Morbid - Episode 169: Ian Brady & Myra Hindley AKA The Moors Murderers Part 4

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

This week wraps up Alaina’s four part series on the monster/garbage people, Ian Brady and Mryra Hindley. Don’t worry, this part isn’t nearly as rough as the past few weeks. We go over Ian and Myra’s secret coded messages, take digs at the demise of their relationship and get to hear all about the end of their stupid rude lives!  Books used in this episode: Ian Brady:The Untold Story of the Moors Murders By Dr. Alan Kneightly Evil Relations By David Smith & Carol Ann Lee Depraved: The Moors Murders By C.G.C. Cook The Monstering of Myra Hindley By Nina Wilde As always, thank you to our sponsors: Pretty Litter:  Get the world’s smartest litter without leaving home by visiting PrettyLitter.com and use promo code MORBID for 20% off your first order! Gabi: Take a few minutes  right now and stop overpaying on your car and home insurance! Go to Gabi.com/MORBID See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. And I'm Ash. And this is morbid. We have finally reached part four of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the Morris murders, Omega, get out of my brain. Honestly, get out of my brain, get out of my face, get out of my ear drums, get out of here. I honestly cannot read about these two fools any longer. So we have reached this point at the perfect time

because I am starting to lose my sanity. You know it's crazy too, like you're getting so much more because you're filtering out like the most yucky stuff so that I don't crumble into pieces. Yeah, I sure am. And like everybody listening doesn't crumble into pieces. Yeah, and I've run across some, I don't know if I mentioned this in part two, but I think you did. I don't think I did. And it was a truly harrowing experience. I will

definitely say that. I was looking for folk, because while I'm researching cases, it's just like my brain has to see things. So I'll Google it helps you kind of write the story better. Yeah. And I just need it in my head. So I was googling something about Leslie and Downey, the 10-year-old, that they, the most horrific murder, in my opinion. And I just typed in her name. And I've done that a million times before

while doing something or finding the pictures. And then, poof, the photo that, one of the photos that Ian took of her, it's edited. Well, she's still alive. Just like, you know, the shoulders up kind of thing are like the chest up, like you don't see anything technically graphic, I would say. But you know what's happening in that photo and she's gagged.

And I'm not kidding you guys. And she's 10. Be careful what you Google in this case because that shit is honestly haunting me. I cannot get it out of my brain. I know what's happening in that photo. It's so different from just like an autopsy photo or like so different.

So different. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because it's not gruesome. There's no blood. But you know what's happening in that photo and you know what just happened on that tape. And I can't.

It's like the picture of, and I can't think of her name, the last victim of Ben Rhodes, the picture right before she, like it was taken right before she died. Yeah. You look at it and you're like, I know what's going to happen. Yeah. Like it's so haunting. And this one, this is a trial. This is even worse because it's in the process of the assault.

Right. I mean, this is, this is horror. Yeah. What true, true horror. So I just want to warn everybody, I'm sure, I'm sure some people are going to run out and Google the assaults. Right. I mean, this is horror. What? True, true horror. So I just want to warn everybody. I'm sure some people are going to run out and Google the name now. But for anybody who is looking up photos of this case and not looking to see that, I want

to warn you, if you Google Leslie and Downey with their names or without their names, it will pop up somewhere in the Google images. So please be careful when you're looking. If you don't want to see it, I really don't recommend it. It is truly haunting. I know I was scared to come across it. I made Alina go get the pictures for the Instagram post, but normally I got them and I was like,

can you please go look for those because I don't want to find that? And she was like, I don't want you to find that. So yes, and I did it in front of her and I was like, I saw it again and I was like, I just saw it again to find that. So yes, and I did it in front of her, and I was like, I saw it again, and I was like, I just saw it again. I was like, this real reaction. So I just wanted to put that out there, though. So there's that.

Sometimes it's not the crime scene photos of the autopsy photos that are the worst. It's during photos. The psychological ones. It's like, woof. But alas, part four, everybody, I mean, there's gonna be a couple of things that are gonna be sad.

We're gonna be talking about the family, you said that. But we're gonna also be talking about their, I mean, suffering deaths, which is fun, fun, fun. Full family. When you said in part three that they Ian really wanted to die, and they wouldn't let him die, so I'm really excited to hear about that.

Oh yeah, and we're gonna talk about that. This is gonna be a much more cathartic episode. I feel very happy about it. They turn on each other. It's gonna be great. So just know that this is less, way less heavy than part three was for sure. I'm very happy about that.

Yeah. Well, before we get into that, we have some merch. Yeah, that's like fun stuff. We're transitioning there, but exciting. Yeah. So we started working with a new merch company called Liquid Graphics. Don't worry.

Murder apparel is still like in, we're still working with them. And actually now everybody's working together in like one harmonious team. Yeah, it's wonderful. And it's awesome. So if you would like to go buy some of our merch, you can use, you can go to shop.morbidpodcast.com. Yay. And it's fun things there.morbidpodcast.com. Yay, and it's fun things there. There's fun things there.

We're gonna be adding stuff all the time. Things are gonna get filtered out as we add things, but for right now, that's what we got and everything looks wicked cool and I want all of it. It'll be constantly rotated in and out different designs and styles and all that. You're never gonna be bored.

Yeah, so that's exciting news. And I think we are also going to make our second episode this week a listener tails episode. Just to, I feel like you need it. Yeah, I think everybody needs it. I think we all need a good, like, I mean, listener tails are generally fun and they make you laugh.

Yeah. They're everything we need them to be. I'll try to get some silly ones together. Yeah, we'll get some fun ones. We'll put some spooky ones in there, but like. We'll be a medley. It's a much lighter one. So we're gonna give you that.

That'll be Saturday, like always. And then we do have an exciting announcement happening at the end of the week. And it's so hard not to say what it is right now. I'm like bursting up the seams. So everybody wait for that and we will update you as we get close to it. Oops.

It's going to be one of those things when I was teasing the merch. It's going to be one hour. One hour. But I'll do it differently because. It'll be Friday, I believe. Yeah, yeah. So Friday, everybody, look out on our social media.

Check your eyes, feel. And we'll be occurring. So I think that's really all we had to chat about before we get into this. Yeah. Let's begin. Okay. How we know just kidding.

So I think when we left off, they're in prison, they're starting to, I mean, they were starting, well, that no, right now they were, they were writing to each other. Yeah, and the secret code. Yeah, they're still doing the secret code that was like, why don't you have someone poor acid on Brett? And that's Leslie and Downey's four-year-old brother. That's absolutely terrific. You told like a little like glimpse of something

where they, myro was already trying to turn on Ian and they were like, he did everything in his power to keep you. Yes, she was already trying to say that she didn't have a fair trial because she shouldn't have been tried along with Ian. Meanwhile, they were like holding hands and giggling the whole time. So it's like really, you didn't enjoy

her. And they said, no, you were represented exactly how you are in your trial. And it wouldn't have changed if it was just you. And they also said, and Ian did everything in his power to actually exonerate you. So it actually, by now, by now, it's gonna be a series of moments and miras, the rest of her relatively short life, that people are just like, good try, Myra. I feel like that's just like, a whole rest of her life is just a big series of good try, Myra.

Good try. Never works out for, she's lame. So what's funny is in the like 60s and 70s, and I think I mentioned this briefly, but I didn't get to get into it yet, is when Ian started carrying out his hunger strikes. Oh, I didn't know he did a hunger strike. Oh yeah, that was his way.

He often was trying to slowly kill himself through hunger strikes. Wow. They started way back in the 60s, 70s when they first went into prison. He kept it up until the very end. He would do this on a diet. He would do, he started at 28 days.

He went without eating. Damn. Talk about a fast. 52 days and then 72 days. Without eating anything at all. Sometimes he would drink like tea with milk in it. Okay. But like, not like night with milk in it. Okay, but like not like

not a cracker. Yeah. And then he went for like a ton of weeks. I'm not I've saw varying degrees of weeks just just a ton of weeks. All the weeks. I mean even one week is crazy. But what he said was he said about it. He said quote, I was forced fed by having a block of wood put between my teeth and through a hole in the center of the block. A rubber tube was forced fed by having a block of wood put between my teeth and through a hole in the center of the block. A rubber tube was forced down my throat and into my stomach. Fear evaporates in the absence of hope. Although a prisoner, I was an individual, not simply my prison number, 605217.

The strike gives me a powerful high. I was more contented, slowly dying than living under the conditions I was forced to endure. How about all the conditions you forced, other children to endure? You absolute shittered. Like I was forced to endure, eating. I was forced to endure not being treated like a fucking emperor.

Like, oh, you know what's weird? You literally raped children, so nobody gives a fuck about you. He was forced to endure less than hospitable. Is this when you always say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, yeah. Honey, baby, sweetie, pie. I'm so sorry.

And so in the beginning, like I said, Ian and Maya are still writing each other constantly, like literally multiple times a week. In secret code. In secret code, but they're like, they're still, you know, she's in love with him still. It's like, girl, it's not gonna pan out. Well, and it's important to note that later,

she's gonna claim with great gusto out of nowhere that he abused her, he raped her, she hated him, she was trapped in this relationship, and that's why she allowed him to involve her in these crimes, but she was just this innocent, battered woman. But okay, but let's just put this alongside a letter that she wrote him early on. And I want you to tell me if this is similar. Yeah, I'll say what I have to say.

Dearest Ian. Dearest. Hello, my little Harry, and I don't know what this is. Oh my God. I googled it, I can't find it anywhere. Tell me if anyone knows what this means, help me. Hello my Harry, my little Harry Gerklchin. No.

I looked it up, it doesn't appear to be in another language, I don't know, unless I'm missing it completely. Gerklchin? Gerklchin. I had a beautifully tender dream about you last night and a woke feeling safe and secure thinking I was in the harbor of your arms. Even when I realized I wasn't,

the thought of your presence remained with me, leaving me tranquilly calm and strong. Each day that passes, I miss you more and more. You are the only thing that keeps my heart beating, my only reason for living. Without you, what does life mean? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Freedom without you means nothing too. I've got one interest in life and that's you. That's you baby. We had six short but precious years together. Six years of memories to sustain us until we're together again to make dreams realities. until we're together again to make dreams realities. Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena.

And Ash! And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999.

So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Here you are. Join us, as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance, episode by episodes. Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, ee-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r- Okay, who I was afraid of and trapped in the relationship with. Right, right, right. But I feel so, so safe with you. I miss you so much. I don't want to exist without you.

Yeah. Even though existing with you was probably, like, so abusive and horrible. Mm-hmm. KK. And also, you're finally in prison. If he really did abuse and rape you, that's dope. Now you're away from him. Exactly.

Like, no. No. You wouldn't be writing him if that was the case. No, it literally does not make sense. That doesn't make any sense at all. Does not make sense at all. And we're gonna continue to see her just fluctuate between like, you know, the love of my life

and then when it seems to be convenient for her, she's like, oh my God, I was trapped in that relationship. Don't put me with him. It's like whatever is convenient at that day. Exactly. So she's the worst, he's the worst. And David Smith, you know, David Smith, who's the brother-in-law,

Maureen's husband witnessed the Edward Evans murder. That poor dude. Had to help him, you know, put the body upstairs. David, at this time, excuse me, at this time Maureen was very pregnant. I think I mentioned it last time that she was very pregnant during the trial. In fact, they moved her testifying up

so that she was worried that she was gonna go into labor on the stand. Oh my God, imagine. Yeah, what a day. David and Maureen though were harassed constantly because one people didn't believe that David wasn't part of it because Ian and Maureen implicated him

as being there for every murder. Maureen or Maira? Uh, Maira, excuse me, I'm sorry. And, um, Ian especially is in, in Maira, but really Ian was the one who was like, well, Lesley and down, down he was brought to me by David Smith. I took pictures of her and then I sent her on her way with David Smith. And you never let go of that story. And he didn't let go of it.

Uh, I think later he, later he fluctuated and went back and was like, yeah, I did it. Like he was so asshole. One of the assholes. Yeah, after his life was already ruined. Exactly, because he was like, well, no, it doesn't matter. Right. Because I put it out there.

And it's like, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. He's already done it. Right, exactly. So they were harassed. And again, she's pregnant. They had their baby. As they were shopping for baby clothes. She was spit on by people. Oh, God. She would come home like hysterical. Yeah. Um, so June 1968, David had reached his

breaking point because he couldn't go anywhere without being harassed. Yeah. People were coming to their house. They were calling their house. They couldn't go anywhere. One that more reen, like literally looks just like Myra. So imagine people were already mad at her and that she looks like Maira. Oh, the vitriol that must have come to her. 10 times worse. Yeah. And David ended up that he would take like long walks

by himself in the middle of the night because it was the only time that he could go where people weren't like chasing him. Yeah. June 1968, he actually ended up going to prison again. Why? Because he stabbed a man who confronted him, and called him a child murderer.

Oh, shit. Yeah. And he said he immediately knew exactly what he had done. And he was like, okay, so he went and turned himself in. That's really sad. He got three years in prison. That's it. I think, yeah.

So the guy didn't die. I think he was stabbed him. But during that time that he was in prison, Maureen started having an affair. Maureen. Maureen ends up being a real shipbag. Well, it's also like you brought him into this family. And now you're just gonna turn your back on him.

What he needs you. Like you all suck. And then she wrote him a letter saying that they were over in prison. Shut up. What a bitch. She in turn slit both of his wrists in prison, but he survived.

Oh, yeah. This is dark. Very dark. Maureen ended up being a real shipbag. I think I mentioned it in the last part. David had her, I mean, she had, they had three sons under six. I think Paul, John, and Mark, or David,

very biblical names. Okay. Okay. Remember? So by then, she was neglecting them. She wasn't caring now. She was even going out and leaving them under six. Again, they were malnourished.

They were sick, dirty. They ended up being taken away from her and they thrived without her. Okay. I'm so glad that they went on to be okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so that was, that was good because then he also got updates about that and they sent them things being like, look how they're thriving without her. So he was like cool. When he got out of prison, did he like see them? Well, he got out of prison and he took care of them. Good. He ended up working for a house,

like, and he bought a house. And he married a woman named Mary that he ended up being was till the end. So their life was just like, good together. Yeah. I felt really bad for David this whole time. He got kind of a bum rap. I mean, he's not like, it's not like he's this great guy, but like, he's also not the guy that like he's a bum rap.

He got a bum rap. Yeah. So the same year David went to prison in 1968. My rest started chatting with a well-known Christian social reformer and politician named Frank Packinham. He was also known as Lord Longford. That was what he was known as. Lord Longford. That's a great name. And his lifelong mission was prison reform, and he also loved taking on cases with social outcasts and very controversial cases. with social outcasts and very controversial cases. I enter Maira and Ian.

Perfect match. So at this point, now remember, Ian, Maira is a battered woman. Yeah. And she was forced into all of this. She had nothing to do with these murders. But he's her dinklchin. Well, she wanted conjugal visits with Ian. Right.

Yeah. And she figured the student could get him for. Because she was like, you can do that. And after he met her, this is the thing. Maira is one of those women. We all know. And it's, well, women and men, but really, I feel like this is a special trait

with usually these kind of women, is that you don't know how, but they are as bold to dazzle anyone they meet. That just you like charm the socks off of people and it's usually like Myra where they look like a foot, but you're like you are a toe ma'am How'd you do it? Like how you get in these like 45 engagement rings and like you have to think of like who they go after Well, and she was just very good at acting like the Doe-I-Hunter victim. Yeah, like I had nothing to do with this. It was Ian and I

am being railroaded for it. So after Lord Longford met her. Lord Farquhaw'd. He met, he wrote. I was astonished to find the peroxided Gorgon of the tabloids. It was in fact a nice looking, dark, well-behaved young person. She was desperately anxious to be allowed to meet Ian Brady with whom she was still infatuated with or to use kinder words deeply in love with. In my arguments with the home office, I seldom I've seldom believed them to be in the right, but they were absolutely right to refuse to permit a meeting between them. So he's like, no, she's amazing, but like, yeah, they shouldn't meet. It's like, okay, then how amazing is she is? Yeah, that worried amazing, but like, yeah, they shouldn't mean. It's like okay, then how amazing is she if you're not worried? Then of Ian, he said.

Well, he has a very different, well, kind of, yeah. He says, having visited him subsequently over a period of many years, I have no doubt that he was powerfully, almost hypnotically attractive. Ian Brady is a man of natural intellectuality. It is almost incredible that someone brought up in a very poor area, not knowing whose father was, packed off at one point to Borestall,

should, by the time you went to prison, have developed such an impressive knowledge of writers like Dostovsky. Dostovsky. Somebody corrected me last time, so it doesn't matter. Dostovsky, Tolstoy and Blake. I don't know why I can't say that name. That's hard. When I ski, toll-stoy, and Blake. I don't know why I can't say that name.

It's hard. When I look back at his earlier letters, I'm still astounded at the contrast between this young man of genuine culture and idealism and the author of such dreadful crimes. So he's literally, I mean, he's saying what everybody else has said. It's like, you meet him. And you're like, well, shit, I get it.

Right, everybody's like, mag, like just wants to be around him and it's like an ov him. And then you look deeper. He's got that weird attractiveness to him and it's like, but then you start talking to him and you're like, oh, what happened here? You're fucking evil. I am afraid.

And then I feel like Myra, he is painting as the exact opposite that like you see her and you're like gross. And then you start talking to her and according to him he's like, wow, what a nice woman. Right. So it's like the exact opposite. Yeah. But in reality they're both just ship bags. Myra just looks like one. So also this guy Lord Longford's own wife has said that throughout his career of like helping these kind of people and you know like going for the controversial figures and everything, she always supported his ventures.

But not this one. When she said, I did not support them. Because how could you, you can't support child murderers. And this just can't. It's just so beyond. She was like, this one I was not going to get behind. No, by the end of the end, ended up not helping anybody,

they all kind of just ended up faded. And Maya ended up calling him a stupid old mor helping anybody. They all kind of just like ended up faded though And my ended up calling him a stupid old moron later because he didn't help her and she didn't go what she wanted He got deep to wire so three years into prison My rest started having affairs with women. Okay, and decided to break things off with Brady out of nowhere Oh, was he pissed off or did he not care? I think he was just kind of like whatever. Yeah, we're in jail anyway. Yeah, like he's really not working anyway. In 1973, he wrote her, she wrote the final letter to him saying, don't bother writing

me again. And did he, he probably just stopped right? And he was like, cool, bye. He was a cool, don't care. So, she claimed that, no, she claims that he wrote her another letter and threatened to kill himself if she broke up with him. Do you? To which he says, flatters herself incredible.

She then changed her name to Myra Spencer, or she at least went by that and became a full-blown Christian because, of course, she did. And Ian said, she took her way and I took mine. She tried to please the mob, I spat in their faces and always will. So that's what I am pure evil.

I don't give a fuck. Who I am. I am who I am. And then he was like she's, which is, you know, unfortunately a stoop observation. It's not wrong. Yeah. She is, she lived the rest of her life trying to pretend she was not what she is. And he just went with what he was.

I know. I don't want to let you do this, but like, well, that's the thing. I'm not saying either one is better. No, because they both are evil as fuck. He's just admitting that he's evil as fuck. It's like, if you're going to be evil, though, at least be upfront about it.

Yeah, you might as well just be upfront about it. They're both ship eggs, but she's just more annoying. She's like, stop pretending not. She's super annoying. So Ian transferred to a lot of prisons and at one This is just shocking to me. What it's like how Edmund Kemper Ended up like doing books on tape. Yeah, and you're like what now? Yeah Ian when he went to one prison asked officials if he could transcribe books into Braille for blind children at

St. Vincent School near Liverpool and he ended up doing it. I'd be like, you can't do anything for children. You shouldn't be laughing at all. Nothing at all. And he said in a couple of things that he felt like he had to give back. So he did have a weird, like, some sort of a conscious. Yeah, but it was like weird or conscious.

But in my head, I'm like, I don't think it was to give back. I think it was to put something else into the world that he could be like, I did that. Yeah, like your kid is touching. Your kid is touching things that I transcribed. I feel like that's more. I think that's a very astute observation. Yeah, I feel like it's more his speed.

So, Maira really played up this innocent religious thing that she was starting to go off of now. She's like, Jesus, I.L.Y. Yeah, she's like, absolutely. And she's also starting to get treatment, like special treatment. Cause she is well behaved. Well, she's well behaved and she's just seducing all the female guards.

Interesting to me. Again, she had some people just have a, like, it's a little token in them and they just use them. Well, you wonder, I mean, cause you look at my run E and you're like, what? Okay, yeah, sure.

I think everybody can agree. We think twice. You look at our Instagram comments, everyone's like, what the fuck? Right. So I'm not alone in this. No. So you look at it and you're like,

what a mismatched couple. But then you see this and you're like, she had something about her. Well, it happens all the time. And it must have been something. So she starts getting prison, like really special treatment in prison. So she starts getting prison, like really special treatment in prison, and she's especially getting it by the Wardin Dorothy Wing.

She gets to go with the Wardin to walks in parks around. Why? For a couple of hours at a point, she played with their dog at a point. She went to a museum exhibit. Like, why does she get to live life? And I guess somebody had seen her at the museum exhibit and thought she escaped prison and like called the authorities and like freaked out. And it's like, oh no, we just let her go see Van Gogh that day. Well, she made like what? Well, and that's so the tabloids in the media started going mad. And victims' families were rightly pissed.

Yeah. And it also became a fear that they may be taking her out on these little outings and small bits and pieces to ready her for early release. Right. Exactly. They denied that, but it's still like, that's why else would you be doing that? She should never be allowed to see the light again. What the fuck are you doing letting her do? The whole point of putting her in prison. Yeah, it's unbelievable. So in 1972, we're back to David Smith, because I'm just going chronological with other things that happen. 1972, David Smith, are you ready? Euthanized his father. What?

His father was terminally ill with cancer. He didn't want to live that way. And so David gave him a milk concoction containing 20 crushed sodium amatol tablets. He died. And David Smith got two days in prison for the mercy killing. Just a weird tidbit. That's just random as fuck. I had to mention it because it's just like what now?

Yeah. Everything is just weird in this case. It's all weird. It's like a series of unfortunate events. It truly is. This is perfectly that. Myro was also starting to do the nasty with a female guard who decided to help her

with an escape attempt. Oh, good. Thank you for that. Her name was Pat Karnes, and she was a former nun. Pat Karnes. What? Like, emphasis on the former. Pat Karns, what? Like, emphasis on the former, I suppose. Yeah, what happened there?

Between 1971 and 1973, they were having a secret affair and they ended up doing all their business in the prison chapel. Okay, that's wrong. Is this so much wrong? Is this not what you learned like day one of nun school? I would assume. Like, don't do it. I wasn't there, but I don't know.

Maybe I missed that first day. Maira knitted her stuffed animals to show her love for her. I gotta go. So they were found to be working together on this little skate plan to bust Maira out of jail. They were gonna be using like stolen and copied keys and key impressions and shit.

Like that's how they were caught. Like listen Maira, if you want to get out, get a spoon like everybody else. That's right, start digging bitch. Work for it. I guess she did work for it though. So different ones. Karen's, I think it's Karn's or Karn's,

who really cares? I don't do you, I don't give a shit. You probably do, but you work. But who gives a shit, she's dumb. Yeah. She received five years in prison for it. Good. To which I say, was it worth it, Pat?

Was it worth it? Put your thing down, flip it, get out of here. Yeah, I'd get the fuck outta here. Get out of here, Pat Karnes, I don't care if you were worth it. So even after that, in Myra getting a year tacked on to her, like, Zillion life sentences. Life plus a day.

Yeah. She got a new cell with TV, books. She was able to hang photos on the wall. She wrote to some people during this time that she really wanted to be a mother. No! No! What?

No! You want to be a mother? Like, they literally should have removed every reproductive organ along with giving her multiple life sentences. Once she outwardly says, I want to be a mother, I'd be like, well, well, time to go to the gyno. You got a hysterectomy by this. I have time to do this.

That's unbelievable. Seriously. So Ian at this point too, is starting to notice that he might be losing his mind a little bit. I mean, he said he woke up one day. This is when it really occurred to him. How much mind was there in the first place? That was like sound.

I think this being caged like this just kind of triggered it into full-blown spiraling off. He said he woke up one day in a cell and he was convinced that there was a gun in his cell. And he said he searched, he went nuts. He was like trying to find it. And then he said hours later, he's sweating and freaking out and then he suddenly realized there's no way

he could have a gun in his cell in prison. No, it doesn't really work like that. And he had no idea why he was so convinced that one was. So one Christmas, this is interesting. My replayed Mary in the prison's nativity play. How fitting. An entire wing of the prison prison's nativity play. How fitting. In entire wing of the prison walked out of the play. Yeah, I saw it.

Bye-bye. These people with nothing else to do besides watch this dumb play. Didn't even want to do it. Show us to leave this play because you're like fuck that. So one thing that Ian started doing during his time was he started mentoring younger inmates. To do what? What he was doing was if they were in there for burglary, he would do this thing where he would give them a cellophane paper with his fingerprints on it.

And he said, those were to be left behind at the scene of their first job they did after they were released I loved the prospect of detective scratching their heads about how Ian Brady could have been there when he had been locked up for years This is really fucked up, but why do I lock that? Like I hate him so much, but like That's the worst part about this case. Is he is literally one of the most horrific, repraved, like, irredeemable monsters on planet Earth. 100%. But some of the shit he does is hilarious.

You can't even hate on that. Like, that's funny. Like, he just is fucking with people. But that's so fucked up and I'm sure people are really gonna get upset that I think that's funny It's funny. Argue it. No, it's it's kind of funny and you got to find some humor in this because holy shit otherwise It's just it's bleeds because the rest of it is all bleeds. Yeah, but

Putting a fingerprints on cellophane and having young burglars just leave it at their first job when they get out and then everybody's like Detectives why why was Ian Brady here? It just like freaks everybody out. Yeah. So in 1976, the sun did a 10 year anniversary edition about Myra and Ian's crimes. I was deadass about to just ask you who's sun. Wow. Like who's sun?

The sun. The sun. The prodigal son. But some of the inmates read this. We're able to see it. They were horrified, especially Myrice. One inmate, 19-year-old Josie O'Dwyer, broke Myrice nose.

Good. Completely bruised her face. Good. Lucind her teeth. Incredible. Split her lips. And she ended up having cartilage in her knee torn. That's how she had her face. Good. Loosened her teeth. Incredible. Split her lips. And she ended up having cartilage in her knee torn. That's how it hurt her robot.

She had to be fed through a straw for six weeks. Jocy. Jocy. Jocy. I love it. Our hero. An American hero. In that same prison, my wrist started claiming that guards were pissing in her food.

I probably were. I hope they weren't drinking water for like a day or two. Oh, no, just where they did that. Straight red bull. Yeah. And honestly, I hope they were doing the same thing to eat and over at his place. Yeah, I hope that for both of them. Myra. So this is when she begins her parole requests because she's, she's getting, because no matter what's going on with this kind of shit,

she is having relationships with ton of her inmates, you know. Can you imagine having the audacity to be myrahandly period? And then can you imagine having the audacity to be myrahandly requesting parole? No, I can't. You should know that that's just laughable. I have two questions for my Rehenly. One, how dare you? Two, who do you think you are? There it is. That's what I say. So in her first request, she said, the Moore's quote,

represented nothing more and nothing less than a beautiful and peaceful solitude that I cherish. Of the bodies and graves, I know nothing. She also said her only crime was just loving Ian. No. And she said the quote, quote, and I mean it, quote, society owes me a living. Society owes you nothing, except piss and,

honestly, glass in your food every single day. And this is when she also came very public with her belief that it was solely Ian who committed the Moore's murders. Totally. Yeah, so weird though, because we have you on audio tape. Yeah, it's a real bummer. It's a real bummer. The audio tape is a fickle mistress.

And it got you straight up more on it. It got you. In 1980, her sister Maureen died of a sudden brain hemorrhage. I have no comment, to be honest with you. That's just kind of like, and then that happens. I don't have time for bad moms. I don't have time for the henlies, really. No.

1982 Brady, Ian Brady released a statement, and he said that he was never gonna seek parole. Mm-hmm. He was like, don't ask me, I'm not gonna do it. And he said, the nature of the Moore's murders justified permanent life imprisonment for both he and Myra. Yes. He said, quote, they were the acts of a madman.

I don't deserve any sympathy and I would never seek it. I want to spend the rest of my life inside. I want to die in jail. Cool. So we can arrange that for you. Oh, wait, we did. You know what, weirdly enough, we agree. Okay. In 1985, Myra Henley's You know what, weirdly enough, we agree.

Okay. In 1985, Myra Henley's own mother said that she should die in prison. Yes, correct. All right. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily,

which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, breaking down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds.

I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast, Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Even though you're still writing her letters, which like, I can't get out of it because you are her mom, but yeah, but her mother also in this quote I'm like what now? She said quote, Myra should die in prison. It's better she dies there than

come out of prison and get killed out here. Oh no it's not. Myra's been in prison all these years now. So what difference does it make if she stays there forever? If Myra came out she couldn't come here. I don't know where she would go. People wouldn't let her alone. She might as well die in prison. No, actually, if you're looking at it, like that, let's let her out and let mobs and mobs of people just rip her limb from limb. Also, okay, Mama, Hindley.

Like, that's your reason? Like, damn! What a mom! She's like, well, she couldn't come here. I'm not getting killed because of her. It's like, damn, that's your daughter! Honestly. Fuck.

Well, and it's also like, that's why she shouldn't be let out. How about the fact that she gruesomely murdered children? Well, in a funny response, because again, this is why I keep reading like Ian's response. No, I like that. I like that. Because it's funny to hear them both like, just shitting on each other.

Ian said he wished the victim's families would stop campaigning to keep her in prison. Because he said then they would let her out and they could all kill her. Right. Bye. Which is getting you like shit, I agree. I do. I know. I don't like that. I can't agree with him. January 21st, 1985. This is when Ian suddenly comes out with this weird vague suggestion that he was involved in Keith Bennett and Pauline Reed's murder. Oh, okay. Cause before this, nobody even knew.

You weren't, they hadn't even found Pauline's body yet, right? Nope. Myra totally denied it and said that he fabricated any information about them, about both of them being involved in their deaths. She was like, nope, that's crazy. Oh wow. Because she's probably thinking,

they're not gonna find them, that's fine. Like no one's gonna know. Yeah. Well, this is when Winnie Keith's mom who like my heart for her or Winnie for her having to like go to the grave never finding him is just that's so fucked up Keith's mom wrote Myra letter after hearing about this like that Ian mentioned something that could be taken as a confession basically and she begged her to tell the truth and she was literally like woman to woman, please tell the truth.

And she said, release me from this hell, this like purgatory that my hair doesn't care. She's a horrible individual. Well, what she did was she didn't answer Winnie directly. She went, she basically released a statement and she pinned it on Ian and painted herself as a saint. Who you know what, Winnie? I want to help you figure it out

because the horror that Ian caused, she said, quote, I received a letter the first ever from the mother of one of the missing children, and this has caused me enormous distress. Has it? I have agreed to help the police in any way possible and have today identified from photographs and maps, places that I know were of particular interest to Ian Brady, some of which I visited with him. In spite of a 22-year passage of time, I have searched my heart and my memory

and given whatever help I can to the police. I'm glad at long last who have been given this opportunity and will continue to do all I can. Fuck you, Myra! I want a slammer face into the sidewalk. Yeah, I think we all want to. Like over and over. Yeah, I would love that. So yeah, so Ian's response? He probably was just like, I hate you, you're stupid. It was through his lawyer and again, it's a very Ian response. He said quote, this is through the lawyer. So it says, he is very

concerned about things that have been said by Myra Hindley, implicating him. That has stung him. He wants Myra Hindley and her advisors to know that letters she wrote to him over a period of years when they were first in prison and before their relationship broke up are still in existence. That's incredible. He was like, I just want to remind you that I have all these letters where you state you did all of this. You actual moron. He's like, yep, we still have all these letters where you state you did all of this, you actual moron. He's like, yep, we still have all these letters and I can release these at any time. Right. Like you got to be dumb.

So November 1986 was when the moors began being searched regularly and thoroughly. Right. They weren't finding anything at first, but before finally admitting she was involved, Myra actually took a trip to the Moors with investigators to try to help find graves. That's what she said. Quote unquote. She really wanted to be there.

Yeah, she literally just wanted to be in the Moors again. Like why were they stupid enough to even bring her? Yeah, and she went once before she finally confessed to being involved in those in keys and polyens murders. And then she went again after and both times she didn't help at all. Right, she just went, exactly, she just won't be there. And also went a couple of times and he didn't help at all. He definitely just wanted to chill in the morse.

In fact, so February 19th, 1987, that's when my red meted. She was part of the murders of Pauline and Keith. No way, my red. It's finally because she was like shit, I'm not gonna get out of this. Right, exactly. So July 1st, I think it was 1987, that's when Pauline Reed's body was found on the more. Oh my god, like over 20 years later.

Yeah. And this is, so after Ian was, Ian was brought over after Pauline's body was found to try to find Keith's. He was brought back out to the mores, he pretended to be disoriented and didn't show them where Keith's. So he literally said, I will bring you to Keith's grave. Yeah.

They brought him out there and he acts it real weird. And then he was like, I'm very disoriented. I want to leave. And he wouldn't show them. That was just fun. Yeah. He loves to fuck with people. He did that till the very last breath he took.

And it's the only one they've never found. He knows 100%. He could take them to the exact spot that the boy is. And it makes me crazy. He said, quote, it was weird seeing the place again, all that space and vastness. And then ready, Keith Bennett is buried three miles into the more from the A635. I put a boulder on his grave as a marker after we buried him.

Myra knows this. She was a few feet away. I didn't indulge myself on the day thinking about the luxury of walking on the morse. I had loved so much when I was free. I knew I would be back in my matchbox with an hours. So I think that's bullshit. What he just said, I think three miles in here. There's a lot. I think that's a lie, because I think he's fucking with everybody. I do believe he put a boulder on the grave, because I think- But there's probably boulders everywhere.

That's the thing, it doesn't help. Right. It's not helping anybody. And it's just like fun for him to be like, why don't you go move all the boulders? Exactly, and he's also not- he's sitting there being like, no, I didn't indulge myself while I was out there. I was disoriented. Sure. It's like, fuck you, you were indulging. Right, let's sitting there being like, no, I didn't indulge myself while I was out there. I was disoriented. Sure.

It's like, fuck you, you were indulging. Right. Let's be a little more upfront, Ian. Pauline's mother Joan. She was in a psychiatric facility when the body was found, but awful. Because she just broke, of course. Of course, it's her baby. She had those white siletto, she was with the ankle strap.

That Pauline was wearing the one she bought that day. She had those white siletto shoes with the ankle strap that Pauline was wearing the one she bought that day. Yeah. She had those white stiletto shoes with the ankle strap brought to her. And she said, quote, she's not suffering now. Nobody can hurt her now. I feel her that close now, you see. That seems to buck me up a lot. I feel her so close to me. But I miss her very much.

I still do. She's my little girl. Mira, that just like rung throughout my entire body. That hurts. She's my little girl. That just like rung throughout my entire body. That hurts. Now, Leslie and Downey's mother Ann wrote to Myra around this time and she began it many years ago, my daughter begged you for her life.

That was the first thing she wrote, which I was like bad ass. Yeah, like just stoop her nut letter. And in that, she was basically begging Myra to release these other two mothers from their grief She was like tell them where their children are. Yeah, why would you tell them the truth 1987 the same year 16 Wartlebrook Avenue where they killed Lesley and Downey where they tear it down they tore it down They also killed Edward Evans there. It was torn down after no one would live in it again. Because why the fuck would you want to live there? I guess people were like taking, it was the same kind

of thing. People taking souvenirs and shit. Yeah, that one. Not a souvenir to take. No, I know. I don't see any appeal. We don't take souvenirs from Child Murderers. No, we don't do that. Ann West said, and this kills me. Ann West said her daughter, Leslie's grave, has been desecrated. Somebody commented that on our Instagram and I was shocked. My Rehendley supporters. Like you're desecrating the grave of a 10 year old girl who was brutally tortured, raped, killed, left in a bed for an entire night, just make it in a loan and then dumped. Yeah. And now her final resting place

where she's finally able to rest, you're gonna go fuck with her grave. Punch a Myra Hindleap supporter. In the face. Yeah, do it. Or else. If you see one, punch one. That's our motto.

I just got so hyped. Yeah. So Ann, though, Ann was like such a fucking strong lady. You can tell, like, even just the way she wrote that. Well, she later wrote, Hindley doesn't know it, but she's keeping me alive. I have no intention of dying until I'm sure she's locked up forever.

I want her to die before me, and then I will die in peace. The tape of Leslie should be played every night to Hindley. Let her live it over and over again. Yeah. And then she said, I mean, she said her whole life was ruined by this. And she said, she ended up being so obsessed with keeping her other children safe that it made her like do crazy things. Yeah. Her son was like 21 years old and was like in college and she like showed up at his college And was like why haven't you answered your phone like she was at a panic Yeah, and like those things like that that she couldn't handle not even when they were adults that changes

Your entire life. I can't imagine it She she did pass away at the age of 69 Myra died before her. No, no. It was February 9th, 1999. She died of liver cancer. She was requested to be buried alongside Leslie. Her body and Leslie's body was exhumed because of the vandalism to her grave and they were buried together somewhere on the slopes. Good. And she wrote before she died, she said, I believe I'm going to be with my little girl. Ooh, that one started.

Yeah, wow. That after all this pain and torment, we will finally be together again. Jesus Christ. Now, give me a little tickle and a throat. So this is what Ian had to say later about Myra's confession journey that she took because she started talking to this, you know, detective

topping and she wanted like books about this. She started confessing to things but always like we, I think we talked about this in part three. She would always distance herself from the actual crime. Right. Like I was there at the mors, but she was in the car and she just waited. She didn't see anything. She didn't hear anything. I was the lookout. Ian just suddenly showed up at the car with a shovel, covered in dirty blood. And I was like, whoa, what happened? Ian, not again.

And then she was just happening. Just kept happening. And she was like, I don't know what to do about her. Idiot. So what he said about that was he called it the self-serving stations of the cross. Yep. He said they took the following expedient shapes.

One, I vaguely knew something. So I'll take the police to places which interested Ian. Two, I confess I knew everything, but I saw nothing, heard nothing, and did nothing. Three, I confess I was evil, wicked, and corrupt, but it was Ian, Uncle Cobley, and all those who were really to blame. I can't.

I will die in captivity. Myra is immeashed in the inevitable. Catch 22 net, the warp of which progressively tightens each time she makes a public statement. And he said, until she tells the truth she will never be released. But if she tells the truth, she will never be released anyway. It doesn't matter.

So he's like, she's caught in this never-ending thing of if she's going to tell the truth. Right, she's released. And she's never-ending thing of, if she's never gonna tell the truth, and she's released, and she's never gonna be released, even if she tells the truth. So it doesn't matter. So she's just lying, and then maybe telling a little of the truth, and then lying, and then like taking it back, like we're canting now.

And he's right when he says, like, you know, it begins with I had nothing to do with it, then it goes, wait, I was there, and it was actually Ian. But it's always. Everyone else's fault. I'm wicked and evil, but it's everyone else's fault for making me that way. Nothing to do with it, then it goes, wait, I was there and it was actually Ian, but it's everyone else's fault. I'm wicked and evil, but it's everyone else's fault for making me that way. Nothing to do with my own behavior. It's like really?

And then in 1994, my republished in a letter, quote, after 30 years in prison, I think I have paid my debt to society and toned for my crimes. You haven't. I ask people to judge me as I am now and not as I was then. No.

Not as you were then when you were murdering children. When you were filming yourself, like gagging a naked 10-year-old when she cried for her mother. No, we shouldn't think about that. We shouldn't think about that. Oh, okay. You're right. People change.

You're totally different than that. Go fuck yourself. Okay, cool. That's cool. That's totally cool, Mar. So after pretending she was just the innocent victim and then admitting false and then going back to the innocent victim, being abused by Ian, he wrote about her bid for parole because it just went back and forth and back and forth.

I'm the innocent victim. No, I'm evil, but it's not my fault. No, it was Ian and I was abused for a prayer. That must be exhausting. How do you keep up? So he wrote, so finally he said about her, so her going for parole, he was like, Myra Hindley and I once loved each other.

We were unified force, not to conflicting entities because he's like, she's trying to paint it. Like I was holding her hostage, that's not true. Like this was a long and clear. We locked in Clive's itch. We were united, we were one. And then he said the relationship was not based on the delusional concept of folly adieu, but on the conscious, subconscious, emotional, and psychological affinity.

She regarded periodic homicides as rituals of reciprocal innervation, marriage ceremonies, theoretically binding us ever closer. So that was just him being like deer parole board. She loved it. She thought it brought us to the other. I was not the only one doing this. Well, and you can tell just like how everything went down. That's exactly what it was. Of course. Around this time an artist named Marcus Harvey did a piece called it was for an exhibition

in London called Sensations. It was in 1997 and he painted a photo of Myra Hindley and it was I mean it was Vandalized. It had to be do that. It had to be put under like special protection and shit and like, to me, that is such a cheap ass, like, dear Mark is Harvey, that's a cheap ass way to get attention on your art, motherfucker. Yeah, like, that's fucking you. That's basically like child exploitation.

And it's just what a cheap way. Like, that doesn't show any talent. Like, do you really feel good about that? No. You do really, it's like when people, it's like the people who lie about accomplishments and then take the praise. Does that praise really feel good? No, don't you just feel yucky afterwards? Because you got it in a not, in the not authentic way. Right. So it doesn't matter how good that painting was, you knew it was going to get attention because of who it was from. Well, why would they protect my Rhyndali's face? Like,

fuck off. Let it be ruined. Let it be defaced. And she said, even though an assassination attempt on her, if she was released would be scary, because she was like, and probably imminent. Yeah. She said, you know what? Oh, face it. It's worth it.

How noble. How noble, Myra. Because everybody was like, you know, you're gonna die if you're going to go out there. Right. I'm surprised she lost it as long in jail as she did without being killed. It's because she was a manipulator.

Right, in fact, I think in one of the books I read, there's a quote by Ian that says she's a chameleon. She's a true chameleon. She reminds me so much of somebody. She really does. I'm crazy. I think that's why we have such a, even more rage. Yeah, that's why I'm yelling every five minutes.

So one of her parole, her parole tries was rejected in 1998. And again, in 2000, the House of Lords, which like the UK, good job with the names of your officials. Honestly, that House of Lords. I want to vote for the people there. I don't know. It's like, we're going to vote into the House of Lords next week. Like, what?

It's so cool. Yeah. It's cool. It's just sound school. Yeah. And imagine being like, oh, I'm just in the House of Lords. Yeah, I'm just in the House of Lords. That's a lot different than just a TikTok house.

It's true. That's very different. Like a different. So he, the House of Lords, they said, quote, the pitiless and depraved ordeal of the victims and the torment of their families place these crimes in terms of comparative wickedness and in exceptional category. Yes.

So they were like, AKA, you won't die in jail. Sorry. RID. And like I said, myrahendly still has, but did have a ton of weird fucked up supporters that would just spread the gospel of Myrahendly wherever they went. Like what happened in your life

that you're supporting Myrahendly? Can you let me know? I'm not really sure. What went wrong? Don't let me know, because I'll punch you in the face. But they thought she was rehabilitated. They thought you must blame that she was getting railroaded in the press.

Wrong. One of them even came out in the press and said that they met her briefly when they went to visit her and they said that she was an angel. You should get a fucking hobby and then go away forever. Well, Ann West had something to say about that. She said, I had to hear the tapes of my daughter

and never heard Ian Brady. It was my Rahindli on that tape with my daughter, had something to say about that. murder. I said this to Lord Longford once and I'll say it again. She will be one dead woman. I want justice. Good. Hell is she? Say fuck yeah. Huzzah in. Huzzah. Oh, you said Huzzah. I say Huzzah in the next line of my notes. Do you really? What a crazy connection. We are kindred spirits. It's almost like we're related. It's almost like that. Well, what I said, Hazzatou is the fact that throughout her prison sentence, Myra suffered from a heart attack, a stroke, and Jaina, a cerebral aneurysm, high blood pressure, osteoporosis, high cholesterol, depression, headaches, back pain, chest infections, arthritis, asthma, and irritable bowels to which I say,

Huzzah! You know what I say? Not enough. Huzzah! Not enough. Love it. So she wasn't gonna let these victims' families rest, though. Not my room's not into that, she didn't give a shit.

Because she's not suffering enough. She made several fake maps to keep spot body and misled everyone before her death. Like that in and of itself, you're fucking monster. Yeah. And the same year that she was, you know, called an angel and that she started leading them to these fake places. She went on a BBC program and she said, when they asked her about the Leslie case, she was like, I can't talk about that. Oh, you can't talk about how you're a vicious fucking rapist murderer asshole. Well, right after that program aired, her parole, her latest appeal was denied. Yeah. So, haha. Sorry, your Uber is not here. Your Uber is not waiting.

Then she decided to lodge an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. That was her last bid, like effort, to get the her. You have no rights because you're not human. She died waiting for the answer. Aw. So Myra, the answer is, nub it. Go just to create her grave. What the fuck?

Well, you can't find it, unfortunately, because she was created. Go look. She was cremated. Yeah, I don't have a decision for that. She was transferred. She hadn't died yet. I was just saying that before she got the answer to that appeal, she died.

But she was transferred to high point and suffoc. And there she broke her femur at the gym like an asshole and had to walk with a cane after that. Cool. Just thought that was fun. I like that. Yeah, I thought that was more fun than you did. No, I was trying, people are gonna think I'm stupid. I was trying to remember if your femur was in your leg or your arm. That's why I didn't answer your leg.

Yeah, it's your leg. It's like a really hard bone to break. So in November 2002, at the age of 60 years old, someone in the fabric of the universe blessed us all by gifting myra heart attack at high foot point prison in Suffolk. She was taken to West Suffolk Hospital, probably because she was rotting from the inside out. She developed bronchial pneumonia and died two weeks later after suffering for two weeks.

R-I-D. It's a bummer that she didn't get to suffer longer. I know that is true. I would have loved a good vegetative state for her with no signs of pulling the plug into the 90s. Or maybe something like a mebic dysentery and she could just shit herself to death, but you know, we can't all get what we want. That's like the king that we talked about on crime count time. Yeah. His friends had to hold him up while he was shitting to death. Yeah. Literally. I wish my- Shitting to death. Yeah. Goes into I wish my- Shitting to death. Yeah.

Goes into crime canton if you're wanting her that one. But in the one of the greatest poetic justice moments that I read, her final words were cries for her mother. Oh, does that sound familiar to you? Boo, hoo, my ra. That's what my ra. She's not coming. No, you're not coming.

She's not coming. She can't save you. Nobody can. So yeah, so she's dead. Winnie Keith Bennett's mother said, quote, I was hoping that she would say something before she died, but it looks as if she hasn't. So I have to go on and live with it again.

Yet again. Oh, that's absolutely horrible. That's what she told Sky News. And she said, she's the evilest one of the two of them. Brady's never wanted to come out of prison, but she's tried from day one to get out. She'll not do it again. She will go straight to hell where she deserves to go.

Don't ask me if I've got any sympathy for her because I haven't. And then Alan West, Leslie's stepfather, said, "...I'm glad Hindley has gone. Hell will be too good for her. She was evil. It tormented Anne that a woman could take part in the hellish torture of our little girl." The horror of what happened to Leslie Anne also killed my wife.

Hindley sentenced her to a long lingering painful death. I just wish God had evened up the scales of justice before she died. Terry Killbride, John Killbride's brother, said, I am just really sorry that my mother is not here to witness this. She died three months ago. Oh. I would have loved to see the relief on her face. Wow, that just hit me. Now, 20 local undertakers refused to handle her body

or the ceremony. I would not want to touch that. 20. Yeah. They went to 20 and they were like, no. I'm surprised they even found somebody. And a journalist named Nikki Girard, she wrote in the observer, it was like,

it was like myri's body was quote, like radioactive waste with an afterlife. It was. That's exactly what it was. The Cambridge crematorium cremated her remains. There was insane police presence because there was a huge protest in mob outside. I believe that.

Hassing cars were shouting shit and honking. It was incredible. Her ashes were scattered at an undisclosed location. But the man-to-morse. The Manchester evening news said they were scattered like 10 miles from where she killed and buried children on Saddleworth's wall. But that's unconfirmed, that's what they said.

I'm sure it was cool of us. In 1999, Ian went on another hunger strike. Can get a license. And this is when he started trying to fight for his right to die peacefully, which, oh my God. What you have is the right to remain silent, and that's it. Why?

He wants to die peacefully. Like, you're the worst fucking shipbag on Earth. You tortured little kids to death, and you want the right to die peacefully. You have no fucking right to that. Well, he was, he got lung cancer and was suffering, and that gives me great solace. Same. From October 29th, 1999, he got lung cancer and was suffering and that gives me great solace.

Same. From October 29th, 1999, he was force fed through that nasogastric tube that I spoke about. Incredible. And he said it was, quote, permanent because the first one was like the one with the block and the chuv in your stomach. That was a temporary solution where they just like shoved stuff down your throat. Yeah. This was a permanent thing that they were constantly feeding him through so he could not die. Incredible. He said, quote, permanent tube up nose and down throat and changed to a slow motion

machine that takes up to 11 hours, 40 minutes to force feed. Prisons do it in 15 minute increments. Being kept under observation by two waters 24 hours a day, including sitting outside my open cell door at night to ensure I get next to no sleep and they get plenty of overtime. To which I say, you're the boss. To which I say, Huzzah! Huzzah! And in a fun little moment of irony on boxing day in 1999, which if you remember, that was when Leslie and Downey was abducted and assaulted, tortured, filmed, raped, and murdered. Brady collapsed and was taken to the hospital. On boxing day. Unfortunately, he lived, but it's still fun that he collapsed.

Because I kind of hope that was Leslie and Downey coming back and just like strangling him and asleep or something. And she was with Ann. Yeah. And in her, we're just like, fuck you dude. Let's get it. So there was a judicial review of his right to die because they have to do this, you know. It's just like paperwork. It was in Liverpool Crown Court on February 28th, 2000.

And it said that, so basically in English law, it says that an adult who is competent and mentally stable, understanding the consequences, they know about all the factors that are involved with everything, may refuse treatment and that includes force feeding. But that go-dotal hells-a-lords said it was reasonable to force feed him. I have to say a problem. Thus making that the most badass, mic dropping decision ever, they were just like, yeah, yeah, totally like anybody can totally refuse that. I think his is reasonable.

Hi. Sorry. Well, he really wants to die. No, no, no, thank you. September 30th, 2000, he appealed again to continue killing himself slowly. June 2001 he was denied again. Good. It wasn't until May 15th 2017 that he finally died. If you remember that last appeal was in 2000 and 2001 he didn't die till 2017. Wow. So that's almost 20 years. He was 79 years old. That motherfucker lived to almost 80 years old and he wanted to die so bad. I love that. That gives me a favorite. It gives me something to his dying day though. He refused to tell anyone where key spot he was buried. He also said everything he said he did admit that every bit of hate and vitriol from victims families or loved ones is Completely justified, but he also said it doesn't change who I am. Like, okay, thanks.

So he like tries to give you a bit of like, yeah, totally, and then he's like, but I'm fucking evil in that area. Well, it's also like, don't tell me it's justified. I know. I don't need your telling me, I don't need your like, telling me it's fine. I don't need your stamp of approval on mine.

Right. Yeah. Keith's family said he has always refused to help end our torment. Yeah. And they did. Ann West did before she died, right? Wrote a book in 1989 called For the Love of Leslie.

Oh. It's a harrowing account of what she went through. Mm-hmm. Ann What Leslie's family went through after the abduction of murder. She said that she talked to, you know, the murderers. She would write, because she did. She wrote letters to Maya and Ian. She talked to David Smith, the altercation she got in with David Smith when they went to

her husband. And I believe her brother went to David Smith and Maureen's house, begging them to just tell the truth about Maya so that they would never get out. They were agreeing. But of course, when Maureen walked into the room, she looks just like Myra. Yeah. Of course. And then I just beat the shit off of her and it turned into this giant melee.

It's a super heavy read. But I was super glad she was able to write it because hopefully it was like cathartic for her in some way. Because to think about what she had to endure, she was right, she never got peace, not even for a second. No. Many of the investigators on this case literally couldn't let this go. They could not get off this case no matter what,

especially knowing Keith Bennett is still on those more. I really hope that he gets found so badly. It's so frustrating. They continued visiting the Moors and they said that they feel more children could be out there. Wow. And Winnie Keith's mother would go by herself and dig on the Moors for him.

There's a photo of her digging in the Moors' saddest thing. I would do the exact same thing. Yeah, I would too. How could you not? Ian did write a book called Gates of Janice. Is that the one that you posted the Amazon review? Yes. Whoa.

And it's an analysis on serial killing from his point of view. That must be. It's unfortunately very interesting. Yeah. But it's also very much Ian like self-inflated ego. Like very... He got a boner the whole time he wrote it.

So reading it feels like an icky exercise and stroking his ego. Don't read it. Don't do it. It's not worth it. I mean, he don't do it. You don't need to know. You don't need to know what's going on. We told you.

Yeah, that's it. The last thing I just want to mention because a lot of people were like, do you know there is a Smith song called Suffer Little Children. And it was written about the Moore's murders. I just want to read a couple of the lyrics because it's like very heavy. I don't even think I can listen to the song. It's over the more, take me to the more, dig a shallow grave, and I'll lay me down.

Leslie End with your pretty white beads. Oh, John, you'll never be a man, and you'll never see your home again. Oh, man, Shester, so much to answer for. Edward, see those alluring lights tonight will be your very last night. A woman said, I know my son is dead. I'll never rest my hands on his sacred head, which I can't remember if it was John Kilbride's mom or Keith Bennett's mother. She that's a real quote.

Hindley wakes and Hindley says Hindley wakes and Hindley Wakes and Hindley says, Hindley Wakes and Hindley Wakes and says, oh, wherever he has gone, I have gone. And that's a direct quote from her too, because they first asked her, you know, were you present for the murders? And they said, would he go out on his own? Yeah. So are there things that you might not know about? And she said the quote, wherever he has gone, I have gone.

And then later she tried to flip it around. Yeah, like you can't. But this is no easy ride for a child's cries. Oh, find me, find me, nothing more. We are on a cell and misty more. We may be dead and we may be gone. But we will be, we will be, we will be right by your side until the day you die. This is no easy ride.

We will haunt you when you laugh. Yes, you could say we're a team. You might sleep, but you will never dream. Oh, man, Chester, so much to answer for. You will never dream. Over the mores, I'm on the more. Oh, the child is on the more. That just made every single hair on my body stand

directly up. That's why I felt like it was like, like that genuinely needed a hair on the back of your neck, Sam. It gave me the chills. Chilly Willie, that's the heavy-ass song. Just like things with children. And this case, I think part of the mystique with this case and the fascination with this,

for obvious reasons, but the mors, it makes the level of. The children on the mors and murder but the mors. Yeah, it makes sense. It adds a level of the children on the mors and murder on the mors. You know, it just like the mors murderers. And I also read something that said, Ian said he woke up every morning and the first thought he had in his head was, I'm the mors murderer.

And he said it did start to like sink in, I guess, because he said he was in like a one room by himself all the time. And he started thinking about the fact that like that's who he is. That's weird. I don, because he said he was in like a one room by himself all the time. He started thinking about the fact that like that's who he is. That's weird. I don't think he felt remorse for it. I was going to say. I think it probably sets in that that's like who you are forever now.

Yeah. And that's that's your legacy. I feel like he loved it. I've been in love with that. Yeah, I was going to say I've been he loved it, but it like it's like when you think of like like what is the earth? I feel like that's what he was thinking. And I think it just took him being like a solitary situation to actually realize it,

but I'm sure he loved it. So glad that he came to that realization. But you know what? They're both dead. We're done now with that. And Dmyra, like, she was shitting herself. She had aching joints. She was having heart attacks and strokes and broken femurs and Ian was being forced fed. High blood pressure, high cholesterol.

Not a lot of sleep. And Ian just wanted to die so badly and they just wouldn't let him. I'm happy. He was being forced fed through a tube, like an infant. Yeah. And that's great. All of it.

It plus. And as a parting thing, Myra called out for her mother when she died. All of it. It plus. And as a parting thing, Maira called out for her mother when she died. Just take that. Nope, you're not gonna get that. The beautiful irony of that. So that's what you did to Leslie, you deserve that. I just rolled my eyes so hard that it hurt.

I'm rolling my eyes so hard that they've just shot out the back of my head and threw the wall. I saw it myself. But that is the conclusion of my red head. Oh, he and Brady, the Moore's murders, get the fuck out of my head forever. I feel like maybe tonight I'll be able to actually go to sleep and enjoy a nice slumber,

knowing that we don't ever have to talk about that again if we don't want to. Yeah. I'm glad it's over. I'm glad we did this. I'm glad you guys took the right. Yeah, we needed to do it. I'm glad we had this.

That was definitely worth for me than the toy box. I think so too. It was worse for me for sure. Yeah, I hate kid stuff. I don't like it. And I hope everybody's taken time to make sure even when you're lit. Because a lot of people are saying, I had to take time away from this. Yeah. Me too. I would not feel. And I want to say, hopefully you're all taking time to

like, you know, go hug your kids. You care of your mental well-being. Because I know it can be hard to listen to this stuff. So I hope you're, you know, everybody go, you know, watch something stupid like Project Runway on Amazon Prime. Oh my God, no, watch good girls on Netflix because a best show I've ever seen in my entire life. There you go. See, so watch something fun. Do it. Go do it.

And while you're at it, follow us on Instagram. At Morbid Podcast. Head us up on Twitter. At A Morbid Podcast. Go ahead and send us a G-mail. Yes. Send in those listener tails. Morbid Podcasts at gmailid podcast. Go ahead and send us a G-mail. Yes, send in those listener tails. morbidpodcast.gmail.com.

And now you can go get our merch at shop.morbidpodcast.com. Yippee! We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But that's where the horrible person and child murder and you have to spend the rest of your dying days in jail at like saying that you didn't do it. And then like also if you're in saying that you did do it

like you really don't care but you get to go back to the more like hopefully you don't keep it that weird. Hopefully you don't keep it so weird to the point where you have to be forced for the rest of your life and like spend the your dying days on the toilet and breaking your femur which is in your leg and all of that stuff so don't do that by yeah don't do that fuck my Rehimzulee mean Brady bye bye the way me and Brady. Bye! Bye!

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