Morbid - Episode 166: Ian Brady & Myra Hindley AKA The Moors Murderers Part 1

Episode Date: August 24, 2020

It's here. Alaina has been both anticipating and dreading this day since Morbid's conception. We all have those cases that have haunted us since we first read them, and this is one of those rare nightmares that will stay with you long after you hear it. Today Alaina covers Part 1 of The Moors Murders. Tonight, we talk about Ian Brady and Myra Hindley's lives before they met each other, we look into their fateful meeting and their toxic relationship and we hate on them, hard. Part 2 and Part 3 will follow in succession. This case is a doozy. Books used in this episode: Ian Brady:The Untold Story of the Moors Murders By Dr. Alan Kneightly Evil Relations By David Smith & Carol Ann Lee Depraved: The Moors Murders By C.G.C. Cook The Monstering of Myra Hindley By Nina Wilde Thanks to our sponsors! Thrive Market Go to Thrive Market.com/MORBID. Join today and you’ll get a FREE gift of your choosing, up to $22 dollars in value. Embark This summer, Embark has a limited time offer just for our listeners! Go to Embarkvet.com now and use Promo code MORBID to get $50 off your Dog Breed and Health kit. BetterHelp Visit betterhelp.com/Morbid and join the over 1,000,000 people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional and get 10% off your first month See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Oh yeah this one's gonna be a doozy huh. Music Guys, guys, guys, guys, girls. This one, this is one of those cases. It's just one of those cases. A deep dark spooky horrific brutal gruesome case. Yeah, that about covers it. And so we're going to be covering the Moors murders by Ian Brady and Mairahindale. We're probably going to be covering them in three parts. One, two, three. And Alina's decided to really put her frickin pencil to the paper kind of. And she's going

to give you all the cases two days apart. Exactly. We're not going to make you wait long for these ones because they're really intense. and I've pretty much already finished them. So you're going to get them. There's only going to be two days between each one. Then they're going to be right after the other part. No cases in between. You're going to get like full moors murders for the entire week. So you'll be done by Saturday. Well, just so you know, I guess I'll try to do something light and fluffy on Wednesday. Yeah, just to make it a light fluffy. Yeah, so it's gonna be all murder, more murders all the time this week. Get excited because it's terrible. Get your butt glued together.

Yeah, just gorilla glue your hands to your butt to hold it together. Because this is a case. I think I mentioned it last week when I was saying I was going to cover this. This is a case that was, you know how everybody who's been in the true crime forever has that one case. You have a couple cases that just have stuck with you, a couple cases that you like couldn't get enough of reading about. You just absorbed everything you could about them. And this is that case for me. It was one of those cases that I could not stop reading about. So that's why this is going to be a very long and very involved case and learn three cases probably because I just couldn't leave.

There's so much about them. There's so much about the cases. There's so much that happen after the murders. Yeah. There's just so much that we can't just give you like this quick little like boop about it because it just will not do, will not do. The victim's justice really, so you're gonna get all

the information. Do we wanna bring back something that people have missed a lot for these three episodes? Ooh, I think if Annie's willing, she's over there. What do you think about a couple palette cleansers, Ann? Yeah. All right, got one together. All right, we'll have a palette cleanser for this episode.

Yes. Which we might use it pretty early on the episode because I think most of this one, we're going to talk about MyRen and we're going to talk about their lives and we're going to talk about how they got together and their relationship. Okay. But I'm going to start it off real bad. Okay. So we might need one right away.

All right, well Annie, well the Palette Cleansers after the palette has been destroyed. So Annie, shoot me a text when you're ready with your Palette Cleanser, get us together right now. And Alina, you know what, just fucking hop right into this bizarre horrible mess. All right, everybody, it's a doozy. Do you love that I just like assigned everybody?

I was like, I'm the captain. That was great. I'm the captain now. That you delegated. It's a dude. Do you love that I just like assigned everybody? I was like I'm the captain That was great. I'm the captain now that you delegated. That's you. That's what boss ass bitches do They delegate while I was doing that I also like shoved some of my sparkly eye shadow and that was in the corner of my eye I saw that into the inside of my eye and now you're just digging on and she's having a moment But she's having a moment. It's okay. Don't worry about me Go on, you know what? You might as well make yourself cry right now because you're about to.

So, I mean, this case in the UK is infamous. To this day, it is that case. They all hear about, I'm sure all our UK listeners are like, yep, yep, no, this one. Everybody knows this case, it's intense. I know of the case, but I don't, I'm gonna find out a lot today. It's just so much. I'm right here with you. Just in case anybody wants to check out what I read

for part one and actually part two and three as well, but I'm probably gonna add some more things on to the citation list for that one. But so far, what I've been reading and what I got this information from are the books Ian Brady, the untold story of the Moors murders by Dr. Allen Knightley. That one's a really good book. It is told kind of in Ian's words at times. It's because Dr. Allen Knightley spoke often with Ian Brady and actually like had a full-blown Communication with him for a long period of time Ian Brady actually left him things in his will So it's a really first-hand account. He kind of dispels a lot of rumors But he does not like soften anything that Ian Brady did. He tells it like it is

He just gives kind of the facts from his point of view as well. I also read DePraved the Mores Murders. That's by C.G.C. Cook. And I also read Evil Relations, the man who bore witness against the Mores Murders by David Smith with Carol Ann Lee. That is actually written with the help of a witness to the last murder. So that's a crazy one. I fully recommend it and we're gonna talk more about that one probably in part two, but the last one I read, and it kind of infuriated me, but I suppose it's kind of interesting to read, and I think it's not

a bad one to at least have another perspective. It's called the monster of Myra Hinley, and it's by Nina Wilde, who was said to be her lover later in life when she was in prison. So it's definitely got another vibe to it, and I think it's told a little way more fluffier than it should be. It definitely, like I said, the Alan Knightly one is very straightforward, very like unbiased, just with more first-hand account from Ian, but the Nina Wilde one seems very biased, and very much saying that Maira was totally manipulated by Ian, and she had nothing to do with it. But I really recommend all four of these books just to get some different information to

Comparin contrast and I will definitely be adding to that list in the next couple of parts But start with those and I will link them in the show notes It happened between 1963 and 1965 that's when the murders occurred at least Mainly this revolves around Saddleworth Moors, which is what? Moors are just vast lands. It's like fields. Yeah, like think like weathering heights. Okay. It's just like open plains and it's just like this massive amount of land. It's just like this massive amount of land. Okay.

I mean, there's like rocky portions, there's marsh portions. It's just a lot of land. Okay. They're beautiful. Moors are beautiful, but these are very tainted. Okay. The killings took place sometimes in the moors, and also the bodies would be buried on the moors.

Okay. So these are located in West Yorkshire, and they became, which later I think West Yorkshire became Manchester later, or like part of it did. Any Manchester United fans out there? Shout out to my stepmom. There you go. Oh, glory.

That's the song. That's like what's happening right now. But any of our UK listeners who can, you know, probably tell us better about that. I just read like a quick little thing that's a like part of its nomanchester and whatever, I just wanted to put it out there. So before we get into speaking about these two absolute blights on the human.

These kindred spirit. Yeah, these, I mean, I want to give you a quick glimpse into what they did because at times you might feel tempted to feel for them or relate to them. Now remember, we feel bad for the child them. Exactly. We don't feel bad for what they did later. Well, because we're going to talk about their childhoods, we're going to talk about their

relationship. It has a tendency sometimes to humanize these people. So I really want to dehumanize them right off the jump so that nobody has nobody ends up being like, oh gross, I felt bad for them for a minute. Yeah. I'm going to help you out with that. You're welcome. I'm just thinking about you guys. You're welcome in advance. Exactly. So Ian in particular can be very easily perceived as like charming intelligent worldly. Like when you read about one of your ex-boyfriends, which you posted on Twitter, but if you don't have a Twitter,

now you know everyone. It's pretty upsetting. I was like, why does he look so familiar? High school boyfriends. And then he looked at that mugshot and I was like, oh, I tweeted at you and I was like, well, fuck. He'll go shit. I was like, I need that image. He really does. It's upsetting. Sorry. Well, so he can be seen as like charming, intelligent, all that good stuff.

But that also came along with some of the most evil shit that I've ever heard of. And he's someone who took what he wanted, when he wanted it, and he just left chaos everywhere he went. And he did that for basically his entire life. He was a career thief. He was just a career thief. He like burglarized houses his entire like, oh, okay, his entire like, what's the career theme? I was like, what? Like, he started when he was much younger.

Gotcha. And he did it basically as a second career. Okay. Like, he made money out of it. He lived with it. I thought he was stealing people's jobs. No, he did do that. Wow.

Like a criminal. So many people are going, oh, I love when they say that. He was very overly satisfied with himself to the level of such extreme narcissism that it'll make your ears bleed to hear his quotations. Oh God. Dude thinks he is just the beast needs the smartest, but he had a pretty happy childhood. I'll be it unconventional, but he had a pretty happy childhood. So I'm not going to feel bad for him. You're not. You might feel bad for Myra, whatever. But you're not after this.

Okay. Don't worry, but. But Myra's childhood was tough. She was, I mean, she was up until the bitter end, ugliest fucking sin. Knock you. She was, and I'll feel bad saying that, because she's literally coming out of the earth.

You can do whatever you want. And she was obsessed with Ian to the point of almost making you want to feel pity for her. Oh. Because she was into him in a very obsessive, like, preteen, like, swooning over him kind of way. Gotcha. And as we'll see later, that was not,

it was not reciprocated at first. Like it was like the poster on your bed, your mom, that you like kiss before you got a bed. Exactly. And sad. Eventually it changes, but at first you could see that and we'll go into like her diary entries and such about it. So you could be like, oh my god, but just remember she's a shit stain. It's always great when they find a diary.

Yeah, exactly. So all of this could make you feel bad for her at points. I'm sure, you know, again, feel bad for young Myra with the abusive alcoholic father. Yeah. Definitely feel bad for that. But she made a choice to be an evil son of a bitch as an adult, and that's solely on her. Exactly. Not only did she make a choice, but she embraced that despicable side of herself and deserves to be admonished just as much as Ian Brady does. So let's get it.

Well, Maira in particular gets a lot of sympathizers. Still. Do you think it's because she's a woman? For sure. Well, and people see her as someone who went bad purely because of Ian Brady and her need to police him. In my opinion, that doesn't happen. You know, it's just very, very rarely does that happen.

When it comes to crimes as severe as this one, right, you got it in you. It's like, again, I feel like I'm really focusing on this person, but Carla Hamoka, like people want to do, well, Paul Bernardo made her do it. And it's like, she wanted to do that. People that are capable of doing things like this,

it's in them or it's not. Exactly. Well, and that's the thing, none of the investigators who worked on this case think Maira was anything other than an equal part of a truly evil whole. They were like, she was an equal opportunity fuck up in this whole thing.

It was not him manipulating her into it, she wanted to do it. It's like somehow these two fucked up people found each other. Exactly. And there's audio of some of these crimes. And Maira can be heard participating and being supremely cruel and abusive to these children. Oh, no. She is just as evil as Ian. And her attempt to be seen later as a battered and manipulated woman is maddening.

Oh, no. Like maddening. And it's so fucking false, it's false. Obviously, those tapes are not released. No one is. And we're not gonna read the transcripts. Oh, absolutely not. I don't even think there is transcripts to be honest.

They're not. They're horrific. And, but just hearing what is on those tapes from the investigators, she was very much in equal participants. And for her to later say, which she will talk about later, her to later say, you know, I was,

at one point she said she was running a bath during the whole thing, so she wasn't paying attention. That was how we used to be so friendly. So we were like, evil in and of itself. And it's like, no, we can hear you on the tape. Like you're participating in it,

but thank you. Go try though. Thank you for that. It just makes me want to scream. And they're both abhorrent, but Myra's need to be seen as a victim just makes me hate her on such a separate level, not more just on a separate level. Because when somebody is like you said so evil at a willing participant and then later when they're caught they're like, oh no. They want sympathy. Yeah. It's like shot. She wants sympathy. Well, we're're gonna get into the crimes in detail in part two.

That's gonna be a very rough episode. Great. And we're gonna talk about their interviews from prison and how they turned on each other, maybe in part three. But this sneak peek is just so you can remember right from the jump that they are not a sad story of people let us stray. They are irredeemable, hateful, depraved affliction on the very fabric of humanity.

The way she writes everybody, that is who they are. This bitch. So everybody just keep that in mind for the whole thing, that is who they are, they are terrible. Just put that in your noggin' bitch. Just hold onto that. They had five victims between 63 and 65. They were Edward Evans who was 17 years old.

Oh my god. Keith Bennett who was 12 years old. Pauline Reed who was 16 years old. John Kilbride who was 12 years old. And Leslie and Downey who was 16 years old, John Kilbride, who was 12 years old, and Leslie and Downey, who was 10 years old. 10 years old. So young, young children across the board. And Leslie and Downey is the example I'm going to give you a brief glimpse at before moving

on to Ian and Myr's Lives and their relationship with each other. I chose Leslie to drive my point home with not because her death is in some way more important than Edward Keith Pelliner-Johns. I know. Not that. It's just because there's tangible evidence to show the evil of Ian and Myra that I think we'll keep everyone in the correct mindset while we talk about their lives. So they kidnapped, tortured, sexually assaulted, filmed, recorded, and then murdered. Leslie and Downey in their home. Wow. The audio of her please and cries to go home is 16 minutes long.

At one point, possibly the most heart-wrenching part of the audio. And let me take a deep breath before I mention this part. This is going to be rough, guys, so just get ready. Okay. It's just one sentence, but it's enough. She says to Ian, don't undress me, will you? I want to see Mummy. Oh, no. All while the sound of the Christmas song, Little Drummer Boy is playing in the background,

looped, shut the fuck up. That's like, that's beyond sickening. Like even just saying it, my heart just dropped into my toes. Now, is that something they did on purpose, put on Christmas music on loop? Well, actually, she was abducted the day before Christmas Eve. Oh, wow. But did they put it on loop to be like a scary thing?

Probably. I think they just put it on just to make it more of a chaotic situation for her. Like, because both of them had a lot of fun. Oh, okay. On that audio, both of them are fully into it. So in my retries to say later that like, no, I was not part of that. And meanwhile the investigators are like, oh no, she was very, in fact, she was cruel on that tape. Oh no. So the former police

chief, John Stocker, he passed away in 2019. but he worked on this case and he listened to that 16-minute recording, as did all the investigators. That will change you. He had a lot to say about the effects that this case had on everyone who worked on it. And he said whenever he heard the little drummer boy during Christmas, he said he would have like a physical visceral reaction. You can't even imagine, you must. Yeah, and he said, quote, nothing in criminal behavior has penetrated my heart with quite the same paralyzing intensity. It's an innocent children's Christmas song,

but a chill goes down my spine every time I hear the little drummer boy, because it reminds me of Mairah Hindley. Who, oh, and for him to just say Mairah Hindley, that's interesting. She was a big part of that tape. And he also said, quote, the song brings back terrible memories of having to listen to a tape of Hindley

and her accomplice, Ian Brady, torturing a terrified little lesbian downy with that music playing in the background. He said, quote, I first heard the tape when I was a detective sergeant and manchester investigating the Moore's murders. When the 16 minute tape was played at the police station before the trial, I saw senior detectives and legendary crime reporters, hard men who had been

through the war, and seen terrible things dissolve into tears. Anybody unfortunate enough to have to listen to her harrowing last desperate moments could not fail to conclude that Hindley was evil and an equal partner with Brady in the crimes. So he's like, fuck off. Anybody who listened to that table tell you she is right there with him. Right. So, to me, the I want mummy, that's not- That's just- I mean, I can't- her parents had to listen to that tape to identify their daughter's voice. Are you serious?

Yep. These two demons created a world where Ann West, Leslie's mother, had to hear her baby pleading for her tape. On tape. That is so beyond any kind of redemption. Like, it's unable to be even articulated properly. No. Like, I can't even find the words.

Rarely, can I not find the I can't even find the words. Rarely can I not find the words? I cannot find the words. That's new for you. Like I, and I think it's like the mummy thing. Like for some reason, and I say it all the time, cases like this like really get me. Yeah, you change when you have children.

But it's also like, you think of like the George Floyd case. We call them for his mother. When you said it, that's exactly what I thought of. It's, if you look into that, like, you and I have talked about it, a lot of people's last, one of their last words are like, I want my mom or like mommy or something like that. Exactly, and it's like, that part of that case too was just like, oh my god, and you're just,

I mean, this is me, I'm not speaking for all mothers, I seem mothers who care about their children feel this way, but I don't want to speak for everybody. And I feel like maybe I'm like a little crazier at times because I tried really hard to have my kids and it took us a long time. Yeah. So I feel like very overprotective, possibly

two of the faults, like moderately helped like her. Yeah, moderately crazy. No. But I feel like even when my kids will say, when I'm like, that was not what you just did and I, you know, no snack after lunch. Yeah. When one of them will go like, okay, mama,

I immediately am like, that was mean. You can have a snack. Like, I'm like, you know, I mean, I don't know what it is. It's like the word mama or mummy or mum, when you're a mother. Yeah. To me, I have such like a sense of duty

when that word is like thrown at me. Yeah. So when one of my kids says that, I just feel like I need to immediately be there. I'm right. What? Well, even when you just like give a kid a punishment, like you saying that, like, I remember babysitting like I'm the oldest in the family. So I've babysat like all the grandkids. And like giving them like a punishment, like being like no snack after lunch or like

go sit on the stairs, you see something in their face and it hurts you. It does. You know what you have to say? You have to say it. You have to say it. Exactly. You can't do it. It's so hard.

So for this poor little baby and we're going to post a photo of like the victims obviously and Leslie and Downey is like a baby and she's this beautiful little girl and it's too to look at that little face and for these two demons to hear her say I want my mommy and to have nothing but contempt for. Where did they abduct her from? They abducted her from a fairground. Like a carnival? Yeah. And we're going to go into the detail of the whole thing in part two. Yeah. But um and again as if you know this wouldn't just be enough to make you want to like launch this planet into the sun because there's more to people like this exist on it. Myra doubled down and said, so in 1987, after she had admitted to her role in the murders, she wrote a fucking letter to Leslie and Downey's mother and kidding me. And she acted like she deserved to be pitted.

How was that even allowed? I, if I was the fucking postman or like the guy that took care of the shit at jail, I would have lost that letter. Well, it's unbelievable. She wrote that even allowed. She wrote to this woman acting like she was the victim. There is a quote, so the one of the quotes is,

I know almost everyone describes me as cold and calculating. You are rich. Evil Myra. But I ask you to believe that I find all of this deeply upsetting. Do you? No, you find it upsetting because you're in jail now. That's what you find upsetting. Myra, no one gives a shit that you're upset about being called evil. You ship-brained, busted-faced, whiny little twat. Are you kidding me? Right. You're talking to a woman whose daughter you brutally

assaulted and murdered and filmed it. And you're asking her to please believe in you? And you're saying, I'm so sad that people are calling me evil. Fuck, right off. She's so sad that the evil woman who's writing to her murdered her daughter. Oh, it gets worse.

So then she lies, knowing that Anne has heard the fucking tape of her child's being tortured and murdered, she knew that she heard that. And says, And she said, quote, please believe me, not for my sake, but simply in the hope that it will give you even a little piece of mind. Because that's what I want to do.

That however monstrous and unforgivable the crime was, your child was not tortured to death. No, she was. Also, that doesn't help you disgusting vermin. Like, that's proof right there to me that she doesn't understand human empathy or human emotion. Right. She can't see that it does absolutely nothing to reassure a mother that although you violently abducted, filmed, recorded, and murdered her 12-year-old baby girl that you didn't torture her to death. Right. Like, what? Like, you can't understand, like, why she wouldn't give a shit what you are saying right now? That's like when Mel addressed the family at Brenda Sue Schaefer's case when he finally admitted that he did it and was like, I, like, I raped, I tortured, I took photos, I did all this,

but she died peacefully. Exactly like no, she did it. No one gives a shit and that's not true. And that's just your liar. And that's why you can see that these kind of people are such a different kind of person. They don't understand how like our human brains work. They do not understand basic human empathy or emotion. It's mind-blowing. She started a scam against them in the letter that they didn't fall for. That was caught a year or so later. So she says in the letter, I have written to the home office in the parole board to say I do not wish to be considered for parole. And my own belief is that I shall probably remain in prison until I die. So that sounds nice, right? Okay. That's a good word. Have nice, right? You understand that you shouldn't

get parole. That's real nice, Myra. So she claims she isn't going to go for parole because she's such a good person now and wants to serve her sentence, never be released. So nice, Myra. Well, it turns out that was a ploy that she was manipulative. She didn't want them to show up to the parole hearing. Well, she was trying to get Leslie and Downey's family to stop campaigning against her possible parole and blocking it. Because within a couple of years, she petitioned for parole again and was denied in 1994.

Right. And West continuously petitioned for the government to stop Myra from ever being released until she died in 1999. Wow. R.A.P. And, but her husband, Alan, continued until Myra died in 1999. Wow. R.I.P. I know. And, but her husband, Alan, continued until Myra died in 2012. Thank you, boss.

Or 2002, I'm sorry. But, so she was literally trying to try to manipulate this poor woman whose daughter, she brutally murdered, into dropping her campaign against her getting on a parole so that she could go for parole and not have her blocking it. What a sick twist. Like she's a sick fuck. They both, I mean Ian is just as sick a fuck as we will see, but Myra just, she really tried to the very end to play that victim card.

I just, it's crazy to me. I didn't even realize that victims, families could be contacted by the murder. Yeah, it was unbelievable. There should be some, you know how murderers can't, like people in jail can't write, like she couldn't write to Ian. Yeah, there should be another thing where you can't write to the fucking guy.

Well, actually, her and Ian did communicate at one point. Did that, and there's always loopholes. John Kilbreid's brother also was contacted Myra, they spoke through Myra. Through Myra. Yeah. So let's start with Myra, they spoke. Through Myra. Yeah. So let's start with Myra. Okay.

I took a trip to LA and I was on Hollywood Boulevard and there is someone getting a star on the walk of fame and it was Mr. 305. Pitbull himself. a fame and it was Mr. 305. Pitbull himself. Myra Hindley is called the most evil woman in Britain. I believe that. She was born July 23rd, 1942 in Manchester.

She was born to Nelly and Robert Bob. And Lily. And Lily and Nelly. Her father. And Lennie? And Lennie. Her father Robert fought in World War II. So he wasn't actually around for her birth and he wasn't around until she was like three or four years old. She was raised mainly by her mother Nelly and her grandmother, Ellen. Okay.

Now while the father was away, they lived with Ellen who she called Gran. Okay. She loved Gran. According to everything Gran is a great human being who spoiled her endlessly. Grand sounds like a gem. Yeah, she got along with grand really well. When her father got home from war, they moved into, so they had moved in with grand while he was gone, but then they moved out when the father came back from war.

They moved into a house that was like really close to grand's house, so the whole family was on like one little neighborhood. They had another daughter, Maureen, on August 21, 1946. Maureen and Maya were like best friends. They remained best friends for a long time. So far. He had, so Robert Henley had a tough time adjusting when he came back. PTSD probably.

He had become an alcoholic. He was very abusive. Who knows if PTSD was involved, because it's not like World War II was a great time. So when he got back, there was suddenly lots of fighting between the parents. And when this happened, Myra would walk with her sister,

Maureen, down to her grandparents' house. And eventually, they actually ended up moving in with their grandparents, or their grandmother. Sure. Because grand was like, you know what, this isn't an environment for children. We really don't want you growing up with this violence and I'm happy to take you. And you know, that's fine.

And that's our best. She later said, any good in me comes from grandma. Wow. Yeah. So, they worked it out as a family where she was going to sleep at Grands house or they both were going to sleep at Grands house. But her dad really wanted to make sure that they spent days with their parents and they had meals with their parents. Okay. So it seemed like everybody was pretty cool with this. So who would this for? I get fucked up and start yelling at your mom. Let's have fish and chips for lunch.

I think that's what it was. I think it was like probably as it usually happens because I find out he went to pubs at night where he would get sourced and then come home and it was usually pandemonium. I know what that's like. That sounds like my entire childhood. I think it was like before he would go to the pub things were okay. The longhorn. He was kind of a tough guy but like I don't think it was that's bad during day. Well, some people are like so different. It's like, you can be this amazing person during the day. Yeah, amazing dad. And then at night you get sourced and you're different, dude. Well, Myra was a tough chick.

She was a tough chick her whole life. Sounds like she kind of had to be in the beginning, but definitely don't forget what she did. She was taught violence pretty early on, obviously. And her father encouraged his daughters to stand up for themselves. Which is good. But he encouraged it with violence.

Like you should punch people if they make you mad. You shouldn't do that. He was a championship boxer in the military and he literally took my route side in the backyard and taught her how to punch correctly. All right. Which is not like a total bad thing to teach your kid. Like how to defend themselves. But he encouraged like a total bad thing to teach your kid. Like, how do I defend themselves?

No, it's self-to-self. But like, he encouraged it to like solve problems and that's not good. It's not how we solve problems. So like when she was eight years old, a boy, you know, she was known like, you don't mess with Myra. Like, she'll fuck you up.

And when she's forever, when her whole life, literally, she will fuck you up forever. And when she was eight, a boy was like bullying her and he ended up reaching out and scratching her face. And she told her father this when she was eight, a boy was like bullying her and he ended up reaching out and scratching her face. And she told her father this when she went home. She was like, what the hell is this about? He scratched my face. And her father was like, go find that kid and punch him in the face.

And so she was like, all right, so she went and punched not this kid out. I can't argue that. As soon as you, if somebody else throws a punch, first punch have had it. I mean, he scratched you. Yeah, as far as I'm concerned. But here's the problem. So she went and punched this kid and she followed the whole movie. And she's like, dad, I did it. And he was like, I am so proud of you.

So she realized suddenly, she got this approval and he's given her a hug and being like, that's my girl. So now she's gonna be people up to get love and attention at home. So now she's learning that violence is gonna lead to approval, which may be later happened in her relationship. Not between the two of them. Yeah. But yeah. So Mira, we have to remember, is a lying sack of dog shit just to be clear. She said about a hundred different stories regarding the abuse she their sufferer didn't suffer when she was younger. She had various points of setter father only abused her a couple times that she was she was only hit when she was punished that he beat her

in her sister regularly that he would knock them unconscious for nothing at all. It's a big lead that he would abuse them so badly that they would almost die. Then she would say her mother sometimes abused them too, but then other times she would say she never even spanked us. She's a lying section. Sounds real confused. She manipulates to get whatever reaction she's looking for at that given time. That minute.

Yeah, that minute. You need me to say that he abused me so badly that I almost died Well, there it is. That's the story So we really don't know because what we do know is later in life he disowned her when he found out what she did So he was horrified. Wow. Well a good So she also said that every night her father like I said would go to the pub get drunk He would fight because he was a championship boxer so he had that in him and he was like I'm a fight pull it out when he would get mad at the pub and then he come home and fight with her mother and she said existence.

Yeah. And then she said sometimes Myra was sent back to the pub to gather his jacket that he would often take off when he would fight people at the bar. Yeah. And she said quote I never sought to blame him for anything I did when I was older. It devastated him that his daughter could possibly have done the things I did and he disowned me. But he was far from being a good role model.

Which of course. Not everybody has good role models. But to me, it's my role being like, no, I don't blame him, but look at listen what he did. But he did do this. So it's like you are trying to blame me. You're trying to subconsciously plant it and everyone's mind that it's probably his fault.

And it's like, you know what? Plenty of people have that growing up and they don't do the things like. It sounds like you did. And she wrote an article in The Guardian in 1995 about this stuff. And she said the violence she saw definitely made her learn about dominance and control,

which she later brought into her own relationship and her crimes. Either way, through all this, she did really well in school. She was happy in school. She was apparently like a brilliant writer. Okay. Apparently one of her essays was so good that they like displayed it in the school. How could she's good at lying in fantasy? Yeah, so she typically you can write about those things. Well, she also read a ton and her favorite book was The Secret Garden, which I was like, oh no, we've all read that. Thanks for ruining that.

That's a bummer. When she was a teenager, she and her girlfriend babysat a lot around town, which is horrifying to think about now. I know, thank you. She was known to be a great babysitter who was wonderful with kids. That's like Mary and Shore, she was a babysitter.

Yep, and she apparently loved kids when she was younger. Like so much happened, but took pride later in saying that she did not want to be a mother and she, that kid sucked when she got older. And it's fine if you don't want to be a mom, but kids don't suck. Well, and it's weird that you were like so into them and then you're just like, nah, completely were like nevermind. But when she was 15 years old, this was kind of like a big thing that happened in her life.

When she was 15 years old, she saw a 13 year old boy being bullied. And because she would stand up for herself, she felt it was, because again, at this point she loved kids. So at this point, when she would see a kid being bullied, she stood up for them. Like she was not a bully. She stood up to bully. So everybody was this so weird. Isn't it so weird? So she saw this 13 year old boy being bullied. She stands

up for him, fights the bully and is like, get the fuck out of here. Good. Eventually, these two her and the kid that was bullied become best friends. I love that. And his name was Michael Higgins and they were together all the time. And there were only two years apart so it wasn't crazy. But one day he asked her to hang out by this old like reservoir. Yeah. He used to hang out there a lot romance. And she had made another plan. So she was like, no, I can't come. Well later she heard all this commotion was happening by the reservoir. Oh no. She ran to the reservoir and she sees that they are pulling Michael Higgins out of the reservoir and he had drowned.

Oh, no. And so she feels extremely guilty for that because she said, till the end, if I was there, I could have helped him. Right. It's her vibersky. It is, it totally is. So she left school at 15 years old to start her life.

This wasn't uncommon at this point because you said it's like it's before the 60s. Yeah. So it this this was just you know she's a girl. She's so at this time of life. She's a girl. She's gonna leave school. She's gonna learn how to type. Yeah. She's gonna learn how to type. She's gonna marry a man and she's gonna pop out some kids. That's her life. Let's get it. So Maya at the time wanted that. She was ready for that. She was like, all right. That's her life. Let's get it. So Maya at the time wanted that. It was ready for that. She was like, all right, let's leave school. Let's start this whole Shabeng.

Go ahead and famed Emily. Well, she also got super into religion at this point, which L-O-L. Yeah, Maya being into religion. Like really, really. In 1958, she started taking classes in the Catholic faith at a monastery of St. Francis, I believe it's called.

She had her first communion that same year, so she was like really committed to it. Her family was super happy about this. They gave her this white prayer book that was inscribed and shit, and that was later taken into evidence when she abducted a murdered children with her shit head, existentialist, wannabe boyfriend. So they took in her prayer book as evidence against her? And we'll talk about. So then she starts, so she's super religious now. She's, she's dressing modestly.

She's got a set of morals for herself. She's half-addited. That she is not going to have premarital sex. She's a virgin at this point, so she's like, I am not, I'm saving myself for marriage. That's her thing. So she started working at a car sales place as like a temp clerk kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, who really gives a shit

what she was doing there? I literally couldn't go for a car sales. But everything was going fine. People there thought she was fine. Then one day she gets her paycheck and they used to give the paychecks and cash. Oh, she left. She left.

She left or bad. She left and she comes running back crying and saying she lost the envelope on the way home. I don't believe you. Well, all of her coworkers, they felt really bad for her. And they were like, oh, that's awful. You just lost like a whole week's of pay. Like, that sucks. So they all pulled their own money together to give her her paycheck,

this lying sack of shit, her money back. Yeah. So they're like, oh, that was really sad, poor her. And then a couple of weeks later, the exact same thing happened. Oh, isn't it so sad? How like some people, it's always them. Just accidents happen.

Yeah. So the coworkers didn't believe that shit. No, they were like, you got our money last week. As soon as it happened the first time, they were like, eh, no, that doesn shit. No, they were like you got our money last night. Yeah, as soon as it happened the first time They're like, no that doesn't happen. So they were like no, so they start being very weary of her because all of a sudden She's like trying to con the matter their own Pissons, she's like no, thank you Now this probably I mean helped her practice for conning the grieving mother of a child she tortured to death

Probably campaigning for her to stay in prison forever. So good for her, for, you know, practicing at a time. Connwoman of the century. Yeah. Practice your craft. Exactly. So then in her late teens, she suddenly decided, you know, I want to change again. I want to change my look. Oh, get a little bored in my look. She used to have dark hair. Like I said, she was ugliest and not cute. Nothing helped her. She was right till the end. Sorry. I know that she lightened her hair, but didn't do a lot for people. If anything, it just drew attention to that mug of hers. Sometimes it makes it worse. Kind of did. Leaching your hair is not always necessary. Yeah. Because that's this is what she did. She died her hair platinum blonde

for the first time. We're not all meant to be platinum, Mira. No, just me. She started wearing heavier makeup. She really went with eye makeup, like heavy lined eyes. Because again, this is like, you know, the 60s. Somebody on Twitter said that she looked like a drag queen. And I was like, how dare you drag drag queens like that?

I think my response was she wishes. Yeah, yeah, she does wish. Cause drag queens are way more beautiful. Yeah, no, this girl was not. But so she's wearing more makeup and, you know, she's wearing her hair in that big poofy buffons like 60s hairstyle, like the B-Hive. Yeah, and her sister Maureen,

who is the younger sister, remember, started doing the exact same thing. Cute. She didn't dye her hair blonde, she kept it dark, but she was doing the eye makeup. They look very similar in pictures. Just one is black hair, one is blonde hair. Sorry, Maureen. Which is sad, because she obviously looked up to her and they were so close. Yeah, that is sad.

She said that. I'd be like, if you just became a crazy murderer. Exactly. And you'd be like, that's what I'm about to be weird. I'd be like, who am I going to do this podcast? I'd be real weird. Well, she started getting a little attention from men. So she was like, because honestly, platinum blonde, sometimes it doesn't matter what's under it, it's just a platinum blonde.

A lot of people are very just immediately attracted to that hair color because it's like bold and, and whoa, you know, especially at that time, in the 60s, you're not seeing a ton of platinum blondes walking around, like, and whoa, you know, and especially at that time, in the six, you're not seeing a ton of platinum blondes walking around, like, peroxide blondes. So all of a sudden men are like, paying attention. And she's like, hey, oh, so she's liking this. She's like, I'm my rug. And your page, what's up on my rug?

I'm gonna murder people later. But she's now, remember, she's newly religious. So although she's liking this attention, she's still trying to be very modest and, she doesn't want it. Modest with her platinum blond hair. So she's trying to like liking this attention, she's still trying to be very modest and she doesn't modest with her platinum blood here. So she's trying to like get the attention, but she doesn't really want it. Like anybody else, I really get it.

But fun game, Ira. So when she was around 17 years old, she was reintroduced to a guy who she had gone to school with. She had known for most of her life, but she hadn't seen him in a while. Yeah. His name was Ronnie Sinclair, and they started dating, and everything was fine. She later described him as like boring and kind of reminding her of her father in the way that not in the abusive way.

Oh, it's going to say, but in the way that he was very working class. And like he always, she said he always had grease under his finger. How horrible. Yeah. Myron Ian have a very, such God complexes. Yeah. Like they both think that they are All everybody and she said you still grease under his fingernails and it reminded her of her father like this working God just means he's earning this paycheck, but he wasn't a bad guy

Well, he wasn't abusive. He wasn't he was just a nice guy. He just worked Exactly and they started dating and when she turned 18, he proposed. And she was very excited about this at first, like, super psyched. And the big deal. She told their parents and her dad was psyched, but her mom was like, I'm not psyched. And she was like, why? And she was like, this is your first boyfriend. Yeah, you to get out of this, you go first. You should in marriage.

You should in first boyfriend, which I'm like, good for Nelly, being like, you know, because you could have just saddled her down and been like this is your life now deal with it right but then you look back and you're like maybe you should have married Ronnie oh yeah because maybe I don't know would all this have happened if somebody didn't like go along with you to do it I don't know so she's not psyched about it so suddenly she's listed she's like all right mom whatever and then all of a sudden she's like you know know what, you're kind of right. And she starts seeing things that are annoying her about him and she's looking around saying, I don't want this life. I don't want to be saddled with anybody.

So this is already starting the wheels turning. Now, December 1960, she switched jobs. She's not at the car place anymore. She switched a couple of times to different jobs as like a typist. But she never really stuck any for wear long. I told you she had to learn how to type. She wasn't a typist. And she ended up getting a job as a typist slash secretary at Millwards merchandising. Okay, this is where she met Ian Brady. Ian Facebook Brady. She said it was love at first sight. Down it. Wasn't it not? Oh, I think it was love at first sight for her. Oh, no, she sang for her.

She rightly admits he did not pay attention to her at all. I love that. Now, she referred to it later as quote, an instant fatal attraction. Oh. And he was not interested in her at all at first. He completely ignored her and she was obsessed. And I feel like people like Myra too, like being ignored makes you want it even more.

Exactly. And I think it was also having to do with her newly blonde hair and the way she was doing all her stuff to like all the makeup and everything. That's smokey eye. She was getting a little attention so the fact that he wasn't part of that attention she was like, why isn't he turning and looking? I mean, kind of thing. I think that was what it was.

I think that has these abilities with my icy blonde hair. She's like, I have peroxide hair now. She's like, you know, how much my fucking scalp berm to do this? She's like, everyone loves peroxide hair. It's true. He actually says later, he did not like her peroxide hair. Oh, really?

Yeah. And I'll discuss it more later, but to me, he saw her as his equal later in their desire to cause chaos. And he saw her as someone who was as ruthless as he was, and someone who he could be very confident around because she worshipped him so much. Yeah. So it was never a matter of attraction physically. I think she was, she was very attracted to him, but I do not think he was attracted to her at any point. I just don't. All right. I mean, who knows? He's never, he's never said he was.

So he's very cold. That would make you believe that he was not. Yeah, I don't know. So Ian Brady, he's known as the most hated man in Britain. I guess they have good neck names. Yeah, they have good neck names. She's the most evil woman. He's the most hated man.

Oh, okay. He was born January 2nd, 1938. He's a Capricorn. He's the most hated man. Okay. He was born January 2nd 1938. He's a Capricorn. We love a Capricorn. She's the Leo and Casey were wondering. And he's a Capricorn and that makes me sad. He was born in Glasgow, Scotland. Okay. And his mother was 19 year old Maggie Peggy Stewart. And he was born in Rotten Row maternity hospital. That makes a lot of sense. Which I was like, wow, sorry if you were born there. That's, that's quite a name, I will say. He was actually initially named in Duncan Stewart, because her last name was Stewart. Okay. So, her, his father was not present. He possibly died

a few months before his birth. That's what he was told. That's what I found in a lot of sources. But then he later said that he didn't think he died and that he was led to believe that maybe he just left. Okay. But his mom didn't want him to know that. That's nice. His mom was a good mom. Oh, she struggled. But she was 19. She cared about him and tried to do the right thing with him. So what's her deal? So what's her deal? So she was a waitress at a tea room. She was 19 years old.

So she decided that she was trying, trying, trying to take care of him, but what was happening was she wanted to go back to work so she could make money to afford the room she was renting. And the child needed somebody to take care of him. She couldn't afford somebody to take care of him, so she could make money to afford the room she was renting. And the child, she needed somebody to take care of him. She couldn't afford somebody to take care of him so she couldn't get a job. She couldn't get the job because it was a cycle.

It was a cycle of things. So then she does kind of a strange thing. She puts up this like advertisement at a local, in like a shop window. And it says that she'll pay someone one pound a week to look after Ian while she worked. Okay. And you're inviting...

Literally anyone. Well, no, it was kind of an unofficial adoption, basically. She wanted to be able to see him and she wanted to stay in his life, but she needed someone that could essentially take care of him. Okay, so like not like watch him like... No, not like a babysitter. She was asking for someone to basically

to openly adopt you. And she wanted to be, but she wanted to be part of this. So an open adoption. Yeah, and so she saw this as the only way that he was gonna get like a real life. That's really sad. I mean, to make that decision.

Yeah, I feel bad. And so this woman named Mary Sloan and her husband John Sloan saw this and they were like we will take him Uh-huh. They had two daughters Jean and May and a son named Robert already Ian was like four months old by this point. Okay, so at least he's not like old enough to remember We know like and he was they were happy to take him they were known as a warm and loving family Good good. They were also not super they were pretty poor themselves But they took care of their kids.

Right. And that's all that really mattered. She was like, as long as you can feed him and house him and give a love. And love him, that's what I want. So he was told very early on that they were not his biological parents. Okay.

And he was fine. And he called them Ma and Da. Ma and Da. Like he was, yeah. So Scottish, I love it. And he said they were super nice to him, they loved him, they gave him everything he needed, he never felt neglected.

Yeah. But he said he inherently felt like kind of an outsider because he knew he wasn't one of the siblings. But he still was very close with all of them. That's understandable. But he was a good kid, he had a lot of friends, again, good home life. And he even says later that he was like,

I was pretty spoiled for them being like, as bad office they were financially. He's like, we lived in like a two bedroom house with like a bathroom outside. And he was like, but they literally spoiled me. Like I was the baby of the family. And his mother came all the time. She came every night and all weekend. Okay, so that's amazing.

Yeah, and so she would bring him gifts, she would bring him clothes, whatever she could afford to bring him, she would shower. So she cared about him. And these people were obviously great people to lie all the sad. They're essentially taking another person into their home. Exactly. And he eventually was told that this woman was his mother.

They were like, this is your real mother. He was happy about it. He was like, cool, so I get to hang with her. It's like a weird, almost like Ted Bundy S. It's very weird. Except she was like his aunt for a minute. And except they were so honest with him. Like, these are not your real parents.

Here's your mother. This is the situation. Right. He was like, cool. It was like Ted Bundy done right. Everyone was happy and harmonious. Everything was fine. He did great in school. He excelled in writing in

English just like, uh, Maira. Interesting. He says he didn't believe in God right from the jump. Okay. Immediately questioned religion and was an atheist. He was like right from the jump. In fact, he said at Sunday school, which they all went to, they would ask like, who believes in God? And he was angry. He was angry. He would immediately say it like he and he had right from the get go. No reason for it. He just said I just always felt that way. Are gonna get mad that I laughed at that. Oh whatever. Okay. I'm like atheist agnostic so I'm agnostic. I don't necessarily believe like God but I know like something's open. Yeah, something's going on and I don't know what but and everybody is intentional to their own. Yeah, I have first

I would never tell someone they can't believe in God or Jesus or whatever you want to believe in believe what you want to believe I believe in Santa for a long time. There you go So again, he was doing great. He ended up learning to play the piano. That's hard to play the piano. He loved classical music from a young age. He read, hey, I like classical music. I'm kidding. He read voraciously, which stuck with him for his whole life. He was a crazy reader. Yeah. And one big event in his early life that was pretty traumatizing,

kind of like Myra, was when he was playing a game with his friends called Catch the Hudgey. What is a Hudgey? Well, the game was that these kids would wait for a passing van or like a trucker. I already hate this. They would jump onto the back of it and hold on to whatever they could hold on to

on the back of it. And then they would just hold on as long as they could and jump off. That sounds so early 60s. Yes. Like late 70s. This was actually like 50s. Oh good, there it is. So it sounds old.

It does. Well, one day they were playing this and a boy jumped on, but he slipped off prematurely, rolled under the wheels of a truck that was behind the van. And Ian said he didn't see anything, but a brown child shoe filled to the brim with blood in the middle of the road. Oh. So that's kind of traumatizing, I'd say? That will change you. Yeah, that's no good. And at one point, his birth mother, Maggie, met a man who wanted to move to Australia.

So Maggie left? No. Ian said, so he was like, she was like, Ian, I'd like you to come with us. And he was like, no, I don't want to leave the Sloans. Like, these are my family and my friends are here. So his mother refused to leave him and just left the man. Wow, which I was like, Maggie. If that had only happened to me,

Maggie. Shit, right? Shit. Like, that's, that's good momming. That is good momming. I good for Maggie. You don't just take your kid to Australia. Cause I feel for Maggie. I do too. I do she tried her best with him She absolutely she couldn't do anything. He was who he was

But then that's the oldie shit the at the end of the she gets mega screwed over she does she should have gone to Australia She should have just went to Australia because what it mattered anyway, nope but then his mother met a man named Patrick Brady. And they decided to move to Manchester, England. So away from Glasgow. I was like, wait, they're already in the middle of the island. I was like, yeah.

This made it difficult for Maggie and Ian to see each other all the time. So the visits are starting to dwindle. They are keeping in touch, but he starts rebelling a little bit and acting out bit and he's like a teen almost. He's like a young kid. He's like a young teen, I'd say. So this started to bother him a little bit. Yeah. But it didn't become like a big thing. He doesn't talk about it. He was like, we saw each other sometimes, or like talked, you know, like it was fine. And he ends up really liking Patrick Brady.

Cool. He gets along very well. He becomes Ian Brady exactly. He ends up really liking Patrick Brady. They like it along very well. But he becomes Ian Brady exactly. This is when he begins, everybody said that they noticed he was bringing like a little like flip knife over around with him all the time, which is not like out of the ordinary, especially boys and boys fucking love knives.

Well, then he started becoming a bully and he was starting to become like a real alpha and he was making kids fight each other. He was getting into fights. He had, in any start, it hanging out with trouble makers and these trouble makers were at his back in call kind of thing. Like it was started,

and that actually stayed throughout his life. As soon as we get into like making other people fight, that's just bizarre and yucky. Yeah, and he, this is something that was his whole life. He was, he was a bully his whole life. He was kind of an alpha. His whole life.

He had like a pack of followers. And he always had someone who could do shit for him or with him. Like, Maira. Yeah. So there is a rumor. There's a lot of rumors that come with Ian in particular. Maira doesn't get as many like rumors

about her upbringing as he does. So a lot of times people want to find a reason. Right. So people will associate things with people that to find a reason. Right. So people will associate things with people that just aren't true. Right. One of the things, the one of the stories that gets told is that one day, he tied this kid to a pole and got some newspaper, put it around the pole, wrapped him in it, and he tells

all his friends who are there, I'm going to light him on fire and watch him burn to death. Oh. And the other kids are like, huh, what? Like, they're like, excuse me. Oh, what? And then he lights a match and throws it on the newspaper. Now this isn't true. The kids freaked out.

They got the kid untied. They saved him. Ian was pissed that they let him go. And the only kid, but the problem is the only kid who is saying this is the kid who was tied to the pole. He's the only one that tells saying this is the kid who was tied to the pole. He's the only one that tells this story. Well, yeah, all the other kids don't say.

Because they didn't want to go against me. And he and though, now, well, he, or now he's dead. But when he was, when he was, yeah. He would, he would, he would denied this. He was like, that never happened. He's like, what this kid is thinking of? Was role play, we would always play like war games and like fucked up games

when we were little. We were fucked up kids. Like that's what happened. Yeah. We were like jumping on cars and holding on. Like we did weird shit. Right. And he was like we would pretend to be like war criminals

and like hold people. And he's like I never lit anyone on fire. I never tried to. And then he admitted all the horrible things. Well, that's he admits to raping raping torturing and murdering children with Like no hesitation at all. Yeah, I did that like there's really no reason to deny that and he says it He's like I think people just are looking for little like signs and he's like there really wasn't I was just a shithead Like that's just that's weird and it's like I don't know what to believe with that the only I mean

I want to believe the kid who said it happened. I was kind of sad. Yeah. Yeah, that's just that's like I don't know what to believe with that. I mean, I mean, I want to believe the kid who said it happened. I was kind of sad. Yeah. That's what I'll do. You know, guys, that's what I'm going to do. You heard it here first. I'm going to believe the kid that was tied to the pole. That's typically what you want.

You do whatever you want. Not the guy sitting in the jail cell. Yeah, exactly. And so in 1946, when he, again, when he was like eight or nine years old, the Sloan's took him and his siblings on vacation to lock a moment. He said that this was the first time because he had lived in like cities, in like small like slummy kind of cities too. And he, this was the first time he'd seen wide open spaces, which anybody who's like never been around wide open spaces can it overwhelming.

Like the first time you are, you just start like, it's like the first time wide open spaces can it. It's overwhelming. Like the first time you are, you just start like, it's like the first time we went to the Berkshire's. I was like, yeah. It just blows your mind. So like it's just something different that you've never seen. So he says, quote, I was shattered by the sense of vastness. This new sense of reality and freedom was intoxicating.

I was encountering the naked essence of life itself. This was the Earth in cinemascope. That's exactly what I thought the first time you went into the first year. That's exactly what one did your breath. The Earth in cinemascope. The Earth in cinemascope. No, I was just like, whoa, that's big.

Well, and the reason I say this is because this was his first time where he was like, wow, like the beauty of wide open spaces. And later he would use Saddleworth more as this awful nightmare place, but he spent so much time on it and it became such a giant fixture in his life and that it became something he loved. So this was the first time he was exposed to that.

And I think it's important. Now I just keep thinking into the great wide open. There you go. I don't want to be thinking about Tom Patti Wong. No, you just keep thinking into the great wide open. There you go. I don't want to be thinking about Tom Patti Wong. No, you don't. You really don't. So his first girlfriend was like 11.

He was like 11 years old. I know, I said that weird. She was like 11 years old. You know what? What? Would it be shocking? No. No, he was like 11 years old when he was first girlfriend.

I shouldn't say it like that. So it's okay. And early on, he, this is just a very interesting thing that comes up a little later. He discovered very early on that when he kissed someone, he liked to kiss them violently. He described it as violently. Which to me, I was like, oh, that overlapped me.

I had a very visil reaction to reading that. I was like, no. That makes me feel, yeah. And then I was like, what does that mean? Did he just like grab their heads? He said he liked like when your teeth knocked together. And he said he liked when blood would flow into your mouth and mix with the other person's blood. That's never happened in my experience

of making out with anyone. He liked to draw blood when he kissed people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, yeah, that's not weird at all. It's like no, Ian, that's weird. So in 1950, that's when his mother married Patrick Brady. Uh-huh.

And Ian took his last name. Now Ian starts at this point committing, so he's like an early preteen. He's committing break ins. And he meets, he now has a gang. He had a life trouble makers. And they're breaking into houses, they're stealing shit. He says sometimes they would just go in

for the thrill of it and wouldn't steal anything. Okay. But it became a lifelong thing where he would steal and burglarize. He began dating a girl. I'm not gonna name her because I can't really find because of that poor, poor girl. Yeah. And I don't really know if it's her actual name that people are using. So I'm not going to say it. We're going to call her Emma. I like that. So she started dating a girl named Emma for a while. He was obsessed with her and he was obsessed with eyes. He had a

thing with women's eyes. He would have loved you. I know. Angel. Oh, shit. It gets even better, ready? No. He was obsessed with almond-shaped eyes. Girl. Run.

And you have like fucking orange eyes, which is the weirdest. I have a little scary. So he was, and he said that over and over again, that eyes, almond-shaped eyes were like his thing, and he was always very... I can't picture my resides. My red that eyes, almond-shaped eyes were like his thing, and he was always very... I can't picture my resides. My red does not have almond-shaped eyes. She has big eyes.

So he's like fuck her. And he did say that her eyes were the one thing he found. She does her giant eyes. Yeah, that I'm picturing. And he did mention that her eyes were the thing that like he actually was like, I can't pass the rest of her. It was like I can pretend the rest of it is just look at the eyes.

Look at the eyes. But he's not her cheese health. These two Emma and him dated like on and off throughout their lives kind of like they were like passing by And it was the one that got away. I think she was and like they were always dating other people and kind of like Fucking around on each other and then they would just come back together and then break up again It was just one of those things But one quote he had about her. I was like, yeah, that shows you exactly who he is as a person. Oh no. He said quote, her ears were shell-like. Small and pink. My only interest in them was that I wanted to bite them. Okay.

That's me. And he told me today that I had small ears. Maybe she wanted to bite them. Did you want to bite my ears? No. Hell no. So when he was 15 years old, he also left school. Because again, that's kind of like the age of that point. Yeah. You know, when you just leave school. That's the age when you just dip out of school. I tried.

So people are your dish. You gave it a value in that first thing. Yeah, I barely went. Yeah. So people say this is another thing. People say he became obsessed with Nazis and shit. Oh, fuck. But in his own words, he was fascinated by Nazis

and he was fascinated by Hitler and the whole thing. Again, it is fascinating. It is fascinating. World War had just occurred. And he said, but I was more fascinated. I was fascinated as much as anyone else was. Yeah. And he said he wasn't obsessed.

He really didn't seek out a ton of information. He would read a book here and there. But he was like, the whole thing started after they were arrested for the Moors murders because it kind of helped people validate their own feelings of being like tied up with some ideology, like Nazism, right? Right, right.

So he basically thinks people who are obsessed with Nazis and Hitler also want to bring him into that and just be like, look at these people. You are in your court, you know what I mean? But other sources I've read contradict that. And they say, no, he was. He would read, you know, mine comp,

and he would read a lot of like German stuff. And he always wanted to be the German Nazi soldier when they played war games, and he would do Nazi salutes. And like, he was, he won't, at one point I read that he collected Nazi memorabilia. And but he himself, but again, he's an unreliable source because he's a bullshinner. Right. So he himself says he wasn't more into it than anyone else, but take from that what you will.

Yeah, because we'll never know. It is weird that he, like we said earlier, will admit to torturing and murdering children, but not what happened before that. But then later, we're going to see soon that little bits of this Nazi stuff do creep in. Well, and I think he was a little fascinated by it, more fascinated than most. And I think it's almost kind of a scare tactic for him to be like, no, I'm just like this. Yeah, there was no lead up to it. Not been brought in no signs, no one I know. So I think maybe he probably, he probably was.

I bet he was, I would say he's probably more fascinated than most of us. Yes. And maybe brought it into a weird place. Because I'm actually not fascinated. Yes. I don't want to know anything about it. But like, so you know, history is history.

Historians are, you know, I mean, I think he was definitely out of different levels. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Now he and his gang of thieves got caught. And they got caught 15 because someone snitched, which is bad. So he found out who this guy was. And he tied him to a tree in litem on fire. No. And waited 10 years for his revenge. Well, that's just fucked up. He said, quote, I found his address and went up the stairs of his block 10 years later in order to knock on the door and shoot him in the head.

As I approached this door, a woman came out of another door on the same landing to beat a carpet on the stair rail. I remember she was using a clover-shaped beating stick. I had to turn away and walk down the stairs on such little things, people's lives depend. What the fuck? Like, holy shit. Damn. Like, he's just like weird. We got me in trouble when I was 15, so I'm gonna shoot you, but this lady with her clover beaten stick saved yoass. Yeah, and then he's just like, huh, such weird things.

Funny, life is so funny. Like, fucking, Ian's such a dick. Like, he's just, when you hear him talk, you're just like, oh, God. I also, I get like Ed Kemper vibes where he just fucking loves to talk about himself. He definitely has Ed Kemper vibes in the sense that he likes to talk about himself, but Ian Brady unfortunately was highly intelligent.

Like, Ed Kemper is too, though. He was too, but on like a different way, I don't know how to explain it. It's like, yeah, I get what you're saying. He's like very far up the scale, unfortunately. It's not a good thing. But he also discovered around this time that he was bisexual.

Cool. And it turns out that Miro was also bisexual. Okay. And this might have been something else that like, you know, they had in common. Yeah. Because again, at the time, it's not like everyone was running around

being like, oh my. Right. And so I think that it was even a word for it at that point. I don't even know. So I think them having that in common at that point also drew them together once they discovered it. They had some stuff in common. Yeah.

So the gang, the, you know, the gang of thieves that he ran around with, they got caught several times. And Ian had a few probations, like a few times where he had to serve probation. But that comes back for him later as well. That's good. One, I think the last thing that people usually get wrong about Ian and this one, they actually do get wrong

because it's proven. He denies harming any animal. And I know this is like a thing because when I read it I was like, oh good for you. Like you murdered children. Exactly. But okay, glad you didn't hurt a squirrel. But a lot of people will say these whole things of how he was murdering. He was killing animals and skinning them.

Because it's a sign again. Because it's one of those things that you just expect to be sure. In Markov a murderer. Like a Jeffrey Dahmer, you know what I mean? Yeah. So he's adamant that the rumors about him harming animals went are completely untrue. And he has had, so when he was younger in living with the Sloans,

he had three rabbits, a big gray called Jenny, a black one named Harry, and a small one named Smoky. He had a black and silver German shepherd called Una, and a Cocker Spaniel named Sheila, and everyone who knew him said that when Sheila died, he was inconsolable. That's like, um, was it Israel keys who was super attached to his animals? Yeah, it's a weird thing. And he wouldn't go to a house with an animal. Yeah, yeah. He and Myra later go to a house with an animal. Yeah. Yeah.

He and Myra later, because Myra also loved animals. Weird. And him and Myra later got a dog and named it Puppet. And they loved that dog. They treated that dog very well. And you can see that pup in some of the happy photos they took together on Saddleworth Moors, the ones that they took after they would bury a victim there,

and they would mark the graves with a happy smiling photo of Myra holding the dog. I didn't know that was in the graves. Yeah. That's how they, and we'll talk about it later, but on like the second part, that's actually where they found a lot of the victims graves was by those photos. Wow. Yeah. So the day in the Daily Mail, they had an article about this. And they said that a lot of sources will claim things like he imprisoned cats. He crucified frogs.

He would slice up caterpillars. He would behead rabbits and put their heads on a pike. And that later he got a job at a slaughterhouse. And that's where he really got a taste for blood and gourd. No, that was just the making out. That's all, exactly. That's all untrue. He never worked in a slaughterhouse. He was a butcher delivery kid once. So he lived at the story wrong. But he never worked in a slaughterhouse. And he cried when his dog died.

And also when he was younger, he remembers this very vivid thing of seeing a horse being injured and seeing the horse being put down and it like destroyed him. In fact, the way he describes it is this. He said, and the reason I'm saying this is because you're going to see how he goes very deep into how the emotions of this horse were the thing that like seeing the terror in his eyes like bothered him. So he can I I don't like emotions, but you saw terror and children's eyes and you like what it's on a different way

It's like very strange. It's like such a dichotomy of he has two very weird compartmentalized versions of his Capricorn. I know I don't know so he said "...it lay there with its massive sides heaving, and its breath steaming the frosty air, I was near enough to touch the large head. I can still see the great liquid eyes rolling in terror, looking up in the gray Glasgow morning sky. It's great FedEx raised, or excuse me, yet, raked to the air, berraggled and wet. A man appeared from nowhere to erect a canvas green around the Clyde still. They were going to kill the horse, even I knew it. My chest was bursting and I began to cry. I fought my way through the massive bodies and ran to Camden Street, trying to hold

on to the bag of hot rolls with my hands clapped over my ears. I sat on the tenement stairs until the tears dried up, before taking the rolls to ma. I was afraid to wander near the spot where the horse had died. I couldn't bear to see the remains of blood stains and hairs. I couldn't rid the event and scene from my mind." And then he said, many years later, I saw something in a dark railway arch that triggered the image of that Clyde stale, suddenly changing my relaxed mood to one of ice-cold fury and leading to a frenzied knife attack on a man in the street. I didn't hang around to check whether it was fatal. It was enough for me to feel that the Clydesdale had

been avenged. So he just knife-demand to feel better because he had a case of the SADs from seeing an injured horse when he was little. What? No, sir. That is not how that works. No, that's not how we processed trauma. I saw a cat run over by a car on Halloween night when I was like 12. That's horrible. I didn't knife anyone because of it.

I don't feel I need to avenge that cat. I feel bad about it, but like I'm not going to go avenge somebody. No. Like that's fucked. And it just shows, like how can he feel that way about an animal? That's the weirdest thing to me, because like, what? Yeah. Well, either way, the way he says it is,

I could never have brought myself to kill sheep or cattle. But the idea of killing people never bothered me in the least. Obviously. Which to me, the one thing I can say is it seems to me like he started realizing that he just liked animals more than people. I mean, people do actually. Yeah, and he just kind of was like,

this is I enjoy, which I mean, I enjoy animals more than a lot of people, same, not to that extent though. I like my cats a lot better than I like anybody else. And to prove his commitment to animals, the proceeds from his autobiography entitled Black Light. By the way, he wrote an autobiography. So, he had it split between four pet charities.

He really should have given it to the victims' families. Well, I'm like, why are you such a shit person? Isn't that a thing now? If you write a book from jail, it goes to the victims' families for the law, but back then it was not. So you think that you know your dog best, huh? Yeah, I do. Well, what genetic risk factors affect their breed? I don't know. What does your dog's grandma look like?

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Great. Yeah. So he bounced around from job to job a bit. He's like, here's your state. Yeah, new valuables. He's like, just want to check around real quick. He ended up getting an apprentice job at a shipyard. And he was just doing like loading things

and working in the market there. And in 1953, at 15 years old, he got caught again for burglarizing. And this time, he was charged with nine counts of burglary. To him. He ended up going on probation again. And, but this time time they were like, the Sloan family, his family,

was sure by this point they were like, he's gonna go to prison. Because they were like, it's caught up to him. Yeah, they were like, I don't think, because he was initially given probation, but then he had to appear again for a couple more counts. When he kept breaking probation. And they were like, I'm pretty sure

they're gonna give him jail time now. Like, I don't think he's gonna get out of this. But the judge was like, no, no, no, it's fine. We'll just deport you from Scotland. But that's where he was from, right? Yeah. Where were they gonna deport him to? Anywhere but Scotland.

Which is a bummer for him because he loves Scotland. Yeah, but this is birthplace. Yeah, it's where he lives. So they were like, alright, you can leave now. So he was like, cool. Where do you go? I guess I'll go live with Maggie, my birth mother, in Manchester,

because she's living in Manchester with Patrick Brady. All right. My stepfather, so glory man United. He was very, he was devastated to leave the Sloan family, but he was like, you know,

what, it'll be nice to live with my birth mother. And he literally had no other choice. So he was like, and I have to. So, and also gotta go. Can't feel anything about this because it just happened. He was like,, and I have to. And also gotta go. Can't feel anything about this because it just after he was like, I don't want to go. But I gotta go. Well eventually he fell in with some friends there once he moved. Like he was pretty quick that he felt pretty comfortable. You know, he was just drinking at pubs and chasing girls. He was just like being a being a person and doing. He can do a betty theft.

He got like his own little gang again. It was like everything was fine. He actually got a nickname, Mac the Knife. That's, I don't like that one. They originally called him Mac. But then they changed it to Mac the Knife. And accordingly, he only liked to be called Mac. He did not like Mac the Knife.

Because it's stupid. But not because it's stupid. It was because he didn't like people knowing he carried a knife all the time, because he was very obsessed with surprising his enemies. Oh, good. So he didn't like that. That it gave them like a heads-up that he had a knife. Ooh, did you hear that thunder?

That was crazy thunder. It's bugsy from below deck. I don't know what that is. It's okay. Okay. So he grew very close to his stepfather, it's a Patrick Brady. The neighbors around them said they seemed, they all seemed very happy together living there. Yeah. That Ian was always very respectful of his stepfather and his mom. But some other neighbors were like, yeah, he was pretty

quiet and like fine and respectful. But sometimes he would make some like racist remarks. Oh, so it's like oh, no, well And you said like the Nazi yeah, so to me that's like for proof ready kind of had that ideology So this is around this time is when he started buying cameras and he became very obsessed with filming things Which obviously comes back later 22 tendencies of a sokyo path I just said he was a sokyoath. He was a sokyopath. He was a different kind of path. He was a sokyopath. Actually, it's also a homosexual status. Yeah, there you go.

Well, yeah, he was that. So, well, while it worked one day, this was a big thing. This truck driver or a lorry driver pulled up and asked Ian, you know, will you let, will you see it? It's contagious. It's hard. It's hard to talk. So, he said, will you load the sack of lead seals? It was like this equipment. He said, they've been discarded on the docks. And he was like, will you load these into my truck?

Because I'm going to take them. And apparently it was pretty common for truck drivers to do this and like make some extra money. And Ian just didn't think about it, because he was just working as an apprentice and when a truck driver asked him to do something, he did it. It was his job. So he loaded the stuff and just went about his business.

Well, it turned out that the Lori driver was selling it and he got caught. The person who bought it from him was like, wait, this is stolen. And he called the police and the Lori driver was like, Ian did it, like basically implicate the team. Like put past the bus. Yeah, so suddenly Ian's in trouble. We got him nowhere.

That's so. And detectives detained him, they questioned him, but he was like, so he just told them everything because he was like, I figured if anything, I'd get a fine because I didn't mean to do it. Right. And he was like, and it really wasn't that big of a deal. Anyways, but he was like, so I was honest with them.

I told them everything. Well, he was pissed because they put him in front of a judge the next morning. And the judge was like, yeah, you're going to wait three months in jail because you pled guilty to this. And the next time we're going to do these trials for this, is three months.

So he was like, are you fucking kidding me? That sucks. So during this time is when he read the book, Crime and Punishment by Dust, Dust, Tobsky, Dust, Tobsky. Dust, Tobsky. Dust, Tobsky, there you go. I can never say it. I'm good at German.

Well done. I had an Oma once. Oh, there you go. Dust, Tobsky. Is that German or Russian? I don't know. I think it might be Russian. I don't know, Mom.

That's all I know. Either way, you did a great thing. I appreciate it. And this is when he starts like reading books on like nihilism and existentialism. And he really considered himself an existentialist. So he believed that, you know, everything is entirely up to him as an individual. He could live in whatever manner he chooses. No, wrong. He could have his own moral code. No, that's not work like that. And again, he was also a nih. No. And he could have his own moral code. No. That's not work like that. And again, he was also a nihilist. So he thought that life was

there was really no meaning to life. Maybe there's not. Maybe. Maybe you can have that. Yeah. And he said, you know, the universe has no purpose. There's no one dictating this. There's no fate. And that religions just just really a delusion that people have and that he was the only one who understood this. It's like a little bit sad. It's very sad. Yeah, it's a little too bleak for me.

He was very bleak, that is for sure. And after three months, he went back in front of the judge and they gave him two years. And they sentenced him to do these two years at a training camp called a Borestall which was apparently for people under I think the age of 23 and it ended up being like a military kind of training. He was transferred to Hatfield Borestall which was a military training camp and this was

specifically for one one for men or young men, really, boys and men, that they didn't really have a crazy criminal record, and also they were above high intelligence. So this was for like those people. So he became cadet Kelly. Exactly. Exactly. But after being given a psychological exam, they deemed him unfit for military service. Makes a lot of sense.

Which is like good on them. So he was transferred out of there because he got drunk on prison booze one night and attacked a warden. So they transferred him to a very harsh borstal, which was located in Hall, prison. And this is where he spent a ton of time learning to brew his own alcohol.

He became an alcoholic then. He became very hardened. He started making lots of contacts with people on the inside that later he could use for my bad shit. And he learned accounting because they realized that he had to get- He also learned how to balance the books. He also was crunching numbers.

He was into assets and the other thing. You know debts. And debts. No, they just discovered that like he was a really smart guy. He was very talented in numbers. So they were like, you know what, you can do the bookkeeping. Cool. And he learned it. I don't know if it helped him later. It's a very valuable thing to have on your list of things you can do. I wish I was that good with numbers, but he was released at 19 years old. He went back to Glasgow at this point. And he was eventually just trying out more jobs,

you know, going with his probation. But this is when he bowed revenge, because he was pissed that he had been put in prison. I was gonna ask for one telling the truth and two for something he was like, I was just trying to help the struck driver out and then he turned on me. He was like, he really wanted to find the truck driver,

but he didn't. I was a president and show up on his door, turned your slater. And then he turned on me. He really wanted to find the director, everybody didn't. I was a president and show up on his door, turned your sleeve. Well, then he said, quote, if they wanted me to be a criminal, then I thought to myself, I'll be a proper one. And that's like so teenager. I know.

If you think I am, then I can't be it. Oh my God. Well, and he claimed that he stabbed a guy during this time and he said about it, he was like, I don't know if he died or not. And then they were like, why'd you do that? And he said, quote, there was a reason. I felt justified at the time.

Okay. Okay then. No further questions. Mr. Brady. What else are you gonna ask? All right. So his probation officer was like, you need to get a real job.

You need to get a career. You gotta stop stabbing people. You just can see feel like it. Stop knifeing. Listen, Mac the knife. Drop the knife. Yeah, like chill out. And he was 21 years old at this point in 1959

and he was like fine. So he was like, I'll get an office job. Okay, like I'll really balance the book. And he said quote, if I hadn't been so forced, I wouldn't have ended up with myrahindli as my typist and been brought down by existential folly. Before that, all my objectives were mercenary, which means like, you know, motivated by money. He was like, but you know, then all of a sudden I had a higher purpose. Oh yeah. So at this point, he had

also really come into like personal style at this point. Like pictures you see of him, he's always wearing like a three-piece suit. He's pretty stylish. Like, well, it's weird. Like, he just like was, that's, I don't know. He's jazzy. Does it fit with his personality maybe? I don't know. His hair is also always like slick. Oh we had a very like that um what's it called? Bufon? Is it a Bufon? No. No. No. Pout of Bufon. Pout of Bufon. I almost just said Pout of Bufre. Pout of Bufon. He had a Pout of Bufre. Like okay. He had a ballet move. What? We're nearing the end and it's very hot, the audience. And I was just, I was like, people are screaming at the,

like, stereo that they're listening to. Yeah, a pump of door. I know, I'm a fucking hairstylist too. Yeah, he had a pump of door. And like, he just, like, he loved the three-piece suits. He always got them tailored perfectly. He was just very meticulous that way. The reason I say this is because, like,

Myra tried to kind of match that style later. And to be honest, they were a very nicely dressed couple between the two. They loved Banana Repo. They were real high-class. They were real high-class. Real high-class. So this is when he started working at Mill Words merchandising

with Myra. I keep saying moira. Because of shits Creek. This was February 16th 1959. So initially, like I said, not endure. I didn't even remember her really when they first met. He said quote and I quote, oh god. This is so much a dick he was. Like he knew how obsessed he was with him. He could at least bullshit later. Then be like, yeah, no, Elena life doesn't matter. So he said, quote, she was simply the new typist as far as I was concerned.

I paid no more attention to her than I did the rest of the females on the staff. That is to say very little. I can't recall having any memorable conversations with her. It was just standard routine office dialogue. I didn't go for her peroxide hairstyle. Like what a dick cut and dry. What a straight up dick. So at this point, she saw Ian, she wanted to. She's like, immediately like my peroxide hair. You like it. You do. So she ended up breaking off her engagement to Ronnie. Right. He was devastated. He obviously tried to get her back. He would

like call her all the time. It's okay. You won. You did. You really did. So she also started writing constantly in a journal that she kept at work and locked in her drawer. That's a weird pleasure. The first entry in the journal. Ian looked at me today. She's the up. No joke. I'm just gonna give you a couple of other entries because they are what? Like Yikes. Ian looked at me today. That's enough to journal about July 23rd, 1961. Wonder if Ian is courting, still feel the same.

Okay. July 25th, haven't spoken to him yet. July 27th, spoke to him. He smiles as though embarrassed. I'm going to change. You'll notice that in the way I write. I'm going to change. Like I'm going to change myself. Like you're going to notice it. August 14th. I love Ian all over again. He has a cold and I would love to mother him. Ew, ew. No.

August 24th. I'm in a bad mood because he hasn't spoken to me today. Man. August 29th. I hope in a bad mood because he hasn't spoken to me today. Man. August 29th. I hope he loves me and will marry me someday. Wow, that escalated quickly. Yeah. My role is in trouble because a psychiatrist of Brady

said about him, quote, Brady is intelligent, tall, charismatic, engaging, interesting to talk to, widely knowledgeable about certain areas of life, and extremely self-controlled. I like that she threw tall into it. Yeah. He is able to dangle you on a string if he knows that you want to know something about him

and he doesn't want you to know. If he doesn't want it, you won't learn what it is you want to know. He sounds like the best time ever. He sounds scary. Sounds like a lot of access. In that Guardian article, I mentioned that my erote in December 1995, she said, quote, for almost a year during which I broke off my engagement, he took virtually no notice of me. I was a year of emotional torture, which I'd never experienced before.

I went from loving him to hating him and loving and hating him at the same time. When he smiled or was even a little nice to me, I felt blessed and floated on air. She also explains how she obsessively stalked him outside of work, hoping to see him in bars near his home, and then walking her baby cousin in a stroller by his house, the address of which she overheard him saying on a work call. Oh, yeah. Ships. Eventually, all this commitment that she had paid off for. I mean, work hard for what you get. Because she was also a voracious reader.

And she would read at work on lunch break and he would too. So they had that in common. So one day he came up to where I was like, what you read in. And they started talking about books. And that was how the conversation began. Then in 1961, their office had their Christmas party and it was after this party that he asked for their first date. So they met at the three arrows pub, they saw a movie afterwards and after the movie they got another drink and then walked back to Myrice. I'm confused about why he even wanted

to like hang out with her though if he didn't think of her much. Well, I think it was because first of all like he could see that she was also into like reading. Yeah. And then they were interested in the same books like she was like, oh, I want to read that. And she was like, oh, I want to read that. So I think he was starting to see like maybe she'll think like I do. Okay. So he also just wanted to give it a shot. So they went back to Myra's and he's walking her there.

And they start like making out on the street and he draws blood. He's been her lip the first time they kissed. He also said because they were like because again he's a very violent kisser and she so loves him. He felt that she was wearing a girdle under her clothes and he told her I don't like girdles they accumulate stale sweat and he told her, I don't like girdles, they accumulate stale sweat. And she never wore a girdle again. He's not wrong. But I was like, wow, sir.

I would have been like, all right. Never. I was like, this is our first date. I assaulted me. And you insulted me. I'm not into it. So they went out again the next day, which was Christmas Eve.

They went to a church service, which he was not psyched about. I know. When they left, he actually peed on the side of the church and said, this is what I think about religion. They then went to my house and fucked by the fire. All right. And that's when my or lost her virginity.

So she didn't remember she was saving her marriage, but then Ian came santaing and right after church, right after he defecated. Well, he didn't defecate. But right after he assaulted your church. And then he met her father and mother. Her mother was nodded to him because her mother said, no, and her mother said, he's like your father.

Oh, like she was like, good, good try with that. And then the father liked him a lot. Because he was like, you're like, what up? And she wrote in her diary, quote, Ian is so gentle, he makes me want to cry. Yeah. That's what she wrote about him meeting her dad, to which I say yikes.

Yeah. Wolf. Now, he had a motorbike that he had gotten recently and he would just randomly stop by her place without announcing. Vroom, vroom, my God. And she stopped going out with friends or going anywhere, just on the chance that he would stop by. So you can already see this is becoming a very sad.

A very like... It's not even like you need to be home. She was like, I must be home. I will be home. I must see his three-piece suit and perfectly clothed pompadour. So you can already see how the power dynamic is in this relationship?

Yes. To further show how different they viewed their relationship. In 1962, she wrote in her diary, I've been at Milworth's for 12 months and only had just gone out with him. I hope Ian and I love each other all of our lives and get married and are happily ever after. Yeah, good luck with that sister. And of this time, Ian says,

quote, I behaved just though nothing had occurred between us. This was a difficult, for my point of view, nothing had. My wish had accept that face or find some loser in pastor's new. She could do whatever she wanted. I intended to. Oh, so many. What a dick! That sounds like every dude I've ever dated. Well, every dude, like what a dick.

So either way, they hung out a ton. They started hanging out on Saddleworth more. And this was a place they would go to walk. And after spending a lot of time exploring there and hanging out, Ian admitted that they did grow close. They grew virtually living together at one point. Eventually, I let her shoot her shot. She was fine.

He felt like he could speak freely around her. And like I said, it seemed like a soulmate kind of thing and not a sexual attraction thing At least on his side It seemed like they even just liked that he they understood each other Okay, so they had a lot of discussions about creating their own lives and how lives was their lives were what they make them They didn't want to be hammered in a marriage. They didn't want kids. They said life's what you make it So let's make it wrong exactly

Exactly what she said. She said that's from Hannah Montana. That's why I didn't know that. So she was like, he was like a cult leader with her. Yes. To the point where she would just be entranced by him. But he didn't even have to do, like he wasn't even trying to be like that.

He wasn't manipulative with her. She was just entranced by him. Like anything he said, she was like, yes. And with those like, uh, it's really just very, totally, it's in her eyes. He later said, quote, when we were together, there was a third entity, something intangible that possessed a power beyond both of us.

We were both conscious of the joint momentum developing into an evocative, an evocative united force. So he's saying, Paul, did two of us together were a fucking force and we could feel it coming. an evocative united force. So he's saying, Paul, did you with us together were a fucking force and we could feel it coming? Like, I feel like they're giving themselves a little too much credit.

I feel like they both just wanted to kill people. They definitely are good. I don't think there was like a black error around them. About Ian Brady, is he thinks he is so much more than he actually, all that in the bag of chips. He thinks he's Hannibal actor. Like he needs to calm down. Right.

So she said, quote, within months, he had convinced me that there was no God at all. He could have told me that the earth was flat. The moon was made of green cheese. And that the sun rose in the west. And I would have believed him. He became my God, my idol, my object of worship. And I worshiped him blindly.

I just couldn't say no to him. She's they ended up having nicknames for each other. She called him Nettie because it was after like the show They loved the goon show that was a character on there. There are a couple of goons, you know, and he called her kiddo That makes that makes sense because it's so patronizing Yeah, and they also had a secret code where if they would raise their eyebrows twice, it was called a groucho and it meant follow my eye line. So it was like for them to be like, I'm looking at something over here, look at it with me. And then they would say, they'd use that that. Well, and then because both of them were bisexual and very like open with their sexuality, they would say DC, which meant delicious creature,

and it was to be like, this person's hot over here. Oh wow. Yeah. So like that alone, you're like, wow, that would be cute if you guys didn't suck. They came into this osse against the world kind of thing, which we see in a lot of these situations. They decided they hated everyone. Everyone was fine.

Everyone was fine. Stupider than they were, and everyone else else was expendable and they were above everybody. No, shut up Myra molded herself into what she thought he and wanted her to look like and basically He kind of told her what he want what he liked to cheer her blonde hair Nope, she kept the blonde hair, but she used to dress like I said like pretty modestly and normal and She started dressing in very provocative things, like to get attention. She would dress up in high heels and boots, which is not crazy, but for her work.

For her, yeah. In short, tight skirt. She was like, I'm going to change. Showing the bosoms a little bit. And this goes back to the Nazi thing. And this is because Ian has said that he had a real infatu- infatuation with a woman named Irma Graser.

Uh-huh. Now this woman was an SS guard at the Nazi concentration camps of Ravensbrook and Auschwitz. And she served as warden of the women's section. And she's known to be like ruthless and she was known to like dress in the stark like SS uniform, with, you know what I mean, like that kind of thing. And Mira carried her photo around. That's weird as shit.

Yeah. And she also said, this is later, she said, she was like, you know, I loved him, and he was so hot and blah, blah, blah, and then she was like, but he couldn't kiss for shit. Well, because he's fucking assaulting your face. And that's when she was like, yeah, he always drew blood when he kissed. Yeah, that's not she was like, yeah, he always drew blood when he gets.

Yeah, like that's not enjoyable. So this is like real now. She's head over heels and transpire him. He's feeling like they're unified at least. And they had a live fast dye young motto between two of them. So that was their thing. Oh, cool. They're just getting so lame.

I was gonna say, I literally hate them at this point. So he said he made sure that, you know, this is an open relationship. I can fuck whoever I want. And she was like, cool. No. Now he introduced, he introduced her to like classical music and the books he read.

He very much influenced her in that way. He's like this showing her this stuff. Then came the weird discussions. Ian brought up enemies and the idea that everyone has an enemy and everyone has an enemy that they would like to see die. And if you say that you don't, you're lying. And he asked Myra if she had anyone that she would like to see dead and she responded, Ronnie Sinclair. That's not fair at all. It just fucked up. And then he was like, all right, give me details. No. And she got really vivid and cold about it. And he said, she actually surprised him

with how ruthless she was when talking about it. And she said she wanted him to be humiliated before he was killed. She already did, you fucking left him. And she wanted to watch. She said she would feel nothing for having anything to do with his death and told Ian, quote, I want him to be terrified,

Nettie, to know that he's going to die. Then they went to settle with more and planned it out and said that they can make it look like an accident. So he followed him home into work several times. They were really gonna do this. They plotted, they planned this meticulously. It never happened. Huh, I wonder why.

And he got into a motorbike accident shortly after the planning process started. And I think it just got like shifted to the wayside and they were just like, I will do that. We'll do that in 10 years. So my reclaims that he threatened to kill himself if she left him. No, cute. To which he says quote, she flatters herself. Oh, I just love the quotes between the two of them are so funny to read. Later, she said, later he did say, of course we were in love. Okay. And then he said, at least he said that we wanted to go down together

at the trial, which is true. And we'll talk about that at the trial. So he does admit like we were in love. Yeah. That is a thing. They were definitely into like super rough sex between the two of them. Well, you can only imagine with the way that he kisses. He kisses to draw blood.

So you can take what you want from that. Myra said she often had to drink in order to like really get into it. They drink a bottle of wine a day. She said, together, I'm surprised. They weren't more bloated. He also had a thing where he liked a candlestick shoved up to the ass, which I just think just freaking funny because fucking you Brady.

And also reminds me of what's that show? Shameless. There you go. So yeah, that's him. Then they had pillow talk and the pillow talk would suddenly turn into his fantasies about raping and killing a child and not getting away with it. So here we see how Myra is not this innocent victim because she was like, oh, tell me more, like right after they fucked. And they wanted it to be the perfect crime and they started talking about it real.

I'm not really like, you want to buy a big house someday? Yeah, but no, he was like, I would really love to abduct and murder a child and not get away with it. And she was like, did he ever come out and say, why children? No, that's so weird. I don't know. Well, yeah, he never really explains it. Well, when talking about this, Maira said later that she just liked swimming against the tide and not doing other things that people did

or doing things that people wouldn't do. So she's just like going against that. Like killing children. Which is like, yeah, like swim against the tide of like people eating tide pods. that tide swim against that tide. But the tide of people like loving and cherishing and protecting children or just not caring about like just ignoring children, go with that flow, swim with that tide.

Like you don't have to give a shit about children, just ignore them. Right. Like why this is not a tide that you swim against. I don't understand. So he had her read this novel by Maya Levin. It was called Compulsion, I think. And it was a fictional novel that was took, basically it was based off of Leopold and Lowe.

Oh, okay. Whoa. That was a big thunder clap. Yeah. And he, which we covered in our first live show. We did. And so this was obviously a fictional telling of this killer, or these two killers killing a child,

basically for thrill. And these killers thought they were above everything. They thought they were smarter than everyone. And he was like, use this as a manual. This is who we are. No, it's not. She read it and they were ready to go. So Ian showed her how to conquer her emotions,

she said, and how to appear level headed. So people around them would just think they were a normal decent couple. And Ian said the way Mira was infatuated with him and looked up to him, made him confident that this was the time to begin killing children. Okay. So it was like, thanks, Mira.

So they got a black van and they drove around Manchester to find kids and start this whole process. So Ian took photos of children playing Which they like compensated these later and there really is he took photos of children playing and like Yeah, and they went to like my result school and took photos of children outside They followed children took notes and took photos of children outside. They followed children, took notes. They discussed how to lure one into a van since Maira was a woman, and she figured children would take comfort in that.

Uh-huh. And they planned to bury the children they killed at Saddleworth Mores. And they visited the spot several times. They plotted it out. Ian would hold Maira, and she would go limp like a dead body so that they could practice carrying a dead limp child across the morse. Oh my god. And they did this several times. And Maira admits this.

She did this happily, she said, because she said she wanted to do this. We're like, let's do this. She said, quote, I was considered good with children, an excellent babysitter, and able to put children at ease. Could I therefore be considered capable of child objection or violence towards children? Appearantly to which I say yes, yes you can. Yeah, girl. Now we're gonna end it here. Bye.

Because right after this is when they started their reign of terror. Mm-hmm. And now you are caught up after almost two hours. Damn, two hours. Damn, two hours. Yeah. Okay.

So that is myron Ian. Yeah. And that is them getting up to the point of planning their first murder. That's fucked up. And it's going to be rough in part two, because we are coming up right to the murder of Pauline Reed, who was their first victim. She was 16 years old Oh And yeah, so hopefully you guys are hopefully I have given you enough ammo that you are just feeling so much rage towards Ian and Myra

Because shit's gonna get so much worse. I definitely feel a lot of rage. Yeah, so that is that's their tail up until now I don't really know how to tell you to follow us on Instagram Yeah, but you can do that. And you can do it at morbid podcast. I guess if you want to follow us on Twitter, feel free. At A morbid podcast. And if you have any listener tails, any case suggestions, anything hit up the Gmail account where you can talk to us.

morbidpodcast at gmail.com. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it. We're. But that's where you'd hire a hair at gmail.com. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But that's where you dye your hair plot and blood and you're like, oh my god, I'm gonna meet this cool guy name. And I'm gonna write my diary about it every single day. I'm gonna be like, oh my god, I'm gonna change for you Ian. Look at me reading this book.

I'm gonna learn to add a lot of books. Let's go kill kids. No, don't keep it that way. Don't. Fuck that. I'm a father. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside

America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children, and force a heated debate about punishment,

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