Morbid - Episode 211: Willie "Piggy" Pickton Part 2

Episode Date: February 22, 2021

Part two of Willie is somehow more bonkers than part one. More and more people are coming forward with their experiences at ~the farm~ but no one is taking this case as seriously as they should. Huge numbers of women are going missing, but are seen as less dead or are put to the bottom of the list because of their “high risk lifestyles.” But somewhere in the middle of our story the investigation gets revamped and Scott Chubb really does his best to save the day, are you ready for the end of this?! On The Farm by Stevie Cameron As always, thank you to our sponsors!! HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/10morbid and use code 10morbid for 10 free meals, including free Shipping! Simplisafe: Visit SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid for your free security camera today Betterhelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Morbid listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/Morbid Careof: For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com/morbid50 and enter code morbid50 Curology: For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com/morbid50 and enter code morbid50 See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Whether you're running errands on your daily commute, or even at home, you can enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, the Audible app. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog. This includes the latest bestsellers and new releases. Plus get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, audible originals,

and more. If you've been wanting to form good habits, break bad ones, and improve motivation, atomic habits written and narrated by James Clear is a great lesson. It'll reshape your mindset on progress and success by helping you develop strategies to transform your habits. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days.

That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. This is gonna be very more business. Okay, I'm like excited for part two because I took a shower this morning and I scrubbed because I took a shower. I scrubbed all of part one off of me and And I'm ready to go back in this today. I'm tapping back in. Well, I think part two is good to make you need another shower.

Perhaps a bath even. And maybe not want to eat for a little while. Oh, goodie. I could be part of it. I'm not really sure. Well, I had steak already this week, so. Oh, good. So you can become vegetarian for the rest of the week.

That's fine. That's totally fine. And speaking of that, I just wanted to thank everybody for sending emails and messages. Because we had a few questions and a few things that we were a little confused about with farm life. Yeah, farm life and the meat,

like preparing process. So we were very confused about him shooting pigs with a nail gun and we were like, what is happening? It's not that meat. Well, the thing is it's with a nail gun. And we were like, what is happening? What is happening? It's not that mean. Well, the thing is, it's not a nail gun. So he would use like a legit nail gun, which is not what you're supposed to do.

Which is not what you're supposed to do. What it's called is, and I want to thank the people who sent this in. I'm not going to mention everyone's name, because I don't, not everybody like, because you know, clarified that we could, so I don't want to, I don't know what, what would happen if I said it, but whatever. Their pigs would replace. everybody like, you know, clarified that we could, so I don't want to. I don't know what

what would happen if I said it, but whatever. Their pigs would be. Yeah, I don't want your pigs being like, why'd you talk about me? But somebody told me that it's called a pneumatic bolt bolt gun. Oh, is what they use. That sounds like what my like Botox lady would use on me to like help my forehead out. Well, they said it does look in operate like a nail gun, but the bolt is huge so that and this is trigger warning. We're obvious. I mean, if you're here, yeah, come on. So if you're here, you know what's happening.

Okay, it's Willie picked it and you heard number one. So it's a huge bolt gun and it's so big so that it can penetrate the skull into the brain. And that is to basically make the pig brain dead. Almost like sedating the pig. Not sedating. No. Literally causing brain damage. Okay.

So that it just completely removes the ability to feel pain. Okay. A sedation would be a very nice way of putting that. I think everybody should just sedate their pigs instead. I was gonna say, I've never been sedated with a bolt gun to my head, but. No?

No, I have not. And then the other thing that we were like, because remember, we were like, what is swapping a pig? Okay, so from what I saw people were saying, is it just feeding them? It is just feeding the pigs, so we were right. Why don't they just say that though?

I don't know, slopping the pigs feels better. No, it doesn't at all. It works. You would rather go say, I'ma go slop the pigs. Yeah. And I'ma go feed the pigs. Yes. If I'm going to do something on the farm with pigs,

I'ma go slop them. Okay. I'm not gonna feed them. I'll wash your a while. I'll stay. I'll stay on the farm. If I'm just gonna feed something. I'm gonna swap it. Okay. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm literally like full simple life version right now. I'm like what? I definitely I have never swapped a pig but I

mean it makes sense. So I really appreciate that that everybody was telling us that. We also had a very interesting, like, kind of listener tale that went along with this. And she did say at the end, Hannah, thank you so much. She said you can use my name. Oh, shit. I did not see this. I just wanted to read it real quick, because it's very interesting. So Hannah said, hello, I've been so excited to hear the picked-in case. Obviously not happy about it, but I grew up with it, so wanted to hear it covered, we get you. Yeah, of course.

It's super close to home. I'm from Pit Meadows, which is one town over from Port Coquitlam, which by the way, thank you so much, everybody telling me I said it right. That's like an ego booth. That's also fun to say, Coquitlam. And then she said, you pronounced it correctly, and that gives me so much joy.

I just felt the need to email because I used to work at a Starbucks a few minutes away from the farm. And stinky Dave came into my cafe all the time. See, that's interesting. I do not picture stinky Dave as a Starbucks guy. I don't either. I picture him as more of a honeydew fella. But look at him.

Not that there's anything different about it. You know what I was gonna say? What are you saying about honeydew fellas? Yes. I don't, I picture him just like scooping a mug of like mud out of the earth and just drinking it. That's what I, I sure am just like grinding up the coffee grinds and like thinking that you just like pour that into water throughout the day and just stir it up.

I feel like if anyone's seen returned to Oz, what like the gnome king drank out of a mug? I feel like that's what he drinks. It's just me there. It's basically just like Earth. And no, I'm also very surprised he's not an instant coffee kind of guy. Yeah, I guess. Anyways.

So stinky Dave came into my coffee all the time. He's just as smelly as you think and it reminds me of a pig pen because he literally showered dirt on the floor every time he came in, wherever he walked. So goddamn rude and also horrible, disgusting shitty person regardless, as you've mentioned. He would always walk up to the counter and said, hey woman, give me a coffee. Every single time.

I'd be like, what kind? He made gross comments about me and my lady co-workers all the time and was always with a woman. She was sweet as pie and I questioned her as a human on every level. Um, hold on, I eventually refused to serve him and made my co-workers do it. Sorry y'all. She says- Here's the thing, I remember like waitressing when people like that would come in. Why don't people like that get banned from establishments? Well, because you, that's just my personal experience and wanted to share.

Oh, I thought she did say that she didn't, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, you can't really ban someone for being a dick, I guess. Like, I know. I wish you could. That's all I can. Well, at least she was able to be like, I'm not certain. Because that is true. You can say I'm not serving this person. Absolutely. But yeah, so Hannah said, looking forward

for the rest of the parts, and I just had to write it now, love the show and have listened every episode. Thank you so much, Hannah. Hannah, if you all read my name, if you all read this and talk about it, you can use my name. I appreciate that.

Thanks, Hannah. But thank you so much, Hannah, for writing in. And thank you for everybody for writing this in. I immediately, I felt like this was one of those cases that I was like, I gotta jump in the email tonight. Oh yeah. So last night I jumped in there because I was like, I know check for any connections.

Where are my farmers at? Where are my pig people at? Where are my Canadians at? Like everyone, I just heard you say that in RuPaul's voice. When my grandma is at, so instead of like, bring back my farmers. Bring back my farmers. So instead of like, bring back my farmers. Bring back my farmers. That's what I felt.

Bring back my pain. And I was right. I went in there. And I was like, thank you so much to all the butchers and the farmers and the former farm kids and the Port Coquicklam people. Starbucks workers all of you. You were great. Thank you.

Thank you so much. But I just had to say thank you so much. So when we first when we left you last time We had just seen Quote unquote Emily who's Somebody else mentioned that this was the girl whose name is under a publication band. Yeah that band was lifted But I'm still not gonna say her name because there was a reason Yeah, she really still. I just want that.

Yeah, I know. We'll just, you know, whatever. Yeah, it does, doesn't. And I can see, I saw a lot of like news articles that still didn't mention her name. We're like, just mentioned that the publication band was lifted, but still didn't say her name. Yeah, just like a respect thing. Let's just keep going with it. So, when we left you, that whole thing with Emily happened where they literally fought each other like

Willie had attacked her almost killed her her like entrails were falling out and then he basically got nothing for it because they looked at her as not credible and he told the the yarn not credible and he told the yarn that she was just a prostitute in his words that robbed him. He was just some bitch. So that's what he said. So this was in 1997. So now we're in 1997 and like we said, there's tons of missing women in Vancouver right now. It's happening in mostly indigenous, mostly sex workers. And nothing is being done about it.

Now the next person to go missing here was a girl named Tanya Hulk. She was 23 years old. She was an indigenous woman. These are all women, by the way. These are not all the women that went missing at that time. These are the women that Willie was charged with. Right. So those are the ones I'm going to mention here.

Which by the way, just while I'm getting into this, I mentioned in the first part that they do like a Valentine's Day march every year. I saw they still do it. They still do it. And they hang red dresses from like poles and stuff. One of our listeners sent us a picture, I'm sorry, I don't remember who it was. It might be on Twitter, let me see if I can grab it. Yeah.

And they just told us that like, look, they also hang red dresses and remembrance. And I was like, that is so like awesome. I know I love that they do that. I love that they still do it. And the red dress idea is such a good idea. So I just wanted to update you guys on that because I was an other thing. I was questioning. You guys are awesome. But I thought you guys bring to that. Yeah. Like that was just stuff that like you, it's cool to hear from people who are in that place. Absolutely. First hand experience. Yeah.

So, Tanya was 23 years old. She was an indigenous woman. At the time of her disappearance, she was working as a sex worker. She had struggled for a long time with drugs and addiction, like most of these women, unfortunately. But she got pregnant at one point and decided she needed to get clean for the sake of her unborn child. Okay, great. Which good for her. And she did. Good. She did. So she was in recovery for a while. She was doing really well. She had joint custody with her, for her baby son, with the father of

the child. They weren't together anymore. And things were like looking up. Like she was on the right path. Things were looking up. On October 29th, she had asked her ex to keep their son for three days instead of two. Mm-hmm. Normally, he kept him for two. And she was like, can you just keep him one extra day? Because she said, I really want to go to this Halloween party. So he was like, sure. Now, what we need to remember is that the Picton Farm is a raging party spot. And they have Piggy's Palace Good Time Society happening. Stop. Where they have Halloween parties. They have parties for everything.

Yeah. They had a Halloween party that year. So this, okay, okay. This could have been the party that she was attending. Right. So she said, I wanna do this and he was like, no problem. So, you know, November 1st comes, she's supposed to come pick up her son and he doesn't

and she doesn't. So immediately they're like, this is not like her. Right. Like, no matter what was going on, she would never do that. She would never do that. And we see this as a pattern throughout here, is that the police at the time looked at

this as these are sex workers, their addicts, indigenous women, are another marginalized piece of society here. And they're looking at it as, well, their lifestyle, they're like drifting around. No one's really in touch with them. That's how they're looking at it. That's not the case. But the reality of the situation and what you will see in that book, which I'll link it in these, the show notes this time,

so you can go get it, because I'm telling you go get it on the farm. What was different about this is that these women, all of them, had families and friends who they were still very much in touch with. Right. I didn't find any of these women to be totally cut off from everybody, which that's why it's like such a bad,

just you're going in with the wrong idea right off the bat. It's an assumption. It's a really generalized assumption. So all these families are saying, no, no, we talk to her. Yeah, she's, you know, in a bad way right now. Yeah, she's doing a very dangerous job.

Yeah, she's struggling with addiction, but we bad way right now. Yeah, she's doing a very dangerous job. Yeah, she's struggling with addiction, but we're still here. We still know where she is. And she's still at the end of the day. She's human. She doesn't have family and she is out of touch with everybody. That's a human. Exactly.

Just like you, just like me, that's a human. But it's like, regardless, they were all connected. Right. And they were all checking in with people. They would go to birthdays for their nephews and nieces. A lot of them had kids that they would never just up in abandoned. Most of them were trying to get clean to get their kids back if they had lost them. Like a ton of them were on the way to trying to change things.

And this happened. And this happened. And this happened. And this happened. Which makes it so much worse. And it makes it worse that it was just assumed that they were, they drifted away, they don't want to be found. That's what, because it's not the case. A lot of these like investigators were like, and we'll hear about this soon, that like a

lot of them just fluffed it off for that. And then they learned too late that these families were coming forward and being like, no, that is not who, like you have the total wrong idea of these women. It's really sad. So again, go read on the farm by Stevie Cameron because I'm giving a very quick overview of a few of these victims, like as much as I can, but I don't want to put too much

because Stevie Cameron's a journalist and he did unbelievable research into their lives, talk to their families, and the amount of information about all these women in that book, you have to go read it. And I he did so much work that I think you need to like read it from his point of view. Absolutely. Yeah, I don't want to take all of his research, but yeah, go find that because it's really

good. So unfortunately, Tonya didn't show up on November 1st and her mother who she was very close to called the police and she said they responded, your daughter is just out having fun. Don't bother us, don't waste our time. Are you kidding me? Yeah. She had to hound them to finally file a,

don't waste my time. Don't waste my time. What? Yeah, like that's literally what your time is supposed to be spent doing. Cause she was like, oh, she went to a Halloween party and she was supposed to be back to pick up her son and they're like, oh, she's just out partying.

And they were like, no, like that. She had set something up like with the father of her child. It wasn't like she just like dropped her kid off with someone random and was out partying. Right. And like, it's the morning the party's over. Like, and they're like, she probably just like is continuing the party. Right. And give a shit about herself.

It's just bullshit. It's like, no. The next one that went missing in 1997 was Andrea Faye BorBorhaven. She was 25. No one could tell exactly when she went missing. Like, there's a couple of those that like, you know, you think it was in one month,

but like technically it could have been a little later just because they were a little hard to keep track of. She was also very, she was homeless completely at the time. Like, she wasn't even staying in like motels or anything, which most of these were more. She was in a really bad way. And like what people said, she was like really like manic at this time. And like just really worried about her. But they believe it was sometime in March of 1997 was the last time people saw her.

In August 1997, Helen Hallmark disappeared. She was 32 years old. She was working as a sex worker. She fell into a bad way, but was apparently a pretty great person who was just trying to make ends meet. She was just trying to, she was a popular cheerleader in high school, which people always look at it and be like, oh my god, what? But she just fell into a bad path.

That's really all it is. People loved her though. Like she, people like have nothing but good things to say about her. On a Missing Persons website, a friend wrote, and this was on like, uh, MissingPeople.net, where you can read a lot about these women too. A friend wrote, what I remember the most is Helen always made me laugh. Her eyes would sparkle and her smile was contagious. And Helen also made it a point in her mission to convince younger girls not to go down the similar path that she did. Like on the on the same website, one girl shares a and you got to read it like this long story about how Helen basically saved her life by being like, you don't wanna do this. And like, you're not getting into drugs.

I'm not gonna get you into this. Do not start, like, put her on a different path. Good for her. So it was basically like, yeah, I made mistakes, but like, don't you make sure other people don't? Which is, it's just like, it's so sad that she used her experience talking to people. Yeah.

The next one was Sherry Irving. She was 24 years old. She was living with a fellow sex worker friend at the time. This friend who, I believe her name was Renata, came to her one evening and told her that a guy named Dave had asked if she could find a girl to come to his farm and hang with his brother Willie. So Dave is getting girls for Willie? Well, this was when Willie was still recovering from his whole thing with Emily.

Quote and quote, Emily. So he wasn't really going out by himself at this point. He was sending other people to kind of bring them back to the front. His wild. Now she agreed to go with her friend. She was like sure, why not? And the two women drove out together with Dave. Willie pointed to Sherry, and that was who he wanted.

She went into his trailer with him, and that's the last time her friends saw her, and that's the last time anyone else saw her. Oh my gosh. 1997, the same year, Marney Frey, fell into a bad crowd in her 20s, I would say. The family, her family had tried helping her, but she just wasn't receptive to it. Like, if she was just in a river that time, she was always, but she always called on her birthday, which was August 30th. She always talked to her parents on her birthday.

She didn't this year, and they couldn't find her. And they were like, something's wrong. So they reported her missing, and the case went completely ignored. Officer Dave Dixon with the Vancouver police was one of the people who like tried to really get this heard. There's a couple of officers that I'll mention that like really tried to get somebody to listen to them and they just nobody would. Yeah. He was really interested in this case and he knew she was like she's murdered Like, we need to actually prioritize this. Right. But nothing happened.

The same year, Cynthia Cindy Felix went missing in December. I don't know a ton about her, but there's a couple of them that there's just not a lot of known information. She's one of them, but the next one was Diana Melnick, and she went missing on December 28th, 1997. On January 7th, 1998, Carrie Lynn Koski, a 38-year-old mother of three went missing. In February, Inga Moniqueau, a German-born mother, and she was also a grandmother. She was in her 40s, was seen for the last time.

Oh, my God. In April of the same year, a 28 year old woman named Sarah debrees, I believe it is. She went missing as well. She, it was her family and friends who were going after the police being like, I love that something bad happened. She had actually been adopted as like an infant

into a very loving family who cared about her like immensely. She also had, her best friend's name was Wayne Ling. an infant into a very loving family who cared about her immensely. She also had, her best friend's name was Wayne Ling. And when he disappeared, Wayne did everything he could to find her. Put out posters. He even set up a hotline for tips and everything. He really tried to find her.

They actually found a journal of hers that back in 1995, so a few years before she actually went missing, but very much in the midst of this whole missing woman thing. Right. Because they were all terrified. In this shows how much she wrote in her journal, am I next? Is he watching me now, stalking me like a predator in its prey, waiting, waiting for some perfect spot, time or my stupid mistake. How does one choose a victim?

Good question. If I knew that, I would never get snuffed. Oh, wow. And then she became one of the victims. That is so scary to me. Yeah. Talk about like foreshadowing. And she was like a beautiful writer.

She wrote like poems in her journal and stuff. She was like really talented. Oh, wow. And just by that one little snippet, you can see she just has a wave. A wave with words. A speaking, that's really well. So in 1998, the same year in July, one of the detectives, Laura Mersheneer, Sheneer, I think it is Sheneer, I'm sorry if I'm saying that wrong. He took over as head of the missing persons Persons Unit in the Vancouver Police Department. So he received an anonymous call while he was there

from someone saying that the person responsible for the Missing Women was Willie Picton. Oh shit. This guy calling said he and his friend had seen purses and bloody clothing, as well as IDs and Willie's trailer, and that Willie jokes all the time in really weird ways, talking about killing people,

mentioned he knew how to dispose of a body, how to insinuated that he had disposed of a body for someone. He also said that he had a giant industrial-sized meat grinder that everyone was really freaked out about, like, because just him around a meat grinderer is all scary. They'll scare you. Just meet grinders in general are pretty terrifying. Yeah, they really are. Uh, he looked into him, and he, so, like,

the detective looked into Willie, and was like, this dude seems like a good fit for this, actually, because he saw that whole thing that happened with the Emily. Right. And he's like, oh, wait a second. Yeah. I don't, he's like, why aren't we looking into this much? So he tried to convince police that the, like all the police officers,

that the Vancouver police and the Royal Canadian mounted police should team up on this. Because juror's jurisdiction stuff was making it hard and they were like, if you guys team up, we can get way more done. Like he's like, there is a serial killer out there. Yeah.

They were like, nope. They never want to work together. No. I don't understand it. Like police forces in general. It's illegal. It's nuts to me. It's full on illegal.

Absolutely. But it's like this. Can we like put our set our egos aside for the sake of saving more innocent people? No. Like your ego will go on. Yeah, it will go on. It will go on again tomorrow.

You can, but when you're done. Yeah, because this is very clear. But they just don't, the problem is, as we'll see, like these women just aren't important. They just don't matter to them. These aren't important victims to them. And he and another detective, Kim Rosmo, felt that this was definitely a serial killer.

It needed to be taken seriously. They started trying to go to the higher ups to try to get them to understand this. And they told them basically they were drug addicts and sex workers who just didn't want to be found. Right. And that's it. And the problem was, like I said, they all did have connections to the outside world. And they were trying to prove this to them being like, we have talked to their families. People know they're missing. People miss them. They've missed appointments. They've missed recovery meetings. They've missed children.

Custody things, they've missed court dates, they've missed all kinds of things that you just don't miss. Right, like there's a pattern here. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed. What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events,

told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer. You'll hear their first person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you, this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. And so the guy on the phone had also told him this, that had mentioned his friend was also the one that kind of told him most of this information.

And they said, you know, who is this friend? And he said, Lisa Yelts. Oh, shit. Yes. If you remember Lisa from the first episode, she was the one who basically became like best friends with Willie. And then eventually moved away, moved herself

and her kids away from that farm. And it was like kind of distancing herself. But she still had the ties right around when Lee and Emily. Exactly. When Willie got hurt during that whole struggle with Emily, she came to take care of him. So now he's saying, Lisa told him, there's a weird shit. I saw some weird shit and I don't know what to do. Now she refused to speak to the police though. That's why he was calling. So officer Shen, her proposed the idea of getting an undercover officer

to basically try to get her to tell him stuff. Yeah, the police rejected this idea, of course. They said no, like what? Why would you reject that idea? Why would you just want to know what she knows? That's like a really good idea. Why wouldn't you just try it? Instead, they were like, oh, we'll put surveillance on Willie.

So he was like, okay, they did it for three days. And then they were like, he didn't do anything in those three days. Wow, okay. He didn't do anything. He never heard of a cooling off period. And what this particular detective said, Officer Shen, he said, if these women were from any other walk

of life, there would be total outrage. Search parties, volunteers, roadblocks, on a very deep level, a large segment of society, and the policing community didn't feel these women were worth searching for. And many people questioned whether they even wanted to be found. That's so fucked up. And this guy, like to this day, I read like a whole article on, I think BBC about him, and he was saying that he lives with such guilt because he feels like he failed. Because he couldn't.

He didn't. And it's like, he feels that way because he couldn't convince them to take it seriously. And he was like, you. And he's like, I knew it was Willy Picked, and I knew he at least had to look into this. And so many people died because they wouldn't. They wouldn't listen. And it's like, I just wanna be like, it's not your fault.

Like you were trying so, you and a couple of the other ones, like Kim Rosmo and a couple of other ones tried so hard and it's those other fuckers that have the blood on their hands. Yeah, they exactly, they failed you. You didn't see them. Yeah, and you failed. Now Wayne Lang, the one that's the best friends with Sarah,

the girl, the poet who had gone missing. He, like I said, was like setting up hotlines and all that. Well, he got a call in his hotline from a guy named Bill Hiscocks. And he said they needed to look into Billy Picton. Billy Picton. Willie Picton. Willie Billy Bobby. So another person is now getting a call from some money saying, you should look into Willie Picton. Right. Maybe we should go ahead and do that for more than three days. And Bill said he had worked for Dave and had been on the farm like a little bit, but he

said he worked mostly on like the demolition, I think construction parts. So he's like, I've only been on the farm a couple times, but he had seen Willie and his nastiness, and apparently one of his friends, Lisa Yelts, who was the one who clearly called this other line, she said she would clean up and find tons of women's clothing that appeared to be stained with blood and had also found IDs and purses. Wow. So now the same exact thing is being said to this guy. Now she had brought them up to Willie.

This guy Bill said, and now Willie told her to get rid of them and don't ask him any more questions. Yikes. So Bill said, now I think obviously that other line was an anonymous person. I'm assuming that was also Bill because it's the exact same story. And also he said that he had tried to contact police

about this when he called Wayne, but he said no one's listening to me. So I think he called that other line, and they were like, we can't do anything. Right. So he was like, I'm just gonna try this. Maybe even try to get a PD on it. Yeah, like he's just trying something. Just anybody.

So he's like, just get the information out there. Like someone talked to him. Right. So what she had said I guess was Billy to Bill. She had said Billy you wouldn't believe the IDs and shit out in that trailer There's women's clothes out there. There's purses. You know what that guy's doing. It's like really weird and that was recorded He had recorded a conversation with her like I'm a little bit upset with Lisa though, because, oh, yeah. Oh, just, you're gonna, I was upset with her too.

You know what's going on. It's not weird. And again, she didn't want to talk to police, so Bill felt like he had to do it in her place, because he said, I have a conscience. I can't just sit on this. And here's the thing, like I understand, of course, she was probably terrified,

but like, well, then that's the thing. It seems to me, like her reason that she said was that she hates police. So she wasn't, but, but like, well then that's the thing. It seems to me, like her reason that she said was that she hates police. So she wasn't, but I was like, but like that's not really like acting on your hatred of police. That's acting on your hatred of your fellow human being because you're not helping police.

You're helping these women. Right. Like you have to think of it on a deeper level. You know, I know. I know surface-wise you think it seems like you're helping police, but like you're level. I know. I know, surface-wise, you think it seems like you're helping police, but like, you're not. Let's think about the victims here.

You just gotta, but, you know, a lot of these people didn't talk to police because when they were they're terrified of the victim brothers and all the criminals and like, how is angels and shit that they were all surrounded by? Right. Or they were trying to get money out of Willie. So they were holding shit back so they could use it on them.

Yeah, so it's like a whole mess. It's a convoluted mess. It's just so many shitty people to gather together on one farm. So what she, so she did get interviewed finally by police, they got her in to talk to them and she said, none of it's true. I didn't say any of that.

See, fuck, fuck that. And later they did ask like when all this shit went down, they later asked her like, why, what do you mean none of that happened? And she said, quote, the reason I didn't say much to the cops is for one, I hate cops. And two, I didn't see anything. You give a cop an inch and they take a mile.

They turn around, they take the story, twist it in 10 ways to Sunday and blow it up. So then you're sitting in a pile of shit, which you didn't even say in the first fucking place and they're twisting it in your face. Okay. Okay, honey. It sounds to me when you say that, like, you got shit to hide. That's what it makes.

It's sound like. It's exactly what it sounds like. You're not making yourself sound good here. You hate cops? Okay. That's like, okay. That's like, you could have just ended it there. I don't want to talk to cops.

People would just be like, all right, fine. Like, that doesn't help these victims, but like, whatever. Right. But when you're sitting there being like, they're just gonna twist everything I say, I'm like, what would you've said? Right. Like, if you're saying, like, this other person did it,

why are you thinking they're gonna pin it on you? I mean, I think she, she's cleaning up crime scenes. Let's be real. She knows what she's doing. And she's seen some shit and she's saying nothing. And she doesn't want to implicate herself and get herself time. You're finding IDs.

Yeah. Why would he have IDs? And women's purses and bloody clothing because he's killing women and keeping their shit. Right. It's pretty clear. Opened your eyes, Lisa. Doesn't take like a ton of neurons to put that one together.

Well, the thing that aggravates me is like, you're gonna tell these people something's going on, but then when it really comes time to talk about it, you're gonna, nope, yeah, that's the thing. It's like you don't say anything at all. Then don't say anything at all. Running your mouth all over the place until it really counts.

Right. And she later said that she believes the meat that she eaten on the farm or had taken home was probably tainted with human remains. So why would you not be upset about that and want to put that person in jail forever? It's a lot of people who do a lot of bad shit and they've all got lots of shit on their record. They've all got lots of secrets.

So none of them want to talk. And it's like, but you're, so you're just like going to let these women just go by the wayside. like that sucks. Right. Because of your bad choices, that just really sucks. Right. That's why you can't trust anybody. No, you can't.

Everyone sucks. So again, friends of the farm are starting to suspect Willie. Like it's starting to become a thing where people are like some weird shit's happening here. Because so and then Scott Chubbs, our old friend Scott Chubs, he had been working on the farm for years at this point. He knew them for a long time. He was much closer to Dave than he was Willie. Right. But he said he started kind of like putting some shit together, the more and more he was seeing. And he said there were again women's clothing on the premises that he was like,

I know that there's women there a lot and like visitors and friends and stuff. But it's all in women. And like, is how they would often bring sex workers back and stuff, but he's like, why? Why? And then he's like, some of it looks like it has blood on it. I don't know. And why are we keeping it?

Like in jewelry, shoes, IDs, purses, he was like, things you don't leave without. Things you, yeah, things you just don't leave without. And he said, and you know, I would see women come to the trailer and I just never see them again. I never saw them leave. And he's like, and I always questioned it, but I was like, maybe I'm just being crazy,

but so scary. I can't imagine being that close to it all. Right. And then he said on top of it, the fact that he's the skilled butcher certainly doesn't like obviously butchers are not serial killers, but you add on to all this that he does enjoy pulling apart animals. Right.

Like seems to take it like as like a very fun, pleasurable experience. He's like cheese and inferno. So all these dead pigs. Yeah, there's tons of pictures of him with like a pig hanging in the background. And he's like psyched and covered in blood. Right, like not, okay, the thing that really bothered me

was that he wasn't wearing gloves in one photo and his hands were just soaked in blood. Right, like not, okay, the thing that really bothered me was that he wasn't wearing gloves in one photo and his hand was so distressed. And he never was in blood. He never was. Oh! In fact, some of the people who said that they went to buy meat at points would like see him like handling the meat,

and they were like, he never wear gloves and his hands were fucking foul. And he's like filthy. So most people, a lot of people that I saw in articles were like, and I was like, no, I'm not buying meat from there. Just simply because he was so foul looking. Like contamination, shit. Like, ugh.

So in February of 1999, a kid named Andy Bellwood showed up at the farm because this farm has become a thing now too, where like, like I said, you're down on your luck, come work at the farm. You're in recovery, come work at the farm. You don't wanna be your luck, come work at the farm. You're in recovery, come work at the farm. You don't wanna be in recovery, come work at the farm. Like you're criminal trying to run away from the law,

come work at the farm. So, and they're just gonna let you sleep somewhere. Wherever. There's lots of places you can sleep in the back of a pickup truck on the property if you want. So Andy Bellwood comes up at the farm. He had just gotten out of rehab. He needed a place to chill.

He wanted to get back on his feet. And a friend had set him up to chat with Willie because he was like, maybe this guy can give you just like a job in there because he's always given people jobs. He's got tons of money. Yeah. Maybe it'll help get just keep your mind busy. Right. Keep you on the right track. Straighten narrow. No, so he was doing jobs for Willie around the farm. He was doing some of the other stuff. And then he's just kind of like hanging and he's staying at the farm. Uh-huh. Now, one month later, and one month into him staying, Willie, like, randomly came into his room, he said, and he was like, he was watching TV. And Willie just like comes and sits on the bed next to him and was like, hey,

do you want to come downtown east side with me to the low tracks, which is what they called the place where you picked up all the sex workers, the low track? That's nice. They said, do you want to come with me and pick up some sex workers? And Andy was like, yeah, no, I'm good.

And he was like, I'm just wasn't into that. He was like, I knew they all did it. I just didn't want to do it. Yeah. So he was like, no, I'm good. So it. I just like didn't want to do it. Yeah. So he was like, no, I'm good. So Willie got like pissed that he didn't want to come with him. And while Andy sitting there watching TV,

he says, he said that Willie just kind of like started telling him what his methodology was basically. Like he was like, and this is exactly what Andy says. Quote, he told me he would pick them up downtown. He would draw them in with drugs or money. He had difficult times getting them to come to the farm because of, you know, they're very nervous about going out to that area. Yeah, if he had, if he could entice them to come to the farm, of course, being on being

drug addicts or whatnot, it would be an easy way to get them to come to the farm. So that's what Andy said, that like Willie was very much harping on the idea of like, I like girls that are drug addicts, so that I can apply them with drugs, which is very, you know, the antithesis of what he was saying to the woman that he almost tried to, the one that he basically accused of stealing his wallet. And then she flung the buttons off her shirt and then just drove her back down town. Like nothing happened. Right. He told her I like to help girls get clean.

And if they relapse, then they're not, they don't deserve to live. So to me, this is saying like no women deserve to live. Right. Like nothing, he's just, he hates all women. That's just what it is. I wonder if he would like, like get one girl to come back to the place and like do whatever.

And like he said, like he was trying to help her get clean and then even like find her again and then kill her. Do you think that was something that he was doing? Or do you think he's just a bullshitter? I think he's just a bullshitter. Yeah, I don't think he, he doesn't want to help anybody get clean. No.

The first thing he does when he picks him up is offer drugs. The first thing he does is say I have drugs at my house. Right, so it's just a good excuse. It's just a boy. Yeah. Because he had just scared the shit out of this girl. And for one reason or another, he didn't want to kill her. So he just brought her out.

Well, we see that happen all the time where it's just like, how did that person get away? But it's just whether or not he snapped in the moment or whatever. Yeah. It's not a shot snapped because it's just like, so he's already snapped. And I think he was just trying to like, I don't even know, like just make himself look better to this woman for a minute. Like, oh, see, I didn't mean to like, accuse you of that and like, try and like, rip the buttons off your shirt. Like, I'm a good guy. He like, he like, Dr. Jekyll and like, Mr. Hyde. Yeah. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill?

Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valow, a K.A. Mommy Doom stays motives and what

drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder. I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So the next thing that Andy said, and this is pretty like graphic, so just say, you know, because he's telling what Willie told him. Yeah. He said, quote, he would put them on the bed, bring them into his into his room from what it was explained to me, do them doggie style on the bed. That would be have the woman on her knees with her face facing the bed, doing, you know, he would grab their hands and bring one back slowly, bring the other back, handcuff them and strangle

them. That's what he told Andy. He did. He also mentioned that Willie said he repeatedly told these victims the entire time, it's going to be all right. Things are going to be okay now. That's what he would say while it was happening. And you would also say, that's a good girl.

Like you would say to an animal. Yep. You would say that to an animal to try to keep them dossal. Isn't that what you say to an animal? Like, I don't know. Like that's what I say to like Bailey when I'm trying to calm her down.

I'm like, that's a good girl. Like you're okay. Everything's gonna be okay. And that's what you would do with an animal you're trying to calm her down, I'm like, that's a good girl. Like, you're okay. Everything's gonna be okay. And that's what you would do with an animal you're trying to keep dauce. I feel like he looks at this entire experience as like, I have to like anesthize this animal because that's how he looks at women.

I gotta go. It's insane. That just freaks me out that like, that's a good girl. I don't like that at all. Yeah, and he says. I also think that I think, yes, that's part of girl. I don't like that at all. Yeah, and he said, I also think that, I think, yes, that's part of it with keeping an animal tocile. I also think that it's a very huge scare factor

when you're like, for sure. Saying like, it's when you're doing something terrifying, but using a calm voice. Yeah, for sure. Because I don't think he had any business trying to keep anyone calm. I think he just wants them to shut the fuck up. So he's like, I'm just gonna do this.

I think he just wants to be a junk the fuck up. So he's like, I'm just gonna do this. I think he just wants to be a judge. And then Willie jumped on the bed beside Andy and he grabbed a leather belt and he wire in handcuffs that he had like lying around and acted out in front of him. No. What he would do. He pretended to basically feel up a woman like gently, like act like he was like getting busy.

And then he pretended to attach handcuffs to a wrist and then he mimed strangling her with the leather belt. And he's doing this because he has mad at this kid. Like, because fuck, this kid said, no, I don't wanna go get sex workers with you. This is what Willie does though. He overshares and then he immediately regrets it. Right.

It's like he has that kind of personality where he just like he's like, you want to hear something? Like he tells a lot of people like, I know how to kill people. I've killed people. All you have to do is this. And then later he's like, what? I didn't do that. But then he told Andy, do you know how much people bleed? You wouldn't believe how much people bleed.

And then he said, after that, I take them to the barn, hang them and gut them. Oh my God. Like a joke. I mean, like we've said this entire time, there's how many people coming in and out of this farm. Somebody had to have seen a body hanging over there. Oh, for sure.

Well, then he said the pigs will eat anything and whatever wasn't eaten by the pigs would be taken to the rendering pilling. So Andy's like, cool. Brings for that. And she's terrified. And at this point, Andy was like, I'm leaving by. So four days later, Andy was taken to the side by two of Picton's friends. And he was mercilessly beaten. Oh, no. And it's because Willie, all of a sudden said that he thought Andy was stealing some of his tools.

Oh yeah, so he was like, beat him with an inch of his life. And they did. Wow. So as they, and it's just insane. So he believed it was Willie's way of warning him to keep his mouth shut. He got his shut up.

And Andy had enough after that. He took the next fairy to Vancouver Island and he never looked back. I don't blame him. And then, until he came forward, and was like, I gotta tell you guys my story. I mean, I do have to say he should have told the story a lot sooner, but I understand that he was beaten with an inch of his life. Yeah, that was scary.

So, I get that. And the poor guy, I feel like, I mean, I don't know a lot about Andy. Maybe he's not a good person, I don't really know. But it seemed like he was trying to get it together. I don't think that's the best way to get it together, but like he was at least trying to do something. It seems like the farm was probably the worst place you could possibly go if you're trying to get it together,

but I don't think- I don't think- I don't think anywhere to go. He also doesn't seem like he was really intending on being involved in that kind of shit. Absolutely. I just wanna do my shit and watch my TV and go to my head down.

Now, I had mentioned before that Gina Houston and Dina, Gina and Dina, yeah, that Dina and had called a woman named Alinn who had hung out at the farm. Yeah. She had wanted her to meet her and Willie and that she was sure that that was to kill her. And you said that was going to come back. Well, now we're going to meet Will Ellingsen. You said that was going to come back. Well now we're going to meet Will Ellingsson. She was an addict who had come to work and was trying to, basically, she was not trying to get into recovery or anything. She just had heard that Picton's farm was a place that she could get lots of drugs.

She was really there for the good time. Not a long time, just a good time. She came to work for them and actually increased her habit exceedingly. Because it seems like that would be the place to go if it was to. Yeah, for sure. One night, Willie asked her to come pick up a sex worker with him. And he was like, I think that the girl will be like chilled out by you being in the car, like, and will be more likely to come back with me.

And I'm sorry, is this a sex worker too? She did work, I think, at some point, but she's not at this point. Okay. Yeah. So he was like, can you just come in the car? Like, you'll have to be a little... Yeah, they'll feel a little more, because they were starting to get a little weird out by men.

They were being more, like, choosy and stuff, because remember, they're all working together now being, and he's on the bad date list. Right. So, so she was like, um, she was like, all right, cool, I'll come with you. Um, and they went, they picked her, they picked up a woman, the woman was immediately kind of like, soused by Lynn, Lynn being in the car. So it kind of worked. Yeah. When they went back to the farm, they all, they like separated. Lynn was like, all right, bye. Do your thing. Yeah, go do your thing. And Lynn went into her room.

And at this point, Lynn was in the same trailer as Willie. And it was like a bigger trailer. So she had a room at one end and his was at the other. So she went into her room. The woman and Willie went into his bedroom. And Lynn said she was just hanging out in her room. And then she thought she heard a scream outside. So she ended up making her way towards Willie's room to see if they had heard her or if something was happening.

And they weren't in there. And so she was like, what the hell? So she looked out the window and she saw a light on in the barn where the slaughtering happens. Right. And it was this weird creepy little like bulb hanging from the ceiling kind of thing. Like swinging around. Like Texas chainainsaw Massacre. Yup. She went out there and she says she saw a woman hanging dead from the hook that they

held the pigs from. You would never be the same. She said, and I quote, so I just started walking to the barn. As I started approaching the barn, there was a really rude smell. It was awful. I got to the front door, the doors of the barn and there was a really rude smell. It was awful. I got to the front door, the doors of the barn and pushed the door open. And all I could see were these legs, these

feet dangling. So I was standing there. I just kind of froze, and I yelled, Willie, and he came from behind the door, and he grabbed me. By my arm, and by my arm, and I had to go in. Now he walked, walked to the table. It was a really shiny table. I remember it just being like bright. There was a light. It wasn't the light that was on wasn't the normal light. It was a light in the back in the back of the barn. Kind of just the way it was angled and he made me stand at the end of the table. I just I remember feeling really not well. I was gonna be sick, I thought. I had nothing in my stomach. I was just dry heaving. It was, the odor was awful. I kept seeing those legs. I didn't move my eyes around. I was just in shock. And at my eye level, I could see was those legs, toes, and

red nail polish on them. They were colored. I had seen hair on the table, and I didn't know what else was on the table, but it wasn't pretty. Oh my God. And then she said, he was cutting something. There was blood everywhere. I just remember staring at her feet. She was hanging the same way they hung the pigs. There was a chain right there.

That's where she was, where he does his pigs. And then he told her that if she ever said anything about what she saw, that she would be hanging right next to her in the same position. Oh my gosh. So she kept quiet until much later. She also mentioned that in when she was telling the story, she had said something like I didn't know that fat was yellow.

Oh okay. And so this, because later, what we will see is she does what everyone else does and doesn't want to talk about it and denies it. What the police said though was that initial statement where she said, and I didn't realize that fat was yellow is pretty telling. Because one, a lot of people don't know that fat is yellow and a lot, and that's just something very specific. Right. That you wouldn't say unless you saw it. You know what I mean? That's a very visceral thing to say. Yeah.

If you're making that up, you wouldn't just be like, and I didn't know fat, that's a weird thing to add to that. It's a strange detail. Yeah. So that kind of gave credence to the fact that it was true. The fact that she saw that. Yeah. And the red nail polish.

I know that our toes were colored. You and I always wear red nail polish. Yeah. And it's just so like, you think of that woman toes were colored. You and I always wear red and orange. It just freaks me. And it's just so like, you think of that woman painting her nails. Painting her nails. It's just like a very simple day to day. That's just like something a lot of us do and that sucks. And it's like, it's a very self-care kind of thing.

It is. And it's like, oh, I don't like it. And it's like the last time she painted her nails, she had no idea that that was the color she was going to die wearing. Right. You know, there's something about that. So police were now hearing that like sex workers in the area were working together that they were trying to help each other out.

They learned about the bad date list and they soon discovered that Willie was on it. So now they're starting to put a little bit more together being like, all right, we're hearing his name a lot. So in January 1999, Jacqueline McDonnell, only 22 years old, and a mother of one, she went missing. She had actually, like, some of these other women, had actually been in recovery and gotten clean when she was pregnant, but unfortunately it fell back into it when the baby was born. Yeah. She had moved back into it when the baby was born. She had moved back into the low tracks, working as a sex worker again, and she started using again. She had plans to get clean, and people who knew her really believed that she had the potential

to get there, because she was only 22. You've got a whole life ahead of you that you can make the turn around. The problem was she had stopped coming to a woman's resource source center that she had been consistently visiting to try to get on the better track. She stopped showing up. People immediately knew something bad happened. The next one to go missing was 32-year-old Brenda Ann Wolfe. She, no one's quite sure what month she went missing in because it's a little like weird. She had also been struggling, and was attempting to regain custody of her son. She had also gotten clean while pregnant,

but had fallen back into it. She was known as a wonderful kind person. The next one was Jennifer Lind for Mingur. She was an indigenous woman. She, at the time, she was working as a sex worker. She was given up for adoption at birth, but was adopted by a sex worker. She was given up for adoption at birth but was adopted by a loving family. She just fell in with hard crowds like early on, like lots of drugs, lots of partying early on. She had an on and off boyfriend at the time named Noel Paris and he said about her quote,

Jenny's idea of a good time was to sit cross-legged on the couch and read a good book. Oh. He said he had actually seen her on the street corner the day that she was last seen. He didn't see her get into a car, but he saw a cop pull up next door and like talk to her and then leave and then she was gone after that. He reported her missing three months later because they weren't dating at the time, so they weren't in constant contact. But he said he was having trouble getting in touch with her because she was like seeing someone else.

And he said, so it took three months because he was like by three months of like not being able to get in contact with her. He was the one who filed the missing persons report. But they basically were like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. The next one to go missing was March 2nd, 1999. Georgina Papin. She was drinking at the Astoria hotel with Willie Picton. A friend Sharon Baptiste said that she immediately found

him creepy and weird when she saw him. She was withdrawing and he actually gave her 20 bucks and told her to go get drugs and come back. So he's not trying to get these women clean. No. She thought he was creepy, but she was like, cool. I'll just take your money and I'll go go get drugs and come back. So he's not trying to get these women clean. No. She thought he was creepy, but she was like, cool. I'll just take your money and I'll go get the drugs. And she didn't return.

Because he gave her the money and said, go get drugs and come back. Yeah, you think I'm coming back? Yeah. She heard that Georgina left with him and soon after no one saw her again. Right. So Scott Chubb later said he had also seen Willie with Georgina that night. And he said a couple of days after this,

she went, this girl, what was her name? Sorry, Sharon went back to the Astoria and Willie saw her and screamed at her for taking his money for drugs and not coming back. And then he punched her in the head. Oh my God. Like punched her in the side of the head. And just in the middle of this bar.

Yeah. Because these are kind of places that like no one gives a shit. That's nuts. It's just violent and horrific. Yeah. Like punched her in the side of the head because like, nobody's before he had given her money and what? Like nobody does anything about it.

No one does anything about it. And these women aren't reporting things like this because it's just, because they know that it happens all the time and no one's going to do anything. So in July of the same year, these missing women were actually featured on America's most wanted. And Lynn, who, the Lynn we just talked about, her ex-husband, Ross Caldwell, who was also hanging around the farm all the time. And he was also one of the guys

who beat the shit out of Andy. Oh, awesome. He told police about Lynn seeing the butchering. He like went to police and told them after seeing this on the TV. These are like the cedeest characters. Yes, but he said that he also said that he was high at the time when he told them

so they didn't believe him, but they figured they would talk to Lynn herself. This is when she denied just like Lisa Yelts, but they noticed that whole yellow fat thing. This is when they were like, huh, they're like, that's weird because they had actually tried to make her feel like sympathy for these women by being like, they must have suffered so much, like, you know, don't you wanna end the suffering like more women could get there? And she got really upset. And she was like, no, I've never seen a dead body.

I've never seen a dead body. And then she was like, she was like, I'm probably trying to put it out of her head. And they were like, then why do you know that fat is yellow? Right. And she was like, I don't, I don't. Like, wouldn't say it.

But they were like, she knows, like 100%. Now she in particular was doing the refusing, because Lisa was doing the denying because she didn't like the cops and I think she just didn't want to get involved. She also was really close to Willie. And like, she's cleaning up crime scenes. She doesn't want to be implicated. She's too into it, I think. She's too far into it. She's been there for decades at this point. She's, her hands are, she's probably worried for decades at this point. Her hands are wide. She's probably worried that if Willie goes to jail, she might end up with jail time.

And she had kids, so I don't know if she was just trying to be like, I, whatever, I don't have anything to do that. And your nose to the ground. She was bonded with Willie, too. They were like siblings. Right. But Lynn is a little different. So Lynn's reason for not doing this was that she was going to use it

to blackmail Willie Because she went back to him was like I didn't tell them what I saw But you know what I saw so you're gonna pay me money every week good and he did not good I shouldn't have said like you know what I mean, but and he did yeah He started paying our shit out of money every week for her silence But that's actually not now that I think of that like come on like you're using this as a way of making money You're all shit people. Yeah, that's actually very shitty every that I think of that, like come on, you're choosing this as a way of making money. You're all shit people.

Yeah, that's actually very shitty. Every part of this is shit. Yeah. Now, at the end of 1999, a sex worker named Tiffany Drew when missing, her friends all had a buddy system for Johns at the time and she had not called in when she was supposed to. They were on a very strict system

and she didn't call when she was supposed to. So this is and she had never come home that night. So they were like, nope, something's wrong. Her family and friends begged police to take notice, but they basically told her the same thing. Lifestyle, high risk, couldn't do anything. This is when the an internal audit was done on the Vancouver police department. And it was actually, I think that the audit was done like years before, but it was never really like opened up and given to the public. And it was by the Vancouver Sun. And the internal audit basically looked into the missing persons department and found that it was an absolute disaster, clearly. But they were saying that that's a new guy, the guy who we

were talking about before was actually trying to get it working again. But the guy who was working there before was just one officer working this whole department. And then there was just like one civilian like, you know, office assistant or whatever. No, just an office assistant just like doing clerical shit. And they said that there was no record keeping done, no follow ups or ever done on these cases.

They said there was no like evidence connecting. They weren't keeping any records. So they weren't able to keep this chain to say that there was a serial killer at large because they weren't keeping any of the records. So it's like none of it was working. It's insane. So December 1999, Wendy Crawford went missing. She was living in a mobile home in a trailer park, and she had two kids, who she was raising, like the best she could with the little money she could. So she used sex work as kind of like a side hustle to kind of like supplement her income.

And the day she went missing, a 14 year old neighbor saw her for the last time and wrote on that missing person's website, quote, I remember the last day that anyone saw Wendy alive. I was on my porch getting my dogs leashed and blah blah blah. From my porch, I saw Wendy get into the truck with an ugly looking man. Definitely will he be there. There he is. About two weeks after the date, nurses had been coming to Wendy's trailer as she needed medication.

After so many unanswered attempts, the police were called. I walked down to talk to the police because she said her mom had told her you should go talk to them, like, be a good person. And she said, when I began talking to the officer, all I got out was, I saw Wendy about a week ago get into.

And I was rudely cut off with, you're just a kid, you don't even know what you're talking about. So they don't even give a fuck? No. Wow. And she said to this day, I hurt so badly to think that maybe I if I had just stood up and said what I knew, maybe we wouldn't be reading her name under the headlines.

But you tried to. So many people feel so guilty, but it's not on you. It's on the police department. It's on the police department. Who did nothing. So thus far, the investigation, I think I said it in the first episode that they were calling it project Amelia. I'm also like, what operation? And I know. Well, now that they're starting to like try to get into like, because they've hired that new person to run the department.

And he was like, really going at it. They're calling the project even handed now. Because now that they're getting Willie's name coming up all the time, they're starting to try to take it seriously, I guess, as seriously as they can possibly do it. So more things coming out about Willie. Scott Chubb basically says that they were working on the farm one day.

Because remember, he's now paying Lynn to keep her silent. Right, that's to start getting old. Mm-hmm. And we know how Willie handles like people he doesn't want around. Okay, he kills them exactly. So Scott Chubb said that they're working on the farm one day and he said out of nowhere, Willie basically offered him to hurt Lynn. He said he was sick of paying her and he said he offered him a thousand dollars, which is like what? You have a lot of money, dude. And told him, and this is horrible.

He told him, you know, I once injected antifreeze into someone. What? And he said they just died right away. And then he said, so if you do that to someone who's just a junkie, the RCMP will think it's just an overdose. Oh my God. So he was basically telling him to go inject a Lynn with antifreeze because it will just look like she overdosed. That is insane. And Scott Shubb was like, no, I'm not going to do that. In 2000, it was slightly quieter than missing girls. But then people were starting to understand the pattern

that was happening every year because the police were going, oh, it's done. We don't have a lot. So I think he's gone, guys, everything's fine. But people in the area were like, no, it really picks up in the holiday season. That's when people start going missing. And you're right.

Because there's more sex workers out trying to pay for gifts so it's not worth. I don't know, it just happened to be, it was happening throughout the year. Just the last two weeks. But they were like, just wait, like the holiday season, it's really gonna be like a spike. Yeah.

So in 2000, they were right because at the end of the year, Don Cray, Debra Jones and Shara Abraham went missing, boom, boom, boom. This is when things went into overdrive for project to even hand it because now they're real fucked. So at this point, Willie was a prime suspect. They finally moved him into like, okay, he's probably the guy. So they made it a priority to look into people that were charged with crimes, particularly

violent ones against sex workers in the area. This is why he became a priority because obviously we know the Emily story. And also because he had an isolated Disgusting farm that attracted the worst kind of people on planet earth that he could take people to that he could do whatever he wanted to Yeah, so they were like he's got motive. He's got means. He's got a history. We know, you know And also the fact that he was on the bad date list for sex workers is not helping his case here at all. And on top of that, I didn't even think of it. I pulled over. There's more.

I'm also thinking he also had an endless supply of cars that he can use. He's using a different car all the time. This is very like reminding me a little bit of the little things. Yeah, it really does. You're right. Now, in the beginning of 2001, Patricia Johnson, Heather Bottomley, and Heather Chinnick went missing. That was just in the beginning. 2001.

By June 1st, 2001, Andrea Jonesbury went missing. She was staying at the Roosevelt Hotel. And this was another place that Dina had tried to lure women out to the Picton Farm. She would like hang around there, like a creek. And she had started, so Andrea had started a methadone program and was actually doing therapy. Going to all her appointments, she was trying to get clean. So she was trying to get it all together, but on June 5th,

she didn't show up for her methadone treatment. And her doctors immediately were like, nope, she's been coming. And she's on a good trip, like she wouldn't miss this. So they sounded the alarm bells, and they informed her family. They were like, something's wrong here. So her brother actually went to the downtown east side to search for her. Because again, these, see, like they have people who love the hair.

And he and police spoke with the men who ran the Roosevelt where she was staying. And one manager said that she had left the previous evening, but it was pouring out. And the manager had warned her, maybe you shouldn't go because it's bad weather. And she said she would be fine. She was just gonna go to Coquitlam.

Mm-hmm. And so the door man at that same hotel said, he had heard Dina on the phone at the front desk arranging to get Andrea out to Willie. Oh shit. So they were like, that's definitely good. It's so crazy to me that he had all these women working for him to get other women.

Yeah. I can't imagine calling and being like, hey girl, what's up? You wanna come to Willie's tonight? Like knowing full well that this guy's a piece of you. Knowing exactly what's gonna happen. Right. That is so f**k. I mean, even not knowing what's gonna happen. Right. Like that is so fuck.

I mean, even not knowing what's gonna happen, I can't have to do that. But just knowing that he's disgusting and that like he's not a good guy. Right. Even if he's not a murderer. Like what are you doing? Why are you bringing them out to this hellhole?

Like that, oh, there's plenty of other jobs. But they're just looking for money that's all they're looking for. Now, here's another, because there's a few close calls in this case, and here's one of them. In August 2001, a woman named Katrina Murphy, she was 35 years old, she had been visiting her husband in Kent prison. One of the other wives that went with her, that was going to visit her husband as well, drove her halfway home after the meeting with the husbands, and she was like, I'll just hitchhike the way home for the evening,

because I was just like a thing. Yeah. So Willie came by and picked her up. And she said, as soon as she jumped into the van, she gagged at the smell. She said immediately it hits you like a brick wall. Yeah. She said it was like rotting meat and dirty clothing, because that's exactly what it was. Because imagine his clothes too clothes to all the splatter

and they're just crusted. Like just, oh my god. They chatted a bit, but she was very scared, and she said like he was very creepy. Like immediately she just didn't get a good vibe. She mentioned that her husband was in Kent, and he basically was like, so he wouldn't miss you if he didn't go home tonight.

Oh, that's literally what he said. And she insisted he calls me every night. We talk every night. So yes, he would miss me if I didn't go home. And then she was like, actually a lot of people would miss me. I have a lot of people who care about me and would wonder where it was tonight. Like made sure to be like, ha ha.

By the way, yeah, just so you know. She then noticed that there were no handles on the inside doors. he had removed them. Fuck that only so hard. There was only a handle on his door. Okay Ted Bundy with the bus. Yes. So he sped right past where she had asked him to drop her off.

Oh fuck. So she's panicking and she's like yelling, being like, drop me the fuck off. What are you doing? And she's literally digging in her purse at this point, trying to find something to like hit him with or do something. He drove into an industrial park, and she grabbed a pencil from her purse and stabbed him in the side of the neck with it.

Wow. And then dove over, when he came to a stop, she dove over his lap, opened his door, and just face first launched herself out of the car. Wow, and it is the car still moving at this point. No, he had stopped the just face first launched herself out of the car. Wow, and is the car still moving? No, he had stopped the car, but she dove out into, and it was a van, so it was high up.

And she dove face first into gravel, and she apparently like sliced herself up all the gravel, but she had no idea. It was really bad, and she didn't realize. She ran across the street to a gas station, and a 17 year old kid was pumping gas and was like Can I help you like he helped her until like and then cops arrived took the report and then we're like, okay Bye and just left her there. What the fuck did they just left her way to go home or anything?

Nope, and she's standing there bleeding and she's like What they just left. They were like, yeah, we'll see what we can do. Wow. It was an old man at the gas station that was like, I can drive you home. And at this point, she's probably like, no thanks. And she was like, sure. Oh my god. Imagine you got to get in the car with somebody else you don't know. Yeah. Like, because the police aren't helping you, there's like, thanks for the report. You should put a bandaid all over everything. Yeah, like you should use some neosporin on the like it'll get infected by. She should have gone to the hospital.

I know. So the same year Serena Abbott's way, 29 was last seen the same month, August 2001, Diane Rock, 34 was gone on October 19th, and Mona Wilson, 26 was missing on November 23rd. The same year, there's another close call. Terry Gratton was offered 100 bucks by Willie to come back to the farm and she accepted. She said that there were two other women in the truck when he picked her up and the smell was so bad that she started choking.

I wonder if it was Dina and Gina. She actually had really bad asthma. Like she actually had to like use oxygen at times. The smell was so bad that when she started having an asthma attack in the car. Oh my God. And so she screamed to be let out because she was like, I'm literally gonna die in your car.

He pulled over, but before she could get out of the car, he punched her in the face. And then pushed her out of the car. What the fuck? Yep. And she didn't report it because she was like, nobody's gonna care anyway. Oh my God.

Yeah, punched her in the face in front of the other woman. So 2002, he was really high on the list of missing women at this time, at this point, they're putting the case together, but they have no way of searching that property unless they have a, like a firm reason. I mean, you know, like, I think of 40.

I can too, but it legally, they don't know. They need a reason to go search this property like totally. Uh, well, Scott Chubs. Hey, oh, comes in. He was still trying to get his information taken seriously by anyone who would listen. So he approached a rookie cop by the name of Officer Wells and he told him, he's like, I know you guys are trying to get on that farm. And he was like, would the fact that he has illegal firearms help you get a search warrant?

And they were like, yeah. Yep, yep. It sure would. Thank you. So they sent him back and had him find out where the firearms were, which he said was like the scariest thing ever. And then he called and was like, yep, they're here. And I can tell you exactly where they are on his trailer. And they were able, so he told them Willie had three guns in his trailer. And he said, he also made sure to tell him too

about how Willie had told him he injected sex workers with window washer fluid and antifreeze. Oh fuck. So the RCMP were finally like, we have a reason to search. Like, yay. Final. At least partially. At least for firearms.

And while we're there, we can take a peek around. So oh boy, they were able to get a search warrant. OK. They searched and they found way more than what they were bargaining for. They literally rammed into Willie's trailer because he just, he saw them coming and was like, what the fuck? And then she got in his trailer and locked the door and they were like, we're just going to open that.

Yeah. So they just rammed through. They arrested him immediately so that they could search. It was filthy as everyone had said. They said it was worse. They probably needed like hazmat suits. There was dirt and mud and garbage literally everywhere inside and outside feces of various animals

and who knows what else was smeared on almost everything including the ceiling. Bugs were everywhere and the smell was so bad that it made investigators gag. What they found in there, just on first, we're looking for firearms, so they can't touch anything, and they can't take anything else. They're there for firearms, which they found.

But they also just peeked around, of course, because they were like, then we can get another search warrant because they's arrested now. So what they saw upon their initial search was women's IDs, women's clothing, at least two pairs of fuzzy handcuffs with one being tested positive for blood on it. Zip ties, two dildos, a box full of kitchen knives by the bed, papers with missing women's names on them, a gun, this is like a lot, a gun with a dildo stretched over the barrel. Do you want to guess what he would do with that? Shoot them in the vagina. Oh, either that or rape them with a gun. Oh my god.

Either way, horrific. Eww. Horrific. Like the fact that that was in that trailer, what the fuck? That is, I've never even heard of that. There was also a glass jar with a ton of women's like hair ties and brats and stuff in it. That he was like collecting.

And the biggest thing that let them get the next search warrant was an asthma inhaler with Serena Abbott's way's name on it. Oh my God. The disc, this gave the police the grounds to get a complete search for the problem. Why was it the asthma inhaler, not the IDs? Well, because I think it's like an ID, I'm not really positive, like why?

Because I don't know if they were all like the kind of IDs that you can really use for that kind of thing. Like they could have a different kinds of IDs. I know there were some like birth certificates and for that kind of thing. They could have been different kinds of IDs. I know there were some birth certificates and other kind of papers. They weren't necessarily all drivers licenses or anything like that. But I know that the Serena Abbott's ways thing

was the thing that really got them. This is the smoking run that let them at least get the search warrant to go back on the property. Okay. And that's where we're going to leave it for part two. You're fucking serious? You didn't even tell us that we were coming to a close. We're really, really, really good. I am everybody in their car or cleaning in their kitchen or like that just put their bed, their kid to bed and like is drinking a glass of wine and is

whinging at you. Well, don't worry because the next part is going to be ad-free. Yeah. And it's going to be a bonus episode. Yes. So you're getting three episodes this coming week because we just, I knew I had to finish this one and Ash has two really good cases. So we're like, well, you got them all. Oh my goodness. What we're going to talk about next is that this is the biggest search in Canada's history like crime scene search. They had to go like bit by bit in this place.

It gets, do they end up finding bodies on the farm? They do. Okay, but not how you think. So part three is gonna be that, and we're gonna be talking about Willie and Jail. We'll talk about all that. Oh, oh, key, dokey. So we have just found all the things we need.

I can't believe you're, I just wait for, Biach, waiting for the next search warrant. Oh my God, I'm gonna read part three before anybody else. Ha-ha-ha! Alright, well, you can find us on Instagram. At morbid podcast.

Send- Send us a Twitter. Send us a Twitter. Not what you do. At A morbid podcast. Send us a Twitter. Send us a Gmail. MeloBidPodcast.gmail.com.

Hope you keep this up. I don't know what that was. And we hope you keep it. Weird! That's a weirdo you just randomly go British in the middle of nothing. Okay, bye. You can keep it that weird, that's fine. Yeah, definitely just, if that's the weirdo you're gonna keep it go ahead.

Keep it more that weird. Yeah, this weird level. Bye. Wowie. Cause that we. That level. Bye. Because we are. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.