Morbid - Episode 198: The Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders Part 2

Episode Date: January 4, 2021

The conclusion to this horrific case is finally here. Tonight we talk about Oklahoma's most massive manhunt, we discuss the mounting evidence against Gene Leroy Hart and we discuss some questionable police work that may have cost them their case in the end. Unfortunately, this case technically remains unsolved, despite many attempts to get something from the DNA evidence that was poorly stored for so many years. It's a tragedy that hopefully will one day have some real closure.  Sources for these episodes: The Camp Scott Murders by C.S. Kelly TulsaWorld Investigative piece by Timothy Stanley (Highly recommend) GirlScoutMurders.com (Very comprehensive site dedicated to the case ) Article about Denise's shoes being found Tent Number 8 by Gloyd McCoy Thank you to our sponsor tonight: Hunt A Killer Right now, you can go to HuntAKiller.com/​MORBID and use ​CODE MORBID for 20% off your first box. Again, make sure to use ​CODE MORBID ​for a 20% discount! Do you have what it takes to Hunt A Killer? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. And guess what? Alina's not going gonna make us wait for part two. I'm not.

You got it. The very next business day. The very next day. It is not even a business day, so you're welcome. Wow, look at that. No, it's a business day for us. It is. It's always a business day for us.

And I figured we were initially gonna have Ash do her episode because usually, as you know, I don't know if you're new here, but if you're not, you know that we switch on and off. It's my time, it's our time, it's my time, it's our time. I decided like maybe I should also do some work for this part. Yes. So, well it was supposed to be ush's turn now to do her case, but we decided why have a case

in between part one and two. Normally I would do that because it's fun to make everybody be like, what the fuck? What the fuck? I feel like this one you need the closure. I need the closure one and two. Normally I would do that because it's fun to make everybody be like, what the fuck? What the fuck? I feel like this one you need the closure. I need the closure on this one, so. And I need the closure. Like I need out of this case now,

so I was like, I'm gonna soft shoe right out of here after this. I feel that. Also, I feel like all of a sudden my voice is very like, it's very sensual. Is it so sensual? No, it's because I just made cupcakes, I think. And whenever I, no, I'm, okay, let me explain.

Let me explain. Whenever I use the oven in my apartment, because my apartment is so small, it gets really dry in here. No, that makes sense. It's just my voice is sensual because I make cupcakes. I think my voice is sensual, because I just made cupcakes. It's pretty sure.

It's sensual. Poorl, I love it. Oh, man. because I just made cupcake. It's pretty sure. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does.

It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does.

It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does.

It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. It does. picked your celebrity for you. It does it. And then I was like, oh, everybody says that I look like Brianna of Tarth A.K. Gwendolyn Christie. Christie, I knew it was Christie. I like paused for a second. Really? So I made one of those more things and I was like, well, shit, I can't deny this.

She does. She looks just, and Gwendolyn Christie is a goddess, which is why you look like her. Thank you. Goddesses. And then one of Elena's girls had like a really good week this week, and she asked me if I would make her rainbow cakes, and I was like, yeah, so I made a TikTok of me

making those and then shoving one in time. I hate you're welcome. It's real hot girl shit. Okay, talk right now. I'm doing hot girl shit. So yeah, I'm a TikToker now. I like what's your TikTok name? Ashley Kelly III, because Ashkel was apparently taken. So fuck you to whoever my doppelganger is.

Well, fuck you Ashkel. But it's Ashley, A-S-H-L-E-I-G-H-K-E-L-L-E-Y-3. Also, I can't wait to see a negative review on iTunes. That's like, oh my God, who cares? What your TikTok name is? What? Whatever, man. I have a TikTok, but I don't have anything on my TikTok. I just use it to follow other TikToks, but maybe I'll put one on it because Ash made me like, it's fun. Maybe. And I have an idea for one, and I feel like it'll be

like perfectly you and I. Yeah, I think our separate TikToks are gonna be. It'll be funny. Yeah. I also, well, I've always wanted to do a YouTube channel, but I feel like I don't have the time at all. No. So I feel like TikTok is a really good way to be able to use that as a makeup and hair outlet. Oh, I think that would be perfect. And then, yeah, just throw them on there.

And it's like, it's not as time consuming. Yeah. And then you can do your hot girl shit. I can do my hot girl shit. Maybe we should make one for more. For morbid. I think we should. Yeah. I think we should make one for morbid. I think we should. Yeah, I think we should make one for morbid.

Yeah, it'll be fun. The outtakes. Morbid, the outtakes. Can we call it that? Maybe. You don't have that. No. Maybe.

What a lane. This has maybe, I know it means no. It's like when your mom's like, yeah, maybe you can get your belt in the middle. And you're like embarrassed to know. Maybe we'll make a morbid one though. I think that's a good idea. Yeah, thanks. But yeah, so I just wanted to throw that out because I think Ash is going to make good TikToks.

Thank you. And, but I think now we can just move right on. To part two of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. Yeah, I think I was putting that off. It's time to wrap this all up. Now, I want to warn you, there's no real closure here. Awesome. So thank you.

You're all going to get to the point where I'm at. So that's nice for me. So we can all just shake our heads and fist together. We can all be in this together. So I think when we left off, where did we leave off? So we left off when the man hunt was really starting. When they had really, so Sheriff Weaver had really zeroed in on Jean Lee Roy Heart,

and he was totally sure that this was the guy. He had eluded him for four years before this. He had escaped his own jail twice. Oh, it was a twice. Yeah, he's a rapist, a brutal rapist of two pregnant women. He attempted to murder both of them by putting fucking duct tape over their heads and covering their mouth and noses

and blindfolding them and leaving them like next door pond somewhere. He tried to murder them, luckily they escaped. Yeah, he's a monster. Regardless of whether he did this or not, he's a monster. Yeah, and I think it's important to note that like, this guy, definitely, and we're gonna see it in this part too, that Sheriff Weaver definitely has a thing for this guy,

which you can understand. Yeah. But, and I think it does cloud his ability to allow the investigation to unfold how it could have unfolded. I could see that. And I think we're gonna see that he makes a couple of what I believe are fatal errors to this case. And it's because I think he wanted to move it along, but, you know,

and you were saying like you put all like the super condemning evidence in part. Well, yeah, but now there's, you're going to tell us things that are going to make you go, eh, so I want to start this off by saying that I do believe Jean Lee Roy Hart had something to do with this. Yeah. Do I believe he acted alone? I don't know. I don't think there might be more people involved here. I do believe he had something to do with this. Yeah. Do I believe he acted alone? I don't know. I think there might be more people involved here.

I do believe he had something to do with it. Definitely. And also, I just wanted to quickly say, I pronounced the kayawa tribe wrong. I said kayawa. So somebody very nicely was like, oh, hey, it's the kayawa. And I was like, oh, my goodness. And you know what's crazy?

Oh, my goodness. I looked up the pronunciation ahead of time. Clearly saw that it said, her title. Kaiwa. But you know how when you've pronounced something in your own head too many times wrong, even after you hear the correct pronunciation, you just say, so I fell into that and I apologize.

But it's the kaiwa tribe. That's what the tent was named after. Oh, okay. The unit was named. So yeah, I just's the Kayawa tribe. That's what the tent was named after. This is a unit was named after. So yeah, I just wanted to put that out there. But so at this point in the investigation, they haven't found Jean Lee Roy Hart yet. They brought in the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations at this point.

We're gonna call them the OSBI because it's the long thing to say. Yeah. So they, what they found was that they said there were three fingerprints found on the bodies which great. That's what we're looking for. We got that shit. And they said there was a couple more in the tent, but they were all kind of like a little smudgy, but they were going to see what they could do with them. There was also hair that was like black

hair stuck in the tape that was used to bind the girls. and they couldn't really do a whole lot with that either at the time, but they end up being able to. It doesn't really help a ton, unfortunately, because hair evidence is like, yeah, but you know. Because I feel like a lot of times with hair evidence, it's like, there's like a 98, like 9% chance that somebody with this hair,

but like hair isn't super different. Exactly, and it's like, from person to person. They used to think that like the microscopic view of hair, and like the comparison that way, was like a very big piece of evidence. It's actually not. But I think it was like 2015, I believe it is, or even might even been a little earlier than that. They decided that it's kind of shit evidence. It's like it really doesn't

matter. So unfortunately, it doesn't really do a whole lot in this case. They think it does for a little while, and then it's like nah. So just to give you a little background on Jean Leroy Hart here, just so you know who we're working with, I already told you what his crimes were. At the time he was 33 when these murders occurred. He was in school, he was like a football star.

Oh wow. Yeah, like a huge football star at Locust Grove High School. All of his teachers and his coaches said that they were shocked that he turned into the kind of person he did because they said in high school he was kind, sweet, well-mannered, weird. Totally fine. His coaches said that he was like a great listener, he was just like took direction, he was a good looking guy, everybody said, whoever just enjoyed being around. Nobody really had a whole lot of bad things to say about him. He was also known as an expert woodsman. He knew how to survive in any land. And especially

the land that was surrounding Camp Scott, because that was Cherokee land. He had grown up in there. He had, I mean, he had all his family were there. He knew that land, like the back of his hand, which is important. I like not that right. Land, back of hand. Yes. So June 23rd, 1977, a farm owner saw a man that he said matched Hart's description. He said, he saw him sitting in a cave little thing, because there's a ton of caves around here that even investigators said they had no idea existed. There's more than they ever knew existed in here. And of course, somebody who knows the land around there would know where all the people are.

Also, imagine having the balls to live in a cave. To live in several caves, too. This guy, because remember, in the first part, just in case you need a little catchup, they found another cave on, like, very close to Camp Scott, that had all this stuff in it, like, you know, the newspaper that matched the newspaper that was in the flashlight found with the girls, they found eyeglasses, no, they found notes that were saying the killer was here, they found photographs from a wedding that they traced back to Hart, saying that he had developed them while in prison. That's the, that alone like really kind of exiled the deal

for me. That one really connects it, but what we'll see is that does get questioned at some point. Oh. The validity of that, but we'll see. Oh, then. So, so yes. So this farmer saw this guy that he said, matched Hart's description, sitting in a cave, just two miles west of cap Scott. Oh wow. So he said he was walking around like the perimeter of his own farm as farmers do.

As farmer Joe does. I think that's just a farmer thing. You just walk the perimeter, you know. With your cattle. With your cattle. And your overalls. There you go. And your overalls. And your straw. Yeah, I end your straw, you're right. And your hat. Yes. To protect your head from the sun. And your cowboy boots. You cowboy boots. I love how that just turned. It was like a farmer, then it went to cowboy.

I love it. So he said he was walking around the perimeter. He happened to spot this man sitting under like some kind of, it's like a cave, like a rock formation almost. It kind of works as a cave. And he said he was just like sitting right underneath it. He immediately went back to his farmhouse and he called the police

because he was like, this guy looks like that guy that you're looking for. Yeah. The man was gone when the police derailed. Oh, come on. But they were able to look into his cave thing and they said, they found some things of note. So Officer Harvey Pratt was on scene for this

and he was also a Cherokee Native American. So he said, and this is important because he noticed that there was a formation in this cave that he lit like four small fires in a formation, so you could see the ashes of them. And he said there was also, and they were lit with cedar wood, so that was important. And there was a grouping of cigarette butts with the filters torn off, and they were in the middle of all these fires. That's weird.

Yeah. And he said that this is actually indicative of some kind of ceremony. Oh. Like the Cedarwood, the formation of the fires, the way that those things were arranged. So he said, you know, this to me tells me that it's somebody who at least is familiar

with Native American culture. Right. It was doing something to do with that ceremony. And also the saliva was taken from the cigarette butts and it showed type O blood. What, what? It wasn't me. But was it O negative or O positive? I'm not sure exactly if it was O negative or positive.

I could never find that. But it was type O and heart has type O blood. Oh, and as we know type O blood. Rare. Very rare. If it was type O and heart has type O blood. Oh, oh, shit. We know type O blood rare Very rare if it was type O negative very rare, you know, who else is? Oh negative is Annie and me and you hey, oh, I think everybody knows that you are heroes blood right over here need some blood I got some don't give me any though. I can't take any well you can take on negative if you got that. You got that? You and Annie can swap blood. We can, that's nice.

That's a nice thing to know. It is. That's nice. So they also found a boot print in the cave and it matched the impression of the boot print that was found in blood in the victim's tent. Oh. If you remember there was that military style boot print, same exact pattern, same exact size.

The boot print was size 9 and a half. The problem here is heart war and 11 and a half size boot. Okay, so that tells me someone else was with him, I feel. And it really gives credence to that idea that I feel like he was involved because he's too involved in all of this and it just makes a lot of sense, but not the only one. And I think they were zeroing too hard into just him, and not looking outside to see if there was more.

So everyone was sent out of Camp Scott, because at that point, they had collected all the evidence. They felt they could collect. But they had, and they had had to like a command post set up there that they were doing everything. But they took all the law enforcement out of there, but then they wanted to keep the scene secured, obviously, in case they had to go back, and what people just walking through there.

So they had a security company, like set up a command post there, just to watch the area. Until they were like sure. Like goes in there. Just to make sure that, you know, just in case they have to go back and all that. So they set up in a ton of shit went down while they were there.

Oh, damn. So they said they would see a lot of fresh footprints around, like someone was still walking around the area, and they would hear things, so they were like, someone was still stalking this place. That's so spooky. Dores would be left open that were previously shut. They would see silhouettes of people in the woods,

and then they would send their sniffer dogs out to try to get the trail. And they would go, and sometimes they would like follow a trail of like a scent, and then it would just stop. So they were like, shit, they can never really find who this was. That soap is hard. Which you wonder if it's like, this could be an outdoorsman who knows how to cover a scent. Right. Like to a point or the golden state killer

Exactly So one time though a dog was sent up ahead to go follow the scent and returned like totally shaken up and appeared to have been Bludgeoned on its head no by someone and they couldn't find who did it they couldn't find it That is that's why you see that he was that close to somebody and they were so close. Because obviously you don't let the dog go like too far. Exactly. And apparently they started using like string that they would put it like through trees to try to see, because at one point they were like, are we going crazy?

Are we just like spookyed out by this whole experience in this environment? Because like three girls got murdered here. Are we just like freaking out. It would be freaky. So they were like, let's put these strings across like trees and trails and stuff, like really thin string, so that if people are walking, they're not gonna see it, but they're gonna walk through it.

And then we'll be able to tell if somebody has been through here. Right. Well, they started doing that. These threads were breaking. Oh, shit. So somebody was walking around. I'm not gonna hate this so much. Well, while the guards,

this is insane. And this was real, I will post the newspaper article and everything. What? While these guards are here watching the camp, so they set up the main area that they were going to be watching. They set it in the director's office. Okay. And one night, they were startled by something in the woods. They thought they saw a man in the woods. And so they went out to check it once again. Couldn't find anything, but once they returned, they noticed on the front steps of the camp director's office, there was a bag with something inside that wasn't there when they left. What?

So they opened it and inside was a soaking wet pair of little girl shoes with pink socks inside of them. Okay, that's inside of them. Okay, that's inside the shoes. So scary. The handwritten name Denise Milner. Denise's mother said those shoes were her shoes, and they said they were not in the items returned to her,

so the killer could have had, like, that was the killer. Oh, my God. Who had them? What the fuck? And then put them on the camp director's steps, probably to be like, hey fuckers, you can write these girls safe. And look, I'm still fucking with you.

Wow. Like, returned her soaking wet shoes and socks. Ugh, that is such a yucky feeling right now. It's insane. Oh, look at the fact that they just missed him by like, Oh, it's unreal. Like, how did they not cross paths? And there was, so there was, because I was like,

what the fuck? I was like, how did, because of course, then people are trying to be like, well, were those shoes just like left there? Did somebody pull it like a prank? Did what happen? And it's like, no, you can't, her mother said those are her shoes. Yeah.

Like, I know those, like her name is written in them. Yeah, I know it. Right. And then I found an article from the Tulsa Tribune that was entitled Shoes Mysteriously Appear at Scout Death Scene. Uh-huh. And it says Tom Kennedy, Deputy Director of the OSBI,

said today two pairs of shoes with Denise Milner's name on them are in the evidence files at the Oklahoma City Office of the Crime Bureau. And he said, any shoes that might have been found Thursday were not there the day we originally investigated the case. I'm sure we have never seen these shoes before, they are not part of our evidence,

meaning because people were like, well wait, were they part, like did somebody fuck up at the crime lab and like forget those shoes? Or did they come out of evidence and and like forget those shoes or did they Did they come out of evidence and somebody was pulling a prank? Did they get stolen and what he's saying is no they never evidence we did we picked up all evidence We picked up two of her shoes that day those shoes were not there that day. So they were moms like those are her shoes

So they were with her stuff. They were with her. They were with her that night. And the killer took them that night. Well, and think of all the other stuff he took, I mean, like the denim purse, the eye glasses, the like a bunch of stuff. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. It's horrifying.

And they were bloody, you said? They were soaking wet. Oh, soaking wet. But the night that they were murdered, they were raped. It was soaking when they had been soaked coming from dinner. Right. So those could have been the shoes that were soaking wet or

It's somebody who's living outside and those shoes got soaking wet during another story this entire case is just so fucking creepy That's like that's some like horror movie shot brings creepy to another level. That's horror movie shit That's not even real so then At some point Sheriff Weaver which I'm like Sheriff Weaver, like Reston piece, he's not alive anymore, but it's like, bro, what do you do? What do you do? It's again, he just, he let it, he do.

Yeah, so he announces to the press that he was like, guys, we have the murder weapon. And everybody's like, oh, awesome, like what is it? But the OSPI and the district attorney, the Oklahoma district attorney are like, we have no idea what he's talking about. Oh no, you can't do that. What, so Weaver is said that the crowbar

that was found was the weapon, but there was no solid evidence to prove this. Like sure, it seems likely, like maybe, sure. But there was also evidence that there were several weapons used and there was literally nothing to say that that was a weapon They could not like say that So it seems to me and like he did and later I think Eventually the district attorney Sid Wise came out. I think it was like the next day and was like yeah

Sheriff Weaver was mistaken that was not so like he just said it you can't just say shit like that and to me It seems very reminiscent of the West Memphis 3 case where I Understand why you want to solve a case like this. It's three children who are murdered right? I get that and both you want to solve that shit And it's exactly like Gary Gitchell in the West Memphis 3 case Mm-hmm He wants to be the one to solve it. He wants to take the person off the street

He wants to say he did it. Mm- it. He wants to make these parents chill. He wants to make everybody not scared. Right. So he's like, we gotta solve this, we gotta solve this. And it just seems like they rush to close these cases so quick. As soon as something looks good, it's like, that's it. Right, but you have to double check. It gets sloppy.

It gets sloppy. Yeah, it gets sloppy. And again, it makes sense why they want to do this. I get it. When it comes to kids, it's like high, high emotions, high everything. But you just got to step back for a second and be like, but if I'm just closing this to close it,

and am I really doing anyone a favor here? Right. If I'm not taking the right people off the streets, like in my opinion, in the West Memphis three case, well, because you're not doing any of those. The killers are still walking around out there, in my opinion in the West Memphis 3 case. Well, because you're not doing any of those. The killers are still walking around out there in my opinion. Right. So, are they in my opinion?

They are. One of them, I think. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you still kick in. I forgot that. So, anyways. But yeah, so, and it's, I think this was one of those cases which, it's not the exact same because I think Jean had something,

Jean Hart had something to do with it, but it's just, I don't think the scope was too big enough. Well, so what did he say that the murder weapon was? So he had said that that crowbar was it. Oh, okay. But that it was. It was. Nobody ever determined if it was.

They were unable to really determine what the murder weapon was because it was like bludgeoning, so I think it was hard to figure out. Well, and if you think about it, if there was multiple people working together, there was probably multiple murder weapons. Well, that's what they said.

They know there was multiple weapons used and left hand, right hand, and all that. So they're like, yeah, sure, that could have been it, but like, that was maybe one of them. And you can't say that if there's no evidence to prove that, you have to have evidence to back it up. Like a hand print or something, or like, be able to show that that is what that made that wound, you know. Right, right. But they did not. So the dogs remember the

the wonder dogs. Yeah, how could I forget? So those dogs were sent out again. They actually hit on a pond, a scent for heart, on a pond on Jack Schroff's property, that farmer who had the shit stolen from him. And the murder, like the tape and everything. Yeah, like the tape used. Yeah, and it was on his, it was upon on his property, where Jean Leroy Hart had taken those pregnant women, right, dumped them and let them die. That's where he had put them. Oh, shit. Yeah, so they were like, that's weird. That descent just brought us back here. So some of the parents actually,

because right now it's like the biggest man hunt in Oklahoma history at this point. So some of the parents actually joined in the hunt for the killer, specifically Richard Gusey, who later we're going to see that Richard Gusey really like did the damn thing. I believe he passed away a couple of years ago. But like he really like, that was Michelle's dad, right? That was Michelle's dad and he really took this experience

and he said at first it like really ruined him and then he just took it and did great things with it. So we'll see that after. But he really took part in this and he said that he needed to be part of the people who took his daughter's killer down. He's like, I wanna be there when they get him. Absolutely.

So hundreds of volunteers search the area. On June 26th, they found something interesting. It was in an area referred to as Skunk Mountain. I wonder why they named it that. I don't know. Maybe there's a lot of deer there. So this area was only within a mile of camp Scott. Again, everything's like really close.

And they found two men's jackets, a t-shirt with rust colored stains on it. So you mean blood. So blood. And a pair of jeans. They also found a ton of trash and things like beer and soda cans and egg cartons. So it's becoming clear that a man or several people are living in this area and camping out right around Camp Scott. Right. Way too close to this camp to be fucking undetected for this long. Well, the fact that the whole, like they set up the bureau to keep tabs on them and he was right there.

He was literally right there. I meant to say too, why would you not like have one person stay? Yeah. Or like one or two people stay. Just to see what happens. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know what I mean? Yeah.

I know I wonder if they did that, but then that one time they didn't have someone stay and that's when he left it. But it's like, so this whole time, no one is checking to see if the perimeter around camp Scott where these children are going to be sleeping and fucking fabric tense. Maybe you should see if people are living in the woods. I don't know. Probably. To me, that's maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm a in the woods. I don't know. Like to me, that's, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm a helicopter camp counselor for an hour.

No, you know, but like, I feel like that's something you should do. What you would do, I would think, is have like a few golf carts and like a couple of security guys just going through the woods all the time on different shifts. Exactly. Security people, that's what they do. They stay up all night and they watch shit out for you.

It doesn't have to be the same person,. No take shifts you can do it or fucking counselors That's somebody take the night shift and you all have to take shifts right it's just insane If anything you would think a camp like that would have some kind of security They and there was nothing nothing and when I saw the picture of the tent, I was like, are you kidding me? The tent. And then we had a couple of people right in and say, like, they had family members that were at that camp.

And like, in those tents. And then a bunch of people were like, oh, I slept in tents just like that. I was like, blessed your soul. Yeah, I'm so glad you're here today to tell that tale because of the Holy. And then somebody had said, and I just saw it, and I can't remember your name, I'm sorry.

But she said that she was supposed to go to that camp on the same session, and that she backed out right before because she didn't want to leave her mom, and I was like, plus you. Literally. I'm so glad that you had that gut feeling and that you didn't go in that you're here today. And then I can talk to you, hello.

Right. I know you're listening, hello. No, it's so glad you're here. And a couple of people said they had family members who were either in the camp, like in that camp with those kids. Yup. Some people said they grew up with Laurie. They like knew her.

Oh, like, yes, somebody knew Laurie's sister. So many people were like, we're part of this. And we're saying that this is like haunted them. A lot of weirdos are connected to this case. Yeah, it's crazy. So like, it's really nuts. It's nuts. And a lot of people were like, you guys are really terrified this case. Yeah, it's crazy. So it's really nuts. And a lot of people are like, you guys

are really terrified of camping. Are you okay? No, I'm not okay. I'm not okay. I don't. We have episodes that are called Don't Go in the Woods, man. Yeah, I don't go in the woods. And don't worry, we'll do another episode of Don't Go

in the Woods, man, because I'm feeling it now. You're serious. You're feeling it hard. So at various points, the rewards for the capture of Gene Leroy Heart or information at all was raised, they were lowered, they were everywhere. Girl Scouts around the US actually raised upwards of like $15,000 for information. Oh. Yeah. So like people were really invested in this.

Right. And at different times, the district attorney Sid Wise, Sheriff Weaver and the OSPI all gave conflicting information about suspects. Awesome. So like this wasn't a very smoothly run opera. No. So Sid Wise, the district attorney said at one point there was no suspects at one point. And then Sheriff Weaver was like, no, there's only one. And it's, and of course, it's you. And the OSPIaver was like no, there's only one and it's of course Is she in the back and the OSPI was like no this three So everybody was like but how many though those are three different amounts

Can we like average it out or something what is the mean? Yeah, I was like what what is the mean? Tell me I said that to Annie the other day and she was like what? Hashtag math. Yeah, I love math. I actually loved doing that stuff like mean and average and I like math in general Which is weird because I feel like you wouldn't expect a bitch like me to like math But I was numbers But yeah, so then they had to come out and like literally the very next day said wise was like, oh no, we have a suspect and it's like guys You can we all just like talk to each, can you guys get walkie talkies or something?

And just be like, hey, what are you gonna say to the press tomorrow? Time for over. Instead of just all being like three, I think? Zero? One. It's like none of you are, what are the odds that we know?

We've landed on the same number. Do we know who the other, like who the three suspects were in the OSB eyes? Eyes? We really don't, because they do look at a couple of other people, which we'll mention at the end, but no one pans out super well. Okay. So, there's a lot of weird stuff.

I just don't understand how they're like right in the woods, but they can't get them. Yeah, they just can't get them. I don't really get that. Can't get them. So, there are now reports coming from all over saying that they're seeing heart all around the camp. So now people are like, we gotta step up this. Like he's in these woods.

We have to get him. So scary. And so now there's a huge search that is organized with 200 law enforcement officials and over 400 volunteers, like civilian volunteers. Because this was like, what did you say like in the beginning like a hundred acres or something like that? Oh, it's a 410 acre camp. That's a it's a pretty uh remember when I said like I didn't understand how they couldn't find out. Yeah, there's that I'd like to retract my statement.

I'd like to gently pull that statement back that from the record. I'm not going to re-gift that one. So yeah, so they were going out searching for this. They were instructed that this was a search and not to bring weapons because they didn't want people just shooting people. Really shooting people. And actually the members of the American Indian movement,

aim, they actually came forward and we're like, we're gonna monitor this and just make sure that nobody's like taking their frustration out or anything, you know? Like we just wanna make sure. And they were just, they were like monitoring. Yeah. And a lot of the searchers actually were super drunk.

A lot of them, like barely stand up. They did bring weapons, a lot of them. So it was a little bit of a gnarly search. And it's gonna take everybody. Some of them even got arrested themselves, the searchers. For like public intoxication drug possession, all kinds of shit guys. And it's like, I don't, can you take like maybe

a couple hours out of your day and not be like a giant fuck up? Can you like, I don't like just get it together real quick? Cause what, the other thing is, just march in a line for like two minutes. Well, the other thing is this is like to not find children, but to find somebody who potentially murdered three children. Right, like, let's take that a little more serious.

Maybe step back from your own vices for like a couple hours. Yeah. And then go crazy. Also, you're helping the police. Do whatever you're doing, bringing drugs, while it's helping the police. That's what kills me.

I'm like, it's guys. Like, the last thing they need to do while they're searching for this guy for a killer of three innocent babies is arrest your drunk ass. Right. Or your dumb ass who just brought like a bag of cocaine into the woods with you.

Like what are you doing? But then you think back then, people were probably getting arrested for like weed. Oh yeah, I'm sure it was. So you know, many times I've had weed in my bag. But it's also just like, can you leave it at home for like a minute? Yeah, no.

You're searching for a murderer, a child murderer. You don't need that. It's just a loss. You might need that actually. Yeah, you might actually need it. Now I'd be like, take it with you. You're fine. But then it's like you're gonna get in trouble.

Yeah. So when the search kind of turned up really nothing of importance because everybody was like slapping all over themselves,, shooting guns in the air, they brought in heat sensor technology that they put on National Guard helicopters and they were flying it over the property. Well, that's cool. Yeah, and they were basically able to determine the difference between like a human and an animal by their heat profile.

Wow, I don't. I have never heard of that. Like science. That's cool as shit. But unfortunately, there are so many fucking caves in the area that they had no idea existed. They didn't really, they were able to have bathed capture. Yeah, you can't get through a cave.

Yeah, you can't really see that far under. So it was like, if they were hiding, you're not going to see them. And they tried a couple times and it didn't work. One time, I believe it was like weather trying to fuck to them. So unfortunately, it wasn't going to work. Here's a strange little tidbit that I read in several sources. And I'm going to put all my sources in our show notes

because I have a ton of articles and books that you guys can devour. There's one, and I have it written down somewhere I'll say it when it comes up. But there's one, I think it written down somewhere. I'll say it when it comes up. But there's one. I think it was it's a Tulsa newspaper that did somebody I think it was Tim Stanley as the writer. He did like a six-part deep dive on this. Oh wow. And I want everyone to go read it because Holy shit. Like he killed it. He has so much information, so many little like tidbit interviews that I don't have here and all this. So like go read that

for Cheryl. I'll link it. But this little tidbit I saw everywhere, and I was like, wow, that's weird. What? So, they was very heavily circulated, like a rumor, that a local medicine man had cursed to the investigation and had said he did and said that the dogs, those three wonder dogs, would die soon.

Oh. And so they were like, okay. And then immediately afterwards, now he did this between the 16th and the 18th of June, I believe. And on the 18th, one of the dogs died of heat stroke. Oh. And then a second one of the dogs

weirdly ran out into traffic and got hit by a car and died. Oh my God. So two out of the three dogs died after he said they were gonna die. Wow, that's a little weird. That's bizarre. Yeah. Like really bizarre.

Does anybody, does anybody know why he cursed the investigation? No, I don't know if it was like a supporter of heart because he did have a lot of supporters that people thought he didn't have anything to do with this, but it's just a very strange occurrence. And if you look in any source, it is in every source. This is a heavily reported thing. Wow.

And these dogs did die. That is fact. That's crazy. Except one. Yeah. Thank God that other one didn't die. I know. It's so sad though.

They were like flown into Pennsylvania. They're like, hey, we're in Oklahoma. This is great. And then two of them are just dead. And their buddy has to go home by himself. I'm gonna need you to let me know the next time that's gonna happen. Sorry ahead of time. Sorry.

It does the dog die.com. It does the dog die.com. Yes, it does. So the FBI sent out 40 agents to help the investigation. They claimed that they knew heart was indeed in the area. They had proof of it, but they're not going to tell the proof. Yeah, guys, we know. Yeah.

But like, can you go get them? But they're like, we can't tell you how we know that. Oh, damn. Like, we know it. We're just not going to. A few times, he was seen by people, but dogs were sent, followed the trail, kept losing him. That's really good.

They just could not find a guy. Because he's so familiar with this lamb. So familiar. Right. And that's a big thing. Right. Now, July 6, the medical examiner comes out and says those fingerprints that they had on the bodies, he said those were not, in fact, fingerprints.

Wow. And what's really crazy is, at one point, law enforcement involved and the district attorney had all said those three fingerprints. They said two of them were smudged, and one of them was a perfect fingerprint. But then he said no that no. And then the medical examiner comes out and is like none of those were fingerprints.

But that's interesting. So that's a perfect fingerprint was not even a fingerprint? Maybe it was and then the curse did something to fuck with it. No, I don't think that was something. I don't know. I don't think the curse went that far. I think the curse literally was like the dogs are gonna die I hate that but the fingerprints know I think it was do law enforcement coming out and being like we have fingerprints

And then the metal like no like that's actually just an oval shaped thing. Yeah, that's just like that's a piece of dirt Like I don't know. It's just not aw so like you guys lied again. Yeah, thanks a lot. And again, it's like, how do you think this is going to look when you go to trial man? Well, because you keep that people excited and then you're like, no, man, you're killing your credibility. And people aren't trusting you. Right. So it's and it's only going to get worse. So this is when the director of the OSPI said, and I'm going to say it exactly how he said it. I would say with certainty that heart is guilty, because I would not say with certainty that any person who has not yet been tried were guilty, but we do have a great deal of evidence

in this case that points to his guilt. I'm sorry, what? So I know that he's guilty because other people are guilty. Because I would say I would not say with certainty that any person who has not yet been tried, we're guilty. But he's not yet been tried. But we have a lot of evidence.

That says he's guilty. Was he high? Like, are you okay, sir? Are you okay, sir? What? Like, that gave me no information at all. It's just him being like, he's guilty because guilt and guilt is a silly thing and guilt and certain rainbows.

And you're like, oh, bye. Bye. See you later. So this is weird rainbows. Rainbows. So then they had a man named Dr. Robert R. Phillips do a personality profile of the killer. Oh, that's always so much fun.

It is. It really is. And so he did this based on, you know, newspaper articles describing the murder scene and anything else he could find. I got this particular information in one of the books that I'm gonna link and I care, remember the name of it right now, but I'll link it, don't worry.

So he said that he felt the killer of the girls at Camp Scott was a sadistic psychopath with sexual perversions who might repeat the heinous crime if not captured. Mentally, the killer could not tolerate the idea of rejection and this rage overwhelmed him. The murderer was not feeble-minded. He knew right from wrong and did not act on impulse,

which goes, that is perfect because this was definitely planned ahead of time. Oh yeah. I didn't think of the no gag that was homemade in her mouth. Right. And they had brought all the stuff, they had brought the, they put a little pinhole in that, at flashlight to make sure nobody saw it. They packed it.

They brought the cord, the rope, they had it all planned out. So this is not on impulse. And they left a note the week before it said like, we're gonna do this. We're on a mission. Like this was planned and those two women that Jean Leveroy Hart had raped. They had, they was evidence he had planned that ahead of time. So he definitely didn't work on impulse. I never feel safe. He said the killer was cool, calculated and probably kept the camp under surveillance before he moved in. He came prepared with the flashlight, blunt instrument and tape, and was in complete control

until he became caught up, which caused him to become careless. And he said the killer tried to bring order to the chaos with a futile attempt to wipe up the blood in the tent. Something happened, and he was frightened away away leaving behind his flashlight and other objects, which makes so much sense because when you look at it, why the fuck are you trying to wipe it up? Right, like you're not that able to. With the bed sheets.

But you're not gonna, you know that you're not gonna be able to wipe up blood, especially off of a wood. Yeah, the wood's gonna soak it in. It's not gonna happen. And you're not gonna wipe it up with the bed sheets and with the fuck are you gonna put the bed sheets and with a fucker, you're gonna put the bed sheets and then you just shove them into the sleeping bags with the girls.

So he just got like crazy and I need to take enough. So I think that was his moment of like, I need to bring order to this chaos. So I'm gonna try to clean it up. And then he probably came clear-minded and was like, this is not gonna do anything. A logical thing to do. And I need to get out of here.

I have to get out of here. So he just left everything. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. It does. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music.

I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, breaking down Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine.

Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today! What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times or fell in love with a vampire or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later paralyzed? What would you do? I'm Whit Missle Dine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them.

From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or London app. Now, September 22nd, 1977, two of the victims' parents filed a $3 million lawsuit against Camp Scott's Magic Empire Council. We are going to return to this suit later, because it goes on for a while,

and it's very frustrating the outcome. It should have been like the money granted on day one. It really should have. So while they're going through that, finally, 10 months after the crimes, finally, Agent Larry Bulls, who had been working with a Cherokee informant, was told by this informant that Hart was staying with a friend and a local medicine man like this

elderly guy named Sam Pigeon. He was in cooks and hills about 45 miles away from Camp Scott. He said this particular informant said that Pigeon truly believed Hart was being railroaded, and that in particular, he, along with others in the community thought Sheriff Weaver had a personal vendetta against him for evading him,

which was not wrong. And he just wanted to pin this on him. He said that he had been staying in a shack with pigeon for about eight months. So it makes sense because it means that about two months, he's been running around those woods trying to evade capture, and then for eight months, he had a place to stay. And that's why they couldn't find him.

And nothing was really like they weren't like finding all the stuff. Exactly. And all the crazy shit happened in those first few months where he was running around out there. That's nuts. So it was April 6, 1978, eight OSPI agents stormed the home of Sam Pigeon. They took Gene Lee Roy Heart into custody without any issues. He was wearing women's eye glasses. And the photos of him, you see,

I'll post photos of him being captured. They are like cat eye little shun. What the fuck? Which obviously it's fine if a man wants to wear like quote unquote women's eye glasses, but what is very specific with this is his obsession with women's eye glasses. Right, right. And the fact unquote women's eye glasses, but what is very specific with this is his obsession with women's eye glasses. And the fact that women's eye glasses were stolen

from the camp and they were placed at the crime scene. And women's eye glasses were found in those caves that are connected to Jean Leaver a heart. That's insane. And he was fucking wearing them. They're on his fucking face. Yeah, that's creepy. You can't tell me that he didn't have anything to do with this.

No, he had something to do with it. I think there was more people involved, but he is absolutely one of those people. For sure. I'm sorry. And there is a book called Somebody Cry for the Children. You, this book, I tried to buy it, but it's out of print now. So the only copy on Amazon is $119. And I was like, love you so much, I'm not going to buy that book.

Honestly, that's not even bad, because sometimes when they're not paid, it's like $900. And you're like, who does that? Yeah, and I'm like, love books so much. And not gonna lie, there was a part of me. You like almost, I literally looked at John and I was like, what would you do? And he was like, I was like,

it's like the on TikTok where they're like, girl, I don't do it. I'm not gonna do it. I was just thinking about it. And I was like, I did it, but I did it. But you do it. I was just thinking about it. I was like, I did it. But I did it. But you did it. Because I literally looked at John and was like,

hypothetically, if I bought at $119 book, and he was like, what? And he's like, does this book tell me you like the secrets of the universe? Like, what is it? And I was like, it's just like, well, it might. I was like, it's just an old book about some murder.

He was like, do what you do, but like, just think it through. And I was like, see, I just got a gift card. So I would have used my gift card. Yeah, see, I should have thought of that. But I was like, all right. So whatever. But I did find some like excerpts of the book. And in it, Larry Bull says that he, when he first got a heart, when he was leading him out of the shack, he said, you killed those little girls, didn't you? And Carts reply was, you'll never pin it on me. So that's not to not know what I didn't do. And it's you're never going to pin it on me. And he was right. And that's just him being a cocky motherfucker because he knows. Right. Now, what is interesting? And

this is when things start getting, this is when I think Sheriff Weaver, and it's how to be there started fucking up their own investigation. So now what's interesting is they searched the home, the shack, they find nothing of real importance, nothing connected to the crimes, it's just like regular shit. Well he'd be an idiot to bring it there. Exactly. And then they do a second search after, after he's arrested. And suddenly, they find two items. Oh, crazy. A toy corn cob pipe and a mirror.

Now, they were apparently stolen from some one of the counselors at the camp, so it connects them to the camp. And it was stolen that night, apparently. OK, so that is weird. So that is weird. The idea that these were planted, though, comes into play because why didn't they find those in the first one?

Yeah, it's true. And we're going to find out later. You're not searching a mansion. And what we're going to find out later is that when they came out and said, well, these were stolen from the counselors that night, so I don't know if that was completely the truth. And we'll find that out during the trial.

So when they come out, they're like, whoop, we got these two things that were stolen from the camp that night and everybody's like, well, there it is. Boom. Shakawaka. You got it. Everybody just said boom, Shakawaka. They all just were like, boom, Shakawaka.

You've got it. So my dad says that all the time. I love that. I'm burst for you. Sorry. But he was charged with three counts of first-degree murder. He pled not guilty. He was initially taken to the state penitentiary

at Macaulester, Oklahoma, where he had been serving a prison term of first degree rape before he went and escaped at the Mates County jail in 1973. You know the other thing is like, you know once they catch you, you're going away again anyways, like for life. That's the other thing. Because you got 300 and five years.

So just admit that you did it. But you can tell he's a dick call. He's a cocky little fucker. Yes. Yeah, and he knows. He's like, they're not going to get me on this. So why would I say it? So why would I even admit to it?

I'm going to let, and I truly think he thinks that he likes that those parents will never know. Yeah, because he's not like that. He's an evil. Anybody who can do something like this, is the polyclass. It's the polyclass. The polyclass, yeah.

They just like it. They like fucking with the parents. It's part of the whole thing. They did say that they would seek the death penalty if he was found guilty. The trial began March 9, 1979. Unfortunately, right away, shit was not going well for the prosecution. Oh, no. The district attorney said wise, they found out that he had signed a book contract with the editor of the

prior Daily News, and he was agreeing to share case information for the book once the trial concluded. So obviously he couldn't be on the case anymore because that is a massive conflict of interest. And so he had to hand it over to Tulsa County, Tulsa County, DA Buddy Foulis, to be the principal prosecutor, which is fine because Buddy Falis to be the principal prosecutor, which is fine because Buddy Falis was great, but that doesn't look good. Yeah, already it's like, uh-oh. Yeah.

Sorry you already selling a story. Yeah. So the Cherokee Nation Tribal Council actually donated $12,000 to Gene Leroy Hart's defense. And when I first saw that, I was like, why everybody? Why'd you do that? But they said it was not because they thought he was innocent. They did not have, and they were like, we don't know. But they said they wanted to ensure that he received a fair trial

and they didn't think he would have the money to buy a defense team that could give him a fair trial. So it's like, okay, yeah. It's just like, because at first I was like, do you really? And then they were like, we don Yeah. It's just like one, because at first I was like, do you really?

And then they were like, we don't think he's innocent, but here you go. Here's a fair trial. And I was like, I think you could have just let him, I mean, a sick or swim motherfucker. I don't know, like,

you've been living in a cave for a while. That's your fault. I don't know. You know what to tell you. Sometimes I think it's best to stay quiet. Sometimes it's just, okay. Yeah, sometimes it's just, all right, I'm just going to go ahead and say, I wouldn't donate to the community. Sometimes it's just, okay. Yeah, sometimes it's just, all right.

I'm just gonna go ahead and say, I wouldn't donate to the community. Yeah, I wouldn't, but like, unless I thought that they were innocent. Yeah, for sure. But, and even then, I feel like I would have like a little shadow of it out and be like, well, what if they didn't?

Yeah, I just don't even, I think I just stay out of it. I'd be like, you know, I'm gonna be over here doing that. I'm gonna leave that to the legal system. I'm gonna go do a crossword. I know, no, it's a great job, but like, well, let's split the coin. Yeah, just let the chips fall

where they may, okay. Live and let live. And also, uh, Gene Lee Rahart, regardless of whether he's a race people is a literal monster. He's a rapist. Maybe he's just, I think he's one of those throwaways that we can just go, yeah, bye. That didn't work out. Let's just leave him over there. But you know, that happened. So he did great, great defense team. He had a wonderful defense team. That means, man.

And a lot of people in the community believed in him in his innocence. Well, you said he was like this like star kid growing up. He was, people probably just couldn't believe it. They liked him and he was also very charismatic in front of a camera. He was very likable. He had a very Ted Bundy way about him. Yeah, so that's not cool. And at one point, people he knew were actually saying those pregnant women he raped and tried to murder.

We're just trying to get away from their husbands and they went with him willingly. But so they went with him into the trunk and were bound willingly and then raped willingly, which is a conundrum in itself. And then they were taken to a pond and willingly had duct tape put over all of their air holes and then willingly shoved into brush and then willingly had to escape from that and then willingly told the story of how they didn't willingly do any of that. Willingly strange. Yeah, that's as many as strange. Weird, weird. I don't, I don't, seems legit. I wouldn't do that.

Seems legit to me. I see how you connected those weirdos. Everything is irritating. It's just like, okay, Jan. Yeah, that's, that's irritating. So they couldn't, you know, they sure Jan, they sure Jan, whatever, alright Jan. So they couldn't, unfortunately, in the sure Jan, sure Jan, whatever, or a Jan. So they couldn't unfortunately in the trial use the case of the pregnant women in the

like they couldn't bring it up in trial because I was a different crime and they couldn't bring it up because they didn't want it to bias the jury against him. See, I don't agree with that because that's that happened a couple times. That happened in the, I can't think of it right now. The child case that, Sarah Foxwell. Yes, they, like, couldn't say that she was, could have bring us that he's a literal monster pedophile. In another case that could have prevented

anything happening to Sarah Foxwell. Exactly. So it's like, you're not gonna put that in this case and then what if, and that's what bothers me a friend. It's like, when you, in legal terms, you're like, it makes sense in legal terms, but it makes no sense in life, in legal terms, you're like, it makes sense in legal terms, but it makes no sense in real terms.

So like a person's past, sure. Like, should you be judged solely on your past? Not always. But if you're doing really shitty things in your past, maybe. And it's also like if he has actually raped an attempted to murder people before, maybe we should talk about this when he's accused of raping and murdering some other people. Maybe we should talk about this when he's accused

of raping and murdering some other people. I feel like that's a permissible. Yeah, I feel like that, but it wasn't so that's stupid. So they were like, hey, Jean, where were you the night that those kids were murdered because that would help you. You said somewhere that you heard. I was out when he said, I was at, you know,

jokes on you guys, because I was at my uncle's house in Tulsa and they were like all right we got to talk to that uncle and he was like oh bummer he's dead so yeah and he was like oh bummer it sucks because he is no longer alive to corroborate that but you know I was there yeah and there were like no one can say that you were there and he was like, I'm an uncle fan, but he's dead. He would have, he would have told you. He would have told you. Happily.

He would have screwed, he would have sang it to you that I was there. But he would have talked about the card games we played. We had a great night that night. Well, I guess me and my uncle. He died. Me and my uncle. And you know, it's weird, he actually died

before I got there. Yeah, so weird, he died before I was arrested. It's so weird. I actually died like 10 years ago. Yeah, it's so weird. He died before I got there. Yeah, so weird, he died before I was arrested. It's so weird. I actually died like 10 years ago. Yeah, he died like 55 years ago before I was alive, but like it's so, I was there. I actually never knew him.

Yeah, it's so cool. So yeah, so that didn't help him. Everybody was like, thank cool, cool. Awesome. The physical evidence, like the hairs, the boot print, there was semen found, the fingerprints, they were all heavily debated during the trial because it's not like in the 70s, friends' ex-science was like tip-top, every like, you

don't stop, like they were literally- and people didn't necessarily like believe in science. Yeah, it just, and they couldn't do a whole lot with these things. It was great to have, but like, I think they were holding onto them being like someday. Yeah, well, I think people were still like, I don't know, sounds like magic to me. Sounds kind of kooky. That's the devil. What? Dina?

Dina? I was like, what? Erna! Erna! What is that? What is that? A venice? I don't know what even it says.

What is a venice? Cement? What? What do you talk to about? I don't know. Cement? What? So, I- So, they were like, yeah, we have all this stuff. What are you talking about? I don't know.

Semen? What? No. So they were like, yeah, we have all this stuff, but a lot of it doesn't tell anything. Awesome. And it certainly wasn't proving beyond a shadow of a doubt. So that's a bad thing in a trial.

The hairs were looked at by a chemist for the defense, and they said it bore a strong resemblance microscopically to Jean Leroye Hart's hair, but he could not confirm that they were from his head. Right. Obviously later we found out that they're like, oh yeah, that's complete bullshit. It was black hair and he had black hair.

Literally, that's it. So there was also an issue, the issue with the shoe prints, not matching his size, which of course the defense brings up and is like, we wasn't there. And they were like, but what if somebody else was there too? And they were like, doesn't matter, he wasn't there. That's not his chuprin. Yeah.

And that's all that matters. And if you hear that as a jury member, I would be like, of course. I don't give a fuck about that chuprin. Exactly. If anything, that just tells me he didn't do it. Yeah, exactly. So that's the thing.

And no fingerprints were able to be found to match him anywhere. Of course. There were no fingerprints on that flashlight, not to match him anywhere. Of course. There were no fingerprints on that flashlight, not on the crowbar, nowhere. Right. Of course he would be wearing clothes, but he probably was, because he was unprepared. Because he knew what he was doing. So bringing back that mirror and that toy corn cob pipe that they were like, Whoa!

Yeah. Shack-a-laka. This is what we found in the camp, and it was now in his shack. That's the evidence. Well, they found, again, they found it on the second search, which already is like not great, chin scratcher right there. And the counselor that these belong to testified at the trial and the stand that those items were hers. She said those are mine. And she said they were in a trunk that she brought with her to camp.

And she said that the weird thing was they were in that trunk and that trunk was taken by police for evidence. Uh-huh. And she said when it was returned to her a couple of weeks later. That's when they were missing. Those items were not in the trunk. Okay. So those items according to this woman were in police custody then we're gone and suddenly ended up in this shack. Yeah. So I'm not saying this clears him,

because there's so much more that goes against him. Right. But I'm saying is that definitely put out in the minds of the Jerry, I mean, especially regarding the conduct of the police at this point. Right. It went back to Sheriff Weaver being

to focus on this. And I think, I do think that might have been planted. I really do. I think that sounds a little weird. I think he had everything to do with this crime. I think they got too far into this and he got too gung-ho about provenant. And he started making fuck-ups like that.

And he could have just let it roll. Well, he should have just let it do it. Because that was huge. So then there's the semen evidence. And this was a big bone of contention during then there's the semen evidence. And this was like a big bone of contention during everything. So the semen found at the scene and on the bodies contained traces of sperm. Right. The sperm, which is like screaming right. The sperm was determined to be from a non-white male, which she is a Native American. And who had type O blood. Which he has type O blood.

Which he has type O blood. And that is rare. So this all matched heart. But the fact that sperm was found would indicate that the man who this belonged to is capable of producing sperm. Well, Gene Lee Roy Hart had a vasectomy, which is supposed to stop sperm from being ejaculated with the semen and the defense was like Boom like that's it bussectomy not him like the sanctum is don't always work

well Let me tell you tell me it was discovered by the prosecution that hearts of a sector me Failed and was only really partially done. So what has partially done me? What the fuck is that? What the fuck is that partially done, Missyct? So. Oh my god. I'm partially done, Missyct to me.

Yeah. And so he did produce sperm, but a large amount of his sperm was deformed and not viable. Like this is not sperm that would likely produce a child, like a pregnancy. So it was like funky ass sperm. What? Which makes it even more like specific.

It's like very, like, it is. It's like we need to be a ninja sperm. To form a turtle sperm. Yes, literally. Donatello sperm. This is like, you know, this is like the Jason from Friday the 13th of sperm. Ew.

Yeah. Exactly. So, so he, so yeah, so that was the kind of sperm that would be produced by him having a partially performed bisectomy, like didn't take. And when they tested him after his arrest, he did produce that kind of sperm. Oh, well, a ton of the sperm scene in the scene on the scene were deformed and not viable. Okay. That to me is like, hello. Right, that's so specific. Oh my God, that makes it even more nightmarish.

I know, it does. And the prosecution ended up bringing this guy named Larry Dry to the stand and he was a prisoner. And he broke out of prison with Hart at one point. He said that he and Hart had stayed at those caves that he was staying in together. He was like, I know he stays in those caves that he was staying in together. He was like, I know he stays in those caves. I was working at one point.

One of those caves, the one where the most stuff was found was actually like a hundred feet from the foundation of Hart's childhood home. Wow. Which puts it in like a very creepy thing. That is wild. So wild. So the defense also indicated another man in the crimes,

which looked really good at first, but it kind of falls apart. His name was William Stevens. He was a convicted kidnapper and rapist who was actually in prison in Kansas. That's gross. His cellmate, Duane Peters, told OSPI that he had told him he committed the crimes. He was like, he flat out told me, but we all know the prisoners say that a lot. I was just gonna say, did he want to name a leader sentence? Yeah. Also, this woman named Joyce Payne, who was the mother of a friend of Steven's,

said she saw the exact red six-volt flashlight in his possession. He was, she was like, I know I saw that flashlight with the pinhole and everything. Oh shit. Because I was gonna say like a lot of people could ever red flashlight. Unfortunately, it turned out that Joyce and this Duane guy

had some kind of thing going on and they were trying to get him a lighter sentence. So it looks like it was like a big thing to go after Stevens to kind of get a feeling. How do you feel? People. And the hair lie about things. Yeah, let's not do that.

We'll tell you one. And the hair and semen did not match him, unfortunately. But there was like another thing where this weightress in another town a long way away, the next morning after the murder saw William Stevens and he was like bloody and like very stressed out. Okay. So there's that, but that was never really like they didn't look into that because they were like, oh, the hair and semen doesn't match him.

That's weird because that's like in the West Memphis 3K. That's the bojangles. That's the bojangles. Yeah, nothing ever comes of it. It does a lot of like parallels. Yeah. He denied his involvement to the very end. He ended up dying in prison in 84.

I believe he was stabbed to death, but he's also said that to have killed himself, but I think he was killed. So, yeah. So said that to have killed himself, but I think he was killed. So yeah, in an interview with the Oklahoma on June 14th, 2007, someone who, they don't even say who it is, it's like an anonymous source, said that they heard, quote, quite a bit of vehicular traffic on a remote road near the camp between 2.30 and 3am, the night of murder. Mm-hmm.

Nothing came of this. What? Like this is right when it was probably happening. Yeah. And no one ever looked like nothing ever came at like what? You heard people in cars on that road. What the fuck? And no one's finding this out. Right. And those are like not really traveled. It's never mentioned again. It's in no other day. It's like no, did this just put away? What are you gonna do with that? It's never mentioned again. It's in no other day. It's like, no, did this just flow away? But then like, what are you gonna do with that? It's just what this meant. This many years later.

I just, it's just crazy to me. I'm like, what the fuck? And then it, like go talk to that person again and be like, what do you mean like, what a quite a bit of vehicular trap? What does that mean? Yeah, what does that mean? Does it mean like a highway?

Does it mean like, that's weird. Two or three cars? Like, what does this mean? It's just very strange to me. That is weird. So heart was, he was again, he was acquitted. They came out and they gave him a non-guilty verdict. And it only took 7.5 hours over two days to return the verdict of not guilty. I wonder if he would have been found guilty, if they had planted the suspicion,

or made the suspicion that the police planted. I think a lot of that probably put a lot of doubt in the eyes of the jurors, and they also just said, unfortunately, there's no physical evidence. Yeah. Because they also pointed to those pictures that were found in the cave

where that's how they were tying gene to that cave. Yeah. What did they say about that? Well, one of the guards at the prison that this, that he's, you know, was developing those photos for that prison guard at, he said he had seen those exact photos on Sheriff Weaver's desk at one point. Oh. And Sheriff Weaver was like, no, no, no, here's a piece of, here's like an evidence.

It was like, um, he had Jean LaRoy Reaver, I don't know, she LaRoy Reaver. Jean LaRoy Heart. Yeah, he had him sign and like an evidence thing saying that those pictures belong to him. Uh-huh. But he could have forced him to do that. Well, yeah.

Like that doesn't really prove anything. But yeah, one of the guards did say he saw those photos on them, which kind of is like, so did he thought of the guards did say he saw those photos on them which kind of is like yeah he put them in there to tie him to the cave to put him closer to the thing like yeah and you don't know again he but then again like why were those there and again he did well he did it he definitely just had help but it's like but these things are really though that put huge nuggets of doubt in the jury's mind.

And they couldn't with, within good minds. Think about it. Would you be able to? Yeah, I mean, because you can't look at anything else, you have to look at what's late and front you. And like you said enough, the death penalties on the table too. That's the other thing. That makes you think way harder.

So I think this whole thing was kind of, it was gone about in the wrong way. Yeah, it only, so they did, they debated for like, or deliberated for like six hours the first day, went home and then only took a half hour or something or like an hour and a half, and they were done. So not guilty, the supporters of heart cheered in the courtroom, which they can go fuck themselves because he's a rapist and attempted murderer. Well, like that at the very least.

And then also, I'm sure the victim's family's were right there. So like, container. So yeah, in fact, the victim's family said that they were sitting there completely numbing and shock hearing this non-kilted. And they said around us, it was like a baseball game. Like people cheering like at a baseball game. It's like, it was a start eight, nine, and ten year olds.

Can you just calm down? It doesn't matter how you feel about this fucker, because first of all, at the very least, like I said, he's a fucking rapist, kidnapper, and murder, like attempted murder. Yep. At the very least. Yep.

So you're all, that's gross, that you're cheering for his innocence. Like that's insane. But on top of that, it's like, contain your fucking self because there are parents of murdered babies in this room and it doesn't matter what happened, they're devastated. Like get to control, it's just like that pisses me off. Like if you were in that courtroom

and you jumped up and shared, go fuck yourself. Like that is so fucked up. So luckily, even though he was acquitted, remember, he escaped from prison. Yeah, and he got 305 hours. So he still had to serve his 305-year sentence for his previous rapes, attempted murders, and prison escape because he's a garbage person. So even though he was acquitted, he can go fuck himself. And he did. He did go fuck himself because he was only there until June 4th, 1979, only like two months. When he lifted some weights one day, went for a jog in the prison yard and then he just bucked

died on the prison yard of a heart attack. Yes, good boy. So he did go fuck himself. Literally. By Jean. So he had a heart attack in the prison yard. He just started fucking heart attack, which is like, and the parents of the kids said that it was like a relief, but also like frustration, because they never really had that close.

But like he's gone. So that's something. But he went to his grave like never admitted that. Yeah, so fucked up. And oh, and that amazing like deep dive thing that I told you about, it was in the, it was by Tim Stanley in the Tulsa world. Okay, whose favorite you can find it online, I'll link it. And it has Betty Milner, who is Denise's mother, saying people would come up to,

this was after the trial. She said people would come up to me on the street and say, heart didn't kill your daughter. I would punch them in the face. Which, die literally. If you are a person who would do that die. Like I'm sorry, I'm asking for me to punch your teeth out. Like that is, I don't give a shit. Who heart is to you? What you think about him? What a fucking subhuman, like just bucket

of vomit. You have to be to walk up to a madman. A grieving mother whose daughter was raped, bludgeoned, and murdered at summer camp. On her first night of summer camp. It was the same thing. And yeah. Fuck you, you probably did it, you murderer, right? Like, you have to be a murderer, or should be that evil, seriously. That's your thing.

No, that's literally asking to get your teeth clicked. Gross. You knocked out of your head. So gross. So yeah, so she said that, and then Lori Farm father Bo Charles Bo. He said quote the atmosphere was not hostile But it wasn't far from it and he said in the courtroom there was definitely subtle intimidation by heart sympathizers That's ridiculous. You're evil fucks like you're evil fucks who knows maybe those people were working with him Yeah, you don't know and he said that walking into local restaurants after this,

he said, you'd see jars collecting funds for heart. So he's like, we'd literally be going out to dinner and there was a jar on like the waitress stand. Wow. The hostess stand with like his face on it. I would knock it over. Collecting money for him. I would knock it over.

Well, they're grieving their children. So like I said earlier that they had filed a civil suit against, and this was against the like, you know, magic, yeah, the whole thing, the magic fucking council there. They lost the civil suit. That is unreal to me. During the whole thing, they presented numerous events that we have already talked about at the camp that definitely put these girls being placed in imminent danger. Yeah, and there are newspaper articles and I'll post some as many as I can That should have I mean that our girls finding people in their tents only to have the like dude run away when they go in the tent A girl having someone break into their cabin, but screaming so loud that the person left having someone break into their cabin, but screaming so loud that the person left put that with the threatening note found, the slashes and the tent

flaps and everything else that happened. They are at fault for not keeping those girls safe. The fact that they were not found at fault is a travesty. I don't understand how they weren't. That's a travesty. These parents deserved that fucking money. But I'm glad that it shut down because it never opened up again. No, it never opened up again. And Barbara Day, who was the director that year, she was the new director that year. That was her first year. And she said she could not have directed the camp if she had known the history of intrusions, burglaries and thefts. She said she had no idea there were that many. I don't blame her. And she said if she had known, she would not have directed it.

and she said if she had known she would not have directed it. So that place is fucked. And Barbara Day and Camp's counselors, D elder, who was one of the ones, they said both of them were in the dark about any of these prior things. Neither one of them knew about it. It sounds like they were just trying to cover up all this shady shit so that they could do their girls' coat

and get stuff from me. And that's all the way. That was about money. It's so fucked. They did appeal, but they upheld the judgment that it was against them. So that's just wrong. In 1989, DNA testing had come a long way at that point. The Siemens sample was retested.

And the DNA testing proved that three of five were, was a match for heart, his DNA. I think he did it. And it shows that there was like a one and 7,700 in Native Americans chance, which is a pretty good odd. Yeah. But it's the same. It's not. It's obviously not like the, you know, can done one in a million kind of thing, but like whatever. It's still there.

It's a big number. Then just last year, or just a few years ago in I think it was 2016, 2017. The sheriff of May's county actually started raising funds to carry out like more advanced DNA texting. And they've been doing that since I think 2016. Oh, that's good. And they've been trying to get it retested. Not really any answers are coming. At one point, there was like upwards of like $50,000 raised to do this, but it's really expensive, obviously. Yeah.

I haven't been able to find anything that has come out since then. I've wanted something to come out so bad. That could either mean that nothing has, because these samples were stored horrifically. They were not stored well, and put that with the age of them and that their deteriorated to the point of not being able to use. But I don't know if it's maybe they can't use them because of that or maybe they are

finding something and they're just keeping a close to the chest. Because they're trying to see it out. I don't actually try to do it the right way. Let's hope. Let's hope that's what it is. The son of H.J. Scottie and Florence. Oh yeah. He now, he would have inherited that whole thing. He was pissed that it was closed and thought that it should have been reopened, which I say, are you serious?

Not even going to comment to that. Are you serious? Buddy, really? Yeah, really friend? Why don't we think before we think? Why don't we think before we say things? Yeah, you got to think before you speak. Yeah, something you learn when you're little.

Yeah, I'm gonna do that. It's hard, but we'll try. So, you know how I mentioned that Richard Gooseh, Michelle's father, had like done some great things? Yeah. He actually helped the state legislature pass the Oklahoma Crime Victims Bill of Rights. Wow. And it was like, basically, I can put a link for that too

just so you can read it and see what he did, because it's amazing. It's all basically so, like, the families of victims, like, know the procedures the entire way through, like, things like, in the Bill of Rights, there's something that says, like, they need to be placed in a waiting area that's like, never crosses paths with the defense

and they're, like, the defense team and the person, like the defendant. Yeah. Little things like that, but that need to be in writing, you know. Yeah, which is amazing. And then he also founded the Oklahoma Crime Victims Compensation Board, which are huge accomplishments. And if you look at his obituary, it states all these things.

He was like an amazing person. Her family never changed her bedroom. Her calendar in her bedroom still reads in 1977. Wow. And they said it wasn't like a shrine. It's just that they just didn't want to change it. No. Like it's just there was no reason.

That made me think of the lovely bones and I got that. Yes, I thought of that too. I got that little throat line. I thought of that too. That's really sad. Sherry Farmer Laurie's mom, she actually founded the Oklahoma chapter of the Parents of Murdered Children, which is like the grief group.

And weirdly enough, they also showcased that in the Paradise Lost. Yeah, they do. The Arkansas chapter. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, this is weirdly. That is really weird. So like I said, I think that heart did it,

and he did it with help. That's what I think. And I think there's people that we need to find that did it. Maybe we'll get a deathbed confession. Yeah. Or maybe you're right, maybe they are finding stuff because I hope so. The DNA testing got better.

I really, really hope so. You would have to think that some kind of like fabric or fingerprint or something was left behind. That, it's unfortunate because it was so poorly managed and it was that crime scene was poorly taken care of and then like, they were so long ago. There was the Palm print that they found in the tent that they were all excited about and it turned out

it was one of the fucking OSB agents that had accidentally left a Palm print. Yeah, that's wild. And then like, you know, one of the fucking OSB agents that had accidentally left a palm print. Yeah, that's wild. And then like, you know, one of the photographers I read, like a crime scene photographer, went home and he saw that he had blood on his shoes when he went home and it's like, and he was like, there was so much blood, like you couldn't not walk through it, like it was everywhere.

And it's like, but like, I feel like that's not good. Like, no, let's teach that off. Yeah, you had it on your shoes then. Also, can you imagine realizing that when you get home? That you have a child's blood on your shoes when you go home No, I could not but yeah, so unfortunately, you know Heart did go to prison for something else. He did die in prison. So goodbye. Yeah, but that's all we got right now I wish that he lived a little longer and had to like suffer in jail. That's what I wish

That's what I would because he obviously what I wish. Because he obviously didn't like jail, because he escaped it twice, so it would have been nice to see him kind of have to live that out. What a really sad case. It's a really sad case. Yeah. And I'm glad to be rid of it. Yeah.

I'm glad that's why I was like, you know what, this could probably be like three or four parts if I really wanted it to be, but I got to get out of here. I got to go out. I got to get out here. My Uber is here. I cannot sit here in this sludge for too much of life. Like, I learned that lesson with Myra Hensley and Ian Brady.

I spent too long in there. Yeah, and I was subjected to some shit for way too long, and so we're all of you. Yeah, I just, that was way too long of a time. I was in a different headspace for weeks. I'm still in a different headspace. Same, I say all the time, same. And. I'm still in a different headspace. Same. I say all the time, same.

That's the one that destroyed me the most. I was thinking about this case today too, because it really is just sad. And also, it's hard. There's a lot of woods behind my pattern. And I have huge windows in my bedroom that are always open. Yeah. So let's go ahead and close that. We're going to close that.

And by open, I mean the curtains are open. Yeah, it's literally never open. For shares for dead people. Yeah, and they're real. I think they've been locked from the time that I moved in here. Yeah, I've never opened a window. I've never opened my bedroom. But no, never. I think it's like painted over.

You can't even open it. Yeah, fuck that. Well, yeah, so that is the case of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. Good job. And it is Kayawa, not Kayawa. Yeah, sorry about that. God, I think everything I'll say pronounced correctly.

So good on me. You probably didn't. No, I'm totally kidding. You probably didn't. Well, find us on Instagram and let us know if she pronounced everything else correctly. At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter.

At A Morbid Podcast. Send us a Gmail. I have been loving the case suggestions lately Yes, my case next week. We actually got like four suggestions to do it. I love the case suggestions. They're my favorite So yeah, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird But that's over that you're a big douche-nokker and you just suck. Don't be a douche-knocker. I just made that up. Don't do it. Love y'all. Follow me on TikTok.

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