Morbid - Episode 197: Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders Part 1

Episode Date: January 3, 2021

Alaina pulls at our heartstrings this week with part one of the Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders. In June of 1977, eight year old Lori Lee Farmer, nine year old Michelle Heather Guse and ten year old Doris Denise Milner headed off to Camp Scott for a two week girl scout experience. Unfortunately someone, or potentially multiple someones, had been lurking around the camp in the weeks leading up to night one. Whoever it was had more than sinister plans to kill the three girl scouts camping out in tent one. In Part One we’ll go over who each girl was, the night of the murders and we’ll end it on a pretty convincing suspect. Don’t bet too heavy on him though, in part two Alaina will bring some evidence to the table pointing away from who we thought was our lead suspect.  As always, thank you to our sponsors! Purple: Go to Purple dot com slash MORBID10, and use promo code MORBID10. For a limited time you’ll get 10% off any order of $200 or more! HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/10morbid and use code 10morbid for 10 free meals, including free shipping! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alina. And this is morbid. It's really morbid. It's a new year of morbid. Yeah, and I'm really starting it off with a bang, guys.

You know what though? I would expect nothing less from you than to really fuck us up for the new year Yeah, I like to come in like a lion not so much like a lamb. You don't say I Would say that you're the lion of the show. I wouldn't necessarily call myself a lamb though. No You're more you have more lamb like qualities. 100. You have a lamb like way about you. Thank you But I don't think you are like pure lamb. No, it's the Gemini enemy. I'm a lamb and I'm also like a goat because

666 I don't know what I'm saying you take over a goat So hopefully everybody had a good new year and everybody was safe and hopefully all of your lives just changed Immediately upon midnight striking. I lost a hundred. Everybody's just, they're all changed. And I'm being so much more aware, self-aware. There you go. That's all happening guys. That has happened. No, but hopefully, you know what?

We all have hopes for 2021. But let's be quiet about them, because, you know, could be worse. Yeah. But everybody just be optimistic. Yeah. Keep doing what you're doing. Everybody keep wearing those masks. Yes. You know, vaccines be worse. Yeah. But everybody just be optimistic. Yeah. Keep doing what you're doing. Everybody keep wearing those masks.

Yes. You know, vaccines are coming. Elena got her vaccine today. I did. I got my first dose. My second dose will be at the end of the month. And you're feeling good. I'm feeling good.

I'm feeling like a little cranky, but I'm feeling good. Yeah, that's not a vaccine. I love this stuff. No, I'm kidding. My arms a little sore, that's it. That's so far, that's all I got. So go get them because, but you can, it's gonna be great. I will take nothing except the Dolly Parton one.

Thank you and good night. There you go, is she the Pfizer or the Moderna? I think she's the Moderna. Oh, hey. Yeah, you got the Dolly Parton one. I got the Moderna one. I told Annie and she was like, is she getting the Dolly Parton one? And I was like, yes, indeed.

Like, I love that Annie was like, is she getting, not like, is she getting Pfizer or Moderna, is she getting the Dolly Parton one? Well's like, yes, indeed. Like, I love that Annie was like, is she getting, not like, is she getting Pfizer or Moderna, is she getting the Dolly Parton one? Well, because Annie's cousin is like a first responder. So he got vaccinated and he was upset that he didn't get the Dolly Parton one. That's amazing. I love that so much.

Not actually upset, I should clarify. No, like not, just jokes, you know? Kicks. K-I-D-D-D-I-N-G. Just saying. So I think really, oh, and I wanted to thank everybody for all the amazing birthday wishes because everyone was so sweet. I know how does it feel to be like elderly?

Feels good. Feels good. Feels really good. You're not elderly. I'm on my way. I know. You're right behind. I know. I'm about to be a quarter of a century old, so that's awesome.

Oh my God. Yeah. Not about to be. It's like six months old. Oh's awesome. Oh my God. Yeah. Not about to be, it's like six months old, but, oh, five. There you go. It's not about that. The birthday countdown to Ash's birthday has already begun like the day after mine.

She was like, and the countdown begins. It's my birthday. The countdown begins the day after my birthday. We all know somebody like that, and you are the first. All of you know someone like that, because hi, hello. Hi, hello. So I think, so yeah, I just want, before I go into it,

I just wanted to say thank you guys, because you were so sweet and it was so nice, and it made my day awesome. And John got me a signed David Bowie picture, and I look at it all the time. Yeah, he did. Because when you think about it, it didn't hit me, hit me,

that there's only a finite amount of those. Yeah. He's not signing anymore. I mean, he really struck me that I was like, whoa, I have one. Yeah, that's when he told it. Also, it is so hard to keep secrets, because John will sometimes tell me what he gets you when I was little. He would not tell me at all, but now I get to know.

And it's hard. Sometimes I'm like, maybe I shouldn't ask him, because I just want to tell you so bad. I know. That one must have been really hard. Yeah, it was difficult. And you know, the girls asked me the other day, this is just a little quick side note before we get into this. If David Boe, for some reason they were like, is David Boe still alive? Oh, because you got them that little book for Christmas.

Yeah. Like a kid's David Boe book. And I was like, yep. Like the, because I was like, I can't. I can't do that. I can't do that yet. No. I can't do it to them.

I can't do it to me. We can't all live through it again. So I was like, yes, he's still alive. I also think they're really, really smart. Because in the- you know how there's like- in that book, there's like the whole like kid cartoon part. And then at the end, there's like an actual timeline. Yeah, it's one of those like, um, little people big moms.

Or something like that. It's one of-'s a kids book about David Poe's life But in the back like the last part I read that to them and it's in past tense Yeah, and I think that they're so smart that they realized like that that was in past tense Yeah, cuz one it like the you know, you know who was like Is he yeah like she was like she catches on to everything when I told her, she was like, all right. I'll say, certain things and she'll be like, Titi, what did you mean by that? And I'm like, oh, fuck.

And you're like, why do you mean? And I'm like, also don't say fuck. Kids, man. And you know what? This segues really well into my case. Yikes. Because kids, man. Bikes.

So I'm going to be covering something. And it's funny that this is going to be like the first of the year Case for me because I'm always like I don't do kid cases. I don't want to do kid cases unless it's like really necessary Yeah, well, this is one of those necessary ones that I feel like we have to cover It is the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders from 1977 It is a case that I read 1977. It is a case that I read extensively about before I had kids. I was like fascinated by it. I read everything I could and then when I had kids, I was like, I'm going to come

back to that some day. We're going to really like go deep into it. So I know it really well. And then I think one of our listeners actually, I happened to be going into the email and I saw it. They had suggested it. And I was like, you know what? I'm ready. I'm ready to do it. I remember you like talking to me about this. Like when I first, when you started getting me into true crime.

I was like, this is a doozy. Listen to this one. Wowie. So this one's gonna be tough. This one obviously has to do with children, little girls. It's horrific. It's really bad. just warning. Yeah. There's, you know, a lot in this one, so... A lot to unpack. It's gonna be a

multi-parter because there is just so much. This is still an unsolved case. I know that's technically pisses me off about this. It is intetarying. It's because they had a guy who everyone thinks did it, but I don't know. And he and we'll find out when we get there. No one was ever put in jail for these crimes. Right. So we don't know.

And the one person that they were really looking at ended up dying like. I was going to say they're probably very shortly afterwards. So and when we go through the evidence at first, like upon first glance, you're gonna be like, oh, he did it. Right. And then when you start digging a little further into it,

you're like, oh, maybe not. There's too much, and obviously a jury saw a doubt, a lot of doubts. Oh, so this went to trial. Oh yeah, it did. Wait until we get to it, it's insane. Okay. So this is going back to the night of June 12th, 1977.

Okay. This is going to take place at Camp Scott, which is near Locust Grove, Oklahoma. I know I said that right. Locust Grove, Locust Sarabug. And a plant. And a plant. And a plant. There you go.

Are they really crocus, I think you're thinking? No, like a flower, a locust flower. Oh, a lotus. Bye. I was like a locust plant. Yeah, you know, whatever. It's one of the plagues of Egypt. Locust. Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, you knew that. Yeah, it's for sure. A locust plant, I love it. All right, so we're starting off the year right. You know, it's just the way you started off. It is. I also think, I don't know, sometimes my brain just like, it's not on full operation. I think we can all relate to that.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. So this is a camp that is spread across 410 acres. Jesus Christ. It's huge. It was originally opened in 1928, and it was named in honor of H.J. Scotty Florence, or excuse me, H.J. Scotty, and Florence Scott. So H.J. was called Scotty, because their last name was Scott. Obviously, camp Scott.

Not Michael Scott, where my office heads at funny. So these two H.J. and Florence were boy slash girl scout volunteers. I mean, they were just, they donated a ton to them. They were just, you know, really into it. Really philanthropic when it came to the scouts. Which is always just, you know, it's always something when adults are like really into the boy girl scouts. It's just like, it's an interesting pathology to me. Yeah, somebody is really into that. Listen, I'm sorry, but there's a cut-off date. I don't give a fuck. Well, and it's like if you grew up in it and you loved it, like that's great for you. I never did Girl Scouts and I never had any interest in doing Girl Scouts. But and John actually did Boy Scouts

and like, but one sip became, like I think he did like Cub Scouts. We didn't, can we shout out his mom because she was his troop leader. Oh yeah, his mom. Bad as bitch alert. She's amazing. He was like, she was like a troop leader

of all these little boys. Like did things in her home with the, like for like that whole thing where they would have to meet like once a month and do some crazy craft. Or so they, or like make a race car. Yeah. And put out a forest fire.

But he said he stopped it when it came to the point where you became like an actual like boy scout. Like when you weren't doing just like the silly things, like a scout with cute things. Yeah. And apparently it was because he was like at that point when you just like the silly things, like come scout like cute things. Yeah. And apparently it was because he was like, at that point when you're like a little kid, there's always an adult there,

your parents are around, it's like very like whatever. And then he said when you get into this like, going from elementary school into like middle school age, do they send to other people? And like he said, there's no adults, and it's just the older boy scouts that like haze you like he was like and I went Affertunity he's literally and he was like and I went to one thing and I came home was like I'm not doing this anymore And I'm sure that's not the case in every single thing

But he said his particular one he was like fuck that so he was like no there you boy scouts girl scouts I'm just there for the cookies. But they also do amazing things. It's good for little girls and boys who are into it. So not gonna like shit all over them. But it's just, it's a strange organization to me personally. I don't understand it. But it's because I'm not an out-dorsy person. I am literally wearing a sweatshirt right

at this very moment that says indoorsy. It's true. So we're really like we're really here. Funny day to pick that. My shirt says what would Buffy do? So certainly does. So obviously that should tell you how outdoorsy I am. She would not co-caping. I was sitting on my house watching Buffy the Vampire Player. I was a camping. So yeah, so it was named in honor of these two. They donated 24 of these acres to the camp initially and then the camp was extended each year.

It's in Tulsa, by the way. And it's extended each year like acreage with money received from like Girl Scout cookie sales, donations, anything they could. Right. 1956, they planted a ton of pine trees all across the camp, like really made it this like amazing place.

Yeah, that's awesome. And it's a summer camp. It's for girls to be independent, do the summer camp stuff. All that's, again, I am such like a theater kid. I did not do even a hint of summer camp in my life. I don't know what summer camp entails. I know this camp fires, maybe a canoe.

I went to, like my school put this thing on. It was called nature in me. And you went for like three nights, four days. And my mom, like, was very expensive. My mom had to like, scrape together the money to send me. I will give her that. But it was the worst experience of my entire fucking life. Like, thanks mom.

I'll credit you with that, but like, no thanks. But no thank you. Because it was horrific. Well, and it's, and we're gonna get to like this part of it soon too. I was never like, I wanna go stay away from my parents kind of thing, which we'll get into more.

You're like, me, me. I'm like, well, that was the selling point, but. But I never did any of these, but I obviously have seen enough summer camp things and no people went to summer camp. You were busy watching Friday the 13th and you were like, good luck out there folks. I literally was watching Friday the 13th

being like, went to summer camp. That's fine. Virtual summer camp. Crystal Lake was great, guys, thank you. But, you know, they did all those classic summer camp stuff. And then the girl scouts, especially at this age, they teach them to be independent, which is great. Yeah, start a fire and shit.

And these summer camps would happen in two week increments. So these girls would come in for the first two weeks. They would leave another crop would come in for two weeks. So you were there for two weeks. And they were young. I was like baffled. Oh, because first I was like, that's not really that long, but for little kids. Little kids. As we'll find out a couple of these kids were like nine, ten years old. Oh yeah.

That's really young. I feel like I I suck at that. So I don't know. So 140 girls arrived for this camp session. Damn. Again, there were 12 campsites on this site and they were named for Native American tribes because in the area it was a big Cherokee area and there was like a lot of reservation land around. So this was named after these Native American tribes. Each of these little units had their own like each of these units had like seven or eight tents to each of them. Okay. Sure, sure, sure. So, and they were also separated into like age group. So there wasn't cabins. They were straight up camping.

Oh yeah, and don't you worry, I'm gonna tell you how janky this entire operation was. Because we start out and we're like, yeah, summer camp is gonna be great independence. And then you're like, what the fuck were you all thinking? Oh no. Like in the poor parents didn't even know how janky this shit was. Oh no. Yeah, I get angry at this camp. But like you should see the camp first.

But I mean, I think, yeah, it's just weird. So yeah, so the youngest kids were put in the Kioa unit. Okay. And this was a unit with eight, technically eight tents. But most people, when you'll research this, you'll see it's either, you know, there's either 7 tents or 8 tents. What it actually is a 7 camper tents and then 1 counselor tents, so they don't count the counselor tent as one of their tents.

That makes sense. So technically the tent that we will be talking about a lot is tent 7. Okay. But some people refer to it as 10-8. It's hard when you're researching it. No, it makes sense. But just know that we are not counting the counselor's 10. Which is a whole nother thing that the counselors have their own 10th, and there's not counselors

staying with these young girls. Yeah, there should be at least one counselor in each 10th. Exactly, for the children. Because that's what they do with cabins. There's always a counselor staying in the cabin. 100, that's like a liability. It's, and trust me, it is. So, yeah, so the three girls we will be discussing,

which I will name in a second, were in the Kiowa unit. And that's where the youngest girls were. Now these cabins slash tents that we're talking about. When I say cabin, it's because they were made to look kind of like cabins, but they were straight up tents on a platform. Okay. Now, they were literally on a wooden platform that was 14 by 12 inches, or yeah, 14 by 12 feet, sorry, inches. I was like, so they were standing on their tiptoes, hugging each other the entire night. No, it was 14 by 12 feet, wooden platforms.

And then there was just a fabric tent on top of it. So all the walls were fabric. There was just a flap that stopped anybody from coming in or anyone from going out. We love that. When I saw these, I was like, what the fuck were you doing putting children in these? It was the 70s, right?

Still. Yes, I mean, still. What the fuck were you doing? Like, there anybody could come in and anyone could come out. And also, what about bears? Exactly. Hello. What about bears? You know what I mean?

No, but I'm thinking like, like, kids leave food out. Kids leave food out and also, like, say, a kid needs something in the middle of the night. They have to walk to the counselor tent. Like, you could get eaten by the fucking bear. And, or coyote. Or coyote.

All the lights were turned off at night in this camp. There was no lights. So it was a fun, literal pitch blackness. And when you look on, which we will post, like, the pictures of the camp and, like, the map of the camp so you can really get a visual of what I'm saying, because it's hard when you're not looking at it. But we will post it on the Instagram so you can look.

But there's, like, tons of woods surrounding this place. No, this sounds like my worst nightmare. They had put up a fence, but the fence was not even the entire way around the place. So there was just open forest at one point. Anybody going through the forest could definitely come in. Jesus. And then there was a gate,

but there was a lot of people that said that gate was not keeping anyone out. No. It was just like somebody could climb over that gate. Like hop over it. Yeah. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside

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You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What if you were trafficked into a cult, cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed? What would you do? I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondering that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first person

account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. So again, not a good way of doing it. And then the thing that really just gets me is that they could od the councillors' tent. When you think of like seven kids in tents and one councillors' tent, my first thing was okay, so you put the counselors tent in the middle and then you put the tents all around the

counselors tents. Yeah, they can see literally everybody at all times. Yeah, a hundred percent. If you're not gonna put a counselor in every tent, you better have them right there. Right, no. That's not what they did at the end of a while. They had, here's the counselor tent and then they all just went in a line. Yeah, that's stupid. So the counselors could see maybe two of these tents at any given time. The rest of them, you're on your fucking own. And you're in the pitch blackness next to woods

where we can't see anyone who's coming. If I was in the last tent, I would be like, Mom, can you pick me up? I'm scared. Well, what's even sadder about what you just said is one of the girls did just that. Oh, awesome. Yeah. So the little girls we're gonna focus on,

our Doris Denise Milner, who went by Denise. Michelle Guise and Lori Lee Farmer. Denise was 10 years old, Michelle was nine, and Lori was eight. Jesus. Lori was the youngest at the camp, and she was like very gifted, very mature for her age. But she was the youngest one at the camp.

So they were tent mates together and what happened was, I guess when they first arrived, you can pick your own tent mates and there's four girls to attend. These three girls happened to not know a lot of other people, so they were kind of left at the end. This entire thing is stressing me out. So they met each other and were like, yeah, we can be tent mates because we don't, you know, this is bad. We don't know anyone else.

Yeah, they were supposed to have a fourth girl, but the fourth girl, due to some weird error, ended up in another tent for the night, and they didn't want to mess with them because they were like, we know she's in there, so it's not it around right now. So they were like, you know what, we'll put you in their tent tomorrow night. So an administrative error literally saved that little girl's life. Wow. Like she must have after this whole thing been like, holy shit. She had some kind of like guardian angel or something going on. Some force of nature. So these three are gonna share a tent and they happen to be in the tent

the furthest away from the counselor. Why would you put the youngest camper olds? The young, like the, an eight, nine and 10 year old. Come on. Like to me, I'm sorry. Negligent as fuck. Yeah, no.

And like if, if you're gonna put anybody in the tent and to have it be like the 14, 15 year old girl. Exactly. It's like, what are you doing? And why would you set it up this way, that you can't see that fucking N10? What is wrong with you? Right. Like, this is insane to me.

This isn't it. No, I agree with you. That's ridiculous. And it's like, I try never to put like blame on any of these people. But this can. Sometimes there's blame. What the actual fuck? Sometimes people have blood on their hands on their hands.

And it's like they can, you know, we can sit here and say, of course, there was never like a murder. I don't think at like a Girl Scout Boy Scout camp before this. So I don't think that was like, of course that wasn't first on their mind that someone's gonna come in and murder kids. But it should be on your fucking mind.

Yeah, you're in charge of this. Anything can happen, you're in the middle of the wilderness. You have no idea who's out there. And it's like, I know that that's not first on your mind, but that should, unfortunately, we live in the world that you should, that should be on your mind. I know, I hate camping so much.

You're really stressing me out. And what sucks is I just told Annie's mom that I would go to camp this year because I didn't go last year because of Cove Cove. And now I'm retracting my statement. I'm sorry Donna. I'm retracting it. I'm sorry Donna, I'm sorry. I can't go'm sorry, Donna. I'm retracting it. I'm sorry, Donna.

I'm sorry I can't go. Yeah, it's not after this. I mean, I wasn't, I am never sending my kids anywhere away from me ever, for as long as they're 40. But after reading this, I was like, oh, honey, never. And if one of them love them so much, but if one of them comes up to me someday and is like, I would like to go to summer camp,

I'm gonna be like, just sit down real quick. And then I'm gonna hit play on this episode. And I'm gonna be like, do you still wanna go to summer camp? Hi, girls. Do you still wanna go? No, no, okay, cool. Okay, let's take you to theater camp. That'll be fun.

Let's go do that. Let's just go hang out with TT. Theater camp for a couple hours, mama picked you up, it's all great. All right, let's do that. Day camp, yeah. So the day that they showed up, what happened was they were all bust in and they met their tent mates, they picked their tent

mates, and then they would probably do some of those camp things that Elena doesn't know about. Swam. Because it's not like anything's documented here, we don't know exactly what they were doing. Just camp shit. And then we do know that they had dinner at like the, I'm gonna go ahead and call it a dining hall.

Was it? A dining hall? Sure, a dining building. They had that at like 5, 36 o'clock. They all started eating somewhere around this time. It ended up pouring. I think it was actually like on the way out of the dining hall.

The sky's just opened up, thunderstorm pouring. So this was a darkened stormy night. Nightmare. Literally darkened stormy. Nightmare. So they told them, you know, go back to your, you know, go dry up and there's not a whole lot to do. Go dry up while it fucking pours in your, go dry up felt cabin. In your fucking fabric sheet that layeth upon a wooden plank in the middle of the forest that we can't see so you're on your own eight year olds Like what? What? So they were like yeah go dry up. We can't really do a whole lot so maybe You can get to know your tent mates you can and then I think they were like why don't you write letters home? Like everybody write your first letter say how your first day of camp was. Oh, okay. So again, we're talking about, let's talk about the three victims

just so you can get an idea of who they are. So Lori, Michelle, and Denise went back to their tent. And I guess they sat down, they started writing letters. Now Lori, again, eight years old. Like you're gonna obey me. She's from Tulsa. Her father is a doctor. His name was Dr. Charles Farmer, known as like Bo.

Dr. Charles, love it. And her mother is Sherry. She was beautiful. I mean, the photo of this little girl you're like get out of my face. Oh, and the fucking pigtails. She's a sweet baby face. I mean, she's just a beautiful, beautiful girl.

She was exceedingly brilliant. I mean, exceedingly. And her father said she could, she spontaneously recited the Pledge of Allegiance at 16 months old. What the fuck? Yeah. Wow.

Well, her dad's a doctor. Yeah, so I think she just passed on. She could do 100-piece jigsaw puzzles by two So she's literally a genius. Yeah, like literally she skipped the second grade and was determined to have an IQ of 130 And in second grade was thought to have a mental age of 10 wow So she was like really on it and second second grade, I had to get a bathroom chart because I used to go to the bathroom too much

because I didn't want to be in class. Wow. Yeah. So not exactly a genius. So you were in on Lori's level. I'm still not on Lori's level. Honestly, who is? So her father is actually now the emergency room director at Tulsa's St. John Medical Center. And he's been that since 1977. So the year that this happened was when he got that job.

So he actually this is really said. Her mother Sherry said that the thing that haunts her today is she said that Lori wasn't sure if she was gonna go to this camp or a YMCA camp. No. And she couldn't decide. So she turned to her mother and she was like, what do I do? So she said, so I decided for her. Oh my God. And then she also said, I also decided which week of camp to send her to

and I'll have to live with that decision for the rest of my life. And that's just like, How did you never, what if you would never know this? No, like Sherry, you had no way of knowing that. You would never, ever know. Of course, that's gonna weigh on you. Right.

But no one would ever know that. But picture it, because obviously you know mom guilt. I feel like I'm not obviously, I'm not a mom, but I know mom guilt. Yeah. I can't imagine that level of mom guilt. Oh, I can't. That's like a them.

That is astronomical. That's beyond. I can't even fathom it., I can't. That's like a them. That is astronomical. That's beyond. I can't even fathom it. I truly can't fathom it. Yeah, it's awful. So the letter that Lori wrote in her camp, we have all three of the letters, and it's really sad. Yeah, thanks a lot.

So her last letter said, dear mom, and because she was one of five kids. Oh wow. Dear mom and dad and Misty and Joe and Chad and Kathy. Oh, we're just getting ready to go to bed. It's 7.45. We're at the beginning of a storm and having a lot of fun. I've met two new friends, Michelle Goose and Denise Milner.

I'm sharing a tent with them. It started raining on the way back from dinner. We're sleeping on cops. I couldn't wait to write. We're all writing letters now because there's hardly hardly anything else to do with love, Laurie. Oh. With love, she's eight. She's like, with love, mother and father.

With love, mother and father. Oh. And like, that's one of the things her parents said was like, that with love, that the end was just like, like, just killed you. So that is Laurie. Laurie, like, sweetheart of sweet, I just want to like eat her up.

My God, I can't. And a baby, eight. So we're also going to talk about nine year old Michelle Heather Goose. She was from Broken Arrow. She was very, very intelligent as well. All three of these girls were very smart, like very intelligent girls. Yeah. That might, maybe that's why they just like gravitated towards each other.

Yeah. She loved to read. She was very close with her family and her sibling who was an older brother, Mike. He was 13. She was shy. Like she didn't, she wasn't very outgoing, but she was so sweet.

And she became very like, she was most herself when she was playing soccer or doing the Girl Scout. She was really into it. OK. Michelle had attended Camp Scott the year before. Oh, wow. So she had already done this. She's come a little more comfortable.

So her letter is to her aunt Karen. Oh. And it says, dear aunt Karen, how are you? I am fine. I'm running from camp. We can't go outside because it is storming. Me and my tent mates are the last tent in our unit. My tent mates are Denise Milner and Laurie Farmer.

My room is in shades of purple. Love Michelle. My bedroom. Oh, her bedroom's purple. She's like, by the way, my bedroom's purple is pretty sweet. It's just so innocent. It really is. So she was also, so she was known as being very active

and athletic. Like I said, she loves soccer. Yeah. She also really loved raising plants. Her favorite being her African violets. Oh, she took very good care. Meanwhile, I didn't even know what a lotus was. I'm in it.

Yeah, you know, I'm saying. So the Lucas, you know, the Lucas plant. She actually asked people before she left to take care of her African violets. Oh, that was her main concern. Yeah, it kills me. Sweetie. And we're gonna go into these poor parents how they found out what happened to them

because each of them have a story about that and I'll get into that in a minute. But she wanted to be a math teacher like her mother. Oh. Again, super excited about her purple bedroom. And Michelle was going to be turning 10 on the 22nd. And her mother had bought her a new bike that she had desperately wanted.

Oh, yeah. Thank you for leaving me with that. And Lori, I forgot to mention, Lori was going to be turning nine on the 19th. So their burgers were super close. And Lori's family was planning to come and surprise her for her birthday. Oh my God.

Now, the next one we're gonna talk about is the one that truly breaks my heart. This is 10-year-old Doris Denise Milner of Tulsa. Her mother is Betty. Betty now says she's never visited Denise's grave because she literally can't. Like she was like, I can't bring myself to go there. I don't know how people do.

Which it's you. I can't even fathom. She said that her... So her father was Walter Milner and he was a police officer in Tulsa. Oh, wow. He was actually awarded a medal of valor for his role in stopping a robbery suspect in 1996.

Wow. He died of a heart attack at 53 in 1997. Oh, jeez. He's buried next to his daughter. Oh. She was also a very smart little girl. Like I said, her teachers and principals said she was one of the kindest and sweetest little girls

you would ever meet. She had saved her money by selling Girl Scout cookies to go to this camp. Wow. Yeah. In fourth grade, she got an award for having the best grades in her class. Oh.

She taught herself to read him right at four years old. Jesus Christ. She loved learning. She devoured books. She also loved dancing and gymnastics. She was just like a cool little girl. Yeah, all five of them just sound like the coolest little things. She had one little sister who was five at the time

and her and Denise were inseparable. Denise loved her. Like, took care of her. The one thing that she was most upset about was she didn't want to leave her little sister. Oh! Yeah. I know. It really breaks your heart.

Because I don't just don't do it. And so, when she was saving up to go to this camp, she had saved up after selling the cookies, and she had done this with a few friends. And at the last second, the friends backed out. Oh, she was. So she suddenly got very anxious about going, and she was not psyched to go. Yeah, because she was very excited, and then like, I love about this.

When your friends decided not to go, we've all had something similar like that. Exactly. Especially when you're little too. Yeah, that's the thing. So, so her mom said in one of the articles I found about it, she said, but I convinced her that she should go and try it, that it would help her to be more independent and that if she didn't like it, all she had to do was call and we would come and get her. Oh my god. Her letter that she wrote was the one that breaks my heart. Dear mom, I don't like camp. It's awful.

The first day it rained. I have three new friends, though, named Glenda, Lori, and Michelle. Michelle and Lori are my roommates. Mom, I don't want to stay at camp for two weeks. I want to come home and see Cassie and everybody. You're loving child Denise Milner. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. So. and see Cassie and everybody. You're loving child Denise Milner. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So, in fact, oh my God, I wish that she could have told the counselor and they could have called the mom that night. Well, no, just wait. No, no, no. So when Denise got on the bus to go to camp initially, she like broke down, like got upset. And a counselor, it was like a counselor in training

She was only 15. I think she was a previous camper. Yeah, she was helping out the older counselor So she wasn't like a counselor. They didn't leave the kids with the CIT. Her name was Michelle Hoffman And she testified that she saw this like saw her breaking down Approached her and her mother and was like I will sit with you. I like take care of you. Don't worry about it. So she sat with her on the bus and she comforted her. And she said she told her how fun it was gonna be and all that good stuff.

And she said she calmed her down a little bit. But before they had taken off on the bus, her mom, Denise's mom came on the bus. Yes. And was like, can you please make sure that if Denise wants to call me, that you make sure she can call me. Oh, that's awesome.

Please help her call me. Right. So she was like, absolutely, we will. Like, no problem. So she was like, if, and she told her, if you want to come home, I will come and get you. But I want you to try it. Yeah. Which is a smart thing to do as a parent.

Yeah. And that must be the most difficult thing to do. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I couldn't do it. I know you couldn't do it. But I think it is the smart thing to do in most circumstances is to be like just give it a try. And if you don't like it. And it's like you've made a commitment, you've worked hard to get there, let's give it a shot. It's like when you want to do dance and then you decide you don't want to. And your mom is like stick with it. Let's try to stick with it. You don't want to quit stuff. So she was like

just give it a try. If you don't like it, I will happily come and get you, which is a good haunting now. So Michelle said that she had calmed her down and she was like, she seemed like she was like acclimating a bit better that night. I don't think she was super psyched, but I think she was just homesick. Well, she made friends. Yeah, and she was just homesick. So after they ate in the dining hall at 6 p.m., 536, then they were told to write the letters in the tent, which we talked about.

And then they did have, which I'm like, oh my god, they had a story time with all of them, gave them some snacks, and then they were going back to the tents for bedtime. Now apparently, according to one of the other counselors, D. Elder, she said that Denise got upset and was suddenly like, can I call my mom? And this was that night like right before bedtime. So D said like she comforted her and was like, why don't you call her in the morning? Just give it a, she'd give it a night and she was like, okay, so she convinced her. And at first I was like, what the fuck, D, let her call on.

I know I'm mad, but I understand that like, I think they are shown, because you know that doesn't make it better. Calling your mom makes it worse, because you're like, I wanna see you. You know what I mean right now? I wanna get you, like I know if I talk to my mom, it always like made it worse.

It's like you, it's completely, I miss you. And so I think that counselors, and I might be wrong counselors can tell me, they are probably told to first line of defense, try to convince the kid to stick it out before they just immediately let them call home. Well, because you know, eventually they are like, in most cases, that eventually they're going to acclimate and have a great time. Nine times at the end of this camp, be like, oh, I'm so happy I stayed. And it's like, if they wake up in the morning and they say I'm still upset and I want to call her, I'll absolutely go.

So I can't fault any of them for that. That just, that must be hard. I couldn't do it. Like good for those counselors having to, well, you can do that. So step one now. Step one now. But I was that kid who would have been a fucking mess.

Like I did not like leaving my parents. I never wanted to go away to camp. I would like, I went to a softball camp once. Like, 40 minutes away from my house. I called my mom the first night. And it was like, I can't stay here. And I was supposed to stay there for like a week and I was like, no, I just couldn't do it.

And I was like, so I was a total like home body. I did not like it. So I feel Denise on like that just breaks my heart that she felt that way and how it ended. It was just a confirmation of every greatest irrational fear that you have in that situation, which is I want my parents something bad is gonna happen. I'm scared.

I wonder if she had some kind of like feeling. You wonder. Like if she had a kind of like feeling. You wonder. If she had a gut feeling, that's something bad, and she couldn't pinpoint it, but she was like, I wanna get the fuck out of here. Think about all the times you hear people, like even 9-11 is the first thing that comes to mind people that we're supposed to get

on that plane, where like for some reason, I just didn't want to, like it felt wrong. You know, sometimes people just know. And I think with kids, it's a feeling, but they can't really pinpoint it. So maybe she was just like, I don't like this. I'm not feeling good about this. Some things off and I want to call my mom

and her poor mother hearing that must shatter you. I can't even bat them. So yeah, I told you this is a rough one. I love kids so much. This is really hard. This is a really rough one. It's a really rough one. But I think it's one rough one. I love kids so much. This is really this is a really rough one It's a really rough one But I think it's one that needs to be told mainly one to like because they need justice

Because it's unsolved this is unsolved and it's infuriating and I want them to solve this shit I just want to go to your house after this and like snuggle with the girls just hug the girls. I know So lights out was technically between like 10 and 10 30 where they're like, all right guys, you got to calm down and go to sleep. It's pretty late. They never went to sleep. No. Right then, you know, like, and it's the first night. Anytime you write like a sleep over or anything, like that's not going to be it.

No. So they were all like giggling, telling, you know, probably like spooky stories and all that. Yeah. So around 12.30 a.m. which is technically June 13th. A counselor, Carla, I think it's white, Carla Willite, Willite, that's what it is, Carla Willite. These counselors are like between 18 and 20 years old. So they're older, enough that young to be taken care of 140 kids.

Young. Very young, but older, like not a 15-year-old. Yeah, like you feel a little better. Yeah, like hopefully, you know. I don't want a 20-year-old. Yeah, like, you feel a little better. Yeah, like, hopefully, you know, I don't want a 20-year-old in charge of any of my children for two weeks. No, I'm sorry. But I wouldn't, this just isn't my scene at all.

So Carla will I woke up and she heard, you know, some of the girls were laughing and they seemed like they were coming from like the bathroom. So she was like, I gotta go get them. Yeah. So she got up, they were, they were just like giggling in the bathroom together, like just very little girls. So and it wasn't them, it was like some other, yeah, some other campers.

And so she, you know, brought them back to their tent by a tent, I believe it was tent technically one. So she had to bring them all the way back to tent one. Yep. She was like, guys, you gotta go to sleep. Go back to sleep. So 1.30 a.m. Carla and the other counselor D wake up and hear more girls giggling in tent four. So they're like, fuck, I can go to sleep. So, 1.30 a.m. Carla and the other counselor D wake up and hear more girls giggling in 10-4.

So, they're like, fuck, and go to sleep. Which I'm sure this is a very regular night. Oh, yeah. At this point, you're constantly waking up all night, probably. Yeah. So, Carla goes to that 10 and as she's walking to the 10, she hears this weird sound from the perimeter, like the forest. Fuck. And she's like that. And when she explains it, you can tell like she has, she's from the perimeter, like the forest.

And she's like that. And when she explains it, you can tell, she's like, this was not an animal. That was what the fuck was that? That was my ice maker. That was really good timing. You can tell, Karla was like, it was like a nice maker. It's weird.

No, it was a low guttural moaning sound, she said. Across between a frog and a bull frog and something else, it was a guttural moan. Do you remember the bull frogs in Maine? I hate it. I hate it. I used to have a house in Maine when I looked with my life donor and holy shit.

Holy shit. That place was so creepy and the frogs at night sound like they're screaming. Yeah, it sounds like people screaming. It literally sounds like a bunch of murderies. And that's the thing, it's like these counselors, a lot of them were campers at one point. They've all done this, they've all been trained in this.

So for her to be like, that's not an animal. Like, I don't know what that is. That means bad news for animals. So she was like, it was a little weird. So she shone the flashlight over there and then it just stopped. Oh, she was like, okay. But she said she heard it like on and off

throughout the night. So she was like, what the fuck? And she said, she also ended up seeing a very dim light in the forest. It looked like dim and small and she was like, what the fuck was that? Like a lantern or something? Yeah, so she was like, what's that? Like a lantern or something? Yeah, so she was like, what is that?

And so she shone her light at it and it turned off. Fuck that. And she was getting freaked out herself and she's like, I think I'm just like, like seeing shit and like being, I don't know. So she ends up in that position. Yeah, and you're in charge of all these kids. So she tells the girls in the kid,

like, you know, you gotta require it and then she rushes back to her tent because she's like I don't want to be out here. I don't want to like blame her for anything but she should have checked on all the tents. Yes well there's nothing that says that each time they checked on each one but she very well could have it's just not listed and yeah listed in there. I hope she did. I hope she did. But to be honest she probably didn't because there was a point where something really bad happened and she had no idea. So during this time, also, while everyone's sleeping, there were items stolen from the tents. Somebody was

reaching in and taking things. I'm sorry. Yeah. What? Because they were missing like purses, like a ton of, a lot of eyeglasses were stolen, which will come back later. So they hang onto that little nugget that like eyeglasses were taken. And then there comes in another report, some other counselor and some other campers saw that dim light in the woods and it was near the Kioa unit.

Uh-huh. So they're like this is weird and it's not like a flashlight, flashlight, it was dim. So they were like, what is that? Now I'm picturing like those candles that you put in your Windows their holidays. I think it was kind of like that. Yeah, or like a flashlight that somebody had put something over Then campers heard screaming. Oh, no and And then campers heard screaming. Oh no. And people apparently ignored this because kids

and giggling and screaming. I mean, you know my kids, they scream all the time. Oh my God. And they taught the youngest how to scream. Like, yeah. So anybody listening would think that they were in like great peril, but they're just running around. But they're just living.

Yeah, they're just literally sitting there screaming at each other. So I'm sure these kids were probably doing the same thing all night, which it's like, sure. But like maybe go check. Yeah, I don't know. Just check. There's no harm in over checking, I feel.

I would be in these tents every 10 minutes. Which like honestly, I feel like they should have had some kind of system where you check every like, her power. I think there should have been shifts done that every half hour someone has to wake their ass up and they have to walk to every tent, make sure everybody's okay, go to sleep, next one does it in the next half hour.

Right. I mean, you're a camp counselor, it's not supposed to be, it's a job. Yeah, you're not like having the most fun. So get up, go do it. Yeah, I think that should definitely be a thing. So get up. So, yeah, so then two AM rules around and the other unit near the Kioa unit heard Another like screamy kind of voice and then they reported that they heard a girl and this is really gonna hurt

Say scream mama mama. Oh nope again Later they would say that the you know, it's always loud, especially the first night, kids are giggling and screaming, but I'm sorry. Yelling mama though. Mama.

I don't care if the kids sleeping and saying it in their sleep, go check. Mm-hmm. I mean, you're, some kids yelling mama. Right. That's, to me that would be, I'd be, so, I'd be there quicker than I could blink. Yeah, that's like a warning.

That should be instinct. Yeah, go take care of that person. Yeah. That should set off alarm bells. Again, I don't know. I'm not blaming these counselors because again, they were 18 to 20 year olds. No, but. Wade not equipped to deal with this shit.

And on top of it, who I am blaming is the camp. Yeah. Because the camp directors and the people running this shit, and on top of it, who I am blaming is the camp. Yeah. Because the camp directors and the people running this shit did not prepare these counselors for shit by the way. Right, right. Because they had a meeting beforehand, obviously, where they were told security measures and all that. But were there security measures?

Which they were none. Clearly not. And they basically were just told, if you see anybody an intruder in the woods or anything, tell them it's private property. Okay, do you think think murder gives a fuck? I'm pretty sure they know. You shouldn't, and it's like they weren't taught to deal

with like what if somebody comes in a taxa kid? What do I do? Like can we have pepper spray? You should at the very least. And it's like most people that I read would say like, well no one could have planned for this, of course not. But that's why you have the end of the world apocalyptic plan.

Well, there's also everything falls to shit. This is what you do. It sounds like there was like virtually no precaution here. Yeah. Like, at all, like there needs to be some kind of precaution. These, yeah, they needed to, the whole thing was set up poorly. The fact that these counselors were in their own tent away from all the other kids. Yeah, I hate that.

But they couldn't even see the kids, it's like nothing made sense. This doesn't make sense, it's not safe. No, it's not safe. No. In later, one of the parents of one of the victims said if they had seen the tent, that their kid was gonna sleep in,

they would have never allowed their kids to check. Oh, I believe that. I wouldn't sleep in that, fuck that. No. So, like you just had anybody reaching, can just reach right the front. Reaching the front, no. It's just flapped.

No. Like there's nothing. No. Yeah. So, during the same night in the Kiyowa unit, which is the unit the three victims were in, in tent number six, I believe. One of the girls said she woke up in the middle of the night to a light, flashlight shining in and somebody like opened the flap. And she said when she sat up and looked, it was clearly a man standing there with a flashlight flashed at her. And she said they sat there and stared at them and then they put the flood, the flap down and walked away towards the last tense.

What? So I don't know what that's about. I don't know, like to me, that's really creepy. And they said it was very much of like a big male. That was so, and they said it flashed in. All the counselors said we did not do that. That was not us. That's terrifying.

So to me, that was the killer. And here, okay, so this is just like my true crime mind being like fucked up. I wonder if he like saw those girls and were like, they're older, like no thanks. Yeah, I wonder if, who knows why these ones were chosen? To me, it seems like they were chosen because they were the last ones for this to away.

For this to away. But it's weird that he just like looked at those girls and I was like, nah. Yeah, and it could be because he shown the flashlight in there and she woke up. Yeah. Because what we'll see is it seems like at least two out of the three of the victims were, you know,

bludgeoned in their sleep. Oh, basically. So I don't think they were looking for pew. They didn't want kids screaming, I think. They wanted silence. Now, 6am, the next morning, so like, it's weird night, whatever. Yeah, that was really fucking weird night.

6am, Carla wakes up, the counselor, and she's like, I'm going to be the first one to get to the showers. The showers were actually the thing that was really blocking the view to the last tent, like, the whole building was blocking it. So there was no way they could see that. So they were like behind a building? Yeah, it's like wraps around. It's like the shower is in the middle.

And then the tent's kind of wrapped around in a semicircle around the shower, extending out from the counselor's tent. Oh, okay. So there's was kind of wrapped around the back of that building. You couldn't see them, that's fucked up. Yeah, totally obstructed.

No way. So this is 6am, Carly gets up. Yeah, totally obstructed. No way. So this is 6am. Carly gets up. She's on her way to the shower. And as she's walking, she notices some sleeping bags near the roadside. And it was like, she's like, they're tense. And she's like, what is going on? So she's like, that's weird. So she's like, I should go see if somebody like dropped their stuff when they were coming in or what. So this one, now they were approximately 150 yards from the last tent. So these sleeping bags, which were the victim sleeping bags, were 150 yards from their tent. Yeah. And past to the counselor's tent. Yeah. So whoever did

this, walked to them past the counselor's tent. Yeah, that's not good. Now when she approaches the sleeping bags, she sees the battered body of Denise Milner. Oh. On top of one of them. She is not in good shape. She is nude from the waist down. Oh, no. Her night shirt had been pulled up.

Her hands were bound behind her back with tape and cord. What? She had been strangled with cord, which was still around her neck. She had also been bludgeoned in the face. There were also two other sleeping bags near her body, but they were both zipped up completely. Oh, God. Now, before she does anything, Carla runs back to the counselor's tent

and wakes Dee and the other counselor, Susan Ewing, to have them check all the other 10s. Like all the 10s. Yeah. Because they don't know at first they'll include the fuck is this. I don't even know like go check to see who's missing. So they run and they check all the 10s.

They see that the girls are missing in the last 10. So Carla then goes and gets the nurse because she didn't touch the body. She was like, I don't know what's going on. Runs and gets the nurse and is like, somebody is there's a medical event. I don't know what's going on. Runs and gets the nurse and is like, somebody is, there's a medical event. I don't know what's going on. Here it is. Go find it. So the nurse runs towards Denise. And while that's happening, she runs, Carla then runs to the camp director's home, which is very nearby. It's like right on the campus and tells her what's going on. This is Barbara Day

and her husband Richard. They both come out to the scene. The nurse immediately informs them, Denise is very dead. Richard attempts to move one of the other sleeping bags because they didn't know at this point what was going on. Yeah. Discovered there's something very heavy in both of them. So Richard then takes the third, this just like hurt my soul.

Richard took the third sleeping bag that Denise was on top of and actually placed it over her. So no one would see her naked lower half. And he said he was like, I just wanted her to like maintain her nittyy. The youngest. She's the oldest. Sorry. Okay. She was the 10 year old. But I mean, she's fucking 10. Denise is the one who didn't want to come to camp. I wanted to call her mother. Yeah. So Richard, which I was like good for him, like trying to maintain her dignity, not awesome for crime scene, but like, I would do the same thing.

But I can't say I wouldn't do same thing. For my heart, sure. Yeah, that gave me a little light. Even knowing all that I know, I feel like I would have to. It's like an innate feeling. And I feel like that's like a, because they were also had a child, so I feel like that's a very paternal, paternal, paternal, yeah.

So the police come, they open the bags and inside of the two bags that were zipped up is the body of Lori Farmer and the body of Michelle Guzai. They had both died of blunt force trauma to the back of the head. They think that they were struck while they were sleeping. Later it was determined that they had been bludgeoned and both killed inside the tent because of the massive amounts of blood they found in the tent. Near their beds and spattered on the canvas walls around their beds, Denise, they think, was taken into the woods alive and then murdered.

What? She was on top of the sleeping bag. The other two were likely carried out into the woods in their sleeping bags. They think that she was walked out there, Denise, like fully with it awake alive. We'll go past the counselor's tent. And what happened, and we'll find out why nobody heard her or anything like that, were the other two bound like she was? So Michelle was slightly bound.

Her arms were bound to the sides of her. Almost in a hog tie position. Lori was not bound. Okay. Michelle, yeah, so it's strange. She was bound with the same cord to the sides of her, not in the back, not in the front. It was a weird hog-tie thing.

That's strange. They did find out later that Denise and Michelle were raped. Oh, my God. Seaman evidence was found during autopsy, but Lori was inconclusive, and it's possible she was just killed immediately, they think. She also bore very little like outward injuries to her. The other two were much more gruesome and much more like a pair. So maybe like, who was the middle one again, sorry?

Michelle. Michelle, maybe she like woke up in the middle of it. Yeah, they think that Michelle was killed second. They definitely think Laurie was killed first. Michelle was killed second. Totally a nice Denise. All three girls were sexually assaulted. Yeah.

Were molested, but Denise and Michelle were the ones that were actually raped. They were the ones that they found semen. That's sick. Yeah. On scene among other things, they found beer bottles and a crowbar that could have been used, but because they said their injuries were so extensive, especially the other two. Right. But again, 77, what are you going to do with it? Beer bottles.

Yeah. The thought of that being used. Yeah. Michelle was, like I said, was found with the same cord that was wrapped around Denise, was wrapped around her arms. Denise was killed by a sphixiation, likely strangulation with the ligature, although she did have bludgeoning to her face, but that's not what killed her. And she had a fabric gag stuffed in her mouth.

Oh. And the gag was like sewn, like a handmade gag. What? So this first thing had planned this out like a lot. What? Uh, yeah. That is sick. Mm-hmm.

So she was likely... There was also, I read in some reports that she was also blindfolded. Oh, no. So she was likely walked out was also, I read in some reports that she was also blindfolded. Oh, no. So she was likely walked out there with a gag in her mouth with her hands behind her back. Potentially blindfolded. Potentially blindfolded, and that's why no one could hear her.

For blindfolding and gagging is another level. It's not all senses. It's like, it stresses me out. So Officer Harold Berry was the first officer on scene, and he was there quickly because he actually lived very close by. Thank God. He made it, he tried to corden off that scene as best he could, he like really went for it, Sheriff Pete Weaver arrived very quickly after Harold. It was determined immediately that Denise was the last killed obviously and that she was definitely more recently killed than

the other two by like a good amount. Interesting. And she was kept alive a little longer. Denise had a body temp of around 70 degrees Fahrenheit. And Lori and Michelle had already begun to show going to rigor. So they were definitely killed before her. Investigators said Lori, in particular, looked like she was sleeping and could just wake up. Oh my god. They said her injuries, like I said, were not very obvious. It was to the back of her head.

That was so horrible. They said horrible to see, because for some reason, even when you know that somebody's dead, I feel like they probably had hope, like, oh, she's waking up. And just this little angelic baby face, sleeping. Sleeping, you're old. Like, think of, oh, don't think of that. Yeah, I was gonna say, don't think of anything. Sorry.

But the other two had much more apparent injuries and we're like, we're not look more gruesome. Peaceful. Yeah, so near the bodies, investigators also found a big red six volt flashlight. And the one with like those ones with the handles, like the big like bucket ones. And this thing had a weird cover over the lens.

Like, and the lens had a pinhole cut into it. Oh, that's weird. So that it would cast a very dim light. Yeah. Like the one people said they saw in the woods. So this person was clearly fucking lurking around and count the people had seen him. Yeah, that's weird as well. Yeah. also inside the flashlight, they later discovered that there was like wadded up newspaper that was in there to keep the battery connected. Oh, and also sometimes like jiggles and you can hear it.

Yeah, that's it. So it's like, yeah, so they would put that in there to keep it in place. They found in, that's gonna come back later. So just remember that little newspaper. There was also glasses, newspaper. There you go. So there's also a partial

role of black electrical tape, which I grew up with electrical tape. It's my house everywhere because my dad's an electrician and so is my brother. One time Alina and her brother, my uncle, the electrical tape, we did. We did. We did. I was the youngest. You know, sibling things. There was also the cord that was found around two of the girls, a pair of glasses, a bloody, and then inside the tent was bloody shoe and boot prints. OK. So they were already like, what the fuck? And imagine working this scene.

No. No way. No. And there's pictures, like not gruesome pictures or anything, you can't see them. But you can see the scene and you can see like the office are standing over the scene. And they just look like, like not gruesome pictures, or anything you can't see them, but you can see the scene, and you can see like the office are standing over the scene, and they just look like most of them

are just standing there with their head down, like what the fuck. Also imagine being a little girl in the tent, like imagine being 10-6. Well, that's the other thing. So immediately, they'll have to go home. We have to close this down, and they have to go home,

but they were like, we can't tell any of the campers. They can't know. No. Which we'll get into. So the autopsy also later determined that, which this is strange, because it's like, people are like, how did they do three girls, like one person?

Yeah. Because it's multiple people. And then seeing the boot prints and the sneaker prints in there, in the tent, kind of leads you to believe this more than one. Because we're the sneaker prints in there in the tent. Kind of leads you to believe this more than one because we're the sneaker prints like fold like adult shoes. That's what they so some of them were found to be adult shoes like seven and a half, you know what I mean? Like actual adult shoes and the boot print was like a military boot print. Yeah, but there was also a lot of contamination of the scene and some of the like federal officers that came in here

actually accidentally left a pom print in the scene and shit. How the fuck do you ask? You're a federal officer and you accidentally leave a print. It was pretty botched scene at some point. It's not good. Come on. You're dealing with a triple homicide of the chile. And it looks like they tried initially to keep this contained and then it just all fell

apart. Right. So the autopsy later determined that weapons were used on the girls with someone using their left hand and right hand. So it's either that somebody switched hands or it's somebody who's left handed and somebody who's right handed. That's true.

I mean, if you think about one person, though, you're obviously your arm's going to get fucking tired. So maybe you're switching. Yeah. And then also though, there were different knots in some of the... Not so that can either be someone switching it up or it can be different people tying them. This is like a weird thing to say, but think of like switching hand.

It would be hot. Like I couldn't use a hammer with my left hand. No, my left hand would not get good. I couldn't. Yeah. So like we were just talking about the camp immediately closed because they were like holy shit. Right. But they tell the parent they didn't tell any of the campers what they told the parents was an accident happened. Yeah, that's one way to put it. Yes, so they busted them from camp Scott to Tulsa Girl Scout

Magic Empire Council headquarters, which is like the place that runs the Girl Scout thing. Magic Ampire. Magic Ampire. Meanwhile, they called the parents, said there was an accident. They did tell these three parents that their children died in an accident. And then when they said, what, what? They said, nothing else. Okay. Can't tell you anything. You have to, though, that's their parents. So now all these other parents, though, are just being told there's an accident and girls have died, but they're not telling them who.

So these other parents don't know are showing up to pick their kids up at this place? Fucking panicking being like, is my child there? Like what is going on? It's just fucking crazy. What the fuck? Yeah, not knowing who was the one in the accident. So in the accident. Yeah. So at 11.40, it wasn't until like 11.

PM that Richard Guse, who's Michelle's father, was called at work by his wife, George Ann, who told him Michelle was dead, but she had no idea how, like, didn't know anything about it. Cause it, like, I mean, you're at it, like a summer girls' camp, it's like, you're thinking drowned. And obviously no matter what your child's dead, that's horrific. Yeah.

But you don't know that your child has been murdered brutally. And that's the thing that kills me. And what kills me even further is, you will find out in a second, the way they did find out is shameful. Well, because that, think of it, that's like two hits. Yeah. Like, oh, first, you think your kid died,

and you're just, you're thinking it's an accident. You're grieving, you're an accident. And then you get told they were brutally murdered. That's a completely different hit from a totally different size. Exactly. That's like, once, when it's an accident, it's bad enough. That's a whole different thing of a way. Your child died

at their first day of summer camp. Then to hear that they were raped and murdered. What? Like you're already trying to figure out what the fuck happened and then you get that. Well, then Lori Farmers parents were not able to be contacted initially because they were both at work. And so the camp officials used their emergency contact

who was a family friend. So it was the family friend who had to call and tell them like Lori died. And they were like, what do you mean? And she was like, it's an accident, I don't know. And they were like, put that on somebody else, Jesus. Yeah. So Bonnie Brewster, who was a friend of the farmer family,

she was also the executive director of the Magic Empire Council. She refused to tell this family what had happened to Lori and wouldn't even tell them what she had for dinner that night. Like wouldn't give them any information. These poor people waited hours and hours and hours. Why couldn't they say what she had for dinner? And in one of the things Laurie's father is quoted as it was how he found out it was from the executive director of the Girl Scouts. I found out later that we were the

third people they called. First they called their insurance company. Second their attorney then they called us. What a bunch of shit stains. Fuckers. Fuckers called their fucking insurance company, and then in a attorney, they covered their own houses. Eight-year-old babies' parents, wow. To tell them that under their fucking watch, under their janky ass operation, their daughter was brutally murdered

and no one fucking knew about it. Like all your insurance company first? Are you saying to me? Are you one of them? Are you human? Are you human? You want to know how these parents found out that their children were murdered? How? The news.

The news. All of them saw it on the fucking news. Because this camp and these directors and these fuckers wouldn't tell them shit. And they had to find out on the fucking news. Because this camp and these directors and these fuckers wouldn't tell them shit. And they had to find out on the fucking news, the media found out before the next of kin. That's insane to me.

When that happens, it's so fucked up. That is insane. We were talking about the Lauren Gettings case and her father found out through like her uncle. Yeah, because of the media. Wow, that's so fucked. It is so big. How do you sit media. Wow, that's so fucked. It is so being... How do you sit there?

Like obviously that I'm sorry. Obviously that person didn't have kids or like care about a kid at all because how do you sit there and call your insurance company and your attorney and then be like, oh, well, I guess next I have to call their parents. Yeah, I guess I should call the parents

of this little baby. Like obviously you don't want to, I get that, but... But that's your first call. What? Like, fuck the insurance, fuck the attorney, call the parents and let them start the grieving. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, why didn't the police contact the migrant?

It's insane. There's none of that makes sense. The whole thing is insane. None of that makes any sense. The entire thing is insane. Obviously, it's hard because I'm sure nothing like this that ever happened before. Of course not.

But what? And that's the only thing that you can grip on it too, is like I'm sure it was fucking pandemonium and no one knew what to do. Because again, you do not think that girl scouts are gonna be brutally murdered on their first day of camp. That's never happened. So it's like, of course this is gonna be fucked up,

but use the thing between, I'm gonna say something my dad always always says use the thing between your ears Grey matter use the grey matter between your ears. Can I ask? We'll ruin the story if I ask if the camp opened up the next year No, we'll ruin the story that camp closed down and never opened up again Okay, I'm happy to get and some people were upset about it But to those people I say what the actual fuck I would go ahead and send them a heavy fuck. I also say, who in their right mind would send their kid

to a camp after this? Who was that? This camp after this? Parents were mad. The people will HDA and Florence there. Their child, I think their son took over the whole thing after them, and I think it should have been opened up. It's a tragedy.

You feel. That was an open up.. Like it's a tragedy. You feel. That was an open up. Oh, that's a tragedy. You would feel safe having kids there. Also, like, kids eventually watch the news. Like they're gonna hear their parents talking. But you think any fucking kid would wanna come there ever again?

And it's like, yeah, honey. You know the shake you're gonna be dealing with at midnight? That's, and it's like, yeah, honey. I know like you just saw that three girls were raped and murdered at their camp. But like, suck it up, Buttercup. Just go and give it a try. When it went, no.

No, you know what he was mad about and I had no problem saying it, he lost money. And I don't give a fuck. Yeah, this is money. This was not thinking of human being or anything else. People are so fucked. Sorry, we just got, I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry, I'm fucking pissed.

Sorry, I'm not sorry. And the farmer family still feels that Girl Scout Council should absolutely be held accountable Safety and what happened to them there was a lawsuit later which we're gonna get into in part two That is infuriating they the fire. I'm sure they didn't want it just because you said it's a Period I'm pissed so yeah, it's just so frustrating. So so now they're they're just trying to now it's like a manhunt Who the hell did this they're trying to figure out it's like a manhunt. Who the hell did this? They're trying to figure out who did this.

June 14th, so the next day, a camper named Wilma Tennant said that she was the one who woke up and she heard screams and she said, she told a counselor, and that the counselor told her everything's fine, go back to sleep. No, everything's not fine. A girl is in the middle of the woods dying. Exactly.

On that same day, they actually took the wooden platform from the tent, and they actually airlifted it to a crime lab. Wow. So they could test everything. There was a ton of blood on the floor, but it looked like someone had wiped it up or attempted to wipe it up. According to Girl Scout Murders.com, which I suggest you go to that website, they have

every bit of information you need about this. Like, you could get lost for hours. Is that just this case? Or were there more girls' armors? Just this case, yeah. Just this case. It's a little misleading. It looked like they had used towels and also had used the sheets off the beds.

The sheets were found crumpled up in the sleeping bag. So whoever did this stuck around and cleaned up all of it? Trying to wipe it up. That's weird. Yeah. They also found that tennis shoe and boot print in there so they wanted to do further testing on it. So I just want to put out there, because already

we're like, what the fuck camp? Scott, what is going on? Yeah, fuck you. Well, let me tell you a couple things that happened at this camp before. Like in years previous. Yeah, and very close, like, weeks previous. Oh my god. That no-o-o-o was better than you.

I'm gonna have to walk away. So on the Saturday before the camp opened, before this one opened, the camp director's husband Richard came across a stranger walking around the camp and he was carrying a clear plastic jug. And he was just like, this is private property. Okay. But like, nothing else was done about it. Awesome. That's probably fun.

So there was a camp ranger named Ben Woodward. He was like one of the only males on the campground. He was also a caretaker. He was like a part-time counselor, part-time caretaker. Sure. He had found right before the, a slashed tent flap. And he said there was like a four to five square inch section that was removed.

That somebody had clearly removed. That's called a fucking warning sign. And he said it was sometime in the hours before all of these girls arrived on that Sunday. That's a warning sign. That's like, hi, I'm about to fuck shit up. Oh yeah. Because I'm crazy. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. And then the week before this opening, two counselors said they were followed back to their tents by someone with a flashlight in the woods, and another counselor saw a man literally outside of her tent. And then counselor Michelle Hoffman, the 15-year-old, she said that somebody had brought like donuts in, I think it was in during the like session that they were doing right before the camp open where they like told their whole thing. Like protocol, whatever.

Somebody brought donuts in a box that the donuts were taken out of the box and somebody had left a note in the box. That said. And it said she testified to this. It said in capital letters, it was printed, we are on a mission to kill three girls in tent one. And it was signed the killer or something like that. What?

Yep. And you opened up the camp. Yep. And Michelle Hoffman said the note scared the shit out of her. So she brought it to the counselors. But the Barbara Olmstead, the coordinator of the spring Spring session said it's probably just a prank and she threw the note away. Hi, and this all happened. What a cunt. And when this all happened, they were like, where's that note?

And she was like, I tossed it. Why would you like roll that away? You had it in literal evidence at this point. You're like idiot. Like are you kidding me? She testified that she said when they, and this is astounding to me. She was like, well, when she gave me that note, and the counselors gave me the note to like tell me that this had happened. They didn't tell me that a tent had also been ransacked. I don't give a fuck, I don't think you need any more context

other than we're gonna kill little kids in tent one, you dumb asshole. That's what, because I'm like, are you dumb? Okay, okay, babs, okay. What? Let me just, let me attempt to get into that fucking abyss that you call a cranium

and just think about this for a second. So a counselor comes to you and she says, hi, hi, there's this letter that was left in a donut box, which like rude, they took the donuts. But it was left in a donut box and it's like, we are literally on a mission to kill three little girls in your camp. And intent one, like we're prepared.

And hearing that, she was like, okay, and, and if she was like, and also, they made a mess in there. What? Like that's when you would lose it. Like the ransacking is the thing that, she didn't tell me what that was. The note is signed the killer and you're like,

you know, well, can you get an extra sleeping bag from the cabin over there? You know what, come back when you have something solid. And then she's like, well, somebody did make a mess in there too. And she's like, well, fuck, we need to call the FBI. What? Like, what? They fed, that is just, that's full of her lasting.

Unbelievable. Yeah. So the same year, April 1st, so this was like, what? Wait, hold on. So obviously, sorry, I totally interrupt you. But obviously, somebody, at least one person, but probably multiple people, are just like, camping out in the woods, waiting for this shit to open,

seeing how fucking jenky this operation is. Oh yeah, because like, why do you think they picked tent one? Of course. They know this whole operation. Yeah. Our enemy is like, were they at that meeting? Like, what is going on? And we'll find out the more shit they find in those woods that people were hanging around waiting for this shit.

Obviously. And then back in April, so like about a month or two before it opened, there was money stolen in the camp by someone. There was a peeping tom reported at like the year before. So this is clearly like a build-up of crazy events. And they have done nothing to secure this place after all these events.

That's what kills me. Yeah, these are all warning signs. Of course they couldn't prevent people being dicks, but when people are dicks and show up and start fucking with shit, you do shit to make it more secure. That's what you're supposed to do. Well, and to me, this is somebody

that's starting off small to be able to start scary a little bit. Scary a little bit more, scary a little bit more. Here is what I'm gonna do, and I think you're too dumb to even stop me. Yeah. And then you are, and then this happens. Of course. And it's fucking explosion.

Exactly. It's insane. Wow. Now June 14th, that same day, like so the day after this all happened, there was a group of campfire girls that were supposed to be showing up into their camp, which was like a different camp, but down the way.

Okay. And they began their summer sessions, and they had to be accompanied by armed guards, but they stayed. What? I'd be like, were there parents told? I'd be like, fuck that shit. They saw it on the news.

If my kid had to, like, wanted to go to this summer camp, and they were like, yeah, so like, we're still gonna have it all set up, and there's gonna be armed guards. I'm sorry. No. That's traumatic in and of itself. Armed guards, yeah. I went to still gonna have it all set up and there's gonna be armed guards. I'm sorry. No. That's traumatic in and of itself. Armed guards, yeah.

I went to camp with an, I had an armed guard assigned to my camp. Exactly. That's exciting. Well, and then camp Garland, which was a Boy Scout camp, was only three miles away from this camp and it stayed open. No. This whole thing is a fuckery. Only 13 parents came to get their kids that day.

I'm sorry, parents. What the fuck is up? Like what? What the fuck is up, Kyle? It was next week. And then June 15th, the next day, is when they brought in some tracker dogs, because they were like, we got to start bringing out the big guns. The media called these dogs, the Wonder Dogs.

They were two German shepherds and one wrought wiler that were specially trained to for like cadaver dogs and like tracking dogs. That's awesome. Their names were Harris Dutch and butts. I love it. I love butts. And they were flown in from Pennsylvania. I'm pretty sure it was boots or something but it looks like butts. So they were able to track where the killer had entered and where they had exited. Yeah. They followed were able to track where the killer had entered and where they had exited. Yeah. They followed a scent.

They determined the killer or killers had walked by the counselor's tent to get where the scent was leading to the victim's tent. So they entered this camp through the front. Right past the counselor's tent, got the girls and then walked them right past the counselor's tent again. Here's the other deal. Why is there not some kind of security guard

at the front of this, like, opera operation. Exactly. Quote operation. This scenario. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. So then three of the counselors were questioned on the 16th. They said that eye glasses and glasses cases were so long. That is just weird. What does that mean? One of these were found, like, along the path that the killer took. So they were like, of course, they were questioning these girls, being like, what the fuck? And they were like, yeah, that was stolen from me. And again, they said that there was a blue denim purse that was stolen from the counselor's

tent, and it was in the Kiyoai unit, and it was done the night of the murders. Because she said she went to bed and that was in her tent. Her tent was there. Yeah. That's terrifying. So a telephone hotline was set up for people to call in. They were hoping that the killer would just call and confess because of like guilt. So they just put it up there to be like just a little shot.

Because I mean, you just killed three little children. Yeah. And the district attorney at the time said sometimes people with deranged minds just want to be caught. So we have to try. I think I'm like the weepy voice killer. Yeah. The Oklahoma governor David Borin on the 21st

said that he would bring in the National Guard to help this, but this Sheriff Weaver said no. Why would you say no? Because he was like, we're fine. You're not. I'm sorry, Sheriff Weaver. Like you've not dealt with something like this before. Like, get the fucking help.

Whenever they refuse help, I'm like, can you just put that fucking ego down for one goddamn second and let the help come in? Especially when it comes to a shit. Child murder. A triple homicide of children and a fucking Girl Scout camp. This is unprecedented. And you're gonna be like,

you get this. Get the fucking hell. No, you don't. So he was like, no, thank you. Stupid. Yeah. It's insane. They ended up questioning five boy scouts at a nearby

at the camp Garland. Because in May, I guess, what was it? This kid who they described as pale and skinny, like a teenager, said he came into the Boy Scout camp while they were camping Yeah, and he just like ate food with them and like didn't speak to anybody pretty weird and then he stole a hatchet a hunting knife and Something like something I think some food and then just left and They were like yeah, and they really did you tell anyone and they were like yeah? and just left.

And they were like, yeah, and they were like, did you tell anyone? And they were like, yeah, didn't even do anything? No. What? Like, okay. So they were like, good, good. That's scary.

So now they're starting to investigate because they're not getting any leads at this point. Just, shit was going down, but we don't know what. That's all. So much it was going into home. And it's like, but there's nothing to latch onto. No. So after, and see, they started investigating,

because again, they have a lot of evidence at the scene, but not a lot they can do with it. Right. It's the problem. So they look into the tape and the rope that was on Denise and on Michelle. Yeah. And they found that this particular tape and cord

had been stolen out of a nearby farmhouse. It was a farmhouse that sat on a 110 acre ranch. It was owned by 51-year-old Jack Schroff. And he said his home was burglarized. There was things stolen from it. And that tape and cord matched part of things that were in his house. So, and then there was also evidence

that a campfire had been set up that night at a pond on the property of the ranch. So somebody was like hanging out waiting. That is so spooky. So of course when they see that ship matches set up in his house, they're like, okay, jack. Well you up to that night.

So he ended up having an alibi. He was like out of town and they confirmed it. He also voluntarily took a lie detector test and he passed. Sorry, Jack. But while this is going on, the newspaper prints his photo in it with the word slayer. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Oh my God. Which he was completely cleared. Right. And they, like, what the fuck? Now we're just going to alienate this man. Holy shit. That's awesome. So then, so now they've totally fucked this guy over like, because then they were like,

whoops, sorry, he's fine. And they like, update it, not a slayer. And now they're like, who could, sorry he's fine. And they like update it not a slayer. And now they're like, who could have done this? Like we don't have any idea. So the chef weaver out of nowhere is like, what about this guy named Jean LaRoy Hart? And they're like, what? And he's like, okay, well this guy,

so it sounds out of nowhere, but what this guy had been was a wanted man who was out on the run for what in this area. So he was on the run, he had been on the run for four years at this point. In the area, he had escaped out of May's county jail. It was under Weaver's watch, which people were like, you seemed to have a special interest in this weird that you just threw that name out. And essentially he had it eluded him for personally for that long.

So he had like a personal vendetta on this guy. It's like the sheriff and the Damien Eccles case. It's exactly like that. It's exactly like that, but what we'll see is like Jean Loroi Hart is an actual piece of shit. So it actually had some. Even if he got this pinned on him wrongly, like I wouldn't want it done for the justice for the girls,

but like we can pin the world's problems on Jean Lourigh Hart. He's an actual piece of shit. And he, well, at least they were hopefully able to get him back in a jail of… Exactly. So he had been imprisoned, because in 1966, he kidnapped two 19-year-old pregnant women in Tulsa. Through them in his trunk, drove them out to the woods in Locust Grove. Locust Grove. The area bound them and raped them both.

Raped and satamized two pregnant women. What? See, then used tape and rope, or he used tape and rope for that whole thing. Then he drove them to another place. And while he was driving them, he said that they were both wearing prescription eye glasses. He took both of their eye glasses and used them while he was driving. So he has a weird thing with eyeglasses. Also, why are you going to use somebody else's prescription glasses while you're driving? And just putting it out, stolen eyeglasses? Yeah, that is weird.

The eyeglasses found at the scene. That whole eyeglasses thing is weird. I've never heard of that in another case. And then not alone is bad that he just raped two, it kidnapped and raped two pregnant women. Then he drove them to another place, like a secluded hill in the woods, put duct tape over their mouths and noses,

covered all air holes, covered them with brush, and then just left the woods. So he intended to murder them. He was leaving them so they would die. They escaped because one of them was able to get the thing off of her mouse and was able to like undo her bindings. Jesus. But God. They were able to escape. So he attempted to murder them.

He just failed. That's all. And they said, if you can do that to two pregnant women, two pregnant women. And obviously he was able to subdue two pregnant women. Never mind three little girls. Right. He bludged in two of them before they came to wake up. Right. So they said during the rape, he was making weird guttural noises. Okay. Like the ones heard at the camp that night. Weird, low guttural. They said like animalistic noises. Now this isn't loaded a horrible question, but did the camp concert think that one of the girls was in the woods being raped when she heard that? Is that what people think? I don't think so. a horrible question, but did the camp concert think that one of the girls was in the woods being raped when she heard that? Is that what people think?

I don't think so. I think maybe I don't know if he made his past like a jack-and-off or something because he's probably excited about it. But we don't know. That's weird. Because they think they think they were killed between like 11 p.m. and 6 a.m.

And she heard the gutter oil noises before late. Or like right around that. It. and 6 a.m. and she heard the gutter oil noises before late or like right around that. It was past that time. Okay, so it's a very good possibility. Yeah, that's fucking nice. He was married with a son at the time, by the way. That is always the wild shit to me when they're married and have kids and their wives or partners are like, I had no way of doing it. It's unreal. She divorced him and they never made contact again. I just got that thing going. So he ended up being paroled for that crime? That's interesting. Like, I don't know.

That's my whole fucking issue with attempted murder. It's like, I want it to get away with it. Well, then he committed a few burglaries and home invasions while out on parole. So he got caught again and he was sentenced to 305 years because of the attempted murders, burglaries, home invasions, and then like the rape, the adoption, all of it together.

He escaped twice. How? The first time he was caught super quickly and put back in. Yeah. Then the second time was in 1973, he sawed through the bars of his cell with a hacksaw. Oh, why did he have a hacksaw? Not sure.

Not sure. Oh, okay. Yep. Oh, right. That's probably a bad thing. So Gene's mother actually lives a mile away from Camp Scott, which is interesting. That's weird.

People around the area said they saw a man who looked a lot like Gene LaRoye Hart running from a cave nearby the camp. And he was carrying items that Jack Schroff there said had been stolen from his farmhouse. That's interesting. There was a sketch put together of the suspect, and it does look a lot like Jean La Roy Heart. Oh shit. I'm gonna Google that. It's kind of insane.

So June 22nd, so immediately they're like, oh, this is all seeming to fit together. Right. So June 22nd, two brothers are out hunting in the area. They come by a cave that appears to be a domicile for a human as well. Somebody was living in it. I was terrified. They see some.

He's so scary looking. He is. They see some photos of flashlight cover. Uh, eye glasses. Weird. And a newspaper. This newspaper is the same newspaper that was wadded up in the flashlight

with the body's same date, same edition, same newspaper. Shot the fuck up. So they think heart was living in there. And so, now the photos that they found, this is interesting. When heart was in prison at Granite Reformatory in Eastern Oklahoma from 67 to 69. There was a guard who was also a wedding photographer

on the side, which I was like, wow, get it. A Gemini, like that's a true Gemini. That is a true Gemini. Yeah, I was like, wow, it really is. Well, Hart ended up being able to, like, he had Hart help him develop photos in the prison darkroom, which I was like, they had a dark room, okay? But he helped him do it, not sure why they had a convicted rapist developing photos like

that, but like the world may never know. The way he just like flashed your heads back. I don't know. I don't really know, jazz fans. So these photos in the cave were from those photos that he developed. So in the beginning of this whole thing, you said like there's some pretty solid evidence, but there's like a lot of evidence that's like,

so what I've presented to you right now is a lot of solid evidence. Don't you dare enter this right there. So I've presented a lot of solid evidence. I'll give you up. And this is when the man hunt is like, once they find this cave, they're like, what the fuck this is it?

Well, they find another nearby cave, also that has a bunch of shit in it. So somebody's been like, why is there a weird cave living? Just like weird cave, like rock formations, basically. And then there's another one that's like, I think like an abandoned foundation of a home where like they, there was like underground, like a basement kind of thing where somebody was living.

Oh, wait. They found graffiti on one of these that said, the killer was here, bye bye fools. And it had the date. That is so lame. And it had the date written 77, 6, 17. That's terrifying. Now, what's weird is that was a few days after the murders, so like, whoa. And then on top of that, it's written strange.

Okay. Like the year is written first, which is like a European wave. That is, yeah. Either European, it was the first thing I thought of. Or Spanish, right? Well, like, it's like European or it's also military. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's like a military thing. So that's an interest, because that's just sure it can be somebody who just writes it that way. Yeah. But it is a different, yeah, yeah. Which is, I think that's like a military thing. So that's an intro, because that's just sure it can be somebody who just writes it that way. Yeah. But it is a different, like, cause like, it's not your first American to write it about it.

It's like you usually write it month, day, year. Which like, everybody else is like, why do you do that? And so it's, it's just a strange thing that could point to maybe like some kind of piece of evidence to somebody, but I'm not really sure.

But also like sometimes I feel like older people are like on the 8th of June. Exactly. You know what I mean? But Jean Luroy Heart at the time was only in his 30s. Yeah. So it's not like he was like some military at some point. Did you say that, aren't he? He was not in the military that I knew of.

And is he European? He is not. He is Cherokee Native American. Okay. And what we're going to see is sure it looks great right now, but there are a few things that are like, I don't know if he was just, because again, he evaded Sheriff Weaver,

he escaped from his jail. So now you're gonna tell me what the evidence is. So what we're gonna do now is we're gonna not pause. Nope, we're not. No, we're not. No, for part two. No! You blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Cause keep in mind, it all sounds great right now.

All right, well we know that you gotta hit me up. Jean Lurray Heart is the guy. Not real sure he is. I don't know, I mean, that's pretty. It's pretty condemning. It sounds pretty damning, but it's, but it, you might, you might question. I don't think condemning is really ever, but yeah, you know, whatever. Locust is not a flower either, but we're gonna go with it.

I live in my world, I don't know where you live. But Sash's world, we're just living there. We're all just living it. So, yeah, so part two will go over, you know, the whole thing with Jean LaRoye Har when they look further into it, they start looking into go over, you know, the whole thing with Jean LaRoye-Harr when they look further into it They start looking into things like, you know, something pops up. Remember they found sperm in two of the on two of these girls Which told the mattress. Well, they couldn't figure that out

But they did find out that he had a sect of me at one point, which should not produce sperm But sometimes mistakes happen. Well, we'll see. There is a lot that has to do with it, so. Oh, fuck you. So we'll go through it. All right, well, end this right now. You can find us on Instagram, uh. morbid podcast.

Hit us up on Twitter. A morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail. morbidpodcast.gmail.com. I'll be here listening. We hope you keep it. We're. But that's a weird that when we end this,

I need a link to tell me everything that she knows right now. Bye. Bye. Oh my this, I need a lady to tell me everything that she knows right now. Bye. Bye. Oh my god, I need to know. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.