Morbid - Episode 151: The Mysterious Death of Tamla Horsford

Episode Date: June 28, 2020

Well, we have another mishandled case for you weirdos. The 2018 death of Tamla Horsford is tragic but it is also wildly suspicious. This 40 year old, mother of 5 was found face down in a back yard after attending an adult sleepover. Her injuries were varied and seemingly unexplainable for a fall from a second floor balcony. What makes this worse is the fact that this took place in Forsyth County, Georgia, a place with a documented history of racial prejudice. The case was quickly closed and called an accident despite several pieces of evidence pointing to something more sinister. Now, in 2020, Tamla's case has been officially reopened and what happened on that evening in November 2018 may finally come to light. Links to interview transcripts 1912 "Racial Cleansing" of Forsyth County MORE LINKS: https://sandrarose.com/2019/02/tamla-horsfords-autopsy-shows-she-suffered-broken-neck-traumatic-brain-injuries/ https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1460408616659683 https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/mynews/cumming/the-attorney-representing-the-family-of-tamla-horsford-says-the-evidence-suggests-tamla-was-involved-in-a-struggle-and-the-investigation-was-compromi/85-b2896eb3-8482-478d-8601-d30e7f9d9e29 https://www.patheos.com/blogs/raceandgrace/2019/02/questions-remain-about-tamla-horsfords-mysterious-death/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/raceandgrace/2019/02/questions-remain-about-tamla-horsfords-mysterious-death/ Thanks to our sponsors! Daily Harvest Go to DailyHarvest.com and enter promo code MORBID to get twenty-five dollars off your first box! Grubhub Just for our listeners, if you download the Grubhub app you’ll get $10 off your order of $30 or more every day from participating restaurants. So download the Grubhub app today and get $10 off your order of $30 or more. Stamps.com Right now, my/our listeners get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage AND a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in MORBID. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wundery pod or text wundery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. You can host the best backyard barbecue. When you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around. Connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Inside to outside, repairs to renovations. Get started on the Angie app or visit Angie.com today. You can do this when you Angie that. Hey weirdos, I'm Elena, I'm Ash and

this is a really biggest morbids. Yeah, I was gonna split this one into several parts, but I just don't want to. She just got way too excited to like, and like really like down into the new griddy. To spill this. You gotta like, you are about to like, pour over the boiling hot tea onto everyone.

It's this case, so today we're doing the case of... Sorry. I don't even know how that just happened. Oh man, today we are doing the case of Tamla Horseford, which this one has been requested a bunch of times. It's one that's been sitting on my list forever and now just seems like the best time to do it. Yeah, for sure. And it's even, I mean, it's the best time to do it anyways in general,

but also the case has just recently been reopened. So it's huge that we get it out right now. Now, I only know, like, very scar-stitials, like I know, like, a very basic overview of this case. But when I came over, I saw you listening to something and I was like, oh my god, the case is closed. You're like, what? Hearing you say that it's reopened. I was like okay good Also, did you say scars details? Yeah, that's not a word

scars Scars and sparse I was just saying oh I meant sparse. I think you put scarce and sparse together I did I liked it, but it's this it's like the same thing. So like I was just Yeah, we're just combining it. I liked it. I mean you I liked it. But it's like the same thing. So like I was just not getting it one more time. You were just combining it. I liked it. I mean, you're welcome. I like it.

Scarce. You're like, wait, what the fuck does he just say? I was like, so do you know a lot of details or not? I clearly don't know anything. I love it. I just had to point that out, Scarce. Name that episode, Scarce. It's like rule.

It is like rule. I was going to say rule. And then I said, I just say great. I had to do it. So this one's crazy. And by the way, Ash is gonna say that I don't even need to say this, but I had dental work done recently. Oh my God. And I feel like I'm list-bing slightly. So if you're literally not at all. I know, but you know how like in your head when you feel like you are, I just feel like I need to say it. So in case I do list, people aren't like, are you okay? They're like, why would she just develop a list? I told Alina that I would list like throughout the whole thing if she wanted me to,

so that people would notice it more about me, even though you're not list-bing that all. But just in case, there might be a couple of things that maybe are like, what now? So we're gonna get something straight about this case. Like we're gonna jump right into this. We're gonna treat it like a mini, even though it's gonna be a maximum morbid. But basically, because this is gonna be so long, we just don't even wanna spend time

on anything else in the next episode. So we're gonna get one thing straight right off the bat. This case takes place in Forsyth County, Georgia. This is a pretty notoriously racist county. I know a lot of people got mad at me in the Kendrick County episode because I mentioned that about that county. But this one, like, well, the facts are the facts. You just, you really can't paint this picture any other way.

Yeah, there's no other way to say this. So just to, just to give you a little background. So not like, what do you say? And it's a really nice county. What do you mean, Elena? In 1912, white residents of the county literally forced all the black people out of the fucking county. Yeah, that's not okay.

They forced all 1,098 black residents out. Black? Completely out. Just out of the county98 black residents out. Black? Just completely out. Just out of the county, black residents were warned that if they were fused and tried to stay, their homes would be burned down. That's the most horrific thing. Yeah. So that's pretty racist.

I would go ahead and say that yes it is. Well, what's even worse is, they kept up this white's only shit well into the 1980s. Now, when you tell me that they kept this up until the 1980s, I was like, how is that even fucking possible? Yeah. In fact, in 1987, black demonstrators marched in Forsyth to bring awareness to the racism there. Good. And while they peacefully marched, white supremacists threw rocks at them and waved Confederate flags, and signs saying shit like keep forcyth racially pure. Racially pure.

Yeah. Racially pure. And there was the N word everywhere. People were screaming the N word at these, like ridiculous. But the positive thing that did come out of this was weeks later, they marched again. They were not deterred by that racist bullshit and they ended up killing it. They were like 20,000 strong and it was massive. This peaceful march like black, white, everything.

Good it should have been. Of course racist assholes came out, but they were much, much fewer. They were, you know, the peaceful majority rules. Good. And it was seen as a success. So as we go through this case, we must not be remiss to forget the fucking backdrop that it takes place on. Yeah. Let's definitely keep that in our memory. I'm not saying this county is still obviously like that, but it's still very white, very conservative, currently only a 4% black population. So very numbered. Yeah, that's just, these are just facts.

This is not my opinion, this is not a political statement, it is straight facts. So let's talk about Tamela. So Tamela was born in the Caribbean and was a Caribbean through and through. She was very averse to cold weather of any kind. She was one of those people who can't handle if the temp dropped below like 70. That's what I'm waiting for. I can't wait, but she was like, no, no. She was married to a man named Leander, who she called Lee.

A lot of people refer to him as Lee. A lot of people called her Tam, that was like her nickname. They were married for 16 years, and they lived in Florida originally at the beginning of their marriage. Tamla had five sons, they had five sons together, and also had a stepdaughter that she had from another relationship, or that was

from another relationship. Okay. These boys were ranging four to 14 years old. Oh my God. So like little babes. Yeah, and the family minus the stepdaughter eventually moved to coming in four South, four-cythe county Georgia when Leander got a new job. Okay. So they were super psyched about it. The stepdaughter was older. That's why she didn't move with them. Yeah.

Uh, they were super excited about it. It was like a great opportunity for mainly for the sons to excel further in football because they were all really into football. Uh,. It was like a great opportunity for mainly for the sons to excel further in football because they were all really into football. And this was like a big football county. So they were like, cool. It's gonna be great. Perfect. Yeah, super committed to it.

Tamma loved being a football mom. Oh, she attended all the games. She was also just present as a parent in general. Like in her kids' lives. She was very much a mom. Good for her. I mean, she also Like in her kids' lives. She was very much a mom. Good for her. I mean, she also volunteered in her kids' schools all the time for like various things.

She was always volunteering in school. They said you could always find her there. I love them. She just made sure she was involved and was giving back all the time. Her family was everything, everything. She was a mom, she loved being a mom, and she and her husband were like in love

They were happy. They were just like a very like close knit. Oh, they were a tight family like they were together Yeah, they were together all the time people referred to her as quote Open open giving and the life of the party. That's what everyone said a friend said quote You couldn't not like this girl, if you tried. Her husband told police that his wife, quote, had the biggest heart on the planet. She was a super together person, very organized, and she was able to make everyone feel included all the time.

Right. Even if you didn't know her very well, you were gonna know her. Right. She's like, come on over here. She was not timid, she was not gonna make it awkward. In fact, as we'll see during the course of this night that she went to, she didn't know a lot of these women. Right, she was like, hamming it up with them.

Like just being like, where are those friends now? Yeah, so yeah. So this seems like one of those instances where the, she lit up a room, comments after they pass away are actually true. Like this was actually real. Not a bad word to say about Tim. I literally couldn't find anybody being like,

yeah, she kind of sucked to this wire. Like she had demons in this situation. She was just like, no, shit. And every photo of her, she's like happy smiling. Yeah, she looks like super, like she's beautiful. Yeah, she's beautiful. And seemingly just like a happy, cool person to be around. In coming, she met a lot of other football moms,

moms through school, that she ended up befriending. She met her best friend, Michelle Graves there when she moved there for, they were best friends for like five years. And again, she was very into meeting other moms through her children because she was so committed to being around them. And then it's like cool, you have kids, like you're gonna her children because she was so committed to being around them. And then it's like, cool, you have kids like you're going to get

that like we can go to these things together and just do this together. It's an easy way. So November 3rd, 2018. The 45th birthday slash adult sleepover party was held for John Myers. So now John is a girl. It's spelled like Jean.

Oh, okay. J-E-A and any. I read one of your things and I was reading Jean the whole time. So I was like, who's John? I was too. It's John. So this is John Myers' house. The party was thrown by a woman named Stacey. I think it's Stacey Smith actually. Okay. This party was a bunch of white football moms. actually. Okay. This party was a bunch of white football moms. Uh-huh. Uh, Tamela was the only black woman there, the only black person there. Okay. Uh, Tamela knew John because their son's played football together. Okay. She didn't know a lot of the women at the party. Some of them she'd only met like once or twice. They were like a queen, so they knew who each other was. Um, men were not supposed to be present

at this party. It was supposed to be like a girl sleepover kind of thing. But apparently Jose Barrera, the 27-year-old boy friend of the woman who owned the home, the 45-year-old woman, Jean, he was there even though he was supposed to be gone for the night. Right. Which is a little strange. He was there. He was along with Stacey's husband Thomas. They were there and according to reports and interviews they said they were supposed to be out of the house But they said neither one of them were feeling like leaving. They didn't want to go anywhere So they decided to just hang at John's house because this was not to Jose's home. This was John's home Right

They told the ladies they would hang in the basement. There was like a theater room down there. Oh, a huge That's a casual casual theater room They ended up coming upstairs at one point because there was like a big LSU football game that day That was the other thing they were gonna be like a big deal So at some point they did come upstairs and like join the girls because they saw that food was out So they just like that's when the guys have come running. Yeah, they came up to sniff around the food Yeah, and then they just ended up hanging out. Mm-hmm. So from his police interview later, Jose, so the interviewer says, so you and Tom kind of hung out downstairs mostly, y'all weren't going to be part of the party of initially.

And Jose Brera says correct. It was initially pitched to me that Tom didn't want to be at his house because there was something going on at his house, also women. So the idea was just, well, hang out somewhere. I didn't feel like spending the money. I wasn't feeling so hot anyway. So I'm like, well, so I talked to John and said, can we just hang out in the basement?

We'll stay out of your hair. Okay. So it's like, what? That's random. So he didn't want to be there because women, but then it was like, we'll stay with all women. He didn't want to spend the money. He didn't feel good, but Tom also didn't want to go

to his house because something was going on, even though his wife was at this place, it's like, what? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. What is it? Why did you stay? Well, like, can you just tell me a cohesive story? It's just really strange.

Barreira was a pretrial court officer for Forsyth County, by the way. So he's in law enforcement. That's important later. Of course, John's aunt, Madeline Lambertardi, was also there because she lived in the basement apartment in the home. Okay. So the party began at around 6.37 o'clock.

Tamla showed up later at around 8.30ish because she was getting her kids all settled. Right. And if I can't relate to that shit, like I am basically unavailable at night until after 8 p.m. Yes, I have to that shit. Like, I am basically unavailable at night until after 8 p.m. as you are. As fast can tell you, because it's just a chaotic scene of trying to like, bathe kids, feed kids, get them, read stories, get them down. Like, well, she had five of them.

And she has five of them too. And one of them was like four. Yeah. And so, and she also, I guess she stayed to like, make them dinner, make sure they had dinner, make sure her husband was all set up. Yeah, make sure they're all settled. Because I mean, she's leaving the husband with the five kids. It's like, I wanna make sure they had dinner, make sure her husband was all set up. Yeah, make sure they're all settled. Because I mean, she's leaving the husband

with the five kids. It's like, I want to make sure everything was like, just probably like double checking and triple checking everything. Because especially like you know you're, I mean, if you have a good husband or partner or wife or anything, you trust obviously that you can leave and everything's going to run smoothly.

But at the end of the day, you're a mom. Well, and you also just want to make it easier. Because I would feel like, I would feel bad leaving chaos chaos even though I know John can handle it. Yeah, it's a mom thing. I would rather leave it smooth, you know. And so I think she was making dinner, she was just making sure everything was settled. She even left a casserole for the breakfast the next morning. Like made a casserole, left it for them because she was like, I want to make sure you guys are totally set. So that, and I feel like that even speaks to the kind of like woman that she has.

Oh, yes, it definitely does. Now, she brought a fancy bottle of tequila to give to John as a birthday gift. She stopped on the way. That's so nice. The whole plan was that they were all going to watch the LSU versus Alabama football game. They were going to have some drinks. They were going to, you know, eat some gumbo, eat some picky food, and they were gonna have an adult sleepover. Now see, that's like all well and fine, but an adult sleepover sounds like my worst nightmare.

Oh, I, everything about this, I was like, oh, I don't want to eat this. A girl's night, I'm so down for it. Like midnight, bye. Yeah, absolutely. Midnight, one o'clock, I'm like, oh, I'm going to sleep with my own bed. Oh, yeah, bye. That's exactly it. But by all accounts, including her husband's account, she was having a good time.

She was happy. She was happy to be having some girl time because I mean, she had five kids. She was in a house of six dudes all the time. Oh, yeah, all her kids were boys. Yeah, she needed some girl time. Yeah, I don't blame her. So she called Leander at one point, around like 10ish.

And she said, I'm having a good time He was feeling good that she was having a night to relax a little bit She also facetimeed her daughter and I think her the rest of her family at one point just to show them off to the party stop which like makes my heart hurt. Yeah, and this is gonna destroy me as an it very they played So the party go is played card cards against humanity and just like hung out, it was just like a chill time. I love it too because all these women told investigators they remember Tam less smoking a joint on the porch at one point, but only one of them would be like, oh yeah, like I've

taken a hit of marijuana before. Well, let's be real. And it's like you were smoking together. Come on. Come on. And like, if you're gonna smoke a joint in somebody's house, typically, you're like, like you know that they also smoke, or you know that they're cool with it. Exactly.

So it shouldn't have been like a thing. It's also like, I feel like it was, a lot of things were presented in a way to almost make tamarind look bad. Or look bad. And it's like trying to be like, well I've only done it once in my whole life. Well then you probably say. So it's kind of like also John said she didn't want the present from Tamla because she said she told police the smell of the tequila made her quote throw up in her mouth. Like okay ladies. What does that have to do with anything that you didn't want her gift?

You don't have to be nasty. Like it's just like, I already, I was like, I don't like you. These are like those moms, it sounds like. Yeah, it's just no one I want to hang out with. No, Tamela drank a lot, but no one says- Because she's having some fucking girl time. They're staying there. And no one- and now the thing is everyone says she was never out of control. They never thought she appeared drunk.

They said she never appeared like she couldn't stand that she was slurring nothing. They said she appeared buzzed at most. Yeah, she said. That's how girls sleep over. She's definitely drinking a lot, but she could hold her alcohol. She doesn't handle it. Now one chick, Jennifer Morelle, was drunk off her ass and had to be carried in a bed. Okay. Everyone repeatedly said that they just never ever saw Tamela out of control, which is good. Yeah. It's like, okay, so we know that

she was not out of control. Now, Tamela and Bridget Fuller, another woman at the party, Now, Tamla and Bridget Fuller, another woman at the party, with the last one's awake at 145 AM. Okay. Now Fuller's husband picked her up around this time. And Tamla said goodbye to her. This is the last time that anyone claims to have seen her alive. But obviously somebody saw her.

So at around 8.30 in the morning, the next morning, according to Madeline, which is Jean's aunt. She was making coffee and peered through the window while she was like getting the grinds going. And she looked into the backyard and she noticed some pajamas though, we're peaking over the grass. Like she could see something lying in the grass and she realized it's tamla, because she could tell.

She had like Dalmatian pajamas on. Yeah, she had, they weren't Dalmatians. It was like an adult onesie and it had pop prints all over it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So as soon as she sees Tamla Horstford based down in the grass not moving, she immediately said in her police interview, this just like took, I was like, what?

That's what you did. What did she do? She said, quote, so I didn't start the coffee. I got on my knees and I set a prayer. What? So let me just get this straight. So you look outside and the window and you see a motionless human being

on the back in the backyard face down with their face buried in the grass, not moving and seemingly not breathing. And you don't go to help them. You know what that says to me? Is that she knows something went real bad and she was praying for everybody else that was there. Well then I'm like what? So then she said so I set a prayer and then I ran upstairs and I knocked on the door and I thought I heard water running and I thought maybe it was John taking a shower.

So I went downstairs because I was like thinking I shouldn't wake up. Maybe she's up. So I went downstairs and I looked out the window again and it was just like, I couldn't believe my eyes. I was saying inside my head, she's not moving. She's not moving. So then I went and knocked on the door louder. Just John's room. And it's like, wait, what? Why didn't you go outside? So girl, okay. So you dropped to your knees and prayed immediately which like cool definitely take your time for sure right not any distress you're just like a quick prayer out loud while you're like running to action you are admitting right here that you are saying she's not moving she's not moving it was clear to you that she was not moving right so something was wrong right so you

ran up to John's room where you hear water running and you think she's in the shower. You knock on the door out of the shower. Get her out of the shower. No one comes to the door. So then you run back downstairs and you just go, oh no, oh, he. And then you're like, okay, I should go back upstairs. So you go back upstairs and knock on her door. What are you doing? That makes no sense. This is just like the other, the Jose story where he's like, I was in the basement because like I had to be, but I didn't want to be because Tom didn't want to be in his house and you know money. This is nothing compared to the convoluted statements that I get told over and over again. So now remember Madeline has just said that she

looked out the window and saw Tamla on the on the ground. She went right to Jean's room. She heard water running. She thought someone was in the shower. No, in the door she went downstairs. She came back up, knocked on the door again. Remember that. Okay. So 8.45 AM, Madeline knocked on John's door again. According to Jose and John, she and Jose were sleeping.

The mom was the water running. Why was the water running? Right. And of course Madeline's like, I think I heard the water running. I don't know. No, you know when you hear water running. You know you can definitely tell when somebody's like, I think I heard the water running. I don't know. No, you know when you hear water running. You definitely tell somebody shower or washing their hands or whatever. Well, when they let her in, she was like, obviously a bit frantic. And she said, I need to speak to Jose right away. Now, this is John's aunt. Right. Like, what? Why do you need to speak to

the 27 year old boyfriend? Right. Who doesn't even live in the house. I feel like I don't care who the fuck I talk to. There's a dead body in the backyard. I think someone listen. So she tells them Tamla's lying down in the backyard, face down, not moving at all. And she referred to her as your friend from the islands. It's down in the back. She said she wanted to talk to Jose

and she wanted Jose to look at Tamla. Why? Because he was a nice idea. He was, was he in law enforcement? What's his job? job? He was like a cord on. So maybe that's why, but it also makes no fucking sense. Still doesn't. I'm like, why would you even specify? Right. I would just say, call 911. He never tried CPR. No one ever tried CPR on her. They never turned her over and no one attempted to see if she was really breathing. Right. Because she could have been.

She was face down. So she's laying, and when I say face down, not head to the side, face in the grass down. To me, I would flip my front over. Flip over, yeah. To be like, what is happening here? If it was my friend, I mean, I know you're not supposed to move a body, but like sometimes you don't think of that. You don't know that they're dead.

Right. You should be wanting to help them. Well, if he worked in law enforcement, you would think that he would know to try CPR something, right? Well, he said he touched her back to see if she was breathing. He couldn't feel any breathing. He also said he tried to move her leg and realize that she was completely stiff.

He just moved her leg. Then her leg, which to moved her leg. Bend her leg. Okay. Which to me is the weirdest first response to a body I've ever heard in my life, that your first thing that you do is that you try to bend her leg. I feel like to me it just feels like they didn't want to touch her. You know what I mean? It's just strange. Right.

And I mean that. And they thought it was like a weird thing. Like they didn't want to do it. Well, and it gets murder. So he's saying her leg wouldn't bend. He couldn't bend her leg so she stiff, completely stiff. So we have rigor. Now does that mean that she's been dead for a while?

Well, we're going to discuss it in length later. Okay. So 8.59 a.m. John Culls 9-1-1 and told the dispatcher about the party and the scene in front of her. She said, quote, we were drinking. Most of us went to bed. One of them stayed on the balcony. She was drinking and we just went outside and she's laying face down in the backyard.

Okay. Now, then she suggests that she may have fallen off the balcony. She then gives the, so she's like, I don't know, she must have fallen off the balcony and then she hands the phone to Jose. To do what? And she's like, you talk to know, she must have fallen off the balcony and then she hands the phone to Jose to do what? And she's like, you talk to them. So Jose says at one point, I'm noticing a small cut on her right wrist. She's not breathing whatsoever.

I don't know if this cut was self-inflicted. What? So now it's a small cut. Wait a second, she committed suicide. Now you're insinuating that she slit her wrists. Right. What? And it's like, and now you're saying sheuating that she slit her wrists. Right. What? And it's like, and now you're saying she's not breathing whatsoever, but as we'll see soon,

he then says, I don't know if she's breathing. Oh, okay, that's very different. That's a witchy thing. Is she breathing or not breathing whatsoever? I don't understand. So first they're saying, you know, she was drinking. She must have fallen off the balcony. And then they're like, maybe she's slittered wrists? I don't know. Like don't know like it's all the sudden turning into this weird like what are you guys doing?

It's like we didn't do it on she didn't she must have done this this and this cuz I had nothing to do with it Is anyone worried about oh, I don't know if she's alive or not like no one we're just gonna theorize about how she got there Like maybe try to help her right and nine one one dispatcher never is like do you want to try CPR they never ask that they're just like oh Okay, she's do you think she jumped like they're just like what let's try to figure out what happened so business like that's not your job also Jose first says like I said before she isn't breathing not breathing at all completely and he says whatsoever yeah whatsoever she isn't breathing, isn't moving, and she is stiff, completely stiff. He literally says this to her. Yeah.

The dispatcher, dispatcher then asks again, is she moving or breathing? And he says, I have no idea if she's moving or breathing. And he says, quote, I completely can't tell. Okay. So that's, yeah. What? But wait, you touched, you said you touched her back to see if she was breathing and she wasn't what's So ever whatsoever. What's so ever breathing and now you've gone the other way saying I can't tell

I can't tell not even like I'm not sure I come that's like a totally that's the opposite end of the wavelength Yeah, so then the dispatcher is like you start slatching on to this, oh, she, she has a cut on her wrist. Was she suicidal? And they're like, oh, yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't know her. Like, and he does say, he's like, I don't know her. I've only met her like last night and maybe one other time. Right. And he was like, I can't tell you. And then at one point, he says, because they're asking about the balcony up above. Uh-huh. And they're saying, so as they says, quote, it's about 20 feet from where your feet are standing on the railing. So now he's literally just saying, she stood on the railing

and jumped. Not that she accidentally fell. No, now he's literally just committed to, well, when you stand on the railing, it's 20 feet. And also, how do you know that? Like, what? So now we're just assuming she stood on the railing and jumped like what? So he then says Very definitively we have cameras up on the on the port on the balcony Perfect covers the whole balcony and he says we will check them. Oh And he says thank you so much and he says many times he says it'll catch the whole thing Whatever happened on that balcony will be on those cameras

And then he says we will check them. Oh my god. I bet they malfunctioned that night at that exact time, huh? Well, he says you know, I'm gonna do it. Don't worry. No one tells him no no sir Do not touch us give them to law enforcement No one says that to him and in fact they were never given to. And in fact, they were never given to police. Oh, shocking. And they were never given to police. And later, they were accidentally deleted. I mean, it's common mistake in these things. It seems to happen. I often delete vital pieces of evidence when someone dies in my backyard. All the time. It's just so easy to do. Right. What? And we'll talk about that even more later. Don't worry about it

So Jose said to dispatch on the Nimon Munkal He says I last saw Tamla at 1 a.m. In the kitchen and he said I think she was like waiting for a ride Or she was waiting until morning. That's what he says Okay, and he's so they're waiting until morning. She was waiting for a ride or just waiting up till morning. So police specifically lead investigator Christian arrive at 9.07 a.m. The officers unseen immediately saw Jose and we're like, oh shit, hey, we know you. He will tell us. Your felony probation officer in Forsyth County, cool. So he, and he had initially worked there, and was currently working in pre-trial court at that moment. So he was a felony probation agent

at first, and then he was a pre-trial court officer. Got it. They determined immediately Tamela was deceased. And the coroner and CSI show up. Now, initially EMS was never sent to the scene. Which is weird because he said he didn't know if she was breathing, so he should have been. And investigators made the call that she was dead. Not a medical examiner or a coroner.

Which is like very unusual. They are supposed to call EMS to confirm because they can't make that call. They don't make the cause, like you don't say that she's dead That's not you know your job right? That's not what you're just trying to figure out why she's dead now like I said Tamla was lying face down. Yeah, and when investigators found her

She had one arm up and out and one arm down by her side. Okay, so her right wrist was clearly swollen broken and dislocated And this was the wrist that was up and out. Try to break her fall. Probably. That's what they were saying. So this arm position is noted in the sketch of the crime scene. It's that's how she was, and that's how she was found. Remember that.

So her body was sent to the Georgia Bureau of Investigations for an autopsy. They also sent her there because even the investigators thought her body was in a strange position. Yeah, that is a weird position. Yeah, when they first saw it, they were like, I don't know if this really like goes along with falling. Jumping off of falling. And so, and then they also were like weird that there's a lack of blood pooling around her. Like there's no blood. Yeah, because if you had fallen from that much, it would have been so much impact. Exactly. Like there's no blood. Yeah, because if you had fallen from that much, it would have been so much impact.

Exactly, and it's just very weird from a fall from that height. And don't you think she would have like broken her nose if she was face first? Oh yeah, and we'll get to that, don't worry. But then they hypothesized, okay, maybe she tripped over this like lip that was bordering the grass on the,

it's like this lip when you walk out down to the backyard. Okay, yeah. A little landscape thing. They were like, maybe she tripped over that because she had like, and like some kind of seizure or something. So she didn't break her fall because she just tripped and boom. Okay. So yeah, so they were like, that's why there wasn't a lot, you know, that's why she landed face down because maybe she didn't even put her hands out, but that still doesn't explain the broken wrist. Or any of the other- Because all the time you tripped, you're not gonna break your fucking wrist that bad.

No, especially not from that, just falling from straight down. Right. Now they, and we'll get into the injuries in a minute or so. So they called back the women and men who had already left the party like the night before. Or like you need to come right on

Yeah, they're like you need to come back. So Everyone who is still in the home that so they put these people in two places the people that were still in the home They kept in one place the new the people that were coming back. They put another mm-hmm now one room was You know, they were separated that way, but they were also left to speak to each other and those groups. They could get their story straight. They could come in go within these groups. So in the reports, John says two women, Sarah Nicole, had to leave somewhere around 1030 as the night before.

They were the first ones to leave. It's like fuzzy whether they had to leave because they had to take care of kids or puppies. Like there's two different stories. You know, kids. Some little life did it their caring. At 147 AM was when Bridget left when her husband came to pick her up. She was the last person to say she saw Tamma.

And then at 410 AM, Marcy left. Marcy left, I guess at 410 AM because I think she had to go to like a work at a job that she worked on the weekends. So she's left early. 7.45 a.m. a woman named Paula left and 8.30 a.m. Tom and Stacey who were married left. So Tom and Stacey, I'm like, how did Janelle see any right before? 15 minutes before. Literally. Now remember, Jose said he last saw Tamla at like 1 a.m. in the kitchen. Remember?

And he told 911, she seemed like she was deciding whether to leave or wait until morning. He also told another officer that he saw Tamla last at 1.30 a.m. and that she specifically said to him that she was going outside to have a smoke and then sleeping on the couch or upstairs in a guest bedroom. Okay. So now he's told two different stories within a couple of hours about was she contemplating leaving or was she definitively

staying for the night because you literally just told two different things. One you saw her at one, she was pretty sure she was going gonna leave, she wasn't sure if she was gonna call someone together or if she was just gonna wait up until morning. In the second one, now it's 130. And she's figuring out where she's gonna sleep. Going to have a cigarette, which you didn't, that's suddenly new.

And she's gonna go have a cigarette. She's gonna have a cigarette. Exactly, so now she's going to get a cigarette and she's telling you I'm gonna sleep on the couch or upstairs. Right, so it's like, which one? Well, now I wonder too, because it's like, why would she want to wait up until morning to leave?

Yeah, that's what I mean, like something happened. Well, that's the thing, it's like this upset. Yeah, exactly. Now, almost everyone at this point, or one point or another tells investigators that Tamla at some point Like right to what you were saying in the evening or early morning wanted to leave. Yeah, she wanted to go home Something happened. Everyone mentions it and they all say she expressed that she wanted to go home But no one would let her under the whole like you're you drank too much. We don't want you to drive

So then call her husband. And it's like, I get that you don't want her to drive. Like drive her home. Except this is 2018. Call an Uber. Oh, wow. Who am I? Just Uber.

Yeah. And it's like, you could have called her an Uber if she wanted to leave. And it appeared from everyone's statements that she was also totally under control. So she likely could have called one for herself. Right. if she wanted to leave, and it appeared from everyone's statements that she was also totally under control. So she likely could have called one for herself. Right. No one's saying she's like slaubering, dropping it. Drunken can't do it. Right. She could have called her, so you could have been like, get a new girl, stay up and wait for you. But they were probably like scaring her and just saying for some reason?

Everyone's saying it's like, what happened that she wanted to leave first of all? And to why was no one just letting her go? Yeah, because up until this point, she was having a grand time like FaceTime or family and everything. So it's like, huh. So Jose also said to 911. This is where it gets even weirder. So he had said to 911. He was woken out of sleep by Madeline, or Madeline. And he and John came out of their room and saw a tamla outside. So that's the, but in the incident report,

the officer writes, quote, Jose told me while he was cleaning up the following morning, he found an unlit cigarette and a lighter lying on the floor of the porch. The brand of cigarettes matched the cigarette's tamla smoked. What? So wait, I thought you were woken out of sleep

by Matt Alleyant to check, check tamla, but now you were cleaning up. Yeah, what were you cleaning up? What were you cleaning up? And then several of the party goers say in the reports that they had woken up and started cleaning up at what time. But initially the story was that Madeline woke up before everyone saw Tamla and woke up Jose and John. Right. So was everyone up and cleaning? Or was, is Madeline's story correct?

Right. Because both, it's, these are, these are all very separate. And now it's like, okay. So Madeline says she went to the door of Jose and John's bedroom. And someone was showering. Herred someone's showering. Or water running, maybe washing my hands. Jose and John are saying, no, she woke us out of a dead sleep.

But then I was also cleaning. But then I was also cleaning and found these cigarettes. Well, I was sleepwalking. Like what? Doesn't make any sense. Now both Jonna and Jose date several times that Tamla was the only smoker. Uh huh.

In fact, every one of these people say many times, they harp on the fact she was the only smoker. Uh-huh. In fact, every one of these people say many times they harp on the fact she was the only smoker. Okay. Out of course. And that she went outside on the balcony several times to smoke. Except I saw in somebody else's interview that they said they thought she was just a one of those smokers who like drinks and smokes. Oh, like a casual smoker. And they said like she wasn't smoking like that much. Like it wasn't she went out a couple times. But these people are like, oh yeah, she went out a ton of times.

Okay. So they're trying to make her look bad again. Yeah. And both Jose and John eventually both said that at 1 a.m. they both saw her now. And they said that she was going outside to smoke. So now they've convened on this, she's having one last cigarette. And then going to sleep. So now they're they first started this, she's having one last cigarette, and then going to sleep. So now they're, they first started out. They're in a greeence. Exactly. And they first started out with this like, at first it was John saying she saw her at one,

and that she said she, I think it was, John says at one point, that she saw her at one o'clock, that Tamla was like, you should stay up. Like, I don't get to hang out with girls too much, like, I don't get out, like, please stay up, I wanna like hang out some more. Yeah. And Jon was like, no, like, I gotta go to sleep. And now she's saying that she saw her at one,

that she's told her she was gonna go have another smoke and then go to sleep. Yeah, different stories, which is, which is Jose's second story. Right, he's fun. So it seems like they got together and were like, show we need We need to say a little bit and now Jose has moved his from 130 to 1 o'clock again. So that they're imperfect

So now that imperfect harmony good good good good. Now John also described her to the 911 investigator As she said she face planted she goes she's face planted on the backyard. Oh Not lying in the grass face down or something like that, which to me is just very off way of saying. Well, face planted makes it seem like you were a drug mass and you were like, like you ate shit basically. It insinuates that you face planted. It's like, how do you know if she's face planted?

You don't know that. That's weird. Like that's insinuating action. Right. It's just very weird to me. So John also told, and they were very open open about this which I think a lot of these I have cameras I have this I have that is like we can document what what was going on last night just so you guys know right John also had a security app on her phone and

It's sent notifications whenever doors were open and shut right house And it sent notifications whenever doors were open and shut in the house. Now Jose immediately told Neymar on this like he was like, let me tell you. I she has an app on her phone and it can say when doors open, which is like, that's not even helpful. I was gonna say doors were probably opening and shutting all the fucking night long and they were not very keen. They were like very keen to remind investigators of this a lot like we have that app. We have that app. I can tell you on the doors open. And to me, their obsession with spilling this information was they really were trying to overly account

for what was going on that night. Like the app says what doors open and close and what times, but they don't tell you how many people go through those doors. Yeah, right. Or like catch somebody like falling off a balcony after the door shots. And so it's a good way to look helpful without actually providing a real alibi.

So it's a good way for them to go look at how cooperative we are. Here you go. Here's all these things, but they don't really give any information. Right. It's just like a facade. Now, Myers, the security thing on her phone,

said that the front door was opened at 1.47 pm or AM, excuse me, and that was said to be when Bridget left with her husband. Okay. So that's when she said she last saw Tamla, then the balcony door opens at 1.49 and closes at 1.50. Then it opens at 1.57 and never closes again. Okay. So John says, of course, John is like, well, this was probably Tamla after saying goodbye to Bridget going on the porch to smoke at 149 150. And if the door opened again at 157, that's a normal amount of time for a smoke

break, like seven minutes. But why didn't the door close again? Right7, that's a normal amount of time for a smoke break, like seven minutes. But why didn't the door close again? Right. And why didn't Madeline notice that the next morning that the fucking balcony door was wide open? That'd be a weird thing. Because it was definitely closed. But was she walking back in the house and something happened?

She wouldn't have walked back in and left the door open and obviously she was found outside so she didn't go back in the house. Right. Did she open the door and then turn around and somehow walk across the balcony and just fall over? That doesn't make sense at all. No, she opened the door and somebody else went out with her. Did she go inside and someone stopped her? Or did someone take her outside?

Right. And then that was it. And then they didn't close the door. There's also like, there's a photo that I found that is, it's the photo that shows all the different like, you know, the screenshot that she had taken of her phone that says like front door was closed at 147. You know, I mean, like, all that. And on it, it also says that the garage door was opened at 139 am.

The garage door was closed at 140 and then the garage door was opened at 140 and then never closed. That's weird. Like who was in the garage? Well, and why? And why did the door never close again? Normally you close your garage when you come back. It's this is all just so weird. I don't get it. So when Tamless family was informed of her death, they immediately were suspicious. Yeah. They were like, what? She went to a sleepover and then ended up dead.

Yeah. Partie Goers said they found her bag and her black leather jacket next to the front door where she arrived that night. And that she was found in a one-piece pajama set with the pop prints on it. Her dad was like, yeah, it's November and last night was like 30 degrees. She would have put her jacket on. She would never be hanging outside without her jacket. Right. She can barely hang inside without her jacket.

Right. We mentioned in the beginning she did not like the cold weather. She's from the Caribbean. It's a big inside joke that she wears her jacket inside. He agreed with police too. He was like her body is strangely positioned. Yeah. It doesn't make sense to me. And the lack of blood at the scene was also another like what? Like how are we really pretending that this is okay? Right. So the next day autopsy results come in Her blood alcohol level was 0.24, which is three times the legal driving limit, which is .08. Yep. That's a pretty high alcohol level, but like she's in a house.

The toxic results showed traces of marijuana and Xanax, but no other drugs. And it was a very small amount of Xanax. Xanax was not prescribed to her, and there was no evidence of it anywhere on her person which is weird. No pill bottles, nothing. No other pills, not at all. So probably slipped in her drink. To me she was drugged. Especially a small amount. Right. It seems like it was like yeah it just doesn't and everybody who knows her was like no, she did not take Xanax. That's weird. Her right wrist was broken, severely broken.

And there was a one-inch laceration on the inside of her wrist. Now there was also a laceration on her left forearm, bruises and lacerations on her fingers and shins, severe injuries on her head neck and torso, several superficial abrasions, one on her forehead, one above her left eyelid, and on the bridge of her nose, her right temple, and her chin. Okay, all of those places are not going to get hit because it's like intently when you fall. So she fell and then she just what, like, dragged her head all around, like slammed her face.

She would have had to repetitively fall over and over and over again. And she also had a fracture of the C2 second vertebrae and which is a common injury, I guess, when you like slam your chin into something and like whip it back, it's a common injury. Other injuries were lacerations on the right ventricle of her heart,

which can happen oftentimes, it's not like super common, but it's in like car crashes, like a very hard traumatic injury to your chest. Okay. Now, the medical examiner said that no facial bones were broken, which is weird because you would think that if you slammed your face that hard,

you would break your nose. And there were several spots of bleeding in her cranium. Like there was lots of brain bleeding. So the cause of death was ended up being multiple blunt force injuries, and they attributed it to a fall from a great height. But how do you get multiple blunt force injuries from one fall?

And there was nothing in her nasal cavities, nothing in her mouth. No, her mouth wasn't bleeding. No, nothing. So it's like, here's what's crazy to me. So the other thing is, sorry, to interrupt your teeth. Exactly. She was found face down, right? Face to the side.

And the other thing is, if you're falling, you're automatically going to turn your head to the side. And the other thing is if you're falling, you're automatically going to turn your head to the side. You're not going to fall in slam your face into the ground. No matter what, even if it's from 14 feet above, you're going to turn your head to the side to protect your face. It's just like a reaction. And it's like, so if she didn't do that, so how did she not break her nose? Right. And like you said, her teeth. How was there no bleeding in her mouth? Well, then you think that an injured in her mouth?

Did you say there was markings on her neck? No, she fractured a vertebrae. Oh, okay, she fractured vertebrae. A vertebrae. And there was also like, lacerations about her eyelid on her temple, on her chin, on the bridge of her nose. But it's like, she fell in the grass,

she didn't fall on like gravel, and like, she skid her face or something like it was very very strange. Yeah, these because they don't add up. It didn't happen that way. They don't add up. Now here's the kicker. No photos were taken during the autopsy. Why? That's abnormal. That's really abnormal. That's much more than abnormal. That's unheard of. That literally doesn't happen. No photos were taken. Not one photo was taken during the autopsy. And did they give any explanation for why? No. Oh. Okay. Just didn't do it. That's good.

That literally does not happen. Like what? You have to take photos during an autopsy. That's part of the autopsy. Yeah. Nope. Didn't take them. There's no photos, so we have nothing to look at for those injuries. Nothing. You just have to be like, well, guess he's still in the truth. Well, and I mean, because that's part of the reason you take photos during an autopsy is to corroborate your findings. Right. You say, hey, she has a laceration above her left eyelid. Here it is.

Here's the photo of it. Right. He's just saying this. We don't know. And now we'll never fucking know. He's saying that she has a tear in her right ventricle of her heart? Cool, I guess. All right, I guess we'll just take your word for it.

Well, and it's like, why not take pictures because you're... I mean, the findings show that something else happened. That's why you don't take photos. That's what you're saying. It anyways in the autopsy. So I don't understand why you're not just taking pictures too. You're already saying it anyway. Because he's hoping that nobody's questioning this. She's held from a great height. Of course, she's going to have some bumps and bruises and cuts. Don't not that many. But Of course, she's gonna have some bumps and bruises and cuts. Don't not that many, but so no photos taken. Statements from all witnesses at the party were not given officially until like a couple weeks after the death.

Oh, so plenty of time to get your shit together. And the interviews are shocking. Oh, ridiculous. There's many conflicting statements by people at the party and the evidence, just everything is conflicting. Everything, nothing makes sense. Tons of these people all said, quote, like I said before, she was the only smoker over and over and over.

It's like, gosh, we get it. But there were two lighters and there were two kinds of cigarettes on the porch. So she, I mean, she wanted some variety that it makes no sense. And also, so there's a ton of cigarettes on the porch. So she I mean she wanted some variety of that it makes no sense and also so there's a ton of cigarettes on the porch and all that good stuff they never tested any of the cigarettes. Why would that's the number one thing that you would think you do? No testing whatsoever. They just took everyone's word that she was the only smoker and never questioned it

with actual police work. They're just like okay she was the only smoker and never questioned it with the actual police work. Good. It's like, okay, she was the only smoker and they were like, oh, yep, she was the only smoker and they're like, cool, cool, cool, cool. Guess we'll just go with it. Now, there's also a lot of sources that say that she did not have her cell phone or her keys. They took her cell phone and her keys. It's one thing to take keys if you think somebody's trying to take her cell phone. Because it's like she there's no ex explanation for that. Excuse me. None. Now I want to go into the interviews now because Wauzers. That's insane. Because Wauzers. Alright, so I'm going to start this off with Madeline Lombardi's interview. Madeline is the aunt.

Okay, so she's the one that saw a shadow weighted 0.5 seconds for you to answer that. He just loved jumping in there. I do. So there's nothing to of note in the beginning. It's just her reiterating the whole like, you know, like I read one piece of it earlier, where she looked out She saw Tamma she dropped her knees. She said a prayer wasted time. She you know built a

Foundation she like read a newspaper and then she went and got help I almost just said she ricked and ordered because of Rick and Morty She ricked and mortared some building She ricked and mortared some buildings. She ricked and mortared. Ah, mashed kill everybody. Yo. So what's strange about her interview is how it comes to kind of a quick end. So you mean it, like maybe somebody just hit stop on the tape is what you're saying? No.

Something much funnier happens and something much stranger happens. Now, these interviews were done like I said a couple weeks after, the actual crime. A lot of them were done at Jean Meyers' home. Oh, so like you don't have to come downtown? No, we'll just come to you. Oh, so you know convenience. So at one point, they're giving Madeline the interview, asking her all the the stuff and all of a sudden in the transcript John walks in to the interview just bus right in and says I'm gonna start charging y'all rent oh

And officer Christian says get out of my head Why? Not sure Like yeah, like a tiny hair like it out of her head and she says, look what I just went and got y'all gift cards. Oh, uh-huh. Bribing officers, are we? So then she says, then I was told I shouldn't, because it would look bad if I give you something

before the case is closed. Yeah, it does look bad. Many things about that. Yep, you are straight up bribing them. And it's on transcript now. So like, okay, John. But apparently that doesn't matter. Two, he's in the middle of a fucking interview

for a tragic death that occurred at your home, two, and three, why are you so eager for this case to be closed? Right. You don't know what happened to her either, according to you. And this is supposed to be your like somewhat friend. A friend. You invited her. Who died tragically at your either, according to you. And this is supposed to be your like somewhat friend. A friend? You invited her? Who died tragically at your home. Shouldn't you be like, I would like to know what happened to her.

Let's not just close this case. Well, and I would like to know what happened at my home. Well, and then she says, and it's very, it's very typical because I figure all the cops love Dunkin' Donuts, right? Oh my god, no, she didn't. And then Officer Christian says, you may have something, which I don't know what that means. then she says do you need me now? This was the day of Tamless funeral. By the way, she says do you need me or can I go upstairs and get ready for this funeral?

This funeral for this funeral and Christian officer Christian says go do your thing and she says okay, perfect And then he starts the interview by going so anyway. This is very, very formal. She walks into the fucking interview, which is insane to me. Yeah. Insane. With bribed gifts. And walks in and it's like, here's some gift cards officers. Because I know you like donuts. Like, oh wow, it gets worse and worse. She straight up is unrecorded, bribing the police officers. And nobody cares.

That's where I'm in this case. And nobody cares. And we're all just gonna be like, okay, that's funny. No. That's not funny. John is weird as fuck and not in a good way. Nope.

Something's off with her and I will say that on record. Shit is weird at that house. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on with her don't know what's going on with her. Something's weird. Yeah, I agree. I'm not pointing a finger at her. I'm not cause, I'm not getting sued by anybody.

I'm not saying anybody did it. I'm just saying, John's got some stuff. And I believe John knows more than she's letting on. I agree. That's how I feel. That's just how I feel. So that's a little weird.

And then immediately, they go back into the interview, but now the interview has has turned weird and the vibe is off. And I think even the officers were like, that was weird. And they're she trying to bribe us. And in fact, I'm going to go through John's interview to where she is very much everywhere. Like scatterbrains, very scatterbrained. And at one point, the officer is like, yeah, you can't bribe us. Are you serious? He doesn't say that, but he's like,

you can't do that. We can't accept those gift cards. You know that, right? Like, why would you do that? I mean, at least they didn't accept them because I really thought that they were going to. Honestly, I think they said on record. Yeah, they wanted to make sure.

They probably took them. Like, I'm sure maybe they didn't take them, but they wanted to make sure on record that they were like, we Honestly, I think they said on record. Yeah, they took them. Like, I'm sure maybe they didn't take them, but they wanted to make sure on record that they were like, we can't accept that. Yeah. Like, because they were like, oh shit. This is an offer I can refuse. Yeah. And I think it only went on for like another couple of minutes her interview and then it was cut off. It was like, all right, well, that was that. So she really fucked it. Which it's like, okay. So, you came in and you tried to bribe the officers, you make weird small talk. We're gonna see a couple times

and this is just my, you know, what I'm seeing here. What you're taking away. John looks like she is flirting with especially officer Christian quite a bit. Well, to make it like chill. There's a few times and I'll show you, you'll see it when I start reading more things. She seems, first of all, she starts calling him Mike.

Oh, okay. Which I'm sorry. She's like, I don't call him Mike. I still, I have worked under one pathologist for how long? Like close to, not 10 years, but like close maybe. Almost eight or nine. It's gotta be like eight years at this point.

Yeah. I still do not call him by his first name. No, it's rude. And we are together a lot. Well, we were just raised like that. I call him Dr. Dada Dada. And it's like, That's exactly his name.

Dr. Dada Dada. But I call him Dr. Blah. Like I don't, I just feel like I don't want to put him on a bike. No, I know, I know. But I've never called him his first name. No, it's rude. If somebody has a title, you call them their title. Yeah. That's like calling your professor like Joe.

Like, hey, what's up, Joe? That's the thing. It's like, like, no. Yeah, in fact, perfect. I have another, I have a professor who became like my mentor. Yeah, yep, you do. Still call him professor Bupa-Bah. Yeah. It's weird how Elena has all these death-to-doz Bupa-Bahs.

Thank God, she's got really cool names. But I don't, I just don't, I don't know. It's like a respect thing. I know, and this isn't the south too, so you would think that like, especially in the south, I feel like things are a little more formal. Oh, so this is not like play time. Like this is not...

Sure it is. Let's hang out. Let's be casual time, John. What's the big deal? This is a very huge thing that just happened in your home. And if you are claiming to know nothing about it, you should be very much treating this whole thing with kid gloves and being like, I'm gonna be respectful, I'm gonna be cooperating with everybody.

Yeah. And I'm going to respect the officers, the investigators, the doctors that are all taking care of this, you don't just start calling them Mike. Like what, you guys brose now? Like that's weird. Well she thinks that they are. And it's like, how do you not see how that's coming off too's like how do you not see how that's coming off too like how do you not see that you're coming off as very

flippant about this first of all you're coming off as you're bribing them for some strange fucking reason and because you know what happened at your house at least something yeah and then on top of it you're sitting there being like when this you know before this case is closed how the fuck do you know this case is gonna be closed? Maybe it's gonna be an open case because they're looking for whoever did this. Why are you assuming it's gonna be open shut?

It's so weird. And then should I just get ready for this funeral? Oh, this funeral? Like, oh, just like, you know, this one, like for this woman that died in my home tragically. Not even the funeral? This funeral. To me, that immediately came off as like, like, I don't give a fuck. I have to get Not even the funeral. This funeral. To me, that immediately came off.

It's like, look, I don't give a fuck. I have to get ready for this funeral. Like, appearances got to go. I hate having to go to this function. Like, that's how it comes off to me. No, like, it's like, I don't. It's very strange. Very, very strange. The whole thing is strange. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious

New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Hey there fellow podcast listener. It's Elena. And Ash, and we're taking you back to the days before streaming services.

Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse.

Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Join us. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episode. Slacy. Follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen early and add free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn,arn, darn, darn,arn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn,arn,arn, darn, d and now we're gonna move on to talking about John's interview. So John's interview has a few strange little tidbits in it. I find that so surprising. I'm shocked by that news. So one of the first things is that she completely contradicts her aunt's version of what happened. So, well, her aunt had said two things.

Did she? No, her aunt said, I woke up around 8.30, or I woke up at 8. I stayed in my bed for a little while. I got up around 8.30. The coffee went upstairs, was making the coffee, was doing the grinds. You heard someone.

I looked out the window, I saw the pajamas, like peeking over the grass, I set a prayer on my knees, I went straight to Jose and John's room, heard somebody in the shower, went back downstairs, I'm not really sure what she did down there, came back upstairs, knocked again, they woke up, right, if it did sleep. Okay, so now what does Jean say?

Now, Jean says that her aunt always goes outside to make, to see the weather because she's still adjusting to it, adjusting to Georgia weather. So according to her, she went outside, saw Tim, came inside, washed her face, and prayed because I guess she thought she was seeing things and went back out there and saw Tim. She said she came up stairs and knocked. I didn't hear her the first time. I heard her the second time because I was in the shower but I'm

not going to tell you that and it's also like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa she went outside she went out twice yeah because originally she didn't go outside at all. No she's are from the window like wait a second. And now she washed. Yeah. Because originally she didn't go outside at all. No. She's are from the window. Like wait a sec. And now she washed her face. Now she washed her face. So officer Christian says, right. And she says, woke up and she said, I need Jose. And I could just tell by the tone of her voice and her face it was bad. So he pulled on his shorts and he started

come because she's like, by the way, my 27 year old boyfriend was naked. It's like, okay, it's like we get it. We get it. Pulled on his shorts and he started coming down and he hollered at me, get your phone. I couldn't even tell you unless the security for the door if I came out the door or the basement, like it was just a whirlwind.

And then when I got out there, I stayed on the gravel because I didn't, because I could see see like it's still so surreal of her She was like that and I handed Jose my phone because I had 9-1-1 on the phone Handed him my phone and he touched her back which this isn't true because she was the first one on the phone I was I was literally just gonna say that already we're we're way now. And so he says, she says he touched her back because I was like, don't touch her. And he's like, we have to because he was on the phone. And he touched her and he said she's not breathing.

And then he went, I think he touched her on the leg to see if it would bend. And he said, rigor mortis has already said in. She's gone. And I think he said that on the phone. And then I was a hysterical. But he didn't say that on the phone. Like, what?

First of all, you dialed 911 and you talk to them. And you talk to them. It is, there's audio. Right. There's audio of her being the first person on the phone. And then you handed the phone to him. And then she handed the phone to him while they're already talking. And he doesn't say she's gone.

He says, I'm not completely sure. He never says she's gone. Also, you walk out there and you say don't touch her Yeah, like isn't that your friend you have no idea if she's dead or if she's just passed out Well, I wouldn't you touch her well, then she says I stayed on the gravel. It's like oh you didn't run to see if you're friend Yeah, not even like okay, maybe you weren't like friend friends, but your guest that was at your home Like she's your friend no matter what it's like you know this woman right. She's a mother of five kids that go to school with their kids like try to take care of her a little bit on. You like to her enough to have her at your

fucking party? For real. So then it gets even stranger. Remember when I originally told you that when she was found one of her wrists, her right wrist was above her head and out and the other one was down by her side. Yeah. And the risk that was up was the one that was broken and dislocated like it had stopped her fall. Yes. Well, Officer Christian then says, Do you remember, and this had become a point of contention, when you went out there, her arms were by her side? Both arms?

She says both arms were down by her side. Nope, wrong. Who moved her fucking arm then? Who made it look like she stopped her fall? Which one of you moved her arm to make it look like she fell? Because do you think that they did move her arm? I think they moved her arm. That's weird.

I think they moved her arm. And so she says both arms were down by her side and that's why I know it's those other two women that are saying it's because they said they spoke to the detectives and her arm was up here in this position to brace itself. It was not because that image is burned in my head because the best way I could freeze it, it almost looked like she face planted because I'm like I'd never imagined someone landing with that like her toes almost pointed. That's weird. So now it's like who moved her arm?

Right. Someone moved her arm so now I'm like Jose. Did you move her arm? But then if you could invent her leg, how did you move her arm? That's the other thing that I will get to later because that I was like whoa whoa whoa. So Rigor Mordus has not set in. Right. And that you broke it, which I doubt you did. Well, this is just me asking if you broke Rigor Mordus, would you break a bone? I doubt you did. Well, this is just me asking. If you broke regular mortis, would you break a bone? Not necessarily.

Okay. But so Officer Kristen says right. And she says, and her hands perfectly by her side. Like, and all my stuff is, and I'm like, Sean, what are you man? What did she say? Like, and all my stuff is based on law and order and CSI. So it's not a good reference point, but I was just shocked at how she was laying.

Okay, well, that's not a good reference point at all. You're correct. To not. Obviously, Christian just goes, uh-huh. He's like, I fucking hate when people bring that up. Yeah, he's probably like really though. So then, let me look and see what else I have in here. So this part really pissed me off.

Uh-oh. So, uh, officer Christian, they mentioned, you know, was she the only one that smoked weed? Right. And they were like, I've never tried. They were like, I have never done that. So she then, but instead of just saying, because it's like, okay, if none of you smoke weed, that's fine. No one's, there's no judgment anywhere. But it's also like, if none of you smoke weed, that's fine. Just be like, yeah, she was the only one. But it was fine.

They're making it a thing. Well, they make it worse. Oh, God. Because now I'm like, why are you trying to make her sound worse than she is? What is the one she's saying? She says, and this is also she's spreading a rumor. So it's like nice.

She says, but if you're getting me on record, so first she says, yeah, she was the only one smoking weed. But if you're getting me on record, so at first she says, yeah, she was the only one smoking weed But if you're getting me on record when you talk to other people Diane or whatever when she spoke with Paula This was not said to me. So just so you follow up. She asked Paula. Do you know she did coke or anything else? And Paula said not that I know of I don't even know that she was aware that she even did that So we want yeah, she doesn't make know that she was aware that she even did that. Wait, what? Yeah, she doesn't make any sense.

So, Officer Krishen goes, okay. Well, they didn't find any coconut systems. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Because she's trying to make her, she's trying to smear. Yeah, exactly. So then she says, so that's the only mention I heard of it, but to be honest, that made my head think.

That made my head think. Oftentimes I find things will make my head think. That made my head think. Often times I find things will make my head think. And that made you think is what you're saying. Yeah, it made my head think, you know? It sounds like something you're four-year-olds would say. I love when my head thinks it's great. Is that unusual for you? Well, this really made John's head think.

Think what? Because I'm like, well, she drank that much tequila and that's a depressant and pot is a depressant. But if you did that, you could drink tequila and still be, she always had that much energy. So I never thought anything of it. So now she's sitting there going. She's saying that she's regularly on code.

Now she's literally being like, well, she always has so much energy. So maybe she's on Coke all the time. Maybe she just fucking stops at Starbucks every day like everybody else. Well, an officer Kristen says, yeah. Is she like, can you go fuck yourself? And then she says, and I don't want to speak negative. And maybe she partied a little too much. Since when she has five kids. And before they had all said that she was saying to them Oh, it's so nice like please stay up because I don't often get it all time to do this right

So now all of a sudden she parties a little too much me mother has been probably listening to this like Oh, yeah, she really parties with those fucking cast roles that she leaves for us It's really easy to party with five kids But I don't know that she did that, but Diane did ask Paula that, and I don't know anything beyond that, because Paula got here late, that was the other one that got here late. So she's literally like, I don't know.

She's like, well, she said that I said that she said that this girl said that this other girl said that she said that we said. It's high school shit that she's being like, well, Paula told Diane that she did this, and then Diane told Stacey this and I feel like Stacey would tell me the truth. It's literally like no Stacey was late. So I don't even know if that's credible. So I don't even know. Now I'm gonna post the transcripts for all these interviews in our show notes so you guys can take a look at all of the stuff in it

because it's just so much to read. I mean, I was spending hours with... Only it has certain areas like highlighted, and they were scattered on the couch when I came over. I was like, are you good? Are you okay? My hair's out to here, and I'm just like, there's crumpled up notes in the trash can. I'm like, but bloodshot eyes. I'm like, I can't handle this case.

But there's like 10 interviews, and they're like 30 to 40 pages each. Well, they probably just don't make any sense. And it's just insanity. So then we get to the parts where for John is like acting like these officers are just her bros, they're just, we're just hanging out talking. Getting them some dice gift cards.

Just hanging out. So at one point, she'll be like, oh, and I have a picture of this from that night, like, because they took a lot of pictures of the night of the party. Yeah, everywhere. And she'll be like, oh, I took a picture of this and they're like, oh, can you send that to us?

Like, we need these pictures. Right. And she'll be like, okay, cool. What's your phone number? I don't have it saved in here. Like, hold on. Just give it to me one more time. I'm just gonna send it to you.

Like, she's very flirty. Right. It's like, I'm not giving you my number so that we can like late night chat. It seems like they're letting me. They're letting me. So that you can text me evidence. Thank you.

She literally is like, she says, I think I have you saved, but I don't have you saved. And then at one point she's like, look you're saved. And he's like, cool, can you send me that evidence for this fucking homicide I'm investigating? I'm like, simmer down. She's like, I'm gonna feast time you later.

What's your bit moji look like? The amount of like, thirstiness that is coming from this woman with these cops is like, she's like, wait, can you actually pose so I can set you a contact picker? Sure, I waited for that. Are you good? If I saw that happen in this transcript,

I would have been like, yeah, that makes sense. And then, because, again, interviews like this with the police are supposed to be like fairly professional, serious. And you're not supposed to have like outside people coming into them. You're not supposed to be talking to anyone on the phone while this is happening. No one outside of the interview should be hearing the interview. You don't say. Now, at one point while she's doing this whole like, okay, yeah, totally, I'll send this to you here. Look, you're saved. Like, huh, huh.

She says, so at one point, she says, because now I've got you saved. And then she says, um, hold on two seconds in office, a Kristen's like, sure. So she's on her phone, doing what talks to somebody on her phone. And this is what she says. Quote, um, can you go outside and wait for baby mama and get my kids belongings from her? So she doesn't come in the house. She's on her way. That's my ex-husband's baby mama. What? What? What? What? What? I like I can you go outside and wait for baby mama.

Like you're in the middle of talking about your friend who tragically died and they're trying to find out what happened to her. Well, and then you're being extremely rude about this other woman. So you just clearly suck as a person. Like go wait for baby mama. I don't want baby mama inside. What? And then it's like you're in an interview. You can't have other people here. She's what's happening in an interview. She's

yucky. Like what? I just I cannot I I mean I don't know John but from what I've seen, John and I would not be friends. We're not begetting along. I don't like John. I don't like what? I don't like our whole situation. No. I don't like how she talks. I don't like how she bribes police. I don't like how she presents herself. And maybe this is not who John is, but damn, John, you better get a PR person because

you come in off real bad. Real bad, John. So in the beginning of the whole thing, the cops do say, they say, Jean, of course, we're here to talk about the incident that took place Saturday night, Sunday morning with your friend, Tam. Let's address one thing real quick before we get there. You were, you came into the room when we were talking with Madeline. You can't do that. And we appreciate the fact that you were going to get a gift card, but we cannot accept them. And it would just make things look weird if we did.

Yeah. Which it's like sure it would. And she probably was like, oh, my. It's even weirder that you guys are talking about it like this. Like it's this whole thing is weird. And the fact that you're having to sit there going, it would make it look weird.

Why would it make it look weird, officer? Well, it just made it weird that you did that. The whole thing is weird. And the fact that you're having to sit there going, it would make it look weird. Why would it make it look weird, officer? Well, it just made it weird that you did. The whole thing is weird. It's weird. She felt confident doing that for you. Right. And it's weird. This whole thing is weird. So it's weird that you didn't say that to her right away. Yeah. It's just very, I think it's like they thought about it or someone told them and was like, yeah, you put a make that right. Yeah. You better go on record real quick. Real fast. You didn't take that dial latte. And she says, I understand what you're saying. And he said, which

it's like, okay, I get it. A little strange wording. It's like before. And I might be looking, I might be looking too far into this when I totally could be. To me, it just seems like you would say like, I totally understand that makes so much sense. Like, I wasn't thinking. She's like, I get what you're saying because what you're really saying is like, thanks for the gift card, but like, on record, I have to be like,

I don't take it. It's literally like, I understand what you are saying. Yeah. It's like when somebody's like, don't mention that that happened. And you're like, what happened? Yeah, exactly. And he says, thank you for the thought,

but we cannot accept. And she says, my kids will take them, okay. And it's like, okay, make sure baby mama doesn't get them. Make sure baby mama doesn't get them. You fucked up individual. So again, I'm gonna post these in the show notes so you can read, you know,

the rest of the little tidbits in here. But basically, John's is just a mess of contradictions to the first stories that everyone told, including Madeline's. Yeah. It's also a contradiction to her own stories saying that she just handed the phone to Jose when she, in fact, talked to the 911 operator and we have audio of it. Basically, she's lying through her teeth. There's also that weird, flirty energy, which this is just me, that's what I'm perceiving it to look like. It looked to me, it looks like she's being very inappropriate

with these officers. I agree. And there's a murder investigation right now. Like I'm using the word flirty to me, it looks flirty. It's definitely inappropriate. Yes. No matter what this behavior in this situation is inappropriate. Yeah.

And people are crossing lines. People are not being professional. There is not be, there's not care being taken in this case to keep things where they should be. Sure. It was. I mean, if this is how they're handling the interviews and letting people pop in, pop out, bring in gift cards, chat about whatever.

Sit there and chat about, oh, you're saved. Why are you having me? Why are you having me? I'll have you have some interviews in the kitchen or like in the house in the middle of it. Right. I mean, this is very unprofessional, very flim-flammy. It's not at all seeming like they're taking this seriously.

And it's making me say, okay, so what happened at a crime scene? Yeah, seriously. That crime scene definitely wasn't taken seriously. If you can't even handle the interviews that are on record, I mean, I have transcripts of you guys being douche nozzles. It's like, you can't imagine how you handled the crime scene. Even the autopsy wasn't handled properly.

Remember, you said there was no picture. Not handled properly is a very nice way of putting it. And not taking photos during a fucking autopsy is my head exploded. Yeah, I'm just at a loss for that. Okay, so I need to know more. What else? What else? So now let's head over to Jose Barraira's

interview. Okay. So Jose also had some things to say about how Tam was found. Okay. Which are very contradictory to the crime scene. That was bad. I believe I have not seen photos of the crime scene. They probably didn't even take out who knows if they even took them. But I'm assuming they did. I would assume they take photos of not topsi too. So like here I am, like would they go on my face? You know what they say about assuming it's definitely making an ass of me here because I'm assuming they're doing oh, I don't know police work, but I guess I'm just crazy, but so I would I have not seen photos of the scene. I have seen a sketch that they did at the scene of what they were looking at.

Mm-hmm. And in that sketch, there's a stick figure with one hand above her head and one by her side. And everything else in all the reports done at that scene, that is how she is described. Now officer Christian says to Jose Barra, somebody moved her arm because you told me previously that both arms were like by her side. So Jose says, correct. And he says, do you know who moved her arm? And Jose says, I have no clue.

When I was on the phone with 911 and I checked, I'd gone back inside the house. And I stayed on the phone with them until Cory Miller got there, who was the supervisor, the law enforcement supervisor. I walked him through out to the back deck and obviously showed him what we saw. And he told me to stay upstairs him through out to the back deck and obviously showed him what we saw and he told me to stay upstairs like up on the back deck and that's the last time I ever saw her.

So according to Jose, he's saying again, her hands were by her side. No one's festing up to moving her arm, but that's how she was found. Who moved her arm? And also now I'm like, okay, if you're all saying you didn't move her arm, but that's how she was found. Who moved her arm? And also now I'm like, okay, if you're all saying you didn't move her arm. Does she move her arm? She's still fucking alive and did she move her arm up above the arm? To try to maybe get up I guess. But then I look at, if we're talking about stiff legs and I couldn't bend her knee, she wouldn't have been able to move her arm.

No, she was dead. She was in some form or something. And it's like, so who moved her fucking arm? What if you moved her arm? I think I have an idea, but I'm not going to say it just because it's like, you know, because I'm going to be careful. And honestly, this whole party is very sous-happy. So I'm going to stay.

Somebody should sue this whole fucking party. I'm going to stay real far away from being sued by all these random football moms. So I can't. The fact that I just I don't even want to. So but the fact of the matter is here. The arm was moved. Someone moved a arm.

That's just fact. Well, if Jose says that he went in to go get the investigator, then only John and Madeline would have been madeline. Well, who knows at this point if some of the other people had shown up that they call back And then it's like did the investigators move her? Did someone move her arm to make it look like she fell more like to make it more look like she whoops She fell see she put her arm out to try to stop her. I don't know, I mean, maybe. Because to me, the arms by the side indicate to me that she was thrown over that balcony unconscious or dead and made to look like she fell.

Right. If your arm is above your head and broken, you're alive like you were alive and conscious and fell whoopsy daisy and you put your arm out to try to stop you. But it's also weird to me that it would only be one arm because you would think that you'd have both at least or at least one of them a little more raised. What would happen was probably in the air you're gonna make some motion to turn. Yeah.

To try to like, you know, try to alleviate some of whatever's coming to you. And so you're probably gonna to land harder on one side, and you're going to put that arm out to try to stop yourself. The other arm could have just flopped to our side. But the reality, the situation here, is if these people are saying that she was found with both hands at her sides, to me, that indicates that she was thrown over that balcony, either unconscious or dead. And that somebody tried to make it look like she was thrown over that balcony, either unconscious or dead. Right.

And that somebody tried to make it look like she was not unconscious or dead and that she fell. I agree. And this whole thing where I mentioned earlier that they're talking about how maybe she tripped over that little lip and the thing and she just fell face down because she had some kind of seizure or something. Yeah.

You're not gonna break your wrist and dislocate it by falling boop like right there. Well, you get like, oh, didn't you have like a severed vertebrae or a fractured vertebrae? Yeah, C2, a broken C2 vertebrae. And you wouldn't have get that, you wouldn't get that from tripping. I mean, you, I guess.

Because of the brunt force on our chin, maybe. Getting your chin, I guess if you really went dead weight, I guess, and a tall person maybe, that would work. I'm not positive. I mean, that's a very... That's a lot of force, that's the thing. It's a lot of force to put on there. And the other part of that is,

if you are falling because you're having a seizure or some kind of medical situation, you're not gonna put your hands out. Right, because you don't know that. So why is that arm like that? Because somebody missed it. Because someone is making it look like she fell and was alive or conscious when she did and in reality, she was not.

She did not hit that to me. She didn't hit that lawn conscious or alive. No. It's just not, I don't see. It's just not the case. I think somebody, and now I'm starting to sit there and go, well wait, if all of you, I mean, who knows if it was somebody at the party who moved the arm,

and they're all just being like, oh no, no, they're making a mess to get her. Or was it the police trying to be like, let's just close this shit? Somebody looking at this and being like, let's just make sure this case gets closed. Because to me, not taking photos at the autopsy, all that shit, that to me looks like someone's trying

to make it so this case gets closed real fast real fast real fast so that would be an easy way to do it put her head and above her head she fell she fell see she tried to stop herself case closed so then we had mentioned before that you know the whole thing was that Jose and John were woken out of dead sleep to come outside and whoops, there's Tim. And it's like, who is showering? So, and then we heard earlier, Jose mentioned that he was cleaning up.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, when were you cleaning up? Right. Like, what? Were you cleaning up while you were waiting for someone to come while somebody lay dead in your backyard? I doubt. Are you cleaning up a murder scene? Well, and so Officer Christian says, what else did you do that morning?

I think we talked about some cigarettes. Mm-hmm. And Jose says, right, so when I initially went out there to, uh, to see what was going on and there was a loose cigarette and a lighter laying on the back deck and being as OCD as I am, I walked out there. It was just kind of in my past. The door to the railing when I looked out and I just, I mean, like if I'm coming through the doorway and we're in here, like it would be like a cigarette and a lighter laying right there. What? And Officer Christians like, uh-huh. He's like, okay. And he says, he says, I mean, I walked up,

sat it on the fire pit and just kept walking. And so Officer Christians says, okay, so you had actually did that before you saw Tam. And he says, correct. And Officer, Christian says, before you saw Tamler or anything, like you cleaned, and quickly. Yeah.

And Jose says, oh yeah, I wouldn't have moved anything. If I knew I was about what I was about to walk out on. Or would you have? And it's like, you knew what you were going to walk in on. So wait, like what? So it's like, okay, so you're telling me that Madeline first of all woke you out of a dead sleep, which I don't believe.

Someone was awake in that room, and you had already claimed that you were cleaning up that morning, so like, bobboo, but now you're telling me that when she came into your room and said, your friend from the islands is laying face down in the backyard and not moving. Yeah. You're casually walking out onto the deck to look and you're like, oh, I'm I'm OCD, which I like how he's just like casually like you know my OCD And it's like you don't know what fucking OCD is. That's not what OCD is not all about it

That's just you're just like ridiculous. Exactly. And it's like I love that my OCD Because you picked something up off the floor. That's not a CD. How compulsive of you. Jesus So he's like I just walked out and I saw a light harness cigarette and I moved it out of my way. You know those obsessive compulsions I have for cleaning up cigarettes. Before I decided to look and see the person who was lying not moving in my backyard.

Like what? He's like, I mean, Madeline did seem real upset, but that cigarette was in my way. But that cigarette and that lighter man, it was mum and me out where it was sitting. It's, it's just too much. It's too much for me. In this one and again, I'm gonna post this one too. It's just him going through everything, but it's again, more contradictions. It's more contradictions. It's more things that don't make sense. It's more stories being changed as more things come out or as people are talking here. When that's a number one sign, that something has gone very, very wrong.

Is that you're changing your story? Yeah. There's just, it's just too much for me. So the last person to supposedly talk to, to Tamela was Bridget. Right, because her husband and her daughter up in the morning. Exactly. At 147 I believe 145, 147 am. Her husband went to pick her up. That was when Tamela was apparently having a bull agumbo and was like one of the last ones awake. And she, you know, they were talking, she walked her to the door. Apparently she gave Bridget a big hug

and a kiss on the cheek according to her. And was like, you're a really great woman. And like, you're awesome. Like, I'm glad we met. Like, so sweet. Because, you know, Tamela was such a bad person obviously. Yeah, so obviously. It's very clear that she's just such a part of her.

She seemed like so warm and sweet She just seems sweet and she's eating a bowl of gumbo and so in Bridget said, you know, she said goodbye She told her get your ass back in there and eat your bowl of gumbo and that was the last time she saw for her Well, Bridget's oh come on I know you have one person Bridget's interview and this is the last interview I'll like talk about because the other ones are just weird. She's just all over the place. Well that seems to be a running theme. Like she's all over the place. Let me just read you a couple of things that she says when they ask her a very simple question. Well the other thing is you have to remember

most of these women were drunk. So it's like, oh yeah, they were at least drinking. Right. I mean, it's, she, and it's, I think it's just the way she answers these questions that you're just like, are you okay, sir? Well, I don't know. What's going on? So one of the things that Bridget really wants us all to know, over and over and over again, is she is the mother hen of this group of women. Okay, mom. Don't you forget it, because she's the mother hen of this group of women. Okay, mom. Don't you forget it, because she's gonna tell you every other line.

Officer, just, I'm the mother hen. I don't know if you know this, but I'm the mother hen. I take care of every, I'm the mother hen. I don't get into any trouble, because I'm the mother fucking hen. Like, she is literally like- I like God. I'm thinking of that cached song. I'm the mother fucking, but she's like,

hen hen hen. This is that Kesha song. I'm the mother fucking, but she's like, Hey, hey. This is that's Bridget. Oh God. She's gonna let you know that she is responsible. She's always working. She would never be caught up in a murder scene. She would never do anything. I'm a mom.

And I'm against a head. I am not, I'm not gonna accuse anyone of anything. I'm just saying Bridget Calm down. She be mom and calm down. Bridget be mom henon. So in one point she's talking about you know She's talking about the alcohol and how she has a very serious view on like how much alcohol was happening here And she's very like, you know, I don't drink a lot alcohol because I'm the mother hen. So she says, you know, God forbid, you know, women can put away, you know, that alcohol, and you know, some people, they put away the wine and everything. I'm kind of your, I'm kind of your mother hen whenever I'm at a party. And my very first priority is children. Granted, there were no children at the children.

And she said that, that's the quote. She's like, you know, my first priority was the kids that were not there. Like, points. And you can tell the officers like, uh-huh. Okay. Because she's literally like, my first priority here is the kids that were not in attendance.

I realize there were no kids here this time, but I was all about the kids. And he's like, okay. And he goes, uh-huh. And she says, he's like, do you need some blue for that picture that you're trying to paint me? Like, okay. And she says, but for the weekend before this, there was kids there. He's like, yeah, we're not talking about that weekend act, true. No, a question is pertaining to this information. What, he literally asked, like, so did she drink tequila and she's like, yeah, I'm telling you about women

and alcohol and it's like last weekend. And then let me go to last weekend and he's like, what now? I literally don't give a single shit about last weekend. Now the week before this was a Halloween party. They had a John's house where the kids all like but were there. Tamala there. Tamala was there with her family. Oh my god the weekend before. Exactly. And so they were there. They had like a nice time. Everything was good. So she says but the weekend before there was I've been a nanny for nine years and just not with my just not with my own kids. Right because you don't nanny your own children. You with my own kids. Right. Because he says- And he says- And he says- And he says-

And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says-

And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says-

And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- And he says- you know, and it's like, stop flipping your head around, you're gonna knock your head into the damn wall. I'm not doing any ER things for you, stopping stupid. What? What? He's like, so what happened last weekend? I'm a mother-hand, but I don't fucking dabble in those ER things.

It is, his response, now he just asked her, was there to kill us? And this is true, and he just asked her was there to kill what the Mrs. Turtle and he just goes right. And she says I've like, can we answer the question I just fucking ask you. She says and I think there was that was one of the things that Tam's liked so much about me. As even though I had a couple drinks, I still kept my faculties

about me. She says that a lot too. Her faculties were in a fucking check that night. I've never even heard anybody say that before. She still kept her faculties about me. You know, if I was a child went missing, then I'm like, huh, I saw that kid recently. Where's he at? It's just in bread. What?

The fuck is she talking about? It's just in bread? And then she goes, so they were drinking. Wow, that was a really fucking long way to get to that answer. Yeah, like they were literally like, so was they're drinking at this time? And she's like, well, I don't do the ER shit and the pumpkin party was great and the tequila, you know,

and like Tam really loved me and, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm mother-hand, mother-hand, mother-hand, but yes, they're a strength. It's like, was they're drinking there? And she's like, well, I'm a mother-hand, I don't do that shit, I take care of everybody, I'm always gonna, I, mother-hand, mother-hand, mother-hand, but yes, they're restraining me. It's like, was there drinking there? And she's like, well, I'm a mother-hand. I don't do that shit. I take care of everybody. I'm always on my shit.

I'm always looking out for the kids. I know there was some kids there then. But there was kids there the night before, because the weekend before, there was a Halloween party, and there were kids there. I don't nanny my own kids, though, because I have kids, but every other kid trusts me implicitly.

And that night, I had my faculties about me, because if a kid went missing, that wasn't there because there was no kids there at that party That night, but if a kid went missing I would be like I saw that kid recently. Where is that kid? It's just in bread. I mean yeah, they were drinking that night because I'm a mother-hand and I've got faculties Whoa, he was like I need a break and his response is yeah, right Right, right, yeah, so she Like what? So she, and she keeps saying, I was very coherent. I'm very coherent.

And then she says, in case of emergency, I'm always a coherent. I've always got my faculties about me. What it looks to me is that Bridget is very stressed all the time. And she's always like a fucking emergency is a foot at all times. And I need to have my faculties about me.

Okay. In fact, so after she says all that, he says, right. And she says, so I mean, it still kept me coherent for in case of emergency if something happens. Which it did. And also to me, I'm like, what? Calm down on the emergency talk for that night because you're making it look like, well, I, just in case, just in case an emergency happened I was all about it because I was really prepared for the to be an emergency because something was happening honey

There was an emergency that happened so like maybe calm down about that like maybe stop making it seem like you knew an emergency Was happening like I calm down. Yeah, you're making yourself look bad here and he just says sure and she says I got my faculties about me No, shut the fuck up. She literally says it again. Oh my God. And he goes, I need to see a picture of Bridget. And he's like, uh-huh. He's like, you mentioned that. And then he says, she says, I'm a protective person.

I don't care about a whole lot of people, but the ones I care about, I want to take good care of. Okay. And he's like, uh-huh. And she goes, that was the second time that I've met Tam. The first time was the weekend before for the pumpkin carving. You remember that? I do, with thehuh, and she goes, that was the second time that I've met Tam, the first time was the weekend before

for the pumpkin carving, you remember that one? I do, with the children, in your faculties. Okay, and she goes, her kids thought it was awesome because I got to use power tools, I got a sol-sol. Shut the fuck up. Well, and again, he asked her, were they drinking that night? This is still that question.

Oh, he hasn't even asked another question yet. This is still that question. Oh, he hasn't even asked another question. He hasn't asked another question yet. This is still her talking about where they drinking that night. Now, her last thing was the her Tam's kids thought I was awesome because I used to saw Zal and he goes, yeah, and she goes, go in on top with that Zal Zal and get that lid off, then stick the thing in with the drill and it goes and all the guts, you know? And he goes, yeah. And she goes, so it's super easy for them to cut them out or scoop them out. It's all about efficiency and I like power tools.

So, you know, they all thought that I was just like the cats me out because I would go out there and do these things. But kids have been my life. And Tim was very appreciative. I can't tell you how many times that one and grab me and goes, I love you. You're like incredible. Can we take, can we take you home for a while because I'm a neat freak too That is a straight quote That's a straight quote

If you got to just seen a later, do that. She still goes. He says, yeah. And she says, I mean, I'm OCD. I'm a super meat freak. Oh, we got another one. We got another one. I don't like to leave anybody's house in a mess.

I will not leave till I have swept that floor up. Ha ha ha ha ha. And he just goes, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And she says, make sure the dishes are in. I'm that perfect friend. I mean, I'm not boasting or anything,

but I'm that perfect friend. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Am I so pretty? Like, yo. I'm literally gonna get the hiccups. Are you good? Bridget popped about five out of cross before this fucking interview. All of those are one direct quotes. And two,

you're early off of the question, was there drinking that night? I can't stop. That is how I thought I would never give her a power tool. I would never give her a power tool. I wanna give her like a weighted blanket. She needs to, oh my God. And that's really all I'll read for Bridget. No, read more. Everything. I think we should have like a Patreon bonus episode.

We just read Bridget's interview. We just read Bridget's interview. I do the Duchess. I do the Duchess. I'm the perfect friend. Not that I'm boasting. Not that I'm boasting, but I'm that perfect friend. Whoa. Okay. Oh my god. So not a lot of information comes out of her interview. No.

Well, a lot of information comes out of it, but nothing you can use. And how many questions did they get to ask her, like, two? I think they asked her, like, a total of four questions in the pay. I think it's, like, 45 pages. Wow. But I thought that, I also thought Bridget's interview would kind of bring everybody a little levity here because this is a very hard subject so Bridget's interview is kind of a fun. Yeah, we need it was a palette cleanser. It's a very nice palette cleanser It's a departure from the the really heavy shit that's going on

I wish that had been a video because it had you seen a Linus face and like movements and just overall performance of Bridget's interview? Wow. Yeah and for what I wrote in my in my notes for Bridget, it's just Bridget is strange as fuck. That's all I got to say. I mean like do you Bridget? I'm maybe Bridget, Bridget is just Bridget. There's just who she is as a person. She's not close to a lot of people. She told us that when they asked her, did anybody drink? a person. She's not close to a lot of people. She told us that when they asked her, did anybody drink? She told us she's not close to a lot of people, but the people she's close to, she takes care of mother fuckers.

You know, it sounds like, I don't even know what it sounds like. Maybe that's just who Bridget is, but it's also maybe Bridget was very nervous in that interview. That's how she reacts. Bridget was hopped up on something for that interview. She was having a lot of moments. So those are the interviews that I just wanted to touch upon. I'm going to post the transcripts in our show notes so you can read them for yourself because who boy? And that will reel it back in.

We'll reel it back in now. One of the main things that was a huge issue with this case, is there was no media coverage of it. Well, none. I wanna say why, but you know. It's no media coverage until about mid-December. And that's when Tamla's best friend, Michelle Graves, was like, you guys botched this shit. Like, she was like, no. And this was in October, yeah.

Yeah, this happened in October. So mid-December, Michelle Graves was like, what the heck? Are we gonna hear about that crazy, essentially homicide because of the case? Because the case was just closed. Right. That was it, just closed.

And Michelle was still very outspoken. She still is to this day like, go Michelle. She was very outspoken about the fact that she was like, you know what, all of these people at the party were giving all Tamless friends and family very conflicting and ever-changing stories about what happened. Well, they were also giving police ever-changing conflicting stories. That's the thing. Like one, you know, and according to everybody at the party,

according to like Jose and Jean and maybe Bridget, I don't know. I don't know what Bridget said. That is valuable. I have not looked up more Bridget, I don't know. I don't know what Bridget said. That is valuable. I have not looked at more Bridget's shit. But they all say that the reason that Michelle is seeing it, like, you know, the stories keep changing about what could have happened was because they keep saying that, you know, initially we didn't know what happened

and we were told she probably fell. So we just told you guys, you know, she fell from the balcony, but then when we learn more stuff, we change start story. And it's like, no, you don't she fell from the van, but then when we learn more stuff, we change start story. And it's like, no. You don't change your story, though. You just say what happened that day from your point of view. Yeah, and it's also like, this isn't a story.

None of you know what happened. No one knows what happened. Like, we're supposed to know. Somebody does. And it's like, so you're sitting there changing stories, but you don't know what happened. So like, why? You're just changing your tail to fit to the events.

You're talking to each other. You're hearing you're talking to each other. You're seeing what makes the most sense and you're sticking to that one until that one doesn't make sense and then you're going to another one. Right. At least that's what it looks like. So then court record show that a temporary protective order was put against put by Jean against Michelle. And it was dismissed. Because it's like really. And this was in November. So the month after this. Like right after this. Pamela passed away. John put it tried to get a protective order against Michelle. And it was dismissed. Because they were like, yeah, no. Yeah. And Michelle and Tamla's family and friends think that that was an intimidation tactic to be like you stop talking

Because this is what we're gonna do. That's fucked up. She was also sent a cease and assist to stop talking They wanted her to stop questioning things and that's what this was. Yeah, that's fucked up It looks like intimidation to be like you keep talking. We're gonna keep doing this. Mm-hmm That's what it looks like to me again I'm not accusing anybody because don't save my motherfuckers. But I'm just saying, doesn't look good. No, it definitely doesn't look good.

It looks like intimidation to me. That's just what it looks like. So Jose Barrera, now remember, he worked for the county in the courts. He works on law enforcement. He was placed on administrative leave from his job on December 17th 2018. So not very long after this. He was put on administrative leave for, quote,

investigation pertaining to you using your position to access confidential files on a current investigation surrounding a death in which you were a witness. Okay, so what that means is that he was at his work using his fucking, like law capabilities to look at documents that involved him. Oh yeah, well two days later on December 20th, he was fired based on, quote, loss of confidence in the department. So the department was like,

you lost confidence in your ability to do your job correctly. Because what did he do? He was screaming on the department. So the time was like he lost confidence in your ability to do your job correctly. Because what did he do? He was screaming on the low. He illegally accessed confidential files relating to the death of Tantlow Horseford shocking. On November 7th, days after she had died, he went into her incident file report file. November 7th, days after he accessed her incident report file. Now was he able to change anything or could he just look at that? No, but he was just looking at this information and to me this looks really guilty. Yeah, because it's like sure We can say curiosity. Maybe you just wanted to see what was happening But there's the other side of the coin where you can say were you trying to see what they were what they have against you?

So that you could change your story to better fit what they were thinking was happening. Right. And then he also looked into it again on November 20th and a few days later he accessed the file that was about the restraining order that John had tried to take out on Michelle. Wow. So no matter what he was doing whether it was curiosity or just poor judgment, it was bad. But that's bad. You know, as it, like you would think that he would know that.

Yeah, you can't use your power that way. Right. You can't use your power just to look into shit. And especially, you're involved in investigation where you are a witness. Right. Like your girlfriend's house, which is why he was fired.

Good. Now before this, Jose Barrera had worked as a probation officer, like I said, in Hall County from March to November of 2017. He also worked as an officer with the coming field office of the Department of Community Supervision. Why didn't he work at these places anymore? Why was he working at the courts now? He probably got fired. He was fired from these two places initially in October 2016.

He was fired from the coming field office of the Department of Community Supervision. He said it was a disagreement over a relationship with a coworker, but strange that this dude can't hold down a job and law enforcement when you can basically do anything and keep a job in law enforcement. He was gonna say, as I think we have all said. Have you ever heard of the LAPD? Yeah, so it's like ever heard of them? It's real hard to get fired from a job in law enforcement and this dude has been fired twice. Yeah. So only a month later, this case was closed.

Accident, that's it. Nope wrong. Oops, that sucks. So here's what's wrong. We're just gonna go over a couple of things just to end this out. There's a lot wrong. Yeah, the video. So like I said, Jose said we have a video camera on that deck. It will capture everything. And she said that too, Jean. Yep. They were both like we can do this. They implicitly said that they have it. When they look when you look at the photo of the law, so they have a photo, That's like part of the investigation.

It's a photo of a screen that shows all the logged video videos for that particular video camera. Yeah. And there are no videos for the day of or the days surrounding the incident than there are videos for every other day. Oh, that's so coincidental. Yeah. So it's like, huh.

Weird that it just, no videos for that day. You're not just like malfunctioned like that. So weird. And so there's like huh weird that it just no videos for that Dude that that just like malfunctioned like that so weird and so there's also an email and there's a picture of this email two officer Christian Here's your Dunkin Donuts Jean or Jean sorry Jean From Jean who refers to him as Mike in the email. He's like, hey Mike, like what up? BTW still added in my contact.

And she says, so weird. I must have deleted the video from that day. Like you wouldn't think twice about that? So, what? Like, I accidentally deleted the video of that day that somebody died on my property. It's so weird. Weird.

Like, what? She just says it like, oh, I must have deleted it. Whoops. And then she says, I'm not tech savvy, so I don't know if we can get it back. But like, here's my password and my username for my account. See, look how helpful I am. And that's the thing. It's like, they are very good at seeming helpful, but not being helpful at all.

But deleting prominent evidence. To a lot of people, you'd be like, well, they gave the password and the username to go look at the account. Yeah, after they deleted evidence. After they deleted the video. Like, that's not helpful. It's like, come on. But also, I am a big believer that nothing is gone forever. I feel like it's somewhere. Where's the video? It's got to be somewhere. Let's go to the cloud. I am a big believer that nothing is gone forever.

I feel like it's somewhere. Where's the video? It's gotta be somewhere. Let's go to the cloud. Well then when they had witnesses on the stand telling their stories, like giving their statements, one witness from the party used to the phrase, well we left before it went down. What went down? Went down?

Yeah, that's a real poor choice of words, by the way. Went down? What? Like, if I had no fucking clue what happened in this woman, I'd be like, well, we left before this tragedy occurred, whatever occurred, we left before it happened. We left before it went down? That sounds like a fight.

That sounds like they were planning something and we left before that went down. Yeah, yup, that's exactly what that sounds like. What the fuck? And then of course there's the arms which we've talked about like at length. That to me is just not okay. And then let's get quickly to the rigor mortis thing. Okay, yeah, I knew you were going to say something about that.

So Jose said he couldn't bend her leg. She was totally stiff. Right. That's what he said. Well, it was cold that evening and it was in November Temperature affects rigor mortis and it slows it down. Oh, it does. Yes. He will speed it up Cold is slows the onset. That's so interesting. You would think in your mind if you didn't know anything like me That it would be the opposite because it kind of preserves you a little more. So it slows decontent I guess that does make which slows all the processes of death.

Okay. Now, if they couldn't move her leg, then she was in somewhere between moderate to complete rigor, if they couldn't move it or bend it. But it couldn't be complete rigor, because initially, they said they found her with her arms by her sides, but when she was discovered by investigators,

her arm was up. Crime scene sketch shows that her broken wrist arm was pointed up and away from her body. So someone moved moved her and I dealt they broke rigor to do so it's a possibility but probably not so I'm gonna go with moderate to advanced rigor mortise stage which is where she was found in somewhere within eight hours is when the body is still able to be manipulated with at least some force yeah but it's still really starting to stiffen, which seems to me where she was if he was able, somebody was able to move her arm,

because it's still being able to be manipulated, but very stiff. Right. I would say she's obviously within that, because if she was last seen between 1 1 30, somewhere in there, maybe even 2, but claiming to be noted as going to the porch with that app around

1.5 a.m. and found as early as 8.30, that's only 6 to 6.5 hours. So now the thing is again, rigor slows in cold temps and it was freezing that evening. So she wouldn't have been in a band. So cold temps, it can take between three to six hours for it to appear. For to appear. Not even in the advanced mode. And that's just beginning to appear. So that would put us at a very minimal rigor stage by the time she was found, which makes the assertion that she was totally stiff and unbendable, not probable,

and not likely. And the fact that her arm was moved above her head after that is even more concerning to me. Right. To me, she died earlier. Way earlier. She died earlier than that one thirty to a clock hour. I think she was she was either unconscious or died before that. Which means that Bridget probably was there. Uh-huh. And that's why Bridget was so nervous and her fucking interview. Exactly. Because now we're putting it more close to, you know, seven, eight hours if we're moving it a little earlier,

which is putting her more in that rigor stage where you can't bend her leg. Yeah, because again, it slows it down. So we need a few extra hours on there to get to that stage and we don't have those hours in there. Or who knows if he even tried to move her leg? You don't even know that. We have no idea. So it's like, maybe he just said he did that to be like, yeah, she's been dead out here for a while. Like must happen, must not. Yeah, but he had her leg. Now, there was a second independent autopsy.

And that one, according to her father, shows that her some of her injuries were inflicted post mortem. Oh, which to me is a toss off the deck. Right. To make it look like she fell. And she got some of those injuries when toss off the deck. Right. To make it look like she fell and she got some of those injuries when she hit the ground. Were pictures taken during that one? I don't know if they're I'm assuming they were, but I think because now I mean the good news

is now this case has been reopened. Good. And there was again no blood that pulled around any of her injuries on the ground. Because her blood flow already stopped when she had been tossed over. And apparently there was blood on her sleeve, but none of it on the ground or anywhere, so it either just stopped bleeding when she, like that, it didn't happen. Right. It must have happened before she was hitting the ground. Right.

Which is like where did she stop bleeding before she hit the ground? Well, she had that laceration on her wrist. Uh-huh. And she had blood all over. She had lacerations on her face and shit. Right. Like where's the blood? Now, well, he was cleaning that morning. This is awesome. So June 5th, 2020. So very recently. Oh, that was literally like a few weeks ago.

A couple weeks ago. The family lawyer, Tammo's family lawyer, Ralph Fernandez, dropped a bomb of a letter. Let me hear it. He dropped it publicly. I won't read the whole thing. I'm just gonna read the really awesome parts. So he wrote this to Tamla's family.

Okay. And he was basically telling them like, fuck this homicide happened. Like he's like, literally. So he says, the review reflects that a homicide is a strong possibility. Witness statements are in conflict. A potential subject handled the body as well as the evidence prior to the law enforcement arrival.

Evidence was disposed of and no inquiry followed. The scene was not preserved. Evidence was inappropriately handled. The investigation was compromised by unauthorized access and disclosure to potential targets and witnesses. A remarkable fact is that there were no photographs taken during the autopsy of Tamla's body. This had to have been done at someone's directive because such a practice is unheard of. Oh shit. So he is saying exactly what I'm saying that. Someone intentionally said,

Do not take fucking photos of this autopsy. Right. Because that is not a thing. There is no precedent for it. It does not happen. Right, you don't just forget. This is not one of those things. Oh yeah, we don't do that.

No. Across the board, no. Right. That is the weirdest part of this case. He also said, It appears Tamla was involved in a struggle. There were Brazians noted consistent with that scenario. There were There were parallel scratches on one arm since they were fresh photos would have proven recent use of defensive force

But having no photos Ingers are dead to our detriment. There was one X-ray, yet the injury noted as the cause of death appears nowhere. The town of coming has a history, which raises eyebrows. After conducting my extensive review, I have come to the conclusion that the truth never had a chance here. Oh my god. And then he ends it by saying, here we are fighting an uphill battle because those who wear the badges when we're entrusted with the investigative task failed you.

But this is not over. It will never be over. Be safe, be strong. We will get to the bottom of this. Well, that was almost like in like one of those anonymous things that they put out. Fuckin' A. I was like, well, Fernandez. Damn.

The mic at the end, he was like, fuck this. We're gonna get the bottom. We're getting justice. And literally the entire world was like, fuck yeah, you are. Yeah. Like, I believe in him. I'm like, yes, Rob. I wanna know what happened.

And I feel like these people will not be hard to crack once the pressure's on. The problem is that the pressure was never on. Exactly. There was no fucking pressure. Exactly. Once that pressure, once it starts getting a little hotter in there, they're going to be like, people are going to turn on each other. Oh, hell yeah.

Like the football moms are going to be like, well, she did it and then it's going to be like, well, she did it. And then Jose is going to say some shit. You think that fish shit. Yeah. If you put, because it's exactly what you said, there was not one ounce of pressure. Because office or Christian just sitting there going, right, you know, Mike's just sitting there hanging out with little chit chat and everybody's just casual as fuck. Any other office or even a Bridget's interview, any other office or like, I'm sorry, I watch like crime shit

all the time would have been like, okay, that's not the question I asked you. Let's get back to the question and they would have been like fucking annoyed. Like it's one thing to allow someone to go on a tangent to see if they like accidentally Say something, but then it's like let's bring them back But you have to like somehow angle them back like let's Corral them in because she's going off on like power tools and shit and you're like what she's talking about Halloween

It's like it's almost Christmas lady. Well, there was a petition petition on Almost Christmas lady. Well, there was a petition petition on change.org that was wanting this case reopened and it had last I checked, which was probably two weeks ago. 586,000 people had signed it. Awesome. And this was like just put on there recently. June 18th. So very recently. A couple days ago. It was reported that Forsyth County Sheriff Ron Freeman sent a letter to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is where her body was sent initially, asking that they reopen the case. Hell yeah. He said, and I quote, the sheriff said, quote, renewed requests for re-examination are best served by an independent law enforcement agency to review previous findings and to

search and act on any new evidence which may come to light. Your agents will have complete access to my department and deputies as well as my full cooperation. Good. Now that's all well and fine. Is he a new sheriff or is he not there? I don't think he was there for this. So Officer Freeman, you better be telling the motherfucking truth about that. Like that's what, but I'm like, okay.

Yeah, I hope we do have your full fucking cooperation. We'll have full access, and it's like, will they have full access of what you have now? Or full access of what was actually there. Because I don't want to see any bullshit that like, this is awesome. And it's like, yeah, you better cooperate. The whole fucking world is watching you, and we know that shit happened at that party. I wanted it, like, now this is one of those cases that's like, I want to fucking know what happened.

Oh, I need to know. And now the pressure is on all of these cases because in the whole world it's suddenly starting to wake up and I'm so glad because this has been happening. And like seeing this case, I knew of it, I had researched it a little bit, but when I went deeper into it, I was like, holy shit. Well, you know what? I'm gonna say like I was ignorant to this case. I had just heard about this case. And it's yeah, it's shitty.

There was no media coverage. But that's the thing. It's like, why are we not hearing about these? Yeah. These cases, it's concerning people of color. You're just not hearing about it. No, you're not because it's open shut. Bye. I don't want to. Let's not deal with that. Whoops, she got drunk and she fell off the porch and somehow got all these injuries and none of it makes sense. It's like okay. But give Bridget a power tool. Oh, I'm hand-bridge it.

That was the best. Bridget brought. Wow, that was a lot. So that is the case thus far of Jamila Horseford. I hope we get to do an update on that case. Gosh, I hope we get to have an update on it. Wow. I really, really, I'm going to be watching this hard. We will update whatever comes out of it. Yes. Anything. Just like, you know, Lori Valow and stuff will throw an extra episode in that week just to give you the lowdown. Yep. We actually probably will end up doing an

update on Kendrick Johnson because a lot is coming up about that and when we try to do Those extra like throw in a third episode during the week if it's like updating something we'll make those add free Yeah, yeah, you know whenever you get one of those like you be So let's all hope everyone keep an eye on this one Tamela horseford was murdered. That's my view on it. I don't know by who right now, but we're gonna find out. We'll see if I have to shut down the comments on this Instagram post too, but.

God. But Tamela Horseford was murdered. That's my view on this bottom boot. Let's just end on that note. You can follow us on Instagram. Morbid podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. A Morbid podcast.

Send us a Gmail. That's where all the listener tails go. Morbid podcast at gmail.com. We hope you keep a lesson on Twitter. A morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail, that's where all the list in our tails go. morbidpodcast.gmail.com. We hope you gave us an arm. And we hope you. Sheep. It's weird. But that's where you throw somebody off of a balcony

and then try to go get a Dunkin' Donuts gift card to cover up for it even though maybe you didn't do it. I don't know if you did or not, but somebody did it at your house. So let's talk about that and we'll find out what happened there. Okay, bye. Save my contacts. Yes. Power to us. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today,

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