's just the reality of it. Yeah.

But right now, whatever's happening, it's like, it's freaking awesome. Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah, I find the older I get and having this like resurgence, I live in a very small bubble in my hometown and nobody gives a shit. My kids don't care. My wife certainly doesn't care. And, you know, we sort of like, we have our group of friends and we have our group of like, you know,

families that were connected to, whatever's happening right now is like changed everything. And now I will get caught in public and I don't want to be caught in public. Yeah, I could get that. And I, you know, like I said, I would walk around looking for attention, wanting to be famous.

And now I'm like, yeah, I'm not interested. In fact, I will say this, there was, we did Scream 7 premiere, and they let influencers into the Scream 7 premiere. And I saw this on social media, and she's out there, and she's going to hear this. This young girl, and what was happening was like, I was surrounded by a sea of people wanting to get in to interview me

or catch video or do all these things. That is so overwhelming. That's a premiere where I want to see my friends and sort of something. Yeah, yeah. And I did it a couple times, and I'm like, okay, I'm done for the night, thank you. I'm done for the night, thank you.

And they just kept coming back. And you're allowed to say that you're done. Yeah. And it's like, I'm not working. I'm not working. This isn't supposed to be a job. I'm actually supposed to be celebrating. Having fun right now.

This is like the old, like this is the best time. Yeah. Like, and I'm not having fun. But they've packed it with these influencers. And at some point, this girl, this young woman caught my breath. I'm like, I snapped at her. Yeah. You know when he pushed some far.

And then she posts exactly what you expect, which is like, I was so excited to me, Matthew Lillard. He was a total asshole. And it's one. It's a bad moment. I take full responsibility. But it's a bad moment. I was super rude.

Yeah. But I was super done. Yeah. That's human. Yes. And I was so kind for so long going, I'm, you guys, I'm done. I'm done. And you make it clear.

And then my kids had to start getting in the way. Oh, your kids are there too? Yes. And they're like, he doesn't want. And they see me get angry ones. And like I said. So your kids know. And they know.

You're pushing him. So if that young lady's out there, I apologize. I was a dick. She was right and posted that something and I saw it the next day. I'm like, but I feel like that's become like a thing that people try to get a rise out of people now and get them in a bad moment just to be like, hey, they're an asshole. And it's like, no, they're just a human and having a human moment.

Everyone has a bad day. And it's like the person who posted that also has, I can guarantee you, she has also had a moment where she's been a dick. She didn't get it posted on the internet. But nobody. I do not know why we're talking about this. I don't know how I got to this moment. And I don't know if I liked it or if I didn't like it.

But I will say I owe that young woman in apologies. All right. That's nice of you. You're big for that. I love it. Now I want to do your chart. I know. Do you believe in astrology?

Not really. But I don't disbelieve in it. All right. Like there are things I'm like, yeah, I don't believe in that at all. Yeah. But I do think that my dad and I were born two days apart. and we were on very similar cycles for a long time. That makes total sense.

He would have success. I had a massive success. Okay. I would sort of start to struggle. He was sort of started to struggle. Interesting. That is interesting. Has to do with Jupiter.

Is that what? Has to do with Jupiter when you're struggling and when you're not. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that. You have a lot of eclectic talents. Thank you. Yeah.

Why do we go to D&D? Yeah, because we were just talking about D&D. Great, yeah. Yeah. So you've said before, that sitting around a tabletop gaming table. The best way to spend the life. One of the best ways to spend a life?

Not one of. What happens at the table that you believe we could be missing elsewhere? Like what makes it the best? Yeah, you, they're my favorite people. The people I play with are my closest friends. I love that. That's cool.

They are, I started, you know, I played as a kid. I quit in like, you know, junior high school. school when most kids quit. And then my roommate in acting school when I went to New York had D&D books. And I was 21 years old. I'm like, dude, we're 21. We're supposed to be getting hammered and doing chicks. But let's do you have this. This lame. You're so weird. He's like, bro. I'm like, bro, dude, bro. Do bro. Bro men. Let's get some lettuce. Let's get some lettuce. It's so hilarious. Because we were still freaking acting school kids.

Of course. And he's like, I like to play D&D. I'm like, oh, that's awesome. Awesome. And I said it in class one day, and my buddy's like, oh, that's cool. We should play. Hell yeah. And after a Super Bowl one year, we went to Circle in the Square, which is where we all went to school.

It's a big Broadway theater house on 50th and Broadway. It's an incredible theater school, by the way. If anyone thought they're looking for a theater school, like, I'm always pitching our school because it's fantastic. Anyways, we had access to the lobby. We started playing one night at like 9 o'clock at night. We rolled up characters, and we started to play.

We left when the sun came up at 6th in the morning. Oh, I love that. And we have been playing since that was 21, and I'm 56 years old. Wow. I love that. The longest campaign we ever played with seven years. Wow.

I like that a lot. I love that. But, you know, I play, we've played for years and you sit around, you're telling stories, which is as old as time. Yeah. With actors who are lovely and smart, and creative and, like, everyone's invested. So, yes, you're talking in voices.

Oh, my God, I love that. You know, and you're playing with your whole chest. Yeah. And it's just the best, man. and we laugh hard. Hell yeah. And we, you know, we eat pizza, we don't drink, we don't smoke, we eat. Like, we don't, we're just not.

You become me. Huh? You become me. I totally become you. Our insides are pure. Look at that. Just like a yucky mauve. But yeah, but it's just the best.

I love that. I've never played it, and I've always thought that I was somebody who should have played it. Yeah. There's still time. I was going to say you still can. I need to start doing it. 100%. Because I would love it.

It's a lot. It's also like, there are no phones. Like you remove. Yes, I love that. The responsibility to be a dad or a husband or working actor or whatever. You know, and you get to, it is the story of good versus evil. Yeah. And like you're rising up and doing heroic things and vanquishing the, you know, the evil.

Yeah. It's great. It's like being in a real fantasy book. I love that. It is. Do you love fantasy books? I do love fantasy books. What's your favorite fantasy book?

I'm reading right now and I'm obsessed with the ninth house by Lee Bardugo. It's a trilogy. I saw it. Yeah, yeah. I've seen it. It is so good. It's like secret societies in Yale and magic.

I've heard really good things about that. It's delicious. I love it. Can I tell you my favorite writer right now? Yeah. And all the weirdos. Yeah. It sounds familiar.

the rent fare for years started writing and has now become incredibly successful. Yeah. Good for him. Hell yeah. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's my reading recommendation of the day.

Good. You love those. Yeah. We're always recommending books that filtered in nicely. There you go. All right. Can we talk about Scream? Yeah.

The original, 1996, the year I was born. You play one of the most I know. I know that. I know that. Listen, this was a lot of fun. But I have to go now. My phone's ringing. In my pocket, it's time you take it.

Sorry. No, it's okay. But you play. Here's my hope. Tell me. What is that you ask a question I've never been asked before in 30 years? I hope so. We have a few questions about it, so maybe one of us will hit it. I don't know if it's this first one, but maybe we'll hit it.

One of mine, I think, might know. I don't know. Okay, good. I'm being very. I have hubris right now. I had hubris earlier. I have you self-identifying in the moment. Yeah.

I have fidginess right now. Yeah, I'm preparing everybody right now. Okay, good. But you first. All right. So obviously you play stew. When did you realize that Stu had become something people would still be talking about all these years later? Did it ever hit you at a certain point?

No. And has anybody ever asked you that before? No, they haven't. Oh, pretty good. First one off the bat. Okay. Period. Yeah, pretty good.

I mean, I still don't. I still not sure how we're here. Really? Yeah. I'm still not sure how this all happened. It must be surreal. Yeah. But it's not even surreal.

It's like. surreal would mean that you were like, you deeply think about. I am just, I'm like, what? That thing? Yeah, it's like weird. It's weird. It's like, I don't know, how do you explain it? It's like you're dating someone and then they become the president of the United States.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, that's so weird. We used to make out and now they're the president of the United States. Like, that's weird. Yeah. Yeah. What a scenario. Yeah.

I just pictured that really. I've seen that person at the worst and their best. Yeah. And that's what it is. I mean, it is this thing. I thought you were going to say naked. I thought you were going to.

I was going to. Yeah. I thought you would. When you went the different way, I was like, well, that was me being creepy. I thought, no, I thought that way too. My instinct was way worse. I don't know the weirdos that well, but they don't need all of me. No.

All of me. Yeah. So it is a little, it's just really strange in that. You know, you have to imagine, like, at that time when it came out, as we were making it, West Craven had made a bunch of movies. Most of them had in that time and started to flop. And it just felt like another horror movie that starred two people that were on television.

Neff Campbell and Courtney Cox. And that was never a thing. It was not, you know, people didn't cross over. You either a TV actor or film actor at that point. And I was a film actor. I'm like, why do these TV people do? doing here, this is all going to be shit. Infiltrating.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, one of the things that I was just talking to Flanagan last night, actually, I'll wait after we had a big screening. That's a really cool sentence. Yeah, but we were talking about the movie. And I said to him, the crazy thing about it, I think if you take any of those people out in terms of the casting, the movie may not work. Really?

Yeah. Yeah, I really think that Skeet is perfectly cast and Campbell's perfectly cast. Jamie Kennedy. Yeah. You know, even Earl Brown, who plays, you know, Courtney's camera guy, like, everyone along the way really works in this really crazy way. Yeah. I think if you take me out or Drew out or Henry Winkler, I mean, all kind of like comes together perfectly in a moment of synchronicity. Yeah.

That, you know, and the mask. I mean, the mask came out of nowhere. They found the mask. So perfect. It was like this little place in North Carolina. You know, the rumor, the legend is that he saw it on a tech scout. I don't think that's true, personally. Interesting.

Yeah. I've even heard that before. Yeah. He got, what I remember, we were shooting in Santa Rosa outside the high school, and we were talking about the mask because he was showing us, I think, like, a cut of the opening sequence with Drew. And... Such a good sequence. It's incredible sequence.

It's so good. For multiple reasons, which I'm happy to talk about. But he was like, I think that they were going to shut down the movie. So they were going to shut down the movie because they weren't sure about it. And then they rushed, it shot that sequence, opening sequence, and then sent it to Miramax. And they kept the movie alive. Oh, wow. Because they were going to shut it down.

Because they're like, we don't think this works. That's crazy. Can you imagine? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a parallel universe. Yeah.

That would be a butterfly effect. Yeah, absolutely. That would be bad, I think. But that was, opening sequence is so crazy because Drew Barrymore was one of the biggest stars in the world. You think she's gonna be the... She's on the post-stained. Yeah.

Like, front and center. And they murder her, like one of the most brutal, brilliant openings of film ever. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they kill her to do. Like, where are we going from here? And now, you're like, I have no idea what's going to happen next. And it was also, the movie was self-referential.

the time when movies were trying to be timeless. Yeah. Because they wanted, because there was no such DVDs and VHS were just coming around. Yeah. And before that, before this media, you would try to make a movie timeless because you wanted to play again on TV because that's when you got paid again. Yeah. So people are like, don't reference anything. Don't make it modern because we wanted to live.

So if they show it in 10 years on Channel 4, it will still work. The movie will still be relevant. But this is like so 1990. But Kevin Williamson came along. I was like, I'm going to flip the script. Yeah. I'm going to be so 90s. It's kind of crazy.

I loved it. So yeah, so I don't really, I have, it's like having your ex-girlfriend be the president. I love that. I think that's the best, yeah. Yeah, I think that's the best way to look at. What do you think Stu, I'm very curious about this, what do you think Stu wanted out of that friendship with Billy?

Do you think he looked at the friendship with Billy the same way that Billy lived in? I don't really. It's not something. You know, it's funny. I never, never been asked that. Hey, two in a row. All right. I don't really think that way.

Yeah. Because he's not real. Do you know he's not real? So you don't think about that kind of, I don't. He's not real. He's not real. So we're not all going to die today? Is not either.

I do have one Scooby-Doo question. You just ruined everything for everyone. You definitely ruined my husband's life. It's the second time we end our friendship. Yeah. So that's that. Damn. Morbid.

Two strikes. I don't really think, I mean, it's like, I don't know. I mean, I can make something up. Yeah. No, I'd rather just be honest. Yeah, it's also like, just so we're clear, it's 30 years ago. It's like, what was your first kiss like when you were 12?

I don't know. I guess it was good. It's true. We're 12 very young. That's very. But like, I think it was 12. I remember my first kiss. Like, I was 12 or 13.

Were you 12? But it was like a. To third dare. Just a huge. Not like a makeout. Oh, yeah. I remember in. I was like 16.

Eighth grade. That is eighth grade. Mine was summer going into seventh grade. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was so good. It was tough. Yeah.

Did you see that face? Hey, you judged me. You said 12. You're a slut. I know, here we come. Here is the word. You're untidy. The word of this episode is slut.

You're untidy. You're an untidy gal. You're a mess. Untitio is a great way. Instead of using. Yeah, you are so. You're so untidy. You're untidy with your makeouts.

How did we get you? An unkempt bitch over here. Sloppiness. Yeah. So. I almost went really crass. You should. And I want you to know tonight when I go home and I lay my head on the pillow.

You're going to congratulate. I'm going to say you did good today. Because you almost went too far. All right. I'm proud of you. Too far. I don't know where you were going to go. Mr.

violence would have stepped. We don't. We'll see you, Mr. Biles. I'm literally changing your name in my phone. We don't get offended easily here. We have one editor that we have that isn't in the room with us. They are constantly like, John, I'm so sorry that we just said that. I met him. I've only met him in person once.

What? Are you talking about it? How do you not have a friendship with your editor? Well, we have like a friendship via the microphone, but I don't even know where he lives. What? But he came to an event. Is he going to edit this? No.

He edits a different podcast. Yeah. We have a different podcast. How many podcasts you have? Three. Jesus. Yeah. I was like, how many do we have?

I know, I was like... Which one do you like the best? Honestly, they're all like... Because they're all different reasons. Yeah. Yeah. What are the other two pitches? One is called Scream and we recap horror movies and kind of just like discuss them.

Yeah. And then one is called The Rewatcher and we rewatch shows and discuss them. We did Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We're doing true blood right now. Did you do the whole series? Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah.

Yeah. Got rough in the out. That was brutal. True blood is fun as hell, man. True blood is great. That's just bad shit crazy. Yeah, have you seen that? Mm-mm.

Please watch it. And then listen. I will never watch. It's so fun. I like that you were honest. So you're like, I'm not going to do that. I mean, I respect that, but it's really fun. Never.

I haven't, I'm not really. It's shocking how many shows I have not watched. I mean, same. That makes sense, though, because it's got to be, is it tough for you to watch shows? I just don't like it. I just don't like it. It's like a cook doesn't want to come home and cook. That's what I mean, right.

What about Widows Bay? Have you watched Widows Bay? I do. I sort of like modern shows. One of my favorite things to do because I travel so much is I love having a show to share with my wife. Yeah. And we're empty nestress. And like together, like we'll sit there and watch, like we're watching lying this right now.

Oh, my God. And I am, I fucking love it. And I'm like, but I really think I love the two of us hanging out and like going, let's do another one. Yeah, I love them. I really love it. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my favorite pastimes is watching TV with my husband.

Yeah. They watch a lot of reality TV. I don't do that. See where in a spot? No, no, it's not that. I just, I don't have the patience for people being. There is no show that people are brutal or rude or bitches and I just, I can't. I love it.

I get too angry. It's like being at the zoo. Oh, God. Yeah. There was housewives here today and I literally almost lost my shit. Really? Yeah. My wife loves them all.

Oh, I got to talk to her. Yeah. Yeah, she'll, she would love to come in. Oh, yeah. She would hate it. She would not love it. She would not be, she would not be able. She would not like this.

We wouldn't have to record. We could just hang out and watch this while. Yeah, you could just chat. Cool, cool. Come to my house. You guys are always welcome to come from here. Thank you. When you come out to San Diego to do San Diego Comic Con,

which we're doing next year. Yes. We've already announced. Come out, hang out. Okay. Yeah. All right. We're just going to show over at your door and be like, you invited us.

You don't fucking scare me. He's like, I invited you. Yeah, I literally invited. If I didn't like you, I don't know your full name. That might be a problem. I actually don't. But come to my house. What if we look vaguely different and we're like, we're Elena Nash?

Then you said we could stay with you. I'll be like, who? Yeah, exactly. See? See? Yeah. All right, where are we? I'll scream.

All right, where are we? So I think we finished her. Did you just get that tattoo? It's more recent. I think I got this. Was that one? Six months ago. It was the same time as the ghost.

By the way, that's new. Yeah. And why do you have a fucking pumpkin on your arm? Because I have pumpkins. You love Halloween. I have a ghost too. Yeah, you got the ghost when I got the perfume bottle. It's in a weird spot.

It's really in a weird spot for me. I don't know if I can turn that way. Is that weirder? No. I'm dead. We go to tattoo artists that are identical twins. In Salem. Massachusetts.

Is that kind of weird of us? You two are strange. Yeah, and unusual? I don't know. The pumpkins. Yeah. A choice. Yeah.

I love Halloween. I have a witch. Yeah. Yeah, she's a full-blown witch. I have a witch right here. Oh, you do? She's riding a broomstick. Oh, my God.

You're very witchy. Yeah. I think we are. You as well? I have a witch. Who's that? Is that a witch? Her name is Esme.

Yeah, she's just a gal. Yeah. Very punk rock. Thank you. Yeah, punk rock witches. Hell yeah. We've been talking for four hours already. But you're having fun.

Yeah, I'm loving every second of it. I'm worried about your capacity for editing down. That's his job. Okay. Yeah. Our Jack the Ripper series was 72 pages long of notes. It was eight hours of content. Yeah.

We didn't film it one day though. No. Yeah. All right, scream, you know. But scream. As long as you're still here. Yeah. Still here.

Okay. So another one. I don't know if you're going to have the same answer, though. Okay. Now that you said that. Do you think? Oh, yeah. Did I finish that whole thought?

I think you did. I don't remember where we were. I'm really out of this. Because I was like, I don't really think, like, think about their friendship. Do you know why? Yeah. Do you think about their friendship?

Oh, because he's not real. I mean, maybe in that moment I did, I think he's got that, you know, I'm far too sensitive or whatever. And then definitely, you know, listen, people are like, were they gay. People call us the first husbands of war. I don't think they were. They weren't. And that was never discussed.

No. But we do say we're that we're, they're gay characters. The reason we say that is that, You know, there's a kid out there right now struggling with who they are. And there are so many kids out there that identify with these characters. For sure. And while these characters are just a character we did, there are people that, you know, have these characters tattooed on their face.

Our face is on their body. Maybe they do have. You know, there's all kinds of, like, that relationship. And if some kids out there is struggling with their own identity and who they are, and if for some reason, us calling ourselves the first husbands of horror makes an impact, it makes them feel seen and empowers them,

then we're the fucking first... Hell yeah. Yeah. Or whatever you want us to be. And the my favorite part is like nobody can take that away from us. No. It's our characters.

Yeah. And in the world we're living in right now, like we could use a little more like, I see you gay kid, we love you. I love that. Yeah. I love that a lot. Yeah.

And I loved Billy and Stu's relationship. Yeah, it was good. I mean... I always thought it was like very, like I was like, yeah. Like, friends should be like that. Yeah. We should definitely murder together.

Yeah, obviously. Why wouldn't they? Yeah. Of course. Like, why are more people do? You're not out there burying the body. It's called a ride or die. Yeah.

Exactly. Hello. Well, it was like, I think his people will, people will always like harp on like how physical they were with each other. Yeah, yeah. But I love that part of it. That's funny. That was all me.

I believe that. I mean, we've seen that here today. Yeah, yeah. I am like, literally. Your touchy-feely person. And I don't think that I was really, I mean, just natural. I'm like sitting on his shot.

Yeah, it's weird. It feels right. It's probably in your astrological chart, too. I'll look at it. Touchy? Yeah. It's nice to be pet. What do you need for me to give, to get a reading?

Your birth time and where you were born. I'm on it. All right, cool. Get it. Get it and bring it to us. Yeah. So I think the other ones for scream, you've probably been asked before. So we're going to move on.

Yeah, another one. Five nights at Freddy's. You want to do a speed round? We're going to do, what, for screen? Yeah, yeah. Speed round. I'm scared. I don't know if we have a speed round.

Well, we don't. You're saying like, you have other questions. Yeah. Yeah, we have other questions. You want to ask the scream questions? Yeah, we can do one more. Go for it. I want to know when you first read for the part, did you get something about Stu that wasn't

necessarily written on the page? No. I read for, you what? I said outside of being touchy-feely. Outside of being touchy-feely. Every time we do that, I'm going to. I appreciate it. I originally read for Billy.

Oh, I didn't know that. And the casting director was like, you know, West Craven's coming back in like two hours. I would like you'd read this. Really? Yeah. They're like, you're never going to make out with Neff Campbell.

They said that to you? No. Oh. I was like, what? I was like, that's mean. Cut too. We did. I was just going to say jokes like that.

But I think, yes. But I read like two hours later in the room, West Craven was like, I'd like you to come do the movie. Hell yeah. So you sort of gave me the part in the room. So you think you just figured it out like on the spot? Yeah, I think that it was,

I was in that moment. and you watched the film full of energy. Yeah. I was like sort of, you know, there was nothing little about the role for me. And whatever he saw in that reading, he responded to, I don't know. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah.

I love it. I think you're the perfect stew. I can't picture anybody else playing Stu. And I can't picture you playing Billy, though. No, I don't need. I mean, listen, that was a totally, that was not me. Yeah. Like I said, you pull any of us out.

I think the whole thing falls apart. Yeah. Now I can kind of see that even better. Yeah. All right, five nights at Freddy. Yeah, five nights of Freddy's. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's such a fun one. Yeah. Okay. So do you think William Afton, and I don't know if you think this way now. Yeah, I don't. Do you think he's not real?

All right, so let me go on to this one. No, we're going to ask. Well, I was going to say, do you think he believes he's evil? No, I don't believe anyone. And in the history of films, believes they're evil. I like that. I feel like everyone has a, you have to. No, but you can't act on an instinct that's like,

I'm just going to hurt people. I mean, you can say, you know, Darth Vader has a reason for destroying the universe or like for running the universe, right? Yeah. And like everyone has a reason. It doesn't mean that they're, you know, good reasons are justified.

Yeah. But you have to believe in the reason. Yeah. I mean, Billy said it's scarier when there's no motive. Yeah, but there's always a motive. Yeah, because your mom's a war. Even Billy had a motive, I was going to say. But he's like, his mother, you know, your mother was a slut.

Yeah, it was an unkempt. She was unkempt. Yeah, she was untidy. She was not clean. She was not clean. She had a very slutty house. A very slutty house was so slutty. We've all been there.

So you're a dad. We were talking about that. Yes. Is it hard? Because obviously in Five Nights at Freddy. Yeah. You're not super nice to kids. You kill him.

Yeah, but there's a reason. Is that hard, though? Yeah. Is that hard? Not really. You said it's so convincing. Really? I don't know why it does it.

I think that that's in the third movie. Look, I think that he stops it. I don't know why he kills the kids. Because he's a bad guy. The reality is that I said to Scott. I'm like, why? When I got the job, right, I was like, look, there are, multiple games.

There are a crazy amount of books. There's fan fiction. Lots of lore. Don't read the fan fiction. Oh, God. Fan fiction is a lot. It gets weird.

And I was like, what do you want me to dig into? How do I create this character so that I can best represent for the fans what you've built? It's like, just play the first game. There you go. Just play the first game. All right.

I'll send you a bunch of playthrus. And that's the crazy thing about that game is that kids found people playing the game as interesting as playing the game. They were too scared to play the game, so they would watch Matt Pat play. They would watch these streamers play the game,

and that's what gave them a separation that they could then enjoy. And then all the legend and all the lore was born out of these theories, and Scott never came out to correct it. So then it became a fight as to whose theory would make the most sense, and then you became aligned with stuff,

and then you became tribal, and then you became a part of the community. Do you know what I mean? That's what it feels like to me. Yeah. And, you know, I got, I had this phone call. I've told the story before, but I got a phone call from my agent saying, or my manager saying, hey, they want you, for this part, you have the offer if you're interested,

they want you to go sit down with the director. And if it goes, well, the offer's yours. I'm like, oh, that sounds. And I was literally like, well, that means the movie's terrible. Like, no, it's a pretty big movie. I'm like, okay, well, let's look at it. And, you know, in the script, I had the part of yellow rabbit, the yellow rabbit. Okay.

And I'm like, a yellow rabbit is a crazy name? Am I like a spy? Yeah, like an assassin? Like, what is this incredible character going to be? They're like, no, you're literally. And I literally am like, you know, flipping through the script. And I'm like, yellow rabbits on like five pages. And I'm like, oh.

Like, God damn. It's just a shitty little part. And I was like, I read it and I'm like, and I literally call my manager. I'm like, it doesn't make any sense. I don't want to do five lines. And the lines are, come here. Like, I want to kill you.

Like, it made no sense. I'm like, I don't want this part. Why do you need me for this? And so I went to her and I'm like, hey, listen, you are lovely. Her name's Emma and Tammy. She's a lovely person. I was like, I don't know. Why me?

I mean, you've seen me, I've been around for a long time. Why are you hiring me for a guy for five lines? It doesn't make sense. And she's like, well, he's five lines in this. But he is the Voldemort of this universe. And we want to make three movies. So by timing to the third movie, you're a big part. I'm like, you have my attention.

Like a sequels? We're talking sequels? And I'm interested. And I went home and I said, yeah. And I was talking to my wife in the kitchen. and my middle kid is, you know, in the other room. And this ace is in the other room. And I'm talking about it.

And I said, yeah, I'm, I just went in and met. I think I'm going to do this movie. It's called Five Nights of Freddy's. And my kid's like, what are you talking about? And like, what are you talking about? I'm like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? What are you talking about?

Who is it? I'm like, I don't know, the yellow rabbit. And like, I don't know what that is. And I'm like, oh, that sucks. Like that my agent lied to me. Yeah. And I'm like, oh. And so I'm like, yeah.

And like, it's a movie. And my kid was like, wow, it's crazy. And then my wife's like, we're talking like 20 minutes later. And like, my wife's like, wait, why do they call him William Afton? And you hear my kid screaming down the stairs. Being like, wait. Oh my God. And William Afton is this iconic character in the whole show.

That's the coolest thing too. Yeah, it's pretty fun. That your kid was that excited. Yeah, that was super fun. That must be the coolest part. Yeah. He's being like, look at the whole point. me being cool.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's that thing where you're like super fun. I was like, cool, whatever. I'm like, hell yeah. And it's a $30 million that made movie that made $300 million. That's insane. Oh, yeah.

It's insane. It's crazy, crazy hit. So cool. Yeah. And I'm like, that fan base, they're really sweet to me. And they really love that. Yeah, yeah. They're really great.

And the second movie, I have a really great scene. But again, I'm barely in the film. That's so funny. That is really funny. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because my girls have seen like little, like they haven't seen it. They've just seen like, you know, trailers that have gone on or anything like that and they want to see it so bad.

I'm like, you're 10. Like, you'll never sleep again. I know. No, but one of them is being ghost face for Halloween, has never seen screen. It's funny, right? But just like, is so interested in, like when I told her. There's a total removal. I don't think of most, like, most people haven't seen the first movie.

That's crazy to me. That's insane to me. Because they're like, I'll just pick it up in seven. No, that's crazy to me. No, you absolutely. I know, it's funny, right? That's diabolical. It doesn't make sense when I pop on.

Yeah, you would have no idea. Yeah. When I told her we were coming here today, I was like, we're going to sit down with ghost face. And she was like, are you getting it? She was like, well, I am ghost face. She was like, tell him I'm being ghost first for Halloween. Does he look like this? Is his face bedazzled?

Her face bedazzled? Pink and bedazzled. Yeah, of course. Now, are you someone because you're a dad again? Can you watch things with kids in it, like getting hurt or horror movies with kids? with kids because I can't. When you watched Carrie. Your kids are older now, so I don't know if that

changes. I'm hoping it does. I mean, look, I have a hard time watching social media. Sometimes the kids getting hurt and the sort of like the things that people put on the internet are crazy to me. Yeah, same. I hate social. I don't think it's really crying.

I'm super emotionally available. We've already, like, so I'm like, but movies don't bother. I mean, again, I've been doing them for so long. Yeah. You know the behind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not really my thing. Yeah, that makes sense.

It doesn't really freak me out. Yeah. I'm hoping that I can get over it. Yeah. Because I cannot watch any horror movie that has children in it since I've become a mom. I can't, since you had kids. Can't do it. Yeah.

I get like way too invested in it. What about autopsies on babies, kids? I had to do that, and it was awful. Is it? Yeah. You were unable at that moment. I was able to do it because I just looked at it. It's like, I got to do this and I can't just leave this room and leave this child unattended.

And at least you're getting answer. And I'm getting answers for somebody, but it was really hard. Is it easy to discern when you get in there to understand how they, what is the cause of the death? Sometimes it's, sometimes it's obvious. And then sometimes it's not at all. Sometimes you, it's somebody who looks like they're sleeping and it doesn't look like anything has happened. And you open them up and it still doesn't look like anything has happened. And then where do you start?

Like, how do you, like, I think that if you're a shoemaker, there's somebody teaching you how to make a, issue. Yeah. Like, an autopsy, like, how are you deducing? Yeah. Who teaches you, like, sort of like, these are the tricks of the train? Well, the first thing you do is you take out the organ block. So it's, you literally have to.

What's the organ block? Everyone knows what the organ block is. It's literally a square. I didn't know. Okay. You literally build igloos with them in Alaska. In Alaska. We're going to Alaska.

I mean, all right. And it can be a house. Yeah. And it is a yucky color. It all comes out at once. It's pucey purple. Yeah. What was it?

Poutred mob. Pudrid mob. Or a uterid mom. Yeah. We lost it. But then, yeah, but then you have all the, you have the all the organs on the table. Yeah. How does that solve the riddle?

You got to go bit by bit. There's like a process that you go through. And what are you looking for? And you take, you're going to take spinal fluid. You're going to take like bits of muscle. So you're going to take everything. pulling fluid to then run through a microscope. Yeah.

And then it's the pathologist. Or, like, toxicology. Yeah. So you're sending them off for all that stuff. But it's, you're running like through the whole bowel, the whole intestine. That's fun. And sounds like it. It doesn't.

It's not fun. No. That was starting. What is the thing they sound? People end up getting rid of stuff when they died. Do they let that go? For the most part. Not always.

It's not always all gone. Nope. And when you first start working at a morgue, that's your job. This is the worst podcast ever. I really want to leave his shit. It keeps coming right back around. Oh, my God. I've seen a couple dead people and I didn't like it.

Yeah, it's not, it's not great. I don't love seeing her dead body. No, and I love the people. Oh, see that? And that's even worse. It's much worse. I don't love an open casket situation. No.

My mom used to kiss the dead when they were little. That was like a thing. Catholic, yeah. And they would have their mouths wired shut and she'd have to go down and kiss them. Oh, my God. Yeah, my mom, that's what killed Catholicism for one. That's salad. That doesn't seem like that's what Jesus wants.

No, that's pretty valid. Jesus should not ask for this. Kiss her. Kiss her. Kiss her. Kiss that dead person. Jesus is sitting over you. Kiss the, kiss the, kiss the dead.

Don't get us started. That gets weird. We could go into a whole slew of all that of religious. There definitely is when you start talking about dead and naked bodies, you're like, what are the dicks like? I mean, you've got, like, that has to be. You've got, I mean... No, nudity, really? You don't think about nudity?

I mean, I literally would be like, booze. I saw a lot of naked people. Yes. I mean, you don't ever cut anyone open with, like, their underwear on. No. It's true. No, they're not. They're always...

You wouldn't be interested at all in what the bits and bobbles look like? I mean, I've cut into everything there is to cut into... Yeah, you've cut into, like, a square. Why would you ever cut into a penis? Testicular cancer. Yeah, well, I've definitely cut into... to testicles. She went home and told her husband that right away.

I was like they're very delicate. Just so you know. See, you understand. Finally, somebody understands. But she and we also think you guys are overreacting and you get kicked. Getting punched in the boob hurts much worse, I promise. No way. Absolutely.

Can you back this up as a, as a scientist? As a scientist, as somebody who's seen the fragility of nuts? I know. I can't, I cannot testify to the pain level. I can testify. I can testicle by. To how delicate they are. Well, I assure you, you weirdos.

We're now debating. We each came with points to say. I'm actually pretty angry right now. Oh, no. I don't think you understand me. Maybe I don't. Maybe we don't understand each other. Punch me in the boob.

And I'll kick you in the nuts. And let's see which hurts worse. Well, that's going to be tough. That's hard. You'd have to go. Now we're getting very exposed. I was the only one excited to see dead people's bodies. It's true.

Do you want to talk about 13 ghosts? By way, speaking of naked people. He said no. By wait, no, 13 ghosts, there's a naked woman more around. And I really liked looking at her. I bet you did. I think everybody did. Yeah, she was gorgeous.

She was gorgeous. We've been here for too long. We bring it out near. We're nearing the end. We are? Yeah. There's a way out for you. 13 ghosts.

No, she was. That is not my favorite goes. She was the perfect person to completely naked. Yeah. The fallen princess? Is that what it is?

Is that what it is? I will tell you, that movie, I always say this is terrible. But I say that... I'm like you were saying the movie is terrible. I am.

That's my joke. My joke is that movie's terrible. I actually don't think the movie's terrible. I love that movie. I love that movie. It's super fun. And that movie is one of those movies that

In my life, I'm like, I feel like I should be more successful in Hollywood than I am. Yeah. I feel like I should have better, more shots and hire like on the call sheet and been number one every now and then. Yeah. And I think it's because Hollywood doesn't understand how popular Scooby-Doo is, how popular 13 ghosts is, how popular SLC punk is. Yeah. They don't, on the man on the street is like those movies are hugely successful. Yeah.

Yeah. But in Hollywood terms, they're like, they don't think about it. like alien. That's so weird. Yeah. That is weird. Why do you think that is? It's respect. They don't respect for the longest time.

Like when I did a majority of the growth I had in this industry when I was younger, nobody's, nobody would respect 13 ghosts, right? I mean, Scream, they respect it because they did box office, but skeet popped. Jamie had a moment where he went off to do multiple movies. Yep. And Neb obviously popped. Yep. And I just didn't pop. And everyone was like, Scream, change your life.

Like, it didn't. That's crazy. It didn't. It didn't change my life. That really is crazy. Nothing changed my life. Damn. For the longest time.

What finally did? I mean, Five Nights at Freddy's has been a huge moment in my life because, like, why am I having this moment of, like, resurgence? Yeah. Two things, I think, five nights of Freddy's. And then I do a lot of

Yeah. I think that once people see me the convention or go to a Q&A, like I feel like I make friends. And I think people like, oh, I like him. Yeah. And I think that that makes a difference. Starts to generate attention, but I don't know. Yeah. I think that makes sense.

I think so. Yeah. How many times, can we ask the editor account how many times my head goes back and forth? Yeah. I feel like my shit is going to snap off. My head. You've been doing it a while. Yeah.

In the middle, the problem is that in the middle is Mr. Violence, and he just eyeballing me like he's going to punch me in the mouth. You never know. We're just seeing like the side of my face because I'm just like, the middle. You know you get that shot. Oh, I do get that shot. Yeah, you get a full-on shot. All right, good. So which of the 13 ghosts is scariest to you?

There's a lot of scary ones. I love the jackal. Me too. But none of them are scary to me. None of them. You know none of them are real. I know that. She's like, God damn, and I know.

Don't ruin it. What is he thinking when he's right behind Billy? You have to be. When you were running from the jackal, was he fast? He looked fast. You were ruining this. I know. I'm really not sorry.

You're so creative. You're so creative. How are you not in this with me? I am not with you. Be with me here. You know, it's funny. You start not holding him. I know.

When you see them in. How are we falling so far? Can we switch? No. I can't. No, I can't. Are we to fight? I don't.

What happens? You better make up. We have 20 minutes left. What's going on? Are you sweating now? It is a little hot. It is pretty hot in here. Hey, weirdos.

I just want you to know something. They can't afford air conditioning. Send money now. Oh, my God. We can't afford it. I do. I'm sweating. Oh, check that out.

Look at that, dude. What is that? It's a seven. Okay. I thought it was a piece sign. Gang, gang, gang. Throwing up signs at the end of this. Yes, it's not fucking real.

Okay, but if you... But it's not real. I'm going to pee my pants. It's literally, just so you know, it's a glass house that's a portal to hell. Which part of that sounds like a good fucking idea? Which part of that's real? We're in a fight. Tony Shaloo is not actually in the house.

What are we talking about? We are in a fight, Matthew. You actually just ruined her life. You ruined her life. You don't think the juggernaut would be scary if it was real? If it was real. Sure. But it's not.

He can't put himself there, it seems. He can't put himself there. It's real. Somebody help me. Somewhere in America right now, I'm still in this fucking studio. Trying to explain to them the difference between real and not real. I won't hear it. I won't hear it.

That is clear. I will not. have problems. Are you in a relationship? Who is your husband? Are you gay? What's happening? Who are you? Who partners this person? He's a great man.

He is. Did you just ask who would marry him? I don't, yes. Why is she gay? I know. I'm just curious. I'm actually crying. I literally said, I said, are you married? But then I didn't want to sound like I assumed a man.

It doesn't sound that way, but it is a man. It is a man. He's a cis man. Is he okay? He is great. He puts up with it. He's hilarious. But sometimes we share a look.

Yeah. We know. We know her. It's true. Yeah. And we love her. And I thought you knew me. I know.

I feel like not. I didn't know. I thought you guys are sharing a look. I'm never coming back. I'm never coming back. That's upsetting. Never coming back now. We started off really strong.

Oh, look. It's coming back. By the way, she's sweating. I know. It's. really honest. I'm so sorry. I am in an oven right now.

I have a lot of hair. They have cut this down. What you're seeing is the result of 13 hours of just talking. All right. This is nobody's watching this fucking show. They are. The weirdos are. Oh my god.

You know this. You underestimate one how much people love you and two, quite frankly, how much they love us. They, let's be honest. Let's be. Wait, who am I again this episode? You're Josh Hartnett. They tuned in for Josh Hartman. And that's who you are today.

When they saw me, they're like, oh. He doesn't have abs. Legally, can we name this an interview with Josh Hartn? You have a Josh Hartnett? Is that legal? Actually, people keep thinking that we are having you on the show. Every time we are like, oh, we have a fun guest. They're like Matthew Lillard.

They just assume that you're coming. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I'm so glad I said yes to this podcast. Oh, I'm so glad that you did. I don't know. We're so glad that you don't regret it in the middle.

Also, like, I'm glad you guys came in. Like, we've never had the same fun if you were doing it. Zoom just doesn't have the same energy. I'm glad you came in. Thank you for coming in. Thank you for coming in. Thank you for reconnecting with me. Thank you for coming in.

She's going to be upset with me on the way home if you keep this up. Mr. Violence, I wish you weren't here. Oh, my God. I'm kidding. It's not, sometimes my jokes go too far. No, they're actually very funny. Let's go curve. Yeah.

How did people ever ask you about the curve? Never once. Never once. No, he said we're really weird for it. I love that. It's a wild movie. Yeah. Yeah, why do you say that?

She showed me 12 minutes of it the other day. You didn't watch the movie? Not the full movie. She's watched the full movie, so maybe you guys can reconnect on this. And maybe now we're in a fight. Why do you make me so sad? I'm so sorry. I love that you'll watch reality TV, but not Matthew Lernerd in the Curve.

In the Curve? You know, I want to finish watching it, actually. It's actually fun. It is fun. So your character, Tim, is horrific. Like really dark. He has motivations. But he's really dark.

Yeah, he needs an A. Only for one semester, though. Yeah, but still, like, listen. Damn. It's important. He needs a 4.0. Would you kill your roommate for a 4.0? I'd kill my roommate for a 2.75.

Damn? Yes. It's passing. Damn. That's what I graduated with. C's get degrees. I feel weird being next to you now. Maybe we won't stay at your house when we're in California.

Because we'll be your roommates. True crime. True crime. Has come in full circle. Shaggy. That would be horrible. I promise you, I won't kill you both. Thank you.

He only looked me in the eyes when he said that. He only looked me in the eyes. You couldn't. No, I would never. You couldn't. I would never. All right. Oh, God.

Yeah. She's hell of scrappy. I would never, can we change something immediately? Yeah. I don't like this. I don't like where we got to. Hey. We're going to name this.

Matthew Lillard is a real murderer. There's nothing you can do about it. I think he could probably sue us for defamation. I have signed nothing. Maybe we should have you sign something before you go. Just real quick. All right. All right. So the curve.

My question was basically. that Tim is a really dark character. Were you looking for specific characters around that time that are, like, darker than Stu was even? I think it's important to point. I like pointing this out, like, 99% of my career has been based on opportunities that come that have to say yes, to feed my kids.

I don't make enough money to sort of be like, yes, I'm not working for three years after that. Yes, I'm not working. Like, I don't have that kind of luxury. I think that when people see people that are quote-unquote famous, or you recognize, you know, so many of us are, like, you know, number five or six or seven on the call sheet.

And our industry, especially now, is more interested in making a higher margin than they are making a good movie. Yeah. That's so strange. And what that means is, like, the people that aren't green lighting the movie are not paid. Mm-hmm.

In fact, very famously, you know, I know that Keanu Reeves gives a portion of his money to the other sort of character actors so that he can work with great actors, because I won't work for scale 10, you know, and 99% of the time, unless it's Mike Flanagan calling saying, I need a favor, right? So, yeah, so it's a...

When this movie came around, it was like my third movie or the fourth movie or... No, I had done scream. It was like 98, I think, right? I think you're right. I don't know if scream had come out. I don't know. It was right before SLC point.

Yeah, because Scream was... Yeah, because Scream was... 96 and I think this was 98 I want to say. Maybe tears? Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, Scream's a great example. People don't know this.

I don't talk about that much, but I shot the, huh? But you feel safe here? I do. I actually do. And I want the, if I'm going to tell anyone, I'd rather tell you. Okay. But Scream, like we worked for four weeks. I get paid $5,000 a week.

Wow. So that's, by the way, if you have paid $5,000 a week your entire year, to a pretty good year. It's a pretty good. You're making a lot of money. Yeah. But if you don't then work for another, you know, eight months, nine months,

that's not that much money. And you are paid as if you're making $5,000 a year. So the tax bracket you're in the top tax market. You have an agent that takes 10% before taxes. 10% as a manager that takes before gross. So you're making, you know, $5,000 an episode. You're probably making $2,200 bucks. Damn.

And then you have to live on that. And the movie then goes on to make billion dollars worldwide. Right. And I have gotten paid, you know, four, five, you know. That's crazy. You make residuals, but residuals aren't crazy. Yeah. And it's based on what you make the first time around.

Oh, wow. So this idea of, like, people are like, you know, you're rich. You're in movies. I'm like, that's not in case. You're like, actually. In any way, shape, or form. Now, I've definitely had movies where I have. been paid, which have given me a comfort of life that I totally acknowledge, and I'm very

privileged. But the reality is that majority of my life has been stuck in this realm of, I don't know how I'm going to make it. Yeah. You know, at one point, my wife and I sold our house, sold our cars, and went back to, I fired my agent, my lawyer, and my manager and three consecutive phone calls. Damn. And I was like, I have to reset.

Yeah. And the reason I'd reset is because I thought I was the huge. shit and the reality was I was not. I thought I was a star. I was not. I thought I would deserve big movies. And I'm like, oh, I may never get another job ever. And at that point, I had kids and I was like, well, if this is the case, what am I going to do?

Yeah. Like, how am I actually going to feed my kids? And my father-in-law, who I adore at that point, said, you know, if you sold pharmaceuticals, you'd make a lot of money because you're really. charming. And I was like, I've done fucking 30 movies. You're like, what? I'm not going to like, hey, Viagra. Like, I'm like,

I'm not going to, you know, natural progression. Yeah, it's also like, it's complete, I would be doing what I'm doing no matter what. Whether I'm making money or not. And I was like, oh, but if that's the case, then if I don't get a chance to ever do another movie, then what am I going to do? And I was like, oh, I'm going to sell everything. We still live in the house we bought. Our mortgage is

$1,600 a month. My wife went back to work. I went back to work. I drove a Prius for 10 years. Hell yeah. And it's a great car. It's an amazing car. And I love driving the Prius.

And every time people are like, why are you driving a Prius? I'm like, because I have no money. And that was the thing. It's like, people like, why are you selling your house? And my wife and I would, my wife really had a hard time with it. Because we had this beautiful house. We loved our house. But I'm like, I can't live like this any longer.

Because it's all bullshit. Right. It's all smoke and mirrors. Yeah. And I would go around and people were like, why did you guys move? I'm like, because I can't afford it. I'm not working. And the more I let go of the shame of struggling, the more I became confident in who I was as a man, as a person.

And then I could say to my kids, yeah, we sold the house because we didn't have the money. We just changed the way we live. And now I'm teaching acting. Yeah. And I was like, I'll just make money as a teacher the rest of my life. And then along comes the descendants with George Clooney. the single greatest role in the history of cinema

because I steal George Clooney's wife and never happens it happens but it happened apparently it didn't according to you actually because it was fake and you know that's

it actually didn't happen because it was fake according to you it works against me the students too I was like wait I was really proud of you for you know

that whole thing was like amazing and changed everything I love that And we do that a lot. Oh my God. Nobody ever calls us out for it, but we do it a lot. A bunch of times.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, shit. It happens a lot. Yeah. Well, and also you taught your kids to adapt. Yes. That, like, you should, that you can adapt.

Yeah. And it's funny because I have two artists, two of my three kids are artists. And our rule in our house is that we pay for college and happy to pay for college. And when we're done paying for your life. Oh, a lot. You have to, you're on your own. That's super. Yeah.

You're always welcome here. We love you. Yeah. This is your home. Like you have a safety net. Mm-hmm. But this really sucks, but you're on your own. Yeah.

And it's hard because my oldest is really an artist and she's having a hard time working three jobs. Wow. And affording to live in L.A. Yeah. And then doing art on top of it. It's like almost impossible. Yeah. But that's the...

It's character building. That's the... I mean, that's the reality. Yeah. Yeah. Well, should we end, we have a minute. Should we end on, would you rather? We'll go rapid fire.

Rapid fire, would you rather? All right. You're going to have to get creative here, though. I was going to say, we know it's not real. Okay, yeah. I got you. Would you rather be trapped in Stumacher's house with ghost-faced or trapped in you in high school on Carrie's prom night?

I would rather be, Carrie's prom night because it's the culmination of her, like, winning the day, and I'd rather be a part of that than some teenage slasher's wet fantasy. Hell yeah. I love that. Great answer. Yeah. If I'm going to be carnage, I want to be in the name of serving a girl who's, like,

rising up into a badass superhero. Having a real good for her moment. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I like that a lot. Would you rather never act again or only play one character for the rest of your career? Never act again. Damn. I feel like you just told us that.

Yeah, I was going to say that kind of came right from that. But I would then pivot to being like a night. Evil Times or like a fight choreographer or like a teacher. Like I would find something to do, but I would never just play. I mean, I will say that, you know, the golden handcuffs of doing like a CBS show and you're like, oh, I'm making a gazillion dollars. I don't, nothing against them. There may be a come a time they do that.

But throughout, I think that would be really hard for me. Yeah, I get that. You make a lot of money, but I'm not here for the money. I'm actually, I would, like I said, it's like I said, it's like, who I am. I love to act. And if I'm not, if I can't play, if it's not fun, then I don't know if I would do well in that environment. I get that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Spend one more year in 1996 or jump ahead and see 2046. 1990s. Only because I'm terrified of what 246 is. Same. That's exactly how I feel.

Would you rather spend a night inside Freddie Fasbear's pizza or spend a night alone in the 13 ghost house? Fas bears because I play William Afton and I run those bastards. Yeah, and you didn't fare well in the other place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also that place isn't real, but Freddy's Fass Bears. Wow. He strikes again, folks.

We're still doing this. All right, rapid fire, moving on. Would you rather have to escape Ghostface with me who has a weapon but no plan? Right. Or escape with Elena who has an elaborate plan, but she lost her weapon. You get your brain on this one. I remember you're in a fight with Elaine. Yeah.

I'm going to go weapon, no plan. Weapon, no plan. I had a feeling. Gosh. I feel you do need a weapon for ghost face. I feel like that's valid. Yeah, but nobody's making it alive. So I don't want to hang with her.

I am. I'm making it out of a lot. You don't have a weapon. I have a plan. You're scrappy too. I'm scrappy and I have a plan. You have no idea. She has an autopsy technician.

Yeah. She has a weapon all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't think. Any of us for making it out. I think I'm making it out.

I can make it out with a weapon. I'll miss you guys. What kind of weapon is it? A big knife. Okay. Does that change your mind? I'll go with you. I'm still with a weapon.

Okay, cool. Loves it. Well, I'm making it out. I'll miss you guys. I love that we're breaking up now because of the weapon. Yeah. I know when it's at the end of the show too. Yeah, yeah.

All right. The last one is have, would you rather have William Afton as your roommate? Or Tim from the curve. Yeah, we're weird. From the curve. Babyset your kids. Is he already graduated? Yeah.

He'll take Tim for the Kirby. He is a 4.0. He is a 4.0. He went off to make a lot of money. He's fine. He would tell them stories that would rock their world. William Afton would kill my children and stick them in a child murder. Yes.

I mean, there's no way. Oh, wait. He's just your roommate. So you're William Afton's roommate or Tim is babysitting your kids? So you could get real meta and as William Afton, Tim, Tim, your roommate? That's true. This is the weirdest way to end this really lovely experience on morbid. Happy to hear it.

I will take whatever the audience suggests. They'll do a write-in campaign and tell me what I should do. Oh, it's a hard one. Thanks for the numbers there. Yeah, I like that. Nice. There you go. I need you to answer every single one of them.

Yeah. I like that. You guys, that was super fun. This was so fun. Thank you. When are we doing it again? I mean, obviously, we're going to be in San Diego. As soon as possible.

You'll come on the show again? Yeah. You would like to have you on again. ship next time. We'll get through it next time. I don't think we will. I think we're okay. Can we, what other, oh, you have the horror podcast.

Yeah. I like this podcast. And the rewatcher. What do we usually talk about? I want to talk about, what do you guys usually talk about? Well, we either talk about, like, true crimes. Or we talk about, like, paranormal stuff. We talk about weird history.

Okay. That's what I thought we were to end up somehow. I thought you were going to talk me through that. Whenever we have a guest on, we usually kind of make it a little more tailored toward them. But if you want to go on with a weird stuff. I don't really like true crime, but I think I would be interested. What about weird history?

Like a dancing plague. Or like bog bodies? Bog bodies? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whatever. I'm down. All right.

I like you both. We like you too. This is great. Yeah. All right. Thank you guys so much for listening to this very long podcast. They're never going to make it through. They're here.

Do you think the weirdos will complete the gauntlet that is this podcast? I think they'll ask for more. I think we literally just talked for 17 hours. Yeah, we did. And it was worth it. And they're going to want you back. No way. Yeah.

They absolutely will. I bet you they don't. I bet you this is the end of my career. How much money? Like people will be like, why aren't did Matthew Lilitho? And then we're like, ah, he did that fucking podcast as super popular and successful that everyone loves. And he bombed. No, you did not ball.

You see how fast the self-deprecation came back? Yeah. It really did. Now it's in your brain. I have this thing where I'll be. like, I'll go to an event. I'm like, what if nobody shows up? Oh, I do that.

We thought you weren't going to show up today. I have a lot of impostor theater. Well, that was because I've been literally talking since 8 a.m. No, but even before, we were like, what if he just doesn't come? We were like, what if he just ghosted us? We said, what if ghost face ghosts us?

Oh, yeah. But I didn't. But I didn't. I'm totally here. You didn't. You were here. Yeah. Hell yeah.

Yeah. By the way, I liked her, you kind of flinched. I didn't know what you were doing. We're going to pet you. I've been petting you the whole time. Next time we come back, we're getting throat tattoos. Like one big fucking ghost. Hell yeah.

Just right there. First you have to do the sign off with us. Okay, good. Ready? All right. Well, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. Weird.

Doing this thing. Weird. I was reminding you. We're going together. Period. Period.