Morbid - Episode 163: The Gruesome Murder of Brenda Sue Schaefer Part 2

Episode Date: August 14, 2020

For part two of this horrific murder case we dive even deeper into Mels past. We find out what it would actually be like to be married to this spaghetti Eddie, a former lover of his has lots more information than originally thought and of course Ash leaves us on another cliffhanger! See you next week for part three!! As always thank you to our sponsors! Hunt a Killer:  Just for our listeners you can go to HuntAKiller.com/MORBID and use promo code MORBID at check out for 20% off your first box. Careof: For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com/morbid50 and enter code morbid50 Upstart: hurry to Upstart.com/morbid to find out HOW LOW your Upstart rate can be. Checking your rate only takes a few minutes! Your loan amount will be determined based on your credit, income, and certain other information provided in your loan application. Not all applicants will qualify for the full amount. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wundery pod or text wundery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. You can host the best backyard barbecue. When you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around. Connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Inside to outside, repairs to renovations. Get started on the Angie app or visit Angie.com today. You can do this when you Angie that. Hey weirdos, I'm Alena. It's crazy. This case is nuts. This case is bananas. In fact, I was texting Elena this morning,

and I was like, this is gonna be a three-parter. And she was like, are you sure? Like, I don't know, like, could it be a three-parter? And I was like, girl, you know, let me tell you. There's so much we don't know. There's so much, there's a connection. I'm not gonna talk about it in this part, so like spoiler alert.

But there's a connection to Ben Rhodes in this case. That's crazy. It's just like a little small thing that I'll mention next week, but still. Weird. Nana. Robert Ben Rhodes keeps coming up in our, like, that's crazy. It's just like a little small thing that I'll mention next week, but still weird. Nana. Robert Ben Rhodes keeps coming up in our daily discussions every once in a while recently

and I don't really know what that means. Is he dead? I don't remember. I don't know if he's dead. Shit, I need to lick it up now. Yeah. I want to know if he's dead or not because like,

why is he popping up in our day to day lives? Yeah, I hope he's dead to be quite honest. I hope he's not popping up on like a truck stop in the air. Yeah, like, where is he? I don't even think we're near a truck stop. Guys, he's still alive. Well, fuck me, oh. He's 74 years old, but, you know, he's still,

he's still rotting away in prison, so. Oh, okay, so that's fine. So we good right now. What does it all mean? What does it all mean, everybody? Has anyone else had rubber bedroods come up in their daily lives lately? I bet you will now. You will.

Sorry. Sorry. Put it into the universe. Well, other than making sure that he's not coming up in your day-to-day lives, I don't think we have a lot of business. Yeah, I don't think we do either. I mean, the live shows were still in the same spot. Yeah.

Definitely all happened in next year. We're still working on some behind the scenes. Yeah, we have some fun like virtual live shows that will be coming up soon. So keep an eye in an ear out for that. Well update, as we go, we do have some fun live shows next year as long as everything goes according to plan that we're working on. As long as we can get rid of the cove code. Get rid of the rona, but you know, we're all working together here. We're doing it. We're doing the damn thing But we have some fun stuff coming up. So I think that's really it. All right. Well, do you remember Mel? Oh, oh, I remember Mel, Melignato, Melignato, and I believe when we left him he was like running through the house with like a bottle of

whiskey, was it? It was I don't know if I was I think I'm kind of in whiskey, I think you're right. It was alcohol and he was raging it as whiskey. I don't know why. Yeah, I feel like I pictured just a bottle of Jack, but no one mellows probably something he couldn't afford. So it was better than Jack. It was like, I don't know. A fancy whiskey.

I don't drink whiskey. And weas. So they talked to Dr. Spalding, they talked to Brenda's friends and her family, and then they had that interaction that they talked to doctors, balding, they talked to Brenda's friends and her family, and then they had that interaction that they had with Mel, which they were writing about. And the police and the FBI, yeah, the FBI is involved now. Of course the Fibba is involved.

The Fibba. They were in an ignorance that they had, they're dude. But they did not realize how hard it was going to be to get Mel Ignato, like borderline impossible. So they wanted to dive even deeper into his past and the FBI specifically so that they could kind of profile him and figure out his deal. And let me tell you, we're going to talk more about his like profile in part three.

Scary mother fucker. Mel is no joke. No Jizidi joke. That sounded much juggier than I thought it was. Jizidi joke. I don't like that. All right so gross. So to dive in to part two, they start talking to the women that Mel had previously been romantically involved with. Oh I want to hear from them. Well they had some shit to say. I'm shocked. So Mel had actually been married before and hit three children. Really? Two daughters at that. Wow. And a son obviously, but I was like, what?

Like you have daughters and this is how you treat women like real nice smell KK. So he was married to this woman named Sharon. Her name was Sharon Kippen and her and Mel her and Mel. I'm gross. She and Mel were married in her and male her and male They were married in 1960 and they were actually married for 13 years before they got separated lucky number 13 Yeah, it was not so lucky. What and maybe it was lucky that she got lucky for her to get out of there Yeah, so they separated in 1973 Sharon had a lot of shit to tell the investigators

and the FBI about Mal. Sharon spill that tea. Not only does she spill it, she's jumping glass after glass over their heads. Amazing. She said that Mal was very controlling, which we know. He considered himself to be her superior, which I think we know.

And he made all of the decisions for the household. Oh, that's no good. You got to be a team. You got to be a team. It's very important. It's especially when you have children, I think. Yeah. It's always important, but then when you have kids, it becomes even more important, because they need to see you as a unit. Exactly. Like we're not going to get anything past either of these people.

Exactly. You're a force field. No good cop ad cop. And then it's like even a relationship in any way, Exactly. We're not going to get anything past either of these people. Exactly. You're a force field. No good cop ad cop. And then it's like even a relationship in any way, especially when you're living together, you've got to be a team. And then like when marriage makes it legal, then you really got to be on the same team. Right. Or else you're going to end up losing some shit.

Just always be teammates. Just, you know, just do it. It's fun. It's a lords song, I think, team. Sure. Okay. I think it is. I think you're right. Yeah I don't I don't I would sing it but I don't know if it isn't so I'm pretty sure that that's way off They so back to Melody scary guy was he was super obsessed with what he looked like he like always needed a trendy hair cut Which I'm like you're ugly so like I get why you wanted your hair to look better

But we're doing a good job. though. No, like you're disgusting He he was obsessed with like what his hair looked like what he dressed like he wore a diamond ring and he wore gold chains If that's your thing cool, but you're a murderer. I was gonna say if you're a murderer and you wear those things not good It adds to the yeah, it's no good and I I'm sorry if you're a dude that wears a pinky ring But I just picture Mel with a pinky ring. Yeah, I'm not a big pinky ring person. If you are someone who wears one like, a preference is a preference.

It's just a preference, yeah, I'm not a dude. I'm like holding, sorry if you can hear my hands cracking in the background, I'm like, I'm like holding my pinky aggressively. She is. So yeah, he definitely wore a pinky ring. He wore, he definitely wore a diamond ring in gold chains But so like what a charred in the kids wear because he was really obsessed with appearances, right?

Yeah, he's so fancy. They must be too. No, no, you know where they got their clothes? K-Mart. They, which like K-Mart actually has some good stuff in the middle of it Of course, but when he's out there at like banana republic in frickin other expensive places Banana republic Is not an expensive place to shop? at like Banana Republic in frickin other expensive places. Banana Republic. Isn't that an expensive place to shop? I don't know. I guess. That was just a funny one for you to pull out of your butt.

I don't know. I think that's just like what I associate rich people with. Very high end Banana Republic. White House Black Market. Is that another one? I think so. I'm actually just saying stores that used to be in a like place where I worked. Like a shopping mall.

Oh yeah, that's where the rich people went. So I was like, I really liked the banana republic one. Sponsor us. So, which is, it's sad. They had to get their clothes from Kmart and he's out there wearing all his nice shit. Yeah. And if Sharon ran into any issues

where she needed more money, she had no choice but to ask Mel because he controlled all the finances. And I couldn't find that he gave her an allowance, but that's basically what it sounded like. Because- That is what it seems like. If you need more money, you have to come to me.

Right, exactly. So as far as I'm concerned, that's a fucking allowance. Yeah, and no thank you. So Mel would punish her for different things like that. Like if she asked for money more money, she would get punished. If she was slightly late to something, she would get punished. Or you can't punish your spouse. That's just not...

No, I don't even... I think that goes without saying it. You're not my parent. Like, no. No, like, thank you though. Like my parents weren't even good at that. So like, I don't know why you're trying. But, Mel's idea of punishment

was, this is, I'm actually going to give you a trigger warning because this is really fucked up. He forced her to have anal sex. Oh, yeah. What the fuck? That was his, yeah, he absolutely raped her. He literally raped her and satamized her as a punishment for being late to say. Exactly. Saw to me was the punishment. Mel literally go sit on a chainsaw. Like that's insane. I'm gonna give you honestly a trigger warning for the rest of the episode because it's so fucked up. Wow.

Sharon said that he wasn't, oh, I mean, I think she maybe had a different definition of violence because she said that he was only violent with her twice and she meant hitting. Yeah. But I mean. Well, she was probably so brainwashed. Absolutely.

Absolutely. That's what it is. That's violence. It's so Sharon said he hit her on two occasions in their marriage. Once he split her lip by hitting her. Jesus. And then the other time he bruised her arm really badly, she was done toward the end of their marriage, obviously.

Yeah. But when she asked Mel about getting a divorce, and also I think she was like, you don't love me, like why are we married to each other? Yeah. Like, can we just go? But for Mel, it was her wanting to get out of it, which is rejection, which these fuckers don't like,

because it's out of their control. So Mel, like, turned around and threatened to complete suicide if she divorced him. And then he stopped showing up to family events and stopped having dinner with them and shit, which they were probably like, we didn't want to eat dinner with you anyway. I know. Honestly, I'd be like, this is better. So thank you. So thank you very much. Thanks so much, Mel. So eventually he agreed to the divorce, thank God, and they were able to get divorced in 1973. Good.

But Mel did not go down without a fight. Of course not. And he got basically everything. He got full custody of the kids. So he is raping her and beating her. And somehow this fucker gets full custody of children. You obviously she must have been so scared of him that I think maybe this was the first time

she had told anybody in law enforcement what had happened to her. Oh, it's awful. But I think he, and we'll see the way that he has such control and hold on his victims. That it's like, it's like, it's so messed up. So not only did he get full custody of the children, he got their home and all the belongings in the home.

He got alimony from her. He got to keep all of his personal accounts, which is, I think that's rare for a divorce. What the fuck? And he got to keep his car, which was like an expensive car. People were like, what does he have on her that she, that he got the kids, especially the kids, because remember, this was the 70s.

And even now it's pretty rare that a father gets custody. But in the 70s, that was like on her stuff. Yeah. So people were like, what happened? Or like, what does he have on her? And what he had on her was fear. She was able to give a 12 page testimonial on what it was like being married to Mel to the FBI

That's horrifying. 12 pages and they that's like a horrific brief summary. Oh man. So imagine what else was in there. Oh man. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.

In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune,

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I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like

the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Laurie Valor, aka Mommy Doomstays Motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder. I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So after he got divorced like maybe like the day after it seems like he met this woman named Mary and Shore. Okay, who is a fucking flaming twat hole? I hate her and you're going to too. Oh good.

They met at, I think it's called Riscolo at a Riscolo store. Then it sounds like Riscolo was like a home goods kind of store. Like they sold like lamps and like ceramic things. Like it sounds like home goods. I love home goods kind of store, like they sold like lamps and like ceramic goods. Like it sounds like home goods. I love home goods. But then once it was around for longer, I guess it mostly focused on furniture. Oh, kind of it's pretty beside the point

that really doesn't matter because I was like awesome back to Mal, but just like, you know, I want you to, you set in the scene. Yeah, thank you. So act one, no, just kidding. Mel and Marianne, they both worked there and they hit it off. But Mel told people that he didn't have any interest really in dating Marianne or any respect for her.

He was just using her for sex. Oh, okay. But he would write her notes that were like what you would expect a high school boyfriend to like sex to you. Like he would write like weird creepy things on notes. I don't have any direct notes, but they were like icky. He was doing the thing that abusers do.

Right, like suck you in that way. Yes, exactly. Like they throw on the charm. Throw on the charm. And for her, it was like, she was a very different woman than Brenda Schaefer. Like Brenda Schaefer was like gorgeous, classic, elegant, beat like the best.

Yeah. Marianne was just a yucco. Just a yucco. So he was like, oh, I just have to send her like sexy notes to get her in. Whereas like Brenda, like he had to get her like some nice stuff. He really had to woo. Now it's okay for me to say this about Marianne

because she's horrible. Yeah, you'll agree. Yes, just wait. So he was like, yeah, I just used her for sex. But Marianne was smitten with Mel. Investigators kind of learned what the relationship was like. And it was a little more serious than what Mel had given it credit for. They were dating. Of course. And while he dated Marianne, remember, he has the custody of kids. She would just like watch his kids while he was away on business trips. because remember, he was like a traveling salesman. So he was gone for like six weeks at a time.

And this random lady would just be watching his children, watching his children, yep. And she was honestly just there to have an adult there, I guess, because she didn't cook for the kids. The housework was up to them. And then as they got older, they started noticing that their personal belongings were missing from the rooms.

Because she's a thief. She is a thief. On top of everything. Oh, she's just scum. She... So obviously she was stealing stuff from the kids, which that's messed up as is. And then the investigators started to hear similar things from the people in Mary Ann's life, not just the kids that lived with her. They heard she couldn't hold down a job, she was unreliable, she was manipulative. She actually once destroyed a typewriter at her job because she was like really pissed off about something, so she just decided that was a good idea, I guess. Take it out on a typewriter. Like what did that typewriter do to you? Nothing. So like I said, Mel might have just been using her for like sex and an in-house babysitter, but Mary-in felt much more for him.

Of course. She was basically like not just in love with him, she was obsessed with him. She would tell the kids that her and Mel were just waiting to get married until they were out of the house. So she was like, you need to get out of here so that I could marry your dad. And actually all of Mel's kids left when they were teenagers. So they left the house pretty early. I'm not shocked by that at all.

Imagine the house that they were living in. They'd probably get me the fuck outta here. Yeah. So ultimately, the couple, the sweet lovely couple broke up in 1984. Oh, they did. He did. And then now after Brenda goes missing,

the police showed up to talk to Mary, and they're like, I want more information on Mel. You seem crazy. Let's talk to you. Exactly. And she's like, oh, I haven't heard from Mel since April. And at this point, remember, it was like, Brenda went missing on the 24th of September.

So it was like late September, early October, when they're talking. And she's like, no, I haven't talked to him since April. Wrong. They also asked Maryanne about what she and Mel's sex life was together and she was like, we was pretty straightforward. Like, he wasn't into bondage or anything.

He'd never laid a hand on me. He was never violent or angry. He was great. He was an angel. Very vanilla. Very, I almost had very vanilla. Bervinilla. Very vanilla.

They did learn though that the breakup was not, maybe it was amicable in Mel's eyes, but Mary Ann was just like following Mel everywhere he went. Oh, okay. So, very normal. Donna, who's Mel's oldest daughter, remembered seeing Mary Ann from time to time, just sitting outside their house in her car watching them. Oh yeah, you don't do that to all your exes? No, just, no.

I mean, I did, like maybe once or twice, but then I was like, I guess I got to stop doing this now. I should probably stop. I got caught, that's what it was. My ex's daughter, Sami. Otherwise, you would just kept doing it. Yeah, of course. Donna Sami.

Totally kidding, that's fucked up, don't do that. No. So at this point, the police wanted to do a formal interview with Mel because they're like, okay, like your ex-wife had a lot to say about you. Marianne has like nothing bad to say about you, but Marianne's shady AF. Let's talk to you again. In this time, this is like the first actual formal interview. So he and we're remember now he has an attorney. So he and Charlie Rickets went down to the police

station. Charlie Rickets. That's a pretty good name. I feel like you have to say it like that. Also, Charlie Rickets used to be like a reporter. So he's a very interesting attorney. Of course he's a reporter as well. Yeah. Go to old Charlie Rickets. Nothing the scoop. Not that there's anything wrong with

reporters. I'm just saying he was a different kind of lawyer. No, and you know what if if you're a reporter and you're listening, I'm sorry, some reporters are shitheads. Sorry, no, sorry. The way it is, the way it is. So they go down the police station,

they're like, we're gonna ask you some questions. So all the way there, Mel was perfectly fine. While they were setting up, Mel was perfectly fine. They hit that fucking tape recorder and started recording everything and Mel was like, oh man, he marital street did. He marital street did the shit out of it. Like, let's give him an Oscar, except no. He became super emotional about Brenda's disappearance. He was like sobbing and the investigators were like, okay, we're going to pause this so you can calm down. Yeah, okay.

Calm down pretty quickly. Put the tears back on when they started back up again, but a little more composed this time, you know. Does he have like little vapor drops like in his block where you can just be like, dripped, dripped, dripped? No, I just start crying. I literally think he's just so psychopathic

and terrifying that he can just like, he can just tap into these things he needs when he needs. He can just, ooh. And there it is. A snap at a snap. But no snaps for a male. No. So as he's being questioned,

and they're just asking him regular questions about Brenda, like, can you tell us again, what did you do that day? Like, just regular ass shit. He's fidgeting, he's moving his glasses on and off. He's twirling his creepy ass mustache. And he is offering up suspects left and right. Ooh, I feel like that's always a...

It's always weird that you're like... It's always gonna throw an antenna up. Wasn't me, it was these five people. Let me break out a list of people I think it could be. And he did. He said maybe it was Jim Rush. Maybe. Because he has a drug problem. Did you know that? You should look into his drug problem.

Or maybe it was Charlie Van Peltz since he never got over that divorce from Brenda. Never. Yeah, no. It had to have been him. But you know what, on second thought, maybe it was Dr. Spalding. He's really upset about Brenda.

I think there might have been more to their relationship. I think, you know. So, I know I'm sitting here right now, but I'm pretty upset, so I'm gonna go. And I just want you to have that information. Thank you, Mel. Thank you. So much. They all he also changed his story and he said, which it wasn't like a huge change, but it's worth noting that he changed the story. And he said that they actually hadn't gone to that housing development before. That was the weekend before Brenda disappeared. And he just wanted to let them know in case they looked into that

Oh, because look how thorough I am and truthful I'm very honest. I actually reviewed my notes that I read from and I realized that was stated wrong Wow Well also find out that Mel writes shit down like literally writes everything down like Everything because he knows he's gonna have to cover a shit all the time and he's just a psychopath because he knows He does shit wrong all the time, so he's like, I should probably always have my stuff covered. Exactly.

So Tom Schaefer, Brenda's brother, remember we talked about, he was the one that was married to Linda, who was trying to help Brenda get out of this. He agreed to meet Mel on multiple occasions, wearing a wire, just to see if he could... I don't think they thought they were gonna get anything like a confession, but they just needed more, maybe like a slip up or something else.

Just anything else. Yes, anything else. And they did, they'd got a few things. Ooh. So Tom actually had gone out himself to where Brenda's car was found like on the highway. He went out one Saturday night around the time that she was supposed to have last been seen.

And he was like, I just don't buy that she was kidnapped on this highway at like 11.30 at night. Like on a Saturday night, if you think about even around here, a Saturday night at 11.30, the highway is still pretty bustling. Like there's no traffic, but there's still plenty of cars going by. Yeah. And he noticed on this particular highway, there was plenty of cars going by. He. And he noticed on this particular highway, there was plenty of cars going by.

He was like, somebody would have seen something. Yeah, he would think somebody would have seen something strange. Right. Exactly. So he tells Mel this one night when they're out the diner and he's, Mel is like visibly shaken. He's like, you went out there? Like, you were there?

And he's like, well, yeah, like I went out there like last weekend. He's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, I thought you meant like you were out there that specific Saturday and I was like worried for you. It's like worried for you. Worried for you. Oh, okay. Meanwhile, you just thought that he saw something. That's what it was.

So caring, Mel. Tom was like, no, you're dumb. I went out there afterwards to see what I could find. So I don't know how Tom sat through these meetings with Mel and neither did the FBI. They were like, I don't know how you didn't just punch that dude in the face for what he says. Because he was so clearly.

So clearly the guy. So clearly the guy and also just the shit that he says, it's just so aggravating. So one night they're sitting there together after telling Tom he just didn't know how he was going to live the rest of his life without Brenda. Oh, please. You're talking to her brother. Yeah. You don't know how he was going to live the rest of his life without Brenda. Oh, please. Like, you're talking to her brother.

Yeah. You're like, you don't know how you're going to live your life? Like, what about her brother? And it's like, we know you, man. Right. So after sitting there telling him that, he pulls out a list out of his pocket. And this list has Brenda's assets, all of her assets, and everything they were worth. And he had everything written down.

Tom was like stunned. What? He knew how much he knew the worth of literally everything, what she had in all her accounts, what she had enchored her jewelry for. He had totals for the furs that she had, like her fur coats she had a couple. And he also knew that she had been making payments

on this grandfather clock that she really wanted. They had found it in like Tennessee and she like loved it. So she was making payments on it. He knew what that was worth. And he not only knew the values of everything, but he also knew who Brenda wanted everything to go to. Like he was acting like this was a will.

Which, wow. Remember Brenda disappeared out of nowhere so this was was a will. Which, wow. Remember Brenda disappeared out of nowhere so this was not a will? Wow. Yep. And of course he was like, I just want to see everything go to who she would have wanted it to go to.

And Tom's like, yeah, she, we don't know that she's dead yet. I was just gonna say they haven't even discovered that she's been killed yet. Exactly. And that's a problem. So he's sitting there telling Tom this and I'm like, I cannot believe that my sister had been gone

for a few weeks and you're basically reading her will to me. You've killed her. Like you've killed her like, you know, figuratively. And remember, he had said to the older sister, I just know she's dead. And that's when Linda was like, Oh, I just know that you did it then.

Mm-hmm. So it's like the, either way the last thing I'd be thinking of is assets. No, but obviously, when you think of Meli, or of course he was thinking of the assets. So he tells Tom, she wanted the jewelry, and I think one of the first to go to me. So if we don't find her, I'm happy to take that from the life insurance.

Oh, you are? I'll take that off your hands. Oh, that's so nice. Like, what? He's so helpful. What? And then as after he did all of that, he's like, and by the way,

I think Van Pelt has something to do with this. I think we were calling him Pete in the beginning. He went by Pete, not Charlie. He's like, I think the police need to be looking into him a lot more. All of a sudden, he's like, guys, I got the guy. And it's like, okay, no. And actually, no, thank you, Mel. Charlie Van Pelt, they be looking into him a lot more. All of a sudden, he's like, guys, I got the guy. And it's like, okay, no. And actually, no, thank you, Mel.

Charlie Van Pelt, they did look into him because they were like, you know, he was her ex-husband. Yeah. He actually had an alibi for the night, Brenda went missing. He was working at the police department. So there's a lot of people there. It's pretty decent, Alabama.

He was working there until close to midnight. And then right after that, he went to his second job as a security guard where he worked until like six in the morning. So he was literally covered that entire night. The entire night. I mean, they weren't able to like make sure that he was like in his car

and there was no witnesses saying he was sitting in his like security job car, but they were like, that's a pretty tight alibi. Yeah, it definitely is. Then there's a few room for. Yeah, there's definitely room, but they were like, he's not our guy. But it's a good one. Yeah. They checked out the alibi and timestamps checked out for Dr. Spalding because Dr. Spalding was like, I was actually in

Tennessee the night that Brenda went missing. I think his daughter was like in a horse show like she was riding a horse or something. And he had stayed in a hotel there. So they that checked out completely. And then they checked into Jim Rush, the billboard sweetheart. Yes, Jim. He was the only one who didn't have an airtight alibi. Oh, Jim.

He had just been at home. But at least he was there to take that member of Bessie, oh my god, Essie called out like four in the morning. Oh, yeah. So he was there to take that phone call. So it was like, I feel like that would have been weird. And they were like, we just, we know that our guys mal like, I don't know. So they did keep Jim on the list as a potential suspect, but they really didn't

think he had anything to do. Yeah. I mean, it's good that they kept him on the list because if you can't like, you can't rule them all out down that alibi. It's like, we can't say he wasn't exactly. And also, I don't know if I mentioned it in a part one. There was four jurisdictions on this case. So there's four separate police departments and the FBI, but I have to say, they didn't really fuck anything up, it seemed like. Wow, that's actually very rare.

Like I think they did a, I think because the FBI was brought in so early, maybe that's why. Maybe they were able to like kind of cohesively get everybody together. Right. Usually when it's even just two jurisdictions, it's like it's so messed up. Yeah, we've seen it how many times have we seen it?

We've seen it a million times. But they did a good job. So yada yada yada, all those people have alibis. Also, I'm just gonna say this now, because I didn't really know where to fit this in later. Jim ends up dying. No. Yeah, I think he died like right before

they found Brenda's body of, he was like, had a lot of heart problems. Well, that's sad. And when he died, they actually took DNA from him and he was rolled out as a suspect. Oh. So he had absolutely nothing to do with this.

Oh, that sucks though. So sad. And he died like still being like a person of interest at least. A person of interest and not know, he was not knowing. And not knowing. So in person of interest at least. A person of interest and not knowing. He was not knowing. So in love with him. Remember they were gonna start things back up again. And not knowing if she was alive or not.

Or if she was ever gonna be found. He had no idea. Oh, that's really sad. And he and member Brenda was upset that he was a drinker. I think he was a drinker before and then I think after she disappeared. He continued it and probably did so more. Yeah, I'm sure. That's sad. It is sad. So they go back to check on Brenda's car, which has now, like, has been processed as evidence.

And they noticed that her driver's seat was pushed all, like, super, super back. Like, somebody very tall had been driving her car. And remember, she was 5'3". Yeah. So they put somebody in the car that was exactly 5'3". She couldn't even reach the brake pedal, which it extends out more than the gas. So it's like, no. No, this does not work. And then I don't know if you remember the tire was flat on her car. So they found out that that even caused by a nail. But the nail had been previously either put into the tire or run over and the tire had slowly been losing air. So that wasn't something that was punctured right then and there.

They said actually that the tire could have been losing air for like either a hundred to like a thousand miles. Oh wow. And that it went flat after it had been parked. And it was probably just like, and it was just the pressure of it sitting there. Exactly. So there like things are weird with her car.

Like, she wouldn't have been able to drive this herself. No, like somebody was clearly in that car. Somebody was clearly in that car. And then they kind of figured that the break in might have happened after it had been placed there. Like, they don't think it was the stage that way. They think somebody actually tried to break into it, but that makes sense.

I don't think her body was ever there. And actually, it wasn't. but that makes sense. I don't think her body was ever there. And actually it wasn't. I can tell you. I don't think so. The family was trying to get any information anywhere they could. Tom and Linda actually traveled to Tennessee where Brenda had bought that clock just to kind of talk to the guy and hang up posters around there. Cause they're well, she's been here. She's doing stuff.

And the so Tom is talking to the guy about the clock, and he actually knew how much Brenda loves the clock, so he continued to make the payments on it, just in case she ever came back, that she would still have the clock. The sweetest thing I've ever heard. Like, brother. Brother.

Her brothers are like, are gonna make you cry at multiple times throughout this story. Oh man. So he talks to the guy that sold Brenda the clock and this guy's like, oh yeah, that guy that was with her was a total nut, a screw ball. I couldn't talk to your sister. He would dominate.

I could talk to him and nobody else. Oh, so they're like, I think she bought that clock with Mel. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. Who does that sound like? So all these tips are rolling in and everyone's like, no, I saw Brenda here at that time. No, no, I saw her here. Of course.

And like, waitresses were like, I served her that night and she looked just stressed. Positive. Which is like everybody was lying there. And see her. Of course not. Which is frustrating. Yeah, come on. And it was making an already challenging investigation

even more challenging. Of course, a psychic came through because that always happens with these big cases. Oh, you got it. You always get mad at what they say. And I'm getting mad at it. That's not usually true. I'm not used to it. They said that Brenda had been murdered and was in a plastic bag, in a 55 gallon drum

that was buried in some place that was wet. So divers had been searching for Brenda's body. They were searching the Ohio Ohio River for hours and hours and days. Like, I think it was 80 hours total and they couldn't come up with anything. Yeah, because she wasn't in there. But one day they were diving pretty close to a spot where Mel was known to take his boat fishing and they came across a 55 gallon bag with holes in it and a plastic bag inside of it. Oh, you mean a drum? Yes.

What did I say? A 55 gallon bag. A 55 gallon drum and it had a plastic bag inside of it. Which is exactly what the psychic said. And it was in a spot where Mel, like was known to fish. Oh, all right, psychic. You know what? They, and they were like, oh, like this mouse speed Brenda,

they opened it up empty. But how weird, like how weird is that coincidence? Like it's like the complete exact same measurements in a spot where Mel was known to be. Yeah, that's weird. Unless she put it there herself, the psychic. Which, I mean, it's a lot of work to go to. That would be a lot.

Yeah, I don't think she did, but that's crazy. Bananas. Wow. The police, they had to keep getting more information because this investigation was so challenging because like they knew that Mel did it, but there's nothing to get him. They just couldn't pin it on them. There's no, first of all, there's no body,

so that makes things 10 times harder. Always. There's no nothing. Yeah. There's nothing. But what there is is all these people that they keep talking to and they keep connecting Mel and Mary Ann together. Mary Ann sure the twat lady. The twat lady.

What? Joyce Smallwood, Brenda's friend who had actually set her up with Mel in the first place. We talked about her. Oh yeah. She went to a hairdresser named Lauren and Lauren was also Mel's hairdresser and also Mary Ann's hairdresser. Oh, we got to talk to Lauren and we do. Oh, good. Lauren told investigators that she knew for a fact. Are you ready? I don't know if I'm ready. I was just going for it. I was like, are you ready? That. Are you ready? Because it's coming. Are you ready for this jelly? Are you guys ready? I'm ready now. Okay, sorry. Took me a second, put them ready. Mel had been having sex with Marianne the entire time that he was dating Brenda. Gross! The entire time! That's a really gross smell. It's a really gross smell and Marianne. Also,

like how are you going to do Brenda like that? She was beautiful and wonderful. How dare you. As a twat lady. How dare you. How dare you. How dare you. And I just, and also, Marianne. Get some self-respect. Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like, come on. She was constantly following him and had, like, we'll get into later.

She knew he was with Brenda. Yeah, that's gross. It's like, it's gross on post of you. Don't be doing that. You're both gross. Lauren had a lot to say. She also told them just how obsessed Marianne was, still was with Mel. So remember, they, uh, Donna, Mel's daughter had said like,

I saw her outside the house. That was when they first broke up in 1984. Okay. This is 1989 that he's dating Brenda. She, Maryann is still following him everywhere. Girl. Everywhere. She would drive up to that and also, you're telling your hairdresser

this like, I'm a hairdresser. I've been told some crazy shit. Well, I was gonna say, when you were like, the hairdresser had all the shit, I was gonna be like, the hairdresser always has all the shit. A hairdresser, of course. But like, you can always count on a hairdresser to tell you the hot costs. I've been told some crazy shit, like I just said. I've never been told anything like this.

If my client told me that they were driving to their old man's house and like watching him in his new gal, I'd be like, huah, huah. But you don't know how long Lauren has been a hairdresser. That she could be one of those seasoned vets that hears like murder confessions and shitton is just like, weren't we're just like like in confessional at church. Can you imagine if I had a murder confession, you know, you know, you know, no 40 years down the road you could. I know. I people get real comfy with

their hairdressers. I want that to happen. I've been told some I should do an episode on some stuff that I had. That's right in the beginning of your career. I know. Think about it. Decades later. Oh, I got told crazy shit in hair school. Yeah. So who knows? Lauren could be one of those that

just hears it all now. She might. Well, she had some advice for Maryanne. She was like, you're not in love. You're obsessed. Yeah. You gotta stop. Very different. Very, love and obsession are two different things.

Watch that movie with Beyoncé. Do it. Beyoncé was the one he loved. That other lady? Obsessed. Yeah. Has it a title? Was it?

Obsessed. That blonde girl? Yeah, I don't know her name. I knew her name, but I can't remember it. It doesn't matter because she's the crappy one. She's the top lady. She is the top lady. Nobody cares about the top lady's name It's true, you know, so she's like yeah, you're obsessed you got a chill stop and Maryam was like no So she kept going to different clubs. No, no, she's like also that layer is a little too long Can you can I put that up? She got going to different clubs and bars just to watch him.

And she just, she kept it going. And they looked more into Mary Ann's past. And they saw Mary Ann, not only, like she was a shady character when they first looked in, then they did a double look in. And there were actually warrants out for Mary Ann's arrest. That is the least shocking thing I've heard all year. Honestly.

Five warrants out for this girl's arrest because she had been writing bad checks. I feel like that's like hand in hand. It's also just the lamest thing to get a war in front. A war in front. It's always like when they're doing this kind of stuff and you're like, wow, you're shady, you're scary, you're starting to be, all of a sudden you look back

and you're like, and you wrote bad checks. It's always in there somewhere in the history. I know a lady that writes a lot of bad checks. Yeah, and they're usually, it escalates from there. It makes sense. So, where'd she been writing these bad checks? Where? Camart is a running theme in the story.

Wow, Camart. Camart. A bad check to Camart for something. I don't have the exact amount, but it was like 20 bucks. Wow. Like you're writing a bad check for 20 dollars. Like is it worth it? And I think there was only like two or three bad checks that she wrote. And none of the amounts were

over like none of the exceeded $50. They were so significant at all. No. So it's like why? That if it doesn't feel worth it for the consequences that are going to hit you. Right. At all. Like what do you need? And she didn't have any kids, right? No. So it's like, what could really be worth that? Like you were buying like formula for your child and you were like, you know what? Cronsickquence is be damned. I'll write this one.

I'll write this. She was buying like a shower curtain that came out and she was like, the debit funds haven't hit. So I need that shower curtain. I guess. Wow. So, but that I say so a lot. And I'm sorry for it. I do too, don't worry. But So, but that I say so a lot, and I'm sorry for it.

I do too, don't worry. But so, that's what the police were like, this is what we can get her on. Like, we can hold her on this. Yeah, because it's a crime. And keep her in for longer. So they're like, we're gonna go out there and we're gonna go question her again.

And actually, she agreed to do a polygraph. Even though they couldn't use it in court, they were pretty happy because she flunked the shit out of the polygraph test. And I feel like that's always just like a good, because I've said it before that it's like, you know, about as useful as a hot dog in a trench coat, but it's a nice little jumping off point.

It is. It looks like you're getting a little nervous. So what's like? When it starts playing on that. We can go from here. It's a psychological game. And this play. Yeah, this polygraph wasn't just about the bad checks

that she had written, it wasn't just about K-Mart. Of course it wasn't. And this, yeah, this polygraph wasn't just about the bad checks that she had written. It wasn't just about K-Mart. Of course it wasn't. They were asking her things like, so do you know anything about Brenda Schaefer's disappearance that you're not telling us? And she was like, no, and they were like, lies.

And they were like, looks like this needle is saying something different. And I think this needle is spinning a tail. Jumping, jumping, jumping. Jumping, jumping. And then needle was jumping, jumping. Back to Beyonce. I know. All roads leave. a tail, jump and jump and jump and jump and jump and jump and back to Beyoncé. I know. All roads lead to Beyoncé too.

So she takes this polygraph test where she just lies and lies and lies and she's like after it's done she's like I want to leave. Maybe of course. And they're like you know what we don't want to jump and jump in too quickly so they let her go. Yeah because you can't hold her technically. They could have, because they had the warrants out for her. Oh yeah, I forgot that day had that.

But they were like, it's too soon to use that. We gotta keep that. You gotta use that as your card that you throw at the end. You gotta keep it close to the chest. I love when you say that. So they let her go. And before she went, she made a couple phone calls. And they were like, oh, she went 100 made a couple phone calls and they were like,

oh, she went 100% fucking called Mel and was like, oh yeah, they're on to us. Oh yeah. And they were pretty sure they knew for a fact that it was him. So they dropped Mary Ann. Mary Ann. Mary Ann. They off. Oh my god.

Yeah, right. No. You got this. They drop. They drop. Stop drop and roll. Get the tuck and roll out of this car, beach. No, they drop Mary Ann off at the house

where she was a live-in babysitter. I just want you to stow that in your fucking memory that this lady is in charge of children. That horrifies me in ways I can't explain, just wait. But they decide they drop her off, but they're gonna keep tabs on her. They're not fucking going anywhere. Hell yeah, I'm watching Mary Ann.

Me too. I got my eyes on you. Uh, yeah. That sounds like a song. I'm watching Mary Ann. Maybe it is. Yeah. They drop her off, they watch her.

It's great. Guess who fucking shows up together? Walking in the rain. Taking a nice romantic walk together. Walking in the rain. No straight up walking in the rain. Oh, like a legit like marine five video. Yes. Okay. Except uglier. I'm gonna say Mel and Mary Ann. No straight up walking in the rain. Oh, like a legit like marine five video.

Yes, okay, except uglier. I'm gonna say Mel and Mary Ann walking in the rain together. Oh, I got it, dignity name. So they're like, hmm, what could Mary Ann be talking to him about and what could Mel be scaring her into not saying? What could this cinematic scene tell us? Cinematic. Mary Ann was cracking.

They knew that's why she was meeting with Mel. Oh yeah, like she's losing her shit. She's trying to be like, we gotta go tell them they're onto us, they're closing in, I'm scared. What do we do? Her shit is being held together by very fragile webs of fabric to begin with. Yes.

You start like poking at it, it's just gonna be like, all the bad checks just get shredded up a paper shredder. So that's it is holding that together. So they're like, you know what? We were holding this earlier today to close to our chest, but it's getting hot in here. So they arrested her right then there in that romantic...

No, rain? Rainwalk. That's great. And this sounds like a movie. Very film noir. Mel's like, just cooperate, Maryann. You don't have to tell the many thing. And they're both reaching for each other as the rain

pelt's down on their disgusting faces. You would think that, but you know that male like, tripped her while they were handcuffing her just to make it easier. Because he's like, I hate you and I hate that I involved you in this. But don't tell them shit. But don't tell the many thing. I feel like shut up. He's also like, cooperate with them, but don't tell the many thing.

Cooperate with the police, but don't tell them shit. But lie to them. So, Marianne is arrested right then and there. They book her on five outstanding warrants that she had, and she's like, I want an attorney. And they're like, we figured. So like, you know what? That's probably good mood.

That's probably a good mood. Moot. It is a good mood. It's very much a mood. I'd like an attorney. Her brother a mood. Mood. It is a good mood. It's very much a mood. I'd like an attorney. Her brother moved. A mood. Her brother was able to get her an attorney.

It's Jack Vitatow. I hope I'm saying that right. If you're not, that should be his name, because that's a cool last name. I'm going to call him Jack, because Vitatow was hard to say. And I'm probably saying it wrong. And it's not whatever. This story's great.

Don't yell at me for just that. So Jack thought that this was gonna be pretty cut and dry case. He's like, okay, like bad checks. I can do that. I'm Jack. I'm Jack. I'm Jack for the town.

I can do this. Boy was Jackie boy wrong. So no. Jack brings her to the Aramans the next day and she got sentenced to like a fine and some parole time. I didn't even bother looking into that shit. Cause who gives a shit? Not me, but what I do give a shit about is that

an FBI agent stopped marrying in and jacking the hall of the courthouse and they were like, hey, we want to like bring you back in for questioning and where would that, the Fibby? So who would the Fibby? So Jack is like, what the fuck? Like why did the FBI want to talk to her about a $20 Kmart bad check? Oh, a poor Jack. He's like, what the fuck? Like why did the FBI want to talk to her about a $20 Kmart bad check?

Oh, a poor Jack. He's like, hua? So he's like, I'm not ready. I wasn't ready for this jelly. Wow. I know. It keeps leading. And it's natural.

It's natural and it's actually very organic. So he's like, yeah, well, this is not good. So he's like, hey girl, what haven't you told me do you want to spill a little bit? And she's like, yeah, so I used to date this guy and like, his girlfriend is missing. And I have nothing to do with it, but like people think that I have something to do with it.

And I don't know nothing. I don't know anything at all, but Mel, well, I love him. You know? She's like, it's so annoying. You know how that is, right? Yeah. It's like, you know when that happens on a Friday after work and you're just tired

and you don't wanna deal with it? Everybody understands this. It's just like one of those things in life. Yeah, that's why I didn't tell you. I just didn't feel like dealing with it today. Yeah, it's no big deal. I had plans to go to Kmart. Just read a check for $15.

Read a check for $15, because I just really liked that pillow. Yeah. And he's like, oh, fuck what have I gotten myself into. But while that's going on, let's get back to Mel. What's everyone's gonna do in? I've been dying to know what Mel's doing. Mel was dating around and living his life.

Oh, he's out on the town. In fact, Mel had been dating people again just six weeks after Brenda had gone missing. You know, he's so upset. So upset. He's a shoulder to cry on. And he actually like spins that tail for himself and people buy that, which is still upset

about to this day. Yeah, because I, you know, I just found out about this a few weeks ago. So I'm still upset. I'm still upset to this day. To this day. Since the 70s, I've been upset about this. My half.

Everyone else was affected, obviously, terribly. Brenda's family for one. Yeah. But also Dr. Spalding, who she used to work for. All. Dr. Spalding was becoming increasingly paranoid. And he feared that Mel was going to come after him. Because remember, he told the police some crazy shit

about Mel. He threw his name in the ring. Right. He was so scared that he literally ran drills in the office where like, he was like, Mel's gonna break in. What are we gonna do? I kind of love that. Like, I feel bad that he was so paranoid. So, yeah. But like, good on him. I feel like that's a specific type of brain that works that way. That's like, it's like when you and I go to the

movies and we're like, a scape route before the previews. Where we go. Like, that's just smart. Like, that's just, you know what, you're looking at the situation, you're saying he's a crazy person, he's been spewing all this stuff about me, things could get crazy and even if they don't, at least we're prepared. It's type A preparation. And I respect that.

And I'm here for it. So he's like, what happened? So remember Joyce Smallwood, who sat them up, she worked at the office with her. Oh yeah. So she's still working there. And he had her carry an eight millimeter in her desk. Always.

In case Mel was to come in. Yeah. And you know what you got to do. He was carrying a gun himself, and they were prepared to protect themselves. Should anything happen. He was literally like doing, like going and taking like target. What's that called?

Target, like a... Target practice. Target shooting. He was doing that. He was doing that thing where you shoot a gun at a target. Yep, I know guns. He was also this is like the super paranoid part that's just sad. He was constantly hearing footsteps behind him. Oh, constantly calling the police to report like potential break ins when there was actually no break ins. Oh man. And things like that. He was so invested in the case, and he just wanted to see justice so badly that he set

up a reward fund himself for any information on Brenda's case. Doctor Spalding. I love him so much. Oh man. He just wanted justice. Like that's the thing. So he cared so much about getting information, that he actually asked the police, like, what would happen to me if I ever sent a letter to Mel?

And they were like, well, like, what are you gonna say in the letter? And he read the letter to them and they were like, doctor, don't do that, because we're gonna have to put you in jail and you're gonna have to pay a fine. Oh, no. And he was like, well, I really don't want to pay a fine, but like, I'd be fine doing jail time because I could use the rest.

I, I kind of get that. I feel like you do that. You know what? As someone who is tired right now, I could use the rest. I kind of get that. I feel like you do that. You know what? As someone who is tired right now, I'm like, yeah. I could use the rest. I could use the rest. And they were like, yeah, don't sign that letter. And he was like, okay.

Okay. And they sent the letter. Of course he did. He's looking for that rest. Yeah. So the letter was not written from scalding, but instead a Floridian drug lord who was going to send Cubans after Mel if Mel did not give up information, all like the information that he had about Brenda.

Wow, that's a lot. It's very intense and that was a very brief summary. If you would like to know more about that, you should read the book Double Jeopardy by Bob Hill. Wow. Thank you. So, it was Balding had the letter sent from Florida to make it look real, but Mel figured it out somehow and he pressed charges for Terroristic threatening Because I'm unfortunately it is

Fortunately, my kind of is it is it all works out don't worry. Yeah, I hope so doctor's balding in the meantime checked himself into a psychiatric hospital because he was just like Really having a tough go at it. Yeah, he was losing weight. He had shrunk. Oh, yeah. And he was like, he went into space for a year. It is. I think he did essentially. He technically did. He was like a shell of himself. Oh. He just wanted information about Brenda because I think he ends up saying that because everybody's like, why did he love Brenda so much? It's like kind of weird. But I think she was like a daughter to him. Yeah. Really? Like, I think people are like a daughter to him, really.

Like I think people are being bitchy about it. Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, I get it, but. And you know what, if something was going on, whatever. When what do you want your boss to care about you that much? Yeah. I would hope. I would hope my boss would.

You're kind of my boss, so you would care. Yeah, anyways, Spalding stayed in the hospital for a month and he was diagnosed. That was a loud, scared to shake. I'm sorry. He was diagnosed as a bipolar and he had manic depression. Oh, I know. Well, we see God help.

He did. He stayed in the hospital for a month and I already said that. But while he was in the hospital, Mel was weighing his options of also, because remember, he already pressed charges for the terroristic threats. Now, he's like, I could do a civil suit, and I could definitely win that, and then I would be able to pay Marianne, hush money.

Oh, yeah, so. He's like weirdly cunning. He's so cunning. Like, I don't love that. I hate it. I hate it when they're like, kind of smart in that evil way. It's like, oh oh it's really shitty So on August 8th

1989 Dr. Spalding was found guilty on charges of terroristic threatening. Oh man, Dr. Spalding But because of the circumstances surrounding the case, he only had to pay $300 fine. Oh hey, yo. Because I think people felt bad for him. I would. And something good came from this case.

Oh good. That something good was the fact that Scott Cox, who was a US attorney, he had been sitting through the trial. I think he was a consulting with one of the other lawyers. There's a lot of lawyers at trials. Yeah. And while Mel was on the stand explaining I think he was a consulting with one of the other lawyers. There's a lot of lawyers at trials. Yeah. And while Mel was on the stand explaining how hurt he was by Brenda's disappearance and how it had ruined him, Scott just felt that there was something not right about this dude. And

he was like, I got a feeling. I want to do more. And then the Brenda Shafer's case actually ended up on his desk. Oh. So he got an idea when this happened. And he's like, I'm going to go talk to Charlie Ricketts. Oh, good old Charlie Ricketts. You always got to go talk to Charlie. Scott's idea was to get a grand jury investigation going where they could put Mel on the stand. And Scott was hoping that he would somehow be able to trip Mel up or the jury would kind of like feel the same as he did about the slime bell that is the slime bell that is now, you know, that's slimy bell, that's male. But so Scott's idea, he sold the idea of rickets as a way for Mel to clear his name.

He's like, I believe he like totally like schmooze this guy. Oh, yeah. But now Mel, he's like, yeah, I think he's, you know, innocent. And I think this is a great way for him to prove it. And Charlie Rickets is like, I think he's innocent and I think this is a great way for him to prove it. And Charlie Rickets is like, I think you're right. Like thank you for caring about my clients so much. Oh, Charlie Rickets. And Scott's like, I care.

I care so much, Charlie. He didn't give a fuck. Of course he didn't. He was like, well, he testified really well during the case against Dr. Spalding, so that's why it's going to be good for him. But he had plans to take Mel down on the stand and get him to crack. And then if he didn't get Mel to crack,

he was like, I have a plan to get Mary Ann to testify so that I can get her to fucking crack, because that lady's gone crack. He's like, I'd really just like an omelet today. I really would. And crack, she fucking did. I am not shocked. Mel, unfortunately, did a really good job

of making himself look like a victim while he was on the stands. I figured. Just like in the Spalding case, he pushed the tale forward that he was a broken man who was financially and emotionally ruined. I'm a broken man. I'm broken. I'm a shella myself.

And when he was asked about his sexual relationship with Maryanne, he said, you just need a companionship after Brenda was gone. Because I was so feel better. Oh, hello. That's what the doctor prescribed. Gross. After he testified, he did this super big press conference outside the courthouse, and he said, and I quote,

I hope in some way this will help the investigative officers to redirect their case in an effort to try to find my fiance and find out what happened and who was involved. It's not, don't worry, Mel, it will help them. That's what I have to say to you, shit stain. It's not gonna lead them elsewhere, I'd say that much.

So he was like, I'm not worried, but he was worried. He was worried that Mary Ann was getting on the stand. Oh yeah. And a couple weeks before she was supposed to get on the stand, he actually basically overdosed. He mixed too much vodka with Valium, and he ended up in the hospital. Oh, so the investigators were like,

was this a suicide attempt? Now, I don't really think it was a suicide attempt because I think he's too vain to kill himself. Yeah, I think so too. I feel like those people typically, that's pretty off the cuff for them. Yeah, I feel like he's out of the norm. I mean, he's too, I feel like, I don't know.

He's too cocky to do that. He's too cocky with this. He thinks he's gonna get away with this. He does not think he's gonna be caught. Right, I think he thought he was in full control, but I think he knew the holds that he had on Marianne too, and he didn't think she would turn on him, but he was worried about it, at least a little bit.

That makes sense. But that's also a very stupid mistake to make because it makes him look guilty. Exactly. So it's like, I don't know. Also, maybe he just did that because maybe he was stressed and like took some volume and he is walking into places,

holding like big old things of alcohol. So maybe that was just a coincidence. That's what I think it was an accident. I don't think it was inculcated. I don't think he was trying to, you know, a complete suicide and I don't think he did it and didn't do it in the right tension. You know what I mean? Like, didn't complete it.

Yeah. I think it was just, he was drinking, he probably took some value, I mean, he probably fucked it up. Exactly. I agree with that. So to make himself feel better, Mel joined a church and he got himself baptized.

All right, that fixes everything. Of course it does. Some of the people in the church were absolutely horrified and they were actually mad because they felt like he was making a mockery of their religion, which he was. Because he's literally being like, okay, dunk me in this holy water

and now everything's fine and I didn't do it. Right, like I'm, what is it? Absolved of my sins? Yeah, I'm, yeah. I is it? Absolved of my sins? Yeah. For you to be obsessed. So he became close to one woman who later came forward and told investigators that he called her one night to talk to her about their faith. And this is what he said to her. He basically said, hypothetically, let's say that I did kill Brenda Shefer. Wouldn't the state, she like shouldn't the state do what God has done and just forgive? And the lady was like,

yeah, wouldn't that be nice? But then there would be no need for jail because everybody would just turn to religion and confess their sins over and over again. And like we just have criminals running around all the time. Yeah, she was like, that doesn't make any sense. And she was like, if you did kill her, then here on Earth, you need to face your punishment. And then maybe God will forgive you, like you should if you face your punishment. But if you're lying, then your sins are not completely absolved.

Yeah. And she said that Mel would constantly call her over and over again and be like, why aren't you calling me back? Like why aren't you calling me back? Like why aren't you calling me back? Oh, fuck that. He was like really interested in this lady, but that was the last time she ever talked to him. Because she was like, yeah, no.

And he was like, if you say like, what if I hypothetically killed this person that I'm a suspect in the murder case for? You probably killed them. It's like, you're O.J. Before that's a thing. Exactly. So Mel kind of was O.J. Before he was O.J. He a little bit. Before O.J.'re O.J.ing before that's a thing. Exactly. So Mel kind of was O.J. Before he was O.J.

He a little bit. Before O.J. And then like other people in the church supported Mel and they couldn't believe that this was a man capable of murder. So it kind of, it also like divided the church community that he was involved in. Yeah, because the people he was able to pull the, you know, the, what's it called, the veil over their eyes?

Yes. Those were the people. The carpet out from under them. Like, what, what is he pulling? He's pulling something. He's pulling some shit. That's for sure. It was the people who he was able to do that to like being charming, I'm sure, and being very like sympathetic and like, you know, played on all that.

But then it's the people that are like actually looking at it through like clear eyes that are like, uh, right now. Exactly. And they, like, he saw religion as like an escape to murder someone. Yeah, he saw it as like a safety net. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he was going to like, um, church events, like the singles events that the church had. And people were like, the mixes, this is disgusting. Like, get out of here. You killed your fiancee.

Like, no one wants to date you. No way. Like, we're actually pretty afraid of you. You killed your fiance. Like no one wants to date you. No way. No way. We're actually pretty afraid of you. Yeah. But while that was all going on, Mary Ann, she got on the stand. Oh, I'm ready. And she fucking blew it. Ooh, she's a canary. She, yeah. So she started off fine, cool, calm, collected, all those... And she was a cumber, if you will. Oh my god, all the sea adjectives. All of it. But when Scott Cox asked her, this is what he asked her and she fucking loses it.

Can you just describe Brenda Schaefer to the jury? Oh, I see why she lost it. That's a very aggressive question. So she said, well, I only saw her that one time with Mel at a bar. And Scott was like, okay, can you describe her from that last occasion or the last time you saw her? The last time you saw her? Oh.

Picture what she's thinking. Oh. She obviously remembered the last time she fucking saw Brenda, which was not at that random bar with Mal, and she literally hopped off the stand. I was like, I have to talk to my attorney, because I guess, and I know completely understand this, but I think how grand jury investigations work is that your attorney, if you're testifying, has to be in the hallway. Like, it's just the grand jury and the person testifying. I think that makes sense.

So she runs out into hallway and is like, I have to talk to my lawyer. She's like, I need to ask my lawyer if I can explain seeing her being murdered or if that will get me in trouble. So we'll go one sec. So Jack was like, she runs out there and Jack's like, okay, like what's the issue?

And Maryam was like, well they asked me to describe Brenda. And Jack was like, okay. And she, do you know what those words mean? Right, and at that point it was, it was slowly, slowly becoming evident, but at this point, like real evident that Maryam knew a lot more than she was saying to anybody, including him.

Absolutely. And he's like, if I'm going to represent you, I need to know everything. Yeah, you need to be honest. Like, because that's how I'm going to help you. So she went back on the stand and she just said that Brenda had medium length brown hair. That's all she said. And Scott was like, why'd you get so upset when I asked you to describe Brenda? Like, what can you explain to us what happened? And she said, I just don't know how to describe her.

You just did though. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And it was real easy. So after her slip up on the stand, the FBI, Scott Cox, and even Jack her own fucking attorney agreed that, like I said, she knew more than she was saying. Yeah. So they arranged an off the record meeting.

And they kept going back and forth during the meeting with Marianne. She was staying quiet, but they could tell she had something to say. Yeah. She was quiet, but they can, they know body language. They know the way you answer a question. They know when you're fucking holding, with holding and they just have to keep chipping away. So Scott finally tells her, if we find out something and it's not from you, like you didn't

tell us and it involves you or this murder in connection with each other, you're going to get the electric chair. Good. I'm glad they were just like, we're going to kill you. No, that's literally like he was like, you, like if this happens, you're going to die. And like, you'll get the death penalty. Yeah. So just sit with that if you want to. I just know.

And that's when she really started to look freaked out, obviously. And she was like, can I just take a break? And they were like, yeah, sure, sweetie baby. What is it that you said? I think it's sweet honey, baby, sweetie pie. Honey, baby, sweetie pie. Take all the time you need. Yeah.

So they broke off her a little bit and she's talking to her at her knee, Jack. And he's like, Mary Ann, if you know something, you need to tell me. And then maybe if you tell me, I can somehow work out a deal for you. Yeah. So she heard that she would get a deal.

And she was like, okay, I'll talk. She's like, oh, you know what? She had a said it. So he gives, she gives him some information. and he goes back to the FBI and the agents and everybody and they go back and forth and Maryanne finally breaks down and goes, suppose I know where she's buried. Oh, suppose I know where she's buried. Wow. You've had that fucking information for how long? Wow.

They don't even know that she's dead at this point. No, and now it's supposed I know where to. Well, yeah, but we don't have a body. No. Technically, we don't have blood evidence or anything. Nothing. They have no evidence and now she's like, what if I could, and she's, okay, so let's keep going.

And it's like, suppose I know where she's buried. Oh, we wouldn't want that information. Well, no, don't tell us that. That's the best. That's the best. Like, no way. Come on, give us something we can use, Maryanne. So, Chad is like, mother fucker,

I thought this was just bad, Chad. He's like, oh shit. And he's like, can we work her out a deal somehow, even though like, I don't want to. He's like, help me. He didn't say it didn't want to, but. Help me, I'm very over my head. So, Maryanne comes back, she tells him everything.

She said that Mel had been calling her up and saying, so this is everything that happened. Mel had been calling her up saying he wanted to do a sex therapy workshop with Brenda, and he needed Mary Ann's help. Oh, oh no. Trigger warning. Yep.

So she said that his plan was an entire plan of torture, rape, and he planned to kill Brenda. But Marion had been in the kitchen when Brenda died. So, she did, she did, did you find Marion? But she did say that she took photos of the assault, but that Mel had them. So, she told them that she helped Mel dispose of Brenda's body in the woods behind her house. Remember, she had five acres of land. Oh, shit. But she doesn't live there anymore.

She got an apartment. She sold the house because she didn't get along with the fucking land lady because she's a twat lady. Oh, obviously. Not the land lady. Maryam. Maryam. And she said that she could even lead them to Brenda's body if they had cut her a deal.

And they agreed. They agreed to cut her a deal because they thought that she had just like really helped in burying the body. Yeah. So they considered it tampering with evidence and she would only get I think one to five years for tampering with evidence. It's a Class D felony. Fuck. Yup. So that's good. So they, so remember, this is all technically off the record and they needed to know more. So they didn't really have a choice here. Like they were like, we have to give her this deal because we have, Mel is the one that we want to get. And somebody said something like, you got it, like, take the small devil so you can get to the big devil.

Yeah. Which it's so bad. So they asked Maryanne if she would be able to wear a wire and talk to Mel and maybe get him over to her apartment to like confess and they were going to set up a sting basically. And this would be awesome because they're like we we don't really give a shit about Maryanne. So it's like yeah go in there with the wire. They're gonna find out that you wanted to give a shit about Marianne. She told them, like, yep, that should be easy because Mel had been calling her for months. Every single day at four to check in on her, see who she had talked to and see what they had talked about.

Every single day. So they had to rush to cut Marianne this deal like on paper. They had to get her to her apartment, get her whole place wired, get her wired, like carefully. And they had to get her back place wired, get her wired like carefully, and they had to get her back to her apartment in time to get this four o'clock phone call or else Mel was gonna do something crazy. Yeah. And like find out probably. So they made her the deal,

like I said, tampering with evidence. And if she was found guilty, she'd get one to five years, like I said. So they get to the apartment, they get the whole place bugged, they have officers dressed as workers for the apartment building, which I thought was so said. So they get to the apartment, they get the whole place bugged. They have officers dressed as workers for the apartment building, which I thought was so cool. And they're ready to strike when Mel shows up after basically they're like, you got to get him to admit the murder somehow on the phone. Yeah. They coached her. They were like, make sure you say Brenda's name. Like tell Mel that they're selling the land where we buried Brenda, like again, say her name, say where we buried her, and like, ask him if he can come over

because she really needs to talk to him and she's worried that they're gonna get caught soon. Mary Ann is apparently uncouchable and the worst fucking person to wire. That doesn't surprise me. Because she didn't get anything done on that call that they had asked her. She didn't even say Brenda's name one time on the phone call because she knows what she did. She

knows what she did 100%. And the phone call barely lasted even five minutes because Mel honestly outsmarted the whole thing. He just didn't trust it. He was too smart to get over the phone, which I hate to say. And he told Mary Ann, if you want to talk to me, I'll meet you at the ice cream shop, which was their usual meeting spot. And if you want to talk to me, I'll meet you at the ice cream shop, which was their usual meeting spot. And if you want to find out what they talk about at the ice cream shop, you're gonna have to listen to part three.

You motherfucker. I know. Ha ha ha. Holy shit. Isn't this all crazy? This is insane. She's like, I helped to dispose of the body and I took pictures and they're like, okay, well,

I guess we'll just give you tampering with evidence. One to five years. One to five years. And we're gonna talk about in part three, Marianne, on the stand again, TBT, when she just hopped off of the stand. Yeah. We're gonna talk about how Mel got away with murder, essentially. And we're gonna talk about how Karma is a bitch and runs full circle, and maybe you'll be happy in the end.

I hope so. I need a good ending here because so far, these jack holes are really just running around doing whatever they want. It's pissing me off. They really are. It's making me mad. So I can't wait to see for part three. And then it's like Mary Ann just told them to like, he called me. He said he was like planning to torture rape and murder this woman.

So I went to his house. It's like that enough, that like that alone is enough to be like, you're an accomplice to murder. You're a psychopath and we need to put you away forever. And they were like, I think we should just cut the deal. I get why they wanted to get the deal. Yeah, I mean, it's, but it sucks. In a roundabout way, you're like, okay,

I get that we have to do the small to get to the big. You can't make an omelette without cracking a few ways. But honestly, I don't think she was the small. I think to get the two of them, she reminds me of the big. I text her this week, this morning, it's a Carla Hamoka situation. Yeah, it really is.

She acts like, so innocent, and she gets the deal. And she gets the fucking Carla deal. They made a deal with the devil. Just the small devil. Just the fucking Carly deal. They made a deal with the devil. Just the small devil. Just the kind of small devil. So yeah, we also need to shout out some Patreons. Petronuses. We normally do this here, right?

We do. Okay, good. Okay, follow the record. Yeah, you know. So tonight, we're gonna thank Kellyanne Spite. Kellyanne Spite. I think that's how you say it last time. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And then next, we're going to thank Adrian Johnson. Adrian Johnson, thank you so much. You're great. Then we are going to thank. Kristen Davis. Kristen Davis, thank you. Kristen Davis, I-L-Y.

And then I think it's Kaylee, could be Kaylee, Yerger. Thank you, Kaylee, Kaylee, Yerger. We appreciate you.L.Y. And then I think it's Kaylee, could be Callie Yerger. Thank you, Callie, Kaylee Yerger. We appreciate you. Thanks so much. We appreciate you so much. You know who else we appreciate? Caitlin Boulais. Caitlin Boulais.

That's a cool lesson. Thank you so much. Thank you. Gemma Doble. Gemma Doble. You're so noble. You are noble. Thank you so much.

I love you with my whole entire heart. Next we are going to think Carol Reep. Carol Reep you the best. You reap what you care so. You do. Justice, labor, Burke's. I want to thank you and apologize if I said your last name wrong. Thank you so much.

You're great. I love you. You're awesome. Then we have Allie Knight. Allie Knight. Like, and it's not like nighttime. It's like. You're awesome. Then we have alley knight. alley knight. Like and it's not like night time. It's like I'm a fight. Like I'm like I'm a princess knight. Yes. Like what's the name? Yeah, exactly. We love no other princess night. We love you. And then we love a Madonna. Oh, Hannah. Hannah. So hot right now. Hannah so hot right now. Thank you so

much. Then we want to thank Don Troj or Trojie? Don Troj or Trojie, you're the best. Thanks so much. I'd then like to thank Cameron with a K. Cameron with a K. We love you. Cameron with a K. You're so hot right now. And then just another Madonna. Michelle. Michelle. With one L. My bell. Michelle, my bell, with one L. So hot right now. Oops, I went into a different screen. I'm trying to print you off, Michelle. I'm trying to print you off. I love you that much. Last but not least, I would like to thank Tessa Amaro.

Tessa Amaro, thank you so much. Thank you so much to all of our patronisys. We could not do this show without you. You were here from the beginning, you're here now and we love you for it It's got to vote on our bottom lower head. We appreciate you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. And as always guys, you can follow us on Instagram at morbidpodcasts Hit us up on Twitter. A morbidpodcasts. And that's a gmail. morbidpodcasts.gemail.com Keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not somewhere that you're like

Uh oh, but not somewhere that you're writing bad checks to came our for only like $20 and then you meet this guy name Mel and you're like oh my god I love Mel so much but Mel is only using you and you should really know that you should have a lot more self-respect than Mary And sure don't keep it so weird that you don't have any self-respect and you're writing bad checks and then you help in a murder And you're like I didn't just help in the murder I buried the body and I took pictures, but I'm just gonna get off I'm one to five years because I'm the devil The devil Don't keep the devil. The devil. Don't keep that weird pipe.

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