Morbid - Charles Manson Part 1 Ya dig?

Episode Date: June 26, 2018

Charles Manson didn't exactly have a great start to life and we can prove it. Part 1 of our Manson series dives into his beginnings, from being bartered for a pitcher of beer by his own mother to partying with a Beach Boy during the Summer of Love. The seedlings of mayhem were starting to brew but no one could have predicted what this makeshift "family" eventually accomplished. Stick around for Part 2 when dirty hippie livin' takes a dark turn into manipulation and brutal murder. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm not Ash. And this is morbid. I'm Ash. I just wanted to spice it up a little this time by saying I wasn't who I am. I liked at the end when you were like, no, I'm Ash. Yeah, just so you know, in case you didn't recognize. Scurred everybody for a second there. Y'all. This is really exciting because it's going to be an Ash episode. I'm kind of nervous. Ash is taken. the brains. She's taking the bull by the horn. She's taking the hippie by the LSD. Oh, that sounds like me. That sounds a lot more like me. She's taken over. Yeah. Because this is her fave. My faith. Lil Charlie. Charlie Manson. Little Charles. But before we get to Charlie Manson,

let's just like chitter-chatter a bit bit. Let's chat. Let's have banter. Yeah. So your husband has a jungle disease. Let's just pop right in with that. Their husband's rather ill. So, interestingly enough, we're recording a little late in the week this week. It's Friday. Because we normally, we try to bust one out a little earlier, but this week has been a little weird because, as I stated, my husband has a crazy jungle virus that we may have contracted via mosquito while on a cruise. woof so it's been a week but the good news is he's feeling better today so i think he's on the end well that's good but it's not it's not fun watching your your other half be sick

and not know what it is yeah and especially when what he might be sick with sounds like an appetizer that's funny that's upsetting that's i don't i don't know i tried to come up with a witty response and then I was like, Like, you know what? You just, you're funny by yourself. You're funny. I'll leave. Yeah, you can just leave.

I'll take care of them. Yeah, whatever. No, you can't leave. I don't know enough about Charlie Vinson. I know little, but. I'm scared. This is your boy. You got this.

This is my man's, though. This is you man's. That's your man. Um, yeah, so like, nothing really that interesting happened to me this week. So maybe we should just get right into it. Yeah. I was going to talk about the traffic I sat in for like, because people were running, but it's just going to make me.

mad all over again. Fuck activities, fuck exercise. There you go. That's all I have to say. That's our, that's our official stance. Exercise. I hope Michelle Obama's not listening. I know because girl, I love you. Yeah. But she's going to be like, those morbid girls are morbidly obese. But um, maybe they should run. Maybe they should run. No, no. No, unless a murderer is chasing me, am I going to run? Full circle. There you go. All right. Okay. Let's jump into Charlie. All right. So without further ado, Charles Manson and the Manson family murders. So Charlie Manson was born in Cincinnati, Ohio on November 12th in the year of 1934.

Which sounds so long. Yeah. When I was doing everything, I was like, whoa, 1934. And he just died. Like last year, yeah, last year. Yeah. So, spoiler alert. Spoiler alert, Charlie Dad.

Charlie did. And everyone was like so happy and like I was like a little bit like sad because I wanted to like I don't know. I wanted to write him. No, I'm just kidding. You wanted to be one of those girls named like Moonbeam that goes to try to marry him when he's 84. Yes. Except as Charlie got older, he just like wore his insides on his outsides and I was like, yo boy.

He did. He was a lot. Because I'm not going to lie to you, Charlie was handsome back in the day. He could have fucking open the school bus door. and I would have hopped right the fuck on with my flower crown. A couple of his mug shots, I was like, Hey boy. Okay.

Okay, Charlie. Ocker. Okay. Ocker. Like, that's how I feel. Like, he's no TED. All right. Well, the 10 episode is over.

But we're going to live on. But I agree with you. Yeah, he was cute. Yeah, it was only when he started like wearing his crazy. And like carving bad sides and two his fucking forehead. Yeah, no good. All right. Let's get there.

So he was born to his, well, that doesn't make sense. I don't know why. He was born to his mother. He was born to his mother. That's crazy. He was born from his mom. I think that's what set him on that path. All right.

So he was born and his mom was Kathleen Maddox, who was 16 at the time. Woo. And was making her living as a sex worker. What did she know? Yeah, you know, you just got to do what you got to do, girl. It is reported that she was not really fit for motherhood, which most 16-year-old. are. No, definitely not. But that can be supported by the fact that she once tried to sell, and successfully actually, sold Charlie for a pitcher of beer. Oh my God. That story. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I didn't

have like the best mom, but she never tried to sell me for a pitcher of beer, to my knowledge. No, and you know what I can back to him? You back down. You've never been bartered for a pitcher of beer. So. And apparently his uncle had to go around and find him. later. Yeah. She actually gave him away for his beer. Oh yeah. She was just chilling with her beer. She legit. She made the transaction. Yeah. Then they just canceled it. You know what though? I wonder if that waitress like had tea or like the person who like got him in return. If she was like a normal person was like maybe I should take him as payment. That's what I'm thinking. Because I can give him a better life. Yeah. And honestly, well maybe he would have been better. Like think about that for one second.

Yeah. How different the world would be. that way. Matrice raised Charlie as home. Possibly. Because I mean, a lot of it seems like it can be attributed to his crazy ass childhood. Yeah. So basically, he did not have the most stable childhood.

No. He didn't have great role models to look up to. No, definitely not. His mom and his uncle were, like, stealing cars and robbing, like, stores left and right, like in and out of jail. Yeah. And he was along for the ride the whole time. Oh, yeah.

He was with them. And so he started stealing to you. I mean, that's what he was basically raised to do. Well, and apparently his uncle was, like, sadistic. Well, so he was, when his mom was in jail at one point, he was sent to live with his super fucking religious aunt, which there's nothing wrong with that. He was only like five or six. Yeah, he was six. And apparently, I don't know if this is truce, and I wasn't going to say it, but now I'm just like, whatever.

I read something too, so I wonder if this is sick. All right. Well, let's find out that on the first day of school. Yes, this is what I read it. Okay. Do you think this, is this true? Yeah, it is. Because I read it on like a weird side. He's, his uncle was a piece of shit.

So his uncle dressed him up like a girl. Because he was like a sensitive kid. Right. And he cried a lot. And he said if you were going to act like a cry baby. You're going to dress you up like a little girl. Which is so fucked up. That hurts my heart.

Yeah. And I don't know if he like sent him to school. I think he did. Yeah. It was the first day of kindergarten. Yeah, like a little. And also can you imagine. being the fucking teacher and you're like, wait, especially in like 1930 whenever.

Exactly. And it's not like, this kid is like, this is what I wanted to wear. It's like, you know, my uncle forced me to wear that. Yeah, like, that's awful. Like, gross. So eventually his mom gets out of jail and he's excited. And she just never really paid too much attention to him. Like, she didn't, she wasn't super maternal.

No. And she sent him to a reform school. At one point, his name was no name. by the way. What? Okay, I didn't know that. He was still one years old and he, I just had to throw this in because it's so bizarre. Yeah, I did not know that.

I did. This was like a random little tidbit that she did, his sister, his mom did start like dating a man. Yeah. Named William Manson, which is where he got his last name. And he was super, he was way older than her and they lived together at one point. He was one year old and his name was no name Manson. So she didn't name him Charlie when he was first born? He was literally no name for like a year.

I had no idea about that. Yeah. Isn't that bananas? So actually, Kaylyn Lowry from teen mom didn't name her kid for like a wicked long time too. And I was like to Pete, is that legal? You can, I mean, I'm pretty sure. I could be wrong. And I'm sure people yell at me if I am. I feel like they don't let you leave the hospital.

I thought you couldn't. But I don't know. I don't know because I remember like in a. Imagine if, like, Kailen Lowry from teen mom started angry tweeting us or something? I hope she does because why aren't you naming your child? Like, sorry. I'm pretty sure she was out of the hospital and they hadn't named him. Like, they didn't give him a name.

I don't understand that. But anyways, this is not a podcast about teen mom too. Come at me because I don't understand that. No. I didn't know that. I didn't find that anywhere. Yeah, he was no name, Manson. So that'll fuck you up.

So that'll fuck you up. Yeah. So, yeah, he was no name. and then he was Charlie and then he was stealing and then his mom went to jail and then he got dressed like a girl and it was just like really sad. So he gets sent to reform school and he's basically in and out of reform schools for like all of his adolescence. Yeah.

He did two stints in prison for driving stolen cars across state lines. Yep. Which is a felony. Yeah. So they were like pretty long steps. It's because you, yeah, it's because once you cross the state lines, it becomes a way bigger crime. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's basically what he was in and out of jail for. Well, and that's apparently, like, when he got sent to the reform schools, it was because his mom at 12 years old, when he was 12 years old, she literally went to a judge and was like, yeah, I don't want to take care of him anymore. Yeah, no, she literally, like, she didn't want him. And that's why they sent him there. And then he escaped the first one.

And ran back to her. And she rejected him again. And sent him back to the school. Like, do you know how much that that probably sent, I mean, Matt did it a massive. Oh, and he also, like, and I'm, like, not saying, like, oh, he claimed, like, I totally believe it that they, like, abuse the shit out of him in the reform school. Those schools back then were, he said that every other prison he went to was paradise compared to that place. To the schools.

Yeah. He said literally he would do any other school. Like, because they literally, like, those prison guards raped kids. Yeah. They would turn their backs while other kids raped kids. Like, they, it's fucking hell. Oh, my God. Like, so he, not only did he go to reform schools.

get rejected by his mother multiple times, but he was also being violently abused in any way you can imagine in these schools. So it's like, this dude is learning violence and rejection and abandonment. Like nature versus nurture, like perfect example. Like, what would have happened if he was born into an actual? Or given to that damn waitress. Where is that waitress? Man, I would love to know what life would be like Dude, for real. If I ever got a back-to-the-future moment, I would be like... That would be it. I want to know what Charlie is.

I'm going to that bar. I'm going to find Kathleen Madhooks. Maybe he would be, like, brilliant or something. Maybe he'd be a brilliant musician. He, okay, we'll get there. He probably would have been. Yeah. Or something.

He'd be like a fucking... Like Tom Petty. Yeah. Actually, I would, I feel like I can't compare Charlie Nancy on Tom Petty. I was about to say, I was sorry, Mr. Petty. I was like, no, no. But I see. I see what I see.

Like, he could have been like a beach. boy you know you know maybe he would have been the fourth one there are there are there three no I think there's four maybe he would have been five there might be five maybe there's 12 I don't really know he'll be the the beach boy that's off to the left he'll be the other beach boy um so yeah so by the time that he was 32 he had spent over half of his life in prison damn so that blows my mind like what is half of 32 16 sure yeah it is math so over 16 years in prison and you're 32. That's bananas.

Like what? Yeah. And when he was released from prison for the second time in 1967, he asked to stay in jail. Oh yeah. And there was a point during reform school where there was a little glimmer of his violent tendencies where he, they did catch him raping another boy with a razor to his throat. So that was. And although like I've heard it. interviews with him where he says, and I've read things too about like other these kind of schools.

Yeah. That like, I think that shit goes off. The kid, they just tend to start having sex with each other because they're all 16. You're fucking locked up and your hormones are raging. Yeah. At the point in your life where that you're really, that's the one thing you're thinking about. So it ends up happening, which whatever. That's a whole different.

It's a whole different trail to go down. Yeah. But so that's a thing. But this is not an instance of that, like consensual. anyway. This is him holding a razor to his throat. So it's like, that's a little glimmer of like, oh, that's fucked up. You know, like, that's not okay. But I wonder if, like, that had happened to him. And so in his mind, oh, and I'm sure it happened to him. Yeah. Like, I'm sure. I'm sure he wasn't just like, okay. So I think he was just being, this is what he

knew. Right. Like, this is just how he was raised. You hold a razor to their throat. Like, that is really fucked up. At least in that situation. Because later, he didn't seem to be that forceful with sex. Like, he didn't seem like he was violently raping people. No. Which we'll get to, obviously, but... Right. It's a very weird. He had, like... He had a very interesting psychology. Sexual, like, things, though. Yeah, he was very, like, psychedelic about... Yeah, he was like, everyone has sex at the one... I'm a god, you're a god, we're all gods.

Yeah. Honestly, if he didn't, like, kill people, like, his idealistic things would have been, like... He would have just been, like... He would have just been a fucking hippie. He would have been a silly hippie. Like, what are the hippies that, like, he probably would have been at the party, like, around the street that they have. every year. He would. We have... Okay. Tell. Just do tell. Real quick. We have... Had. Had. I know. I'm still not accepting it, but it's true because the TP

is gone now, so I have to accept it. Do you think that they took it with them? I'm sure they did. Like, is it a portable? I bet they did. Okay. Because they just lived that like. Let's tell our listeners what the fun we're talking about. So we have around the corner from us, when we moved into this house, we were walking our dog one night and we passed by this house with peace sign, like... Wind chimes. Wind chimes. And like... mirrors and like all this art hanging everywhere in this backyard and in the center like this big giant tepee and I mean huge like the side as tall as the tree yeah yeah and then I see the people and it's a man and two women which live your life and no when I was a waitress I used to wait on

them because when I saw them I was like wait a second yeah you're like wait and they were wearing tie-dye shirts with peace signs on them their hair was long beard and they all had the They're really nice people. They all were like, hey, man, when I walked by and I was like, this is amazing. And then we figured out because we moved into our house in October as soon as summer came. I just yon. No, it wasn't summer. It's in the fall.

No, it's the beginning of fall. Yeah, it's like September. Because I love them even more because I was like, yeah, fall. Yeah, celebrate fall. Yeah, because we were going to Haunted house. Yes. It's the fall coming back to me now. Oh, my God, guys.

Yeah, remember? I feel like this year when we go to haunted houses, we're going to have to do podcasts about our haunted house adventures. I just had this idea. But it won't be the same because we won't have the hippie party to start us off for the fall. But we're going to share our haunted house adventures with you. But yeah, I digress. Sorry.

So let's go to one every weekend though. We're definitely going to. Because this year now we're going to now we'll have to. Because we have an obligation. We'll be held accountable. Exactly. But they have this massive party in the beginning of fall where they have a live band. They have hundreds of people at their house.

It is literally Woodstock reincarnated. It is wonderful. It's like all, because like, it's not an annoying party that you're like, no, I would wish you guys would chill. It's like so chill. Awesome music, like live band. Everyone's just singing and dancing. I want to go.

Everyone's hanging out. And every, for like two years, we were like, we need to get, we need to become friends with them and go to this party. And then this year is the first year. We're not going to have them because they just moved. I am devastated. Where do you think they moved to? I don't even know.

Like Colorado or some shit. I don't know. But whoever they moved near, man, are so lucky. So lucky. Because we would literally sit on our back porch and like listen to the music. Like live vicariously through their party. And we would look at all of our neighbors and everybody else was doing the same thing. Everybody was sitting in their backyard or on their porch just listening.

And it was such a chill like neighborhood, like cool people moment. Like you were just like everybody's just hanging out on their back porch, listen to this cool music. I just love that. And I'm going to miss it so much. I know. Honestly, let's just do the party this year. Let's just have a crazy hippie party. Let's build a fuck.

If anybody could build a TV, it's your ass. I'm sure. You built like some weird box thing for your kids the other day. I did. Those pictures were so cute. How cute was that? Really cute. Yeah, I had a box from one of their toy, like a huge box.

And I just strung some twinkle lights in it. And my kids were obsessed with it for hours. and now call it their house and our... Like, they love it. I don't know they call it their house. And now I have this weird obsession with getting more cardboard and making them some elaborate, crazy-ass house. I'm going to make them a crazy-ass house at a cardboard.

I love that. I love that. I love that. I'm going to make them a cardboard house. But, okay. We've gone to a really happy place. Let's get back to this dark, dirty hippie place. Well, no. So we're not at the dark place.

Yeah, we're not there. Well, okay. So when he was released from... from prison after spending over half of his life there, like the amount of times he's been in and out, whatever, blah, blah, blah. He apparently asked to stay and said, well, what he says is literally, like my heart, I read it and my heart ached. Because he's institutionalized at this point.

Literally, this is how he knows. He said, oh no, I can't go outside. I know I won't be able to adjust to the world. Not after I spent all my life locked up and my mind was free. I'm content to stay here and take my walks around in the sunshine and play my guitar. Oh. So no one would have fucking died. No.

Like none of that crazy wild shit would have happened. That's just sad. He would have walked around the fucking yard, playing his guitar, in the goddamn sunshine. He just wanted to play music and just like have his routine. And what's even sadder about that is, before he had gone back in in 1955, he married the first woman he slept with. I don't know her name. Did he have a kid with her? But yeah, she got pregnant.

when he was 21. And they, I think when he went into prison, he wanted to, he was going to, he wanted to come out and, like, be straight and, like, get, like, be there for his kid. Right. But his wife took his son and left him for a truck driver while he was in prison. Whoa. And that's why he was like, he said, he was like, fuck that. Like, he never spoke to them again. He never spoke to his son.

He never spoke to his wife or whatever. But that's when why he was like, fuck, too. Well, and she, he, like, was coming out to nothing. She sent him a divorce decree in prison while he was, like, in person. And just left him for a truck driver. I'm like, that's not cool, man. Yeah, fuck that lady. Shit.

Really, like, Charlie just had some really unfortunate shit happened to him. He had a lot of bad lots in life, unfortunately. And it's, like, you can literally say, like, before he did anything crazy bad. It's like none of this, like, even him being a criminal at this point, it's like, but he was conditioned from birth to be. Literally. A criminal. It's like that's all he knew.

So it's like you can't even really. He used to go with his mom and his uncle on like. And at this point he wasn't committing violent crimes. No, he was just stealing like random ass cars. At this point it's just like he kind of is like a like a sad case at this point. Yeah. And just say I just want to play my guitar. Yeah, he just wants to play music man.

Because I don't have my wife anymore. My fucking kid is gone. Yeah. Like any at this point what is he like 21 at this point? Right. Well, and that's like rejection like your mom didn't. want you. Yeah.

Your wife didn't want you. You can't be with your kid. Like, fuck. Like, that's awful. That bums me out, man. So, it seems like it's going to get better. Yeah. Wait, actually, though, in my notes, I was like, after he asked to, like, not be released,

I go, however Manson had served his sentence and it was time to go. Dot, dot, dot, dot, unfortunate. Unfortunately. Like, that he can't stay. Hashtag unfortunate. I just wrote, he could have been a contender. Yeah, literally. And I think also during this whole thing, he, this is when he got super into like studying philosophies.

Like Islam, psychology, hypnotism, and Scientology, which is a cult, cult, cult, cult, which should like tip you off on what he was going to be into. He wrote down on some piece of paper, like when you had to write your religion before that was probably illegal. He wrote down Scientology. And like when he died, he was like saying that he was loyal to. That came up a few times in his life, like a connection to Scientology. And also that, if you read that, there's a really good book called Manhunter. And it's by John Douglas, who was in the behavioral science unit and the FBI. And he actually believes that literally everything that happened to Charlie Manson and everything that was done was just, he just wanted to be a rock star.

Like that was. No, he literally just wanted to be a rock star. And he believes literally everything happened because his only goal was to become a rock star. Well, and I'm going to jump ahead of myself. But the reason why he even ended up at Sharon Tate's house was because he, like, he wasn't who she was, like, she wasn't supposed to be involved in it. No, somebody else was. Yeah, which is crazy. Like, totally get to that.

I know. But that's, I want to fucking get to. I know. It's like, you want to just like, that is such a valid point. Yeah. Because, there's so many things I want to say, but I can't say yet. this like love, this passion for music. Like, he was one of those dudes that you're just like, okay, I get it.

Like, you love music. Yeah. Like, he really did. Listen to my music. I got to tell you about my music. Like, burr. Yeah. So it's like, oh, man.

So he served his time. He wasn't allowed to stay. Oh, yeah. And can I cut it? Sorry. I did find this. And I actually checked this with last podcast on the left, which is an amazing podcast. And you should go listen to it.

So true. They're really amazing. And when he was released his prison conduct sheet, which I think is just like progress report. Like you're right off. Said he has a pattern of criminal behavior and confinement that dates to his teen years. And this pattern is one of instability, whether in a free society or structured institutional community. Little can be expected in the way of a change in his attitude and behavior or mode of conduct. Wow.

So they were literally like this kid. has been institutionalized his entire life. Literally forever. And they literally said, like, little can be expected of, like, a change in how we've used the world. I mean. They should just kept. Like, is there, like, a law against that or something?

I'm assuming it's, like, money and, like, resources. Yeah, because it is taxpayers money. And probably, they were probably worried that at some point he would, like, sue them or something and be like, I didn't want to stay. They may stay past my thing, you know what I mean? Right. But now that you say that, that guy is so right. Like, I really truly feel like if he had just become a rock star, like, none of this.

And I, I know that's like a big, really bold statement to make, but it's true. Especially because, like, he, the reason he was at that house, though. Exactly. He wasn't there. But the reason they went there to begin with. And that's, and that's, I mean, that's John Douglas. He was, like, in the behavioral science unit at the FBI, like, it's not some schmals. It's not like, he's just like, I think he knows what he's talking about.

And it makes so much sense. Yeah. Okay, so he gets released in the, and he moves to San Francisco in the summer of love. San Francisco. Yeah. Whenever I read San Francisco, all I can think is, wake up, San Francisco. Because I watched far too much full house in my childhood. I love it so much.

I just think it, is it the mom is and the popas? That song that's like, with flowers in your hair. Oh, yeah. I don't know who that is. It might be. I hate that I'm singing into this microphone right now. You did a really good job. You're going to edit it out.

And I'm going to be like, girl. You're going to be like, I can't sing. Oh, I wanted. I sang too to make you feel better. I let all my failures flow. It wasn't like a real thing. Can I also just fucking say that why wasn't I alive during the Summer of Love? Oh, let me be the first to say.

I should have been. That Ash, 100% flourished. I would have flourished. Like, look at what I'm wearing right now. Oh my God. I wish, in fact, I'm going to take a photo. of Ash and post it on the things on the Instagram. So you can see that she's one with this right now.

I legitimately look like a fucking hippie. And I didn't plan it. I did not plan it. And the best part is she like even if we weren't doing this one, this is what she would know. No, I wore this dress to work today. It says what she wears. And I'm going to also tell you.

It's really cute though. Thank you. It's way too short. And I had to wear like little shorts underneath it because I was like, uh-oh. But it was like the cleanest thing that I had. And I was just like, it's Friday. Um, that's a fucking hippie statement. That's such a dirty hippie.

I'm fucking gross. It's the cleanest thing I had, but it doesn't cover my butt. Also, I really wish that I had time to do this because one of my coworkers had to do, like, dance hair. Like, there was like a prom or like a semi-formal or something. And we had a huge fucking thing of baby's breath. And I had my hair like twisted in these little things. Oh my God, if you had twisted baby's breath.

Well, and I wanted to, but I didn't have time. I was going to ask my friend. And then I like, I was like, I got to get out of here. You would have been hanging off of Charlie Manson's VW bus. I'm going to let you know that I would have. You would have joined the family. My feet would not have touched the floor. You would have joined the family.

I wouldn't have murdered anybody. No, but you would have totally joined the family. Yeah, I would have been like the girl that gets away. Yeah. You would have been one of the ones that's like, I'd just like to live on the ranch. Yes, let me live on the ranch. I would just like free love. Actually, really fucked up things happened on the ranch.

Yeah, I'm glad that. I wasn't alive during the summer of love. I'm good without the ranch. A lot of shit happened during the summer of, quote unquote, Love. Love. Love's a fucked up place. Okay.

So he moves to San Francisco during the summer of love, and he begins dating 23-year-old Mary, I don't know if it's Brenner or Bruner. I think it's Bruner. She has like 14 nicknames. Do you know her nickname?

Okay, I didn't even fucking write them down. So please, I read them, and I was like, I'm not going to sit there and say all of them. I have a few. It's, Mary. Her nicknames are ridiculous. Mary Ochi? And then Ochi.

just by itself. Mother Mary, Mary Manson, Linda D. Manson. I want to know. Okay. And my favorite one. Yes, sir. Christine Marie Yutes. I just, I didn't even see Christine Marie Utes. Like what? When I read it on whatever I read it, I was like, Linda D.

Like, your fucking name is Mary. I'm confused. And then Christine Mara D. And Christine Yutes. Some of these nicknames. I have, because I wanted to make sure to write down all the nicknames because they are bananas for all of these, like the main women that come up. Oh, it's amazing.

And for, okay, so I love it. I'm jumping ahead. So when he has come out, I'll tell you the nickname. So he begins dating Mother Mary, Christine, Yutz, Linda D., Mary Bruner, and 17 other people. Just kidding. It's just one person. It's just one person. Eventually, the two move in together, and somehow Charlie convinces her to let 18 other women live with them.

Damn. If Annie was like, oh, I just have these 18 other fucking ladies that are going to live with us, I'd be like, please feel free to go fuck yourself. Literally. Like, no. Like, goodbye. He even brought a 16-year-old in the relationship. Well, it was the summer of love. So, everyone was welcome.

Yeah, that's not okay. And I'm, he was having relations with all of them. He was having fucking relations. You know what? After spending a lot of time in reformed schools in prisons, having sex with other dudes, probably not his first choice. He was pretty psyched to be having sex with him. So they basically, I feel like,

they ended up being like his groupies. Yeah. Oh yeah. They were calling them like Charlie's girls. Yeah. He ended up, he hooked up with a dude named Reverend Dean Morehouse while he was hitchhiking. The rev. Obviously.

Obby. He gave Charlie. As Charlie does. He gave Charlie a piano. You know, as one does. Just gave him a piano. And he traded that for a VW fan. That's what the summer of love was.

Wow. Okay. I know that I just said that I didn't want to be alive. I took it back. But I'm recanting that. statement again. I wanted to be alive. He traded a piano for a VW bug. And that's when he started collecting family. That's when he started bringing in the girls. Oh yeah, like putting them on the fucking bus. Because when you pull up in a VW book. And they like revamped it and like put pillows in

it and shit. Oh for sure. So he has these 18 girls living with him. Like some of them fall off. And then some of them get like he like finds these little like hitchhikers and stuff like that. And he's picking up ladies everywhere. Oh yeah. Because the second lady that he added to group is an important one because that's is the squeaky from all right can we just you know the way she got her nickname like i got to go i don't know the nickname oh tell me you don't know how no i don't know why they called her squeaky no i'm gonna wait to tell you because it goes with another part of the story and it's fucking gross oh i'm excited is it is it how they got to stay at spawn ranch yeah oh yes it was i think it was in 1967 that he met Squeaky.

Yeah. Lennett's name is Lenette. Squeaky from. And she she didn't end up in the end like, you know, spoiler alert they murder people later. In case you weren't aware.

In case you weren't aware of where this was going. She didn't end up being complicit in any of the murders later. Right. Like she was there. But she did end up going to prison forever for pulling a gun on Gerald Ford in 1975, which is interesting. And, um, she did end up spending the rest of her life in jail, but not for being associated with Charles Manson. Which is very, like, that's impressive that you are associated with Charles Manson for your whole life and you didn't go to prison for that.

If you look up her, um, like Wikipedia page, it literally says like attempted assassin. Yeah, literally, because I think the gun didn't go off, but she, but she pulled one on. And she was like, she was also friends with Phil Hartman in college in high school, which is like bizarre to be very much. weird. A lot. That like kind of blew my mind. She's got an interesting rap sheet all over. But she's an inter... Like, she's one of the ones that I think people just like, associate with this whole thing. Yeah. So, yeah. He had like a homecoming queen at one point. He did. One of them is a homecoming queen. Like, I think one of the main murderers. It is it... It might be Leslie Van Houghton. I think it is because Van Houghton just always to me sounds like such a fucking homecoming princess name.

But I'm sure we'll get to them later. But anyways. They're all involved in part two. You'll hear more about them. but the doug yeah the third member that they picked up around this time was Patricia Crenwinkle who's a key player later she's another one like these are all names that probably sound familiar write them down on a post it write that shit down hers keep that handy okay because every one of these bitches has the most wild

crazy big names so she was aka big patty would hate that name don't call me big anything what a rough name big party like that's not cool. Her other nicknames were yellow. Same. Marnie Reeds or Katie. Like, like, maybe I think they just like did drugs and were like, what do you want your name to be now? Literally, I think like it's ridiculous. And she, when she met Charlie, it was in 1967, too, so when they met Squeety for him.

And they slept together immediately. They did. And she's, this is really sad. I'm just kidding, I do that. This is really sad, though, because she said. when they slept together, he was the first person to ever tell her she was beautiful. Oh. And that that's why she said from that point on, he could do no wrong and she would follow him

anywhere. So he like, and so this is really sad and like, but he was so good at like praying on this kind of like vulnerability. Because she like quit her job, left her apartment, left her car and joined him. Well, at this point he wasn't really like praying on it. I don't think. I think he was praying on it to get followers. But I think he was praying on it to get followers to be a rock star.

Like I literally think that was his end game. Right. So I think he was just trying to get people. Like I don't think he was violently. No, I don't think so either. Like I'm going to turn these people to murderers. And honestly, I think you're kind of right because like I think it was like he didn't have a family. He just wanted to have sex with everybody and take drugs.

Yeah. Now she, she like obviously had super low self-esteem. Her nickname was Big Patty. I mean, that's, I really hope he wasn't calling it out. Like, you're beautiful Big Pat. You beautiful Big Daddy. Also, any other view you watch with Charlie Manson, he's just screaming. Oh, my God.

And he's just like one of those dudes that's like, you dig. Literally, like so like fucked up on drugs. He's such a parody of himself. But I just picture him being like, Big Patty, you're beautiful. He's just so like, I just picture him screaming. He also has like a really like kind of like, not like an accent, but he just says that like hippie accent.

Yeah. That like beat poet. Yeah. accent. Like he always feels like he's telling you someone should be snapping. Yeah, he's always like performing poetry at all times. Like yeah, everybody should just be like, but in his later interviews where he's like greasy as fuck and like, like, and he's just real dirty and he's like, and he's like, and I think he just like got mad that, like, because he's always saying like if people thought, if I was as mad as like as crazy as everybody thinks I am, blah blah, blah. I think

he got like in his own head and got crazy paranoid. I literally like don't think he was crazy. I think that he just like went crazy. I think he did, yeah. Like he was, I don't think he was crazy to start. No, I don't either. I think he literally, like, I think drugs had a lot to do with it.

Drugs scrambled the shit out of his brain. So I don't think he was crazy. I think he was definitely like, his brain had fucking holes in it. Yeah, I mean, and I think he was very misguided in his thinking. And I think that drugs definitely played a role in his upbringing, obviously.

Right. But, but the, another thing about Crenwinkel, just to throw it in there for future riff, is that if you know this case, you've probably seen the crime scene photos, or maybe some of them. Or like know about it at least. You probably know that there's an infamous death to pigs that got written in blood on, I think it was the wall in the La Bianca's house, which were victims.

We'll talk about them in part two. And she was the one who wrote that. Right. She was also the run, that one that wrote Helter's. Skeleter and spelled it wrong. And spelled it Hiltor Skelter. Yeah. Super embarrassing. Real embarrassing. Like if you're going to make a spelling hour, now is not the time. Like they just needed you to do that real quick. You had one job. I mean, yeah, you had run job. Come on, man. So, and she's actually the longest serving female prisoner in the California penal system. Wow. Yeah. So that's interesting. She's a piece of shit too. Yeah, fuck her. So she'll be there forever.

Yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to add her in there because she's a big rule. These are kind of bigger name. and they'll come up later. Like squeaky and her are pretty big. And Leslie Van Houghton. Leslie Van Houten and there's a couple other that I can't name off the top of my head. But once we go to them, we're going to be like, oh yeah. Once we get there, you're going to know. Oh, yeah.

You'll know. You will know. So then they get an old school bus and revamp that with like hippie pillows. And they like live in there. Yeah, that's where they lived. Like they would, they went up and down the, um, they were on like a road trip, basically. They went all the way up to Washington State, the back down through like Mexico. went back to Los Angeles where they eventually settled.

During the time that they were living on the bus, though, Mary, or the original gal, Mother Mary, fucking youths, blah, blah, blah, became pregnant and gave birth to their son, Valentine, Michael, aka Pooh Bear. And I wrote that in capital letters with like several question marks. A.k.a. Pooh Bear. Several of the women assisted in the birth, which took place in a condemned house. I was literally just going to be like, and where did it take place? And I literally wrote dot, dot, dot, yikes.

Yeah. That's really all you can say is yikes to that. You gave birth with your husband or your, like, man's other ladies ripping your fucking poo bear out of your. Yikes. Like girlfriend. Look around. You got to get right. Look around, sweetie.

I can't get right with something. Put the LSD down. And do you know, and how did the umbilical gorg get cut? Did somebody like bite it? Charlie bit it. Am I shocked? Charlie is wild in. Charlie's fucking wild in them.

Is that true? It is. It's true. He said that he, there was nothing else around. So he had to bite the umbilical cord. Wow, that's some good old hippie shit. Yeah, that's hardcore. That's like Ozzy Osbourne shit.

Yeah, that's like, that's next level. Wow. That's some dirty hippie shit right there. So we bit the umbilical cord off? That's the umbilical cord. At this point, I read that they were starting to frequent this, like, infamous L.A. party house called the spiral staircase. I want to name my house, though. Right?

Like, someday. Right. Apparently bad shit happened there, though. There was like devil worship, satanic activities, animal sacrifices, blood drinking. Yeah. So it was bad newsbears. And Charlie actually blames this house and his family frequenting this house for, like, the dark turn. took from just being fucking dirty hippies who have sex with each other to like madness and murder

because he called these people like hardcore devil worshiping kind of people that's scary and at this point he said that not in a million years would I have predicted that things would turn out bloody and bad so at this point he said he would never have seen the turn it took so at this point he was just like let's make music and have sex and take drugs like let's not sacrifice animals and really turned shit for the worst that's scary. In August 1968, the family moved to Spahn Ranch, which

was originally a television set, and it was like a movie set for Western films. Yeah, which is crazy. Which is actually really cool. Yeah, I think that's so badass. Like, that, like, not badass. It's like interesting. Like, you can probably see these places in these movies. Well, and the, like, the

girls said that they used to, like, play games and, like, act like they were, like, Westerners. That's so great. Like, they would just run around all day, like, playing fucking weird games. Exactly. Which, like, what else do you do? You can see, like, it was used in Bonanza, the Lone Ranger, and Zorro. Yeah, so it was, like, that's crazy to think that.

So it's actually, like, yeah. Like, legit movies. So weird. Such bad you, too. Yeah, for real. Well, so the, by the time they moved there, the owner of the ranch was an old man named, uh, George Spahn. Um, and he was going blind.

So he let them live there in exchange for work around. the ranch and allegedly Manson ordered some of the women to have sex with him um they all well so he like ordered them to have sex with him and that's how Squeaky From got her nickname because she I think had the most sex with him and when he touched the inside of her thigh she would squeal. Oh my what. So there's that. That's how Squeak's got her nickname. So cute. She was like probably in her 20s or something and he was like 80 something years old. Oh, yeah. He was, yeah, I think he was 80 years old. Yeah. And she was kind of, she was kind of smart about it, though, because she got to stay in the main house.

Yeah, I mean, so they all had to sleep in these dirty-ass cabins. And she was like, well, she just like, if I got to have sex with George, I'm going to live somewhere. Nice. I mean, and from what I read, like, she, they, he didn't, he wouldn't force her to do it. Like, she just was like, eh. Manson did it? Yeah, that's what I read, at least. That she kind of was, like, cool with it. It was like, well, I get to. say in the main house. I don't know about the other girls, but I think she was like, she liked to the amenities. I read that he ordered some of them to have sex, which I later on, and I've seen like documentaries and stuff that some of them were ordered. It fits with the, uh, the vibe here. Yeah. Because I remember at like one point I read that like when he first showed up on the music scene, he was just playing music in like bars for tips. Yeah. And that the way he would get the tips was that

he would tell everybody that him and his two friends had just escaped from prison and they were waiting outside. Like if no one gave him tips, he would say this. And then he'd say, we were planning to rob this place. But I told them that you guys were going to give me tips so that they won't, you know, like, so if you don't make it the honest way, I'm going to bring them in here and they're going to rob this place. So give me money or they're going to rob it. And he was like, it's surprisingly effective. It just came funny. But this just made me think that like later he actually met some of like the rock stars of the time like Neil Young somehow and Neil Young was actually kind of impressed by him he has a song about um like Charlie Manson and everything that happened oh does he

I didn't even know that that's interesting I guess he said to some rock writer at the time he said he had this kind of music that nobody else was doing he would sit down with the guitar and start playing and make up stuff different every time musically I thought he was very unique I thought he really had something crazy, something great. He was like a living poet. Damn. Which is pretty... So he literally could have been a fucking rock star.

I think like he just like he had I think the sound like the sound that the time was going for. Yeah. He had something and even John Phillips of the Mamas and the Pappas, which was a huge band at the time. They were like the California dreamin. Yeah. People.

They almost were like talking about recording together at one point. Damn. Which is crazy. And he said... But he said about Manson, I'd just shudder every time. I'd say, no, I think I'll pass. Because Charlie was probably like, I'm gonna record with you. You dig?

Like, you dig? Snap it, snap, snap, snap. Snap it to snap, snap. Bongo. And he just starts, like, throwing LSD on his tongue. Literally, he's like, take this, you dig. Like, no, I don't want anything to do with that. Well, he also met Dennis Wilson, and in parentheses I wrote dude from the beach voice.

Drummer from the beach voice. I just wrote dude. Dude. He basically is just dude from the beach boys. He's like the least important one. I like the Beach Boys music. I don't know anything about them. But like I put them on my playlist.

And that's what's funny because it's like, and I think you do that because you were raised by Papa. Well, yeah. And Papa fucking loves the Beach Boys. My dad is a Beach Boys fanatic. He loves the Beach Boys. And apparently they're all like a bunch of like kind of fucked up individual. Yeah.

Like I don't want to be like slanderous here, but like I haven't heard great things about it. Yeah, I've heard like weird rumors and shit. Yeah. But Charlie fucking could have fit right in. Yeah, and this is actually, this is a huge. This is a huge part of the whole entire story. So in the summer of 1968, Charlie meets the dude from fucking the beach boys, Dennis Wilson, because Wilson picks up two women from the Manson family who were actually Patricia Crenwinkel and Ella Jo Bailey.

Big Patty. Yeah, big patty there. They were hitchhiking. So he brings them to his house. Pacific, is it palisides, palisades? Palisades, I think it is? Yeah, palisades. I'm from California. I'm from Massachusetts.

I'm like, Palacid is though. Try saying any of our town names, okay? Warchester. So he takes them up for a few hours, and then the next morning, he is met by Charlie Manson in his own driveway. Obviously. So, like, Charlie Manzan essentially broke into his house and, like, greeted him at his own fucking house.

And he's like, oh, you have two of my girls? I'm just going to live here now. And then he walked in the, inside and was greeted by many of the women of the Manson family. So they were literally just chilling in his house. But they actually became close with like him. Like he became close with the family and they lived there. Yeah, they all lived there for a while. And over the next few months, they would hang out, sing, do drugs together. Wilson paid for studio time where Manson recorded songs that he had written. Which is so crazy. You can listen to those songs too. A lot of the demos

are around. I've never listened to them because I don't know if I like want to. Because I don't Because I don't know if I want to have a Charlie Manson song stuck in my head. I don't know if I'm ready for that. I think they're more just like unsettling. Yeah. I'm not shocked. Also, fun fact, this is gross. But he apparently paid for some of the treatment of the women's gonorrhea.

Oh, that's nice of anything. They also once borrowed his car and wrecked it. And it cost almost $21,000 to fix because it was unsured. Oh, shit. So overall, he apparently spent $100,000 on the Manson family in total. I bet he's regretting picking up those chicks. And they also, like, because they had, like, such close ties with him, they met other people in the entertainment business,

including Greg Jacobson, Terry Milcher, and Rudy Altabilly. That sounds good. Who owned the house that Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski would later rent from him. Major yikes is what I read parentheses. Not a good home. Yeah. So during the time, that they were living with Wilson and then they moved to Spawn Ranch, Charlie becomes more and more

obsessed with the idea that he's like this godlike figure and his followers. He thought that his followers were and told them that they were reincarnations of the original Christians. Obviously. He led his family on many acid trips where he would guide them throughout their trips and he would reenact the crucifixion. As one does. You know, like I just did like an hour. for sure. Absolutely. And I wasn't on acid, but it was still amazing. Yeah.

In one of the interviews, I think it's Patricia Crenwinkel. I'm not positive. But I was watching this indie documentary on it. And she said, like, she remembers, like, being on acid and, like, watching him. And he was so in control. And she just remembered feeling so out of control. And then she said, she was like, but then I, like, realized I never saw him take the acid. So I'm sure he took acid.

I think at one point, for sure. And many points, I'm sure. But when he was, like, trying to be the one. Being God. Playing God. He wouldn't take it and he would put them all on acid. Because he's putting them all in such a warped place. And he would literally just dip his fingers into their minds and just scramble it up.

He would say to that, because a lot of them were runaways too. Oh, yeah. They ran away to live with Charlie Manson. There was like 16, 17 year olds. Yeah. Like when they first joined. And he would say to them, like, I still see your mother on you. Like, why is your mother on you?

like, or like, like, like, like, shit that was really gonna, like fuck them up mentally. And one of, he prayed on the, on the little tiny things that were like a part of them. Yeah. He, and like, this is like random and I don't even know if it, I don't know why he did this. Maybe you can know because you're a science person or like explain it to me. But he would, one of them said that like he would put his hands up and they would put their hands on his and he would like move his hands all around like and move their hands. And you are supposed to mirror exactly like the.

face that he was making. Maybe it had something, I mean, I don't know if Charlie Manson was reading about mirror neurons or anything, but it's supposed to be that like we have mirror neurons that are, we will mirror other people's, like, basically like expressions and emotions. And maybe he was trying to delve deep into that and start. Or maybe he was just a spiritual, but that's what he thought. Like manipulating that scientific fact for his betterment, which if he was. Which if he was, man, like, he really could have done awesome things if he had used that brain and not destroyed it with drugs.

Seriously. Because, yeah. But, yeah, so he would, like, do, like, fucked up things to them, basically when they were on acid and other drugs. Because he was just trying to get them as his little army. It's almost like a Jeffrey Dahmer style, like, way less violent. How Jeffrey Dahmer wanted to make, like, people. Like, his little zombies. Yeah, yeah.

Like, but Jeffrey Dahmer did in a much different way. Yeah, very different. Well, do that something. But it's like the same mentality of like, I want to make them what I want them to be. Yeah, he was molding them. In like a, like a precarious situation. So that I can make them what I want. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, like mold them. Well, so I don't know if this is jumping ahead too far. So stop me if you want to add anything. But in addition to believing that his family was reincarnated, he also believed that there was a great racial war coming. between black and white people. He felt that soon black people would rise in rebellion against white people, and he referred to this as helter-skelter.

And where did he get that? He really, really loved this band. I don't know if you guys have heard of them. The Beatles? The Beatles. I hope I said that correctly. Yeah, I think it's not Beatles. No, no Beatles.

Yeah, Beatles, okay. So he was obsessed with the Beatles, and he felt like many of their songs were like, speaking to him indirectly, like messages. And there was one instance where I don't know if they lived in a yellow house or something in the middle of this, but he called it their yellow submarine. Probably. That makes sense.

It was like hiding them. Yeah. And he saw what he thought were like clues in their songs. In the biblical book of Revelation and the Beatles White album in particular, which is their trippiest album. Because they were on so much else. And he really mainly saw stuff in the songs, Piggies, Blackbirds, and Helter Skelter.

Which is Piggy's and Helter Skelter played a main role. Yeah, a huge role. What we'll talk about next week. Wilson did eventually, like, obviously kick them out of his house. Yeah. Manson later accused the Beach Boys of reworking one of his songs and including it on their 1969 album 2020 without crediting him. I wonder if they'd,

I bet they did that. So from everything I've read, they did. Yeah, like, I think he was right. It says that Wilson took one of his songs called Cease to Exist and turned it into the Beach Boy's song, Never Learned Not to Love. And he took full writing credit for himself. Damn. He changed like a couple of the lyrics. Like changed it around.

Yeah, and then they just, you know, harmonized and made it their own. That's a huge thing in his life, too, that he, like, cites. says, you know. What kind of like made him? He's had rejection his whole life and now he finally does something and somebody else takes credit for it. But that's that's that's shitty. That's bad to happen to

like musicians all over the place. Yeah. It probably has. And he, that one of, that producer, you mentioned Terry Melcher that he introduced him to. He actually came to watch him perform at Spawn Ranch. Like he agreed to like watch him in May,

1969 I have down here. But he left and was like unimpressed by everything. And, he cites that too. So again, another rejection. And he said, like, that's when things got really dark. And that's the thing. Like, he kept, like, it didn't work out with Dennis Wilson.

It didn't work out with Terry Milcher. He kept getting so close. And then it would totally, like, like, disappear in front of his face. And that's when he started, like, the crazy LSD trips with his family and, like, trying to control them and being, like, there's a racial war coming. Exactly. And now that he was doing that, like, spiral staircase shit, like, partying and stuff. Yeah.

It was just getting darker. Well, it's almost like little seedlets were like planted, like a trail. And then it's like this big fucking explosion at the end. Which we will get there. Now this is going to be, we decided a three-parter. So you're in for the long haul. Yeah. I'm taking the reins for three episodes.

This is Ash taking the driver's seat for three whole fucking episodes. Except thank God your hair because you also helped with research because I'm the most, I did the most basicest amount. of research. No, I actually didn't. I thought my research was, like, pretty good. Yeah, I was going to say you did good research. I just get, like, into the little minutiae. But, yeah, so that's part one of Charlie.

Chal's. So now we're... So next week we're going to get into the murders, everybody. Yeah, next week's going to be the gritty. The dark times. Yeah. So, like, take a bubble bath this weekend. Take a bubble bath, do a face mask.

Yeah. Drink some, like, mimosa. Yeah, I have a mimosa this. They're always nice. Oh, my God. Oh, you didn't drink your milkshake. I got you. I didn't yet.

Ooh, that's exciting. It has coffee in it, though, so don't drink it now. Well, it's probably not real coffee. Exactly. Oh, I shout out to this podcast I listened to called, and that's why we drink. Because they, it's like two girls, and one of them does ghost stories and one of them does, like, true crime, what we do. That's a really good. It's a cool setup, yeah.

And one of them. Because we want to do some ghost stories too on here. Are we're going to delve into like paranormal? Heck yeah. Well, so but one of them drinks like alcohol, but the other girl doesn't drink and she just drinks milkshakes. That's amazing. And I literally listen to it every day.

Is this us? It's literally us. And she's always talking about all these yummy milkshakes she has and I was driving today to your house. And I remembered that me and Marissa in high school used to go to what was like once Little Peach and then Tedeskes and then now is a 7-Eleven. And I, we used to go get like these like crazy yummy milkshakes because they have like a milkshake maker.

Which I had no idea. It's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. And I made us both milkshakes, and I drank mine in 0.4 seconds. And I opened the door, and she just handed me this. I didn't even say anything. I was just like, here you are. Here you are.

His own coffee milkshike. But yeah, so. Part two. Part two. We just gave you so much to end it out. We did. So we hope you enjoyed this episode, especially me because I was so nervous. And you did great.

Thank you. And we're doing amazing. You're doing amazing, sweetie. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Woo. Bye. Subscribe, rate, and review.

Bye. Hold that note. Do you think I was an alto? I think you nailed that soprano. Goodbye.