Morbid - Ed Gein: The Butcher of Plainfield (Part 3)

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

What drove the mild-mannered farmer to commit such hideous and depraved acts in America’s heartland, and why do people from around the world continue to find him so infamous?Thank you to the magical Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1968. "Gein prosecution winds up murder testimony." Capital Times, November 9: 9.—. 1968. "Gein ruled fit to stand trial." Green Bay Press-Gazette, January 16: 1.Capital Times. 1958. "Bar Gein house admission fees." Capital Times, March 12: 4.—. 1957. "Claims ten skulls came from graves ." Capital Times, November 18: 1.—. 1958. "Gein insane, psychiatrist tells court." Capital Times, January 6: 3.—. 1957. "Nearly wed gein, woman reveals." Capital Times, November 20: 1.—. 1957. "Plan to open at least two." Capital Times, November 23: 1.—. 1957. "Weeping Gein joins minister in prayer." Capital Times, November 22: 1.—. 1957. "'Won't believe' graves robbed ." Capital Times, November 19: 1.Daily Tribune. 1954. "Believe Bancroft tavernkeeper was slain." Daily Tribune, December 9: 1.—. 1944. "Rites today for the man who died in Roche-a-Cri fire." Daily Tribune, May 19: 1.Engel, Dave. 2005. "Whatever happened to Mary Hogan?" Daily Tribune, December 5: 6.La Crosse Tribune. 1957. "State pushes murder charges against ." La Crosse Tribune, November 22: 1.Portage Daily Register. 1957. "New rifle in shop used in slaying storekeeper." Portage Daily Register, November 19: 1.Schechter, Harold. 1998. Deviant: The Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the Original Psycho. New York, NY: Gallery Books.Stevens Point Journal. 1958. "Ed Gein's real estate sold for under $4,000." Stevens Point Journal, March 31: 1.—. 1958. "Gein farmhouse leveled by early morning blaze." Stevens Point Journal, March 20: 1.—. 1958. "Open house at Gein farm draws crowds." Stevens Point Journal, March 24: 1.—. 1957. "Results of lie test announced." Stevens Point Journal, November 20: 1.—. 1954. "Woman's disappearance hints slaying at Pine Grove tavern." Stevens Point Journal, December 9: 1.United Press. 1957. "Hospital gets ready for Gein." Capital Times, November 23: 2.United Press International. 1968. "Ed Gein found guilty of 1957 murder in Plainfield." Capital Times, November 14: 2. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. Super morbid. Here we are. Hey, hey, hey, hey. How are you, everybody? I am hopped up on espresso at this current.

I love that. I love that for you. I went back to my brown sugar and oat milkshake and espresso, and I'm like, I miss that. Yeah, forget stomach problems, who cares? And you know what, falls are coming? And that feels very fall. Do you feel like... I know it's only on.

guess not even. No, no, no, it's pre-October. It is. Do you feel, though, like today feels very fallish? It does. It has the vibe. Yeah. And then all the stores have Halloween stuff out. Yes, exactly. So I'm feeling real. I'm with it. I had to go for a drive today because Drew did something silly and I had to go pick something up from him. But the drive just felt very fallish to me. It does. It's got the vibe. And I just feel like as soon as the Halloween stuff comes out, I'm like, all right, spooky season's here, everybody. I know me too. It's officially. here. Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, last night, I had a dream about the leaves changing, and then I woke up this morning, and I was so sad that the leaves didn't change. I know. I love green as

much as the next gal, but I'm like myself. I'm like Michelle Vassage when it comes to green, unless we're talking like green, green, green, like green, like you don't green green green green. You're not green. Yeah, I want it to change. I want Massachusetts fall. I want foliage. I want fall festivals. I want pumpkins all over my porch. I want to drive two hours just to see some better leaves. Yes. That still look the same. Exactly.

There's like more of them, I guess. It just feels better. Yeah. Everybody's, everybody feels me. And you know what? If we all just work together, we can have Halloween this year. Yeah. I hope so.

Right now it's not looking great. But you know, we'll figure it out. I mean, we'll figure it out, everybody. We have each other. We do. We have each other. I can come here in Halloween. But I would really like to go to a haunted house, everybody.

So let's, oh my God. I want to go to a haunted house yesterday. We're all in this together. Let's make that happen for us. That's what we're all working towards a haunted house. Please. That's all. Please.

Let us work towards that. Just saying, okay? Just saying. All right. So should we tell them what we're going to talk about today, even though they already clicked on the episode? Yes. And also, just quickly, if you hear like a weed whacker in the background, you know, I got

neighbors and these neighbors really don't, they don't appreciate that I'm recording at any given time during the day or night. And that man is always weed whacking. He's whacking so many weeds. Like, you don't. have that many weeds, sir. Like, like you said, he's not doing it right if he's got to do it that much. Well, he's not doing it right either because he just goes, and then like it pauses for 30 minutes and then it's like, so he's just whacking it for a second. That sounded terrible. But I don't know.

I don't know his life. Maybe he is. But we, if you hear that in the background, I'm sorry, I'll do what I can to drown it out. But, you know, this is what we get for being in suburbia, you know. fucking suburbia. All right. Well, today we're going to be talking about Charles Schmid, aka the Pied Piper of Tucson. I literally didn't know what you said at first where you were like, Char Schmitt. Chal Schmid.

I was like, what is that? It's hard to say because it's like Charles and then you have to like pick it up with like another. Chalzschmid. Charles Schmid. Like it's like your voice doesn't want to stop saying the first S. And the Pied Piper. The Pied Piper. I know this one.

And whoo. Yeah. Weird, weird story. Here we are. That was a fairy tale, I guess. Yeah, it's really gross. It's like folklore. Yeah.

What is it? Who knows? I don't know. This is about Charles. You know it. You get what we're talking about. Hi. This is about Charles and he was born on July 8th, 1942, long time ago.

Long time ago. Long time ago. In Tucson, Arizona. Now, Charles's biological mother wasn't married at the time when Charles was born. Oh, scandalous. The most scandal. It was super duper frowned upon back then, as we all know, things sucked back then. So she was like, yeah, I have to put you up for adoption because I'm unwed.

Wow. Yeah. It's fucked. That's escalation. Yeah, it is. But, you know, he did get adopted by an amazing family. Oh. Charles Sr. and Catherine Schmidt were the ones to adopt him.

They were super well-to-do people and they made a very good living because they owned the Hillcrest nursing home in Tucson. Charles was also their only child. So they had like all that dough. He doaded on them. Oh. Or they do it on him. They do it on him, not vice versa.

Yeah, not vice versa. I haven't had espresso yet. Have some because I'm like, whoa. But they spoiled the crap out of him. His allowance, I read, was $300 a month. And you know I love to check out what the purchasing power would be today. You love it. A super chill $3,382 a month.

For an allowance. For an allowance, just like for doing jack shit. Meanwhile, that's like a great paycheck a month. Like literally. Like doing like actually. actual job. Like actual labor. Yeah. Yeah, this dude was making serious coin just existing. Wow. But I think that this was kind of one of those families that looked really happy and prestigious from the outside, but there was a lot going on behind closed doors, specifically between Charles and his father,

because they would always be arguing. And most of the time, it seems like they were arguing because Charles was like never doing well in school, even though he was really intelligent and described as super intelligent by his own teachers and classmates. One of those not living up to his potential. Exactly. But where Charles did live up to his potential was in gymnastics. He was like an amazing gymnast apparently. Wow. And he was on his high school's team. He was actually the reason why they went to the state championships one year. So random like, that's a very random fact. Random talent. Yeah. And then so he was super good. But then for some reason during senior year, or like when he got to senior year, he just didn't want to be a gymnast anymore.

And he quit. So see, potential again, just wasting it. Yeah, it's like a theme here. It's a pattern. Now that same year, he was also caught stealing from the machine shop at school. He was like stealing some tools. So he got suspended. But Charles took that punishment and decided to personally extend it and just never go back

to classes. Oh, okay. Yeah. He was like, you know what? I need to be punished further. I think he was just like, I'm good with school. So I'm good. I'm going to dip. And it was literally right before he graduated. Like, he was very close to graduating.

It was like, just, why don't you hang on tight? What is strange guy so far? And it's, it only gets stranger. Like, it's like, why wouldn't she just finish it out? I don't know. But I feel like there's people like that in my graduating class that were just like, bye. And I was like, but we're so close. Yeah, like you might as well like this. Like, I don't want to be here either, but like, it's a month away. So, like, fuck it. It's like leaving one bite of the apple. And you're like, just take that last bite. Yeah, exactly. Why is it? Like, just finish it. weird analogy, but I don't know. I like apples. I really want one. It's fall. Okay. It's fall in my brain. It's fall here. But yeah, somehow his parents just still agreed to let him stay with them. He

actually lived in his own place that was on their property. And they continued to give him that insane allowance and also allowed him a new car and a motorcycle. Now, I don't know if he bought those things with his allowance like himself. I doubt it because he wasn't really into like spending his own money. I think I'm like, were these graduation gifts that maybe they just couldn't return? They bought him, you know, hoping he was going to finish that whole thing out. Yeah, couldn't get store credit, I guess. Yeah. Like, you're 18.

Get a job or finish school. You've got two choices. Yeah. But when he wasn't slumming off his parents, he would drive his vehicles around and hit on girls while hanging out with his buds. You know, just dude shit. Just guys being dudes. Yeah, bros being man.

Exactly. Now, even though a lot of people referred to him as a loner, he had a small group of friends, and he would hang out with them most of the time. So he, like, he like, always had people with him, it seemed. and I was like, how did they describe him as a loner then? Because he's constantly surrounded by the, like, a couple of these characters. But maybe he just like, I don't know. Sometimes it's like an introverted extrovert.

You know what I mean? Like you hang out with people, but you'd really rather be alone and you kind of make it known. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's actually how I feel. I like became an introverted extrovert. Yeah. I think I rubbed up on you a lot too. I think you did.

I think this pandemic has just made me a mini you, but not completely. But yeah, so Paul Groff was one of trying. Charles's best friends that actually lived with him for a while. Paul himself was known around town as a pretty bad dude. Uh-oh. He ended up in prison at a pretty young age because he just, you know, killed a man during an armed robbery. Oh, you just shot a man in Reno, just to see how it fell.

He did. He literally did. Wow. Except in Tucson. Yeah, he shot a man in Tucson. So he ended up in prison for a little bit. I think he only got like five years is what I read. And I was like, what? But he was a juvenile, so all that weird shit.

Just a spell in Jews. Just just a vacation. Now, the two other closest guys to Charles were called John Saunders or Sanders. I think it's Saunders. There's a U. Sounds fancy. Fuck it. And Richie Bruns.

Now, they were younger than him. And almost everyone in Charles's circle was younger than him. And they all referred to him as either Smitty or the Romeo of Tucson. Get out. Immediately leave the room. Like known around town is the Romeo of Tucson. Leave the planet. What?

You know, this is maybe he, I got a type. Maybe he's just not my type, but I don't understand. Maybe he's just not my type. Maybe he's just not for me, but see, the thing is, I could see where he would be handsome if he didn't do all the things that I'm going to tell you he did to his appearance and to other people. No, thank you. Right. No, thank you. Right. Nope. And he just, he's very strange and odd. And that's fine, but like not when you pair. with murder. Yeah. But we'll get there.

Now, eventually he would be known as the Pied Piper of Tucson, and I'm sure you'll see why. Because, like I said, he knows the tale. He likes to hang around with a younger crowd. I also feel like there's always one guy from your high school class that loves to hang out with the younger people. Yeah, because it gives them some sense of, like, power and authority. Yeah. And that's, I'm the cool guy.

And that is exactly what Charles had going on. Yep. So when he turned 18, he decided it was time for a fucking makeover. Hell yeah. New look. Of course. Stacey and Clinton were like, that's not what you wear. New Year new me.

That's not what you look like. So he dyed his hair pitch black. And he started wearing makeup that literally, if you look into, if you like Google Charles Schmidt like makeup, every article you read will describe his makeup as pancake makeup. Pancake makeup. Every article. And he also added a really large mole on his cheek. Yeah, I was going to ask about that.

Yeah, that was painted on because he wanted to look meaner. Because you know how moles just make people so mean. I was just going to say, I don't generally look at people with a mole and be like, who stay clear of them. Marilyn Monroe? So aggressive. Terrifying. Like Cindy Crawford, I'm not like she'll cut you.

Meanie, bobeeney. Yeah, like, don't go near her. She'll break you in two. It's like, no, usually it's like a beauty mark kind of deal. It makes you look like, I don't even know. I don't even really get that. He didn't draw like a Cindy Crawford beauty mark or like. a Marilyn Monroe, he drew like a giant mole on the side of his face. It's literally just a large

circle, a large black circle on his face. I'm very confused. I was going to ask about that because in some pictures I was seeing, I was like, he doesn't have that. Yeah, I think he probably couldn't do that anymore when he got to prison. Yeah. They were probably like, you can't have a sharp object. Oh, he has a very punchable face. The most. Yeah. And you'll only want to punch him as this unfold. Yeah, I hate him already. Now, he was also pretty short in stature. I don't know if you have a picture over there of exactly like what he looked like from head to toe. Yeah. He was only about five, three.

Wow. He probably looks a little taller in those pictures that you're looking at because he would wear cowboy boots that were too big for him. I literally just opened a picture of him with cowboy boots. The exact one. He's like in his prison jumpsuit. And he's like, yeah, he's mad. He's got like a duck face.

Yeah, before the duck face. But yeah, he would wear cowboy boots that were too big so that he could stuff rags and folded up cans into them before putting them on. on. So that way he would add a few inches to his height. They're like DIY lifts. But then he would walk around like very weird because he's probably crunching on cans. Crunching on cans and like balancing on cans and rags. So he would literally like, I don't even know what, what is this movement that like he would walk around like this. Just that like bad swagger. That like, like, bad swagger, but like he was basically just trying not to fall all the time. Just a wobble. But his friend Richie was like,

he would rather look crazy walking than like walk around short. And it's like, honey, just own the height. If you have everything, like, you can make that, that height is nothing. If you're like a cool person and you're, like, look at Napoleon. He did a whole deal. But then again, I'm looking at him and I'm like, you don't have that essence. So it's like that's, yeah. Exactly. But that's the strangest way to remedy short stature that I have ever seen. Like, why not just add platform? forms inside of the shoes. Like, you have the money. Or just, like, don't be, like, terrible and don't draw a giant mole on the side of your

face and don't have zero, like, redeemable qualities. And then short stature doesn't matter at all to anyone. Write that all down. Don't do any of that. Just don't do any of that. No. And also, it just sounds, like, really uncomfortable. Like, why do you want to walk around on cans all day?

But he was also using a clothespin to stretch out his bottom lip. So I don't really think comfort was, like, his thing. He has a lot going on. The most. One might say the most and one might be correct. Yeah. Now, he did that bottom lip thing with the clothespin and you can see in certain pictures, his lips look a lot fuller than others.

Like, they look poutier. Yeah. And it was because Elvis Presley had that kind of like pout going on at the time. Oh, he thinks he's like, he loved Elvis Presley. Like, that's what he was going for. You didn't make it. Yeah. You didn't make it there.

It's just a lot to unpack. You didn't do it. He was also so obsessed. I mean, obviously, with everything I just said, he was so obsessed with his image. But Richie said that he would stand in front of the mirror for hours, just trying out different looks and mannerisms. Wow. So we've got like a real narcissist here.

An absolute narcissist. This is like a total Ashkel side note right here. You're going to be like, what's the correlation? But last night, I found out that J-Lo does the same thing. She gets ready like hours and hours before an event and stands in front of the mirror and tests out different angles to make sure she looks good from them all. Wow. No, she didn't say that herself, so I don't know if that's true.

But I did hear that somewhere. I was reading it. It wasn't on TikTok. I actually didn't read it. No, I actually read it somewhere. I mean, I believe it because she always looks great. She does look amazing. So, I mean, if she came prepared to play, I believe that.

To play and sleigh. I believe that. And it's like, Richie said that Charles did all that would stand in front in the mirror for hours. But I'm like, you still look all kinds of tomfoolery. walking around town. Yeah, it didn't work for him. He's still very busted up. But it's weird because the girls were in love with him. I mean, a different time, I suppose. It was like the misunderstood youths going through their like 60s emo phase that were really into him. That's the thing. It's like,

can I say that like, we all, we've all been attracted to someone that you look back on and you're like, what? You mean every person I ever dated before Drew? Correct. We joke about it all the time. I don't think. I got better sight, apparently. Yeah. You're just waiting for Drew. That's I was. But yeah, so Smitty would hang out with all these younger kids, and I think obviously that added to it. He was like the older cool dude who walked around on tin cans, I guess. Yeah. But the guys wanted to emulate his vibe for some reason, and the girls wanted to be next in line for a date. It truly was a wild time. Wow. No, he would tell all of his young female admirers that he had some kind of connection to the mafia because he thought that was super cool

back then. He would also tell them that he was terminally ill, obviously, to make them fall harder for him, I guess. And then once they were falling for him, he would tell them that he knew a hundred ways to make love. I hate this. I hate it so much. Imagine you're on a date with this dude and you're drive it around in his fucking, I don't know, thunderbird. And he's like, hey, baby, I know a hundred ways to make love. Oh my God. I hate it. The road rash I would get from rolling out of that fucking car. at full speed. I, peace out. Peace out. So much. So that's what he would say to the ladies. To the ladies. And to the dudes, he would turn around and say he was continually like, you know, getting it from all these girls. And he would describe these like crazy sex capades to them. And I'm sure they honestly,

like didn't go down like he bragged. They did. But he was always telling wild stories of his sexual exploits. Wow, Charles. He is such a. a conundrum. He's an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. And cash. And tied with something scary. I don't know. A snake. A snake. It tied with tin cans. Exactly. But people started to see a different side of Charles pretty abruptly. Now, it was May 31st, 1964. And he was hanging out with his girlfriend, Mary Ray French. So you know she's an evil son of a bitch because she's got three names. Yep. There it is. John Saunders was there as well. He's, also an evil son of a bitch, but I guess he only has two names. Cool. And while they were all hanging out at Charles's place, Charles was just like, I really want to kill someone and I think we could get away with

it. Oh, okay. I want to kill a girl tonight, and I think we can get away with it. All right. He was 22 years old at this point. I'd be like, you know, it's time. It's time that we just go our separate ways. It's time for me to dip. It's actually my curfee right now. Got to go by. Yeah, it's time to end this night. Now, not only did he want to kill someone, he knew exactly who he wanted to kill. He wanted to kill Aline Roe. Aline was 15 years old, living with her mom on the same street as Charles's girlfriend, Mary French. She was a really good student, and after high school, she would have gone straight to college. Her dream was to become an oceanographer, which I'm like, you're just the coolest. Seriously. And she looks like the coolest. I'm like, I love you. Now, Aline's parents had recently gotten

divorced, so it was just the two of them in the house, her mother and her. They were super close, and lately, though, there were a couple things that were concerning her mom, Norma. One thing was that Aline seemed to be very interested in the topic of death and specifically what happens after we die. So she was talking a lot about it and like reading and everything about it leading up to the night of May 31st, almost like it was like a premonition that she had, you know? And she said that if reincarnation was what really happened to people that she wanted to come back as a cat, which I was like, me too, actually. I was going to say, I think that's awesome.

Yeah, cats lived the best life. Yeah, why not? Now, the other thing that was really concerning Norma was that Aline was hanging out with Mary French a lot, and she didn't think Mary was a good influence. So she knew her, like hung out with her. Oh, yeah, like they literally hung out. Wow. Now, Norma had caught the girls in her backyard a few times, smoking cigarettes.

And when Mary wasn't hanging out with Aline, she was with John Saunders or Charles Schmid. And Norma had this gut feeling about Charles. There was just something about him that she didn't trust, like a mother's instinct. I bet it was his face. It absolutely was. And more specifically, his eyes. Yeah. Because there was one day that he and John came by asking for Aline, but she wasn't home.

And Norma later said the look in Charles's eyes that day literally scared her to death, like a grown ass woman. I feel that because there's pictures that I'm looking at. And his eyes really do have like... They're empty. Yeah. Like, you know, everybody always says that, but then you look at this guy's eyes and you're like, no, those are empty eyes. There's like a darkness. There is. There's a darkness about his whole aura. There is. Like, he really does give off a really scary vibe. He does. I think there was a lot of like mental health issues going on there that maybe just never got diagnosed because he never really did get diagnosed with anything. So I'm not sure exactly what it was about Aline that had Charles so intent upon killing her. Some of the sources that I read said that she had stood up John Saunders on a date or turned him down when he asked. But how dare she?

I know, like free will who wants that. Yeah. But either way, on the night of May 31st, 1964, Charles, John, and Mary French pulled onto Aline's street driving Charles's car and Mary headed over to Aline's house. Now, Aline was home alone that night and she headed to bed early after wrapping her hair up in curlers for school the next day. No, because she has great hair. Amazing hair. Like really great hair. Now, she had a big test the next day at school and she wanted to go to sleep early. And she was sleeping when Norma checked on her before heading into work. She worked as a nurse. And she was doing an overnight shift. But Mary tapped on Aline's bedroom window and it must have awoke Aline. And Mary was like, oh, do you want to come out and drink beer with me and Smitty and John in the desert? Like we're just heading out to the desert for a good time. Say no. Say no. Aline did agree. And once they were out there, Mary allegedly sat in the car while Charles and John walked a lean down to a stream bed. This is a huge trigger warning for rape. Just going to give you a second to skip forward if you'd like to.

They made her undress when they got down there and they both raped her. When they were done with that, they just started beating her over the head with rocks. And when they were done with that, Charles walked back up to the car and according to Mary, quote, he got into the car and he said, we killed her. I love you very much. He kissed me. He was breathing real hard and seemed excited. I don't even know what to say to that. That's true, true callousness and evil.

That is just true evil. To just sit at, I can't imagine my boyfriend. I can't even say Drew because I like can't even picture that. Like if I had a different boyfriend and he walked up to the car and was like, we killed her. I love you. Like, thanks so much. I'd hop in the driver's seat and yeat out of there.

And that you brought her to them. But I think she. She knew what she was doing. Yeah. Because people who were friends with, or even just knew Mary French, said that she was so in love with Smitty that she would have done anything for her. Or excuse me, for him. Horrific. Now, a lot of people described Mary as Frumpy.

That was like the number one word used to describe her. Not the name you really want to be saddled with. No, if anybody called me Frumpy, I'd punch her. No, I would not be psyched. No. And they said that she was probably just so happy that Smitty paid her any mind at all. So when he grabbed a shovel from the trunk and told Mary that she needed to come bury the body with him, she scurried along after him. No.

There's never an excuse. There's never an excuse. I don't give a shit if he's an asshole. And wow, he's being nice to you suddenly. That's fucked. No, it's fucked. That's fucked. She later said that the three of them took turns digging a grave for a lien. And when they were finished, they headed back up to the car, wiped it down for a prince, all came up with alibis and just drove back home. And here she is in like her curlers. Yep. Like that just really, I know.

I had to add that part in because she literally went out with her curlers. That adds like a little something to it. It does. I don't know what it is. Because it's just plans for tomorrow. Exactly. Like it's just I'm setting my hair. So I can wake up with curly hair tomorrow and you're not going to wake up tomorrow.

No, that's terrible. Like that just makes it really real. And the other thing was that Mary French wasn't even his only girlfriend. He had like tons of girlfriends at one time. Of course he did. He bought two of his girlfriends, Mary and a night. girl at that time, $13 engagement rings and asked them to marry him. And then the intent was that he was going to have them go to work and open up a joint bank account and they were going to put

their earnings in the bank account. So that's like another way that he was making money. He also once sent Mary to his mother's house with like this crazy elaborate story that she was pregnant when she wasn't. So that like they were able to get married and they tried to get married, but she wasn't old enough, so they couldn't. Oh, my God. But he was just, like, that's just, like, another brief, like, look into his crazy craziness. He just, like, it seems like he just loves chaos. He does. And he creates it. And he creates it. And manipulation and lying. And he just wants, the thing is, he wants to be the center of everybody's world, but he doesn't have anybody at the center of his world other than himself. And he doesn't

know how to care for anyone besides himself. No, he doesn't. Because. He doesn't. Because we'll see that one of his victims, he really did strangely care a lot about them. Oh. But like, in a very strange way. In the only way that he could possibly do. Yeah. Which is probably not the way that any of us know. No.

I hope not. Now, strangely enough, as soon as Aline went missing, her dad told her mother, now remember, they were divorced, but they were still in contact. He said that he just had this weird feeling that she was murdered and left in the desert. He just had that feeling. Whoa. Now, she did like to take walks in the desert by herself at night, which I was like, I'm sorry, what? Oh, no. But I guess she just did that. I mean, if you live in Arizona, there is deserts everywhere. Well, at certain decades, this was much easier to do than now. It's the 60s. Now you can't even walk down your suburban residential street as a woman. Like, can't even walk down your driveway on at night. But so, yeah, it's not out of the realm that that was a possibility because she was in the desert all the time. And parents know their kids, man. They do.

So Norma went to the police and she told them everything. And they told her, Aline probably just ran away. Yeah, totally. That's always really good when that's the first thing that they think of. No. And it's also like, I need statistics. Tell me how often you're right. These girls just run away.

When you immediately go to that. How many girls are just running away from perfectly fine? Right. Like girls that are doing well in school that have plans to go to college that were just studying for a big test the next day. Girls that just set their hair into curlers for the next day. for the next day for their big tests that they went to sleep early for. How many of those are running away the middle of the night? Just let me know. So Norma was like, yeah, fuck you guys. I'm going to do my own

investigation. Hell yeah, Norma. And which is funny that we had two cases this week like that now. So she was like, yeah, like I'm, fuck you. So she would go around talking to Aline's friends and she would record every single piece of information that she got into a tape recorder. Norma. Not only did she do that, but she had this gut feeling about Aline's disappearance. Something. inside of her told her that Charles Schmidt was responsible. And obviously we know she's correct. Again, parents. So she started following him around at night to see what he was up to. And she, like, she said, she was like, I was terrified of him. Like, I was scared that he would find me and do something to me. But Aline was my daughter, or is my daughter. I need to find out what happened to her.

Holy shit. What a badass. So she would just follow him around at night in her car. And this will break your fucking heart. She had this gut feeling that he was responsible for whatever happened to Aline, but just in case Aline did run away, she left her outside light on every single night in case Aline came home. Oh, man, that stuff really always destroys me. Just those little things like that because it puts you in her shoes. It's like she's so convinced that and being realistic, unfortunately, that yeah, her daughter probably was murdered, but she's a mom and there's always that one little piece of you that's like, but maybe I'm wrong. It's like Tara Calico's parents, Patty and John. They put Christmas and the birthday gifts in her room waiting for her to come back.

Because imagine if you are wrong and then you're like, oh, shit. You know, so. And you just think of that, they probably just are constantly thinking of that moment where they walk back in the door. And honestly, that's probably what they're living on. I was just going to say, that's probably what they're living for. Yeah, that's what you survive with. It's like so sad. Now, the case went cold because the police didn't give a shit apparently.

So a year after Aline was killed, Charles was dating a 17-year-old girl named Gretchen Fritz. Gretchen went to a private school and Charles actually saw her at like a local park one day. That's how they met. Gretchen's father was super well liked in the community. He was seen as like a community leader. He also worked as a heart surgeon and it was said that at the time he was one of the nation's leading heart surgeons. Jeez. So just like a casual dude, you know. Oh, and she's gorgeous. Gorgeous. Now she wasn't exactly well liked though. She didn't get along with the girls that she went to school with because she didn't really have a lot in common with them. She was also known to be like a troublemaker.

She kind of seemed like she liked to stir the pot a little bit. Like she showed up to a school dance with these two guys that were dressed like very boho. And at the time that was not good at her private school. Like they were like, ew. I love it. Excuse me. But one of her teacher said that she was quote, erratic, subversive and a psychopathic liar. Whoa.

Yeah. So just that. That took a turn. It did. It truly did. Just okay. Now, after spotting her at the park, Charles followed her home because romance, and he knocked on the door and he said, don't I know you? Oh, no. The answer is always no. No. Even if you do know them. No. No, I don't know you. You don't know me. Gretchin had seen him in the park looking at her and she thought that the fact that he was taking interest in her like this, it was so romantic. So that day, they spent an hour talking with each other and after that they were completely inseparable, mostly because Gretchen would not let Smitty Boy out of her sight. Every. Every, one, including Charles himself, which like, fuck his opinion, but everyone else said that she was super controlling and she would call him every second of the day if they weren't together to find out where he was and what he was doing.

Damn. Now, Charles not only felt like Gretchen was getting too clingy, but she also admitted to him that while she was on vacation in California, she, quote, went out on him, which means, like, obviously she cheated on him. I went out on him. I went out on you. So he lost it and he told her he was going to break up with her. But the. problem with that was that he had also told her that he was responsible for Aline's murder. Not only did he tell her, he drove her out to Aline's gravesite to show her to see if she loved him. What? He was like, I'm going to show you something to make sure you love me. And she said she would. I'd be like, no. I don't want to know any of this.

At that point, I'd be like, oh my God, yeah, I'm so in love with you. Yeah, I would go to the police and I'd be like, so I accidentally fell in love with this guy that's a murderer. Please help me. Whoops. So yeah. He told her all about that and then he was like, yeah, I'm going to break up with you. And she was like, cool, I'm going to tell everybody that you murdered Aline then. Oh, don't do that. Don't say it. Just do it. Some people said that Gretchen knew of more than just Aline's murder and that there was actually one other murder. Now, there was like huge rumors in town that there was an additional murder. But on August 16, 1965, Gretchen and her little sister, Wendy, headed out to see. an Elvis film at the drive-in. Gretchen was driving, and it would be the last night that anybody saw those two girls alive again. Oh, my God.

Now, the police who apparently didn't think it was strange that three girls of very similar ages in the same area had turned up missing within a year. And they told Gretchen and Wendy's father that the girls probably just ran away. All right, guys, that can't be your go-to. That's not the default here. We can't just go, eh, right away. Like, we now have three girls around the same age. I'm going to say it again, around the same age.

in the same area that have turned up missing within a year. And isn't her little sister's, like, how old? Like 13 years old? Yes, 13 years old. Come on. Come on, guys. Really? So Gretchen and Wendy's father was not taking that answer just like Aline's mother.

He actually hired a PI named Bill Ahilig, I think is how you say it, to find out either where they had gone or what happened to them. Now, Bill had multiple people working under him at all times to get any clues. And one night, they found Gretchen's car parked behind the, Flamingo Hotel in Tucson. Inside the car was her purse filled with money. Ooh. So that tells you something. That's a little concerning. Now, what had, what had happened was that somehow Charles had tracked Gretchen and her sister Wendy down and convinced them to come back to his house. Now, one night he told his pal Ritchie there exactly what had happened. Richie later

wrote a book about this all, because as we'll find out, Ritchie pulls the sound alarm. Now, the book he wrote is called I a squealer because he squealed. That's the best name. It's the best. I've ever heard. It's like a super quick read. I a squealer. I a squealer. It was a quick read. It was like maybe 10 bucks on Amazon and it's got some good info. So go read it. I'm pretty obsessed with it myself. But so in the book he said that one night he was just sitting with Charles in the living room, like in Charles's living room. And Charles blurted out, you know I killed her. Oh. And then he went on to say, you know where? I did it here in the living room. First, I don't know. Why would I know that? Why would I know that? He probably, Richie probably did know that though, because we'll see. Everybody knew that.

Everybody knew that. He said, first I killed Gretchen. Then Wendy was still going, huh, huh, huh, like, I think making whimpering noises. He then strangled Wendy as well and went on to say, then I took the bodies and I put them in the trunk of the car. I put the bodies in the most obvious place I could think of because I just didn't care anymore. Then I ditched the car and I wiped it clean. I... What? I really, I don't like him at all. This is like very upsetting. It's so weird because he loved Gretchen. Like he quote unquote loved her. He was like obsessed with her. The two of them were literally obsessed with each other. And then he just snapped on her the second that she was going to go against him. This happens though in these kind of like these diabolical relationships. Yeah,

it's like Ian Brady and Meyer Hindley and stuff. It reminded me of that. Yeah, the relationship just doesn't make any sense. and you're like, do they care about each other? Do they hate each other? I can't decide. I think it's good that we don't understand it. Yeah, I don't want to understand. So that's good. Yeah.

Now, like I said, Ritchie was not shocked hearing this news because he already knew that Charles had killed Aline. They had been hunting together one day and Charles just decided to take him out to the desert and show him exactly where Aline was buried. Guys, can we all like maybe go to the police? Yeah. I mean, I know the police aren't doing a great job so far. No, but maybe if you give it a shot.

But give it some concrete evidence, like where she's buried. Yeah, maybe say, like, I know where the grave is. Exactly. Now, there was, like, a lot of people in town. Now, I don't know exactly who saw the grave other than Gretchen and Richie, but it seems like everybody knew that this was going on and didn't tell the police. My God, and her poor family. And there was, like, a ton of kids that came forward and said, even if they did know, they

wouldn't have squealed on Smitty. Because he was, he was like the pied piper in town. Guys! It's crazy. He murders people. They didn't care. That's insane. It's like this weird like phenomenon that happened.

I was going to say this weird collective psychosis that everybody's just like, it's okay that he's brutally murdering teenage girls. But that's exactly why he's called. He's got that that groovy mole on his face. Yeah, you know. He walks on tin cans. It's always clinging and clanging when he's around. But that's why he ended up being called the Pied Piper because he ended up just fucking stealing all two sons' kids.

Literally. Like wrapping them underneath his spell. Wow. Yeah. So that's bananas. He shows Richie the grave. But now Richie was scared that Charles had just left the two girls' bodies out there in the open. So together they headed out there to bury the bodies. No. He said that Charles took him out into the desert again, a different location this time than where Aline had been buried. They walked out into the distance and he saw the bodies. He said they buried them and they headed home. Charles made him do like all this weird shit like touch one of the girls' shoes. He had him. throw one of the girl's shoes so that his prince were up things too. So Richie was like, okay, so now I'm fucked. Like, I can't go to the police because who's to say he's not going to turn around and pin this on me? And my prints are now on them. Dude, everyone was

being a fucking idiot. That's just dumb as fuck. No, that's literally just the dumbest. I have zero sympathy for you, Richie. The absolute dumbest. Now, a few days later, after they had gone out to the desert together, Richie got a call from Charles saying that he was going to be having a party and like, would you come? So Richie, she had been dating this girl called Kathy Marath at the time, and he had been so convinced that she was going to become Charles' next victim that he was like borderline stalking her to make sure that she was safe. Now, if he was going to go to this party, he would know exactly where Charles was and at least have some kind of peace of mind for one night. Oh, no. So like he knows where Charles is,

so that Kathy's safe. Yeah. Because Richie's main concern became Kathy, like, to the point of like obsession. So he was like, this is a very rickety plan. It's crazy. It's not, not concrete. No. And when he got there, there was not a party going on at all. Of course there wasn't. Charles wasn't even there.

No, of course he starts to panic. He's trying to get you away from Kathy. You would think. He's diabolical. You would think. Oh, man. This takes a twist no one would expect. So there was just a small group of new friends that Charles had been hanging out with,

just hanging out in the living room. But all of a sudden, Charles walked in. They had been there for maybe like 20, 30 minutes. he said it was a while before Charles came back. I'm like, you guys were all just waiting for him. Like, what the fuck? This guy had like power over everybody. So Charles walks in with these two other guys that Richie had never seen before.

And one of them was just like, hey, you're Richie, right? And he was like, uh-huh. No, he asked if he would go. The man asked, will you go for a ride with us? No. So I don't know if Richie thought he was going to go get, like, I don't know if he thought he was getting arrested or if he had any idea what was going on. but he said that he just did what he was told.

Why? I don't know. In my mind, I was like, did you, like, I think he thought he was getting arrested. Richie needs to, like, come on, Richie. Richie was wilded. Jeez. Now, so Charles went along for the ride, too, but not before telling Richie that these two guys were from the mafia.

Oh, boy. Now the mafia's involved, y'all. Oh, boy. And that they had been coming around lately and asking about Gretchen and Wendy. He told Richie that he had. been to the place where they were going and not to worry they weren't going to get hurt. They just had to talk to them, but not tell them the truth. Yeah, trust him. Lie to the mafia. It's a good plan. Trust me, nothing bad will come of this. Right. Now, wherever they went that night is a total mystery.

It was just like a random apartment building. But there were a lot of men in there whose names would become notorious with the New York Mafia in the years to come. And they were already pretty notorious at the time. Oh, good. Now, Charles Bats Pataglia was there. Joseph Joe Banana's Banana son, Salvatore Bonano was there, as well as Joe Bananao Jr. Bonano, I think it might be. Is it banana? Yeah, I think it's banana. Banana. I don't know though. I may be like. Neither do I. But these aren't exactly the guys that you want to question you about the disappearance of two girls that you know for a fact have been murdered and you know exactly where they were murdered and where they currently are right now. Yeah. If it's the bananas I'm thinking of, then yeah, no. I'm sure it is because these are like the

bananas. The bananas. And the bataglias. Wow. Like, I don't want. want to fuck around with that. So Richie told them that he had no idea what happened to either girl because he was fucking terrified that if he did, he would maybe be killed by them or get killed by Smitty. Yeah, because Smitty's terrifying. So Charles Smitty Schmidt there told them that actually Gretchen had been on vacation to California not too long before her disappearance, and he knew that she had run away there to be with the guy that she had cheated on him with. He said he specifically because they were like, why do you know that? Like, why are you so confident? Yeah, why? She's not telling you that. And he's like, well, I knew that she wanted to run away. And I

actually taught her how to run away before that all happened. And they were like, they were like, if she ran away, then why did we find, like, why did the police find her car with her purse and money inside of it? And he was like, I told her to do that to like throw the cops off. Wow, the confidence this guy has. With the fucking mafia. I'm like. And in the. And in the. And in the. And in the, like most shaky story I've ever heard. He has a lot of confidence telling it to the mafia. Seriously. But then he fucked up. Obviously. And he told them, I wish I could just go out there because I know that if I was able to go out there and like question people, I'd be able to find her. And so they were like, okay, cool. Let's arrange that. Like my dude, it's the mafia.

They make shit happen. That's their whole job. Your wish is their command. They literally were like, cool, we'll set that up then. Yeah. And they did. Yeah, of course they did. But not before Charles went home and called J. Edgar Hoover himself, like tried to get in touch with J. Edgar Hoover. Just called him up on the phone. Called the FBI. It was like, please help me. I need protection from the mafia. And they were like, yeah, we don't just do that. So, like, we'll come talk to you tomorrow. So they were sending someone. Hang tight, pal, will be there tomorrow. Literally. So they said that they were sending someone and he was like, whoof. Woo.

But then the mafia themselves showed up and they were like, let's go to Cali, buddy. Let's get it. They were like, we don't. We're not going to sleep on this. Yeah, like, we're bringing you out there. I know you have an appointment with the FBI tomorrow, but we got to go out there. I'm like, dude, they've been in your house. You don't think your fucking house has tapped?

Like, Jesus. Wow. So the dumb. They went out to California, but Charles was arrested in California, San Diego, to be specific, on August 28th. he was on the beach impersonating an FBI agent and questioning girls on the beach, obviously trying to pretend that he was trying to find Gretchen and Wendy so that these mafia guys wouldn't take care of him.

This is wild. It's insane. This story is bananas. It's bananas. I was going to say the same thing. So when he was brought to the police station, the police held him there for an hour and a half. And they asked tons of questions about Gretchen and Wendy because they're like, why are you on a beach pretending to be an FBI agent?

asking questions about these girls. Like, you got to answer some questions. Seems a little weird. But there wasn't enough to hold him on. And actually, while they were questioning him, they were notified by the police back in Tucson that he had already been talked to because he had already been questioned about this previously, because he's the boyfriend. But they were like, no, he's not a suspect.

Like, you can let him go. Man. Wild. So he was able to be like, oh, and things quieted down. These guys should always sneak out of these things. They always wiggle out of them. But not for long. No, they always end up getting caught.

But there's always those few times that you're like, he got out of it. Right. There's only nine lives, though, that I know of. So between September and October of 1965, Charles really kept that creepy asshole status on lock. He married a 15-year-old girl. Charles, get the fuck out of it. Married a 15-year-old girl named Diana. My goodness.

Now, Paul, who we had talked about earlier, he shot a guy in Reno. No, that guy. Not actually, but he did shoot a man in Tucson. Now, he had been out of prison at some point, and he confronted. Charles about the marriage being like, what the fuck are you doing married to a fucking 15 year old? And, but she had recently turned 15. So he's like, hey, you big gross. He was fresh out of the 14th.

I know I just shot a man in Tucson, but this is real dad. It's different. That was an accident, I guess. But he was like, you're 23. What the fuck are you doing married to this little girl? Yeah, you're gross. Apparently when Paul confronted him, Charles lost his shit, punched a hole through the wall, ran out of his own house in his underwear, and started jumping back in front.

forth over the fence screaming, God is going to punish me over and over and over again. Yeah, sounds like there's some unchecked stuff going on here. Yeah, I think there definitely was. And I think he was really at this point starting to just deteriorate from the inside-up. I would say so. So Paul reiterated that story to Richie, who by that point was essentially losing his mind with fear and guilt and probably about 472. other emotions. Yeah, which is why you don't see a recently dug grave from a murder victim and just be

like, oh, cool. Not only that. Don't do that. And maybe you won't be riddled with guilt and shit. Oh, no, not only that. So he saw that. And then he saw two dead bodies. Well, that's what I mean. Once you start, you're going to be led down a path that you're going to see some other shit. And then you're going to get involved with bad people who are going to scare the shit out of you for the rest of your life. So it's like, dude, just don't do it. Richie himself was fucking up because I said like 42 times that he was essentially stalking Kathy because he was so, he couldn't tell her, obviously, like why he was so scared. Oh my God.

So he was literally just being a stalker. He was just literally stalking her to the point where her family had him arrested for harassment. Good. That, my friends, is when shit starts to unravel. Oh, no. So Richie headed out to Ohio because the judge told him to skip town until his quote infatuation was over with. Oh, okay. That's how that works?

Get out of here. Yeah, just get out of. town. The 60s guys. Till you get right. Then get out of here. Then you can come back. I'm like, does he have to show like a paper that says like, I'm over Kathy? That's the thing. I don't get it. Is there like some big like x-ray machine that shows if his heart goes like thump thump when she's around? It's all good. Yeah. What? It's at a normal rate. So his grandmother lived in Columbus, Ohio and he was going to go stay with her for a while. So the entire time he was there, he wasn't able to contact Kathy because, you know, no contact orders. That whole thing. And he was still really concerned that

was going to be Charles' next target, especially now that he was gone. Because he said on one occasion, obviously we know who Charles is, but he also had like some reason to be scared, because Charles had said to him once that they should go dig up Gretchen's body and hang her by a noose on Kathy's porch to show Kathy what could happen to her if she didn't stay in line. Whoa, again, he suggested that they dig up the corpse of his own ex-girlfriend hang her on the porch of his friend's girlfriend to show her what could happen to her if she didn't stay in line. Is this Game of Thrones? What is this?

Like what? It gives me like weird Billy and Stu vibes also somehow. He makes me feel like he's part of the Lannisters and I'm not here for it. I don't even know who he's part of. This is a lot. I would say he's more a fucking, the gross one from Harry Potter. The gross one from Harry Potter? Yeah, and he, if you haven't seen Game of Thrones, skip over this.

But he gets his throat slip by Aria. Oh. What's his fucking name? Waldre Frey. Waldre Frey. He gives me Walder Frey vibes. He is a Waldre Frey type. Yeah, you're right.

Okay. But so that's why Richie was so concerned. So one night, Richie's just sitting there with G-Ma, and he blurts out everything to this poor elderly woman. Oh my goodness. Your poor grandmother. I mean everything. And she literally was like, I thought that he was just drunk because I heard beer can do

crazy shit to your mind. Yeah, doesn't do that crazy shit. G, Ma, you're so pure. So she was like, if everything you're telling me is true, you need to call the police. That was the night of November 8th, 1965, and he did indeed call the police, who didn't come until the next morning, which I was a little confused about, because I was like, you should probably go there, like stat. Oh, that, it's shocking. Like 10-4 over. Yeah, they've done such a great job so far. That's really, that's really nuts. This is a different police department. Yeah, honestly, at this time, I'm like, this is not out of character. What were you guys doing at the police department? They were just like listening to the radio.

Like, were they just vibing? They were just listening to the radio. Our job is to just vibe, okay? Just, we just vibe in the station. So they showed up the next day. And they took Richie with them to the station. He made a full confession to them about everything that happened. And he said he could take them to where Gretchen and Wendy's bodies were.

But that there might have also been a fourth girl and he didn't know where she was. But he said that everyone in town was saying that, had killed a fourth girl. And that was like a huge part of the reason why he had killed Gretchen. Because not only was she going to say that he had killed Aline, but this other girl as well. So they flew him out that night back to Tucson. And the very next morning, he led them to where he said Gretchen and Wendy would be. Sure enough, they were there. So now they just had to get Charles and Richie warned. Now they just had to get Charles. And Richie warned them that they would never get a confession out of him. Because he had told Richie, quote, if I'm ever caught, I'll never confess. That way they never know and the not knowing will torture them. What?

Like he said what we always assume. He literally had like, he just told us like, hey, insider tip from psycho crazy evil bastards. Yep. This is why we do that. Like guys, how many times have we said like they definitely do that just to like make the torture last forever? And he's like, yeah.

He's like, no, that's literally what I'm doing. He's like, I coined that term. Yeah, I did it for. long-ass term. First. Like, first like, whoa. He literally said that, according to Richie. That's wildly evil. So remember Mary Ray French? Yeah. Yeah, she was arrested on November 15th, 1965 in Belton, Texas. Good. Richie had said that she was lying about Aline's murder, and he knew for a fact that she witnessed the entire thing, that she hadn't been sitting in the car. I believe it.

I do too. But ultimately, she was charged with concealing and compounding a felony and being an accessory to Aline's murder. The Arizona Daily Star reported on December 21st, 1965, quote, displaying not a flicker of emotion, Mary Ray French, a slender 19-year-old Brunette, heard herself sentence yesterday to spend four to five years in state prison. She was out of prison within three years for good behavior. Stop. For good behavior and for working in prison. Stop.

Three years. That's a travesty. John Saunders pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. and he got life in prison. Good. He was 19 years old when he was sentenced, and at his sentencing, he told the judge, I dedicate the rest of my life to make myself a better person to live with. Cool, it won't matter.

The judge allowed him to have Christmas with his family, and he was sent to prison the very next day. Yeah, it doesn't matter. No. Nobody cares. I was just like, I think that's like kind of like, like, nobody cares if you're going to become a better person because you're a terrible person. It doesn't matter anymore because you've already taken a human life. You're in there forever.

Go fuck yourself. Bye. Richie only got one year of probation for his entire role in the case, probably because he was the one that led them to all this. Now, both Mary and John testified in court during Charles Schmid's trial. Charles had tried to say that it was Richie who was responsible for all this. Oh, shocked. That's what he was planning all along. And a lot of people in town actually believed that because Richie had all the inside knowledge about all of the murders.

Yeah, and Charles would never do that. No, never. And basically, that's what it was. Like, they were still under his fucking crazy-ass. spell. Now, luckily, the jury did not believe that, and Charles Schmid was sentenced to death for murdering Gretchen and Mary Fritz and got an additional 50 years to life when he pleaded guilty to the second-degree murder of a lean row. But then in 1972, temporarily, like this didn't last forever, the U.S. Supreme Court declared capital punishment was unconstitutional, and so his sentence

was commuted to life in prison. All right. Now, in June of 1697, I almost said, taking you way back. back in the witch trials. We got in a time machine. No, in June of 1967, Smitty claimed that his lawyer convinced him to plead guilty to Aline's murder, but that her body would show that he hadn't bludgeoned her, therefore maintaining his innocence. Probably not. So they exhumed her body, but sure enough, she had massive skull fractures. Yeah, of course. It was just a way for him to waste their time and a way for him probably to relive the murder. Because he was there, like he had to go with them to show them where the body was. That was definitely for his benefit. There's a famous picture that we'll post associated with the case.

And it's of his, like, giant handcuffed hands touching her skull. And he was telling them the entire time, be careful with the cranium. It's delicate. It can prove my innocence. What? Like, what part of you? I mean, I'm going to ask this question, but I already know the answer. Like, what part of you thought that this was going to work?

I don't. But then let me answer that myself. I know that he didn't think this was going to work. I guarantee you he was just fucking bored in prison and was like, how can I continue to torture everybody? around me. How can I go to the crime scene? How can I relive this whole thing? I would like to see her still. Yeah. That whole, oh my goodness. Do you see the picture? Yeah. Bananas. I'm like, why did they allow him to touch her? Yeah. The fact that they allowed him to touch her is such a slap in the

face to anyone who loved her and her. Like, that is outrageously disrespectful. You know the second he touched her. He was just remembering everything. Oh, for sure. Like, that's so fucked. For sure. So that's so fucked and we're not even done yet. While this motherfucker was in prison, he tried multiple times to escape. And on November 11th, 1972, while he was imprisoned in Tucson, he actually did escape with a good buddy that he made in prison named Raymond Hudgens. Raymond was in prison for three murders. Now, they ended up, they successfully escaped, and they ended up in a ranch near Temp and

took on four hostages. Jesus. So they just decided. to let those hostages go and split up. Yeah. And luckily they were captured within a matter of days. Keep that Google images up there because when he was found, Charles Schmidt was wearing a gigantic women's blonde wig. Yep, I see it. To the picture, you, I... You're just like, what is up there? There's really no describing it. You have to see it yourself. That's the thing. I don't know how to even describe it to you other than absolutely ridiculous. He's wild looking. Wilden.

Like truly wild. In 1974, he changed his name to Paul David Ashley because he thought that might help his chances of getting rehabilitated. No. Just like if I have a different name. And also like, why would you choose three? That just proves your psychotic. Yeah, that's a no.

Now, when not attempting to escape from prison, Charles was actually getting really into the world of poetry and he was actually good at it. He wrote out his own poems all the time. And he got so confident that he sent some of them to a professor at the University of Arizona. The professor was actually very impressed with Charles's work and said that he was talented and he would mark up his work and correct different things and then send it back to him. Come on, guys. So they just became like pen pals. Yeah, don't do that. Now, here is the, how do you say it again, PS de la resistance. The piece de resistance. That, thank you. I added

too many, like a lot. I like it. I like it. Now, on March 20th, 1975, Charles got into a very intense fight. with two other inmates and he was stabbed almost 50 times. Whoops. Oops. He got stabbed in one of his eyes. He got stabbed into the lung and also into his intestines. At the hospital, they had to remove his eye. They had to stitch up his lung and they also had to give him a tracheotomy. Did I say that right?

Yeah. Awesome. Now, after all they did, he still got a blood infection and he died 10 days later on March 30th, 1975. Man. Peace the fuck out. What a thing. Now his mother decided to have him buried in the prison cemetery because she was worried

that if he was buried on like their plot of land, that people would just defile his grave constantly. Yeah, for sure. And she and his father were left with all of the legal fees that he had accumulated. Oh. All of the legal fees. Wow. Yeah.

Now Charles's case got a lot of public attention, obviously. And people all over the world were talking about how just cold and evil. he was and how crazy this case was that so many teenagers came forward like I said and said that they knew all about it but never told their parents never told police because that's terrible they were under his spell man so I don't know if you've ever seen the movie smooth talk I've never seen no it was inspired by him uh it was also inspired by the short story that was originally inspired by the case called where are you going where have you been and that's by joyce carroll oats. Oh. So yeah. Look at that. That is the case of the Pied Piper of Tucson. That was such a ride.

I, this, I don't even have words anymore. Those poor girls. Seriously. This is one of the most interesting cases, though, that I think I've ever covered. It's just, it's the amount of just like loops and bends and boops and the mafia. You get the fact that the mafia just made a quick like came here. Just like not like an unnamed cameo in here. Like it's just like, whoa, all right. Then you get a prison escape. Special guest to the mafia. Like, oh, okay.

Cool. We'll credit you. And then the prison escape. Like, just all of it. I, and the wig, the wig. The wig really rounds it all out. Richie wrote a book. I a squealer.

I a squealer. So much to unpack. That's, guys, that was a lot. It was so much. Wow. Thank you for that. You're welcome. So, guys, we hope you keep.

listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so worried that any of this applies to you yeah ever just don't do anything of this he's gross bye