Morbid - David Carpenter: The Trailside Killer (Part 1)

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Throughout the 1960s and 70s, from Los Angeles to San Francisco, Californians were terrorized by multiple killers including notorious serial killers like the Zodiac Killer, the Hillside Stranglers, Herbert Mullin, and Ed Kemper. While the decade may have ended with these killers disappearing or apprehended, the threat of violence and murder simply moved north.Though less known than his contemporaries, David Carpenter was no less prolific and frightening a killer than those men mentioned above. Nicknamed “The Trailside Killer” by the press, Carpenter terrorized Point Reyes and Santa Cruz County for a decade, assaulting, kidnapping, and killing at least eight people, but he was suspected of more. Like those other killers, Carpenter had a long history of violent and antisocial behavior going back to his childhood, including multiple arrests and incarcerations. How was it that a man with such an alarming history of violence could go uncaught for a decade?Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1980. "Trail Killer will strike again." Santa Cruz Sentinel, December 1: 1.Burkhardt, Bill. 1979. "Woman found murdered on Mt. Tam." San Francisco Examiner, August 21: 1.Graysmith, Robert. 1990. The Sleeping Lady: The Trailside Murders Above the Golden Gate. New York, NY: Onyx.Keraghosian, Greg. 2020. "'Do not hike alone': For 21 months, the Trailside Killer terrorized Bay Area's outdoors." San Francisco Chronicle, October 25.Leader, Lewis. 1980. "Identification ends dad's long quest." San Francisco Examiner, December 2: 2.San Francisco Examiner. 1960. "MP's shots foil attack on woman." San Francisco Examiner, July 13: 1.—. 1961. "Presidio attacker gets 14 yrs." San Francisco Examiner, March 10: 11.—. 1960. "Sex case insanity plea." San Francisco Examiner, October 8: 5.Santa Cruz Sentinel. 1970. "Boulder Creek girl attacked." Santa Cruz Sentinel, January 29: 22.—. 1970. "Grand jury indicts con." Santa Cruz Sentinel, July 17: 7.—. 1970. "SLV kidnap suspect flees Calaveras jail." Santa Cruz Sentinel, April 27: 1.The People v. Carpenter. 1997. S004654 (Superior Court of Los Angeles County, April 28).The People vs. David Carpenter. 1999. S006547 (Superior Court of San Diego County, November 29).Todd, John. 1980. "Tam closed in hunt for clues." San Francisco Examiner, October 16: 1.  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And I'm Jordan. And this is a morbid slash nighttime podcast crossover. Woo. Today we have Jordan from Nighttime Podcast on the pod. Our Canadian brethren, he's the best. He's so much fun.

We literally sat and talked for like three hours. We really did. It was like spooky shit, cryptid shit. We'll tell you all about it. All kinds of shit. This is going to be. be a fun episode. We kind of did a spooky campfire tale like round robin where he brought four Canadian tales. They're all very different, not all cryptids. Like there's some cryptids, some paranormal,

some just like cool, weird, spooky stuff. We did the same thing. And I think it was, I think it turned out pretty cool. I had so much fun. We laughed a lot. We were spooked out. It was great. We laughed. We laughed. We cried. We grew closer as people. No, it was wonderful. So if you haven't listened to nighttime podcast, I highly recommend you do so. Jordan is great. His podcast is great. And we hope you enjoy it. And look out for another spooky collab soon with Jordan. We're not done with him yet. Never. Thank you, Jordan from Nighttime Podcast for joining us. We're so excited. I'm even more excited. I've never met a best-selling author. podcaster before.

This is the truth. I'm going to melt into my chair. It's like the most humble human you couple of the turn. She's like, I'm like, wow. The people listening don't see her shirt that says best selling author podcaster. Yeah, that says like you have to call me by that. Yeah.

I just maintain this image. It's kind of a weird dichotomy. Well, it was weird that you made me sign something before I came on here to call you that. Yeah, you know, we don't have to talk about that, Jordan. Oh, shoot. That was an NDA. I signed, okay? You'll be hearing from our attorneys, okay.

Senior in small claims court. Yeah. But thank you. And today, we're going to be doing something a little different because we decided this would be a fun, like, you know, international collab of sorts. And we all love weird shit and we all love cryptids. We all love paranormal. We love UFOs. We love UFOs.

We love all sorts of weird things. And you start this with this may be a little something different. Do you say that every episode? Because when I look at what you all do, it's like every week I'm like, whoa. It's just going to be something different. I know. I feel like we've been doing that lately, actually. Yeah, we're in a place of testing lately, like testing some new stuff.

Yeah, we recently did like a little rebrand, which feels really gross to say. I don't know why. I feel like that's like such a weird thing to say. Yeah. But now we're not just true crime. We're like everything. Yeah, we kind of took out the true crime pod. us. Everything morbid. I thought you've always been everything because I feel when I first found your

show, I believe it was a paranormal story. Probably. Regardless, it's good. I think everyone listening needs more of you both. So if we can spread you around all the different topics, maybe like some baking kind of stuff. Hell yeah. I love that. We'll both do that. Cleaning tips. A lifestyle brand is what we become. I'll imagine. Ashenle and a lifestyle brand. That would be very interesting. It would be a lifestyle. I don't know which one, but certainly not a brand. That's for sure. Yeah, I think we've always, we've always kind of like done paranormal stuff. And I always wanted to do more cryptids and like weird shit like that. But I was like, I don't know if it's like straying too far away from true crime, but people seem to like them. So it works out. We do it. And now we have so many episodes a week that we're like,

we can do everything now. But I think it's good for everyone because I've always found if I have an episode that's really dark and heavy, I need something a little more fun and light to, you know, to just kind of reset me. And if you look at the back episodes of my show, you'll kind of see when, like, I'm at a point where it's like, oh, man, Jordan needs a break. It's like, this episode is about a talking parrot. The next one is about a UFO sighting where he interviews like an old fisherman. And, you know, that's the sign that I needed a little time off. That's, yeah, that's it. That's exactly us, too. Like, this is actually going to be. following up, I think Gerard Schaefer and the club kid murder.

And the club kid murders, which are two gnarly cases, like very dark, very, very dark. Yeah. So this is kind of a perfect little palate cleanser to zoom right into something else horrible. Yeah. This will be like a hug with someone going, it's all right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Someone's saying, just look at the big foot over there.

Check it out. Just be one with the big foot over there. That said, though, some of these stories are freaky. So I think some people may question reality and their safety when in the woods after listening to this. Very true, which we're always ones to be like, don't go in the woods. Just stay out here. Stay where it's light out. Yeah.

Did either of you grow up near the woods? We did, actually. Yeah, because we're like right in the middle of the Bridgewater Triangle. So we're surrounded by like the Hockamock Swamp. and like all this woodlands. And so it's always been around. Like my house growing up was completely surrounded by like a very long stretch of woods in every direction. So it's always freaked me out.

And we grew up going to like the Berkshires, which is just all woods and mountains and stuff. Yeah. So. Okay. So was it like the woods that would be near your home or near your area when you grew up? Would this be kind of dangerous woods where you couldn't go too deep into it? But maybe you've explored sometimes? Yeah.

I would say so. The ones behind the house, we used to, me and my house. I used to go on bear hunts. Yeah. Are you serious? I never found a bear, but it was kind of just like a fun thing to do when I was little. Like, maybe we'll find a bear and die. That'll be fun.

When you say bear hunt, like, were you prepared? Like, did you just have a gun and stuff? Or are you just like, we're going to. What would happen if you found a bear? No, my friend was like a hippie who like protested the Vietnam War. So we didn't have any guns. So she was just going to have like a quiet discussion with it, I think, if she ran into it. We went out there just loaded with vibes.

You just had like, she had like a ukulele over her shoulder. You know what? A flower crown. If you found a pair, Elaine and I would be probably here discussing your dark story. That's very true. That is very true. What were they doing looking for a bear? Why were they out there with a ukulele?

The tragic ending of my mother and sister. Those two beautiful people wandering into the woods to look for a bear unarmed, simply with vibes. Minus the very optimistic bear hunting. I had a similar kind of area growing up. I had like right behind my house was the forest. And the very beginnings of it is like where me and all my friends, you know, would build cabins and explore and, you know, all that sort of stuff. But as it got deeper, you know, there was a lot of kind of just mysterious sounds

and odd things that went on in there. So I think I've always grown up with like a healthy fear, but also a healthy obsession and fascination with, you know, the weird things that happen in the woods. I've always found there like a magical place because you can really leave the world behind and go into the wild just by walking into the woods. And where I grew up in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada, it's we don't have a lot of, like, it would be rare to see a bear, like what you would most likely encounter that would really be dangerous other than a crazy person would be like a coyote or something. Yeah, yeah, the worst monsters. But, you know, we have like coyotes and stuff, but that would be about as dangerous as it would get, I guess.

That's kind of here, too. And that's what we would do. It was like the little, like the perimeter of the woods was always like, oh, we're going to make like a witch's den or like a witch altar for doing nothing when I was like seven. But we were like, oh, it's so spooky. But if you wandered a little further in it was like, okay, we might die in here. Yeah, there's a animal. I could definitely like eat our leg. They will never find us.

Yeah. Yeah. healthy respect for how scary it is in that like you said, I think it's so scary because the further you get in, the more untouched by humans it is. So you're like, what is out here? It's almost like the bottom of the ocean. Yeah. Like nothing can get down there. So like what is down there? Like whatever's down there needs to have adapted to being down there. And it's kind of like the further into the woods, it had to adapt to be farther into the woods. And what the hell is it? Yeah. Seriously. Actually, I heard someone that there was this thing where there was this thing where, I can't remember where I heard this, but they were talking about, like, if they had three wishes, what they would wish for. And one of the wishes they said, I really enjoyed. Their idea was just for a couple days to have the oceans and the ice caps around the world lifted up so they could kind of go down, you know, at the bottom of the motorbike or whatever and just explore. And just the idea, it would be amazing to do at the bottom of the ocean, like what you could find under there. And I just imagine finding some carving or something and being like, what the, you know, curving stone at the bottom.

Oh, it makes me crazy that we can't see the bottom of the ocean. Like, makes me crazy. Someday somebody will invent something and we'll be able to. I mean, I don't want to. Something to withstand that, like, insane pressure. Yeah. But even recently in Texas, I think it was, like, because of all the droughts, because, you know, like global warming. And the, like, one of the lakes completely dried up.

And there was dinosaur footprints going across the entire lake, like huge dinosaur. And people were just swimming in this lake with huge massive. Massive dinosaur preference underneath them, not knowing. That's why I feel like, have you ever gone swimming and you're just like, you just get this like weird, eerie sense of like, ooh, what is underneath me? Yeah, I have a huge issue. I think that's why. I think our bodies can sense that there's something. Yep.

There are like hundreds of thousands of years of mystery just down there, yeah, waiting to be uncovered. And of course, as time passes and in cities and civilizations get kind of swallowed up on the ocean, you know, they're going to leave some remnants under there. Yeah, yeah. But getting back to the woods, I've always loved stories set in the woods. Do either of you, like I know we all brought a few stories to the table, do either of you have a story that's set in the forest since we're on the topic? I have a couple. Actually, most of mine are in the woods.

Really? And a couple of mine are. Was that intentional? No. Yeah. And actually wasn't. I am always drawn, though, to like weird woods things. I was always something that catches my interest when I see it.

Yeah. I was mostly just drawn to the names of mine. And I think you too will also just lull along with me. Ash was naming when she would find one and be like, oh, this is it. I'd be like, I'm doing this simply because of what it's named. Those are great. That's a good way to do it. Just like, you know, when you're thinking about back in like the 80s and 90s or whatever,

when you're picking out a movie at the movie story, you just look at the cover. And you're like, that's an amazing cover. I'm going to watch that. Exactly. Then you watch the worst movie ever. And you're like, the cover wasn't even in the movie. Like, what is this? That actress didn't even come in the movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Who wants to start with one of these? Let's get into this. You're going to do it, dude? I'll start with something called the Dark Watchers. And these are found in California. So we don't have to worry about these.

Awesome. But our brethren across the country do. So these are seen in the St. Lucia Mountains of California. They've been seen and reported for over 300 years. Whoa. I'm always astounded when it's like that far back that there's reports or any kind of witness sightings of these things because I'm like, then what is it? I'm also astounded that they've been, they've been seen that far back and I've never heard of them. Yeah, I know.

It's crazy. So basically the St. Lucia Mountains go from Carmel to the Kayama River in St. Louis Obisboe County. So anywhere along there, you could find yourself staring up at the mountains and seeing one of these guys. Awesome. I think you don't want to, but it's unclear. Like no one's been like torn apart by one of these guys or something like that, but they're ominous But it just comes down to personal preference pretty much if there's 300 years of reports though then a lot of people survived I take right I will see one

There's 301 years I will not be the first to go there are some little legends here and there though that say if you see one and it looks back at you and you like have a moment that you could vanish Okay, so my personal preference is nah. Like, it's just really what your risk level is. Like, if you're just a risk taker, then give it a shot. Odds are that you're going to live to tell the tale. Yeah. So charge at it with a ukulele. Yeah, exactly.

And your vibes. We're here for a good time, not a long time. Let's go. Let's hang out with a dark watcher. Let's do it. So you're probably wondering what you're going to see when you look up and see a dark watcher. And this will probably help you understand whether you want to like just have a moment with them or not.

So sometimes you're going to see them in the afternoon, like late afternoon or the early twilight hours. That's when they really like to hang up there. You know you're going to be seeing a dark watcher if you suddenly have this like really uneasy feeling of being watched. And it's not one of those like, oh, I feel like somebody around. You're just like, okay, where is this person that's staring at me? It's like a really intense feeling. And they say that they can't, people say they cannot ignore it once it starts. And when you look around for someone to blame it on, that's when you see them.

They're going to be standing on the ridges overlooking California on the mountaintop. And they're super tall. Some say they can reach up to like 15 feet tall. No, thank you. Yeah. Very tall, like very slender, kind of gangly. Little slender man vibe. I was just going to say that.

But they always wear all black. They're always wearing like black cloaks. which made me think like Jack the Rippery because they also wear big hats. Oh. Oh. I was like, ooh. I kind of love how theatrical they sound, though. Yeah.

They make an entrance. That's what's nice about them is they don't just like blend into the background. They're wearing big wide brimmed hats to like children of the corn-esque. Exactly. Or like this like a Supreme on American Horror Story Coven. Way better. Either one. We'll do.

Malachi or Supreme. They have no facial features that you can really see because you can't really get close to them. So it's just all blackness. And generally, they're holding a stick of some sort. But again, it's all shadowy. So you can't tell if it's a stick. If it's like some worse, a ukulele, an umbrella, perhaps. Who knows?

I don't know. I've never seen one. And they just stare at you. They just stare out over the mountains and they'll vibe with you in this like weird, terrifying way. And then again, if you try to approach them, you might vanish. But who knows? Because those people that vanish can't tell us. So not sure.

People think they might be otherworldly entities that are here to just stock travelers. Like just watch them, make sure they don't encroach on any of their business or their mountains. They don't know if they feel some kind of ownership over these mountain ranges. Who knows? But it's believed they have like super hearing and super sight. So if you talk shit, well, in the presence of one, even if they feel, they're standing up on a mountain ridge, they're probably going to hear you. That's a power move.

That is a power move. So don't do it. Don't talk shit about them if they're out there. No. I like this kind of story, though, because this can go in so many different directions. Like it could be, you know, like a supernatural force that's up there watching people for any imaginable number of reasons. But it could also just be like a bizarre cult that lives in this mountain range that keeps a distance because they want to see what you're doing, but they don't want you to know what they're up to. Exactly.

I like the latter. I like that too. I love a cult moment. And it could be that. Who knows? Because no one's really run into one. And honestly, it makes me think like a cult or like an actual humanoid person is responsible for this because there's also like, and I was going to get to it later, but they, if you leave

like a little, like an offering for them of anything, like food or anything else, sometimes they'll leave flowers back. Well, that's lovely. Yeah. But I'm like, are they alive flowers or dead flowers? because that tells a different story, I feel like. What if dead flowers is just their love language? Everybody has a different one, okay?

Maybe. And then they're all black, so they're a bit macabre. They're like, oh, this is my love language. Yeah, dead flowers. Goths. They're just got, yeah, just random gots in the mountains. It's got a bit of a... I think the idea of them leaving, like, flowers and stuff,

that's got a bit of like Blair Witch vibes to it. Yeah. But it kind of implies some kind of kindness. Like whether they were leaving something, dead flowers or living flowers. It's, I'd rather than be leaving something than, you know, following me staring at me. Exactly. And not leaving like my friend's eyeballs and tongue for me.

Like that's at least a flower. Yeah. At least a flower. I'll take that over that. Well, and maybe that's why people vanish because maybe they're so kind once you get up there that like you join the cult. And you're just like, wow, these are my friends who knew. There you go. And you've joined a cult.

Yeah. That's how it happens. It's that easy. That's easy. You just leave them something. They leave you a flower and you're like, I'm in. All right. I do it.

I think it's like maybe an like a cult of like ecological activists. This is their way of guarding the mountains. Maybe they're leaving you a little offering. If they're ecological kind of activist, so we're kind of leaving like maybe local flowers from the area would be something of value. And I think they're hiding out. all dressed in black, wearing the same outfits to kind of, just to create a look of unity among the cultists. That's what I think is happening. We've cracked the case. I was just going to say,

did we just figure this out? I think Jordan just figured it out. Yeah, so everyone can move on. Yeah. I think the mystery in the question is, is it a cult or is it like a family who for generations have felt a need to guard the mountains and each child is grown up to serve the job as a watcher very wrong turn we're going to write fanfic about this cryptic we are already we are in the middle of the first book oh yeah fanfic because this is amazing i just love the idea of a family of tall goths that just like love the mountain and want to keep it i love that that's very pure i'm into Maybe I want to work on a short story where one of them decide to leave the family and go down the mountain into the city shedding the black cloak. Shetting it.

This is beautiful, you guys. I love this. What happens when we put our heads together? And they enroll in a high school and they meet the other gots, which just is like a natural fit. But they're a different kind of got got. Well, one of them is actually a vampire. Oh, there you go. This is such fanfic.

We love it. I think we should just end the episode here and go write some fan book everybody. We got some stuff to do. We got to bring this to Tumblr, y'all. We're busy. Let's get some devian art up in here about this. Let's go. Yeah, no, I think we got it.

I don't know. I think we solved the mystery and we will bring the mystery forward in a series of fanfic that will publish on Tumblr. There we go, love. I love it. I love this. I got a story set in the woods for you. Ooh. In the Canadian woods, too.

So we're going to go, we're going to head north a bit from where yours was set. The best kind of woods. I've always loved Bigfoot in Sasquatch stories. Me too. I know people will roll their eyes when they hear those words, Bigfoot and Sasquatch, because it's kind of like a bit of a cliche, these kind of stories, but sometimes they have evidence. And I actually, I'm going to combine sort of two stories that are both ones I covered on nighttime. They're not well-known Canadian Bigfoot Sasquot stories, but people who are into that scene

in Canada would probably be familiar with both of these. The reason I'm deciding to kind of tell the two is you had just talked about the story of the watchers having like a 300-year history. One thing I often do on my show is I'll just put a call-out to my listeners. You know, if you've had something strange happened to you or a bizarre story, let me know and we'll talk about it. One of the episodes that came out of a response to that call-out was this guy wrote me from Nova Scotia, from Picto is an area of Nova. of Scotia and he said, it sounds silly, but I actually saw a Sasquatch when I was in high school. And his story, and his story was him and his high school running team were doing these things called hill sprints, which is basically the track team would go into the woods with their coach

and would just run up hills and then run down hills as a torture. That sounds so fun, which is torture. That sounds great. Yeah. Well, it's if energy wasn't a thing that. depleted in your body, it would maybe be fun because you'd be grabbing your bush just in the twigs and pulling yourself up the hill. But in this guy's story, he told me that during these hill sprints, many members of the track team, including the coach, who is one of the teachers,

saw what they believe to be a Sasquatch. And I said, yeah, since there's a bunch of people like in on the story that saw it, like, you know, that's reputable. I'll cover it. So I had him on my show and he told the story. But what was really interesting, We did the episode. I was about to publish it. And one of the last things that happened was I was writing online that I was doing a story about a Bigfoot sighting in Picto. And one of my other listeners was trying to help me do a bit of research by looking for other stories in the area. And what they ended up stumbling upon was a newspaper article set in the same town.

It's a defunct newspaper that doesn't exist anymore that described like an, an article. almost identical situation as the guy I talked to described, having happened about 100 years earlier. In that, in the article referenced prior events happening in that same area with an unidentified beast in the woods. And so immediately it went from this fun little story to like, whoa, like this town has, you know, a long history. Yeah, but his actual story was simply that they were running up the hill. And as they were doing these hill sprints, something just kind of came out of the bush. They couldn't get a look at it because it was just kind of like a dark presence within this bush and screamed at them,

and they continued to run up the hill. Screamed at them? Yeah, just like, blah. Maybe he was trying to sleep and they were causing a ruckus. Running up their hill, yeah. But I think it, in that particular story, what really hit me was just this history. But anyway, that was that was just a side, a sidebar to the story I actually want to tell you about. So this has legs. Yeah. I think I think what this is going to show you is that Canada has Bigfoot, a Bigfoot presence. Not a problem, a presence.

Maybe a problem. Is it a problem? I always want to think. You'll be the judge in a minute because this is a sighting that has evidence in the evidence is quite chilling. Oh, I always want to think of Bigfoot's as like these sweet kind. gentlemen. We were just talking about it before we signed on. We were like, why is everybody so mad at Bigfoot? And I guess we're about to find out. Oh, man. Okay. So imagine this. There's a, there's a fellow named Gino Mekis. It's the evening of October 3rd, 2019. He's in northwestern Ontario, very remote forest. He's actually hunting. He's about 50 kilometers from the nearest community. So we're talking like the absolute middle of nowhere. And Gino is a lifelong hunter, very comfortable in the woods.

He considered himself, when I spoke to him, he says, I consider myself a tracker. I can see, you know, footprints and follow the animals. Like he's that, like that level of hunter. And he's in the woods with his wife and his young grandchild. I believe a two-year-old was with them. And just, you know, that's a choice when you're going hunting, but these are. That's exactly what I was just thinking. And I almost said it.

words exactly. I was like, that's a choice. Yeah, but these are like lifelong hunters from a community and like a culture of lifelong hunters. So he's out there and they go throughout the day. I believe he told me they were hunting for Kraus, which I may be pronouncing wrong, but it's a type of bird. But regardless, they're wrapping up their hunting for the day and they're traveling back to their vehicle. And that's kind of when this video slash audio I'm going to play who takes place.

as they're walking back, he told me they had they could smell something really obscene, something that stood out as very stinky. That was the first sign. One of those two. Yeah, that was the first sign something weird was happening. The next is complete silence in the woods. No more birds chirping or whatever you would hear. No more anything. Just complete silence.

And then what he starts to hear is the sound of something unlike anything he's. ever heard before screaming or crying out or just simply roaring. Again, I backed this story up a lot by describing how comfortable and confident and experience he is in the woods. He's like, this is unlike anything I've ever heard. As such, as such, he hits, he hits record on his phone. And this is what he records. And now you tell me, it's so scary.

I'm literally like, I'm terrified. You tell me if this is anything other than a GD Sasquatch. Him is so mad. Same little dude, same. Okay, that is on some Tarzan shit. I keep picturing this giant big foot, like, stubbing his toes. That's literally the sound that I think John makes every time he stops his toe. I really broke the tension because I was like,

that feeling some type of way just then. That is horrifying. That is nightmare. And the poor little baby with them. He was so stressed. Yeah. And yeah, the baby just makes a weird sound. Gino is like, shah.

And you're, wha. Whatever it is, it sounds vicious. And when this is, he published a video of it on his YouTube channel. And the video is just like the camera pointed towards the trees, but you can, you know, you can hear it. In the video, I guess you would say it went viral. It had like millions of views. and which got the attention of like a lot of experts with different types of animals.

And there's been no consensus of what he saw. Some people believe it may have been a bear that was hurt and dying. And that's kind of one idea. I guess when bears are injured and dying, they'll do this kind of death roar. And some people believe that's what he was hearing or possibly an injured wolf or coyote. but experts have also said like, no, it certainly isn't that. But one thing I do know for sure is it's a genuine video and a genuine sound without any kind of editing or anything. Like if you look at this guy's channel, he had a YouTube video or YouTube channel for years where it's mainly him playing electric guitar in his bedroom.

And then all of a sudden there's this. And it just sounds authentic. Yeah, because you can tell like whatever it is is like in the distance. Yeah, and that everybody's reacting to it organically. Especially the baby. Yeah, like you could tell it was like upsetting the baby. Mm-hmm. It's upset me.

And then to be, you know, 50 kilometers from the nearest community, it's like, if this thing wants to eat you, there's very little you're going to be able to do about it. I want to believe they don't want to. I think he just stubbed his toe. That's why he was so mad. He stubbed his toe on the corner of his bed and toe is it. I kind of feel like his Bigfoot wife left him. He found out she was stuck. and out and that was just a cry of anguish.

Oh. Yeah, it's more of like, oh. Yeah. He's almost saying, no. And there's such, there's such misunderstood beasts. Everyone thinks they're so violent, but they can't change it. So even if they're a nice animal who's feeling like a sincere emotion, they can't help up be like, rah.

Yeah, because they just have those lungs, man. They can't help it. They are who they are. They are who they are. Yeah. It's like when you see, you know, like a big leopard or tiger, like if you look, you you look at them from a distance they just look like a regular cat but then when you get a bit closer you're like ooh that thing it'd mess me up yeah like you would kill me so easily my god that sound

wow it's gonna be in mind that's gonna be like the the sounds of the black hole that john made me listen to yeah just haunting my dreams i checked that uh oh i check that out yeah it's that's very cool it sounds like a synthesizer it does it sounds like somebody made it but i'm like that's just space That's just when you get sucked into oblivion. Personally, I don't think we're supposed to be listening to that. I think it's cursed material. Yeah, seriously. It's kind of like when you find an old book in like the basement of the cottage,

you're renting and you end up in an evil dead situation. Exactly. Listening to the sound of a black hole is probably like the space equivalent of that. Probably. No good's going to come of it. Because they have to like raise that frequency up a ton. Like we're not even supposed to hear that. There's literally a reason.

And I know it. Yeah. If you mess with like frequencies and stuff in audio, you're just, you're asking to open up a portal or hear the voice of a ghost. And it's 100%. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. But we're all like, sounds cool though. Let me hear that.

Glad to hear it. Yeah. I will talk to you after you do it. There you. Yeah. You do it. I'll talk to you about it. For real.

Yeah. All right, guys. Are you ready for me to lighten things up with, uh, the white thing? Fang? Literally thing. Have you ever seen Mean Girls, Jordan? No, but describing it as the white thing. I think I'm excited for whatever this is.

I'm stoked because immediately there's this line and mean girls where this very creepy boy is like, I'd rather see you up there shaking that fang. And then his friend is like, did you just say fang? And the first thing we thought all I could think of. And I was like, I am doing this. The white thang. The white thing. It's actually a purse.

We got very like American names things. Mine are so America, it hurts. It's so America. So the white thing is from Alabama. And personally, I would like to see the white thing try out for Bama Rush. There you go. Have you seen any of like the Bama Rush stuff going on on TikTok, Jordan? I'm sure.

I think the answer is no. Tick what? Yeah. No, I don't go on TikTok. Oh, TikTok is great. It gets personalized like for your taste. And that's exactly why. don't go on it because it's like it would immediately start showing me like someone steam cleaning a rug and

I'd just be like transfixed. Yep. Yes. It'd be three in the morning and they'd be pressure washing their deck and I go. Oh my God. I do get those videos and they're so satisfying. I love that. Exactly. But and that's why I can't go on them because it's like it's it can go right into my soul and be like, Jordan, you cannot look away from this. You're staying up late tonight, like it or not. Yeah. It's a dirty rug. It's very detrimental. It's a dirty rug. All right. Well, we'll move on from TikTok, and I'll tell you that most sightings of the Alabama White Thang occur in this triangle between Morgan, Ettawa and Jefferson counties. And people have reported sightings in Walnut Grove, Moody's Chapel, Happy Hollow, and Wheeler Wildlife Refuge, just to name a few. Okay. So several accounts described the white thing as being seven to eight feet tall covered in this really thick white hair.

almost like a, almost like a Yeti. And other descriptions of the famous creature paint a picture that sounds a little bit more like a lion, a white lion, because sometimes it will walk on all fours, and then other times you'll see it upright. But among some of the more strange descriptions reported, one, I was just like, that's the weirdest of all.

It's a tall white creature standing roughly seven feet tall and resembling a kangaroo with the head of a cat. Oh my. did not picture that. Yeah. That was not what was in my head. And on top of that, so it's massive. Perhaps it looks like a kangaroo, perhaps a cat. And kangaroos are like jacked. Yeah, kangaroos are really scary. They are. They will kick you in the face. So be careful. And I think this thing might too, because it's pretty agile. It's like super, super fast. It can run at you. It can run away from you. It can run wherever it wants. Here, they're everywhere.

Yeah. And many people say that. There's two differing variations on what it sounds like when it makes a noise. Some people feel like it is a woman screaming, and other people think it sounds more like a panther. Oh. Now, he's pretty stinky. He's said to smell like dead animals, and if he's around, you are sure to smell him. And if you spot him, you're going to know, because first of all, you'll smell him coming. And second of all, you will see his glowing red eyes.

So creepy. Now, his legend dates all the way back to the 40s, and here is one experience that I found from Old Man George Norris. I'm obsessed with this already. So somebody reports that Old Man George Norris seen it over there in the graveyard, and he said it looked like a lion. You know, bushy, but tweaked a dog and a lion. It was white and slick with long hair. It had a slick tail down on the end of the tail of a big old bush of hair. He lent up against a tree and fell asleep.

And when he woke up, the sun was just rising. And the white thang was lying right beside him. It was looking at him. He said it didn't offer to hurt him or nothing. He just wanted to snuggle. Wow. I think he might just be a stinky, huge beast with glowing red eyes that simply wants to snuggle. I also love that it said it didn't offer to hurt him.

Like, do people often offer? You want me to hurt you? Do you want me to hurt you? Well, the white thing will not. offer to her you you heard it here first white thing i guess it's good that it offers it's it i mean there you go so random i just wants to well i'm trying like this old man norris or whatever the name was i think i wonder if thang like that word is coming from his manner of speech yeah but like over the you know the way he was talking but i just i feel like thang is still out of place yeah i i think

they need to rebrand this this beast no i don't know i don't you're like it you're like Well, it does stay down. Would you have, would you have pick this story if it was the white thing? No. No, it was the thing for me. Maybe it's smart marketing. I think it is. I think that could be what it comes down to.

And it probably is because it was hard to find anything about this because I had to dig through many webpages of like plush toys and trading cards and like all this merch for the white fang. Like actually merch related to this animal? Yeah, you can literally get a plushy of the white thing. It's like the Flatlands monster. I'll send you one. Wow. You can have your very own white thing. White thing.

And it could just lay next to me. Yeah. And not even offer to hurt me. And if it does offer, I can choose if I want to be here or not. Choose your own adventure. Exactly. It's a this story though, it's a this man waking up, waking up with it in bed with him. He describes it as like it doesn't sound like a wild animal because he's like,

didn't he not say its hair was all slicked back? And like it seems like this thing like did itself up before it got in bed. This white thing got all dressed up and climbed in bed. I think he was he was looking for for a fella. He got his mojo back and he was ready to try it out. Well, you know, old man George Norris didn't seem to be too scared because he just lent up next to a tree and fell asleep. Yeah. So.

He clearly wasn't threatened by this seven foot tall stanky creature. Yeah, that guy needs a podcast. He does. He does. I don't know if he's still alive anymore. Are you out here old man? I know. When was that?

And he was old man then? Closer to the 40s. Probably not. Yeah. I'm guessing he's not up for hosting a podcast. He died. But sadly, they didn't. Yeah, maybe well.

We can do a seance. Maybe that's disrespectful. But we should like someone like that, that's, they had radio and stuff back then. Someone should have interviewed this guy. If this, someone in my town had a story like that, no matter what you'd be on it is. If like if it exists, if I was a reporter with a pen and paper or someone with a microphone, you know, I would interview this guy. Absolutely. That story for the ages.

Oh, yeah. You never let the white thing just be lost history. Yeah. Or, well, I guess it isn't lost to history if there's all this reference to it online. But it, but the true story is certainly obscured by the, you know, the passage of time. Yeah, it's lost. Lost in translations. And we'll never know if he was looking for a cuddle or to kill.

Or both. And then as far as what it actually looks at, what it actually looks like. So the first description was between a kangaroo or a kangaroo with a cat's head. Yep. Which is kind of nuts. Because I guess a kangaroo kind of has a horse's head. So that'd be a weird looking kangaroo. And then old man Norris said it was betwixt a dog and a lion.

And a lion. Okay. So that's. Okay. Which is cat-like. And maybe the lower half of a kangaroo could be somewhat dog-like. Like a really jacked dog standing on its side legs. We also have to think that this was old man, Norris, who then took a nap next to a tree when he first saw.

It may not have had the best sight or choice-making skills. And this probably wasn't the first wild tale, he told. Probably not. He's got pockets full of wild tales, I know. He leaves the house and he ends up seeing it. some white thing. Oh, for sure. He certainly does.

I thank him for the white thing. I love Old Man Norris. We're one out for Old Man Norris. Seriously. I love the ones that you picked so much. Every time we get to you is going to be a delight. You're welcome. So my next one is not as hilarious or cute as that.

It does have a funny, a funny little element to it. It makes sense, though. We're on brand right now. We are. This is called the Banshee of, The Badlands. Yeah, that's so on brand for you. So this is found in South Dakota, where the bad lands is like this very craggy,

dehydrated stretch of land. It's been described as hell with the fires out. Oh, that's nice. Wonderful. Paint you a picture. It's desolate, outrageously hot, but it can also get crazy cold at night. It's one of those places that has like the worst of both. It can get well over 100 degrees out there.

there's basically zero sources of hydration. Great. There's really nothing for us out there. But apparently there's also actually smoke that just rises up from beneath the ground. And there's no real reason for it. Like there's the possibility that some like hellish underworld is right beneath your feet there. But I think it's just like coal veins that are still smoldering underground probably. I could see that.

But it really adds to the aesthetic out there. And there's this place out there called Watchdog Butte, which even locals apparently have a tough time pointing out or finding. It's like this very ominous just place that they know exists. And on Watchdog Butte, there is a straight up banshee. She just hangs out there on the hill and just flails around looking terrifying, like just stands up there, flailing her arms. Like a car wash guy? Like the wacky inflatable arm man. Yeah, at Kursa, I don't see car wash.

I see those at like when you're selling cars. Exactly. It's like you're right. It goes down and up. That's what she's doing all the time. And she has flowing fabric. So she's very theatrical. Very Stevie Nix.

Very Steve. It's just Stevie Nix up there. If you told me Stevie Nix was a bans, she'd be like, probably. Probably. But if you happen to be camping down in the canyon, which I'm not sure why you would. But if you are, because people do those things, she's going to come get you. somebody's going to be a problem now banshees in case you were wondering are like a fairy type creature from irish folklore it's not a welcome site you don't want to see a banshee it's like a curse right because not only are they

terrifying and loud as fuck which would be my problem with it i hate over stimulating sounds it freaks me out but when you witness their screams it's really an omen of death so it's saying that you're either going to die or someone in your family or someone close to you is going to die So if you see one, that's like bad news bears. But no one is quite sure of her origin, but she is a woman who everyone agrees was probably brutally murdered because how else do you become a vanchi, I suppose? Truth. There's all these stories and legends that she was this young woman who was pushed off the top of the cliffs and into the canyons. Oh, and maybe that's why she's flailing.

Yeah, because she's scared. She's like, like, or she's like still tumbling and oblivion, you know? Just always, just a loop. That's freaky. Now she's mad, which can we blame her? No, absolutely not. Resounding, no. If she's angry, she has a rape. If she's angry, we all are. We all are. Together.

We are with her. Now, apparently she will run at a traveler who is passing through with her arms flailing. So she's going to run down that hill at you, arms flailing. She was running up that way. Yes. That's perfect. Literally wearing the shirt. But yeah, she's going to run at you. She's not screaming yet. She's going to run at you, arms flailing, flowing fabric. fabric everywhere, the perfect picture of a banshee in your mind. When you walk towards her, which like, I don't know why you would. But if you do, if you walk towards her, she's going to become eerily quiet and very calm.

No, no, no, no, no. And she's just going to stand there and stare at you. No. You're going to ask her what's wrong. I wouldn't. But like if you do, if you ask her what's wrong, don't do that. Because then she's going to stare at you for a minute. And then out of nowhere, her jaw is going to unhinge.

Her eyes are going to roll back and turn black and she will just scream at you. This theatrical bitch. She rolls her eyes into the back of her head just to mess with you. And turns it black. And her jaw unhinges and she just wails at you. I love her. Overstimulation for me. I would have cardiac arrest immediately.

Like that would just be it. She's letting the trauma out of her nervous system. I love it. I love it. It sounds like that like the, like the human embodiment of like rage and chaos and panic like this this banshees freak me out the idea of just stumbling upon someone who is just like fingernails and teeth and squealing and screaming and just so angry the idea of her just dropping to completely calm yeah that would be the

scariest would be like what the hell is about to happen and then the jaw unhinges and you're like oh that's about to happen yeah i think i want to be a banshee in my next life i think i'm feeling inspired I'm feeling good about it. It also kind of makes me think of like a wraith. A wraith is a really like angry, raging spirit. So I'm wondering if they just like labeled her a banshee and she's actually just a race. Yeah, because banshees are usually on the water, right? They are.

They're on the water a lot. And they're like, I don't know if I just don't see one out in the bad lands, but I suppose, like, you know, what am I to say? I mean, banshee, I've documented all of them. I think one thing that'll separate a banschee from other things of that nature. I think the banshee, the idea is that it's always freaking out going completely wild. So it's a race that they could be a bit more like ghostly where a banshee would just be squealing, high-pitched, losing their mind at you, where you would immediately panic if you saw someone in that state. Oh, yeah. I like the idea that, you know, maybe she was falling and she's kind of stuck in it.

That would make sense because she'd just be flailing and flipping out. Yeah. Right. It makes sense. But all of this is really terrifying. Like she sounds terrifying. There's no good here. But there is a part that's kind of funny in a way.

Like a little bit of funny. So she hasn't come alone, everybody. She's a friend. She's not by herself. She has a pal. She has a pal. And her pal and her is a skeleton that just walks next to her. And if he, yeah.

This is iconic. This is epic news. And if he, it gets even better. So he's just a skeleton. And when he hears music, presumably good. music, he will just bust out a fiddle of his own and play you into a trance. Wow. It reminds me of that song that you used to freaking love like the devil came back.

Oh yeah. That was from Coyote Ugly. I used to watch that all the time. I love that. So you see, full circle, but he loves music and he'll sometimes also. So like there's that. He'll play you into a trance and that's bad. We'll get to that in a second.

But sometimes he just loves music so much that he'll like kind of separate from her for a little bit. And if he hears it. in your camp, he'll come and just sit outside of your camp and listen to your music, especially if you're playing good old-timey cowboy music. He loves that. And you'll just hear rattling bones in the woods. And it's just him like grooving in the woods to your music. I'm getting like, whoa, ho, listen to the music. He's living. He's living. He's living. He's not though, because he's a skeleton.

And this is very true. Now, it sounds great. Like that's, he's just dancing. But here's the rub. If he decides he wants to play music with you, like if he's dancing out there and he's like, I have to get into this. I'm feeling it. And he starts playing any music. You cannot listen to it.

You have to stop listening to it like in hocus pocus when the townspeople throw down the spellbook on the ground because they're singing. Yep, yep. And they have to cover their ears. You have to do that because if he decides to bop along with his jaunty tune with you, you're toast. He will, because as the sun rises, he'll walk. your entranced ass into a canyon you just groove into the canyon and he will rip you limb from

limb so that got so dark so fast it's like he might come and have a little jam bang with you and then he will rip you limb from limb it's different from the the watchers there where like you're gonna take that risk of like just biving with them for a second because i don't see anything really bad happening this one i don't think you want to take no take that that sounds like they would get up and close where the watcher, I picture like you just kind of seeing them up on the mountaintop looking down the ridge at you where this seems like the, you know, the banshee's running towards you squealing, waving her arms, hair and fabric everywhere, with a skeleton playing a fiddle. And what we haven't talked about in this story is chances are, why would his fiddle be in tune? And I think, I don't think it would be.

And the idea of just someone playing the super out of tune fiddle. I didn't even think of that. And, you know, the bow sucks. So it's just a scratching attitude mess and it's dancing. And she's screaming and running at you, you'd be like, what the hell? That is my nightmare. Because again, that would be so much overstimulation of sound for me and just like fucked up sounds. Adding to the fanfic, I feel like the bow would just be his femur.

Oh, right? Not his femur. Someone else's fee. That's why he rips you limb from limb. It would be your fever. He needs a new bow every now and again. He sure does. Or like a tendon,

stretched on a femur. Mm-hmm. Gross. It's still rotting and like, oh, man. Oh, yeah. And all you can hear is just his out of tune fiddle. That's, eh. I don't like the story.

And the lump of flesh that hits it every now and again, you know. You know. Yeah, but he loves it and he's dancing to it. He loves it. And you can hardly, you can only hear it above her scream. Yeah. The banshees flood. Why are these two together though?

That's what I want to know. I was wondering that too. I couldn't find anything that said why they hang out together. Maybe they just. I wonder if they were separate, and they were kind of living their own things. And maybe one day he was just like fiddling over in the corner somewhere and he saw her like launch down the ridge at someone.

And he was like, that's my kind of woman. Maybe he thought she'd be like a good screamo partner. Yeah, he was like, she screamed so loud. She can add vocals. Ooh, is she singing? If his out of tune fiddle that he's playing with like a human femur, maybe that's her way of singing dancing. Yeah, she thinks she's singing.

Yeah, it's like opera. The worst band. The worst. The actual worst. I love it. Like, I don't know. I'm into it. Well, there's a lot of layers to it.

I think it's a really cool kind of fable or tale or whatever, but how it would, how it came to, like, what would be interesting, honestly, if you could trace back the history of the story to see, like, where it came from. Because most of these kind of stories of cryptids or fables or legends or whatever, they have, like, a beginning or an origin that makes sense. But this one, I can't possibly imagine what it is. Oftentimes, it's like a lot of these stories come from either the parents or the adults in the community or the church trying to scare kids into out of doing blank. But whoever, like, let's say if this is to scare kids from going into the woods alone at night, whoever came up with this has an amazing imagination.

They do. Because they just tacked on a skeleton. Yeah. You can't go into the woods tonight, kids. Why not? Well. Sit down. Let me tell you about this duo that you might run into.

I actually have like a stay out of the woods, cautionary tale, but I think yours is much better. I feel the skeleton really like, I dig him. Completes it. Yeah, he really does. I have a story that it's going to be a step away from this story. I cannot possibly think of a segue out of what we just talked about. No, there isn't one. I'm good with that.

This is a story that like I think a lot of modern kind of myths and legends and fables, they kind of take a different shape nowadays. It's often like I think some missing persons cases kind of get kind of are told like a modern kind of fable when you really get down to it. But a lot of UFO sightings and stories do. Canada, for whatever reason, maybe because we have a lot of a lot of land area that doesn't contain like major cities. So you really get a good look at the sky from a lot of parts of Canada. UFO stories are quite a thing here. So before I tell you one, and I'll tell you Canada's most famous UFO story, before I do, though, are either of you believers in extraterrestrial life for the idea that UFOs come here? Yes, absolutely.

I think I'm an alien. That makes some sense. There's that. I feel like I can kind of know. Right. I believe there's something. I just don't know or understand what it is. I think there just has to be. Like it's a crazy thought that we're the only people here.

Yeah. Or in like in here as in like the galaxy. Exactly. Yeah. Like why would be so lucky that we are the only living things on a planet full of living things. Right. Exactly. What makes this place so amazing?

It's just, you know, that I think it would be more amazing that there wouldn't be life. Exactly. On our planet then there being. It's just a matter of, you know, I think how close. it is to Earth as well as close in proximity but also in terms of time. So like maybe there was this incredible civilization, but we're just, you know, 500 million years too late to witness it. So there needs to be within the proximity of us, but also within the same time we need to have, you know, the question there is like is there life within the same proximity in time as us?

But if there is, I think it may have visited, and I don't, don't want you to laugh. There's a place in Nova Scotia, probably a three-hour drive from where I live, and it's called Shag Harbor. You ever heard of it? I'm not mad at that. I have heard of that. You have heard of it? Yeah. Okay. I love it. Whenever like this story gets brought up, usually the first thing is Shag Harbor. Shag Harbor. And you can imagine. You can imagine where it goes. That was a good one. In the United States or anywhere in the world, when you think of famous UFO stories that the government are investigating. Usually you think of like Roswell, New Mexico is probably the big one.

In Shag Harbor, Nova Scotia, Canada, a small fishing community, a UFO sighting happened on October 4th, 1967 that most people would call it Canada's Roswell. Like if you Google Canada's Roswell, this is what's going to come up. It's an amazing story, both because the amount of witnesses, like it's not something where, you two guys out in the woods see a weird light. This is like an entire community sees it. I love these. They respond to it.

The police investigate, the Canadian Coast Guard investigates, the Navy investigates, and where Canada has a pretty open system for access to information, you can see through the documents from the time how seriously this was taken by all these different parties. I'll tell you what happened. The best way to follow the story is by following along with the first person who reports it. And when I say the first person, this is something that multiple people called what at the time would have been the equivalent of 911 to report an emergency. So the main story can be told by following this guy named Lori Wiccans.

He was, I think about 19 at the time. Again, we're back in 1967. He was a fisherman. he's in his vehicle with three other friends. And they're leaving a dance, like a small dance in the community. And Shag Harbor is very remote. It's pretty much one or two roads, both that follow the coastline. And it's a fishing community.

Pretty much everyone in this community either works as fishermen or works in a trade that would kind of collaborate with fisher people. But anyway, they're driving home from the dance. It's a little after 11 o'clock at night, obviously pitch black. As they're driving home, they see what's described as like a triangular shape in the sky. So three lights on each point of the triangle forming a triangular shape. And it's kind of flying alongside them up above the tree line. And they think like, huh, it's weird that there's, you know, a large jet flying above the tree line in the middle of nowhere tonight.

And, you know, they notice it. assuming it's an airplane flying very low. And as the road kind of twists and turns and the tree line changes along with that, they will lose side of it and then regain side of it as they get the right vantage point. But eventually what happens over the period of five minutes of driving alongside this thing, they see it pass over the road that they're driving on, very high above them and they still can't see exactly what it is, but are assuming it's a plane.

They watch it past the road, like go over the road, driving along and they watch it slowly descend into the water of Shag Harbor, which is on the the left side of their vehicle. And when I say descend, like they hear a wush and a large crashing splashing sound. Oh, I feel like I just saw a plane crash. That sucks. And that's exactly what they said. They stopped the car for a second to be like, whoa, like did we just see a plane crash. And they see about a, I think they describe it as being about a thousand feet from the shore. So a good distance out, they see lights in the water. They don't hear anything, but they think, what they believe they see is like the plane slowly sinking down into the water. So they get back in

the car, they travel up the road a little bit to a gas station where they call like first responders. It wasn't 911 at the time. We didn't have that system, but it was basically like phoning police. The police tell them, you know, we're going to send someone out right away. Go back to the shore and, you know, if anyone needs help, help them. So Lori and his crew travel back to the shore, get out of their car, still seeing this light. Other people begin coming out of their houses because other people have seen this and heard it. So people in the area start showing up. Multiple people are calling the emergency line.

and what eventually happens is a group of the fishermen who are meeting at the water, and this is all within the period of like 20 minutes, they get on a fishing boat to go out to the light, assuming that they're going to go out and find people splashing in the water, fighting for their lives if they survive the plane crash. By the time they get out there, the light has slowly been dimming. By the time they get out, they cannot see the light. Instead, what they find is like this thick, green, sulfuric-smelling,

foam and they described it as in lorry was one of the people on the boat and i talked to him a few times about this he described it as being thick almost like melted marshmallows or something he said like you know i could put my hand down and like scoop it up and it wasn't people will hear that and think you know maybe it was sea foam which is a common thing but this is like a group of lifelong fishermen who parents were fishermen they're like this was not seafone this was something unique. And it's like thick. Yeah.

Yeah. And smells like sulfur. So I don't know what that could be. But they realize there's no one to save out there. They go back to shore. First official people on the scene is the Canadian Coast Guard who sends out a boat with like bright lights and stuff looking for any kind of, you know, floating pieces of plane. They find nothing.

It's too dark for divers. So they suspend the search until the next morning when Navy divers go down, as soon. they're going to find, you know, again, a sunken airplane because everybody at this point has reported it as a plane crashing, they find nothing. The Canadian government eventually determines that nothing landed in the water, no plane was missing, despite, you know, this whole community kind of witnessing something. To this day, it's changed from a plane crash to some kind of unidentified flying object that landed in the water. And to this day, actually, one month from now is an annual UFO convention that they hold there where all of the witnesses once a year will get up on stage in like the local community hall and tell their story of what they saw. Oh, that's so cool. I want to go to that.

That sounds amazing. It would be. And it's and I went to it a few times. And it's everybody, again, this happened in 67. So all the witnesses are kind of like old man Norris from your prior story. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So it's just a string of people like that who are like, you know, I saw it.

I was on my deck or I was, you know, whatever. And what's interesting, the last thing I'll say about the story is hearing just about what happened to Shag Harbor, what happened in Shag Harbor is only one part of the story. People who've been investigating this and trying to understand what have happened have found other reports of strange objects in the sky that same night that are very credible. One was a report from two pilots of an Air Canada plane, like commercial, commercial plane, who was, I think, about two or three hours away from Shag Harbor, who report it through official means a strange object in the sky alongside the airplane.

They thought it was another airplane, but it turned out it wasn't. And it was traveling towards Shag Harbor. So kind of the narrative that forms is this idea of a – and when you come, kind of put all the sightings and reports together. It tells the story of like a strange object flying across Canada, landing in the waters of Shag Harbor to never be found again. I am obsessed with those kind of stories. That's such a good one.

So creepy. Like the fact that like nothing comes of it, like finding it is so I don't even know the word. It's like ominous. And that that many people saw the same exact thing. It's like how does that happen? Yeah. You know it has to be real.

And that's what makes it really special. Like when you hear like a UFO story, it's like two guys are out their cottage and they saw this. It's like, maybe they're like, maybe they were stoned. Yeah, they were probably stone. But when you have like, you know, like 30 people or something, and I think even the individual reports made about this, I think there was like five or 10 calls to like emergency responders as it happened. So it's like people all over were seeing it. That's wild. We had one of those in like the Bridgewater Triangle that like over a dozen people called from like separate.

areas to say and it was all the same description everything and you're like that has to be something how can that not yeah yeah exactly but then it becomes a question like what of what could it have been and one of where is it yeah well one of the leading theories with shag harbor and this is interesting is at the time in 67 was kind of on the tail end of the cold war and the American government had surveillance kind of satellites that would travel around an as they orbit at Earth, when it got over, you know, whatever, Russia or whatever, it would start taking photos. And back then, it wasn't digital cameras.

So they had to develop the film. Eventually, what would happen is as the satellite came back around North America, it would drop these packages of its film. And it would have a flare affixed to it. So a lot of people believe what was seen in Shag Harbor was one of these kind of film canisters being dropped from this satellite. I guess the satellite that would have been used was in that area, like, well, high, high in the sky, but around that time. So it is, and the idea would be it would drop from the sky by flare, and then a submarine would pick it up and take off and look at the photos.

Just kind of cool. Oh, that's interesting. But even if that's what it is, that's still cool. Yeah, that's still really cool. Ooh, I love that. It's a wild tale. I don't really, again, not a really good way to transition out of that, because I'm not. That's like real good.

That's a good one. It's like an ad. This is like a, this is probably an ad break story. I think it is. Yeah. Insert ad here. And then we're going to take you to Missouri to visit Mo Mo Mo the monster.

Of course we are. We had white thing. No, we got Mo Mo Mo. No, we got Mo Mo Mo. Wasn't what was the name of that? Remember that weird face that was going on? Was that? Yeah.

I think it was. Their name was Momo as well. Two momos. All right. Go on. This is a different Momo. Who's worse? Honestly, I think this MoMo is kind of cuter, if you know.

Okay, cool. So, Momo was first spotted in the 70s, and Momo is a big foot-like creature who's covered in thick black fur, unlike the white thing. Okay. But also said to be so foul smelling that it will make your eyes water. Why do they all smell? Well, I mean, think of a wet dog. Yeah.

And they live in the woods. Yeah, they live in the woods. It rains. It pours. There's dead animals. There's odors. It eats things. It probably gets guts on it.

And I wonder if it does the dog thing where it rolls around and like in the dead sense. Like Bubba used to roll around and dead animal if she found one, which was like so heinous. Always so welcome and so great. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a territorial thing. And then imagine the dead things that these could rub themselves all over. Yeah.

Huge, huge dead rubbing. Gross. But the only facial feature that people can make out when they encounter this Momo animal is that he, too, has glowing red or orange. orangey eyes. I bet they're all in the same family. I think so. I think they're all in the Bigfoot family. But they can't make out any like mouth or nose, just the eyes because he's so covered

in fur. Now the first spotting, like I said, was in the 70s and this little girl spotted him. Her brothers were playing outside and she was inside and all the sudden she hears, and these are like older boys. They're in their teenage years and she hears them screaming, like shrieking. And she's like, what the heck? So she goes, she peeks out the window and she sees. a seven-foot-tall monster, again, with glowing reddish-orange eyes.

Like, imagine how terrifying that would be. Yeah, no. And then on top of that, he had a dead dog in tow. He's just holding a dead dog tucked under his arm. Rude. So they all run inside. They, like, go to their mom, and this thing just, like, cruises through. All right.

He was just passing by. So more and more people started claiming that they saw him shortly after this incident was reported. And others thought they heard him in the world. woods late at night, kind of like the video that you played for us, Jordan. And his screams are said to be just like inhuman. And his roars are similar to a bear, again, like you were saying, but people say it's not quite that. Like it's similar, but it's not quite that. Probably the same kind of thing. Yeah, those ones. Maybe this is what your friend encountered.

So the fire chief himself, Richard Allen Murray, way back then, said, and again, around the 70s, said one night he was driving home, driving along late at night. And he spotted, as he was driving. He said, I was amazed to see something. I thought it was a bunch of nonsense, but then I saw something. And he believed it to be Momo. So he starts telling people, he's also, in addition to being the fire chief, he was on the city council.

So he gets this group of men together. They're going to fight Momo. A vigilance committee. Yes. I think they gathered about 25 men. And they wanted to hunt whatever the hell this was. So they went out into the woods and they decided to. Why?

And on July 19th, This is a real newspaper clipping. Shout out to newspapers.com. The St. Louis Post Dispatch wrote a piece on the hunt saying, quote, 25 men trudged over wooded hills today and what authority said was the first monster hunt of this Mississippi River town. But they found not even a trace of a rabbit or a squirrel, let alone the shaggy beast that witnesses say walks erect. And then one person commented, we didn't even see a leaf that was turned over, said one disappointed searcher.

Whatever the monster is, it has not bathed recently, according to those who say they've seen it. The reports say that the approach can be detected by a foul odor long before the creature is seen. Unfair, because like you said, maybe he has bathed and he just doesn't have a towel. Exactly. So he smells like a wet dog. He's just a little stanky. Maybe it's the dead dog that stinks, the one that he's carrying. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's not even blame the monster. The decaying animal.

Yeah, it could be that. Now, so that search didn't turn up anything at all, but then there was another search, and they found tracks that they were like, I think that could be Momo's feet. Yeah. So they submit them to the Oklahoma City Zoo, the director. His name was Lawrence Curtis. And Lawrence Curtis said that these tracks were like he had never seen before.

And he said they were that of an unknown primate. Like MoMA. So I think MoMo could be lurking out there, you guys. I like MoMA. I don't want to hunt him, though. Yeah. I mean, do I love the dead dog thing? No, but I understand Circle of Life.

It kind of gives me of mice and men vibes. Maybe he's a gentle beast and he didn't realize that he had killed the dog by accident. Maybe he didn't kill the dog. Yeah. Maybe the dog was already dead and he was like, well, don't want to leave this for someone else. Truth. Well, I think the dead dog, it's a bit of a red herring. We're culturally, we're like, it's not cool to carry a dead dog.

But I think some other animals or life forms may come in our kitchen and look at what we got in our fridges and stuff and be like, exactly cold box with a bunch of shredded up cow yes you know like they're like that's gross and weird yeah so this guy whatever it is it's just maybe that's food and that is where it stores it and i don't think we should be judging that no i agree i don't think we should judge momo at all i think we should let momo live justice for momo is what i said i heard it here first i hate when a bunch of men decide to get together and they're like let's hunt this thing and it's like why though there was like beauty and the beast i'm like he's a beautiful creature it is leave him alone.

Like, I pictured Gaston at the head of that with like torches with a stupid little sidekick. Yeah. I think they're just lucky. These 25 men are lucky they didn't stumble upon this thing because I think it would be about 17 dead men at the end of it. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Mama would have took them to town. And like an injured innocent animal.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't hear in the story unless I missed it. I don't think he really did anything other than freak some people out because of carrying a dog and stinking. Yeah. It seems like he's just like most Bigfoot. just like walking around and people see him and they're like, oh, he's big and scary. Let's kill him.

Yeah. Let's get 25 men. 25 men to go out. Let's prove how manly we are. Let's go kill Momo. For mom. Quick, someone let all the women know we're doing something. Exactly.

It reeks of that. They can be a better. Yeah, seriously. Before we go, let's tell the women. I love it. Well, I'm staying in the woods. So there's the segue for that. Mine is a.

A little difference. Mine is called the not deer. So is it a deer? No. That's the one thing that's known about this story. Is it not a deer? Not a deer. It is called the not deer.

It's found in Tennessee. Oh. And it's the only 10 I see. Oh, look at that. And it's found throughout Appalachia. So you can see it anywhere. Okay. And basically people see it in the forest and think it's just this massive deer because it's

really huge. And it looks like that. at first you're like oh a big deer but then you look and you look a little harder and it's not a deer it has all these weird joints and antlers and limbs almost appearing broken oh like the legs can bend outward like they're all seem like they're broken in weird jett ways it looks a fool when you actually look at it it is acting a fool one of the things that people report most is that they that's like the weirdest part and how they're able to be like that's not a deer is it has eyes that are on the front of its head instead of towards the sides.

Okay. Which is normally attributed to a predator. Oh. So that's great. I didn't realize that. Yeah. And its eyes can also be weirdly human-like, which whenever you see an animal that has, like, human eyes. Get away for me.

Like, you ever seen those dogs that have eyes that look like a Victorian child is trapped inside of it? Like, that's what I picture. It's like these, like, sad Victorian eyes looking at you. I don't know why. It blows my own eyes. It's stressful. And they feel like they have this weird human-type presence about them, people have said. Because they're broken.

Like, they don't look, probably. They don't look human-like, but they just have a feeling of like, I feel like they are judging me or something. Like, it's a very human-like feel to it. There's times where I see like a screwed up animal and I'm like, I know how you feel, man. Yeah. You can just like same. That is me. Not dear.

You showed me a not dear and like, I can relate. And we were both like, yeah. Yeah. Me too. And all reports say that those who witnessed it in person just get this weird feeling of being deeply unsettled. Which at first I was like, that's probably because you're seeing what you just described. Like I would also feel unsettled. I think just that's a natural reaction.

But people said it wasn't just that initial like fear feeling of like what the hell is that. It's like this palpable feeling of dread and just and everybody described it as wrongness. just not right, whatever it was. And wrongness may be because some reports said that it has human hands or paws for arms, and it walked on two deer-like hind legs. So it walks on its hind legs and just kind of like curves of its regular hands or paw fronts. Maybe it's a little monster. Pause up.

There you. Pause up. Gaga. But also some witnesses I saw said that. And I hate this. I don't know why this freaks me out so much. Its mouth hangs open and it's like its tongue will hang out. You showed me a video and I hate, hate, hate, hate, loathe entirely.

Yeah, I don't like when it's just like bloke. Like, it's just like, yeah, I don't know. You don't like that, but you're bringing a lot of that to the table today. I'm bringing it for you. I'm doing this all for you, putting myself in a very unsettled position. But its eyes also glow brighter than normal because you know how when you like flashlight on a deer's eyes, you can see it. or it has too many eyes

which would be more than two for me I'm sure everybody else feels that way so this is just not a deer I watched this TikToker again but I'm not going to mention their name because at first I was like oh I'm going to shout them out so that everybody goes to their thing but then they were like stop asking me about the fucking not dear and I was like okay I won't

I won't shout you out so delete the video then so don't ask them about the fucking not dear but I'm not going to say their name. But they had a lot of experiences while living here with the not deer. They said they ran into one one night and like they were just walking on their property like outside. I think it was their grandparents house. And they said the mouth was like indeed hanging open way too wide. They said it was way too.

It wasn't just like a deer that's like because it's like, I don't know. When dears get like bonked on the head can sometimes they be like, boo like and just like there with your mouth open. Perhaps. Maybe. Is that what they do? I don't know. I just feel like when things get bonged on then sometimes, do they make that noise as well? I'm a bear, but... But this was way too wide. They said it stretched from ear to ear, like the opening.

Like it was unnatural. No, no. Another time they said they encountered another not deer during the day, and their eyes shone like dears do, but at night, but it was during the day. Like it's shown like it was flashing something on it, but they They said almost every time they have seen not deer, they also have a ton of sharp teeth in their mouth, like not deer teeth. They're like carnivorous teeth. Yeah, so that's predatory to me. I literally wrote here, check out this person's stuff on cryptids. Don't.

Don't do it. I don't tell you who they were. But it's really fast, too. It's really fast, which is not great because it's all like bent and gnarly, but it can like launch itself at it. you and I imagine there's all like as it's running since it's so screwed out there'd be some weird sounds coming like yeah like snapping and cracking and flapping flesh and just like uh ugh and it's can be up to 30 miles per hour it can run at you damn and since it's a predator with those eyes that's that's bad and there are reports of people getting chased by them and being able to like jump somewhere

or climb something to get away from it yeah but wow I'd love like to bring us all down to logic time for a second, just for a quick second, because I was like, what the fuck is this? So, Claire, what is this? Some of these are definitely just real deers, I think, that it might be suffering from something called chronic wasting disease. Oh, or they just get human hands all of a sudden? Well, I think that's just people, well, who knows? Maybe there are not deers out there that, like, look like that. But I think some of these sightings might be attributed to this. It's this neurological virus that only, like, deer, moose, elk, like those kind of species kind of dudes can get. It's fatal. And it, um, and the symptoms

can be massive weight loss, which can make joints look a little. Yeah. Narls and mutated. They, they'll stumble around because it's neurological. They get like, they make weird sounds. Sometimes the mouth can hang open a little bit and they lose their fear of humans. So they will just come at you. Like that's usually deer will run away from you. That's so sad. But honestly, That's kind of not a deer either. So it's not. It doesn't make sense at the end. That's sad.

I hate it the end. Sorry. Yeah, well, that's what I guess one theory, but it's like, that's pretty dark if that's what it is. But the idea of like if you see an animal that's at the end of its life, you don't know that. That's just the one time you see the animal. So if this thing is wasting away, it's all screwed up and disoriented and bizarre. Yeah, that's freaky. Isn't that scary?

Either way, it's scary. Yeah. I hope a lot of them aren't sick and I hope it's more just not deer. Yeah. What I was thinking as you were describing it, I was thinking like it sounds like a deer that like just got hit by a car or something. That's what I thought too. And it like it managed to survive,

but it's just it's half broken and it's going on adrenaline. And that's pretty freaky too. Yeah. And it's just sad. And they can make weird noises when they're hurt and sick. Like yeah. Like literally growl like yeah. So who knows?

Maybe there are not dears, but. But there's also like there's a chance you could run into it. Let's say just if the tables are turned, you're a deer and you encounter a human. And the only thing you know about humans are like the typical average human you would normally see like a healthy, middle aged animal fully clothed doing its thing. And you just happen to stumble upon a human who has like the worst stomach flu ever. And you're like, I saw it. It was just puking and it was rolling around. Then it was awful.

Yeah, groaning. Yeah, but it's like maybe this not dear is just the equivalent of like by chance you stumble upon a human who has like this horrible. Who has like the neurovirus. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It just makes me want to knock on wood. That's true. I know.

Or COVID. It's just like it has like this raspy voice and it was hacking. Yes. Can't taste anything. Can't. from the joint pain. Yeah, it has like a ventilator hooked up. It had this machine that was breathing for it.

It must have been a monster. It's true. It was a white thing. It was a white thing. We've come full circle. Wonderful. I think the only way to segue from whatever the heck that was, the not deer, is to pirate treasure.

Would that be a natural step? Yeah, of course. People all over the world, known Nova Scotia. So again, I'm from a province called Nova Scotia in Canada. We are known for very little. There's not much famous things about Nova Scotia that people would be like,

oh, you're from the place that has blank. However, a few years ago, maybe 10 years ago, a TV show came out called the Curse of Oak Island. I think it's aired on the History Channel and it's probably also aired on other channels around the world. But more often than not, when I tell someone international that I'm from Nova Scotia, if they know what Nova Scotia is, they know it because it's the setting for that television show, The Curse of Oak Island.

I love that. Yeah, well, it's a cool thing to be known for because Oak Island and the Oak Island mystery is the world, I keep wanting to say Canada's, but no, it's the world's longest running active treasure hunt. And what I mean by that is since 1857, people in, you know, one group or another have been actively digging for treasure on a small island in Nova Scotia since, again, since 1857. So my math is horrible. That's over 100 years, 1857, 200. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. Almost 200 years. Yeah, you're right. None of us math here. We all suck it. Yeah. I dropped out of college.

For a tremendous amount of time, people have been actively pursuing treasure. Six people have died during the pursuit of this treasure, all due to all accidental deaths, like one group poisoned themselves, but they dug down so deep into the ground that the gases in the ground basically killed them. Oh, my God. Other people were trying to rescue them. They died in trying to rescue. there was a couple explosions because again when you're talking about digging you know a hundred years ago there's a lot of like unsafe labor that's going on back then but the story's quite

amazing and it's it's it could be its own series of morbid podcast episodes in itself just due to the length of time it's been going on but the way the story goes usually and again every every part of this story is disputed, as is any other 200-year-old story. But basically, the way the story starts is a group of young men see some strange lights on this small uninhabited island called Oak Island. They immediately assume that it's likely someone stashing something. This was a time of prohibition where you couldn't have alcohol, so bootleggers would kind of like hide the alcohol places.

like for example a small island and they do it by boat and then they go collect it later. So these young guys see that, see the lights over on this island and they think, yeah, we'll go over there tomorrow and see what that's all about. When they go over to the island by a little boat the next day, they go to where the light was and they don't see anything obviously hidden, but they do notice a tree that has like a pulley hanging from it, like something you would attach a rope to and there's a depression in the ground below it. not a recently dug depression but an obvious sign that someone had dug or buried or had been using this land before they grab some shovels they start digging and over the period of several days they're doing this work

and as they dig down they dig first 10 feet and what they hit at 10 feet down is a platform of oak logs just a bunch of logs cut side by side and they're like oh well we pull these logs up we're certainly going to find whatever it is, you know, below it. So they pull the logs up and there's more dirt. So they dig down further. They get another 10 feet down. There's now a platform of logs, but on top of the logs is a thick kind of like mat of some kind of material, which has now been learned to be coconut fibers, which is weird because we don't have coconuts on the east coast here of Canada. Except if you dig on Oak Island, there's coconut fibers all over there. But eventually these these guys managed to dig down 90 feet, which is an incredible amount.

Oh, shit. That's, wow, commitment. Hell yeah. And they're finding this platform of logs every 10 feet covered with coconut fibers. When they get down 90 feet, it's like it's the end of one of their work days. Like, I think they spent a few days digging. At the end of the day, they get to the 90th foot mark where there's this platform of logs. But this platform is unique where it has a large,

flat rock with some kind of carving on it. They think, spoiler alert, they do. They think this platform is unique. Whatever's under here is the treasure. But it's, but daylight, like sunlight is going down. So they need to stop work. But before they do, they pull up the rock.

They take it above ground with them. This is a story that includes a lot of kind of booby traps and stuff. So I won't get into all of them, but it appears, or legend would have it, that they fell for the main booby trap by removing this rock. Because up until now, the pit they dug has been dry. They come back the next morning, the pit pretty much right to the surface is filled with water. Many people believe that by pulling up this rock has kind of unlocked something that allowed the pit to fill up. because over the next probably 100 years of trying one company to another, one group of investors to another, they've been digging down trying to find ways to get the water out of there.

But what they have found instead is all of these kind of tunnels that go from different parts of the island underground to this pit. And it's all feeding water. What? So you cannot dig faster than the ocean can refill itself. Wow. So that's kind of how the story. starts but if you jump forward now to present day 2022 the history of this island has included multiple groups getting sucked in by the idea that there's something buried underground that they've multiple people

multiple groups have dedicated their lives some as i mentioned earlier some have died in pursuit of it many have lost every cent they own in trying to find different ways to get under this ground to figure what there is. And there's now a museum on the island that archives a lot of the major discoveries and it's not people going blindly on faith. There's been things found like, you know, 200 feet below ground, a pair of scissors or a piece of parchment paper that has like ornate writing on it for for no reason at all. And now the TV show, the Curse of Oak Island is kind of chronicles the current search and it follows along with the current treasure hunters who, are digging there. And this is something in Nova Scotia, it's what's really unique is, of course,

any community or province or state or whatever, they would have their own laws and bylaws that dictate how people can act. In Nova Scotia, we have a special set of legislation that's called the Treasure Trove Act, which regulates how people use this island for treasure for treasure hunting. So that's very unique. But it's so cool. It is very cool. I want to watch the show now. Well, they don't find much. But what's interesting is when you go through the history of Oak Island, you find people who've done some incredible things and some ingenious ways of getting down deep below ground. For example, one guy who recently passed away, he was from Florida.

And he did a lot of metalworking. And he had read in Reader's Digest, I think in like the 60s, about the history of Oak Island. And he thought using my skills in metalworking, I may have like, you know, some unique skill to offer that may help me take over and or may help me find the treasure. And what he ended up doing was to get down below ground and to prevent water from coming in and the whole thing collapsing on itself, he bought a whole bunch of decommissioned tanker cars that would be on a train like the long, narrow tanks. And what he did was he would put it upright on the ground and dig. go underneath it. So the tanker would slowly kind of slide into a hole that he was digging underneath it. Once it got deep enough, he put another one on top and welded them together and would continue to dig down. So as he was digging, these things were slowly sliding into the ground. And he ended up

getting 180 feet into the ground. Oh my God. I was wondering if someone was going to come up with something like that. Yeah. But he ended up when he got that deep at the bottom of what he had dug was a pool of water and using pretty much like homemade equipment, he dove, like dive down into it. And he believes he saw a treasure chest as well as a skeleton while he was down there. But no one's really ever been able to get down there since. So the jury is. Oh. Yeah.

But whenever I talk to people and tell them where I'm from, very often this comes up. And they're like, what do you think is down there? What do you think is down there? Yeah. What do you think? Well, I don't know. My thing is like what I've always thought about Oak Island. and the treasure hunt is like the idea of their being treasure is is very cool but probably more

interesting than what it could be is like the individual stories of the people who have dedicated life and limb to pursue this kind of insane idea like the guy who who dug the hole in putting the train down there his name was dan blenkinship when i met him he was this he had recently passed away but I think he was like 90 years old, and he just kind of sat in a chair on kind of the entrance to the museum on the island. Just still like it's like if it wasn't for age and time, he would be in a whole digging. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like he loved to talk about it.

It was amazing. And if anyone ever comes to Nova Scotia, like they do tours in the summer where you can kind of see the main spots on the island. And it's all kind of curated and guide it. It's pretty amazing. That's really cool. I want to go and see that. I know. And I wish he had, I wish somebody had found something before he passed away. I know.

But it's, it's one of those things where it's like they're always on the verge of a major discovery. And I've heard about this since I was a kid. Like I think when I was like maybe six years old, my grandparents were telling me about it. But it's fortunately now that this TV show airs, you can kind of see it and, you know, see what they're actually doing. Because when I was a kid, it's like I heard about it and I could see pictures and read books about it. But now you can kind of watch along as they dig, which is pretty neat. That's sick. Really cool.

I think it was a big mistake to move that rock, though. Huge. Whenever you come across an inscribed rock that's hidden 90 feet below the surface, just leave it. Stay away from that rock. Yeah. Yeah. And the rock had carvings, but the rock has been lost since.

So people don't know what it says. Oof. That's even worse. Yeah. Curse indeed. If you are going to grab the rock and pull it up, take care of the rock. Yeah. Hold on to it.

It's important. Do you think somebody has it and they're like hiding it for more of a treasure hunt? Possibly. But the kind of they trace this rock looking for it. People call it the 90 foot stone. It apparently for a while was kept at a book binding business in the area. And they used it as the stone that they would like, I guess when you do book binding, you would like lay the book and like hit it to like make its folds or whatever.

And they would use the, they use the stone as like kind of the main stone. they were using for their book binding business and they had it in the window of the store. They put it to work. That's a bad, bad idea. Yeah, but it's since then they don't know where it is and if it even exists because it's the kind of thing, another part of the Oak Island treasure hunt and I guess maybe the flaw with humanity is someone would dedicate all their time and money to find their way of getting down there. But then eventually they get to a point where they run out of money and they got to cash out.

So there's this idea in mining. They call it salting the mine. And the idea is like just as you want to cash out, you find something of value to make someone else want to buy the mine or whatever off you. So a lot of the things that have happened over history, people think a lot of them are maybe just investors wanting to cash out and planting something that makes it look like they're just about to find something. It does make sense.

I could say that. But now regardless though, it's like since 1857, until today they're still digging and treasure hunting going on, which is pretty cool. I love that. That's wild. That story was like adorable and terrifying all the same time. I really like that story. I'm going to dive more into that.

I just think it's cool to find these kind of like hidden little gems like that that are just kind of existing around that. You just don't know about generally. Yeah, because who knew that there was even that like a treasure on happening at all? Never mind like the longest one in history. Yeah. People who tune to the history channel. And a treasure hunt where they don't know what's down there. Yeah, what they're looking for.

Yeah. Or who put it there. That's a part of it. There's all these theories over what it's Shakespeare's lost manuscripts. It's, you know, religious artifacts. It's a pirate's treasure. That's what I thought of first. Maybe it's not even a treasure at all.

I know. Maybe it's a curse that has already been unleashed. That's what I think. Right at the beginning of the pandemic. We dug up this weird thing. Yeah. I know. I'm like, did you dig up the panoramic? So many of those things happened all at once where they were like, so weird. Like scientists opened 600 sarcophagi and just, and you're like, yeah, that's probably fine.

It's probably not why we have COVID. But thank you. Yeah. That's great. That's probably my folios back. Thanks for that. Well, at one point you called that a little gem and I have to tell you guys, I'm bringing you a little gem right now. You are. I'm going to skip over my paranormal kind of spooky one for the sake of time and I'll bring it to you a little bit. later date. This one. Because this one, I have to tell you about. You too. I want to tell you guys about the squank. I love it. The squawk. What really drew me to the squank is that they're very emotional beings and me too. I think that they are all just cancers like for like zodiac. It's a shame that we're relating to so many of these beasts. Yeah. We're all like in some way,

you know? We can all find ourselves somewhere in here. The thing is you might be. You might be might be able to find yourself in this, maybe all of us sitting here or a listener. The squawk can disappear with its tears. It just sits there sobbing and then its tears make it disappear and go off elsewhere. Why is that so funny to me? It's so funny. I think it's deep. It is.

The squawk is a real deep animal. And I know why the squank is so sad. It's because his home state of Pennsylvania has classified him as the holiest animal. in the world. Oh, the poor squawk. The poor squawk. So who are they to say? Who are they? Legends of the squawk actually date all the way back to 1910 when the squank was referenced in a book written by a man named William Cox called Fearsome Creatures of the Lumber Woods with a few desert and mountain beasts. He said I sprinkled some in there. So Mr. Cox said that the squawk was one of many creatures living in the hemlock forests in Pennsylvania. And he went on to say that the

squawk is a quote, most retiring bashful creps, I can't say this word. How do you say this word? Crepsicular. Cropuscular? Thank you so much. You're welcome. He's garbed in a loose, warty, singularly ill-fitting skin. The squawk is always unhappy, even morbid, DM. He is given to constant weeping over his really upsetting appearance and can sometimes be tracked by his tear-stained trail. Moonlit nights are best for squank hunts. For then, the animal prefers to lie quiet in its hemlock home, fearing should it venture forth that it may catch a glimpse of itself in some moonlit pool. This was just me in junior high.

They said he's so ugly. He's scared to see himself. Oh, my God. So sad. Poor squaw. I hate that that was you in junior high. You were beautiful. Oh my God, thank you.

You still are, but thank you. You were not squawk. It wasn't squawk. Your skin wasn't ill-fitting. No way. How do you know? You guys don't know. I know.

I knew you. Well, it's not, I don't know if it's much about the reality is how you feel. And when we hear about this skunk, it obviously feels miserable. And then the idea that when it expresses that, it becomes invisible. I know. So it's like an allegory or some sort. Let me disappear with my woes. I just, I feel a long.

I start to cry and I disappear. I become invisible. And am truly alone. I feel horrible for this guy. Yeah, he just needs like a friend. He needs some uplifting music. I feel like the squawk listens to like a lot of the cure. And like whenever I do that, I'm personally very sad.

So but this man, William goes on to say that quote, Sometimes you can hear one weeping softly to himself. The sound is a low note of pleading somewhat resembling the call of a cross feathered snee. Oh. And he gave the squank a more official like, scientific name, which is, I hope I'm saying this, right, La Crimacorpus dissolvins, which comes from three Latin words, which like scary that I said those, that translate to tears, body, and dissolve. I can't believe he just dissolves in tears. Now, again, he's so sad because his skin is said to be

ill-fitting, but also he's covered in tons of blemishes and warts. He just needs a skincare routine. Yeah, I think so. That's all. But the tears over his appearance really do come in clutch because, like I said, it can disappear from crying. And people do hunt squank. And one fan was said to have caught a squank and he put him in his bag, which I think is personally very rude.

And he's just walking along with his bag of squawk. And he realizes at some point during his journey home to show the ladies, apparently, that his bag isn't quite as heavy as when he started. And he checked it out. And he went in there. And he said when he looked into the bag, all he saw was, quote, the liquid remains of a sad animal. So he just cried himself out of there. He said, bye.

Well, that kind of worked, yeah. Maybe he's crying tears of joy because he's like, ha, ha, ha, sucker. There you go. He's get me in my ill-fitting warts. Maybe he's emotionally manipulative. And he just cries on cute. Emotional baby boy. He's just a thespian.

You can cry whenever he wants. You work with what you got. You do. It served him. But I bet you there's times when the squawk is alone, crying, sincere tears. Probably. Wanting someone to notice and they can't. It's almost like Midas is golden touch.

It's like because you can just touch something and get money, but then it turns out you cannot connect with another person because if you touch them. That's kind of how this guy is. And he probably has good days with it and bad days with it. Don't we all with our skin and our vibes and our bodies? That's true. Yeah. But overall in hearing this whole story, it came across as like a dark.

Dr. Seuss story and even the name like squawk yeah yeah it does sound like that yeah if you if only you could if you could like rewrite it and read it and rhyme it would actually absolutely be like a Halloween doctor yeah 100% maybe I'll do that I just feel bad for the squunk I want a squawk so we can cry together and our worst and maybe he can teach me how to disappear when I'm a little sad what I'm a little sad oh man that's dark that's not we can't end on that though That's a dark start. It was even morbid, guys. It was very morbid.

But mine is just strange. Mine's called the skunk ape. Hell yeah. I like this. Yeah. He's just essentially a smelly bigfoot of Florida. All of them. So stanky.

And he's from Florida. Florida man. He's a Florida man. He's a Florida bigfoot. I love that for him. There have been tales and sightings of this man's for like hundreds of years in this area. It's basically Bigfoot. but it has dark hair and it has that really foul odor associated with it.

So it kind of sounds like moo-moo there. I was going to say, is it Momo? Or Mummo, Momo, whatever. Just in the wrong name. Sorry, Movo. That's my man's. But yeah, it's got the foul odor associated with it. This guy named Dave Shealy is the one who like really dedicated this whole life

to proving that these exist. And he said it's a mixture of a skunk, moldy cheese, and goat dung the smell. I didn't know that goat dung had a specific smell. Didn't know either. Why do we do? The more you know. And the background you would need to have to give that description of a smell is amazing. Yeah.

It really is. I would like to hear what that entails. Moldy cheese, though, just makes me think of like blue cheese. Same. And I love blue cheese, but it is very stankilicious. When you put it with skunk and goat dung, I assume. Yeah. It's not like a good flavor profile.

But it also, when I hear like, a smelly thing. I initially when I didn't know that's what it's smell like, I was like, well, is it like a sulfur smell? Because then it's like a demon. Right. But I think it just has like overactive glands or something. Maybe. It's just a sweaty being. Like a thyroid problem, maybe. But

I think he's nice. I think he's a nice guy. There's no reports that he's heard anybody or tried to hurt anyone, like most big feet, I think. And the first sighting of these creatures goes back to 1957. The first like recorded one. It goes back to 1957 two hunters were camping in the everglades which was their first mistake in my opinion and they

came out terrified saying that they had seen a giant very pungent ape so you know there were also tons of reports after see after this first report there was a ton that came in right after in the everglades so it was kind of like it started a whole thing and this was in the 50s so it's not like they saw it online and everybody started following this like there was actual reports. And people tried to claim that it was coming up to their cars and shit, which I think it just got like more and more crazy. Because again, Big Feet are peaceful, in my opinion.

I refuse that they want anything to do with our dumbasses. I think that's why they run away from us because they're like, I don't want, no, I don't want to know you. Get away from me. There was actually a whole, and this was in 1997, that there was a whole tour bus of people, 30 plus people that claim that they saw this big foot. I thought you were going to say there was a whole tour bus full of skunk apes and I got so excited. Imagine that would be so casual for me to say.

I could see you doing that though just to like set us up. Yep. They commandeered a bus and that's the end of my story. No. It was just like a mass sighting of them. I do wonder though if this was a tour because I could not find what this tour bus was for. And I'm like, was it a tour bus to go find a skunk gate? Because if that's the case.

It's like saying you saw a moose on a moose store. True. So same year, 1997, a photograph was taken by Ochapie Fire Control District Chief, Vince Dower. He, and in this picture, it shows a skunk cape, or what he says is a skump cape. And it's like through the forest, just like standing there. It's like this little guy. Almost like a mirror cat. But he's big.

Big. Yeah. It's just perspective. The opposite of a mere cat. But it looks tiny. And apparently after this picture came out, doesn't. of people started reporting this very creature to the big cypress national preserve so they got a ton of sightings in this air the same area now people do say that there's also like zoos and nature preserves

around and that they do have like primates like orangutangs and all kinds of things that could and like gorillas even there have been escapes of those things so who knows if one or more of these were like whoops we just saw that escaped orangutangang that nobody knew about I don't know. Either way. Dave Shealy, the guy who I said is like dedicated his life to this, he saw one basically for the first time when he was 10. And he was out with his family hunting. And he said he saw one.

His little brother was with him. He saw it too. And since then, he had just can't get over it. He wants to prove that they're real. He even shot a video of one. And I think he said he's seen like three since then. But he did get a video of one in 2000. And it just is basically.

It looks like a gorilla just walking through an open field. But it's like the classic like Bigfoot walk, that like amble that they do, you know. Yeah, except we're all doing this if this is a visual podcast right now. We're all just like, you know, walking. And yeah, it just flees into the forest. It's, it's a video. It's a video. You think it's real?

Who am I to say? I want it to be. Okay. I want big feet to be out there. Yeah, I want it to be real. The fact that there's a whole bunch of reports kind of needs a bit of credence to it. But at the same time, what came first? The reports are the legend. Exactly. That's what I was thinking. Exactly. And it's, it's really just, it's the fact that it's like so similar to just like a big foot. Like it's like eight feet tall or bigger. It has reddish to black hair. They say it's, they're usually try to distinguish it between the northern big feet. They're like, that's not. us.

This is the southern big foot. So they're like, it's just different. Like, the hair is different. So we have different hair up here, apparently. They can run, which I think a lot of big feet are pretty fast, like upwards of 20 miles per hour. So, like, you're kind of fucked if you try to run away from it. Faster than I can run.

But again, they don't attack people. There's no reports of them being jerks. They just smell. And there is, interestingly, a skunk ape headquarters created by Dave Shealy, located in Ocepe, Florida. Let's go. It has all this research stuff. He has a big statue of a skunk ape outside of it.

There's a website you can go to. He's a believer. He's a believer. And he's dedicated to it. And just to end this. It's kind of like the Oak Island story. It's like someone gets themselves wrapped up in it. And that's what, like, I think that's what these legends and sightings and mythology,

they need as someone who is like creative, well written and an archivist. who can just take the story on and carry it forward. Exactly. You need that person. That's who he is. We need Dave Shealy. And just to end this on like a little Florida thing, which I thought was very interesting. Always fun.

In 1977, because there were so many sightings of this thing at this point, like they were like piling up. There was a, there was a bill. And it was House Bill 1664. And it was proposed. It didn't go through. It failed. But it was proposed. and it went to the Florida state legislator,

and it was to make it illegal to, quote, take, possess, or molest anthropoids or humanoid animals. Why did we have to propose a bill to say that we shouldn't do that? And also, like, why didn't we go through? I think that's pretty fair. Like, I'm just saying. You know the way government is. I'm like a lot of red tape, I suppose.

But, like, I think that's a pretty fair thing to be like, yeah, don't do that. A lot of things are pretty fair that they don't vote on. So like, I would not be upset if there was a law that was like, don't take or molest a humanoid animal. I'd be like, yeah, don't do that. Yeah, I would agree with to pass that. I'd say, don't do that. I'd be like, yay, in favor.

But it failed. So in Florida, that is not a law. So they're like, go ahead and do that. You can apparently. If you find one, molest away. Yeah, you can take up at it or molest, I suppose. Well, I think an interesting court case will be one day when someone does, like, take or molest something and their defense is like it was humanoid thus it's fair game that is not

on the books yeah and the in the in the prosecution be like that is not at all humanoid yeah that i learned that should we write fanfic about that i think we should the white thang was not the way thing humanoid oh that's a piece i love it so yeah that's the the skunk ape i think yeah skunk ape. I like it, but ultimately it's the story of a stinky ape. I think the more fascinating story is the story of the guy who dedicated himself to, in his life, to researching and creating a kind of a home for research for the story. And he's really going for it. Dave Shealy. We got his family into it. Hey, Dave, you want to talk? He's a believer. I like it. Yeah, I like people like that.

Should we keep going or are we? Yeah, because you have one more, don't you? Yeah. Well, I can go online. Yeah, let's end on yours. Let's, I think talking about Dave Shealy, I have a story that will kind of connect to why it's so important to have someone who's well written, good at communicating and good at researching to carry a story forward.

There's a story in Canada that is seen as our most famous poultry altergeist slash haunted house story. People refer to it simply, yeah, people refer to it simply as the great Amherst mystery. Amherst is a small town in Nova Scotia and that's where this story takes place. So it's either referred to as the Great Amherst mystery named after where it takes place or simply the haunting of Esther Cox. And Esther Cox is the then 19 year old woman at the heart of the story. So what's amazing about this is it takes place in 1878, but it is very well documented and very easy to understand because what ended up happening was it's the story of a poltergeist that seemed to be following this 18 turning 19 year old woman Esther Cox. And when it started to become known that this was happening to a young woman in the neighborhood in the community, it was in the paper, I think initially, a famous actor from. the United States named Walter Hubble, who had an interest in the paranormal and hauntings and

poltergeists. He connected with the family, and he decided to come from the United States to live with her family in Amherst with the goal of documenting and researching what was happening to her in real time. And he kept a diary as this happened of what he was seeing and what was happening in the home. And eventually his diary would be published, as at the time, best-selling book. And anyway, so you can kind of get a sense of what was happening through his writing. But again, it has to be taken with a grain of salt because he did get financial benefit out of the book being a big seller. But ultimately, what happened is one night Esther Cox, again, an 18, just about to turn 19-year-old girl, she shared a bedroom in the top floor of a home with,

I think, three other siblings. And what was happening to Esther is, over the last several days, she wasn't feeling well. She was quiet. She was kind of staying away from everyone. In the middle of the night, her siblings woke up with Esther kind of crying and moaning, breaking out in a cold sweat. They approached her bed to see what was going on. And what they did was initially, it's reported as they grabbed the blankets to try to kind

of pull them off her to get a look at her. But the blankets were like stuck to her. Like it was, they could not get her out of the blankets. And what happens next is the legs of the bed started just kind of going up and down pounding as like the whole bed vibrating. Esther's eyes were rolling back in her head. She was awake but not saying anything as they're panicking like what is happening to Esther. But it all ends on the first night with a large, almost sounding like an explosion in the roof, almost like the lightning hit the host. As soon as the sound happens, she snaps out of it, jumps out of bed, unsure.

of what has happened. Awesome. And so what happens is pretty much every night as it goes on, similar things like this happen, but the intensity goes up and up and up as time goes on. It starts to incorporate fire. It starts to be so loud the explosions on the roof that people in the neighborhood are hearing this happening. So it's no secret to everybody that there is a haunted house or a haunted girl.

Walter Hubble, the actor from the United States, comes down and begins tracking it, researching it, writing about it in real time. The newspaper, the local newspaper, is covering it in real time. Crowds are gathering outside of the home. Eventually, what they do is they take Esther on a sort of tour, almost like a freak show sort of thing, where they're charging money to get in to see her and get a glimpse of the haunted girl. People, man. People are good of people. Yeah, but it gets so bad that people in the community are complaining because fires are breaking out. They're worried it's going to, you know, injure someone or spread a fire to a neighboring home.

Esther eventually gets shipped off to, I think it's an uncle's home in a neighboring community to just kind of get away from it. And while there, fire breaks out in the shed or the barn of the home she's staying at. And she gets blamed for it. not the poltergeist, but she personally gets blamed and goes to prison as a young girl. So an odd kind of twist in it. But after she gets out of prison, it all stops. So some people believe she kind of snapped out of it if she was responsible. But believers that there was actually a poltergeist or a haunting surrounding her say that she met somebody while in prison who was like a psychic medium kind of witch doctor type.

they were able to break her of whatever curse. Now, the last part I'll say about this is what everybody who researches this, people who were contemporarily close to it at the time, they point back to an incident that happened days before the trouble started for Esther as being the source of it. And what is really odd is, I believe, three days before the haunting or poltergeist activity began to surface, Esther caught. was on one of her first dates where she was with a young man in the neighborhood, in the community, who took her out on, I think, on a horse-pulled carriage. So romantic. What a first date.

Well, it gets less romantic because Esther Cox was not interested in his sexual advances. And he did not like that. And she suffered a physical assault days before. So when she was quiet for a period of days, eventually it comes out that the reason she was quiet is because of what have happened between her and this boy. Oh, my God. And so a lot of people think that there was something kind of set off in this attack against Esther that she didn't tell anyone about initially that just set off this kind of rage around her that almost did you ever see the movie by Stephen King or it's a book by Stephen King that became a movie called Firestarter? Yes. It seems like it's kind of like the 1878 version of like some kind of twist on that or something.

Yeah. But but to this day like you can the book about that Walter Hubble wrote about his time living with the Cox family is now public domain. So it's free all over the internet. And it's pretty fascinating if you're a believer because it goes in depth and every little thing he saw. But I think. I was just going to say. I was like I want to do like a full episode on that. Well, some parts of it are like absurd where you hear about like, you know, they convince the ghosts like, you know, knock once for yes, twice for no.

And there's actually parts where Walter Hubble claims to have like interviewed this spirit. I love it. Yeah. And of course, much like every poltergeist haunted house story, there's also a famous incident that occurred where during one of Esther Cox's fits at night, her siblings who were in the room. room with her watched carving into the wooden wall without anyone touching it just the words carved into the wall slowly uh esther cox your mind to kill so that kind of phrase is used a lot where apparently that was slowly carved into the wall in plain eyesight of other witnesses says recounted in walter hubbell's book have you ever seen the movie it follows oh i love that movie me too in a weird way

It almost reminds me of that. Like he assaulted her and like gave her this curse. And then I'm like, did she give it to somebody else in prison? That's what I, when you said she went to prison and came out, I was like she gave that to someone else. Someone else has that poltergeist now. Never even thought of that. Yeah. I got to say, though, it follows is an amazing movie because one thing is it doesn't use like special effects and it doesn't have a big budget.

They just made brilliant. Yeah, kind of like with Blair Witch. It's like they made something amazing using the resources and the. budget and stuff that they had and it was like written and directed in accordance with their capabilities and their resources. So good. And the music, the score for it. So good.

So good. I saw that movie in theaters and I just remember being like terrified for weeks. Oh, there's so many parts of that like the really tall guy is the when he like comes into the room for some reason that just like sent me. Yeah. It's the naked lady outside the parking lot. Oh, I hate that one. Yeah.

That's freaky. Mm-hmm. Don't love it. Or the lady that comes in and like peas on the floor. She's my least favorite. She's kind of like a banshee. Yeah. Yeah. That was very banshee vibes. It was. Oh, man. Wow, guys, this was like really fun. We need to start a series of just like Camp Fire Tales with Jordan from the nighttime podcast. Can we do that? Well, next time we talk, I'll tell you it truly. Well, like we said at the beginning of this,

the worst monsters are people. Next time we talk, we'll get into a story that's unlike any you've ever heard. But it's not mythology. No, unfortunately, it's real. There's some true crime. It's going to be a lot, but stay tuned because it's coming up. You haven't seen the last of Jordan Bonaparte. Heard the last. They're not seeing this. You're not seeing any of this. We haven't, though. So there's that truth. But it's a shame they don't see it because Elena's by my book, talk about my book shirt. Yeah. It's true. Now, what is on your shirt? Is that stranger things? It is stranger things. As you're sitting on a throne of butcher and wren books.

Yeah, literally. I'm like one here too. Oh my God, I just dropped my book. I just dropped my book that I wrote. Sorry, my God. Yeah, oops. Yeah, this is, it's stranger things and it's Max floating above the graveyard. And it has the little like running up that hill.

I like it. Thanks. Well, this has been a blast. I would do this every night. We're going to do this again. We don't even have to record. it, huh? We can talk to this stuff anytime. We'll just talk about cryptids together.

Well, thank you again. And where can everybody find you? Anywhere they find morbid podcast, they can find the nighttime podcast. And they can find Canadian crime, mysteries, weird stories, all sorts of things. But very much in line. What I do is very much in line with what you all do. The only difference really is that it's generally me interviewing a guest and all the stories I feature are set and based in Canada. And there's a delightful Canadian accent attached to it. Like our Canadian counterpart. Exactly.

There you go. All right. Well, everybody, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't go and listen to the nighttime podcast. Isn't that odd? I'm wearing a shirt. This is Keep Canada Weird.

There you go. It was very unbrowned.