Morbid - Episode 165: The Gruesome Murder of Brenda Sue Schaefer Part 3

Episode Date: August 20, 2020

The conclusion to our three part series on Brenda Schaefer’s murder is here. What goes down during the ice cream sting? Is Mary Ann Shore able to get Mel Ignatow to confess what really happened? There’s a lot to unpack here and that’s where we’ll start. This is going to be a wild, karma-filled ride with a twist and a half for an ending.  Check out the book Double Jeopardy by Bob Hill: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0380721929/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5GEpFbNM18BFJ As always thank you to our sponsors! DailyHarvest: Keep it simple this summer with Daily Harvest! Go to DAILYHARVEST.com and enter promo code MORBID to get twenty- five dollars off your first box!  Bestfiends:  With over 100 million downloads and tons of five-star reviews, Best Fiends is a must-play! Download Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That’s FRIENDS without the R – Best Fiends! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wundery pod or text wundery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. You can host the best backyard barbecue. When you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around. Connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Inside to outside, repairs to renovations. Get started on the Angie app or visit Angie.com today. You can do this when you Angie that. Hey weirdos, I'm Alena. I'm Bob. This is

morbid. Mini, mini, mini, mini, mini, morbid, mini, morbid, many more bad. Just kidding, it's ash. And it's a many more bad, but again, but it's not. Those are the thing of the past, we're just using the intro music because some of you like it. So if you don't like it, I have a personal quam with that because I don't know if you know this. I composed that song. She did.

She sure did. She sure did. One day. She composed that song. She did. She's sure that one day. She composed it, she recorded it. I am so overtired right now. Yeah, it's been quite a couple of weeks. We've been very, very busy. I'm like slap happy as fuck right now. Yeah, it's just been a lot going on.

And then my dog Bailey has been going through a lot of stuff. She's having a couple of like procedures done. Because she has- This just haven't old lady issues. Yeah, she's going blind. And she's gone blind, really. So we're having surgery on one of her eyes soon. So it's just been like back and forth.

It's a vets a million times. We had to take her to the dentist yesterday. We had to take her to the dentist. Far away. It's been a time. We had to travel in the HOV lane together. We did. It was a journey. It was a lot. It was, but we got a piece of hope, to travel in the HOV lane together. We did. It was a journey.

It was a lot. It was, but we got a piece of hope, pizza. A piece of hope, pizza. But yeah, so it's just been a lot, you know, personally and a lot, professionally, isn't going on. And it's all good stuff. It's just very busy.

Yeah. So that's why we are going to be doing a Lori Ballot update. We just, we just got to squeeze it in somewhere and it's just, it'll get in there. Where does it fit? It's like that baby toy where the baby has the square and they're just trying to jam it in the triangle place. Yeah, it's not where it fits.

No, then you're like, where does it fit? And then you find out there is no triangle spot. That's what it is. That was a beautiful metaphor. So deep. You're welcome. Like an ocean. No, I think it'll come out next week. Yeah, there's a trying space. So deep. You're welcome. Like an ocean. No, I think it's good. It'll come out next week. Yeah, there's a trying to promise you it's coming out next week. We're

not going to commit to a day because when we do that, we get in trouble. Yeah. In the Lord knows there's just too much going on for us to commit to a day because you're getting your that's an extra episode. I was gonna say you're still getting so you're still getting your two episodes. Don't worry. We're not being like, oh, we're just going to fluff away a second episode was gonna say you're still getting so you're still getting your two episodes. Don't worry. We're not being like, oh, we're just gonna fluff away a second episode. No, you're still getting the scheduled episodes. That one is just kind of fabulous at this point. Pop in and say, howdy neighbor. It's gonna be like, hello, I'm here to ruin your day with terrible details about child steps. Good day. So, hope you're ready for that. And we are finally at part three of the Ash centric episode

that everyone has been waiting for, including me. Also, thank you so much to the people that said I got better at my research. That made me feel warm and motel me. It did. It made her feel really good. It did. And it's true.

Yeah, you're killing it. Thank you so much. And we're all just hanging at the edge of our seats. So let's just do this, OK? Let's do it. First of all, I'd like to say that I cried doing this last part. Yeah, this part's going to be the bad part. It's the bad part, and also, so I just want to shout it out one more time. The book, Double Jeopardy by Bob Hill, I actually posted it

on the more of an Instagram today, and I'll put it in the show notes. If you haven't read that, like when you're finished listening to this, you gotta go read it because there's like what I say and then there's way more that like I just gonna get into everything. But he goes like so deep into like what actually happened and it's it made me actually cry. It's a good thing you didn't go too deep. Oh no, I'd cry. I'm a podcast and like we all know I've done that way too many times. So when we left off last time, Mary Ann was heading to the ice cream shop to meet Mel. And she was gonna try to get him to talk about what happened to Brenda.

And she was wired, right? She was wired. And the FBI was like waiting to hop on Mel and be like, you're arrested. You're a bad guy. You're a real bad guy. You're a bad dude. I, you know what, if I was the FBI guy,

I would knock his fucking mint chocolate chip out of his hand so quick. Me too. And you know what, ice cream is a running theme in this and we'll get to that later. And I love ice cream. Me too. So did Mel.

Oh no. So they reminded that the FBI reminded you know. You know. The Phoebe. They reminded Mary Ann to try to say Brenda's name while she was in the car with Mel, and also mentioned the place where Brenda was buried. She was like, they were like, tell Mel that you're worried because the land where we buried Brenda, she would like, they wanted her to tell him that it was purchased and that they were going to be

building something over it, and Brenda's body was going to be discovered. Oh, okay. Now she's supposed to act like, oh shit Mel, they're going to find the body. and that they were gonna be building something over it, and Brenda's body was gonna be discovered. Oh, okay. Now, she's supposed to act like, oh shit, Mel, they're gonna find the body. Now, that's not true, like they were planning on building anything, but that's just a good way to trap him. A good way to trap him, and Mary Ann's boyfriend,

his name was Butch in Low. Of course it was. Duh, yeah. I mean, we'd expect nothing less. Nothing less. Dussing less. And Butchie Boy was connected with the town because he was a volunteer fireman at one point.

And he was just connected. He knew everything that was happening. So if Mel had asked her, how the fuck do you know that they're planning on building something there? She'd be like, well, butch, totally. She'd be like, well, butchie boy, I said so. It was butch. That's what happened.

Now, all she had to do was say, Brenda's name and mention the land that they had both buried her. And it would have been a slam dunk, the funk. Great five reference. You're welcome. We need to, we need to get a slam dunk, the funk reference and like every other episode. We need to make that like a, like a soundboard effect. It really needs to be.

Apparently, you know, those kids in class who just like don't follow directions, no matter how many times the teacher is like, cut along the dotted lines. Sure do. And they like cut like a snowflake and you're like, well, cool, but no. But that's not what I asked you to do. Marians that kid except like, doesn't do the snowflake.

She just like, fucks the whole thing up. She just murders someone. Correct. And she murders somebody and she fucks everything up. So she gets in the car with Mel and this conversation lasted 13 minutes. She, again, remember in the first time at the apartment, she never said Brenda's name on the phone call.

In this 13-minute conversation where all they instructed her to do was say the name and the gravesite, she didn't say Brenda's name once, not one fucking time. Come on. And so, okay. So the conversation lasts 13 minutes. She never says Brenda's name and she never mentions an actual grave site. She said the F, she tells the F, I'm like so high. She's so much.

She tells Mel. The emotion is here. I know, I'm okay. She tells Mel that the FBI knew what was going on. They were closing in on her and they asked her to take a lie detector test. And that's when Mel was like, what the fuck, like no, you can't take any tests.

They can't make you like no way. Little did he know she had already taken it and like failed with flying colors. Yeah, absolutely. Flailful. Flailful. Flailful. Flailful.

Flailful. Flailful. Flailful. Flailful. Flailable foc. Flail for a staster. So he's like, trying to tell her that she's a fucking idiot. She needs to follow his lead and just outsmart them by being smug as hell. Like he does. Just be like, male. Just, just, male it up. And he was like, you know what, Marianne? This is all a game.

And like, you just have to learn how to play the game. He didn't really say that, but that's like basically what he was saying. I want to punch him. Oh, I want to dick punch him. So I have to her male's monologue about how good he was at playing the FBI game, and how he started, like, how Mary Ann had to start doing it like he did, Mary Ann moved on to the point of the property being sold.

Instead of saying the grave like she was supposed to, she said, well, you know, like, the property has been sold, right? That could be any fucking property. Literally any thing. Like, that could be any fucking property thing. Literally anything. Like that could be the hillyards down the street or the big Y over there or like Farmer Joe's Hut stand. That's the most innocuous thing you could ever say. It means nothing.

Literally nothing. But again, Mel treated her like an idiot and he was like, you know, they're not gonna be doing anything right away because bad weather's coming. And even if they did, they probably were just gonna put like a parking lot over it and they wouldn't have to clear the land too much. So honestly, it would just be unfortunately burying Brenda Moore.

Yeah, it would be easier for them. Exactly. I mean, again, they weren't planning on doing anything. So just saying, he then said something along the lines of, and I quote, that place we dug is not, is not shallow. So don't let it get you rattled. Besides, that one area by where the safest does not have any trees by it. The trees are down if you remember, so it's not a big deal. If worse comes to worse, and something needs to be done, I'll handle it. Okay, so go find those downed trees.

Yep, go find them downed trees. And he definitely said, well, so they thought that he said, Doug, but the issue was the recording wasn't super clear and there would be a big debate on whether he said the place we dug or the place we got because it wasn't clear enough. And then the other debate over whether he said the area by the safe or the area by the site. Oh, because it just wasn't clear enough. So now people like were like, we a safe like what safe? So it wasn't a safe.

So the investigators had been super excited prior to this. And all Maryann had to do, like I said, was just a Brenda's name and have milk and firm that they buried her. And obviously that didn't happen. And now there was going to be this long ongoing debate about what was actually said in the recording. So either way there was not enough to arrest Mel right then in there. And they were really bummed because that's what they had originally hoped for. Yeah. So in the meantime they were searching the area where Mary Ann said that she and Mel went out a week or so before killing Brenda to dig Brenda's grave. Oh my god. And then that's where on September 24th, after they tortured and killed her, that's where they

placed their body and the clothing. So they also had people talking to Mary Ann to get more and I more of an idea of what happened at Brenda and she gave them full fucking details. Oh boy. Now we've briefly kind of mentioned what happened to Brenda but I haven't gone into anything in complete detail. So this is a trigger warning, it doesn't fall great if that's not something you want to hear about. Fast forward a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. a little bit. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill?

Or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valow, aka Mommyk.a. Mummy Doom stays motives, and what drove

Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So in the night that Brenda was murdered, Mel had told her that he wanted to take her to a friend to get some of her jewelry appraised. Now, I don't know if that's the truth because you would think that if she was going to break up with him, she wouldn't go with him to do that. Yeah.

Or so who knows what the actual story is. Because we're also going, we're relying on what Maryann is saying. Yeah, right. But one way or another, he got her to Maryann's house. OK. Because that friend was not a jewelry expert at all, but it was Maryann who was waiting as they had already planned the plan had been sent into motion in the weeks

and even months prior. Her back door was already locked and as soon as Brenda and Mel came inside, the door behind Brenda was locked too. So she was completely trapped in there. Now Mel had a checklist and a camera ready to go. He controlled the list and Maryanne controlled the camera. He explained to Brenna that this was a sex therapy class for her to get better at things like this. And obviously Brenna was mortified and stood up to go home. And he was like, nope, like you're not going anywhere. We're gonna go through the checklist because he literally had a checklist of things that he was gonna do to her. And he was like, when I get to the end of it, you can go home.

because he was gonna do to her. And he was like, when I get to the end of it, you can go home. That is, I can't even, no part of my brain can put myself in that position. Well, it just doesn't even sound real. It does, I'm trying to think of how horrible that would, like, how terrifying that would be and my brain won't even let me conjure.

And it's like, you go to meet him and this list is in his pocket the whole time. And there's like a camera there and he's like, okay. And then the scary Mary Ann lady, and you're like, because if you see Mary Ann, if she was standing in front of me with a camera, and this guy's talking about a list of things they're gonna do, I'd be like, oh, no, no, no.

This is brutal in her effect. So Mel must have got a hold of her and told her, she'd be able to go home later, but he was gonna get his list of things done. Ugh. So first, he had her like stand up and he took photos of her while she had her clothes on, straight on, then left, then right, almost like a mug shot.

What the fuck? Then he had her take her clothes off, and he also had her remove her jewelry at this point, and he took the same photos of her in just her undergarments. He had her pose for one photo with her hands behind her head. And then this is where it gets like absolutely horrific. When he finished taking those pictures, he had her kneel in front of Mary Ann's glass coffee table.

The one that she still had in her apartment when investigators had questioned her and these investigators had even eaten off this table while setting up the sting operation without knowing that this was the fucking table. Oh. So we had her kneel in front of that table and then he tied her arms to the legs of the table on either side. Oh no.

And it gets really bad here. He then sawed him eyes to her, both himself and then with a vibrating massager, which he had, that had already been at Marianne's house because he already set it up and like he had like a bag of shit ready. Of course. And he used KY Jelly on that. I know that's a weird detail to include, but it comes back up later. Okay.

Marianne was taking pictures that Mel wanted the entire time. He was like instructing her what to take pictures of. He wanted close-ups of the abuse itself, close-ups of Brenda's face. And he told Brenda that he was going to show these to like her attorneys and like people, like high-profile people that she knew. What the fuck? Meanwhile, he knew that that... So he was just insiduating fear because that's not at all. He knew the whole time he was going to. Yeah, he was like, you're not leaving here.

He let Brenda use the bathroom after 45 minutes of being tied to that coffee table before he moved on to the next phase of the torture. He let her go to the bathroom, but Marianne had to go with her. And she imagined being Marianne. Can you imagine being that evil of a human being that you were like, I'm gonna participate in this like one absolute degradation of this innocent woman?

I have to wonder if she had more involvement than she said she did because she obviously is gonna try to paint herself like the least possible. As I'm scared and I just want to like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, you do it. This honestly, that goes along with what our other case is gonna be this week. The Myara Henley and Ian Brady case

because Myara tries to pretend she's like the innocent flower. Yeah. And these kind of people, woman or man, it's the, who does that? And it's like I was scared of my partner and that's why I did it. Fuck off.

Right. If you were participating in that kind of shit. Yeah. You're fucked up. No. There's something wrong with me. Well, and there's people, like I think of like the toy box killer. Yeah.

Like that girl was fucking terrified for her life, but somehow she managed to escape. Exactly. And it's like she was like completely naked and bound. And it's like you were just standing in your kitchen, like waiting for this to be over. You could have walked out the back door and gotten help at any fucking point.

Like we're talking about Mary-in, yeah. That's what I need, Mary-in. It's like, are you kidding? Like, Mary-in at any point could have, it's her house. This is her house. It's her house. You could run out that back door

or and go get help and be like something some shit is going on in my house. I didn't know this was gonna happen. Somebody get the police. And instead you sat there. Or before anything happened, she could have told anybody that this was going to happen anytime and a sting operation could have been set up way before Bring that had even died or when she's bringing Brenda into the bathroom

They could have sat there and been like what are we gonna do you get them from the left? I get them from the right we're gonna take the sucker down together. She could have done that But she did she didn't because she wants to act she was part of it She wants to act like she was so afraid of Mel and I'm sure to a degree she was afraid of him a little bit. Cool. He's a scary guy. Also, she was in love with him. Like she wanted to be with him and Brenda was in the way. Yeah. This what she was happy to do this to Brenda. Absolutely. So she sat there wiping her tears like an angel. And then after that, they went to the bedroom where Mel tied Brenda into multiple positions,

raping her, satimizing her. He forced her to perform Felicia. Marianne was apparently involved at one point physically under Mel's instruction, quote unquote. And she also used the paddle that Mel had previously brought over to strike Brenda in the backside with. Oh my god. Like over and over again.

But it was brief of course, and then she just went back to taking pictures according to her. That's always the situation. It was always, I only did it for a minute, and then I didn't like it. And I really didn't like it at all. It's like, okay, we totally believe that. No. So then she said that she needed to go to the kitchen at one point to calm down and have a glass of water. And also it's like, I'm sorry,

you need to calm down and have a glass of water? Oh, you need to hydrate. How about Brenda? Okay, okay, okay. You need to calm down, okay. Totally, take your time. And so she said that when she was having her nice refreshing glass of water,

that she heard things quiet down and Mel finally came into the kitchen and told her that he used chloroform that he came prepared with days earlier to smother Brenda with. He said, Brenda didn't suffer, she died peacefully. Oh, she didn't suffer? She didn't suffer.

Cool, like, okay. Yeah, I heard no suffering in that. No, nothing at all. Not at at all then he went back to the bedroom And he tied her he retired her in a different position. That was like almost like the fetal position her Excuse me her knees were pressed against her face and her feet were touching her bottom and her hands were tied by her ankles So she was essentially like a hog tied. Almost, yeah, pretty much.

And she was like completely like contorted. He wrapped her in multiple trash bags and wraps hepe around them. And Mary Ann said he ripped the tape off with his teeth. Which I feel like if you picture that for a second, it just adds for some reason to like the horror of everything. It's like anything. It is. And you can picture him in a rage just just just adds first time reason to like the horror of everything. It's like anything. It is.

And you can picture him in a rage just like, we're big at all with this teeth. And he left DNA on that. So, you didn't leave DNA probably everywhere, but. Well, I don't know. So, then they put her clothing, because remember she had just like stripped right away. They put her clothing in a separate set of trash bags,

and they carried both bags out to the grave that again, they had pre-dub. And when they came back, Mel went out to Brenda's car. He sliced a small cut in that rear tire. He put a nail in there, and he told Maryanne to follow him out to the highway. Follow me out to the interstate.

My God. I'm gonna, I think he drove it until I get wouldn't drive anymore because the tire was getting bad. Yeah. Left it, got in Marion's car. Marion dropped him off at his mom's house. Which was like, all of his house.

And he was like, mine at home. Wow. And then he also told Marion, don't call me until I call you. Wow. So it's like, was it worth it, girl? Yeah, he doesn't sound like he's super, he's just not that into you.

He don't love you. Oh, no. And also this, I just think this fucking hilarious. Maryann thought that she was gonna get Brenda's jewelry, but Mel took it with him. What if... I thought I was gonna get her jewelry, but I was so scared of him and I didn't want to participate at all. At all. Fuck right off. But that time and ringing that cool bracelet. Yeah. But I was gonna get that, so that was literally go fuck yourself. Yeah, that's, I, oh. And so not only did Mel take the jewelry with him, but he also took the film from the camera. Of course he did.

There was three rolls of film, 112 photos in total. He wanted that for himself. In 12, oh, we're gonna talk about that later when we talk about Robert Rhodes. Oh boy. And you've been Rhodes. Robert Ben Rhodes. Yes, okay, I thought I was like, oh, we're gonna talk about that later when we talk about Robert Rhodes. Oh boy. And you've been Rhodes. Robert Ben Rhodes. Yes, okay, I thought I was like, yeah.

You were right. So Brenda's body was discovered at 156 PM on January 11th with the help of a cadaver dog named Bingo. Bingo. I feel like he's just so shy. I wonder when he finds, it's really morbid, but morbid. But I wonder when he finds people who will be like, Bingo. oh my god, I'm not sure. And then I wrote him a notes and another dog named Mary and Shore because she was there too. And I

just felt like that needed to be said, woof woof woof, you nasty nasty twat lady. George Nichols was the medical examiner who did the autopsy on Brenda's body. And actually, at the time he was going to start the autopsy, he got a call from his friend, Dr. Larry Lumen, who was the chief medical examiner in Oregon. Oregon. Yeah, in Oregon.

And Larry and George both examined Brenda's body. Isn't that kind of crazy? I love when pathologists will tag team. That happens a lot. It is cool. Because then you just get more eyes on things. It's great. So because Brenda's body had been buried

for almost a year and a half at this point, a year and a half, it was obviously very badly decomposed. Her facial features were gone, unrecognizable. Her hair was gone, and I meant to look up how to say this, but you'll know, at a poccare, at a p... at a p-serie, at a piece of ray. At a what now? The wax stuff, like, like, howling worth that case. Because it's like at a post tissue that's turned into at a post

there. At a post there. Yeah, you're right. I looked it up at like five o'clock this morning. You're right, you're right. So and that's what happened to howling worth case, remember? Oh, yeah, yeah, like the, the lady remember? Oh, yeah. The lady in the lake. Yes, the lady in the lake. Yep. I was trying to look it up this morning, and it was like,

I was looking up the lady in the water. And it was that movie, and I was like, it looks real scary. She looks very cinematic. She's like beautiful, but terrifying. She's makeup on, I'm confused. So Adipo's era had turned her soft tissue into a fatty wax-like texture.

Yeah, soap. So, and that's not fun to do an autopsy on, because nope, it's not a lot you can get from that. Meaning there was no DNA left. And if there had been, it was gonzo. It's a pontification. It's a pontification. Which now I kind of wonder, actually,

because I feel like the tape DNA, if he did rip it with his teeth, but that have gone away a year and a half later. I mean, maybe, to me, that was like, ooh, he used his teeth. Maybe she was embellishing because there was nothing found to link no physical evidence. I mean, it's possible that it was gone by then too. Yeah, because it was also a very moist area. Exactly. So it's like, maybe you could get something,

but maybe not. Yeah, you just never know. Anyways, there were a ton of ropes around Brenda's body to untie around her head, knees, wrist, and stomach. Everything was tied. And all of the ropes that were tied were tied to each other. So like a rope around her neck was also connected to one on her wrist. And one on her abdomen was also on her knee.

You know what I mean? Yeah, so she wouldn't be able to stretch or move to do anything. And George Nichol said that he had never seen a body tied with that many knots and that the murderer, if he was this careful with his knots, this package obviously meant a lot to him. Ugh. Which is like, obviously, it doesn't mean that he loves Brenda so much. No, it just means he was taking care to make sure he did this right.

Exactly. Gross. Brenda's autopsy, obviously, like I said, was so hard to do. They had to cut her hands off to see if they could send them out to a different lab so that way they could get fingerprints. They had to soak her hands and then inject them with these chemicals and hope to get a print. That's a new thing that they've like perfected now too.

They were able to get a print so that helped confirm that it was her but also dental records had to be pulled too because she was so badly decomposed. A year and a half in like a moist area Yeah, and wrapped in a plastic bag too. Yeah, and multiple plastic bags like horrible So the cause of death ultimately was ruled a homicide, but like I said so hard to determine he couldn't really say What what killed her really? Yeah, it was of homicide in the future. Homicide on nature. They look at how she was packaged and they're like,

yeah, I don't think this was natural. And they did think that if it's fixation, it's something to do with it. So that makes sense. During the autopsy. But then you wonder, like, are they, you know, she could be bullshitting and it's like, did they put her in that bag when she was still alive?

It's actually so crazy that you say that because one of the jurors thought the same exact thing because he said he used like chloroform She get like that could it that doesn't necessarily kill you. What if she woke up? She could have can you fucking imagine? No, oh the whole thing is a fucking nightmare. It's so crazy that you said that though I just wondered that one of the jurors thought that And he did say that he, or Mary Ann said that he waited for the pulse to go away, but can I call away when you're unconscious or am I done? Well, he's not a medical doctor. So it could have slowed.

No, he's literally just an asshole. He could have slowed and he just didn't feel it. He could have been feeling the wrong spot. He could have been using his thumb. He could have been using his thumb. He could have been using his thumb. He could have been using his thumb. A lot of people think they know where the pulse is. Maybe in a where the pulse. A lot of people think they know where the pulse is.

You know, I didn't have done to work done. So, that's a lot less big for us. Call them out. The oney-to-oney. Call them out to any joy. No, so a lot of people think they know where the pulse is and where to find it, but they're like right next to it. And they'll be like, oh shit, there's no pulse.

And then you think you're dead and you're not. And you're alive. Well, that's a horrible thought. Also, this is Buh Nana's. And this is just unsolved. During the autopsy, it was also noted that Brenda had recently had a full hysterectomy. Wow.

Strangely enough, her own gynecologist had not operated. Huh. None of her friends and family knew anything about it, and she hadn't taken any time off work. What? And that, a hysterectomy is like an insanely painful thing to recover. You're having organs taken out of your body. Your seropin tubes, your uterus, everything.

Like, you're taking literally several organs out of your body. That is a major surgery. Nobody knew anything about it. And you have to have time to recover from that. Isn't that the weirdest thing you've ever heard? That's bizarre. The most bizarre. And he was like, no, like she doesn't have it.

And, oh, and he could see that the incision was like pretty fresh. So it was pretty recent. What? And her gynecologist looked like way back in her file and he also used, like, no, I know that we didn't do that. I know I did not prepare that. Here's her file. What?

No. Wow, that's bizarre. And obviously, Mel's not a medical doctor. He did not perform a fucking hysterectomy, but it's just like, what? So who did? And like, where did you, when did you recover from that? Yeah, that's strange. Just bizarre, very strange.

Well, Mel was arrested just a day before Brenda's body was discovered. And in the days following, he was indicted on charges of murder, kidnapping, sawdemy, sexual abuse, robbery, and tamping, and tamping, and tamping it down, and tampering with physical evidence. Good. The state was seeking the death penalty. Bob-Mill. Now unfortunately, Mary and the hoe face was only indicted on a charge of tampering with evidence because that is bullshit.

A whole bunch of bullshit, but she got like a Carla Hamoka deal. Of course she did the deal with the devil. Yep, the deal. That's what it's, I figured out who said it. I said it last time and I was like, I don't really know who said it. It was Ernie Jasmine. He was the prosecutor and he was like, sometimes you just, it was in his closing arguments. He was like, sometimes you just got to make a deal with a small devil to get the big devil. Oh, and it's true. But she's not even a small devil. She's not, but I guess in this case she was. She's like a moderate size devil. I think they're both Satan. So the trial kept getting delayed because of things, this isn't bananas. The tape of the ice cream shop

discussion got leaked to the media. That doesn't happen by it. Like that's not an accident. So they, what happened was, I guess in trials like this, the prosecution and the defense have to put like what they're going to use in their arguments. It like they have to like show the other person. Yeah, that's like, it's called something. There's like discovery. It's just, that's what it is. It's discovery.

It's called something. It's called something. Yeah, they have to show them exactly what's gonna be in there. You can't bring things in. You can't like fly inside them. You can't fly inside them. Yeah.

And everything has to be approved through the judge obviously. Exactly. But that's what happened. It got leaked through the discovery. Oh. But it's like the other lawyer didn't, like the defense attorney obviously he didn't leak it because why the fuck would he do that? That would not be good for him.

And he was pissed. Wow. So the trial got delayed because of that. but also people around Louisville or Louisville, or no matter how I say, they were gonna get mad at me. So we were told about six different ways to say Louisville. And like, So here you go, ready?

So people around Louisville, Louisville, Louisville, Louisville, in that place. Louisville. Just I, whoville? I hope that I've made you all happy. You covered all the bases, so if I haven't, then I will never do another case from Louisville ever again. Well, anyways, we've covered all the bases, so I think we're good.

You all heard high fives Louisville, we did it together. Like a big mosh bit of Louisville. We can slap everybody, every different pronunciation, high fives. So you people, you people heard people the entire 13 minutes while you were driving around or watching the news and people were sure that Mel was guilty because um duh because he was because guilty guilty as judge. Well, I mean, he technically never implicated himself, but people are not stupid. Yeah. His lawyer, Charlie Ricketts, argued that Mel would never

be able to get a fair trial in Louisville, Louisville, Louisville, theville. And they needed to change a venue. He was like, there's no fucking way that this is gonna be a fair trial. And they were like, Charlie Ricketts. And they were like, Charlie, remember. And they were like, Charlie, remember when you were a poida?

Remember when you used to do this shit too. But Charlie's right. Charlie's a pain in my ass. He's a pain in the ass, but he's right. He's not wrong. The venue change was granted, and the trial was moved to Kenton County, and I probably said that wrong too,

but I tried my best. It's not a good, Kenton. Kenton, I pronounce the tease and everything. I like it. It was about an good Kenton, Kenton. I pronounce the tease in everything. I like it. It was about an hour and a half, northeast of Louisville, Louisville, theville. And it was a primarily white community. Now I only mentioned the racial demographic

because Ernie Jasmine, my boy, who I talked about earlier, he was the state's prosecution, thought back on the trial later. And he was like, I think my skin color, along with a few other things, obviously, might have had something to do with the final verdict on this trial. Oh, yes, thank you. Oh.

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You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. when their star witness, Mary and Shore, are you ready? I'm ready. She developed Bell's Palsy, which is like, what, which actually Bell's Palsy can be brought on by stress? I was gonna say, I wonder why. Yeah, exactly. You have a whole lifetime of guilt holed up inside of you. And I think you have Bell's Palsy forever, technically, don't you? I mean, I don't think it goes away like here.

But I think you're... But I can come back again, right? I'm sure it can, yeah. Like you don't back, back, back again. I think it does go away though. Yeah, no. You will get like feeling and you know, you'll be able to move.

Yeah, it only lasts like a few weeks, but I think once you have it, you're like more susceptible to get it again. That makes sense. Doesn't really matter in this case at all. So she develops Bell's palsy, and if you don't know, that's a condition and it swells the muscles and nerves

on one side of your face, and it basically causes your face to just droop. It mimics a stroke symptom. It does, and it causes your speech to be somewhat impaired. Yeah. Because it's like the muscles on one side of your face. Not completely. No, you can still talk.

You can talk over a Friday or a whole flip-flip. Yeah. And people can understand you still. Yeah. Well, Mary Ann seemed to be milking these symptoms, acting as though she was barely able to speak. She was having a hard time walking, and she was covering her eye with an eye patch. Huh. Not Bell's palsy-esque. Yeah, that seems, that seems a little much. It seems a little much. And if you think I'm wrong, I'm not. Because a doctor later testified

that he had seen hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of patients who had had Bell's Palsy, and their speech was never impaired enough to be anything other than perfectly understandable. And also that Bell's Palsy would have no effect on your walk at all. I was gonna say, I'd that. I was like, what now? Like, I guess if you like, can't really see, but

yeah, I could make you like- But she was walking like, she was in pain. Like, he was like, he was like, no, like, it doesn't affect your legs or like anything in your legs at all. So- So didn't give you a- He was like, he was like, he was like, seems like she is something to gain from this. Seems a little shady.

Shade a bitch. If you listen to race, what? She is a shady bitch. If you listen to race, chaser, they have this button and they just go, shade a bitch. And it's like, what that is. It's Alaska and Williams podcast. Oh, that was like help.

Anyways, back to a true grand podcast. The trial did not begin until December 9, 1991. In the meantime, this is super sad. Both of Brenda's parents had passed away and so had Mel's mother. Wow. Because everybody was just so stressed out. Mel had left his share of the house to his mom

so that he could avoid legal issues later down the road, which is just like hilarious. Oh man. It actually led to a lot of legal issues. And it's also like your whole life's going to be one big legal issue. Yeah, like, LOL at the foreshadowing there, my dad. My guy.

My die. My die. You should die, Mel. It's very true. Just wait. Marianne had gotten married to her boyfriend, but she boy in low. And somehow, again, are you fucking ready for this jelly?

No. She went on a fucking Caribbean cruise after she got married. And I don't even care if I just burst into your car speakers. She went on a Caribbean cruise. I have no words. And she got married.

Like, okay, people get married in jail, whatever. You know what you don't do in jail? Go on a Caribbean cruise. You really don't. And butch, come on butch. Well butch was like, Marion, remember, like I said, Marion was like this manipulative, scary aspect. It's like Catherine Knight.

Yeah, they get these. She actually kind of looks like Catherine Knight. She does, that's why I thought of it. Whoa, maybe she is Catherine Knight. Holy fuck. We just cracked this wide open. Distant cousins, that it happened. Well, but people remember that, like Maryann

had control over a butch and actually, she was stayed with this lady that was like kind of a friend of hers during the trial. And then later on the lady was like, we weren't friends. And like once I found out the truthy, I was like, no thank you, we. She was like, bye bye.

But she was like, Maryann loved to see what she could get butch to do for her. Like, he was like a dog. Wow. So I mean, it's always those kind of people that can like wrap people around there and you're like, how? Yeah, I know.

A couple of them. So she goes on a Caribbean cruise, which is like, again, let that sink in. So much stuff happened before this trial. And then the trial's starting, and the jury was made up of a lot of trouble some characters. Oh no!

There was one woman who already made up her mind that Mel was guilty before she'd even heard the entirety of the trial. Oh that's fine. Same, but you can't be due with that on a jury. Sorry, I can't agree. There was a guy who owed the IRS five grand and had been involved in a lawsuit with the

state. How did he slip in there? I don't know, but if you're involved in any kind of like legal trouble with the state, you're not allowed on a jury in case you didn't know. You don't say. And most of all, this is the biggest thing. The jurors who like weren't super great were focused on the fact that Christmas was coming up and they wanted to be home for Christmas.

So they needed to get this verdict speedy quick. We got Snap Snap. Let's get this guy in the chair and move on. Come on. It doesn't seem like that's what they wanted to do. And I think that's why they rushed their decision. And I think the trial was not ready to go to trial yet. Like there were still things that needed to happen, but people were excited to get

Mel behind bars. Yeah, the Christmas season was coming. Everything was happening. And actually, Ernie Jasmine had worked on, had worked with like another lawyer. And this lawyer was like off on paternity leave because his wife had just had a baby. Oh geez. And because the trial had been delayed so many times, the judge was like, nope, like let's go. Oh, so it was just like everything coming together to make this the worst time.

Yes. And the situation for a trial to happen fairly precise. For anybody, for anybody, either side, exactly. And Charlie Ricketts did a good job of making the state, and even the FBI look like they had done a shitty fucking investigation. Charlie. Charlie.

The reality was that they hadn't done a bad investigation at all. There just wasn't a lot to go off of. They honestly had done like a really great job with the information that they did have. Like in part two, I talked about Mel's ex-wife. She was able to give, like, I think it was like a 12-page testimonial about what it was like being married to Mel.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And then the FBI put together an extensive profile on what kind of guy Mel was based on that and some other interviews, kind of gay. With the help of Rob Hazelwood. Hazelwood worked for the Behavioral Science Unit of the FBI Academy at Quantico, and he was an expert on criminal sexual sadism.

Wow. And look at you, Agent Holden. He had actually studied Robert Ben Rhodes's case. There it is. And he helped come up, come up, up with a list of erotic sexual sexual. But it's actually sexual. He helped come up with a list of sexual sadist tendencies.

And he came to the conclusion, now this is cool. It's not cool, but it's interesting. Interesting. That 53.3% of all sexual sadists will record their offense and they use either the picture or the film or what have you to look back on the offense and Relive it. 53.3% That makes sense because it's things like BTK didn't record the event, but he would take pictures afterwards. Yup. With the things that he took and like Ted Bundy would take pictures of the people after where Robert Ben Rhodes had those pictures.

It's crazy. It all adds up. Again, if you read the book, they have the full list. I think it's 22 tendencies and Mel had at least 17 of the 22. Oh, damn. Oh, damn is right. Wow. But this jury wouldn't know that because there was still a lot to be unfolded.

Oh man. So the two big things for the prosecution were supposed to be the tape from the ice cream meeting and the testimonial of Marianne Shore in low ho face herself. Yeah. Neither work to benefit them. Why? Because the jury went back and forth on what words were being said, like I said earlier in the tape. They had said, was it Doug or got and was it sight or safe? And nobody could fucking agree on what it was. See, the sight or safe thing doesn't seem like it would make a big deal because like there's a safe for this not a safe either way it's a sight.

Well, I mean, it was like, were talking and like, what was the, Doug and God. Doug and God makes a big difference. Doug and God makes a huge difference. That's the one that would, I guess safe in sight does too though, because it's like, because then Charlie Ricketts,

okay, so Charlie Ricketts did a good job of putting a safe in the mind of the jurors because when he was crossing the examining Marianne, he asked her about the safe and he was like, why did you call, why'd you call Mel about this safe, and then decide that you didn't need it. Like you and Butch didn't want it anymore. And on the stand, she was like, what?

Like what are you talking about? She had no, like she was actually like clearly confused, but he's putting it in the mind like, maybe it's a safe. That's very there. Exactly. So she was confused about that, but the jury was like, okay, you know, and at that point, she was already

and thanks to her fucking self and unreliable witness to the jury. So she had walked into court wearing a super, super short skirt. And when she sat on, then she had gained a lot of weight too, which like whatever, live your life, but will not you. not you but she will not you she you can't do anything Marian she was sitting like way back like like chilling on the witness stand and her legs were crossed so she was showing a lot of thigh game to everybody

yeah she wasn't doing the princess sit no keep your ankles together and Kenton County was like a very nice place in Kentucky and they were fucking horrified and they were like, ew! And also she sat there most of the time with her head rested on her fist. Because she was bored, man. She didn't give a single fuck at all.

So they were like, yeah, I actually don't believe anything that you say. And then she sat there on the stand, basically just super cold and matter of a fact in her testimony while she's recalling all the horrific details in just this flat tone. Yeah, she's like, Brenda came over and Mal made her do this and I joined and then I got a glass of water. I was real thirsty.

Then we had a question and it's important. I have an app on my phone. I do guys have that bottle that tells you what times to drink water, I do. It was fun. I have one of water. I was real thirsty. Then hydration is important. I have an app on my phone. I do. Do you guys have that bottle that tells you what times to drink water? I do. It was fun. I have one of those.

Keeps me on track. Check out my thigh game. What are we talking about? What? Huh? I'm only getting five years right. Ridiculous. So that happened.

She was, and everybody was just like, OK, like this is disgusting. She also didn't shed one single fucking tear. The entire time she was up there. Now you can make the argument that like, you're too nervous to cry, but like, you're talking about a horrific murder that you quote unquote didn't want to be involved in

and you were still scared. You're not crying? And it's like, even if you're too, you know, terrible of a human being and sociopathic to cry for someone else, you're not even crying for yourself. And I'm not even crying for your ass. Like you're going to jail. They were like, this woman is fucked up.

And the man you supposedly love is gonna go away for a long time, a long time, but not at all. Oh, it's just really, it's just really aggravating. It makes me really angry. So she didn't show a single tear. And this also worked out for the defense because there was not one single piece of physical evidence linking Mel to Brenda that night. There was one partial print found in the car

but it couldn't be linked to him and although he had given both public public Hubert care and like head hair samples. They didn't find anything on her. Really? Isn't that crazy? But who's to say that he didn't cleaner? Oh, yeah. I mean, they said themselves that the progress that he was very particular.

Yeah, and I don't think they would have been able to tell based on how badly she was decompanosed. And he had planned this so meticulously to the tea, I mean, putting the nail in the tire and driving it until it couldn't drive anymore, putting it in a place, it's like, that's very planning, very meticulous. So I don't think he would leave traces of himself. And even if he didn't clean her, like maybe TMI time,

but like who's to say he didn't prepare his other regions. That's very true. Like I'm sure murderers do that. Which, man, I wish they could be like, drop your pants, Mal, you gotta show the whole court. Well, don't you worry, cause we're gonna get something like that later. Oh shit.

At the end of this, you're just gonna clap and like cry happy tears. Oh boy. Happy happy tears. Happy happy tears. In closing arguments, Charlie Rickets decided to drone on for a total of four hours. That's the worst thing you can do. Oh, a pair of the nons. A pair of the nons. A pair of the nons. A pair of the nons., I'm a big deal. You lost people after four minutes.

He listed over 50 reasons why there was a reasonable doubt in the case against Mel. He listed 50 reasonable doubts that they should have. Wow. And that wasn't enough. He also urged jurors that they might regret their decision to find a man guilty solely on circled and substantial evidence right around Christmas time.

You might think about this decision while you sit in church and you might be reminded that Jesus himself was prosecuted the same way. Wow. Now, that's not like a direct quote, but that's basically what he was saying.

He brought big J into the game. Which I didn't even think you could do that. Like, I didn't think that was allowed. I think it's crazy that that's allowed, if it is. Separation of church and state. Yeah, you got to separate that shit. If I was the judge, I is. Separation of church and state. Yeah, you gotta separate that shit. If I was the judge, I would've been like,

overruled, you're like sustained. You can't bring J-man into this. I would've just said shut the fuck up. That's why I'm not a judge. Can't do it. He told them, yeah, you know, you're gonna regret this. He also suggested that Marianne, now this is insane. This is what he thought happened,

or what he was getting paid to say happened. Yeah, exactly. That he suggested that Marianne had acted alone This is insane. This is what he thought happened, or what he was getting paid to say happened. Exactly. He suggested that Mary Ann had acted alone and that she had followed Brenda after she left Mel's home that night, saw that she was having car trouble, saw the chance to get rid of Brenda herself so that she could live happily ever after with Mel. So she did, she kidnapped her and killed her herself. No.

That's not even plausible. plausible or plausible or plausible. It's not plausible, it's nothing. It's nothing, that's nothing. That's done. Chally. It was so stupid. Come on.

So Jasmine's closing argument lasted an hour, which is like nice enough, and he was like, I'm not even gonna fucking, like, I'm not even gonna fucking, I'm not even gonna talk about your points because your points are stupid. And like, your moot. I don't have time to do this. He didn't say I don't have time to do this, but he was like, it would be a waste of time

to even like, address most of us. Exactly. He was like, I'm not doing that. What he said was that Mel had prayed on Mary Ann's jealous ways and used her knowing that she would have done anything to get him back. He said that the witnesses who testified for the events all put Brenda in different places around the same time, so that was just bullshit.

And he even said, even though there's no physical evidence, there was strong evidence against Mel, because a former girlfriend named Barbara had come forward and told investigators a few months before Mel was arrested, he dropped off a bag at her house and asked her to keep it, because if the police found it at his house, it wouldn't look good for him, you know. And she didn't think much of it at the time. Because it was just like,

and well, nothing had come out yet about like what Mary Ann had said actually. But I'm sorry, if an ex-boyfriend shows up at my house, and it's like can you hold this bag for me because if the police come It's gonna look bad for me. Yeah, I'd be like it was a current boyfriend like it was our current boyfriend I'd be like no, yeah, why would the police be after you? Why would this look bad? What is happening? Definitely not question That's what happens when you date a fugitive So she she didn't question this at all. But what was in the bag was a bottle of KY jelly,

oh, the vibrating massager, and a box of condoms. Oh, but do you know what though? She threw it in a dumpster because she didn't want it in her house either. So they didn't have that to go off of. So again, just more circumstantial evidence. And more people fucking it up.

Exactly. All the things that Marianne Shore had said, Mel used during the attack on Brenda, we're right there in that bag. Oh my god. And then on top of that, a fraternity battle was also seized from Mel's home that would corroborate Mary Ann's account of Mel's striking and having her strike Brenda. So, at least they did have that at least, but there was nothing on it because he fucking cleaned it, of course.

The jury was initially split, which is insane to me. And after Jasmine would say that he never saw a jury play detective the way that they had instead of just listening to the fucking evidence and testimonies presented to them during the trial. He didn't say fucking, but I did. Yeah, he thought it. Yeah. They relied on like theories that they came up with themselves. And many again just wanted to be home in time for Christmas, so they changed their mind at the last second to come to a unanimous decision.

Wow. That is beyond. for Christmas, so they changed their mind at the last second to come to a unanimous decision. Wow. That is beyond. So it was eight to four originally, eight people wanting to acquit and four people being like, no, this guy's guilty. And somehow the eight of them got the four to change their minds basically so that they could get out of there. Can you imagine, no, can you imagine going into something like this,

like this kind of trial? A high profile murder. Like, grew some horrific murder and being like, I'd really just like to go home though, because it's Christmas. Yeah, so let this guy just walk. It's like, what? Oh, it gets worse.

So obviously they would regret that decision later. They also had the audacity to be laughing and like talking loudly in the jury room, like passing back phone numbers. They were like feet away from the shaper family. What the fuck? And it gets worse. It came out after the trial that they stayed in deliberation longer than necessary so that they would be able to eat the Chinese food that the court had ordered for them. Get the fuck out.

Are you kidding me? Yup. And one of them said they didn't wanna waste the taxpayers' money. Oh yeah. We don't wanna do that. We don't wanna do that. You just wanted some chicken fingers

and you're a piece of shit. And it's like you're still wasting the taxpayers' money. But regardless. You think I wanna pay you just as if they're any Chinese food, get outta here. It's wild. It made me so angry.

How did they get a group of such shitty individuals altogether for this? I don't know. So they went intentionally to find them. Well, they just, they fucked up in Jerry's election. Yeah. And the judge was like shocked when they read the verdict because he was like, if this was a case where I was the decision maker completely and like it wasn't based on a jury, we would have had a quick recess,

I would have come back and read the guilty verdict. Oh my God, and that should tell you everything you need to know. Mm-hmm, but after six hours and 15 minutes of quote deliberation, I need some Chinese food. They came back with a verdict of not guilty. That's... Mel had been acquitted on all charges

of rape, murder, sodomy, kidnapping, and tampering with evidence. Of course he did, he's fucking Mel. What the fuck? So obviously, Brenda Shapr's family and friends are shocked. Absolutely. Everyone who worked this case, like all the investigators, were shocked, and the people of Louisville, Louisville, theville,

were outraged, of course. Because they're like, we know people of Louisville, Louisville, theville were outraged. Of course. Because they're like, we know this guy did it, and as far as they were concerned, this murderer's just walking around the streets every day. And investigators did their job here. And that's what they did. They did what they needed to do,

and they still didn't get the W. Right, Charlie, Ricketts tried to make it look like they did a shitty job, but they did not at all. It sounds like they did what they needed to do. And you have to give them credit because there was four different police jurisdictions working on this case and they still didn't fuck it up. I didn't even think of that.

Exactly. Law enforcement specifically knew something had to be done. They aren't gonna be able to get Mel again on murder of Brenda ever again because of double jeopardy. So if you don't know, double jeopardy is a clause of the fifth amendment I can't talk. And essentially it states that the same person cannot be tried more than once for the same crime.

But as with anything in law, just ask Ashley, Ashley Judd, you know that I'm technically named after Ashley Judd? Wow. Yeah. Good movie though. Good movie though. But as with anything in law, like I said, there's loopholes. So during the grand jury investigation, Mel had gone on the stand and said he hadn't

had any communication with Mary and Shore since April. Now, that was in part two, you remember. No communication with her since April. And as Morrie says, we determined that was a lie. Not true. They could get him on charges of perjury. Oh, look at them. So here we go.

But we love a loophole. They had a lot to do this time to ensure that Mel would face like a good amount of jail time because they were like, we're not just going to put him in jail for three years. I don't have like a perjury charge. So they got multiple, luckily. But they went over every piece of evidence

with a fine tooth comb and they came up with things that were going to be wicked compelling to the jury. Ooh. First and foremost, they had a mannequin that resembled Brenda and it was able to be moved in the different positions that Mel had forced Brenda into to kind of have an impact on the jury. Like this is what happened. Yeah. And they were able to get Marianne to cooperate a second time and explain everything again so that they could take pictures and be like, these are what the pictures would have looked like when this happened.

Oh. So Marianne had actually received the full five years for tampering with evidence, which is not something that happens a lot. You don't normally get the full five years, but obviously she sucks, so she did. Obviously. And she was like a little hesitant to help them at first because she really just wanted to serve her sentence.

I'm a little miffed. And then they were like, yeah, what about the shaper family? And she was like, you right. You right. So she helped, thank God. They also brought in a pocket calendar that Mel had kept on him that was like seized, that he was arrested along with the paddle and some other stuff. And everything like leading up to the murder was blacked out, like completely blacked out.

But there was this document examiner named Steve Slider. He was an expert in his field and was able to figure out what had been written in Mel's calendar even after it was completely to figure out what had been written in Mel's calendar even after it was completely blacked out. Amazing. And he said he was like, normally it's really hard if like it's written in one pen and the same pen is blacked out over it. That makes sense.

But he did it. And it took him hundreds of hours, microscopes, and different lights, but he finally got it. The logs leading up to the days of Brenda's murder for almost a month would say, call MA, call BS, meaning Mary Ann, Brenda Schaefer. And then on the 23rd, it said, MA Cat Tales Shovel Supplies. Woo. Nobody really knows what Cat Tales or Cat Tales was. Cattails, isn't there like a, isn't there like a whip thing that's like a cat of nine tails? Look at you, I don't know. I don't know.

I'm just, members of the BDSM community, can you tell me if I'm right there? I think it's like there's like a whip that I believe is called like a cat of nine tails. Rihanna, where you at? Like someone let me know. I'm sure there is.

I think there is a thing. So maybe that's what it was. So maybe that was part of it. Maybe heanna, where you at. Like someone let me know. I'm sure there is a thing. So maybe that's what it was. So maybe that was part of it. Maybe he used that. Maybe. And so that was on the list. And then again, shovel and supplies. So like, I think you just cracked the code of what cat tails were.

Yeah. And then shovel to dig. Shovel to dig and supplies to clean up to supply. There was also an entry on September 24th that said the words, spank, and eat later. Then beat, dot, dot, dot, sex slash keep bound in house, dot, dot, dot unrealistic idea. Wow. So obviously he was just brainstorming it literally, like really terrible brainstorming, like act like a, like a vent diagram. So he was literally thinking about like, okay, I could eat, I could beater again, and then I could keep her in my house. And then he's like,

that's unreal. Don't do that. That's one. So I think the eat later was in reference to the chili that he got that night at Skyline Chili. Oh, yeah. Sorry that I said Skyline Chili. Yes. Sometimes it's hard to read your own handwriting. It is. It's really hard. So I think that's what that was. And he did that obviously because not for nothing He's a smart fucking dude to secure his alibi. Yeah, so he's like do this go eat go back unrealistic do this go back He's saying like he at first he was like I'll just keep her in the house And I'll leave to go eat so I can put myself somewhere else Exactly and then and then he's like, but that's unrealistic.

Right. Wow. So obviously everybody's super excited about those findings, like duh. A peek into the mind. A peek into the mind. But little did they know there was an even bigger one on its way. Oh, oh. So when Mel gave up his share of the house to his mom, she had left it to his children.

But then it was given to his attorneys at some point because he hadn't paid any of his legal fees. And also, just as high note neither did what's her face, Maryann, Twatthead. Oh, they didn't pay them legal fees. She wrote bad checks to her terror guy. Oh, that's shocking. Yeah, that's what it was.

She's never done that before. Jack Vitatow. Jack Vitatow. Jack Vitatow. He wasatow. Jack Vitatow. Jack Vitatow. He was like, I hate that woman. So the house was eventually sold to a couple named Ronald and Judith Watkins. They bought the house in January of 1991, and they let the investigator search it once,

but then they were like, I'm not, like, they denied any more searches, because their house already was a spectacle spectacle because it was the old male house. Of course. And they were like, if we find anything, we'll call you, but like we would prefer if there's not so much police presence here all the time because we just like the house and we want to live peacefully. Yeah.

And can we just exist? Right. They also decided that they hated the chocolate brown carpet that male had going through most of the house. And they decided, let's replace the carpet. Oh, replace the carpet guys. The carpet layers came out on October 1st, almost two weeks before Mel's federal trial was supposed to start, and while they were pulling up the carpet and the hallway off

of the kitchen, they realized it was really difficult to pull up, and when they finally did get it up, there was like these big ass staples, like it had been professionally like, put the fuck in there. And then the guy who pulled up the carpet was like, what the fuck, why is there a heating duck underneath this carpet? Oh.

Like why would that be under a carpet and why would it be in front of a door like this? Oh no. He looked down into the vent and saw that there was a clear zip lock bag taped to the side of it. Inside that bag was jewelry and three small black canisters. Can? Ugh, I can't, I can't, I can't.

I'd be losing my mind already. He called into Judith. Do you know that there's a heating duck here? Do you know what they say? And Judith said, do you know who used to live here? Oh my God. And then Judith called the FBI. Judith.

So everyone in Louisville, Louisville, knew about the brand-a-su-shaver case and they knew that there was supposedly pictures taken of the abuse leading up to the murder and they knew that there was missing jewelry involved as well. And Judith immediately called the investigators who promptly sent the FBI to the scene. Oh, man. I am excited. The film was That scared me Shoot Was that you I accidentally pulled my charger out of the wall.

Oh, I did it. I was like, I don't know what I thought happened. Well, anyways, they sent the FBI there. You kind of threw off my groove. I know, I'm sorry. Let's get hold on. We'll get back in. I honestly thought that there was a laundry room ghost

that was also really excited. It was like, bitch, say what the fuck happened. So if somebody just comes through the wall and is like, fit in. She was like, did you hear what the fuck I said? Just kidding. Okay, so the film was developed. It's not funny. No, like I'm ready. Okay, so the film was developed and it showed exactly what Marianne had said it would. In fact, some of the investigators were haunted at how spot on it was. Because they took the photos that Marianne had described taking in an effort to re-enact the crime scene with the Brenda lookalike mannequin.

They took those photos and then they put them side-by-side and they were like, these are essentially identical. So she committed that to memory. Which is like, you would think that you would block that out of your memory. You would think that was something you didn't want to be there for. You would think.

Huh. The only issue was that the man in the photos was photographed, so as not to show his face. Of course, because he thought of everything. But don't worry, because that was not a problem. Good. The investigators requested an order from the judge to have Mel, Ignato, Ignato, I don't care.

Photographed nude to compare to the photos. They were like, show your balls, Mel. Ugh. The judge was like, hell yeah! And Mel was arrested on his way to go get ice cream. Fuck that guy! A huge lactose love. Ew.

Immediately brought into custody where they photographed him nude and they made him pose in the same poses that he had made Brenda pose Okay, Brenda pose including the one with his hands behind his head This is my favorite part of anything I've ever heard they made him do it in the nude Can we make every asshole who does this kind of shit do this? Well, it was a great because Mel was fucking pissed Oh, I would love it especially because he felt humiliated. Oh, he does yeah poor baby There was a female investigator in the room dear Dr. Fike and she had she worked for the FBI and she had been with the case from the very fucking Beginning she was the one she was the one who was there the day, Maryann confessed everything. Oh damn.

So she, so Mel was like, I'm not gonna strip while there's a female in the room. And it's like, oh, you're so fucking respectable. So modest. But I think you just wanted to be annoying. And she was like, but Melly boy, we have this order. So like, you have to. And I'm not going anywhere.

So why don't you go ahead and put your elbows to the side. Click, click. Deirdre. Oh, I love you, Deirdre. not going anywhere so why don't you go ahead and put your elbows to the side click click stand oh I love you do so much oh um so it was just great and the moles on his chest and arms were a perfect match to the man and the photos with Brenda oh thank god he's a moly bastard the better match he was wearing the exact same watch that he wore that day. Wow. He was wearing the same fucking watch that he had worn the day he killed Brenda. Like three, some, I don't know how many years it was later. A lot of years ago. For someone so particular, these dudes always make those kind of stupid, weird, ticky mistakes. But it's not, I don't even think it was a mistake in his eyes. I think he had gotten away with Marcel.

He was absolutely. And he looked at that as like, like fuck all of you, I'm wearing the same watch. But that's why it's a mistake. Yeah. Because it's like if you were really meticulous and really smart, you would get rid of every fucking thing that you had on that day and get rid of it and never be connected to it.

But you're done. But you just can't. Exactly. Because they have to look back on it. They all do it. They all do it. Oh, karma karma karma. And it brings them down every time. It does.

So Mel took a deal to avoid going to trial again, of course. And he pled guilty to multiple counts of perjury. His sentence was to be eight years. What? Yeah, it's, you don't get a lot of perjury, unfortunately. Fuck. Don't worry. After pleading guilty, he addressed the court and the shaffer family, and he said, quote,

on September 24, 1988, I did take Brenda Sue Shaffer over to Marion Shore's house on popular level road, and I did physically and sexually abuse her and I did murder her. She died from having inhaled chloroform. She died peacefully. He said it again. After telling her family that I like raped and abused your daughter for hours. But don't worry. She died peacefully. I made her huff in some chemical fumes, so she died peacefully. And you know what? I actually almost wonder if how you said earlier, he put her in the bag like before. She, I wonder if he's like, she died peacefully knowing that she was still alive in that bag.

That's a really good point. I would not be surprised if he, because the way he tied her to makes me think that he knew she was waking up. Yeah. And he was going to make sure she didn't claw out of that bag and somehow, because they didn't put her in a box. They just put her in a bag. Right.

So it's, I'm not saying it would be easy to climb out of earth. You know what I mean? But like, if you're not in a box, that's one less thing to climb through. He might have tied her like that because he knew he was putting her in there. And maybe he just never told anybody and like kept that for her. And Marianne's just an idiot, I don't even think of it. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think you're right.

Because I think it gave him like some pleasure to look at them and be like, she'd add peace fully. Oh yeah. And I think he probably he, he's a sexual satist. So it probably gave him a thrill to tie her in all those positions and know she's gonna wake up. Right. Like he put her in the ground in that bag being like, this is like getting me going.

Yeah. Well, do you want to know what happened to him? I do. So Mel served 10 years altogether because the state actually pressed further perjury charges against him and Carmagot has asked one last time in 2008 when he fell on a glass coffee table and blood out to death That's amazing this not the same glass top coffee table But I wish it was he had done that to Brenda. Oh, man, and he fell and he cut his arm, and whacked his head on a glass coffee table and fucking

blood out all over the place. Just laid there and blood. He was 70, and it was his time to get the fuck off of our planet. We won't miss you, Mel. And that was the case of Brenda Sue Schaefer. I feel like so happy that we did that case because I like weirdly feel connected to Brenda because she just looked like the sweetest human alive. I, that was intense.

That gave me all kinds of feelings. The fact. Wow. The fact that he died on a glass coffee table. Yeah, that's some poetic justice. I feel as though like somebody upstairs was doing Brenda's all right. The universe was working. It does.

Working overtime. Working overtime. Working overtime. Thank you, universe. Oh yeah, so. Wow, that was amazing. Thanks. It's terrible. All at the same time.

Well, if you'd like to see photos of a Twatt face McGee and Twatt face McGoo, you can go on over to Instagram at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. A Morbid Podcast. Send us a Gmail. That's where the case suggestions go. Not to my personal DMs, even though I love you.

More bid podcast at gmail.com. We have, and the reason that they can't go to Ashes personal DMs is, like, I can't keep track of them. Because we have trouble keeping them together. We have, we put them in a folder in the Gmail. And we don't want to lose good listener tails, because they're getting like hidden in Ashes DMs. So just make sure if you're doing a listener tail, send folder in the Gmail. And we don't want to lose good listener tails because they're getting like hidden in just the end. So just make sure if you're doing a listener tail,

send it to the email. In case suggestions, because we have folders for everything. Yeah, exactly. We love organizational tabs. And we don't want to lose like good stuff because they're going to several different areas. So just email.

Exactly. Thank you. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're not so weird that you go to the ice cream store and you're like oh my god I'm gonna confess everything but not confess and the FBI tape doesn't turn out that well And then you're like Marianne you just have to be as cool as I am and then you go to trial and you're like Oh my god double jeopardy

I'm not even guilty and then they're like hold up hold up wait and you go to get some more ice cream And then they arrest you and then they photograph you in the nude because you suck a big toe and then you go to jail forever And ever and then you fall in a glass coffee table and hit your head and bleed out like the fucking monster that you are Bye now don't keep it that weird Mel's a fucking worm EW then you go to jail forever and then you fall in a glass coffee table and hit your head and bleed out like the fucking monster that you are. Goodbye Mal, don't keep it that weird. Mal's a fucking worm. Ew. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple

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