Morbid - Episode 168: Ian Brady & Myra Hindley AKA The Moors Murderers Part 3

Episode Date: August 30, 2020

Oh man guys. Part 3 of the Moors Murderers is going to take years off your life or at least rob a small part of your soul. This week we cover the last two murders of Lesley Ann Downey and Edward Evans. Luckily this week we get the satisfaction of hearing how these two horrific beasts, Myra and Ian were brought to justice. Hold tight to those butts! Books Alaina read for the case: Ian Brady:The Untold Story of the Moors Murders By Dr. Alan Kneightly Evil Relations By David Smith & Carol Ann Lee Depraved: The Moors Murders By C.G.C. Cook The Monstering of Myra Hindley By Nina Wilde As always, thank you to our sponsors Caliper: Get 20% off your first order when use promo code MORBID at trycaliper.com/morbid  Hunt a killer: Go to huntakiller.com/morbid and use promo code MORBID at checkout for 20% off your first box See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey everyone, before we start this episode, I just wanted to clear something up really fast. During this episode at one point, I talk about Ian and Myra picking up one of their victims at a liquor store. I refer to the liquor store as a packy, P-A-C-K-Y, because in New England, especially Boston, that is slang for package store, a K-A liquor store, and it comes from the prohibition era. I promise you can ask any New Englander.

That's what it means. I wasn't referring to a person. I was referring to a building. That is very clear in how I say it. But I wanted to clear that up because I know words mean different things in different parts of the world, and I would never want anyone to think that. But I think we can look at the context that I used it in and know that that's I was referring to a building, and that if you know us, you know that we are not at all racist so I will never use that word again on the podcast because I don't want to confuse anybody but just know that new Englanders use weird words like bubbler for water fountain and you know package store or packy for liquor store.

So I'm very sorry if anybody was a little jarred by that word because they didn't know that we use it for that building. But just listen again and you will see I'm referring to the building, I am not referring to a person. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure that was clear because the last thing I would want to do was have our UK listeners think I'm a shipbag. So I promise you, that's what it means. I'm born and raised in Boston and that is just in my vernacular. So again, I will not use it on the pod

because now that I know that it's very jarring for our UK listeners and beyond to here and that it's different than what it means here, I will use it because why would I ever want to offend you guys? I just wanted to put that out there. So thanks for letting me know and thanks for educating me on that because it looks like none of us

knew what the other person called it or what it referred to in different parts of the world. So I think we all learned something here and I hope you enjoy the episode and it's a terrible one, but we'll get through it together. Again, was not referring to a person, New England slang, I'll even post a link to some articles in the show notes just to make it very clear. So on to the horrific tale of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, part three.

Hey, Weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is morbid. This is the morbidest of all. Guys, part three of the Moore's murders is going to be the worst one, I think, because guess what? It's not even over at part three. Elena has an announcement. Spoiler alert. There's gonna be four parts to this. We're gonna say that at the end.

No, I was gonna say it. It's not even a spoiler. Well, we're gonna have four parts because Let me let me say this first just in case everybody's like no, I'm not waiting for another part I'm going to give you your closure at the end of this. We're going to get to the sentencing. So I'm not going to leave you with some crazy cliffhanger that you're like, now I have to wait two days to hear it. Your closure is coming, but so much happened after the sentencing and after they were put in prison,

I feel I would be remiss not to do an entire episode on what happened after that. That would be very remiss of you. So think of the fourth episode as kind of like bonus information. It's not stuff that you're like real, it's like I'm not going to leave you on a cliffhanger so you feel like, you know, screwed at the end of this. In the fourth episode we'll be coming out on Wednesday because that's our release schedule. So Wednesday.

At the end of the day. Wednesday it will come out, I promise. On Wednesday. We release on Wednesday and Saturday. Wednesday Saturday. So it'll be their Wednesday. It's going to be, you know, part four will be part four will be a little more like it's it's it's yeah, it's not as heavy. We're not going to hear about any more murder. So it's like it's like, are we really just going to hear about like Ann and Myra arguing with each other over the to much and kind of like the crazy things that happen in prison with them so that'll be more of like a whoa okay so that's cool you know those whoa well I think we should start off with like a little bit of lighter news before we

really dive into the hellhole that we have to bring you up to crash you back down exactly if you don't have social media or you know, you're Ron Swanson and you're off the grid, it's okay. I'm ready. We get it. I'm gonna tell you right now, the exciting news that you may have missed. Are you ready?

We have partnered with like a merch team and we have new merch. We have actual merch. Actual merch. Like it's so exciting. Don't worry. We're still working with Murder Apparel. Murder Apparel is part of it. To so exciting don't worry we're still working with murder apparel. Yep, murder apparel is part of it. To this whole new thing that we're doing and

because we love them. I mean how could we could never let go of murder apparel. We have a special place in our heart for murder apparel. We're a centrally family. Yeah. Remember our coffee date? Yeah. Oh, so fun. It was wonderful. Well, the new merch website if you didn't see it on social media, is shop.morbidpodcast.com. Again, that shop, SHOP.OP.morbidpodcast.com. There's hoodies, there's t-shirts, and we're working on like a ton more. So as we get new things, some things are going to filter out. I mean, we're going to give you ample time to see what's there right now and order some stuff, but just know that it's not going to be there forever.

As we introduce new stuff, other stuff is going to get filtered out. Yeah, and we'll constantly be adding new designs and new styles and new items. So we'll keep you updated on all that, but check back whenever you can. And, you know, it's fun. It is fun. We're already working on new stuff like right now. We feel so excited that we actually have like real merch to get some exciting in that we don't have to send it out from our living room. Yeah. We have finally made it.

Finally that we can. Well that's not even true. I have one more shipment to send out. Don't worry. There was like a little problem with the distributor but I'm getting it sent out. But now we don't have to do that and that's great. No, but now that we've gotten that like exciting news out of the way Let's go womp womp womp. Yay. So when we last left you guys in part two We had heard about the murders of Pauline Reed, John Kilbride, and Keith Bennett. And they were equally horrifying all across the board. Yep, we heard how Ian and Myra have a very specific way of going about things.

They planted out to a T. Myra fucks up the plan. Myra fucks up the plan a lot, but somehow they keep getting away with it. And they kill, rape, and bury children on Saddleworth more. That's their thing. They do continue to do that, but this next murder of Leslie and Downey, oh no, 10 years old, is the one that I began part one, like mentioning, because it's the one that, first of all, deviates, there's the

first one that deviates away from what they've been doing because what they've been doing the first three times was they you know they pick out a kid, they lure that kid in with the promise of something because they want them to help them find my rose lost glove on the mores that means so much to her and because kids are always wanting to help you, that's how they just pray on that. I was going to say praying on a weakness. They continue to pray on weakness and pray on, you know, the helpfulness and kindness and naivete of children, which is nice, but they now bring this child to myrous home.

Oh. So that is very different, very risky, very out of the ordinary. Very horrible, I must say. No, it's important to say here that in a Myra, don't live together. They stay together a lot, so they're essentially living together. Myra lives with her grand. Oh, she does? So this home that this happens in, her grand lives in this home. So she's like, this is like very Jeffrey Dahmer-esque.

Yep, sure is. And Ian was also living with his mother. His mother. His stepfather. His birth mother. His birth mother and his stepfather. So they're like, they're like 20 somethings living at home, bumming off their parents

and murdering kids in their parents' house. Yeah. Like that's the worst kind of 20-something year-old you can have live in your house. There's like 20-something year-old that's gonna murder kids in it. Did Grand Everlet come out and say anything? Like, she heard things. She did.

Yeah, we're gonna hear that. Oh my God. Yeah, poor Grand. Poor Grand. Poor everyone. We're also gonna learn that the Hindley Gals are kind of just fuck up, so all together. Oh really?

Yeah. Maureen's, you know, Maureen's a fuck up too. She's a fuck up. I mean, she's not a murderer. A duck, rape, and murder. Kids fuck up, but she's a fuck up. Okay, let's go. I'm ready.

So let's do this. So, we are going to start by introducing somebody who doesn't become a victim. Well, not a murdered victim of them, but she's important. Okay. So this is a girl named Patricia Hodges. Hi, Patricia. She's 12 years old. Okay. Her mother was LC Masterson, and they lived a couple of doors down from Meira's Grands Place. Okay. So this was in like a apartment-y kind of building. So she often went over to Myra's house where you and Myra often were. She would go over there, she'd hang out with them a lot,

she would bring her toys over there, by all accounts, Ian and Myra didn't hurt her. Interesting. But then maybe they did. Okay. So I'm so confused. I know. They would take her to trips to the morse a lot,

and they'd like go have picnics. They also gave her wine a lot, and she was 12 years old. Which I would argue is hurting, but like whatever. I mean, but then again, I'm from America, and I know that's different. That's very different. So, but like when it's them giving, I don't want anything like that. I think it's them giving kids one that I'm like, but yeah, they would give her wine a lot.

So my reclaims that there was nothing sexual, nothing inappropriate about their relationship. But at a medical legal society meeting in November of 1967, there's a weird comment that was said about this. They said, so this is what one of the people that were part of this meeting said, quote, they had shown some affection towards the little girl, Pat Hodges. They had also shown some of their sexual perversity towards her because she had been subject to assaults in the presence of Mra. Now there is no more information about that. To me that sounds like she saw Ian and Myra like they did something in front of her. No she was the subject of assaults in the presence of Myra. Oh, meaning Ian assaulted her in

the presence of Myra. Okay. And we will see this could. So at first when you hear this you're like, Oh my God, what else is this? So nothing really came out of that. But then we bring back someone from a previous part that can shed a little light on this maybe. Whom? Ronnie Sinclair, the ex. AKA Myra Hindley's ex-fiance,

that they were gonna murder. So what just didn't do it? What did he say? So Ronnie Sinclair was sitting in a pub one weekend around where they lived. Yeah. Ian comes walking into the pub and he doesn't know Ian. So Ian walks in.

Just Ian knows him. Ian knows him because remember Ian had done the reconnaissance. He was gonna murder him. Oh yeah. He was following him to work. He knew his whole schedule. I forgot about that. But Ronnie doesn't know Ian.

So he walks in, Ian sits next to him, starts chatting with him. Eventually he brings up Myra, his girlfriend, and Ronnie's like, oh shit, okay, that's my ass. And just realizes he's like, oh awesome, we were so excited. We were so excited. I think he's like, oh you're that guy, oh yeah.

So then Ian starts bragging about his life of like breaking into homes and stealing shit and how he's so good at it and he makes so much money at it. And basically tried to get Ronnie in on a job with him. He's like, oh, do you want to be like a lookout? You can make some money. No thanks. And Ronnie was like, no, thank you.

So then Ian breaks out this fucking photo and he's like, well, are you into this? Takes it out of his jacket. He's Patricia. Shows him this photo and he's like, well, you into this. Takes it out of his jacket. Patricia shows him this photo and he's like, Hey, do you like this kind of thing? It's a naked young girl bound and gagged. Ronnie said he thought the girl looked to be about 13 and he was horrified. So he was like, nope, I don't like that. Like, no, thank you. That's not my thing.

And Ian ignored that and said he took the photos himself and he was like, nope, I don't like that. Like, no thank you, that's not my thing. And Ian ignored that and said he took the photos himself and he was like, the girls fine. Like she agreed to do it. And he said he had more like that. And Ronny was like, no, like I don't know. I'm not my thing bro. Like just nope, thank you. Thank you.

Shouldn't be anyone's thing. And he also, so then Ian also asked him, do you know any girls who will pose for me? No. And he was like, what? And then he said, I prefer 16 to 20 year olds, but like I'm really down for anything. I love that he just like offered all of this up. Like Ronnie's like, what the actual fuck?

So Ronnie's like, good day, sir. And if I came here for a casual beer. Well now it's speculated that the girl in that photo is maybe cash-hazard. Hodges. Oh my God. And it's never been like solved. Confirmed. But that, to me, seems like something might have happened there.

Yeah. There's no way that girl was hanging out with them and something bad didn't happen. No, I just don't. They're too... I mean, I hope to everything that it didn't, but it just doesn't seem that way. They're not the kind of people that don't do something

to a child. Exactly. And later, Patricia testified. She said, we went up to the Moors together about once or twice a week. They took wine up with them. They took wine with them nearly every time. So it sounds like they really liked wine.

I mean, same. Like, well, like I said, they drank a bottle a day together. I mean, not same. And you know what? It affected both of them later in life. So don't do that. Oh, did it? Yeah, they were real sick later in life. A bottle of wine a day together. I mean, not same. And you know what? It affected both of them later in life. So don't do that. Oh, did it? Yeah, they were real sick later in life.

A bottle of wine a day is a lot of wine. And they were heavy smokers, like they were, and they were killing people. So I think like the man, you know, just all of that was probably not great for the skin, you know, like, in a collection. Yeah, no, it's not. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times or fell in love with a vampire or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed?

What would you do? I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery.

These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. So during, they did a re-investigation of the case in 1987, like long after they had been caught. Mm-hmm. And Maya Ra told an investigator, Peter Topping, who he's the one who took like her famous confessions. He got a lot out of her, but he got a lot of

bullshit out of her too. And everybody kind of looks at it to be like, oh look what Myra said to him, because she is just a lot of bullshit. Yeah. Well, she said to him that both she and Ian had like, what she called an affectionate relationship with Pat. Uh huh.

Which is like, I don't want an affectionate relationship with Myra. And she said, no, absolutely not inappropriate, not sexual at all. And she said, but like, when we would all go in the car, she sometimes would sit on Ian's knee. Mm-hmm. And Ian didn't do anything. And I'm like, um, yeah, I don't love that.

No. So that's just showing you a little bit about like they didn't just kill your kids. I'm pretty sure they were doing lots of other things than those kids were not being murdered. Yeah. So they were just all around shit bags. This is making me feel so yucky. So after we have that, because Patricia does come back during the trial just like briefly, but I figured it was important to say, now we're going to come to Boxing Day in the UK. Is that the day after Christmas? Yes December 26th. This was 1964. The record that we would be associated with Leslie and Downey's murder because

remember they have to have a record for everything. Yeah. Was Girl Don't Come by Sandy Shaw. Okay. Now Leslie was 10 years old when she was murdered. She was petite builds. She was four foot ten inches tall. She had curly brown hair and blue eyes. She's like the cutest little nugget. Beautiful. I mean, that picture of her smiling with those little chubby cheeks.

She looks like a baby doll. It destroys. She looks like a cabbage patch. It destroys me. Yeah. I think I like tweeted about this last night because I had to step away from this particular case. You were texting me.

Elena was literally like, I just want to let you know that tomorrow is going to be horrible. Yeah, I was like, this is going to be really bad. Like, it's a bad. And I had done the rest of the case like this part. And then I had left Leslie's moment for last because I just couldn't couldn't let go to get through it. I had read it a million times before and it always bothered me. It's haunted me since I first right. But you didn't have kids at that point in there. My goodness. And now it's just way too

much for me. It's so bad. But I'm'm gonna give it to you guys because one her story should be told and two It's my job. So I'm gonna do it. So she was beautiful We posted a photo. We'll post another one. Yeah, her mother and West Let me just tell you this woman. I She has since passed away, but you're really gonna fuck me up. You just want to wrap your arms I don't know how she survived how she did. I really don't so her mother Ann West said about Lesley. She always did as she was told She came in from school at the at night and she would go up change out of uniform make her bed come down and do her homework She was perfect. She was absolutely perfect. Oh my god, but like her saying that like hurts

It's like so when Les Leslie was abducted the evening She was abducted. She was wearing a red tartan dress with lace tremmings She was wearing a pink cardigan over it red shoes a blue coat and she was wearing a string of white An necklace with white beads on them. Oh and her older Terry, had given it to her the day before for Christmas. Oh my God. Everybody, like, why does everything have to be so horrible? It's, I swear, they like knew these things somehow. So what happened on Boxing Day was Leslie went to affair with her neighbors.

Her older brother, Terry, was supposed to go with her, but he became sick with the flu that day, and he couldn't go. So the next door neighbor, Mrs. Clark, was going to take her own children, and said she would take Leslie and her little brother, Tommy, with her. And Mrs. Clark was like, oh, don't worry. And like the mother, she was like, I'll watch them. Like they're not going to go alone. That's why her mother allowed her to go without her present.

Unfortunately, at the last second, Mrs. Clark decided not to go and set the kids by themselves. And didn't tell Ann that? Nope. So, okay. It wasn't long before, so they got to the fair. You know, they lasted for a little while. There's only so much to do when you have like so much money in your pocket.

We all had like a couple of coins. So, they ran out of money. They got kind of bored and they were like, all right, let's go back home. And I think everything in rib was like, they went back home for tea, which I was like, I love the UK. I do too. I was like, that's amazing. But they wanted to go back. So but Leslie was like, I really want to like hang out at the fair a little more and just like see everything. So I'll catch up with you. No. So they left. And she stayed. Never leave your friends alone. I know. These were leave your friends alone! I know.

These were all like young kids. I know. But the last person to see Leslie alive aside from her vicious murders, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, fuck both of them, was Bernard King, who was 11 at the time and he was attending the fair. Yeah. He said he saw Myra Hindley wearing a dark wig and he said she was holding Leslie's right hand and leading her willingly out of the fair Oh, that's haunting as fuck and he says it

He was like knowing what I know now like he was like I was 11 I had no idea what I was witnessing and he said she wasn't kicking and screaming She wasn't dragging her out of the fair. I'd read to me. It just looked like somebody walking. He could have thought It was her mom. Yeah, he was like I didn't think anything of it until I saw later. It was like, holy shit. That's what I saw. Horrible. So what they did was they used another roost to play on kids need to help adults. What did they do? They dropped boxes near Leslie. And then they were like, oh, can you help us? And she was like, oh, yeah, I can help you bring them to your car. She's the sweetest little being ever. Exactly. So then I think that what they did was they asked her, you know, can can help you bring them to your car. She's the sweetest little being ever. Exactly. So then I think that what they did was they asked her,

can you help us load them to our house, and then we'll bring you home. And she was like, sure, I can help you do that. Oh, no. Now Ian says he wasn't there for this whole roof part, because he was like, that wasn't my thing. My room was the one to lure them in. I was the one to pick them up afterwards.

Myra says that, so he says Leslie was already in the car when she came to pick him up. Okay. Like she had done that part by herself and they met up. Now she says that Ian was with her when they did the box thing. So who fucking knows with these two shit stains? Like they're just they're always trying to fuck each other over. They begin the whole thing trying to save each other. And then they go the total opposite and try to fuck each other over. So who knows either way, they got her out of the fair. Yeah, unfortunately, willingly, which is how that, I think that's one of the

things that's so bad about this case is like all these kids were led. Like, honestly, like Myra said herself, like lambs to the slaughter. Yeah. They had no idea what they were in for. They were children. How could they have possibly, they just wanted to hold you up? That's what could happen to them. That's the whole thing as they just thought they were going to help and like go home after.

Yeah. So it's just so fucked up. So meanwhile, Leslie's mom, this, just, I had to include this because this just shows who she was and this just, this is going to hurt your heart. Leslie's mom had made a bunch of snowballs to throw at Leslie and Tommy when they got home. She was excitedly like waiting for them. She said, quote, so we went in and tidied the sitting room and enjoyed the last hour of unspoiled happiness in our entire lives.

Oh my god, I just got chills. This one's so bad. So Leslie was brought, okay, this is where it's gonna get really bad. Okay. And I'm gonna get through it. I was like, can you do it? But like, fuck, okay.

So Leslie was brought to Myra's Grants home where her grand was visiting her uncle Jimmy for the night's gone. And the 16 minutes of tape tells us what happens next. 16 minutes. Is this like an audio recording? There's an audio recording. And they only recorded them trying to take pictures of her,

get undressing her and terrifying her for 16 minutes before you said the actual audio has not been released. It has not been released to my knowledge. Everything I've read says that it hasn't been released to the public. Gotcha. There was a point when Ann West did say she wanted to release a portion of it during for a documentary because she wanted to show everybody. Look how vicious these monsters are. Right. And to tell her child's story, but they determine that it's too harrowing for the public to hear. Wow. Yeah. So she is heard at the beginning of the tape screaming and crying. She's pleading with them to let her see her mummy. Oh yeah, you said that in the beginning. Like that's fucked up. She

appeals to God at one point and pleads to God. She literally says God helped me, please. Oh my God. There are her, there are her through the whole time they're trying to force a handkerchief in her mouth. Ian is terrifying and cruel on this tape. He doesn't say a lot, but what he says is chilling, chilling. Myra says a lot of the stuff, but Ian is very terrified. Are you going to say what they say?

So he's trying to force the gag into her mouth and he keeps telling her to shut up. Both of them are telling her to shut up. She's crying and screaming the entire time. At one point he tells her if she keeps struggling, he's going to cut her neck open. Oh my god. She's a 10-year-old. Who's crying for her neck open. Oh my God. She's a 10 year old. Mm-hmm. Who's crying for her mother? Mm-hmm. Like, how?

I don't understand. She's the depths, the depths of depravity. He really is. Like both of them are. That's what they wanted out of this. That's the sick part. This is what they got on for it. Like that's fun.

Especially, I will say, especially Ian, Ian got off on cruelty to children. That's just what he got off on. Myra, I think just like got off seeing Ian get off to that. Exactly, so it's fucked up on a whole different level. At one, so he tells her he's gonna cut her neck if she doesn't stop struggling. Myra, who later pretended she was in memory,

was not as evil as Brady. And didn't she say she wasn't even there? Oh yeah, she comes out with all kinds of stories. She is heard being just as cruel and says at one point as the child is screaming and crying for her mother And at one point is like, please just let me say something. Please just let me say like she's trying to talk and She says in your mouth Hush-hush shut up or I'll forget myself and hit you one

so or I'll forget myself and hit you one. So, Maira? Fuck right off with that shit that you are being manipulated by Ian Brady. You are this cruel mother fucker who looked a ten year old in the face while shoving a fucking gag in her mouth and told her you were gonna fucking hit her. Like yeah, and you weren't there. And you're gonna sit, her supporters,

people supported her. I want to start a group that's like Punch a Myra Henley supporter because honestly if you supported this shit, fuck off. She had supporters. She had tons of supporters who thought that she was being railroaded and thought that she was manipulated by Ian Brady

and poor fucking Myra. She would never have done this without that. That's mind-vlogging. It's unfairly represented in the press. And it's like, we don't need the press. This is already okay. You're listening to the audio. Like, are you kidding me?

Wow. So at one point, even not alone, I wanted to run out of here. At one point, she tried to call them mummy and daddy. And I think it was possibly to appeal to some kind of humanity in them, to be like, because a normal adult would hear a child calling you mummy or daddy and would be like, fuck what the hell is happening here. But with them, it just fed their evil. The audio tape ends after they had bound and gagged her and stripped her naked. The song's jolly old St. Nicholas and the little drummer boy, I've been being heard by.

They then took... This is like makes me want to, I'm like nauseous. I was honestly like that, I had to step away from the nauseous right now. And I'm giving youous. I was honestly like that I had to step away from like a nauseous and I'm giving you a very generalized overview. I really don't like kid cases. I don't want to do it for a long time. I don't like this one. I really don't. But this case is so necessary to tell. They then took photos of Leslie naked in several positions in myers room.

She was sexually assaulted, raped, and then she was murdered. There is debate about exactly how she was murdered because when she was found it was difficult for them to tell. I will get into it in a minute. But of course, as always, Myra, you know, the bullshitting anal fissure that she is is She said that she was looking away the whole time because she was nervous that Leslie screaming would be heard through the open fucking window Why was the one like what? Well, that's a lie right off the bat Yeah, as Dr. Allen Keely points out in his book There's no way they would have left a fucking window open. There's no, they planned everything down to a letter. And somebody would have heard her and like been like,

what the fuck's up? And there's just no way he would have been that careless. Well, I'm like genuinely like very nauseous right now. Like I feel like I'm gonna barf. I'm glad we got through that part of it because I needed to get out of my fucking brain and I need to never look at this again. She's a lying sack of shit. Like that's, I mean like we said, she can be heard

throughout the entire audio. So fuck off. And I hope she's, I honestly hope that Myra Hindley is getting the same exact treatment that Leslie got in hell or wherever the fuck she is right now. I hope it's a daily occurrence. Yeah, same. Because oh, it's so so this is such an appearance. Just disgusting. I'm so angry. This is like disgusting. It truly is. It truly, truly is. Like I'm not kidding you, I would kill her myself. Oh, yeah, I think about Ann West. And I mean, all these all these parents, but like Ann West, just this is like, she probably did she have to go

to like the trial. Oh, yeah, because I don't know I wouldn't be able to sit there without trying to murder her Don't worry because and does and is very vocal and I just want to hug her each time Oh Well, then my rest said so first she said she was looking out the window and she she didn't know what was happening She didn't see her killed she didn't see her rapes She didn't see any of that A lot of a lot of Then she says oh no, you know what?

I was in the bathroom after the photos were taken and I was running a warm bath for her. You're, oh, you were running a warm bath for her before you killed her. Oh, really? How nice of you to do before you brutally murdered her. Really? Like that's what you were doing. So she said she waited in there for a while. And then she came out and saw Leslie face down on the bed dead, and she had clearly been raped.

But she was like, I didn't hear anything. I didn't see anything. Of course not. Really? Like, you're in a small, like, apartment. Yeah. You didn't hear anything? Like, okay.

Cool. Now on the stand later, when they got arrested, the attorney general basically told Myra with this story that she was full of shit. And even, he was like, even if you were looking out the fucking window, it's a tiny room. Like, you heard something. Like, he's like,

this is not like a concert hall. Like, you're in a room with her. Like, you knew exactly what was happening. Then they mentioned that she had literally, they were like, you literally threatened to hit her on the tape. You were all hurt. We heard you. Like, you weren't put, like, and what did she say?, you literally threatened to hit her on the tape. You were all hurt. We heard it.

Like, you weren't put like, and what did she say? You weren't trying to calm her down or anything or not being a part of it. You were actively participating in terrorizing this 10 year olds. Like, you're sitting here pretending you're not. And she responded with on the stand, quote, I wouldn't have hit her much. Much. I wouldn't have hit her much. Much. I wouldn't have hit her much. Myra Hindley, ladies and gentlemen.

I wouldn't have hit her much. I wouldn't have hit the terrified fucking ten-year-old that I abducted from a fairground. Two days after Christmas. And was trying to gag her and strip her before brutally murdering her. I wouldn't have hit her much. Only once or twice.

What the fuck? There's so many parts of this that I just, how also I imagine an attorney cross-examining her and just being like, I don't know how he didn't just walk out of the courtroom and be like, I quit. I'm done. I'm done. For real.

There's no speaking to these two people. I don't think I can add that word. It's one of those situations where you are just speechless. Blown apart. Like it blows every part of you. So Ian says, of course, that Maira is lying through her fucking teeth. He says, yes, she was in the bathroom. She participated in everything.

She helped me assault her. She held her down for me. And then she herself strangled her with a length of cord, while I held Leslie down. Oh. So he does implicate himself as well. Like he was like, we were, he says we were equal parts of, right.

He's evil as fuck, but at least he's fucking up front about it. That's the thing. He's evil on a galactic level. I mean, a galactic level, but at least he's like, yep. I am. I am gross he then said that she would take the cord out in public later like at pubs and anywhere and like play with it because she liked knowing what it was and that other people didn't know what it was that reminds me of I forget the lady's

name but the case where they were on vacation or something yes yes with the blood on it and she just liked knowing that that was there. Erica, Erica something. Yep. And he also says, yes, there was a bathroom. I had her run a bath, but he said it was very quick. It didn't take a long time. And we ran it so that we could wash Leslie's dead body

in there and get all the fibers and dog hairs. That's what I thought, too. Like, he's like, I'm not even going to pretend to wash that I was going to physical of an ass. Give her a bath. Like, he was like, I'm not even going to pretend to wash. I was like, is a glove in her bath. Like he was like, I murdered her and then was going to wash her body so they couldn't connect her back to me. Like he's being honest. Like, that's what I was going to say that when you said the bath was going to be around. Yeah, he was like, because we had never killed in our own home before. So I figured we had to do much more here. So they then tried to bring Leslie to the morse to bury her obviously, but the weather was bad

Mm-hmm. It was snowingly crazy. So they brought her back to Grand's house and Then they realized that they had to make sure Grand didn't come back because my rose supposed to go get Grand and bring her back home that night So my redrove to her uncle Jimmy's house and told her she couldn't bring it He was like she was like I can't bring Grand Home because the roads are really bad. And he was like, but you have to drive home anyway. And you just drove here. Like you just drove here to tell me that and you're driving home.

I can't you just put her in the car. So she was like, can't do it. And just when you just like call and say that, wouldn't that make a lot more sense? Well, and he was like, later, he was like, okay. Like later, he was like, now I know. Right. But obviously at the time, I was like, that's weird he was like, now I know. Right. But obviously, at the time, I was like, that's weird.

And I don't know what to say. Sometimes when people are like, that you're like, I'm not even going to argue. Yeah, I'm just not even going to go into this. Meanwhile, poor Leslie's mother Ann and stepfather Allen are losing their minds with Larry. Yeah. They called the police around 10 p.m. They were knocking on doors and frantically searching outside for her in the bed weather.

All the while, Leslie was nit-lying naked, dead, and face down on their bed while they slept in another room. Oh my god. Yeah, they just threw her on the bed, face down, figured we'll take care of it tomorrow. Let's go to sleep, we'll figure it out tomorrow. That's so, that's beyond fucked. So the next morning, Ian and Myro will be we're able to get out to the moors because the roads had cleared. Ian ran out with the shovel to get the grave ready. It was near Pollyne Reed's grave. Oh wow. While Myro was waiting for

the with Leslie's body in the car, a police officer pulled up beside her. And he said, is everything okay? Is like everything with your car? Do you need a jump or anything? She's like, yeah, no, it's running well. There's just a dead body in here. No child. She said something about needing to wait for her car to start properly or she was letting spark plugs dry out or something. She made some kind of bullshit. Yeah. And he was like, okay, cool. Just drove away. Why does that always happen in the most gruesome cases? Can you imagine that cop later? That's like Ed Kemper, cool. Just drove away. Why does that always happen in the most gruesome cases? Can you imagine that cop later? That's like, I'd camper.

Yeah. Like he got stopped with a head in the back seat. Oh my God. Yeah, I gotta go. I'm calling and sick for the rest of this. Okay, bye. Yeah, you know? It's just so...

Ian buried Leslie naked with her clothing on top of her and put the strand of white beads that Terry had given her on top of that And she was so excited about that necklace and it was like her older brother And her poor older brother Terry like feels such a men's guilt for having the flu and not being able to go Nothing you did wrong nothing he did But he's like if I was, like this wouldn't have happened. It's like, I can't. No, you know who I'm mad at?

And I feel like everybody has a right to be mad at it. The mom that let them go by themselves. And Mrs. Clark. And like, I'm sorry. Mrs. Clark, if you're in charge of somebody else's kid, you need to tell the parent exactly what you're doing with her kid. Exactly.

Like, if anybody gets mad at me for that, I don't care. No, that's honestly. She fucked up. I think this is a universal truth. Like you don't fuck with other people's kids. No, that's why my kids are never going to sleepovers or like any of them. With anybody else. I'll be like, your friends can come with us,

but that's it, but you're not going anywhere. No, sorry, bye. So a couple of weeks later, they took photos of themselves smiling together, standing next to Leslie and Downey's grave. Wow. Yep. Police dragged waterways and canals.

The fare was completely torn down. Alan West was questioned, of course, because the dads are always being questioned, especially a stepfather. Yeah. It's the last time. Yeah. And Leslie's family actually moved out of their home because they couldn't bear to be in it anymore.

Well, her was just had too much memories. Right. Now, apparently Ann, Leslie's mother, allowed one of the photos to be shown publicly for the first time in that documentary that I mentioned. I don't have the name of it. I don't even know if it, like, if you can find it, but for part four, I'll let you know if I can find the documentary. Okay.

It's about the cases from 1999. She agreed two parts of the tape being erred like I said earlier. Yeah. But they were like the public. I can't share this. She agreed to all this because she wanted to show how evil these two were and she wanted the world to know this is what they did to my baby. Yeah.

Don't let them out of jail. Don't have support for them. Don't have sympathy for them. Don't have sympathy for them. This is what they did. Right. And she's right. So later, they found Myra's fingerprints on the photos taken of lesbian

because she had fucking looked at them after Ian developed them. So again, if she's going to pretend that she was there unwillingly and was just going along with what Ian was telling her to do, then why did you look through the photos later? Right, like what did you get out of that? Because you're just as fucked up as him.

Exactly. It's insane. So she later said quote, I don't even want to know what she fucking said. She later said about it when they asked her, you know, like, why are your people prepared for it? Because she said many things like, I'm so ashamed, like fuck right off. And she'd be like, you know, I don't know what she fucking said. She later said about it when they asked her, you know, like, why are you afraid of her? Because she said many things like, I'm so ashamed, like, fuck right off.

And she'd be like, you know, I don't know what to say. Bulba, blah, blah. But then she said one final thing that was like a nice dig at her mother. She wrote, or she said, quote, the girl shouldn't have been out at that time of night. Are you kidding me? So she shouldn't have been out at that time of So that makes it okay for you to do what you

did because that like so it's her fault now. Well, if you feel that way, why wouldn't you offer her a ride home and bring her home then? Like this is why my reflects from like innocent to like depraved innocent to depraved in the public so much that it's that's why when she was going for parole it was like no no no no no no no no no no no no no no so Ian said about Maira when she was trying to get get the parole later. Quote she regarded periodic homicides as rituals of reciprocal innovation, marriage ceremonies, theoretically binding us even closer. Yeah. As the record show, before we met my criminal activities had been primarily mercenary. Afterwards, a duality of motivation developed.

Existential philosophy melded with the spirituality of death became predominant. We experimented with the concept of total possibility. Instead of the requisite Lady Macbeth, I got Miss Alaina. Who's Miss Alaina? Miss Alaina, sorry. And actually, I wrote, who is Miss Alaina? Who is Miss Alaina? She was the Empress who ranged next to the Emperor Claudius in ancient Rome. Oh, Claudius was fucked up.

And she was known to be super promiscuous and also known to order Claudius to execute literally anyone that she just didn't like. Oh, dear. super promiscuous and also known to order Claudius to execute literally anyone that she just didn't like. So he's saying I thought I was getting Lee and Macbeth and I got I got to sleep and I got more than I bargained. Yeah, which is like he loved. I was gonna say you love that was like his jam. In a letter to Dr. Alan Keatley Ian said that at this point, after they killed Leslie and Downey, they were bored. They killed four kids and now they wanted something new. What do you want?

So he said, this is crazy. He said they discussed at length the psychological and logistical mechanics of creating a small race war. What? A lot, Charles Manson. Yeah, they did it before him. Yeah Yeah, what did it before him? Yeah, they were like Helter-Skelter and then he said however, we had no political or racial motive What just for the funsy of it. He said to us. It was simply an existential challenge

What? Just for the funsies of it. He said to us, it was simply an existential challenge, an end in itself. And then he said, we also discussed and researched the existential challenge of derailing an express train. What? So they were like, we got real bored with killing kids, you know, when we were over that.

So we decided we could either start a race war or we could just derail a train and watch everybody die. Okay. Yeah. Just what? You know, Wednesday thing. I keep shifting in my seat. I'm sorry if you're hearing it. I'm just so uncomfortable. Yeah. So uncomfortable. Now during all this madness with Leslie and such, David Smith who is married to my resistor Maureen at this point. Oh, you said they had just gotten married. Yeah They have they now have a baby girl named Angela. No, thank you And they were apparently in love with Angela. They were very happy as a family David said he felt like his whole outlook on life had changed. He was very doding

He also said Ian and my red didn't give a shit about their daughter My red never held her. Like, that's her only niece of her sister supposed to be her best friend. Yeah, that's weird. And it's her little sister. That would literally be like me not wanting to, like, I'm not holding your kids. And actually, they were like, the way David put it was like,

there was no like loving and doting, like Uncle Ian and Auntie Myra, like, they were just not into it at all. And she was an infant. That's like unfathomable to me. Whenever you're pregnant, I literally lose my shit. Well, that's a normal response to somebody you love having a baby. But April 24th, 1965, and this is really sad, Maureen and David Smith's daughter died at six months old.

Oh, she died of bronchitis. They were devastated. And the two couples started hanging out more because I think Maureen was just looking for her sister's comfort. She was like, I just need somebody. And it kind of organically just helped them numb the pain. Of course they started bringing them to saddle worth more. Fucked up. And many times they brought them to grave sites without them knowing, just to get kicks out of it.

That's not funny. Yep. This is after their own baby had just died. They're bringing them to grave sites of children they've murdered. Yep. Yep. So now they're hanging out with Ian and they're hanging out and Ian and David would sit and drink and chat and Ian kept trying to get David into like the robbery house breaking kind of thing. He's always trying to recruit, like always be closing Ian. Well, I'm like, also, are you even doing that anymore? Yeah, like just do it yourself. Like why are you constantly trying to recruit everyone around you? It's a lot. He figured it was a good way for David to make money, because David was struggling to get jobs.

So he was like, yeah, you can make money with me. And David was like, ah, maybe. I'd rather do it the honorable way. Make sure. Actually, David was no, uh, no boy- Horrible man himself. But I mean, he was, he was not this bad, but he was not like, he was like, no, sir. Like, he was just like, I don't know.

I'm a little nervous about that. Yeah. So, but then Ian, according to David, asked him if he was capable of murder. Like, Ian, all of a sudden just came out and was like, hey, yeah, so you should do some robberies with me. Like, it's super easy. You can just be like, a lookout.

Do you think you're capable of murder? I also love that, what's the, David, is his name? He's like, I'm a little nervous about like, breaking into these houses and he's like, but what about murder? Like, you know what? You can do that. We'll start small.

You want to murder a child? Like, what? That might be easier. Yeah, then a robbery. But you know what, to Ian, that's probably like the starting point. He's like, let's murder a child, that's very easy. And then we can move on to robbery.

But Nana's, it's insane. And David was like, well, and he was like, uh, and he was like, cause I've done it. Oh. And he was like, what now? And he said, I've done it.

I've killed three or four. You don't really believe me, do you? Their bodies are buried on the moors. You and Maureen were sitting near one of them. Oh my God. Can you have so fucked up to do to someone? I'm not laughing, cause it's funny. I'm laughing because I'm so uncomfortable.

Well, there's gonna be a lot of nervous laughter and like weird emotions happening here. Like everybody's just gotta go with it because I'm sure, honestly, I'm sure you're listening right now being like, so we all get it. We're all on this together. Oh yeah, you guys were sitting near one.

LOL. You're just sitting there drinking with your brother-in-law and you're like, oh, no. what the fuck? Eventually, he did convince David Smith to commit a robbery with him. And he was like, and honestly, David probably agreed out of fear. Because he's like, well, now I know that you murdered someone. So Ian said, he said a bunch of times that he was like, you know what?

I was nervous that David was a little too scared to go through this. He wasn't, he was too much anxiety, he didn't have the nerve. And he was like, you know what, I gotta test him. I gotta make sure that he's gonna be someone who's not gonna run and bail at the like slightest sent of danger, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he said he was gonna take him to them, he was like, at first I thought I'd just take him to the Moors with a victim that I grabbed, you know. And he said he was gonna try to hand him to them. He was like, at first I thought I'd just take him to the moors with a victim that I grabbed. You know. And he said he was gonna try to hand him a gun to shoot the kid. And if David wouldn't do it, he would ask for the gun back

and then shoot them both in the head. But like, why are you even involving David? Like, what is the point of that? I don't get it. I think it's a to add to the excitement because they were bored of killing the children. I think it was to add to the excitement and I think it was also some weird thing

where he felt, I feel like he got off on the fact that he was like kind of corrupting my resistor, which was an important person in his life. He liked her. And he also liked her. So I think it was like a mixture of just getting her involved in some way. Okay.

I feel, and just corrupting people in general, maybe. It almost seems like he wanted to start a community of like just fucked up people. Like he wanted to do Charlie Manson. Hello, we're the community of fucked up people doing fucked up things. How can we help you establish 1966? How can we hurt you? How can we hurt you? Oh, whoof hate. So the robbery was in a few days and David was acting more and more nervous about it. Every time they brought it up, he was like, yeah, totally. I totally understand the point. This is exciting.

So Ian was like, all right, we're going to test them because I think he'll crack, but I'm not going to do that more. It's a thing because I don't have a victim picked out and it's big. So anybody would crack. Yeah, you know, anybody would crack for that. And so he told David that they could practice the robbery by, and I quote, rolling a queer. What does that mean? Which men convincing a gay person to come back to the house by acting that they wanted

to have sex with them and then just robbing them. Rolling a queer. And at this time, in the 60s, it was illegal for homosexual acts. So they could rob a gay person by promising them sex acts or doing sex acts with them and then robbing them. And they knew they weren't gonna get in trouble with it

because that person wasn't gonna go to the police because they would get in trouble. Because holy shit. Because life is just one big fucked up medley. For it's just like a layer after layer of shit in this case. So October 6th, 1965. Edward Evans would be the last victim of Ian Brady and Myra Hendley. The record that they purchased and that they would think of for this one. Last one. Was Bob Dylan's, it's all over now, baby blue. No, you don't ruin Bob Dylan for

someone. They did it. No. They sure did. I'm glad it was that song though because I don't really like those songs. I'm glad. So Edward was 17 years old. He was one of three children who was parents Edith and John. He was a good kid all around. He was an apprentice engineer actually at AEI He was an apprentice engineer actually at AEI Electrical works on Trafford Parkestate When he was murdered he was wearing a white button up shirt jeans a brown dress shoes and a nice suede jacket Because he was going out that night. Yeah that particular evening He was gonna be meeting his friend Michael and they were gonna go see Manchester United play Helsinki at old Trafford soccer stadium.

I knew that man United was gonna play part in this. Did I not? That man United. I love how you just were like, you know man United. Because my stepmom is like a huge man United fan. I love it. So yeah, he was gonna meet his friend Michael.

They were gonna go see the game. All excited. Well his friend bailed at the last second. Damn it. He was like out at a bar waiting for him and he just didn't show up. So he was pissed. He was like, that sucks.

I had like a whole night plan. Yeah. So Ian and my row were out to get wine and Ian walked out to get the wine like in this, basically like a packy. I don't know what they call it and then you okay? I don't even know.

I'm excited to know. Probably a liquor store. I'm probably like something weird. We're like a packy, I don't know what they call it, and then you okay? But I'm actually, probably a liquor store, I'm probably like something weird. We're like a packy. A packy. And so he sees Edward outside of it. And he was like, that's the guy. I'm gonna get that guy.

So he asked him if he wanted to come to his place and have some drinks and Edward agreed. Because he, again, his night just got fucked up. He was like, sure. He was like, why not? So he asked him, he wanna come back, because he, again, his night just got fucked up. He was like, sure. Why not? Why not? So he asked him, he wanna come back, he says, sure.

And he acted, he did, and he said it, he was like, I acted, like I wanted to have sex with him. Well, and Ian was gay, or excuse me, bye. And actually, most people think that he was actually like gay. He was not by, but that he was just like, Myra does look like a dude. She sure does. So it's very possible. But he said, I took, you know, I made it very clear to him what I was looking for. And he was, he was into it.

So when they got in the car, he was like, oh, this is my sister to Myra, about Myra. Yeah. Because he's like, I wanted to make it as. And again, a woman always makes people feel a little less threatened. Yeah. And all these kids, you see a woman, you're always told, be scared of scary men. You're not really told as a kid be scared of scary women. You're telling me that's the thing. I'm gonna tell my kids to be scared of everything.

Yeah, basically. So he says, Myra's a sister. Myra drops them off at her grand house. Mm-hmm. Where's Grand's house? Oh, grand was home. Oh, goody. And Ian told her to get David Smith at Maureen's house.

He was like, oh, get David Smith or their house because they're married. And to wait a bit there before she returned with him. Okay. Now allegedly, it appears Edward and Ian did have sex. This was while Mairiro was getting David Smith. Miro went to Morin and David's, and she used some excuse for why she was there that night.

Like she told her, like, oh, I had to tell you this. And yeah. And so then she was like, hey, David, can you walk me back home because the street lights are out and I'm nervous. So he agreed and he took a walking stick with him. And this had a string attached to the end of it. I was trying to look up pictures of this kind of thing, and I couldn't really find anything that makes sense.

But basically, it's like a walking stick, and it had like a long length of string on the end of it. For why? It's important in a minute. Uh, because I first saw it like what? [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash, and we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on?

Well in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners

already know what we've gotten store. Hey, my nose. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance. Episode by episode. Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, ee-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e- and came down with it on his skull. Just boom! Out of nowhere. He said Edward turned at the last second to look at him and the blow went a little to the side, otherwise, according to him, it only would have taken one hit. Oh, okay, Ian. But instead, it took 14.

Ah! This is Ian's telling of what happened next. Oh, we also, you're in Grand's living room and you're slaughtering somebody. Oh, yeah. And Grant yells down at one point like, hey, what's going on? And Miro's like, don't worry about it. What the fuck? Yeah.

So they clean that up. Sorry, go ahead. We're getting there. I'm sorry. So Ian's retelling, Ian's telling of what happened. Evan screamed out as I rained down blows to his head. He was writhing on the floor to protect himself. Myro was in the room watching.

The two dogs were excited and barking in the kitchen. Myro's grandmother had been woken up by the noise and shouted down to ask what was happening. Myro's shouted something and replied, but I was too occupied to know what it was. Evan was still alive after I hit him about a dozen times. I went into the kitchen to fetch a length of electrical flex. I put a cushion over his head and strangled him by wrapping the wire around his neck. Evans stopped gurgling. It was suddenly quiet.

The walls, floor, and carpets were splattered with blood. I handed the axe to Smith so that his fingerprints were on the handle. I lit a cigarette and muttered something about it being the messiest murder I had ever committed. My roommate had commented about the terror and Evans eyes as he was being flayed. No, she didn't. Of course she did not. I don't think she said anything. No, she wasn't even in the room.

She wasn't even in England at that point. Nope, she wasn't. She was actually a Germany that day. Yeah, she was totally gone. So she had taken a new bird and she was out of there. So yeah, this is just in, I axe murdering someone just for the hell of it. Yeah.

There's literally no reason for this. Not that there's a reason for anything. But what? Like you just hid an axe and just, what? And somebody's grand house. That's the other thing. It's like you didn't, you who thinks of everything, you didn't think this one through to be like,

well that's gonna be messy. Right. So then, it's so bizarre to me. It's very bizarre. And that's how you can tell that they were unraveling. Right. Like there's always that point you can see where it was just, they weren't gonna go for much longer They were going to fuck up and this is their fuck up. So then they took his wallet, his shoes and the murder weapon into I think they put them in a bag and they put them in

an upstairs bedroom somewhere and then they spread a white sheet on the floor. They placed Edward's body on the sheet. He then took that string from David's walking stick because he's trying to tie David to this. And he tied Edward with it into a fetal position. Oh God. They then carried him upstairs to store in a spare bedroom to be disposed of the next morning. You know, Grant was lying there like what the fuck is going on she's like she do that her kid was evil or her great why? Is my ugly as fucking sin Grand bitch downstairs with that gunt looking Motherfucker yeah, and someone screaming and now you got my other stupid grand daughter's stupid husband down there

Like I'm just this poor old woman. She raised them seriously. She fucking raised them and this is what they do to her. God damn. Well, I need to know why Maureen's so fucked up and I feel like we're approaching that. It is actually, so you know what, I'll give it to you now. It might come up in part four, so because I said it now, I don't want to be like, I'm a cliffhanger. Basically later, Maureen does end up having more kids,

and she turns into a complete shipbag and neglects them and malnourishes them and they get taken away from her. She malnourishes? Yes, she doesn't feed them. They're all under six years old. She has three of them. Three boys, under six years old. She leaves them alone in the house to go party.

Like, she's a shipbag just like Maureen I just like my rice who gives a fuck the bitch is Where was David do I find out later you will yeah, you'll find out where was David? David factors into a lot of it. Oh David. Oh David so then they got to cleaning because of course now there's a big mess to clean it. Like on the ceiling, like how do you clean the ceiling? So he and said, it took the three of us, almost three hours to clean up the blood in the living room, using buckets of soapy water and rags. The carpets were the most troublesome. I found it incomprehensible

that the police couldn't find traces of blood on the carpets. This incompetence led them to assume that I had taken up the carpets before Evans arrived in preparation for the slaughter. Even Smith said that the carpets were down all the time. So yeah, so they couldn't find, apparently they couldn't find any blood, but I don't think forensics was really at its high. The 60s in the UK. But so they sat around after this after they cleaned everything up, all three of them drank together, smoked some sigs together,

and they discussed plans for disposal. Because now what are we going to do? Yeah. They agreed that they would use David's recently dead infant daughter's baby carriage to transport Edward's body because it wouldn't arouse suspicion. And he agreed to this. What? They wrote the plan down. I repeat, they wrote the plan down. Well, he's a Capricorn, of course they did. I'm not sure. And then they put it in Ian's wallet. I believe, yeah.

You wrote the plan down. Like that. That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard though. But I believe that. I know. I do too, but like fuck. So around 3 or 4 a.m. David is like a fucking wreck.

And he's trying to hold it together in front of them and act like it's like totally fine. Slowly wearing off. Well, and he just did not want any part of this to begin with. He got like bamboozled into this. Yeah. They just tricked him into being a witness of this murder. Yeah.

And he's like, oh, and so he's trying to act like, yeah, this was fun. Can't wait to do it again. Like, yippee. And so around 3 or 4 a.m. he's like, you know what? I'm gonna go back to moraine. It's that's cool Can I go now? I'm gonna go get some sleep so I can help you guys out with this like fun disposal plan tomorrow Like whoo whoo can't wait for that and he said he was absolutely terrified and he thought he was he was like I thought they weren't gonna let me leave. I thought he was next Yeah, and he said he walked away just walked down the street after they were like, okay thought they weren't going to let me leave. I thought he was next. Yeah. And he said he walked away, just walked down the street

after they were like, OK, they let him go. And he walked until they couldn't see him anymore. And then he broke into a sprint and spread to it all the way home. I believe that. He immediately told Maureen. And she said he was like dry heaving and vomiting. He was so upset.

Oh god. They immediately called the police. Yeah. And October 7th, 1965 at 6.07 a.m. Constable Keith Edwards opened answered the phone call where David told him, Hi, my name is David Smith. There's been a murder. Uh-huh. David Smith is the one who brought down myra-hingely, Annie and Brady. Wow. They bamboozled him into witnessing a murder, and he immediately went home and was like, well, we're gonna call the police now.

It makes me so sad that Maureen turned out to be such a shipbag, because they could have been heroes. I know. We could be heroes. But they weren't true. Yes, just a moment. Yes, but actually, they were never treated as heroes, because everyone thought David had more

to do with this than he was letting on. Do you? What do you think? I don't think he did. Okay. The investigators don't either. Okay. Was he like a great person?

No. But did he have anything to do with any of the murders? No. No. I don't believe that. I wonder why people thought that. I think it's just because they. They.

They also. They. They. Well, and Ian and Myra lie and say that he was part of things. So there's people. Oh yeah. Let's trust those guys. They've been such a beacon of honesty so far. So when they arrived, so when the police arrived, David told them the entire story. He included, you know, that Ian has told me he's killed before three or four times.

He said this body is buried on the moors. He's got guns in the house. Like he gave them all of it. He was like, here is all the shit you need. Right. Please, please, please help me. And the police said he was genuinely terrified. Yeah.

Of course he was. And body was next day, but in fact, they said when they pulled up in the police car, he dove into the police car because he was like, I'm afraid they're around. Like, I'm terrified. They were. Now, super-intended Bob Talbot dispatched 24 uniformed and six plane clothes policemen to block the surrounding roads around Myers-Grance House and the rest went to Ian and Myers' doorstep.

Okay. Now, no one was out of the house by 8.30 AM when they were all waiting. Yeah. Because Ian was planning to call him sick at work and Myro was going into work to not arouse suspicion. Right. Because he was like, we can't fuck up our routine.

You have to go to work. The only reason he wasn't going to work was because he hurt his ankle the night before. Oh my God. And like a little bitch. He was like, my ankle hurts. I know one time I worked an entire shift with a sprained ankle in heels. Not my god. And like a little bitch. She was like my ankle hurts. You know one time I worked an entire shift with a sprained ankle in heels. Not Ian Brady. And my manager was like you can go home now.

Not Ian Brady. So they so yeah. So Myro was on her way out. She wasn't gonna be leaving until around close to 9am. So they were just kind of waiting for someone to open the door. Yeah. So Talbot, the superintendent, he sees a bread delivery man and he asks him if he can borrow his uniform and a tray of bread and he goes up to the door and just knocks on the door as a bread delivery man. Wait, who does? The like police officer. Oh, this police superintendent walked up to the door to be like, yeah, where's your bread? Also, your rest is so he went up there. He knocks on the door and Mira opens the door because if they walked up and just knocked on the door those two were gonna fucking go out and

blaze a glory you know that oh hundred percent but if he's walking up as it's just bread every man the door is gonna open Mira loves fucking carbs exactly who doesn't really so Mira answers the door and he, in the way he describes it, I just made me laugh because he was like, she looked about 35. She was 23. I told you she's a rough 22 sister and I was just 23. I just loved that little dig like, she looked, she looked,

she looked more than a decade older than what she actually was. She did. When you told me she was 22 and like last part of the part before, I was like, excuse me, excuse me, I don't think she ever looked 22. I think she came out of the womb looking 35. 35 is generous. I was gonna say 35 is like, I'm 35.

So 35, I'm like, that's very nice. You also look 18 and still a quarter. She looks, she looks a rough like 50 she really does and a rough 50. I'm not saying 50 looks like 40 something. Yeah, in a rough 40 says she's not like I'm down 40. Yeah, it's no good. So she just answers the door and he's like,

hey there, hey, you have some bread and she's like, that's weird, we don't need bread and he's like, cool, I'm just gonna come in your house because I'm a police officer. Like he looks like thanks for he's like, cool. I'm just going to come in your house because I'm a police officer. Thanks for opening the door, honey. So, so he's like, hey, where's your husband? And she was like, I don't have a husband. And he was like, where's the man that lives in this house? And she was like, there's no man in this house. And he was like, and he just looks behind her. And he's like, what's that man sitting on the couch in there? And

she was like, was that Ian? Uh, yeah, it was just Ian sitting on the fucking couch in the living room. It's like there's no man here. There's no man here. He's like, I don't know what to say. I'm not. He was like there. He's right there. What about that one?

Well, so they just walk in. They're like, yeah, so we know that you did this. So they walk in. Ian is sitting on the couch, like wearing... Sharding. Barely anything. Sharding. Because he's like scared, I bet.

Like, sharding his pants. Either your face. Sharding barely anything. Sharding? Because he's like scared, I bet. Like, sharding his pants. You're face, sharding. Like what? Like, is he sharding his pants? No, he was not. He was writing a letter to his boss to excuse him for work that day, because he'd think of her.

Okay, okay. And he did not stop writing that letter as the police walked into the house. Okay. He finished writing the letter. Don't know why because he didn't need it. But okay. So he's sitting on the couch and they were like,

all right, we're going upstairs or checking these rooms. They go to open one of the bedroom doors, the bedroom door. And it's locked so they like open this up. And she says the keys are at the office. And it's, you know, I'm not going to go to the office and get you those keys. Uh-huh. And they're like, no, they're not. And they're like, what now? And Ian, without even looking up said, you'd better give them the key. I got a fight got

out of hand last night. It's upstairs. No. So he's literally, yeah, there was a fight. It's upstairs. And they were like, what now? So they did get into the room and they found Edward's body. Is this what reminded you of the Twilight murders? This is why you thought about it. Yeah. Okay. Maybe think of it. Now Ian had planned, Ian and Myra had planned to go down shooting. Yeah. If they were ever caught, they had a very well-worked plan that they were going to grab a gun

and they were just going to start shooting police officers. Cool, cool, cool. That was what they were going to do. Normally, he had his revolver under his bed and under the pillow bed that they slept on. So he was sitting on the bed. He bent down to tie his shoes because they told him to get dressed.

Like you sickly look and motherfucker, get dressed. We're all looking at you're like gangly naked ass. He is gangly. So he starts putting up, he starts putting on his outfit and he's tying his shoes as three shoes. And he reaches back to grab the revolver. Uh-huh.

Well, he realized that last night when he and David Smith were bringing Edward's dead body into the upstairs bedroom, he was wearing a shoulder holster with a gunnet with his revolver in it. Oh. It was bothering him and making it hard for him to maneuver, so he took it off and threw it in another bedroom. Oh, damn. So there are a lot of bedrooms or this apartment. There are a vault that he, I think he threw it in the bedroom that he put Edward in. Okay. Yeah. But he was so you're like, normally it would be under the bed. But it could just reach and go.

But that is one little thing that one little and he swore to the very end if I had just put it under the bed I wouldn't be here but here I am I kind of believe that and I kind of believe it but so and those police officers are lucky man because I'm bad that's a literal not today Satan and their plan together was to kill anyone who tried to take them out and then if it got too crazy and they like couldn't do that they had a murder suicide pact. Right. He was going to shoot her in the head and then blow his brains out. But he couldn't. But he couldn't do it. So when they searched the rest of the home, they found the plans that they had written for

disposing a bedboard. They found books on sexual perversion. And they found notebooks of Ian's where he had written the name John Kilbride. Oh shit. And immediately they're like, oh fuck. Like what? What have we here? Because they're just looking at one murder. One murder. They had no idea that John Kilbride was going to be involved in this.

They were like, wait, what? Or any of the other. So now they're like, holy shit. Now we have to really look through this. So they were both brought in. Ian was charged with Edward Evans' murder. Myra was released after questioning, because they didn't have anything on her.

And she stayed with her mother for four days. Those were her last four days of freedom. Oh good. And in those days, she destroyed evidence. Damn it. Of course she'd said that she had burned a ton of envelopes without looking to see what they were. She didn't know what they were. But ton of envelopes without looking to see what they were. She didn't know what they were.

But Ian was like, no, she knew what they were. Well, she burned. Why else would you burn them? She burned them. She knows what was in them. And then he said, actually, some of the stuff in those envelopes would have helped you locate Keith Bennett's body.

Oh no. And they never located Keith Bennett's body. That might not even be true. He might just be saying that to be a dickhead. He probably was. The luggage ticket be saying that to be a dick. He probably was the luggage ticket That would lead to the pieces of luggage that he had left at the railway station those luggage that he would put like all the fucked up shit in yeah that like my rose like I never saw what was in The mouth no you did me while you probably took half the shit that was exactly the ticket

So it's the luggage ticket that you need to go get those luggage things was shoved into that prayer book that she was given on her first communion there in part one when she converted to a new religion. Yes. Remember I said that prayer book. That light prayer book was going to come back. They had put the fucking luggage ticket, which the luggagees were the things that contained the leslie and downie tapes and photos were in her fucking prayer book. That's bananas. And then later she's going to try that religious shit again. When she put the fucking ticket that has naked 10 year old girl photos in the thing that's connected to it in her fucking prayer book. So that whole religious shit that

she pulled later, I'm like, you weren't religious. So you're the most sacrilegious mother fucker. You're the most blaspheming evil human on planet earth. Are you kidding me? I am getting so hyped. It's insane. So she couldn't get that prayer book back because police officers were guarding her grandson's home

because it was still a crime scene. So she couldn't go in there and get the prayer book, but she was hoping she couldn't get rid of. When she was hoping they just wouldn't look in it, but she had displayed it. Oh my God. Because she liked being like, she's like,

I am. I am one with the gods. But knowing that she had this fucking terrible thing in it. Right. Because it was like how they would put those pictures and like, exactly. In the, in the album, she fuck in it. Right. Because it was like how they would put those pictures in like, exactly. In the, in the album, right. Fuck with people.

Right. Well, they found it in their book eventually. What have we here? They go to the luggage and they got the luggage, open it up. They found the photos of Leslie Andownie and the tape and all they needed. 3 p.m. Monday, October 11th.

Myra Hindley was charged with Edward's murder. Oh! And she was brought back in, so four days later. While they were doing interviews, the police learned about Patricia Hodges. The 12 year old that lived, a couple of doors down from her. And they learned that she went to the Moors' Attun with them, and they were like, holy shit, can you please walk us to where they used to bring you?

Because it might be where these kids are buried. Because they love to do that shit. So Saturday, October 16th, police went walking and they pointed out a few things. And they started looking through the photos that were like in this bag, because some of the photos also were the photos they took of them at the mores right they went with what Patricia Hodges was showing them which they always went to certain spots

right very over and over well on this October 16th day they discovered Leslie and Downey's body using all of those different methods her mother Ann had to identify her body she had to look at two photos that Ian had took of her and had to listen to a minute of tape to identify all of it. Al and West, her stepfather, said that he would have done it, but he wasn't blood relation and they wouldn't let him. Oh my god. But he said it always bothered him that he didn't get to shoulder that burden instead of, because he said I would have taken all that burden from her I never would have wanted her to have that. Well, no, he probably was like her father like oh, yeah, you know what I mean?

Oh, he said he was like I and he said I would have taken that like a bullet for for Anne, right? It was just like you wish that they would have just let him like you can't you just spend the real little bit Let him do it man like like have you heard the fucking tape for real? It's just... So after being charged with Edwards's murder, Ian was brought into an interview room alone. Mm-hmm. And this was after they found the luggage. This is after they've now discovered Leslie and...

Please, Ian. He doesn't know this. So Detective Chief and Superintendent Arthur Benfields in Superintendent Rob Tyrell. It's either Tyrell or Tyrell. I like Tyrell because Game of Thrones. Tyrell is fun. We'll go with it. They came in and they just stand there for a second and just look at him. Hey bud. I mean, he's just like whatever because he's because he's so cool. So about everybody. They come in and they just toss Leslie Sox shoes Closing and the necklace on the table in front of him mm-hmm and they informed him that they found these buried on the moors And they were like, you know what else we found they we found these on top of her body And they said you know, it's weird

We also found photos of her in your luggage at the railway station when we took that ticket out of that prayer book which you left out for everybody. Did he shart then? He didn't. So they said, so he just, they said, do you want to say anything? And he said, not at present. Yeah. So they said, okay, cool. We just want you to listen really quick to this tape we found too. But he probably enjoyed that. So they started, so they go to tap and he goes, I know the tape. Yeah, because I made it like, I don't give shit. And he listened, they said he listened with his head in his hands. Like he wouldn't look at them. That's interesting.

And then he said, he said, okay, I took the photos of her. And that's me on that tape. Yeah. And he said, but when she left my house, she left alive. Why would he even save that? And they were like, wait, what? And he said she was brought to me by two men, David Smith, and another man. Ah.

And I took the photos of her. That's what we agreed. I wanted the photos. I'd like, sure, charge me with that. I sent her on her way, and they took her, and that was the last I've seen her. So now he's saying David Smith killed her. Uh-huh. So they were like, okay. So they do the same technique with Myra. They throw the clothes in front of her.

They do the whole thing because they're not gonna have the same story. They start playing the audio tape and she just says I have nothing to say nothing to say and they were like, do you what? They're like, no, no, no, you're going to say something. And she said, I'm ashamed. That's all she could say. So then they do the same thing to David Smith, because now he's been implicated. So they're going to do it. I had to hear that. David Smith started sobbing when he heard the tape. Because yeah, he hasn't heard this like this. He was not present for that. Right. So he starts sobbing. So they're like, yeah, that's, that's quite a reaction. I believe that that's probably genuine. Right. So then October 21st, 1965, both Myron and Ian were officially charged with Leslie and Downey's murder. Good. So after Leslie, they'd started looking further into these photos that they found in the photo albums and

in the luggage. And these are the ones of them posing on the moors because now they found Leslie through them. So rather like, this is real. These are grave markers. So they realize, you know what, we got to really take these seriously. So Detective Joe Munzi, who had a very special interest in the case of John Kilbride. Like he was very focused on that case.

He wanted so badly to solve it. He had done a recreation of the case, like of his last day, just to try to find something and his brother. I think his brother Terry was the one that volunteered to play John in that recreation. So they went like hard to try to find this. And John is the body that they've never found? No, Keith is the only one. Keith is, okay.

Keith is, okay. Keith is, okay. Keith is the only one. Okay. So Detective Joe Munsey, he had the special interest in John Kilbred. He was walking out there with Inspector Chatech and crime scene photographer Mike Masheter, I believe. So they took the crime scene photographer Mike Masheter out there because they wanted to use the photo that they had that they could like put it up

and see where this site was, which the mores are like 400. It's going to feel like, you know, like it's vast. That's crazy that they were able to identify it. It's insane. So they ended up because they stumbled upon a place that looked just like the photo. Yeah. And then they had Mike take a photo so they could compare the two photos so they could really

measure really the place. And so they stumbled upon this place and they look and they're like, this is the one of Myra holding puppet, the dog, and it's the one where she's looking at the ground. Underneath her, like she's crouched on top of it. Now they were like, this is it, this is exactly it. So Chadik, Inspector Chadik, takes a stick and he just pushes it into the soft ground there and he pulls it back out And he holds it up and the smell of decomposition is on the end of the stick. Oh, no. It was John Kilbred's grave The investigators brought his shoe to his home for his parents to identify first and his brother Terry later said

Quote it broke my mom's heart and my dad just sat in the chair with his head between his knees. Oh my God, I can imagine. Yeah. His mother Sheila was the one who made dinner for him every night and bought him the presents for his birthday. She had to go identify him at the morgue that day. And she said she could tell by the football button she had sewn onto his jacket that that was him. Because he was very decomposed. It had been over a year. And he had also been in a grave that had water running through it. Yeah. So when questioned about the photos of her crouching in happily gazing onto the grave of John Kilbred, which they were able to determine that the date of that photo was after he was buried there. Yeah. You were able to tell that.

So they questioned Maya about that and she denied it. No, I didn't know that he was there. We have a picture. And she was like, yeah, weird. I had no idea. And he was there. Okay. And they're like, oh, okay. I would stab her with the football buttons.

Well, so what did this is, this is pretty amazing, I think. So what Detective Joe Munse did because he was getting sick of her shit Yeah, and he was like, okay, that's cool I'm gonna put to you so he put together a random little album With just random photos of her and Ian and just like Normal photos and then he interspersed photos of Leslie and John's decomposed corpses Variously like through this good so she'sicking, he's flicking through it for her and she has no idea when another one is going to come.

Just like what they did to people. Exactly. So she turned away when she saw them and said, I don't want to see anymore. But he was like, OK, asshole. And he was like, OK, nope, I'm going to push this even further into your face. So he put it even closer to her and he was like, oh no, honey.

Look right at what you did. So eventually she screams, take them away, I'm not looking at them. I would hit her over the head with them. Like, not only are you going to look at these because I don't even give a quarter of a fuck about your sudden delicate constitution that you have suddenly grown, right, that you somehow have just grown out of nowhere after murdering innocent babies. But now I'm gonna use a fucking, one of those purple

Elmer's glue sticks that little kids use. I'm gonna fucking stick them to your eyeballs so you don't have the fucking choice. Since their parents, who identified them in the horrific state at the goddamn morgue, will never have the choice to look away from the images in their mind of their babies like that for the rest of their fucking life. There it is.

You asshole! I got it. I'd take those away from you. Take those away from you. Do you think Ann West wanted to look at her fucking child being used pornographically by you two sick fucks? You know what they should do. They should literally just hang them up every day in her cell. They should take an Elmer's glue stick and stick them to her fucking eyeballs. But she couldn't see them that way. I don't care.

No, I know I want her to see them. Fuck her. I know. I want her to see them. Burn her eyeballs with a fucking lighter. No, let's not. Let's see. God damn it.

So she could see them at her cell every day. That's better. So he didn't say all that. You're like, let's hurt her. He didn't, oh, I want her. I do too. I want her to hurt her. I just said I want to hurt her. I do too. I want to hurt her. I just said I want to stab her with the football buttons.

I want to hurt her with everything I have. I truly do. So then, he didn't, like I said, he didn't say all that. Yeah, no, he didn't. No, but he was real annoyed with her. So he just kind of like stepped off, and then he looked at her, and without any context, he just started quoting a Bible

passage. And he said, suffer little children to come into me and forbid them not for as such as the kingdom of God. And then he left. Oh. And she was like, what the fuck? Yeah. Because he was trying to like, because she's making a total mockery of religion, right, pretending that she, like her fucking prayer book would not share in it. And she's trying to pretend she's still very much, like she goes back and forth, because on the stand she wouldn't swear on a Bible. Interesting.

Which is fine if you're not religious, because I probably wouldn't either. But she says that she has a prayer book that she's like, what? I can't. So he was just using it as like a good like, can your face just swear on the Bible? Yeah, you can. Oh, I didn't know that. You can use your own like if you use the

Quran or you use the you know, any any other kind of like book of worship. Holy book. Um, so when he did this with Ian, because he did the same thing with Ian, yeah, he was totally unaffected by the pictures. I was like, whatever. That's not funny. And he just, and then he was just like, okay, yeah, we, we did intend to take that photo of John Killbred's grave. Like we thought it was funny. Yeah, because he was just like, yep, that's what we did. And then he was like, and you know what, I did kill Edward. Like I definitely did that. And I hit him like 14 times. And then he was like, I did take the photos of Leslie, but like I said, David and the other guy, he stuck to it.

So they're sitting and they're waiting for their trial. While this is happening, Maira sent a letter to her mom saying, can you send me some like better heels? Because hers were trampy looking. Her heels? That's what's important. And then she had her lawyer ask the court to allow her to get her hair done and died. Because, and I quote, this is what they sent to the court. Uh-uh. Her dark roots are becoming very obvious. This fact has been the subject of press comment,

which is naturally a source of irritation to our client It's irritating to you that your roots are growing in prison because you're in prison because you murdered children You know what's irritating you murder children also I Can't how did they find a hairdresser that was down to do that girl's hair? Well, it was denied Like what I feel like fuck you know you oh my. You know what? I would do her fucking hair and I would leave that bleach on and I would keep reapplying and read me like, it's not lightning. It's just got a breath. That bitch would, I've given myself scalp abrasions because like I love to be super blonde. I would give her so many scalp abrasions that she would just be a scalp abrasion. I wish you were here for this

Fuck me, too. No one thought to do that well, but it just the fact that they were like it's really irritating her that the press is commenting on her dark roots Like she's got dark roots that are not just hair dark roots run deep. Yeah right from the womb. Oh shit So December 2nd 1965. Sorry. Can you imagine being a lawyer like? No, I understand fighting for certain things. Yeah, you're gonna fight for this bitch's hair. Yeah. No, I'd be like I quit I feel like we're not gonna do that. Myro. No, go ahead. Sorry. So Ian was charged with murder and myro was charged as an accessory after the fact. That does change later. Okay. But initially that's what the charges were. Is that gonna like that? Now during the committal hearings in early December and committal hearings are where they determine

whether the case is gonna be held in open court. Uh-huh. Basically. They were protected behind glass and actually a journalist took a photo of them that I had never seen before until I looked this photo up after reading this. Ooh, well posted. Because you always see like the normal photos of them that everybody's seen like that, you know, the ones of them on the moors and the ones they took at the police station, but this was a weird, like, candid one. It was just weird. Is it the two of them together? They weren't allowed to take photos, and so they got in trouble for publishing this, but

it's them standing in court together next to each other and there's glass around them and it's just strange to see them in like a public setting, I guess. I don't know what it is. It's like very weird, but we'll post it for sure. Now and they put glass for their own protection. Yeah. During one of the hearings, and this just, this like, just my heart. So during one of the hearings, Ann West was on the stand, and she's answering things, and then all of a sudden, she just stopped, and she looked at my run, she said, I'll kill you.

I'll kill you. An innocent baby, she can sit staring at me, and she took a little baby's life, the beast, and then she just kept calling her a tramp before dissolving into sobs. I feel so bad. Meanwhile, while this is happening, Ian and Miro are holding hands and comforting each other and Miro whispered to him, I'm not a tramp. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. You are the tramp. You are the tramp. I hate her so much.

I'm not a tramp. I'm not a tramp. And then Ian was like, no, you're not a tramp. Oh my, like that's what you're worried about right now. That's what that's both tramp. That's both tramp. You are both tramp. You're worse than a tramp.

I can't even think of what you are. Fucking asshole. I would have broken the fucking glass. I would have killed her right then. You can just imagine Ann West's, like, just, can you imagine being, like, I would not be controllable. Yeah.

So Leslie's biological father, Terry. Yeah. Because remember, Alan is her stepfather, right? Terry and her uncle Patrick, they were attended these hearings as well, obviously. Yeah. And they wanted to kill as well, obviously. Yeah. And they wanted to kill these two, obviously.

Yes. And they attacked a police car outside that they thought had my run in it. Oh shit. But what happened was because the mobs outside of these things got so huge and dangerous because people wanted to fucking kill them. Yeah. I wish they just let them out. I was going to say they should have just let them.

Just let them out and let the crowd take care of it. In sure, he says like this, they like parents should be allowed to kill their children's murderers. Oh, I believe. Come at me. I believe wholeheartedly that if you are, I mean, there's audio tape.

Yeah, there's photos. It's proof of evidence. Like if that happens, you should be as a parent. You should all be allowed in a locked room with that person to destroy them. Just do whatever you want. To destroy them. I would support that 100%.

Well, they attacked this police car. And what had happened was they had used decoys. Damn it. And Ian and my row were still inside waiting for that to happen. They were like tackled down by police obviously. Yeah. And they were told, you know, you can't do that. I'd be like, I can do whatever the fuck I want

for the rest of ever. Yeah, I'd be like, oh, no, I'm definitely gonna murder them just so you know, thanks, though. But so Terry said, he said, I would have smashed their heads in if I was given the chance. Same. Now December 8th, David Smith took the stand and he got immunity for his cooperation with the case so he could not be charged for this.

I don't think he should have been charged. I don't think so either. December 16th, there was bad weather. So Ian and Mira had to spend the night in cells under the courthouse instead of being transported back to the jail. So they asked, so in the morning, well they wanted to but they're like, you're fucking high if you think you're gonna stay together. And then one of the guards got called over by Myra and she was like, can I have some makeup for the morning? What?

And he was like, what? He was like, no, no. Here's a crayola crayon, bitch, do with it what you will. Oh no, he didn't even get one. Not even. You know what he gave her? He said, no, but here's some hot tea and he had poured salt in it.

Oh my god, that's awesome. I love that. Which is like, I want to shake your hands. Yeah, enjoy bitch. That's so awesomely just like, boo. Because she thinks that she's going to get like, I'll be saying tea. Here's your hot tea bitch and then it has salt in it.

That's the piping hot tea bitch. End of March, Myra got to have her fucking hair bleached. They allowed it. Who did they find to do it? No idea. Why did she not burn the shit out of her scale? No idea. I would have hurt her. So Tuesday, the 19th of April 1966, that's when their trial began. Because it was during the committal hearing, obviously, they were like, yeah, we need to all try. I'm shook that she was allowed to get her hair done. It bothered me. I was like, why?

That's insane. Why was she allowed to bleach her hair? What judge was like, you know what? Yeah, cool, cool. It doesn't make sense. So the trial judge, who was a different judge, is Judge Justice Fenton Ackinson. They were charged only with the murder of John Kilbride,

Leslie N. Downey, and Edward Evans, because they did not admit to Pauline and Keith until 20 years later. Well, they found Pauline at that point, did they even know about? They didn't find Pauline for 20 more years. Wow. And Keith, they have never found.

Right. So at this point, Pauline's family had no idea that she was involved in this. So Maureen got on the stand during the trial. And Maureen testified, this is the thing, at first you're like, yeah, Maureen, and then she just goes, what did she do? Maureen testified against her sister at trial

and said she's pretending she wasn't familiar with certain places like the market where they got John Kilbride. Yeah. She had said on the stand, Myra, that she had never been to that market before. Her sister said, oh no, she was very familiar with that market. Like, should that's a. Her sister said, oh no, she was very familiar with that market.

Like, should that's a lie. And she said they had also discussed Leslie's disappearance one day together because it was in the newspaper. Right. And Maureen had mentioned how her mother must be such a wreck. And she said, Maira laughed. And she was like, and it bothered me ever since. Yeah.

She also said, Maira hated children and babies. And was just a chieftain by her own baby. And she was like, and it bothered me ever since. Yeah. She also said, Myra hated children and babies. And was just, She even made a mom. She even made a mom baby. And she was like, and that's just the way does Myra was pissed about this, sent a letter to their mother being like,

can you believe her? Her mother was like a total unable or two. I was gonna say, I would be like, I'm not writing to you anymore. I'd be like, you're real gross. See you later.

David and Maureen did admit on the stand that they were getting money from a newspaper deal about this case. So that didn't help people thinking they were being shady because once money becomes involved they're like, well, who's side you on now? But because you know, now you have a horse in the race. So, well, the John Kilbred case was being tried because they went like, they did the Edward Evans, then John Kilbred and then Leslie and I'm glad that they all had separate tries.

Yes. So while John Kilbred case was being tried Ian and Myra were passing notes to each other and giggling with each other the entire time. And why was that not stopped? Not real sure. Ian took the stand and said the same thing about Leslie with David and the other because this was after the John killbred one. Yeah He said the same thing about Leslie with David Smith and the other man. He said I didn't kill her. She left my house

He that's what he said on the stand But he fucked up. What did he say twice? What did he say? He said he put in this is awful He put a handkerchief in her mouth and a scarf to cover her face like half her face Mm-hmm, and then he said the words just before the end. And the judge was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, the end of what? Right. And he was like, and it's not like he was like, oh, the end of the photo session or something.

He literally was like, uh, um, the life. Uh, and then he said, maybe when I was opening the tripod, and he was like, that's not the end of anything. Why did you say the end? And he was like, I don't know. And then he was just allowed to keep going. Okay. So that was the first thing that they were like, oh, okay. And then he said the phrase, after completion, we all got dressed and went downstairs. So, and they were like completion of what? Like you raped her, is what you're saying?

And then he denied, he even said that. And one jury member, because he denied it, then his attorney denied it. And one juror stood up and was like, nope, he said it. I was here. Like, we were here. So he knew he fucked that up. So that there tells you right there that he was like, yeah, it I was here. Hi, we were here. So he knew he fucked that up So that there tells you right there that he was like, yeah, I fucked it up

Well about myra on the stand when I was getting about her he said He I mean myra is such a fucking idiot because this dude is such a dick He said quote she was my typist in the office. I dictated to her in my office this tended to wrap over I guess And it's like what the fuck like he's acting like he's like I'm gonna save you and then on the stand He's like I'll give a fuck. He's like what I am I just like I've dictated that term so myra took the stand next and myra showed no genuine remorse during this trial She tried but it did not come out right. But she's a sociopath so she can't.

In fact, she stuck her tongue out at someone at one point on the stand. You're shitting me. And Ian smiled many times at the judge. Like, the judge would look over at him in the box and he'd just see like, give them a big cheesy smile. Oh my god. And then Maira on the stand, and she contradicts this about a hundred different times. She said, quote, I made my own decisions. Ian never made me do anything I did not want to do.

Oh, she literally said that. So you fucked yourself by saying that, sister. So then after she claimed, when they asked her about the Edward Evans murder, she claimed that she was in the kitchen when it all happened, she heard his screams and she threw her hands over her ears and was like horrified. Oh, I'm so sorry. Now go through that. She now she first said that that she was in the kitchen and Ian agreed because Ian is the whole plan here is that Ian knows

He's fucked Ian knows that he's going away forever. He's never getting out. He's fine. Yeah, but he said I knew Myra could get out if we played our cards right and he And he wanted to do that. And his whole thing wasn't even for her. He wanted her to tell the story. He wanted his story, his horror story to be told like he wanted to become the bullsman. So it literally had nothing to do with her at all. No, I love that. And so he was trying to get her off So he was making sure that he was agreeing with things like yep, she was in the kitchen later He says no, she was in the living room. Right. They discovered arterial blood spatter on her shoes. She was not in the kitchen. It wasn't like any kind of other blood spatter and you only get that when you're near an actual pumping artery that's flying out blood.

And she tried to say that those shoes were just left in the room. Uh-huh. But there was no blood inside the shoes. So feet were in the shoes when that happened. So like, good try, honey. But so she said she put her hands over ears and couldn't listen to it. It was so horrifying. The attorney general said,

this court has heard more than one scream in the room where you were and she said, yes. And then the attorney general said, the screams of a little girl of 10 of your sex madam, did you put your hands over your ears when you heard the screams of Lesley and Downey and she said, no, are you kidding? Because they were like, okay, so you're this delicate flower who put their hands over their ears because you heard this like 17 year old screaming in the other room, but not when you were in the little girl. In the room while she was screaming

and you were shoving a handkerchief in her mouth and telling her you were gonna smack her. That makes sense to you. And she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, you're right. Cool. And then she's like, no, I was just, I wasn't there. And she immediately said she feels shame all that and they responded to her.

Your shame is a counterfeit shame, mishandling. I love that. Like, you're a fake ass bit. Literally. That's exactly what that translates. Literally. Use a fake ass hoe. So on May 6th, Ian was found guilty of all three murders. And my row was guilty of the murders of Leslie Ann Downey and Edward Evans and guilty of harboring Ian Brady, knowing that he had killed John Kilbred.

Okay, so she wasn't... Why? ...because they just couldn't connect her to actually murdering John Kilbred, but they could to the other two. They were both sentenced to life in prison because four weeks before they were arrested, the death penalty in the UK was abolished.

Oh, four weeks before. Well, you know what, though, I'm glad that they had to live in their shows. I know, but it's like if any two people deserve to hang for their crimes, it's these two. 100% is absolutely the same. And the families deserve to be able to have that. Well, Myra was later described during the trial as, quote, a quiet, controlled, impassive witness who lied remorselously. That's how they described her.

In 1994, Arthur Benfield, the retired police superintendent, said, quote, she should have hanged. She was pure evil. It might be fair for her to rot in prison. Yeah. So all these inspectors see her for what she is. Right. They're like, don't, all these trained people.

Exactly. Like, don't even think about it. So Ian went to Durham prison. And Miro went to Holloway prison. They went to separate prisons. Exactly. Like don't even think about it. So Ian went to Durham prison and Miro went to Holloway prison. They went to separate prisons. Yeah. Seeing each other after they were sentenced was the last time they saw each other again. Bye bye. Uh Miro was immediately attacked in prison. Well she, because they put her into like this like solitary at first because they knew that it was going to be bad. Too bad. When she was released in a general population, 10 inmates invited her to a card game. Oh my god. And she was like, cool.

And then they just beat the shit out of her. Incredible. Yes. Child murderers don't do well in prison. L-O-L. What happened to Ian? Yeah. So she then asked for solitary and they were like, no.

And they were also like, you're going to be in here for a long time. You can't be in solitary for that long. But they did assign a guard to walk around with her. She couldn't go anywhere without a guard next to her, because people tried to kill her. So she did lodge an appeal saying that it fucked up her chances of a fair trial to be tried next to Ian.

Uh-huh. So she's already turning to be like, he's fucked up. But you chose to be with him for your life. So you probably should have thought about that. Well, they were also like, no, honey, you were exactly who you were during trial. Right. And in fact, you told us on the stand that he never made you do anything. And they also said, and Ian actually tried his damnedest to make sure that you weren't implicated in anything. So right fuck right off so that question mark question mark

Thank you for trying come again, but don't well She also got a special privilege which pisses me off and it pisses everybody off to what she got her grand Like her grand was able to visit her because she was dying Oh grand, but honestly, I think she should have had to miss out on seeing her grand ever again. Yeah. You shouldn't, no one gives a shit. Maybe people just felt like grand wanted to see her, so that's why they did it. I'd be like, no, it's not good for you to see her.

No, I know, absolutely not. Grand, look at what she did in your house. Yeah, it's no, so Ian spent 19 years in prison where he was beaten by inmates and had to be put in solitary for the remainder and escorted by a guard as well. Then he was eventually after the 19 years transferred to Ashworth High Security Psychiatric Hospital. This was in 1985 and he stayed there until he died. Why did he get moved to psychiatric hospital? Because he had lots of psychiatric problems. hospital because he had lots of psychiatric problems. Oh, for the first three years that they talked through letters because they

corresponded weekly. I thought that wasn't a lot. No, totally was. They did break up a couple of times through prison. Like what? Yeah, you're broken up because you can't be together. Like that's stupid. Well, they also a petition to get married because married prisoners one get to see each other, and they had petitioned earlier, even before they were sentenced to prison, because if you're married to each other, you are not forced to go on the stand

and testify against your spouse. Uh-huh. So that was denied, though. Yeah. Bye. They're like, no. No, no, no. This is not a whole union. Now, I'm going to end this part with this really crazy thing that they did

They used to write secret codes in their letters. Oh, because they never do anything, you know normal So they had something called a six seven eight code. Okay, and if one of them Underlined the date on the letter it meant that there was a secret code in this letter. How do they even figure out what that meant between the two of them? I have no idea. So the secret text would start on the sixth line. That's the sixth. The seventh and eighth words would be the first two words of the message. Okay. Then the seventh and eighth words on each remaining line would be the rest of the message. You have to give it to them, like they were parked.

Oh, they're smart. They really were. I mean, I'm sure Ian came up with this one, though. Yeah. Way later, when they broke up, like for good, and they started really going at each other, which we're going to talk about in part four, because it's a lot of fun. I can't wait. They started really coming at each other.

Ian was like, well, I'm just going to reveal all the things in the secret codes that in the secret letters that we wrote, because she's a fucked up individual, and I can make sure that you don't give her for all, because she wrote me some fucked up shit. And she freaked out when she heard this and tried to do damage control ahead of time, because she knew what was in the letters. What did she try to, how does she gonna get rid of that? So she said, oh, well, just so you know, if he ever releases this, he did like to have me sometimes write him like things that would like arouse him sexually, and it was usually stuff about like hurting kids. Uh-huh.

So she used to write fondly, and like, in sexually explicit ways about harming children, and now she's like, oh, he just wanted me to do that. Please don't think that it's me who's doing that. And it's like, oh, bitch, you just showed all your cards. Right. Because also when she did that, Ian was like, bitch, I wasn't gonna reveal it.

Right. Like, he just did it because he knew, like, she's gonna out herself. That's fine. Wow. Like, he's manipulating her from his from behind us. Psychiatric hospital. So I'm just going to read you one letter that they wrote to each other that has a secret code in it and the secret code was written by Myra.

Okay. So this is what the letter says. I'll tell you the letter and then I'm going to read you the code. Okay. I've been thinking for a while. Why don't you ask if you can go to the church on Sundays so we can at least see each other there? You get someone to help with this. See the governor if necessary. There are places in the chapel for people in your situation Ian. So ask someone to look into it for you. Now this is when they were being held in jails and they were in the same jail like before the trial.

There's someone here who goes with two officers. She's in here for killing her own children and also for attempting to throw acid and her boyfriend's face. No one likes her. She's on Rule 43, of course. Your mention of facial expressions in your last letter. I could have seen the one on Brett. His face was a picture when you stared him out. So now I'm gonna reach you the the code. Yeah. Why don't you get someone to throw acid on Brett? Brett was Leslie's four-year-old brother. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Yep. She was requesting that he had one of his criminal people out in the outside. Throw acid on Leslie and Downey's four-year-old brother. I gotta go, are we done? I gotta go.

And that's the end of part three. Fuck. And part four is going to be the discovery of Pauline Reed's grave, which was a long time coming. We're gonna talk more about Ann West. We're gonna talk more about David Smith. We'll talk about Ian and Maira's correspondence and how it became oh so sour later. I can't wait to hear them turn on

each other because- Oh yeah, we're gonna talk about their health failures and how they both died because it's- To the livers just like fall out of their assholes. No. So much it's chef's kiss especially especially Ian's because he wasn't allowed to die and it's like my favorite thing ever He wanted to die so badly and they would let him It's great. See trust me. There's some good stuff coming after that. I'm excited to see the picture of them in the last And we'll post that on Instagram. We'll definitely post that but I know this one was it was tough Oh, yeah, it was but we're through the toughest, everybody. Now we're at the part where we can all like skip along to the beat. Yeah, to the beat. Now we're

going to be at like the bonus information that I just feel like it's information that's important to this case. Because it's a really unique case and it's a unique relationship they had. It's a wild. It's a unique situation all around. So I think it's important to talk about that and her bids for parole. Yeah. How it was stopped by the families, how the families banded together It's just it's all gonna come in part four. Wow. And part four will be on Wednesday. I promise. By the end of the day on Wednesday. By the end of the day on Wednesday. So hopefully O.D. Everybody can take a deep breath So hopefully O.D. Everybody can take a deep breath and go ahead and follow us on Instagram

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