Morbid - Episode 190: Martha Haney

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Whether you're running errands on your daily commute, or even at home, you can enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, the Audible app. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog. This includes the latest bestsellers and new releases. Plus get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, audible originals,

Starting point is 00:00:30 and more. If you've been wanting to form good habits, break bad ones, and improve motivation, atomic habits written and narrated by James Clear is a great lesson. It'll reshape your mindset on progress and success by helping you develop strategies to transform your habits. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days.

Starting point is 00:00:52 That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

Starting point is 00:01:20 So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGi.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Alena. I'm Ash. And this is more Bid. And it's a Lainus Hendrix. It's a Lainus Hendrix. So sit down and take a seat and get comfy. Yeah. Unbutton your pants because I bet you just ate a lot of stuffing. Because while we record this, Thanksgiving hasn't happened yet, but by the time you get it, Thanksgiving has happened. So that's weird.

Starting point is 00:02:14 Thanksgiving was delicious, everybody. Oh my god, Alina's the best cook. I loved all the things that she made. Everything came out perfect. It was a breeze. Oh, nothing lit ablaze. No, my char crudery boards were a hit. They were.

Starting point is 00:02:31 The ones I've been on Pinterest. There you go. As I was looking up curses to my garlic butter rub on my turkey. Just made it the moistest. So I was going to say that I hated that you did a weird hands motion while you said rub, but then I added moist. And then you said moist, and now I quit our podcast. So it's been really everybody fucking nasty.

Starting point is 00:02:55 Ah, I hope, but either way, I hope everybody was safe. I hope everybody's healthy. I hope you all stayed put. Yeah. And stayed in your little pod. Stay in your legs. stayed in your little pod. Stay in your legs. Stay in your legs.

Starting point is 00:03:07 But yeah, everybody stay safe, and I'm glad that you're all here listening because it means you're safe, so good job. Hey. Good job. I don't think there's really any business that we have to catch up on for this episode. Now we just have to get ready for the holiday. The holiday. Christmas.

Starting point is 00:03:24 Or Hanukkah. Or Hanukkah. Or Hanukkah. Or anything that you celebrate in December. Anything. Whatever you're celebrating that's Boxing Day. There you go. Whatever you're celebrating that happens during the winter. You know, let's do it.

Starting point is 00:03:38 The winter solstice. The winter. I think that happens in December, doesn't it? I'm sure. Why not? I'm not real sure. Everybody's gonna be like no ash., doesn't it? Sure. Yeah. I'm not real sure. Everybody's gonna be like, no-ash! I really think it actually does.

Starting point is 00:03:48 But either way, I mean, the next, we're talking about my birthday, right? But that was the holiday we were talking about. Yes. Correct. Okay. I was just making sure. Obviously. The one everybody celebrates that.

Starting point is 00:04:00 The biggest holiday coming up. Alina's birthday is three days after Christmas. Yeah. But don't worry, Alina never gets ripped off. I don't. The only thing that sometimes happens is people hand me my birthday gift with Christmas wrapping paper and I get infuriated and I rage. I think this time, this time that I get you a birthday gift this year, I'm going to do half Christmas wrapping and half regular wrapping just to get you. I'll be very angry.

Starting point is 00:04:22 We're going to get a new PO box and everybody send a Elena Christmas gift. Don't do it. Or, no, no, no, no. Birthday gives wrapped in Christmas wrapping paper. Don't do it. It infuriates you. It infuriator. I want birthday wrapping paper.

Starting point is 00:04:37 What is so hard about, why does everyone else get birthday wrapping paper and I still get Santa Claus? I don't understand that. At least you're getting gifts. Oh, whatever. No, if my birthday was near Christmas, I would be exactly the same. I was gonna say like you would be.

Starting point is 00:04:51 My birthday, June birth, like let me tell you why Gemini's are the last tiny because June birthdays, you get your birthday and then six months later it's Christmas. So you kind of get two birthdays in the year. Well, that's you get, you get to celebrate all year round. It's like six month steets to each thing. That's why June birthday is like the best. Like I'm gonna plan to have my children in June.

Starting point is 00:05:12 Good luck with that, thank you. Yeah, let me know how that goes. I will, I will, I'll let you know. So it's super easy to do. So I think this one, this case that we're gonna do today, I'm gonna begin it by giving you a ton of information on this really good book I read, because I didn't like devoured this book

Starting point is 00:05:33 in a matter of one night. Like sat down and was just like, braah, braah, braah, because it's so good. Wait, I'm sorry, what were you like? braah, braah, braah, braah. And it was so good. So I wish that you could see the like hand motions that a lady uses to describe the things.

Starting point is 00:05:50 It was like, but I used this book and then I used like a few articles and some newspaper clippings that I could find. And the way I found this book, which I'm going to mention in a second, was initially I was looking for like, I was just in, you know, you're in the mood for like an old-timey murder. Oh yeah. You just get in that mood. I'm in the mood for that a lot. You and I have very different versions

Starting point is 00:06:11 of old-timey murders though. Yeah, I know we do and that really hurts a lot. That hurts a lot of people listening too. I just want you to know that. No, I didn't mean the times. I meant like you like a really like fucked up old-timey murder. Oh yeah. I like like an old Hollywood murder.

Starting point is 00:06:25 That's very glamorous. That's a very glitzy murder. Yes, I love it. You're all fun. And I like those ones that you're like, oh, what? What's that I like? Have we here?

Starting point is 00:06:35 And don't worry, this is one of those. Awesome. So initially I was looking, looking, looking, looking. I like to look through like true crime books and see what I can find. And I found this book called A Slayer Wates. He does. The true story of a Michigan double murder.

Starting point is 00:06:49 And it was by Rod Sadler. And I was like, ooh, this looks good, which by the way, I'm gonna cover that case in another episode. But I looked at it and I was like, ooh, this looks good, I might cover this. And then I, it like linked to another one by Rod Sadler, the same author.

Starting point is 00:07:02 And I was like, ooh, what's that? And I saw it and it was called, to hell I must go. and I was like, oh, what's that? And I saw it, and it was called, To Hell I Musco. And I was like, oh, you were like the one. Me too. I was like, oh my God, he wrote about me. You were like on my way, Rob. I was like, wow, Rod.

Starting point is 00:07:15 Oh, Rod, Rod. Sorry. Roda. So I saw this one to Hell I Musco, and I was like, that's it. I gotta cover that one next. Okay. So that's how I got to this one. But I also discovered he's written a third book. Shit!

Starting point is 00:07:28 Called Killing Women, a true friend by Rod Sadler. And it's about a serial. It's amazing. So he has three true crime books. I highly recommend go read them because his writing is great. His research is great. The dude is, he's a retired police officer in MidMichigan for 30 years. Wow. I think he just retired in like 2012. Congratulations, Rod. Yeah, he's amazing.

Starting point is 00:07:52 And he started researching this particular case that I'm going to cover because his great, great grandfather was the sheriff who worked on this case. Oh my goodness. And he initially just went on like ancestry.com and like went to the newspaper at the local library and was like looking up stuff about his grandfather

Starting point is 00:08:09 because he was like, cool, he's a sheriff. I'm a police officer, connection. And then he found this crazy case that he worked on and he just did a crazy deep dive on it and it just opened the soul thing up. All right. So Rod just really killed it and I appreciate his work. Oh, his way to hell Wow, I was like I'm killing it. He was like I'm killing it. So this is this case is called the Michigan Lizzy Board in case.

Starting point is 00:08:33 But some. Okay. So that's what litter, like when I saw that I was like oh okay. I'm in. I'm here. Here I have. That's the only thing Alina has told me so far about the case. It's all I've told you and I was like well shit. Because I wanted to tell you everything. In fact, I literally just like word vomited this all over John last night, and he was like, wow. At the end of it, that's like, he's like, hey, that's why you started a podcast, and you didn't have to tell me all these fucked up things. He was literally like, you just told me the entire story.

Starting point is 00:08:59 I walked by him while he was at his desk, and I didn't have a computer. My hands are anything, and I was like, can I just tell you a really quick thing? And I gave him a little tidbit about it, and then I ended up telling him the entire story. Just put it in a telltale. I must have been standing there for at least 10 minutes, because I gave him like an overview, but he was literally, at the end, he was like, whoa.

Starting point is 00:09:17 He was like, thank you for telling me that quick thing. Wow. All right, so this guy, so Rod Sadler's great, great grandfather, like I said was the sheriff on this case And we're gonna his name was John Jacob. I believe it's pronounced Rell It's R-E-H-L-E. He's of German descent. Okay. I believe it's Rell He calls him JJ throughout the book and a lot of things I found have called him JJ because John Jacob Jiggleheimer Schmitt. So I'm going to call him Sheriff JJ because I like it. It's adorable.

Starting point is 00:09:46 JJ. And it works. So this takes place in Williamston, Michigan. It was on April 23rd, 1897. So good and old timey. Oh yeah. We love it. We love an old timey.

Starting point is 00:09:59 So Sheriff JJ received a telegram from deputy L, deputy J.W. Loranger. This telegram said, because telegrams, this telegrams said that there had been a killing in town in Williamston, and that he needed to come immediately. So he had to get on a train to get there, like it was a whole, it was very 1890s. A very 1890 scene happening here. The vibe was like so 1890s. Yeah. So he gets there. He meets his deputy. The deputy kind of fills him in a little bit on what he's about to walk into. Rupro. But he's like even after hearing about it, I was like, um, they can't be that bad. But you should never say that. So he and the deputy arrived back on the scene, where a huge crowd had gathered and they could smell

Starting point is 00:10:46 the stench of burning flesh permeating the air. Okay. Permiating. Just permeating that air. You're like extra gross to that. A pulporee if you will. That is not pulporee. So this scene was a house located at 320 elevator street.

Starting point is 00:11:04 It was described everywhere I saw it and when you see the picture of it, you will agree. It's described as a shack, like a literal shack. It's like, it almost looks like a one-room house. It's just like a little square. I guess it did have a couple of rooms in it, but they must have been tiny. It's very tiny. And it's like a very simple house. It only had like a few windows, no trees around it, just like open fields. I don't like that. No paint on the house just would.

Starting point is 00:11:31 I hate that. When officers arrived, they noticed that the door was hanging on one hinge. I hate that. The door even more. And they were like, well, that's weird. They also saw what they described as, quote, large gouges and holes cut into the wooden doorframe

Starting point is 00:11:45 as if someone had hacked away at it. Wow, that was literally the perfect timing for that. That's the kids like down stairs. That was a really loud scream. And it was perfect. That was so perfect. That was one of my children. Their new thing is that they've learned that they can scream

Starting point is 00:12:02 like at the top of their lungs. And they're teaching the youngest one to do the same thing. So it makes for a really, really calming household. Yeah, the environment is so chill here every single day. Oh, it's like a good thing I dye my hair gray because it's probably just actually gray at this point. Oh, 100%. But either so so no one's like in trouble, by the way, that was a happy screen.

Starting point is 00:12:24 Yeah, don't worry. But it really set the mood though. So thank you for that one. I know girl vibes. Yeah, love that. So the place was filthy. Yeah, it like, I mean, I think it was described as like, squalor. It was like very dirty. Three rooms to clean. I think it was just like, real dirty. Just like, you know, there was, there's like, they said there was always plates, like,

Starting point is 00:12:56 dirty plates stacked everywhere. Very little furniture, very little things in there. Clearly, these people did not have a lot of money at all. Right. Now, as soon as they went inside, they noticed a ton of blood pooled on the ground, as soon as they walked through the door. Mm-hmm. They also noticed that there was a ton of clumps of gray hair stuck in it. Shot up. And in the floor, where deep gouges, like a sharp instrument, had struck the floor several times. What the fuck?

Starting point is 00:13:26 Covered in blood. The couch was soaked. There were things overturned and thrown about. Like they saw a picture frame that was shattered and covered in blood. The picture frame had no photo in it. Oh, it was all like that. There was also a huge blood trail leading from the front door to the back of the home where someone had clearly been dragged.

Starting point is 00:13:44 Good. Blood had soaked through the carpet. It the back of the home where someone had clearly been dragged. Good. Blood had soaked through the carpet, it splattered on the walls. They said it was the worst thing they had ever even imagined. Yeah, in the 1890s. Oh, yeah. Now, as they entered the kitchen, which was in the back of the house, they were met with a corpse on the floor. Okay.

Starting point is 00:14:02 Now, this corpse was barely able to be seen as a human upon first glance because it had been burned and the clothing had been melted into it. They could really only see like hands. They came up here. There were slippers melted into the feet. Like, clearly slippers. Oh, so that, that's not an old, yes.

Starting point is 00:14:21 Although I'm wearing slippers at this very moment. Well, let's not just assume, I'm wearing slippers at this very moment. Well let's not just assume, you know, mix it up. I saw you in the mirror. But it was clear that the killer, because they could smell caracene. It was clear that the killer had used caracene to light the fire. And then it had been doused several times with water to put it out. Oh.

Starting point is 00:14:41 Oh, it was missing its head too. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, okay. That was like, they were like, oh, well, they was missing its head too. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that was like when they were like, oh, well, that doesn't have a head. Good. If they noticed that there was water all over the floor, like all the buckets of water had been poured onto this floor,

Starting point is 00:14:56 and they were like, what the fuck is going on? So this person started a fire in the house and then put outside fire? Well, we'll find out what exactly happened. Cause that's wild. But yeah, so then, so they're Well, we'll find out what exactly happened. Because that's wild. But yeah, so they're like, wow, okay, that's alarming. What's going on here? So they looked at the table to the left of them,

Starting point is 00:15:13 and there were dishes all over with rotting and disgusting food all over it. I don't like that at all. Then sitting on a platter in the middle of the table as a centerpiece with a fork and a knife set out next to it, was the severed head of an old woman. Eyes wide open, surrounded by what looked like leaders of blood. She had been set to look at one seat at the table.

Starting point is 00:15:37 Her hair was completely red with blood. Yep. Like mouth open, eyes open, just staring blankly into one of the seats at the table. What? Yep. Like mouth open, eyes open, just staring blankly into one of the seats at the table. What? What now? Like you? Yeah. Fuck that. Fuck a whole bunch of that. That's a bold centerpiece. I mean, it's a bold move. You won't see that on Pinterest. I'm willing to bet.

Starting point is 00:16:00 You'll find curses on Pinterest, but you will not find this. I literally want to type in like severed heads that are basically really fun. Honestly, probably find something on there. I don't want to. Because I should be internet. But this old woman was, she was clearly old. Her face was covered in bruises and lacerations.

Starting point is 00:16:16 Oh, no. Part of her head had been like caved in. Oh my god. She had clearly been beaten before being fatally brutalized in the head. We got a chit or slipper song. Yeah, so officers were wretching. They were like puking, drying, not just at the sight of all this,

Starting point is 00:16:33 because the sight enough, but the smell of the blood, the amount of blood in there, because blood smells. Yeah, it has a lot of it. And that much blood. Ooh. And then on top of that, the blood, the carousine smell, burning flesh, and then also it's just not a clean house to begin with.

Starting point is 00:16:51 So it already has like a... The amount of smells that are hitting these poor people walking into this house must have been outrageous. Because there's rotting food, too, on the place. Exactly. So it's just every terrible smell you could ever think of. Do you know what? I think a stinky house is number one on my list of fears.

Starting point is 00:17:08 There you go. No one wants a smelly house. No. I mean, you have kids, you're gonna have certain smells in your house, like his kids pee and poop and like, I'm gonna teach you generally. We're gonna get an outhouse at my place. We thought we had just got rid of things.

Starting point is 00:17:22 You know, like, sack note. We just got rid of the rug in our playroom for the kids because we were like, did one of you pee on this rug or did Bailey pee? Cause Bailey's getting really old and she's starting to have a little trouble with that. So we're like, we'll just get rid of the rug. We'll get it on.

Starting point is 00:17:35 Cause it was smelling like pee. And then we figured out that it was paradeuse that they had smelled, smelled, spilled, spilled. And it smelled like pee. It does. So warning to parents out there, paradeuse smells a lot like pee. It does so warning to two parents out there Paradeeux smells a lot like pee. Yeah, just like don't fuck with that. But yeah, either way kid smells severed head so They went into the bedroom because there's like two little little bedrooms in this house like somehow

Starting point is 00:17:59 I don't know how they were when you look at it. You're like how that's making my little tiny bedrooms They're probably like little pantries, I assume they're probably that size. They saw that the bedroom was also soaked in water and that the window had been broken in. And that, yeah, and they saw, so they were like, what the hell happened here? Right.

Starting point is 00:18:18 Did someone come in and do this? What happened? So once they went outside to get what, because they were like, what, we need to find the murder weapon here. Like, who did this and what do they do it with? Or even like, is there tracks leading up to the window? And they, well, they noticed that they saw another blood trail leading to the back set

Starting point is 00:18:34 of stairs. And when they looked under the stairs, ton more blood under there. And they found a completely gore saturated axe. So the murder weapon, saturated and Gore. Now, the woman in question here that had her head separated from her body in a most aggressive way was Mariah Haney. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:18:57 Mariah Haney was somewhere between 80 and 85 years old. Oh my God, and that's how she went. Would you back then? She was like 112. She would have been on the smuckers jar on the today show. Oh my God. She was so old. Like she was so old.

Starting point is 00:19:13 And what's her advice for us? Her advice for us would be don't move in with your daughter in law. That's what it would be. Oh my God, daughter-in-law. Okay. That's just a little hint for what's going on. Now, some sources I see, she's like 80, 82,

Starting point is 00:19:28 and then some, but I will go with Rod Sadler because I trust Rod. He wrote three books. I mean, I just trust him. And he says 85 years old, so I go with 85. So Mariah never got along with her daughter-in-law. You know, it's rare. It's rare.

Starting point is 00:19:43 It really is. I feel very lucky that I get along with my mother-in-law. You know, it's rare. It's rare. It really is. I feel very lucky that I get along with my mother-in-law. I'm pretty lucky with Annie's mom. Yeah. Just technically not my mother-in-law yet, but it's rare. It is. It is. It is.

Starting point is 00:19:54 It is. So they didn't get along, but they like really didn't get along. They did not like each other at all. Her daughter-in-law's name was Martha. And she had actually tried to convince her son Alfie. His name was Alfred Haney. Alfie is my family.

Starting point is 00:20:07 We almost named Lux Alfie. She had tried to convince Alfie not to marry Martha. Wow. But he had gone ahead and done it. She didn't trust her. She thought she was very odd, which, you know, she kind of was. But she never lived in the house. There was a little bit of a reason for it.

Starting point is 00:20:24 And the two of them with fight and bicker constantly. Alfie said they never, he never saw them hit each other but he would see or hear them like push each other. Yeah. And so he was like, you know, I'd have to break that up a little bit sometimes I would have got really heated but like I never saw them actually strike each other. And you're saying like push each other like verbally.

Starting point is 00:20:43 Yeah, and I think they would do a little shove. Oh, okay. Nothing crazy though. They never shoved each other down or anything. It was like a little push here and there. And that's when he would break things up. Often times I guess it would happen when he would go to work for the day

Starting point is 00:20:57 because neighbors would hear. Like all the neighbors would hear. They lived next door to a mill factory. And I guess all the factory workers out there were like, oh, they lived next door to like a mill factory. And I guess all the factory workers out there were like, oh, we were very used to hearing the two of them screaming at each other. It's like your work time entertainment. Yeah, they're just like whatever. Now, this, so knowing all this and knowing that Martha Haney ended up being right on scene,

Starting point is 00:21:21 which we'll get into, Martha Haney was arrested for the murder of Mariah. Believable. So, she was arrested at the scene of the crime, and they found her in the backyard, digging with her hands in the backyard. That's no good. And just like mumbling to herself, when they walked up to her in the backyard,

Starting point is 00:21:40 they were like, hey, what should do in Martha? And she was like, I just killed my mother-in-law in there. Oh, okay. And they were like, cool, cool, all right. They were like, Hey, what you do in Marcent? She was like, I just killed my mother and mom there. Oh, okay. And they were like, cool, cool. All right. They were like, yeah, we saw that. They were like, we, yep, we definitely saw that. Smelt it too. So they, they got her, they arrested her. Again, she was fully, she, she was very quiet. The only thing she would say is like, yes, I did it. Wow. And they were like, really? And she was like, I cut her head off. And they were like, yes, we, we know. They were

Starting point is 00:22:04 like, all right. So they brought her directly off and they were like yes We know they were like all right So they brought her directly into the village lockup, which is like where you would go before jail She was described as acting very peculiar her parents at the time was very emaciated. She was like a waf Very small she had like dark hair dark eyes and they said she had like a very sunken and Base like she's a little scary. She was a little scary. The village, so they ended up going, she's being held at this lockup.

Starting point is 00:22:31 Now they have to talk to her. And she's acting a little off. And they're like, you go do it. No, you go to it. And they believe you go in there. I talked to her yesterday. I don't want to talk. So the village health officer,

Starting point is 00:22:43 Dr. Frank Sumway, was called in to evaluate her mental state because immediately anybody who didn't know her would look at her and be like, something's off here. Like, let's go take a look. People who knew her in the village were like, oh yeah, like something's wrong with her. Like she's definitely not sane.

Starting point is 00:23:00 Okay. So this was already like, okay, we gotta see what's going on here. So Dr. Frank Sumway had an incredible mustache. I feel it's important We're gonna move right along from had an incredible mustache and went in to talk to my Fuss and he was that's literally all I have to say about that. I love you so much You just like you get me. Yeah, you did he had an incredible So who doesn't trust that?

Starting point is 00:23:27 So when he was told who the killer was suspected to be, he said he wasn't very surprised. Like he was like, oh, I know her. Martha Haney. All right. And he was like, that's okay. He was like, I was going for this day. He said, you know, I've seen her around town.

Starting point is 00:23:42 And he said, he was, every time he saw her around town, he's a doctor after all. He was like, I was very concerned about her mental state. And he was like, but know, I've seen her around town and he said he was every time he saw around town. He's a doctor after all He was like I was very concerned about her mental state and he was like, but obviously no one's gonna walk up to someone Be like, hey, are you insane? Right. Do you want me to talk to you? Right. So she would just be like whatever Now the thing is She had actually been scheduled having appointment with him. Oh, yeah, morning that that they found the murder. The morning of the murder. Mm hmm. But she hadn't showed up.

Starting point is 00:24:08 And I've been in a great time for that. I'm saying and the person who had made the appointment was Alfie. Oh, no. And we're going to get into that whole thing because Alfie's going to explain what happened there, but she never showed up. So he and another doctor, Dr. Shaw, went into the lock up to examine her. She really didn't want to talk to anybody. She would not talk to the police.

Starting point is 00:24:29 I wouldn't even look at them, nothing. She would kind of answer the doctors, but only really nodding at them and stuff. That is really spooky. Yeah. And she was sitting on the floor. They said wrapped in a blanket. That's even spooky. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:43 And they asked her what happened, and she said, I killed my mother-in-law. We know, but why? And they were like, after saying that she just stared at them. Oh, no, no, no, no. Which to me, when I read it in the book, I was like, oh god. That's terrifying. They then said, you know, what exactly happened? And she just stayed quiet.

Starting point is 00:25:00 So they were like, all right, she's not going to talk. Like, they tried a few times. Yeah. She wasn't going to give them anything else. They kind of saw what they needed to see. As they were leaving, she was like, wait. No. And they were like, what?

Starting point is 00:25:12 We're done here today, Martha. Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show,

Starting point is 00:25:28 everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse.

Starting point is 00:25:48 Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, my nose. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance, episode by episode. Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.

Starting point is 00:26:25 In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children

Starting point is 00:26:56 and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. And she was like, all right, here's the deal. You know, we argued something about a photo and which I'm going to get into the details later. I do that. I was going to come back. Yeah, something about a photo that she had put in a frame that belonged to Mariah. Okay she left out the part, like a big part of this, but she's like, yep, I put this photo in the frame. She was pissed when she saw this and she hit me. So she said, we got really angry.

Starting point is 00:27:35 I was really angry at her for that. We started screaming. The workers at the mill also said they heard this whole fight happened. At one point, some of the workers at the mill said that they heard Martha's store, or they saw Martha's store out of the house and like just get angry on the front lawn by herself. And they were like, oh, what's happening?

Starting point is 00:27:55 And then she tried to go back in and Mariah had locked the front door. Oh, that will infuriate you. This is what really pissed her off. Like if you're gonna snap, that's when it's gonna happen. And so they were like, okay, well, you know, this sounds like this was a bigger fight than like just you put a picture in a frame. Like what? Yeah, what was the picture about? So she was like, well, the photo was like, you know, the photo was her, Mariah,

Starting point is 00:28:22 the victim, her late husband was in the photo frame. And what Martha did was take the photo was her Mariah, the victim, her late husband, was in the photo frame. And what Martha did was take the photo out and put a photo in of her three kids. Yeah. And what we're going to find out later is that she doesn't have those three kids anymore. And no one's quite sure exactly where they went. Shut the fuck up. So that's weird. That she suddenly, in the middle of the the day just took this photo of her late

Starting point is 00:28:45 husband out of the photo and put her kids so that no one knows really what happened. Martha's kids. Yeah, okay. We're gonna get into that. Don't worry, we're gonna talk about Martha. We are. We are. And so this Mariah came back and because Mariah at eight, whatever she was 80 to 85 years

Starting point is 00:29:01 old, was doing chores outside when this happened. Walked in, saw that she had done that and was like, what the fuck? Where's the picture of her husband's name is John? Yeah, and this is my fucking house. And she was like, where's the picture of John? Yeah. Where is that? And she wouldn't answer her. And she was like, where's the picture? Like, she was pissed about the picture. I would be mad too. So what happened was Mariah, like like hit her on the back of the, on her back. Yeah, like they just hit her like answer me.

Starting point is 00:29:29 Yeah, and then I'll hellburg loose. So those workers that had seen Martha like storm out of the house and try to get back in, they were like shit was going down. Like but they were like, but they fight all the time. So we just thought they were having this like, we decided to take lunch and check it out. Yeah, and honestly they were like, we were just watching it for a while.

Starting point is 00:29:46 And then they said they saw Martha looking around for something in the backyard. And Axe. But she did it a long time, so they just got where like whatever they'll figure it out. Yeah. And they just stopped paying attention. Well, she was looking for the axe.

Starting point is 00:29:58 She got the axe. She ended up walking up to the front of the house and destroying the front door with the house. So this poor 85 year old woman is in this house watching her daughter-in-law Ask herself like Jack Nicholson in the shining through the front door Here is Martha. Here's Martha. Oh my god. It's like holy shit And that's why when the police came here that whole thing was hanging on one hinge Because my gosh has busted her way through. Wild in. It's insane.

Starting point is 00:30:26 You don't expect a lady named Martha to be out here while you don't. You really don't. You don't expect that. And she's tiny. She's like the thin thing and so is Mariah. Those ones are already the hardest. But what she did was they think she first hit Mariah with the blunt end of the axe to the face.

Starting point is 00:30:42 And that knocked her down and then hit her with the sharp end to the face and knocked her out. Then she just, by her own admission, stomped on her as hard as she could with her own feet. That is always so good. She said she broke ribs, she broke anything she could, she just kept stomping. And she's probably still alive. In her own words, oh yeah, and she said that she could hear her like, gurgling and breathing

Starting point is 00:31:04 through most of the stops. In her own words, oh yeah, and she said that she could hear her like gurgling and breathing Oh, in her own words, she said I don't know I killed her anyway And then I got on her with my feet and jumped on her as hard as I could yes, I did my mother told me to kill her Oh, no, I feel like your mom is dead and you shouldn't be talking to her. Hey Nailed it. I knew it interesting Because Susan Pierce, her mother, had died seven years prior in Ionia. So that's weird that she's dead, and she's like, my mom told me to do that.

Starting point is 00:31:33 Yeah, that's what the bike had. And mom didn't know your mother-in-law because you've only been married for like three or four years. So what? Right. So this struck them as interesting. So they're like, OK, that's interesting. So they said, OK, cool. Does she talk to you a lot So they're like, okay, that's interesting.

Starting point is 00:31:45 So they said, okay, cool. Does she talk to you a lot? And she said, Oh, yeah, she talks to me all the time. I found it literally all the time. Yeah, all the time. And then she said, you know, she was speaking to her a lot more lately. And she was telling her to kill the old woman, of course. And she said that she was talking to her while she was committing the murder. In fact, and and encouraging her to do it. Wow. Yeah. So that's the support of mom, I guess.

Starting point is 00:32:09 That's really sad. And it's horrible. And I guess she was telling her, what she was saying was that her mom kept telling her, you need to kill that old woman before she kills you. Oh. So she was like, oh shit. So she probably had like paranoid schizophrenia.

Starting point is 00:32:22 Yeah, I think that's actually what, everything that I've read says that today, she would likely be diagnosed with that. I am not diagnosing her. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just guessing. I'm not saying anything about that. So that's, I have no idea what's wrong. Yeah, who knows?

Starting point is 00:32:36 Maybe she was faking the soul thing. We have no idea. I'm literally no idea. This was 1897, so I have no idea. But it's, everything I have seen has said they would say today She was probably being she would be diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. Yeah, but yeah So so then she continued on telling them the next parts that happened Mm-hmm. She was like, let me just lay this all out for you

Starting point is 00:32:59 I love that they were gonna leave and she was like, you know what? She was like let me just tell you everything So then she said another hit in the head to Mariah opened up her skull. That was the reason there was gray hair all over the floor when he first walked in and those gouges on the floor. She literally embedded the ax into the floor. So they were like, oh, fun. And they were like, what happened next, Martha? And she said, quote, I said, hold on now.

Starting point is 00:33:26 And I turned her over and I killed her. And she did not kill me. Nope. She did not. You're here right now telling us. Correct. Accurate. Accurate information. All right. True. So she said two more blows severed her head from her neck pretty cleanly as she lie there on the floor. Then she picked up the head by the hair and placed it on a platter on the table. She also intentionally set Mariah's head to face Alfie's place at the table. That's weird. Because it was supposed to be a gift to him. Oh, so she's mounted Alfie too.

Starting point is 00:33:57 Which, yeah, by all accounts, not really sure why. Okay. They didn't really, there was no indication that they were, you know, he was violent or anything. Well, with people that hate their mother and laws, I feel like that's a thing. Well, and I think this is also just definitely just mental illness. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think this is just all that. Yeah. She said that she was then worried about what to do with the rest of the body because, oh, I have a head on a plate. What do I do with the rest of it? Because she was like, I can't bring it outside, because the mill workers are gonna see me dragging it outside.

Starting point is 00:34:27 So she did have the fourth thought to think that. So she was like, all right, I'll just pour care scene from the oil lamp in the other room on her and light her on fire. Now, according to Hell My I Must Go, she used coals from the stove in a heated frying pan and put them between my eyes' legs and let it smolder and create a fire.

Starting point is 00:34:47 What? Which I thought was interesting, because when I first heard she lit the body on fire, I was like, how though? Like, yeah. How did she do that? But that's crazy. She just lit coals in a heated pan and put it under her, like, between her legs and then it just smoldered and caught fire. This is really fucked up to say, but she literally made her like, oh, like a heat, I forgot the word. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:10 She did. She did that. What are those stoves called that like people in Maine have in their houses? Like a, like a cold burning stove? No, it's a different thing. I don't know. You wouldn't get it.

Starting point is 00:35:21 She's a tomato one of those stoves. She feed her. I forget. Unfortunately. Now, so they were like, okay, thanks Martha. And when they left, they were like, yeah, I'm pretty sure she's not saying. I think we can both say that.

Starting point is 00:35:34 So let's talk about Martha Haney, who she is as a person. I thought we just did. No, we're gonna talk about her before this. So Martha Haney was somewhere in the middle of seven children. Her siblings were Richard, William, George, Esther, Florence, and Adi, was somewhere in the middle of seven children. Her siblings were Richard, William, George, Esther, Florence, and Adi, who died at the age of 12. Oh, those are all really cute names. Now, by all accounts, she had like a terrible childhood, but there's no information about it. We don't know why it was terrible. You don't know how terrible

Starting point is 00:36:00 just it was terrible. Okay. So it's like, okay, in fact, her brother Richard, who comes up later, terrible just it was terrible. Okay, so it's like okay. In fact her brother Richard who comes up later had said you know that he knew what she had endured her whole life and childhood and like was really sad that this is who she had become. Okay, but like nothing else in that. Now when she was only 16 years old she married a 21 year old, a man named John Woodard in 1884 they had three children. He left but no one could tell where the children went. That he didn't take them. He did not take those children. She had told Alfie that the two older children

Starting point is 00:36:34 were living in Ohio and Pennsylvania, having been given up for adoption. But the youngest was the real mystery. Alfie said that the story he heard and a lot of other people heard from her own parents was that she left one day with the child who was under the age of two and was her youngest and she returned a couple of days later without that child. Okay, so she killed that child. And she said she gave it away. Okay, so

Starting point is 00:37:00 people believed she may have killed that child. Me too. Well People believed she may have killed that child. Me too. Well, newspaper article that in May 6, 1897, the Ingram County News said, quote, any suspicion that Martha Haney ever currently disposed of her child while living in Wheatfield several years ago is all wrong. Oh. She did the best of it and placed it in the charge of Reverend W.S. Sly of Lansing, the gentleman who has done such an excellent

Starting point is 00:37:25 work with homeless children. So she did give the BBOA. Now looking it up, I did find that this guy, and Rod Sadler also talks about it in his book, that this guy actually did this. Wow. He would take children, he was like a really good person. Great. So he apparently did confirm that her and her sister Florence had gone to him to give her son away. His name was George and he was only 10 months old. Oh my goodness. And he ran this orphanage. He had taken her. So he did confirm that that child

Starting point is 00:37:59 was given away. Okay. So the other two children, she claims the same happened, but nobody can really confirm that. But, you know, who knows? If she gave this one away, imagine she gave it to her for adoption. I mean, good on her, because she clearly shouldn't be raising children in this kind of state that she was in. Do you think she realized that? And that's why she gave them away? I wonder if she did. If she had some form of like self realization. She had some kind of self realization that like I cannot provide by myself for these children like the emotional and stability that I need to.

Starting point is 00:38:32 So like if she did do that, good on her. Yeah. So and her sister Florence did say she was happy she was doing it because she said the same thing. She was not gonna be able to properly care for these children. Well, that's good. So Alfie and Martha had gotten married in 1894. They had originally lived together with his mother Mariah and her husband John in Mariah and John's farmhouse.

Starting point is 00:38:53 Okay. John was a civil war vet, but he had passed away like years earlier. And they were having trouble keeping up with the farm that their parents had originally run. So they left that place and that's when Alfie got this tiny little house for him, Mariah and Martha. But it was Alfie who was the one who found his dead mother that day. Oh, no. He was the one who had called police. Now I feel so bad for Alfie.

Starting point is 00:39:22 Me too. I really, because he lost two people. So, yeah. So obviously they were like, because he found the mother, we got to bad for Elf. Me too. I really do. Because he lost two people. So, yeah. So obviously, they were like, because he found the mother, we got to go talk to him. So they found him at a pub. He was drinking for his friends.

Starting point is 00:39:31 Of course they were. His friends were trying to like cheer him up. Yeah. He was just like sitting there crying. Because again, he's losing his wife and his mother. Right. So when investigators picked him up at the pub, he was an absolute mess. They said he was so upset.

Starting point is 00:39:44 But they asked him, you know, you got to give us a little background here Like how is your marriage? You got to tell us what's going on now? Alfie was a laborer. They did not have a lot of money because Martha stayed home And they would he would basically just take work whenever he could like road work like hard labor or anything And he just would take it wherever he can get it. They often were given help from the rest of the community, I guess. Like the village would help them out. That's nice. Alfie told investigators that their home was, quote, cheerless. Which is like the saddest thing I've heard. That's what I'm picturing. Yeah. And he said Martha was, you know, Martha

Starting point is 00:40:20 was sick a lot and she was very awful lot and it was getting worse and worse recently. Her and Mariah just hated each other and it seemed like they were always fighting. Mariah, Martha wouldn't sleep in bed with him, it was just very weird. And the emotional states in that house were always shifting crazily. So he said he often heard Martha speaking to people that weren't there. And this started right after they got married. Oh gosh. And she also like right after they got married. Oh gosh.

Starting point is 00:40:46 And she also had a very scary temper. Oh, okay. And it would like snap into just boom. With like no. And explosive. Yeah. Yeah, no warning. And in the three weeks leading up to the murder, he said that the talking to voices who

Starting point is 00:40:59 weren't there, thing was happening every single day. Like way more. And she was losing her shit a lot, like could not. And he said it got to the point where he, like within those last few weeks, he said he was really scared to leave his mom alone with her while he went to work. I know, but it's like, what is he gonna do?

Starting point is 00:41:15 And he would say like, it was that, or he's like, I literally couldn't miss a day's wages. I had to make money, or we wouldn't be able to sleep in this house or eat or anything. Right. So he then explained how they both had come to the decision eventually to have her see Dr. Shumway. He had the first doctor that had walked in there and was like, oh, hi.

Starting point is 00:41:35 So what had happened was Alfie was working on a road job. And this was like, I think the day before the murder. And he had seen the doctor walking by and he was like, you know what, I got to ask him, which I'm like good for healthy. Not a good husband. So he got himself together and he like walked up to him and he was like, can I just like ask you about my wife? And he was like, can you talk to my wife?

Starting point is 00:41:56 So the doctor agreed. He was like, yeah, bring her in, I'll talk to her. So he had gone home, he had told his mom about it and his mom was like, she's not gonna agree to that. Like she's gonna lose her shit, like, but Godspeed. And she was right because when he brought it up to Marth, that she lost her shit. Somehow he had managed to convince her to agree, to go to the appointment.

Starting point is 00:42:16 And it, you know, he was like, all right, things are going to get better. This is going to be fine. But then she started blaming Mariah and saying Mariah was the one who was forcing her to go to get like this doctor She was the one who thought she was crazy and now if he was like no, she has nothing to do with this I'm the one who wants you to do this right. She was like no, it's Mariah So she immediately had it in her head past this but then the next morning Alphie wakes up to go to work or not to go to work to go to the appointment and he was, I think this was a Friday and he was like I woke up and saw her and she

Starting point is 00:42:49 was smiling and he was like ingenuantly smiling. I even, and he was like I had not seen her smile in forever. And he was like ominous. Well, and he was like I first I was like what is happening and she was like I feel so much better than I'd felt in weeks. Oh wow. And you know maybe, I feel so much better than I felt in weeks and weeks. Oh, wow. And you know, maybe it was just the idea of going to the doctor that made me like, you know, like snap out of it. And like, you know, she was like,

Starting point is 00:43:12 I do want to talk to the doctor, but why don't we do it tomorrow morning? Wow. Yeah. And he was like, and she kind of did like, you know, you don't want to miss out on money in tomorrow's Saturday. So, and he was like, you know what? He was willing to miss a day's pay. Wow. And he was like, you know what?

Starting point is 00:43:25 He was willing to miss a day's pay for it, but he was like, why do it when she's willing to go tomorrow? Yeah. We can always go tomorrow. And he obviously wasn't thinking that anything this bad was going to happen. No, of course not. And he agreed.

Starting point is 00:43:37 He was like, all right, I'll take her on a Saturday. Yeah. I'll take her tomorrow morning. It's fine. I feel so bad for this guy. I know. He said he came home from lunch from work that day. He was like, he always does.

Starting point is 00:43:50 And he was like, when I walked up to the house, I noticed this like terrible odor coming from the house. And he's like in the doors off the hinges, and I can see smoke. He's probably like, what the hell is going on? And he was like, holy shit. So he was like, oh my god, the house is on fire. So he runs in there. And he's like, holy shit. So he was like, oh my god, the house is on fire. So he runs in there.

Starting point is 00:44:05 And he's like, I gotta get my mom out and my wife out. Like I gotta help everybody. He runs in and immediately sees his mother's head staring at him for the cream platter. So neighbors said that in the people at the mill said they heard his blood curdling scream. Can you imagine? And they saw him run out of the house

Starting point is 00:44:24 because he was running straight for the sheriff's office. He was like, fuck. And they said he saw, they saw him running straight out. So his neighbors saw the smoke coming from the house and they saw him run out of the house. So they were like, holy shit, the house is on fire. We have to help. So they were like, all right, well, he's going to get maybe the fire department will help and try to stop this. Oh my God. So, they used a pump because it was a water pump. That's all they got to. They got to fill buckets of water and throw them through the kitchen window, which is why the kitchen was covered in water.

Starting point is 00:44:55 They did this. They kept doing it over and over. This is one another. And I guess they'd also like smash the window in the bed, try to get it and poured it in there because they didn't know where the source was. Where the source was. So that's why there was water all in there too. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:45:08 So this is when another neighbor who had actually worked at the mill next door, walked over and was like, what the fuck is going on? So he grabs a bucket of water and he runs into the house. Because he's like, you know what? I'll try to get in and from the inside. So he runs right to the lump. He saw smoldering on the kitchen floor

Starting point is 00:45:28 and he couldn't tell what it was, but it was the, he could see that it was where the most things were coming from. So he just dumped the water bucket on it. Oh my God. He then realized he was looking at a smoking to capitated body. Yeah, that'll fuck you up.

Starting point is 00:45:41 So that's when he himself looked up and saw Mariah's head on the table. And that'll fuck you up And he said later that he looked over and saw Martha just calmly walk out of the bedroom with just underwear on What and she looked at him and then was like and just like walked back into the bedroom put on a dress and came back out Like she was like fucking hey like why you in my house? I'm in my underwear. What?

Starting point is 00:46:06 And what had happened? She was Martha had taken off the dress. She had worn when she killed Martha. And put it on top of Mariah and lit it on fire. Oh, that is very Lizzy Boardman. Which is very like, there's certain parts of this where I'm like, there was a little bit of coming in here. Like that's not totally like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:22 I wonder if she, you know, you don't know. You just don't know you could have said I've been hearing all these voices she could there's no proof that says that she was you know you just don't know she wasn't diagnosed you don't know so we don't know so she don't know we don't know so she put on a dress she comes back out she lays on the couch for a second and meanwhile this guy so this guy's name was John Robinson I believe okay, and he's just sitting there watching her like holding this empty bucket of water standing in this kitchen with a Decapitated old woman's head and he decapitated body on the floor that he just poured water on and he's like

Starting point is 00:47:00 And she lays on the couch and then she just gets up and starts peeling the wallpaper off the wall. Stop. So he was like, I'm gonna go. So he was so scary. So he goes running out the back and he's like, what the fuck? And she followed him out the back door and then starts kneeling down in the backyard and is digging the dirt away hands. And people think that she was digging to put the body in there.

Starting point is 00:47:27 What the fuck? Now by this time, the mill workers and people around the village are starting to crowd around this house because it's a small little like hamlet kind of thing. So it's like a bunch of people coming, everyone's like, what the fuck is going on? They're hearing screaming, they're hearing nuts,

Starting point is 00:47:43 like crazy stuff. So meanwhile, Elfee had reached the deputy sheriff, deputy Lauren Jer, and had brought which we talked about in the first part, and brought him back to the house. Okay. And this is Rod's great, great grandfather. This is not the great, great grandfather. This is the deputy sheriff. Oh. This sheriff, Rell JJ is the one that's his, got you, got you, my father. So John Robinson, the guy who had seen all this happen and is the only one who has been inside the house besides Alfie. He had Lauren Jer come to the backyard and he was like,

Starting point is 00:48:15 there she be, here she is. Martha's still digging with her hands in the ground and they said she looked completely blankly at them when they asked her what was going on. And then she just coldly said, I killed my mother-in-law. Oh my God. And they were like, you did? And she was like, I cut off her head. It's in there. And I also decided that I was gonna change the wallpaper.

Starting point is 00:48:33 So this is when she was restrained and brought to the lockup where the doctors spoke to her. This is when Lauren's your went inside the house. He saw everything inside, immediately was wretching and gagging like the rest of the officers later. He had some dudes come to like like stand guard at the house to not let anybody in while he followed her to the lock up. Smart for 1897. They were kind of on it. Yeah. We'll give it to them. It gets weird, but like they were always does. It always

Starting point is 00:49:00 does. So now that Martha was in custody and they had been interviewed, Alfie had been smoking too about the day's events, there was now the next thing to be done, which is the corner's inquest. Basically, a corner's inquest is done to prove that a crime has been committed. I think you just have to hold up the head and you could be like, yeah, crime. I mean, like a crime was indeed. Guilty of here. Crime. What is insane is that the inquest had to take place in the house. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 00:49:32 So according to Hell I Must Go, the law says, quote, and there, in view of the dead body, shall the justice of the peace administer the oath. Wow. So they had to drag six men that they chose or who had to volunteer. They had to be law abiding men like as jurors. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:52 They just had to go like find them too. And they had to drag them into this crime scene, take this oath and then determine whether a crime happens. Yes. Like holy shit. I feel like can we just skip the oath? Yes. What if one of them was

Starting point is 00:50:06 like, you know, I'm not sure. I'm just not convinced that this was criminal. Sometimes a head will just decide it's done hanging out with its given body and it'll just dip. I've seen it happen. And prove that it didn't happen. Tell me. Prove to me. And they could be like, well the house is entirely in there's blood everywhere. And when I was saying this in my mind, I was like, yeah, like that's silly. And then I was like, but honestly, house is on fire, and there's blood everywhere. And when I was saying this, and I was like, yeah, like that's silly. And then I was like, but honestly, in an era where crazy shit was happening all the time and like believed all the time,

Starting point is 00:50:31 that's really not that far from it. You could have locked in the house and just been like, which craft? Because honestly, and I was like, you know what, people thought back then, that's something called ring turning was like real. And let me tell you a quick little side because I started looking up like 1890s things, holy shit. What is ring turning? So ring turning was from the 1890s and it was

Starting point is 00:50:49 that a woman would meet men with rings on their fingers and when they did that they would turn the ring a couple of times. They would do this 24 times in a row with 24 different ring wearing fellas and then immediately they would have to find a man or a woman with a wedding ring on. You would turn their ring two times and the next man you shake hands with That's your husband So all they have to do is find 24 men and then turn their rings around and then you have to Then you have to find a married man or woman turn their wedding ring twice and then the next man you shake hands with That's your husband. So basically you just have to turn 25 rings. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Simple. Good to know.

Starting point is 00:51:28 But people believed that then. So honestly it's not shocking to me that they had to have this very formal coroner's inquest in the crime scene to be like, yes. A crime committed. Life was weird. Life was real strange for them. So either way, back to the task at hand. So the six jurors were just six law-biting dudes that they just ran downtown and grabbed out of a pub somewhere. I'm surprised they didn't just go to the mill. How awesome would the happy life be? Like you would die to be one of the people. Wanna come down to the most gnarly crime scene ever

Starting point is 00:52:00 fathomed and just tell me whether it's a crime scene or not? You would be that bitch in the corner of a bar like sipping on a brew and you'd be like, oh my god, I want to go so bad. I'd be like me. Hold my beer. Overclaiming. Pick me and they'd be like, you're a woman. You're a woman and you've shown your ankles arrest her.

Starting point is 00:52:17 You'd be like, what are you doing in a pub? Get the fuck out. Go have a baby. No, I would be on that. I would go get a fake majestic mustache and be I'd be like me on the wild design. Bring me there. So the law for this says, quote, the jury upon inspection of the dead body, and after hearing the testimony of the witnesses and making all needful inquiries, shall draw upon and deliver

Starting point is 00:52:39 to the justice of the priests, their inquisition under their hands in which they shall find and certify when, in what manner, and by what means, the deceased came to his death, and his name, if known, together with all the material circumstances attending his death, and if it appeared that he came to his death by unlawful means, the jurors shall forthwith, state, with the guilty, either as principal or accessory, or were in any manner the cause of his death if known. You lost me for a minute. I was literally thinking about when I was going to go to dinner.

Starting point is 00:53:11 The only reason why I wanted to read that was because it says fourth width. Alina is just going to put fourth width in all episodes. You're going to get to the end and she's going to be like, and fourth width. And fourth width, I say it. I am. So they did manage to get six dudes to volunteer for this. Fourth with. Just went and grabbed him down there.

Starting point is 00:53:30 Brought him back to the crime scene. And I guess they were all like, oh, it really smells out here. I don't know if this is a crime. I think she did it. I think she did it. Yeah, they were like, I don't know if anyone really told us what this was about. No. So, they're like, we're here.

Starting point is 00:53:43 Let's do this. So the sheriff described the scene and the telegram he sent and they determined that yes a crime had occurred. Yeah. Next was take a look at Martha's mental state at the time of the murder. Yeah. Because now they've gone the corps, corners and quests, over with. Because by all accounts, yes, a crime crime. So they're like, let's look at Martha. The next morning on Saturday was Mariah's funeral at the Baptist church in the village. That's so sad.

Starting point is 00:54:12 85 and that's how you go out. I'd be so mad at Alfie. I would, I'd be like, I told you. I'd stay telling you. And I feel bad for Alfie because then Alfie and his sibling, Seattle brother Riley and a sister, Louisey. Louisey.

Starting point is 00:54:27 Louisey. We're in attendance as well as many of the villagers. Like the whole community. I would be a little mad if I was Alfie's brother or sister too. I'd be like, I'd be a little mad. Can you pick them better? I'd be like, not a great choice. So Martha was transferred to the jail officially from lockup.

Starting point is 00:54:42 She was almost catatonic. They said, like, just staring blankly, like, just like no emotion. The sheriff and sheriff, JJ, like, Rod Sadler's great, great, great father. Yes. And it up sleeping on a cot outside of her cell in the jail that first night, because he was worried.

Starting point is 00:55:01 Wow. Like, he was worried she was gonna take her own life. He was worried that she was, because she was like losing her shit in there once she got put in the jail. She's not someone I would wanna spend the night with. No, and she cried all night or she paced, like, or just wailed.

Starting point is 00:55:15 The next morning she repeated to him that she had killed her and said that she had hit her. She said, my mother-in-law hit me in the back with something and I thought she was trying to kill me. That's what she said. And she said, my mother-in-law hit me in the back with something and I thought she was trying to kill me. That's what she said. And she said that she would have killed me if I had let her. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:55:31 And I were like, probably not. She was 85. But he asked, he was like, do you feel bad? And she said, no. And she said, I don't feel bad because I didn't do it to be mean. Murder is always mean. It's never taken any other way. Just for that like mean. Mean spirit is. It's never it's never taken any other way. Just that mean mean spirit. It's not not a good deed. It's just it's never taken as like

Starting point is 00:55:52 Well, you know, I didn't I didn't murder her with malicious intent. Just it's always mean. Yeah Like hate your mean meanie number one right there. It was mean what you did meanie Martha I'd be like I'm sorry It was kind of me to break it to you, but you're kind of an asshole. But he also said that while she said this whole thing, she was grinning the entire time. Oh, no.

Starting point is 00:56:13 And like she scares the shit out of me. She's like real scared. I am terrified. Yeah, she's real scared. She was like I didn't mean to be mean. Well then, and she does these things where you're like, oh god, I'm nervous. Yeah, I just got full. And then obviously she'll flip into like, you're like, oh god, I'm nervous. You know why, I just got full chills.

Starting point is 00:56:25 And then obviously she'll flip into like, you're like, oh no, like something's wrong. So it's like everything is wrong with this situation. She started banging her head against the steel bars. Oh, no. Martha, that's the point where she was bleeding and clearly trying to like kill herself. What the fuck are we doing?

Starting point is 00:56:41 And then she would go between singing and praying and screaming and crying. No. Clearly she was unwell. After she hit her head so hard on the bars, they talked to another doctor who said, he was like, oh yeah, I know Martha Haney. And then he was like, I tried to have her committed before.

Starting point is 00:56:58 Like I tried to get someone to commit to help her. And he said he had actually encouraged her brother Richard to apply to have her taken into care. They don't know exactly what happened there if he had tried or not. But he was like, I would try to like, I know about this lady. Right.

Starting point is 00:57:15 Her brother Richard actually came to visit her in jail. And when she saw him, she claimed she didn't know him. Interesting. And he was like, it's me, it's Richard. And she said, no, Jesus got him, I don't know you. Oh, I see. There's something going through. That's what it's like, throughout this, you're like,

Starting point is 00:57:31 what? And then it gets to this part and you're like, oh yeah, she was definitely like struggling with her mental wellness. And she started praying and she started singing a song. No, stop it. And the song is, oh, I can't go to heaven to hell, I must go. Murderers don't go to heaven, and that is where I'm bound to go.

Starting point is 00:57:48 Is that a Martha original? I think that's a Martha original. Oh, not positive. Alrighty. She said this, she sang this a ton of times over and over. She just kept repeating it, getting like louder and louder. And then she fell on the floor in an epileptic seizure. Oh my God!

Starting point is 00:58:03 So, yeah. So then it's like, whoa. She had an epileptic seizure. Oh my God! So, yeah. So then it's like, whoa. She had an epileptic seizure in the middle of this? She had an epileptic seizure. Okay, I don't know if this is a really stupid question. Can stress spring on a seizure? If you have epilepsy? If you have epilepsy, I would imagine it does.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Clearly she must have. Yeah, because I know that there had been like talk that she was epileptic, but Alfie said he never saw her having epileptic fit But you can go like but you can go a long time. Yeah, so maybe this just brought it on yeah She went to court and three doctors Dr. Sidney Culver Dr. Alexander Mcmillan and Dr. Edie North of Lansing were brought on to Determine whether she was actually insane or not. They agreed that she was indeed insane. They said, quote, we, the undersigned, appointed by the said court to examine said Martha Haney and to inquire into the facts of her case and report to the same court, do hereby

Starting point is 00:58:58 report to said court, that in compliance with said appointment, we have carefully examined said Martha Haney and have inquired into the facts of her case and do find that she is at this time insane, and without sufficient mental capacity to undertake her defense in this case, and that she has dangerous and criminal tendencies and is wholly irresponsible for her acts. We base our findings on the following history and mental condition. She has always been considered simple and feeble-minded, even as a child. She has been subject to epileptic seizures since she evidently resulted from this epilepsy. She frequently engages in prayer in the singing of devotional songs at in-offertune times

Starting point is 00:59:39 and places. She presents the appearance of a simple-minded person. Her face lacks expression. her conversation is disconnected. She seems to be almost wholly deprived of memory, but this loss of memory is partially assumed without any apparent reason. While she sometimes admits the act of killing Mariah Haney, she does not seem to have any conception of the enormity of the crime, or even that she has committed a crime. In witness thereof, we have fixed our hands this 28th day of April 1897. Wow. So, but she was in saying according to these three doctors.

Starting point is 01:00:14 You know, I think so. Yeah. And it seems like it's a skit, like paranoid skits of Phranias seems like. They're still screaming. I'm sorry, it's my house. So she was found to be insane at the time of the murder and she was committed to Michigan asylum for the dangerous and criminally insane. Oh God, I can only imagine what that was like for her in the 1890s. It can't have been good. I did find another newspaper article that I just wanted to read some of it. This was for when she was going

Starting point is 01:00:45 through her hearing period, like before the doctors got there. It says a preliminary hearing in the or the title of this is the Williamston murderous undoubtedly insane. Murderous. Murderous. A preliminary hearing in the Williamston murder case was held before Justice Squires this afternoon, conducted by prosecuting attorney A.M. Cummins. The testimony of but-two witnesses was taken, that of Sheriff Rell, under whose constant care the woman has been since the terrible deed, and that of John Robinson of William Stin who discovered the ghastly crime. John Robinson was the guy who came in and saw her walk at a room and all that.

Starting point is 01:01:23 Absolutely nothing new was disclosed. Probe judge Porter declined to hear the case as he could not commit to the asylum for criminal insane and accordingly the proceedings were held today. The case will go before judge person of the circuit court and Mrs. Haney will be committed to the asylum for criminally insane in Ionia.

Starting point is 01:01:42 The prisoner sat in court half bent forward with the expressionless face, unconscious of the gaze of curious spectators, and of the terrible statements being made against her by the witnesses. Occasionally, she would make an incoherent remark, swinging backwards and forwards, constantly applying a handkerchief to her face. She was a most pitiful being to behold. When a jornment was taken, she was half carried from the courtroom between Sheriff Rell and a brother of hers who lives near Mason.

Starting point is 01:02:11 That's Richard. So that's a bummer. Yeah. And when you hear that, like, because at first you're like, oh no, like maybe she's faking some of it. And you hear that and you're like, this does not sound like faking. No, it sounds really sad.

Starting point is 01:02:24 It really does actually be. And then I found another article from the Sacramento Daily Union. And it's entitled Shocking Tragedy in Michigan. I love these old, these favorite clips. I love my favorite. It says horrible deed committed by an insane woman at Williamston. Also, insane is just so mean. Well, in this whole, this is so outdated, this kind of language. Like horrible deed, committed by insane woman. I mean, if you think about it language from 10 years ago, is like outdated.

Starting point is 01:02:54 Exactly. 1890s, this is like, whoa. Yeah, eight. And it literally says, the worst crime in the history of the city and state, a woman decapitates her mother-in-law and places the head upon the dinner table in front of the sun's plate when he sat down to eat. Yikes.

Starting point is 01:03:10 Like, whoa. And I'll just read a couple of these things because I, again, will do the newspapers. We love. We love. The people here were frighteningly shocked at the details of an awful tragedy which had just come to light. Never before in the history of this town or of the state for that matter has there been such a horrible crime perpetrated. It appears that Alfred Haney,

Starting point is 01:03:29 a respectable and hardworking citizen here, returned home at noon today, and when sitting down to take his dinner, which that's not what happens. That's gonna say that's lies. Found his mother's head on a platter in front of him. His wife had gone crazy, cut off the old lady's head and placed it before her husband for dinner. Haney was shocked beyond expression, and for some moments sat in

Starting point is 01:03:49 his chair and dumb horror. This is not true. Like what a lie. Like the media has always been filthy. Yeah. His great love for his mother and the thought of her frightful end almost caused his heart to stop beating. Oh, come on. With Poe. What passed through his mind will probably never be known as he is a reticent sort of a man who seldom talks, except on rare occasions. Why do you think he fucking seldom talks now? It probably doesn't want to talk to you about this shit.

Starting point is 01:04:15 After remaining some moments in a dull stupor, he realized that something must be done. Something needs to be done. He jumped from his chair and rushing out of the house. He called on some neighbors for assistance. No, he did not. So then it just goes on. Hey, Haney had some enemies in town,

Starting point is 01:04:32 but he did not think it possible that they could have been so fiendish as to murder his mother and then shamefully mutilate her. It doesn't even sound like he had enemies. Yeah, exactly. And then it says after a thorough search of the house, they found Haney's wife hiding in one of the upper bedrooms. There was a one floor house. There was no upper bedroom. Like there was no upper bedroom.

Starting point is 01:04:49 And they found her in the backyard. Yeah, and it says it did not take very long for them to be confirmed of his suspicions. The woman laughed hysterically and said, did you see it? Wow. Which I don't know if she said that. Maybe she said that to someone else. She may have. She's then shrieked and laughed alternatively until the people who found her were only too glad to escape from her after locking the room securely so she could not get out. They just lost her room.

Starting point is 01:05:14 It's not true. She was outside digging. Then it says a further search revealed the presence of a bloody knife hidden in one of the front rooms. No. No, it's a nice phrase in that. They like got away with this bullshit. And then it says it appears they didn't get along very well.

Starting point is 01:05:30 The old lady was inclined to be friendly with the wife, but the letter always said that she had no business in the house and ought to go and live somewhere else. When in all actuality, it seems like they both hate each other. Yeah. Not that I'm saying she deserved anything she'd have. No, no. The mother, however, felt that she was entitled to a home with her son and for that reason,

Starting point is 01:05:47 she would not go. It says, the wife had begun to act queerly. Queerly. She would do the oddest things at all times, and it was then seen that she was verging on insanity. Her husband, however, and friends never for a moment imagined that she would comp comp the template murder. Once she was seen taking a big bread knife and running her hand over its edge, as though to feel the temper, her husband asked why she did that and she smiled and said nothing, which is like, who are you hearing this from? Like what are your sources because they're all incorrect.

Starting point is 01:06:22 So it says, and then this, as far as her husband can find out, the deed was committed just before he reached home. No. That's a lot to set up before he reached the house. His mother was accustomed to taking a nap in the forenoon, and it is supposed that she, while she slept on the lounge, her daughter in law approached and severed her head with a big knife. No.

Starting point is 01:06:44 I just had to read that because I was like, wow, that's so wrong. That's like where get your facts straight originated from. That is very wrong. I'm astounded at how wrong that was. Like, wow, fact checkers. Yikes. Sorry if you heard a paper.

Starting point is 01:06:58 I like printed out all these newspaper articles because I wanted to make sure to read them. That's so mean. That's so mean. So yeah, so unfortunately Martha was committed to Michigan asylum for the dangerous and criminally insane, which I think we can all agree that mental illness was probably not handled in a great, you know, gentle,

Starting point is 01:07:20 no loving, understanding way back then. So I imagine it was not a great place. Definitely not and Once she got there she was immediately diagnosed with consumption So they were like you've had consumption for quite a long time. Could that that's the like how gaunt she looked and how she was losing weight She had a constant cough and they thought she was coughing because of the smoke from the crime scene, right? But then Alfie was like, no, she's had that cough. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 01:07:49 So she had consumption, and tuberculosis was like huge back then. So they were like, oh, good. So it went diagnosed and undiagnosed and untreated. I wonder if that made her mental health worse. Who knows? And it's like, and so she ended up dying 17 months later at the of consumption.

Starting point is 01:08:05 Wow. Yeah. And like a little, another little snippet I found on like FindDegrave.com. Oh, that's kind of that one. Someone has posted like a newspaper clipping. And it said, Mariah Haney, the woman who in April 1897 cut off her mother-in-law's head, which is like, wow, what a way to be known. At Williamston and had it on a platter at the table when her husband came to dinner,

Starting point is 01:08:26 died at the Ionia asylum of consumption last Saturday night. She was not a troublesome patient, but has been very insane ever since she was sent to Ionia. Yeah. Wait a write. She has not been troublesome, but she has been very insane since she got there. Not troublesome, just insane.

Starting point is 01:08:44 Just very insane. Maybe they're saying she was like very sick been very insane since she got there. Not Troublesome, just insane. Just very insane. Maybe they're saying just like very sick. Super insane since she's got her like very nice. Well, three years later, Alfie met a woman named Alice and phone love. Alfie and Alice were destined to be together. They were. They were.

Starting point is 01:09:00 They moved in together and then people saw the move in together and they got in trouble because they weren't married. So they were legit arrested and charged with Lude and the Lasavius cohabitation. That was real. Wow. Also Lude and Lasavius cohabitation, band name, I call it Lude, just Lude and Lasavius. Lude and Lasavius cohabitation, taking the stage. Wow.

Starting point is 01:09:29 So he put guilty to it. He was like guilty as, hard to have lived with this woman. And was sentenced to 10 months. We've been living loot over here. We have been looted and lascivious for days. Alice got eight months. Wow. Yeah. And when they got out of the clinkias for days. Alice got eight months. Wow.

Starting point is 01:09:45 Yeah. And when they got out of the clink, they got married. I believe it. Good on them. They got married. Seemingly, everything was cool. They should have just given them the chance to get married, right? That in there.

Starting point is 01:09:56 I know. Like just marry. It's fine. Right. So the Haney house, where it all, the house where it happened. That was around for quite a bit. No thing. It's at 320 elevator street, but was burned down by the Williamston it happened. That was around for quite a bit. No thing. It's at 320 elevator street, but was burned down

Starting point is 01:10:08 by the Williamston Fire Department in 1990. Ironic. But the foundation still stands. You can find that in the place. In 1990? 1990. Wow. So it was around until 1990, the entire structure.

Starting point is 01:10:19 So another hundred years. People had lived in that house. No, that's not a good idea. Which means, thank you. I would be good with that. That idea is all around. So, that is the story of Martha Haney. Girl!

Starting point is 01:10:30 It's insane. Also, I was like just literally thinking this the entire time. I did not know that Mariah was like an older name. Yeah. I thought that was like originated from Mariah Carey. Yeah, totally. I thought that's what I really liked. It was like me.

Starting point is 01:10:44 Because I feel like everyone I know named Mariah Carey. Yeah, totally. I thought that's when I really heard it. Mariah Carey was like me. Because I feel like everyone I know named Mariah is very trendy. I mean, who knows if Mariah Hayney's? Maybe she was a trendy. Oh, she gives trendy, you don't know. I don't know. I don't. You don't.

Starting point is 01:10:57 All you know is that she was a kickin' at like 85. Like in the 1890s. I did know that now. She didn't deserve it. And you know what, Martha Hayney, it sounds like was a very ill woman. This was a very bad case. And it's like she was ill in many ways physically, you know, emotionally mentally. She was ill. Yeah. And unfortunately, she lived in a time where it wasn't exactly easy to

Starting point is 01:11:18 care about or to manage or, you know, it was, and I didn't even know what that was, I bet. And you could be, I mean, you could literally, people thought that mental illness came from being poor sometimes. They literally were like, oh, poverty makes you mentally ill. And it's like, nope, that's not what that is. I think like a lot of rich people are also struggling. So, you know, affluenza.

Starting point is 01:11:41 But, yeah. Oh my God, do you remember that? Oh, I remember that. Oh my God. Yeah. So, I feel bad for everybody involved here. It got a bum rap. They did. They really Mariah most of all bummast. Alfie, who sure? But you know what? He lived happily ever after the I'm glad he got at least a little bump a little bump in the room. A little bit of a happy life after that. Or from what I could see, I couldn't find anything else that said, besides his arrest for loot and the civious co-habitation. I think everybody else was, you know, and then Martha, I just feel bad. I do too.

Starting point is 01:12:14 So you may have just heard my stomach growl. I don't think anybody did. I hope not. It was very loud. But yeah, that's the case of Martha Haney. And go read Rod Sadler's books because holy shit. There's three of them I'll link them all and what did you do? Things what did you do when you read them? What did I do when I read them? Yeah, remember you you sat in the beginning

Starting point is 01:12:32 You like devoured it like oh my god Thank you. Yeah, I ate them up So and I will be covering more of his cases because holy shit. Oh, hello He's a great writer so go follow and if you want to see like his whole thing, go to rod sadler.com. Because he's a way. His whole site and his bio is there. You can look at his books. You can see all the craziness.

Starting point is 01:12:52 The whole darn thing. The whole darn thing. Dude started using like ancestry.com and just was like connecting leaves and was like Holy shit. Look at this story. That's what Papa's doing. That's so cool. Papa, every time I go to the house, he's like, you know, you got a cousin out in Missouri

Starting point is 01:13:06 who was related to Lorenzo. And I'm like, oh, do I? That's great. That's great. Alright, then, let's do it. He loves who they have to study. And yeah, it's insane. And if you read this book, you know, to Hell I Must Go, there's a ton of other history

Starting point is 01:13:23 in there that obviously I did not include because you should read the book. Because I, you know, that's the whole point here is go read his book. It goes into the history of the town, the history, you know, further back into these people and the sheriff and all this cool stuff. So definitely go read his book to find out more. Yay! And you can also go ahead and follow us on Instagram at Morb podcast hit us up on Twitter at a morbid podcast Send us a jameil morbid podcast at gmail.com get some of our merch for Chris, Miss Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, whatever you celebrate at Earth. Oh, I'm just gonna say that. I'm a Linus for the I remembered

Starting point is 01:13:59 At shopped up morbid podcast.com do it. We love you and we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're here! But that's where you move in with your mother and your husband. No, your mother and the, okay. But that's where you move in with your mother and your husband and like you're really angry at everybody. And then one day you changed the photo.

Starting point is 01:14:19 I don't know why you wanted to change the photo. Maybe you wanted to warm up the distant memories of your kids that you gave away. I don't really know. And you know, you got mad and you chopped mama up and you went to jail and you started singing, singing, singing. And then you died of consumption. And so you shouldn't keep it that weird.

Starting point is 01:14:32 Don't keep it that weird. I had to close my eyes throughout that term. I was all the details. Don't keep it tuberculosis weird. Don't keep it TV weird. Don't keep it TV weird. Bye. Peace. Bye, peace. Hey, Prime Members!

Starting point is 01:15:15 You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.

Morbid - Episode 190: Martha Haney

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.