Morbid - Episode 167: Ian Brady & Myra Hindley AKA The Moors Murderers Part 2

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

Tonight is a tough one, guys and ghouls. Tonight we continue our Moors Murders series as we cover the brutal assaults and murders of 16 year old Pauline Reade, 12 year old John Kilbride and 12 year old Keith Bennett by true demons Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. These abductions and murders will sound like something out a horror movie but unfortunately, they are all too real for the victims' families. Brady and Hindley left a trail of chaos and shattered hearts in their paths. Listener discretion is advised. Books used in this episode: Ian Brady:The Untold Story of the Moors Murders By Dr. Alan Kneightly Evil Relations By David Smith & Carol Ann Lee Depraved: The Moors Murders By C.G.C. Cook The Monstering of Myra Hindley By Nina Wilde Thank you to our sponsors! Upstart See why Upstart has a 4.9 out of 5 rating on Trustpilot and hurry to Upstart.com/morbid to find out HOW LOW your Upstart rate can be. Checking your rate only takes a few minutes! That’s Upstart.com/morbid! Simplisafe Try SimpliSafe today at SimpliSafe.com/morbid. You get free shipping and a 60-day risk free trial. There’s nothing to lose. That’s SimpliSafe.com/morbid. First Leaf Sign up today to get 6 bottles of wine for only $29.95, plus free shipping! Just go to Try Firstleaf.com/morbid. T See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Morbid early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. This episode is sponsored by the Audible Original Series, Exposed, the Ashley Madison hack. In the early 2000s, millions of people joined AshleyMadison.com, a dating site for married people to have affairs. But the promise of discretion was shattered in the summer of 2015 when anonymous hackers published millions of cheating spouses information into a searchable database.

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their downfall was swift and brutal. Listen to Blame It On The Fame, Milli Vanilli, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. another morbid this one's gonna ruin your life yay yeah guys this one is yeah it's gonna ruin your life i'm fairly certain awesome yeah we came up into the pod lab and um we were saying like bye

to um elena's mother-in-law and i was was like, bye, like, see you in a little bit. And then Alina was like, you're going to come downstairs much different. And I was like, she's going to come downstairs mentally scarred for life. So thanks for that. So. Can't wait for the scarring process. Yeah. This one's going to be a doozy.

And I might as well just say it right out front. This involves rape, murder, children, just just terrible shit everything that you could imagine being wrong with the world is in this story i will tell you i'm gonna give you all the details that i feel are necessary but i'm i you know if something was gratuitous i you know it's a child i don't really gratuitous i love it if something feels gratuitous i'm not gonna include it but i'm gonna you're gonna get a whole picture and you're going to get details and they might be uncomfortable details. So I just want to be upfront about that. You should. You know, if it's not something you're looking to hear, there is going to be another part to this series.

The next, the part three, I'm going to cover three of the murders out of five today because I think five will maybe make us all implode. It's a little too much. No, thank you. And I'm going to cover the last two in the next episode and we'll cover the aftermath and all that craziness in that episode. So it'll be a little more less like two, you know, in your face part three. There's going to be two that are going to be like really in your face and then the rest will be a little more. Perfect. Yeah, excited about it i mean it's kind of bad all the way around but okay i'm trying i'm trying to make it less horrible but i can't um yeah well we have palette cleansers for these episodes so we do we got we got some palette cleansers wait i broke that's okay it's normally me and you know what

it's just been a lot of reading books about these two um fucking assholes so i elena had a nightmare last night i did i had a nightmare with ian brady in it and it upset me when you told me that you had a nightmare i was like oh good so i'm just gonna need like extra therapy this week because i was reading it like far i was reading it like far into the night because i was trying to go over like another side of a story and I was it just was too close to bedtime and it just did a number you should have watched Hamilton again Alina made me watch Hamilton with her last night and the night before I really should have and you loved it didn't you you know what I fucking did I told you and I just keep singing you'll be back yep like before but that's all I can sing without getting sued um yeah so i like hamilton now i

guess that's a new update in our life yeah that's a new true crime update to do with uh this another update is that the michaels halloween section yeah guys get on it that literally has nothing to do with anything we were just saying but just to talk about my week yeah i literally bought so much shit from mich Michael's today to decorate my home for Halloween. And it just feels good that it's spooky season. It's here, guys. It's here. Like pre-October is days away. Pre-October, for those of you who don't know, is September. Exactly. Alina and I coined September as pre-October. September is like, I don't even know what that means. Yeah, that's not even a thing. And thing and we're ready we're gonna get a projector this year and watch horror movies in the backyard and we're

gonna try to make it fun for the kids since they won't be able to trick-or-treat well yeah they can come to my house and trick-or-treat and then we'll come back and watch Hocus Pocus and it'll be fun everyone's like it's August yeah don't worry we're planning okay so let's get into the horrifics of it all so yeah we're gonna get into this oh before um i jump right into the case i just want to mention one last thing it's very quick um i mentioned all the books that i've been reading for this case last time and i mispronounced one of the author's names um it's dr alan keatley i think i said like nightly oh because words are hard uh it's keatley though i believe i looked it back. I think I, like, looked at the word, and I just found an N in it somewhere, or I just made it sound like my name.

Sometimes my brain just, like, reads the next word, or, like... But I just, yeah. But it's a really great book, and he's a very good resource, and I didn't want to, like, not say his name right. So, yeah. Dr. Alan Keatley. Ian Brady. Read that book.

It's great. Okay. So, the last time we left you you know myra and ian we we went through their backgrounds they are together now they just decided they're gonna kill children and yeah they've discovered that they're very in sync with their needs and wants and they've decided like ash just said that they want to rape and kill children together and then they decide that as like pillow talk. Yeah.

Basically after their like weird sex that they had. Good. Yeah. Where he just like viciously attacked her face and was like, let me clamber my teeth into yours. Exactly. Yeah. So Ian at this point is 25 years old.

Holy shit. He's literally a year older than me. Yeah. And Myra was 22. Wow. Which puts it into big perspective. So young. Because you feel it. I don't know why I felt like they were older. And Myra was 22. Wow. Which puts it into big perspective. That's like so young. Because you feel it. I don't know why I felt like they were older. No, I did too. It's not like these are mature things to do, but like. Also, I feel like in all the pictures I've seen of them,

I'm like, whoa, you're a rough 22 sister. I mean, they both had, they had a rough go at it. Yeah. Both of them. So, I mean, they wear it on their faces, both of them. So, what we learned was that they have been visiting saddleworth more a lot and that's where they decided that they wanted to use it as a killing ground and they wanted to use it as a burial ground because of the vastness and the quiet and the distance away from civilization nobody really is there it's very lonely and desolate it's like the perfect spot for them to be monsters at. Well, I found out one extra thing about Saddleworth Moor that I thought was interesting. It has had a lot of like spooky,

like weird things happening. And in 1949, 24 people died when a plane crashed on Saddleworth Moor. Oh, shit. Which I had no idea. It was on a flight from Belfast. People did survive it. I think only eight people survived it. That's crazy. One doctor at the scene said, quote, I found bodies scattered all over the moors. There were a few survivors lying groaning on the hillside, but some of them died before I could attend to them. I have been a doctor since 1914 and served in both wars, but this was the worst sight that I have ever seen. My God. So already this place has like serious dark ominous energy and we heard from a few of our uk listeners who were like i live near

those moors or they're like right next door to me or they're like right down the street it's crazy so like i love hearing that like when people are saying that and i was like that is fascinating because you feel like they're not real when we're over here. We're over in the United States. It's probably how people feel about like the Bridgewater Triangle. Exactly. When we talk about that. And then we're like, yeah, we live there.

And they're like, what? But like on a different level. It just doesn't feel real. Like it doesn't feel like Saddleworth more as a real place even though it is. So what they've decided now that they're going to start, you know, assaulting and killing children is that they are going to have to form a code to do this way. And Myra didn't decide this. Ian decided this.

And they already had like that little code where they would raise their eyebrows at each other. Oh, this is a different kind of code. Like not the code like I'm warning you about something. This is like a code, like a moral code to go by. Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So this code is like rules that they're going to follow so that they don't get caught. Did they like write this shit down?

They did. And it was Ian who was very serious about this code because he wanted to do this forever. He was like, he's a Capricorn, right? He sure is. It makes sense that he had to write down his fucking plan to do something. Whenever I see things like this in this case, like as a Capricorn, I'm like, I get it. It makes full sense that he was like, listen, My're gonna write everything down we're gonna do this my way he also had we're gonna find out soon after they murdered they had a he created a checklist for

them to go down to make sure that they got rid of all the quote on what he called forensic so so he's a he's very much a Capricorn yeah through and through for sure but like the worst kind um so this code the first thing about in this code was the most important thing and it was no connecting threads okay so he was like there cannot be even one tiny thread that connects us to the person we killed right it has to be like a completely random person that we don't know. Exactly. He was like, no way can we ever be connected to this person. We can't kill people we know.

We can't kill people that our friends know. It has to be a completely random stranger. Nothing can be traced to us, which is, I guess, a good thing to start with if you're going to start murdering people. Yeah. They also- Don't write that down. Yeah.

I mean, don't. But he also said, we're going to have to make sure we get rid of any tire marks any footprints we have to make sure there's no hairs fibers fingerprints we have to like go down the checklist and make sure duh ian then he said we have to go to these murders with a set of duplicate clothing uh-huh so that we can take off the clothing we use, tear it up into little pieces, and burn it. Okay. And that makes sense again. Everything has to be cleaned immediately, including the car that we use. It's, like, has to be done that the second we are done with the murder, we are cleaning everything. Wow. We're not spending, you know, we're not going to

bed and then waking up in the morning. Like, right there it's happening like right there um and he also had a luggage like a a pair of luggage that he brought to where did he bring oh the manchester central station and he kept it in the lost luggage and he used that for what he called incriminating evidence and he just toss it in there they were locked so like nobody could get into them except for him but that's where he kept all the things that he didn't want them to find in his home that's like really smart in like a crazy way he's so intricate with this shit uh and they said and they didn't want to you know because they he said basically we should destroy all evidence like we shouldn't shouldn't keep anything. We shouldn't do anything. No trophies.

But then he was like, what if we do? We should put it in the luggage. So it's like, well, you're kind of already breaking your own code there. Right. So he also said we have to have false plates on all the cars that we use. We have to destroy the weapons afterwards. So if we use a knife, we have to break the blade off the handle and we have to burn the handle and melt the blade. Jesus Christ. Yes i'm like all right what are your days off also i'm like

how how long did it take you to come up with all this like i feel like you've been thinking about this for a while and then the last thing was we they had to make sure they had an alibi of some sort so they would like go to the movies and get a movie ticket or they you know make sure they talk to their mother before they did this and it had to be they said it had to be viable this alibi for up to 14 days wait what like meaning it would check out for that like 14 days like it would like if you looked at it a week later you could still be able to recall exactly where you were if somebody said okay two weeks ago what did you do on this day right now you'd be like i don't fucking know i have literally no idea and i

would be like i i have no idea what i done on that day he was like oh no we're gonna know everything we did on that day so you have to make sure that at least 14 days out you can remember every detail of it damn I love it. Damn. Yeah. I would have had trouble with that one. Now, another, like, interesting rule that he didn't make official, but he did mention it later, and I just thought it was interesting, because I'm like, what? Oh, God. He, so, this came about when they went on, on like a quick little getaway to Scotland, him and

Myra once, like during a weekend, because he would take her. During their day off. Yeah, you know, he would take her back to Scotland and like show her his old like hangouts. Like you would in a relationship. I mean, well, they were in a relationship, I guess. And oftentimes, you know, it was Scotland in, you know, the 60s at this point that are late 50s, early 60s yeah a lot of kids were just like playing outside a lot of them by themselves yeah like it happened all the

time and he said often myra would say why can't we pick one of these kids yeah and he would always say i would never harm a fellow scots kid wow so he said absolutely not we will never take someone from glasgow I feel like that makes sense because Papa's Scottish and Papa's not a murderer, obviously. No. But I feel like that, like, it makes sense. Like, knowing a Scottish person, it makes sense. It does. Like, when he, when I read that, I was like, as weird as that sounds, I'm like, yeah, I get it. I get that. Like, Scottish people are like, we're all brethren. Yeah, we're all brethren. So July 11th, 1963. We're about to get into it, everybody.

Hold on to those butts. Like I said last time, gorilla glue for the booty. It's going to get bad. So he has those two luggage bags and he leaves them at the Manchester Central Station because they're ready. They're ready to go now. They know they want to do this. They're starting the plan. The code is in place. Let's get it. He said, yeah. So now Myra said later that she never knew what was in those bags. She never opened them. She never knew what was in them. That's probably a lie, right? I think, I think mostly everything that Myra says is a lie. And the reason I think this is because she gets proven wrong quite often.

And she lies to the victim's families outright. Right. Like, she's been caught. What moral code does she have? Yeah. And it's like, she lied about the Leslie Ann Downey shit.

Like, she said she wasn't there. She was running a bath, which we'll get into in part three. But it's like, and then she was caught. She didn't think they would ever get that tape. And they got the tape and they find out that she was

really willing in it. So she saw the shit in the bag she probably because i feel like i picture her more wanting to take something than i picture ian wanting to take something and you know what you're right on target there hey yo because you will see she kind of fucks up at one two years into this podcast i figured it out on it now you figured out the code uh so yeah so she said she's never seen what's in them. I think Dr. Alan Keatley was the one who spoke very often to Ian Brady. Yeah. And Ian Brady often contradicted what Myra said and was like, yeah, okay, she can say whatever she wants.

And like, here's the proof for this. But he would often, yeah, like, be like, here's the proof. But I don't think he ever would answer that question of whether she had seen what's in there or not. So they both took that answer with them. Okay. Basically. We know what's in there, obviously, right? We don't.

Oh, okay. We don't know what's in there. I don't even know where they went. Oh, shit. I know. So it's weird. So they planned that if they, so they were going to go out and they were going to look for someone.

They never had someone in mind ahead of time. They went out hunting. Right. And they picked the person right then and there. And they had the plan in place, but they picked the person on the spot. That's always scarier. It is. So they planned that if they didn't find someone the following day by 8 p.m., that they were going to abort the mission and wait a while. Okay. That was their plan. And they also, again, wanted to establish alibis by starting home, and they want, like, they wanted to start at home in the evening and be there up until eight o'clock right so uh so friday july 12

1963 they both went to work they worked a normal day till like 5 5 30 and then they were like all right we're gonna go out hunting tonight that's what they were going to do. Friday night. So they went to Gorton Lane to go hunting. That was nearby where they were. And Ian was at his home first and he prepped ahead of time. And he got, so he, what he did was he put like a band on his wrist. And in that elastic band, he put a, like a knife, like a sheath knife. Okay. And then he put the handle towards his hand, so he would be able to like pull it out if he needed to. Yeah. And he also had another knife and an oiled sheath. Okay. Which if anybody can tell me what like an oiled sheath would do, would that just make it easier to pull out at a moment's notice? Yes. I'm not sure. I'm just

saying that I have no idea. It would, but I don't know if that's the reason for it. But like, let us know if you know. Maybe it's so that the knife didn't rust. I have no idea. That could be it. Sure, why not? He also put on surgical gloves. As one does.

And to hide that, because that's pretty like, oh, hi, I'm going to murder you. A telltale sign. He put on leather riding gloves over his uh surgical gloves all right but his hands were nice and clammy real gross and so he also had his camera because remember in part two he had bought a camera and he got really into documenting a lot of shit because he's a sexual sadist sure is and if you google ian brady and myra hindley many photos that he has taken come up no thanks they're not like gruesome or anything they're just of the two of them like they took a lot of photos of each

other um so he had his camera and he also had um a pair of binoculars okay and those things he had hidden ahead of time in myra's van okay now. Now, if you remember, Myra had borrowed a black van from a neighbor. Oh, she borrowed it from a neighbor. I thought they got it. They eventually, the neighbor does give them the van, so that was good, but they eventually just borrowed it. She's like, you can keep the van. Yeah, you got that van. That's all you. It's all you. So, the binoculars were used because they, he wanted to be absolutely sure that no one was in, like, miles radius of what they were doing. So they would use the binoculars to make sure there wasn't even, like, the slightest movement out of the horse. Like, they were very paranoid.

This is so fucked up, but I'm picturing, like, a silent film of them getting ready. It's true. Like a black and white silent film. Because he's wearing, like, a three-piece suit. Yeah. Which is very silent filmy. And then she's, like, dressed in, like, the 60s, like, very, like, femme fatale kind of thing. And then I just picture him, like, looking out, like, side to side with the binoculars.

And you can hear, like, the weird, like, da-da-da-da-da-da music going. And I, like, picture her, like, going out to, like, start the van. Yeah. Hate it. My brain works in a real weird way. What a fucked up silent movie. Yeah. So at 7.45 p.m., Ian went downstairs downstairs and he saw his mother, Maggie, and he saw his

stepfather, Pat Brady. And they were watching TV, I think, at the time. And he just said, hey, is the clock right? And they were like, that was smart, right? And so they were like, oh, yeah, the clock's right. It's this time, blah, blah, blah. And he did that so that, boom, they would remember. Like, that's, it was genius. Yeah, honestly blah and he did that so that boom they would remember like that's it was genius yeah honestly so he did that unfortunately he's smart and again using the neighbor's black van the plan was that myra was going to be dry she was going to drive around in the van with ian behind her on his motorbike okay because remember he has a moth or bike yes uh when myra saw a potential victim she would slow down to alert ian that she was considering one and he would see this and if he agreed that

this was a good choice he would flash his headlights at her oh my god but if he didn't flash his headlights he was like keep going so yeah it's insane imagine picture it like seeing a guy in a three-piece suit just riding a motorbike no and and ian brady who's this like super gangly like he almost has like bug eyes he does he's there's a lot there's a lot of evil just showing on his face like it like comes out of his face now the reason that they were giving for needing to go to saddleworth more when they picked someone up because they weren't just going to pick someone up abduct them violently and then like just kicking and screaming get them to Saddleworth Moor. Very obvious. Because they had planned this out they wanted this to be a cathartic and like transcendental experience for the two of them. So they wanted to be able to lead them out to the

Moors and then have the experience they didn't want to have to drag them out to the Moors that ruins the whole thing for them. You need the drive to the moors to be calm yeah and like exciting almost yeah exactly so the reason that they how they were going to get this kid in the car and with them to saddleworth moor was they were going to say that myra had dropped a glove earlier on the moors and that this glove was very special to her it had sentimental value and they would ask his kids always want to help and they were going to pray on that and they would ask because kids always want to help and they were gonna pray on that and they were gonna say could you please help us find this glove like they were gonna offer the kid like a ride somewhere like home or wherever they were

going and then go like first do you mind if we stop really quick and i feel like you'll be able to help us right so far it worked every single. Yeah. So they also had a spade that they, or like a shovel, that they had hidden in the moors already. And they bought a shovel for every murder because they would get rid of the shovel afterwards. Wow. So they were very thorough. With cash. Yes, exactly. So they drove down Gorton Lane and Brady immediately sees a little girl.

Okay. Immediately. And he immediately starts flashing his lights because he's like, whoa, whoa, Brady immediately sees a little girl. Okay. Immediately. And he immediately starts flashing his lights because he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I want this one. Ew. Yeah. And Myra keeps driving. She's not slowing down.

So he's like, what the fuck? So he had her pull over up like a little ways and he's like, what? Why didn't you pull over? And she's like, okay, well, that's Mary Ruck. I know who that is. Oh, shit. And she's like okay well that's mary ruck i know who that is oh shit and she's eight years old and she said and she is lucky to have escaped with her life because ian wanted that wanted her really bad yeah so yeah so he was like well what so when he said like why didn't you grab her she

was like i know who she is and myra said she, her family were neighbors with Myra's mother. Oh, so that's a very direct link. And they were like, also, and the two of them did agree on this, that she was like, also an eight-year-old is going to make a lot more headlines than a little older. And also it's a fucking eight-year-old. Exactly. Jesus Christ. Because the way they talk about this is like, and then we just realized that, you know,

like eight-year-olds, that's really going to get some attention. And it's like, you're talking about a fucking child. Right. Any human is going to make a splash. But especially a child. But a fucking eight year old, you're talking about it like it's a bike. So he agreed. He was like, yep, that would, you know, no connecting threads.

We don't need that. And you're right. Like, let's not start off with a bang and get caught right away. Jesus Christ. So they keep going down Gordon Lane. And eventually they let this led to Froxmer Lane. And on this street, she parked the van and they decided they were going to wait. See if anybody walked down. And they waited a little while, not too long. And then a young, beautiful 16 year old girl named Pauline Reed came walking down the street towards the van now

pauline had dark hair and blue eyes she was like beautiful and she just like looks sweet right like you just look at the picture of it and you're just like oh when you have dark hair and blue eyes you're just like the prettiest i know that's such a good combination it really is and it's like rare yeah it is yeah so she was wearing a pink and gold skirt a black dress shirt a cardigan and a powder blue coat that was like flared out and like it had a belt around it yeah she was wearing um new shoes that she had just bought that day they were white heels with like ankle straps on them oh my god she's she looks fashionable like you look great girl but that evening so what she was doing out at that time and alone was that evening she

had begged her mother to allow her to attend a dance at the Railway Workers Social Club, which was only about 10 minutes walk away from her house. Okay. And like this happened a lot. Yeah. Her mom initially said no because her friends who were supposed to go with her suddenly weren't allowed to go. Their mom said no because alcohol was sold at that place.

And so they were like, no, you're not going there. But eventually she did convince her mom that she, that to let her go because she was like, oh, other friends are going to be there and I'll just meet them. Right. And so her mom was like, all right. And even after that, she was like, I like struggled with that decision. And like, obviously she like, struggled with that decision. And, like, obviously she, like, kicked herself for it afterward. And it's like, oh.

That's like the episode we did on the Irish. Yeah. The Ireland Triangle. The Vanishing Triangle. It's like hindsight is always 20-20. And her mother, whose name is Joan, says she remembers getting her ready, doing her hair and makeup. And then before she left she gave her her favorite locket to wear around her neck wow the way that just like set up yeah oh wow and like

the she literally was like i'll take good care of it yeah like that's what she said and she remembers you know saying bye to her daughter and that was the last time she saw her alive jesus she had left the house at around 7 45 that is brutal so she ran right into them it was like perfect timing so on the way before she had seen myra and ian she ran into her best friend pat cummings on the way to the dance and pat cummings had was one of the friends who was suddenly not allowed to go to the dance yeah all of a sudden she wasn't telling um she wasn't telling, she wasn't telling Pauline this yet because she wanted to surprise her. Her mom had said she could

go. Yeah. So when she ran into Pat, she was like, oh yeah, I still can't go. And then she was going to go around a different way and meet her at the entrance and be like, surprise, we got to go. Oh my god. Yeah. And it was going to be her and another friend, I think, that were going to do this. Everything that's working the way that it's working right now is like horrific. Yeah. And it was going to be her and another friend, I think, that were going to do this. Everything that's working the way that it's working right now is like horrific. Yeah. And after talking to her like really briefly, they did take another way. They walked down Froxmer Street and they waited at the entrance of this social club and she never showed up.

And they just figured, because I guess everything that I read about her, people said she was very shy. She was very careful. She was very careful. She was nervous of like strangers. She did not like fuck with strangers. So they thought she didn't. Maybe she changed her mind. And they were like, I think she really thought we weren't going to go.

And they were like, we were surprised, honestly, that she was like being so confident to like just go by herself. So they were like, we thought she just went home. Because this wasn't a school dance. No, this was just like a dance dance right right and um so later pat cummings said quote when she came to our house she would ask me to walk her home if it was dusk she was not the sort to get in a car with a stranger okay and the thing about this is she doesn't get in the car with a stranger she knew myra so why did don't worry we'll get into that so her full name is pauline pauline catherine reed and she was raised as a catholic she loved going to mass she was a good girl her

parents were joan and amos reed she had an older brother named paul and they were a very close family yeah it sounds like it yeah like she was close to everyone in her family, but Paul and her were super close, like very close siblings, and her and her mother were very close. Yeah. She, like I said, she knew Myra. And how she knew Myra was she had gone to school with her sister Maureen. Oh. And Maureen was 17 at the time.

Right. So she's like a younger younger sister. Only a year older then. And Myra had spoken to Pauline's mother several times. You're kidding me. They had interacted before. So already you're breaking the rules. Oh, yeah.

Big time. And then Myra's father, like the drunk one that constantly went crazy on his family. The one that's like Ian. He and Pauline's father Amos were often together at the pub talking. The two fathers knew each other. Okay. So this is like completely. Oh, and just wait, because there's another connection that will come up.

What? Later? So yeah, a little, just in a little bit. But as Pauline walks down the road, she's stopped by Myra in the black van. And she asked her, she was like, oh, hey, do you want a lift? Like, I'm Maureen's sister. And she was like, oh, yeah, like, I remember. I know you want a lift like i'm maureen's sister and she was like oh yeah like i know you you look just like fucking maureen exactly so she agreed because she's like

of course i'm gonna get in it's fucking maureen's older sister i know her i've seen her i talked to her so then myra said okay cool i'll bring you to the dance and then she's like but you know what can we stop at saddleworth more real quick because i lost a very important glove yada yada yada couldn't you help me find it and pauline's like a sweet girl she's kind she's helpful so she was like absolutely and and again this is someone she knows older sister she's just being a good good person exactly now of course at this time the signal had now gone out to brady and was to Ian Brady and he was alerted to meet her at the Moors because apparently Maya was going with this. Okay. Which is not a good idea. Which is not what she's supposed to do. Now he said later I just have to read what he said about his when he got

that signal and he was like cool I'm gonna go meet them. Oh man. His inner thoughts because you do think about it like he must have been thinking crazy she's saying we're doing this he's watching this girl get into the car and he's sitting there going i'm gonna brutally murder this girl right we're on our way to do this right now like this is the first one so he later said of this quote no one who's and this is something that like you don't think about until somebody says it no one who saw me ride past them on my way to Gorton could have guessed what I was about to do. That's, that is crazy. It was unfolding before their eyes, but how could they know?

They would know many, many years later, but wouldn't remember that I rode past them that night. For me, it was the beginning of an existential exercise beyond good and evil. The streets of Manchester were the backdrops for scene one. This was the one far-off event to which my destiny had been taking me all these years. I recoiled at the idea, but at the same time I was impatient for its fruition. The passing throng could not know it. They were cut off from me forever. Something irrevocable was about to happen, which would affect the lives of thousands for decades into the future and soon reduce my life to the status of a ghost on the human stage. I felt a strange sense of nostalgia for the world I was about to abandon, as though an irreversible final parting was taking place.

Was I about to step through the final doorway to madness, or had I already entered it long ago? I'm going to need the cliff notes for that one. So basically what he's saying is he drove by a bunch of people that day and in his mind as he's driving by them, he's like, they have no idea what I'm about to do. Yeah. But later when like, you know, when the story is told. They're going to be like, holy fuck, I drove past that guy. They'll find out. And he was like, and you know, he said he's like, it's going to affect thousands of people.

Like, this is going to be something that's going to shatter the world eventually. I feel like he's one of those, obviously, people that thinks a lot about themselves. Like, they will remember me, Ian. Unfortunately, he's correct. Of course, yeah. And also, he thinks so highly of himself. Just the way he speaks is like, I'm so above all of you. It's like he goes way, he's so hyperbolic and he's so like,

and like flowery with his language and theatrical. It's like, oh. Not to feed into it and he's not above anybody, but the way that he thinks is just so far removed from how anybody, like normal people think. And it's unfortunate, but it would be a lie to say that he's not highly intelligent he is more intelligent than many people he just uses it in a very evil way yeah he just tapped into a really dark part of that intelligence yeah

and it's unfortunate but i thought it was interesting to hear what went through his mind because rarely do we hear what goes through a serial killer's mind as they're about to go commit their first murder that is very true that is so planned out um so when they get there he said myra and pauline this is what ian said that myra and pauline were smoking cigarettes together sitting in the van and he said he looked at pauline and he said she was very pretty immediately. And in Dr. Alan Keatley's book, he said that Ian told him he started to remove the leather gloves as he approached them. Oh, God. But then realized that he had the surgical gloves underneath them. So he was like, oh, shit.

So he kept them on. But can you imagine this dude walking up to you and he pulls off his gloves and he's wearing surgical gloves? I'd be like, whoa. So they started all looking for the glove because that's what they were there for he was like let's go look but myra and ian had a place already planned out so they were taking her directly to the place they'd already planned out no idea yep and they led her directly there ian trailed behind them a little but then after letting myra know that he was ready to go through what he called the groucho, where he like lifted his eyebrows.

Yeah. He did that. And that was the sign that he was going to grab Pauline and it was going to begin. Okay. So he did it. And he came up behind Pauline. He grabbed her from behind in what he referred to as a Japanese stranglehold. Okay.

And I was like, you probably just grabbed her. Like, don't. Yeah. Let's calm down. Let's not name things. She fell to the ground and they were, she was told not to make a sound because it was pointless anyways that's what they told her literally was and it was unfortunately uh according to ian she looked up at myra and immediately started begging her please myra

make him stop because again she's thinking like myra girl will make this stop like this can't happen and he said myra just smiled down at her and ian said that myra just yelled at her to be quiet again and like and her face just changed like she was like shit i have no one here right that's immediately she was like i'm alone it's just realization so ian claims that pauline also begged myra to tell him that she was unwell and he was like and he was like you need to tell me what that means like what do you mean yeah well and myra was like she means she's on her period she's on that time of the month okay and obviously he did he didn't care and she was trying to say that to avoid being raped because of course he's, she knows what's happening.

Has her on the ground. She can see what's happening. Myra immediately started undressing her as he held her. She begged her to stop the entire time, and Myra kept going. They undressed her completely. They raped her together. Ew. When they were done, they let her get dressed.

But when she went to put on the necklace, Myra grabbed it out of her hands. I knew the necklace was going to come into play. And she said something like, you won't be needing this where you're going. Now, that sounds like something out of a movie and like, you're not going to need this where you're going. Well, Ian was pissed because if you remember from part one, one of his biggest things is he doesn't he wants to be shocking likes to surprise his victims he doesn't want them knowing what's happening right and so he was pissed and he said the first thing that he came to his mind was he just reached out

and slapped myra across the face like struck her in the face must have been so confusing for pauline pauline must have been like what the fuck because they've done this horrific thing to you. Now they're fighting with each other. I'd be like, oh, my God, what's going to happen here? So, yeah, so she, he slaps her in the face. And Ian said that he let, after that, it just went silent. Everyone just went silent. And he said he let, like, the dark, deep, oppressive silence just hang for a moment. Ew.

And everybody, just terror hanging in the air and he like right obviously and he let pauline understand and he said that that silence was supposed to let her understand that they were gonna kill her okay and he was like and it did because i looked in her face and it was like abject terror, like she knew. Great. Then Myra said out of nowhere, she's Pauline Reed. And Ian was like, say what? If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good you are a fan

of The Strange, Dark, and Mysterious. And if that's true, then you're in luck. Because once again, Mr. Ballin' Podcast, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories is available everywhere you get your podcasts. Each week on the Mr. Ballin Podcast, you'll hear new stories about inexplicable encounters, shocking disappearances, true crime cases, and everything in between. Like our recent episode titled White Dust. After a middle-aged couple failed to answer their daughter's messages and calls, the daughter drives the few hours to her parents' house to check on them.

But after arriving and seeing both her parents' cars in the driveway, the daughter gets an uneasy feeling and just can't stomach going inside. To hear the rest of that story and hear hundreds more stories like it, follow Mr. Ballin Podcast on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Why did she say that? So I think... Did you think she just realized it?

No, she got slapped in the face. And then was like, I'll slap you in the face. Well, guess what, motherfucker? It's Pauline Reed. We just broke our first code. Like, I think she was literally like, eh, well, there you go. So like, slap me, I'll slap you. Slap me?

I'm gonna i just fucked you over like sorry so ian what had happened was because he was like wait pauline reed what and he's like what does that mean i was gonna say does that mean well ian had taken photos of maureen myra's sister like maureen had asked him to take photos he was a good photographer and she was like can you take photos for me i want to give it want to give these photos to my boyfriend, David Smith, who is 17 as well. Yeah. They also called Maureen Moe. Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense. He thought, now Ian thought that Maureen was more attractive than Myra. Yes. And let Myra know that. That's nice. Made it very obvious throughout the whole session. Again, like a Carla Homolka and- It's literally the same

thing parle bernardo i literally just forgot it's the same thing that's weird and the whole time he was telling her like how beautiful and he was flirting with her and myra was there and myra was right there watching the entire thing yep what the fuck i'd be like cool then we're done yeah well and then myra um had so myra told, so after the photo session, Myra allegedly told Ian that David, Maureen's boyfriend. Yes. Had been seen with another girl recently and she was pissed about it. Oh.

And she said that girl's name is Pauline Reed. Okay. So this other girl, that 16-year-old girl that now it wasn't, he was seen with her, like, making out with her or something. It was literally seen with her. They were just seen together and it pissed her off. That's all it was. Now, Myra initially, when she told Ian this, like, after the photo session, she was like,

I want David dead. But Ian was like, no, we can't kill Ian. Like, do you see how this doesn't work? Right. We can't kill your sister's boyfriend. That's way too connected. You're stupid. The first part of the code.

And then he was like, no, what we could do was sometime later, we can get Maureen and David to help us. Like, we can blackmail them into helping us. Okay. So he's like, they're useful. They're 17. Like, we can totally manipulate them into helping us. It's terrifying.

So she gave it up. You would think he'd be smarter than to, like like young people you would think but ian immediately now now like we go forward when she says it's pauline reed he immediately is like oh shit this is pauline that maureen had seen talking to her friend fucking david smith and he was like oh my god Myra did this just to get revenge on this like to take away the source of Maureen's like like she did it for her sister almost and he's like what the fuck like you can't do that like we can't just like enact your revenge like that's not how this works so he's like oh shit so again this is a direct connection in many ways. So he's pissed. So at this point, he ran back to the van to grab the camera and such and left her with Myra.

Because he's like, now nothing is good here. We have to kill her. Not that I was going to not kill her, but like, what other choice do we have? And he didn't really probably want to at that point anymore. Exactly. And now it's kind of like broken down the very like clinical, very like by the book way that he wanted to do this. And let me tell you what happens when you fuck with a Capricorn's plan. It's true. It's not good. I would never fuck with Elena's plan.

Exactly. And that's what just, and this, this happened in a big way. Yeah. So he's real not happy, but he leaves Myra with Polly. He's real not happy. He's, I would, one would say he's real not happy, but he leaves Myra with Pauline. He's real not happy. He's real not happy. One would say he's real not happy. Okay. Just putting it. Not happy. No. Okay.

Real not happy. I don't know why it came out like that. That was funny. I just have a lot going on. We all need it. But so he leaves her with Myra. He runs back to get the stuff. When he comes back, he says that Myra was on top of Pauline and was screaming for Ian to help her. And Ian's like, what the fuck just happened?

Like, what? He's like, I didn't tell you to do anything. And then he realizes that she has tried to stab Pauline in the chest with the kitchen knife that they had. But the kitchen knife was too dull and the blade had bent. She had hit her so hard that the blade bent. Oh, my God. blade had bent she had hit her so hard that the blade bent oh my god and then he says he looks at her face and her head and she's gushing blood from everywhere because myra had literally like beat the shit out of her with her fists or something or maybe the knife even yeah he was

like he hit her with something because she had like a huge hematoma on her head her nose was busted her mouth was bleeding he's like i've been gone for like four seconds and he's like damn so he was like all right well okay blood is everywhere so he kneels down he grabs the knife and that he had strapped to his wrist yeah like she's not the bent one yeah because he was like you didn't even do this right apparently so he grabs the one on his wrist and he cuts her throat okay the first cut was not deep enough to sever the carotid artery, so he did it again. Oh, God. The second one worked, and he said she bled out instantaneously. Okay. Now that's how she died. further it is human nature that if caught the pupil will blame the master for their own criminal conduct but should the criminal enterprises succeed i can assure you from wide personal experience the pupils uh the pupils devotion to criminal activities can outdo that of the master

like that of a convert wow so he was literally like she would have outdone me. Yeah, because again, Myra, we'll go into what's going to happen is we are going to hear Ian's version of these stories and Myra's. You guys can decide which one you believe. I think it's somewhere, not in the middle, because I think Myra is a lying asshole. Ian is an asshole. Right. I don't think he lies. I don't, I don't think he cares about looking bad. I think he's just like, yes, this is what lying asshole. Ian is an asshole. Right. I don't think he lies. I don't I don't think he cares about looking bad. I think he's just like yes this is what I did. But I'm sure he embellishes a little more than necessary. Exactly. So I think he if anything adds on to what happened Myra takes away. Okay. Completely. So I think it's somewhere. But the truth lies a lot closer to Ian's version of events. Closer to Ian's version. And Myra's, I think, is completely false.

Because she removes herself from any blame at all. And as we know from the audio of Leslie Ann Downey, she is not blameless. Well, I think that she knows she's a woman. And I think she probably thought she could be like, I could never. Oh, yeah. She thinks she's going to get all the sympathy. But no one believes her. So Myra had got, so she got out of the van.

They put the weapons away. While he waited, he chain smoked, he said, but he was very careful to put the butts in his pocket. He didn't flick them onto the moors because that would be done. And he said he just sat there and stared at Pauline's body in the silence, in the darkness. Okay. Which I'm like, you fucking monster. You're like twisted fuck that's

monster under your bed shit that's like i'm just sitting there staring at this woman i just brutalized this whole thing sounds like a fake movie it does and it's real which is so scary and i have to say the way you're telling it i'm like picturing everything in my head right it's like because it's the way it happened is just so like cinematic unfortunately like horror cinematic it's just so movie it's so movie we're much movie so cinema we're both not good at this today so they dug a grave about four or five feet deep because it's like um peat out there so it's very like easy to dig in i was like it's what you're like yeah peter uh and they placed her in they took care not to make the outside of the grave look like the earth had been disturbed right

so they made it look like it was just everything else they counted their steps going back so that they could come back and photograph it later okay yeah they tore up all their clothing and they burned them along with the handle of the knife and then they threw the remnants of it in the river urwell they cleaned the van completely myra admitted to him that she kept the necklace out of nowhere she was like oh whoops i have this necklace by the way and did they go put it in the um and he was like you dumbass well no he was like no like we did not discuss taking that you can't do this like he like, you fucked up the entire first thing. Well, and she also was like, I also took the money out of her purse or out of her pocket. Excuse me.

You can't spend her money. Now, according to Ian, that's what happened. Myra took the money and was like, whoop, whoop. And they were like, well, now we have to spend this to get it away from us. Like we can't have this. Right. And but according to Myra ian took the money and she said that they should put it they should bury it with her body no i think i think

she took the money exactly so i just i have no idea but both of them say the complete opposite because his whole thing was no we can't take anything i don't think he would have taken the money and they ended up burying the necklace somewhere far away because they were like, which how sad is that? That her mother knows that necklace is somewhere buried. Yeah. Like that kills me. So what they say either way, what they said was that they went, they watched a movie, they had sex, they drank a bottle of wine, and then they went to sleep because it was a success. That is always so shocking to me that people just do this and then go about their regular

like day to day. Exactly. It's insane. Now, like I said, Myra, like the lying sack of shit, said at one point that, and it's like, why would you even say this? Like she's trying, now she's trying to sound evil. It's like she wants to sound innocent, but also evil. Because she can't decide.

So Myra said at one point that when they were going back to the house that night that they saw Pauline's mother looking for her. Uh-huh. Now Ian said that's a lie and in the book Return to Hell by Robert Wilson, he's a journalist. Yeah. Pauline's brother Paul said he saw Myra on Charmer Street at 9 45 p.m. that night as he returned home from being out at the movies that night yeah so at that point the mom wasn't out looking at but in paul saw myra myra didn't see paul right so it just became like a totally different story stupid and i guess paul said like when he got home that's when his mom was like pauline isn't home yet and that's when they went out okay so now myra claims that she was not

into it at all and that if Ian said that, so Ian said that if she backed out of this whole thing, like if she decided to go to the police or decided she didn't want to do this again, that he was going to put her in the same grave as Pauline. Okay. He denies this. And again... Well, I don't think she ever said she didn't want to do it because the whole thing is she's

the one that picked Pauline. Exactly. And he's, he had resigned himself like i'm gonna be in prison forever so right he held on to a lot of shit yeah but it was mostly just to spite other people it wasn't to save his own ass yeah it was more to like be even more evil to the victim's family he wanted to look as evil as humanly possible so i do believe him on that one i would say um just but the fact that she tries to manipulate everybody. According to Myra's side of the story, Ian had arrived at the Moors before them, like had arrived there and then her and Pauline got there.

OK, so this is Myra saying and she's saying that he took pauline all by himself to the location they scouted yeah and myra said she just sat at the car innocently until ian came back and knocked on the window to tell her that he needed help moving pauline's body okay so she had nothing nothing to do with it no she didn't even know what happened because then it's like oh no she's dead now because then he would have taken the necklace and he wrote down that he wasn't going to take the necklace and i just i don't believe that he would have taken anything and it's just his version of the story is very like cut and dry he's just like yeah we had a plan we made a sign for each other one of us would grab her the other one holds her down we did it and she's like no i didn't have anything to do i don't believe that and it's like oh honey stop you're both hers is just so like that no detail i had nothing to do right and when

every single time she tells her side of the story she also never heard anything she never saw anything she never heard anything right that doesn't make any sense and it just doesn't make sense um so both of their stories do say that she was because she she said, when I saw her, she was almost decapitated. That's how deep she was cut. Yeah. This is true. Because the pathologist who autopsied her later said that the second cut severed her spinal cord. That's how deep.

So to, she also said, and it's like, this is why she's just, she goes back and forth. To Inspector Tyrell, who was on the case during her confession myra said quote i made all of my own decisions people go through several stages in their life after discussions they change their mind ian never made me do anything i didn't want to do all that killing is bloody rubbish okay so he didn't kill her then so he's saying no she's he's she's saying i whatever happened i did it because i wanted to ian didn't make her then? So he's saying, no, she's saying, whatever happened, I did it because I wanted to. Ian didn't make me do it. But then later she's like, Ian made me

do everything. Right, that doesn't make any sense. And then the other story she spends is, I didn't do anything. So it's like, which one is it, honey? Yeah, she's annoying. Yeah. So the news of Pauline missing went everywhere, real quick. A 16-year-old girl on her way to a dance. Yeah, it's in all the papers. Police are going door to door searching. Her family's going door to door

searching. I mean, they're interviewing everyone. Police were completely stumped. They had no evidence because they did do their due diligence. And at that point, did they have a body? No, they didn't have a body. And they didn't have bodies until a long time for these kids. Did it take getting Ian and Myra to get a body? Yeah, right. And a neighbor, or neighbors around them, started freaking out because they were like, we all know each other. Yeah.

Who did this? Someone took this girl. Because the other thing was, her family, of course, they're going to say, did she run away? And then all these things start of, was she pregnant? Did she have a boyfriend? This and that. And her family was course they're gonna say like did she run away and then all these things start of like was she pregnant did she have a boyfriend this and that and her family was like no she would never have run away like we know her this is not something she would have done right and the neighbors all knew that too so now they're going who took her like someone took her yeah like that's what's going on right now so weeks, the newspapers reported about her disappearance. They drained canals. Joan was speaking out several times, like a week. She was, you know, trying to say if her daughter came home that she wouldn't be in trouble. Like she was trying to hold out hope. Like if

you're, if you think you did something wrong, like you can come home. It's okay. Yeah. Her parents just did not, they didn't rely just on the police to search or investigate. They were out searching every day. Her mother, Joan, especially, would take the bus to, like, other towns, go door to door. I can't imagine that. Like, would not stop. They never gave up hope. And her mother, Joan, said, quote, It was just one living in hope all the time, thinking she'd come home.

I was sat with my coat on for about three months waiting for daylight to come to run out to see if I could find her. I was just crying and crying and thinking about what had happened in my mind and I kept thinking about it. It built up and built up and I think that's what caused it my nervous breakdown. Of course she had a nervous breakdown. Because she ended up having to enter a psychiatric facility at one point. Obviously. Because she just had a complete breakdown. That's her only daughter. Obviously. Because she just had a complete breakdown. That's her only daughter. Yeah.

And then she also, another quote by her, just to show, because what we see is that they don't, the consequences of these murders is so far reaching in these families. It's so sad. She said, I was always looking. I even did an Avon job going house to house thinking I'd find her in one of the houses. Like the makeup? Yeah. I went miles on my own traveling on buses and everything thinking if I'd seen her on a bus and I'd be running after that bus.

I never thought that Myra Hindley and Ian Brady had something to do with it all because her sister was a near neighbor, lived next door, but with one Maureen. She went visiting there. Myra Hindley was talking to me normally and saying she was sorry about Pauline. That's so fucked up. Knowing she had done that, I don't think, I don't, I didn't think till after it all came back to me. What is what? So now that also goes against Myra's, I didn't, I thought it was horrible and I didn't want to do it anymore and he told me he'd put me in the same grave as Pauline really because you're going up to her grieving mother and saying how sorry you are knowing that you guys killed her right like you're an evil son

of a bitch some kind of thrill from that so don't pretend that you didn't enjoy all of that so meanwhile the next morning Ian had seen that he had like blood on his collar and so, because apparently that was the one thing that he didn't think of. It was the one, it was like his coat collar. That you're going to get blowback when you stab somebody. Exactly. And like a carotid artery. Yeah. I mean, come on.

And so he ended up taking the coat to the dry cleaners. And they used the alias Kennedy because of the president of the United States at the time. It's random. Isn't that a weird fact? I just had to put that in there. That is weird. A lot like centers around when like Kennedy was shot and stuff too because it's the same time. It's the time, yeah. Ian soon, soon after this, Ian gave Myra a record and the record was the theme song of a movie called The Legion's Last Patrol in the UK. My favorite movie. Yeah.

And so he gave her this. And what it was was an anniversary present, he called it. And she was like, what anniversary? And he was like, the anniversary of our first perfect murder. Ew, what the fuck? And what they did was they would also hum this song to each other when they wanted to remember it. Ew, what the fuck? Yep. And this became a theme. He would buy her a record for every murder and then they would hum that that song to each

other when they wanted to bring that murder back up okay yep so then during this time something crazy i had no idea that this happened in their relationship it's just a weird thing myra started dating and sleeping with a cop oh i feel like she's just like actively trying to fuck this exactly and i don't know there's several different stories about how they got together so i'm not even going to spin them because they had an open relationship though right they did but ian was pretty pissed that she was sleeping with a cop he was not happy about yeah do you think he would have cared if it wasn't a cop i don't know i because i feel like he would want control i think he wanted the open relationship because he wanted to do what he wanted to do but

he probably didn't want her to i feel like a lot of times that's what happens when dudes want open relationships and this cop was also married good and this was after pauline's murder and this cop spent time in myra's home that's where they had gotten rid of evidence in the fireplace yeah so this dude's sitting there probably actively like knows about all of this well yeah and because ian and myra didn't live together right they kind of did they didn't officially live together they would like go back and forth between houses so at this point they hadn't like actually got a place together um so apparently ian according to myra ian got pissed when he found out she was sleeping with him yeah and but then the cop actually did say that he showed up once ian showed up when they

were together uh and was like you need to back the fuck off like was like threatening him like later so yeah that seems to check out. I mean, I get that. Like, I believe it. So, Myra did break it off eventually with this cop, but she later said that if she had met the cop before Ian, then she would have married and had children with him. Like, she said she was literally falling in love with this cop.

What? Who they were both in relationships. Like, they were having an affair. You would have had children with them. You would have had children. Instead of killing children. This is how fucked up they both are. Well, in her head, I'm just like, what goes on up there, girl? So this is November 1963.

And now Myra has become, she needs guns. Because Ian wants guns. And Ian can't get guns. Because he has a criminal record. So he was like, you need to get guns. So she starts like talking to people at work who go to gun clubs and stuff and they help her out picking stuff out yeah she got a webley or weebly 45 revolver i'm sorry i'm sure somebody's gonna get mad at me about that

i literally i've never heard of that though it's a revolver we don't know guns she also bought a smith and wesson when we know that. And a rifle. A what? A rifle. I'm kidding. I was kidding. I was like, a rifle. What's that? I was just like, oh, you know.

So they did target practice on the Moors with like tin cans and targets and stuff. This shit is a fucking movie, I'm telling you. What's weird is they like don't use them. Like they don't shoot people. Oh, that's weird. So it's just a hobby, I guess. So I feel like it's kind of like a Bonnie and Clyde thing. They just thought it was cool to have guns. I don't even know. Like, because they don't use them. Well, some people just like to

collect them, I guess. Yeah. But like, he was like, we need guns now. And then they just never, like, why? They probably just like decided against it for some reason or another. Yeah, it's loud. Yeah, exactly. So according, this is when like according to myra he became like really abusive and started like scaring her with the guns would like point them at her i do kind of totally believe that he probably did that yeah and then at one point she says that like i think she pointed a gun at him and he was like what the fuck and he was like actually terrified and she was like how does it fucking feel and i was like all right is there a movie about like this there is actually there is a couple movies i'll mention it at the end of the

third one but yeah there's a couple movies because there needs to be i hate to say it would like make like all of this just sounds like a movie anyway i'm like i want to like watch this it's fascinating yeah i know that sounds like the child murder part is i don't want to watch but no and i didn't mean that they're weird relationships yes exactly yeah it's very weird so this is when they decide The child murder part is, I don't want to watch. No, and I didn't mean that. I want to watch their weird relationship. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's very weird. So this is when they decide we want to kill again. Ian says that Myra came up with it.

Myra says that Ian comes up with it. So take that as a grain of salt. I'm sure they probably just both wanted to do it. Exactly. Or stick a hum in the same damn song. They both were laying in bed. They were like, let's fucking kill another kid. That's what happened.

They had just aggressively knocked out each other's teeth. And they were like, OK. Yeah. And like, you know, just so this doesn't come out of nowhere, in part one, we mentioned this. Maybe she stuck a candle up his butt. I don't know. Yeah.

I don't know. You know? You don't know. Because if you didn't listen to part one, you'll be like, excuse me? What now? You should have listened to part one, though. What now? Yeah, listen to part one.

So, yeah. So they want to kill someone again. You should have listened to part one. What now? Yeah, listen to part one. So, yeah. So they want to kill someone again. And Myra said that Ian told her that, you know, you're the one who's going to lure this child in.

That's your job. Yeah, this is the whole thing. And he also said that he was like, this time you're going to lure in. I'll come after. And he said, I want a child this time. Gross. And he said, Pauline fought and struggled a lot and he,

and it was hard to hold her down. Right. So she was like, because she was 16 and older and more aware. And he was like,

I don't want that anymore. I want someone that I can literally just take complete control of. And I, and he also was a disgusting pedophile. I was going to say.

So he just wanted a child. Ew. Because Ian Brady was a fucking pedophile yeah so is myra hindley they both are so i mean because it's easy to forget that like not only are they brutal fucking murders they're pedophiles like it's disgusting so yeah so he was like i want a child to make sure you find me one ew saturday november 23rd They had a plan. They were going to pick a victim. Hindley lures them in. She drives to the moor, lets the victim go with Brady into the moors to find that

glove. And she would leave. She was going to leave and go around the other side of the moors with whatever car she was in. I believe it's like Greenfield is where the entrance to the moors is. Okay. And there she was going to take the rifle that would be in the back and she was going to put it on the front passenger seat. She never explains why because they don't use it. Is it just supposed to be a scary thing? I'm not really sure because whoever was going to be dead before, like no one was coming back in the car. So I don't really know. That's weird.

But then after 30 minutes, she was going to drive back around to where she dropped them off. And then she was going to flash her headlights three times. And then if everything was cool and going according to plan in the Moors, Ian was going to flash a flashlight three times back at her. Okay. So that was their plan. Very intricate. Exactly.

So they planned this time to find their victim at Ashton Underline. Yeah. Which had a huge market on the weekends. One thing says that they did this because of that market and they knew they'd be able to find a kid there. That was probably unattended and there's a lot of people. They wouldn't notice. And then a couple of other sources say that they just happened upon this giant market. So whatever. Maybe it's a little bit of both. Yeah, could be a little bit. They happened upon it and then they were like, oh, perfect.

So Hindley got to rent a car for this occasion because she gave the van back to the neighbor. I feel like that's not a good idea. No. And picked up Ian at his home. He had another anniversary gift in honor of their next, their second murder. What if it doesn't work? And it was a record and it was 24 Hours from Tulsa by Jane Pitney, I think it is. Sorry to ruin all these songs for you if you like them.

I know, I'm really sorry. Again, whenever they hummed it around each other, it was a little subtle nod to the murder because they wanted to relive it. Yeah, totally. Now, and it sounds like Myra's very against this and scared, huh? Super. Yeah, no.

So they drove to the lake in Staffordshire and they hung out there, they hiked, they had a day of it they made it like a couple's thing then they drove to Huddersfield and Myra put on a disguise she wore a black wig that almost looked like her sister's hair oh which I'm like were you trying to like implicate yourself because you look just like her uh but yeah so he put she put on the black hair she put on like a head scarf and like sunglasses so it really didn't look like her and then she went into a store she purchased a shovel a knife

and some rope and cord just casual purchases can you imagine going in there dressed like that and being like i'd like a shovel a knife and some cord please like if you're gonna get those things maybe go to different stores also maybe throw in like an air freshener like no that would look even worse i was gonna say what i don't know why that was the first thing that came to mind but maybe throw in like yeah like a gatorade refreshment like something that doesn't scream like i'm about to murder someone yeah yeah i don't know but apparently they didn't care so then they went back to manchester and they went to see with to russia with love which was a 007 movie. Awesome.

They did this for an alibi. Of course. You need the stub. Because they weren't just going to see the movie. Come on. You'll remember that you did that. Then they both went home. Oh.

And then around 4 p.m. Because again, they needed that alibi. They went home. And then 4 p.m. They get back together. They get in the rent-a-car again. They put plastic sheet in the trunk. Oh.

And they also put the shovel, the rifle, and a flashlight on the plastic sheet. Okay. Myra's wearing the disguise because we're being theatrical now. Duh. They drove to Ashton-under-Lyne, and within minutes, Ian was like, I see someone. So he immediately was like, I see a boy alone and I want him. And so they walked around and they were acting like this, like, very normal couple. Yeah.

Like, looking at things and holding hands. Going to a fair. You know, just looking around the market. The boy they chose was John Kilbride. John was 12 years old and lived in Ashton-under-Lyne. He was unbelievably adorable. Like, the picture of him just melts your brain. He had huge eyes, this, like, gap in his front teeth.

And it's like a face you just want to, like, protect. Like, you're like, let me just help you. And he looked so innocent and childlike. He really did. His parents were Sheila and Patrick Kilbride. He had six younger siblings. He took care of his younger siblings very happily uh he seemed to take pride in helping people especially his own family oh he was known as a super sweet kid he was always singing to himself um he would often

help his grandmother out around the house and in her yard because she was sick just fuck me up why don't you, he was very close with his younger brother, Danny, who was only younger by a year. So they were pretty close in age. Yeah. Danny later said he never stopped making sure, like, and he didn't, he never stopped making sure that Myra Hindley would stay locked up forever. Good. Because obviously Ian Brady wasn't going anywhere. Like, no one needed to fight to keep him in prison. Yeah, he already had, like, so much against him. Myra was the one a lot of people needed to fight to keep in prison because she was trying to get out that's so awful that you lose somebody and then on top of that the rest of your days you're making sure that this

bitch stays where she is you have to relive it relive it relive it and you just have to like constantly be fighting and seeing this piece of shit that well you're just in a constant state of remembering what happened and just shit um so John Kilbride attended Catholic school at St. Damien's Secondary School. He was very popular. He had a ton of friends. He loved, and in fact, he was very well loved in that school because when he went missing, they, every day, like the head, like the principal or headmaster, I'm not really sure how it is in a Catholic school.

I think it's a headmaster. head like the principal or headmaster sure i'm not really sure how it is in a catholic school i think it's a headmaster they would come over the thing and say let's all say a prayer for um john kilbride but while he was missing yeah um he loved soccer or football as it's known there which honestly makes much more sense by the way united like we we football makes sense i got so many messages that were like yeah man united yeah and then you got some that were like no i actually didn't get any i saw them over there don't worry i saved you from them it's all the people that like arsenal yeah and he loved movies he was always going to the movies this is just we gotta talk about yeah duh you gotta know who john was

humanize the victim yeah and it's like he deserves to be known. So in fact he was at the movies with some friends before going to the market that day and they had all, and it was actually him and like two or three friends who were also named John. So it was just like John, John, John, John. And I think John Mulaney has a skit about that actually that he had like three friends named John.

So what they were going to do was they were going to go to the market and they would do this a lot. They would go and offer the shopkeepers like, well, we'll help out. And the shopkeepers would give them tips or they give them food or just like it was just something to do. Yeah. Which like how wholesome. It's also like the 60s.

Like what the fuck else are you going to do? So wholesome. Like so wholesome. Helpful, cute, adorable. When he went missing that day, he was wearing a white shirt. He was wearing black chisel toed shoes. I'm not really sure what those are. Let us know. That's what they were described as. He was also wearing gray flannel pants. Under his shirt, he was wearing his father's old vest, which his mom had like sewed to fit him. Why is this like everybody's wearing something of their parents? It's it's i know it's too much yeah

that's heart-wrenching he was also wearing a jacket with football shaped buttons which is such a little kid yeah that reminds me of like our little nugget i know it's like just oh i'm talking about like alina's nephew and my cousin i know i can't it's like i it does it reminds me of that now ian led myra over to john who eating, like, a biscuit that was given to him for helping one of the shopkeepers. He was alone. And she walked up to him and she said something about, like, oh, why are you out so late? Like, for such a young lad, like, kind of thing. Like, she was trying to be, like, twatty.

And they got his name. They got, like, you know, where he was from. Like, they just chatted him up. Right. You know, gaining his name. They got like, you know, where he was from. Like they just chatted him up. Right. You know, gaining his trust. And then Ian said something about, you know, we're parents ourselves. And I would be worried sick if my child was out alone at the, you know, they're probably worried about you. And it was 5.30 p.m.

It wasn't like 3.10. But they were like, you know what? We'll drive you home. And he was like, okay. Because he cared about his parents. And he was like, like yeah i don't want to make him right yeah so the way that they were able to get him to the moors without him being like uh i don't live there yeah was on the way there ian was like oh we have a bottle of sherry at home and he was like and if you help us find this glove that is just so special to myra on the moors

we'll give you this bottle of sherry to bring home to your parents as like a thank you yeah and john was like great so he'll help you and then my parents will get something out of it exactly and he was like we live by the moors so this is perfect like this is what ian said he was like oh we live by the moors so we'll go find the the glove. Then I'll bring you to our house, get the sherry, and we'll drive you home. Okay. So he's like, great. So, yeah. So when they get closer, Ian's like, all right, why don't we stop and find that glove?

Yeah. And he's like, all right, cool. So he did say, Ian Brady says that John was nervous. And he could tell he was starting to put the pieces together. And it's like you just picture this child understanding all of a sudden like something bad is going to happen. You just get a bad feeling. And that like really that like gets me to think about.

And I'm sure Ian loved it. I was going to say that. He loves saying that. And that's the thing. He loves saying these things because he wants family to hear that and know it. in U.S. history. Presidential lies, corruption in sports, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we go to Baltimore, where in the spring of 2017, a police corruption scandal shocked the city. At the heart of it was an elite plainclothes unit called the Gun Trace Task Force. It was supposed to be the Baltimore Police Department's best of the best, a group of highly decorated

detectives who excelled at getting drugs and guns off the streets. But they operated with little oversight, creating an environment where criminal cops could flourish by falsifying evidence and robbing suspects. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge American Scandal Police Corruption in Baltimore early and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus. Now, Ian had the flashlight in his pocket and he also had the knife, or he had the flashlight and he also had the knife and the cord in his pocket. Okay.

At Saddleworth Moor, they parked and Ian was like, all right, come with me. We'll go find the glove. Myra says that the two of them left together into the moors. She did her part of the deal. She had lured him in, so she was done. That's what Myra says. Now what does Ian say?

Well, and she said she went to the entrance. She moved the rifle. She waited 30 minutes. Drove back around where they dropped him off. Flashed the headlights three times. She got three flashlights back. Yeah. So she was like, good to go.

Bye. Then Ian comes to the car out of breath and she said he's holding a small boy's shoe in his hand yeah and he was like what the she was like why are you holding that shoe and he was like oh after i buried him i guess i forgot this like he struggled so it must have just fallen off like Like, it's just, what? So he told her, you know, he had sexually assaulted John, and then he said, I tried to slice his throat, but the knife was too dull, so it wouldn't slice him properly. Yeah. So he said, thankfully, I had this cord in my pocket, and I strangled him with it. Okay. Now, Ian's version is different. He says the three of them went into the Moors,

and further says Myra is a liar because he said that whole thing about the rifle, which doesn't even make sense, he goes, we didn't purchase that rifle until a year later. Oh, okay, great. And then he was like, you can even look at the receipts and they did and it's true. Right. So he was like, well, he's like, I don't even know why she lied about that. It's also just like a weird ass thing to lie about that made no sense whatsoever he said again john definitely knew what was up and he said it was getting dark no one was answering anything that he was asking so he could tell like because he was like why are we doing this it's dark we're not going to find

this glove like that kind of thing so he said he had to give myra the groucho thing three different times before myra got the message like oh that sucks like he says it like you know I had to give her it three times before we murdered this kid it's like god damn it I'm so sorry though that was hard for you I'm so sorry you were so inconvenienced by her hesitance Jesus that's like Jesus so he did that she finally got the hint and he says the two of them took John to the ground. He said he fought a ton. Yeah. Ian raped him and then strangled him while Myra held him down. So he's implicating Myra the entire time. Ian himself said after he killed John, he slapped John in the back after he put him in the grave and then looked up at the sky and said, take that, you bastard. Like what? And then later he explained that,

because people are like, what does that mean? And he said, this was my gesture in the face of whatever malignant force it is, which underlines the universe, devoted only to chaos. So this was him being like, take that, you bastard, whatever, like, God is up there. Like, you don't even believe in God, according to you. Well, that's why he said, whatever malignant force

in the universe is doing that. And it's you're disgusting like what is wrong with you i also think he thought that was cool you 100 he did and that's why he's disgusting because i'm like first of all do i believe he did it maybe because he's weird and theatrical yes i agree i think he is so psyched to be able to tell that story like he was like and then i shook my fist at the sky and i said take that you bastard like he's so happy to be able to tell that stupid this dude is such he's so lame going back to like myra like saying that she didn't do anything i also think obviously she i feel as though she had to be there because the fact that she has to hold them down makes sense because i feel like then ian would have been covered in like scratches or like

stuff like that exactly for the people that fought there's no way he would have gotten out of that without getting because he says he readily admits all they all fought back yeah like pauline gave him a lot of trouble typically rape victims do fight back obviously and it's like because it's just human nature you're gonna try to get out from under the person who's trying to hold you down especially i just think they she just had to be there she had to be there she did and this whole like groucho thing that he keeps saying it makes sense yeah everything that he's saying makes sense yeah she's just trying to keep she wanted to get parole that's all this is her whole thing was trying to get out of prison that's

all she wanted i think she would have done horrific things had she gotten out of oh yeah she would have she definitely she wouldn't have just found that cop and had kids she would have horrific shit she would have done terrible shit now they drove back to gordon and uh they went to myra's house and they did the same like forensic cleanup that they did the first time yeah john's family at this point is panicked yeah because he's never late and you just think of them panicking at this point and what they don't know is that he's already gone and buried in the moors that's like horrific his younger brother danny uh the one that he was so close to that was like a year apart he went door to door and was asking people where he was um sheila his mother

got upset around like 9 p.m and she was like we gotta call the police like this i can't wait any longer he's 12 they were so a huge a massive search started like massive they asked all the shopkeepers at the market if they had seen him like they got a little bit they got over 700 statements from that wow uh they were missing posters everywhere um the parents went everywhere searching the same thing as pauline's parents they went everywhere they were asking everyone about him monday morning the manchester evening news posted the first big article about it myra and ian were absolutely psyched about this because everyone in their office was talking about it on monday morning like all their co-workers were like holy shit do you see this and they were like

we did actually yeah and they're feeling great about it and Ian later said the audience is the value and quality of the act it makes sense unfortunately which is like oh so you're BTK yeah you wanted you loved the like audience yeah and if nobody was talking about it he would have shit his pants about it. And, like, written into newspapers. Like, he would have whined and cried about it. Yeah, exactly. Also, I love water.

Also, Water TM. Wednesday, that Wednesday, they returned to John and Pauline's burial sites on the Moors because they would do, they called it, like, reconnaissance, which was just them going back to the burial sites and making sure that they weren would do they called it like reconnaissance which was just them going back to the burial sites and making sure that they weren't like disturbed okay and it was just them wanting to keep reliving it yeah it's for them but they made it some like like they nerd out and they're like it's a reconnaissance my son and it's like no you're just going back to the place you murder people that's you're just reliving that's just serial killer shit like just call it what it is so then the search for john is widening to i mean hundreds of volunteers and his mother this is gonna hurt

your heart great his mother continued to make dinner for him every night and set up a spot for him just in case he came home yep oh my god doesn't that just kill you yes so soon the news reported that the search was getting closer to the moors yeah and myra starts getting nervous because she was like shit and ian's under the impression because of course he's smarter than everybody i don't know if you know this obviously but he's smarter than everybody and he was like they're just working off of like they're just guessing and the moors are just there so he's just they're just guessing oh okay so it's like okay keep thinking that so sunday december 1st 2 000 volunteers were out searching whoa and a local businessman offered a hundred pound reward for any information on finding him and it was later reported that 2 000 volunteer search they said

it was the biggest search for any missing person before this. Oh my God. So John was very missed. Yes, obviously. They brought in a psychic at one point because, I mean, it happens. Like they do. You gotta get into it, yeah. And the psychic was used basically

out of, you know, desperation. And they said, the psychic said they saw John, quote, some way down a slope with the skyline completely barren and not a tree in sight a main road on the right and quite as quite near a stream this is remarkably i was gonna say that's

not wrong no and it's like and i think they even brought this to ian later like i think that dr allen uh keighley did and he was like what do you make of that that like they were kind of on the nose did he believe he was like he was like that's weird they're on the nose but i think it's just them like just they can draw anything out of anything yeah like he didn't believe it i don't you know i don't know what i believe but that's very that's very interesting yeah i will give it but meanwhile ian and myra are now visiting the moors very often just to check, make sure nothing's disturbed, and just take it in. They spend lots of time there. They're often also sat on a street near John's home

and watched the family home together. Cute. And they just said that they imagined what chaos the family was living through hour by hour, not knowing where he was. They are monsters. There's no words for what they go so beyond they even go beyond paul and fucking carla because they they get so much enjoyment out of the chaos that they cause in these people's lives like by taking their children they follow up on it yeah

and they they marinate in it they really do they they bask in it yeah it's unbelievable um and john's brother terry said quote my mother always used to be singing when she was cooking or ironing but that just stopped everything stopped that's awful so sad so new year's of that year 1963 they went to the moors they raised a glass of whiskey and they yelled to john ew that i can't stress enough how fucking evil these two are right and they admit that readily like yep that's what we did so ew yeah it's unbelievable now it was in february of the next year i believe february or march that's when they did the first of the pictures on the burial sites that they took okay Okay. They had a dog named Puppet mentioned in the first episode.

And they were like, you know what, let's go to the Moors and we're going to take pictures on the burial sites so we can remember them. Yeah. And what Myra said, that was Ian liked putting these pictures

into regular photo albums with just regular photos. I believe that. And he said then family and friends would be flipping through it and they'd have no idea what they were looking at. And it like gave him some kind of jolt. I 100% believe that. That's like textbook Ian. Yes, that is. That's so Ian. So Ian. So they got a new car eventually. I think it was like a two-door station wagon. And in May 15th, 1964, was John's birthday, his 13th birthday.

His mother bought him presents, bought a card. And the card, I don't have the exact thing she wrote, but she basically wrote, if you are home on this day, like, I love you and I missed you, basically. Oh, my God. But bought him presents, wrapped them all, like, waited for him. Just in case he came back. Yeah. Like, it kills my heart.

The things they did to these families probably too almost like a like a thing for her where like she needed to go out and do that yeah like almost pretend like he's still there and he's gonna open these presents and this is what we do on his birthday because that exact because that's what you do on that day right so it's like we are just gonna do what we do yeah like we're not if we don't and part of her probably thought if i don't get these presents it's accepting that maybe yeah maybe he won't come home but if i buy them maybe he'll come home right you know oh it just kills me it's like a mother's brain works so differently it really does it's just like oh so june 16th 1964 um henley went to get ian i know i keep i keep forgetting like if i'm calling them hindley or myra i mean it doesn't matter we all know i feel bad though i'm like probably skipping around

but i write it differently every time okay so myra i'm just gonna stick with myra went to get ian in the new station wagon she was dressed in the disguise she wears yeah uh she picked him up at 7 30 p.m. and they almost immediately saw a group of children. Oh good. Now before this car ride they had decided they were excited they wanted to do it again. Oh. And this was not that long after John. Right. So their cooling off period is starting to get smaller and smaller. And one boy was alone. And Ian was like, that's our next victim. That boy was Keith Bennett. Okay.

Now, before they did this, Ian made sure to give Myra another gift. Another anniversary gift. A record. And it was Roy Orbison's It's Over record. And again, they would hum it to each other when they wanted to remember this. Because remember, they are evil as fuck now keith really this one like hurts me because you'll find out so keith was barely 12 years old he like just turned 12 i was like 11 but you're like no he's 12 basically he was just 11 like a few days earlier keith was wearing a t-shirt. He was wearing black shoes, a white leather zip-up

jacket over blue jeans when he was gone. Stop. So cute. He was stupid precious. I mean, the photo of him, you're just like, oh, like this just snuggle little chipmunk of a baby. I feel like I don't even want to see them because it's going to ruin me further. Yeah. he was small for his age he had glasses um he had like a big smile like oh his stepsister susan was his best friend his younger sister who was three years old was obsessed with him followed him everywhere stop that's when it gets too real it does he was one of six kids he lived with his mother winnie and his father his stepfather, Jimmy. He had a very good relationship with his stepfather. Very good relationship with his step-siblings. He loved playing football.

He loved nature. He would bring back little bugs and stuff to show his parents. He loved collecting coins. And he was just an adorable little muffin. The night he was abducted, his mother was going to be going to bingo. And his mother was seven months pregnant going to bingo and his mother was seven months pregnant by the way oh god and went into premature labor after he went missing obviously the baby ended up being okay but like that was from stress because you're i was gonna say your

body was so stressed yeah and mine so that night her his mother was going to be going to bingo and so she was going to bring the kids to the grandparents house the grandmother's house yeah for the night and she did this like every now and then yeah and then the grandmother would walk them all home the next day it was just the thing they did so on the way to dropping him off on the way like all the kids are going with the mom and keith sees some friends from school and he's like i want to go play with them and she's like cool you can go play with them it's the 60s go right exactly you can just just walk because the grandmother didn't live far away at all so she was like just make sure you head back there so he was like cool so the last she saw of him he had run across the street turned around and waved to

her oh my god and that's the last thing she saw that's fucked up now in myra's version of events myra pulled up next to keith and asked him if he wanted to help her and ian load some boxes into her car she said keith hesitated but then got into the passenger seat because Ian was in the back. So she starts driving and then Ian made Myra stop and ask Keith to come in the back seat with him. So he gets in the back seat and that's when Ian's like, listen, Myra lost a glove and goes through that whole spiel.

And he's like, she's so sad about it. And like, you seem like a really good kid like do you want to help me find it jesus christ and he was like evil son of a bitch i know i've heard this story three times he is though he is though he said sure they went to the moors where he got out with keith on the pretense of looking for the glove now in ian's version he was waiting on a totally different street and Myra did the scooping and then picked him up. He wasn't even in the car.

Yeah. He was like, I was not in the backseat. Like, it was just Myra picking him up. Well, you would also think that Keith would think that was weird. Exactly. Like, why is he in the backseat? Doesn't make any sense. And like, why do you need me to help you?

Because when you said that, I was like, what? Exactly. So he's like, no, I was on a different street. Myra lured him in, got him in the car, came to the street and picked me up. Myra sounds like a dumbass. She really is. I'm like, do you think that any of what you're saying makes any sense? No.

I think she does. She's like, absolutely. Everybody should believe me. Okay. Well, in Myra's version, what happened next was Myra followed them. She sat down, like, into the moors. Yeah. She sat down somewhere after ian told

her to stop and waited for about 40 minutes she said she didn't hear or see anything of course not when ian came back after 40 minutes he was dirty out of breath and he was like i strangled keith with the cord or the rope and you know i raped him as well and he said that this time though he was like i took a picture of him after I murdered him before I buried him. Yeah. And she was like, neat. So in Ian's version, they all went together three miles into the moor. Yeah. Away from the car, away from the road, and that he said, again, Keith was very nervous, and Keith was nervous that his grandmother would be concerned about him not getting there until late.

Oh my God. And he said Myra kept telling him, you'll be home soon. Don't worry. That's so fucked. Myra was holding the shovel and the rifle and I believe they said it was covered in like plastic. So you can tell what it was. And Ian said the sign was for him.

Now this is fucked up. Ian says the sign to like, we're take him down the grouch was that he would start whistling when you wish upon a star are you fucking kidding me nope and that was when they were supposed to attack him and basically the same thing happened to keith that happened to john yeah initially um brady grabbed him by the throat myra held him down he was sexually assaulted and strangled but he was strangled by Ian's bare hands, according to Ian. Wow.

And he said, while I was strangling him, Myra was holding him down. Yeah. Obviously, because she would need to. You do. She was there. You would definitely need to. They buried him together, according to him, and Ian said he put a large boulder where his grave was.

To come back to it. Yeah. Now, the thing I said earlier about how this one really gets to me is because Keith is the only one who has never been found. Never? He is still not found to this day.

And we will get into it in part three how fucked up Ian Brady is because he refused. I mean, Myra did too. But Ian really refused till the last second. Like the last second he was like, you're never going to find out. Well, Myra wasn't there.

No, she wasn't there. So she wouldn't know. Now, he hasn't been found. And Ian said that he was surprised that police metal detectors haven't located him yet. Because he said that metal zipper on his jacket. But it might have just been carried away by animals i don't know no he was buried i don't know he's buried feet under the ground like he's in there somewhere he can be found why can't they just dig up the whole moors until they find the moors are

unbelievably gigantic really on but this is why they chose them it would honestly i don't think you could ever look everywhere you would you could know i mean you could lose someone in a minute there that's awful and he knows that but he but and for him to say i'm surprised the police haven't you know used medical metal detectors and found that zipper it's like that's just another like fuck you to his family right it just oh i'm like you're so gross now his mother keith's mother when he died in 2012 at 78 years old oh my god she went like her whole life wondering never knowing where he was and she i mean she knew he was in the moors but she was like nowhere and she was buried with keith's glasses which he had broken earlier that week and she had intended to fix

them the day he went missing so she was buried with the broken glasses that just made me get that lump in my throat before she passed away she said, I need my Keith to be returned from those bleak, cold, and windy moors that look down on me from almost everywhere I turn in my hometown of Manchester. My heart is torn from me. Whew. And it just like... I just got like a... Like that brought a big gulp to me.

Yeah. Yeah, so that's really sad. And she... It sucks. Because that's your baby that's your baby and like like you're like like she said like cold and she knows that he's alone out there and just you picture her like going anywhere and she's like oh they're just they're just right there they're just there i can't imagine i can't imagine i really can't so like i had said earlier they bought new shovels each time that they did this.

And they would bury the shovels out on the moors. They did the same after murder checklist. Get rid of everything. Clean everything. They went through the same thing. Ian also created this time a dark room in Myra's home. Oh, for the photographs. Because he was like, now I want to take pictures.

So this is when he would start developing photos like the ones he took of Keith. But he said he destroyed that photo and it has never been found because he said that it was blurry. But he showed it to Myra first. And Myra said she never saw it. Sure. Of course not. Now, he went to the suitcases he had at the railway station to add things to them. And Myra said she has no idea what he added. Keith's grandmother didn't have a phone so she assumed when he didn't come that he was staying with his mom or at a friend's house. She just was like oh and she had no way of calling the mom to be like was he supposed to be here? Right. And so she just walked the rest of the kids home the next morning and his parents were like where's Keith? And she explained she was like oh he never came like I

thought he just wasn't coming no one else had seen him so they contacted the police and his siblings apparently were like a fucking mess they said his sisters cried themselves to sleep every night like wondering where he was like the out the far reachings of this the chaos and just calamity that this caused is so unbelievable yeah it's like unquantifiable that's just so sad his poor grandmother many lives felt so guilty right exactly and she herself his elderly sick grandmother would go to different towns she would bang on doors she would search like she took it upon herself to do it as well you know what i just thought of i feel like him making that comment about the zipper i almost wonder if they took off the zipper i wonder that too and they put it in that luggage luggage and

they're just being like i wonder why they didn't find that right because the police they knew the police would probably do that and they probably did do that and it feels like ian brady would think they could find this with the zipper so he he was probably like, oh, that's funny. I bet they took the jacket. That's a good point. That's a really good point. I guarantee you that's it. Yeah.

Well, Jimmy, the stepfather, and like John Kilbride's father, Patrick, both of them were questioned immediately. And rumors were flying that the both of them were involved in their kids. Well, and especially this guy, because he's the stepdad. Exactly. And they were like being super Exactly. And they were like being super cooperative and they were like, I just want to find him. But it was starting to like

wear on them. Like they were like, I'm being accused of killing or like doing something terrible to my child. So it was just breaking these families apart. And the search began. The media went bonkers again. People were going door to door. Police are going door to door. There's bloodhounds being

released everywhere they're dragging bodies of water they're looking in places he you know wanted to hang out like railroads and stuff because he like trains and he planned train tracks soon the parents of pauline uh joan and amos and john and john and keith's parents they all realized there's got to be a connection. A serial killer. And especially between John and Keith's disappearance. I don't think Pauline's was quite immediate that they were thinking of a connection, but they were like, John and Keith's have to be related.

And they're so close in time period. Exactly. So the mothers, Winnie and Sheila, they met to discuss this and the media actually took pictures of it and were like two grieving mothers get together together really sweet of them it's like cool they ended up meeting a couple of times after that like started like keeping up with each other and then joan pauline's mother joined as well and they like bonded together over this now one day a woman randomly walked up to winnie on the street and said you're keith's mom right and then told her he's been chopped up and fed to pigs. I literally hope that woman got chopped up and fed to pigs.

And she was like traumatized. Like when he was like, I felt like I was literally getting hit from all angles. Why would you ever do that to somebody? Like what a piece, another piece of shit just walking around. I hope you get hit by a car. And she said this is when she like started to lose hope. Yeah. Like she was like, I'm really starting to think that like he's just not coming home.

When you hear, and I'm sure she like obviously didn't have people walking up to her saying shit like that, but you hear town rumblings. You're like, and time starts to go by, you know. Exactly. Exactly. Now, Myra later said of these three children, John, Pauline, and Keith, that she's such a piece of shit. She later said that she likened them to lambs walking to the slaughter

of course she did that's what she said about these three little babies she said she would watch them walk behind ian and she would say they're like little lambs walking to the slaughter that's because she also said they all walked and she made sure to say this like this she was like they all walked to their own deaths they weren't dragged well no you kidnapped them their children and you preyed on their fucking trusting nature right you absolute piece of garbage they didn't walk into their own death you took them there like you it just it's it's just her being a cunt that's so like just they did it themselves yeah again just i'm not going to take responsibility. They came.

Right. And it's like, fuck off. So two months after they murdered Keith, Saturday, August 15th, 1964, Myra's little sister Maureen married her boyfriend, David Smith, who was 17 years old. She did. David Smith, would not too long after this, became the man who single-handedly stopped the Moores murderers. Oh, shit. But not before they claimed two more innocent lives in the process.

But her sister's husband is the one that stops them. Mm-hmm. And we're going to talk about that in part three. You asshole. Because honestly, I've actually, I'm like tapping out. The last two are doozies and we've already had three doozy i think we all need to take a little breather this whole damn thing is a doozy it's a lot for everybody to process it's a lot for me to talk about so we're gonna break

it right here and i think we're pretty good we're like almost two hours so i'd say this is a pretty good length and part three is going to be coming out on Saturday. So in two days. Yeah. So just look out for that. It will be on Saturday. And all of our episodes most of the time, like literally all of the time, come out at the end of the day.

Yeah. At the end of the day, Wednesday and Saturday. If it's going to be late a day, which we hope won't happen often, we will let you know. Yeah, we always do. But this one won't be late. Don't worry. It's coming on Saturday. But in that one, we're going to talk about the final two murders, which are real bad.

We're going to talk about David Smith and how he factors into this. I'm excited to hear about that. It's very interesting how they were arrested, the trial, how they fucked each other over after the trial, and all the way up until, you know, they both died. So, all right. Strap in. Guys, hope you handled that. I was going to say enjoyed that, but I hope you handled that. Yeah, I hope you handled that. While you're on Instagram decompressing, shoot us a follow. Yeah, at Morbid Podcast. You just burped a little. I hope you didn't hear that. That's fine. You can us on twitter at a morbid podcast and you can send us a gmail listener

tales case suggestions all of the above can be sent there morbid podcast at gmail.com we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you myra henley and like ann brady and sing horrible songs to each other you guys are the fucking worst yeah there's only so much you can say yeah no you guys they suck and they're getting flogged in hell by millipedes correct bye I love you. app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Academy is a new scripted podcast that follows Ava Richards, played by HBO's Industries' Myhala Herald, a brilliant scholarship student who has to quickly adapt to her newfound eat-or-be-eaten world.

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