Morbid - Episode 160: The Jenny Jones Secret Crush Murder Case

Episode Date: August 1, 2020

In May of 1995 Scott Amedure revealed his secret crush on The Jenny Jones Show to Jonathan Schmitz. The show was never aired, because the outcome was anything but expected. Jonathan snapped and shot Scott Amedure in his home just three days after the show. Throughout the episode we will discuss the negligence throughout the case on the part of the Jenny Jones Show, the gay panic defense and the the negative aspects of ambush television. If you want more on this case check out: Bailey Sarian’s Mystery & Makeup The bizarre Jenny Jones Case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyyp5UmPeJE Netflix doc, Trial by Media:  https://www.netflix.com/watch/81025114?trackId=13752289&tctx=0%2C0%2Cd7d3fd5f613b5668299a760a5bb9bb444f52f0e0%3A05f1f10a7c34a8ab33d70f6b9203e224922969dd%2Cd7d3fd5f613b5668299a760a5bb9bb444f52f0e0%3A05f1f10a7c34a8ab33d70f6b9203e224922969dd%2C%2C As always, thank you to our sponsors!  Better Help: Visit betterhelp.com/Morbid and join the over 1,000,000 people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. In fact so many people have been using BetterHELP that they are recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states. Special offer for our Morbid listeners: get 10% off your first month! Best Fiends: Best Fiends has thousands of levels already, with new levels, events, and characters added every month.  It’s hours of fun right at your fingertips—and you can even play offline! With over 100 million downloads and tons of five-star reviews, Best Fiends is a must-play! Download Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That’s FRIENDS without the R – Best Fiends! Embark: This summer, Embark has a limited time offer just for our listeners! Go to Embarkvet.com now and use Promo code MORBID to get $50 off your Dog Breed and Health kit. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey everybody, before we jump into this episode, I just wanted to add a little note before it. Just to clear something up really fast. Ash and I believe that murderer in this case is 100% to blame, as always. There is never a reason to murder someone, and especially in this case, it is completely due to homophobia. But we do discuss the Jenny Jones show and the fact that they do shoulder responsibility to look into and vet the mental health and mental stability of the guests that they have on their television show. Particularly the ones that they're going to put into possibly triggering

positions like doing ambush things too. I think this is true of any show because we don't know everybody's mental health. But again, the murder in this case is 100% to blame. And I think sometimes that our discussion about different factors can be misconstrued as a true beating blame onto something else besides the murder. The murder is 100% to blame. There are just just extenuating circumstances that also aided in creating this scene to be able to happen in the first place. Just wanted to make that clear before we begin the episode but we hope you enjoy.

Hey weirdo, Zaymash. And I'm Olena. and this is Morbid. [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background It's a real morbid and I remembered to say what my name was before pausing. You did, you didn't pause this time, I was proud of you. Hey yo. Hey yo. You know, only took me two years. You got it, you're here. We're all here, we're proud of you. Let's do this together.

Alrighty, let's do the damn thing. I feel ready now. Let's do this. I'm a pump-up artist if nothing. So I think we really only have like a couple of things we wanted to touch upon before we enter this ash center cap so high. It's me ash. The first thing was just some like true crime news. I'm sure everybody has been aware that there's been some movement in the Madeline McCann case finally 2007. That case we've always wanted to cover but there was just a lot of movement in the Madeline McCann case, in 2007.

That case, we've always wanted to cover, but there was just a lot of movement in it and I kind of wanted to wait until the moving parts have stopped. And I think we're gonna continue to wait and see on this one because things have really heated up in it and I don't wanna do what happened with the Vanessakean case and have people yell at us

that we did it too quick. So I'm gonna wait on this one. Yeah. And wait till the final, till we figure out what's going on. Because what's happening is they have this German like pedophile, essentially. He's a rapist, a pedophile, like a genuine monster. They're calling him Christian B. Christian B.

They have not. Which I think they showed his dumb name. Let's just release this fucker and have at it. They're calling him Christian B. They have not. Why are you thinking they're watching out as dumb names? Let's just release this fucker and have at it. He's already in prison for raping a 72 year old woman. Oh my God. It's on camera what he did. And he raped this woman in the same place in Portugal where Maddie was taken.

Oh shit. And it was like yards away from where? I'm sorry. I think you've said this before There's many coincidences in life, but this is not one of them. That's not one of them. Not one of them. Also, there's not that many coincidences Really hot. Let's be real. Let's be real. And I mean his van was seen like outside of where she was taken It seems plausible that she would have to be put into like a van or something, you know, I mean, it's just... Right, the whole thing is really adding up. They've been searching his property. They found a hidden seller in his property. They also were looking at a well on his property that had been boarded up. I'm sorry, if you have a boarded up well and a hidden seller on your property, you're up to no good.

And there's somebody who's living in one of the parts of the property right now, like she was renting part of it because he's not living there right now. What do you know, sis? Well, no, she, her name is Sabina Selig. And she knows what's up. She's the one who contacted police

and we're like, I think that there might be things here. Like I'm terrified. She actually said that she is sleeping outside because she's in such a panic that she's sleeping on a dead body. That's what she said. I'd be like, is it okay if I break my lease? Hope you don't mind. Can't buy.

Please, and thank you. So there is, there's another case that this guy could be connected to. It's often referred to as the German Maddie, which I don't like. I'm like, she has a name. She's a human being. Yeah, what the fuck? Madeline McCann is one person, and this person, Inga Garricki, is a five-year-old who went missing, and she went missing May 2nd, 2015, from a forest in Germany.

Pretty recently. And she was at a barbecue with her family. She went to get firewood with other children, and she just disappeared. Oh my God. And what they found was that he, Christian B, had rented a parking spot very close to where her family was having this barbecue. Uh-huh. Because he probably saw all the kids. How is it that this fucker is that close to this many missing children?

Yeah. That just doesn't happen. It doesn't make any sense. So they've been searching that, I mean, I'm hoping they find something that like gives closure. Seriously. Again, I'm not going to go fully into like the Maddie case or anything like that yet because we want to cover it in a total like a total episode and I have lots of thoughts. So yeah, well, and I think it's nice to be able to cover a case in its entirety. Yeah, it's like sure. It's nice. And whenever we get updates, it's fun to be like, whoa, guys, and I think it's nice to be able to cover a case in its entirety. Yeah, it's like sure. It's nice.

And whenever we get updates, it's fun to be like, whoa, guys, this is updated. But if we can get a full, you know, some closure at the end of it, obviously, that's the best. The best to wrap it up with a neat little bow on top. And we get time because what do we all do? And, you know, we're all here together. Yeah, we'll just wait around for it. We're all in this together. We're all gonna pretend that that didn't happen. We're just gonna move right along. It's who I am. We're gonna, we're gonna

sail right through that one. Remember when you took me to high school musical on ice? I do remember that. So you did that. I did. I did. For you. I did. So I think the only other thing we wanted to mention was that we are still working on, you know, next year for 2021, getting good shows rescheduled. Some people are probably going to be getting refunds because like dates can't be set yet. But again, we're going to update you as soon as we know these things. I just want to keep you abreast of the situation. We want you to know all the updates.

So that's the latest update we have is that there's really not a lot of Update is no update. We're also we're working on it though We're working on it and we're also planning some more virtual live events to keep you satiated in the meantime Yeah, we're gonna try to get some for the you know all our international Lovelies that you know, it was not a crazy time the last one for you We'll try to work one for you guys. You know, maybe it won't just be us next time. Maybe. Maybe we'll invite a friend. Oh, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Do you know? Hi. I don't know. Who knows? I like when we talk to them, like we're in the car together. I love it.

Hi guys. Hey, girl. Hi, girl. What's up? But I think that's really all we had to touch upon. Yeah. So let's do this thing. All right.

So before I even start my case, I have to say that so many people just like randomly one week were tweeting at me that I needed to watch Bailey Serian's videos. Oh, it's like who's Bailey Serian? And then I sat on my couch for, I was a Sunday, I sat there for a solid eight hours and just watched 90 million Bailey Serian videos and I was like, this girl is my soul sister, I love her. Yes. And her videos are so good. It's amazing, I love her.

She's so talented. So if you don't know who that is, she's the YouTuber, and she does makeup in Murder Mystery Mondays. Yep. And then she also uploads on Saturdays. But the makeup in Murder Mystery Mondays are so fun. So good. So I was watching a ton of them. And one that like really interested me,

and I wanted to find more and more, was the one that she did about the Jenny Jones show. Yes. So it's the Jenny Jones secret crush murder. I used to watch the Jenny Jones show. Okay, so cool, because in my bolded notes right here, it says, does Elena remember? I really do, because it was one of those things that like, my I wouldn't let me watch. So I would like sneak it. I believe it. Don't say too much, because I have questions.

So let me start. I'm letting you start. I'm over here. So the Jenny Jones show premiered in 1993. Sure did. I wasn't born yet. I love to do that to you guys, you're welcome. The youth, right.

So Jenny Jones herself, I don't know, maybe you didn't know all this. She was like a Jill of all traits. She was a comedian, a singer, and before she got her talk show, she made like random appearances like here, there, and everywhere. I didn't know that. You didn't want me to tell you some more about her.

Tell me about it. Do you know Wayne Newton? I do. I figured, Wayne Newton. You don't? No, I do. I was just making sure everybody's on the same page here. I cool. Wayne Newton was the one that actually discovered Jenny while she was, she was like with her band touring in Las Vegas. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, that girl so talented. Let me, let me put her on. I don't know that. So she got a little bigger after that. And along

the way, she kind of started to realize that comedy was more her thing. Like she'd be singing and then in between songs, she'd be like boom, chuging. You know, she's also like a really good drummer. She did star search in 1986 and she ended up winning the comedy prize. That included getting a hundred thousand dollar check. Well, get her. So she started to be like rolling in it, yeah. So she wins all that money and she keeps singing, she keeps touring, and she starts getting a lot more attention and like magazines and stuff

from media all over the place. Yeah. And that's when she got approached by Warner Brothers to do the Jenny Jones show. Huh, I wonder how that happened. I always wonder how people get these things. I do too, because it's like, who are you? Yeah.

Also, her real name is not Jenny Jones. Oh, that's upsetting, because I was gonna say with a name like Jenny Jones. I forget what it is. You gotta do something like that. I just looked it up. Her real name is Janina Straunski. Okay, yeah.

I mean, that's a lot. Well, she's, that's actually kind of a cool name. It is, she's Canadian-American, and I think she was born in Israel. Wow. So I think I mean, it's definitely not as like easy to like Jenny Jones is like, it rolls off the tongue. It's easy to remember. It's like, it's a Jenny Jones. It's like, you know, everybody knows Jenny. Everyone knows the Jones. And like the Jenny Jones show just sounds like such a talk show of that era.

You can't have like a unique name and have a talk show of that era. You can't have like a unique name and have a talk show like that. Exactly. Like Janina Stronsky wouldn't have worked. No, because people wouldn't remember it, I think, because it would be hard to remember. Yeah, I got that. So Jenny Jones was like, hell yeah, let's get it. Let's do the Jenny Jones show.

I'm stoked. So now I want you to kind of talk about like what was on the Jenny Jones show. If I remember correctly, because I watched I when I was younger, I think it was like a kin to like a Ricky Lake show or like a almost like because more, he didn't start out with like the art you are the father. Well neither did Jenny started out with like more like Oprah, yeah, it was kind of like like I don't know if anybody has watched now because I haven't watched it,

but I've seen it in passing the Tamron Hall show where she has people on and they talk about like, Oh, I've watched that a couple times. Like lots of drama and lots of like, yeah. But the Jenny Jones show kind of started off, just like you said, how Maureen didn't start off with. Exactly. That's actually exactly what I wanted to start off

with the paternity test and stuff like that. She kind of started off wanting to be like Oprah. Yeah. Like really talking about issues and life. Right. Like she almost like a Dr. Phil Oprah-esque show. She was a very dramatic thing with people. Right.

And kind of like helping. I guess. But that doesn't make for good ratings all the time. No. And then all these other shows, like you said, the Mori Show and Jerry Springer. They get that grab. Ricky Lake.

I think, I think, never mind. I forgot what I was gonna say. So I'm like, I just like closed my eyes. I was like, she would all see that. She just put her hands, her fingers over her eyes. It was just like, no, never mind. Never mind. Because you know when you're gonna say something

and then you're like, what the fuck was I just about to say? And it just goes, whoop, bye. Yeah, so back to J.E. Jones. She was like, you know what? I'm not getting these ratings. Warner Brothers was probably like, what the fuck was I just about to say? And it just goes, woo, bye. Yeah, so back to J.J. Jones. She was like, you know what, I'm not getting these ratings. Warner Brothers was probably like, we gotta keep up your show. So let's go.

So then she started doing things like, like Bailey Serian was saying, like her favorites were the teenage makeovers. Yes. Like my gophtotter, I don't want her to look like this. Yes. Okay, that's exactly what I remember.

Yeah. And like you said, the paternity tests and then they got this episode idea that was called Secret Crush. Oh, yes. Oh, I, okay, yeah. Do you know what? I don't know this now. I didn't know.

I couldn't find if there had ever been one before this happened. So it was a thing, Secret Crush. Yeah, because the specific episode that we're gonna talk about was filmed, but never aired. Yeah. Yeah, I can understand why. So basically like the idea was that if you had a secret crush on somebody, you would write into the show kind of explaining your crush and like

what you liked about them, who they were, who you were, and you would get on the show, and then you would be like sitting there on the stage and kind of explaining this about them, and then they would be brought out on stage, and it would be like sitting there on the stage and kind of explaining this about them and then they would be brought out on stage and it would be revealed right there. And I think a lot of people remember that as ambush television. Yes. Because we are kind of ambushing somebody.

Definitely ambushing. Right. And like the person would have no idea until they were right there on stage and the cameras were rolling. And they would have to react appropriately. That is a little bit of an ambush. It's the definition of an ambush. Yeah.

So there was this man, Scott Amider, and he was a viewer and like a fan of the Jenny Jones show. And he also had a secret crush. Yes, girl. Oh, I nailed it. A secret crush. But you know how I do these before we get into that. We gotta go back a little bit. We certainly do.

We gotta start at the beginning. Let's find out, which is where I never start. But before I get into that, I think it's important to talk a little bit about who Scott was. So, Scott was born in Pittsburgh in 1963. His parents were Frank and Patricia. Frank and Patty. Frank and Patty, you know?

They had five kids together, which like, Hogali. Good for you, man. So, Scott had three brothers and a sister. I'm not totally sure where he was in line up. I like, tried to figure it out, but. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to find that stuff. Well, especially in cases like this, it's like they only tell you the story of what happened

and finding background is so difficult. It is, yeah. Like even what I'm talking about here, I had to dig real hard to be like, who are you? Like I got in the dirt. Oh, there are then just this. So yeah, five kids, he has three brothers and a sister,

crazy. Other than that, his childhood was pretty normal. His parents did get divorced when he was five and he and his siblings primarily lived with their dad. Oh, okay. So when he was 17, he decides he wants to drop out of high school and he wants to enlist in the army. Okay.

Which at that time was like not something that was so crazy. Yeah, a lot of people were doing that. So he does just that. And he really enjoyed what he did and he was super, super good at it. His specific specialty was satellite communications. And not only did he do all that, but while he was enlisted, he also got his GED.

Wow, look at him go. He was like doing the damn thing. Doing it. So he ended up being in the army for about three years and he was honorably discharged. I think he had broken his leg at one point. So I think that had something to do with it. Okay.

It was probably like disability kind of. Yeah. So when he was done in the army, he was kind of just working like regular nine to five jobs. Kind of like the stuff that he was doing in the army, like the satellite work and everything. Yeah. But then he kind of realized that he preferred working at night. He was like, you know, nightlife is kind of my thing. Like, I like to talk to people. I love the nightlife, baby.

The nightlife is for me. I was going to say like the nightlife didn't choose me at your time. I chose the nightlife with the other way around. Anyways, so he was like, I'm going to become a bartender. Oh, that's a perfect nightlife job. Perfect nightlife job. And he really loved, like I said, talking to people and according to his friends and family, he was a super good time, like really friendly guy. So, bartenders, perfect for you. He was also somebody who would help anybody

if they needed it. Scott himself identified as gay and a lot of his friends had been diagnosed with the AIDS virus and if they didn't have anywhere to go he would take them in like no questions asked and just take care of them. I love that. What a human. That's like a little bit about Scott and even for that little blip it's like, wow. Scott, your purée of. Yeah, you really are. So now back to the Jenny Jones show which is a little not purée of.

No. No, you really are. So now back to the Jenny Jones show, which is a little not Puray-F. No. So not at all. Like I said, he was a fan of Jenny Jones. He liked to watch it and he was like, we all did, I mean, what the fuck all so are you gonna do? Like, stay time television.

Absolutely. And he was at home during the day. Yeah. And this is that it's peak. Peak, daytime television. Right, yeah. So a little bit before he, he ends up writing into the Jenny Jones show about a secret crush.

Okay. But a little bit before he did that, he was heading to his brother's apartment to like hang out or something for the day. And his friend Donna Riley also lived in the same complex. Okay. So he like walks in there that day and he's like, oh, look, it's Donna, he runs into her.

And she's like standing outside of her car and she had a friend working on her car. And he's like, oh, who's this fella working on your car? Who's this tall drink of water? Exactly. Someone called John that once and I never get it. Remember when he thought that was an insult?

He thought it was an insult. John had never heard that. But he called it tall drink of water was an insult. I was like, why is that insult? Why would that be insult? I don't know. Why would anybody say that? I was like, no, it means you're handsome. Look at this tall drink of water. And then you were like, why is that insulting? Why would that be insulting? I don't know. Why would anybody say that? Like, no, it means you're handsome.

Like, look at this tall drink of water. And then you were like, who said it to? Hydrate in me. Hydrate in me. It was an older gentleman. It was pretty wonderful. I loved it. Wow, that's whimsy.

Yeah, I was like, I agree. I was like, that's true. That's whimsy right there. So Donna's outside, she's got this tall drink of water working on her car. And Scott thought this guy was super cute, super good looking and he was like immediately interested. Awesome.

So who's this guy? Yeah, who is he? Jonathan Schmitz. Jonathan Schmitz, a really fun last name to say. He was like 25, 26 at the time and Scott didn't know if he was gay or not. Yeah. So Donna was pretty sure he wasn't, but she was like, I do remember Jonathan mentioning

his family had questioned him on whether or not he was gay. Oh, okay. At one point, so she was like, I am not sure. Like, yeah, it could be. Maybe he's by. Like, he hasn't come out to me. Right. So, he, and like, the reason his family had been asking him

about it is because he had like, multiple girlfriends. And actually, I think, I think it was Bailey Sarian who said it or I read it somewhere that he was engaged at one point and it didn't work out. Okay. So after meeting Jonathan and becoming like super interested he just he really like thought this guy was so cute and I'll get to that at some point but it like makes me sad. Oh that hurts my heart. I know. So he sees that Jenny Jones secret crush thing and he's like oh my heart. I know. So he sees that Jenny Jones secret crush thing and he's like, oh my God, that's perfect.

So honestly, to me, it seems Scott kind of just thought this was gonna be like a super like cute and lighthearted way to shoot his shot. Yeah. And it's like, I feel like that's something I would do. Like if I didn't, if I wasn't dating Annie and like I was interested in her, I'd be like, oh my God, like secret crush. Like I fucking love TV.

Let's make it a big deal. Like wouldn't I wanna be on TV? I'm gonna, like, let's make it like a limelight situation. Right, and I think Scott was kind of, I feel like I kind of like, like resonate with him a little bit. Like I'm like, I get you. I get where you're coming from. He had a little extra to him.

Yeah. Like he was ready for it. I get that. And even his brother said he was like, I think he just wanted to be on TV. Like, the whole thing would be fun. And again, it's just a fun way to shoot your shot. Right.

So I don't think he thought anything bad would come of it other than like maybe Jonathan not having mutual feelings. And then maybe they could just be like, well, you know, like, tried. And it seems like Scott was the kind of guy who would just be like, oh, I gave it a shot. Exactly. Like, we tried. So the show was set to tape on May 6, 1995.

Scott and Donna actually went with him. Donna, they flew to Chicago where the show was taped. They flew together. And Donna was like kind of his wing woman for the trip, which loved Donna. I love that. I love that. I love that.

Donna really like you're the cutest. And Jonathan obviously didn't know that they were going, so he's going separately, because he has no idea that like it's a Scott that's interested in him. Oh man. So they all fly out to Chicago separately, except for you get it. They fly out there. You got it. You know who's with who? They're all using air travel appropriately to get there. Which also I think a flight, they lived in Michigan and the show was in Chicago. I'm pretty sure that flight is like half an hour. Yeah, I was gonna say that doesn't seem like a joke. It's like a Boston to New York.

Yeah. But so all the producers apparently had told Jonathan before he flew out that the premise of the show was that someone had a crush on him and it would be revealed on the show. On the ship. I don't really know what happened. Sorry, I stopped recording to give Ash a moment to collect her vocal cords off the floor.

Are you good, Sist? You smoke a pack a day. But yeah, I don't. So she's on the show. Not on the show. Okay, get it together. That's like the really metal version of the show. On the show.

Okay, all right, back. So they were like, yep, somebody has a crush on you. It's going to be real on the show! Okay, okay, all right, back. So they were like, yep, somebody has a crush on you. It's gonna be real on the show. And I think, like I said before, Jonathan was engaged before. So I think it was Bailey Serian who said it. I wish I remembered. But either way, he thought that it was gonna be his fiance. Oh, so he was like, okay, like I'll go on the show and on the show.

I'll be there. And yada yada yada. Okay, that makes sense. So it's the day of filming. Jenny Jones opens up and Scott and Donna are sitting there on the stage and Jenny Jones is explaining who Scott is to the audience and like what his secret crushes.

So she's like, Scott, explain what Jonathan looks like and tell us why you're so interested, you know, like, what's up? Like, why are you here? So basically, Scott is just like, I think this dude is super cute. Like, he got a little like intense with it. Like, I forget, I don't have a direct quote of what he said,

but he basically was just like, I think he's really hot. Yeah. And then she was like, I know you also have this kind of like fantasy about him. Like, can you tell us what that is? And Scott was like, I know you also have this kind of like fantasy about him. Like, can you tell us what that is? And Scott was like, yeah, bitch. So he didn't say that. But he was like, basically, it was along the lines of like, I have a hammock in my yard. And like, I would get some champagne and some strawberries and whipped cream. And like, maybe it involved like tying somebody up. Oh, at first, I was, that's so pure. And let it just go.

Yeah, like the hammock. I was like adorable. So cute. I mean, it's all still adorable. I was gonna say that's still great. He just, especially with, I mean, with a willing consenting partner, there it is. Adorable.

Great date night. I get it. He had a fucking plan. Honestly, good job Scott. Good job Scott. He was ready and willing. So, yeah, that's what the fantasy involved. And obviously there's a sexual connotation behind that. And I think, like, Scott was kind of joking

at the same time. Well, he was probably just like playing it up. Like, you're going to be like, we've all done that with a crush. Like, we're all just like, oh my god, the things I was doing. What I would do were interesting. You know, like, you're gonna be crazy. You're playing it up too, because you're on TV. So you're on the Jenny Jones show. You gotta bring the sauce. Yeah, you can't just go on there and be like, I think they're a very nice person. I think I would like to take him to dinner

and pay for the check. I think they're attractive. Right. Like, Jenny Jones would be like, you need to give me some. She's like, so do you want to food, or not? Like, let's get it.

Let's talk about the real shit. So while all this is happening, Jonathan is backstage and he has headphones in. So he just not going to hear anything. They don't want to spoil the secret of who the crush is, even though he thinks he knows. Jenny then is like, well, let's bring Jonathan out. So Jonathan walks out and he's like grinning and he's like, you can tell he's a little surprised, but he's, he doesn't look like shooketh. Like angry or anything. And I think when he walked out at first, he thought it might have been Donna, who had the secret of her show name,

because it gives her a hug and, they all know each other. Yeah. So he gives her a hug and a kiss on the cheek, and then as he's about to kind of go give Scott a hug or sit down, Jenny Jones, is like, so did you know it was Scott with the crush on you?

Like it's Scott, it's not Donna. And he's like, oh. And you can tell he gets like slightly uncomfortable. And they get, they still give each other a hug, but it is a little bit of a weird shift. You can tell. And like, it's fair, a little bit. The slightest shift.

It's nothing like almost indesernable. Right. If we weren't talking about this case, it would have just been like, wow, that guy handled that so well, even though like fuck off, it's nothing like that. Exactly, but like he, he wasn't, he didn't make it weird. Right, he didn't make it weird. He's like sort of nervously laughing,

but looks normal otherwise. And then Jenny Jones is like, oh, excuse me, before I say what she said, when he sits down, he looks at, because he's sitting right next to Scott, Scott is in the middle, then Jonathan, and then on the other side, Donna. Okay. And when he sits down, he looks at them and he goes sitting right next to Scott. Scott is in the middle, then Jonathan, and then on the other side, Donna. Okay. And when he sits down, he looks at them,

and he goes, you guys lied to me. And he says it laughing. But he says it laughing. So I couldn't find like what exactly that meant. Now, I feel like you have, like, what do you think? I'm just think, I just, whenever somebody says something like that, like you lied to me is never like, I think that's really funny.

That's gonna be like, oh, you lied to me. You lied to me and I'm real pissed about it, but we're on TV right now, so I'm gonna say, you lied to me. Yeah. And it's like one of those, I'm gonna fuck you up, but I'm gonna pretend it's fine right now. To me, that's how I would immediately take that. I get that.

I also came up with this idea in my head just to kind of explain the whole thing. I was like, I, because remember, he lived in the same apartment complex as Donna and Scott's brother lived there too. Oh yeah. So part of me kind of wonders if they like ran into each other with luggage and that he was like, oh, where are you going? And they sent something else. I forgot that they lived in the same apartment complex. So that makes sense. But also your thing makes sense too. It all kind of makes sense. I think maybe it was a combination of both. Like he could have been like, oh, you lied to me about where you were going, like that this was all going to be happening. Like you lied to me. Like everything.

In time annoying. Yeah, like I'm real annoyed right now. So it gets better. But then you wonder too, maybe they maybe they may be they let or Donna maybe or someone let him believe that it was his fiance or like yeah, pushed that narrative slightly. Maybe like didn't dispel it if he brought it up. That's a good idea. And maybe he was excited about that. And then he's just pointed.

There's a lot of possibilities. And there is. We don't really know. Unfortunately. Yeah, so he he sits down. He says that. And then, then Jenny, kind of, is obviously it's her fucking daytime television talk show

where she's trying to get the ratings. Ratings exactly. And she's like, oh, well, let's play back the tape so that Jonathan can hear about the fucking sexual fantasy that Scott has about him. And Scott's like, OK, he seems fine with it. And Jonathan is, I hate to say a good sport about it because it's like, there's nothing wrong with being gay,

obviously, like, at all. But honestly, male or female, if like, it's like gay, straight by whatever it is, I feel like this is a weird situation. It's a weird situation regardless. Right. So I think him just not, you know, being a good sport means just like him being a good sport about being told on national television about something like this.

I just wanted to say what I meant, so that it's clear. Yeah. So, gotta make it clear. Yeah. So he's a good sport about it. He like sits through the fantasy and then Jenny's like, so why? Because that would be uncomfortable for anybody. Well, yeah, and I mean, slightly embarrassing.

And I'm gonna get to that a little bit later. Hey there, fellow podcast listener. It's Elena. And Ash. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know, when you would come home from high school

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The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon music or Wonder App. What? He's like, oh, that's flattering. And she's like, so are you single? And he's like, I am. But he says right in the show, he's like, I am single, I'm available, but I am 100% heterosexual. Okay. Like I am not gay.

And it kind of seems like you can't watch the entire thing, so I've just seen bits and pieces, and that's what you see. And I don't know how it ends or anything like that. But I do know, it is frustrating, but I do know that they all hung out together afterwards. So it's not like it was this big bomb drop of like, no. I mean, I'm sure it was a bomb drop slightly, but yeah, it seems like he kind of got over it,

and then they all went to dinner together and had drinks and flew back home together. Because it's also like sure this this is a little on a different level because he brought him on TV to do it. Right, but it's like, we've all, I think a lot of people have had this kind of situation where either you think someone's, you have a crush on someone, you tell them or you have someone else tell them, they're like, I don't feel the same way. Right.

You either, that's it and you just kind of fade apart. Or you're just like, whatever. One of my best friends, Jeff. I love Jeff's view of this. You listen to him. I had a crush on Jeff and Jeff was like, yeah, I don't like whatever. One of my best friends, Jeff. I love you, Jeff. You live in Don't You. I'm like, I had a crush on Jeff and Jeff was like, yeah, like I don't like you. So yeah, and not like that. He was just like, I don't like you romantically. Yeah. And it didn't work out, but we're still friends. Exactly. And I

was just like, still friend with my face. Just turned red. Did you see that? Yeah. I still like, but we like hang out from time to time and we're like, I will remember when I like professed that I like to. And he was like, and yeah, but you can be cool about it. You can get totally moved past it and it just becomes a funny part of your relationship history. I can feel how red my face is. I feel like it's a big deal for everybody. I'm picturing all these people listening to this.

And my unrecwitted feeling, it's not totally kidding. But it's true, it's like, you can really, you can move past it and be totally fine. Exactly. So it makes sense, it's like, you can really, you can move past it and be totally fine. Exactly. So it makes sense that they were like, ah, whatever, that's weird. That was a crazy story that we can tell later for a little while.

And it's like, why didn't just, why didn't just keep going with that? Right. So it didn't take long for them to not keep going with that. Three days after the show taped, Jonathan was returning home and he was either returning home or leaving and he found a note taped to his door. And it said something, it was alongside some kind of like construction light or equipment and it said something along the lines of, quote,

you have the right tools to turn this on, which I think is fucking hilarious. If I got that known, I'd be like, that's great. Like, what? But he knew that it was from Scott. And he was like, I'm not gay. Like, I'm not interested. And he, I don't want to say he snapped because I... I'd just like get it together. Get it together.

But he, in a way, snapped. And he decided... Well, something snapped in him. Right, yeah. He decided right then in there that he was gonna kill Scott. Dude, that is like big fucking jump, dude. Come on. Like just go to, like just be like, you know what,

I'm not interested, please stop. Yeah. And if he doesn't stop, like go from there, but it's not okay to kill anybody for any fucking reason ever. You have to sit down with him and be like, like lay out your boundaries. We can either be friends, but if you can't handle that,

then we need to not hang out and not talk. Exactly. Like a unique communication. This is called being a mature adult with a lay-down ass. Exactly. So that's not at all what happened. Give it a try, man.

I think the big problem here was that Jonathan was pissed off that Scott put him on the show. Yeah, for sure. He was going to be potentially, that Scott put him on the show. Yeah, that he was going to be potentially, even though he sat on the show, like I'm 100% heterosexual, I think he was very nervous about what people were going to think of him. Yeah. And especially his family, which I'm going to get in too late. I'm sure that. So like I said, he makes the decision right there. He's fucking enraged and he drives right to the bank to take out money, then drives to the store to get a gun.

And I'm pretty sure he drove to a separate store to get ammunition. Oh. And then he immediately drives to Scott's home. He sits outside of Scott's place for a while, which like right then and there, that's fucking premeditation. You could have stopped.

Oh yeah. This whole trip along themeditation. You could have stopped. Oh yeah. This whole trip along the way there, you could have stopped it. Oh, he made several stops to plan this whole thing out. Exactly. So, right, hello plan. Hello. He knocks on the door in confronts Scott

and I'm pretty sure based on a few of the articles that I read, the first time he went to the door, he did not have the gun. Oh, okay. And then some, like the conversation got heated and he goes back to the door, he did not have the gun. Oh, okay. And then some, like the conversation got heated and he goes back to the car and he grabs the gun, obviously. He opens the screen door with a tip of, and it was a 12 gauge buck-eye shotgun.

Ah, yeah. Oh, that is like 12 gauge buck-eye shotgun. That's, that's intending to do a lot of damage. A lot of damage. Scott yelled to his roommate Gary that Jonathan had a gun like basically helped me and it was already too late because Jonathan pulled the trigger twice

and fired two shots directly into Scott's chest at like super close range. Oh my God. So close range that paper waiting from one of the shells was found in Scott's heart, and then a fragment from the other shell was found in his left lung. Wow. So like insanely close.

Wow. There was also evidence that Scott had held up a chair to try and defend himself. Which is that's going to come back later. Oh, that makes me so sad. So Jonathan immediately fleed the scene, fled the scene and started driving toward his sister's house. She lives like close by, I guess. And he stopped at a gas station to use the pay phone and called 911 and turned himself in.

Wow. Yeah. And he told the operator, he's like, obviously I just shot a man. And the operator was like, why did you do that? Like, why? I think she was just shocked. And he said to the operator, this, the guy that I shot played a really awful trick on me. Oh, so he, so that did a lot, the, the actual trick of like getting him on the show seems to be

a big trigger. It was in his psyche. That's a big trigger. Right. So Scott's roommate Gary had also called the police and an ambulance came as well, but it was already too late. Scott was pronounced dead and they found the chair he tried to defend. He tried to use to defend himself knocked over not far from where he was. So this just didn't need to happen.

No. So, I know all murderous, senseless, you know, like, but like. This is especially a whole senseless, really tough case. Like communication, yeah. Break down from the jump. And when it's just like, it goes to show how like, how differently people think to one person, it might just be super lighthearted, good fun.

Like, everybody has a different hit, a good fun. Everybody has a different definition of light-hearted fun. And that's like pranks especially. Pranks go for long. Some people think it's fun. Some people, and some people have it from like childhood where they got teased or something, and it's a huge trigger for them.

I think you, like our family is big on teases. And sometimes it can go too far. Yeah, I think you and I, family is big on tea and sometimes it can go too far. Yeah. I think you and I especially we don't like to be too. All of a sudden you can see like on both of our I know when Ash has hit her when I don't like it's not funny anymore. And same with you. And it's just shoots right over you. And it even rages you. Right. You're suddenly like all right walk off everybody shut up. I obviously need through of us has ever gotten violent with our family but it does kind of like flick this switch in your head where you're like,

you want to like slam your fist on a table or like. And that's why those shows like the Jenny Jones show and all these shows that like push television. And push people. That's so dangerous. And I'm not saying it's their fault. Right. You know, like a directly or anything,

but like I think that these kind of shows should have a lot more like psychologist being involved in this and being like this isn't a good idea. Well, it's not something that's gonna end well 100% of the time. And that's a big part of this case. And we're gonna get into that because the psychology is just overlooked here. It is. Everyone does not find being ambushed or surprised, fun. Right. That's not everybody's idea of like, you be, I'm surprised. At all. And honestly, I wouldn't want to, and I know I said it earlier, like, I would think that

was fun, but I wouldn't want to actually be on the receiving end if I didn't have those feelings. Exactly. Because it's like, either way, you kind of look like an asshole to some people and don't have those feelings. And it's forcing a feeling out of you. Think of like catfish, that's completely different because that person has been catfishing somebody.

But think of how embarrassed those people are and the levels that they go to. Exactly. And it's how embarrassed they can be. So it's all, I think those shows, I mean, it was a time when we weren't probably thinking too hard into the actual, you know, things that would be a lot of trouble at.

Yeah, so I think it's just now we think a little more about those things. The 90s. The 90s, am I right? So, Jonathan was taken into custody and he admitted everything to the police, even telling them that once he found the note right then and there That's when he decided to kill Scott. So he told them everything. That's like rare. It is rare.

It's just like, it's strange. This is a very interesting case. Yeah, it's very strange. He went to trial in 1996 and obviously was up for first degree murder. The defense had a few tricks up there, sleeve, though. So they used the good old gay panic defense. A stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

I, it's an absolute, I don't understand how it's still a thing. Because it still isn't most states honestly. In fact, we laid out in the... If you listen to the math news shepherd. I think it was part two that we talked about. Yeah, I think I laid out each state where it's pending. I was gonna say it's being worked on to be thrown out. If you listen to that episode, you'll hear

how many states still have it, how many don't, how many are pending. To get it off the books. And this was right around the same time, like I said, 1996. Yeah. Because Massachusetts is in the process of getting off the book. It's still pending.

Right. So they use the gay panic defense. They also argued that Jonathan was mentally ill and he suffered from manic depression and graves disease. Oh, okay. So I didn't know what graves disease was actually. That's interesting. So I looked it up.

You looked it up. And according to the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, graves disease is, quote, an autoimmune disorder that causes hyperthyroidism, or overactive thyroid. Your immune system attacks the thyroid and causes it to make more thyroid hormone than your body needs. The thyroid is a small butterfly-shaped gland in the front of your neck. So yeah, sure is. And you can also make your eyes bulge. That's a sign of gravestis use. I didn't know that. So the defense argued that some of the side effects of Graves disease, and this is true,

are irritability and irrational, sometimes violent behavior, which is true. Essentially, what they were saying was that their client was homophobic. So he freaked out a K-panicked when Scott admitted the crush on this ambush TV show, and the note was what pushed him over the edge and the grave's disease Helped along the way because it helped him to it just helped fuel the already the already

There thoughts that he was having naturally so I hate to even use this but the perfect storm. Yeah, exactly what was because by no means Is anyone saying grave disease it makes you dangerous? No, and actually, I'm going to talk about that later too. Okay, good. The prosecution argued that Jonathan could have stopped at any point along the way to Scott's house. He definitely stopped before he went to the bank while he was on the way to get the gun, the ammunition, while he was sitting outside. He was pretty much sitting outside. I'm sure contemplating what he was going to do. So, like I said, that right then and there is pre-meditation. A lot of times he could have stopped. So, there were some issues in the case. There were two confessions made by Jonathan, like I said, he told them everything.

There was a videotaped one and a regular oral one, but the judge would not allow them to be used in the trial because one was made before Jonathan was read his Miranda. Oh, I knew they were going to say that they didn't Miranda as them. Nope, which is, I'm like, isn't that it is the first thing you should be? But oftentimes, have you seen cops? Oh, God. And then the other one was made before he had been given a right to counsel. So it's like, so part of the Miranda, right? Exactly. So it all had to do with Miranda, right?

Yeah. Then there was the issue of the overturned chair because you kind of had to go one way versus the other. The prosecution tried to say that the chair had been used in a completely different matter. I do, that's what you're gonna say. Excuse me, Manor, to throw at Jonathan and that's when things got heated.

And really, how were you gonna argue that? I mean, nobody knows except the two people that were standing there. And Gary was there and I, the roommate, but I don't know if he was able to testify or like what the deal was with that. I couldn't, I'm sorry, find too much about it. Yeah, sometimes you can't. He really just can't.

But, and basically there was thing that could have set him off and like that's when he went and got the gun. So, I mean, every, anytime someone throws a chair at you, it's definitely good. I did a grab a shotgun and pump two shells into them. Yeah, it's, it's definitely not. I, I really guys that, yeah, that doesn't still, still not a good defense. Still not doing it. But I think they were saying like, well doesn't. Still not a good defense. Still not doing it. But I think they were saying, well, they both got violent,

of course. Lawyers have to make their case some. They do? They got to do their job. So multiple people testified at the trial. And some of them, this is interesting. Some of them actually said that they thought that Scott and Jonathan had slept together.

Oh, so I don't know. Jonathan's father testified. Now, Jonathan's father, I Oh. So, I don't know. Jonathan's father testified, now Jonathan's father, I said that fast, testified, and kind of gave essence to the home that Jonathan was brought up in when he was younger. Oh. His father was definitely homophobic. There's literally no other way to put it.

It makes sense that he would raise a homophobic son. And if you think back to, I said Donna Riley had said that Jonathan told her, his family had questioned if he was gay in the past. So clearly it was not an acceptable good thing to be gay in this family. Okay. And he also, at one point, he was being cross-examined.

And while he was on the stand, asked one of the lawyers in response to a question, well, how would you feel if someone thought you were gay? I don't even know. Like the lawyer's gonna be like, you know what, sir, you're totally right. I'd be homicidal as well. Would you treat someone?

Like, you treat it? Are you kidding me? Okay, how would you feel if someone thought you were gay? Like, what? I'm not on the stand, so fuck off. No, and I'd be like, what kind of fucking question is that? Right. Like, giving credence to you should kill someone

if they think you're gay, like, what? Exactly. So that happened. So I think that kind of gave, like I said, a lot of insight to people about where Jonathan came from. For sure. And it kind of seemed like the jurors had a soft spot for him.

And if you see him too, I think that's another thing. He was like this like young guy. He kind of looked like somebody that would be like on TV and one of the, he would be like the heart throb in the teenage show. Yeah.

And like you could see why Scott really dug him. Yeah, you could see why Scott dug him. And you could I guess see why these jurors felt bad. I guess I don't. It's human nature is a weird thing. It is. It's like the Diane Downs thing. It is. Well, and they couldn't look at him and think of him as this evil monster. In fact, one of them was like, I feel like he would be like my son or like my friend. Yeah. And I couldn't get that out of my head. And honestly, his counsel probably played that up in a big way. They did it in a certain way.

Or affects two shirts, what shirt things. Yeah. So, and they also couldn't get over the fact that if it were not for the Jenny Jones show, the situation probably never would have happened. I mean, yeah, I think if I was on that jury, I would think the exact same thing. I honestly, my two, because it's like, I don't know if Scott would have got, you know,

if anything, he would have just told him how he felt. And he wouldn't have felt, you know, that he had to answer in front of the world. Well, that's the thing. It wouldn't have been a national news. Yeah, it would have just been like a conversation between two people. And maybe his family and friends wouldn't have found out, and it would have been, and who knows if Jonathan felt the same way, and just felt like he couldn't say it. Because it was in front of the world.

And then he felt pissed that Scott did it in front of the whole world, so he couldn't answer him the way he wanted to. Again, this is just speculating totally. But it's all very valid speculation. So, and obviously does not, none of it, he almost like did. It doesn't kill someone for that. None of it condenses actions. none of it, it doesn't, it doesn't kill someone for that. No. None of it condenses actions. We're just trying it. I think we always try to understand, understand the psyche. And it goes back to the show, the ambush, right.

The ambush way that they were doing things, and the jurors couldn't get that out of their head. So they convicted Jonathan of second degree murder. And because he did murder somebody at the end of the day. Yeah. So they convicted him of second degree murder. And because he did murder somebody at the end of the day. Yeah. So they convicted him of second degree murder. And the judge sentenced him to a minimum of 25 years to a max of 50 years. And the judge looked at him and told him he had three days to stop himself after the show and deal with what had happened. And then said, the sentence will rob you of your youth, not your life.

Wow. Which it's like you robbed somebody of their life, but I'm not going to do the same thing to you. So Jonathan's lawyer urged him to sue the show after this, or at least think about it, and to use all his appeals. And he did end up appealing his sentence in 1998. His case was overturned, and he was retried, but this say, he got the same verdict. Okay, good sentence.

Because I was like if they reduced that, I was going to be pissed. Yeah, I was going to be pissed too. The Amateur family was also not happy at the end of the day. Yeah. That's Scott's family. In fact, Scott's brother Frank basically put it like, our family lost their son and brother and so did Jonathan's family. And both of the families agreed this would not have happened if it weren't

for the Jenny Jones show. They both, it seemed like everybody was in a griance. And it's like, and it's not, it's not, it's not so it shouldn't be the one to have to figure out that the psychology behind all this, it's like the show should have known and should have had people to determine this to me. Exactly.

You know, it's not Scott being like, it's not Scott's fault. It's, I don't want to say it's not Jonathan's fault, but I think they were both put in a position where they didn't think about the outcomes. Yeah, because I think people with more knowledge should have stopped this from working. People who have a platform and should be more responsible with their platform. I guess, is a way to put that also gross noise that I mean. It's a very weird case.

It is weird because you also can't put all the blame on the Jenny Jones show. No, you can't. Some of it does need, he did. Jonathan made a choice. A decision. To murder someone. Right, but no reason at all.

Right, and I think it's very easy to kind of go back and forth with, I went back and forth with how I felt the entire time I was researching this. And I'm still back and forth about how I feel. Yeah. I think that what really runs the vein that runs through all of this is homophobia for sure. Homophobia definitely. And it's either like internalized, like self-hatred, which or it's just learned behavior that was taught to him. I think it was a little bit of both. Like I said, both families were not happy. They had both lost their child or brother. So in 1999, the amateur family sued the Jenny Jones show in a wrongful death suit.

Jenny Jones herself, who she had previously put out a statement saying she wanted, she literally was like, I just want to clear some things up, which it's like, oh, maybe don't start coming. Oh, I know. Like, nope, somebody is dead. Don't do that. She claimed no responsibility. She claimed that the show is not responsible at all. Okay, Jenny.

Yeah, fucking bullshitting. She put no, okay. Jenny ends up getting fucked responsible at all. Okay, Jenny. Yeah, fucking bullshitting. But no, Jenny ends up getting fucked over real hard. Cool, Jenny. She went on the show as well as the producers from the show, and they admitted that they didn't know or ask about Jonathan's mental health at the time of the show or before the show. Yeah, that's a problem. That's the fear.

That's the fear. Is negligent. They also testified that they told him his secret crush could be a man or a woman, but they did agree that he was maybe led to believe that it was a woman. Oh, come on. Right.

Come on, guys. So you didn't pull the trigger, but that's some culpability there. You didn't pull the trigger, but you helped. Yeah, you pushed some things along here. So the attorney that was hired by the Amateur Family is Intense This Fuck, it's Jerry Figer. Oh, yeah, I've heard that now.

He's so fucking intense. If this happened in our family, he would be the dude that I want to hire, because he went balls to the wall. Good. He had Jenny on the stand, and he went to town on her. Good. In the cross-examination before when it was

Like the defense or when it was not the family their lawyer. I'm so bad about Prosecution. Yes. Thank you the prosecution. She she did really well on the stand But once Jerry Feigar got her she fucking crumbled good So he Basically went after her and asked her questions about the advertising for her show. He argued that she wanted to be like Oprah in the beginning, but then when she realized that ambushed television was where the money was at, that's what she got into. He also asked her about whether or not the guests were prepared for the show and like other questions about how the show

worked when it came to guests and getting them on the show and like other questions about how the show worked when it came to guests and getting them on the show. Yeah. Basically asking, is there some kind of process where you make sure that they're mentally capable? You bought them properly. And she didn't have an answer. Because they didn't.

Right. And he argued, how can you claim no responsibility when you don't even know what's going on behind the scenes of your own show? Yeah. Like, it's ridiculous. And she actually had written a book where she talked about the murder and everything

and in the book, she claimed no responsibility. And it's like, you can't. So shady of her. You can't claim no responsibility when you have no idea. Your name is on this. I would want to know every fucking in and out of that show, if my name, like, I know every in and out of morbid.

You know exactly, our names are on it. You need to know what's going on. Like, obviously very different situations, but especially on that level. Yeah, it's the same thing. Like, when we, we're, you know, the Facebook group is on its way out because our name is attached to that.

Right, and it goes. We can't vet every single person that gets into that group and what their opinions are and what they're gonna say. out the Facebook group is on its way out because our name is attached to that. Right, and it goes. We can't vet every single person that gets into that group and what their opinions are and what they're going to say. Exactly. We don't want it attached to us. We don't want to be associated to that. So you remove your, you have to take care of that shit.

That's your, that's your name. That's your name. So. That's what you got. The decision was made by the jury at the end of the trial that the Jenny Jones show Warner Brothers who produced the show and Telepicture's productions were to pay the Amadir family 25 to 29 million dollars a damages. Wow. I read 25 in some places and 29 others The family never saw a dime of that money. That's fuck never saw a dime and the Jenny Jones show appealed multiple times

That is shady and That's fuck never saw a dime. And the Jenny Jones show appealed multiple times. That is shady. In 2002, the Michigan State Court threw out the original jury ruling of the money awarded to the Amateur family, stating that the show had no legal responsibility to protect a guest on the show after it aired. That's it, yeah, and that's not even.

And it's like, but you had to protect them while they were there. And you didn't. Yeah, exactly. Jenny Jones said that she was, quote, elated by the decision. Oh, good. And then went on to say,

Scott Amidere's murder was a horrible tragedy, but I have always believed that it was fundamentally wrong and unfair to blame the show. I am thrilled that the Court of Appeals agreed that the show could not possibly have predicted and prevented this brutal crime. Okay. Sure, you can't predict it by any stretch.

We're not, it's calling you a witch. By bringing people off the street who you know nothing about. You have a responsibility. And feeling to learn a damn thing about them or their mental health. Before bringing them on and doing something that would stress out somebody without any mental health issues, that's your fault. Exactly. And actually, I think I said I was going to get into that later when we were talking about how he felt and how it would be awkward to have anybody

profess their sexual feelings toward you in front of a lot of people. I'm not entirely sure exactly who it was, but one of the lawyers who was cross examining somebody on trial was like, why don't I ask you about you and your wife, like a sexual fantasy like between you and your wife? And the guy was like, no, I'm not fucking talking about that. That's embarrassing. You know, point proven.

Exactly. You don't want to talk about it. Exactly. So the Jenny Jones show was canceled in 2003. finally, when its ratings basically plummeted. And as for Jonathan Schmitz, he was let out of prison on good behavior in 2017. He was 47 and he had served 22 years of his sentence. Wow. Yeah.

Scott's brother Frank, who actually suffers from Graves' disease himself and said it never made him violent. No, of course not. He said that he hoped Jonathan is actually sorry. He hopes that he received psychiatric treatment while he was in jail. And he hopes that he's not homophobic anymore. Wow. So, oh, that's a tough, tough case.

And I think if you want to watch, I watched this show on Netflix. It's called Trial by Media. This is the first episode. And Frank Ameter, the Scott's brother, talks a lot. He's like the primary one being interviewed. Yeah. And he was literally right outside of Scott's home the day his body was taken away.

Oh my God. And like he talks a lot about the experience of them growing up together. It's just senseless. Who he was and and how he feels about Jonathan now. So. And it's just and the thing that like sits at the heart of it is just homophobia. Homophobia. That's really that's really really really unfortunate. Exactly. That's the end result of that. And it's just so sad that I mean it's sad that both families lost somebody. Yeah, and it's like, and it really pisses me off that Jenny Jones could have come out

and she could have been like, you know what? You know what? We need to do better. We need to fix this. And this was, we did not think this through. We were negligent. That would have been like, wow. And people, because all people want,

I mean, this is a very large mistake Yeah, but when mistakes happen you got to own up to it man One turn it around and make something come out of it try to fix it try to go you know what all right this this Happened and we're gonna try we're we might not succeed, but we're gonna give it a shot right because it's my responsibility now to do that But she instead she's like I had nothing shot. Right. Because it's my responsibility now to do that. But she does. And instead, she's like, she was like, I have nothing to do with that. And it's like, you asshole.

Your name is all over that thing. And that's the other thing. It's negligent. That's, and that's the whole thing they were trying to argue. And I hope, I mean, they did argue when the original sentencing, but the show was negligent. It was that it's negligent. Jenny Jones herself was negligent as fuck.

She didn't know what was happening on her own show. Yeah, you can't have people coming on to the show was negligent. It was that is negligent. Jenny Jones herself was negligent as fuck. She didn't know what was happening on her own show. Yeah, you can't have people coming on to the show and being ambushed for anything. If you don't know, I mean, you could, that could have triggered him the second he walked out on the, on the stage if he was mentally unstable. Well, think about anything. Could have lights could have triggered someone

that laws can trigger. Like you don't know anything about this person. Well, think about like even like the Mori show and the Jerry Springer show, like people get into fist fights on those shows. And they go crazy. Like, and I mean, I'm assuming now things are much different and you kind of have, I'm sure they have to sign

waiver upon waiver. Yeah. They're hopefully their psychology has looked in. And I'm sure some of it is like, you know, I'm sure a lot of it staged and all that. But like back then it wasn't. It was not at all. It was all like, let's just terrify this person.

Let's just get paid for it. And then they put Scott in a position where it was like, yeah, this is all fun. And everybody's gonna think this is fun because you think it's fun. And it's like, so what would he to do? Right, exactly. It's just fun.

Well, he was a fan of the show he'd watched in the past. I'm sure. He was a fan of Jenny Jones. He probably saw that everything ended up fine with everybody else. Right. So, I mean, Jonathan's a murderer straight up. He's black and white is what it is. A dangerous human being. Right. He's obviously mentally unstable in some way. And while Mike Frank's brother said, excuse me, Scott's brother Frank said, I hope he did get psychiatric treatment and while he was in jail. Yeah. I mean, I hope he did get psychiatric treatment in while he was in jail.

Yeah, I mean, I hope he did too, especially because he's out. I mean, the whole point of jail is to rehabilitate. Exactly, so let's hope. And because Scott was by no means at fault for any of this. No, he didn't do anything at all. I really think all the responses, I think it's like, I don't wanna say 50-50, because it's not 50-50,

but all the responsibility falls on the Jenny Jones show and Jonathan. I don't know in what percentage is, but I feel like it was meld together. I've been looking at this case for weeks and that's my final conclusion. That's how I feel. So if you want to go watch that show, definitely watch that Netflix show. That's interesting. There's like shit tons of articles about this. You can watch the court TV, like things online.

For cities. And watch Bailey's series of videos because they're so good. Day-ah, she's great. And thank you to everybody who told us to watch her. Yeah, because she's great. Yeah. Wow. That was a crazy one. It was. That's nuts. And share your thoughts nicely and respectfully. Thank you when we post this. And because some people might not agree. And that's fine. Like, what our thoughts because some people might not agree and that's fine like what our thoughts are. Well, that's that's like that's the hard of the fun of doing this. Just remember be nice. Be respectful about it. Leave the snark at home. Opinions are not wrong.

Have nice debates if you want. We're going to stay out of it, but we're going to let you guys talk about it. Have fun. Love you so much. Well, yeah, you can follow us on Instagram if you would like to share your respectful thought at morbid on Instagram if you would like to share your respectful thought at morbid podcast. If you would like to share a respectful tweet on Twitter, go ahead. A morbid podcast. And if you would like to send us a respectful Gmail, go ahead. morbidpodcast.com.

We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're not so aware that you tour with a rock band and you're like, oh my god, I'm so good at drumming and then somebody finds you and you're like oh my god I'm so good at comedy and then you become a comedian and you're like oh my god I'm gonna have my own TV show but I'm not gonna look into any of the mental stability of the people that I'm gonna Have on the show and I'm gonna ambush the fuck out of them and then it's gonna turn out really badly And I'm gonna claim no responsibility really shouldn't give it that weird

Don't keep it that weird, too Bye Bye Shit I... shit. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash

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