Morbid - Episode 212: Willie Pickton Part 3 AD FREE!!!

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

The third and final part of this absolute nightmare has arrived. This episode covers the investigation on the farm TW: some serious animal cruelty is mentioned in the first half. Alaina will take us through some of the things found on the farm, what was done during the investigation to identify remains and what could potentially happen going forward! Missing & Murdered Indigenous Women & Girls https://www.mmiwg-ffada.ca/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Olena. And this is morbid. It sure is. I never know. Oh. That's just. Just. Just slammed.

Pop filter on her microphone. Yeah. You know what it is. Normally, just lit it. And pop filter on her microphone. Yeah, you know what it is. Normally I have it like there's like a little wire on it that comes up but yeah mine is facing down and it usually comes up and over. It really threw it for a loop. A loop. Really, really mercury retrograde. Did you write there?

Oh my god that mercury retrograde is over. Couldn't be happier. See ya. Wouldn't it want to be retrograde? Yeah, you know when the next fucking Mercury retrograde is though? When the fuck is it? It's during my birthday. Hate that for you.

Yeah, but you know what? A Gemini will stay shining. That's true. Fuck em all. There you go. I can't wait for my birthday. Oh god. We're not even close.

Totally. Yeah, we are. We're not even close. It's like are we're not even like three months away Oh, I'm saying it's March already April, May, June and it's like right at the beginning of June So basically it's only two months away. There you go. Everybody keep your countdowns going. What are you gonna get me? You know what I'm gonna get you? No part three of woolly pictures. I don't want that I would I would like the gift receipt for that please can't't have it. No, I can't give it back. No, I actually do want that. So let's get it. Well, today's episode is going to be ad-free and it's going to be shorter because this is just kind of a wrap-up. I didn't want to like, you know, rush all this at the end of part two and I just

wanted to give like one of those fun little clip hangers. And it's fun. It's fun to get an ad for your episode, because, you know, ads. This is a fucking carnival. It is. It's just a carnival. It's really, really fun time. You. But one thing I just wanted to say before I start is that I'm part two.

I was telling everybody, please go read this book on the farm because it's so good. Oh my goodness, the author is phenomenal and extraordinary. Stevie Cameron. And I said he, it's actually a woman. Oh. And a couple of our listeners actually pointed out. And then I also like just looked back into it and was like, oh, I don't know why I think I just like automatically said he. I don't know why. But yeah, it's a woman, Stevie Cameron. And she is phenomenal, insanely talented, and a very well-known journalist in Canada. I love that.

Reminds me of Stevie Nix. There you go, Stevie's a great name, and you know what? Go read on the farm, I'm still telling you that. Wait, what should we read? It's amazing the amount of stuff you are gonna get from this book that I couldn't even fit in here, that I didn't even want. I was like, you gotta go read the book. Did you get it on your Kindle Cloud reader? Yes I did. Could you share it with me? I can. All right. And you know what? I have the weirdest Kindle Cloud library. Oh, some of mine are children's books because when we were separated, I bought

like a bunch of Kindle books to read to your kids, but then I realized it would not work via FaceTime because I was on the FaceTime. Yeah, it didn't work, but it was a nice thought. Yeah, and it's nice to sprinkle those in. Yeah. So when we left you last time, the police had come to Willie Pickedin's farm. They had already found IDs and clothing. They had found fuzzy handcuffs, one being tested positive for blood. They found zip ties. They found dildos. they found a box full of kitchen knives next to his bed, they found papers and objects and bills and all other things with the missing women's names on them. And they found a gun with a dildo over it.

They found a gun with a dildo stretched over the barrel. That's not okay. That's so much. They also found this weird glass jar with a bunch of hair stuff in it. I mean, they found, and the thing that was really crucial was that inhaler of serena abits waste. Right. And so they were able to get the, the bigger search warrant to come back on the property.

This search became the biggest crime scene, like investigation and search and excavation at one point in Canada's history. Oh, I believe it. That farm is huge. It is unbelievable. The pictures, I urge you to Google pictures of the Picton Farm just so you can really get a feel for one how terrifying this place was, the two how disgusting this place was. Double, yeah. And three, how massive it is. It's huge. And then I think of these women who are being led to this farm when you arrive there, it must be, I mean, walking into that place, every picture I saw, I was like, I can't imagine getting out of a car and walking into that. I think

like this is not gonna end well. You have to know, breath the fuck out of there. But it's like, they were already in such a bad position. It sucks. Right. Now, this whole investigation ended up costing $70 million. Are you kidding me? Yes. Holy shit.

And they had to go like bit by bit. It took years into identify these women. Many of them remain and identified. There's, they were in bits and pieces. There was not one full body found on this farm. You're kidding. Yeah, they were all in pieces. They started with Willie's trailer because that was where they were really finding all the stuff. That's where they figured they would find more. They found Heather Bottomsley's, many of her items, like they found notebooks of hers,

they found clothes, IDs, all kinds of stuff with her name on them. They also found syringes filled with antifreeze. So he was not kidding when he saw that. He was not kidding. And one of the police officers actually on scene, it was a female police officer and she had worked on a farm. She lived and worked on a farm currently while they were doing this. Oh shit. So obviously to her walking into, because this is not normal. No. Like we talked in like part two, how you know that bolt gun, the pneumatic bolt gun,

is actually something that is used and it's very normal, but they will he wasn't using proper things. Like he wasn't, you know, he was using like a legit nail gun. Yeah. Which I know like a lot of our listeners who said like they worked on farms

or grew up on farms or just know that that Balkan is known as one a very normal thing to do. Right. But that aside, the way he was keeping these animals, the way he was treating them, the way he was slaughtering them, the way he was keeping them after slaughter, all of it was wrong. I hate that so much. If there's one thing that, honestly, like sometimes makes me angrier than like murder, murder is animal cruelty. Animal cruelty, like hurts me in a different part of my soul. Because you and I say it all the time,

animals are only here, like especially like dogs and cats and stuff, like they're here to like make you happy. Exactly, and it's like you choose to have an animal. Right, like yeah, no one made you take it. Like you actively had to go get an animal and bring it into your life, just treat it well. In most cases. Yeah, like just treat it well.

I know, like it seems like one of those things, like just, you know, it loves you. I just love it, there are so many things that you've said during this case that made me just wanna go get my cats. I know, right? And like kiss them. And the thing with this is like,

there are so many farms and you know places like this where they do it Correctly like the correct way like you know everybody has different opinions about like me dating and veganism and all that stuff I'm not gonna get into that because everyone has their own thoughts Yes, I'm not gonna go into what I think either but I think that like there are there's so many farmers who are doing these things in in correct way in the most humane way that I can. And it's like this makes it look crazy and that sucks because I'm sure a lot of farmers in Canada were like no what's not all farms. This is not what we do. Like we do this in the right way you don't have to worry about our meat. Well, and it's sad because like you said at one point they had like 700 pigs on that farm. So I can only imagine that what those 700 pigs went through. Yeah, which I guess 700 pigs on like a farm like this, which again, thank you to our listeners.

Oh, where they like talk that much. They were like actually that's like, that's a big, that's a nice big pick farm. Like that's very normal. But obviously in this case, you know, they were being treated horrifically and they were not taken care of and it's just really sad No, because you do see like these other farms where they're like really taking it like they devote their entire lives to taking care of these animals Because realistically that should be why you have a farm. Yeah It's just a bummer. Yeah, it makes you know it made farmers look bad and that's not cool

Mm-hmm. We like we love farmers. Yeah, they love to well our farmer listeners Hello farmer jobs. You guys have been awesome. The people that have like reached out and like, I just want to let you know what sloping is and let you know about that new bad at bulk gun. Somebody tell me on Twitter that they're going to slop their cats from now on. And I want to, I want to like steal that from them. It is, it's just a fun thing to say. When actually when I get home, because obviously I'm not home right now, I'm going to be like, Drew, did you slap the caps? Did you slap the caps?

And he's gonna be like, what the fuck? I'm gonna be like, get the face. Can you come back to where you went from? Yeah, he's gonna be like, when you go back to where you came from? From once you came, I have coffee next to me and it has not quite kicked in. No, not yet. At five. But yeah, so this one police officer that I was mentioning,

that lived on a farm herself grew up on one. She was actually, she was very interested in seeing these animals. She was like, I have to know what's going on here. And when she went into the slaughterhouse where, you know, Willie really enjoyed his time, she found, and just like fair warning, talking about like animal cruelty, basically. She found terrible condition. She found dead pigs. She found pigs that were sick and stacked on top of each other, just laying their sick and dying.

Why do you do that? Why? She found pigs with infections on their hooves and all this other, just terrible, terrible. One of them had just given birth to a litter of piglets. And the piglets had rolled down a hill in the mud. And they were dead, all of them. And one of the dogs on the property was like playing with them.

It was just, it was, it was, this was literal, these poor, I mean, these poor victims, these poor investigate, everybody who had to witness this, it just made a farm. It just sounds like it's hell on a farm. It's truly, like this is hell farm. Like this is what you would think of with like a horror movie

version of a farm. It sounds like a shutter special. Yeah. And I guess they did call in like vets and stuff and they tried to save some of them. They did euthanize a few because they just couldn't save them. Yeah. But they did try to do their best to try to get some,

and they got some of them and like put them in other places to try to rehabilitate them. Well, of them and like put them in other places. Like rehabilitation. Try to rehabilitate them. Well, like we said in part one or two, like pigs are one of the smartest animals on the planet. Oh yeah. Like they knew what was happening. And that's the thing.

And this woman who was one of the investigators, she, I couldn't find her name, but she was so upset about it that she like brought some with her back to her farm. I would have done that. She brought, she went and got them food from her farm and was giving them like good food, like that you're supposed to feed pig. Cause God only knows what you're supposed to do. It was so sad.

Like, cause that's like the other side of this is like obviously it's human beings. That's what we concentrate on. But it's like, there's also this whole awful other side of like, he wasn't just abusing people. He was also abusing the animals on his farm and it's awful It was like horribly rounded asshole. Yeah, just the worst of the worst kind of humanity that you could see So they found one thing they found a ton of it's just like weird sex toys and Willie's trailer which like

Makes me feel some type of way because when you look at him you're like You know, I just like why do you need that money? Yeah, it's just, and when it comes, when it's in this situation, it just, well, because that's the normal situation, you're like, live your life. We know that like 99.9% of the people that went there, it was not consensual. Yeah, and they were not leaving.

So, right. There was, and like, I think we had said in part two, that there was like walls that were clearly stained with blood that had been washed off. A ton of the mattresses were like soaked with dark fluid, like blood and other things. They found more women's clothing. They found purses.

They found jewelry, makeup, just everywhere. You know what was weird? And I think I posted the picture for part two. Outside of his trailer, he had almost like a deck kind of, and there was just a ton of office chairs. Yep. On the deck, like for no reason. He just needed them.

It was bizarre. You never know, like when your office chair starts to squeak, just go and get another one. Fuck the doctor, poor D. Just get that one. That's all that was. I don't know what you're talking about. But so back in the slaughterhouse,

when they finally cleaned it up with all the, you know, poor, infected, and suffering animals in there, they started looking around in there. And what they found was, they found the hooks in the slaughterhouse where he would hang the pigs. They found like little pieces of human skin on those hooks. Oh my God. Like, still there, just still there. They also would find, like, they found like little pieces of human, like not just skin

on there. Yeah, just tissue and flesh and whatever. Whatever. Whatever else was in there. So it was just right out in the open. And they used, according to The New York Times, they used, and I quote, earth movers, back hose, pay loaders, and conveyor belts

to move and shift and sift tons of top soil as investigators called samples of torn clothing, fingernails, and tiny body pieces for storage in a refrigerated trailer. Oh, wow. So they had to bring all these different machines into literally dig up the soil just so they could find little pieces of victims. Just like fragments.

Like horrific. And then they have to piece all this together. That's... And like at that point, how do you... Because like you said, they had so much trouble identifying people because at that point, how do you? Oh they had so much trouble identifying people, because at that point, how do you? Oh yeah, and Truss actually perfect question. Oh!

So we're gonna get into that right now. Cool. So, with complete certainty, they could finally, after everything, after all of this excavation, I mean years, they could literally just gonna say, hell yeah, they could identify the remains of only 27 victims, which is quite a lot,

but when compared to what he has done, what we think he has done, it's not a lot. And there's definitely many more remains on this farm that are unidentified. Do they ever plan to go back and try to look for more, or do they think they got everything they could? I think they got as much as they could. I'm sure this plenty more. Yeah. Like, because it's just the massive surface area, I think, is just in the way that, unfortunately, the way he disposed of these bodies and the way that he, you know, dismembered and will talk a little bit more about that. But I think it we're never going to find everything because most of it is gone.

Unfortunately, he lived in like the quote unquote perfect place. Exactly. And is evil shit. He lived in the perfect place and he had the perfect idea. Like he really did, unfortunately. He had it up as it is. He had an evil idea that worked. And unfortunately, that sucks.

But what investigators started doing was they started asking families of missing women in the area, like who had been missing forever all the missing women, to please come forward and give their DNA so they could try to do familial DNA comparisons. Right. It did work a little bit, but it was unfortunate because sometimes, you know, some of them weren't in touch with their family. Some of them they couldn't figure out who their family was and some of them the family had moved away. Or the family wasn't in the area so they couldn't give their DNA. It just, it became an issue. And then I guess in 2000, when all that, you know, by, in the

year of 2000, so when this was all going on, Canada didn't have a missing person's familial DNA database. I mean, it's still pretty new. Yeah. So if you, like if you reported a missing person's familial DNA database. I mean, it's still pretty new. Yeah, so if you reported a missing person, that was your family member, you couldn't give your DNA to add to a database. If that was the case, which of course, you know, this technology all came forward at not the perfect time. And if you came forward, you know, or if you found someone missing, you had nothing. If you didn't have, you know, their DNA, you couldn't really compare it to anything. Too much.

Right. If you just got this unknown DNA, you were like, well, we don't know what this is. Right. Because we have nothing to compare it to. Right. But obviously they're changing that now. But during the search, the investigators had obviously, like we said, found many slaughtered pigs.

They were able to see in the freezers where he kept the meat, how he did it. People told him how he did it. They were able to see from body parts, how he was doing it. This is important because he used the same techniques on women. And Sergeant Ross Spennerd was one of the investigators on scene. And he also went to the autopsy of Serena Abbot's way and she's the one that left the inhaler there. He said the injuries to her and the injuries to a pig that he found there were exactly the same. Meaning her wrists and her ankles had been broken in the same way that they had broken a pig's hawk to hang it on a hook.

My. Which basically left the ankle of the pig, like the hawk hanging by like tendons. That's it. Oh, wow. And that's what he did for these women. Do they know if he did it while they were still alive? They don't because they don't have enough, and he just never talks. They just never talk.

They don't have a complete body. They don't have like any, it's pieces. All they have is just bits and pieces. So that's all they're going with. It's horrific. And do you remember when I don't remember if it's part one or two, probably part two, we were talking about Lynn, the girl, Lynn, who was on the farm a lot. And she was the one who happened to see something. And she, she knew that like she was going to get the she got that call and she was like they were planning to come. Exactly. And she had seen somebody hanging on her recording. And she said, fat was yellow. Exactly. And she kind of was using that to kind of get

money out of him for a while. Yeah. Now really awesome. There was another story I'd mentioned briefly where she had seen on like one of the freezers once that it was like covered on top of the freezers with like a like a drape of some sort. And that she was like, oh that's weird. And she went to walk over to it. And Willie just looked at her and shook his head silently. And she just, that was it. Like, hello, ominous. Well, that freezer, they were able to find it was draped with stuff. And underneath it, there were buckets. And in those buckets were victims body parts. Oh, yeah. Just sitting on a freezer.

Yep. Now, to get to that freezer in the slaughterhouse, it took them a day and a half to clear past to it. Oh, that's just foul. Yep, that's how insane it was in this farm. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days.

It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days.

It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days.

It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like four days. It was like Now when another investigator, Sergeant Tim Sley, opened the freezer, he found a human head. He just opened the freezer and found a human head. I can't imagine the people just like

wretching on the side by the stars. Can you imagine that like this is the worst like living horror film because you just have no idea what you're gonna find every single place anywhere you open, anywhere you look, anything you pick up, you're going to find stuff underneath it. This is literally a body farm. It literally is an actual body farm, right? It's horrific. They also found inside the pig's thigh, where like the pig's slop is, like

everything. They found Brenda Wolf's jawbone, with a tooth still attached with a filling in it. Oh wow. And the other pieces of bones. And I wonder if that's why the pigston eat that specific tooth because I had the filling. Maybe. That's wild. It was like part of her mandible too. Oh wow. Yeah. So like I said, they found no complete remains. Just pieces. There were hair teeth. I mean, pieces of flesh, bone, fingernails, just everything. This is one of the craziest cases I have ever heard of. Real, and what they figured out was that he likely killed his victims.

Then he dismembered them in some way, probably the same way he would slaughter an animal which he was pretty upfront about. And then he hangs the victims on his giant hook to kind of take the pieces he needs, and he feeds the rest of them into a meat grinder. And then he, it's, and then you said like what he couldn't dispose of, he would feed to the pigs.

He would feed what he thought was, you know, unusable. He would feed to the pigs, and then the rest of what he would find unusable, the things the pigs wouldn't eat. Hair, you know, I don't know. Other pieces of bone. Sure. I know hair is something that are not too fond of, so that was definitely part of it.

That's what he would take to the rendering plant. He puts it in the hair. He puts it in the meat with the rendering plant. Yeah. That's where he would, that's what he, because that is what rendering plants take from animals. They take hair, feathers, things that you can't really use in food or anything like that. They render those down to gelatin. Gotcha. Gotcha. So not only is there the possibility

that meat on his farm or possibility, I say, pretty assurance that the meat on his farm was tainted with human remains. But now the rendering plants most definitely unknowingly used the hair in bones he mixed in with his animal parts to probably render down to gelatin and could be in different products like makeup or candy or jello or jello like straight up jello like you're like a lip gloss or something. Wow. Isn't that horrific to think about? That's fucked.

And these victims families this the horror never ends. Like these poor people. They have to sit there and I would be passing, I'd be passing a lollipop and thinking like, I just think how would you ever eat any kind of meat again? You just can't. You just can't ever just let go of your head. Get that out of your head.

And go to sleep. No. You know what I mean? It never becomes something that you could just live with. It's like you're always in it. It's because it just gets more and more horrific as it goes. Because anything you do reminds you of the fact that it just gets worse and worse.

It does. It's horrible. And anthropologists were actually called in and forensic experts, of course, because there were so many bones. And most of the things they were finding were so decayed and rotted and disarticulated that they needed help. And they were trying to get DNA off of these tiny little things. Some of them they couldn't get DNA off of.

Some of them they got DNA, but it was like they couldn't really do much with it. It's just these poor victims and these poor victims of families, I just feel really bad. But luckily in February 22, 2002, Willie was arrested. He was first arrested on two charges of first degree murder and four more after that. He was charged with the whole 26 accounts,

but they really wanted to focus on those six that they knew were really solid. This was super controversial, of course, because there's many more than six, and those families were like, I would like my justice to be served, but from like a judicial ceremony. But they were looking at it like, we know these are rock solid. Why, why are we gonna like risk it, kind of thing? That's what they were thinking. Which I understand why the families were like really, but I also understand.

Yeah, I can totally see both sides. Yeah, exactly. Now in 2004, this is when it was revealed to the public in Canada. See, oh my God. There may have been human remains in the meat sold from the picked in farm. I obviously like they had, just tell them that,

but like I could have gone my whole life if I lived in Canada without knowing that. Yep, and they said, so it's not proven, but it's also not disproven, and a health official said it was entirely possible, but there was. He actually said, quote, it's very disturbing to think about, but there is the possibility of some cross-contamination. But the degree of it, when or how much, we really don't know I think if we could rule it out we would definitely like to But what they did was they put out an official alert to everyone anyone who had purchased meat from the picked and farm

Was asked to come forward if they still had the meat to bring it to them. Yeah, the problem here is people were like Yeah, I bought a pig from them like seven years ago I don't have that pig anymore. Right. Like this does not help me. No, but you know, they did try I don't know if anyone came forward to it with it. There was no update on that But I mean, can you mad like I would imagine the rendering plants maybe didn't want to come forward if they had bought meat from them Well, not know the rendering plants didn't buy meat from them because they don't buy meat. They buy meat.

Oh yeah, but like the people, you know what I mean? These are just civilian people who had bought meat to cook for their families. Oh shit. Like that's what these people were. Maybe they were just like, I don't wanna know. I think most people were like, I don't have the meat anymore. That was probably because it was so long ago.

Yeah, well, I'm not gonna keep meat for that long. And a, that was probably because it was so long ago. Yeah. I'm not going to keep meat for that long. And if, and a lot of people too, like you said, probably were like, yeah, I don't know, I don't want to know that. Yeah. I'm, I'm good. But going to go ahead and get rid of that meat. Yeah, we're going to just get rid of that and just move on with our lives.

So here's the rub for Willie. Here's Willie in his lack of functioning neurons. So he was placed in a jail cell and he was placed in there with one other cell mate. That cell mate was actually an undercover police officer. Love it. That poor man, that had to sit in a fucking cell with Willie picked in. And you know what he killed it, I'll give it to him. He probably stinks so bad.

I know. And he looked like he did. So they were trying to get anything they could just help identify these other victims, you know, see if he said anything. They were hoping his dumbass would brag and just slip to this guy. Yeah. Cause people who knew Willie, like I think I mentioned it in one of the parts, was that he would get kind of overly sherry. And like he would just kind of say something and be like, whoops, remember when he did that to like the kid that was living on the farm and that was like, oh, I should beat the shit out of him.

Oh, I should have him beaten within an inch of his life and have him move. Cause I said too much. Now, even if it's stranger, and of course now he's gonna feel like he doesn't have a lot to lose. So it's just probably gonna do it. Now, in this video, you can see it online.

We'll try to post the link to the YouTube of it because there's like a just one, a YouTube, I can't remember exactly who's it is that has like the entire video. And he's wearing like a white t-shirt and he's just sitting there disgusting and he's eating something like food on like a plate. And the entire time he's talking about this, he's eating this the whole time. And he's like scraping every last bit of this food off this plate. And it's like what they're talking about and him sitting there eating. It's just like foul. That does not compute.

It's just so much. Willie picked in 100. 100% talks with his mouth full. Oh, 100%. I guarantee it. 100%. Okay, so what they discovered through this this little excursion was that picked him thought it was great that he was in the limelight. He loved it. He loved it.

He loved it. Absolutely. Jackass. He considered himself famous. He was totally into the attention. He was very excited to be around what he thought was another criminal because he was like cool. We're like in the same club now. And he wanted to brag. Yeah, like he wanted to talk about it. So he just spilled the entire beans. He started talking all, all about it. He talked about that he, how he had committed each crime, how he had kept all the IDs and all the personal effects of people. He also said, quote, I got a murder charge on me and 48 more, 48 more to come.

Whoopie. Are you kidding? Yep, he said whoopie. And he said he had murdered 49 women and was annoyed because he got arrested before he could hit 50. He actually said this. How do you, I just don't understand. Like how is that your life goal?

And let me give you a couple quotes from it just so you can really get the idea. Oh boy. So when the undercover cop asked him what they had on him, they were like, well, he was like, what, and I love this undercover cop trying to be a criminal because he just says fucking, like in the weirdest places, like he'll be like, well, what do they,

what do they have on you fucking? Like he just puts it like a place, I'm like, I don't even know what a fucking they have on you. Like I feel like Willie should have been like, are you okay sir? Yeah, but like, Willie's company that he kept. But it's just so funny because he just puts fucking,

like I understand like using that word to try to like sound tough. Like you're in that situation because like, what else are you gonna do? Yeah, but he puts it in very strange places. And I think that he's like, he's saying it all the and all that's really funny. He should have took a note out of our book. He should have.

Well, we'll help you. We got you. We got you. But when he asked him what he had on him, Willie just replied, DNA. So already he's like, there's DNA on my farm. Like he's already like, yep, yikes. And the officer said at one point, I find the best way to fucking dispose of something is fucking take it to the ocean and willy said oh, yeah And then he responded oh fuck. Do you know what the fucking ocean does to things?

They're ain't much left. That's what the undercover cop said. Okay. You can see how yeah That's a lot. Well willy responded to something like let me take down from like, that's funny, that cop said that to, oh, this chills my bones. So he said, the cop said, oh, fuck, you know what the fucking ocean does to things. They're ain't much left. Willy responded, I did better than that. Wow. And you, when you watch this video, you're like, because you know what he did. Oh, like, it's just like, I did better than that.

That's I did better than you can do. And it's like, and he did. Mm-hmm. That's what's even sadder is that's the thing. You destroyed these women. That's what makes that. Every single way that you could. That's what makes that chill run through here.

It gave me your bottle. I literally chills. Oh, and so they had the officer respond to him like, what? Huh? What the fuck in did you do? What's in? Oh, and so they had the officer respond to him like, what? What the fucking did you do? What you do? Well, Willie gets up with his like tray, his little plate of

slop, whatever the hell he's eating walks over to the guy and sits super close to him. Oh, no, no, which I was like, I was like, I was not. So this officer's like, what do you mean? What do you mean? And he literally just whispers right into his face, a rendering plant. Oh shit.

And he told him there wasn't much left after that, but he said, unfortunately, I got sloppy at the end. Wow. And that was his thing was he said, I got sloppy. That's why I got caught. Willie, you were born sloppy. I was just going to say, honey, you came out sloppy. You came out the womb straight sloppy. That's why I got caught. And it's like born sloppy. I was just gonna say, honey, you came out sloppy. You came out the womb straight sloppy.

Your soul is sloppy. Like you are stamped with a sloppy stamp. Your aura is literally brown. You're sloppy and not amber. Well, then he said, that's why I got sloppy. I wanted to hit the big 50. That's so funny. Yeah, I just don't't I can't wrap my brain around talking about it like it's a baseball staff Right, that's what's like killing me is like the big 50. That's not the big 50. That's 49 women human lives like that's

Crazy who I had people who love them and care about them and miss them 49 women. And that's the big five of them. And you're talking about it, the big five, oh, I wish I got that. That's so messed up. So then he said, I think most of them, based on the fucking evidence, I think I'm nailed to the cross.

But if that happens, there will be about 15 other people who are gonna go down. Fuck, some will go down the tank. So now he's saying there's about 15 other people that are also going to go down. So now I'm like, yeah, what was happening out here? That's the thing because I definitely, I know Willie obviously carried out a lot of this on his own, but oh, I believe he got the 49. Absolutely. But I think other people were involved. Well, that's, I think there's more remains out there than they're going to

be able to put to just 49 and think of the criminals that The people were but it's like then you think about it and you're like What the fuck was going on at this far like all the stuff we know was going on and then What are we not possibly like there were multiple murderers just torturing and slaughtering women out there like It is like you said in the beginning. It is this stuff straight out of like a Rob Zombie film. Yeah, it's like Rob Zombie would be like, whoa, pull back. On this one, like he'd be like, that's a lot.

Yeah, it's just so much. It's like the Firefly family. Well, then he started, he started, it truly reminds me of House of a Thousand Corpses when like, in the beginning of Devil's Rejects, which I love Rob Zombie films, like that's just who I am as a person. But the Devil's Rejects films,

when they're doing like the news report and they're saying like this many bodies were found in the basement, this many bodies were found in a freezer, pieces of bodies. Like in the beginning of the song. And blah, blah, blah. It's exactly that. Oh man.

It's exactly that. I wonder what he got. I wonder what he got. I know. I know. Maybe he got some kind of, I dare to say inspiration. But I wonder if he looked at this case and was like, whoa, that's the shit out of horror films. I mean, anybody in the right mind would say that.

Rob, are you listening? Sir Zombie? Sir Zombie. Can you please send us a quick note? Just send us a Gmail. Real quick. You all bet. Imagine you please send us a quick note? Just send us a Gmail real quick. You'll be able to imagine if he sent us a quick note. No, Mama would kill a little bit. Yeah, that would go very well.

Rizambi always reminds me of our live show in New York. But either way. So, yeah, so he finished his whole thing saying this whole thought by saying I said they were my friends I thought they were my fucking friends Because then he goes into saying how all his friends started ranting them out. Oh, yeah, Scott chub was like Andy came forward and like a few other people so he was now he's sitting there being like my friend sold me out And it's like did he know what was the woman who he was like sisters with? Was her name Linda? Lisa. Lisa. Yeah. What did he know that she like had any kind of involvement? He didn't mention that, but I'm sure he probably

got word of it. I'm assuming. He said, and this is when he started getting into the I'm famous thing and whoop, whoop, whoop. Yeah. So he said that he wanted to be bigger than those serial killers in the States. And if he had got to 50, he would, he said that he wanted to be bigger than those serial killers in the states. And if he had got to 50, he would, he said he would be bigger than them. Wow. And then he said, which not, which I love, I have to beat the United States. We're like, you don't know. It don't like don't.

No one ever aspires to be like us, especially not Canadians. Don't be that way. No, like don't, definitely not in that way. We just keep it Canadian. We don't want anyone trying to beat those We were not proud of those records don't we know it's not something you want to do and then he turned to him and like because the officer was like Yeah, you're right like you would be like the bigger a few hit 50 and then he turns to him and says his record was like what 42 He says and he doesn't say who and then I like, I wonder if he's talking about Gary Ridgeway because it was around the same time

and it was also very similar. He like, M.O. here, like not in the way he killed women, but like that he was targeting sex workers. And you know, he was trying to find quote unquote, less dead people so he could do as many as possible. So Willie wanted to do the same thing. I imagine he was,

but it's like, he's very wrong with that one, because Gary Ridgway confessed to 71. Yeah. And he, they convicted him of 49, I believe. So they're right on par. Wow. But that was strange that he was like, I want to be like him, because,

do you think Gary Ridgway actually killed 71 people? Um, you know how they get to prison? And they're like, I killed like a million. I feel like that one might be a possibility because he was choosing people that he felt he could hide for a long time. Yeah. And I think in his case, he did find a lot of people who weren't close to their family or didn't have ties or connections. And I think I think there is

like more out there at 71. I don't know. But like could be close. I wouldn't be surprised with him. He's a crazy dude. Goddamn. We'll cover him eventually. He's wild. So there was two, all in all, there was 200,000 DNA samples collected. Wow.

600,000 exhibits from the crime scene. And again, $70 million it cost. Jesus. Yeah. And I think I had mentioned it before that it was the crown who decided that they were only going to go after Willie for like the six counts of murder instead of the entire thing. Yeah, you know that. Because they really felt like those were solid so they didn't want to risk it.

But obviously people were pissed. Now I'm going to because he was only nailed for those six, I want to name all the women. Yeah, it's important here really quick just so you know take your respect to everything We have Serena Abbott's way Mona Lee Wilson Andrea Joe'sbury Brenda and Wolf Marie Lee Frey Georgina Faith Papin Let's see Jacqueline Michelle MacDonald Diane Ros, Diane Rosemary Rock, Heather Kathleen Bottomley, Jennifer Lynn Furminger, Helen May Hallmark, Patricia Rose Johnson, Heather Chinnick, Tanya Holick, Sherry Irving, Inga Monique Hall, Tiffany Drew, Sarah DeVries, Cynthia Phelix, Angela Rebecca Jardine, Diana Melnick. They had a Jane Doe that they did attribute to him, but they since pulled back on that and said that

they don't think it was him. There was also Debra Lynn Jones, Wendy Crawford, Kerry Kosky, Andre Faye-Borhaven, and Kara Louise Ellis, aka Nikki. Gotcha. So that, when you read them out loud like that, it's, like, really? I just counted it on my hands as you were doing it. Like, that's insane. It's, it's a lot when you read that loud. It's just so sad.

And then the thing is like, those are the 26s that you read out loud. Imagine if you read the full 49 out loud. Exactly. That's, it's, those are the ones that they can identify. That's so sad. Those are the bodies that they could identify from pieces.

Well, and then think of the families that most likely know that he did this to their daughter, but they don't have that final piece of like, yes, he did it. They don't get that closure. There were so many family members who said they would wait outside this farm while they were doing the investigation, being like, I just need to know if my daughter, my sister, my, you know, is in my best friend, like my ex, my, my friend, just if someone, they said, I need to

know if they died on this farm. Like that's, they just need to know because it's closure. It's a piece of closure. It's obviously the whole thing,. Yeah, and it's awful closure, but it's something. Right. In one of these victims, Sarah DeVries, we actually, when I read about her, and I mentioned that she was a poet, when I read one of her journal entries about her talking about how she was scared to become one of these missing women, I was saying how like, she's just very well spoken and she sounded like she had such like a creative like articulate mind. Well, one of our listeners who I'm not going to say the name because they didn't explicitly tell me I could, they told me that they knew, they didn't

know Sarah, but they have some kind of connection to Sarah. Okay. And they said that they just appreciated you know the victim's names being out there and talking about them. And they said that they just appreciated, you know, the victim's names being out there and talking about them. And they also wanted to say, anyways, this is all to say that I want to introduce you to Sarah DeVries. Sarah was a daughter, sister, mother, niece, cousin, friend, roller skater, protector, sex worker, and poet. She also vanished from Vancouver's downtown east side in the 90s, and her DNA was later found on the Picton Farm. Her sister Maggie DeVries wrote a book about Sarah's life and disappearance. And the missing and murdered women of Vancouver, she included several poems of Sarah's throughout the book, including one that I'll share with you because it's a reminder

that the 49 women who died on that farm were not just another death. And here's the poem that Sarah de Ries wrote. Women's body found beaten beyond recognition. You sip your coffee, taking a drag of your smoke, turning the page, taking a bite of your toast, just another day, just another death. Just one more thing you so easily forget. You and your soft sheltered life just go on and on. For nobody special from your world is gone. Just another day, just another death, just another hasting street whore. Sentenced a death. The judge's gavill already fallen. Sentence already passed. But you, you just sift your coffee, washing down your toast. She was a broken down angel, a child lost with no place, a human being in disguise. She touched my life, she was somebody, she was no

whore, she was somebody special, who just lost her way. She was somebody fighting for her life, trying to survive, a lonely lost child who died in the night all alone, scared, gasping for air. That like made me choke up, like thinking, like my body was like vibrating that entire time. That, like, it's so, the two things that you've read so far, it's all, like obviously she wasn't aware of what was gonna happen to her, but it's just so crazy, her style of writing,

she was very intuitive. To the world around her. Yes, yeah. Like when you read her writings, you're like, wow. And it's just so haunting that that's how she went. Yeah, like I feel like it's just, she had, like I don't know, she had a connection somewhere. I remember once we had an assembly at school

and I've always remembered this. I don't remember exactly the girl's name, but she, I believe she died in a school shooting. And she had written that she knew that she was gonna die young and she was like a really good poet and stuff And she always wrote about the fact that she knew she was gonna die before she was supposed to and that's just like really reminiscent Yeah, it does remind me like she obviously Sarah wasn't writing that she was going to die, but she was writing she was afraid about it Exactly, so I just want to thank you for sending that, because wow, it really touched me.

And it was just an awesome thing to be able to read, to say like she's a cousin, she was a roller skater, a protector, like she's not less than this. She was more than this, you know? So thank you for that. That was awesome. Always welcome. I was really touching.

So in a press conference, the deputy chief constable Doug LaParde from the Vancouver Police Department said about this case, quote, I wish from the bottom of my heart that we would have caught him sooner. I wish that the several agencies involved that we could have done better in so many ways. I wish that all the mistakes that were made we could undo. And I wish more lives would have been saved. So on my behalf and behalf of the Vancouver Police Department and all the men and women who worked on the investigation, I would say to the family, so sorry we are for your losses

because we did not catch the monster sooner. Wow. Which, yeah. But it's like, they didn't want to invest in. You didn't listen. Like, no, everybody was calling and saying stuff and everybody knew that something was about. It's like, that's nice, nice words.

But it's like, you guys acted way too late. Too little too late. And according to a lot of our listeners in Canada, they're still not acting on these, especially indigenous women and women working as sex workers and women who are marginalized society. Like wake up. Yeah, it's crazy to me.

Like this should have taught you. The thing that bothers me too is that I feel like sex work is becoming more and more mainstream now. Yeah. Like look at only fans. I've watched an entire documentary about it. So that is, that's also sex work.

If somebody went missing and they had an only fans page, are they not gonna investigate that? Like, are they less dead? Or is it just, it's so, it's weird. Right, it's just weird. It's a person. Right, no matter what. Like sex worker, hairdresser, autopsy technician,

fucking, I can't think of another job, but you know what I mean? No other jobs and the worst. That's all there is. But like, we're at a grocery store, a fucking dog rumor. We're all humans. Exactly. You know, it's just crazy.

I don't get it. It really is. Well, in January 2006, there was the trial began. Yeah. He pled not guilty to 27 charges because they removed the Jane Doe charge. Why did he? Why? In August, those charges were then that was when it was split to the 6 and 20, because,

of course. So a year later, he faced the trial for the 6. The jury came back, not guilty on first degree murder, and actually guilty on second degree murder, which does not make sense to me in the least. Why? Don't know, but people were very upset about it. Canada, what the fuck is up? Well, it. Canada, what the fuck is up? Well, Canada was like, what the fuck is up?

I think that's Canada was like, huh? It was, I have no idea. I don't know. I couldn't find anything that justified it. So, that's strange. Initially, there is like a happy twist to this though. Initially, he was up for parole in like 10 years, 10, 15 years. He was going to be able to have parole.

What? Because that was the, for second degree murder. Yeah. That's a traditional one. But after reading, I think it was 18 victim impact statements. The judge decided that he changed it to life without the possibility of parole until 25 years, which is the max he could give for second degree murder. Yeah.

And it's actually, I think it's actually what they give for first-degree murder. I believe I read that somewhere. So he really changed it to be like, no. Yeah, that's ridiculous. And he's not gonna get pearls. It's not gonna be a long haul. And it's like he will very likely die in prison.

In October, 2010, just to update on a different part, there was a lot of pressure from the community, especially in Vancouver, and it was on the Canadian government to open an inquiry into the disappearances of these women, dismissing women and girls, and how it wasn't handled well by law enforcement and how this could have been so much less than what it was if they had just acted when they should have. And it concluded this inquiry that this investigation was grossly mishandled, and that they did not do their best to solve these cases, and that they

haven't done their best to solve all the other missing women in girls' cases. So they did start putting a little bit of changes into effect. But on December 8, 2015, Canada launched a national public inquiry into the insanely disperportion at amount of Indigenous women who go missing in Murdered E.C.A. and Canada. And in 2014, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police actually stated that there were 1200 missing in Murdered Indigenous women between 1980 and 2012.

1200? Oh yeah, but indigenous women's groups? They documented it at somewhere around 4000. How you not realize that 4000 people in your community are dead? Well, a lot of it is because of under-reporting, because you saw, there were a few instances in part two where Willie, you know, somebody got away from him and they were like, I didn't report it because they wouldn't care, right?

So there was this tons of that and then it's also just unreported anyways by the police as well. And the police didn't look into them a lot or didn't create any kind of database for it. There was just nothing done. There was no organization done to try to fix this, like plague that's happening. That whole place needs a revamp. And I found a crazy stat from Canada actually, the homicide rate between 1997 and 2000.

It was seven times higher for non for indigenous women Over non-indigenous women. Wow. So that's just a like a crazy set at yeah And the national increased final report was completed in 2019 They said that they it was I think I actually found yes the website It's for the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. It's www.mmiwg. And what it said in the first page, you'll see of the website when you go find like the final report they've posted it on there. What they wrote on their website was the National Inquiries Final Report reveals that persistent

and deliberate human and indigenous rights violations and abuses are the root cause behind Canada's staggering rates of violence against indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBT, QQIA people. The two volume report calls for transformative legal and social changes to resolve the crisis that has devastated indigenous communities across the country. And then it says the final report is comprised of the truths of more than 2,380 family members, survivors of violence, experts and knowledge keepers shared over two years of cross-country public hearings and evidence gathering.

It delivers 231 individual calls for justice directed at governments, institutions, social service providers, industries, and all Canadians. As documented in the final report, testimony from family members and survivors of violence spoke about the surrounding context, marked by multiigenerational and intergenerational trauma, and marginalization in the form of poverty, insecure housing, or homelessness, and barriers to education, employment, healthcare, and cultural support. Experts and knowledge keepers spoke to specific colonial and patriarchal policies that displaced women from their traditional roles, communities and governance and diminished,

sorry, diminished their status in society, leaving them vulnerable to violence. Oh, yeah. So what they're saying is the final report was like, what the fuck? Yeah. The cliff notes on that are, Duffuck.

What are you doing about it? It's like insane. So what are they doing about it? Well, unfortunately, I guess this is a very ongoing thing. I'm hoping I mean, since 2000, it's been 21 fucking years. I honestly urge everyone to go if you, especially if you want to look into this particular thing that's going on, go to www.mmiwg-f-a-d-a.ca. And that's gonna take you to that website.

It's missing murdered, missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. And it tells you everything. It tells you all the events that are going on places you can donate. All the updates are on there. I think our next big show, we know we're donating. Yeah, it's insane.

It really is. And I had shared on my Twitter the other night, a Etsy shop from a listeners friend. You did, yeah. Yeah, and it's an indigenous run shop and she does have like a red dress pin and sticker that if you bought that, she donates 50% to the missing and murdered

indigenous women and girls. Like, so I think anything you can do like that, anything we can find, she definitely shared out, get people listening to it. Yes. Now, unfortunately, on August 4, 2010, Crown prosecutors stayed the balance of pending murder charges against Willie Picton. So that means that there's no first of a future trials for any of

the other missing women. Why? Don't know. I'm a little mad at the crown, so that's a little mad at the crown. I'm not going to lie. The Netflix show, it really bummed me up. I've never watched that. I haven't either.

I kind of wanted to though. But yeah, so I mean, he's in jail. He's not going anywhere. He's just living his life disgustingly. I didn't find any updates on him, but I don't want him to go through another trial because I'm sure he like derives some kind of pleasure from not reliving, like, relives it somehow,

but I want the families of the women. Yeah, it's really a catch-20. To get their chance to relieve. It's really their victim-impact statements. And I know that's the thing. You know, that's the thing because those really made a difference in the first trial, obviously. And I know that's the thing. You know, that's the thing. Cause those really made a difference in the first trial obviously.

And it makes a difference when you get to see somebody put away for your daughters. For your daughter. Exactly. For your family members, not just, you know, figuratively, you know, not just like a symbolic gesture. But there's not even any fucking symbolic gestures here. Yeah, it's just like nothing.

Well, because they're being like, he's in prison. So like for all of it. And it's like, no, that's not even any fucking symbolic gestures here. Yeah, it's just nothing. Well, because they're being like, he's in prison, so like for all of it. And it's like, no, that's not enough. That's just a blanket over everything. Right. And again, I want them to find more. I want them to be able to identify more of these remains. It's killing me.

I feel like if they went back, they would still find stuff to this dead. They definitely would. And the ones they already have that they haven't been able to identify. That kills me. Well, now, especially, I mean, we saw the fucking Golden State Killer. Come on. I mean it's a possibility this thing will go on forever.

The familial DNA hopefully will help. Let's hope fingers crossed. So that's Willie picked in. That was a huge bummer. He's he's a lot. Mm-hmm. And he's terrible. And his family's terrible and his farm is terrible. He's terrible. But he's in prison and Canada, I'm really glad he's in prison. And to all our Canadian listeners who reached out and like gave us tips and tidbits and stories and I've read every single email that like came in about this

like that from every single person that was like, oh, let me just tell you my quick little thing or let me help you with this farm thing and all that. So like, if this was a team effort, just know that like you guys really helped like put this together. So you guys were awesome with that. And they were so cool.

So thank you so much. And I'm glad to be out of Willie Picton's worlds. And I need to get out of it. So ready to get out of it. But you know, next episode we're gonna get into somehow it and but you know, next episode, we're gonna get into somehow it and even more fucked up. Yeah, we're gonna drag you right back down, but for like a couple days, we're out of it.

Yeah, just like, you know, what, till Saturday? Yeah, into our Patreons, we have something fun that we're gonna be giving you in the next like March 1st. March 1st, right? So Monday. So Monday? No, Sunday, I believe. I don't know, Sunday. It's Sunday. You're getting it. So Monday? No, Sunday. I believe. I don't know.

Sunday. It's so different. You're getting it. One of those days. We've been working on like a fun, different surprise. It's just a fun little thing, man. We want to do this. Just a little. Don't get too excited.

It's just tiny, okay. Okay. Yeah, but we were really, it was like something fun. So we're excited about it. But, yeah. So thanks everybody. Yeah, thanks. I love you. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram. At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. At A Morbid Podcast. I don't know who's there right now, thanks. I love you. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram at morbid podcast. Hit us up on Twitter at a morbid podcast

I don't know who's there right now, but I just Both of us are on Twitter breaks. I'm just taking a hiatus from social media. It's just like depressing You know what the world is depressing to look at right now retweet I'm gonna retweet you IRL. There you go. Oh god. I hate myself and then So does a gmail because guys, seriously, whenever you send us Gmail's about our case, Gmail's about our cases, it's like we do read every single one of them.

Yeah, I got so much more information, thanks to our listeners from that. So that's a great thing. So thanks for all those great things. And that's all. So we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're, but not so worth it that you're Canada and the crown.

Well, Canada's awesome. Oh, no, no, Canada's great. I'm not somewhere that you're Canada's crown. I'm not at the crown. That is the crown. It's at the fucking crown, man. But Canada, yeah, we freaking love Canada. I'm so excited to go to Canada.

Hi, Johnny and Tyler. I was gonna say that spook. Okay, more shape. Bye. Go to Canada. Hi Johnny and Tyler. I was gonna say that spook! Spooky bullshit! Bye! Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill?

I'm Candice DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, aka Mommy Doomstays Motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder.

I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today.