Morbid - Episode 145: Lori Vallow Part 2

Episode Date: June 7, 2020

What a story this is, guys. Lori Vallow's saga is still going on and we seem to be no closer to answers than where it all started. In Part 2 of this crazy tale, we meet her husband Chad, we hear about his shady past and we wonder where the hell her children Tylee and JJ could be. Why is it that people around this couple tend to die or disappear? Is it bad luck or is a death cult? The questions keep piling up while the answer pile stays thin. Hopefully we will be able to update this episode soon with some good news or at least some closure. Step into Lori Vallow's world on mayhem, but don't say we didn't warn you. Thanks to our sponsors! Best Fiends Best Fiends has thousands of levels already, with new levels, events, and characters added every month. It’s hours of fun right at your fingertips—and you can even play offline! With over 100 million downloads and tons of five-star reviews, Best Fiends is a must-play! Download Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That’s FRIENDS without the R – Best Fiends! Athena Club Stop using razors that underdeliver and switch to Athena Club! Sign up today and you’ll get 15% off your first order! Just go to Athenaclub.com and use promo code morbid. Stamps.com Right now, our listeners get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage AND a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in MORBID. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Whether you're running errands on your daily commute, or even at home, you can enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, the Audible app. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog. This includes the latest bestsellers and new releases. Plus get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, audible originals,

and more. If you've been wanting to form good habits, break bad ones, and improve motivation, atomic habits written and narrated by James Clear is a great lesson. It'll reshape your mindset on progress and success by helping you develop strategies to transform your habits. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days.

That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alaina and this last morbid, a whole big morbido get your speedo Actually, you can get your speedo right now because it is monsooning outside. You could catch a wave out there You literally could so if you guys hear some thunder some you know a wicked witch floating by the window If you're Dorothy calling for anti-m. Don't worry about it, it's just a thunderstorm happening right now.

Just a storm. Just a storm, just a new England storm. So, you know, lots of stuff going on in the world right now. Yeah, lots of stuff going on in the world, lots of stuff going on with us. We've made some business decisions that are really serious. Really serious business guys.

Just kidding. Yeah. We have decided that our mini episodes are actually going to just be another main episode. Because they already are anyways. And you know what? I've gotten pretty good at making main episodes. So here it is, folks. We're going to keep the mini theme song.

We're going to pretend there are many. You can't lose the mini theme song. Yeah, because it's, folks. We're gonna keep the mini theme song. We're gonna pretend there are many, you can't lose the mini theme song. Yeah, because it's too fun, but they're gonna be full-ass morbids. So we're gonna have two full episodes a week for you guys. Yeah. And we just kinda made that decision and what we were initially doing

for the month of June for Pride Month is we wanted to focus on cases that were affecting the LGBTQ plus community. So we are still going to do that because we think it's very important for love Pride Month so we don't want to just abandon that schedule. But now that we have two you know big episodes to work with a week, we get to fill that with anything we want. So we can still do what we've been doing with the mini episode, some to fill that with anything we want. So we can still do what we've been doing with the mini episode, some weird things that like kind of...

I'm scared. Yeah, don't have another place, but we're also going to fill those with just big-ass cases now. Yep. So that's fun. And what we've decided to do, because we think it's important now more than ever to get these cases out there and into your ear holes, is we are going to start focusing those second ones on victims that are people of color. So we are we've gotten a lot of feedback. We've gotten a lot of people

requesting cases the last week or two with all the protests going on and ever since the George Floyd murder. People have been like why don't you cover this one? Why don't you cover that one? We've been taking it all in. A lot of them we already had on our scheduled case load. So now we're just moving them up. Now we're going to move them up because it's more important now than ever to get these cases out there because people need to hear them. So we have a few that we know we're going to be doing in the next few episodes and we're going to be doing Tamla Horseford. Lovina Johnson, Kanika Jenkins, and DJ Henry. DJ Henry is actually from around our area.

I think it's important to get all these stories out. Exactly. So those are the ones that we have scheduled for the next few episodes. So if you guys have any other cases that you really want to hear us go into and dive into, let us know. We love to hear it. We will be doing listener stories and spooky roads in between there and all that fun stuff But yeah, we just want to let you know that those are coming. We're gonna be focusing on some

victims that are people of color so for sure and thanks so much for everybody's you know support with us being vocal about this Yeah, we we wanted to be vocal I think if you're staying silent right now. I'm just I don't agree with that personally That's the thing we thought it was important to speak at least to say that we are here, we're allies, we're trying, we're learning, we're gonna make mistakes, but we're gonna try to fix them. And I think it's important to speak up and to listen.

So we're trying to do that and you guys have an awesome and supportive of that. And everybody keep fighting. because justice is coming. Yes, it's coming. Yes, yes. Making a little small step. So it's important. We really are.

Keep the momentum going. There's too much going on right now that people have to listen. So keep it up. Justice is coming. We're going to fight for you. We're going to support you. Absolutely. We love everybody.

We love all our listeners. And this week we're going to be talking about another case where justice has not yet been served We are gonna wrap up with part two of Lori Valow. Yeah, we didn't want to we didn't want to wait to do part two because people have been like And you know today that I read that she likes to be called Lori Valow Daybell since she married Chad Daybell So I think it's even so great that we're just calling her Lori Debel. I love that. Because get the fuck out of here Lori.

Yeah, I don't care. Nobody cares what your last name is, because also she shouldn't be able to keep Valor anyway, but well, it just seems odd to just be tacking on married names here. Yeah, it's just too much. Too much lady. Yeah, get it together.

Swap one out for the other if you're going to do it. Well, so last week when we left off off Lori's brother Alex had just shot her a strange husband Charles. Oh that you know Casual time with what we left off with like I said he had claimed self-defense and although everyone's behavior seemed off There was nothing police really could do at the time that whole thing was strange because that was the one she had like a pool party She had a pool party that night. Yeah, and she didn't tell his kids like anything. They she was just like she was like Oh, sorry, but he's dead. Yeah, your dad's dead. My dad. Sorry. Not even my bad. Just Emmy will let you know. Yeah. Bye So then like I said Lori packed up the kids and she moves to Idaho so that she can be closer to Chad daybell Uh-oh So we didn't really can be closer to Chad Daybell.

Uh-oh. So we didn't really talk at all about Chad Daybell last week, so guess who we're about to talk about? We gonna talk about Chad. We gonna talk about him. So Chad is a well-known LDS author. He has actually written more than 25 books. Wow. So that's a lot of books to be written.

Oh, shit. And a lot of them are fiction. Wow, I'm actually, that's crazy. Well, his brain is like wild and so I understand how he could write that many books. Your brain is like only like diet wild and like we talked about with Christine. Crystal Wilden. So yeah, 25 books. Wow. Yeah. According to this woman named Suzanne Freeman, Chad was a pretty normal guy in her opinion. His faith and his ideas all aligned with the teachings of the Church of the Jesus Christ of Lauderdale Saints. Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll end with a church of that. And she actually worked on a couple books with

him herself. Most of the books, like I said, were fiction, but he did work on these books and surrounded himself with people who had experiences where they died, claimed to have seen the other side, and came back to tell of their experience. That should always wild. Bunkers. Wild. I don't know if I've ever known anybody that happened to.

I don't think I've ever known anyone personally, but I've definitely heard of that happening. And some of them you're like, whoa. Yeah, some of them are like wild experiences. Is that really what's happening over there? Like, whoa. Well, let's talk about what Chad experienced. Oh, I bet Chad had an experience. He did. He had two actually. Of course he did. So he claims that when he was 17 years old, he was cliff jumping in California with some of his friends and he had this like wild near death experience Where he crossed over into another dimension and that he realized that this life we're living is not the only one happening all like There's other lives happening all around us all the time. Okay. I mean like that's I can get down with that

Yeah, that's almost Elon Musky a little bit. Well, almost like a simulation kind of thing, which I like, I can't totally say that does it. Yeah, like a parallel universe happening. Yeah, I don't hate it. Have you ever seen the memes that are like, I hope parallel universe me is doing good right now. Yes, I hope paradise.

And honestly, right now I think everybody's like, I hope parallel universe me is using paradise. I hope it is paradise. I hope it't know. I just don't know. I don't know if it's paradise. I don't know if it's paradise. Okay, well, yeah. Then he had another experience when he was 20. This time he was in California.

He was hit with a super intense wave. And while this happened, he was being like thrown around in the water. It was like, I guess, drowning. I don't know if he was drowning. It was just, it just said, he was being like barrel rolled probably. Yeah, basically. And he said that while this was all happening, his spirit

came into contact with his dead grandfather. Oh. And he said his grandfather was able to show him all these things that were going to happen to him and throughout his life like in the future. Wow. He showed him his future wife. He showed him future kids,

like all these different things that were gonna happen. I bet his grandpa didn't tell him that he was gonna marry a murderer and potentially become one himself. Yeah. Didn't seem like grandpa said anything about that, but if he did, it seems like Chad was like, well, well, let's get on with my life.

Let's do it. He's like, hope parallel universe me isn't doing that. Oh my. Yeah. Also, like Chad is just like base jumping and like surfing as well. He's well-denoued. He also, I didn't look too further into this,

but him and his like brothers or like siblings used to grieve dig. Like they would dig graves to make extra money. He's an interesting fucker. Yeah, he truly is. That's really interesting. Well, he claims that after Gramps showed him everything that he came out with a veil where this like heavenly world stays open and Chad can live among both worlds. Oh, okay. So that's like how they say like, all Hallows Eve is when like the veil

between all those is thinnest. So that's why like spirits get across. Okay. So it's like, all Hallows Eve is when like the veil between all those is thinnest, so that's why like spirits get across. So okay. So it's like it kind of reminds me of like Donnie Darko, but that's like a little different because like time draw. The veil, the veil between world's is thin. Yeah. So he was, he was able to live among both. That's pretty cool. So yeah, okay. Suzanne, that when we were talking about earlier, she says all of a sudden around 2014, Chad started talking about new views and opinions that didn't align with the church,

and ultimately he decided to leave the Spring Book Company where he was president, and he said that he wanted to leave so that he could prepare for the quote, call out, which is the end of times. Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash, and we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know, when you would come home from high school, and it was only a few hours until that TV show,

everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Join us. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episode.

Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, woooow! What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill?

I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valow, aka Mommy Doomstays Mot stays motives and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine.

Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. There's always really ominous names for these things, like the rapture to me. When I heard that word for the first time, I was like, the branding on this is rapture. Just reminds me of dinosaurs because of raptors. And as soon as you say rapture, I'm like, oh, shit.

Like, yeah, you hear the violin in the back of your head. PR people for these like end of the world names. God's PR team. Great. Because the rapture and I'm like, the call out. That I just picture goby and like, you ain't it? Like he's calling you out. Well, that's the call out.

Yeah. It's a lot. Oh, no. Well, it seems that after her child left the book company, he began to travel more and he started like relaying his teaching about the end of times. He was going to all these events and that's actually how he became connected with Lori in the first place. I'm not shocked. So, Lori's best friend was there's two melodies in this story. We're going to get to another one later, but this is

And there's two melodies in this story. We're going to get to another one later. But this is Melanie Gibbs. Okay. So Melanie Gibbs met Chad first at a, quote, religious conference where he talked about the veil, his visions, and all these past lives that he had lived. Cool. Melanie talked to him after the event, and then she introduced Chad and Lori around 2018. Okay. the event and then she introduced Chad and Laurie around 2018. Okay, but Laurie knew who

Chad was before that because she was like pretty obsessed with all his books that he had written. She had read basically all of them and was like super into this today. It's misery. Yes, it literally is. You're right. I was trying to think of what movie that was. Yeah, your biggest fan. Well, she is. Wow. So it ends a little differently, but you know, but like only slightly Yeah, but honestly, so eventually over time they they really hit it off and then over time they became closer and closer In fact, they went on a podcast together. Oh shit. Not ours. No, not ours. This one was no. No. Thank you. This one was called Time to Warrior up That's a mouthful of a podcast. I mean who I feel like we're two years into here I can give a little feedback of what works and what doesn't you're like twisting your handle bar mustache like that ain't it

It's the hollow. That's a large large name Hey, I'm Lena. I'm Ash and this is time to Warrior Up. It's hard to say. Yeah, it is. It doesn't have to be a large one. Well, I mean, who knows? Maybe they're killing it. This podcast was like a podcast put out by preparing a people,

which is like an end of time's prep group, preparing a people, which is also hard to say. Preparing a people. Preparing a people. Preparing a people. But so yeah, then they were on that podcast with some other preppers. Oh, all the piece. Talking about the end of the world

and other casual things like that, you know. And I'm pissed because unfortunately, you can't listen to this episode anymore because preparing up people took down time to worry up. Oh, okay. It's really hard to say all those things They take it all that like the whole thing down and just the episode with Laurie and Chad Good question you should look for the probably took it maybe they took it down just because they're probably murderers Yeah, you know probably and they were like this hurts this harsh is our mellow So they're like that didn't age well. No.

So they talked about the end of the world. Liadi,adi,adi,adi, you can't listen to it anymore. But Melanie says that Chad and Laurie were getting closer and closer quicker and quicker. They bonded over all the past life experiences that they had because Chad told Laurie that he had 31 past lives. Wow, that's a lot of baggage., which how do you keep track of all your lives? That's so much baggage. All your lives, all your lives.

Like, that's a lot, it's a lot. And she was pretty impressed by that because she herself only had 21 lives. Oh, so she was like, I am a rookie here. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not up in the life game. I'm newborn baby if you will the game of life The game of lives the exact date's a little different than the game of life sure is well Chad and Lori knew that in previous lives they'd been together. Oh, of course. I say that to John all the time. Oh, do you? I don't oh, I was like, that's kind of cute. Like in a jockey way. That would be really sweet though, if I was like in a nothing life. I mean, I totally would find each other. You totally would. We totally would. I believe in like past lives, but I think this is a stretch. I like the kind of spooky past lives that lives thing where

like a kid will be like that time when I was on the Titanic. Yeah. Like those are the things that I love. Right. These get a little little much for me, but I'm on the Titanic. Yes, yes. Like those are the things that I love. These get a little, little much for me, but I'm willing to listen. It's weird that to me, like the Titanic thing doesn't seem that far-fetched, but this does. Right. It's on the same parallel. Because I'm here, I remember we did a listener story

that somebody's child was like, and I'm like, when I was on the Titanic, I believe that. I was like, that kid was on the Titanic. Right. And then I hear this and I'm like, this guy's nuts. This guy's nuts. So, it is weird that we're like, accepting of that. I was like, that kid was on the Titanic. Right. And then I hear this and I'm like, this guy's not. This guy's not.

It is weird that we're like accepting of that. It's because it's not spooky. Yeah, it's not creepy at all. It's just wild. So they knew in previous lives that they'd been together. Melanie said this is where it gets fucked up. That Chad actually set up a portal in Lori's closet so that they could communicate with the other side together.

Fuck yeah. I want to know the step-by-step, I want the IKEA step-by-step booklet on how to set up a portal. Did they use a YouTube video? Because if you can set up a portal together, I think you're gonna stay together forever. Yeah. I mean, the true test is like building an IKEA bed. I was gonna say, I I thought I thought that was it But now it's a portal, but if you can build a portal together. I mean no stopping you. I mean no stopping me and Annie

You're gonna try it in our new closet. I'm gonna give it a shot. Yeah, I've tried to throw all the stuff that he doesn't want Every word. I'm talking about a portal It's perfect. I love it Yep, so they did that together, which is a true act of love. Sure, I guess. And then Lori had a separate phone where she communicated with Chad. Because remember, Lori's still married. Oh, shit, I totally forgot about that.

At the point that they had met. Yeah, okay. And also, Chad is married. Oh, shady, shady. Can you imagine if you found out John was setting up portals and other people's closets? I see piss. I would just be fucking confused first of all, but shit. I would be real mad. I'd be not okay. Because that's a truly intimate experience and that would bother me. It is truly intimate. Of course it is. Like they weren't sleeping together, but they were building portals. I'd be like, that's almost worse.

They were probably sleeping together. Let's be real. No, they definitely weren't. Yeah. Well, a lot of people remember thinking that Chad and his wife, Tammy, had a beautiful relationship. They had been together like a super ass long time. Oh, poor Tammy. I know. Yeah, just wait.

She was a librarian. And they had five children together. She helped him write a lot of the books that he wrote. And some of them, they even wrote together. Like some of them are like, Tammy and Chad Daybell. Fuck that guy. They were together for 29 years.

Dude, 29, but we're gonna get into that a little bit later. So now we're gonna go back to Lori packing up the kids and moving to Idaho. A few weeks before they just up and moved, Kay and Larry were able to FaceTime JJ. They said it was like a super fast call and it seemed like he was being coached. That makes me upset. Well, and he's just like this little nugget. He really is facing you like I want to keep you and protect you and love you and anytime there's kids being coached in these

scenarios, I'm like that just like fucks me up because like manipulating a child, like that like really bad to me. And remember, this is an autistic child. Yeah, like that's, he's like high energy, like he's a little adorable nugget. Oh, that makes me sad. So he kept like looking up past the call

and then suddenly he was like, I have to go, like, bye. Oh. So it was, they said it was literally like a 35 second FaceTime. That makes me sad. So then they often moved to Idaho into the townhouse and guess who moves with them? Huh. Oh.

Alex, the brother. Oh, oh. I knew you were going to guess Chad, but remember he already was going to guess Chad. He already lived in Idaho. That's why they're not going. Yeah, good call. So Alex moves with them and he ends up living right near them

With the kids and he's with them all the time and this is just like her brother This is and she had other brothers like this is not her only brother, but they seemed very close Friends yeah, I don't know about that So they all move they're hanging out with each other all the time. And this is where things are gonna really start to boil over here. It's time to turn your fucking pot down. It's gonna help her swelter in here. No one is really sure of the last of the last sighting of Tiley.

There's like different reports of the last sighting. But the last known picture of her was taken on September 8th at Yellowstone National Park. Oh yeah, I've seen this one. It's a really cute like family picture. It's her Lori and JJ and I think you can see a glilux in the corner, but I don't remember. So yeah, that's the last known picture of her. And Larry and Kay kept reaching out in hopes that they could talk to JJ again and have it last more than 35 seconds, but they were constantly, constantly ignored. And the last time anyone saw JJ was on September 17th.

So that's like one, two weeks after the last sighting of Tyler or the last picture. He, and you can see the video and just knowing that that's the last time anybody saw him, it's really haunting to see. He's playing in the front yard of Laurie's townhouse with another kid and they're just running around like not a kid. They're a little seven year old.

Yeah. He doesn't know what his mom is up to, you know, crazy person. So. So. Leave kids out of it, man. That's the thing. Go be fucked up on your own. Right.

No one cares. Right. Don't bring kids into it. Well, and especially this isn't even like he is her kid because she adopted it. I'm not saying that. But like if you don't want to take care of a kid, don't adopt a kid. Well, that's a thing. Don't take on a kid if you're not ready to. Exactly. I will say. Do not adopt a child if you are not ready to adopt a child. That's just that's just that's just facts man. So that's the last time anybody saw JJ September 17th and then on September 24th Lori called JJ school to unenroll him. Her reason was that she claimed that she was going to start homeschooling him and she was already homeschooling tiley. So there were this is going on to tiley now. There were texts sent from tiley's phone to friends and actually Venmo transactions to that started to seem suspicious. Yeah. It seemed like, and actually her brother Cole B said that he was trying to get into

contact with tiley and she would text him back like super busy, like can't talk right now. And it didn't seem like she was writing it. Yeah, because you always know when, especially if it's your sibling, you know how they text. You'll be like, are you mad at me if I don't use like 87x for my surprise? Yeah, because that's just how I text. Exactly, so I'm like, what? You can tell, and like I can tell how you text.

Like you can tell how your friends text. Yeah, so in her friends were saying like, one text said, LUV YA, and so like, love ya. And it was like, tiley didn't write like so like love ya and it was like tiley didn't write like that yeah so they were like mmm that's weird and another weird thing to point out is that Colby the brother says that whenever he was trying to get into contact with tiley and asking Lori about her, Lori would go she's super busy

oh so she's saying it to him and she's writing it from time to phone. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely what's happening. Right. The Venmo transactions can be explained because Lori wasn't like down with technology, obviously based on how she texts. And she would often use Ty Lee's Venmo account to send money to Colby. Oh, okay. So those were weird at first, but then they were explained to us now. Right. So the Venmo transactions get explained, but the texting does not, which I don't know, it stresses me out. So now, Lori, we're gonna go to Lori's family back in Arizona. There's like so many players in this story that I know. So I'm trying to take you on the way. No, I'm following. Good. OK, so Lori's family back in Arizona was also going through a strange time.

Lori's niece Melanie, so another Melanie, this one is Melanie Poloski, was going through a divorce and a custody battle, again, with her four kids and her then husband Brandon Bourdume, or Bourdume. On October 2nd, a sniper shot at Brandon's car from a Jeep and shattered the window. Luckily, Brandon didn't get hurt, but his window was completely shattered.

That's strange. And he did get a look at the Jeep, which was weird, and we'll get to that in a second. So that, actually, I'll tell you right now, that Jeep belonged to Charles Valet. What? So it's like, who was in that Jeep? Who was in that?

Exactly. Huh, right. So while all this is going down, Melanie herself packs up her kids and moves from Arizona to Idaho. Oh. And guess where she moves right into, right next door to Laurie. I was gonna say, I'm guessing,

with an arm's reach of Laurie Valo. Literally right next door. The entire time she was living there, she never saw the children. Not once. Yeah, they weren't there anymore. And she says she did think of it sometimes, that it was strange.

Oh, you did? I did think of, what are they are their cousins, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's her niece. Yeah. Their cousins. Yeah. Yeah. Like second cousins or something like that. Some weird relationship. I don't know. They're related. And she should probably be a little more concerned. She was. But she said that Lori always had an excuse about where the kids were. Tiley, she said, was super independent. and she was always kind of like out with her friends. Remember, she was 17, so that's a little explainable. But like, where's your seven-year-old?

Yeah, it's like your seven-year-old doesn't play outside. Right, exactly. Or activities, nothing. Where's his stuff, like, in the house. Where is he in the house? And she would say that JJ was at his friend's house or something like she'd make up another excuse. And eventually she changed the story to say that the kids were staying with a friend because K, remember K is Charles's sister. And JJ's grandma. K was causing trouble and Lori wanted to keep the kids out of it. So that was her excuse for why her kids weren't around.

out of it. So that was her excuse for why her kids weren't around. You murdered them. You murdered them. You're a murderer. So that happens. The sniper happens in October. The kids start, the kids are gone at this point. Yeah. And then Chad's then wife Tammy has a strange event happened to her in early October. Now I had never heard about this on the news yet. I had just heard about her passing away. But before she passed away, she updated her Facebook status 10 days before. And she said, this is the direct Facebook status, okay neighbors. Something really weird just happened, and I want you to know so that you can watch out. I had gotten home and parked in our front driveway. As I was getting stuff out of the back seat, a guy wearing a ski mask was suddenly standing by the back of my car with a paintball gun. He shot at

me several times, although I don't think it was loaded. I yelled for Chad and he ran off around the back of my house. I have no idea what the motive was and he never spoke. Even after I asked him several times what he thought he was doing, I was about to smack him with my freezer meats. She should have done that. For from enrichment tonight, when I decided to yell for Chad instead, which I had to leave that part in there because yes, I love you. I love to smack him with your freezer meats. It was her freezer meals. I thought that was so funny. That's amazing. But what the fuck? So like this kind of weird shit doesn't just happen around one person. Right.

If you know Lori and Chad, like all this weird stuff that's gonna happen to you. Right. So, like I said, 10 days after she wrote that Facebook status, Tammy Debel, passed away. She was found dead in her bed at age 49. She had no underlying health conditions, and the family said no to an autopsy. What the fuck? Which is weird. You want to hear something?

49-year-old healthy woman you didn't get an autopsy? Right. That's insane. They just said like she died of natural causes. Oh my god. It's like that wouldn't fear you. You don't know that. Like, you know how much that would infuriate me to see that consent form and have them say no. I'd be like, no.

Because what? That would be like if like I'm trying to think of a 49 year old woman that I know, but what? Yeah. It's just somebody getting sent. That's just young. Another weird thing. Chad and Laurie get married two weeks after Tammy died. Wow.

You know what though? Get's weirder. How? Because police have now found out that someone ordered a pair of wedding rings using Charles Valos Amazon account and do you want to know when those wedding rings were purchased? 17 days before Tammy died. How? How? How are we not putting these puzzle pieces together and being like quite clearly she was murdered. Right. Well now we are, don't worry. I think. Because so yeah, they used, first of all, you're using Charles Valos

Amazon account to order your wedding ring for you and your husband who's already married and his wife isn't dead yet. Yeah, that's fine. Like okay, that seems totally weird at all. The wedding rings are the exact rings and you can tell that they use them in the ceremony because you can see the pictures of them and they're They're really distinct. They're like blue bands with like gemstones throughout them. I personally I think they're ugly as fuck I'm not gonna lie that sound painless. Yeah So my I'm like how did you know that your wife was gonna die? 17 days before she died if she just died of natural causes. I should avoid her because you murdered her.

Well, on November 27th, nope excuse me, November 26th, K calls the police because she still hasn't heard or seen JJ and that strange FaceTime call like she kept playing it over her mind and she's like something's up. Why haven't I heard from my grandson like what's going on? That's his grandma. She knows right and that's his grandma who took care of him for a while like she knows a newborn Yeah, when you have someone as a newborn, it's like you know them right you know their habits You know who they are you know that when they're alarmed and you can feel even as far away You know what she was a mom. Let's just she was a mom really for sure and you know when something's wrong with your family no matter as far away, you know what, she was a mom. Let's just, she was a mom really. For sure.

And you know when something's wrong with your dad. And you're like, no matter how far away they are. Mm-hmm. So I say that like I have kids. You're like, I know. I'm like, I'm telling you. Well, yeah. So she calls the police to do a welfare check.

So they go out to Lori's home to check in on JJ. And in the front yard, who else do they've run into other than fucking Alex Cox? Oh, that's weird. And he tells them that JJ's with his grandparents. And the police are like, That's real weird because the grandparents are the ones that wanted to do this welfare check. So what the fuck are you talking about?

Incorrect answer. You want to try again? You've crushed it incorrect key. Retrieve? So yeah, they go in and they talk to Lori and she tells them that the kids are in Arizona staying with her friend. But they go check in. I don't know who that friend was, but they go check in on that and it turns out obviously

they're not there. Of course not. And I remember seeing all this on the news. Like I remember they were like, oh, like we're going to check on this house in Arizona with the friend and then they never released to it was, but they were like, no, they're not there. Yeah. They're like going on like a man hunt. Like she's sending them everywhere for these kids

and I just don't think. Oh, it's awful. We're gonna find them. No, as soon as a mom or somebody in that kind of position is saying, oh no, my kids are here. Oh no, my kids are there. Oh no, I was wrong, they're here. They murdered them.

Yeah, I'm nervous. I'm nervous. That's just like, we've seen it in a million cases. And then with this woman too, like especially you're like the shit that she was like believing and getting into. It's like, okay. Yeah. So the next day they come back with a search warrant, but guess who has up and run to Hawaii yet again? I'm going to go with Lori Vallow and Chad. Oh, and Chad, I remember they're newlyweds. They're newlyweds. And this is just for me, this seals the deal.

They were seen on security before they ran away to Hawaii, dropping off some items that belong to the kids at a storage facility. I remember seeing that CCTV footage. And I remember seeing, because this is so recent, so it's like, I remember watching this on the news. And I remember sitting there being like, those kids are dead. 100%. Like they're putting things in storage.

It's just a matter of where they are. And when they ran off to Hawaii for vacation, everybody was like, how do we not, like that is very clearly somebody who murdered their children. Very clearly, very clearly. So they, like you said, were seen on security before they left for Hawaii you can see it on CCTV and then in Hawaii they get this condo together after assuring

the landlord that they had no pets and no children that we're gonna live with them. Come on! And then the the woman who sold them the house like the landlord I think they were renting from her. She found out that Chad had recently lost his wife, so she messaged him. And she was like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear. She just sent him a sweet message. And he wrote back this very cold message that was like, when I woke up, Tammy had a peaceful look on her face and she had clearly died hours before but she's in a better

place now and I think she helped me and Lori come together. You know what? I doubt that. Yeah, I highly doubt that. I doubt that. I can tell you right now if I was on my way out I would not be helping John shack up with some crazy lady. No, that would not be my priority. So I'm gonna go with a no. When I die, I'm not one of those people. That's like, I hope that you find love again. You won't. Good luck. You won't. So, because I'm a ruin it from the other side. Haunt you, O.S. What is Chrissy Teigen had the best thing?

When she said, she always puts a piece of paper in John Legend's pocket that says, what is John did it or something like that? Or she puts one in her pocket that said, John did it. Oh my god. So that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. She always puts a piece of paper in John Legend's pocket that says What is John did it or something like that? Or she puts one in her pocket that said John did it. Oh my god. So that if she ever dies They'll have to arrest him for murder

What did she said so he'll never get remarried? That is the funniest should I've ever heard let me for any of you write that down super pissed and be like that's awful It's funny. Yeah, Chrissy Teigen is fucking hilarious. I love Chrissy Teigen. I know that's a controversial view because a lot of people don't like her, but I don't get why. I don't either.

We love her. We're pro Chrissy Teigen on the show. What happened? I don't know. All right, well, yeah, she wanted me to find love. And I was like, I don't think so. So that's ridiculous. This whole story, I'm like, you try to make it

line up in your head and you're like, this doesn't make sense. They're relying on a lot of whoo here. A lot of whoo. Now it gets fucking crazy. Are you ready? No. Be either. On November 29th, Alex Cox gets married to this woman named Zulema. and I might be saying that wrong, I'm sorry. Zulima pastines. Okay. In Vegas. Okay. Now according to the minister, this was a super quick ceremony.

It literally lasted less than 10 minutes. A Vegas. And he said that they were strictly business. They just wanted to get married. It was a very cold ceremony. They wanted in and they wanted out. And you think with like a Vegas wedding, it's like very spur of the moment. So they're going to be all in love all over each other. And like maybe ship face. Yeah. But like

this was weird. And I mean, this does happen. So I don't want to read too much into it. But because this case is so bizarre, I think it makes you question it. Alex took his wife's last name. Oh, which I mean,, it happens. Oh yeah, for sure. But it is weird in this case, like, you're like, I wonder why? It's in this case, because normally it's like, wow, how progressive. Right, that's nice.

Right, but in this case, along with everything else, you're like, now it turns suspect. It seems so there's a reason. Yeah, right. It doesn't seem like he's just being progressive. Right, exactly. Although he did spend time in jail, so I wonder if he wanted to put a different name

on like job things. Yeah, maybe he just wanted to raise that identity kind of thing. I guess that could explain it. Well, so then you're never gonna find out about why that happened because we can't ask Alex anymore because he died on December 12th in his wife's home in Arizona.

What the fuck? So he's living in Idaho and then they get married in Vegas and then they go back to Arizona. And then I think it's like 12, 10 days later, something like that. He just dies. What? So according to Zalema, she got a call to check on Alex from Laurie. So Laurie called him as like, check on Alex. I talked to him earlier today and he's having a hard time breathing. And she was like, overall, it seems like he doesn't feel good and he doesn't sound good. So Zalema calls her son,

who was home with Alex at the time, and she's like, can you check in on him? So her son ends up calling the police because he walks into the bathroom and he finds Alex passed out on the floor. Huh. So in autopsy, recently it was revealed and it does say that he died of natural causes, but his death is still under investigation. Wow, that's weird. Weird. That one's weird. Because he's like a pretty young guy too. It's like, you know, just, I don't know. Like, he seemed like he was, like, fit enough. Yeah, and it's strange. It's just weird that all these people are dying. That's the thing.

It's like, if this was happening, like, in an isolated incident, it's like, yeah, young, healthy people can just straight up die. But it happened. All of them related to each other. All of this together is like, to chat in the morning. It's just so weird. And I remember when it came, because it didn't come out at first

that the brother was dead and his ex-wife was dead and not ex-wife-wife. And I remember them saying it and they flash to their faces in the courtroom and they both just look like, oh fuck. Like, oh shit. Like this is, this is not. Catching out. Okay, so now we're gonna go back to Melanie Laurie's niece. Okay.

She too was married the same weekend as Alex in a Vegas ceremony. Wow, which is weird. Yeah. She had met Ian Poloski, I think is how you say it, on a dating app called Mutual, which fun fact that was actually developed by BYU graduates.

Oh, okay, yeah. Do you remember Lori wanted to go there? Yep. So it's basically a dating app for people within the LDS church to meet people who are among their faith, who have some interest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This plenty of those.

So Ian and Melanie date for two weeks before they get married. World wind. World wind. And like, I'm not gonna say much about that, but that's a little bit. We'll just let it hang in the air for a while. You can pick it if you want to.

Yeah, well she has four kids living with her. I, you might wanna get to do somebody a little bit better. I'm going to go ahead and judge that. Okay, quick. Yeah, because I wanted to all say I didn't feel like people yelling at me, but like no, if you, I'm sorry, if you have four kids and you meet someone and marry them after two weeks, that's irresponsible as fuck. Like you could find out some serious shit.

You do not know someone in two weeks, but you know what? She was already involved in shady shit. So I think this is on him because it's like you did the same thing, dude. Yeah, he has kids. He's two kids, but we're gonna find out a little bit about that. Because if it's just you and you want to do that whirlwind, you know, Mary. So I mean, that's not like I don't think it's the safest thing to do because I don't think you're only gonna harm yourself and go ahead. But all means, but you have kids, you got responsibilities, man. Well, Ann was divorced and he had been married to a woman named Natalie, who sounds like a bad bitch. Natalie. Natalie.

They had two kids. So when Natalie finds out that Ann is involved with this chaotic and possibly murderous family, she calls him and she's like, yeah, I know all about Lori and Chad and their missing kids and her brother. I know everything. And I'm going to the police tomorrow. Like, yes, I don't want my kids around that family. Good job. Natalie, not a day. But Ian decides to go with her. Huh, which is weird. Like, I don't, I don't understand. I could feel so eventually he ends up getting connected with the FBI and the FBI asks him to wear a wire and he's like yeah

I'll do it like so he wears this wire while he's around Melanie and they're like just try to get anything out of her Like bring up the kids bring up anything homegirl doesn't say anything and Then he fucking admits to her that he was wired. That's wearing a wire rule number one. She's not inmate her way or a wire. Never just come out and say that you're wearing a wire. Like, hua? Have you ever seen that video where the little girl's

trying to read? And it's like hua? That's what it's like. What? So she's fine with it. Like she's, I guess she was pretty chill about it because they're still married, like right currently, as far as I know. Yeah, I mean, speed bump, I guess. But then they find this document on Ian's computer, like somehow his ex-wife obtained his computer and they find this document on Ian's computer, like somehow his ex-wife obtained his computer and they find this document.

She's killing it. Yeah, I love it. I love that. I love it. I love it. So in this document it says that Melanie was told by Alex and Laurie that her husband before, remember the one that almost got sniped. They told her that he needed to die. Whoa. This document also stated that Melanie had been told by Lori and Chad that the kids,

Tiley and JJ, were possessed by zombies and they needed to be taken care of. This took a very sharp turn into like walking dead. Mm-hmm. And I don't know how to how to deal with it. I also don't understand like what because their form of zombies just sounds like possession by evil spirits. So it's like demons or for me it sounds like demons. But they're calling it a zombie. I think it's big it's like the whole end of time's thing. Okay. Because I'm like zombies. That doesn't really make sense to me because it's like the whole end of time's thing. Okay. Because I'm like zombies. That doesn't really make sense to me.

Because it's like if they're possessed by zombies and they themselves are zombies. Right. But, and you would know that. None of this makes sense. So, I guess we'll just add to the list. We're trying to put logic to a lot of woof. Right.

Exactly. Okay. So people know that Alex Fullheartedly believed in everything Lori told him, and that he was going to do anything to protect her, and he was also like a very involved man in his faith, so he wanted to end up in heaven. Yeah, so if Laurie told him that the kids were zombies, he would have taken care of it, plain and simple, because he wanted to be in Laurie's good graces and God's good graces. That's really scary. Yeah. To me personally, it sounds like he's a very mentally ill man. It really does. And she took advantage of that.

Honestly, it truly does. Like when you put Leia down like that, it truly does to me sounds like he needed a lot of help. Right, and she wasn't getting it. And he realized that he was almost like an underdog. And she used him. And then personally, I think she somehow figured out a way to get rid of him because I don't know if maybe he was getting sloppy or she was afraid he was going to talk or what was the deal. Because if he was mentally ill, then he

was unpredictable probably. And not somebody that's you can trust to hold on to that information, right? To hold it close to the chest exactly so She told him that the kids were zombies probably and then she also said the same thing with Brandon So I think that it was Alex Who was the sniper yep? I was thinking that too and I think Alex was the guy behind Tammy's car that day Yeah, because who well who the fuck else would that Alex was right guy behind Tammy's car that day. Yeah.

Because who the fuck else would that be? And Alex was right there. Alex lives right there. In Idaho. Yeah. In fuckin' Idaho. In fuckin' Idaho. Yeah, it's perfect.

So I don't know. I don't, it stresses me out. I think she was using his loyalty and devotion to her. Yeah, for her own. Yeah, like she was using him as like a killing machine. Right. It kind of sounds like. Right. Wow. And I know obviously like to be together, they had to get rid of Tammy. But it's like, first of all, I'm so confused about how they did it. Like I just, that's crazy to me. But it's like suffocation, maybe.

Maybe that's hard to do. Suffocations can be tough to that's true. That's a good point or poisoning of some sort if you did it slowly I wonder but I wonder like why they really felt like they needed to get rid of her I wonder if they just thought they did or if she was catching on to the Yeah Because just the fact that they were already buying wedding rings like before her death That's like you're definitely planning this so she they could have been like Slowly poisoning her doing something maybe maybe it may well they didn't want the autopsy. So maybe something is going to come out with that. Yeah, there you go. Okay. Well, almost done.

In January, the FBI searched Chad and Tammy's old home where they left they left with computers, cell phones, journals, and a ton of other stuff. Tammy's body was exhumed in December and the toxicology report hasn't been released yet. So as far as I'm concerned, some things on that fucking report. Oh, I got to see it. Chad and Laurie are both under investigation for conspiracy, attempted murder, and murder in relations to Tammy's death. But they haven't been charged yet. They're just under investigation. They're waiting for that. That smoke and gun. Exactly.

Lori, though, was arrested on February 20th in Hawaii because she failed to meet the deadline for, she was supposed to tell the court where the fucking kids were. She had a death line of producing the kids and she obviously didn't do that because they're dead. So awful. So her charges are two counts of felony child desertion, resisting her obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, and contempt of court.

So she's fucked. Yeah. She was extradited from Hawaii back to Idaho in March, and her bail originally was at five million dollars. Oh shit. It did get lowered to one million. Yeah. She has been trying to get that lowered so that because remember she won 17,000 dollars or she did. She does have the means to get out of jail. Pat say Jack gave her some money. I'm saying I bet he regrets that decision. I mean it wasn't really

as well. I feel like it's okay Pat. It's okay. I love you. You didn't need it. Thank you for keeping me company all this years, but I was homesick. But so the judge won't lower her bail, thankfully. Good. Because she and she right now is using like coronavirus as a excuse to get out of jail. And her lawyers are saying that they're not able to have like conversations with her, like the appropriate conversations and like the contact that they need to have with her. Well, you know what? Maybe don't kill your children right before

a national global pandemic. Rule of thumb. Okay. Oh, that's no one else's fault. Exactly. Chad, I don't understand how the fuck this motherfucker is still not facing any charges. I'm shook He isn't facing any charges right now and he refuses to comment on the whereabouts of the kids

Now Melanie remember Melanie the niece her ex Brad said that this is a cult where people are being killed off like flies And that Melanie knows where those kids are. He said let's get Melanie Well, she won't fucking say shit. Fuck you, Melanie. Her home, though, has been searched, but she's not cooperating with law enforcement. Of course she's not. And then Lori's attorneys and lawyers and stuff

went against Brad and said that he's addicted to porn and he's involved in homosexual affairs, which I'm like, can we just say affairs? Like does it matter if he likes dudes or not? It's like, okay. So you're telling me that like he likes to jack it to porn. Right. And then he's gay.

Like maybe or by. Okay. Right. Does that mean he's not credible? That discredits him and so that? No, of course not. And then I think they said he was like violent against Melanie as well.

Like he watches violent porn, they're trying to say, they're just trying to discredit him as a witness. Of course. Of course. Because clearly he's on to something. Because he's like, yo, it's a death call to him. They're killing people. Yes.

Guys. So they're asking like any tourists that were around Yellowstone National Park at that time to like review your pictures. That was in September, right? Yep, September, it was mid-September, the 17th. So if you were, no, excuse me, the eighth. If you were in Yellowstone National Park, September, eighth or anywhere near that time.

Anywhere near that time. Look at your pictures, think real hard. Did you see anything weird? Did you hear anything weird? I don't know. I don't know if they would have been dumb enough to do it in public. No, but maybe you could see something. There's always something.

Some shady business. The thing that is weird to me is that Alex died and Tammy died. And then Charles Vallow died. And so Charles Vallow was self-defense. Tammy was natural causes and Alex was natural causes. So it's like, I'm not saying that she should get rid of her kids. I'm not saying she should get rid of anybody. But if she was going to do it, she was able to make those other three look like a mistake. So it's like, yeah, what did you do to the other two? But I think the kids no matter what that would be question.

And they'd be like, thoroughly not that the other ones weren't thoroughly investing in the kids. Right. Or like super, super, super. You can't make two kids look like an accident. But it's like, I just don't understand it. Like you were, you know that you were gonna get investigated either way. Like if your kids die suddenly, or if they fucking disappear into thin air, either way, you're gonna get investigated.

Well, that's what kills me. She's walking around. like she's like, I don't know why everybody's so like up in arms that I don't know where my fucking kids are. And it's like, sorry. Lady, like of course people are gonna investigate your ass. You have two children. It's a 17 year old and a seven year old.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. And the whole thing is I think that, I don't think she believes in like this zombie shit. I think that she knew from day one she was doing something with those kids because she fucking loved that author, dude. He was into her. So she, because remember, she didn't believe in any of,

like she was a member of the LDS church before this. But this is not the same thing. This is not the same thing. And it's like, I think that she started talking crazy like that because she had a plan and her plan all along was to be with Chad. Yeah. And now it's like, she can go back and like, maybe claim that she's insane or something. Yeah. I don't know. She could at least try to come up. I'm just trying to explain like anything in this case. But every time you think that something is normal, it's not. Well, somebody involved in this knows where those kids are.

Right. Melanie does. Melanie, 100% knows where those kids are. And it's like, speak the fuck up. What is wrong with you? I don't know what's up with her and Ian, but can you imagine if John told you that like he was wired and you were like, that's fine. And I was like, you know what, I forgive you.

And he was like, let's just move on. Right. And he says, Ian, the new I was like, you know what, I forgive you. And he was like, let's just move on. Right. Let's just move past this. And he says, and the new husband was like, you know when, like, you, I forget exactly what the quote is, but basically you're saying, you know when you keep seeing like a creepy thing, like a shadow on your wall, and then you turn the light on and you realize it's like a jacket, like, this is what that is. Like all these things are like crazy and stuff But once they get explained to you it makes sense

No, and I'm like what makes sense to you in this case? Nothing has been explained sir. No, so absolutely not so that is my take on the Lori Valor case I Really hope that I hope and hope and hope that those children are found alive I doubt that they're going to be but I do hope that they're found either way so that they can be either taken care of by family that cares about them or lead to rest. For real, because I was talking to a couple of people through Instagram DMs about it, because people were like, what do you think? And some people were like, I think they're in like a weird, like a bunker, a bunker somewhere. And it's like, that makes total sense.

And if that was the case, I would not be shocked. I wouldn't either. But I don't think you have the, like I don't think it's possible to be a shocked anymore. But I don't think they're alive. I don't either. I don't, I don't.

But then again, it's like, how did she do such a good job of disposing of them if she did kill them? Maybe when they're at Yellowstone. It's really easy to get rid of someone in a national park. In fact, that's an episode I wanna do is disappearances in national parks. I like that.

So we'll do that at some point. But yeah, I think that could be the key here. Because there's just so much ground to cover. Right, it's really hard to find. That is a good point. So. Well, let us know what you think. Yeah. Slide into our DMs on Instagram,

at... Yeah, and there. At morbid podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. At A morbid podcast. Uh, what else do we have? Send us a Gmail. morbidpodcast.gmail.com.

And donate to the Patreon if you're feeling so inclined. Patreon.com slash morbidpodcast. We hope you keep listening. and we hope you keep it. Wee! But that's a word that you turn into Lori Vallow and you off, you can go to Hawaii and then you come back and your husband dies and then everybody around you dies and then you go back to Hawaii and then you go back again

and then you go back to Hawaii again and all these people are dying around you and your brother dies and then all this crazy stuff happens around you and you have no reason to explain it and then you are on wheel of fortune so you can afford to get out of jail but don't try to lower your bail because that Jojenk gonna lower it. Don't keep it that way. Goodbye.

Don't do it. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wundery.com slash survey.