Morbid - Episode 210: Willie Pickton Part 1

Episode Date: February 21, 2021

I don't even know what to write about this WILD CASE. We’re finally diving into Willie Pictkotn, it’s filthy, it’s dirty, it’s squalor, it’s vile and it’s only the beginning. This is part one of Willie Pickton, we’ll get into the story of his childhood, take a glimpse into his family’s life and then we’ll find ourselves somehow deeper in this foul hole when we reach his adulthood. This is only the tip of the iceberg, and we are horrified.  As always, thank you to our sponsors: Upstart: Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today when you go to UPSTART.com/MORBID Warby Parker: Try 5 pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com/morbid ThriveMarket: Join Thrive Market today to get 25% off your first order AND an exclusive FREE gift! ThriveMarket.com/MORBID. Stamps: special offer that includes a 4- week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale with promo code MORBID at Stamps.com See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wonderypod or text wonderypod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie's list is now Angie, and we've heard a lot of theories about why. I thought it was an eco-move. For your worst, guess paper. It was so you could say it faster. No way. It's to be more iconic.

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That's ANGI, or download the app today. Hey, weirdos, I'm Alina. I'm Ash, and this is morbid. At night, morbid at night. I'm not going to sayxy and spicy. Actually, not at all. This is neither sexy nor spicy. It is scurry. It is unattractive and bland. But I wouldn't say bland.

I would say unattractive and disgusting. Nasty. That's what I would say. So this is another one of our episodes that has been chosen by our patronuses. Patronocypics. Our patronocy. Andronus-eye picks. Our patronus-eye. And they picked a doozy.

They certainly picked a doozy. I'm glad they picked a doozy for you because next week is also a doozy. They picked Robert William Pickton. Yikes. The pig farmer from Canada, who is quite a character. And I have about 12 to 14 hours of research into this already. You're gonna get three parts because Mama can't stop.

And here's the thing, she said 12 to 14 hours and she's only got one and two. Yeah, I've only got two done. So that's gonna be more than like 14 hours. I just can't stop. This case is fascinating. It's huge, it's horrifying, it's intricate, and it just can't stop this case is fascinating. It's huge. It's horrifying. It's intricate and it's so important because this case has to do so much with like missing

indigenous women in Canada. And what a huge, huge like just like help, it was so fluffed off. And it's still a problem. Yeah. And especially sex workers, it's like forget about it. Of course. This went on for way too long. Bullshit. But I think the only thing before we get into it

was just like an exciting thing that I just want to be like, oh, listen to because it was really fun. Oh my gosh. Guys, we were on Murder Squad. And I couldn't wait to tell you guys the amount of times that Elena said, Paul Holes. I said Paul Holes quite a bit.

Paul Holes. Bees. I think it was just like one of my goals in life to be like, well, Paul Holes, what said Paul Holes quite a bit. Paul Holes. Bays it. I think it was just like one of my goals in life to be like, well Paul Holes, what do you think of this? Paul Holes, Paul Holes, Paul Holes. And it was great, but yeah, I was really excited about it and we couldn't tell you guys for weeks. I know.

I was just really excited. So yeah, that was the big like, yeah, I'm so excited. I think I tweeted like that night I came home and I was like bouncing off the walls. You were literally on drugs. Being able to like talk about a case with Paul Holes and Billy Johnson, of course, obviously. But we had actually done an episode

if you guys like haven't listened to it, where we had Billy on the show and we talked about Katrina Holmer and that was amazing. And after that when I was like leasing my mind, oh absolutely. But like Paul Holes here, like you like solved the golden state killing.

Well, that's the easier way. He's probably the smartest man I've ever had a conversation with. And yeah, it was like thrilling. Like I can't, I can't think of somebody else that I've had a conversation with. That's that smart in that area. And just like being able to talk about a case, especially like the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders,

which is what we talked about on that episode with a homicide detective who just has this like way of being able to look at a case that we can't, like he came up with a few things that I was like, why didn't I think of that? Like I know. Like that makes so much sense. But yeah, it was a lot of fun.

We absolutely loved it. We want to thank them again for asking us to come on for the Winter Distraction episode because that was like truly an honor. I can't wait to do it again. We're totally gonna do it again, I hope. So, hope we get invited back. Shout out to Karen and Georgia.

We love you. Oh my God, the best. We love you. Thanks for paving the way. Thank you for letting us see Stephen for a little while. That was fun. That was so much fun. But yeah, I just wanted to say that because I was like a real like shot in the arm this month. Oh, absolutely.

We were excited about it and hope you guys go listen to it. It's on their feed. And if you haven't listened to Murder Squad, go listen to them because they're awesome. Incredible. But let's really destroy you. Let's roll around in the mud together.

Let's go ahead and really, really make you not want to eat for the next like four days. Glad I literally just ate two tacos. This case, I, there's just, there's a lot. So I don't really know anything about this case, to be honest. Wait until you get into it because it's, we're going to get into. So for part one, I'm going to tell you about Willie because he's known as Willie

picked in. His name is Robert William, William Picton, but he's known as Willie. We're gonna tell you about Willie. I'm gonna tell you about how he grew up. I'm gonna tell you about their infamous farm that they had. We're gonna talk about the time period and what was going on in Vancouver at the time. These missing mostly indigenous women that were sex workers, I think all of them were,

and how it was being ignored. Like, it's just, it's shocking. So part one, we're gonna get into that, and we're gonna talk about a few run-ins with Willie. So we're gonna give you a little, I'm gonna give you a little bit of like meat and potatoes don't work. She's gonna give you a little snippet before she gives you. But then she gives you all of part two.

Part two. She's gonna be like, whoa! And then part three is gonna be like, ah! So just, we're gonna give them to you back to back. So they're going to come fast and furious. You won't have to wait for parts for too long. So go right. Now, Robert William Pickton was born October 24th, 1949.

He was born in, and he was raised in Port Co-Quitlam, British Columbia, Canada. All right. I think it's Co-Quitlam. Co-Quitlam. Co-Quitlam. I think it is. Don't tell us either way. I feel like it is.

I feel like it is. Like, you know what? And it's like, I love you, Canada. I think I said it right. I hope I did you proud. Yeah. I just like quadrupled checked it. I literally paused the recording to be like,

I got, I just got to make sure. Yeah, I was right. I don't need Co-Quitlam. Be mentioned in all of those tweets. No, coquitlam. Coquitlam. You got it. He was the middle child of three.

He had three kids all together. So he's the fucking middle. It's the middle child. His sister Linda was born a year before he was and his brother was a younger brother, David. And he was actually a year after that. So it was like boom, boom, boom, boom. Being bang, boom.

His parents are Leonard and Louise Picton. Oh my God, we love a letteration. We do, but we don't love them. Oh, we do not love them. They sound delightful, like Leonard and Louise. Yeah, they sound like they go dancing and I'm frightening. Look at those two little people, no. They don't go dancing at all.

Apparently Louise was a very hard worker. Very hard worker. Leonard was very lazy. So they were like opposites attract. Stinker. But Louise and Leonard were probably best known for their looks. Mm-hmm.

By that, I don't mean like their looks on the runway. I mean like they were very interesting looking people. And not just like, you know, just your strange looking. It's like they like actively made themselves like the scary people in the neighborhood. Really? Yeah. And so Louise specifically purposely just kind of let nature take hold of her out of her appearance.

She felt like I'm going gonna Google while you describe this. Okay. Uh, she kind of let all her teeth rot out of her head. She, you can like die from her hair. Her hair was, oh, it's very dangerous. Like, oral health is very important. And like, I guess, and I'm not saying, like, you know,

there was nothing that could really like, say what happened here, but like all her hair was gone apparently, but she grew a full beard. No. No. No, she did not. She did. No.

And this is only worth mentioning because she kind of became like a local fascination in town. Because she's a fucking bearded lady. Because she was also very loud and very abrasive, like very scared. So she's this like short kind of stout. Woman with no teeth, a full beard.

And why can't I find a picture of it anywhere? I don't know. I couldn't really find one either. I'm pissed. But she was always wearing a house coat over men's jeans. And the jeans were tucked into galoshes. No.

That was her like what she wore every day and she would come out in that house coat, men's jeans and giant galoshes with the things tucked into them and like full beard, no teeth, just screaming at people. I have to wonder if Stacey and Clinton could even. They could even. They even. And, you know, she would scream at small children. Root.

Like, she was just, and she was like, she was a dick. That's clearly. Um, and so like, did the fact that she was just like a little fascinating to look at was just a little fascinating. Was it, was it interesting? She, for that's probably why she's, she's probably just like upset that life dealt her gnarly cards. I don't know. I know. She just seems like, she seems probably just like upset that life dealt her gnarly cards. I don't know.

I know. She just seems like, she seems like she kind of leaned really hard into it. Like she liked this. Listen, if you honestly grow a full beard, if you can say nothing else about the victims, they loved being disgusting. That was like, they relished who they were

and they were, this is who they were, they were foul. I just like chewed some love. I don't know if you heard that. They were decaying living people. It was unbelievable. That's heinous. Truly unbelievable.

And Leonard just looked dirty and horrifying. Like he was like tall and thin. But they, and it's like, they weren't just like ugly people. Like we're not being like, they were ugly, they were filthy, like disgusting, and they didn't give a shit. That's terrible. And they smelled.

Apparently this entire family smelled horrific. Oh no, no, no, no, no. Like horrific. And Leonard was known as Piggy by the other farmers. And because his tank was just unreal. Stop. Yeah. And he his tank was just unreal. Yeah. And he was also super nasty and abusive to his children.

Oh, so fun. And when he wasn't just neglecting them, outright. So either neglecting or being shithead. Yeah. And Willie kind of looked more like his father. Like he had more of like that build and like that look about him. Was that better for him?

I guess I don't think there was really like a good option. Sure. But I suppose if you have to pick one. I don't know. Well, I feel like he would rather look like Mama so he could grow a beard. But I guess I think Dave took after Mama. I'm still beard.

I'm still stuck on it. And Willie was filthy his entire life. They all were, but like Willie was really known. I don't like talking about dirty nests. No, it stresses me out. It makes me want to put teotering on and scrub my half follicles. Well, everyone used to call Willie Ratface.

Stop, that's horrible. And he does have a rat face, so I just want to put this on. Like, when you look at him, you're like, oh, rat face. Like, that's the first thing that comes to you. If you didn't know, he was called Ratface, you would look at him and be like, what, Ratface? Is that his name? Is that his given name? Yeah.

Ratface, Picton, face. Is that his name? Face of a rat. Ratface? Year of the Rat. Yeah, no, he's a ratface. He's a rat bastard, is in, face. Is that his name? Face of a rat. Rat face? Year of the rat. Yeah, no, he's a rat face. He's a rat bastard, is what he is. So the farm animals, so they had a ton of pigs, they had some cattle, but this was mostly

a pig farm. You know what's pig? When he's living in the house, pigs live in outside. It's so funny that these filthy people owned pigs because pigs are among the cleanest animals on earth. I know, but not these pigs because they didn't treat them well at all. They didn't take care of them. But they did allow all the animals

to just walk through the house. That's fucking not. No matter what, they just walk through the house, they could shit in the middle of the house, and no one cleaned it up. Oh, that's not one person in this fucking family cleaned one day in their life. So there's just shit around like no matter what.

We will see later that when people went into this home and onto this property, every single surface and every single wall floor and ceiling was covered in feces, fucking dirt, mud, no, blood, just everything. They didn't clean, when I say they did not clean, there was never a point in the life of this farm that any of this family cleaned.

Sometimes visitors would come and try to clean. No. Why did they have visitors? Oh, just wait. Why did they have visitors? Well, they get to that in part one. Why did they have visitors? Yes, we'll get to some of it.

And boy, boy, boy, howdy. This is green. Boy, howdy. He's a lot. This is so much. So yeah, so animals are walking in the house, they're pissing everywhere, they're shitting everywhere. The kids had to clean out all the pig pens before school. And there was over 200 pigs.

Jesus. They also went, so they went to school directly from cleaning up everything on the farm. Shit. So they sank to high heavens, they were filthy. Oh. And the kids were really only bathed once in a while. What?

Like lucky if they had a bath once in the week. Ew. Yeah. And it was probably like sitting in this dirty water. Oh, oh. Yeah. And where was CPS? Of course, David and Willie immediately

got a reputation, like no one wanted to hang out with them. They were dirty, they were disgusting, which is sad as kids. Like, they don't have a control over that. No, and their sister. And like we always say feel bad for the kid, not the adults.

Absolutely. But at the kid at the time, you're like, that sucks. Yeah, you were like, you were sent off to school to basically get made fun of. Yeah, exactly. Well, and they didn't, these boys didn't really get to hang out with other kids. They were worked to the bone,

and they were pretty much just neglected when they were on the farm, so they were kind of forced, they did farm labor, and then they were just like left to do whatever. This is really reminiscent of Carl Pan's Ram. It is, right? Yeah. It really is. So Linda, the sister, she had a similar experience for sure because she was

growing up in that house, you're going to be stinking. Like literal squalor. But she was at least kind of treated by her mother like a human sometimes, like a human child. Oh, okay. Interesting. What is what happened when the human moments were occurring? She was bathed a little more. Okay. And she would go to like events like birthday parties with other kids and like her mom would buy her dresses and like clean her up. Interesting. Maybe it was like something about like what a mom having a daughter. Yeah. I don't know what it was. And also Willie and his mother were very close. Even though his mother was like pretty fucking terrible to him. It was one of those things. Okay. Kind of like an edgene thing. Right. Right. Like you we hear about

a lot of these serial killers who get very close to their mother and are very obsessive with them. We've talked about them before. Like an edipist call us. But when you look at it, the relationship, you're like, she was terrible to you. Why are you so obsessed with her? Because you're like somehow constantly pining for her approval. Yeah, it's like they need her approval and then they start equating love with pain and humiliation and that's when Chick just goes awry. Now, the Pictons, you'd think they're living in squalor that like disgusting, filthy, horrific,

they had tons of money. Really? Tons of money, they see. Really? They had tons of land and they were selling off chunks of this land, left and right to real estate developers. Wow.

So that's where the money's at, too. It's crazy. That's nuts. Now, there was obviously, this place was not a very good environment to nourish young minds. No. I don't think. I just don't see it.

They were never read to at home, which I like tweeted about this the other day. I feel like, they like bothered me deeply. So like bothered me like deeply. That like children are like going to bed at night and not having a book read to them. Or like, just never sat with their parents and had a book read.

Like that bumps me out. Yeah, that didn't happen in my childhood. And that bumps me out. I can't name you one time, my mom read me a book. That's horrific. My stepmom would read before we went to bed. And like, mom would read. And mom was like throwing books at us left and right.

And that's what's so crazy to me is like, my mom was always like an obsessive reader. She still is. And she was always very, I remember the one thing she always told me was I'll never say no to a book. So if we were out and I wanted a book, I got that book to you'll never say no to a book. We mom would always get like a ton of stuff at like BJs, like a book. So if we were out and I wanted a book, I got that book. Do you remember? Do you remember? Say no to a book. We, Ma would always get like a ton of stuff at like BJ's like go shopping and she would

always go, why don't you girls go in the book section and pick out what you want. Yeah. And we would stand in the book section while she did all the grocery shopping. And no matter what book you wanted. And like no matter how many. Yeah. She was always that way because she was like, I want you reading, read what you want to read. And she always told me, you know, you got to go to bed at a certain time when she was like, I want you reading, read what you want to read. And she always told me, you know, you got to go to bed at a certain time when I was little, but I could sit up and read. It didn't bed.

It was a whole thing. And I think it's important. Yeah. It's like bonding, it's calm, it's safety, it's nourishing your mind, it's like doing so much for you. These kids weren't getting it. Well, there's so many studies about like what reading to your kids, especially even mother babies can do further in life.

Exactly. So because of this and because they're not getting any kind of help at home for school, nobody's really helping these kids at all. Willie's tests and like grades in school were not good. He was not doing well. Because nobody's there to help him. Yeah, he ended up being held back in second grade. And he spent his entire school career really needing extra help to get by and being in classes reserved for children

with special learning needs. But he struggled, like really struggled. Willie and his brother also had like pretty unique speech issues. They could speak, they didn't have like a speech impediment, I wouldn't say. Both of their voices were just really high pitched. And they kind of remained that way a little bit. That probably even added like a layer to all the bully.

Exactly. And then there was also, there was a slight impediment where they just couldn't pronounce certain words and sounds. Okay. I think they had troubles pronouncing like R's, like almost like a Boston accent. Kind of, but it's like, it almost made it sound kind of like babyish, you know? Which I don't think they do, maybe they would do like a W almost instead of an accent. Kind of, but it almost made it sound kind of like babyish, you know, which I don't think they do,

maybe they would do like a W almost instead of an A. Exactly, yeah. Exactly, so it just made it even worse. So, you know, around them, I guess, they, now I read a book that I think everybody should read. It's fucking amazing about this case. I recommend it so highly. It is called On the Farm farm and it's by Stevie

Cameron and it's super long, super in-depth. I mean, they go into so much detail about like every aspect of this case, their lives, everything. I highly recommend it. And in that book, they talk about how the Pictons lived in an area in Coquitlam that they were kind of surrounded by like, you know, people that were really well off because again, they're pretty well off. They were like, squalor, but like, you would never know that they had a ton of money. But there was a lot of like doctors who lived in the area, lawyers.

So the kids, the victim kids are going to school with these doctors and lawyer's kids who are treating them like shit because that's just what else is to care like dirty farm kids. So one of these kids talked later and was talking about how they kind of like treated them shitty and I just had to write this quote down from this one. Was this gonna make me really sad?

Woman who said that she was like a doctor's child just because, oh no, I think it's gonna make you be like, that's ridiculous. Oh God. Just the end quote, the end sentence in this as like, you're anybody who has to say that. I'm like, you're a shock, doesn't she? Yeah, I'm like, you're ridiculous.

Hit me with it. We were all terrible to the victims, especially Robert Willie. I remember all of us on the road taunting him. We'd say to each other, just let him, just let us add him now and we'll make him talk. How were they different? Dirty and stinky. They always had their hair cut in a brush cut.

Man, they stunk. Their house was a poor house with no yard and falling down fences. There were no big trees, only some shrubs. I even remember them at school. I don't even remember them at school at all, but I do remember them waiting for the school bus. Our bunch was mostly all doctors' kids. We were the best dress and had the nicest houses. Almost everyone in the group is successful now. I bet you're not literally, like that's a cunt. I bet you're not. Yeah, like what a dick.

Like what the fuck? They all sucked and they lived in a world. Like who cares if their house is dead? Who's the thing? Willie Picton is an absolute demon piece of shit. Like he should rot for all eternity. Fuck that guy. Right. I just think anybody who has to be like, yeah, we were totally terrible

to them when they were kids. And then to be like, we had the best clothes and we had the nicest houses. And we're all successful now, like fuck off. I just, it's very elite. It just rubbed me the wrong way. I was like, you don't, what the fuck? And also, why are you still stuck in middle school?

Like you, and the thing about that quote that I had to include it, because I was like, you tell me nothing that everybody else doesn't know. But then you have to add in at the end, like, I'm successful. I'm so successful. And I had the best clothes when I was a kid.

Okay. Okay. Awesome. It was just so fun. It was like a nice little like haha, what I was going to get because who boy you need a lot of. It's like a power cleanser because again, Willie, you feel bad for him when he's a kid, but then oh boy, you don't feel bad for him.

He erases that real quick later in life. Now, according to a lot of people who knew the victims, apparently Willie was said to have once hidden in the carcass of slaughtered pigs if he wanted to hide away from people. So not once, like a few times, would hide in the carcasses of slaughtered pigs just to like, if he didn't want to talk to someone, he was just like, I'll just hang out near. That in and of itself is a case study. It's like in Star Wars, when they like open that like animal and like, play it in it.

It's the same thing. Yeah. It's exactly that. But at, this is really sad. This is like really gonna, again, you get a lot of like sympathy for him as a child. Don't worry. It will, it will worry. It will.

We'll remove it all later. But what happens? When he was 12 years old, he had a calf that he bought. No, don't, don't, don't you buy it at three and a half weeks. He spent $35 on it. He had saved up for it and he wanted to keep it as a pet. He didn't want this to be like a farm animal. It was like his animal.

He was so happy. He didn't want this to be like a farm animal. It was like his animal. He was so happy. He loved feeding it. He would like run home from school every day and feed it. And he just wanted to take care of it. And he said it was, quote, as pretty as the day is long. No, shut up. One day he came home from school and it was missing. So he frantically went everywhere.

He's panicking. He's asking his parents. He's asking everyone. And they're like, maybe it just ran away. Like, I don't know. And he was like, what the hell, I don't know what to do. And then I think it was his father that was like, maybe you should look in the barn,

which to me, when you find out what happens, you're like, wow, you're a demon. What did he do to it? When he looked in the barn, the calf was dead hanging upside down by a hook. They had butchered his pet. For me, or just to be honest, they had just butchered it for me.

Willie lost it. And Louise offered him money to buy a new one. Why would he go get another one if you're just gonna do the same fucking thing? And he was devastated. Like absolutely devastated. There's a quote in the same book from Willie himself and he says, and here I see the calf hanging upside down there.

They butchered my calf on me. Oh boy, I was mad. I couldn't talk to anybody for three or four days. I locked everybody out of my own mind. I didn't want to talk to anybody. That really upset me, but that happens. That's life. I mean, we're only here for so long

when your time is over, your time is over. Oh. Wow. That's one way to get through it. That's just like... only here for so long when your time is over, your time is over. Oh. Wow. That's one way to get through it. That's just like, so is this a case of, do you feel this is a case of nature versus nurture and it's definitely nurture? I think nurture plays a really big role in this.

Do you think that if he grew up with a different family, like an amazing family, he would have done all this? I don't know, because when you find out what he does, he's real fucked up. But he's real fucked up. This house seems like it would fuck something. Well that's the thing. I think that this, I mean,

I definitely think nurture had a huge role in this. But then I do. You have to think he had two siblings and they didn't go on to do things like this. Dave grew up to be a shit head too. But so, like a murder? No, well, no. I can't say confirmed.

Not confirmed. I mean, nothing, there's no charges against him or anything like that, but like I wouldn't be shocked. Like if he came out that all of a sudden they were like, oh look, he did it too. The sister Linda. Linda moved away from the family and she turned out great. But here's the thing, she was treated a little bit better.

And she moved away from the family pretty early on. Right, so I mean, so that she was raised a little bit better. And she moved away from the family pretty early on. Right. So, I mean, so that she was raised in a different environment pretty much. You can say that nature versus nurture. And maybe it's nurture. Yeah, maybe it was like, you know, partially this whole like raising him this way, neglecting, abusing, treating him like this, and then also bringing him around because of course, kids who grow up on a farm like learn how to slaughter animals they see stuff.

But I think that on top of how they were treating him already really like melded into something terrible. Yeah. It was like a deadly mixture. Exactly. Now at 14 years old he ended up leaving school for good. It's a strange story. I guess he had like bought a pen at the store that was what do you remember those pens that you'd like turn one way and

Something would like come down. No Okay, well there was these cool pens. Sorry. There was one that was like There was a lady on the pen and then you'd like flip it this way and her like dress would fall off Oh, that's a lot. I didn't have that pen, but I'm sure but will he had that pen? He bought that pen so it's like a naked lady, and then you turn it the other way, and the clothes go back on. That's funny.

It's like, yeah, it's just like a gagged thing. Well, the principal at school threatened to beat him if he didn't get rid of the pen. Okay, that's one way to handle it. And so Willie was like, bye, and just left. Okay, so. It never came back. I love that that was the straw that broke Willie's back.

Yeah, that was it. That was the naked lady that broke Willie's back. That was it, the naked lady pen that were naked ladies. No, the two boys ended up taking on a lot more workload at the farm. Now that they weren't in school. Yeah, and David was still in school, but he was still taking up a big load.

And before Willie had even left school, they would leave midday, midday during the school day, to come home, swap the pigs and then come back. Now, what does swap the pigs mean? I'm not quite sure. Okay. I think it's like feed. Oh, okay. Like do throw it on that. That's what I think slop the thing. I think it's just like pig things, just pig things to yeah. Just like just pig things. Can't talk right now, I'm doing pig things shit. I think it's yeah, whatever things pigs need,

I think that's what sloping is, I'm pretty sure. All righty. Let us know. Do you have a pig? HMU slop it? I don't know. Sounds rough. Look, it doesn't sound nice. like I want to like nourish my pain really does And then the boys both started flat out missing school and that's when Willie like left school anyways

But David was missing school all the time. They were both exhausted and filthy all the time There wasn't even a shower in the house And there was like a basin for bathing. No. Now, in 1963, they moved to another farm, and they actually took the farmhouse they had and moved it, they moved the shit house. Why would you not just get a new house?

I, because they are the victims. But they're shit in there, living the victims. They're rich, you know why? Because they like living and shit. in there, they're the victims. They're rich. You know why? Because they like living and shit. This is how they like to be. Do you think that they're just like one with the animals? No, I think they're just disgusting animals themselves.

Oh, right. Horrifying. So they moved from the place they were at first, which was Dawes Hill to 963 Dominion Avenue. At this new place, they had 700 pigs. They like really, they busted this out. 700 pigs. Now Linda, the sister, was like, goodbye. She was like, you know what,

I'm gonna go stay with other family and Vancouver because she was like, you're all fucking gross. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna get out of here. She was like, there's 700 pigs here and I don't think we need another, bye. She was like, I'm gonna take my leave. I out of here. She was like, there's 700 pigs here, and I don't think we need another. She was like, I'm gonna take my leave. I think this is my time to like, soft shoe out of here, goodbye. I'm surprised I let her.

Let that, that, that, that, that, that. I guess it's like one. Yeah, I think she was just like, bye. Wow, okay. She basically didn't really have a lot of contact, especially with the parents after this. Why, I wonder. That's so strange.

I know. She did talk to her brothers later once in a while, but it was only for business things, basically, because they were still running the farm once the parents died. So when Willie left school for good at 14, Dave was still in school, like I said. And weirdly, he like dated a ton, was like super gross.

Now who the mother thought's dead? Yeah, stinky Dave. I think the whole world, I think all of Canada still has this. They're all like, like show yourselves. Like, I'm not even a show your face. Yeah, show your face because he was disgusting. Like, he was disgusting. You said, you said so.

Fowl. Stinky. Like, rotten meat. Like, what makes Stinky Chop's Ramirez look like? Literally, a smother fucker alive. Stanky Chop's, his breath smelled like wet leather, everybody said, which to me, when they, when you say wet leather, I'm like,

you just did it and I, I get worse than that. That made him look like Mr. Clean, like, save Stanky Chop's head, throw a white t-shirt. Good to go. Exactly, but I guess in the school, Dave was like, somewhat normal when it came to interacting with peers and stuff. He just kind of like, I don't know.

I don't know. He's smelly, but churny. He's disgusting. He looks like the inside of a hemorrhoid feels like it would look like. And smells like an infected sore. But, but like, let's hang with this. All right, so listen, I'm gonna need you to be-

Let's hang with this. I'm gonna need you to get past this part because I cannot handle it. I just gotta do it. I shower sometimes two times a day if I get sweaty. I mean, I love being clean. If that's not your bag, that's not your bag. Being clean is my favorite thing on the planet.

Definitely. Nothing like washing that's not your bag. Being clean is my favorite thing on the planet. Definitely. And nothing like washing your hair and your body. And it's like keeping up with yourself. Glendliness is definitely a big thing for me. It's key. If it's not for you, like that's cool, if you're life. Like don't murder people also. Because if you are dirty and murder people, that's boom, boom.

Don't be dirty though, it's not healthy. It's not healthy, that's true. It's not good for anyone. Now either way Once Dave or once Willie left school the two of them were basically full-time farm hands at this point Willie was given the task because he was at a school now so they were like, okay We're gonna teach you how to become a butcher and like a slaughter I was probably the worst thing they ever taught him

Certainly was because he started training to slaughter the pigs in cattle. He would slaughter as many as two dozen animals in one day alone. That's a lot of animals to slaughter. 24. That's a lot. And this kind of became his thing. No. Like he loved it.

So that's very good at it. He loved it. If you're a butcher like, wow, he cause how he get it. Thanks for the steak. Yeah. Sorry if you're a butcher, like, wowie, because howie, get it. Thanks for the steak. Yeah. Sorry if you're a vegan, trigger warning. But you shouldn't like enjoy the, he was enjoying like the killing. Oh, he was enjoying the process a little too much.

I feel like you should enjoy the process. No, you shouldn't, you should just do it. Like, this is just something I do. And he kind of did it hurt, like pretty horrifically too. I don't, I didn't make it quick. One thing I didn't do was like look into exactly how you slaughter a pig because like I'm I want to be honest. I'm not really interested in reading about that But I did see and just like trigger warning because this whole thing has like animal things in it

Like I'm not gonna talk super like a ton about it But I just wanted it sprinkled in there. It's not for everybody because it's really not for me It's really not it's not for everybody. Because it's really not for me. It's really not. It's not for me. Now, people would like who later we'll see people, if this farm becomes a hangout later. What the fuck? I know, it's weird.

But people are round and people would come in and like see him slaughtering things and would kind of like hang around and watch him do it, like just to see it. Even that is pretty bizarre. And see his methods. What he would do, which was really weird, and I'm sure other people are going to think this is weird, is he would shoot the pigs sometimes in the forehead with a nail gun.

I don't think that's part of like slaughtering and butchering. I don't think that's part of it. There's no way. Doesn't seem humane to me, because then he would just slice their artery on the back of the leg, stick a hook in it and hoist them up by their back legs and then just let them bleed to death. Yeah, that's not how you do it.

That makes me so sad. So right here, because pigs also, pigs are one of the very intelligent. Their pigs are smarter than dogs. Yeah, they're very intelligent. They're like literally like top of the list. Oh yeah. So they knew what was happening.

Yeah. It's horrific. I hate that. I need to go home right now and hug for a moment. I know. I know it made me want to I like snuggled. This has been such a week for me with Franklin and Lux. So the fact that we're doing this right now, like, I'm sorry. We won't talk too much about the animals. Well, it just has to be it's part of him. Yeah. As a horrible person. Um, of course, he would just like, you know, slaughter the animal, like, got it and everything, and he would catch the blood and everything underneath. And, you know, a neighbor said that they remember going into the home and it was fucking disgusting.

Like a neighbor was like, I had to go in there once for something and it was like, and I never did that again. Like, we had all heard about it, but you are not prepared for it until you see it. He said there was no furniture at all. What? It was just garbage everywhere,

and he said in the middle of the living room, there was just a dirty mattress on the floor. And he said there was just like food, dirt, garbage, everywhere. Can you imagine? The bugs. Exactly. He said there were bugs crawling everywhere. Flying around. Flying around. And then he said,

with weird, he said all of the kitchen cabinets had locks on them and only Louise had the key. What the fuck? And I read that in the on the farm book. Like that's all for me. Fuck, fuck, fuck, I hate it. So the mother was like locking food away from them. It's all for me. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, I hate it. So the mother was like locking food away from them. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.

In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one

that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute run down every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious

New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, aka Mommy Doomstays Motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today! Well, like what the f-

I just feel so closer. Now they were raising these pigs obviously to be slaughtered. That's what this is. It's a meat they wanted. They were in the pigs obviously to be slaughtered. That's what this is. It's a meat they wanted. They were in the meat business. How do you need 700 of them now? Well, in 1965, the family registered a business as B and C frosted foods.

And frosted foods meaning like frozen meat, you know. Louise was like the head of the business. She ran that trip. She ran that family and she ran that business. Louise was the one in charge. She sounds, I wanna know more about her child. She's a lot. I really wanna know about her child.

Maybe I'm trying to look for it for the party. I can find it. I don't know if I'll find anything, but I'll look. Yeah. And the farm was registered as B&C Frosted Food Bank. So this was the 60s. So not a lot of people have like big meat freezers. It just wasn't like a prevalent thing.

Just a little ice box. And if you're gonna buy meat, like big things of frozen meat, especially like a butchered, like fresh meat, you need to keep it cold. Yeah. It's very important. And people didn't have the means to do that,

but they needed the meat. So the pickedins decided to take advantage of the fact that they were making bank on like selling real estate and use the cash to buy up a ton of industrial freezers, like a hundred of them. And they used these to set up a business where they could keep the meat that customers bought from their farm, so they would store it for them

if they didn't have means to keep it. It was pretty smart. And they also helped like other farmers store meat there. And locals referred to this place as the meat locker, but in reality, Louise changed the name of the business and she changed the name to B&C lockers at the end of it. So she kind of like leaned into what people were calling it. Here's the thing though. If their house is that mother fucking gross, why do you want those people storing your food?

Uh, you don't. I also hint hint don't want the meat that they're selling. No, why tell me right now. I can tell you right now. You tell me. I will not tell you. You are the serving human. I don't know bitch. No, I did not know you right now. I'm not serving human. I don't know, bitch. No. No. I did not know that was part of this. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's. Part one or part two, tell me right now. We'll go with part two.

Oh, you go third. I'll go third. Sort of a B. So October 17th, 1967. What happens? This is the first big like oh boy this family is fucked moment like but no, but I mean like before this you're like it's a gross family yeah like you're just like now we're adding fucked on top of it

yeah like before this you're kind of like what what the like what leather faces family looks like before you know that they kill people you're like wow this is a gross family not one of these people yeah just like a lot is going on here. Well, October 17th, 1967, David, the younger brother, got his license. And he's using the trucks that the farm uses, like his dad's truck. One day, he's driving the truck.

And he hits a 14 year old boy walking down the street. This boy's name was Timothy Barrett, and he was walking home from a friend's home. So David hit him, like pretty hard, and then panicked and drove back home to the farm, leaving this kid bleeding in the middle of the road. Jesus. So he immediately tells his parents, he tells Louise and Leonard, and they just,

their first thought is not like, oh, we need to call the police. Their first thought is, okay, let's look at the damage on the truck. Okay. So they go out, they see giant damage in the truck. There's like, they said it was like, like a bowl-shaped dent, where obviously from his head. I believe it was from his head. And the truck had blood all over it, and they did what any parents would do. They had David bring the truck to the family mechanic

to fix the dent and pain over the blood. And the family mechanic was like, sure. And this was like, sure, sure, sounds good. And Louise went to look for Timothy, because she was like, oh, you hit someone, where'd you hit him? Okay. I'm gonna go find him real quick.

Why? So the mechanic when David brought the truck to him was like, okay, what happened? And he was like, okay, I can fix this dent because he was like, which he said it was weird because all their vehicles would be to shit. And he was like, and all the paint was flaking off and he was like, it was weird that he came in

to fix this one. He's frantically needing me to fix this dent and paint over this stuff. Like he was like, why does this matter to you guys are disgusting? Why would this matter? Cause it's evidence. So the mechanics freaked out.

He fixes the dent, but he's like, I'm not painting over whatever that is. Like he was like, you can figure that out. I'm not painting over that very evident blood. Yeah, he was like, I'm not getting involved in this. So David told him, you know, I was like doing stuff on the farm and he said something about like a log fell over and like fell on the front of the chair.

And started bleeding. It's the craziest thing. He was like so weird. And the mechanic was like, yeah, that doesn't match up with the damage, but like, again, I'm not at all on the surface. I don't want to deal with this. So he knew something bad was happened,

but he also was really nervous to push it because he was like, the pickedins are fucked and I don't want to deal with this. So he knew something bad was happened, but he also was really nervous to push it because he was like the Pictons are fucked and I don't want to be part of this like yeah, I don't know what's going on here. So meanwhile Louise Found Timothy badly hurt still in the middle of the road still lying there and her motherly instincts told her not to call for medical attention. Well, she doesn't have motherly. But instead they told her to roll this boy 10 feet off the road into a ditch and then leave him there and go home. Are you fucking kidding me? Their mother rolled this boy bleeding this 14-year-old boy in the middle of the road that her son hit with his car into a ditch and then just went home.

Like, I feel like that makes the problem 10 times worse than just calling the police about a hit and run. Oh, don't worry, it did. Because when Timothy's family didn't hear from him, they formed a search party and called the police and they eventually stumbled upon his shoe in the middle of the road. She had not moved to that. It was his father who was a Royal Canadian Air Force member

by the way, who found his shoe. And when he picked it up, he said to his friend who was helping Royal Canadian Air Force member by the way, who found his shoe and when he picked it up he said to his friend who was helping with the search, oh my god this is Tim's shoe. Oh no. Which I can't even imagine. No, no, no. So they follow, they can see blood and they follow to the ditch and found Timothy dead in the ditch. He had been pushed into water at the bottom of the ditch. His father apparently collapsed.

Obviously. Dr. CJ Cody, who's a pathologist at the Royal Columbian Hospital in New Westminster, was the one who performed the autopsy. And what they found was that Tim had a dislocated and fractured pelvis. Oh, which you know about that. He had hemorrhaging in the back of his head

and hemorrhaging all of his body. A fractured skull with a subcranial hemorrhage that it, but he didn't die from any of those injuries. No. And none of those injuries were technically life-threatening. Mm-hmm. Yeah, though he absolutely could have been saved. He had died when he drowned in the ditch. With all of that damage on his body already. Louise murdered him. Yes. Now luckily, the mechanic was watching the evening news, saw this and he was like, oh, no.

Like this is too much, like I feel like this has, so he called the police. Good. And he was like, I just got to tell you what happened. Like he came in, he looked for me to do this, like there was damage, I feel like it's connected. He's like, let's keep this anonymous as fuck. He was like, please don't tell them it's me. Now, police searched the victim place

and matched paint from their vehicle to Tim's body. Oh my God. Since he was a juvenile at the time, David was placed on probation and just had his license revoked until 21. What about Louise? Did they not find out that that's what she did? Exactly.

He was charged with leaving the scene of an accident. How about the leaving the scene of a death? But they didn't like, they were just like, oh, ridiculous. Yeah, it's insane to me. That's nuts. Insane to, I mean, this woman murdered a child. Like, they are literally demons.

It's all of them. Terrifying. It starts from the it starts from the ground up. And they're all family. Yeah, it's horrific. Now let's go to New Year's Eve 1978. Do I want to ding dong Leonard died. Sorry Leonard. By Leonard it sounds like he sucked. He sucked too. He was an abusive asshole. Right. So David moved his like apparently like no, I'm just too upset about it. Right. So David moved his, like apparently, like, no, was too upset about it. But David ended up moving his 17 year old girlfriend, Sandy, into

house. And how old is he at this point? He at this point, I think, was 20 something. Okay. Yeah. Like not crazy older, but still. They ended up having two children together, okay, named Tammy and Douglas John, who they call DJ. They soon split because obviously David is like a monster. So, and she moved to the kids away with her. Good. Now, Willie was apparently devastated because he was in love with Sandy.

Bitch. Like obsessed. He had asked her to marry him once. That's not a nice thing. And she was like, no, thank you. She was like, I'm actually with your brother. She's like, no. And I'm actually on my way out.

And she's like, you're actually at, like, more than disgusting, but thank you. She's like, so is your brother, and I realize that. Exactly. So that's interesting. Sandy does come back later, but same year, in, what was it, 1978, there was a fire on the farm and it killed 600 pigs.

Oh, no. Which is devastating and also devastating to the business. Like that's huge. I don't think I'm gonna talk about their business. But just saying. So Willie had begun to have, at this point, he like started to have this like, it's not normally weird, but was for him.

I'm like, everything he does is weird. Yeah. He loved collecting pen pals, mostly in all women. Yeah. He only wanted to talk to women. Um, and he actually visited one of his favorites, a girl named Connie Anderson. And she lived in Pontiac, Michigan and claimed later that so

in, excuse me. And then later he claimed that when he went out there to visit her, that he was approached to become a male model. Honey. But that he turned it down. That's like when the people approached you in the mall and you take it serious. Yeah, and it's just, if that even happened. And he said it was like on the way to Pontiac, Michigan, like he stopped in a few areas

and he was like, one day I was just walking down the street and they were like do you want to be in pictures? It's just, and when they said pictures you don't think they meant horror films. Like fucking wily thing, like he's a fucking goblin. He's the worst. His shit radiates from the inside out. That's why he's so ugly because he's so horrific inside. And it's like for him to sit there and even now he just claiming he's gonna be a male model like fuck you dude. Your nickname was rat face, get out of here. He's just a worse model for like how to not take care of your sins. And

it's I know what he's done. So like I'm able to separate like this like sadness for like obviously. Yeah. And it's like he's trust me. You're gonna be like, but yeah. And after visiting with Connie, he said, he thought they were like, he basically said they were engaged. He was like, we met each other.

We fell in love for a gauge. Did Connie later say, no. Yeah, later he got home and Connie was like, no, like we're not engaged. I think they kind of like, it seemed very juvenile. They're the whole thing. Sure. But it's just like an interesting little tidbit. In 1979, the next year, Louise died from cancer. R.I.D. A murderer. So, Willie

was devastated. He was the only one who was truly devastated, apparently. Everyone else just kind of moved on. Listen, David's asked about her have been devastated. Yeah, his mom, like that straight up murder point you. She really put it all out there for you. But Willie was really sad because he was really close to his mother. He had actually taken care of her until her death. Like, he bathed her, he changed her, he fed her. Nice of him to bathe her, because she didn't bathe you when you were a kid.

But she left, and this is even further of a kick in the ass to Willie. So she left Linda and David in charge of the farm. Linda left Yoass. And David is the youngest. Yeah, that's shitty. Like what? And left them money, but said in her will that only,

so Willie was left money as well, but he couldn't get his money right away. Only he couldn't get his money right away. Only he couldn't get his money right away. Why? Not until he turned 40, and only if he stayed at the farm until he turned 40. 40, he was pissed. Well, and why?

She just did that to be a bitch. No idea what she thought. I don't know if she was thinking, he was irresponsible with that. Yeah, I don't know if she knew what he was deep down inside and was trying to stop him from going out in the world or stop him from having the available resources to further what he was.

I don't know. Or I don't know if that was just her being like, fuck you. I'm just gonna fuck with you from the grape. That's so weird. It's very strange. Now, David at this time, because now they all own the farm,

Linda's moved away still, so she's just kind of dealing with it from afar, but Willie and Dave now are running this farm. Right. David had also started a business like delivering topsoil, and he was taking it from the farm, but the farm soil was all contaminated and shit, so he was selling like fucked up topsoil. He didn't care. And he also got another girlfriend named Vicki Evans at the time and he moved her in. There's a ton of this like where girls move in here. Girls move out. It's a ton.

And Willie was actually good to her two younger sisters who were like young, they were like 14 and six, they would come to the farm and to like see the animals, and like see the filth. And I guess he was really good to them. I, by all accounts, he seemed to be very good with kids, which is very random. It's always strange when that's like the one weird, weirdly like not redeemable characteristic, but like a, the characteristic that you just don't think you're gonna see. So Ed Kemper doesn't Ed Kemper like read children stories and prison he like reads audiobooks That's why yeah, he's strange. So He's pretty strange That's one way to describe Edmund Kemper. I want to talk to him someday

So will he stopped at this point trying to become like a butcher? He stopped he was because he was in like an apprenticeship. Like that was what they started him on. He was six and a half years into an apprenticeship. He only had six months to go. Before he would get a certificate that would allow him to work as a butcher anywhere in Canada.

So we could have gotten out of there. And he just stopped. Yeah, he just stopped. And he started getting junk cars and like buying cars at auctions that he would let just like rot on the farm. So that's why his mom didn't give him all money. And I guess he did get a small sum up from his mom,

but that was it. He wasn't getting the rest until 40. And he was just still being disgusting. And the farm was getting worse and worse because now there's cars rotting on the property. Like the top soil business is just now there's cars rotting on the property. Like the topsoil business is just like, there's more trust in there. Imagine the topsoil business while the cars

are like rotting into the earth. Yeah, exactly. Like spilling out like gas and fuel and shit. Like really damaged people in Canada. Well soon their business ventures turned into more and more legal shit. So David started gambling. It's crazy.

It's crazy. It's crazy. Let me see. I know I don't know if you just heard me read just. Like I can't, I can't. Let me get cozy. Now David started dabbling in demolition. So he was starting to do like, you know, is that a legal?

No, this wasn't really like a legal issue. Oh, because like he was demoing like properties and stuff with a company. But Willie began working with the local hell's angels. And so was David. Now they were having, that's when we get like into the illegal shit. That's usually when things go awry here.

He was using the farm to store stolen cars there with the hell, it was like a whole connection thing. And he would take those stolen cars apart and he would sell the parts. So it was basically becoming a chop shop now. All the farm. Yes. So now there's all these cars everywhere.

They're all torn apart, this parts everywhere. Oh man. It's illegal. And apparently though, Willie was very adept at cars. Oh, like he didn't have any formal training at all, but he was like, he could take a part of that. So he could take a part of that. He could put it back together.

He could fix anything on it. It was just something he was very good at. That was slaughtering, apparently. That's really hard. It is. It's a weird talent to randomly just have. So not learned. While this is happening, they're still trying to make the farm run as a pig and meat business,

but it was madness. So they hired some younger guys to work at the farm. A lot of these guys that they were hiring were like Nair duels, you know, I mean like they're not like the cream of the crop here. No Willie would basically Say he would pay them and then he would just not pay them like they were always doing scams like that But then the hells angels Would intimidate them and make them steal cars for them

So these young kids are coming on the farm and now being forced to steal cars. Because being bullied into fucking crime. Now the cops at the time kind of knew this was all happening and we're basically like, eh, I don't know what to do about it. Like whatever, I'm not doing that shit. I'm actually not heading out to the pink to farm. Not heading out to farm.

I'd like to get my lunch in my tummy. And like I said, the farm is now becoming a place for Nairdwells to hang out. [♪ Bouncy music playing, Bouncy music playing, and Willie ran it like basically anyone, because he had these weird things where he saw himself as like someone who helped people.

Like Robin Hood. Yeah, like he said anyone down on their lock could just come to the farm. So then it just became- How they knew they were down on their luck. Yeah, that's how you know when you're going to the Picton farm. It's actually synonymous with rock bottom. And at this point, Dave is getting driving violations because as we know from the other story,

Dave is not a great driver. He actually committed sexual assault on a female worker at a construction site. He somehow got her into a trailer on the work site and sexually assaulted her. She got a slap on the wrist for that because his criminal friends started intimidating her to drop the charges. Oh, that's awful.

Yeah. So he's a piece of shit. That's why when I said Dave is like, I don't know. He's probably just a little more quiet on that issue. So she, this girl ended up moving to another city. Oh, like it was a horrible. Now he was a dick still and he's starting to date multiple women.

He's abusing women like he's awful too. Vicki left him after 11 years, which was about the fuck you used you stayed in there for 11 years. Well, he immediately replaced her with another woman named Kathy Wayanberg. She was a mother of two. She and a woman named Karen Kaufman were basically always at the farm during these days. And there were rager parties on the farm now with like bikers and shit. It was bonkers.

This is not real. This is what I'm talking about. This doesn't sound real. No, this is not real. Because this place became like a place for like all the like criminals of the underworld to just converge on and just rage. Like they were just, there was so much drugs on this,

like so many drugs on this farm There was illegal shit happening all the time like women were getting sexually assaulted like We'll find out later. There's even more shit going on. It's just it's like I can't even when does the meth lab get built It's honestly. It's probably already there now They would all just like it's so good., they would like dance party, have like bonfires and just like all this stuff. And but Willie just kinda like hung around. He was a lurker.

He was quiet. Willie was a wallflower. He was, like people said they remember him during these days as being like somewhat pleasant, just like quiet and shy. Like he would hang around for a little while and then not participate. Okay. One weird thing is that one afternoon,

Dave brought Kathy and Karen down to the basement in the house because he was like, I wanna show you where Willie, like I wanted to just show you who Willie is. And they were like, what? I'd be like, I don't want to. Now Willie's bedroom was in the basement. And it's like a whole farmhouse and they were like's bedroom was in the basement. And it's like a whole farm house

and they were like, you stay in the basement. It was dark and dank and like filthy in there. Of course. He only had a mattress on the floor. That's it. The mattress had a large dark stain in the middle of it. Which I just like take a moment. Oh, it's probably just, sweat, just jizz,

and I touch in, and feel like I'm gonna, I will be shocked by part three, I haven't thrown up once. He also had one book of local history. Oh, sweetie. And then he also had a taxidermied horse head on the wall and it was his horse Goldie who he loved

and he had taxidermy. Oh, great. Oh, great. Now, they're standing there and Dave is basically showing them like my brother's real gross. Like, and being like, he was like, I know that he's very quiet and like, unassuming, but like, don't trust him. Okay.

Which they were like, okay. While they're standing there, Willy showed up and you didn't go into Willie's room. Because that was a no now. What was he hiding? All kinds of shit. Well, he said, if you bring them here again, I'll kill both of them.

Okay. Like, he literally said that and they were like, oh, I'd be like, we'll be going now. Then over dinner that night, he threw a glass of milk in Karen's face. Like, just something got in Karen's face. Like just so he got to know where. Okay. Yeah.

Root. And she, after that, she stopped coming to the farm. She was like, I have had enough of that. That's weird. And she said rumors started circling that the Picton brothers were making snuff films, and that the meat on the farm was not just animal meat. And she said she would never eat meat from that farm. She was like, I didn't, I wouldn't do that even when I was hanging at the farm was not just animal meat, and she said she would never eat meat from that farm. She was like, I wouldn't do that even when I was

hanging at the farm. Oh my God. Oh my God. They supplied meat to a lot of Canada. Oh! Oh! Oh! Yep.

They, yeah, yeah. And you know, I don't, I, oh. This is ready for the, you wanna hear it? No, no, just give me a second. Let me, let me submit more into you And I don't, oh, this is ready for the, you wanna hear it? No, just give me a second, can you? Let me cement more into what kind of people we're dealing with. I think I know, I think I did.

I think I did. I think I did. There was a sign that said we're trash. No stress passing pit bull with aides. Oh. So these are the kind of people we're talking on. In case anybody feels any kind of like, oh, these people are just like weird and like fucked up.

Don't feel bad for them. Just in case, cause like I know sometimes when you hear about like a sad childhood, it's hard to like separate. This is not hard to disassociate. Let me just tell you, these are the lowest of the low shit heads. That's so shit. Yeah. Now around this time,

Willie started bringing parts left over from slaughter to a rendering plant called West Coast Reduction. Rendering plants basically like render down the leftover. It's like you drop off the leftover portions you can't use after slaughter like bones, feathers, you know, hair, all that shit. And they like render it down into gelatin a lot of times and it's used in like candy and makeup and like other things that like people to use.

Which is fine because usually they check these things, they make sure that they're like, whatever buckets are coming in are like what they say they are. But he did it so often that he became kind of a regular and they wouldn't even check his buckets. Oh no. So they would just wave him in.

So there was like a dead body in your mascara. When he couldn't bring them there himself, like sometimes when he couldn't get a card, like he just didn't want to or he couldn't, he would have like the rendering plant drivers because they would come and like pick up your stuff. Yeah. And they'd bring them in for them.

And one worker named Jim Cress recalled picking up some barrels for Willie And he said after a while he noticed that there was like legit meat in the buckets and he was like You don't render down meat like you saved me or like not to make sense And then he said the meat appeared black and enlarged portions. Is it like people's organs? It could have been like decay Yeah And in large portions. Is it like people's organs? It could have been like decay. Yeah. Or it could have been, you know, somebody that had black skin. It also could have been somebody that had been beaten.

Uh-huh. And their skin had turned black. It could have been somebody that was burned. Uh-huh. Any number of things, because he said he was weird. He didn't want to look at it, and he just kind of like moved about. He said it was really scary and he didn't want to. Did he take those buckets? I think he got rid of those ones, but he said it was weird.

He was like, there shouldn't be meat in rendering buckets. And he said it was like a lot of meat. Okay. Yeah. So, when Willie began going to this rendering plant pretty regularly, it was in town. And it was in a place called the downtown east side in Vancouver. It was a pretty well-known block of, like, basically where a lot of sex workers were. There was a lot of areas that were like very well-known, like drug hangouts, like places people could get drugs.

Yeah. It was just like, there were parts that were very, just like not the best parts in town. Very scary. There were other parts that were like fine, but like there was just, you know, there was a lot going on. So during this time that he's going down here, he started looking for sex workers because he's like, I'm here, I'm lonely, why not? Yeah.

So he started picking them up regularly. Oh my God. Yeah. And if you were a sex worker and Willie picked in, was like, you, you, I'd be like, no, you couldn't give me enough money. Oh yeah, there's plenty of women that were like, no, thank you, sir.

Oh man. Thank you, sir, no, sir. No, sir. So, no, sir, no, sir. So, yeah, it's no good. You, I need, I need you to just, ugh. Yeah, yeah, I really really I don't love it

How did you research this? There's a lot also who why did you want to hear about this guy? There's so much I'm not shaving you at all remember so Karen had moved out She was not coming to the farm any milk to the face now Kathy the one who was living there with Dave at that point She moved out with her two daughters eventually. My gosh, she was like the daughters. She was like the daughters. She was like the daughters. Now the farm was getting worse and worse by this point.

I love that every few paragraphs. It's like, now the farm was getting worse. It's getting even worse and it does. It gets worse. Now it's legitimately littered with old rotting cars and just garbage everywhere. Dave started forcing his employees, like his drivers or people who worked on the farm

to participate in stealing cars for him, like on the regular now. Every night the farm was a fucking madhouse. There was just all the drivers and workers would come back and party and like the bikers would come, like drugs every, it just became every single night. It is insane. Yeah, and they basically, everybody who came

said they just knew Willie is like the dirty, stinky, quiet, weird guy. Okay. That's just what they all do. And Dave was like a giant asshole to Willie, even though he was a younger brother. He would just like allow people to like steal shit out of his room and stuff.

Like he was just a dick and they would let, like people just like teased him and treated him like shit. Yeah. So he did develop a crazy insane temper because he was just constantly obviously fight people. Yeah. And at one point Dave and him,

they got in fights all the time. They just did not get along. And it's interesting because like it didn't seem like throughout his childhood, he showed any like rage or anger. No, there isn't any real like indication of that. No, but- Other than like the pigs.

Yeah, exactly. I think that was like how he got through it almost. But him and Dave had this huge knockdown drag out fight and Dave kicked Willie out of the house, was like get out. Oh. So Willie ended up sleeping on a freezer in the barn for literally months. Oh, wow.

Yeah, and he just didn't care. He was like whatever I'll sleep on here. Okay. Like that was probably like, he was like, cool. Now David ended up buying some mobile homes for his business, like the demolition business that they would like put on the job sites. And he let Willie live in one in the back of the property

because he was like, here, now we can be like, because you know, we can stay away from each other now and everyone has a place to stay. You have your privacy, like they kind of were trying to like mend it. Yeah, just make it better. They're brothers. And he will. He was like very happy with it.

Cool. So eventually he moved his motor home to where the demolition Dave was doing, like on the job site because he was starting to work for Dave, like helping with the demolition. And dumps him in the demolition. This was in North Vancouver. So he was like, why not just like sleep on the job site? And he just drove it out to the work site and parked it there. And then he would also, he was very close to downtown area.

So that was the reason he did it. Yeah. Because then he would just drive into the area, pick up sex workers. It became kind of routine for him. Now this is also when he started hanging out in motel bars in like really CD places to pick up vulnerable people. He liked the Astoria hotel in Hastings which was apparently a very regular hangout for very interesting characters. And he would just kind of hang out. He would buy everyone drinks because he had tons of money. Wow. And he would bring girls home.

Oh, that was just like his thing. He had tons of cash because they were genuinely making shit tons of money. And he was kind of like using it to like make people want to hang out with him. Why wouldn't you just like use it to like get yourself a house and a shower? Because I don't.

I think they liked as much as like obviously, like, you know, his brother was a dick. I think like people were genuinely fine to him. Like nobody was like really mean to him except for Dave. And I think everybody just kind of thought he was weird, but they just kind of put up with him. I think he liked who he was. Like he liked being disgusting.

He liked being filthy. He liked being a fucking dick. And I just can't wrap my head around it. Yeah, I can't wrap my head around not wanting to feel clean. Yeah. No. I just can't either. I can not.

I really can't either. Now, around this time is when a record number of mostly indigenous sex workers were going missing. And nothing was being done about it. Nothing was really being looked into. It was kind of like their less dead because of their lifestyle. Of course. And it was, but it was becoming a point where people were like, there's like a serial killer out here. Right. We're not even seeing bodies most of the time. Sometimes they would be bodies, but a lot of times they just disappeared.

Right. Because they were in Dave's demolition sites. It's well, this woman named Kim Penderton was a police reporter for the Vancouver Sun and She with another reporter Neil Hall were like adamant to get the police to take indigenous women Especially those working as sex workers disappearances and you're seriously. Yeah, so they hounded police about it They kept writing about the cases And they were like trust trying to bring attention to it. They interviewed the family members, really got to know each of these women, who they were, wrote pieces about them to humanize them

because they again had been seen as less dead and less human because of their jobs and their circumstances and sometimes of who they were, like just native. So it's like, in 1987, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Force, they did make a task force that they were going to investigate at least 17 disappearances and murders in the area. Finally. And by 1989 they had pretty much given up on

this task force. I believe the task force was called like Project Amelia. Oh. Was the first one? Later, it becomes Project Evenhanded. And that's like the one that actually like did something. So that's going on. This is in the background. In the background of this story is all of these missing women happening.

But realistically, that's the forefront of this. Well Willie is doing his thing. Yeah, and eventually, it all just gets brought to the forefront. Now, let's talk about a woman named Lisa Yelts. She was 38 years old when she met Willie. And her son was friends with Willie's nephew. And the way that they met was that on one evening, I think it was New Year's Eve actually, she called the picked-in-home looking for her son and wanting him to come home because he hadn't called.

It was New Year's Eve. She was worried about him. And instead her son was friends with the nephew. Exactly. Day of son DJ. Okay. So Willie did her solid. He was like, I'll find him and I'll bring him home for you.

Like, I'm going to help you out. So because I think the picked-in-f farm was only like a few houses down from hers. Okay. They became fast friends. Like she appreciated it. They just got to talking. They formed a real bond. Like they were not in a relationship,

like a sexual relationship. They were just very bonded. She would go to the farm from there and out. She would help them out. She would try to clean up his motorhome form. She became kind of the voice of reason, like talking him down when he needed to talking down, telling him that he was disgusting and stinky when he was disgusting and stinky,

and like she was the only one he would listen to. So almost like a mother figure. Yeah, like there was times when like, like he respected her at sea. Yeah, so like a sister. Yeah, so she would like randomly just be like, dude, you're fucking gross. You gotta do your shower.

You can smell you. Like, please, just go do something. And he would be like, ooh, ooh. What's weird is people said that he took care of his teeth really well. That's just like an interesting. Maybe he like didn't like the taste of bad breath. But it's like, you are a foul.

Like, like just basement goblin who like rolls around in your own shit and pegs shit and like other things. Well, ten years, like gotta brush your teeth. Well, ten things hurt. They do, that's true. So maybe he didn't wanna get shit. Like maybe he had a bad experience

and was like, I'm not doing that again. Cause I'm just shocked by it. It's just like, it doesn't seem like something that would be high on the priority list. No, it definitely doesn't. Just very weird. But also, I feel like he didn't wanna spend his money like fixing his teeth. No, he definitely didn't. So he weird. But also, I feel like he didn't want to spend his money like fixing his teeth. No, he definitely didn't.

I'll just do that myself. Good point. So he said they became so close they were like siblings, but she said it always but it's just funny now. She said it always bothered her. How much he reminded her of Edgain. What the fuck? Which like you never, yeah. Your brother friend shouldn't remind you of that. You never want someone who's very close to you like to have an Edgene vibe. No, let's never keep the Edgene kind of company. Yeah, remove the people from your life that remind you of Edgene. That's just my personal advice.

Yeah, I think it works. I think it's a nice blanket statement. I don't know. I agree. She said that both Dave and Willie were super paranoid around about cops whenever they were driving or doing anything. And she assumed it was just all the shady dealings at the farm and she was like, they're probably just always worried about them showing up.

Yeah. But now she knows it was definitely a lot more than that, especially when he was driving. Like Willie was very concerned about a cop pulling him over. Oh, yeah. Same. In the same book, like at the farm, Lisa said, I always had this thought in the back of my mind that Willie could be a serial killer. Why?

And then she said, but I was never afraid of him myself. I knew he would never hurt me. That is a lot of faith in somebody to be sure is. That is keeping a lot of faith in somebody to share this. That is keeping a lot of faith in your friend. Like, there's never been a point where I've been like, I always wondered if my friend was a serial killer, but like, I didn't do anything about it. I can't even think of one friend adjacent. Nope. That would be like that was like serial killer ask.

Like, if you think your friend might be a serial killer, like evaluate, even if you think your friend's friend is a serial killer, also evaluate. Evaluate, don't. If anyone you are in contact with seems to be serial killer ask, do something. Well, and apparently Dave was a big dick to Lisa. Like he did not like Lisa.

And I think he didn't like her because like she was nice to Willie. Yeah, I think it was something weird with, he hated, he was such a dick to his brother. He probably had a complex where he needed to be the better brother. Yeah, I think it was weird. Like a little man's complex because he's the younger one. Or Willie's not allowed to have female attention or something like that,

even if it's just a friend. Yeah, because it seems like he liked to collect women. Yeah. And she ended up working in the slaughterhouse with with Willie. Like she was really just like working on the farm now. Okay. And when Dave apparently she said that Dave would greet her as quote, how you fucking loser? How are you? What the fuck? I feel like great loser. How the fuck are you? What the fuck? Well, by now Willie was buying selling slaughtering animals and was also doing the demolition business fixing cars, auctioning cars, doing the chop shop, and then started a cockfighting ring

on the farm as well. That's not okay. They would have huge parties and cockfights. People would bet on them and the pickedins would get admission money. They would sell beer and food and also portions, they would get portions of the profits from the betting. What the fuck? Like, this is fucked. And the way they describe it, it's like this horrific, I mean cock fighting is not something I even want to go into. No, I don't even want to talk about it. No, I don't even want to talk about it.

When they describe it in the book, it's just this horrific, horrific event that everyone, it just was, and it attracts like the worst of the worst. How do you stand there and watch something like that and go put your head on a pillow at night? I don't know. I really don't know. If I walk by Franklin without petting him, I think to myself, I'm like, I'm your fucking asshole. You better backwards step and pet this shit out of that cat. Pet that shit out of that cat.

Literally, I walked by him the other day and I was like, oh, you're so cute. And then I like didn't pet him. And I was like, oh, I gotta go pet him. I got, I got love you. Like, yeah, I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand. Well, they were hiring tons of people for the farm.

And also, they're various businesses that they were running. But they're not paying a lot of these people. They're just like, fucking with them. Yeah. So all the workers were either, they were like, drunk 24-7 or on drugs while working. And they're working with like heavy, dangerous equipment driving vehicles. And soon these workers are getting pissed because they're not getting paid.

So now they're having all these enemies forming. These workers are stealing some of the equipment to sell to get their money. So now the victims are losing more money than they're making sometimes because people are stealing all the shit. It's just, may. It's a dumpster fire, on a dumpster fire, on a dumpster fire. And they're constantly having vehicles wrecked

by these people, so they're having to do with insurance and shit. Like everyone was dirty, terrible, and no one trusted anyone on this farm. It was just fucking like, you know what it is. What? It's worse than a dumpster fire. It's a sewer fire. It is. It's like, yeah. It's an L. Well, I just can't.

This is like, like, there should be a TLC show about this. Well, and while this is all happening, and again, remember, in Vancouver at this time, all these women are going missing. So the sex workers took shit into their own hands because no one's helping. Yeah, you gotta protect yourself. So they knew there was at least one serial killer at large, praying on sex workers. Imagine knowing that as a sex worker. Yeah.

And so what they did was they started forming buddy systems. They were in teams. They were writing down license plates. They were taking note of everybody that everyone went to. Hell yeah. And they decided to help each other out and do like a bad date list where they would add the list like the name of a man That was like a bad John. Like you know like just if they were aggressive. It's a five. Yeah, anything that was bad they would add them to the list so everyone would know.

They were really trying to do their own thing. I feel like they're just trying to like work. Willie picked in must have been somewhere on those lists. He ended up on them. Yes. so everyone would know. They were really trying to do their own things. They were just trying to work. Willie picked in must have been somewhere on those lists. He ended up on them. Yes. Now, in 1991, this is just like something that I was like, oh, families of the missing women and advocates for them organized a Valentine's Day walk

to remember the missing and murdered women and they would do it like every year. Yeah. And I don't know if it still goes on now. I'll have to check that. But in 1996, Dave was doing demolition at a country bar in nightclub that needed to be torn down. He decided he was like, hmm, why don't I make my own bar?

Because I don't have anything else going on. And why not? Like I have 87 other hats all at the moment. Like a clock fighting ring at my house. But so he's demolishing this country bar and thinking about his own. And he starts removing material from the, yes. He starts removing stuff from it.

Like he was like, I'm gonna remove parts of the bar and parts of the dance floor and I'll make my own on my property. So he makes a janky used bar. Yeah. So he figured it would be a huge draw because the cock fights and shit drew so many people to the farm. And people are already raging at this farm and he's already got the hells angels and their associates

are always on the farm. It's wild that he didn't already have a bar. Yeah, so he's like, I'm on as well. Just have one and make money off of it. So he had a piece of land that they had bought around the corner from the farm on Burns Road. And they got this guy named Scott Chubb and Marty DeWinter.

Obviously. To help. To help. Obviously Scott Chubb was running the show. Scott Chubb. Talbie's least Scott shop was running the show Scott shop This is literally like pond stars like chumley I just Chumley is running around all over the place

I literally can't this shit is is so fuck. It's so weird. Well, you know, Scott Chubb and Marty to Winter, they helped him build this place and they named it after what everyone called their father and them. Piggy. So they decided it would be called Piggy's Palace. I'm vomiting because they're gross. I'm I am vomiting because they're funny. How gross find yourself at Piggy's Palace. I need to know. So many people did. I need to know how they found themselves there. Piggy's Palace was fucking hopping.

Okay, wait, so. Musical groups came and performed there. That's heinous. Not like fancy ones, but like obviously not. Like off duty police officers would go there sometimes. Isn't it? It's just saying. You know what I would love to know what was Dave paying taxes? Oh I guarantee you. Every time you were like a new business, a new business, a new

business, I was like this motherfucker is not like taxes. Does he have an account? How do you keep track of all that business people work? You just don't pay it. Like, you think fucking shove is gonna get together your W2s? No, I don't think Scott Chubb was gonna do it. No. Well, what they did was they used an old dilapidated barn and they redid it all.

So they used material from the demolition of the other club in restaurant and built a bar, a dance floor, a kitchen. There was actually seating for up to 150 people in there. Wow. A disco ball was hung, of course. And they like decked it out, they decorated it, they made it like a real bar.

And they did full food, lots of barbecue, of course. Never in my life would I eat at Chun Li. Lots of barbecue. Piggy's Palace. Piggy's Palace. No, no. Piggy's Palace. So Lisa Yelds actually worked as a waitress there for a bit.

She said Dave was an absolute dickwad to her. Awesome. They had one of the most known criminals in the area working the door and he was a known crack cocaine dealer. Okay. Cops frequented the place in their off time, even though it was a known haunt for drugs, illegal shit, and like criminals. Maybe they were like crooked cops. Yeah, of course they were. There was a lot back then. Oh yeah, I think I'm sure it has changed right now quite a bit from what it was. There was a lot back then just period. Literally, literally, across the board. A lot of everything back then.

Well, David and Willie, this is where it's hilarious. David and Willie registered the new business under the name. No, no. Piggies Palace, good time secede. Yeah. I just really can't anymore. Good time society. What the fuck? Get your fucking loser.

Just imagine getting your face down. You fucking loser. You've got this good time society. Like loser. It's just unbelievable. Piggy's Palace, good time society, man. Like, wow. I have to pee really bad and not just settle.

Well, they registered it as a charity. Yeah. They said it would be used to raise money for service organizations by having huge ragers and shit. That's what they were going to do. Oh, so I wonder if that's how they got away with it. I think that's how they got away with it. Also, I don't really know how taxes work in Canada. I think they were able to like use this,

like charitable thing. But the hell's angels took it over a lot and nothing was being sent to durable organizations. Oh, literally. They would have parties of like 1700 people there. Jesus. And they would just rage. And there's only seating for 150 people.

Yeah. And the neighbors around here, like all the surrounding areas, would complain because it was madness. In 2000, like just jumping ahead, they did and the city of Port Coquitlam actually shut it down. So that's good. Wow. So no more Piggy's Palace.

It's a fun society. I was like, oh, not that long ago. And then I was like, oh, 21 years ago. No, definitely. I know. It doesn't feel like it was. No. Now, this is around the time that Willie ended up getting a new bigger mobile home.

So that's good for him. Upgrade. It had more room. Had an office in there for him. Let me open it. Any part in the back of the picked in farm again. So now he's on the property again. I don't know why.

I don't know. I just don't know. What you do know. Now, he also became more and more known to the neighbors and people around town as a weird scary guy. Because now he's not becoming like, he's not just the quiet guy anymore. Now he's getting a little weird and scary.

What's he doing? That's weird. He could be super nice, but also he would use his farm equipment loudly into the night and never care to families complain to the noise. He was like, fuck off. Okay. There were several complaints from the new houses built on the property, like around

the property, that the stench from the Picton's farm was literally permeating their home. And they were like, we like something needs to be done at this point. It was definitely bought. But the Picton brothers just didn't give shit. Wow. Now Lisa moved, moved away with her kids at this point. And it was like, I have to head out. Cause she said this whole like Piggy's Palace

good time society situation was like getting a little too much. She just didn't want to be like totally involved in it anymore. And she didn't end up coming to the farm a lot after this. She kind of like pulled back a little cause she could see that like weird shit was happening. Cause she thought her friend had serial killer vibes. Well, and what will learn is that she saw some shit. And so she was not, she wanted to get away from there and we'll learn that don't worry. And she said, so Willie, you know, lost his good friend. Basically she was living

there. Like that was like his like sister. Yeah, so he basically was like, I need to replace her with someone else. So he replaced her with another girl. He knew named Gina Houston. Gina Houston was basically trying. She was, I think she worked as a sex worker at one point, but she kind of just started using Willie as like a sugar daddy, which a lot of these women were doing. They kind of see that he had a lot of money.

Can you imagine that? And they just kind of use him for it. If Willie picked in, was her father daddy? Like Willie picked in spying your Louis bags. No. Unreal. No.

No, don't want that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want anything to do with that. The more my brain thought about that, the more I asked I got. I don't want it. Oh, man.

No, thank you. Oh, man. Well, thank you. Oh, man. Well, she was basically, her job was kind of to try to get women to come back to the farm for Willie at this point. That became like one of her jobs. So she's a pimp. Kind of. Yeah.

And at one point, she claimed, so Gina Houston is a real piece of work, clearly. And she, like she had kids, she was just like, she was a lot. She was a lot. Yeah. At one point, she claimed that they were engaged, even though they did not, like, they were never engaged. Weird.

She was using the name Gina Picton at one point. Yeah. She just wanted his money. That's all this was. She saw him as like, oh, he's an easy target. She wanted to attach herself to that. Now, apparently some of the women were looking out for each other, especially in downtown

Eastside, and they were making sure that Gina stayed away from places where these girls were hanging out. Also, like Gina, like some of the older sex workers were kind of like, no, like stay away from them, like because they were kind of like, I know what you're doing, you're trying to lure them back to the farm and weird shit. We don't want them. Yeah, they were like weird shits happening there. I don't want them. Yeah, they were like, weird shits happening there. I don't want them there. Now, soon, he added another girl onto his list of girls that would like lure other girls in.

Her name was Dina Taylor. And she had once tried to lure this girl named Lynn out to where Willie and her were. This girl Lynn, who had kind of come to the farm a lot. And she had once tried to lure her. She told this story later out with them. And to this day, this girl Lynn swears it was to kill her. Like, she was like, I know.

And we'll see why Lynn is like a fixture on the farm for a little while. And then kind of leaves. But she said when Dina called, she was like, I knew. Like, when Dina called, I was like, oh, something's fucked up. Like, so this is who Dina was. Oh my god, Dina was another piece of work. Left town.

Yeah, she was a scary, scary lady. And just like Gina, Dina was using Willie for money. And she knew his pin number. His girls are Gina and Dina. Gina and Dina. That just hit me. Gina and Dina. And she knew his pin number and she could get cash

and clothing and drugs from him whenever she wanted. Okay. And she started getting the same treatment. Gina did, everyone knew that she was trying to lure these girls out to the farm. So they made her leave places. Like they were trying to protect girls. I love that there's like an army of sex

where girls are just like protecting each other. I think that's bad. They really did. They were really trying to protect each other. That's like my favorite part of the story. Yeah, it really was. And one of Willie's things was like, he didn't do drugs and neither did Dave, I guess.

And neither of them really drank that much. Okay. But they wanted to be surrounded by it all the time. Okay. And also, Willie had a thing where he liked to buy like these sex workers and especially drug addicted ones, more drugs because he wanted to be like, yeah, and he also wanted to be seen as like this like,

hero figure. Yeah. He was very, he had such a weird complex of like, his personality is just very strange. It would be interesting to like psychologically evaluate him because he had such weird like delusions of who he was as a person. He really thought he was like this great person that everybody should just want to be around.

Now Gina did say later that one time she went on to the farm to get a pig that she had helped butcher and there was a large freezer in the barn, the butchering barn that was covered in a blanket. There was a bunch of tools laying on, the butchering barn that was covered in a blanket. And there was a bunch of tools laying on top, and she started kind of like walking towards it because she was like, what the fuck is this? And she said, Willie didn't say a word,

but just looked at her and shook her head. She shook his head. And she just backed off and never asked. But she was like, I know some shit was in there. Cause he just like, they're like, no, don't look in there. What the fuck? Yeah. I like, I don't know how to what. Yeah. I just want. Oh yeah. So then we come up to a woman named Tracy Bion. She was almost a victim of Willie's. Now she had seen Willie a ton at the

Astoria Motel. And she knew he was there and picking up girls all the time. So one night he picked her up for, he said he would pay her for a sex act. So she was like, sure. So she said, she went into the trailer. And her quote from the book that I mentioned earlier was, it smelled terrible. It smelled of animals, like barn animals. And then he took me out to his trailer, which was fucking disgusting. As soon as you got in the kitchen, you couldn't go any further. There was clothes everywhere. The kitchen had a big counter with a sink and a little propane heater. The parking lot was built at the side of the trailer. As you came in, the kitchen

was right there, and on the left was the rest of the building. What I could see was just the kitchen. I couldn't go any further. He said, let's go in there, but I couldn't get past all the mess. So they then did their thing. And then suddenly, Willie pulled out a knife and accused her of stealing his wallet.

What? And she was like, what? He then used the knife to cut two buttons off of her shirt. Oh! And she ended up getting the fuck out of there. And suddenly, he just suddenly turned it off after that. And he was like, I'll drive you back downtown. Oh my God, I'd be like, no.

[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ And on the way back downtown, because she was like, I have to get back downtown. What am I going to do? And they've probably been through this kind of shit before, like crazy man. Right. And on the way back downtown, he told her how he loved

to help working girls get off drugs. But he said if they slip up once, they don't deserve to live. Oh my gosh. So she was like, okay. She's like, I'm gonna go ahead and add that in to the list. And I'm gonna tell you two other stories

before we end for part two. I'm ready to end. So March 10th, 1997, 25-year-old Kara Ellis disappeared. Now, she had been working as a sex worker and also was deeply addicted to drugs at the time. This is relevant because her good friend Maggie Gile, who had gotten herself clean recently after 30 attempts at getting clean. All good for her. Was determined to get her friend Kara clean as well. gotten herself clean recently after 30 attempts, I get it clean. All good for her. Was determined to get her friend Cara clean as well.

And she wanted to get her out of her life downtown east side. She was like, I want none of this for you. They had been roommates in a previous rehab center, but Cara had relapsed hard, fallen right back into everything. And she was staying at a place called the Vernon Rooms in Vancouver, but what everybody there knew and what the girls called the Vernon Rooms in Vancouver, but what everybody there knew and what the girls called the Hoden.

Where management ran the place super cruelly. Horrible. They would charge these women money to two basically like work in these rooms. So essentially they were pimps and then they started working in drugs. So they demanded the girls living in this place, bought drugs exclusively from them, and if they got drugs outside of the home, they would be severely beaten for it. Oh my God, what the fuck in a place is this? It sounds horrible.

I don't even know that exists. That's why I'm telling you, go read that book, because this book will go into so much more detail and tells you so many more different places in Vancouver, at this time, that were like underground places. You know that you would never know about if you didn't read and right yeah I'm telling you it's amazing. Now she care had been through this

several times and on the last time that she was caught with drugs that were not bought in the home she ended up in the hospital. They beat her so bad she ended up in the hospital. Now she saw her friend Maggie in March, and she tried to get her to enter recovery with her but care refused. She said that this was the last time anyone saw her alive. She had family, though, and she was still in touch with her siblings

and their kids and her parents. They all lived in Calgary. And when she went missing, they didn't notice right away because they said, you know, she kept in touch, but she would go like a long period of time without talking. When her sister-in-law went to file a missing persons report in August 1997, they basically told her, sure, we'll file it, but like, they never did.

She's a sex worker. I don't know what she wanted to do. She's also a drug addict. So they just didn't give a fuck. And that was it. She was later tied into the victims of Willie Picton. Wow. Now, this last story I will tell you

before we end for part two is the one that I was like, what, what, what, what? So March 22nd, 1997, a 31 year old sex worker whose name is under a publication ban. So we don't know her name because you cannot publish it. She was working in Vancouver's downtown east side. We'll call her Emily. I'm just gonna call her Emily.

Yeah. She was a mother of two and ran into Willie picked in while down on her luck. She had a boyfriend who was really cruel and demanded money from her often. She had a very intense drug addiction. It required her to inject speed balls up to five times a day. And she had gambled her last 60 bucks away before she ran into Willie. It required her to inject speed balls up to five times a day.

And she had gambled her last 60 bucks away before she ran into Willie. He saw her on the street in the downtown east side and offered her 100 bucks to come back to the farm for a sex act. He promised to bring her back in an hour and she was psyched because she was going to be getting more money than what she lost. Right. So she could bring that back to her boyfriend. It's just like really sad. That is very sad. So she got in his red pickup truck, and on the way to the farm, she noticed a bra on the seat. And when she asked what that was all about, he said another working girl had left it.

OK. Like cool. She already had a bad feeling. And when she went into his trailer, she noticed like everyone else, it was disgusting and filthy. And then she saw a huge butcher knife just like laying on the counter Oh god, she was like of course everybody like uses knives for like cooking and shit But everybody leaves them out when she was like it gave me a weird vibe

But he let her do his bedroom the bedroom had only a sleeping bag on the floor and a roll of plastic sheeting Next to the sleeping bag what the the actual fuck? And she was like, oh, and she panicked and asked if she could use the phone to call her boyfriend and just let him know that she would be late. And he refused to let her use the phone. He did allow her to use the phone book to look up the number because she was like, I just need to write it down so I can call him at the pay phone because he had told her like, I'll drop you off at this gas station and you can use the phone. Right.

So he grabbed her from behind while she was looking at this phone book and forced her one of her hands into handcuffs. Oh. Like straight up Ted Bundy's style, like one hand in cups and she was able to get the other one. So it was hanging like the cups were on her wrist. Oh my God.

She fought and he began like beating her. Like she had, she was literally punching her in the face. Oh my God. She fought and he began like beating her. Like she had, she was, he was literally punching her in the face. Oh my God. And she had him back her, she basically was like, all right, I gotta get to that butcher knife. So she basically had him back her up towards where she remembered the knife was. What a smart woman. And then she reached behind her, grabbed it and sliced him in the cheek and neck with it. Good. Like, ended up really doing a shit ton of damage. Too bad she literally didn't murder him. Well, and she ended up blacking out.

And she obviously didn't know why at the time, but at one point, she woke up outside still fighting him. What? Yeah. And he was blacking out from blood loss. And what happened was he had stabbed her in the like abdomen, the hand, like several times she had been stabbed and she had blacked out from blood loss. So she didn't even, she probably had so much adrenaline running through her legs.

She was just kept kept going. She didn't know that she had even been stabbed. Exactly. And now he's losing blood. So he's blacking out while this little thing is happening. And eventually she was able to wrestle the knife from him again and run towards the street and she said she ended up running to a Home across the street, but an elder no one answered the door So she's just like banging on the door trying to like break a window basically like just let me in literally

Well an elderly couple was driving by and saw her and the the man, this elderly man jumped out of the car to help her. And he, she, he like basically was like getting the back seat, like got her in the back seat. And she told him, see that farm right there? And he was like, yep. And she said, she said, if she, she said, if I die, the person who lives in a trailer on that farm did it.

What? Like told her and then this guy later said that when she was running, he could see her intestines coming out of her. That's how badly she was like in. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that makes my stomach hurt.

Yeah. Exactly. The elderly woman called 911 and they met them like, like, yeah, so they could just like start going to the hospital. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah, it's crazy. And the couple told the police that she had told them that the man who did this had also been stabbed. So they were like, just say no. So she went into emergency surgery at Royal Columbian Hospital in Westminster. She was stabbed four times, two in the abdomen, one in the arm, and one in her rib, which punctured her lung. Ah! While they're working

on Emily, they tell the doctors that another stabbing patient is coming in and look at that. It's really picked in. It's really picked in. Who was sent there from a smaller hospital that he had gone to because they didn't have the resources to treat him because she had fucked him up. Hell yeah. Now they found the key, she still had the handcuff attached to her. This is like the Cindy Hindi ship. Yes. They found the key to the handcuffs in his pocket when they were like getting his clothes.

What? They immediately the police go over to her while she's like in surgery or like going into surgery, they go up and they use the key on the handcuff and it opens. Like that's how they realized it was the same. So they immediately get a search warrant for the property. He said some bitch had stabbed him and that's the story. That's what his story was. Some bitch stabbed me and he basically said like some drugie, like sex worker. He probably said like something terrible about it.

Of course. He was taken home Willie. He was treated for like three days. And he was taken home after they realized the fucking key in his pocket opened those handcuffs. Oh yeah. Because he's claiming,

well she's a drugie like sex worker. And he's basically saying like she attacked me. Oh yeah. Because he's claiming, well she's a druggy like sex worker and he's basically saying like she attacked me. Oh, it's trying to, and he's saying she tried to rob me. So they're not going to believe her. And he has injuries. Right. So now he's saying like I was just defending myself. Wow. Yeah. So Dave actually took him home a few days later and they called in Lisa Yelts again to clean up the bloody trailer and take care of him. So she came back. Yes.

So she came back. Meanwhile, Willie's version of the events was again that Emily had approached him, not that he had approached her, in that he, that she had demanded $200 up front, then saw money in his trailer and threatened him with a knife to give her the cash. So he defended himself and she ran. That was his story. The handcuffs come into play, everybody. The entire time Lisa was taking care of them, he was telling her to find out where Emily lived, so he could take care of her.

Why was Lisa still in the police to come back and clean? I'm not going to do that. And she was basically like, I thought he was just mad because she had stabbed him in the face and like the neck. And like he had like 150 stitches. And like I guess it had broken some of his teeth. Oh, it was like his heart. He loved his teeth.

He loved his teeth. So he was like, she was like, I assumed he was just mad and was like just saying things. Yeah. But April 8th, 1997, he was charged with attempted murder. Good. Unlawful confinement and aggravated assault. The charges were dropped for why? Because she's a sex worker and a drug addict. The fact that that shit happened, like,

probably still happens, is so fucked up to me. Yep. Like, I guess that was basically like what it was, and she felt like it wasn't gonna matter So I think she also just didn't show up to court. So they were like well she was probably too scared to well That's the other thing she was being Just like ran away So I don't blame her that's the beginning of Willie picked in this reign of terror the fact that that is the beginning Yeah, how many how many victims are there? That 49 are killed 49 women are killed and let me tell you he he was sad. He didn't get that even 50

So who was 50 supposed to be did he have somebody that was supposed to know he just wanted the number? He didn't like the not he didn't like that it was 49. Are you kidding me? Yeah, and don't worry, we'll find out how we know that in part two. I'm so stressed out. All right, so we have an Instagram, I think. Is that how we have an Instagram? We do that. That's how that works. And also, you know what, if I can squeeze just to like put this out there,

if I can squeeze it into two parts, I will, but I really think this will be three. Yeah. But our Instagram is at morbid podcast. And I said it on Twitter. At A morbid podcast. Send us a G mail. morbidpodcast.gmail.com. And we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it weird. But never as weird as they kept it out of the farm because you will get arrested and you will be in trouble. Goodbye. Do not be a victim. Don't even be a victim, adjacent. You soap and water.

Chh. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.