Morbid - Episode 192: The Tragic Murder of Sarah Ludemann

Episode Date: December 6, 2020

This week Alaina covers a tale as old as time but with a modern MySpace twist. Two girls fighting over one dingus of a boy. Rachel Wade was living her best Bad Girls Club life, dating the quintessential bad boy, Josh Camacho. Josh Camacho was dating many other girls that Rachel didn’t know about though, specifically Sarah Ludemann. Instead of blaming Josh for being a two timer when they both found out about each other, the girls took out their anger on each other by fighting on myspace, through text messages and eventually voicemails. The tension between them kept getting higher and higher, and would eventually end in an explosive fight that would take one of their lives, far too soon. As always, thank you to our sponsors! Pretty Litter: Do what I did and make the switch to PrettyLitter TODAY! Get 20% off your first order by visiting PrettyLitter.com and use promo code MORBID. Embr Wave: Right now Embr wav is offering our listeners $50 off when you go to embrwav.com/morbid Plush Care: With PlushCare I don’t put off seeing a doctor and neither should you. No more excuses! Make your appointment today. Go to PlushCare.com/morbid See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's ANGI, or download the app today. Hey weirdos, I'm Alena. And I'm Ash. And we just discovered our soundboard. Guys, we have had morbid. Oh yeah, and it's morbid. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Guys, we have had this like roadcaster. Yeah, it's a roadcaster. We've had it for a while now. Yeah. And we knew, I knew those little buttons could be sounds, but I thought you had to put them on there. I did too. And they're they're pretty colors, and I like them. I'm pink. My little sound effect is pink, which makes a lot of sense. We just went through and we were like, what the fuck? So guys, there's even and we're not going to bombard you

with the best. Of course not. I would love to, but we're not going to. But we found this one. So we might be bombarding you with that one. That would have to be used, I feel. Yeah, that one. We're all agree. And then like every now and then can we do like a clapping? Like I had a good idea. It was good, wasn't it?

Everyone's so excited about my idea. And you know what? I really wish during the BTK series we had that. The Wamp- Wamp. Right? Oh, like what a missed opportunity. I mean, go back and add that in. Honestly, I should just edit it. And then there was no water in the house.

I love, you know, I used to have this teacher in sixth grade or seventh grade, it doesn't matter. But he was like a dick. And whenever we would laugh at something stupid, because we would laugh at stupid shit all the time, he would write on the board small things and use small minds. Ew.

And boy was he right. Because honey, that's hilarious. It's so much fun. I love it. But we just, we had to let you in on that, because we're like, we gotta tell everybody. And you're our everybody. So, and everyone, everybody, you gotta hear this,

it's hilarious. But those little things for our intro were perfect for each other. I think they were perfect. We won't trust, we're not gonna like overdo this. No, it's fine. But like, I, because I know some people like, oh shit, this is gonna be a thing now.

It won't, I promise. We just wanted to tell you about it, because it's fun. But every now and then, because that is fun. Every now and then, I'm gonna throw. We just wanted to tell you about it, because it's fun. But every now and then, because that is fun. Every now and then, I'm gonna throw one of those in just because it's here and it's fun. And we can put like that sparkly one at like really an opportune dance to be like hilarious.

Like, it's so good. And then he was sentenced to life in prison. I took that works really well. That's so funny. I think it works really well. Okay. So, we'll move on from it, but we digress. Glad we could have that moment with all of you. If you're just joining us for the first time ever,

we've never used sound effects before, so how well? Glad you could join us on this one. So I think we don't have like a ton of, because this is technically our mini episode. We don't do those anymore. We don't do them, but it's like still a kind of mini. I do have one little correction that I told you about before this. Yes, so embarrassed.

When we did, I did Dorothy Stratton last week. So good. And I was like, oh yeah, and she's buried in the same cemetery as Marilyn Monroe. And you were like Hollywood forever. And I was like, yeah, we were both wrong, which is insane. Yeah, because Marilyn and Dorothy are both buried at Pierce Brothers Westwood Village,

Memorial Park, and mortuary, which I, I feel like it's like one of those things that you have believed for so long. Yeah, they were in Hollywood forever that I was like, no, because I always thought that Marilyn was in Hollywood forever. Well, this what, this is what makes it even worse. I have visited Marilyn Monroe's grave, but I've been there. I've been there. Hollywood forever. Touched it.

Like, I was there. Yeah. And I thought I was in Hollywood forever, so I was not. So, who are wrong? So, that's shocking to me. I'm like, well, look at that. I've been saying, forever, oh, I've been there. I haven't been there. Oh, such a bummer. I've been to that other one. Yeah, but

Mara was there. Yeah. And Dorothy go and Dorothy. So there you go. It's great. Yeah. So we just wanted to correct that because I think someone pointed it out. And we were like, what? No. And then Ashley looked it out. And we were like, shit. So thank you for that. We appreciate it. So thank you for that. We appreciate it. And I think, yeah, I think today's episode is... This one's like kind of crazy because I think it's one that a lot of people can somewhat relate to on some level. Oh. If you've ever been in a relationship with the wrong person, check. Particularly the wrong guy.

Check. If you've ever had your anger at this guy misdirected towards a girl. Um, actually. Which I feel like most of, like, and I think it's because, like, you haven't had, like, I never had like a series long term relationship of a deal. So I think it's like, I think people who have can understand that, like,

sometimes when you get in like this toxic relationship with a dude. Yeah. And there's another girl involved. Sometimes you're anger that should be at this guy. Get's misdirected at the girl because it's just, we all know. We, a lot of us have been there. I've been there.

Yeah. I will fully admit that. And you look back later and you're like, well, shit, I should have been mad at him. We both should have been mad at him, but we were mad at each other instead. This is one of those scenarios. It's like, till as old as time. It is. It is such a tale as old as time.

And again, since we've all been there, I'd like reading this. I was like, oh, guys. And it's just this one ends really badly, obviously, because it's on the show. Because here we are. Because it's a lot of work all morbid. But reading this case, I was like the whole time,

I was like, guys, you can do better. Just leave, just leave. Like both of you just tell him to fuck off and leave. But they didn't. Oh no. So it's unfortunate and it has a very unfortunate ending. So this is the case of Rachel Wade and Sarah Ludeman. All right.

Sarah Ludeman is the victim in this case. Okay, that's weird because my case for later involves a Sarah as well and she's the victim in my case. Wow. Look at that. So it's the week of Sarah. Sarah's. And there was a lot of Sarah's and the witch trials and stuff too.

Yeah, Sarah's got a bad rap. They do. Sorry, Sarah's out there. I know. That's rough. This is a love triangle as I kind of set up a little bit. Love it. This love triangle was between Rachel Wade, Josh Kamacho, who we don't care about because he sucks. Okay. And Sarah Ludeman. This is like very much about the, this takes

place in 2009. So it's very much in, is it the same year? Did you just see my face? My kids, really? It was in 2009. Oh my God, we didn't even know that. No, because we don't tell each other. No, we don't. That's insane. That is crazy.

Look at us. We're on the same wavelength. So this is right smack dab in like the internet age, the my space age, where you don't have to talk to someone face to face. You can just sit there and have a huge knockdown dragout fight over my space, and nobody is ever really having to do anything. And that like orange comment section.

Of course. Of course, and this is the thing. It's like, and then it began the whole thing with people posting photos to make other people angry. Yes, you know, you find out your boyfriend's cheating on you because the girl posts a photo, and it's like, oh no. A thirst trap.

Exactly. And again, we can all relate. I think everybody who was part of that age is sitting there going, yep, yep, yep. So this involves all of that. It takes place in Pinellas Park, Florida. So we're going to talk about Rachel Wade first. She was born February 27th, 1990.

So at the time of this whole thing, she was 19 when this all went down. Okay. Her parents are Barry and Janet Wade. Her dad was a truck driver, her mom was a special ed teacher. Oh. She was beautiful.

She's blonde, like tiny, like very, like bomb shellish. Glitch. She just has that look up, like you look at very, like bomb shellish. She just has that look up, like you look at her and you're like, wow, okay. Like, you're like, hate you. Yeah, hate you, but like get it girl. Yeah, and you know, guys were all about her. She was very, very popular,

but she was also kind of like a bad girl. So she had the whole thing going for that girls club. As a child, everyone described her as like super sweet, goofy, she loved Disney, she wanted to be a princess, she was the typical, you know, just like good little child, you know. Later she became a good student, she was very active in extracurricular activities,

everything was going swimmingly. Seems like everything was just gonna keep going well. That is, yeah, that's her. All right. This is such a my space photo. We got duck lips. Yep. And we have an arm holding the hair on the other side of the head.

We have, you know how, when you would take your hair and you would comb it through your hair halfway and then flip it to the other side and hold it there. Like, hold the arm back. Like, I'm so ravaged right now. Yeah. And then she's making that duck lip face. Yes.

Yeah, that's her. And that's her in a nutshell. All right. That's who she's making that duck lip face. Yes. Yeah, that's her. And that's her in a nutshell. All right. Basically, that's who she is as a human being. We also have to hop in bottom eyeliner. Oh, yeah. Oh, of course you do. What a time. Oh, I loved bottom eyeliner. Me too. She looked bad. Now and I'm like, Oh, and I have like, yeah, no, yeah, no, it's no good. No. So again, later, she was a good student. Everything's going well. It's all looking great. Then she turned 15 Well, and apparently that's the magic age where she was just like fuck the world Let me tell you it is and for you it was as well

You know what this all checks out. Yes. Yeah 15. She hit the rebellious stage. Oh my god. Yes girl She hit it hard. She hit it like a mac truck hits a wall. She hit this thing. All right She and her parents started budding heads over every single thing. She was close to them before and now she's fighting with them about everything She dropped out of high school. Okay. She started running away. She was running away multiple times like something like 14 times or something And she was hanging out with a tough crowd, always with older boys. Is the sound of a new year. Just like. No.

Much to her parents, Shagrin. They were not. I love that. I was psyched about this. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids For Cash scandal,

a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme,

one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychy Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler.

On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings. Breaking down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. And in fact, the same year that she turned 15, she was caught in a car with a 19-year-old

man. Because that's a man. That's a man. She's a child. That's a man. Who's a man, so good? He was arrested and he was charged with a felony sex crime.

Oh, and she was 15 years old. Yikes. No good. Not good. No boy, no. So this was a bit of a pattern that began with her too. Okay.

She really craved attention from men. Okay, and I think it seems to me like she is one of those people who is a beautiful person naturally. Yeah. She has all, that all going for, she was gifted very much with that. I think you get told that over and over and over and over again because I'm sure her parents were telling her

you're beautiful and for family. And for family. And for telling her that it starts to become all that you think you're worth. Your main source. Your worth lies in how you look. Yeah. That's why, and I'm not trying to be like,

this is how to raise your kids. I'm just telling you, this is what I always try to do with my girls. Yeah. Sure, I tell them they're beautiful because they are. But, and I want them to be like confident and know that they're these beautiful creatures. Absolutely.

But that's not their only way to follow it. Always follow it up with, and you're so smart, and you're so funny, and you're so creative, and you do this, like you just try to follow it up with. And you're so smart and you're so funny and you're so creative and you do this, like you just try to follow it up with stuff, especially with little girls. Do you know where I learned that? Where?

Jessica Simpson's book. Wow. Jessica Simpson has a daughter named Birdie and I think that's like the cutest little name ever. And she said that she learned not to tell her, like I think she had a talent show or something and she was like you looked like you were having so much fun up there Oh, yeah, like you look beautiful up there because it's like place the importance elsewhere as well

So it's like of course because it just and I and to me it feels like when when it becomes a thing We're they're craving attention for men like that and they're relishing in that attention Right, they're needing that attention because that's what they think they're worse. Exactly. They're not putting it somewhere else, which is a bummer. I totally got that. And it's something that's very easy to do

as a parent, like, to do the other way by accident because I constantly want to tell my kids, like, you are the most gorgeous creatures that I've ever watched. Well, you made them. Yeah, you made them, of course, they're beautiful. So it's like, it's so easy to do that. Right.

But just throw, like, some of them. They're so smart and you're so funny and you're this and you're beautiful. So it's like, it's so easy to do that. Right. But just throw like some others so smart and you're so funny and you're this and you're that. Yeah, we all love a little, but unfortunately for Rachel, she was, you know, she really liked having boys chase her. She liked boys fighting for her attention. She needed them to be interested in her all the time. It was where she placed everything. All right.

It was her main source of happiness and fulfillment, which is not good. That is, that's very sad. So by the time she was 16 or 17, she had been detained by the police several times. Oh. Some of these times for assaulting her parents when they were in fights. What? Yeah. So she was really going down the team. Yes. Seriously. The same year, 16 or 17 years old, she told them that she was moving out and moving in with a boyfriend. That's hilarious, I would have said.

Well, and at this point, they were like, we'll pack for you, Princess. Get the fuck out. So they were just like, bye. Good. Good luck. Rach. You can't assault us anymore. And let me tell you, Rach didn't do anything great with her life.

So we'll just say that. Yeah, I saw the first pictures and then I saw some later and I was like, I guess it doesn't go well for her. Did you get a mug shot in there because it's not going off? I actually didn't. Yeah, there's one in there. So that boyfriend didn't last weird. Crazy. Right. No. When you're 17, no one. Yeah. So nuts that it's 16 years old. It didn't last for anybody who did last good for you, man. But this one, I mean, it does. Also, she's a K out of human. Right. It's just not going to work. This is very different. These two fought constantly because they were children, essentially.

He later said one fight ended where she held a knife to his throat, and he dared her to use it. And she just dropped it in Ran Ray crying. But we'll see later that that's like, what an indication of things to come. Why would you ever dare somebody holding a knife to your neck to do it? Because he obviously thought she was bluffing, but imagine if she wasn't.

Honestly, with her, right? She probably wouldn't. Right. So they ended up breaking up in 2008. That goes without saying. Shokker. And during this time in 2008, she became reconnected with a boy that she actually grew up with. Okay.

Named Josh Kamacho. Yes. She had known him her whole life. It's not like they hung out all the time, but they were like, they just suddenly reconnected and all of a sudden they were like, ooh, like we have a lot in common. What up? You're hot, you're hot. Yeah, they were into it all of a sudden.

So before she becomes like fully reconnected with him, she kind of like saw him out and they started talking a little. She decided she was like, you know what? I'm going to try to turn this around. So she got her GED. Oh good job for her. She got a job as a waitress at Applebee's. Awesome. And she got her own apartment. Wow. And she was like, I'm going to keep this job. I'm going to be independent because she was very independent. Okay. And she was like, I'm going to do this. And then she starts talking to Josh. And it's slowly slipping down and down and down.

So Josh just drags her down, which we're gonna see Josh drags everything around him down. So that's just what he does. So that's Rachel, and that's how she became connected with Josh. Okay. Let's talk about the other part of this triangle, Sarah Lutiman.

Okay. Sarah Lutiman was born December 7th, 1990. Her parents were Charles and Gay. They are a cab driver and a nurse respectively. She was super daddy's girl. Like, very, she was her dad's best friend. They were like, he describes her as like his partner, like his like little sidekick.

They were just bros. Wow, what's that like? Which I love. No, that's a sad. But when you think later, you're just like, that breaks my heart. No, yeah, that's a lot. Because also she was an only child.

Okay. Like she didn't have any siblings. She was teased a lot growing up. She basically, she's the exact opposite of Rachel. Okay. She did not grow up being this blonde bomb shell that was just naturally like, had it. Right.

She had dark hair. She was, what bothered me is every single thing I read about this was like, really emphasized how Rachel is this petite girl, of course. And that Sarah is bigger. She's also not bigger. She's just a normal size person and Rachel just happens to be

petite. Right. Exactly. Which is fine if you want to describe it as Rachel's petite. And then there's Sarah who is like very normal like average. Not normal is a hard, weird thing to say. But like, I just feel too, it was weird that they focused so hard on how Sarah's so much bigger and Rachel is so much smaller. I'm looking at a picture of her right now and she is a very regular sized girl. But it was, I think they focus on it maybe because as we'll see later, I think the insults that start getting thrown around between the two of them focus a lot on how

Rachel tells her fat a lot. It's just one of those insults. But, and I think it's also they get in fights. So it's like really trying to hammer in that Rachel's this tiny little thing, and Sarah's like this monster. Like it's how they put it. And you know, it's just not true.

Right. And it just bothered me. I'm like, stop focusing on this. Yeah, that's annoying. But she did get teased a lot growing up because her weight would fluctuate a little bit. And we all, you know, like the chubby stage when your little kids can be dicks.

Yeah. But she did, you know, when she got into high school, she was very well liked. Everybody, she was very nice. She loved animals. I guess she was like very kind, very empathetic, like just one of those people who should work with animals. And she desperately wanted to be a vet when she grew up.

Okay, so she worked hard. She got always, like always for it. She was like, I'm getting my grades, I'm going to vet school. She specifically attended Tarpawn Springs High because they had a veterinary program. That would help her get in. So she never had a boyfriend. She just wasn't interested in dating.

Because again, she was really focused on her life. And her parents said she was very nurturing, just kind, loving, goofy, sweet, everything you would want a daughter to be. Basically exactly what a bet should be. Yeah, all those qualities. So once, the one night in the summer, she went to Chick-fil-A with her best friend. Yes!

And as they sat in the dining area, one of the cooks in the back was coming out for his break and he looked at her and he smiled and he gave her a little wink. And then he said, my name is Josh. And that boy was Josh Khmacho. I knew it. Sarah immediately was like holy shit because it's not like she was looking for guys' attention. So I don't think she would even notice if guys were paying attention to her, but it just

wasn't on a radar. But he did it in such a big fashion in this different way. He just came out and gave her the wink and everything. That she was like, ooh, you're gonna notice that. He was like, oh shit. She's full-sooned. And again, she's never had a boyfriend.

She makes me sad. And when you're younger, anything, that is so exciting. Oh, it feels so exciting. All these fucking movies were shit like that happens. And when you're younger, like anything, like that is so exciting. Oh, it feels so exciting. All these fucking movies were shit like that happens. Exactly. And then it's happening to you. Yeah.

And you'll like see he's winked at me and now it's gonna be this love story. Right. So immediately puppy love, they started talking. And they immediately exchanged numbers, texting, flirting, together all summer. All. Then fall came. Oh, this is gonna fuck me up.

And he stopped. All of her friends said he would not acknowledge her or give her affection in public. He would only do it in private. So that's horrible. And she has never had a boyfriend before. And he's making her feel like this is normal. Right.

This is what a relationship is. So she doesn't understand what's going on. I think she's not happy with it, but she's like, I just, she's kind of desperate for his attention at this point. And she doesn't want to ruin it. Exactly. Uh, she, he was an absolute dick. He controlled what she wore, where she went, who she talked to. She was only allowed to wear pants. She couldn't wear shorts or skirts, because she did a lot of men seeing her legs. And her parents had heard of Josh who had a big reputation as a bad boy and a playboy. He loved the reputation by the way. He loved being like the bad boy. Of course. He had tattoos. He took those shirtless mirror picks. So bad. Where he had, yeah, it's just the yucky They hated this her parents. They were not psyched about it

But they were trying to like just go with it and trying to like so They were even like you know what we want to get to know him like let's get to know him We're hearing things, but maybe we should just get to know him for ourselves So they tried good for that. He was a dick to them Well, he wanted he really didn't want anything to do with it. That's good He would like kind of talk to them, but he was a dick. And that's so hard. Like that's so hard when you're trying

to show your parents that like you like this boy. It's just an absolute dick. Like I can tell you that's happening. That was every boy I ever brought home was a dick. And you're just like, can you be normal for like one second, just for three minutes please. Just try it. So they just didn't mesh mesh but Sarah's suddenly changing uh-oh she's all the sudden not

really sure if she wants to be a vet anymore and she doesn't really know how she's worked her whole life for it and then she's like you know what I'd like to transfer to Pinellas Park High School because that's where Josh goes of course they don't have a vet program. No. So suddenly her whole life was about Josh. She, her grades are slipping. She's starting to get a little melty. She's just, everything's changing.

Her father was referred to Josh as the rat. Oh my goodness. That's what he would call her, which I was like, I respect that. I love that so much. I respect so hard. That's something, Papa. Slash your dad would do.

100%. Yes. 100%. And now Rachel and Sarah knew of each other. Like they now they were going to the same high school. They ran in like similar circles. Sure. But they were like we said polar opposites. Yeah. Literally the polar opposites. So they were acquainted. But they were not friends. Now while Josh is talking to Sarah. He's dating Rachel Okay, but in his mind and he'll say it later. Oh, they were I was just sleeping with them What they thought was what they thought but no, what a douche But neither one of them know each other. They don't know that the other one's going on

So Josh himself just to give a little more background on him He already had a child and he was a deadbeat father to this child. Oh, good. So he's definitely someone to be all in on, because he's really killing it. Like the baby's mother was literally, like he has literally never spoken to this child, never acknowledged it, nothing, never helped with this child,

nothing. That's shitty. Which, you're a shipbag. Yeah, 100%. He and his brother were actually known for being this way and being assholes. Like they were just known for their reputation. Okay. They would use girls for money and other things

and always have more than one girl at a time. This was just their thing. They were also incredibly possessive and abusive in relationships. Uh-oh. A friend of Josh's said, any girl he was involved with ended up quote supporting him, buying him clothes,

buying him shoes and paying his cell phone bill. Oh, come on. Which is less like why ladies? Why? And when you see him, you're like, he ain't it. I don't understand. I haven't even looked up a picture of him. I don't understand.

But then I say that because it's true, you'll look at him and you'll be like, what? Right. But these guys just, they can do it. Well, because I was gonna say, if I look back on some of the guys that I dated, I was like, so upset over, so infatuated with.

I could ring my own neck for the dudes that I like really went to bat for. It's like, are you fucking kidding me? Okay, here I am on the record. Sorry, if you're listening, but you're a high school boyfriend, like you're gorge, and I was like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm on the record. Sorry if you're listening, but your high school boyfriend, like, you're gorge, and I was like, what the fuck? I was probably seven years old being like,

what the fuck is this bitch doing? And he was like a horrible, horrible boyfriend. I was horrible, boyfriend. I was spilling the tea at seven. So it's like, and again, that was around the, you know, I was a little younger than they were. But you go to bed for these dudes because they convince you that it's worth it. Right.

And it sucks. Because then you look back and you're like, what? Like, why did I do that? Come on. So both Rachel and Sarah's friends said they never understood the thing with Josh. All of the friends are like, we didn't get it. We don't know what they saw on him. I like can't see his face in this picture.

I just see his abs. So like, I get that. I guess when you're a teenage like, can't see his face in this picture. I just see his abs so like I get that. I guess when you're a teenage girl, but it's not, it's nothing. And they said they never got a good vibe from him. They were all a little worried. They knew his reputation, but neither one of these girls wanted to listen, of course.

So of course he's playing both of them. And it really worked out for him because Sarah was always labeled the good girl. Yeah. And Rachel was the bad girl. Of course. Sarah had an early curfew and early being like 12, which is like not an early curfew. No, that's not.

But she had a curfew because she was living at home with her parents. Right. And they were like, yeah, you have to come home. So it worked for him because she would go home for her curfew. And then he just goes stay at Rachel's apartment. Exactly. So it really worked for him. So early shift to late shift. Right. Basically, and neither one knew anything, any the wiser. Right. So he saw Sarah as the weaker and easier to mold of the two because she had never had a boyfriend again. And she was the

good girl. So he told her, again, what to wear, how to think, who to talk to, and she just went with it. Now, I can't picture him doing that to Rachel. I don't think he did the same thing with Rachel. I think he worked a different angle with her. And I think he was just like, I'm the bad boy, you're the bad girl,

we're supposed to be together. And she just fell under his spell. Okay. Because she really went to bat for him. Uh-oh. Now Sarah started even molding herself to him, like Ann Perkins from Parks and Rec. Yes. She was just like mold to her boyfriend.

She was dressing like him. You could tell. You could tell. And friends said she did like a complete 180. They didn't even know her anymore. Aww. Then the fights between Sarah and Josh began. OK.

Now, she was actually detained and questioned by police a few times for their public fights. Oh, shit. Her fights with other girls on his behalf, it was just getting really ugly. Josh punched her in the face once and admitted it. And she didn't want to press charges. What? Yep. He was physically assaulting her more and more. She would never

want to press the charges. He punched her in the face and admitted it. What? And he also broke up with her several times and then we just lure her back. Of course. He was a fucking monster. Yeah. He's horrible. Now, at the same time, he's sleeping with and pretending to be with Rachel this whole time. Right. Now, Rachel posted some photos of her with Josh out of nowhere. Like, one day, she was just like, here's the photos and just posted them on my space. Right.

I don't know what came over or why she decided this was the time she was going to do it. I don't know if he had, in my mind, I'm like, did she do it because she was like, why aren't I allowed to post photos of us? I'm just gonna do it. Or if he told her to do it, because I could see him being like, I wanna see you two fight. Yeah, probably.

I could definitely see it. So she posts the MySpace photos and Sarah sees this and it's like, what the fuck? Like who the fuck is that? So she confronts him and he's basically like, yeah, I'm sleeping with her. What? Whoops.

I'd be like, cool, get the fuck out of my apartment. She was pissed, but she was pissed at Rachel. At the wrong person, of course. It is like, no, get mad at him and I understand it's like one of those things. But still, you don't learn it until later in life. No, you don't. This is when Sarah started freely posting her photos with Josh and Rachel did not take

it well. No, because she thinks this guy is her boyfriend. Of course. And she's changed her life for him. Of course. So in a MySpace blog, because do you remember those? I do. MySpacebugs.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are where the magic happens. I was a MySpace blog at the end of My space. I was gonna say you weren't fully immersed in the my space situation. No, who boy the my space blogs. That's where people would like really like air their shit. Yeah. And in hers on June 17th, 2008 Rachel wrote, when we first met I was madly in love. But since then things have changed. You called me names,

you slept around. I deserve so much better. Which I'm like, yes, you did. You did. You did. Yes. But then Sarah commented on that blog and wrote, found better. Oh, which I was like, shit. Sick burn. So they were able to somehow get each other's phone numbers. I'm sure either they found it in Josh's phone. Oh yeah. We're able to find it out from other people or Josh just handed him out because he liked seeing this happen. Yeah, 100%.

Because I wouldn't put it past that fucker. No. Now, they started texting and calling each other fighting like back and forth. Oh no. Of course over Josh. So the first voicemail that Rachel left for Sarah said, you're fucking with me when you

fuck with Josh. Seriously, I'm letting you know now you're either going to get fucked up or something of yours is. Stop being a bitch. Uh-oh. Which it's like girl. Okay. So, that was the kind of things that Sarah was getting from Rachel.

And then Sarah would taunt Rachel. Okay. So Sarah and her friends would go to Applebee's and sit in her, and then Sarah would taunt Rachel. Okay. So Sarah and her friends would go to Applebee's and sit in her section, and then just harass the shit out of her. That's like, yeah, funny. Like, they would literally like spill shit on the ground for her to clean up or the like, put her their foot out and make her like trip with shit. Like in Lizzy McGuire when she got her, her cafe job.

Exactly. You're welcome. And I guess there was even, I saw like an interview with one of there with Rachel's friend, I think it was. And she was like at the time there was this song called Girl Fight, which was like just everybody remember that. Girl Fight? Yeah. Well, they went to Applebee's and there was karaoke and her and her friends sang that song to Rachel. So it's all like, this sounds a lot like the town I grew up in. Yeah, it's like what girls would do. It's not only very just high school shit.

Yes. Like it really is. I mean, they went to, I guess at a Taco Bell once, they were like, went up to her car and silly stringed her. Oh yeah. Like stuff like that. So it was getting to the, I'm sure it was, it was pissing Rachel off

that like she was getting, you know, but Rachel was also coming right back. They weren't, neither one of them was the aggressor. They were aggressors. They were coming at each other. So they slashed each other's tires and shit. Like, it got crazy. Yeah.

So Rachel on August 26, 2008 2008 left another voicemail. And this one said, seriously? I told you to watch your fucking back and not to chill with him. Now your ass is mine and I'm guaranteeing you, I'm gonna fucking murder you. Oh. I'm letting you know that right now

because you know what? Josh might have played me, but bitch, I'm gonna play your ass out too. Watch. Oh, you know what they call that? Yeah. Pre-meditation. Yeah, they sure do.

And I'm just gonna quickly play you a little clip. Oh, you have that voice mail. So you can hear the real, the real like fury behind her voice because I think it's important to hear the fury behind her voice. I also just like need that. Yeah, you do. Next message. Oh, we, I don't need fairway. I also just like need that. Yeah, you do. Next message. Oh, we only say why you would be a dumb enough?

Put a brand new picture of you and Josh after me. Seriously, I told you to watch the back and not the show with him. Yeah, you're off the mind. And I'm guaranteeing you, I'm no fucking murder you. I'm letting you know that I know. He says, you know what?

Josh might have played me, but I'm a player, I've got two watches. You're a bastard be able to see me murder you. I'm letting you know that I know because you know what? Josh, I've played me, but bitch, I'm gonna play your ass out too much. You're a bastard, and I'm gonna f**king kill you. I swear on my right. Watch out your f**king window when I get off work tonight, you dumb bitch. So... Alrighty. That kind of just like really lays it all out. That escalated so quickly.

And also, imagine getting a message like that? Yeah. I would not watch out my window. I would go to the police. That is, I've never received something like that. But like how many times have you been like, oh my God, I'm gonna murder you. But like, you don't leave it on a voicemail.

No, no, no, I'm not taking that. But I'm like, oh yeah. And it's also you don't say, I'm guaranteeing you, I'm gonna fucking murder you. Yeah, I've never said that to anybody. And being like watch, I'm literally going to murder you. She said, I swear on my life. Yeah, I swear on my life, I'm gonna murder you.

And then there's another voicemail that's from Rachel that says, I'm gonna find you and I'm gonna beat your ass. He can get anything he wants from me. You still got your mommy and daddy's curfew bitch. Why do you run your fucking mouth? Anyway, anyway, are you that pathetic? So keep talking shit Sarah. I'm gonna fucking teach you. I'm telling you now. So you want to say that she's pathetic, but he punched you in the face and you didn't want to press charges. Exactly. It's like, I just, and she keeps saying,

and she's making such tangible threats in these voices. Yeah. Such tangible threats sitting there being like, I'm gonna teach you. Like I get, she said I get into guarantee you. I get into guarantee you. I get into murder you. On my life, I'm gonna murder you. Like girl.

That's not gonna bowed well for you later. Also, just don't say that to people. So then there came the MySpace photos, more MySpace photos that really set Rachel a flutter. Okay. So Sarah and Josh went to New York City. They posted photos. Yeah. And I guess there was like photos, but she got another voicemail that said, and I have this

one too, and I'll play it for you because I think it's important to hear her like you're reading. Yeah. But sometimes it's hard to hear. So it says, how do you like my, or no, excuse me, Sarah wrote as the caption on here. How do you like my photos? My man, not yours. I know.

It's no good. So she got another voicemail from Rachel from this one. And it has a similar vibe to it. Right. So here it is. Next message. It's so funny what you talk. Do you want to sit there and say that my man without your house, then tell him that So here it is. You can play a game, dress a better, little bitch, and you're a little, you can go honestly.

You have this going for you that you also want to do over me for. I got a job, my own play, you have, what, seriously? Do you get anything you want from me? And you f**king have to mention that I will probably ten times f**king better than you, and you run your mouth. You still got your mommy and daddy's curfew bitch for God's sake. What, you, why do you run your f. You still got your mommy and daddy's clothes, you bitch, for God's sake. What? You, why do you run your mouth and why do you got the panic? Please do, we stir it on your mind,

because that's what we do. It's just like you and your mom. Look, you pop it there. You only want the back, you have a hundred or less. And yes, but I'm just, teach you what I'm calling you now. Just with me, Sarah. I'm going to say,

I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing. You know, I'm going to show you something. Just with me, I'm going to tell you what I'm doing. I'm going to tell you what I'm of that she's basically saying I look better than you You know you still have your mommy and daddy's curfew I what would he ever want from you? Like I have my own place, I have my own place. Which to me, I'm like, so you're trying to convince yourself of your worth.

Because if you have to say that to somebody else, then you're convincing yourself. The way she's speaking to him, you definitely did not speak like that. No, like she's literally acting like she has, like, she's, I mean, she's, she runs shit. Like she's tough. Yeah.

And she's not tough. Right. As we'll see, this girl is not tough. Well, I was good. I, you're not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but I'm looking at her and I'm like, I'm not be scared by these questions. And honestly, you can look at her later

in her police interrogation interview when she's wearing a little cardigan and crying her ass off, protecting that she, you're not tough No. She what she is tough. She's tough on my space She talks a tough voice male right when it comes right down to it. She's not also doesn't it kind of sound like I obviously don't think that she wrote it down But it sounds like she's reading it really does it's like a script like I'm going to fuck you up because I have I Do more things than you and I'm gonna fucking fuck you fucking up, fuck. I have shelter.

And you don't. I can't offer him my kitchen. I have my own bathroom. I have hamburger helper in these cabinets. And it's like bitch. You listen to it and it's just, I wanna be like girl, he's cheating on you. It's her.

Like, this is the main problem here. The main problem is Josh, not Sarah. No. And it's like Sarah, the main problem is Josh, not Rachel. Right. You two hate each other, that's fine. You don't ever have to be friends, but like, fuck his world up.

This is some change. This is some change up too. That could have just ended so differently. And they could have been sitting here like, we are right now like remembering like, oh god, do you remember that girl you hated? Exactly. And be embarrassed about how you acted.

But it went somewhere totally, totally different. So keep going. So April 14th, 2009, is when it really just like, they just really started going hard at each other. Rachel was texting her and rubbing it in that she was with Josh, she would text her. They throw a status up when they were with him.

It just became this whole thing. And you know what the shittiest part about this all is? He is sitting there. I love doing the show. He loved it. Of course he did. And then he turned into a big ol' coward and tucked his tail between his legs

when shit hit the thing. Shocking. Now, they, and Sarah's a mess over this because she's really upset it's her first boy friend and this, what a hell of a way to start. Yeah. And so she's been a mess and that night on April 14th, 2009, she saw Rachel write a MySpace thing, like one of those MySpace like blurbs that was there. Yeah, that's a love in my boo.

And she lost it. So that night, that afternoon, there were there was text that Sarah sent to Josh. Okay. She sent one at one oh six p.m. that said whatever Josh, you get so mad at me for everything, but you don't give her, but you don't give a shit when she puts something up or says something, you always believe her. And then she wrote at one o'clock, it's like no matter what I do, she's always much better.

It's like then why are you piling her as a tension? Like, you can get somebody else so much better that actually cares about you. So at one thirteenth, she sent another text because he's ignoring these. Of course, because he's a fucking asshole. And she wrote, all we fight about is her

or something that has to do with her and it sucks. I hate fighting with you. I love you so much, but the shit hurts. No response. Girl. So then, now that was at one o'clock in the afternoon. At 6.36 pm, she writes, but him again,

because he's not writing. She writes, you say you love me, but you don't have the decency to text me back. Yeah. No response. It's like that in, of it's in and of itself should tell you. But then, eight o'clock, two hours later,

he just writes, bring the movies. Are you fucking, and she ran out the door to his house. No. And you know what, it's, because we can listen to this and we can be like, what the fuck, Sarah? We've all been in that position. From, from Hines, like now, we can say, what the fuck, Sarah? We've all been in that position. From Hines, like now, we can say, what the fuck Sarah? We've all fucking done that shit.

Totally, totally. Like younger us have all fucking done that shit. I did stupid. I let so many things go with my ex. Oh yeah. He full on had another girlfriend for like upwards of a year. Yes. Found it out.

I took a back. Right. And it's like, and I got like into it with the girl. Like, I've done this. That's why this case, I was like, I feel for this whole situation. For sure. Because ever, and I feel like so many people can.

It will resonate with so many people because we've all been stupid teenagers. And it's so true, because you don't get it. You can sit there and say like, oh my god, like why would you do that? But we've all like, I've been there. And now we can say, no! Right, no, it's so clear now.

Now it's so clear as an adult. It's when you're in a healthy relationship that you're like, exactly. What the fuck was I doing? I wanted to. I once stated a guy that told me, I like showed him like an old picture of myself and he was like, wow, you used to be a lot thinner.

And I continued to date him. My God. My ass continued to date him. My God. My thick ass to date him. My god. My thick ass continued dating him. And then I was like, you know what? Goodbye. And now you're like, what the fuck?

And now I'm like Ashley Nicole. How dare you? I watched my ex have a, no, excuse me, listen to my ex at the bottom of the stairs. He said he was going to the bathroom. He went upstairs. Yes. Had a full-on conversation with his other girlfriend, which I heard

the entire thing. And he told you it was like some dude who was listening to a voicemail. Oh my god. And I believed it. And you were like, but why were you talking about it? But in my heart of hearts, I knew it. Yeah. Like I knew it at the time.

I was like, you just talked to another girl right in front of me. Yes. Like I knew it. It happens. And also, that was the LAPD officer, by the time. I was like, you just talked to another girl right in front of me. Yes. Like, I knew it. It happens. And also, that was the LAPD officer, by the way. That's why I shit on the LAPD. I was going to say, if you wonder why we shit on the LAPD. Because, you know, they suck. So, just saying, but I'm just saying this to point out the fact that Sarah, of course, we can look at this and go, Sarah, come on. Yeah. But Sarah was doing what every teenager does

when they feel like they love someone, and you feel wrapped up. Because they're like 17, 18 years old. They're like, at this point, they're like 18, 19. So it's like, but you're still in that, like, no, you on this kind of guy can wrap you up and really make you feel like he's worth fighting for. And it's like, it's just so tragic now.

Yes. It just sucks. This case sucks to look at afterwards. Yeah. Because it's so avoid. Even Rachel herself, I've seen interviews with her now and she's like, fuck. Of course. And she'll say it right.

Oh, right. Like I should have just talked to Sarah. Yeah. Like I should have done it. Yeah, she should have. That's still it now. Yeah. Like I'm not giving her anything because like fuck her.

But yeah, we're going to see. So she now. Yeah, like I'm not giving her anything cause like fuck her, but. Yeah, we're gonna see. So she runs out to be with them after not talking back. She's pouring her hat out to him. And he's like, for me. He's giving no response. And the first thing he says is bring the movies and she goes running. I'll say remember bringing movies places.

Yes, right. So he had told Rachel he couldn't see her that night because he was babysitting for his sister. I bet he was with Sarah. He was because he told her to bring the movies. Yeah. So I was, you're like, I bet he was. So according to Rachel, she was walking her dog that night

and Sarah drove by her on the way to Josh's house and yelled something like, stay away from my man or something of that sort. And Rachel said she got scared. Which, that no view just listened to those voice mails. I'm gonna go ahead and say that girl wasn't scared. No. I don't think she was scared. And she said to what's her face? She was like, I didn't mean to say what's her face. She said to, I keep getting them confused. Sarah. Sarah, no. Rachel

said to Sarah, she was like, you're acting like you're this this tough ass bitch. And it's like, but so are you. And then you're gonna say good- That you got scared of her yelling like, stay away from my man or something. That's all you've been yelling at each other. You literally told her you're gonna murder her. Like you told her that. And you're afraid of her?

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. So she said she ran inside and she grabbed a steak knife and she put it in her purse for protection. She then called her ex-boyfriend Javier Le Bois and asked if she could go to his house because she said she was scared to stay alone. So he was like, sure. Sounds like a weird story.

So around 11 p.m., she's driving there and she drove past Josh's sister's house. And Sarah's car was there. So she's pissed. She's really mad. She's like, oh, so you are sitting, baby sitting, but with Sarah. So Josh, his sister, his sister's friend and Sarah also Rachel drive past the house multiple times over and over again. She kept going around.

Then she texted Josh. She said, Now I know why you're not talking to me because you got her. So Josh texted back, that's right. I don't like you no more. Why are you down this street? Go home. What? So Rachel replied with no. I'll wait for her to go home, which is no good. So meanwhile, his whole plan for this was he was like, go home, get the fuck out of here. He was going to hang with Sarah till her few and then just go over Rachel's. Yeah, that was his plan for the night. Yes, I believe that. So Rachel's acting insane right now because she's driving around and around and around. Like keeps going by, she's texting him, she's going crazy because she's snapping again. We've all snapped at this point with this kind of situation.

Do you ever do a drive by? Of course, everybody has. She kept driving around and around. So Sarah waited to leave until they thought she had finally gone away. And she called her parents and told them she was going to be a little late for her few. And her parents were like, well, you need to get home. So it was close to midnight, but it was before that she was leaving in Josh's sister,

whose name was Janet. And her friend asked if she could bring them to McDonald's. And she was like, sure. So on the way to McDonald's, Sarah got a call from Rachel. Uh-oh. And she put it on speaker with Janet and the friend in the car. Rachel was screaming saying she was going to kill Sarah and like several other things. She also heard, apparently she said on that call,

I'm going to stab you in your Mexican boyfriend. Oh. Which it's like, whoa. Okay. But she's saying that about Josh? on that call, I'm gonna stab you in your Mexican boyfriend. Which it's like, whoa, okay. Like she's saying that about Josh? Yeah, like she's saying I'm gonna stab you both. Like she, that's what the friends said they heard. Okay. I'm going to stab you and her.

And him. So, so that's no good. So she also heard from her, so she hangs up the phone. She's like whatever. So then she hears from her friend Ashley, Sarah does. And Ashley tells her that Rachel was standing outside at Javier's house in his driveway, and she was like, just telling you, that's where she is. So Sarah was like, I'm gonna go there, and I'm gonna tell her, like, fuck off.

Don't go, she just told me and said that. We're the person who just said they're gonna stop you. No good. So she goes there. And she, with the sister, Josh's sister and her friend in the car. Now I remember this case. She pulls up and she sees Rachel leaning against the car chatting with two other dudes. So Sarah slams on the brake and jumps out of her car. And the two other girls jump out as well. Rachel grabs her knife that she had with her out of her purse, and they just charge at each other.

And at first it looks like it's like just like you know punching and pulling and like burp burp and it's like quick. Yeah, very quick like, well that absolutely nuts. People in the driveway and right next to them said they saw Rachel make two stabbing motions, and Sarah ended up stabbed in the shoulder and her chest. Oh no. Sarah immediately just like unlocked, stumbled backwards towards her car and called someone. Uh huh.

Who did she call? Josh. Not 911, not her friend, not her parents. She called Josh. And he answered and she said it hurts and then dropped the phone. Oh, no. That's the only thing she could say. Oh, my goodness.

Then she literally fell out of her car and onto the pavement. Javier, who is Rachel's ex-boyfriend, pulled his shirt off, like just ripped his shirt off, and tried to use it as like a turn a kid to stop the bleeding. Oh. So he, and then somebody somebody I think it was Janet, Josh's sister, or her friend I can't remember which one. Yeah. It's like different everywhere you look. That's fine. It's the one who called 911. Sure. And this is the 911 call. Okay, where on the body is the patient's death? So what she's saying there is fucking Rachel, she fucking stabbed her.

And the dispatcher says, okay, where on the body is the patient's stabbed? And she says she's been stabbed in the chest, she's just trying to breathe. Now during this, Rachel is having a full realization about what she just did and is in a state of like absolute panic and shame and guilt, right? Good. No, she's not doing any of that. What is she doing?

She's doing none of that. No, she calmly, according to all witnesses there and the officers who later came on, because now there's like eight people there. Walked back to Javier's porch very calmly, but before she got there, she realized she was holding the weapon. She just used to violently stab another woman in her hands. So she threw it over the side roof into the neighbor's yard. Then she just sat on the porch on a bench and said,

I'm done according to witnesses. What? And just chilled there. She's a full blown, so sealed path. Yep, I did it. Now, yeah. So Rachel got a call from Josh, like right away, and he wanted to know where she was.

He was like, what is going on? Like, what's happening? Because I just got a call from Sarah that said it hurts, like what? And she said, I'm at Harvey Air's house, and that's it. Yeah, that's all you need to know. That's a blood on Josh's hands. Exactly. And he immediately knew something bad happened, obviously.

So he drove to Sarah's house and told her parents that Sarah got in a fight. And he told them where she was. Yeah. So Sarah's parents went straight to the scene, but the police had already arrived and held them back. And her dad later said, like, I knew she was dead. Oh my goodness. Now Josh and Sarah's parents drove all together, the three of them, to the hospital to meet Sarah there. Now, as they're walking in, Josh, all of a sudden, says, I'm not going in. And they were like, you're not going in. And he was like, I can't see her like that. So her father literally was like, you fucking asshole, you're the reason she's in there.

I was like, you're the reason, I was an ankle. And he was like, it's because of you that she's like that. Josh was like, no, I'm not going in. I'd be like, wow, you really proved that you're a piece of shit through and through. Even a dick in this situation, and when they came out of the waiting room, at the out to the waiting room later,

he was just gone. Oh, I believe that. He just pieced. He just dipped. So police detective Mike Lynch spoke with Rachel at the scene, and he said she was just sitting on the porch, hadn't moved. Nothing, she was just smoking a cigarette. Come. Okay. I was waiting for you to tell me that she was smoking a cigarette.

Of course she was. Because I pictured her just like sparking one up. Oh yeah. She walked up there. She didn't say anything about the knife. She just was like, yeah. Like shit happens. And then she asked one of the other officers for a cigarette. Like that's how chill she was. Are you kidding me? Yeah. During her police interview, she said Sarah Janet and Janet's friend came rushing at her altogether and she said Sarah somehow managed to land like three punches on her before she even began to try to defend herself.

Oh totally. She's such a hapless victim. She then said that she had only brought the knife to scare her. She remembered grabbing it out of her purse, but didn't intend to use it. She said she didn't even know where she had stab Sarah. She just remembered suddenly seeing Sarah run away from to her car. Okay.

So she was like, I didn't do anything. I don't know. I don't believe that for a second. She then said she never saw the stab wounds and basically was like, whoa. Yeah, girl, you were on the phone like a week ago saying you were going to murder her. So then she said after the ambulance left, that Janet and her friend had attacked her.

She was like after the ambulance took Sarah away, Janet and her friend attacked me. Probably because you just killed someone. She stabbed her friend. Like are you real? Like you don't understand why that happened. You want us to feel bad for you because people hit you after you stabbed someone. Like after you murdered someone. And this, well this whole time, she doesn't know that she killed Sarah. Right, because so far,

no one's pronounced her dead, right? So this whole time, she's sitting bored. Like, if you look at this interview, police interview, she's got her, like, elbow on the side of the chair and her head and her on her fist just sitting there, like, leaning, like bored. Because she does not realize.

Like, super whatever. The repercussions on her become. Has no idea. She finally admitted, because they were like, where's the fucking knife, Rachel? And she was like, okay, whatever. For repercussions. Has no idea. She finally admitted, because they were like, where's the fucking knife, Rachel? And she was like, okay, well, like through it. And they were like,

he threw it where. And she was like, I don't know the neighbor's house. And they're like, into the neighbor's yard. She's like, I don't know in the neighbor's yard. And it's like, okay. So then 2.29 AM,

Sarah was pronounced dead from stab wounds to the heart because that chest one had nicked her heart. Oh my gosh The stabbing was so aggressive that the in violent that the knife bent wow now back at the station Rachel thinks Sarah is still alive. She has no idea also to like stab somebody like that with a steak knife. Oh, yeah Like obviously that took a lot of force. Oh yeah. Like a lot of, and that's anger and that is like, that's a lot of shit. And she used it to rush that or two. Oh yeah, she did.

Now this is what happened when they told her what had happened. And this was a right, close to 6am is when she found out a change of two. And basically she went on and on and on and then they just suddenly were like, well we have something to tell you. Oh my god. It is, it's crazy how they tell her. Here it is. So that's the secret that you need to know if it should be good.

So then halfway through, they do this little number. Oh yeah, it isn't that, it isn't that, it's definitely leaving you. Oh, it's not gonna follow you anymore because she's dead now. Oh, fuck, oh, fuck. She's not gonna follow you anymore because she's dead now. He was literally like, oneness.

Like, she's not gonna hurt you anymore, Rachel. You poor, poor victim because you fucking murdered her. Oh my goodness. That even like just like hit me for a little. Right, through me for a little. Like when I saw that, hurt you anymore Rachel, you poor, poor victim because you fucking murdered her. Oh my goodness. That even like just like hit me for a little. Right, through me for a little. Like when I saw that, when I heard that, I was like, oh, like it's just like, she's not gonna follow you anymore

because she's dead now. Cause you fucking killed her. Which is obviously like you're talking about a real human being, but it's like she needs to be whiplashed with that information. Absolutely. Even after this, you'll see,

she does not take any of this seriously. None of it. No. Even afterwards. So you can see, and immediately, you know, the whole time she's sitting there talking, she's like, you know, blaming it all on Sarah. It's all Sarah. She was the aggressor.

I was just trying to get away from her. It's all self-defense, for me, for me, for me. And then all of a sudden they're like, well, you killed her. She's dead. And also, she's like, oh! And it's like, oh, okay. So now you suddenly turned into this like whimpering mask. It's good to say now you're a deli- Like a flower.

Get the fuck out of here. So she was immediately arrested and immediately charged with second degree murder. Wow. I'm surprised she didn't get first degree because of those messages. I know. I feel like she maybe could have, but they were a little bit, I think they were like a couple of months before this. Yeah. So I think it, it factors heavily into the trial. I would think so.

So back at the station, that whole thing is going on. She ends up getting 15 months in jail before trial. And apparently she was very nonchalant about all this. She was making plans for after her jail sentence. She said she planned on marrying Javier, apparently. I don't know if he's gonna want to marry a murderer, girl. And it's like, I'm sorry, do you really think you're gonna get 15 months and you're just gonna serve,

you're gonna get time-served and you're just- You just get out of here? You literally murdered someone. And she had no idea that when you violently murder someone in front of other people, there are big consequences. To this. She was riding on this self-defense thing and she just kept saying it's Sarah's fault.

Sarah's fault. Sarah's fault that she died. And I'm just acted in self-defense. Whoops. Can you imagine still after like realizing that you killed someone blaming them? Oh yeah, and she thought this trial was gonna be this quick little thing

where they would wag their finger at her and say, don't stab people again. And then she just walked home and marry her. And Mary Hobbie air. So June, or July 20, 2010 is when her trial began. Her attorney, Jay, I think it's A bear, but it's spelled like Herbert. I think it's A bear though. It's fancy wanted her to take a plea deal because they were like, there's a lot

against you. You're like the fact that, oh, I don't know about eight people saw you stab her. And then you said, I'm done after and smoked a cigarette. And then we have all these voicemails. Have you literally telling her, I guarantee I will murder you? Like I swear on my little eyes.

And then there's also those witnesses that heard in the car, you say I'm gonna stab you before you stabbed her. So I think you should take a plea deal. Like I think that's probably your best interest. And she was like, nope, I wanna tell my side of the story. She didn't take the plea deal. Didn't take a plea deal. Wow.

So the prosecution. That's crazy. Very dumb and very balsa. That's like Ted Bundy dumb. Yeah. And you're like, what the fuck, different level? But the prosecution was led by Lisa at Hanowitz, who was like a real bad-ass.

She brought up the knife being bent. She bent the fucking knife. That's how hard she stabbed her. So her claiming I had no idea that I even stabbed her, wrong, shut the fuck up. And she said, here's the history where Rachel has stated numerous times in front of others and on audio tape that she was going to murder her. The defense used the standard ground law, which was in Florida at the time,

and said Sarah, and also kept harbing on the fact that Sarah was bigger than Rachel. Oh my God. So she was scared. She's also, she is not that much bigger. She's not, she is not, like calm down everybody. Like for context clues, I think she's smaller than me. And I'm not, she's a very average human being. Yes. Like, come on. Sarah's just, I think she's smaller than me. And I'm not. She's a very average human being.

Yes. Like, come on. Sarah's just, I think it's just Rachel's small. I think she's just tiny. I think Rachel is like my height or maybe a little taller than I am. Yeah, she has a very similar. And they said she's like 110 pounds. So she's just a small girl.

Yeah. But we don't need to like focus on it. No. They also brought up the times when, this is the defense Brought up the times when Sarah was aggressive with Rachel. Like, you know, the Apple B stuff and the Taco Bell stuff. The stuff when she was being the aggressor. But that's so like passive aggressive. And they're going to bring it up because it's the only thing they got. Right. That's all they got. Then they brought up the fact that Sarah went looking for Rachel at Javier. They're like, she's the one who showed up.

Javier said about Rachel after the stabbing. He said that she showed no emotion. So the fact that she's like, I'm gonna marry Javier. I'm like, he scared of you. He's like, I'm gonna test it out. I guess like, you know that you can't marry. He said right after it happened. He said she had quote, such a blank look on her face.

It didn't look like she was even there with us. Like, that's how we... And witness is there, including didn't look like she was even there with us. That's right. That's right. And witnesses there, including the two boys Rachel was speaking to in the driveway, said that Sarah didn't charge Rachel. And that Rachel went up to Sarah's car first. I believe so. So the two dude, she was conversing with her, even like, no, no, that's not the truth.

So about the knife, Rachel, because they were like, why did you throw the knife? If this is self-defense, and you had no idea that you even stabbed her, whoops, oh my goodness, why didn't you say it? Why did you throw the knife somewhere? We get rid of the evidence. And she said, quote, I don't know what, I don't even know, I don't know what happened. And I didn't want anybody else to get a hold of it. So if you don't know what happened, how did you know that somebody could get a hold of

it? So you didn't even know you stabbed Sarah, but you threw the evidence over the... Okay, right, that doesn't make any sense. So Josh took the stand. Wow, I'm surprised you showed up. And he said he had to like, sequestered the right... Or not, that's what the right word was. I said, it's subpoena him.

Subpoena, yes. Um, so Josh took the stand, he said he was sleeping with a lot of girls. And sure, they probably thought they were his girlfriends, but that wasn't his problem. Oh my god. The attorney asked him if he loved Sarah, because they said it was pretty clear that she at least thought she loved you. So did you love her? Don't tell me. And on the stand, he said, I think I did.

Okay. Which I don't believe. I think he parched it himself there. So also you could have perjured yourself further if you're just going to purge yourself in general and just say yes. Yes. But she's dead now. But no, we're just going to give a, I think I did. I think so.

And also, I mean, his, nobody in his, like he doesn't and no one around him think that he is at fault at all here. No one does. Well, everybody who is, like all the girls, friends and all the families there, everyone who's like his, his crew there, are the ones that are like, what was, why was this his fault? Oh, okay.

And it's like maybe because he like inflamed this whole thing the entire time. Men are always innocent. No, he's gonna send you out. And you didn't do anything wrong. Women. And it's women. So, and they actually did try very hard to get him charged with something in this. They couldn't come up with anything that they could charge him with.

And it's true. I'm gonna legally, they can't. up with anything that they could charge him with. And it's true. I'm gonna legally they can't. I don't think he deserves jail time. Well, and also I think he does. Do you? To be honest, because this never would have happened without him, and I don't think he deserves like a full-on prison sentence,

but I think he deserves to be punished. Mm-hmm. I can see why you think that. I agree. I agree. But there's no legal way to do it. So I will admit that like, and I don't, it doesn't make sense. I don't think he ever thought this would happen.

I don't know, he's an abusive prick. I don't see him having any kind of, I don't think he cares. So I don't think he cares at all. I don't think he gives a shit. And again, he inflamed this. Yeah. So I mean, he was hearing Rachel sitting there saying,

I'm gonna kill you. That's so much. You're not doing anything about it. Instead, you inflamed this. So I mean, he was hearing Rachel sitting there saying, I'm going to kill you. That's so much. You're not doing anything about it. Instead, you're encouraging this behavior. I know that actually is very good. But I mean, I thought that he punched Rachel. Yeah, he punched her in the face. He's a piece of shit.

And again, there's no legal way that he could be charged with it. I think so. I'm not saying like, you know, that, but I, he should be punished for something. Yeah. But either way, he's not. So police sergeant Tina Trey, I think it's like Trey, sorry, Tina. You tried. She was there.

Sargentina. Was that the crime scene? And on the stand, she was asked about Rachel state during the whole chaotic crime scene situation because they kept going back to that. Like, why was she so calm? And she said, quote, I noticed her calmness and lack of concern with what was going on.

And then she said, she was the one who she asked for a cigarette. So she was like, she asked me for a cigarette. Javier said that Rachel was ready to fight that night. Oh, yeah. It was standing in the street ready for Sarah when she pulled up. Of course. I believe that. The big thing in the trial obviously was the voicemails

left by Rachel for Sarah where she said I'm going to murder those threatening ones where she says again and again that she's going to kill her she guarantees it there was and again they focused on the witnesses saying that they heard her say I'm gonna stab you in your Mexican boyfriend yeah now the jury took 2.5 hours to reach a verdict of guilty. I'm surprised it took that long. She got 27 years in prison. Wow. Which she deserves. Absolutely. The judge said the murder was no accident. No. No. It's like don't even try. No, I don't believe that first. She did appeal, but she lost. So she'll still be in there. Rachel's father

Barry actually said, quote, we've lost our daughter as far as having her home with us, but she's still here for us to visit. But Sarah's lost. Her parents lost their only daughter, which I'm like, that's big of her parents to recognize, recognize, and say, and there were rumors that Rachel was going to write a book, but Sarah's parents filed a civil lawsuit to stop her from profiting from any of this. Yeah, good. Josh was not allowed to attend Sarah's funeral. Good, you know the dessert too.

Rachel is still serving her sentence at Lowell Correctional Institution in Marion County, Florida, and she will be there for quite some time. Yeah. You know, I wonder if Josh would have even attended the funeral. I don't know. Because he couldn't walk in there and say goodbye to this girl that eats things.

Yeah, it's like how can you, how can you even show your face there? Yeah. When everyone knows how you treated her, first of all. Right. And you are the reason this happened. That you are the catalyst behind all this. Right.

I mean, you can't play with people's emotions like that. You can't do it. No. And it's just a sad case. Very avoidable. I know. Very of the time and very just like frustrating to talk about later. That's the thing. It's so frustrating because you see the potential that each of them had. Exactly. And they just threw it away for this deadbeat. Yeah. That's the thing. Like what was what? Like what did you have? And it was probably something that only they saw, you know, that the whole thing that like you don't know him, like I know him, you know, it's all followed. We've all done it. And it's like, it's just

really frustrating. Oh, that's sad. Yeah. Yeah, it's a bummer. So that is the case, R.I.P. Sarah Ludman and Rachel Yusuk, Josh Yusuk. Yeah. So, woof. Yeah, what a doozy, they usually are. They always are. Well, you can follow us on Instagram at morbidpodcast. Hit us up on Twitter at a morbidpodcast. And that's a Gmail.

morbidpodcast.gmail.com. We hope it gave us an A. And we hope you keep it. We're. But that's where you meet this an idea. And we hope you keep it weird. But not to worry that you meet this point. You fall in love with him and really he's not anything to fall in love with at all. And you ruin your whole life and you throw it all away

for him and then you stab somebody and you shouldn't ever stab anybody. And don't ever tell anybody that you're in the murder of them because that could be used against you later. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus

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