Morbid - Dennis Nilsen: The Kindly Killer (Part 3)

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

(Part 3 of 3) On the morning of February 8, 1983, a plumber working in London’s Muswell Hill neighbor opened a drainage cover behind a Cranley Gardens apartment building and made a horrific discovery—the drain was blocked by pieces of bone and human tissue. Upon investigation, detectives traced the blockage back to one apartment in the building, where additional evidence suggested things were far worse than they’d initially thought.When the occupant of the apartment, Dennis Nilsen, was confronted with the human remains, he began telling investigators a shocking story and when he was finished, Nilsen had confessed to murdering and dismembering at fifteen men over the course of five years. In the annals of British crime, Dennis Nilsen ranks among the worst serial killers the country has ever seen, not only because of the number of people he killed, but also the method of disposal and the motive.  Mentioned in the EpisodeRead Jay Manuel’s Fictional book inspired by ANTM The Wig, The Bitch & The Meltdown ReferencesBarlass, Tim, and Robert Mendick. 2006. "Killer: This was my first victim." Evening Standard (London, UK), November 9: 1.Davies, Nick. 1983. "A nice person, says the man who escaped." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'claimed to have no tears for victims, bereaved, or himself'." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'enjoyed power of his victims'." The Guardian, November 1: 4.—. 1983. "Nilsen tells of horror and shame at killings." The Guardian, October 28: 2.Henry, Ian. 1983. "'My fury if visitors didn't listen to me'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 27: 3.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'has admitted 15 or 16 killings'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 25: 3.Liverpool Echo. 1983. "London body: Man in court." Liverpool Echo, February 12: 1.Masters, Brian. 1985. Killing for Company: The Case of Dennis Nilsen. London, UK: J. Cape.McMillan, Greg. 1980. "Family scours Britain for missing son." Hamilton Spectator (Hamilton, ON), January 31: 10.Murphy, Fin. 2021. "I struck up a friendship with serial killer Dennis Nilsen. Then I edited his memoirs." Vice, January 29.Nicholson-Lord, David. 1983. "Doctor tells jury of Nlsen's false-self." The Times, October 28: 1.—. 1983. "Nilsen given 25-year sentence." The Times, November 5: 1.Tatchell, Peter. 2022. Police failed Dennis Nilsen’s victims. Decades later, little has changed. January 24. Accessed September 15, 2025. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/police-dennis-nilsen-victims-homophobic-murders.The Guardian. 1983. "State of mind issue put to Nilsen jury." The Guardian, November 3: 3.The Times. 1983. "Nilsen strangled, cut up and burnt men he met in pubs, jury told." The Times, October 25: 1.—. 1984. "Prisoners live in fear of Nilsen." The Times, June 21: 3. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. I always have to repeat it. I don't know why. It's a weird routine that I do. It's entirely possible that I do that too, but I don't know. I think we both do it.

Sometimes I'm a self-aware queen and other times I'm a Dululu queen. Delulu queen. We live in a grand deli-lulu. Yeah, I'm usually, I'm pretty self-aware of my annoying traits. I think. I'm not going to change them, but I'm aware of them. That's the most Capricorn shake you've ever said. I know I'm annoying, but fuck you. Yeah, that's straight up.

I know I'm annoying, but deal with it. That's straight up how I feel. Unapologetic. I love it. Yeah, I'm very self-aware, but, like, there's changing. Good for you. You know what? I'll grow, but I won't change. Good. But, like, in growth, good.

In growth, there is change. Nah. Not my growth. No. She's something, everybody. She's a girly. She's a girly. She's out here.

I am out here. She's out here in these streets not changing but growing, question mark. We don't understand it. But you know what? I don't claim her. The girlies who get it get it. You know what? I do claim you though.

My fellow capricorns get it. We grow. We do not change. I honestly, I really feel as though you're, we were just talking about this. I feel like you're becoming more and more of a Virgo with each past. day. I can, I definitely have Virgo. I mean, it's in my big three, isn't it? Well, that's what I'm saying, because you're Virgo rising. And I heard that, like, the older you get, like, the more you go through life, you kind of morph more into your rising sign. Mine is Sagittarius. I feel that.

And I like saggies. So, like, I morph into a saggy. Yeah. Sadgies, I feel like, maybe they, like, don't give as much of a fuck about things as Geminized do. I hope. Maybe. I was just a hope, I think, of mine. It's just a hope. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. They hope not to. Maybe. I don't know. Well, that was astrology with Ash. You were just like, but you're becoming a Virgo.

Yeah, you are. I just, I feel it. Because Dave is a Virgo and I'm noticing a lot of attributes of Dave that you are. Yeah, Dave and I are very, have found each other realizing that we're very alike. You are. Yeah. There's moments where we're just like, huh. Well, and Drew is a Capricorn.

And like, he definitely possesses like some Capricorn qualities for sure. He's a January Capricorn. He's a January Capricorn, which is different, but he's also a tourist rising. And I was saying to him that lately I feel like he comes off way more tourists. But they also say that you come off to other people like your rising sign is what you present to other people. I'm pretty sure. So I present to Virgo. Yeah, and that makes sense.

I feel like Virgo's are misunderstood. And sometimes I feel like you're misunderstood. Yeah. Yeah. Capricorns are too. Yeah, definitely. We're both in those. Yeah. And then you got cancer in there, which just like fucks it all up.

Which is really wild. Yeah, you're a big sign. are chaotic. They're scary. Mine are super fucking chaotic too. Mine are just scary. Yeah. It's interesting that we both have water moons. I just realized that. Because I'm a Pisces moon, which I don't like to claim out loud, but you know, I have actually, never mind. I'm not going to say that. Anyways, let's get into the story. Yeah. Now that we've all discussed our risings and big threes. Yeah, I hope you guys yelled yours out at us. Yeah, I hope you did. I heard it. That's what I hope for us. When we go through these little weird

intros that we just start talking about, Chip, that you guys are just yelling stuff back. I hope so. It feels that way. Yeah. I feel like my friends are out there in their cars. And they're not too long, so I feel like you can hang in and like yell back at us for a minute.

And then we're like, ah, right. Yeah. Ah, right. Getting back on track. So, yeah, let's get back on track. Let's get back on track. This is Sharon Kinney, aka La Pistolera. I can't say it in America.

Sound is pretty. I just have to say it in the sign of the same. But that's the case that we're covering. We're in part two of that. And in part one, we covered, you know, Sharon's... I would call it failed marriage to her first husband. I would also call that a failed marriage. Yeah, his untimely and wildly.

Wildly suspicious death. Yes. We covered her affair with a married man named Walter. And then we found out that Walter's wife, Patricia, had been murdered. And Sharon had not only been the one to find her, but was also the last person to be seen with her. very day that she went missing. And then finally at the end of part one, Sharon was arrested right after Patricia's funeral. So there's that. I've said it like 42 times, but I am just going to say it one more time, trial heavy in the beginning of this one, stick with me. I'm sticking. I'm

here. I'm glad you are required by contract to be here. So while that means a lot to me that you're not going anywhere, it's also just the law. Yeah, I mean, that's very true. But if you're not contractually obligated to be here. I appreciate you and I love you. I love that. Yeah. We're all in this together. That's good. We're just not all under the same contracts. No. But the next morning, June 1st, after, you know, she was arrested, Sharon appeared before magistrate J.J. Brady in an independence courtroom where she was formally arraigned with the first degree murder of Patricia Jones and a preliminary hearing was scheduled for June 16th. In the meantime, she was held on $20,000 bond, which friends and relatives actually wasted no time pulling together, and she was released that very afternoon.

What? I feel like even that speaks to, like, the manipulation she was able to conjure. Yeah. Like, friends and relatives were like, yeah, I know that two people have been mysteriously shot or murdered around you lately in a span of two months, but, like, I don't think you have anything to do with it. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, she's a high-level manipulator. She's a widely one. That's what we've been discovering. But then, after the arraignment for Patricia's murder, the sheriff's department actually asked district attorney William Collette to file charges against Sharon for the murder of her husband. There you go.

I was waiting for that. He did that later that afternoon. But the biggest issue for the prosecutor's office was the lack of forensic evidence connecting Sharon to both murders. There was not a lot of forensic evidence. And remember, it's the 60s. So they didn't have like a shit ton that they could do. Like there wasn't any DNA to, there was DNA to test, but there weren't any tests yet to figure it out.

Very true. So they knew she was the last person to be seen with Patricia Jones. And she had been uncooperative from the start of the investigation. But with the fourth bullet or the 20, or excuse me, without the fourth bullet or the 22 caliber pistol used in the shooting, prosecutors knew that getting a conviction would be an uphill battle. But they were ready to climb uphill. Investigators, citizen volunteers, and even a troop of Boy Scouts had scoured the crime scene with metal detectors, like I mentioned in part one. But still, they hadn't found any evidence.

But then, finally, on June 2nd, a sergeant with the sheriff's office located the fourth slug, lodged about six inches into the ground, directly under where Patricia's body had been found. Oh, so it was lodged in there? It was lodged into the earth. So then you wonder I mean I don't know if I'm being like super No you go for it You theorize Because we were saying how we

Like they believed initially That she was brought there And probably dumped because of the lack of blood And then they found that barn So my thought process here is Because that barn kind of like disappeared You said It does feel like it

Like it kind of does disappear Because they've They theorized that maybe she was shot there Because there was some evidence That like something was shot there Yeah Or somebody shot there But the cause of death

was the shot to the head. Yes. So I'm wondering if all that happened to somewhere else, she was dumped there and they did one more shot to the stomach to try to confuse the whole thing. Maybe. And that's why there's no blood because she had already died from the blood. So it's not flowing. So it's not flowing.

That's actually brilliant. That's not some investigator type of shit. That's just me over here being an investigator. Yeah. You know. That makes a lot of sense. What are you writing like a novel about murder or something? No.

No. No, never. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. Could have been it? That definitely could have been it. It's pretty shady. Because they never really account for the lack of blood at the scene. Yeah, so maybe that's, it could be why.

Yeah. It's just like an overkill kind of thing to confuse things. Or just like an angry overkill. Yeah, like one more. You know, one more. Mm-hmm, you're right. But anyway, finding that missing slug was huge. Yeah.

That was a huge win. Regardless. But it was immediately followed by a pretty big blow once they realized. that the coroner had sent Patricia's body to the mortuary with the two remaining slugs still in the body, which had then been buried. Come on, everybody. So not, so yeah, he sent her body off to the mortuary and she had already been buried with those slugs still in her. Great. A spokesperson a spokesperson for the sheriff's office told reporters, we feel there was a negligence at the time of the autopsy. You feel that? They did feel that. I also feel that. I feel that from, you know, decades,

after. Me too. I still feel that. I still feel it in my bones. And according to the sheriff, investigators had made the explicit request for the coroner to hold the body for additional testing and removal of the remaining clubs. Of course. But the coroner disregarded the request, sent Patricia's bodies to the mortuary where she

was prepared for burial destroying what could have been vital evidence in this case. Why the fuck? She's a murder victim. Why are you sending her off with evidence inside of her body? It gets worse. The more investigators dug into Patricia's case, the worst things looked for the prosecution. Not only had legit evidence been buried with the body, but the embalming process actually

occurred before the coroner performed the autopsy. Shut the fuck up. They embalmed the body first before he did the autopsy. What? Colette told the press, it's just all botched up. How badly this series of mistakes will hurt us will have to be determined later, this is not the first case they messed up for us and it probably won't be the last. Like, how do you even, how? And also, if this is not the first case that they've messed up for you and you're pretty confident, it's not going to be the last. We think it's time to hire a new coroner? Yeah, I'm going to go on on a limb here and say that coroner is not good at their job. Like, what? Also, I wonder if this, where did this take place? Independence, Missouri. I wonder if this is

this is one of those cases against coroners, like against like a voted in coroners. Because it's like this could be a case where this guy had no fucking business doing any of this shit. It kind of sounds like it. I'm going to look this shit up. Go for it because it does sound like it. According to the prosecutor's office,

the coroner even tried to cover up his mistakes at multiple points in the investigation. He told detectives, this is wild. You're going to, you're going to, I don't even know what you're going to do, but you're going to lose your mind at this. Oh, no. He told detectives finding the slugs in the body would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Literally shut the fuck up. What?

Like, you have literal entrance wounds. That's the thing. Like slugs don't appear in a body. There's a fucking exit wound that you can follow pretty quickly. Looking for a needle in a haystack? It's a bullet. Are you kidding me? Like, what are you saying?

Is this guy all right? Who is this man? No, because I'm... I'm not done yet. This is what's really going to send you. He also told them that he did not want to conduct test on the stomach contents because it would be, and I quote, too messy. This guy had to have been voted it. He's not a real fucking medical.

There's no way. Too messy. That's your whole entire job is messy and wily and crazy and smelly and. What? Like literally. That's the field you went into, brother. You walk into that room and it's just. your mess smells everything of course what are you doing have you ever oh honey coroner dear coroner from

1950 whatever or 1960 whatever have you performed an autopsy before because i don't think you have there's no way you have if you're like that would be messy oh no he had he had he had because he had he had fucked up cases for them in the past i'm without words i didn't i i forgot about that whole thing where like they were i'm looking at it in yeah I'm looking it up because this is not... Too messy, he said. This is not... No.

Yeah. But fortunately, for the prosecution, moving away from that for a second, fortunately for the prosecution, Patricia's husband Walter Jones, did actually allow them to exume Patricia's body so that a proper autopsy could be conducted. Well, thank goodness. And realistically, you can't even call it a proper autopsy at that point because she's already been fucking embalmed, but they could do way better than this guy did. Yeah.

Now, in addition to retrieving the remaining bullets, the new pathologist, like a legit one, Dr. Charles Wheeler, he was able to determine that what Patricia ate before the murder. She had pickles and salami, which that's a girl dinner. That is. That truly is. And I would eat that and I want that right now. But he also confirmed that she had not been sexually assaulted and he was able to confirm the sequence in which the bullets had entered the body. So this guy is legit. Yeah. Now, the new autopsy results were encouraging to the prosecution because they not only retrieved those remaining slugs, but they also concluded that the murder was not motivated by sexual deviance or robbery,

leaving the most likely explanation to be a personal grudge. Why else would this woman have been murdered? Of course, yeah. Now for Sharon, the investigation into both Patricia and James's deaths were immediately a big inconvenience. With the murder case reopened or opened in James' death, the insurance company stopped any payments on her claims, which left her with little money for her expensive defense attorneys or her excessive spending and basic needs.

Yeah. So she was like in a bad place. Now in response, she ended up putting her house on the market. She sold her car and she hoped that the money from those two things would keep her afloat until her payments resumed because she believed they would. Yeah, of course. Now, as detectives and the prosecution kept building the case against her or the cases, the introduction of Sharon's defense team slowed things down considerably because at every step of the way,

they challenged almost everything the prosecution said or did or tried to admit or anything. And because of that, actually a full year passed before either case finally went to trial. And when they did finally go to trial, things did not look as good as the prosecution had hoped. Uh-oh. Yeah. Sharon's trial for the murder of Patricia Jones began June 12th, 1961, with opening statements being given on the afternoon of June 14th. In his statement for the prosecution, Jay Arnett Hill presented the state's case. They believed Sharon Kinney had been having an affair with Walter Jones, and after he refused to divorce his wife, she lured Patricia to this meeting place and shot her to death.

Once she killed Patricia, Sharon dumped her body in an area known to be frequented by young people and stayed in. the scene to, quote, give indications that a crime of sexual passion had occurred. Yeah. Fully. Yeah. Like, to me, I'm like, yeah. Yeah. But also, we have the background knowledge of everything else that has gone on in her life.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, the jury did not. Yeah. Did you get anywhere yet, by the way? So I did see that you were, because this is called a coroner at this point. They do now in Jackson County have, they have a medical examiner. Oh, okay. And if she's a woman, she looks like badass.

I don't know. I'm just like, she's the chief medical. medical examiner. But she's a medical examiner. She is a doctor. She is a forensic pathologist, like she is there. But it says in the state of Missouri, larger urban counties operate under medical examiner jurisdiction, while smaller counties by statute operate under coroner jurisdiction. And it says coroners from several rural Missouri counties contract with the Jackson County Medical Examiners Office for autopsy services when needed. But I'm assuming back in 1960, they just had an elected coroner because that's the difference between an Emmy and a

coroner. Right. As a coroner is usually an elected layperson that has no fucking business doing an autopsy. That that's like still something that happens. Yeah. So I think that's probably what happened here is that was an elected official who had no business doing this. I mean, if it's not the case, I'm appalled and if it is, I'm still appalled. I would be willing to bet a lot. Because this was an elected official that is not a medical. I would think so because the fact that he said it was going to be too messy and also just like looking for needles in a haystack. It's like doing an autopsy after they had been embalmed. Like what? What the fuck are you doing my guy? When he said it would be too messy, that immediately

I was like, you're, you're elected. Like that's, this is not like, like what? Wild. But yeah, absolutely wild. Damn. But going back to the prosecution's case, their case was pretty straightforward. It relied on a string of witnesses who told the jury they saw Patricia with. Sharon Kinney just before she disappeared. They also relied on expert testimony from investigators and Dr. Wheeler, the actual medical like coroner here. And he explained the results of the second autopsy. However, the prosecution still had several hurdles before them, particularly the initial

botched autopsy that was going to really play a big part in this case and fuck it all up. And the fact that they still had, again, almost no physical evidence tying Sharon to this murder. Yeah. Now, the lack of forensic evidence became apparent on cross-examination when Lieutenant Harry Nesbit from the Sheriff's Department was asked about the guns collected during the search of the Kinney home. When defense attorney James Quinn asked which guns were collected, Nesbitt explained that they had confiscated a 22 rifle, an automatic pistol that had belonged to Sharon's father, and a, quote, blank pistol, excuse me, blank pistol which won't shoot. However, Nesbitt testified, none of them. of the guns were a match for those used in the murder of Patricia Jones. And remember, somebody that Sharon had worked with had come forward and said, like, she made me buy her this gun. And she said she left it with family in Washington. But it sounds like they were never able to locate that gun.

So that's why none of these are a match. That's still hanging out there. And it's like, yeah, exactly. Makes sense. Now, the conflicting autopsy reports, like I said, made things even worse for the prosecution. During his examination of the original coroner, Dr. Hugh Owens, the prosecutor, could barely hide his contempt for this guy. He believed and actually publicly accused him of compromising their case. Yeah.

During questioning, Owens was described as having, quote, smiled frostily, evidently recalling that the handling of the body at the time resulted in a dispute between his office and law enforcement authorities who charged that an inadequate postmortem examination had limited the collection of vital evidence. Which also, that answers our question. He's a doctor. So he is legit. It sounds like he is legit. Yeah, because his name is... Dr. Hugh Owens. What the fuck?

Yeah. Now, the results of the conflicting reports meant that the prosecution now couldn't be precise about a lot of the important details, the time of death, the presence of any chemicals or any drugs in Patricia's system, and the presence of any hairs or fibers on the body

during the autopsy. So the fact that they had to perform a second autopsy, you would think originally like, oh, wow, that's great. Like, thank goodness they got to do that. Yeah. But it actually fucked everything up because now those two reports were directly conflicting with each other. And it makes it look like you don't have any idea what's going on here. It's true. So while the conflicting medical reports were undoubtedly the biggest hurdle for the prosecution to clear, their additional witnesses didn't do much to help.

The day after Hill's frustrating examination of Dr. Owens, while, Walter Jones took the stand and told the jury about his relationship with Sharon Kinney, his attempt to end their relationship, and the enraged threats that he made to her when he found out that she'd been seen with Patricia right before she disappeared. The admissions didn't exactly endear him to the jury, but what was more problematic was that he described Sharon as being very willing to allow him to search her and her belongings for weapons, and he told the jury that she offered to aid in the search for Patricia. Oh, damn.

I mean, after he forcibly held a knife to her throat. I mean, yeah, there was that. There was the whole that of it. There was that. But they were like, okay, well, she was, like, willing to help you. Yeah. So, like, who does that? Yeah.

When they've actually killed the person. Now, that same day, the defense offered the additional slugs into evidence, the ones that had been fired from the gun that Sharon had her coworker by a few weeks before the murder. The gun had been purchased in a private sale, but the investigators had actually managed to track down the previous owner who led them to a location. who led them to a location that he used for target practice, and ballistics technicians were able to pull several slugs from a tree. So while they couldn't locate that particular gun,

they located the man who had owned it, and they got his slugs from that gun. Which like, that was pretty good police work. I was going to say that was good police work. But unfortunately, for the prosecution, the slug admitted into the evidence was a match for the caliber of the gun, but could not be confirmed as the same model used in Petroids. because they didn't have it right there.

Now, given the amount of circumstantial evidence versus the lack of forensic evidence in the prosecution's case, the defense really didn't have to work that hard on Sharon's behalf. They said it was true that she'd been seen with Patricia just before her death. You know, she'd been thoroughly uncooperative in the investigation. And actually, she'd been overheard at one point by law enforcement officials boasting that, quote, as long as we didn't have the gun, we couldn't prove it was her. Wow. But they said none of that conclusively linked her to Patricia's murder.

In fact, their case was even more simple than the states. They said, Sharon might be guilty of having an extramarital affair. That doesn't make her a killer. Shit. They went like pretty simple. Yeah, they went really simplistic with it. So rather than even try to prove her innocent, all they did was undermine the flimsy evidence that had been put forth by the prosecution. Now, among those called to testify by the defense was Donald Fitzpatrick, a man who,

claimed he was at the lover's lane area with his quote married woman companion. He testified that they hadn't seen any body or evidence of a murder when they were at the scene a short time before Patricia's body was discovered. And given that the prosecution claimed Patricia had been killed at that location, Fitzpatrick's testimony actually undermined the credibility of their case. Oh, damn. Because how did she get there? If she was killed there, he would have seen her, they're saying.

Oh, yeah. This is getting a little wily. It is. Wiley, this is brought to you by the word wily. Wiley. Yes. Very true. So the defense took less than two days to present their case. And on June 23rd, 1961, the jury went into deliberation. After just an hour and a half, they returned with a verdict of not guilty.

What? And they cited the prosecution's heavy reliance on conjecture as the reason for the verdict. So basically they're saying like, you're just saying that. because she had an affair with this woman's husband that you're like jumping to conclusions here. And it's just reasonable doubt. Exactly. Like you're just putting reasonable doubt in there. Exactly. Now when asked for her comment, Sharon simply smiled and told reporters, I feel as good as I can. Yeah, I bet you do. So her lead defense attorney James Quinn, this is so stupid. On the other hand, he had more to say on the matter. He told the press,

actually, there was a power outside this courtroom affecting this verdict, the hand of Providence. which is like a religious thing. Yeah. Yeah. He went on to address questions about the reason for the verdict saying you cannot speculate. You cannot base your judgment on speculation. Conjecture. It's like, okay, we get it.

I already did, though. Everybody did. I did. I did. I know she did it. Stay speculating. Stay speculating on this one. So Sharon Kinney had managed to get away with one murder because she did murder Patricia Jones, as we all know.

Yeah. And don't worry. We'll find out for sure later that she very much did. And in the wake of the acquittal, she entered into her next murder trial, confident that a similar lack of evidence would lead to a similar verdict. Oh, no. I don't know. So with the first trial behind them, the prosecution and the defense started preparing for the second one, scheduled to begin January 8, 1962. Coincidentally, it was actually to take place before the same judge, Judge Tom Stubbs, who presided over that first trial, which also makes you nervous because she just got acquitted.

Yeah, exactly. Now, defense attorney Quinn, and the rest of the judge. of Sharon's defense team felt pretty confident they could get their second acquittal. The case against Sharon in the death of James seemed even weaker than the prosecution's case against her and Patricia Jones's death. And on top of that, they were barred from admitting any new evidence. Jesus. And with the initial determination of accidental death, that would be pretty hard for the prosecution to get around.

So after one day of jury selection, opening statements began January 9th. And again, Jay Arnett Hill laid out the state's case. According to him, just weeks before her husband's death, both Sharon and James had confided to others that their marriage had essentially come to an end, and they had both expressed interest in getting a divorce. The problem, though, was that neither of them seemed willing to agree to the other's terms, which made that divorce seem unlikely. So when Sharon came to the realization that she was not going to get out of her marriage as easily as she hoped, and she wasn't going to come out of it with as big a payout. as she had hoped. She, quote, called a man named Donald Boone, telling him she had something dirty for him to do. What? And offered him a thousand dollars to kill her husband. Where the fuck did this come from? Left field, baby.

What? So, Hill ends up calling John Boldie's to the stand, intending to have him confirm a previous statement that he had given to investigators about Sharon having offered him a thousand dollars to kill her husband. I knew it. I knew this little two-year-old did not kill a man. No, he didn't. Come on. She's even worse. She blamed her two-year-old daughter. Yeah, she's a piece of her own father.

She sucks. Holy shit. But in his deposition, John Boldy's there, given before the trial. He told the prosecutor about how Sharon had offered him the money to kill James and implied that they could be together with James out of the way. He said all of that in his deposition. But on the stand, Boldiz insisted Sharon wasn't serious and the offer. was quote unquote in a joking fashion.

No one jokes about hiring you as a hitman to kill their husband who they hate and have been trying to get away from for a long time. And if you are- No one jokes about that! If you are around someone who is joking about hiring a hitman, get as far away from that human as humanly possible, because again, they're not joking. Even if you think they are, they're not. They're serious. Why does this happen all the time in these cases where someone's like, I don't know,

they were just joking about killing their dad? And it's like, you're not. joking about it. Never in my life have I been like, what if I gave you like this, this specific amount of money to murder my loved one? I've never had a fully fleshed out joke about murdering anyone that I love. It is just not real. All I can picture in my head is Theresa saying, this man.

Funny laugh, ha-ha. Like, this is just not real. Like this guy sitting on this stand saying like she was always joking. She was always so funny. She's just kidding. She was always so silly. She doesn't feel giggles. She was always just making these crazy jokes.

She's doing a tight ten about me killing her husband. If she gives me a thousand dollars. No, idiot. Especially when someone's offering you a monetary reward for killing this person. And then they're like, just kidding. What are you going to learn? When are you going to learn? It cuts worse.

I'm so annoyed by this case. This is brought to you by the word Wiley in the phrase, it gets worse. It gets worse. He also insisted that there was a quote, unquote typo in his deposition testimony. In the section where he quoted Sharon is saying, quote, I got my husband taken care of and I thought we could be together. He said, it should have read business, not husband. I got my business taken care of. That's quite a fucking typo. That's a real typo. I love when people claim typos and it's like a whole ass word. It's like, that's not a typo.

You just type the word you meant to type and, oops. A typo would be if they spelled husband wrong, if they were like hub sand. Exactly. That's a typo. Husband and business, not so much. What you meant was you said something that was pretty fucking damning and you're like, oops,

I didn't mean to say that damning thing. So I actually meant to say this not super damming thing, but still kind of damming. It's also like, damn, motherfucker. You were really scared of her, huh? Like, what the fuck? You're sitting there safe in your deposition

in the hands of police being like, oh my gosh, she said all of this and I'm, ah, she's a crazy cuckoo woman. But he's like, is Sharon. I would never. She's the comedian of our generation. I didn't say that at all.

I would never be smirch her name like that. Sharon, you have to believe me. He's like, no, she should have a Netflix special. Oh, my God. She's so funny. She does it for the lulls. Wow. So Sharon's defense attorney, James Quinn, there.

He's seized on the inconsistencies. Thank goodness. Well, no. Or no, oh, it's her defense attorney. I saw you thought you thought that. He's seized on the inconsistency in Boldie's story. In his cross-examination, he asked, It was obviously a joke, wasn't it?

It was just like if I'd said to you, John, I'd give you $100 to see you jump off of City Hall, wasn't it? He's like, we're all just lolling and laughing and having good times with each other, John, right? We're all just comedians. We're all just so funny. Our jokes are great. But despite what Boldie's had previously told the prosecutor, the implication of defense attorney Quinn's question was that, you know, any rational person would consider such a discussion to be a joke, and Sharon obviously wasn't serious.

about hiring someone to murder her husband. I literally can't. I can't when this is a defense. I literally can't when it's like jokes, everybody jokes. It's like, no. Jokes are what,

no, like jokes are jokes. Yep. I love a good joke. Oh yeah. I love comedy. I am for comedy. Same.

But when you joke about killing your husband and offering someone money to do so and then your husband gets murdered, it's pretty weird. That's a problem for, you. And that's when jokes are not fun. Like, that's a problem. Of course it is. That's why joking about hitmen is not a great

idea. Not funny. So in their closing arguments, both sides rested their cases. The prosecutor contended that Sharon had killed James in order to get rid of him and cash in on his various life insurance policies. And the defense maintained the initial conclusion that it was an accidental shooting and Sharon was the

funniest woman in all of history. And Quinn reminded the jury of the obvious lack of evidence in the case, saying and then, with no more evidence than the initial investigation, the charge has changed to murder? But the jury went into deliberation on the afternoon of January 11th, and they deliberated a little over an hour before court was adjourned for the day. Outside of the courthouse, a confident James Quinn told reporters,

we feel Sharon will be acquitted in this case. We believe the state's evidence failed to hit the mark. And he was right. The state really didn't have the strongest case in the world, which is why it came as a surprise to nearly everyone when the jury returned the next afternoon with a guilty verdict. Damn! They said, guilty.

What the fuck is going on? Where am I? So the press noted that the outcome of the case, quote, hinged on the testimony of John Boldie's. And the reporter said that his attempts to reframe his earlier testimony as nothing more than a joke actually ended up making Sharon look way more suspicious. It absolutely did. Now, Sharon appeared to give no reaction or show any real emotion when the verdict was. was red. But the matron who booked her into the jailhouse that afternoon told the press she had little tears in her eyes and she said she didn't feel good. Now the next day Sharon gave an interview

to the press saying, I think the verdict was a mistake. Something went wrong. And when it came to why, this bitch, when it came to why she believed she'd been convicted, she said, for a while I thought it was a good idea to have a woman on the jury. Now I don't think so. Oh, fuck off Sharon. Bitch! Bligh right off. Implying that the sole female juror had been jealous or judgmental and that led to the guilty verdict. No, it's the fact that you're an ice cold fucking killer who blamed this on your child, asshole. And you know what?

That's the thing. Further cements the idea that you would blame a death on your two-year-old daughter. You suck. And also kill the woman who is married to the man you're having an affair with who you don't even love. Sharon is not a girl's girl. You are not a fucking girl's girl, Sharon. She's not. You're honestly not even a guy's girl.

I don't know what you are, but you're... She kind of is a guy. girl. Yeah. Your sinister vibe. She is sinister vibe. So Sharon received a life sentence for the murder of her husband. Bye.

And during her first year in... During her first year in jail, her lawyers and supporters petition the court to have her released on bail, citing her children as a reason for the request. I'm like, y'all, she blamed one of them for this. I'm sorry. What? Like, she got... What?

She just got convicted of murder. And you're like, no. She has baby. She just got convicted of murder of which she blamed her two-year-old daughter for. And you're like, but you should take care of those kids. I'm saying. I don't think she should be anywhere fucking near those children. Are you

kidding me? No. What is happening over there? I don't know. Missouri is not alright. Missouri, Independence, Missouri is out here wild and wild and. Are you okay? No, the answer is there. Anybody out there, you all right? I mean, hopefully now. Like twice if you need help. Like, this is wild. I hope

it's gotten better since then. would. Damn. I don't think Sharon's there anymore. I can delay that much. But the petitions were repeatedly denied, but the ongoing coverage of the now completed trial did help win Sharon's sympathy from the support in the public. And while the support was not enough to overturn the verdict, who's the public? At this independent. It did prompt a re-evaluation of the trial. Shut up. During the re-evaluation, defense attorney Quinn there argued repeatedly that Sharon was deserving of a new trial because of several administrative errors. Initially, the petitions were denied, I said, but when the case finally reached the state Supreme Court in early 1963, the

justice has agreed with the defense and ordered Sharon to receive a new trial. I got to go. So in July, she was freed on a $25,000 bond. She had literally been convinced. Elena just smacked her microphone and banged into the wall. She is outy 5,000. She said, I got to go. She said I quit.

I can't. This is so frustrating. She had been acquitted of one month. murder, sentenced to life in prison for another, and all this, and then they're like, actually, I don't think so. And then they just let her walk? They just let her walk. No.

No. Absolutely not. Even though she'd been freed on a technicality, the growing wave of support for her freedom was a strong indicator of what was to come. Yeah. And of course, over the course, sorry, not of course, over the course. He went, oh. I didn't know where I was.

This is a frustrating case. It is very frustrating. Over the course of 1963 and 1964, the prosecutor's office would retry Sharon two more times, both resulting in a mistrial. The first, because of a jury member's undisclosed conflict of interest. Come on. I'm like, you and Sharon fuck.

I was just going to say, was that the reason? Not a doubt in my mind. And the second, because of a deadlocked jury, which was actually leaning in favor of. of acquittal. Oh my gosh. Now, despite the jury... Oh, my God. Go listen to scream. Oh, my

God. So despite the jury leaning toward acquittal in the third trial, the prosecutor's intent to try Sharon for a fourth time for the murder of James Kinney was untenable. After years in courtrooms and jail cells, the entire process

had become exhausting for Sharon. For us too. And for us, and everybody in independence. She was so. splitting her time between her trials, her children, and her part-time job. Now she was working at a motel. So in a moment of impulsivity, she decided to quit her job, figuring that it would allow her to spend more time with her kids,

evident or allegedly. So she went down to the employment office to apply for benefits. Now, this is insane. It was at the employment office in August of 1964 that Sharon first laid eyes on Frank Paglisi, who was a head. head of her in line struggling to understand the paperwork he was being asked to filled out. Oh no. Like many of Sharon's lovers,

Paglisi was a blue collar guy who dropped out of high school at 16 and, you know, had been drifting around the Midwest for years, taking random jobs where he could find them. He also had a criminal history of petty crimes and had spent short stints in jail. And actually, he had recently gotten out of jail. That's why he was looking for work at the employment office. Awesome. Somehow,

Sharon involved herself in his struggle with the paperwork, and the two of them hit it off and started dating. This gal. What a meat cute. What a meet cute. She is quitting her job and applying for benefits, you know, awaiting her murder trial. And she meets a man who just got out of jail. Honestly, Sharon, like, damn. Meant to be.

Damn. Damn is right. This is wild. She's also, I'm pretty sure, like, 28 or 29. at this point. Like she's, I'm like, your 20s were such a ride, Sharon. Your 20s, yeah, this is just outrageous. So after the stress of all of her legal woes, Sharon welcomed the male attention and affection,

and she and Frank dated through the rest of the summer and into the fall. And just like her other relationship, Sharon and Frank fell for each other very fast, and by September, she convinced him to sign what she considered an informal marriage contract. Wow. Like, they didn't legally go. get married, but she was like sign this. It says we're married. Some people just have this way. I don't get it. It's amazing. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what Sharon possessed, but I'm just like, sure I know. She was good at something. But the problem, however, was that her new

trial was set to begin in early October. Oops. And despite her uncanny ability to dodge any in all responsibility, there was still a chance that she was going back to prison for the murder of her fucking husband. Yeah. Which I'm also like Frank. You're really jumping onto this ship? Apparently. But if we know Sharon, we know she's got a scheme up that sleeve.

We know Sharon. So about this is, you're going to shit. Oh no. About two weeks into September, she went to her lawyer's office and explained that she and Frank were in love and they wanted to take a vacation to Mexico before their trial, before her trial began. Shut the fuck up. Now, given that she was still out of jail on a $25,000 bond pending the outcome of the

trial, there was some question as to whether she could travel or not. There was some question? There was lots of questions. There was inquiries into whether she should leave for Mexico? Like, Mexico? I don't know why. I'm just losing my ability to speak. Her lawyer explained.

Her lawyer explained it that as long as she was back before the trial again, it was okay with him. No. Just come back. No. Just come back for your murder trial after going to Mexico. Have you ever watched a fucking TV show? God damn it. Hurry back now, Sharon.

Hurry back now you're here for your murder trial. Jesus fucking Christ. I can't. We're never seeing Sharon again. You know what's crazy? We are. We are going to see Sharon again in this case. I can't predict shit in this case.

It doesn't make any sense. Like I said, brought to you by Wiley. So, on the afternoon of September 12th, 1924, Sharon made multiple trips to the local Safeway grocery store. As one does. Each time writing bad checks to get cash for her trip. For his part, Frank fell back on his old ways and stole food, cash and other supplies from his friends and associates.

Frank and Sharon. And also was able to borrow a car from a friend that he and Sharon would eventually take up to the border. My goodness. Or down to the border, down to the border. Later that afternoon. It's always down. Yes, sure is.

Later that afternoon with cash in hand and a carload of food and supplies, Sharon dropped her kids off with her, I guess, ex-mother-in-law. And she and Frank took off for Mexico. So she just dropped her kids. She abandoned her children. So they drove almost nonstop for two days until they reached Laredo, Texas, the last stop before crossing into Mexico. But unfortunately for them, without the proper paperwork or registration proving ownership of this vehicle, the border agents refused to let them go through Mexico or go through to Mexico in the car.

And they were like, that's fine. They ditched it at the border and took the bus into Mexico City. This man borrowed a whole ass vehicle from his friend and then said, it just left it. It's at the border. Sorry. Got to go get it. The fuck. Now, although they made it pretty easily to their destination, neither of them spoke. Spanish. Why the

fuck are you going to plan a trip to Mexico if you don't speak Spanish? Like any Spanish whatsoever. I have I don't know. I don't know. The answer is I don't know. That made communication a pretty big problem. Did it? Yeah. Now on September

14th they checked into the hotel gin, which the couple chose simply for its quote unquote quaint name. I'm like, you chose that hotel because you thought they had gin. Yeah, that checks. But when they arrived, they found that the hotel was anything but quaint. There were roaches climbing up the walls of the bathroom and rats and mice running from one room to another before disappearing through the

holes that were in the walls. No. It was also in a neighborhood that Sharon had deemed unsafe, so she kept a pistol and a hatchet by her bed at all times. Uh-oh. I have to say, Frank, baby, do you know? Do you, like, have you read the local paper when you were back in Independence? Oh, no. Oh, no. You're sleeping next to a woman who is supposed to head to trial soon for the murder of her husband, and you go to sleep next to her at night when next to her is a hatchet and a pistol? Oh, no. The wild thing? It's not Frank.

It's not Frank? It's not Frank? Wow, I thought it was going to be Frank. No. So after a few days enjoying the local nightlife, Frank and Sharon were running very low on money, and they were both really sick from an excess on local food and alcohol. Probably more alcohol than food. So on Friday, September 18th, Sharon left the hotel gin to go in search of an English-speaking pharmacist who could give them something for their stomachs.

And she brought her pistol with her for protection. Now, after struggling to find anyone who could accommodate her, a local man directed her to the Del Prado Hotel, a hotel that catered to American tourists, where she could definitely find somebody who spoke English and Spanish. Now, the first person that she encountered at the hotel was Francisco Paredes-Oordones, a Mexican-born resident of California, who was in Mexico to visit his family. Oh. Now, Sharon was already fed up with Frank and the frustrations of running low on money, so she welcomed the opportunity for some male attention. Fucking Sharon. And with the pistol tucked in her pocket, she did not hesitate when Francisco suggested that they go back to his room for a few drinks. he thought she was pretty.

Now, what happened next is a matter of debate. And if you're putting any money on Sharon, I don't know what I can do for you. Yeah. But according to Sharon, after two or three drinks with Francisco, she got tired and laid down on the bed to go to sleep for a while, take a little nap. She claimed that she was woken around 3 a.m.

when he tried to, quote, attack her sexually. And she said, believing herself to be in danger, she drew the pistol from her pocket and fired twice into his chest, killing him instantly. Now, the noise drew the attention of the hotel's night manager, Enrique Rueda, who ran to the room to find out what the fuck was going on. Now, coming upon the scene of an unknown woman having shot one of the hotel guests, he attempted to detain Sharon while he contacted police. And that's when she raised the gun and shot him in the back, leaving him in critical.

condition. Yeah. But despite his gunshot wound and eventual critical condition, he managed to lock her in the bathroom while he contacted the police. This man is a hero. And the police arrived a short time later. Now, having left one of the men at the hotel alive, there was no question of Sharon's involvement in the shooting.

But there was some question as to who the fuck she was. When they arrived in Mexico, Sharon and Frank checked in. to the hotel that they were at as Mr. and Mrs. Frank Poglisi, but her identification said otherwise. So a representative from the embassy told reporters, we were a little confused about this girl, but Kenny was the name on her tourist card. And when they did confirm her identity, officials learned that she was due in court just a few weeks later to stand trial for the murder of her husband, a date that now she would not be making. My God! So even though she maintained that she'd only shot Francisco and self-defense,

hence, Sharon also made several unexpected comments to the authorities at the embassy, including telling one man, I've shot men before and managed to get out of it. What the fuck? I don't think she gave a fuck at this point. She's just like, I just shoot men on a regular basis and I get through it, so I'm not really worried about this. It's kind of my thing. Damn. It's like, really, you're in an unknown territory right now.

So a few days later, once they were confident that Rueira would live, Mexican authorities announced plans to charge and try Sharon Kinney for the murder of Francisco Ordones, whom they believe she murdered in an attempted robbery. Ah, that makes sense. I believe, too, she was running low on cash. It's clear what she was doing. Yeah. Now, while officers from the Mexican Secret Service investigated the shooting,

Sharon was taken to Le Cumbary prison in Mexico City, where she was to be held until the trial. Now, unlike the trials in the United States, she had no support in Mexico. and her only connection was with her embassy appointed lawyer, Heine O'Lara. On September 26, 1964, both Sharon and Frank Puglisi were arraigned on murder charges. I don't know if it was because, like, some kind of, like they thought it was a plot.

Oh, conspiracy, exactly. Later, the charges against Frank were dropped and he was deported back to the U.S. But Sharon continued to be held at that prison. And she was fucking furious that, that she was being denied bail for the shooting. Now, having learned of her arrest and imprisonment, the Mexican press dubbed her La Pistolera.

Ah, that's where it comes from. Which translates to the holster in English. Oh, okay. I thought it would translate to the pistol. But it's like the pistol holder. Exactly. Holster, yeah, exactly, the holder. Now, having learned of the shooting and arrests,

authorities and independence, Missouri, contacted Mexico's Secret Service to request that the pistol used in the shooting, be sent to the U.S. for tests. Mexican authorities declined the request, citing the open case, but they did agree to send spent shells to detectives in Missouri. When the shells were tested by a ballistics expert at the crime lab, quote,

they announced the spent bullets were identical to those found under the body of Patricia Jones. In and under the body of Patricia Jones. I knew it! But unfortunately, at that point, Sharon had already been acquitted of Jones's murder. Fuck double jeopardy and shit. So the prosecutor had no choice but to publicly declare that the murder had been solved and the case was closed. Oh.

The fucking double jeopardy of it all. So Sharon finally went on trial in a Mexican court in the fall of 1965 where she pleaded not guilty to a myriad of charges. Homicide, causing bodily injuries, illegal use of firearms and possession of false documents. Damn. In her defense, Hagenio Lara, or Lara told the, three-judge panel that Sharon had fallen asleep in the bed and was awoken when Francisco climbed on top of her in what she believed was an attempted sexual assault. But the panel of judges felt like the evidence didn't support that claim and she was found guilty of simple

homicide and sentenced to 10 years. I was like, that's all you get for homicide. Yeah. And she was sentenced at the newly constructed women's prison and I hope I say this right, is to palapa, which is just outside of Mexico City. Now, after she served the sentence, she would be deported back to the United States. So news of Sharon's imprisonment, of course, spread around the Midwest and the Southwest, which prompted tons of news agencies to send reporters to Mexico to interview her. And each time she maintained her innocence and stuck to her story, assuming that she would soon be free on appeal and back in the U.S.

It's unclear if she knew this or not, but her saying, sentence carried the provision that she had to serve two-thirds of it before she was even eligible for any kind of appeal. Oh, damn. In her case, that would have meant she had to serve six and a half years before being eligible. Whoa. Now, in an interview with a reporter from Missouri, Sharon spent most of the time talking about how much she hated the food at the prison, how the quote, language barrier frightened her and how the other inmates had stolen all of her personal belongings within days of her arrival, which I think is funny. Sucks to suck. There was a ton of interest in the case just after the conviction, but the press coverage slowly faded as the months passed,

and by the winter of 1966, her name was hardly appearing in the U.S. papers. The next time she would come up in the news was in an interview with the Kansas City Star in March of 1969. By that point, she'd settled into life at the prison and told the reporter Kevin Kelligan that she stopped planning for the future. He said, she reminded me of a waitress you'd find at a truck stop. She liked to talk, and she gave you the impression. she'd been around. Damn. I was like, ooh, Kevin.

Oh, Kevin. It's such a Kevin thing to say. It truly is. Now, despite what she told old Kevin there, it turned out that she hadn't exactly given up on her future entirely. Something told me that.

On the evening of December 7, 1969, after serving five of the 10 years of the 10 year sentence, 29-year-old Sharon Kinney attended a movie in the prison recreation hall. Later that evening,

evening when guards made their rounds to do bed checks, they discovered Sharon was missing. Fuck you. No. They discovered that she was missing. Officials searched the prison and its grounds all evening, but turned up no signs of Sharon Kinney and eventually were forced to make a public statement to alert the press and citizens that she had escaped. She had escaped prison in Mexico City. Shut up. In Mexico City police and prison officials had absolutely no fucking clue how she managed to escape from high security modern prison, saying, quote, or saying only that. Newly constructed.

Newly constructed and like a high security prison. Yeah. They said she, quote, probably bribed several jail wardens to let her go. Honestly. I believe it. Probably. An intensive multi-agency search was mounted for her, covering a wide radius around the prison. But after weeks of turning up legit zero evidence, authorities announced in mid-December that,

that they would be easing up the hunt. Like it was costing too much money. A spokesperson for Mexico City police told reporters, our department will continue to hold the case open until Mrs. Kinney is found, but we are not any closer to finding Mrs. Kinney in Mexico City than the day she escaped. Today, more than 50 years after her escape from prison,

Sharon remains a fugitive in Mexico and the United States, and the authorities are not any closer to finding her than when she did escape. What the? The fuck. Now with each passing year, it becomes more and more unlikely that she's still alive. She's like 83 at this point, right? I just did the math.

But if she were apprehended today, she would still face charges in Mexico for the escape. And she would face charges in the United States for the murder of James Kinney. But she has never been found. That woman just fucking barreled through life causing. fucking havoc. Havoc. And loss. And just terror.

And then she just escapes. And she killed at least three people. I'm sorry. Sharon killed more than three people. I know she did. Oh yeah. But she killed at least three. That truck driver that she was like married to before she married James Kinney allegedly.

Oh yeah. That like went off a cliff. Oh, that was the first one. What's up with that? Yeah, what's up with that? What's up with that? He went off a cliff? No.

I don't know about that. If you went off a cliff, it was something going on. Something happened there. But that is the story of Sharon Kinney, aka La Pistolera. I don't even know what to say about that story. There are not words for this woman's whiliness. Idea. Neither did I.

I had no idea. Neither did I. I was just Googling, like, I forget even what I typed in to find this case, but I started reading about it. And I was like, Dave, I got a case that. we have to look into. Oh my God. Dave was like, who is this woman? Like what? Who is this woman? Who's that girl? I'm shocked and appalled. Shocked, appalled. The fact that she's just roving around somewhere. Like, what? Like, if she's alive, she's an 83 year old lady. She could be your grandma. She could be your

grandma, guys. You're listening right there. She could be your grandma. I do hope that her kids. She could be a Grandma's friend. She could be. She could be just your grandma. That's crazy. She could be your straight up grandma. But I hope that her kids are okay. That's what makes me so sad.

I want to know what I'm like... It sounds like they're all right. I mean, she left them with James Kinney's parents. It sounds like... So hopefully James Kinney's parents just to care of them. Yeah. I hope they're doing okay. Yeah.

They had a lot of upheaval in the early years. Yeah. And I hope Dana knows that she didn't shoot her dad. Yeah, that's the other thing. She didn't shoot her dad. fucking way. No, Sharon did it. And it's gross that Sharon even slightly implied. Gross isn't even the word. It's like, there are not words for the fact that she implied that. It's so gross.

Yeah. What a fucking wild tale. Wow. That's real. Yeah. So, with that, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it. Weird. But not so weird as any of this, because what the actual fuck, Sharon. I'm just like, Sharon. I can't put words together.