Morbid - Episode 185: The Unbelievable Life & Crimes of Carl Panzram Part 2

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

Part two of the conundrum that is Carl Panzram. Part two consists of Carl escaping to Africa, living more like a pirate, murdering almost everyone in his path and eventually confessing to murder. Dive in for the gory details and some seriously interesting psychology!! Books/websites used for episode Carls handwritten letters Kill Em All By Ryan Green Butchering Humanity Carls Autobiography  As always thanks to our sponsors: Purple: Experience the purple grid and you’ll sleep like never before. Go to purple.com/morbid10 and use promo code morbid10 for a limited time you’ll get 10% off any order of $200 or more Gabi: take a few minutes right now and stop overpaying on your car and home insurance go to gabi.com/morbid  Plushcare:  make your appointment today, go to plushcare.com/morbid See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbhead. It is a part two morbid. Ooh, part two of this fucked up dude. Did you guys like part one of Carl Panzeram? People loved part one little Carl little Carl just cause it all kinds of havoc everywhere I'm a little Carl My god, no Carl doesn't do anything that brings anyone any kind of joy

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no But yeah, everybody was really like thank you so much for you guys for the Carl on the track. No, we do not. But yeah, everybody was really like, thank you so much for you guys for the compliments on the first episode. Everybody was like, oh my god, I'm excited. So that makes me feel good. I love that. I feel like it's good.

I just like genuinely in a better mood as of yesterday. Yeah, I don't know what it, it's, you know, we're in a celebratory mood. We can't quite put our finger on one. Yeah, I don't know what it is. It feel, the world feels lighter yesterday I was just like oh all of a sudden it just but I felt like yeah, I felt like I could breathe. Yeah, I feel like I could be myself. I just feel happy

I did too. I feel happy. I feel gay. I feel you feel gay I feel proud of you for being gay. I feel, I feel just, I don't know. I just feel, I don't know. I feel history bearing down. I feel like I have like choices. Yeah, yeah, it feels that way. It's gonna be good. Yeah, it feels like the people that we love

and like support will have choices. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it just feels that way. I don't know. I don't know if you guys feel that way, but like we've just, oh, son, it's just somewhere in the universe. So yeah, so, hold on to everybody else. It feels that way. You know we've just, oh, son, it's just somewhere, something in the universe. So yeah, so yeah. So, hold everybody else feels that way. I think, you know, everybody should

be happy. Everybody, you know, happiness is fun. If you're happy and you know that clap your hands. So, I think now that we've talked about how happy we are, let's bring everybody back down. Way, way down into the dooms. Let's bring it down into the depth. Let's bring you down with the sickness. Down with the sickness. System of a down or as Ash calls it, let's listen to ninn, baby. If you don't know what we're talking about, there was a listener tail episode. I know what nine inch nails is. I just didn't know that people said, and I am when they were writing it. It's just funny. Ninh, Ninh.

I love that I'll, of all that I'm new Tori. Oh, yeah, that's pretty, that's the gaiest of all gaies. I was gonna say, I don't know what that tells about you, but it's something. That's what that's all about. It has something to do with it. I don't think we have any other, this is a technically quote unquote, a mini episode, I guess.

Yeah, the ones we don't really do anymore. Uh, so we don't really have a whole lot of business, I don't think. I don't think so. Yeah, I think just, uh, just general, like, happiness. That's really all. Yeah, just, just about Carl. Okay. So when we last left Carl, what was he doing? He was on a train, I feel.

No. No? No. Oh, he had killed someone, I feel. He had killed a few some ones. He was, you know, he was just on his way, on his yacht that he stole. Oh, yes, the yacht. And he was just, you know, hiring sailors for the day.

Carl was below deck. He was below deck Mediterranean. With Captain Lee. But he was just whining and dining them after workin' them all day. And then he was just killing them and raping them. Not in that order, the other order. Raping killing, not killing raping.

Not that, honestly, you probably wouldn't matter to Carl to be quite honest, so I don't really know. But either way, he was doing this quite often. He did it with a few people. And people back on land were starting to be like, huh, where's all these sailors going? Why does he have a different crew every day? People are really starting to leave in sirens again.

Yeah, they're all of a sudden like this is a little conspicuous, a little bit, because he's just literally like luring them out onto a shot, taking them out, murdering them, then coming back and being like, I would like another sailor please. So I think eventually they're like, what happened to the last 12 where the other ones go? Yeah. So he was like, all right, I should probably stop what I'm doing right now. And he had to switch up his style a little bit because he wasn't, he was like, I'm not going to stop murdering. No way, who said? That's something I'm not going to do.

But he was like, I gotta switch up the style. So, you know, he found a way he could still do that. Okay. So what he did was he picked up two sailors. And he picked up these two sailors that he wanted to kind of like work with him to commit crimes now. So now he's like, I wanna buddy's, buddy system.

Yeah, that's all the situation. And he was like, you know, these two sailors were kind of like, you know, they were like they were like, whatever, they were into it. They were like, yeah, we'll commit some petty crimes, we'll steal some shit. Why not? Because you know, it's like the 1920s. What the fuck else are we gonna do? We'll give the shit.

Right. Like, honestly. And so they were like, all right, we'll do this. So they traveled down the coast, robbing every yacht they passed. Awesome. So they're straight up pirates. And that is one thing exactly. Because one thing that Carl was really into

was Cowboys and Pirates. Oh. He grew up like being very interested them and he wanted to be them. They were just, because they're outlaws. Yeah. And that's what he wanted to be. So he is a pirate now.

He's being a pirate. He's living his dream. Dream big, I guess. Because dream a little bigger than Carl did. Dream, dream like better. Dream a little bigger than Carlton. Dream like, better. Dream. The Carls. Dream.

Like don't take the dream path that Carl took. Dream a better dream. Yeah, dream a way more wholesome dream than Carlton. Don't dream of being an actual pirate. No, no. Because they just stole tons of shit everywhere they went. They were really successful at it. Oh good.

They got tons of money. tons of shit to sell, and you know, it was with these two helpers. But he was sharing the stuff with him, like so that he was giving them pieces of the pie. Sure. And they were like, okay, so this must mean that like we're really like in kahoot's here. Yeah.

But his whole intention was like, sure, you can have pieces of the pie because I'm just gonna end up up killing you. Right. So it doesn't matter. Like, sure, hang on to this shit while you're on my yacht. You're not going to, like, I'm just going to take it back from you when I dump you in the water. Oh, that's sad. So it wasn't like an act of kindness or any kind of bond he had with them. He just knew that he was going to end up killing them. So in 1920, they hit bad weather coming into Atlantic City. Mm-hmm. And Carl is not a professional sailor. No, he's just a yacht stealer.

I don't know what you heard, but he's not. Because the word on the block is... I know, no. He sure made it seem like he was. He had this big yacht and he's taking sailors out there all the time, so he's making it look like he is, but he's not. So, he wasn't able to fare well in these bad weather, in this bad weather. So, the ship actually hit some rocks and sank.

Oh! It sank along with all the shit they had stolen. No, what happened to them though? Well, the Titanic lifeboat, they all three survived. Shoot! Weirdly enough. But the one thing that sank with the boat that was like the most devastating was that gun he had stolen from Taft.

Oh, that is devastating. And he was pissed because he was like, I planned on using this gun for a long time to keep pinning him on murder, like murders on, yeah, like connecting him to murder. So he'd have to hear about it every time I did it. And I was gonna be like on his ass forever. That doesn't cut short.

I think I got cut short. You're like, that sucks, Carl. I wish you got to pin more murders on that. I'm mad at Taff for sending him to like a really horrible person. It was a pretty bad idea. It really was. But I know support murder. No, definitely.

We don't support murder her. Murder her. Murder her. I said, we don't support murder her. We both just had a little moment. It's been a long week. I think everybody can agree. So like I said, all three men survived, which is nuts.

The two men, like the two sailors, when they got to land, ran off immediately. Like they were like, buy, because I think they probably knew, like he had other plans for them. I don't think Carl was exactly the kind of guy that you would like. I think you'd believe maybe he was like this,

like tough guy who was like dangerous, but maybe you had like some kind of rapport with him, but I don't think he was good enough to make you believe that he wasn't gonna fucking kill you. Oh good. So I'm pretty sure these two were like, yeah, we should just dip. Well, I'm glad they were able to dip.

So they ran away. And he was like, all right, well, I'm gonna murder someone else. Okay. I gotta do this. So now he's lost his, and he's pissed because he's like, now I plan to murder these two people and I didn't get my fix. Right. So what the fuck?

And my gun is gone. My gun is gone. My boat is gone. And all my shit is gone. And everything. Yeah. All my shit is gone. So now he's lost his boat. so he's back to jumping on trains. Okay. See, I knew, you said where's Carl, and I just, I was ahead of myself. You knew he would come back to the trains.

All good things lead to trains. Carl is the original boxed car child. He literally is. He loves it. He can't stop. Trains loves it. He loves it. So he jumped on more Trains loves it. He loves it. So he jumped on more trains and he's just traveling around.

He's doing carl things. He's just raping people, robbing people, left and right. Oh good. All like anywhere and anywhere. Okay. Because again, remember at the end, he's like, I have like raped and assaulted and murdered like thousands of people. Yeah.

But of course now he's murdered people now. So that's just- He's only recently started murdering people. So now he's like doing his thing, robbing rape in and he's like, it's not enough. This isn't given me what I need anymore. Exactly. So he's like, I need more.

So there is a small gap in what he was doing for a few months between then and the next thing. But honestly, like, we can probably assume he was just robbing and raping and possibly murdering more. Yeah. Like, I don't think he was like painting landscapes, like knitting blankets, like watching the great British Bake Off, like volunteering at the elder home. Yeah. I don't think he like picked up a hobby. I think he was doing more of the same started a podcast. Yeah, maybe. So he was 29 now. Oh. So old, you know, not 312.

You're right. Like you probably thought he was seriously with the life that Carl leads. I assumed that he was in his 80s. Oh, honestly, like when I read 29 when I was reading about this time in his life, I was like 29. Wow. It's like he's not 425.

Right. Are you sure? Did you do the math, right? This doesn't add up. So he ended up breaking into another mansion in New Haven like taps because he did it once with Taft so of course he's like I can do it with a regular whatever the fuck I want unfortunately the family was in there when it happened and he held them hostage the entire family the staff of the

mansion quietly alerted police while this was happening like go staff and he was arrested. Oh shit. He didn't do a good job at this one. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. Our newest series looks at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about two judges who stood accused of making millions of dollars in a brazen scheme that shattered the lives of countless children. Listen to American scandal on Amazon music

or wherever you catch your podcasts. He gave a fake name and only got six months in jail for like attempted robbery. Because it looked like his first brush with the law because he used a fake name. So he spent the time in jail, raping everyone he could because he felt like it. And he said it really brought like balance

and control to his life. So when he left, he felt like it. And he said it really brought balance and control to his life. So when he left, he was ready to get a job and maybe murder some more people, but do it smartly. With a job. Yeah. He was like, I want a job. He's like, murder doesn't come with health insurance.

Yeah, he was like, I'm definitely gonna murder more people, but like, yeah. I'd like to start an, is it an IRA? I'd like a 401k. Yes, yes. You know, we got a plan for the future. Retirement. We don't want to just go wily nilly.

Never. So what he did was he joined the flying squadron of the Siemens Union. Yes, obviously. And he helped the black legs, which we talked about in part one, who are like the scabs and then the blacklegs. Scabs will work for the lower wages and the blacklegs will just beat the shit out of the picketers.

Yes. So he started helping the blacklegs again when strikes happened within that union because he's really good at it. And he was learning to sail better while he was doing this. So he's also getting, he's learning to sail while also getting to beat the shit out of people. But that's like Carl's dream.

It's Carl's version of when you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life. That's how he feels. That's exactly what that is. He just loves what he's doing. That is food. And things escalated pretty quickly, which I'm sure you're like super shocked

that Carl's at the whole like maintain a level of decor of well-beating shit out of picket. It's very strange. Yeah. So people started using weapons as opposed to fists on the picket line. Good, good, not good. And one day a gunfight broke out with Carl at like leading the pack.

Of course police came and Carl decided to just fire on the police too because he just didn't give a shit. Why not? And the police were because he just didn't give a shit. Why not? And the police were able to arrest everyone including Carl. Mm-hmm. But they were all out on bail. Because they were like, the police

was working with the union at that time and it was all weird and shady. Messy, messy. Then they lost sight of him. Like, he was just nowhere. Once they put him out on bail, they started kind of pulling together the pieces of like, wait a second.

We think that Carl is also this guy and this guy like his aliases are starting to be pulled together. Oh, damn. So they tried to find him, couldn't find him. He has to get out of here because obviously the heat is on now. Right. So he's got to get out of here fast. So he snuck on a ship that was headed for Portuguese and Gola, which is on the west coast of Africa. Okay. So he's really getting that in here. I was gonna say, he's not just like going to Canada. He's not just skipping town, he's really leaving. When he actually showed it,

so he like stayed down and like stowed away, basically. Wow. And then he got bored of that. So he just walked up on the deck and was like, hi everybody, I stowed away. What the fuck? And so he reveals himself like, hello, I'm a stow away. Tizai Carl.

Tizai Carl. They were like, what the fuck? And they were pissed, obviously, because stowaways are not good. Normally, don't they just like throw them over? Or usually, but then he was like, look, I'm a big dude. And they were like, you are quite big.

And he was like, you are quite big. He was like, I can use my bigness and I can work. So why don't you just like put me to work and all you have to do is just let me off at the next stop. I have to pay me. So of course they're like, all right, we'll see if we can do it. We'll see if we can do it.

They were down with girls to bigness. And so they were like, all right, that's cool. So he worked, he did great. The crew loved him. No murder. I he did great, the crew loved him. No murder. I think the Pirates Life was for him. I think if he had stayed a pirate, he would have done way better.

What's the song? A Pirates Life for me. But what did they say? Yohoi. Oh yeah, yohoho and a bottle of rum. Yes, yeah. But for him, it's like yohoho and a bottle of rum. I'm gonna murder someone.

Yeah, that doesn't quite relax at all. It doesn't, but Carl ho and a bottle of murder, someone. Doesn't quite roll off the top. It doesn't, but Carl definitely would have been better as a pirate. I think he would just want to, should have sailed. The Seven Seas. He could have found his bro Jack Sparrow and all would be lovely. I think a lot of lives would have been saved, to be honest.

So they get to their next destination. And the captain is literally like, please stay on my crew. Because you're so great. You're really good. You're so big. Please stay on my crew. Because you're so great. You're really good. You're so big. Please stay on my crew. I am so down with your thickness. So do not leave me.

And he was like, I'm sorry. Like, I can't. I need to get off. He's like, I want to get off here. I want to go live a life of luxury, where I just like float around and know and know who I am. I just want to do that.

All right. Be on the 7C. He's like, I don't form relationships, can't know. He was like, I don't form relationships now. He was like, I don't want to be friends. And I think he also kind of felt like being on a crew and like, under someone was too much like prison. Like, it was too like, regulated for him.

And he was like, oh, I don't like that. Okay. So in 1921, he decided he was going to hide out. And this is 1921, by the way, like the same year. But he decides that he's going to hide out where they dropped him 1921, by the way, like the same year. But he decides that he's gonna hide out where they dropped him off, which is in Africa, in Angola. And he's gonna hide out here because he's white,

and he can get away with whatever the hell he wants there, back then. So he was like, I'm just this white guy. I can walk around and I can like just fuck around, and nobody knows who I am, and no one's gonna dare do anything to me. Right. Which The ultimate white privilege. Yeah, exactly. He could be whatever kind of fuckhead He wanted to be and trust me. He is. Oh no. So I want to warn now because it's gonna be coming up in a little while. It I know

I know I said this before and I was like it's gonna get gnarly and you were like no it already did no gnarlier It didn't get gnarly. like, it's gonna get gnarly and you were like, no, it already did. No. NARLEAR. It didn't get gnarly. Okay. It's gonna get gnarly. So just letting you know, there's some really violent things that happen in the next few things. So just be prepared. Okay. You need a break?

Go take one. I'll be here when you get back to ruin your dreams. I might not be. Yeah. The ash might not be, but I'll be here. I'll be here to keep just shoving this down your throat. So So he got a job when he got there because you know Carl Carl gets jobs Yeah, that's one thing about Carl

He's not just gonna walk around him. You know, he's gonna rob he's gonna do that stuff But he also is like I need an honest days. I was gonna say he makes it honest living Which is strange to me it is strange that he constantly needs to get a job because he's really good at stealing and robbing. Like he probably could live off of that if he really wanted to. Yeah. So it's a strange, his psychology is beyond. He doesn't like to over-indulge. Yeah. It's like, he just needs like that kind of normalcy, which is weird. I think he needs some kind of regulation, but like not too much. Right.

And when it becomes too much, that's when he goes bonkers. So he gets a job. And it's with the Sinclair oil company there because it was an American oil company. He did well working there. He made money like he was doing, you know, doing okay, being Carl. He used this money, however, for really fucked up shit. Okay. So, this is where it gets real bad.

Trigger warning. Did he buy people? Trigger warning? Yes. So, I'm not going to go into detail because I don't want to. You can go ahead and read his book or you can read Killamall by Ryan Green if you want. Narly detail?

I do not. So he was feeling weird. He was starting to feel weird about the fact that he wasn't attracted to women. It was starting to like all of a sudden be a parent to him. And he was like, you know what? Why don't I ever have the urge to like rape a woman? Like I just don't want to.

Oh gee, what a horrible thing to laugh. Which is like the okay. And it's like like so he was like You know what I got to fix this so he did something horrific to fix this He bought an 11 year old girl for the evening from her family. Oh, no he did this for six dollars six American dollars They with the promise that she was a virgin. I know this is horrific I'm not going to detail. And he wanted the virgin aspect because,

remember, he thinks women are unclean in the STD before. Only women are the ones who carry disease, it's not men. And so he was like, I wanna make sure I don't have to like deal with that. So he apparently determined somehow, don't know how, don't care to know how, that he felt she was not clean and pure and was not a virgin. So he returned her to her family and then he demanded that they hand over their eight-year-olds as exchange. Now he then apparently intended to rape her, but couldn't.

He just didn't, he tried, he like, he didn't, according to him, he didn't like actively try to, but he was about to. And then all of a sudden, he just said, fuck, I don't wanna touch girls. Like he was literally like, I can't do it, which it's like, that's a child's. So you're not really testing your women theory, that's a fucking child.

Right, you're testing your child theory. You're testing your pedophilia theory, which you've already tested because you rape little boys. So you're gross, Carl. Like, don't try to make it like a gay thing. You're gross. Right. I don't feel bad for Carl ever. Like, you're a pedophile. That's what you are. That's what you should be concerned about.

Let's stop thinking about who you're attracted to, like, gender wise. Let's really talk about age. Age. Age, like, that's the problem. And the fact that you're a murderer. So he then apparently just brought this girl back to her family in the middle of the night and like just like threw her at them and was like,

fuck, and then just like walked away and they were like, what? Okay. Yeah, so he was infuriated at this point. He's infuriated that he couldn't do it, that he didn't want to. And so he starts drinking whiskey heavily, like every day, he's still like, I gotta just get fucked up all the time now

because I don't know what I'm gonna do. Okay. So while he's, so he's drinking whiskey, he's being waited on at the company like, food hall, where he's just like drunk and just like getting food and drink. And he's being waited on by the teenage son of one of his coworkers. Oh no. Now he started grooming this teenager for a few nights and then he ended it by raping the

boy brutally. Oh yeah. And this was only after a couple of days of just like grooming him. Well this boy smartly and immediately reported this to Carl's boss. Right. And his boss fired him, obviously. Yeah. And when he did, but I say obviously, but it wasn't, I know. I'm, it's not like this guy was like, what? Right.

That's terrible. Because this boy was the son of a local. And this means this white guy boss didn't give a shit. The only reason he fired him is so that he wouldn't have to deal with the backlash. That's all it was. Keeping up appearances. I just want to be clear that that like fuck that guy too.

So he fires him. Carl took it really well and just let, no, he didn't. He didn't take it really. I was like, no, he didn't. No, Carl immediately punched him in the face as soon as he fired him. And then he kept punching him and then beat him with a chair until he was in a coma Yep, okay, that's boss fired him not right you deal with that and he beat him into a coma

It's gonna be an HR situation. Yeah, so now he's fucked because now he's done a lot of bad stuff And it's starting to get around in a matter of like one day. Yeah. So now he's like, I got to get back to America. Yeah. I'm a pair. I've apparently worn out my welcome here like real fast. Like real like a month. Yeah. And so he asked he asked the American consulate. He's like, um, excuse me. No, he demanded the American consulate that they give him passage on a ship back to America. Uh-huh. And they were like, ah, no, you're a fucking monster. Right. And they were like, want to know how we know you're a monster?

Because police and new haven have already given me us your shit. And also, your boss, who has come out of the coma, has reported your ass and you're a fucking piece of shit. Oh, yes. So, they were like, everyone knows you're your piece of shit, you're not coming back. And he was like, oh, you would think that they would extradite him and then put him in jail. Well, I think at that time they were just like,

whatever, we don't give shit, your piece of shit. Just go live in the woods or something. So they just like, no, you can't leave. But you're not gonna put your job here. You're giving their passage on a ship. Okay. So now he just decided to literally camp outside the Sinclair oil company.

Because he's pissed. Remember, he does not take slights. No, well, no. And he is like, in his mind, he's like, anyone I can pick off and just rape and kill for spite out here, I'm gonna do it. Okay. Because now this is what I'm gonna do.

And everybody in there knew he was camping out around there and they were walking together in groups because of it. Like he's grown ass men. I don't blame them. Carlis huge and scary. Then one morning, a 12 year old boy who was running errands for the oil workers came across him in his little campsite.

No. And he couldn't figure out what way the oil company was so he asked him for directions. And Carl pretended to help him. He was like, sure, I'll take you. So he brought him to an abandoned rock quarry, and he raped him and killed him by repeatedly slamming his head into a rock. He wrote in his, there's a quote from him that says, quote, his brains were coming out of his ears when I left him and he will never be any deader.

He is still there. Oh, yeah. Wow. He loves saying that his brains were coming out of his ears, which I'm like, I feel like you're, I feel like you're exaggerating. Over and over and over again. Okay. But either way, it's fucked up.

Now, before leaving town, he set the oil place on fire. Oh, awesome. So, he literally destroyed the livelihood of everyone who worked there. Perfect. Because he loves doing that. Now, because, and again, revenge. That's like all he lives for. You slight him in the littlest way, and he's going to burn your whole fucking shit down.

Carl, I feel like you just need a good therapist. He needs something, man. He needs better health. He does. And so the next place he went was a place called Labido Bay. He did, which was just like out of town. Okay. There, he hired six local men to take him, they're like hunters and like, they're like tour guides. Yeah. To take him by canoe to a place where hunters often hunted these huge crocodiles. Okay. Now, these people, like people do it all the time, it would usually be like three hunters that would hire these six guys, but it was just Carl this time.

Yeah. Now, in Killamall, it says, there's two different stories about these murders that occur. Carl's version, and then in Killamall they tell a little different of a version. Now the one in Killamall that book says that they set up camp at one point up the river because they were going for a long time. And in the dead of night Carl woke up and told one of them he had to go to the bathroom. They were taking shifts guarding the campsite because crocodile. So the one that took the guard shift followed him to the edge of the campsite while he peed and Carl raped and shot the guard and then did the same thing with the other five men. Oh my god. Then he just left them all there.

According to Carl, his own version is just as horrific, but he has added racial slurs to it. So that's fun. Because he's a literal dung pile. But he has added racial slurs to it, so that's fun. Because he's a literal dung pile. He says that he shot them all in the canoe, which I'm like, I don't believe that version. I more believe the other version, but okay. Yeah, because why would you kill them all? You're in a canoe in like crocodile-infested waters.

And then he said he dumped them overboard. And in his words, I do believe he like killed them at the campsite and then dumped them in the water. Yeah, because that's his ammo. And in his words minus the believe he like killed them at the campsite and then dumped them in the water. Yeah, because that's his Emma and in his words minus the slurs he said quote I was looking for crocodiles. I found them plenty. They were all hungry. So I fed them That's not what that is I don't know. Yeah, so then he took the canoe back to libido bay and he just shows up by himself in the canoe and everyone's like What the fuck happened to the six guys that took you out man?

Like there was six guys right where are they and he's like oh my god So weird they all got attacked by crocodiles not me though and everyone there was like I Don't even believe that for one second. And then they were like, why don't you have a scratch on you? Like they all got attacked and he was like, don't know. Because crocodiles don't like... He was like, I'm Carl, that's why I fought off all the crocodiles. He's like, I literally beat a crocodile myself.

And honestly, he could. Like, I fully believe he could. But they were like, yeah, dude, you can't go out with six hired hunters and then come back with none of them and then expect people not to be like, excuse me. What? Why would it? Why would he even go back? Because he just doesn't give a shit. I know it's an honest, scariest thing. There's doctors, like psychologists, that said, it looked like he wanted to be caught at every turn. Really? And then he almost wanted to be caught so he could escape.

Because it's all just a game. turn. And then he almost wanted to be caught so he could escape. Because it's all just a game. And I feel like he almost wanted, he was like this close all the time to wanting like structure. Yeah. But then he would get it and he fights against it, but then he's like wants it again. So it's like he almost does things

to get the structure of prison. Yeah. It is weird. Very weird. Well, unfortunately, even though they everyone there knew that what he did, they all knew. Right. They're like, of course you did this. But there's no, like, quote unquote evidence. Well, they were all furious, but they couldn't do anything because racism.

And if an American white man was massacred there, because they all wanted to fucking kill him, right? If an American white man was massacred there, they would be the ones to blame. Even though everyone in Hartford was looking for him. Right. If an American white man was massacred there, they would be the ones to blame. Even though everyone in Hartford is looking for him. Exactly. It's bullshit. So he got away because Carl slips through everything like a fucking cockroach. Right. So he stowed away on an English ship heading to Evan Mouth. Evan Mouth. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Evan Mouth. Is that what it is? Evan Mouth. I don't know. Evan Mouths. Evan Mouths. I'm sorry, England. I'm so sorry. Evan Mouths, is that what it is? Evan Mouths.

I don't know. Evan Mouths. I'm from here just like you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, England. He got on an English ship and he went to England. A part of England. That's all that matters.

It doesn't really matter because he doesn't do anything there, so don't worry about it. Okay. Then he got on an US ship in England and went to the US. Got it. Oh, oh, oh. He stowed away. Oh, oh, oh, oh, he's so good at that. So he ended up making his way to Salem, Massachusetts. Shut the fuck up. And he doesn't do cool things there. Like it's not like he's visiting Salem and like doing haunted happenings or, you know, doing gray vetshings or something. Oh, he should have. He should have, but instead, on July, in July 1922, he murdered a 12-year-old boy there. She's a 12-year-old boy named Henry McMahon. He did this by beating his head against a rock.

Oh, yeah. He said, quote, I left him laying there with his brains coming out of his ears. He adored him while he was on his way to go to the grocery store to get groceries for his family. He even accompanied this boy to the store where his aunt worked and spoke to his aunt. What the fuck? Bottom magazine and then lured George away to our Henry away to brutalize him. It's like that's another like example of he wanted to get caught. It's like he oh yeah did that on purpose Well, even more because he after slamming so he brutalized him

He raped him and then he slammed his head into a rock several times Killed him and then stuffed pages of the magazine down his throat What the fuck after he was dead and it can only be Summized from that that he was letting everyone know that he was the one who did it because he just bought that magazine from his aunt. Right. So he did that to be like that was me. What? Like what? So he's done

with that now. So off he went to New Orleans. Oh goodness. And when he was there, he robbed a hospital. And how do you rob a hospital? Yeah. he got into a supply room, and he robbed a ton of cocaine, morphine, and opium. I love that cocaine was in the hospital. That's a pain, yeah, because it was something I knew. That's so nuts.

And he sold it around New Orleans, St. Louis, and New York. He's like, this is this quality coke. Yeah, he's from the hospital. Yeah, he's from the hospital. What? This medical grade. So he was, and he sold it in New York, too. So he went back to

New York in 1923 and he started working as a watchman at a Beacon Wheel Company. This is where he met another victim for him to at the very least assault. A boy of about 14 or 15 named George Willison. He said he wanted to teach him the fine art of Sodami. That's not artful. No, isn't. But then he said he already knew about it and was cool about it. So I didn't really have to do much. And you're like, OK. So a bit later, he got a job as a watchman in New Haven,

Connecticut at the New Haven yacht club. Oh, he went back to New Haven. Oh, yeah, he didn't give a shit. OK, Ken. He does not give a shit. He stole a boat, again, the very next night, and the boat's owner was the police commissioner of New Rochelle, New York. What the fuck?

Yeah. And when he stole the boat, he also stole his pistol. No. A... Back in action. And what was it? It was a 38 cult double action side break gun. One of those.

So which I say, bully. So he stole another yacht a few, because I think he just stole that. He stole all the shit then he just like dumped it somewhere. Yeah. Like he just wanted to steal the like the shit on it. So then a few weeks later in Providence, Rhode Island. Hey, oh, he's, he went back, he stole another yacht and he used that to go back to New York. Okay. There. He's world tour. It is. Well, once he was back in New York, he picked up his boy George again. Hit the 14 or 15 years.

Oh, same kid. Same kid. And he was like, hey, do you want to like work with me? And we can like rob a few places. And it'll be like money for you and your family. And he was like, okay. Sure. So he was like, yeah, let's do this.

So Carl painted the boat, changed the name, changed all the papers, and such. And he was like, we're going to sell this boat. Okay. And so he tried to do it. And a guy came to the yacht, but like to look at it. Yeah. But Carl said immediately, he got like a feeling about this guy. And it turned out that the guy tried to rob Carl. Oh, shit. My how the turn tables have turned. Yes. If anybody watches the office. So, so he's like, holy shit, so Carl ends up shooting him dead. Of course, because you're not going to get the jump on Carl. No. It's not going to happen. So he ended up shooting him twice, throwing him in the water,

and in his words, quote, after I killed him, I tied a big hunk of lead around him with a rope, and through him and the gun overboard. He's there yet so far as I know. So we got rid of the gun that he had? Yeah, the gun that the guy drew. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. So, and I love how he keeps saying like guy that person's still there. I'm like, do you know how decomposition works? I know, right?

You know how like the world works? Still there. Do you know how biology works? Like he's like, he's still there. Well, he probably doesn't though because he didn't get to go to school. No, he definitely doesn't. So they kept on sailing, robbing everywhere, like getting tons

of money, cuttings the stuff. Then George suddenly was like, I'm scared. And I want to go back home. Yeah. Like, I don't like this because you like murder guy. They were like stealing a ton of stuff. Can I just go home? He's like, I didn't realize that. So this was going to be like, this is not as cool as I thought it was going to be. And so he lived in Yonkers and he was like, can I please go home? Carl just brought him home. Weird. Just dropped him off. Very weird.

Let him go home. Well then the kid was like, cool, thank you. Went right to the police and told him everything. Yeah, like what? It's another example of like wanting to be caught. Yes. So police caught him and arrested him. He was charged with Sodomy, Burglary, Robbery. And I think he was also charged with trying

to escape the jail as soon as he got there. Shocking. But he got a lawyer this time. And a lawyer decided to represent Carl. A lawyer named DJ Cashin, which is very much a lawyer name, I feel. And he gave for the payment this lawyer. He was like, you can have my yacht

if you get me off this. Wait, I can't believe I like, I missed this moment. DJ Cashin, we the best. Okay, there you go. There you go. So he's like, for payment to get me off of these charges I'll give you the yacht. Yeah, and here's all the papers my yacht. Yeah, so he ended up getting him off somehow Wow, got him off all the charges and when cash in went to go with the yacht papers to register the new boat

The original owner came back from Providence and took the fucking boat back So he basically did that crowbow now. He did, because he was like, this is my stolen boat, you fucker. This is mine. And Carl knew that. He was like, eventually that dude's gonna come back for his boat.

He's not gonna be able to get it. It's not my fucking boat. So he's like, man, not off it. So Carl's out again. And now he's back to New Haven once more. Wow. Where he raped and killed another boy. He said in his own words, he

quote, tied his belt around his neck and strangled him, picked him up when he was dead and threw his body over behind some bushes. It's interesting to me that he like doesn't have a specific like, like choosing a bad to kill someone. It's like he'll do anything. He'll just do any. He loves smashing against a rock. He likes to strangle. It's all hands-on. Yeah, he will shoot people But he it seems like he'll only shoot men and he likes to physically overpower boys. Yeah, which is a strange pathology Now right after this he went back to New York and he robbed a post office Okay, well he got caught in the act of that So what happened? Good job and got five years in Singsing prison.

Oh. Now, he got another five years tacked on to that to serve in Danimora, because of all the prison sentences he had gotten and escaped from and not served. Yeah. So they were like, we're going to start tacking these back onto your sentence. And in October 1923, he was transferred from sing-sing to Clinton Correctional Facility

in Denimora, New York, which is better known as Denimora prison. Okay. It's known for being a scary ass place, and there's scary inmates in there. It sounds familiar. It's like the prison for incorrigibles or something. It's like people who they just can't fix.

Is that the one where those two guys escaped from recently? It is, yeah. Okay, cool. Uh, he tried to make some kind of bomb-like device while he was there. Oh, I'm pretty serious. To burn it to the ground. Uh, he was caught. He also tried to kill another inmate there, well, by hitting him on the head from behind with a 10-pound club. Yeah. The inmate survived that, I don't know how.

Because they must have been like bigger than Carl. But Carl got some extra time tacked on. He then tried to escape on July 25th, 1924, but he was caught again trying to escape. And this was like a crazy escape. And he was put in isolation for a long time. Now during this escape attempt, he like really hurt himself. Like he felt like 30 feet.

Oh, yeah. And so he had two broken ankles, a twisted back, he really hurt himself. He felt like 30 feet. Oh, yeah. And so he had two broken ankles, a twisted back, and a ruptured testicle. A ruptured testicle. Yes. Which, like, was he trying to pick a lock with his testicle? I don't understand. Yeah.

How do you rupture your testicle? Like, I'm sure falling from a great height, I'm sure that had somebody do that, but I was like, did he use it like a rope to like, repel down the wall? Ouch. I don't even have a testicle. It just sounded painful. It just seems like a strange injury to get. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I did back oof. It's a bummer. And I know falling from a great height, you can rupture a testicle. I know that it's just fun to do it. It's just funny to pretend that he used it to pick a lock. So in August 7th, just to pretend that he used it to pick a lock. So in August 7th, 1925, at the age of 33, he had surgery because he's only 33.

He's not 625, like you all think, what? He had surgery and during this surgery in prison, he had his testicle removed. You have two testicles, right? Yeah. Yes, okay. I don't know. I love it.

I knew I was just confirming. That's a great, I can't wait for people to start tweeting that. Can we put that out of shirt? You have two testicles, right? You have two testicles, right? Hashtag gay. So he said he tried to see. He was like, so I got the testicle removed. And I was like, can the rest of it still work

without this one testicle, which like spoiler alert, it can. Yeah. Carl, you're okay. Yeah. Plenty of people just have one testicle. So like he decided that he was gonna test this out, so he just started raping in mates again. Awesome.

So he got caught in the middle of raping in in mate, and he got two years in segregation for it. That's all. Two years. So he was really going off the deep end at this point, but according to him, he was just really focused, and it is like, he was just vibing. Is it like that, was the death penalty like a thing back then?

Like how did he not get that? It was. Oh he does, don't worry. Okay. And but this time I mean because again he's just getting caught for weird shit at this point. And he's got so many aliases that they have not been able to tie all these back to him. Right.

So while he's in there he had a lot of time on his hands and he started to write things down and make plans. And he has a lot of terroristic kind of plans. He wants to like, you know, bomb trains. He thinks that would be a lot of fun. And then he also thought about starting a war between England and the United States. You know what? I believe that he could have. I feel like he could. Like I almost made fun of that. And then I was like, anybody's gonna do it. It's Carl. It's Carl.

Yeah. He also planned to poison an entire city's water supply with arsenic. Oh, so that's a plan. And he said he would have done all this. I believe it. And he said, except that quote, there were circumstances and luck that were against me.

Yeah. And I honestly believe that. I do too. In 1928, he was released. Why? Because again, he only had to serve those two sentences. He got like a little bit tacked onto a sentence, but he served it out.

He worked through that. So in his words, as soon as he got out, quote, 18 days after release, I committed six to eight, six or eight burglaries. And two days later, I committed a murder in Philadelphia. A week later, another murder in Philadelphia was a little boy. Oh. Another younger boy. A week later, I committed a burglary in Baltimore, 12 days later, a burglary in Washington, D.C., the next day or two, I committed two more burglaries in Baltimore, then I was arrested in Baltimore and brought back to Washington, DC, where I was put in the DC, Joe.

Wow. So he really went for it. Yeah. Rain of terror. Rain of terror. Seriously. And the last thing he was caught for was stealing from a popular dentist in the area.

And they caught him coming out the window of this place with like a clock, with like a big radio. Of Novakine. Like, no, just like a lady. No, I don't. Like, what were you doing? I like that that's what he stole from a dentist.

That's what you got caught for? He didn't get caught for murdering the little boy. He got caught for stealing a radio from a dentist. That's just dumb. No, this was on August 10th, 1928, that he was arrested. Yeah. Doctors again agree and they look at this stuff as like he definitely wanted to be caught.

Yeah, like there's just something. Because he knows how to get away with murder. He does else. Cause he knows how to get away with murder. He does. So obviously he knows how to get away with stealing the plot. And to go on that kind of rampage, you're looking to get caught, or to draw attention to you. Right. Now he was described by police at this time as quote,

a bear-like man with a limp, a heavy black mustache, and a gate hard eyes. A what? A gate hard eyes. Okay. Or agate. I'm not really sure. I don't know what that word means. I don't either. I usually know what words mean.

You do. So that's why I was waiting for you. It's a gay A-G-A-T-E. Okay, I'll look it up all you talk. It might be like agate hard or a gay card. I miss, I think it's probably like something to do with like steely eyes or like dangerous eyes, cold eyes, something like that. So it was in the DC jail that he ended up or not in the DC jail, excuse me, in the next prison that he goes to, that he meets a guard named Henry Lesser. Okay.

This guard is a 25 year old prison guard. He's apparently a very like good man. And this would be a relationship like the only relationship he would actually have in his life, like a friendship. Wow. And he actually genuinely had a weird friendship with this man. I think this is really weird. Going back to the gate,

it's an ornamental stone consisting of hard variety of something typically branded in appearance, or a colored toy marble resembling a banded gemstone. Okay, so we had like stonias. Yeah. That makes sense. Still don't know if it's a gate or aget, but either way. So he met this prison guard, Henry Leicester, and immediately like, Henry Leicester is kind of like

talking to him like a real person, and he's like, I don't know about this, it's weird. And Leicester became very interested in Carl because he was like, what the fuck is your deal? Yeah, you're weird dude. Same. And Carl told him when he asked, like, what do you do? He was like, I reform people like you do.

Oh. And he was like, no, you did not. He was like, that's how you got yourself here? Yeah, he was like, no, no. So when he first got to this place, he was put in the basement and placed on a snorting pole, which we talked about in part one. Okay. Basically, he was hoisted up with handcuffs on a rope where his toes were barely touching

the ground. He was left there for 12 hours. And he was already in a lot of pain because he had broken bones and like fucked himself up from that escaped attempt. So he was already like fucked up. And so he was in agony. He was like screaming the whole time, I guess. They even had a doctor checking in on him periodically through the torture just to make

sure he didn't die. What the fuck? And surprise that he was screaming. I know. I get it. That's the thing. So you know, he was in pain. And I guess he was screaming threats at the guards and telling them what he would do to

their children when he got out. And he was giving them details about the murders he had already committed on children. So he's now he's confessing. Right. And so they were like, what the fuck? So they ended up clubbing him into unconsciousness. They were like, we don't want to hear this. I can't. No. Some say he got a second. I saw some sources that said he got a second night doing this too, because he threatened the doctor's assistant. Like he threatened to rape the doctor's assistant. like he threatened to rape the doctor's assistant. He's like, you can save her in other 12 hours. Now they have this confession. And you

would say like, obviously it's under extreme torture and arrests. Right. Are we really going to believe that he had admitted to murdering boys in Philadelphia and New Haven in Boston. Yeah. So he had actually admitted these earlier to other detectives. He had said the same stories, but the detectives thought he was just trying to act like a tough guy. You know, criminals. Yeah, let's not look into murder. No, let's not do that, especially child murder.

No way. Now in the fall of the same year, 1928, he was caught trying to escape and he was tortured again. And when he was brought back to his cell, Lesser gave him sympathy. And like gave him, I think he gave him like a couple of extra like, like some prison money basically.

Just because he was like, you know what? Like I see that you have not had a good life. And I feel like you're just like, whatever, which I'm like, he murdered people, particularly children. Let's not be nice to child murderers. He also rapes a lot of people. This is not a man that you want to be friends with,

but like, go off lesser. Okay, some are hurting. So, so like lesser didn't know the full extent. And he actually said, and I guess this actually like touched Carl, like genuinely he was like, this person is like being nice to me. Okay. So he actually told lesser,

quote, you are one of the few people I do not wish to harm. That's interesting. Big words. Because you think about the guy that helped him in the first place like that prison guy and he like didn't give a fuck. But he didn't want to harm him either.

Yeah. And he also like, he felt guilty. Exactly. So I think he looked at this like, wait, is this another person? Another chance. Yeah. So he started opening up to him now.

Okay. He wants to tell him his story. And he was like, I think you can handle it. I want to tell you about it. Can you handle it? Can you handle it? And because at one point, I like the guard was like, what, you know,

what are you going to tell me your story? I like your life. If you never tell me like real things about your life. And he was like, I don't know, like I'll tell you when I tell you. And he was like, well, I'm here when you want to tell it. And I think that was when Carl was like, shit, someone's here for me, what? Yeah, he was like, what? So at one point, he was like, can I have a pen it like a paper and pencil and I'll write it down. Like I'll write down my life story. So he was like, cool. So he ended up finding out that Carl had a secret love of philosophy. Oh, like

knew all like the like Kant and like all the different philosophers. He had like opinions about them. Wow. He felt like certain things about it was very strange. So it's like where the hell did you pick that up? Yeah. In your travels. Like okay, Socrates. Yes, just in there. So then he asked him, he was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write this whole in there. So then he asked him, he was like, I'm gonna write this whole thing down. He was like, someday, we'll like publish this. Yeah. My life story, because it's crazy.

So we ended up writing down some like 20,000 words. Wow. Which, like, let me tell you, that's a lot of words. That is. So by the point, by this point, they had witnesses from Salem come down while he was being held to identify him as the man who had killed Henry McMahon, the little boy. Right. point. They had witnesses from Salem come down while he was being held to identify him as

the man who had killed Henry McMahon, the little boy. Right. Because that murder in Salem of Henry McMahon, the 12-year-old, that was everywhere. It was only national news. Oh wow. It was a big deal. So he was given life without parole for that murder. And he was the one who he bought groceries with him before? Yeah, that was the one that he brought. Yeah, that was the one that he bought groceries with him before? Yeah, that was the one that he brought.

Yeah, that was the one that he bought the groceries. And the grocery saw the aunt and then yeah. Okay. So he was eventually given life without parole, but it was November 11, 1928 at 36 years old again, not 500. Not 800 million. He was sentenced to life in prison at 11 worth, and he was transferred there on January 30, 1929.

So he's back there. Back to Levinworth. Because it's federal prison. So lesser and Carl stayed in touch. At prison. And they wrote letters to each other. They had like a genuine friendship. Weird.

And Carl was put on Laundry Room duty at Levinworth, but he hated it. I was going to say that sounds like a bad idea. And there was a guard there that supervised the inmates in the laundry room and his name was Robert Warnke for some reason Carl immediately hated this man. Huh? He hated him. And then this guy started fucking with Carl. Carl's a cancer so he's very sensitive to vibes. There you go. So he got a vibe from this guy and this guy was

fucking with him. So he hated this guy. Yeah. He hated him. Now other inmates said he would just stare at him coldly like he wanted to kill him like every second. That's really scary. And they all said that they were just waiting for something bad to happen. They were like, shit, was gonna go down. It was gonna must be wild.

I know. Well, then he really fucked himself because Carl started doing like extra laundry, I guess, to get extra money to spend on like cigarettes and all that stuff. Yeah. And when he found out he was doing extra work for extra money, he sent him to solitary confinement for it.

It's not fair. Like, he did something wrong. So he really fucked himself over, because again, you don't spite Carl. No, you just don't do. Especially when he's washing your lights. Exactly. So after solitary, he came out, it was real mad. Yeah, I'm probably jacked.

But he came out of, yeah, in back into the laundry room duty, but he didn't want to work there anymore. Because I think he was like, I don't know if he's trying to separate himself from the problem. But he was like, I don't want to work with him anymore. And he, so he requested a work transfer twice, but Warnke himself and the warden made sure he couldn't transfer. Oh, so he signed his own. Exactly. Right. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively

on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings,

breaking down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. June 20th, 1929, Carl snuck up behind Warnkey in the laundry room

and hit him over the head with a four foot ten pound copper bar that he had ripped out of the plumbing with his bare hands. What the fuck? And he had snuck it in just for this purpose. So Warren Key died on the spot. He sneak in a copper bar. He just, well, he ran in there and just started beating him. He was beaten so badly that there was nothing left of his head.

Yes. There's a lot of dead air on this episode. A lot. It's just me with my mouth a deep. So Carl had now brutally murdered a prison guard at a federal prison. Not good. So I think this is when it's like, you got it now.

Right. So he ended up writing in a letter to lesser. Well, I got a change all right, but I had to kill my boss to get it. That makes either 21 or 22 that I have to my credit now. You can put that in your little story book and if I keep living much longer I could have some more to put in my graveyard. Yeah yeah yeah yeah unless it's like well damn. He's like I don't know how I feel about this friendship anymore.

No at this point lesser was like I got to do something with these letters and with that whole thing like confession confession that he wrote down, like that journal basically. He was like, I can't just sit on this shit. So he's sending it to like medical publications and like full, you know, psychologists and publishers and all these put like just someone look at this and tell me what the fuck is going on. He just wanted to understand why he was the way he was. Because he was like, I understand he had a crazy upbringing like shit happened to him, but like I've never seen someone so evil in my life. So this is when a well-known psychologist named Carl, Dr. Carl Menager, became involved. Another Carl. Another Carl. And he looked at these writings, and he was like, I got to talk to Carl myself. We're going to need to see this in person. So when

he met with him to discuss the confessions and his psychology, he was like ch I gotta talk to Carl myself. We're in need to see this in person. So when he met with him to discuss the confessions and his psychology, he was like chained up onto it like to a table. So as not to murder. So as not to rip him apart. And he actually told Carl, like, or told Pans Ram, because they're both Carl.

Yes. He told Pans Ram that even though he was a vicious murder, he was like, I don't feel like you would hurt me given the chance. I don't feel like you would hurt me given the chance. I don't think you should test Carl, Carl. So this is when Carl threw himself forward. Luckily, it was like shackled. I'm surprised he couldn't break through the shackles.

It said to him, quote, and this is by this doctor says this was what was said. Take these off of me for three minutes and I'll show you. I'll kill you right here before their eyes, before they can even stop me. You won't even have time to be scared. Oh. And then he was like, then he just sat back and was like, alright, let me tell you everything I've done. Let's conduct the interview.

He was like, let's chat about my murders. The fuck? It's like, whoa! That's like not an Ed Comper vibe. No. So April 15, 1939, he went on trial for Warren Key's murder. Right. He was immediately found guilty

and sentenced to death by hanging. I believe that. Now, at one point, he said, I just had to add this quote in here because it was hilarious. His quotes are wild. When he was talking about his like confessing to all these murders, he said that he used a silencer for a couple of murders

on a gun, but they didn't work the way he wanted it to. And so he said if it had worked, he was like silencers or bullshit. If they worked, then I would have, quote, gone into the murder business on a wholesale scale. My intentions were good because I'm a man who goes around the world doing people good. No, you're not though. And it's like, no. Oh, no. Or an elmurder. Okay, this is not BJ's Carl.

He also said, quote, it is unnatural that I should have absorbed these things and have become what I am today. A treacherous, degenerate, brutal human savage devoid of all decent feelings without conscience, morals, pity, sympathy, principle, or any single good trait. Why am I what I am?

I don't know. That's what he asked the doctor and the doctor was like, I don't know. He's like, well, no one about 30 years. There's like, I'm not exactly sure. So he told, this is what he wrote in a letter to Henry Lesser. Sure. I'm going to give you guys a website at the end of this, which is maintained

and it has all the letters he wrote to Henry Lesser. Yeah. You can read them yourselves and it's fascinating. That must be really cool. I'll give you guys the website so you can go do a real- And we'll put it in the show notes too. Yeah, for sure.

So in one of them, he said, in my lifetime, I have murdered 21 human beings. I have committed thousands of burglaries, robberies, arsons, and last but not least, I have committed sodomy on more than 1,000 male human beings. For all of these things, I'm not the least bit sorry. I have no conscience, so that does not worry me. I don't believe in man, God, nor the devil. I hate the whole damn human race, including myself. It's like, wow. Yeah, that's an angry ad, but like not sad. Now, at one point, the Kansas delegation

of the Society for the Abolishment of Capital Punishment came to his aid. Yeah, did that. And they actually spoke to Carl and visited him in prison. And they wanted Herbert Hoover, which we just talked about on an episode about JFK assassination theories on crime count down. Yeah, we did.

They wanted Herbert Hoover to make his sentence life in prison, to commute it to life in prison, instead of the death penalty, because they weren't down for that. Now they actually started the paperwork for it, but he was pissed. Really? They did not want this. He didn't agree to it. He said, quote, this you are doing without my consent and against my will.

I choose to die here now by being hung from the neck until I am dead. And he also told them, quote, the only thanks you and your kind will ever get from me for your efforts on my behalf is that I wish you all had one neck and that my hands were around it. Wow. So he was like, don't fuck with my death sentence. I'm stoked for it. And he said he was actually going to send a letter to Herbert Hoover himself. He didn't end up

doing it. He wrote the letter and he showed, I think he showed Henry Lester the letter, like wrote it to him. And in it, he wrote, I believe I am within my constitutional rights when I refuse to accept a pardon or commutation from the death penalty to a sentence of life either in a prison or an insane asylum." Wow. And he said, quote, I look forward to a seat in the electric chair or dance or play dance at the end of a rope, like some folks do for their wedding night. So at this point, he wants to die. And I want to dance from a, like a play dance at the end of a rope.

What? Yeah. And he, so at this point, he really wants to die. And at this point, people are trying to help him not die and that's stressing him out. And he doesn't want that help. He does not want to stay in prison. He's over prison.

His whole life has been prison. So at this point, he just wants out. He got super stressed. And so he attempted suicide, June 20th, 1930, if that date sounds familiar. Yeah. Because he did it on the anniversary of murdering Warnke.

Wow. That's right from his birthday, too, I think. Yeah, I think it's, I think he definitely picked that date for sure. And he did this by cutting a gash on his leg and then he ate a bowl of rotten beans. Ew. What a way. What the, like, why do those two things correlate?

I think the gash was, he was probably trying to hit his femoral artery, but I'm sure he didn't know where that was. So he just kind of gashed open his leg to hope he was gonna bleed out. Do you think he ate the bowl of rotten beans? Just to like, you know, just to add it onto it. Well, in the Ron Beans, like,

Ron Beans can actually like really fuck you up. Like if they're really rotten, they can like really fuck you up. I didn't know that. And the night guard heard him like aggressively vomiting and got him medical attention and he didn't die. I'm sure he was pissed. Sure he was super psyched. So this is when Henry Lesser wrote Carl and was like,

hey, I've had a lot of people look at your writings and I think it's going to get published and like, that's really cool. And I want to share the like, whatever we get from it. Yeah. Like, you deserve part of it. It's your life story. This apparently like pissed Carl off, which is weird because he was like seemingly into this. I think it was because he was in a very bad place at this point, obviously. Yeah, probably. And he wrote back to him angrily telling him, you can keep all the money from it. I don't want any of it. And then he told them there's nothing else you can do to help me. And what

was weird about this letter was he has always addressed him as like Henry or lesser like a friend. Yeah. Basically, he addressed this one to HP lesser screw. And screw is a derogatory term for prison guards back in the day. I'm sure they might still be used. Oh, so like they call him screws. Yeah. And he had never referred to him as a screw. So he turned on him even from the beginning, which he did the exact same thing he did to Murphy. Right. It's insane. So he turned on him. Even from the beginning, which he did the exact same thing. He did to Murphy. Right. It's insane. So September 5th, 1930, at around 6am, Carl was led to the gallows. Mm-hmm.

Cause gallows. When he, cause gallows. And when he got there, the executioner was like, have anything to say. And Carl did. What? Where his last words. Hurry it up, you whos your bastard.

I could have hung a dozen men while you're screwing around. And then he spat in the executioner's face and put his own head into the noose. Unreal. Carl's like an animal. He's a true blue animal. He's not even like a human. By 618 AM, he was pronounced dead at 38 years old.

He was even 40. Wow. No one claimed 40. Wow. Wow. No one claimed him, so he was buried in a poppers grave. And his grave marker is a plank of wood with the number 31614, which is his prisoner number. Oh, that's sad. I don't feel bad, but I do. It's weird. It's weird.

And I don't like it. Well, in 1970, Henry Lesser did get the manuscript published finally, and it's called Killer if the Journal of Immurder. And there's a PDF of it on the website that I'm going to give you guys, like I'll put the website in the show notes for you. There was a film adaptation in 2012 of these manuscripts called Karl Pan's Ram, the Spirit of Hatred Inventions. Yes, just that. new scripts. Oh, called Carl Panzeram, the spirit of hatred and vengeance. Yes, just that. And the place where these are all hosted, like all the letters and everything, are on the Carl Panzeram papers. And it's a website hosted by the San Diego State University. Oh, and all the letters from Lesnar are on there. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff on there about Carl. Yeah,

it's a very interesting website. So I'll post that for sure to him, but that is the crazy ass and just to quickly say they have tried to debunk a lot of what he wrote and they can't Wow, yeah, like people like historians and investigators have tried to go back and be like we're gonna try to debunk this stuff Because it sounds insane and they like they can't do it If I have this stuff because it sounds insane. And they like, they can't do it. So his life story is just insane. Yeah, if anything, they find links to like, cooperate is true.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I say that wrong. How do you really say that? Yeah, cooperate. Coroperate. Coroperate. Yeah.

People yell at me for that long. Coroperate. Coroperate. Yeah. So that's, that's the story of Carl Pan's room. That was a gross mouth noise. And that is discussed, I mean, crazy. What the fuck?

It is discussed. It's discussing you with a truly disgusting story. So I hope everybody hung in there. Yeah. You know, we had to do it. That one was like obviously very, very brutal, but I feel like I got through it because I was so intrigued about Carl's life.

It's, that's the thing. His life, the fact that it's true from all accounts, how open he is about it, how apologetic he is about it, and then the psychology behind it, like the silly part of it that he's so focused on sawdemy, it's like a very weird, it's just everything about it. Yeah, every single thing about it is just very odd. Everything about it is over the top. Yeah. Yeah, it's a crazy story.

It's very like psychology today. It really is. Psychology today. I don't know. Wow, okay, so yeah, if you want to follow us on Instagram, you can do so at morbidpodcast. Hit us up on the Twitter. At a morbidpodcast. Send us a Gmail the Twitter. At a morebidpodcast.

Send us a Gmail. Morebidpodcast.gmail.com. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're not somewhere that you want a world tour of murder and become a pirate, but not like yoho, yoho, pirates. Like for me, like a pirate, like I'm going to kill everybody on a boat and then like, be Carl.

Don't be Carl. Don't do it. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. and add free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself

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